The Ringer NBA Show - Seeds, Seeds, Seeds, Fixing the Sixers, and the Bubble Suns | The Mismatch

Episode Date: August 11, 2020

Verno and KOC discuss the narrowing race for the 8-seed in the West (0:37), the never-ending quest to make the Philadelphia 76ers' roster fit together (28:12), and the still-undefeated Phoenix Suns (45:47). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Buffalo Wild Wings. Basketball is finally back, so it's time to celebrate the return with Buffalo Wild Wings, where the wings come in 24 sauces and seasonings. When you watch it home, make sure you watch with a wing bundle. Basketball's back, and there's no better way to watch them with Buffalo Wild Wings. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Join as he does every Tuesday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, a.k.k. Kevin O. O. Concer. Kevin O. Kevin O. Kavanaugh.

Redder Kevin. Berno. We're back recording in the morning on Tuesdays. We are. We are. We're recording at night, Thursday night for Friday morning. That's right.

And this is all going to, by the time we get to Friday, we're going to know what the playoffs are, but we still have some games until we get to that. There is still, the race for the 8th seed is the biggest story. Because you have the Grizzlies, the spurs,

the trailblazers, and the suns all still in it. with just a few games left to go. And we really don't know who's going to be the eight, who's going to be the nine, and then who is going to have to beat the other one twice, or who's going to have to beat the other one one time. The Grizzlies are playing Boston. Now, by the time most people listen to this,

this game will probably have already happened. But over the weekend, you and I and Bill Simmons were on a text message, and I said to Bill, as you saw, I said, there's no way Boston's going to play all their guys on Tuesday, right? I was like, why would you, if everything's locked in, because what we know now is the East is locked. Milwaukee is locked at one, Toronto is locked at two, and Boston is locked at three. And there is this whole traffic thing out there, which is shamefully from a Jeff Green trade many years ago. Daniel Tice is the only one so far at time of recording that has been reported as out.

But this is the kind of stuff that will decide the Western Conference playoff race. Interestingly enough, is whether or not opponents play their guys in these games. What do you think? You think Boston will end up running their guys out there? Certainly they wouldn't run them out there big starter minutes, I wouldn't think. Yeah, and now also games today, you know, you got Mavericks Blazers and Mavericks have incentive to beat Portland. Because if they win that game, they could potentially choose their destiny with their game against Memphis on Thursday. You got Phoenix and Philly today.

Phoenix won a big game yesterday against O'KC having some guys out. Philly has guys out today and beat is out, Simmons is out, Harris and Horford are questionable. Again, by the time you hear, we'll have clarity on whether these guys are going to play or not. But, you know, all these games are those bubble spots on the Western Conference in San Antonio versus Houston as well. We'll see what the Rockets do. But all these teams are arresting some guys or some guys are out injured already like a beating Simmons. But we'll see. I mean, I think with Boston, I said this to you and Bill on the text.

I think the Celtics have incentive to try to win. This is a game that if I'm the Celtics, I would look at it as like, we're going to play our guys, maybe not 35 minutes, but 25 minutes. as sort of a test run and then rest fully for their final game before the postseason. But this feels like a good timing for them to go hard and try to win a game, not to mention the organizational implications because of the pick. Just to outline that for the listeners with Memphis, they have their top six protected first round draft pick. So if Memphis falls into the lottery, that is a positive for Boston.

They get a better draft pick, first of all. But second of all, even if Memphis somehow won the draft lottery and got a top four pick, then Boston would have Memphis's unprotected first round pick next year in a far stronger draft class. So for Memphis, like you want to give it up this year to Boston. And they will, on all likelihood will, whether they slip into the lottery or whether they make the playoffs. But this is one interesting game today that has implications beyond the playoff race. But obviously the playoffs are the main thing. everybody's looking forward to watching. Yeah, it is.

It's one of these conundrums that these teams have because, you know, I told you guys, I lived this life in the, now a draft pick was not on the line, but frankly, this draft pick, you're talking about a few spaces. More than likely, it's a few spaces difference.

It might be the difference between the 14th pick and the 16th pick or 17th pick, right? And the last game of a season, which did not matter for a Grizzlies team that, going into the playoffs against Kauai Leonard in his year playing for San Antonio. The year that Pachulia

slid underneath him, and he was just supernova. Tony Allen, they ran him out there. He got hurt. And you end up going into the playoffs, and I got to watch Andrew Harrison and James Ennis try to guard

Kawhi Leonard. It's like, what is the point here? And, you know, knock on wood, nobody gets injured. But there is a risk, right?

Anytime that you're running, guys out there in totally meaningless games. Your fan base is not going to care at all if you don't win the game. Like nobody's going to be mad about it. But they will be mad at now. Just the hardcore fans, the people who comments on forums, who

listen to the radio every day and all that. But if somebody gets dinged, if somebody gets dinged, even a freak thing, right, poked in the eye, anything. If something happens, I mean, it's World War III. You're right, because it's like, why on earth, would you run guys out there? There is nothing to gain unless you want to talk about the, again, and then that's the risk

reward, right? And by the way, like, it's not just about the pick, though. It's also about, like, Boston is a team that's been up and down. That's right. They had a great game versus Toronto. And then they went into overtime against Orlando, a team that wasn't playing all of its starters. So, like, for Boston, to me, the number one thing for them is, like, getting this right,

getting it right before the postseason. And for them, they've been. up and down, up and down. To me, this is a game for them to really try to establish who they are before the postseason. And there's the incentive with the draft pick aspects. I do wonder, I do wonder on the whole, like, playing well because the Bucks record, the Lakers record,

and the Clippers record also, they're not good. Like, none of the records are good in these eight games. And so does it matter? You know what I mean? I don't know. I really don't. I mean, just a touch on those games. yesterday. I mean, Nuggets Lakers, Lakers, I mean, Nuggets didn't play their guys at the end of the game in the fourth quarter. They, you know, Yokic played like 25 minutes. You know, but the Lakers, despite in that game, you still see some good things that they were able to figure out. Kuzma, I mean, it's been great watching him get better. I mean, he's been, he's always going to be up and down and inconsistent on offense, but he's been consistently trying his butt, you know, he's been busting his butt on the defensive end of the floor. And then Buxer Raptors.

