The Ringer NBA Show - Season Start Date Negotiations Are Heating Up. Plus: Most Intriguing Players of the Week. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 3, 2020

Verno and KOC discuss the developments in the debate over the start of the 2020-21 NBA season (1:00), then get into their intriguing free agents, returning players, and draft prospects of the week (15:50). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Kevin O'Connor on today's episode of the mismatch. Chris Vernon and I discussed the latest news about next season's start date. We also hit on some players that we're watching out for in free agency, possible trades, as well as two draft prospects that we got our eye on. All that next. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Varnay and joining me. He does every Tuesday for the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

a.k.K. Kevin O'O.comber. Kevin O'Compick, Kevin O'Compter, Kevin O'Candiland. Kevin O candidate. Hello. What's going on? Good luck. Good luck today. You're on a lot of ballots.

I feel like I'm only three or four different ballots across the United States. Yep. The legal marijuana party in Minnesota. I'm a Republican in Massachusetts. I feel like someone else tweeted me today with one I hadn't seen before. I'm not sure of the state, but I was running somewhere else as well. So who knows? Who knows?

Maybe if people like you enough, then those other guys will benefit from that. They'll be like, hey, I know a guy named Kevin O'Connor. I didn't know there were so many Kevin O'Connor's, especially in politics. It's wild from all across different parties too. All across. Well, I am. Hopefully this will give people a brief respite from all the stress that is going on throughout our country, as it is Election Day. and we are just going to talk some basketball.

So hopefully everybody could get a little bit of an escape. The biggest news, Kev, by a wide margin, is that we don't know when our next season is going to start in the NBA. No, we don't. And it appears as if this needs to be done by Friday. And I read the article by Adrian Wartanowski and Zach Lowe. Some of it very, very interesting. Two of the big things that stood out to me,

were obviously what we thought, which was the players not crazy about it starting. Then by December 22nd, with that, there is the financial reality that not starting at that time could cost a fortune. You have ability to try to make some extra money through partnerships with gambling, through partnerships with casinos, etc. but they are talking about a billion dollars in losses by not starting in December. Now, we don't know if that is true or not. And so I am left thinking, if this is the financial reality of all of it, then you just figure it out and you start playing at the end of December,

even if your players association at the beginning says, hey, we don't really want to do that. Like, it is what it is. On the other hand, is there a happy medium that they can come to. Is this a either they're starting on December 22nd or they're starting on Martin Luther King Day? Is there something between

there and an amount of games between there, right? I read that and I go, what about if they played 62? And they're giving up 25% of their salary in escrow rather than, because it feels like they're either giving up 10% in escrow

or like 40% in escrow. Is there a medium in games, start time, money that can be met or is this a either or? I mean, it's certainly, it's certainly a public negotiation that we're seeing here. And from some of the conversations I've had with people, you know, who work for teams, they mostly tend to side on we should start in December because you know you're going to lose a lot. If you push it past Christmas and you don't get those Christmas days in from the broad craft,

from the broadcasting rights money that you would receive. And for the players union, you know, I mean, I think it's understandable why players would want more time off. I'd love to have more time off. But also what's probably best for the league is to start in December just despite the short start because it's not just the start time, you know, December 22nd or MLK Day weekend. It's the fact that if you do start late, you're pushing the finals into the Olympics. And that could be disastrous from a ratings perspective, from an interest perspective. from an engagement perspective, whatever metric you want to use once the Olympics start, and not just here in the United States, but around the world too. And obviously the NBA has a large global footprint that is significant to them.

And waiting for the Olympics would have significant risk. And oh, by the way, there are players that also would like to be finished by the Olympics because they want to play in the Olympics. Well, so when they say like a 70 game or 72 game season, and then the other option is they don't want to do that. They don't want to push it all the way through. So then they floated 50 games that if you started then, that it'd be 50. What I'm saying is, can we do 60?

You know what I mean? It's somewhere in between. Is that what we're trying to get to here? Less days off. You know, sort of like the 66 game lockout short and season we had back in 2011. Right. Is this an either or? Is this?

No, it's a negotiation. It's like, it's like here's one proposal. Here's another proposal. Then they find somewhere to meet. But we haven't found. There haven't been any middle. It's either like you play 70 games. and you start in December, you play 50 games and you start in January.

Well, like, how about we split the difference here? Is that what we're trying to get to? I don't know. Yeah, I mean, well, as, you know, Zach and Woage reported in their article, they're also trying to find other guidelines for sports betting, alcohol, casinos to generate more money for teams. And it feels like these are the types of things they're trying to do around the margins to try to earn more and get back what's going to be lost anyway.

But ultimately, the NBA's goal from the. NBA perspective is simply get back on track for an October start in 2021 and get back on the normal track. And the way to do that is by starting in December. Originally, the idea was starting in March or February because higher likelihood of getting fans in arenas. But I do think, you know, the lower ratings competing against the NFL, the MLB playoffs, everything else did really minimize the the interest around the league, including from people that previously did have interest in it, to do that. And for the players union, I do wonder if they will come around to just, you know what,

got to start in December, got to get the Christmas days in. It's better to put the health of the league long term. But we'll see, man, this is certainly a public negotiation. And if they are willing to take a hit in January, maybe next season could start in November instead. And then to slowly move back to an October track rather than happening immediately in 21. That gambling thing is interesting because, as you know, I'm in Memphis and on Sunday, you've got a partnership now, right? Sports gambling became legal in Tennessee. And immediately the Memphis Grizzlies announced a partnership with Fandle.

