The Ringer NBA Show - Saying Goodbye to the Sixers and Looking Ahead to the Eastern and Western Conference Finals | Group Chat (Ep. 265)

Episode Date: May 10, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, Justin Verrier, and Haley O'Shaughnessy comfort Chris Ryan following the Sixers' loss to the Celtics. Then the group makes some predictions for the Celtics-Cavaliers and Warriors-Rockets matchups. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. My name is Chris Ryan, and we're going to be getting into the show in just a second. We recorded this on Wednesday night after the Sixers' funeral game. The Sixers went down to the Celtics 4-1 and the Garden. Is it still called the Garden? Eh, we'll call it the Garden. I was joined by Kevin O'Connor, Haley O'Shaughnessy, and Justin Verrier for this show. It was fun. So check this out. Check the Ringer NBA show out all week. We have great shows for you. He check. Kevin Verno, draft class. say group chat. There's some other great shows

on the Ringer Podcast Network that you should check out. Dave Chang's show. How about that? The chef behind Major Domo and Mo Fuku is doing a podcast with the Ringer Podcast Network. Learn about what it's like

to open a restaurant in Los Angeles, the stresses, the joys, the pains. It's a fascinating podcast. Dave Chang Show, you should subscribe to that. Also, you're probably watching Westworld if you're listening to this because I believe that you have a diverse palette of cultural interests

besides basketball. And if you need to understand Westworld better, why don't you listen to Westworld The Recapables with David Shoemaker. He's got a rotating panel of guests that join him every Sunday night after Westworld goes up to discuss

what happened in that episode and what might be happening in future episodes. Theories, everything about it. It's a fantastic pod. Check out Shoemaker and the gang on West World The Recapables. And without further ado, let's get into group chat. Basketball is very good.

O'KC would make the finals in the east. Ben Simmons doesn't need a jumper Terry Rozier is more clutch than Kyrie basketball is very good Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show It's group chat I'm Chris Ryan This is Haley O'Shaughnessy

That's Kevin O'Connor And this is Justin Barrier Who I was noticing earlier in the day Was dressed in all black And it was only in the fourth quarter When he told me It's for the funeral game The Sixers just got eliminated by the Celtics

And I think, you know, we thought maybe Celtics Cavs were going to be the Eastern Conference finals. I don't think we thought it would be a Celtics team led by Aaron Baines and Terry Rozier the third, aka Tito Three Sticks, AKA H. Gary Terry. Any other nicknames we don't know about? Drew Bloodsose Muse. Yes, Drew Bloodsose Muse Cage. Kevin, I'm going to be gracious here and ask you for the Celtics perspective before we get into the Sixers. What can the Celtics take away from this?

They were actually led by the two Jays by Jalen and Jason tonight and just incredible performances from Horford who basically owned Ben Simmons. Tell me what you saw from the Celtics game in this series. I mean, even without Gordon Hayward and Kyrie Irvin, they still have an elite defense, and they have the best coach in basketball

that really enhances the rest of the roster. I mean, the fact is that Philadelphia was favored in each game this series for good reason. A lot of talent, but they came out with a really spectacular game plan in order to contain Ben Simmons and make it hard on Joe L'A. either Al Horford or Joe Al-Lambeet.

I think there's a lot of guys who can defend multiple positions. They ask so many questions with the Sixers. Like I don't think that you watch the Sixers against the Heat, you watch them in that 16-game winning street, then all of a sudden they run up against

Horford and Stevens. And now we're all like, well, what do you do with Ben Simmons? If he can't really get past Al-Horford at the free throw line, like do you have T.J. McConnell and who rolls the ball when McConnell and Simmons are on the same time?

Like, what questions do you think that the Sixers are facing now? I mean, at this point, you go back to the questions they had maybe going into the season, where you know that you have those two guys, but what do they have around them? Robert Covington was supposed to be their fourth or fifth guy to that starting lineup. I don't know what... They paid him to be that guy. What is he making $51 million now based off of that?

And I don't know if he's the type of guy you want to keep around the team long term. If this was just a blip on the radar or whatever, Markell Fultz, some of the guys they brought in late in the season, they went cold, and all of a sudden you're looking at a team that should just Embed in Simmons. and now what are you going to do to build around them? It's obviously going to be the defining question of this offseason. Well, I think if Markell was who everyone thought he was going to be when he was drafted, then we would see actually like an offense like we saw tonight if him and Simmons shared the floor.

Yeah. Let's be real. This team is far ahead of where anybody could have expected it to be at this point. I mean, despite the fact Ben Simmons had an awful series, he was tired. That's why his defense regressed. We already know he shoots with the wrong hand. It can't score outside. And it avoids contact inside.

We already knew those things here to improve that, but like, this team overall is still far ahead. They still have max cap space. They still have assets. They're still in an unbelievable spot. Does that make you feel any better? Yeah. Look, like, before the 16 game winning streak, this was basically a marginally better than 500 team. And they were learning to be good.

