The Ringer NBA Show - Say One Nice Thing: The West’s Bottom Five | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 20, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos say goodbye to the worst teams in the Western Conference by saying one nice thing about the Rockets (4:05), Jazz (21:05), Grizzlies (33:45), Trail Blazers (45:45), and Spurs (1:02:10). They also answer one essential question for each team. Send us your questions to [e-mail]! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In a world where coaches are still the main characters, the players are now legally chasing the ultimate bag, and the game of basketball is always the top priority. There was only one brand you can trust to help you wade through all the madness. Hey, I'm Tate Frazier from One Shiny Podcast, and you can join me twice a week as we navigate the always entertaining world of college basketball. Every Monday, the ringer's comment helps me make sense of the biggest stories from the weekend, and on Fridays we talk to our many friends of the program. We're locked in on the best postseason in sports. Make sure you follow One Shining Podcasts on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And welcome to group chat.

I am Justin Barrier and joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was. We're back on that 10 a.m. recording schedule. Let's go. You are the saddest adult human being that I know. Do you feel that electricity? There ain't no air mattress sleeping for this podcast, man. Oh my goodness.

Oh, my goodness. You got a good mattress, plus Yukon is the number one seed in both tournaments, if I'm not mistaken. And so, yeah, I bet Justin is in a great mood all around. Not working this weekend with you bums? Like, things are looking up for me. Well, some relevant news on that, friend. Was and I have gotten together. We've decided in your absence, we're throwing a party.

We're throwing a mailbag party. And so we need all of the listeners to get their emails in, get their comments. and ringer group chat at gmail.com. If you want to just talk badly about Justin or talk a lot about the nuggets while he's gone, we encourage it, honestly. Couldn't even come up with one topic, huh? Farmed it out to the listeners.

We're all about the wisdom of the crowd, Justin, you know? We're men of the people, unlike you. I've been getting a lot of engagement from certain fan bases the past week or so. between some of our future pod ranking stuff and my worst contracts with Bill. So I'm sure we'll have plenty of feedback from the greater Ringer NBA community.

And I look forward to it, to engaging with our audience. I look forward to that as well as just the listener. I was actually, I was a little bummed because when I saw that LeBron started talking about America's play over a table of wine, I was like,

damn, it scuttled your guys' great idea for the Sunday pod. That really is our general vibe. You know, a couple of glasses. I mean, I'm going to be honest. For a podcast, I'm more of a white wine guy, but I understand it. No, white wine. No?

Not out. No, I can't do white wine. No. You're pro? You're like a little chilled? I just feel like that's a good podcast vibe, you know? Hmm. Interesting.

Okay. I think the pairing works is my comment. Dry rosé on a Sunday afternoon. I don't understand how Justin's. chilled. Oh, Justin's crazy. Come on. I don't mind a rosé, but a white. I'm not a Zinfandel guy, you know? I like that deep flavor. That's me.

It's a straight barefoot for you. There are different whites than Zinn, but yes, continue. On today's show, we are going to do, we're going to pay tribute to the bottom five in the Western Conference. We're going to do one this week. And then I think next week when I get back, uh, we're going to go through. each of the five teams that presumably aren't going to make the play in or the playoffs. And we're going to say one nice thing about all five of them. And then I also tacked on an offseason look ahead question for each of them, kind of similar to what we did in the preseason power rankings,

just trying to set the table for what's ahead in the off season for some of these teams. But we should start with the Houston Rockets who are first on this list, who I think the one nice thing we have to say about them is they might not be deserving of being on this. list and being on this show because they have one now six in a row. They're two and a half games back of the Warriors for a play in spot without Elper and Schengun in there. Rob, are you a believer in what the Rockets are doing right now? I think it's all relative. And some of it we're going to get into, I know. If we're going to say nice things about the Rockets, we have to say nice things about Jalen Green. He's been sensational lately, not just these games without Shangoon,

but really going back the last three or four weeks has played his best basketball. If not, I mean, certainly of the season and maybe of his entire career. So that I want to believe in. There's a lot of things about the rockets I want to believe in. Do I think they're actually going to catch the warriors? Probably not. But Golden State's certainly given them a hand here, you have to say. Yeah, I think we thought we were locked in and entrenched of our top 10 in the West.

And, you know, it's not just Golden State. The Lakers having exactly, you know, hit the afterburners here on this playing ranking. And so, yeah, they still have something to play for. They got a lot of young guys who haven't experienced much winning, if at all, in the NBA. So it's nice to see them still in the fight. It's nice to see them still honoring the legacy and the true nature of Phase 2. So, you know, they deserve to get some love. What is the true nature of Phase 2?

Well, that's the question. Not being the Wizards. Yes. I think. It's like we're not some bottom. defeating pencil in a W type of team, right? Even the Spurs, like, with the crazy stuff that Wembe's been doing lately last night, notwithstanding against the Dallas Mavericks,

at least they have that thing going, this like really cool generational talent that we're monitoring his development, you know, teams like Portland, teams like the Wizards, teams like Charlotte, you know, Memphis, if you catch him on the right night, it's just like penciled that in. The Rockets haven't reached that Nadir. And I think that's something to be applauded. I know that's like damning with faint praise, but like it's nice because it's something they actually set out to do this year.

Well, if I can jump the line here in saying nice things about the Rockets, the reason they are here, the reason we're having this conversation met them even making the play in is because of their defense. The fifth best defense in the league. They obviously have Alper and Shangoon who's been awesome this season. But when I think about their defense, I think we tend to key in on the veteran guys.

We talk about Dylan Brooks. We talk about Fred Van Vleet. We talk about Ime Udocha and the performance. professionalization of what they're doing. But I find myself thinking a lot about Jabari Smith, Jr., who's been the real deal defensively this season in a way that I think changes the complexion of what they are. Like, he's not a defensive anchor type, although with Shangun out, he's playing

more five, he's being pushed into that role a little more. But to me, he looks like a great utility defender at the four. Switches really well, keeps his hands high, really challenges people. And the way he moves, I think is a really good omen for a big. Like he has a mobility and a capacity to shuffle and hang with guys and recover and get back into plays that to me is really impressive. And if you're thinking about the future of what the rockets are and can be, a lot of it starts with this sort of phase two defense that they put together. And I think Jabari's been a big part of it. Yeah.

So what do you think about the lineup they've been trotting out these days? So post-Shangoon injury. And we should say one of the nice things to say about them is Shangoon looked like he could have been out for a while. It looks like it might just be an end of season sort of thing. That's a very nice thing for all of us, in particular the Rockets. But now they're going a little bit more small ball. It's Fred Van Vlee. It's Jalen Green.

It's Amin Thompson, Dylan Brooks, Jabari Smith. Do you think that's changed any of the calculus with like his defense or his play of late? Well, I think for one thing, factoring on Amman Thompson is basically another big. Makes sense for a lot of reasons. And it's part of the difficulty in figuring out what his role is long term. What can the spacing be with a player like Amman in there? Because with this version, the small ball, well-spaced, like, free-range version of what the Rockets can be, we see Amman Thompson's athleticism in full display. Like, he's had some amazing play, some amazing dunks with all this space to work with.