similar thing. No Janus for the Bucks, but we got to see some of those bench units go at it. And, you know, in that game, you can look at some things too. Like Toronto's had some great games. They also have had some bad games, too. Same with the Bucks. The consistent thing throughout is Siakum has not produced at a star level, level as an offensive player. That's another game against a tough opponent. Buck, Celtics, Lakers, Magic, their defenses have done a good job against Siacum. So that's something you want to see change for Toronto. Like, even in some of these games where the starters aren't playing or they're not playing full minutes,

there's still stuff to watch for. So yesterday's games were fun in that sense. Well, and I will say on the Kuzma shot at the end of the game, I read an article this morning talking about how, you know, these coaches all steal from one another because that play was so well executed at the end of the game. For people that were up late last night, Kyle Kuzma got a blocking charge.

on him and the Nuggets split the free throws. And so now at the other end, Kuzma gets a play run from him by Frank Vogel. And Vogel said that when he was coaching Indiana, Atlanta ran that exact play with Horford and Corver. And he stole it. He just stole it. Like, I'm going to use this for an inbound.

And especially if the other team has young guys on the court. And in last night's case, it was Bull Bull, on the court for Denver. You will hear this many times, and different teams have different things that they'll yell out. Sometimes it's red, sometimes it might be 10,

whatever it may be. Short clock switch everything. Like, that's the general rule. Short clock switch everything. And Bovo gets hung up on the bottom, right? Two of the guys, actually, I think it's Plumley and Bull, both kind of stay with Anthony Davis,

as Kuzma flies out, Bobo's too late. It was a good design. There was a cross screen set by Kuzma for AD that forced an initial switch. But then the confusion happened. Plumley switches onto Kuzma. And then LeBron and Kuzma set screens for each other,

which Kuzma slips. So good. Both guys went with LeBron. And it was just disorienting for that Nuggets defense. But fact is, though, is despite all, you know, the beauty of the plays of the screens and the movement before the shot,

the fundamentals there by Kuzma to take that ball turn midair off balance and balance himself midair and drain the three was you know beautiful to watch which is really well well executed play and you know a fundamental shot

like you can see why a play like that would have been run for Khorver because not a lot of guys can hit the shot like that still a little dicey that they were you know it took the Kuzma shot in order for them to beat yeah the backup nuggets last night So who knows what to take away.

And the Nuggets, you know, not going back to their guys, you try to figure out the motivation on this stuff. I, you know, there's part of me that thinks they would rather draw Utah than they would Dallas. The thing is, is Dallas can move up, though. Dallas can still move up to six. So there's still a chance for Dallas. And that's like what I said earlier, Dallas has incentive to try to beat the Blazers today. Luca and K.P sat yesterday and they still beat the jazz. But if they win versus Portland, they could potentially control their destiny with their game Thursday because the Clippers and Nuggets play on Wednesday.

Dallas, depending on a number of things that could happen, could if they decide to lose, they could choose their opponent. They decide to win. They could choose their opponent. So for them, they have incentive to win now as well. But there's so much that can still change. Yeah. So much. You just wonder with a game like that with Denver.

Like, why aren't they going back to their guys? because two is in reach. Being the two seed is in reach at that moment. But I don't know. I don't know if they were trying to dictate seed. I don't know if they're just worried about guys getting injured and so they don't care what seed they are. There was part of me that thought, hey, I mean,

with the way it is now, they'd be playing Utah. And hell, I'd rather I'd rather play Utah than I would Dallas. Because if you're thinking if we move up the two, we're playing Dallas. And again, I know you said Dallas kick control it's Odessly. So I don't know if you're playing the seating game. You know, because like we were talking about the pick thing with Boston. So Oklahoma City is trying to lose because they've got this top 20 protected pick. And this is from the 2016 trade with the Sixers for Jeremy Grant, of all things.

And it's a top 20 protected. And they're sitting like at 21. And so their motivation, they would love to keep that pick, and so lose, but what does that do to their seating? I mean, I can't tell if these teams care about seating or if they care about their picks or what. But in Oklahoma City's case, obviously they were sitting guys the other night. And I saw Tim Bontem's wrote a short article about like there's a little mini tankathon going on with some of these teams that want to hold on to their picks that don't necessarily control everything. For sure. And one thing we didn't mention is like there's so many things that can change. The clippers could still fall to four if the nuggets and rockets went out.