And they were really exciting to watch because they were essentially a bass break team with the most exciting big man and the most interesting playmaker in the league. And then they beat the crap. out of a bunch of tankers and learned to be really good over the course of that win streak. But I never expected them to be in the Eastern Conference finals this season. Right.

We're there without Kyrie or Boyd. You were like telling people to stop saying that. Yeah, not even to jinx them. What's that? That's just what you do. Yeah. No, but I was saying really earlier, like if they had lost one or two games

in that 16-game streak, would we have the same expectation for them now? Right. Right. I don't know. It just seems like this was a necessary right of passage for a team that's on the come up. I mean, a lot of these guys are playing their first full season.

As Kevin mentioned, Ben Simmons, even Joel Embed is playing, what, his season, first season and a half? Yeah. There's still a lot of room to grow here, and there's a lot of versatility in terms of, like, what they could do to add to it. You get the best of times and the worst of times of these guys. Yeah, I think even the simplest things we saw in that game where you're, you know that a couple of playoffs or even one playoffs will fix, like Joel and B's dumb fouls, just out of

frustration and being tired. Yeah. He'll be more efficient. He'll be more efficient. You know, like. Yeah. So I think that a lot of things are just going to be worked out

even next season. I think the only fear really is, you know, durability. That's pretty much still the same question as it was before with Joel and Bede. It's durability. It's a little bit tactically unnerving for them to be at this point in the season

and just not be able to convincingly run any pick and roll. Right? So like if they can't get any offense that doesn't involve shooters who are pretty streaky coming off multiple screens, or pounding the ball down loading them bead. If you've got somebody like Horford and Kevin, I don't know if you have the stats still pulled up,

but we were looking at this earlier. At one point during the game, I was just like, it just seems like Horford is out there haunting. Like every time Simmons is out there, Horford is like the roadblock, and we looked at the what's the stats? So entering tonight's game,

we don't have the updated stats, but entering tonight, Al Horford was on the floor for 135 of Ben Simmons 148 minutes. So over 90% of the time, Horford was on the floor at the same time. As you said, Horford was out there just haunting Ben Simmons. And I'm sure that was part of the game plan for the Celtics where they probably said,

Horford needs to be on the floor anytime Simmons is out there. Right, and that's kind of the worrisome thing about Simmons. Not that he needs to get his shot, which clearly he does. It's that he didn't take a single three. And now we're at the point where it's becoming almost like a psychosomatic sort of thing, where it's why wouldn't you even take one just to make the defense even think about that as a possible option.

Isn't it fascinating that within a span of really two weeks, we're going from, Ben Simmons is the most exciting young player in basketball, next Magic Johnson, maybe the next LeBron, and then it's like, play T.J. McConnell over it. Why is T.J. McConnell not running the offense? It's so weird. This is basketball, though, man.

You learn so much in the series because you just see guys, take away what you're good at and exploit what you're bad at, and especially a great coach like Stevens. Like, I have all the faith in the world that Simmons is going to be a transformational player. But were you going to jump in there about something? I just was wondering why Brett didn't force Simmons to take at least one three. Just one. That's all I asked for. Yeah.

I mean, it's the difficult thing is if you're going to play Simmons off the ball, he's going to be a liability. He's basically dead weight. So unless he's cutting to the basket, it's really, really tough. Powell, did you have something else? To that point, he was the only starter who had a, uh, negative plus minus for the sixers tonight. He was a minus 13. And I think just kind of reiterating what you guys were also talking about. It's just it, the expectations things is interesting to me because it's almost like you could you could frame this series loss as and like they got exposed,

especially Simmons. But you could also just like frame it as like this is just what they need to be refined for future seasons. You know, like it's like I don't know how negative you can possibly be about them because I get it. It's tantalizing you're there. You were literally like a second away from winning this game. But at the same time, do you, after the series, did you trust them to go up against LeBron? No. I think that's the, and that's one of the things that I think should keep these guys awake over the summer

is the self-inflicted wounds, like you were just saying. It's like there is a bunch of, there's like missed dunks, there's allowing Aaron Baines to get offensive rebounds when really nobody is there. There's, uh, techs. There's careless turnovers because Simmons is looking for the Hollywood pass instead of just like a five foot pass to his right or left that might just set up another pass for an assist. It's just basic stuff that I think will come, but they were playing a little bit over their heads.

I guess I feel we're talking so much about Philly because I do think we should give Boston a lot of credit here while we're giving Ben all these excuses about it's his first year and fatigue and all this stuff. Like Jason Tatum just led his team through two serieses to go to the Eastern Conference Finals to face LeBron. Yeah, I think it opens up an interesting discussion about what talent really is.

I think we have this older idea that it's, the offensive stars, it's your stretchy wings. It's why Paul George has a shoe and a guy like Anthony Davis doesn't because he fits that like archetypical mold of like a sexy wing score. Yeah. But clearly the Celtics have talent

just maybe not necessarily in the way that we're used to. They have the right defensive pieces and yeah, they have Brown and Tatum. I feel something coming. Is this the most talked about player that nobody talks about? Are we going to do a little prayer for Alhorn?