I love that for this version of the Rockets. I do wonder how he fits into things. And a lot of it's going to depend on his individual development and who he is, both as a lead ball handler and whether he's going to be able to ever hit, like, pull-up jumpers at a reliable rate. but also as an off-ball cutter. If his fate is going to be more of a two-three type or a combo or some hybrid positional player, he's going to have to figure out an off-ball destiny that goes beyond just hitting corner jumpers. It's funny because under a different regime and obviously a completely different cast of players, the rocket sort of pioneered playing this four-out style with a guard at de facto center on offense when they had Westbrook.

and they basically traded all of their big man depth to, you know, fully optimize what he actually still did well on the court. So doing a version of that with Amman Thompson, you know, makes sense, obviously. And I think it just, it just simplifies the roles. That's the thing about spacing, man. It makes all of your reads and all of your decision making a lot more clarified because the paint is less muddy. So you don't have to be as crows. crafty and dodging guys and getting around and creative finishing or, you know, just outright being a great floater or a mid-range shooter. It clarifies your decision-making in such a way for a rookie who's limited in the specific ways that he is. Obviously, that's a smart thing for

E. Nia Doka and his staff to be doing. You wanted to see what Asar Thompson looked like in space. This is what it is. And like the comp is an easy one, but it is so crazy what sort of predi-natural just feel and just a nose for the ball that both of these guys have, it's just like the way they're just able to rack up rebounds just by kind of heat-sinking, missling it from the perimeter is kind of unreal. And while a man isn't handling the ball, that was supposed to be the distinction between him and Asar. Sar, Sar was supposed to be the conclusion of the play. A men was the one driving the action. You could definitely see like this is a skilled good basketball player that you just want on your team. How you use it is going to be complicated if he isn't holding the ball. But

clearly he has value on this team. Definitely so. It's so weird with brothers who grow up playing together, you do get those complementary skill sets a lot of times. Like one will lean offense and one will lean defense. One will have the ball. One will know how to play without it. And there's some of that with the Thompson's,

but there's also like that pack of piranhas, like feasting on every loose ball, every transition opportunity. Like they know how to play alongside players like them. And so that's one thing I'm really excited to see with Amen's career and how it how it develops from this point is as the rockets get even more athletic,

even more ferocious, as you put guys, you know, like Tari Isan is a great example of the kind of player who I men could play off of on this team really effectively over time. Like that kind of energy, that kind of chaos, it feeds into itself. Was, did you have something nice you want to say about the rockets? Um, but I just think, I said what I had to say. They're playing hard still, even when it seemed like they were out of a plan.

And again, like it's easy to sort of scoff at the, idea that you would be busting your hump to get the 10 seed in the West and earn a right to potentially maybe hopefully become cannon fodder for whoever ends up being number one out there, you know, most likely the nuggets or whatever. Like, it's easy to scoff at that, but I respect the competitive nature of this group, their professionalism. And I think you got to give credit to the coach for instilling that type of mentality. and focus where they're clearly their best player goes out.

And there's still no quitting that team. Now, look, it's nice when you get to play the Wizards twice and you throw the freaking spurs in there. You know, it's nice when that can happen. But I tip my cat to, you know, this highly competitive nature. Because I think that's something you need to see from a young team. You need to see a team that's willing to go out there, not give a damn about looking cool, sticking their nose in there,

and playing their asses all. Yeah. So should we talk about Jalen Green now? Let's play that. The essential question I have is should Jalen Green be part of phase two of the rockets, which looks a little silly now that Green is on the heater that he's on. But I think it is kind of the essential question of like how this team goes from and also ran to taking the level.

Because what they did in the off season, I think very clearly raised their floor. They are, as Was was alluding to, the champagne of beer of, of this tier of teams. They are clearly at the top, even if you include the Eastern Conference teams, they're cut above those. But how do you get to the next level? Well, it would be Janlon Green stepping up, clearly has done that of late in March, 27 points per game, 50% from the floor, 40% from three, that's huge because he hasn't really been shooting it all that well, each of the three seasons he's been in the league, but West player of the week. Rob, is this kind of what you were hoping to see from Green all along?

Yeah, I think it's what the Rockets we're hoping to see. This is the vision of who he can be. And that's a really exciting thing. Some of it is just the jumper hitting. And that's the part that makes me a little wary because he is a streak shooter. He is a guy who is most comfortable with the ball in his hands. That's the natural rhythm of his game is operating off the dribble, creating for himself. If he can do those things at a really high level, it explodes Houston's potential.

And that's where I get hung up, you know, around the trade deadline, for example, there was all this discussion about Jalen Green and picks for McHale Bridges, for example. Like is that a package that could make sense for both parties? I'm as, look, I fall into the trap of a clean fit as much as anybody. And McHale Bridges would be a super clean fit with the way Houston plays. But what you want out of your second and third guys is someone who can pop off, is someone who can transcend their role in a difficult series. And I love McHale Bridges, but Jalen Green has.

the profile of that kind of player. He also has a much lower floor and is much less consistent and is a much worse defender. And so it depends on what you're prioritizing and for where the rockets are right now. Honestly, they have complimentary guys. They have the Fred Van Vleets.

They have the Dylan Brooks's. I would want to maintain the potential and the flexibility and the pop of someone like Jalen Green versus banking it on a more reliable and better fitting player, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think the knock on Jalen Green has been a sort of lack of feel,

a general, just terrible shot diet, and a lot of it. Although this year it has calmed down way more so than the first two years, but it was still, you know, if you look at his shooting splits, it wasn't exactly like a picture of, you know, efficiency. And I think it's funny because I think the type of

the mode of player that you would compare him to is Anthony Edwards. It's explosive, high usage shooting guard who is going to have the ball in his hand and be expected to create against any set defense, right?

And honestly, I looked up in Edwards' year three splits where he's at a 29.9 usage and 564 true shooting. And Jalen Green is at 27 usage and 538. Like, it's worse.

But you can make the argument that it's in the neighborhood. I don't think anybody would say last year's version of Ann Edwards was close, like, these guys were close in as far as how good they were, as far as how much defenses respect them on a night-to-night basis. But I think if you're the Rockets, you're just hoping that his trajectory, you know, is going to be continued to be high usage. And if he could just take his his efficiency closer to that 58-59 range of true shooting and not be, you know, playing around, messing around with Jordan Pool territory, you know, and the 51s. That's the hope there, you know.

Can I give you a stat? Because I look this up. So since 2000, so 99, 2000, there's only been two players who have shot over their first three seasons in the NBA below 43% field goal percent. percentage and also 14 field goal attempts from the floor. So high usage, very low field goal percentage. One is Jaylen Green. Since 2000. One is Jamlin Green.

Do you guys have any guesses on the other one? Is the other one? I was going to ask if it was another Houston Rocket. So first three seasons. Oh, in the first three seasons. That sounds like C. Francis's music to me. No, it is Brandon Jennings. Oh, yeah.

That tracks too. I got to be honest, like there are some comps there. I think Green, his shooting is farther along there and he's a little bit more electric getting to the basket. But like,

if Brandon Jennings was just in 2024, I wonder if he would have been pretty similar type there. The other thing with Jalen Green too is just like, doesn't really get a lot of other people involved. And obviously that's part of why they brought in Fredman and Vleet there.

But if you look up his like his usage plus his assist rate, it's more like a big man creator, like a big man score, like Dirk Novitsky type, rather than what he is, which is a guy who you want driving a lot of the action of your offense. And so on the one hand, it's great to see him do what he's doing now. He's absolutely electric.

Like the way he was just like hanging in midair to wait out a defender against the Wizards last night was unbelievable. He just does stuff that you can't teach. On the other hand, just like the results aren't there. And if you're going to be a scorer, you got to score efficiently. Well, in terms of the efficiency, he is getting better as a finisher.

And that's promising, right? getting to the basket on a consistent basis and for someone who is as athletic as he is, actually converting those opportunities when they come is huge. If he can continue to like tick up in that regard and get to the basket a little bit more, and this

is the big one, hit spot up jumpers. He's just one of those guys who has to take dribbles to get into his rhythm. And some guys like that over time, over the long arc of their careers, find that and can get to a pretty solid rate converting shots from the

corner, shots from the wing, shots in the slot. If he could just get there, I think he could be a really impressive offensive player and the kind that they need off of someone like Shangoon, who's able to make something out of nothing, who's able to burst into space and fit in around the rest of what they do.

All right, let's move on to the Utah Jazz. we're next up on our list. So we all agree he's supposed to be part of phase. You should still be part of phase two next year, right? I do. Justin's not so cool. I kind of feel like you're going to hear me say this a lot in this podcast. I feel like that college basketball reporter who always says this is

March. Like I do wonder if there's a little bit to that to Green's explosion. Yeah. I see it with career. Like I was saying, like he's just such a super athlete and just so dynamic with the ball. Like if he did get to that level, I wouldn't be surprised. So I don't want to count him out. I'm more dubious at this point because three years of this poor shooting. Like you tried him without Schengun you tried him with Shangoon. You have a helper with them with Fred Van Viet now. I mean, I do wonder if there is a question to be had. I don't know if we're at that point now.

Like, is Shengun, like, prioritizing Shangoon, like, helping or hurting Green? So I don't know. I'm more mixed at this point. Where are you, Waz? No, I don't think prioritizing Shangoon can hurt this kid because Shangoon actually knows how to play basketball. This is a positive podcast.