They are going to be a presenting sponsor of the broadcasts. There's like a promo code you can enter, you know, in order to sign up. And so you see these, you see these franchises even on a local level, obviously. going all in and getting very involved with sports books in the in the places where it is becoming legal and clearly over time this is going to become extremely widespread but i was fascinated to read that about the league as a whole and the amount of money and the partnerships that they can garner from that one basketball thing regarding these negotiations stood out to me the most which i'm going to tell you i don't think that we have talked about

this before. I had not heard this before, but it was in Adrian and Zach's article. And I love it. And that is how they do the play in. Oh, we talked about this last year. This is like a year ago. This is the one that was pitched originally. It was? Yeah, this is the one. Wait, where the, where is the seven and eight play? Yeah, this is the one that was from a year ago. I thought that was seven and ten play. There was different variations. there's like one with seven and ten, one with seven and eight. There's, there's a whole bunch of combinations. I like this seven and eight play, but then an eight and then nine and ten play. The loser of seven and eight, yeah.

Yeah, loser of seven and eight has to lose again. I like that. I think that's a good variation. I mean, obviously this last thing worked well. Just to outline it real quick, basically like the seven and eight would face each other. Yeah. The playing tournament, seven and eight would face each other. The seven, if they win, they're in.

Then the loser, eight would face the nine or. 10. Like I said, there's a whole bunch of different variations of this that they could toss around and make work. But the counter argument is, are you penalizing the seven seed too much? You know, Dallas would have been the seven seed this year when they have games ahead of other teams. Should they be penalized and have to play in the tournament? To me, you know, they got to lose twice, though. There's, yeah, they got to lose twice, but there's also two ways to look at this. You could all, you could do the thing they did this year where the, the nine seed has to be or the 10 seed has to be within a certain amount of games in order for there to be a playing

game or you could look at it like this if that seven seed needs a fight for their life to get the six seed and the six seed needs to fight for their life to avoid the seven seed and getting out of the playing tournament that is one of those factors that makes the end of the season more important i love this i love and and and to me that's where the greatest interest is where that's six seven fighting over that and that makes the end of the season matter where teams are aren't, you know, trying to get playoff positioning and they're not tanking games to get the seven seed instead of the two seed. To me, it's more exciting this way. And I'm a big fan of the playing tournament and think they should, I'm glad they're trying to install it permanently. It's great.

And Kev, this is how, look, you get to, you know, I come by this honest because the playing tournament did not work out for the Grizzlies. It just didn't work out. And yet I still loved it. It's totally fair. If you lose twice, you don't have anybody to. to blame but yourself. That's it. That's the truth. If you lose twice, like, if you blow it, then so be it. I don't care about that. Like, if the seventh seed, if they lose to the 10 seed, and then they turn around and lose to the 9 seed too, like, who's feeling sorry for them? Yeah. Like, you can't feel sorry for them. Like, all you have to do is win to prove that you deserve this spot. And, you know, when you get to the end of the season, sometimes these teams can get

injured. I know that sucks, but you know, you might have been really, really good, but then your best player went down. And so now you're the seven or eight seat. It will eliminate somebody getting bombed out in the first round if they're really not good anymore, right? I mean, there are teams that that happens to where they get a rash of injuries, but they had won, they had piled up so many wins that they're still holding on to the eight seed, but everybody knows they got no, they would not be a playoff team as they're currently constructed. And so it kind of, it helps that too, right? With the, with the teams that could be banged up or not the version of themselves that would have been in the playoffs, you know, if we played it out from that point.

So I like that. I do. I really like that. And to me, like that is something that drives excitement and it drives interest for teams that might otherwise be out of it. It keeps more fans engaged. And from an entertainment standpoint, whether someone, you know, feels like the seven seat. might be getting screwed or not, I think overall, overall, it's a positive for the league as a whole. Here's hoping that we get news by Friday.

Here's hoping the collective bargaining agreement doesn't get blown up. It seems like everybody's positive that they can come to some kind of agreement. I mean, I do think the players have the wisdom to know. Look, you're in a business where it's a 50-50 revenue split. the truth of the matter is the revenue is not there. It's not there. So we got to figure this out, right? Like, I mean, they've got, they have a really good deal when it comes to the partnership that they have with the MBA.

And I think that's why unlike other leagues, there has been much less in fighting and labor strife, you know, and you don't see it, you don't see it coming out in the public nearly as bad. But the other thing is, it seems like Michelle Roberts and Adam Silver have a good relationship, and they're both cool-headed individuals that aren't out in the media prodding and poking each other to make each other look bad, which then gets egos involved and everybody gets pissed off at each other and then you've got a big problem on your hands. Yeah, I mean, this week is obviously a huge one for the NBA. They're against the clock here and getting this done to have a December start. And bottom line for me, you know, my basic thought here is I'm not quite sure that that month is worth the potential losses for the players.