Alper. I was going to say which one? because we say that about all four of their start. Yeah. No, Horford was incredible. Horford was mind-blowing tonight. Like, Horford is just, I hate that it's like that he's just, without Horford, like, the Sixers win that series.

But Horford essentially shut down, like, so many different parts of the Sixers. If we were able to quantify defense as well as we do offense, I wonder what it would say about Horford. To Justin's point, I think that's the way the Celt has constructed their roster, right? I mean, think about two of the guys missing, Gordon Hayward and Daniel Tice, both of those guys also versatile guys. You can't artificially inflate Daniel Tice's value. Well, I mean, they brought him in as a guy.

They expected to be a versatile, you know, switchy center. So it's like, oh, up and down that roster, basically everybody can switch on defense. And it's like, you can't quantify that, but if they were a way to quantify that properly, I would assume that they would probably be at the highest level in the NBA in terms of defensive versatility. And that's the way you need to play in today's league.

Haley, do you think that this Celtics team has a prayer against LeBron? like the way LeBron is playing. No, absolutely not. That's it. That's literally it. Do you think there will be a series? I hope.

Yes, because of Brad Stevens. But even though they have an answer for every other part of that team, like you wrote about LeBron, he is the answer to everything else. He's how you counter everything else. We're going to talk about Justin's masterpiece. Masterpiece. That's on the ringer. It's basically about the sort of.

of shadow LeBron is casting over a bunch of different Eastern Conference teams, specifically the Raptors and their plans for the summer. But, Powell, you have something about this Cavs Celtics series that's coming up. There's a couple of interesting questions from Twitter right now. One is from Daniel Lee, who says, with Stevens and more guys to throw out LeBron, how many games can Celtics extend Cavs, six game, seven games? That's one of the questions.

You guys have kind of talked about whether you think they can win or not. And then there's another one which is from Vivish Rag. I don't know, I can't say it. But what's the most interesting matchup for either the Celtics or, well, Celtics versus the Cavs in the next round? So between the lineups. Oh, in terms of lineups? Yeah, exactly. I would give Boston one, one game.

You think it's going to be Cavs in five? You think it's going to be that quick. Yeah. What's the matchup you're most curious to see? Hmm. Whoever Horford defense. Yeah. Is it Horford on Love or do they put Horford on LeBron more?

Yeah, where are they going to put him in love? Love had so much success in that last round. and we saw Zach Lowe's article today about the way he's able to play off of Kyle Corver and I wonder if that's going to be an advantage there. For me personally, I want to see if a lot of these wings that had so much success against Ben Simmons can do the same, at least to a certain extent, against LeBron.

It's going to be really ugly if they don't on both sides. Jalen Brown's hamstring never became too big of an issue here and he wound up scoring, what, 25, 27 tonight? He was widely the dagger all through this. Yeah, and every time the Sixers either were pulling away or getting back in it, it felt like he was there, with a dunk or a three, his health and his ability to stay in front of LeBron will be like probably one of the deciding factors if, you know, if they decide to play him against him. I don't know,

it's going to be really fascinating. I think that the Celtics are actually quite lucky to have home court advantage right now. They get a couple of days. They don't have to travel. Jalen can rest his leg a little bit. They can think about ways in which they want to scheme for the calves. But at the end of the day, like watching what just LeBron just did to the one seed. Yeah. It's like you don't really, like, I didn't, Bill said this the other day when we were talking, we were talking about him. And Bill was like, I didn't think LeBron still had it in him to ruin people. Like he can beat them, but it just looked like he was trying to essentially get dudes fired out there. And that is a killer instinct that I don't think we've seen in a while.

I think, you know, with Toronto, though, was also just a really bad matchup. They had no way to effectively defend that. It's too bad they didn't count on that happening. Yeah, I mean, they didn't have a way to defend Kevin Love. Whereas Boston, I mean, pulled up the matchup data, they had Al Horford on Kevin Love for the majority of the possessions. Right? So Al Horford, obviously, as we saw this series,

as an unbelievable defender, super versatile. And then they have Jalen Brown, Marcus Morris, even Shemi Ogelay, Marcus Smart, different guys to throw at LeBron James. And you're not stopping LeBron. Maybe for Boston it's more about containing LeBron. It's like, get your 40 and then stop everybody else. Stop Kevin Love.

Stop Kyle Culver. And they do have guys that contain those guys. I think that this series, actually might have a lot of really ugly games, or at least a couple, because if you think about it, think about the games where like, Corver can't hit,

J.R. Smith can't hit, Kevin loves off. And then you have all these guys on Boston where it's like, love him dearly, but sometimes Terry can't hit. Oh my God, Marcus Morris tonight. It's going to be a streaky series.