I'm saying nice things. sense of understanding where to go, where to be, how to help Jalen Green get open, how to hit him in the freaking pocket when he needs the right pass. Like, Schengen can only help this dude's development. I'll say that. Like being a player that allows your team to even be in competitive games in the first place, right, so that this guy's learning in an environment of competitive basketball basketball. basketball. Like, this stuff matters a great deal to me.

I think Rob had the right approach there. If they want to be anything more than a mid-tier team, like, green is the accelerant for that. And so, having said that. The talent is too tantalizing. They have to pay them this offseason, too. And it's the type of contract. Like, if you get that wrong, that's also, we'll set you back away. If we start talking that max rookie extension, ooh, that'd be tough. All right. Jazz, next on our list. Rob, do you want to go first with one nice thing about them?

Yeah, I think they've really got something in Taylor Hendricks, and this has been more of a recent development. We've seen seasons within seasons for the jazz, right? Stretches where Larry Markinen was the talk of the town. We were trying to figure out this new smaller lineup that they had for a while. Colin Sexton has had some really nice moments this season of late, and especially since the trade deadline, and they kind of cleared out their roster a little bit,

Taylor Hendrix has been getting his first consistent burn of the season, and I really like what he's put out there. As a big who is rangy, another guy for his size who can move his feet really well, can actually guard wings, like seeing him get on-ball reps against Anthony Edwards and hold his own and close space and actually contest really well.

I think he has a long way to go in terms of getting the feel down and the specifics of NBA basketball down. But he's a hard guy to lose when he's guarding on the ball. And you can already see him learning to position himself to anticipate screens, you know, and even when he does get screened, fighting his way back, flying at you. And when you have a guy who keeps coming and keeps coming and keeps coming with that kind of length, that's an impact defender already. And that that guy is already hitting threes pretty comfortably. And it looks like a really comfortable shot from there.

There's nothing laborious about his release at all. That's a player. That's a player I'm watching. And I don't know what his timeline is relative to the Jazz's time. timeline, but there's something here and there's enough sparks and there's enough flashes that I'm really interested in Taylor Hendricks's future. I love a statement by Rob there with a guy that keeps coming and coming and coming and coming. All right.

All right. It's 10 a.m. You're right at 10 a.m. For me, for me, it's what I like the most about the jazz is obviously I love Lowry. with Laurie, I still can't figure out how to say the guy's name. I like that Will Hardy is not just a really good coach, but his creativity and his willingness to use different guys in different ways for me is important for this type of team

in the sense that when they do bring in talent, even if it's young, he's going to find a way to make them useful. And we've said this a trillion times. Again, I love Steve Kerr, but Kaminga had the bully this guy in the press to get some run. That's not going to happen with any talent that Utah brings in in the future so long as Bill Hardy is there. He's going to find a role that is most suited to these guys' talent. And so to me, that's what I would be most excited about for the jazz. Do I think they have the guy right now who is going to, you know, carry them into the

promised land of conference finals and division championships and all of those kinds of things and finals appearances. I don't think that guys on the roster yet, but I do know when they do bring guys in, man, it seems like they got a program to unlock dudes that I think jazz fans should be really excited about. That's a great way to put it as a program and one not just for young players, but for guys like Chris Dunn, who's come in and like resuscitated his career playing for this team too. Yeah, this was the advantage of the jazz taking a step. back at the trade deadline, getting guys like Hendricks in there, getting George more reps on there, getting Kessler, some like an easier path to playing time. I watch them sometimes,

and I think this team could easily be in the play-in mix if they wanted to, almost as if they just hit a button and decided to lean more in that direction, especially if like some of their older guys were playing more often. I think they could have been in that sort of Rockets range. But you're seeing guys like Hendricks starting to figure things out in the flying thing that I had on my list, was just that Keante George is a bucket. And the hymn and Sexton backcourt is super interesting to me because on a broad sense, like they seem almost duplicative. They almost seem like shades of the same type of player and you can throw in Jordan Clarkson

alongside them. But there's just some synchronicity between the two of them in particular, George and Sexton, where I wonder if like you can get away with those guys being your backcourt, maybe not in the future, but for the least the next couple years because like George is just very crafty, but Sexton just has an understanding of certain things in a way that George does not. But Sexton in his own right is taking a leap, as we've talked about in past episodes, under Will Hardy, he seems to really have found his kind of groove there. And so it's on the one hand, I'm like, well, a bunch of scoring guards together,

how do you make sense of this? But Rob, they kind of are making sense of this. And so I have to start wondering if those two guys might be part of the long-term vision in addition to Lowry and maybe Hendricks. It definitely could be. It just depends on the shape of the team. Like if they had a real playmaking three, then you can have scoring guards and you can have Lowry at the four

and you can go a lot of different directions at the five, whether it's Kessler or otherwise, you just need playmaking somewhere. And Kante George is, he's accelerating as a playmaker. He's more methodical than some of these other scoring guards we're talking about. But the comp I've been operating with for him is, what if Jordan Poole were good? And maybe that's just like they have a bounce to their movement that's similar.

but there's a burst to him and an instinct in terms of how he scores that reminds me a little bit of Jordan Poole a little more driving oriented sometimes and a little less like step back pull up you know, shacked in a fool type blooper reel shots. Yeah.

But as far as... With a conscious. Jordan Poole with a conscious. Jordan Poole with a conscience. Maybe that's the way to put it. But I think he could be a different kind of playmaker than Jordan Poole could be. And that's exciting too.

So if he can just continue to grow as a passer and you get some playmaking help at the two or the three, I think there's a lot of different versions of this team that could be really interesting and really competitive with George as a key part of it. Who, in addition to marketing, because I think this is the big question with the jazz, who would we consider core for this team?

Like, does it end at marketing? Are we willing to throw in George? Are we willing to throw in Hendricks? Is there anybody else that's like, oh, that guy, I need to have that guy in my future? Yeah, I think Keonté, George, because he's a guy who, like Rob just mentioned, who can actually, he seems pretty explosive

and dynamic with the ball in his hands. You need those players in today's league. I think he's definitely one of those guys. You know, I'll take Rob's word for the Hendrix kid. Where I walk into a like, I'm not sure is Walker Kessler. Yeah. where it's felt like it's like, all right, man, this is just a one-dimensional bordering on big stiff territory here, right?

Where, yes, obviously he's a great interior defender. He can rebound the rock, but you ain't really getting anything else out of this dude. And so you wonder if they'll be long for him and be like, yo, let's pay this guy, say $18 million a year to be our locked in Pennsylvania starter. I don't know. You know what I mean? I don't think he's that kind of guy. And so Walker Kessler, to me, is where the limit comes.

A lot of these other guys, like Chris Dunn, great story. He's 30 years old, guys. You know, it's nice that he's one of the best defensive guards in the league, but he's 30. You know, Jordan Clarkson, 31. We know who these guys are. They're not going to be anything different. And so, yeah, Kiante George, and I think the level of playing time that they've invested in him recently shows you where the minds of the powers that be is at.

It's like, no, this guy is part of the future. He needs to get his reps in. Yeah. Keante George feels like an easy inclusion in this group just because the ceiling is pretty high for him. And even if he averages out at like the median of what he could be, that's a really good player. And the kind of player who could pencil in as a sixth man or at the two, depending on what

your lineup looks like, he just makes sense for a lot of different versions of the jazz. I agree, Castler is tricky. he's had such a weird season the minutes have been up and down the roll has been up and down his involvement in the offense has been up and down he's a guy who like even though he converts

technically at a high rate by field goal percentage has to be very choosy with the shots that he takes because he doesn't have a lot in his bag down there like he doesn't have a lot of moves encounters he doesn't have

the capacity to create shots even within like five and six feet of the basket it's a dunk or a layup or it's not and that's really what he's got right now I would still want to invest in him as a promising young defensive big, as a shot blocker. But if someone bowls you over with an offer for Walker Kessler, if there's a package for the star you want that involves Walker Kessler, I wouldn't get too precious about his future in Utah. I think he's a good young player, and that's about where I would draw the line. And you could have a similar conversation about Colin Sexton, who's been awesome for the jazz.

But if the right trade comes along, Colin Sexton doesn't feel like he's nailed. down in Utah right now. That was actually my one other nice thing was about Colin Sexton and his commitment to his rat tail, which is unparalleled. There's no better relationship in this league than Colin Sexton and his rat tail. Yeah, I think I would agree with you guys. Markinen is, excuse me, Kessler is definitely an interesting prospect and the rim protection numbers are there even in his limited minutes, but you're right.