So there's so many different potential scenarios that could unfold over the coming days. And, you know, I was thinking, I was thinking a lot about how, you know, we're talking about like that six, seven spot between Dallas and Utah. And these other teams are pretty close to them. The playing tournament has just been a big win. you have Phoenix making their run you know you have San Antonio still in it you have Portland you know getting an opportunity potentially to go against Memphis

you have more teams that have something to play for more fan bases that have something to root for to me this is verified that the playing tournament is something that the league should do moving forward however I do think the league should do what they originally proposed the league originally proposed having the seven

and eight seeds in there for the playing tournament against the nine and the ten and I was just thinking about last night before I went to bed, how cool it would be if, like, you had that seven spot, like really close to four, five, six, all those teams needing, trying to play their ass off towards a close of the year, according to fall of seven. I mean, you'd have, again, you'd have more teams with more to play for. And that's the number one thing to keep the regular season really, really interesting towards the end. Because some, let's just face it, like,

sometimes the league drags in March and April. It just does. Sometimes it, It can be boring for a lot of teams because you're just waiting to, you know, press simulate season and get to the postseason. But if the league were to install something like that during a normal year, that last month of the year could be pretty awesome on both ends. Teams trying to avoid fall in a seven, teams trying to get into that nine or ten spot on the back end. I think it would be so dope and really, really improve the quality of the regular season

from a fan standpoint and from a team standpoint in terms of, because fans more fans are interested, more fans are watching, more fans are buying tickets, and there's more money coming into the league. It just, it would be great. Well, and certainly just look at these games that are going on with, as you mentioned, San Antonio playing Houston, Memphis playing Boston, Portland playing Dallas. These are all now extremely huge games at the very end to just see who even has the opportunity to play in the playoffs.

San Antonio and Phoenix need to win their last two. Portland can obviously go one-to-one. one Memphis can go one and one or oh and two and still get to play in the play in. The only thing we're, so we don't know what how the way, the way all that's going to play out. We do know that the team that I would say most people pick to be there is the only one that's not there. And that is New Orleans as their season basically ended over the weekend.

Sad game today. You know, New Orleans versus Sacramento, what seemed like on the. schedule like wow last week that's going to be a huge game no it's a game nobody's really going to watch well like kevin i didn't i hadn't dove into the numbers on the pelicans thing but zack cram um from the ringer and if you follow him on twitter he's been doing this like stad of the day every day that he tweets out of the day the zact of the day so the other day he put one out and this might have been prior to their last game but the one about zion and saying that the Pelicans throughout the season, when he came back, were like plus 10 with him on the court.

And that during this bubble time, if you can look it up, it was like minus 23 or something. And I was like, what? Something crazy like that. His net rating was like plus 10 during the regular season. And during the bubble was like minus 20 something. and that is maybe the most shocking of the revelations to come of what happened with the Pelicans. Beyond the fact that Lanzo ball played really pretty well this year, and it certainly kind of settled into something.

He was horrific in the bubble. Oh, my God. I mean, look, I was listening to the radio call from the Pelicans guys, and they were really lamenting it. They were like, I mean, he's been in single digits every single game. you know he was horrific well i mean let's just say it plainly he was horrific yeah he could not score from mid range could not score around the basket could not hit free throws his three point shot fell apart crazy he was a zero he was a zero on the offensive end of the floor and you know with lonso

this has always been the fear ever since you know prior to the draft like what if he can't do anything for you offensively and by the way the saving grace though with the lonso was always he's you know really good defensive player for some reason ingram and lonso on the defensive end in New Orleans have not been good defensive players, which is weird because the last two years in LA, I thought they were both really good defensive players, especially Law and so. But there's something wrong there with the Pelicans

on the defensive end of the court. And I'm not sure how much of it is like personnel. You know, Zion, obviously, lack of conditioning is not the guy that he needs to be. He's bad on defense right now. Always in the wrong place, it seems. How much of it also is coaching? You know, how much of it is guys just being, young. It's probably all these factors put together, but something's wrong there with their

defense. And I'm going to be interested to see what David Griffin does with personnel changes or possibly head coaching changes during the off season. To fix things there. Something's going to change. And even worse in the bubble than it was prior to. And I talked at the beginning of this, I said it is not going to get talk. But Jeff Bisdellick being one of the coaches that opted out, that is going to have an effect on them because there's some of the. these teams where their coach is totally offensive-minded. He hands over the defense to a guy and just says, you do that side of the ball. Well, Buzzdelic, because of, you know, the fears did not go down to the bubble.

And so they didn't have their defensive coordinator. Real quick, that Zach Cramstadt that I was talking about, this was the seventh. So it's obviously not like exactly like you put it up yesterday. But at that point, before the restart, the Pelicans were plus 10. per 100 possessions with Zion on the floor. For context, the Lakers were plus 10.3 with LeBron on the floor. Since the restart, the Pelicans are minus 22.8 per 100 with Zion on the floor. I mean, that is a 33 point swing, Kevin.

It's a real, like, how? 33 points? I just don't, I don't. I don't understand that. What happened? Their defense was horrible. I mean, that's, that's what happened. Their defense was pathetic.

No. The Pelican's defense fell apart. It was not what it was towards the end of the season when they were pretty solid on that end of the floor. I mean, there's really no other way to put it. There's like bad on defense. Zero percent chance Alvin Gentry keeps his job, right? I mean, there's always a chance, but I would, he's definitely going to be in consideration for a change there.

He was already in place when David Griffin took over to that job. And so you're always at risk whenever. I don't care what their prior relationship is. GMs typically want their own players and they want their own coaches. And so you're always going to be at risk unless you won a lot, like I.E. Dwayne Casey did in Toronto until, you know, Messiah, E. Jiri could change stuff there and get, you know, his handpick coach. Griffin, I would imagine, will change gentry. And that has not been bandied about as much in the media because the job is not open yet. But we know that he does have a prior relationship with the coach when he was the GM in Cleveland.

So would you suspect that the Lakers, or who the Lakers almost hired last year is the guy that could end up with the Pelicans? Oh, you mean, Ty Lucchrist? Yeah. This is, I mean, he worked with him in Cleveland. Mm-hmm. Dickie ends up getting that job. Seems like a possibility is also in consideration for that Nets gig as well. There's a report today from Shams Sharania about some of the possibilities for the Nets that they would consider Uduca from the Spurs being Gundy from the ESPN broadcast.