Yeah, you're right. Marcus Sark. Because the Cavs guys are so streaky too, like JR and everything. Yeah. I mean, you've seen when George Hill plays how much it makes a difference. I think it's just having somewhat of a reliable,

like, secondary shooter next to Kyle Corver on the court. there. And I do think, I'm starting to convince myself just a little bit based on what Kevin's saying that, like, why not the Celtics? Because their biggest asset is the defense. I don't think they'll win, but I could see it going longer than you think simply because of what we saw in this series. How many if you had to guess? Six? Yeah, I think six is possible. It could happen. You know who needs to have a big series, though? Again, Aaron Baines. Yeah. Because Tristan Thompson has killed the Celtics in their past two pro series and during the regular season. Thompson,

there's a vacuum on the boards and suddenly he's had his renaissance. Does Ty start Tristan or does he keep bringing him off the bench? Or like, at the end of the last series, he started bringing Tristan, he started Tristan. Well, he, yeah, well, Kevin Love stayed in the starting five. Yeah, that's right, okay. Thompson came off the bench more, but maybe if you're Boston, it's about shifting beans out of the starting lineup, bring him off the bench to match up with Thompson. Just a weird little sub, you know, matchup to watch for in the series.

And also, like, yes, the Celtics offense has been an issue throughout the season, especially once those guys, their all-stars went down, but the Cavs defense is not good. It was one of the worst, if not the worst, in the regular season, and they've been bad throughout the postseason. So I do wonder if, like, those things kind of balance each other out there. I'm going to find it all, like, I'm not in any way cheering for Boston, but it's going to be kind of, like, psychologically defeating if,

if LeBron just wipes them out. Right. And it's just like, it kind of just, like, calls into question what we're doing here, you know? Shut down the ringer. Falla, do you have any social questions before we get to this larger Eastern conference conversation? I have a social appearance by somebody at the podium. The first person up to the podium tonight was none other than Drew Bletsso. Right.

Let's talk about Drew Bloodso for just a three second. So, and Kevin, chime in whenever. Sure. Okay. Drew Bletso arrives at the arena with Terry Rozier tonight. Yes. As it's like Mr. T. Walking in Hulk Hogan or something, WrestleMania. Then is...

I completely get that reference. Wearing a Terry T-shirt before the game, right? Oh, I thought he walked in with a jersey. Did he not? Well, no, I think he undressed to reveal it, like Superman style. Did he rip the shirt? No, I think he was just, like, took a sweatshirt off,

and he was wearing a Terry Rozier jersey, and then he went like that. I don't know if you watch a lot of Super Bowl movies, but Superman rips. I do. I've been meeting to check some Superman later out. I've seen Avengers later. But this was like a... topic of debate within this office because I think me and a couple of other people were like, this is super corny. And Kevin was like, what a classic Boston sports moment. It's funny. It's goofy.

It's like for you, like, AJ Feely, suddenly for whatever reason. Had up three would go with T.J. McConnell and do fun. David Akers. How is this happening? Drew Bledso is at the podium. He's taking questions. Why is he doing this? This is my only problem with this is that that jersey is really small. You know, he likes a fitted look. Guess what he called Terry Rozier. He called him Terry Rose. All right.

So he can't even know Terry Rozier's name? Well, no, I choose to believe that he is doing a play on Derek Rose in his prime. Really? Really? Hey, guys, we will be back with more Ringer NBA show

after a quick word from our sponsors. Today's episode of the Ringer MBA show group chat is brought you by Microsoft Teams. Microsoft Teams is your hub for teamwork in Office 365. With so much to look after, wouldn't it be great if there was just one place to look? Teams is that single workspace where you can work, share, and connect with people in your work life. Teams brings together your chats, your meetings, your files, and apps all in one place, and you can take teamwork where you work with apps for mobile and desktop. So whether you're sprinting towards a deadline or sharing your

next big idea, Teams can help you and your team achieve even. in more. We at the Ringer love using teams when we're planning one of our big weekly projects like the superhero rankings or the NBA draft guide helps us keep everybody on the same page communicate with the different parts of the company, the website, the podcast, the videos. Teams is right there every step of the way to help us organize so we couldn't do it without Teams. Microsoft Teams in Office 365, visit office.com slash teams to learn more. Let's talk a little bit more broadly about the Eastern Conference while we're here. Justin wrote this really cool piece that's on this. site right now. That's very much, it was a very good piece. Thank you. And it's about

how LeBron basically isn't done torturing the Raptors just yet, even though he has done away with them, even though Dwayne Casey's job is teetering on the, in the balance. Dwayne Casey voted coach of the year by his fellow coaches. Franchise record wins. I'll be very curious to see if Dwayne Casey gets a job. Are there any other job? What? Another job? Like a job like right away. If he gets fired by the Raptors. I feel like it's going to be a situation where he has to go back to assistant coaching, but it will be possible for him to get a job again.