And, you know, whether you're a middle class player or you're a max player, whatever level player you are in the league, to me, it feels like maybe the short start, which isn't really a short off season for most teams. The far majority of teams have been off for quite some time. Nearly half of the league hasn't played since March. many others, including your gris, since mid-August, that's a lot of time off for the majority of the league. To me, there's a lot to lose by pushing to the January start based off everything that we know and basically based on everything we understand now.

Seems like the December 22nd start is for the best for the long-term health financially of the league. So as we do away the season, as we're in the off-season, last week we chronicled three different players, a returning player or a player that's under contract, a free agent this offseason and a draft pick. And then we discussed three of those that we each picked. We will do that once again after these words.

All right, Kevin, what do you want to start with? You want to start with the free agent? Let's start with the free agent. Let's start with the free agent. You take this one first, Chris. All right, a free agent that intrigues me. And I went with a big name this week because I don't know if anyone had their perception of who they are as a player change as much during the time in the bubble as the guy that will be the reigning six man of the year in the NBA, Montrez Harrell.

Like, I feel like whatever his stock was when this season broke. And then obviously people thought highly enough of him that they voted him, the six-man. end of the year of the NBA. He averaged almost 19 points a game. He was, I believe, 42nd in the NBA in scoring. He averaged seven rebounds a game. He was 32nd in the

NBA in rebounding. And this is a guy that's coming off the bench. Face up game got a lot better. A lot of great articles written about him. And this is a guy that got, his usage rate went up despite the fact that they added Kauai Leonard

and Paul George. And he, he, was admittedly awesome all throughout the season. And then he was a shell of himself in that bubble. He ends up averaging 10 points, three rebounds. He is just nothing like he was during the regular season. But that is the lasting memory. You know, he went the tragic passing of his grandmother. He left the bubble. He came back. He just, he never had the athleticism. He never had that. hustle and that energy that he brought to the table, like all, all that was Montres Harold and how great he was and how much I thought he was going to be such a highly sought

after free agent that all seemingly evaporated during the bubble. And so now, man, I don't know. I really don't know where he lands on the scale of what kind of money are you investing in him, you know, how much does he move the needle? I will tell you, the Montres Herald that played during the season moves the needle in a massive way. The Montres Herald that played in the bubble doesn't move the needle at all. And so what do I make of this? Has he become a mid-level player around 9.2 million?

Mid-level? No. Is that what he's become? He was six-man of the year. I know. I know. I know. No.

I mean, look, I would say the absolute lowest is 15 to 20. Well, look at the teams that have more than the mid-level available. Atlanta, New York, Detroit, Miami, Charlotte, Phoenix. Which of those teams is giving him more than the 9.3 million? The Knicks? Maybe, or maybe not. Seems like a Tibidot guy.

Maybe the pistons, if they were to lose a Christian would. They attempt to replace him if Wood signed elsewhere. I don't think the heat would. I don't think the Hornets would, especially because we know they have interest in James Wiseman. I reported today. They have interest in our Yake-O-Kongwu, the USC Center, if they stay at number three. And I don't think Phoenix would either. I don't love the fit with Harold next to DeAndre Aiton.

You don't? No, I don't. Because I'd rather have a big hookahun space the floor like a Christian would. But ultimately, Atlanta, I mean, they just trade for Capella. They have, you know, John Collins. they have other bigs in their team. Nix. I mean, I'm not sure what the market is.

And that's why I think there's a good chance of Montres can be signed and trade. And then that bolsters a clippers. That's always the path we can go here where it's a team that doesn't have cap space that signs and trade for him. Yeah. And then that actually helps the clippers out. The clippers don't let him just walk for nothing. Exactly. They do this sign and trade.

So they actually bolster their team. And so that's why. He becomes so intriguing. I think he becomes a huge piece in this free agency beyond just the team that goes out and signs him. How much does he enable the clippers to get better? Or do the clippers run it back with him? That's a crazy thing.

He's a good player. We shouldn't overreact to one poor stretch. Really good. He's really good. And the guy that I have on my list that's intriguing to me as a free agent is Joe Harris. The Nets Guard, Joe Harris has shot over 40, percent from three in his career. He's one of the league's better shooters off of screens, off of

handoffs, a smart cutter, a reliable defender. To me, I look at those teams with cap space. Atlanta, I'd love him next to Trey Young. The Knicks, I'd love to have him as a building block on the team as another young piece. The Pistons, again, another young player that would fit into them. The heat probably don't need him and they're probably saving cap space anyway. Charlotte, I like the fit. Phoenix, I like the fit. A lot of teams that have money, I'd have interest in spending on Joe Harris to bring in and help be a real glue guy on the team as a shooter

and as a reliable defender, a good decision maker. He's just one of those guys that can fit next to star players. And that's why for the Nets, it's important they keep them. Because Katie and Karee could really use a guy like Joe Harris spacing the floor and coming off screens. Yeah, what was that number that I gave out last week about Gallinari? He actually fit in that. Let me see if I could find it.

it was, yeah, Harris is in that group, one of four guys that shot 40% on over 300 attempts from three. It's really good, man. In the last couple of years. And so it just speaks to how rare it is for a guy to shoot that volume from that range and be able to make that volume from that range. You're right? And he's not a, and he's not like a total one-trick pony, right?

