The Ringer NBA Show - Senator Cory Booker on NCAA Reform, Speaking on the Senate Floor, the Criminal Justice System, and Fighting for a Better America | Flying Coach With Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll

Episode Date: July 13, 2020

Steve and Pete provide updates on the upcoming NBA and NFL seasons before welcoming Senator Cory Booker to discuss player exploitation in the NCAA, his fight for criminal justice reform, expanding economic opportunity, and environmental reform. Later he talks about what it was like speaking as a Black man on the Senate floor, his experiences in politics, the complicity of America, and how individuals can help build a better nation. Host: Steve Kerr and Pete Carroll Guest: Cory Booker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Flying coach, welcome back. A little bit of a hiatus, Pete, but we're back after a few weeks. Good to see you. Yeah, it's good to be back. We got the July 4th in the middle of all this, and so we're back at it. We're kind of ready to close it out. And it's been really an extraordinary opportunity for myself personally to work with you, Steve, on this. It's been such a blast and really grateful for the opportunity that we were given to do the work we want to do here. Yeah, I agree. This has been so much fun and it's been fantastic working with you. This will be our last one. You know, we wanted to take a few minutes here before we have our guest, Senator Cory Booker on, who is just brilliant and such an amazing guest. But I just wanted to take a couple of minutes to talk a little bit about the sports world, what's going on today, where the NFL is, where the NBA is, and then share a little bit about these last few months

and why we've done this podcast and where we're heading and we'll roll right in with Corey. Pete, you want to kind of share where you guys are, the Seahawks, the NFL, what's the schedule now going into training camp? Normally you'd be going into camp

what end of July, right? Yeah, it's coming up. Yeah, we're still on schedule at this time. It has not been committed to by the league and the players association yet. But the 21st is when the young guys can show up in the 28th, the veterans will be ready to go to camp. That's kind of been orchestrated by the CBA all along. But there's still agreements that need to be settled. So we're unsettled at this time. We don't know exactly. They've been talking almost on a daily

basis to try to come to agreements on all the different issues. And we're still waiting for confirmation. But in that, you know, I'm hoping that if we, whatever time it takes to do this right is important. There's so much at stake. And of course, everybody wants the football season. I can't even imagine anything but that happening in timely fashion here. But whatever it takes, you know, to get there properly so that we can take care of everyone like we need to. It's not just, there's no one single group. It's players.

It's their families. It's their families. It's their families. Our fans, everyone that is connected here, we want to take every step to do this properly and thoughtfully. And so that once we get back, we can stay back and really put something together. there's still a lot of unanswered questions still. And the 21st is the date that the rookies could officially be with us. They've come in a couple days before that to test their way into the quarantine of it.

And then the veteran players would come in on the 28th would be the first day that they would have their physicals in our first meetings. We're going to be virtual. We're going to do all kinds of things differently than we've done them in the past. But yet we have prepared for that with all of the virtual work we've done in the soft season. So the work we'll do will basically be on the field, walk-throughs in practice. We'll be out on the field and out of the building for other than the absolute minimum that we can put them through. So a lot of considerations. And, you know, as we're watching here, watching basketball and baseball, they're getting started.

It's taking them a while to get started. We need the information that they can bring to us so that we can make good choices and all. And we're starting to gain some stuff. So maybe you can help us with what's going on with basketball. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, 22 teams have gathered in Orlando, the bubble they're calling it. And, you know, I really have a lot of respect for the players and coaches and all the referees and media members. You know, people are making big sacrifices going away from their families.

You know, the two teams that end up, assuming this thing works out and goes to the full distance, two teams that go to the finals will end up being in the bubble for three months, which is just crazy. But this is the world we're living in. these days. Everybody's trying to adapt and figure out their situation. We are, the Warriors are one of eight teams that, because of our record, that, you know, was not invited to Orlando. And so right now, we have our young players coming in, working out individually, one player, one coach at our facility in San Francisco. No team activities are allowed at this point. And then the one thing that's

kind of interesting that I want to ask you about, too, with the NFL is, you know, what makes this a little tricky for the NBA. Every state, every city's got a different set of regulations, health and safety protocols. So how does that manifest itself in the NFL? Like, what, what if the state of Washington has a completely different set of rules in the state of Florida? And Washington says, no, you guys got to shut down. Florida says, no, you guys are good. How does the NFL handle that if once camp starts. Yeah, I don't know exactly how the particulars have come about and if it's settled yet, but I do know that there's been work done from the NFL with the governors of the states to find an agreement on clearance to allow us to go back to the buildings and the

facilities. I think that leads us into the next step, which is having camps and then what happens at the stadiums, that could be very differing from one state to the next. Maybe there will be some states will allow fans to come in on a limited basis in other states that don't. I don't think all of that, I've not seen where that's all set at this point. So that's still in negotiations, I would imagine. There are some states already that have, I know there's three or four of them that have not cleared the way. And so, but I know the league's all over it and they'll figure that out. I can't imagine that they won't come to some kind of agreement, but it could easily happen. Circumstances within a particular state could shift. Just as we've watched, there's so many states that.

in different status right now that could restrict the action. There's a lot of unknowns, and there's a lot of questions to be answered yet, and that's some of the big ones. That's still a ways off. I think we're really going to, let's try to get us to camp right now, and those will be answered later on. But I think, you know, there's a consideration that the states want to make, they want it to happen, just like we all do.