He was a defensive coordinator on a title team. Yeah. Well, in any case, he might lose his job. And now you've got the Raptors, and we can talk more about, like, their roster construction, but they've got the sort of quote-unquote big three of DeRosen, Lowry.

Don't put a block in there. I'm not going to put him in there as, like, talent-wise, but I think in terms of, like, salary, right? He's like their big three. Yeah. And do they blow it up? Do they tweak it? Do they see if Nick Nurse has yet another tactical wrinkle that he can add into this roster?

He's the one who's the one who tried and saw in the offense. Right. And he's been talked about as like the replacement coach. Or is LeBron's presence in the Eastern Conference so powerful that you basically punt until he's gone? I don't think you punt. I think that you grow for that. for example, like what the Sixers are doing right now. And it's not like they...

It's not like they planned this. Exactly. They just had to rebuild because they had to. But I think that if what I would be doing is like trying to get younger pieces in the hopes that he... Also, why don't you just wait if you're the Raptors to see what he does this off season?

He could very easily go to the West and you just blow it up for nothing. I just think it's funny one year ago we raised the Blow It Up question and like that it's like, you're nuts. The Raptors are so good. five top five team. Yeah. They still were.

Yeah. They still were this year. And so to me it's like, yeah, you blow it up if you get something that's worth it for DeRosen or Lowry. But if there's nothing that's worth it, then really these next two years, you're going to maximize them while also keeping an eye on that 2020 year when DeRosen and Lowry and Ibaka and all those guys are up. You're going to keep an eye on the future too while also thinking, okay, you know what,

these next two years, let's try to make it as best we can. Who do you think that would be a good? coaching substitute to get them there. I think Nick Nurse would be interesting. He's highly regarded across the league. I think just to interrupt here, but I think my take is that even if LeBron goes to the West, they just don't have the team built to win in the playoffs. I just think that wouldn't the psychological boost be incredible, though?

That would be like being on basketball ecstasy if LeBron left your conference. I mean, all the indicators suggest from the regular season that this is a really good team hiding underneath whatever goes on against LeBron. And you do wonder if he's not there if that's all they really need. Maybe they just need Nurse to play more of a role in the coaching huddles or whatever he would do differently with Casey out of there. But I don't know. At the same time, we're looking at two teams tonight who are going to be appreciably better next season. The Celtics are going to get both of their guys back, and they're going to have almost too much talent, whereas the Sixers have the potential to add another guy.

Maybe they steal LeBron from the cast. Let's talk about that. Yeah. I think Toronto, like, no matter what, they're probably not going to be the favorite. Like, there's no move that puts them over Boston or old Philadelphia. skepticism about them. They were like, fool me once, full me twice, full me five times. Like, no one's going to be, they'll be like

go ahead and win 65 games. No one's going to They seriously feel like the clippers to me. Yes. And you mentioned Lob City and all these other teams that have been Hardway, heat, like teams that have been impressive over the years that were like, is this is this the moment? You can hire like a fusion of like Vince Lombardi

and Greg Popovich as coach and it doesn't change the fact. Like, DeMarcois still can't shoot threes, still doesn't defend, still doesn't rebound. What we did, Vince Lombardi, Greg Popovich, between quarters, sideline interview, be like, because I want to, anyway, you'd be like, oh, you're going to give me some real knowledge jewels that are going to write down on a bar napkin, but on the other hand, it would just be like one word. Just worried about the next quarter.

Yeah, exactly. That would be, like, inspire me in, like, five words. Right. That's what it would be. So, LeBron now becomes this, like, which he always is, but just like it was in 2010, just like it was four years ago, he becomes the everybody waits to see what happens because clearly he's still operating at the height of his powers right what are some of the teams realistically and I know this is silly but like we have to talk about this because clearly it's the most important decision that's going to happen this summer what are some of the teams that have a realistic shot not outside of like I heard from a guy who saw a guy from clutch like looking at brimwood condos but like could sign him could use him LeBron might be interested

I think it's really educational to look at his past decisions. And you look at the heat, they didn't have a lot of young assets, but they did have the cap space, an incredible historic amount in order to sign three guys at his level. And then you look at what he did with the Cavs. He essentially set up the same thing where he had a younger support system to carry him back to the finals. And so I think if you're looking at teams,

you're looking at the ones that have the assets or the superstar already in place next to him. And the Lakers, maybe they don't want to have that guy, but Brandon Ingram has some talent and they also have enough young guys in order to maybe roll them into someone else. And obviously the cap space, potentially to get a Paul George

just right off the free agent market. Paul George, who had secret surgery, by the way. Not even that secret. IG surgery. It was just like, which isn't too concerning. I guess not. But like it was definitely like, so Paul George had surgery.

Yeah. And then, I mean, should we talk about the Sixers? Let's do it. Well, the Sixers, like you said, he wants to go somewhere with Cap Space. They have $25 million this off season. Without Rishon Holmes and T.J. McConnell, whose option they will definitely pick up after this series.