This isn't like, no, he's not just a spot-up shooter. He could come off screens. He can cut. You can use them on handoff actions, solid defender. I mean, we saw the value in some of these shooting players, you know, whether it's a Duncan Robinson or a Tyler here we saw with Miami or others throughout the league. And what in terms of what they can do when they're given space and when they're given opportunity playing off of stars.

Well, and it's him, Bertons and Gallo, and they're all free agents. Mm-hmm. There's some good shooters. If you need somebody that can bank threes, that's these three guys. I mean, they're all available. And there's another one. And that is my player under contract that intrigues me greatly this off season. And that is Buddy Healed.

Buddy. Buddy He has been pissed off all year. He was pissed off when he signed his contract. And then got more pissed off as the season went on. he went from not playing in crunch time to then coming off the bench. Now, in fairness to Luke Walton, their record was better with him coming off the bench. But he was a sour puss the whole year. And then that didn't go away in the bubble.

Now, he's averaged over the last four seasons, 20 points a game, five rebounds, 2.7 assists. He shot 41% from three. he is going to start the first year of a four-year $86 million contract. And it could be up to $100 million with incentives. Some of those incentives are totally reachable, like three-point incentives, others which are like they get to the Western finals, they get to the NBA finals. Those are probably not incentives that he's going to hit.

I think it's fair to say. That being said, very strong. sought after amongst NBA teams. Now, they have totally new management there. So that old regime that he was pissed off about, I know he's still pissed, you know, sympatico with his coach, but Buddy Divac's not there anymore, right?

And so now they've got a new guy, and you've got a big decision to make because you're about to have to pay a fortune for Bogdanovich if you want to bring him back. And you're not going to be, you're not going to pay a fortune for McDonovic and a fortune for Buddy. He'll something's got to give here.

The other thing is about two weeks ago, there was one of these reports that came out, Sixers interested in trading for Buddy Heald. And I saw where he was like liking Instagram posts about him. You know, like, it's just something's got to give here. You know what I mean? Like, and if I'm them, I bring back Bogdanovich, right? I get rid of the guy that's been a malcontent, let him go get a fresh start somewhere else. and just wipe my hands of it

and let somebody else, you know, deal with it. And I do bring back Bogdanovich. What do you think? Buddy Healed feels like one of those guys and if he goes to a contender could pop. Oh, for sure. You know, when you put him into his ideal role as a guy playing off of stars,

I mean, to me, that's like a card that you would go out and try to get now. I have, I have coveted him in Memphis. you have any buddy healed cards chris buddy buddy buddy buddy healed PSA 10s but the crazy the crazy thing is I went back and looked at buddy healed they got his wrong birthday on him so those are even more rare his rookies don't even say his right birthday but all serious with buddy though like he it seems like he took a little bit of a step back this past season obviously not a great situation for him and he wasn't happy.

But overall, though, so one of the best shooters in basketball. What do you do? Put him next to stars. He could be unleashed. Do you just try to quell him? Do you try to say, hey, man, let's work this out and pay Bogdanovich and then you figure it out after the season starts? Just so you've got both assets.

Yeah. I mean, to me, like, that's what I'd prefer to do. But it depends on what else is out there. What are opportunities are out there? What can I get from a team that has interest in trading for him? And we don't know all that. but I certainly would have interest

of Buddy Healed if I'm an NBA GM because you're close to the Fox contract getting close you're getting close on that right kick that's that will start 21 22 right

right around the corner so you're really close on the Fox contract so now what how do you know what I mean and does that help or hurt that cause you know what I mean

because you don't want a disgruntled guy you don't want people thinking geez man I'm wasting four or five years of my career doing this. Right? You want to start building around. And I don't know how Fox feels about the whole thing. And by the way, that probably plays into your thinking. You're talking to Fox and being like, hey, you know, what do you feel about buddy? Like, what's your relationship like with buddy? What do you think of you know, what was he like in the locker room last year? How, how was he with his teammates? Does he

seem driven to win or is he focused on himself? And that's where you get the feedback from your, your star, your best young player, the guy you want to build around. And that can help inform the decision that you make because, you know, from us, you know, sitting here not being in that locker room with them and all that, it's hard to tell. But that all plays into it. That plays into it. I tell you this, man, I have always had a soft spot because I loved him in college. I loved watching him in Oklahoma. And he got better every year in college. It was an awesome journey. I saw him playing person while I was there. And then just two years ago, Sacramento came and played a game. And I happened to be over in the arena. They had can't.

like they had flown in the night before. They had canceled their shootarounds and everything for a game day. Buddy Healed was out on the court at FedEx Forum at like 10 in the morning. He's a worker. By himself for two hours. He's a worker. And I'm like, yo, give me this guy. Give me this guy.

By himself. I'm not, nobody rebounding for him. No other players on the team. It's like they had canceled shoot around. It didn't matter. He was out there, sweating his ass off for two hours, just trying to get better.