And kid, assistant coach for the Lakers back in Brooklyn. I mean, yeah, because the last time it ended so well. Yeah, they love each other there. He like bolted to the river. Like that was the craziest story. That was my guy, Tim Bontem's got that story. That's how he made a big name for himself. Well, Bonteps, when he, when, uh, that was just such a bizarre thing.

He bolted and like next thing we know he's the coach of the bucks or whatever. That was weird. Yeah. Weird, weird story. Why does his name come up for every job still? Seriously. Great agents. What?

And Van Gundy. I swear Van Gundy's name has been associated with every job for the last decade. This guy, what was the last time? When was the last time Chip Gandhi coached outside of like the junior, you know, USA team that he goes over in coaches? But I'm saying like what I'll say, let's say it was Houston, right? So I'll say it was Houston. What was the year? Tell me, I got it in front of me.

What was the year? I'll say, oh, seven. 0-607. Yep, you nailed it. The Rockets that year won 52 games, lost in seven games in the first round to the Utah Jazz. And then he was replaced by Rick Adelman. Oh, I would have gotten that wrong. Oh, the replacement.

Yeah, the Rick Adelman era. I should have quiz you on that. No, forgettable. Full little pop quiz here. I think a little free, I think I would have told you that it went straight from Vancouver to Kevin McHale. I, uh, I don't remember a lot. lot about the Rick Adelman, Houston era at all. How long was he there?

Yeah, Adelman. Adelman was there for four years. They won 53 games, 42 games, 43 games, and then 34 games during the lockout short. Sorry, that was the McAylia. Maybe that's why I don't remember as much. 55 games, first round loss. Yeah, 53 games, second round last, 42, 43, and then McHale took over during the lockout short season.

My bad. Yeah, I hadn't heard his name. forever Rick Edelman. That's the first time I thought about him in a long, long time. Anyways, all right, so the Pelicans obviously will be looking for a coach. Brooklyn is looking for a coach. And

I think with that one, like the Pelicans is a great job for somebody that can teach guys how to be a pro, teach them how to win. Like those guys have not won anything yet. Teach them how to win. Teach them how to be pros.

And you can really do a lot of molding with that. I feel like, and maybe this is why Jason Kidd's name comes up. Like that, that Brooklyn job is not as much as you know about X's and O's as it is ego-stroking. And how do I, how do I massage this into working? Because of the personalities that I'm going to be dealing with, with Kyrie, with Durant, with who knows what the rest of your roster is going. to look like. And so just keeping those guys happy, engaged, playing hard for you, and kind of keeping a team connected and on the same page and building chemistry within that team rather

than having these guys off on their road. It's kind of this guy. Because they both kind of at one point in their careers feel, like it's, you've sensed that they're separated from the group, right there was the point where durant was separated from the group in golden state certainly there was the point where kairi was separated from the group in boston um yeah and even cleveland they said he didn't like even like even the during the finals a couple years ago they said he didn't even like what was it like after it was over they said he hadn't talked to anybody in a month yeah yeah so i mean this is a this is a psychology job probably more than anything in brooklyn right absolutely And, you know, Jason Kidd, up and down head coaching career, but there's no needying his credentials as a player with somebody who's played with a lot of great players, a lot of great teams who understands the personality aspect with dealing with that.

So if he were to get another opportunity with Brooklyn, it would be kind of shocking just the way, with the way things have ended. But if that's what Katie and Kyrie want and DeAndre Jordan for that matter, too, well, then that's what they want. Yeah, right. It's what they want. But ultimately, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Brooklyn ends up going with somebody else. Yeah. Marks was a Spurs guy, right? Sean Marks?

Yes. All right. So, I mean, the docket name then did come up, right? That would a lot of times. Highly regarded assistant coach, obviously from the Spurs family. Yeah. To me, like, he stands out as a strong candidate for that big. Well, and his name has come up several times in the past as a good young prospect.

as a coach. And so, I mean, we've seen... Only 43 years old, you know, young on the coaching side. And we've seen a lot around the league. Like, that's how, like, you know, Danny Ferry brought in Budenholtzer once upon a time there. And so a lot of times it can stay within the tree, you know, as it were. Same with Utah and Quinn Snyder. And so maybe Mark sits there and goes, okay, I know what I'm getting in this guy coming from the Popovich

tree. And so maybe that. I don't know. Again, do you want to throw a guy that is in his first head coaching job into a locker room with, you know, like there's part of me that says you should have somebody that's got a lot of games on their record because otherwise you, you know, things go wrong. You run the risk of the Kyrie's and the Kevin Durant's telling that locker room, this guy doesn't know what the hell he's doing. Sure. And by the way, I might have misspoke earlier because I associate his name with Spurs. He's with the Sixers right now, but he was previously with the Spurs.

Udoca. I think, did I say that in passing earlier? I said, did I say Spurs? Yeah, but, hey,

look, it all, it doesn't even matter. We have got to edit that one out, Kemp, because Brown's a Spurs guy. Like, they're all together.

You know what I mean? Yeah, the family tree, I think, yeah, why do you think he's in Philly? It's not like, it's not my mistake either.

You know, hell, he may get that job. I mean, by the way, with the Sixers, I wrote an article yesterday on the ringer just basically saying the Sixers are done without Ben Simmons. Without a defensive player of his caliber, I don't see how they're going to get through Toronto or Boston or Miami. They're done. However, you know, despite the fact that MB just had this little ankle injury, it seems like he should be back fine. it's going to be a real test for Brett Brown here.