We all want to see football. We all want kids to go back to school. We all work to be. You know, that's the baseline. Everybody gets that. That should not govern what we do. What should govern what we do is doing the right thing to keep our people safe and to make progress and keep people from passing, you know, and all that.

So we have to do whatever we can to do that. Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And we're waiting to hear whether there's going to be a, well, I call it the JV bubble, you know, for the eight teams that didn't make the Orlando bubble. There may be a second bubble in Chicago. The league has talked about it for sometime in September where the other eight teams would gather and be able to practice. Because the one thing that all of the coaches and general managers of the eight teams that aren't

in Orlando, the one thing that's a consensus is it's not good to go nine straight months without playing any basketball, you know, between March of last season and then the beginning of next season in December. So we're trying to figure it out too. But like you said, everything's sort of day to day. and I guess we'll learn from baseball opening days in about two weeks, I think. So we'll see how Major League Baseball does. I've been watching some Premier League.

I'm a Liverpool fan. So I wake up and watch Premier League. They're pumping fan noise into the stadiums, and it's actually been pretty entertaining. So the golf has been good. I don't think you're missing much without fans in golf personally. But it's good to at least, as a sports fan to start getting to watch some stuff on TV again.

We've been so privileged to have so much around us, you know, for entertainment and all. And if in the events that we don't get as much, we're just going to have to suck it up. You know what I mean? We're just going to have to get through it because this is not going to last forever, but it is going to be temporary and it doesn't seem like it now, but we'll be back to things as normal eventually. But in the meantime, everybody's adapting and everybody has to kind of just tough it out and grid it out and suck it up.

And if that's what we have to do, we'll do the same. And, you know, if there is nine months to go, or a whole year goes without us playing our sports, well, it's pretty relative. Everybody's going to be kind of at the same stages. I've always go back to that. And it helps me rationalize that we'll make it, you know, and we'll get back in order and all of that. So let's wish us all the best. Let's stay healthy and stay safe as we're doing this.

That's what's most important right now. Yeah, no doubt. And wear a mask, no matter where you are. Do all of the, follow the science. Do all the right things. Exactly. Yeah. Well, speaking of which,

When we started this back in, I guess, April, early April was our first podcast. You know, the main thing we wanted to do was raise some money for COVID relief. So we put this podcast together. And Spotify made $100,000 donations to the Seahawks Foundation and the Warriors Foundation. We were also trying to think maybe we could keep some people entertained a little bit, talk about our sports, give people a little different perspective on. on, you know, coaching and coaching from two different sports and getting different perspectives on things. And then it really, we started having guests and we had some fantastic guests.

Brene Brown was great. You guys have worked together for the last couple of years, I think, right? Yes, yeah. Helping us be courageous and be vulnerable and all that she was teaching. She coached us up. She was great. And we had a couple of things. baseball guest, Dave Roberts, Scott Boris came on. Bill Murray just volunteered to come on and entertain us, which was great. Just completely changed it up with some humor. And Michael Lewis, the author, we want to thank him as well. We want to thank all of our guests. They were. It blew us away. Yeah. Really amazing. Made awareness. Yeah, it was, it was beautiful. It's always wonderful to hear smart people and their perspective. And, you know, everybody's sort of sitting

in a different seat and observing and it's so fun to get everybody's views. But, you know, really, everything changed a couple of months ago with the murder of George Floyd and the social justice movement that began. And it really shifted the entire focus of this podcast. And the last few weeks have been really emotional and fascinating and illuminating. I thought the, you know, Greg Popovich was incredible. That was a great one. And Doc Rivers, you know, talking about growing up as the son of a policeman in a Chicago suburb. Yeah. Was, I'll never forget his stories and just his perspective. Amazing. Yeah. We've been so fortunate. Everybody's, everybody, everybody, has been a highlight. I go all the way back to Dave when we had baseball, basketball,

and football. That was a thrill for me, you know, that we were representing all the major leagues. I thought that was really something. But Pop really was there right as the event took place, and it gave us a chance for three white guys coaches to help people talk about white issues, black issues, and make sense and learn and go back in history issues and so much stuff we've been, we've been fortunate to touch on. It's been a great thrill. Doc Rivers was really another highlight because Doc was so clear about his upbringing and what it was like to grow up as a young black man with a father that was in law enforcement and what it was like to be from that perspective and how to deal with law enforcement as soon as they walked across the threshold of their little community where they lived and all things changed and oh man it was so much real so much truth and I hope people I hope people were opened up to some of what we need to learn about what's going to going on in the cultures around us and so that it can be more caring and loving and fight for the right things, you know, for all people, you know.