He's a little uneasy fit with the rest of the, the, lineup janga there and obviously the john collins thing kind of complicates things like they're committed to him for what two more seasons i believe after this one and like maybe he is now just mortay after the anthony edwards dunk attempt and we don't have to worry about that but i still don't know where that guy fits in i understand the talent play there for basically trading nothing to get him in there and see what he could be but kind of netted out to the same type of player i always expected him to be i mean he had a great life. I'm going to miss John Collins. It's tough to go out that way, but it happens to the best of us. All right. Before we get to our next team, we have a segment from Fandual. Is Fandul Ringer Big Buckets Pickham?

The Ringer Big Buckets Pickham is our free-to-play game on Fanduel, where you make picks about the Wednesday NBA slate for your chance to split $5,000 in prizes. So here's how it works every Wednesday, April 3rd, all you have to do is answer a series of 10 questions. If you get them right, you have a chance to win a share of $5,000 in total prizes. We've got the grid for this Wednesday on the 20th of March. Rob, which of these ones do you like? It's really easy on this one. Who will win between the Bucks and the Celtics in tonight's game? Yannis not even playing in this game, not participating. Feels like easy money for the best team in the Eastern Conference. Celtics are the pick definitively.

Don't add me if you lose. Wads, what about you? For me, it's who will win between the Kings and the Raptors. If you don't pay attention to the Kings, you don't know that they play down to all of their competition. And they've had a nice string of decent wins lately. And so expect the letdown against the Raptors. You'll be nine out of ten.

If you do not pick the Raptors tonight, they're going to beat the Sacramento Kings. All right. Shea Gildes Alexander to score over 27 and a half points against the Jazz tonight. It's an over under of 27 and a half. And I think he's only scored under 28, about 13 times this season. He's pretty much a lot to go for 30, pretty much every game. And the Jazz has one of the worst defenses in the league.

I think they're 29th this season. So lock that one in. So head to fandle.com slash ringer big buckets to play our free to play big buckets game on Fandul and make your picks for Wednesday's NBA action for your. chance to win a share of $5,000 in total prizes. All right, let's do the Memphis Grizzlies next on our list. I actually have three things written down for the Grizzlies. I have to say, yeah, I know.

I was watching the other day. I appreciate where they are right now. So I'm just going to rattle these off one after another. First thing, 15 of 23 wins this season have come on the road. That is more than the Los Angeles Lakers, like that toughness, especially from my Memphis Grizzlies. Number two, Desmond Bain, playing after a two-month absence. Isn't going to take the rest of March and April off?

This isn't a one, two, three, Cancun sort of situation. That guy's back out there getting reps next to some of these young guys. They're kind of coming to the four, which bring me to number three, which is that Gigi Jackson could possibly be one of the best draft picks of this draft class, which I have to say, this draft class pretty damn good. but this guy's everything you want out of a prospect. And I should say tomorrow Kyle Mann is going to update his rookie rankings. He has a thing about Gigi Jackson in there.

So go check that out. Andaman Thompson, by the way. Exactly. But he's just a big wing with all sorts of athleticism. He is a shooter, it seems like. And he's now playing alongside the starters, a lot of whom he potentially could be starting alongside next season. And while on the one hand, he definitely has.

has that sort of nervous energy. I need the ball in my hands. What am I doing without the ball in my hands? Like hand up, let me get the ball. But he's exactly what you would want from that position. He's like, he's 6-9, 215, 7-foot wingspan. Jaron Jackson is 610, 242 with a 7-4 wingspan. But like, he could easily be the last piece of this puzzle for this team. And so, uh, and you get him in the second round, you're not even fully committed to him. If he doesn't work out like, man, I think he could really be something, Rob. They've found some options here, whether it's Gigi Jackson, whether it's Vince Williams, whether it's a healthy Marcus Smart plugging into the lineup.

Memphis is going to have to make a call on how big it wants to play next season, whether it wants Sharon Jackson at the five full time. They tend to shy away from that sort of stuff, but maybe it's finally time to lean in that direction. Freaking foul magnet. He is a foul magnet. And I will say defensively, he is a different player at the four than at the five. Like he makes a different impact on the game as a rover when you also have another big body next to him.

But the fact that Gigi Jackson is 6-9 gives you a little more flexibility and he has that burst scoring that so many other Grizzlies role players now and past have not had. So to look at this team and say they actually have some wings and some forwards who can score now, who do stuff now. I mean, terrible news for Zaire Williams who categorically has not done stuff. but I'm very happy for the Memphis Grizzlies and what they found over the course of this season because this very easily could have been a lost year for them and they're going to come out of it with real prospects who are interesting

and can fit next to their best players they've gotten good reps for Bain and Jackson both trying new things and I do want to talk more about Desmond Bain in particular but as far as the overall shape of their team they're going to come out of this season with some real bright spots and that's huge for them given the circumstances

yeah and the part about Baints main coming back, that's also cool is that he's getting reps with the young guys, right? So the pillars, the main cogs of the team, they're developing a rapport, developing a chemistry, a continuity with the main cogs. And I think that's what takes your talent from one level to the next. It's when, you know, you have these built-in abilities to adjust on the fly because basically your players have developed a sort of mom meld, and that's from minutes played. You know, I'm watching the Warriors the other night.

And Clay Thompson and Jackson Davis, they're, like, Clay Thompson doesn't pass the ball to anybody, but he's feeding this dude. Allie Ups off of curls, and, like, this dude is giving up layup so he could throw it to Clay for a corner three. It's like, wow. But those things happen over time.

time, right? And I think that it's cool that this could happen in Memphis with the guys that are here. Well, I mean, keep it real. Everybody's here's here. It's of a job. So it's like, with these guys developing this with these young guys, that's really cool to see. And as far as his interaction with those players, Desmond Bain specifically, him accelerating as a playmaker has been really big for them. And when you think about what is this team going to be when Jha comes back? What are their bench lineups going to be when Jah goes to rest? What, like, what can they trot out there. I've been really encouraged by Bain finding guys, and finding guys, sure, at a higher level by

volume, like career high and assist, that's great. For me, it's more, if you are wired as a score, every time you go to the basket, there's going to be that voice in the back of your head that's like, you could hit this floater before the defense gets here. Like, just get the shot up. And Desmond Bain increasingly is a, as soon as the rotating defender takes one big step in his direction, that ball's fly into the corner. Weak side corner.

getting a guy open with a rhythm shot, clean before the defense can get there. It's a really hard adjustment for a score first player to make. And it's the kind that you get when you basically get parts of three seasons now, working on the ball over and over and over and over. And like the reps of this opportunity, I think, really coming home to Roost and paying off. You love Bain. How could you not? But you know what?

His biggest limitation, Justin traditionally, has been Tunnel Vision. and not being a great playmaker. So that he's, you know, and proven upon that weakness speaks highly of the guy and that he hasn't used this as some wasted season. He's used it as a way to develop, you know, secondary skills that are going to be very important when Jock comes back. Like, you got to give the guy props for actually showing some development, right, and not behaving like certain Australian light-skinned cats in the league, you know.

Okay. Yeah, I was a little disappointed. early season in Bain just because he wasn't able to drive results as being the guy when they were really down there. Yeah, exactly. That's where I would stop short. And like it seems like the conversation usually strays toward Desmond Bain, future All-Star.

And I might, especially in the West, be like, maybe he isn't that, but he's exactly what they need. And I think you're right. He definitely has just slowly made progress as a playmaker. So he's not just the kick-it-out shooter guy that- No. Could it be a future Clay Thompson-Thompson type of All-Star? a Memphis team that nails all their role players and is on a 64 win pace.

Yeah. He's better. He's better. He's closer to the Clay Thompson mold than the Kyle Corver mold. Jeff Teague is what you're saying? All right. All right. I really like Bain.

And I just think like having the full compliment of guys. I'm excited to see what he will do, what Jackson will do. And also I think this brings us to our essential question, which is like, what does this mean for the future of Marcus Smart on this team? because on the one hand, really didn't get a good run, especially with the guys that he thought he was going to be playing with this season. He himself was hurt. Wasn't it like he wasn't it the block or something that like broke his hand or broke a finger?