And it was like, jeetting. That's what he was at Oklahoma. Yeah. He worked. He got better and proved his weaknesses, improved his shooting, improved his ball handling, improved his body. And that's happened in the NBA, too, after a slow start with New Orleans. You know, look, the Pelicans, I'm sorry, the Kings did hire Elvin Gentry to be an assistant

there. And he had Gentry in New Orleans as a young player. Maybe that could help things. Maybe a conversation between Gentry and healed. I don't know the nature of their relationship, but maybe something like that can help. because if you're the Kings, unless you're getting something back that you know is good, trading healed could come back to bite you down the line. Because like I said, a guy like him, somebody who with a personality, like he is so hungry for Ws,

that guy wants to win. He's a winner. If he goes to a situation in which he's winning and competing at a high level and maybe going, you know, with championship aspirations, you're going to see him rise and you're going to see him be a guy that people look around the league at him and view him as a, it is an impactful player like he was for the Sooners in college. Do you think, do you think somebody comes out

that it's restricted free agency? Do you think somebody comes out and just throws a massive bag at Bogdanovich? I mean, I sort of feel the same way about Bogdanovich. I think he, that's what it gets super dicey, right? It's a full, because Heald's got a four year. You know, I mentioned Atlanta for Joe Harris.

How about Atlanta for Bogdanovich? Another fit that works. But it's a four year 88. or I'm sorry, four year 86 for Buddy Heel. To Katie barred the door if you if you have to match an offer for more than that for Bogdanovich. I mean, you'd figure he probably gets four and 70, right? I mean, that's 17 and a half a year. You figure he probably gets at least that.

Bogdanovich is another guy. I mean, almost everything I said about Buddy. I know. I think can be said about Bogdanovich because he's another guy. That dude, ever since he's been playing over his seas has been draining game winner. that dude is a gamer. He plays hard. And he's a little bit of a better passer than Buddy too.

He can do a little bit more off the dribble as a creating for others. He's not, he's not, but the thing is he's not an elite shooter like Buddy is. Buddy is a top level shooter. Bogdanovich is a very, very good shooter. So that's the difference between those two guys.

It's crazy is they can both be starting shooting guards on awesome teams. Yeah. And somehow they're on a crappy team. You figure it out. You know what I'm saying? But like either any, either of those guys could be the starting, you'd feel great about them being your starting shooting guard

and your team can be really, really good. You know, like they could be starting shooting guards on contenders. And it's like, okay, they got both of these guys. And they obviously can't start them both.

All right. Who's your returning player that intrigues you? How about Drew Holiday? Pelicans Guard, one of the best defensive guards in the league, very, very good on the office. offensive end of the floor. They're in an interesting situation.

They're one of the many teams looking to trade up from the late lottery. I can't imagine that they would want a package holiday with their pick to move up. But, you know, maybe you would be open to trading him for something out there. Maybe not in the draft, but maybe another player, somebody who fits your timeline. With Holiday, maybe you do want to find somebody a bit younger that fits the trajectory than the timeline you have around Zion Williamson. and I think there's a number of teams that could use a Drew Holiday.

Could a bidding war start between teams like Milwaukee and Philly and so on, you know, teams that need a guard and that could use a guy who's a veteran that can come in right away. I wonder if the Pelicans could stir something like that up. Doesn't it feel a little bit different, though, because of them hiring Stanvan,

because you know how much onus he puts on defense and how much he would value a guy like Drew Holiday unlike say, you know, if they brought in Mike Dantone, Mike Dantone has done one, whoever has the ball in their hands ends up having their biggest offensive season when they play for Dantone, right? But the guy that plays point guard for Stan Van Gundy, he's going to want somebody that's the grinder.

I mean, he won, look, when he won big, he won big with Jemir Nelson, right? Who's like this little fire plug kind of, you know, a guy that's really going to compete all the time. like Drew Holiday is, he's better than Jamir Nelson, but he is a competitor, you know, hard-nosed guy. He just feels like the kind of guy that Stan Ban would love. So I don't know if they'd be willing to come off of him as easily just because they hired Van Gundy.

You know, I think I think you're right there because the Pelicans do have playoff aspirations here. But, you know, you do still have to take the long view. And I wonder, you know, Vincent Goodwell reported a couple weeks back for Yahoo, sports that he's hearing that like you know eight nine 10 teams have inquired with the pelicans for holiday the nuggets were one of the teams that are really high on him it's been reported in the past that they've you know made attempts to get a holiday from the pelicans as well so whether it's you know Denver philly or whether it's Milwaukee there's a lot of teams that could use somebody like holiday i just wonder if a team that's younger like the pelicans and holiday being 30 and

and has a big deal i i do and they're about to have to pay Ingram for that matter too. I do kind of wonder if there's, there's a bidding war that could start. Put it this way. Holiday could be the best player that gets traded if he were to get traded. Because there's not a lot out there. And if he's the best guy that's potentially even available, you could create, you know, kind of an auction for him. I think, you know, now that you talk about it, I do think you're right about the whole more of the long view. Yes, they want to compete. Yes, they want to be able to get into the playoffs and play.