You know, Sixers fans have seen him, you know, struggle to make changes time and time again over the years. Now's an opportunity for Brett Brown to show I can change on the fly here, put four shooters around Joel on Bede, you know, run more high pick and roll with Embed with Jake Milton as the ball handler, change how we do things and get this right. It's an opportunity to prove that he can adapt as a coach. It's an opportunity for Joe Al-Mede to show that he can be the guy if there ever comes a time when the Sixers need to or want to choose between Embed and Simmons and make a big change.

There's so much to watch for with Philly, assuming Embed comes back, that'll have implications with their future, particularly with the coach. Because for Brett Brown, if they flame out in the first round, get swept or losing five to Boston, I have a hard time finding reasons for why they would end up keeping him. when there's been so many consistent problems in the past that continue popping up. Maybe it's the coach. I will say that when they lost them beat in that game

against Portland, they were right there. I mean, it took a, just a monster effort out of Lillard for them to beat them. That was insane. I mean, we have nine straight, I think it was. I mean, he had the four-point play. Then he came back at another three. And this is coming off of him talking shit with Paul George

and Pat Bev on a social. The second game of a back to back too. Yeah. Their defense. They make scoring 50 look easy. Yeah, but their defense has been bad, bad. Portland. Bad, bad.

You know, everybody's scoring on them. Everybody. When that Philly team is getting buckets in the manner that they were. So we assume Brett Brown, this is a tough spot for him to be able to keep his gig. What I am more interested in is your thoughts on this. I saw a headline the other day, and I was taken aback by it, but I know this is the way things work in the NBA, especially when anybody does live up to expectations. These are the type of conversations that are had. And the headline was, and forgive me, I don't know who wrote it, but it was basically, have we seen the last game, Joel Embed and Ben Simmons play together?

No. And I was like, no. No, we haven't. No. You think there's no way. they would break that up. No chance. I don't think so.

Really? No, I don't. I mean, look, the Simmons and Bede core clearly has issues. You have one center and Embedd who shoots around 30% from three and one big man and Ben Simmons who shoots with the wrong hand and has long been reluctant to even spot up from behind the arc until recently. And even if he does spot it from behind the arc,

defenses aren't going to respect them until he proves that they should, which there's no guarantee that he will. There's problems there. But the main problem, and this is what I'm looking forward to seeing, is this supporting cast. You paid over $100 million to Al Horford, who has been a shell of his former self.

You paid $190 million to Tobias Harris, who is a quality player to be clear, but he has not been a guy that they need to really step up and be that all-ball creator at a high level. He's just not that guy. But with this new look, I asked Brett Brown before the game the other day. I asked him, you know, with losing Ben Simmons,

you're losing a guy who this season, according to B-ballindex.com, has defended opposing players who have been named to an all-N-B-A team more often than anybody else in the league. Ben Simmons is the number one guy who's been a stopper against stars. How does that complicate your plans, your strategy, to have him removed? And Rep Brown started his answer,

saying, well, without Ben, things become clearer on the offensive end of the court. He, you know, he's like, you know, you surround Joel with shooters. You know, you run more pick and roll with him, have him roll to the rim. It becomes clear with what you want to do on offense. And then he got into the answer that I asked, the question I asked about with defense. He said, you feel the pain. You feel the pain without Ben. It's going to have to be done by committee.

But I thought it was really interesting. He started off talking about offense because it does clarify things with what you want to do. Ben Simmons is a tremendous player, but the fit, the flaws on offense are real. So I'm going to be really interested to see. Can Brett Brown do what he called obvious? He called it obvious that you do this with Joelle Labide. Well, let's see it. Let's see it happen.

And let's see how it works because it still should work. Tobias Harris is no slouch. Al Horford is still a quality, you know, playmaking big. These players don't stink on the Sixers. The fit's not perfect. It can still work. I mean, look, dude, like you got Greg Popovich using Eubanks successfully. Like, come on, the Sixers have some good players.

Spurs are making it work with some not so good players. The Sixers can make this work. Maybe they won't make a run. I don't think they will make a run because of the defensive aspect. But I want to see Brett Brown do something with this offense. Spice it up, man. That's what he needs to prove. Hey, Chris, before we move on, let's hear from today's sponsor.

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regarding the Embed and Simmons and you know is it a marriage going forward I do think it's hard to build you know what you want

and I get it right they screwed up with the amount of money that they spent on the other guys that being said we've all known from for the last couple of years

it's not an ideal fit and I look at Simmons I look at Simmons as the kind of guy that you could get you could get a another all-star, all-NBA caliber type player in return. You know what I mean?

Like you could. You could get, that is a better fit with Embed. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying that you're moving him and not getting something back. I'm saying you're getting something awesome back because that's what he would get if you, if you put him on the market. And that's why, again,

like there's another reason why these next couple weeks will be so interesting for the Sixers if they, like, suddenly start clicking on offense. Yeah. And it is unlike anything. we've seen in recent years from them. And you're like, oh, maybe it would be better off, you know, changing Simmons for another star player or, you know, a couple of really good, really good or great players.

Maybe that's something you think a little harder about. But I still get back to the fact that, you know, Ben and Joel have had a lot of success offensively in the past, despite their flaws. They just have with the both of them together. And I look at Ben Simmons as sort of superstar insurance for Joelle Embed. Embedde has had so many injuries throughout his career, up and down with his conditioning. Can Embed be the guy who's handling this massive workload on offense

and still be the same guy, a great defensive player, a great rim protector on defense? That's a big question for me too. And Joel and Ben, core is not perfect, but it can work with the right surrounding pieces and with the right sacrifices.