They're going to max them. TJ. I'm going to kid it. TJ. Can we bring back an early 2000s late 90s contract for T.J.? Like nine years. Nine years, no treat. He's the Bobby Boney's Jimmy for life.

Give you the Bobby Pobie and he a deal. Jordan's going to give him the money that Kauai wants. Yeah, I want to be paying like, T.J. McConnell's contract deep into the Ivanka administration. But he's like Detroit still playing, I'm still paying Josh Smith. Yeah, right. For two more years.

For two more years. For two seasons after this. Two seasons now. Yeah. Yeah. Currently, the ringer, the, we're not the Ringers Civil War. We just saw that.

That was Celtic Sixers. The Sixers fan base Civil War is to LeBron or not two LeBron. Well, you guys talked about this earlier in the year. Yeah. And I think that we saw both in the, in the Heat series, I was like, get that guy out of here. We don't need LeBron. And here I'm like, we could really use LeBron.

We win that series. What does Ben Simmons do? I don't know. If you have LeBron on the floor. We just spent the first 15 minutes of this pond and trying to figure out what he does with T.J. McConnell on the floor. So what happens when he has LeBron on the floor? Yeah, LeBron is amazing at literally everything except for like three-point shooting. He's like average to above average. And so if you're going to add anyone else to what they have now, that like it doesn't seem to make sense on paper. Unless it's in the last second of a very crucial playoff game. And he only has one arm. Then he's really good at three-point shooting.

All right, let me put it this way. LeBron James, pretty much automatic finals contender, right? Sure. But could derail the natural progression of Ben Simmons for the next five years. But next season, is he in automatic finals? Are you saying Eastern Conference Finals? Because Boston's going to have back Kyrie and Gordon.

Well, that's a great moment. This is a conversation we'll have all summer. Yeah. But just for the hypothetical. It's LeBron with the possibility that you take the ball out of Ben Simmons' hand. Right, and what does he do when you take the ball out of his hands? Don't know. Can I play devil's advocate here?

What if it helps Ben Simmons? What if taking the ball out of Ben Simmons's hands teaches him how to play off ball, how to be used as a screener, how to cut? Maybe he's forced to learn how to shoot. And then when LeBron's gone in two, three, four years, Ben Simmons is the face of the NBA. He is the best player in the league. Do you think he wants to wait?

I don't know. You'd be like, we just saw, like, we just... Joel might not want him either. And Joe Lowe might not want him, so that's door number one is LeBron and the Sixers, but with all the ramifications that come with that. Door number two is replacing Covington's minutes with Paul George's. I don't think Paul George's going. Let's just put it like, Paul, let's just...

Like leaving. I mean, I don't think he's going to Philadelphia. Oh, I thought you meant. Yeah, is lovely in the spring. Did I ever mention that? How's the trade for Kauai? Fine. So let's see your Kauai trade.

Yeah, do we, do we have a graphic for that? I don't think so, but like, we, We can visualize. Yeah, the trade was something along the lines of like Robert Covington, Mark Hill Fultz, the Lakers pick they have this year, maybe Darrow if they demand it, two draft and stashes, maybe a future pick, and then Jared Bailas's filler contract.

So you're giving up a lot. But by doing that deal, theoretically, you could retain max cap space, get Kauai Leonard, and still re-signed JJ Reddick and bring back to the game of God. I'm just saying. So it's like, even if you don't get a guy this summer,

or LeBron, next summer, you could still retain that max cap space, go after Clay Thompson, Jimmy Butler, and so on and so forth. And that's the thing with the Sixers. Like, why do they have to cash everything in right now? It's the same thing we're saying about them in this postseason. Maybe we're thinking so far ahead. But if they're just patient, they can wait and just assemble a super team that can knock out all of these teams.

Palo, did you have some judge for us? Yeah, some questions. So I think it's interesting to transition into the question to think about, so David Griffin was on Bill's pod today. Yes. And he said that he doesn't think, that he thinks for LeBron, it's not so much about where is the,

who has the best roster, who has the best team that I could go to. It's like, I'm, it's kind of what you were saying. Like, I'm an automatic, like,

almost finals birth. Like, I bring so much to the table that it's just about where I want the final part of my legacy to be. Yes. And so to tying into the question, which is by Drake, on Twitter at Drake.

By Drake? That is the guy. Drake. By trade. Yeah, Drake is asking about LeBron. At Toronto OBO. Well, actually, the question could be by Drake's burner account

because it's would LeBron ever leave the East? Yes. Yeah. 100%. And there is an entire, like, all of this, like, Easter Conference Fantasy stuff,

like if you had to choose between living in Cleveland or Philadelphia, wouldn't you choose Los Angeles? Yeah. Yeah. I think he should leave the East. Yeah.

I think that he should take the tougher challenge. Go West because, like, look, everybody's like, oh, it's an easier path on the East. It's like, an easier path that you'll get just wiped out in the finals. But if you go west and you're able to build a team that can actually beat Houston or Golden State or maybe you're on Houston, go there.