Yeah, it was a weird fluky play. Yeah. And so we don't really know what smart looks like on this team, let alone with Jha, with Bain, with Jackson, with everybody in there. On the other hand, he is probably the one guy you'd look at and say, maybe not as essential to what we're doing long term, especially if we wanted to play bigger in the front court with Jaron Jackson. And I think honestly, I've been thinking about that a lot. I think you do have to at the very least start with the center. I assume it's going to be Clark next year. I think Jackson just seems way more comfortable being the four on both sides of the ball that way. But what does that mean for smart? Making about $20 million a year. He's an attractive player on the trade market. You have this draft pick coming up presumably in the lottery this year. year. So Rob, where are you on smart just like long term next to these guys? I don't see why you couldn't keep him around. And to me, Bain's evolution, if Bain is more of this kind of primary

ball handler, even just for second units, that makes me feel a lot better about Marcus Smart not doing that job, which is what I would personally want. Like, I want Marcus Smart as a utility player, as someone who's going to create some offense, but we don't have to rely on him to run shit. That tends to be where things go off the rails, including for the Grizzlies this season. So I like him there. And I agree that their lineup can trend small, but they do need someone to shield Bain from really dangerous defensive matchups and to keep jaw out of the action as much as possible.

And Mark is smart. The variety of players he can guard is attractive to me. And Vince Williams has some of that too in great hands and I think can be a factor defensively, but isn't as accomplished and doesn't have the same reputation. And my ultimate answer for all this stuff is, why not both? Like, why not keep these wings that you've developed and found, and keep Marcus smart.

And my answer, as far as the big position, would be that center is more of a mercenary spot than ever. And you can get pretty decent work-a-day centers for exception money. And that's where I would play if I were the Grizzlies. We're not keeping Jemison around? Who said we're not? Man's hidden shots for days.

But I think that's my question more with smart was, is that if you're going to play two bigs in the front court, then I can see a problem coming, maybe in the playoffs, and at that point it's a rich man's problem, where it's like, oh, we need Marcus Smart to hit this open shot, and then he's missing those, and it's like, oh, God damn. It's like, I get the defensive side of the ball. I just wonder if he's enough of a stretch,

if you're going to play two bigs full time. See, to me, Marcus Smart hitting open shots in the playoffs on Memphis is a much tastier proposition than on Boston because he's asked to do way less, just generally speaking. And so it's less of a bit of, energy drain and what he has, like he's played in a lot of big playoff games. Granted, in some of those games, he's made some boneheaded decisions. We live and we learn was.

But listen, but by, just by, you know, de facto, the fact that he's been there, he's made a lot of big shots. He's contributed to a lot of big wins and big moments. If Memphis's ultimate aspirations is to be at the upper echelon of the West, I don't I'm obviously how Marcus Smart is a detriment to that. On a team that's built the way they're built. In Boston, he had too much freaking sway in the locker room. And he was too much of an influence as far as a personality and, you know, the sort of

culture of the team. I absolutely agree with that. But that's not the case in Memphis, right? He's just another guy there. He's not somebody that, quote, unquote, built the foundation and all of that stuff. Right? And so to me, if I'm Memphis, I'm absolutely keeping Marcus smart. Like the best of Marcus Smart, when you talk about his competitive nature and just, you know, all of the big game experience that he brings is definitely a valuable commodity.

And the Swiss Army knife nature of his game where like you plug and play where you need him depending on the matchup. Like I don't see why if you're a serious playoff team, you get rid of Marcus Smart. To me, he's a guy that got to stay. Yeah, it's almost not a play big or play small thing for the Grizzlies going forward. You're going to have to do all of it. And Marcus Smart is a flex piece in that regard. Yeah, probably a year too early, especially if we don't know what they're going to get out of the lottery. As Rob said, there's a lot of young guys still there to play through some mistakes.

All right, Portland, second or last on our list. I'm going to be in Portland this weekend. So any native Portlanders want to say hello and want to be nice about it? I'll definitely say hello back. I can't believe we're talking about them now. Just look for the guy with the flannel and the beard. I'm sure there'll be very, I'm sure there'll be nobody else with that look and aesthetic in Portland

while Justin's there. Yeah, I'm used to the paparazzi in L.A. I want to blend in with the crowd a little bit more. Rob, do you want to go first on your one nice thing about Portland? This is maybe the fringiest nice thing of all the nice things I brought to you today. But Portland is that kind of team. To be totally frank with you. Their injury situation has made it so tough to even find a lot of positives in their season.

Their young guys haven't developed as much as you would like. It's been a tough year out in Portland to say the least. And I mean this is a great compliment. I do not understand Jabari Walker. And yet, every game that I watch Portland play, I look at opposing threes and fours, and I wonder to myself, or sometimes out loud on my couch, why are you getting worked by Jabari Walker? and it happens every single game.

Like the one thing Portland does consistently well is offensive rebound. And the one guy on their team who does that and goes after it is Jabari Walker all the time. Like if you don't seal him off on the baseline or box him all the way out, he's going to sneak in and get second chance opportunities. And for a guy at his size who's not the strongest, not the most athletic, not like an impressive athletic specimen, really. He's just like a six nine forward who has a really, really high motor. And on a team like this, I see the very,

virtue in that. Like, if you're talking about young players in positional battles and you want them earning minutes and you want them competing, what you want is a bench guy like Jabari Walker breathing down their neck all the time, who it's, if you don't go after 50, 50 balls in the first quarter, you're out. Jabari Walker's in. If you don't go hard in practice, Jabari Walker is going to come take your spot. It's an incredibly valuable thing to have for a team in Portland's position, even if he's

not a huge factor in the grand scheme of the league. But I'm consistently impressed by how hard he plays. He's Jabari Parker with a motor. Except I'm not just nothing like Jabari Parker. No, yeah. He's like a, he's a crafty score. No, he's a crafty energy score. I'm telling you.

I guess. I mean, for me, I've been Anthony, and Fernie Simon's pilled for a solid four years now. Why is that? I just, I watched him cook, Kauai, and Paul, George once and like, I don't know for me, like just doing that in a competitive NBA game, even if it's for a quarter and a half, was always impressive to me.

And I think the conflict for Portland is who do they give these on-ball reps to? Simons to me, I think, is a guy who people originally thought of him as a microwave guy, you know, sort of just shoot it, just score, just do that, hopefully give an ounce of a dance, on defense every now and again and we'll be happy. But I think he's a guy that should be a heavy usage on ball guy. I really do. I think he's got some chops in the playmaking category, and he just needs the reps.

And by golly, man, when this guy gets hot, when he gets going and he's nailing those 27-footers and he's cooking people on these turnarounds and these stepbacks and getting to, like, it's really crazy to watch. So I'm not going to lie to y'all. I don't tune into a lot of Portland games. Okay. But when I do, I'm watching because of Anthony Simons, just to be real.

Can I ask a Simons question? Go ahead. Why is Anfernie Simons nickname Ant? It really bugs me in a way that I can't even explain. By all means, have your own nickname in your own life. But we already have Aunt Edwards, and that makes sense to me. So the best that I could do for you is he's obviously named after Penny Hardaway. Yeah.

which Anthony is just black American interpretation of Anthony. And so because that name derives from Anthony, that's why I'm just assuming they're calling him that, right? Like, you know, those Jabari dudes, that name derives from Jabbar. Like, black Americans just have a very creative way of naming their kids. And so I think people are just like, this is clearly an offshoot of the name Anthony. So we're calling him Ant instead of Amph.

I'm not advocating for Amph for the record. What if he just liked the movie Ants growing up? He didn't. Woody Allen got canceled, Justin. Yeah, that's true. What if he's just so small, but he carries such a big load so he plays like an ant? Oh, I like that. Okay.

You like that? I like reverse engineering are like alternative interpretations of these nicknames. That's a good one. You know? He's really got the whole franchise on his shoulders right now. See, this could have been a bit for Sunday. I'm just saying like this. There's options here. He's just flowing

with content ideas. This guy is a content machine. Every week we do an index or a ranking or a pie of some kind. But you know what? It's our fault for doing a mailbag. It's tough. It's hard work, but somebody has to do it. And when I'm not here, apparently nobody has to do it.

Do you want to tell us about Delano Bannon? I feel like 90% sure you're going to talk about Delano Bannon, Justin. You're damn right. I'm going to talk about Delano Bantin. I was going to set this up as like maybe the point guard of the future isn't Anthony Simons or Skute Handerson or Shaden Sharp. Maybe it's Delano Banton. No, I actually don't think that much.