Ben Simmons being willing to spot up from three. and hopefully, you know, he's at least average as a shooter with his left hand. Joel M. Bid being willing to roll to the rim more often in the pick and roll instead of pop. These guys both get to do a little bit more outside than what they've already done as great players. There's still more to their games. I wouldn't split it up yet unless there's a tremendous offer on the table. I just think it's hard. Which there could be.

When your two best players are in this type of NBA, when your two best players are guys that are both, at their best within five feet of the rim. I think that's really hard to have a good enough offense to compete at the highest level. And I thought it was interesting when you saw Draymond on TNT last week. And he said, trust me, every time Joe L. Embed goes out to take a jump shot, he's letting the defender off the hook. I disagree with that. You want Joe L.M.M.B. posting up, you know, all the time? No, you don't.

sometimes pick and poppin and it's not just him shooting threes it's him attacking closeouts against a defense that's out of position too which is highly effective for them it's not just him shooting threes with his perimeter style and sometimes him spotting up can open driving lanes for others too i disagree with i disagree with draymond there on that um but the fact is is that yeah you want him on the post because he's become a devastating post presence he had one of the most efficient post seasons in the last 10 years second behind only Dirk Novitsky for a high usage post player. He was unbelievable

on that side, on that area of the court. But there's more to his game than just posting up. But I am intrigued by the idea of Sixers team sort of like, you know, those late 2000s magic teams around Dwight Howard, where you have Dwight inside with four shooters

around him. If you can do something like that with Joelle and Bede, you know, it's really intriguing with what that type of offense could be. I still I'm sort of in love with the idea of the Sixers going for Chris Paul. I think if you add Chris Paul to that offense, you know, if you're able to flip either Harris or Horford with other assets to get Chris Paul despite his age, he has proved this season. He is still a terrific point guard.

Chris Paul helps your on ball point guard defense, one of the issues you've had in the past stopping guards. We saw Dame Liller get anywhere he wanted against that team. He helps with your facilitating with giving you an actual traditional point guard. who can run pick and roll with Ben Simmons, who can run it with Joel Embed, and because Simmons is a guy who's going to handle the ball, because Embed is a guy who's going to post up a lot,

Chris Paul is somebody who is a threat to shoot off the catch. Chris Paul, to me, is a guy that the Sixers should go for over the summer, despite his age. To me, he elevates with what that team could be now. Because if you're the Sixers, you are in win now mode because of the long-term uncertainty with Joel and Beed's health, because of Ben Simmons, you know,

maybe at some point with clutch, they want him out of there to have his own team. It's just the reality of it. So right now, this is another year for the Sixers where it's just a disappointing crash landing ending. And it's unfortunate this year. It has to do with Ben's injury. But there's still something there with Embeddon Simmons that can work if they find the right supporting cast. And to me, finding a ball handling guard or wing is that answer. And Chris Paul would probably be the number one guy that I would go.

for that's even potentially available because there's not a lot out there in terms of you know great players or star players that are going to be on the market this off season Chris Paul stands out you know who would be really good there is Jimmy Butler oh wait see yeah yeah Jimmy Butler would be great but but even then even then like it even I know it did they went to game seven nearly beat the eventual champions but you know even then though the Butler the Butler aspect he is not a great Shooter off the catch. And also with like a Butler

Simmons pick and roll, that's something you can switch. You can switch the Simmons Butler pick and roll. If you have Chris Paul Simmons pick and rolls or Chris Paul and Bede pick and rolls, you're probably not switching that because then you're putting a bigger,

slower guy on Chris Paul or you're putting a smaller guy on Simmons or Embed. Like I'm kind of obsessed with that idea. I first mentioned it in January. I'm still really into it. I thought we agreed he was going to be a Nick. I mean,

Nick, Nick's, we'll say there too. Or he could end up with OKC. Look, if you're OKC, do you want to break this up for just an extra couple of draft picks

or not a young player? Or do you want to keep riding this with all the positives that he's bringing to that table there? OKC's fun. Well, I'll tell you, if there's anything they don't need,

it's draft picks. Hell, what the guy gets six? Didn't he get six? I think he got six. Six first rounders or something? Yeah, Presti actually,

it's all the draft picks. He has every trap pick over the course of the next couple of years. All your draft picks are belong to us. I mean, he is so set up. He really is to make any kind of move with all of the, in terms of asset acquisition with what he did with the Westbrook deal and what he did with the Paul George deal. I mean, he just got an absolute King's ransom.

And every once in a while, when somebody will mention it, I'll hear it at passing. I'll go look up like what they have over the next like four years. And it is, it's embarrassing, truly. It's embarrassing how many picks they have from all of these teams. It's like they have like 10 first round picks or something like that. They like on Real GM, they have a future picks. Yeah.

Page. OKC actually has their own page. It's like 4 slash OKC. This scroll just keeps going. It's just never ending. It's ridiculous. All right. So now, I will say this.

Last night, the game that I settled in and watched intensely was Miami and Indiana. And I got to tell you, that Miami team is going to be a big problem. When they get engaged, they were tied 48, 48 at halftime of that game. And they shot under 40 percent, just hit nothing. And they got the kind of team that can do that. Most of these teams, you are dead. If you shoot 35% and a half, you're just dead. And they're sitting there tied at halftime of that game.

And I'm thinking about myself, go, if they knocked down some shots, they are going to beat the shit out of it. And sure enough, in the second half, they ran them off the court. Because they've got so many guys that are interchangeable. They've got so many guys that share the ball. And then they've got some dead-eye shit. shooters on that team. And of course, you've got Butler who constantly gets to the line.