Yeah, they guess what you get an easier Eastern Conference finals matchup potentially. And at the same time, if we're looking at two, three years down the road when maybe his age-induced decline actually hits him, maybe the Sixers and the Sixers and the Celtics are way more imposing than the Warriors who would probably now be dealing with the cap issues, the Rockets, like who knows what Chris is. Paul would be at that point. All right, well, let's talk about the Western Conference then, since we're kind of, we're circling that anyway. We get the matchup that we've been looking for all season long. All the hypotheticals about did the Rockets build a team to finally beat the Hamptons 5?

We're gonna find out now. There's like, I don't know if you saw this, but on Twitter there's like some debate about how like, there is a school of thought that this is not even a series that the Warriors are just gonna like completely wipe these guys out. Have you seen that? Yes. It's like some major stuff or like some Atlanta,

It's basically like the warriors are going to run them out of the gym. I can't remember where I saw it. A lot of Golden State and Five picks on Twitter, it seems. How do you feel about that? I think it's silly. I mean, it's underrating Houston. I think it's going to be a really, really good series either way. I think it goes seven.

But look, like Golden State and Five, I just don't see it. Houston's offense is potent as everybody knows. Slim thugs in the control room. But their defense, they have a lot of guys. We talked about Boston earlier, how versatile they are. Houston is the same way with the guys that they have on their roster, led by PJ Tucker, Trevor Areza, and so on. A lot of good defenders on that team.

I was telling Danny Chow after... Was he sobbing, looking at him stuffed Dinosaur while you were telling him this? We were watching the Rockets game. So, yeah, he was basically still sobbing. But I was telling him that I am not as excited for the series as I was maybe entering the season, assuming that it would be the Western Commerce Finals,

because Hardin's kind of bummed me out. He's been great sometimes, but he's also been like really scary and kind of how he was last season when he looked like he had a concussion or was on Xanax or something. Like, so... That's okay.

It's a safe space. This is between us and all our friends. Just between us. But I was kind of bummed about it and I wasn't really sure that it would be as great as I thought it would be and this amazing like three-pointer for three-pointer. But he did point out to me that the lost differentials,

so when both teams lost, the average was bigger for the Warriors. So they lost by more each game. So he's hopeful, but I'm still nervous because when Houston isn't making shots and it kind of gets really ugly and it's just two guys doing isolation. I'm kind of excited to watch the other guy here, though, of those two guys. Oh, for sure.

I never seen Chris Paul in a conference finals. Yeah. This is what he wants Houston exactly to do. And I'm, he still has flashes and is still, like God said, has the potential to be that kind of transformational guard that you're just like, I can't believe how lucky I am to be watching him. Plus he's hyped up. And he's got to be as dialed in as he's ever been.

I mean, as a fan, I want this to be the clash of styles and just top-level teams that we thought it was going to be, simply because we've seen the warriors engage in spurs. some of the Hampton 5 lineups, some of the deaf lineups that they've been able to throw out there. But it's only been when necessary, even in game three in New Orleans, they threw out Javelle starting for some reason, almost as if to challenge themselves. The challenge themselves or just like to try things in order for like maybe the next season or the next series. And so I really want this to be everything we expect because a Warriors team that's pushed gives us the best basketball we can watch.

Houston has to come out and win that first game. I feel like their whole season was based around getting that one seed. Mike Dantonia was like, forget rest. Like you rest when you're dead. Let's go. Let's go. Let's get the one seat. You want to play game seven at home.

They have to keep that home court advantage. Did you have a Western Conference thing for us? I do. Well, first of all, I want to say that personally, I don't think I would be that surprised if the Warriors swept because I... Hear me out. Hear me out. Hear me out.

Here me out. Here me out. Here we go. All right. So I think that the Warriors season, starts Monday. Like, they have not been playing for anything this entire time. They haven't, like, experienced, quote-unquote adversity at any point. Like, they've literally been building up to responding to the Rockets challenge them. So this is when they're actually going to be,

like, fully engaged and fully going. And I think that nobody can beat that team. And so, like, if you're going to tell me that they're going to win four games against the Rockets by just running them off the floor, I wouldn't be that surprised. See, but, like, fucking around is kind of like in their DNA. It's like what... It is now. Yeah, but like... That's what I'm saying. I don't think it's going to be that way. Yeah, but I think, like, that's what makes them good. And when it goes wrong, that's how they end up losing games.

And so I think it, like, is priced into every game that they have. We're like, like, what games? Like, what games do they lose, right? Like, well, they lost one to the spurs. Yeah. Which isn't the great in retrospect. It was just the same issue, though. It was like they came out and they were, like, very passive.

And it, I don't want to say they didn't take it seriously. It's a playoff game. But it just looked like the other team. had so much more energy. Even last night, late in the game, the Pelicans has so much energy. Dremont was really keyed up now, which is usually pretty good predicted.