But I do think he is a keeper because this guy. clearly has something. He's a incredibly long athlete. I guess if if ant is the ant and he's the praying mantis or something, but like 6'9, just real thin. Yeah, exactly.

But just like super long and athletic. And clearly there's something there because the Raptors gave him a hard look. The Celtics gave him a hard look. Unfortunately, didn't have the playing time to get there. Now the shot's coming along. So in 17 games with Portland as we record,

this Wednesday morning. 30 for 77 from 3. That's 39% from the floor. In the 119 NBA games he's played before that. So that's Toronto and Boston. 30 for 118, that's 25%. Now, this is where we probably throw up the red flag, just the fact that you've played in 17 games and shot well.

Maybe that is the outlier. But maybe he's also getting a little bit more of a longer leash with the Blazers to play through some of those mistakes. And I have to say, like, when he plays with Ant, there is a little bit of a like a switchoff where like maybe simons is the ball handling too but Delano is more of the big one and like that makes more sense to me in some of these other lineups that they've been trotting out there uh we'll see but i definitely think there's something here that at the very least they got to bring this guy back next season so let me ask you guys something

um obviously there's some complications some complicating factors in their back court with their young guys and it's going to take a depth, you know, sort of creative hand to navigate and chef that up. Do you guys have faith in Chauncey Billups and Joe Cronin? I don't know what to do here. I don't know if even like an accomplished hand would have an easy path to figuring this out here because Scoot's primarily coming off the bench. Sometimes he's coming. He's starting with those guys. clearly hasn't really done much there. I mean, it seemed, like, I know you were, I think Portland was hoping that they traded in their very steady escalade.

They would have gotten the brand new Ferrari off the lot and ended up with what seems to be a Prius right now. And so that doesn't feel good. Wait, walk me through that metaphor. Like, what's up with the Prius? No, they thought they were getting a Ferrari. Yeah, so Ferrari would have been, at the draft.

Prius is just like a dependable. like... And Dane was like a Cadillac escalator. That part makes... I just don't see a scoot as the fuel efficiency type, if you know what I mean. Yeah. Okay. What would you have gone with? Like a Camry?

I don't know. Yeah. Something that's just eating gas, honestly, most of the time. Maybe an H-2? Like, just get an H-2 off the U-Slot? Tesla's all-electric. Losing value? I know, but it's losing value as we speak. We're saying nice things.

We're going off the rails. We're keeping it nice with this team. But I think there's even a logic to what they've done lately that won't even hold when Shaden Sharp gets back. And he might be probably have the highest upside of any of these guys. So it's just like a really complicated decision. And I mean, we want to talk about like the heat trade that they didn't make coming up. That's what that's why I wanted to talk about it. What do we believe of the stewards of this franchise? Do we think they're killing it? I think they're doing okay. Okay. Yeah. So here's the question I had down for us, which is now. with about a year of hindsight, would you have done the package that they did for Dame, the Bucks trade, or the heat deal, and just to lay it out here. So I didn't include Aiton in this,

if only because that was more of a NERC. Ayn was going to be in the Heat Deal, too. They've had a hard on for him forever. No, no, I know, but it was more of a Nirkich for Aiton swap with stuff. Like, really the only thing that passed through Portland from Milwaukee was Grayson Allen, who ended up being a big part of it.

but if you go by the reporting at the time, apparently Portland was like, we're going to get you a player. Don't worry about it. You're going to like him. And it just ended up being Grayson Allen. And so like, I don't know.

They did like him. So if you want to throw an Aton, you can, but to me, that was more of a Nirkich trade than it was. And like, just it got looped into the Dame trade. But whatever.

You want to add A. That's a fair way to look at it. Yes. They netted Brogden Williams. Two firsts, one from, excuse me, three firsts, one from Golden State, one from Boston, one from Milwaukee, and two swaps. The heat deals really tough to track down, like what exactly it was. The best I got, and was,

you could probably tell me differently, was from an athletic report in September after the dame trade to Milwaukee, which suggested that in July and August, they could have gotten Hero, Yovich, not Hawkes, up to three firsts, multiple seconds, swaps, and then salary, and they didn't even say whether the salary was Lowry at Duncan. If it was like, Hawkes, As Duncan, like you traded Hero for something else, maybe Yovic, I'm like, oh, then yes, the heat trade would have been better. I think it's safe to say in the summer if there were good faith negotiations happening on both sides, Portland could have eventually gotten to having Hakez and Yovic. That's generally how these deals happen. If that's true, that changes a lot.

If it's one of those guys, and I'm not even sure that three firsts were on the table. A lot of the reporting at the time was two firsts, Hero, maybe Yovic, and the salary of Lowry or Duncan Robinson. We're talking about the Miami Heat. I think they maybe could have got creative about being, maybe it won't be our pick. Maybe we'll find a way to get you somebody else's pick.

It could have gotten worked out to where what you're looking at Portland right now could have been equalized, but they just didn't want to do that. So it never happened, right? Like, it's hard to prove a negative or a positive that got negated. You know, like, it just never got there. They never got off of the ground more than preliminary talks. But let's just, like, let's just keep it a thousand. like Brogden is Brogden

Okay They just knew they was going to get a haul for him somehow Even though he's been injured to hell And like even at his best He's like all right A cool guy to have Rob Williams who I love But we all know his knee is getting worse

And not better That's just a actual statement Factual statement And what? Those picks that you just mentioned So here's the difference. I do think a lot of it comes down to what they do with Brogden and Williams. And it is a little weird that they hung on to Brogden at the trade deadline. Maybe he's just like a steady event.

I don't know. But like Williams at the very least was a disappointment, the fact that he got injured so quickly, just completely muddled everything there. I do think it ultimately comes down to Hakez as like the blue chip asset versus the future bucks picks. because if we're looking at long-term upside, if we're looking for the home run out of this, I think those are the two things you need to compare. And like,

I don't think shorting the bucks is long-term future. And we're talking 20, 29, 20, 30. So this is going to be a completely different generation probably, is the worst idea. But obviously it isn't the bird in the hand that is Hock-as. If it comes down to that, I'd probably prefer Hockes. But I actually think they're kind of comparable in the long run.

Yeah. Yeah. it feels like a hard counterfactual to unravel, given what we don't know, given the fact that negotiations never really even took place, as you said, Was. Hawkes' inclusion would change things. I will say that. People owe Yovitch some apologies, too, because that dude can play.

They can play. And the way people were talking about him as if he was some scrub. And, you know, if we're keeping it a thousand, this is group chat. We got to keep it real with our listeners. the hero situation hasn't been fantastic. Let's keep it real. He hasn't looked like some game-killing, you know, world-beating, oh, you know, when they were floating. I like how keeping it real for you is being honest about hero, like an honest opinion about Tyler Hero because you've been so anti-P Portland the entire time.

No, it's just being balanced because you got to remember all the vitriol that was coming out. And again, I remember when Lebertard and then was like, well, people in the heat think he could be the next Devin Booker was just like, you know, we got to come on. No, no, they don't. No, they don't. That's insane.

All due respect to Dan Levitard. There's the things we think and there's the things we say. And I don't think anybody with the heat really thinks that Tyler Hero could be the next Devin Booker. And so, yeah, like, so the Tyler Hero part of it, I think people work wholly justified for being like, fuck that. I don't want that dude over here. So, you know, I just think the way the heat trains.

was always characterized as this horrible deal for Portland. And I continue to think that that was never the case. Yeah. It does seem like an either or situation. Pretty reasonable comparison, pretty reasonable offers. One piece of information we have now that we didn't then is what that Warriors pick is going to be, which is a 2024 pick and is now looking like it's going to be the 13th pick or so in the draft.

Like that's not nothing. That's good. That's insane. Yeah. Yeah. interesting to look back on that we have this time. I don't know where I would know. I might still do the bucks deal, but

it depends on you. Hakez, I think. I think a not small, I mean, this is kind of a small part of it, but something worth noting, depending on how we think about the Aiton element of this, would Portland still get to Mani Kamara, who's a good young player?