Out of bio was very good last night. I wouldn't want to get in their way right now, Miami. And I think, I actually think there when in terms of if I'm Milwaukee, you know, I'm rooting like hell for whoever does draw Miami because I think that, I think that will be a big time series. Because it looks like we're kind of hurtling towards that. That second round, if it's Milwaukee,

Miami, and Boston, Toronto, holy mackerel. Oh, that's going to be great. You know? I mean, I'm sure Bucks fans will be like, we just beat the heat by 14 last week, but Butler wasn't playing in that game. That's right.

So, I mean, that's a significant difference here. And of course, you know, neither team was at full strength necessarily. but Miami, that's one game. Miami has also beaten the bucks twice during the regular season. They have proven in each of those games

that they're going to be tough. And this is why I've been saying, and I'm going to repeat it again, whatever team represents the East in the finals will have done something special because there are some really tough matchups that we're going to see unfold during the postseason.

Miami's hard. Toronto's so, tough. Boston, if they can get their offense clicking and their defense back on track, there might be the second best team in the Eastern Conference. It's going to be a really tough

past the East with those teams. Never mind that the Pacers are a tough team. I mean, well, I don't think the Sixers are going to do anything about who knows. Maybe they, maybe things click with them be but I don't think so. But I'm just saying it's going to be tough. All right.

We know Milwaukee's the big favorite. So here's the question. And this is going to be the most important question of the podcast. In fact, it can be the last. question of the podcast. Kevin, let's say, and we're not going out on a limb here,

Milwaukee wins the east. Okay, they've been the best team all year long. They got the best player, the presumptive MVP and Janus. Do you think that they have enough to be able to beat the Sons in the finals? That's the real question. If the Sons keep shooting over 40% from three,

It's going to be hard to beat them. This has been, you and I have jumped and fought over the suns, so many times over the course of the last three, four years. It had, like, yesterday when I was watching and Booker pulls it from like 45 feet. Can't help but laugh. Hey, and he's being guarded. All right. And the net doesn't even move.

I was like, this is, that is the perfect, like if you could frame that, that is the perfect example of what has gone on with this Phoenix Sun's team since the restart. Because the ultimate heat check shot from 45 feet away, like, they can do no wrong. And I know they've had some, you know, teams sit guys out against them. But truth be told, like a lot of these teams have struggled. I'm going to give them credit, even though teams have set guys out against them and they're going to again. Like, look, I saw the Clippers tried to lose against Portland so that the Lakers would have to play Portland. And they couldn't do it. You know, I mean, like, you still got guys that are out on the court and they're not laying down.

Like Rodney McGruder and Jamichael Green and those guys are still trying to win the game. And so they took care of business and beat Portland. We saw that Philly team the other night once Embed went down. like, okay, beating Philly without M. Bid and Simmons, that's no great test. But like the guys that are playing are fighting you. And so despite the fact that Phoenix has played some hobbled teams or team sitting people, they have just been unbelievable, like truly. And some of these teams, they're just beating the crap out of them.

They just started so far back. They're still like way behind the eight ball right now. But let me tell you something, Kevin. Not way behind. They're right there. They're seen a couple of things that break right for them. They have the percentile edge over the spurs. All I need to do is win out and have the Blazers lose once or the Grizzlies lose twice.

Well, this is their problem. Their problem is the Grizzlies last game against the box. That's their problem. I told you this before this all started. You're right. I saw the eight games and I said, uh, that last. game, A, they won't play their players. B, Taylor Jenkins was just

Bood and Ulster's right hand man. But the Portland aspect is a potential for that. It is. It is. Because it looks like, I mean, we'll see if this actually happens, you know, maybe by the time you hear this, we'll know, but KP and Luca did not play yesterday. Logically, they could play today.

And a game that we already discussed is a game that Dallas should try to win. And if they do try to win this, then they do, then they have that big game on Thursday, and we'll see what happens there too. Now, this is going to, you're going to love this.

And so are the listeners, because they all say, oh, you're just a Memphis home area. I'll tell you this, in the case that it all played out that way, Phoenix, Phoenix would give the Lakers

probably not more problems than Portland. Probably, not more problems than Portland, because Portland's always got a chance when they got those two in the back court. Even though, but their defense has been real crap. But I still think with those two, you would still be able to,

you're going to win a couple games in a series. Against Portland, the Lakers could get their offense all right. They could. The second round, yeah. Phoenix, as they are currently playing, they would absolutely give the Lakers. I mean, look, the Grizzlies don't,

they don't have Jared Jackson, they don't have Justice Winslow, they don't have Tyos Jones. Like, they're starting Anthony Tolliver, for God's sakes. I'm not a nutball here. You know, that Phoenix team, I understand why people are desirous to see a different matchup. Because while I would love to see John Moran get the playoff reps, I understand. The Lakers are going to be a massive favorite over any of these teams, right?

But Phoenix started too far back because right now, if I'm looking at who I, I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't want to see them. I wouldn't. And imagine if they had Baines and Ubrae. It's crazy they could go undefeated and still miss the playoffs. And look back, if you look back and you look at their schedule, I mean, it was not. That was hard.

They had some tough games that they won early on. No, they've had some injury luck or rest luck in the last couple days. But, you know, they won some real legitimate tough games against tough opponents that had reason to try to win and we're trying to win. You also think, and I know that people say this won't happen, but it just does happen with them. The view on them, if they come out here and they go two and six, the view on Phoenix and how they have performed during this restart

versus what it would be if they came out there, just went two and six, is, I mean, honestly, it's the difference. this could have been, frankly, any of the teams. I'm saying if they didn't perform that way. But if they did, your hopes would be very high, like, oh, my, for, say, Sacramento, right? If Sacramento does it, you're like, geez, man, you know, if they add a couple things, if they move some stuff around, then maybe next year they could be a real problem.