But they ain't winning a title next year. So. And that's why this year they didn't. the prime years. They didn't rush Zion back onto the court this year because they're like, what good is the eighth seed? What good is it? Four games? And Holiday, Holiday has much greater value to a team that is trying to win next year. I'm talking about, like, win a title next year. Like Denver, right? You've put him next to Jamal Murray and you, you go into the, you go into the game with Holiday Murray and Yokic. Oh, that's nice. Now all of a sudden, you got some, you're walking into something with a chance to win a title, right? Whereas the Pelicans, the Pelicans, by the way, with Holiday this year,

you're going to need a really good defensive guard for that matchup against Stefan Clay. Yeah, yeah. You're going to need that guy against, you know, in the east if he were to go to Philly or were to go to Milwaukee against Kyrie Irving in the Nets. You're going to need a guy like that. And he's a really, really good player. I mean, it's amazing he's been named an All-Star only once, all defensive team, only twice, but this is a guy everybody around the league knows is a high, high level player.

Oh, yeah. That on a winning team, a championship contending team, again, another one of those guys where I think you'd see the true impact that player can make in that type of environment. Unbelievable character guy too. Oh, yeah. Great dude. Everybody loves it. Everybody loves it.

But you're right. He does not, he's not on the Zion Ingram timeline. They haven't even taken any playoff lumps yet. They haven't even played in a series. much less, you know what I mean? And by the time they do and take those lumps, you're out of, you're out of Holiday's Prime. You know what I mean? He needs to be on somebody that can win right now.

Holiday, just to lay out his contract, this coming season, he's guaranteed for 26 million. The following year, he is a player option for 27 million. That's a year that I could see him, depending on what the cap looks like, either opting in or opting out for a larger payday because he'll be 31 years old. it might be the last year to get a big four year max contract. So he could opt out after one more year. And so for the Pelicans, would he want to stay there? Or would he rather go to a team that has those championship aspirations immediately?

Who knows? But for the Pelicans, I do think it is worth investigating and really deeply exploring the trade possibilities out there for a guy like that when he could leave after this coming season. Well, because that's not a bad deal. Not at all. It's not bad contract. I mean, do it? That's manageable for so many teams. Hell, when you're talking about some of these guys making $42 million,

if I'm paying him, I get him and another $15 million player for my $42 million. You know what I mean? Like, that doesn't, that's not punitive. You know what I mean? And by the way, for that receiving team too, let's say, I mean, he's had some injuries in the past. Let's say he, you know, he falls off a cliff. It's not like you have him at a four-year deal that takes him until he's 34. If you're that contending team taking on the player, to me, the shorter deal,

gives him more value because then you have a choice in a couple of years or in a year to either keep him long term or to say so long we want a championship with you or made a run going to move on to another option out there. To me, that's another factor that works really in favor of both the Pelicans and in favor of the potential receiving team. And I'm fascinated to see if Hollen-A gets dealt because I'd be thinking really hard about it if I'm David Griffin. I like that one.

All right. Last one, the draft pick. I think you're going to like this. fire away fire away I went with I went with one that is high

on these draft boards and on the ringer's draft guide he in the mock draft he currently sits at number seven he sits at number seven and this is this is my mock drafts yes so my mock draft

was updated today and who which player is going seven Tyrese Halliburton yes Tyreys Halliburton okay so the reason that this is my guy this week that super intrigues me. Everybody was effusive in their praise about Halliburton when we talked on Friday with Kyle Man and Jonathan Charks and we all had this discussion about the upcoming draft.

Shades of on the NBA draft guide, NBA draft.orgher, the ringer.com are Shadegildes us Alexander and Sam Cassell. Okay. So that is, those are great. Like, I love that right off the bat. But the reason that Halliburton intrigues me so much is because of going through an entire season being around and covering John Morant. Now, I'm going to tie all this together. The reason is because, so that staff, the John Morant staff from Murray State, they left Murray State and they went to.

to Iowa State. It's the same guys. It's the same guys, right? Once upon a time they found John Moran. John Moran played two years at Murray State. He flew up the boards. Nobody was talking about John Morant, and then everybody was talking about John Moran

by the time he was a sophomore in college, right? Nobody even talked about him his freshman year. Halliburton, not much different. It's like, wait, who? And next thing you know, he's like a top 10 draft pick, okay? So I reached out to them. to the Iowa State staff, who I've become friendly with through the year because obviously they care so deeply about Morant's success.

And this is what the guy that recruited Morant is a guy named James Kane. Okay? This is what he said to me. He said, I love him. He's got a body like Reggie Miller, is a wizard in ball screens. He can play multiple positions on and off the ball. High energy guy in the locker room and the court, low maintenance, total winner. he's an absolute joy to coach

and he said the thing about these under-recruited guys definitely have a chip on their shoulder and they aren't afraid to put in the work. They also know how to handle adversity a lot better too when things don't go their way. And I will tell you he would shoot straight with me on this kid. He would.

And if he would have responded something different, I would not, you know what I mean? I wouldn't have killed the kid on a national podcast. I wouldn't. You know what I mean? I would have just said my piece about, I've talked to people and I don't really know if I'm totally sold. But you can't get a better sales job than that.