That's the other thing that I didn't mention. That's a side part of that deal. And so if we're thinking of Aiton and Kamara coming to the Blazers regardless, that does even out the scales a little bit, because that's a nice feather in the cap of the deal that Portland actually executed. Yep. That's true. All right. Let's move on to the Spurs. I feel like we say nice things about the Spurs all the time. Actually, Rob, you're not as nice about the Spurs as some of the rest of us, but yeah. Should we say nice things about the Spurs that don't relate

to Victor Webbenyama? No, because there's nothing nice to say. But there aren't any nice things about the Spurs to say that are Victor Wemian. Are you going to give me some Chetty Osmond takes right now? This is where you're wrong. There are things. to say about the Spurs that don't include Victor Webbenyama. In particular, I think we got a little bogged down in the early season point guard debacle of

Trey Jones's primary utility in conversation being the fact that he was not Jeremy Sohan. And then after he became the starting point guard, I think people basically ignored his existence for the rest of the season. I'm not asking the people out there to watch a bunch of Spurs games.

I get why that's happening and why that's not happening. But Trey Jones, Since becoming the starter, 11, 7 and 4, 5541-90 splits, playing the best basketball of his career, the most promising basketball of his career. I really like what he's doing. And I like, honestly, weirdly enough, the Jones and Sohan tandem, I think, kind of works.

Because Jones's limitations as a small guard, who's not a crazy playmaker, are offset some by, like, the fact that he will find Sohan on the move or in the corner and he can redirect the offense as a facilitator. Like the way those guys work together makes sense, especially when you have Victor Webb and Yam out there drawing so much attention. And the Trey Wembe pick and roll or really pick and pop,

I think is coming along pretty nicely. And it's the kind of thing where Trey has had to evolve into that over the course of this season. Like you can't be the passive game manager guy if you're playing with a popping big all the time. Like you have to put pressure on the basket. You have to turn the corner and look to get downhill. And I think he's had to wire himself to do that a little bit more for the Spurs this season.

And he's doing it in a way that I think is reassuring for the player he can finally be. I'm not saying he's ever going to be an above average starting point guard in the NBA. But he's getting closer to the level that the Spurs would want. Yeah, Trey Jones reminds me of Charlie Ward on the 99 Knicks, right? He's never going to kill his team, but he's never going to kill the opponent either. No. Okay. He's a nice, steady guy.

at the ship, you feel safe that he is at the helm, but you're never like, oh, Trey Jones is going to be the decisive, you know, part of some victory. And definitely he's not going to be decisive part of any loss either. And I think there's something to say about that. I think Bill used to be like he's a, he doesn't take anything off the table guy. You know, he doesn't take anything off the table. He's going to make his open shots. He's putting pressure on the cup these days when the opportunity presents himself, he makes smart decisions. Like, he's a nice, steady guy.

He's a game manager. You know, Cam Newton would say he's not, you know, he's not a difference maker, you know. And so I like what Trey Jones. I've always liked what Trey Jones brings to the table, right? Because there's so much, because you see what it's like, you know, and even so, even when it's not a Sohan type, who's like being some experimental point guard,

you see what it's like when there's not a steady hand. on the dial, right? And we just take it for granted when a guy is just making sure the trains run on time. When it's not, it looks disastrous. You know, just the other day, the heat were mounting this furious comeback against Philadelphia. They employed a full court press. And obviously, Maxie can, you know, he can handle ball pressure, but when they forced it out of his hand, all these other guys just like, they just couldn't dribble. And you see what it's something. like when somebody who isn't steady with the rock and the decision making has the ball in his hands, right?

And so I'm not trying to damn the guy with fame and praise. I'm just saying like, he's a nice guy. It's not, you don't tune in the games to watch, you know, cold game management ship. No. No. But game management ship plus actually hitting threes at a consistent rate for the first time in his career.

That's a big thing. Finding synergy with your team's best player. That's an important thing. And frankly, I think becoming. a little bit more than just the stand-in for an idea of not being Jeremy Sohan over the course this year has been a big thing for them. He's become a player of his own

in a way that is beneficial to the Spurs, but also obviously beneficial for his career. Can we talk about Wembe now? If we must, talk about one of the best players in the sport, sure. So my new favorite thing is watching Wembe go from the other side of the court to contesting a three-player in the corner. He did it the other night,

off of like a rotation where I swear to God the shooter from Dallas was in the corner caught it and that's when Wembe decided to go out and to contest and he was on him like like a laser beam. Like he was just already there. He almost got it. He tipped one of Lucas shots from three that game two. And I was surprised I looked this up. He's only had seven block three pointers and I assume that's because he's parked in the paint for most of the time, especially as he's transitioned more to true center. But just the ground this dude covers, man, just like a, like a cross between a giraffe and like a leopard. It's just like, it's unbelievable the amount of just ground that he's able to cover so quickly. And like, I can't wait to keep watching more and more of that.

Which parts are giraffe and which parts are leopard? I think you could figure this out. I just want your vision. Draft body, leopard speed. Okay. All right. And he's fair a lot. He's fast and lengthy. There you go. Anything on Wembe that we haven't covered? Anything that you guys marvel at? Okay, I'll say this about Wembe. Ever since I've scoffed at the idea that he was

defensive player of the year, which I still don't believe. He's been doing ridiculous shit on defense pretty much every single game since that's happened where, you know, and obviously the contesting a corner three while you're already in the pain. when the pass happened is, you know, that was one of the things that, like, the nerds used to drool about Miami Heat LeBron. Like, his closeout speed was just insane on shooters because they played that hyper-aggressive style where guys did have to recover.

That was part of the defense. Just the standard weak side rim protection when the guy isn't actually attacking Wembe, but attacking somebody else and Wembe is leaving. his guy to go help on that. And he's pinning it when he's not outright giving a fantastic contest. Those are the kinds of every single possession plays that are going to make this team impossible to score against because you think you're taking him out of the action. And he's like, no, no, you're not.

No, you're not because I've just completely ignored my guy. And if you give it, then if you try to make that rotational pass, I'm going to cover that ground, right? Like, those kinds of things happen on a possession by possession basis. And that's the kind of stuff that demoralizes guys. You know, it's like when a team is trying to get the run started in football and they can't get past the line of scrimmage. It's like, should we even be trying this anymore?

You know, and that's the stuff that I'm like, whoa, okay, this is getting serious now. Yeah, I think it's a huge part of understanding Webbenyama's case for all defense or defensive player of the year, understanding the prospect. the player he can ultimately be that idea of deterrence. And we talk all the time about, oh, there are players who deter shots in the paint, who, you know, you see guards veer out because they want no part of challenging him or Rudy Gobert or other shot blockers. But if he's doing that, Justin, with three-point shooters on the weak side, who are

clocking him across the paint and thinking, is there a chance he's going to go after this ball? If you can put that thought in a defender's head, you've already, or in a shooter's head, you've already won. And so the fact that he's able to do that with the range of shots, just putting that idea and that bit of doubt in a shooter's mind is a huge transformative thing. And it's affecting plays all over the floor now. And it's only going to get stronger and stronger the more he makes those crazy blocks.

Yeah, it gets me thinking about the long-term vision next to him and like what's the perfect front court compliment. Because on the one hand, putting him at true center has unlocked him in certain ways. but on the other hand, I wonder if you have him more as a rover and you have a big who probably has some stretch to his game offensively, then you can use him in certain ways. Just watching him help off of like Luca and some of the other Dallas players and like just to see what he's able to disrupt just by being near the play. It's like it's not really a blitful blitz on Luca, but he's just kind of lurking. And you see him just like completely like change the calculus of Luca's kickout passes to some of these shooters. and if they're not hitting like, then it's just like completely disrupting everything.

I mean, it's like it's less of a, it looks like a sandworm at certain times, like from Dune when he's just like, pop up. Come on, let's fucking go. It's just like,

man, it's, it's unbelievable. Yeah, we found the right, like, wormy sort of comp there. So that's what I need.

The giraffe jaguar thing was lost on me, but the sandworm, I'm understanding where you're coming from now. This is gold, baby. But long term, this brings us to our question of whether or not you still have faith in the San Antonio Spurs. On the one hand, there's about like two to three decades of evidence to suggest that they still got something.