Even the Pelicans, think about how much, how down we are about the, the Pelicans had, what most people deemed the brightest future of anyone in the league. And think about how we think about them right now. We think they suck. And it's like, is Zion even going to have like a 10-year career

and like everything about it is bad? So while this restart was only eight games, it does frame everything. And the way they performed, obviously, if they come out and they play like crap, you know, people aren't talking about them next year being dangerous or this year being dangerous. but now it's like, okay, who you like going into next year?

Because if they look anything like they did in this restart next season, they're a problem, a real problem. Yeah, they could go 82 and O. Maybe not 82 and O, but certainly, I mean, it even took like, if we're talking about like the, and A, and I want to give a special shout out because obviously Booker's the biggest start there, Aiton's played well, Bridges, they've all played well. And I said this, it might have, it was the first five games of the season.

I saw them in person and you could tell they were different because of Rubio and Baines and some of the veterans. But Monty Williams deserves an enormous amount of credit. He really does. They play like a totally different team. He has maximized those players. They led the league in assists, right? And I think a lot of people don't realize that. But they did during the season even.

They got destroyed by injury, and you think about them going into, you're walking into a pretty dismal situation with this restart. You were kind of just invited as an extra team, but you got really no chance. And to be in the position where they have a chance, you got to give this guy crazy amounts of credit because that's not easy to walk in with a team that virtually, I mean, I don't know what their odds were

at the very beginning of this, but they were like literally 1% chance. You know? Lowest in the West. Yeah. And now they they got two games left with a chance to make the playoffs. Like Monty Williams, I'd say this, if coach of the year

was voted on right now, he'd get a couple more, he'd at least get a couple looks. Tomorrow on the restart, we're talking about the Phoenix Suns. That's our video tomorrow. It's about the Suns. about the sons going talking about Booker and Monty Williams and DeAndre Aiton's development on defense. So it's coming out as a really good video.

I saw the first cut last night. Dylan Berkey put together, producer at the ringer. It looks great. I'm excited for it to drop tomorrow. We'll see it. We'll see if Phoenix is six and one or seven and no heading into it. But either way, the sons have been a great story.

They play Philly. Yeah. And Philly without Embeded, without Syman's Harris and Horford questionable. Yeah. Unless your guy, Shake Milton takes over. Boy, would you be torn? Oh, by the way, Richardson also out.

What if Jake Milton goes for 45, but it beats the Suns? That would be terrible. That would be something else. Isaac, I'm going to need you to clip that. That was at least three, four minutes of me being very positive about the Phoenix Suns. It's a record, man. So I never want to hear about it again? Continuous minutes of you complimenting the Suns.

This is a first. Look, I'm the Prince of the Prince. fairness. There is no denying. Famously unbiased Chris Vernon. Bro, that son of a bitch shot the ball from 45 feet guarded, and the net didn't move. And I was like, all right, I give up. Like, they're frigging awesome.

I said, this is awesome. Like, you've got to be kidding me. What is this guy shooting? Who is shooting from the friggin' logo with the guy on him? I think if you go back and look at the shocklock, it's not like it won. He held the ball for a while looking for somebody to pass to, and then he's like, ah, screw it. Yeah.

Why not? I guess, hey, when you're feeling it, you're feeling it, right? Like he said, don't shoot to miss. I can't wait to see how this all plays out. And by the time we talk on Friday, we won't know everything, but we're going to have a very good gauge of who is playing who in the playoffs. And we'll also probably know who's playing in a play-in game. We will know the plan.

Saturday. playing aspects, yeah, but we won't know necessarily all the seating for the top seven in each conference is still four games that day, but we will know the weekends playing games, the matchup there, because all that will be determined Tuesday and Thursday

with the schedule. And I'm with you. You know, I know you, you talked about this a little bit earlier. That playing games got to stay. I don't know if it's the same way with the win, you know, the better team has to win two and the other team has to win one. Because I don't know if that's entirely

fair. This year it seemed a little fair to me because there was not an inordinate amount of games separating. But I might have a different view if there is an inordinate amount of games separating 7 and 10. And it's like, wait, like 7 just performed over the course of 82 games way better than the team that you're giving an opportunity to knock them off just by winning two games. Like, that doesn't seem fair.

So I don't know how they do it, but I am a fan of the play in for sure. And this has, there's no doubt, much like when people lamented the wild card in baseball years and years ago, it's made it way more exciting for a lot more fan bases. And league observers at large, you know?

Yes, I'm pumped and jacked. Pumped and jacked. Oh, I can't wait. Look, I just put it in my phone, Kev. Kevin's Phoenix Sun. video. I've got an alert tomorrow. So I can make sure I do it in. If you want an alert, head over to the ringer's YouTube channel.

Hit subscribe. Please, please subscribe to the ringer's YouTube channel. And if you do want to get alerts on your phones, there's that little bell button down at the bottom next to subscribe, hit that and you'll get alerts for some videos or all the videos. You can choose what you want. But it means a lot to us, especially to our video team, if you do go subscribe to the ringer on YouTube.

I'm doing it as we speak. so it'll probably send me an alert. Kevin O'Connor talks Phoenix Suns, and I'll say, get this over my screen. No, I'll watch it. I'll watch it for sure. Kevin, it's always a pleasure.

I am so glad that this has, this whole bubble thing, knock on wood, has turned out to be great, and the basketball has been better than we would have expected. And now, you know, we're going to be talking playoffs. Which is crazy. Playoffs.

Playoffs. Thanks to Isaac Lee as always. And we will talk to you on Friday.