And I'm telling you, these guys had Moran. They know what a player is. You know what I mean? They know when they got something special. And you take that thing one by one, everything that guy said to me about Halliburton, I loved. Everything. That's who he is.

That's who he is. I'm the draft guy. I call him a coach's dream. That's what he is as a player on the court with the action. you see with hustle plays, smart passes, unselfish decisions, and also what you hear from people that have been around him that have coached him or scouted him or worked with him or trained with him, that he is one of the highest character guys in the draft and somebody that you can bet on

to maximize whatever he's going to be, whether that's star player or very, very good player or whatever. He's going to maximize his potential because he works. And to me, in this. year's draft class that sort of touches on the the question some teams are asking do we want to try to you know swing for the fences and take a big risk or do you want to go with a guy that you feel like maybe you're just hitting a single maybe it's a double maybe you somehow around the basis and get get a triple but you know that that's the dilemma here are you drafting for upside or drafting for

certainty and there's a lot of certainty with haliburton and he still retains some upside if that handle can develop and he can become a shooter off the dribble because he's already good at everything, passing, shot creation for playmaking, you know, shooting off the catch. But shooting off the dribble is really what would make him not just good but possibly great. I love that point about the under-recruited guys

because obviously these guys have become experts at it, right? When you find the guy that was not supposed to be a top 10 draft pick, but ends up there. And this idea that the guys with the chip on their shoulder aren't afraid to put in the work. that they also, I think it is a extremely important point that they know how to handle adversity. When everything's gone your way and you've always been highly recruited and you've always been the best guy, what happens when it's not going your way?

And that these guys are especially equipped to deal with that, right? That if it doesn't pop right off the bat, they're not sitting there pointing fingers and saying, my coach did this. Right? Like they've been humbled. They have no reason to walk around thinking they're better than everybody else or that they're not getting a fair shake because they've already been in the spot where they didn't get the fair shake, right? They were in the same gym as all the players and coaches watched them all and liked the other guys better than them. So now they've got to prove themselves.

I love guys like that too. And geez, a wheeze. I mean, like, that's obviously. And let me just say this right off the bat. There are a lot of guys when we go through. the draft through the years, I end up contacting a lot of people that I've met throughout the years that are now coaches at different places or have coached against or coached guys. And I will tell you that it's not always PR.

It's just not. People are honest. They really are. More often than not, I find that people are honest. Yes. You find them to be honest about these guys. Because truth be told, in the end, you're going to see them again. and they don't want, yeah, you told me that this kid was going to be, you know, so and so, right?

It doesn't do them any good to try to pump up some kid that's not going to, not going to make them look smart. And sometimes you can also read between the lines, what people say. I mean, if they're not saying, wow, this guy gets in the gym, you know, right away, they're just saying, yeah, yeah, I mean, he worked on his weaknesses, you know, but they're not without much enthusiasm. Right. I mean, we're people. We're all human. and you can sort of sense a lot of the time

when someone's trying to be a salesman and sometimes when they're just being genuinely. Can I also tell you something really funny real quick before I get to yours? Please. I like funny stuff. Your mock draft as we talked about got updated. Number eight, Killian Hayes.

And here's the sidebar on him. Hayes is my top rank prospect. It could be a steal for the Knicks. He brings dynamic shot creation skills and a defense person New York needs everything. Hayes could bring it off.

Now, there was once a French point guard that was taken number eight by the New York Knicks that Kevin O'Connor loved. I mean, I'm not drawing comparisons. I'm just saying once upon a time, there was a French point guard taken with the eighth pick in the draft by the New York Knicks. And now you are advocating once again. back to the well. Let's just keep taking them until we end up with Tony Parker. Hey, this could be the one. I still like, I still like, I still like Frankie smokes. You're going to take a French guy right over the top of him, huh? Filthy Frank.

Unbelievable. And Killian Hayes in the back court together could be pretty exciting. Oh, that's a great, that's a great defensive back court. I'll tell you that. I can't imagine New York being less excited about anything. Now, dude, no, hell no. Nix fans, when they, whenever I got Hayes to the Knicks and my mocks are like, yeah. Love it. Nick's fans want Killian Hayes.

Oh, they do? Yeah, they like him a lot. Okay. All right, Kevin. Give me your draft pick that intrigues you. We talked about him a little bit on Friday show with Man and Charks, but I want to hit him again real quick on Yeke O'Kongru, USC Center, the Charlotte Hornets really, really like him at the third pick.

And I've been told, you know, these things can change. But it sounds like that could be their guy with the third pick if Wiseman is not on the board. But when it comes to the potential trades on draft night, I continue to hear, including this morning that Minnesota is having a lot of conversations with teams to trade down, including Charlotte and number three, because they'd like to move up and get Wiseman. And this, you know, Kong roots to me is one of those guys where he sort of symbolizes how wacky this draft could be. This is a guy who could go third. But if he doesn't go third, could he fall to nine or 10?