On their hand, lately it hasn't been so great pretty much since post-Kawai. You know, there really hasn't been much to latch on to, was, including like around Wembe. We've talked about this in past episodes like, yeah, Trey Jones is making a progress. So, Han, you know, some of these other guys, like where is the rest of the roster around him and do you trust pop and the crew to bring the right team around him so i can hold two thoughts at once one i don't think the coaching and management meaning talent um pure procuring talent and the coaching and building up and developing of said talent i think they're in the bottom 15 of the league at that honestly i don't think

there's been any proof that they're great at finding these diamonds in the rough and bringing guys in and, you know, molding this talent and, you know, finding, bringing guys in unconventional ways. No, and I don't think Popovich is some ace coach anymore either. However, I think he's earned the right to screw this up. And so as long as he feels like showing up the work every day, I do think it's his right as the guy that is, you know, given this franchise unprecedented success over the course of two and a half, three decades. You know, it's his right to do so. But I don't think they're going to be killing it in terms of their jobs in management during the Wembe era.

I don't see the proof of this. They said the same thing about Bill Belichick. Just saying. I've been watching the dynasty. See, but because it's football, they got his ass up out of it. You know, I don't know. But they didn't give him the run post Brady, is what I'm saying.

Yes, they did. They did. Yeah. They did. I stopped a little short of that, I think, was. And some of, look, recent history, I would not say the spurs have covered themselves in glory with some of their picks. Sohan is at best a mixed result, probably negative for his pick value.

Like a top 10 guy, you would want more than Jeremy Sohan. Josh Primo, let's just say as a basketball player, Not good. Person. Yeah, I'm throwing that one out. Devin Vassell, good player with the 11th pick. That's fine. Really, the meat of it for me, if we're thinking about the Spurs as a talent acquisition operation.

Zach Collins doesn't get the juices flowing for you? No, no, he does not. But Dejonte Murray, Derek White. Lonnie Walker's fine, but Dejante Murray, Derek White, Kelton Johnson, all with the 29th pick in the draft. That's not nothing. Like those are real players to get at the very end of the first round. And certainly there's been some front office upheaval in San Antonio, some shifting of roles, some transformation there. I'm not saying that they're in a great position.

But it's not as if they don't have any hits. So they should only draft at the bottom of the first round. That's the key. They're drafting too high. It's either one or 29. Those are the only picks you should select players with. Well, wasn't Branham late first as well? Well, we don't talk about Malachi

Brandem anymore. He's actually been he's been better lately, but better of his relative. It's been a tough year for those of us who tried to invest in real estate on Malachi Brandem Island and I don't know,

there was some kind of tax fraud or something happening there. I wasn't even able to buy property. Tough bring. Yeah. I will say Zach Collins is like you paid nothing for him. Wasn't an awful talent play.

But then they paid him. But then he pays, right? They gave him an extensive. it. I mean, and again, they had a bunch of a team full of young guys. Who were you going to give money to? I think there's some of that. At a certain point, you got to hit the salary floor, you know. It's true. So, I don't know, I'm mixed, but like this offseason,

I would like to see some progress. You think the spurs are going to just do a bang up job of surrounding Wembe with complimentary talent and making him feel empowered and making him feel proud to be a spur for the next few years. that's going to happen? I think they're just as likely to have reached for Mac Jones in the draft coming up. So no, I don't. But I think the problem and the advantage for the spur side of things is they're signaling this is going to be a long process. We're not going to import veterans and Trey Young types.

We're going to take our time to get guys. And I think long term, that makes the most sense. On the other hand, that's the type of thing that I think GMs would want in order to really like carefully nail draft picks and so far they haven't done that. And, you know, whatever. I think Wembe is like such a freaking gamer and he's such a team-oriented guy and he's so singularly focused on, you know, I've talked to a couple of guys who have been around it. The guy is hyper-focused on being the best player that he could possibly be.

He is committed to getting everything out of his talent. And so just that he's singularly focused on that, if Wembe Nails Wembe, at the end of the day, notice how the shit matters. Yeah. Like, at the end of the day, he's going to be so freaking great. It's not going to matter what Popovich and him do. Also, I'm kind of aligned with your initial stance on Owas,

which is that Pop has earned the right to do this. Yeah. And I'm not saying that Pop will be... He's got equity. He may not be the coach of the Spurs when they contend again, or even when they're kind of, making it through multiple rounds of the playoffs again. For my money, he's the best coach in NBA history.

And if the worst of this is Victor Web and Yama is around Greg Poppet for a couple years. He's better than Phil Jackson every time he faced him. That's crazy. He's so much better than Phil Jackson. That is crazy. That's crazy. We'll save that for Sunday, it was. That's crazy.

I would like to see Pop downshift, especially on the personnel side at this point. Like that is where I get a little bit concerned and start to see the bell of ship counts. On the other hand, I've been watching too much of this dynasty doc. Who was a guy who said, you know, and this is back before we got all woke in the media, but he was like, yeah, I prefer to international guys. They work hard. They're not lazy. They're not divas and prima donnas and blah, blah, blah.

That was pop. That was pop. If the argument is Phil and pop, I don't know if you want to bring the woke stuff into it. I'm going to say that. Listen, listen, man. Listen, LeBron's hortarge was bordering on posse levels. Come on.

Somebody had to say it, Rob. No, they did not. They simply did not. I'm trying to think of the best way to transition off of that. I guess since we're talking about LeBron James, this brings us to our next segment, which is sponsored by State Farm, our good friends. Today's Drop the Ball is brought to you by State Farm.

Let's Be Real. No team is flawless. except for the group chat podcast. They all experience highs, those glorious moments under the spotlight. At the same time, they go through those seasons when things just don't click. Rob, what's an example of a team historically? We're talking about the spurs and maybe they drop the balls. What's an example historically of a team that maybe dropped the ball?

Yeah, I think dropping the ball with a prospect as great, as impressive, as undeniable as Victor Webbenyama, to me always is accelerating too quickly. And the recent example of that to me is Anthony Davis, a New Orleans team that went too hard, too fast, into youngish veterans, guys who had been around the league for a couple years, who were already productive, who were already pros. But in doing so, invested way too much

in guys who just weren't good enough. And then all of a sudden, you're looking around at your team, around your transformational first-round pick, and there's Tyreek Evans over there, and there's Ryan Anderson over there who very quickly kind of fell out of the league after that point.

There were good parts of that experiment, but I think if you have a player like Wembe, like AD, any kind of really great young prospect, you have to try your best to keep your options open for a couple seasons to get more elite talent in the door, however you can. Yeah, but I think about teams screwing it up, especially with bringing in complimentary young talent with the young phenom. And I think about LeBron and Cleveland's first stint, where they're drafting dudes like Luke Jackson and to the point where when he finally does get to, I think that was his second postseason in 2007 when they went to the finals.

Legitimately, the second best player on the Cleveland Cavaliers in the Eastern Conference Finals was Boobie Gibson, a guy who was chosen in the second round and who after LeBron left town was no longer in the NBA. That was the second best player on a finals team in 2009 when they got ran by the Orlando Magic because they couldn't guard Dwight Howard. one-on-one, and Stan Van Gundy and them pioneered the four-out offense. They got ran in that Eastern Conference because they just literally, they didn't have a Kendrick Perkins type, quite frankly, the guard Dwight Howard one-on-one, right?

So when you don't nail the young pieces before the big contracts kick in, before, you know, the guy's so good, he's bringing you into post-season, probably taking you the heights that you don't even deserve to be at. When you're not nailing the complimentary talents and you're dropping the ball, that could be a detriment to your young phenom as well. You say they didn't have the Kendrick Perkins types, like they didn't drag Shaquille O'Neal and Ben Wallace out there, you know? Yeah.

By the way, in Orlando, that Orlando series, the second best player was Delante West, y'all. Think about that. Yeah. Did you hear that pop? No J.J. Hickson's. No Anton Jameson on his last leg. No young veterans like Tyree. Yeah, right.

But what you could look to is our friends at State Farm because in times like these, you need someone who can help. And it's no different with insurance. State Farm is there to help answer insurance questions about your car, your home, and other things that matter to you, whether it's on the phone, online or on the award-winning State Farm mobile app. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. I think that's it for us. I will just say that in the midst of this podcast, I was looking up Jabari Parker and Jabari Walker's stats. Not that different, my friend. So take that.

They're totally different players. This is ridiculous. I don't think that's true. Both rebounders, both the little pudgy athletes. I'm telling you it's there. Anyway, that's it for me. Have fun with these guys on the weekend. I'll be back on Wednesday.

They'll be back on Sunday. Send us those mailbag questions, guys. Ringer group chat at gmail.com. Ringer group chat at gmail.com. Get them in. There you go. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz.

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