Dremont is literally the one getting everyone going when no one else will go. Which we were sort of waiting for. I don't know, I don't think that it's going to be a sweep and I definitely really, really, really think we deserve a great series. Like a great, great, what? We are gonna get one. Yeah, I hope so.

We got a team that's built to take down Gold State. Like, sure they lost one of the Spurs, sure they lost one of the New Orleans. Well, now they're going against a team that was built. to defend that team. Houston was constructed to beat Golden State. Okay, so we're talking about roster construction. Then, like, we talked about this for Cleveland and Boston.

What's the matchup you're most excited to see? I think it's really the amount of guys that they throw at Kevin Durant more than anything else. And I'm also curious, how are they going to use Clint Capella? I mean, is Golden State going to put, like, Javelle McGee in there to match up against him, or are they going to go with their Hampton's 5, and it's going to be Draymond? Do you put Clint Capella on Draymond and have them roam around?

and help on other guys, or do you maybe put him on KD a little bit to get a little creative? I think what they do with Capella and then their wings slash forward defenders is going to be really interesting. I mean the Chris Paul matchup, presumably he's going to be guarding Steph most likely. And I do wonder, and engaged Chris Paul on the verge of breaking into the finals for the first time. I do wonder what type of guy we're going to see that. And also for Golden State, you've got to seek out James Hardin because he was really bad in that Utah series defensively. Like you mentioned earlier, Haley, how he seems fatigued. I think so, too.

And I think that could end up being the story of the series if Houston, if it doesn't go well for Houston, like, hard and tired. People are going to call it choking, but it might be more like just conditioning. It's just not there. The nicest thing they'll say about it is choking. What do you think is interesting about that? I'm saying with Chris Paul. Yeah.

Because of that, but also because of what we mentioned earlier, he is probably going to be the most intense we've ever seen him. I hope so. And a chippy Chris Paul versus hopefully and, like very on Steph Curry will be very fun. I'm going Mike versus Steve. I'm curious to see you talked about throwing Javail out there. Like Steve Kerr will mess around with you.

Went down a little bit. You think so? Yeah. Steve Kerr stock? Because everyone was so shocked that he did that. And honestly then in the end, he put out the Hampton's Five lineup. And everyone was like, well, yeah,

now he's decided that he wants to end it now. Why wouldn't they just decided last game? Can we get a lower third just saying, O'Shaughnessy sells her stock? I was going to be selling. I'll buy it too. Because I was going to say the exact opposite. I was going to say that Dantone played his guys down the stretch to keep the one seed

and make sure Hardin was far and away the MVP. And now they're in the playoffs. And a lot of people say about Dantone is he's like, you beat me playing my thing. I don't adjust to you. Everything you just mentioned about the regular season is something Kerr did. What? It took them to a...

Push these guys. Right. them to a record season, and then who won the MVP that year? Last season? Yeah. Russell Westbrook? Oh. This is slayness.

Are you talking about two years ago with Steph? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know. I just think that Dantone has gotten punked more than Kerr has in playoff series,

I think. I just think Kerr has gone full pop at this point. And so, like, he's willing to try things, and he's a little more loose than... Yeah, he's like, you guys draw up the plays. Well, the best have class outside. He has more in his arsenal. Right, but even when the game is clearly a loss, he's willing to punt like earlier than most teams,

which is why I wonder if you're looking at those margin of victories, maybe it's just because Kerr messes around just like his team does. I'm really interested. Okay, so let's go quick predictions. We're going to say Cavs Boston. I'm going to say Cavs and six. Cavs in six. I think I already said five.

I'm standing by that. I'll go Cavs and seven. LeBron ridding the guard. of his ghosts. Powell, what do you think? I'm going to say Cabson 6. Do you have a question for us, by the way? Yeah.

So off of the Warriors' Golden State question, Brown Sugar at Dean Jones MFs asks, are the Western Conference Finals effectively the finals this year? Yes. Or do the Cavs or the Celtics have a chance against Golden State? I would have said that three years ago.

And they weren't. We wait our entire year for the finals matchup. I don't want to just automatically assume that it's not going to matter. Are we all picking the Warrior? Do we get two finals? Like is it really two finals? Like we get Houston and then it's like That's the very nice way to look at it because the other way to look at it is we just spent eight months to do Caps Warriors. Yeah, right. Right.

What do you think for the Western Conference? Houston. Houston. Ooh. Wow, really? I'm just sticking with my pre-playoff predictions, to be honest. Yeah, I flipped back and forth a lot, but I'm going to Warriors at this point. Okay. You definitely dobs, right? Yeah, Warriors. Follow dubs sweep. Dubs in four. Okay. Yeah. I'm going to go dubs. In six. Yeah, same. All right. Well, let's wrap it up there for Justin, Kevin, Haley, Palo, Keith, Chris, the squad in the back.

Thank you very much for joining NBA group chat. We'll be back next week. Leave in TJ. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.