He very well could. And he's somebody a lot of teams like because of his potential versatility on the defensive end of the floor, 6-9, 245 pounds. He can defend bigger guys, but he also has some quickness to switch screens in the perimeter. There's a ban at a bio type of element to him in addition to the fact that he's a great finisher around the rim, a good decision maker. He can handle a little bit for you. there's some potential there for him to be more than just like a rim protector rim running big and a lot of teams like that guy and I wonder depending on what happens with one if that if Minnesota trades down where does O'Kongwu end up going to me is one of the

things to watch for in the draft because I could see a number of teams also trying to trade up for him from their position either in the middle or the late lottery so O'Kongru to me is somebody that isn't being talked about as much as some of those top guys, Wiseman, LaMello, Edwards, and understandably so. But he is somebody that has quite a lot of interest from teams drafting in the middle of the first round, where if he doesn't go three, we'll see what happens. How about, all right, so him versus, and I know they're different positions, but Okoro from Auburn, which one are you higher on?

I mean, I have O'Congru ahead of O'Coro. With Okoro, freshman wing from Auburn, there's little doubt that Okoro is going to be able to come in right away and be an impactful defensive player with his body, 6-6, 230 pounds, long arms. I mean, he's built, you know, really top. He looks like Equidala with the muscles and all that. And he could very well become an Igwadala type of defender. To me, you know, the concern with him is he shot 29% from three, shot 67% from the free throw line. And not only were they low percentages, but he was often a reluctant shooter, somebody who passed on open shots and said, gave it to another teammate or drove into the lane sometimes when it was packed.

And he's a good player. And I think he's going to be a really impactful player for you. But the shooting ability, I do have questions about that could limit his upside. Whereas with Okongwu, it's a different role on the shooting isn't necessarily as I'm poor. And though I do think Okongwu can develop a shot as well, he showed some midrange touch on floaters and, you know, shots from the elbow area. Okay, let me ask you this. And I'm not saying this to Poe-Colz and I'm asking this honestly.

Is this kid, do you feel like he is higher? And he has risen a little bit. And you've talked about some of the team. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's not Biggs. This is so light on Biggs that in another year where there were a bunch of bigs, like, okay, do you look at this guy?

Let me try to think. okay, a couple of years ago, the Luca draft, there was a bunch of bigs, right? Wendell Carter went what, like seventh, something like that? Is this guy a better prospect than Wendell Carter? That was somebody that you really loved. So I'm just bringing up a name, right? Now, Wendell Carter in a different year might have been. I liked Carter more as a prospect.

Interesting. So it is partly because of the year that this kid is falling into and that there is a lack of, you know, there's not a lot of six-nines that are on this thing. you know what I mean if you mean if you're plopping you know wise men or edwards into the 2021 draft i mean they're not going top three they might not go top five maybe last year six no the next year 2021 i mean these somebody i mean some of these whoever goes number one might not go top five next year and it's the type of thing where when it comes to a congo being the third pick that can only be said about this year's class um but comparing him to other prospects yeah it's

I still like Wendell Carter a lot. Yeah, I did. I still do like him on quite a lot. But I probably favored Carter slightly more than O'Kongwu. Though I will say this, O'Kongwu shows more versatility on switches than Carter did in college. And that's something that's close. It's close between them.

Some years we've got a lot of bigs. And some years we don't. And so like the fact is, is it because, you know, you're in a year. it's kind of like how there were a bunch of guys that said, you know what, I'll wait until next NFL draft

to come out. I'm a receiver, right? There's 50 guys that are going to get drafted in the first round. So this ain't the year for me. Unfortunately, if you're Trevor Lawrence, you can't go back

because then if you go back, the Jets will still have the number one pick the following year. Well, I hope we get to see him play a college game again. Oh, that'd be great. That dude's so fun. He may just opt out, though.

He may just say, the hell with this. It's kind of crazy that the Patriots could go from having the best quarterback in their division for two decades to the worst. I mean, you'll have, you'll have Tuah in Miami, Josh Allen and Buffalo, and possibly Lawrence in New York. And the Patriots have Cam Newton passes prime and Jared Stidham. Yeah, sounds to me like somebody's not a Stidham believer. I like at him. I mean, I think he's, I think he's, I think he deserves some reps to finish out this year. Oh, you want me to hit you with an NFL hot take? Ready? Please. I'm ready. It'll be okay, Kevin, because next year you'll get Jimmy Garoppolo back.

I don't, I don't want Jimmy G back. Yeah, you're getting back. They're going to be done in San Francisco. He's going to move on. The poor Niners, man. Bill Billetek's going to bring it back. They've been ravaged by injuries, man. Jimmy G. getting hurt, Kittle, eight-week injury. Terrible. injuries in the back fields. I mean, I think it's like 20 plus guys out of their 53-man roster. Terrible. That team,

if healthy, would be really, really good. Yep. All right. Hopefully everybody enjoyed some basketball talk and you're able to get a and some football talk. Yeah.

A brief respite from all the stress that everybody is enduring over the course of the next 48 hours or hopefully 48 hours. Hopefully this thing doesn't drag into December. like it did with friggin George Bush and Al Gore for like December until we found out who the next president was going to be. That was terrible. Kevin, enjoy your week the best you can. I will talk to you on Friday.

Have a great week, everybody. Thanks to producer, Sasha. As always, and we will be back on Friday.