You know, after Doc shared that story talking about, you know, his father saying, look, you're okay right here. I think Maywood was in town. They grew up and he said, you're okay right here. But as soon as you leave Maywood, you know, you got to be really careful because the policemen outside of Maywood are not going to know who you are. And you better be on your best behavior. You better, you better not screw up.

You could be in real trouble. After that podcast, a good family friend of ours texted me and said, I grew up in the next town over from Maywood. And my family said, whatever you do, don't go into Maywood. So think about the irony of, you know, this is a white person, a white family, saying, you know, don't go into Maywood, it's dangerous there. Doc Rivers' father, the policeman, saying, you know, if you leave Maywood, that's where the danger begins. And this whole culture of fear that we all experience at some level.

Yeah. And that was, gosh, 40 years ago we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah, that's a commonplace illustration of white reference and growing up in black reference. in growing up, absolutely opposite of each other. And, you know, in our lives, so many of our years in our lives, we were aware of things, but yet we didn't talk about them. We didn't know how to express our feelings, or we just ignored them, and unrightfully so.

You know, and now we can't do that anymore. And hopefully, Steve, we've been able to, you know, maybe motivate a little bit in people to keep looking and keep studying and open up. We have the fortune. I know we talked about it in one of our shows. early on, about sharing the stories of our players is something that we always go through. Sharing the stories of our players through this virtual year on the internet was extraordinarily impactful and moving. And it is how you can grow in awareness by knowing someone else's

plight in life in their story. And until you have that opportunity, you really can't know. And we can't even experience it, but we can at least embrace it and empathize and make the right decisions to support accordingly, you know, and I just hope everybody at this time, Steve just continues to be open to the world around us where we can realize how important is to love everyone and to care for everybody. And they all need our care and love in all directions. And there's going to, it's calling for a big change because there's a lot of people that don't think that way. And there's a lot of people that you should love these people and those people you don't. And that we have to work our way through that with, you know, with great resolve. And we have to do this. You know,

So I'm hopeful we could, we affected some in some ways through the show. You said it. It's got to be done with empathy and with humility. And then I think the thing I've learned, you know, and Pete, I've watched you in action with the Seahawks. I've sat in on your practices, your meetings, and you've always had this incredible culture where there's this beautiful interaction, human interaction. And I've tried to create something similar with the Warriors. but what I've learned during this time is it's not enough. You know, we've got to go, we've got to dig even deeper.

You know, we've got to really try to understand where our players came from. And, you know, how do you, as a coach, how do you create the culture that allows that sort of conversation to happen organically? I think that's the challenge that coaches face out there, but it's critical because the more we can understand each other. with empathy, with humanity, better chance we have of creating change. And Brene Brown really, she addressed that exact thought when she said that what we have to do is create a container that's available,

to surround your group where it's okay to address all of the issues and express all of your concerns. And that's where we can, and we have to make it so, so that there's an environment where it's okay to take the chance to tell somebody how you actually feel and what it really feels like. And that's where the whole thing about vulnerability is all about.

And that container is to create the kind of a vacuum of courage, you know, where everybody can speak out. And we have to do that way beyond just our own little teams. This has to happen everywhere. And so hopefully we can continue to share that thought and help influence. No doubt. Yeah. No doubt. Coming up next, Corey Booker, just an amazing guest.

And I think the perfect way to kind of finish out this podcast that we've been running the last few months. All right. Our guest today, Corey Booker, Senator from New Jersey, Corey, thank you so much for joining us. So much going on in the world today. And sports and social issues and politics have all converged. It's become a big topic in our podcast. So thank you. Thanks for coming in.

Are you kidding me? I'm grateful. I have so much admiration for the two of you and what you do on and off the court and field. It's your real leaders. And I'm grateful to have this chance to be in dialogue with. That sounds good. But we may be coaching you up a little bit today if that's what you're saying. I appreciate that.

I appreciate it. Listen, you're still trying to get over your sins of your earlier career coaching in the wrong part of the PAC 10. I understand that. That you have, you know, you're living with a lot of guilt. I get that. Yeah, well, you know, I did inherit an issue that Coach John McKay, the Hall of Fame coach at USC, had passed along that the toughest team he ever had to play with Stanford. And year and year out, and I'm telling you, for whatever reason, USC Stanford, they had that deal.

But I do welcome the chance, you know, being a true competitor, the fact that you guys kicked our butt more than you should have. I want to just make sure that we do let it out that you were a pretty darn good football player back in the day, understand a little tight-in action and all that kind of stuff the older i get the better i was and uh but i did get in the end zone against USC which is still one of my uh my my proudest days but i'll tell you one of my favorite moments uh in football was uh it was we were playing down there and you know it's you guys have all this stuff to distract me big screens tell you know it's just like going to hollywood when you're playing USC and and i've been the whole week i've been watching films about, and I knew I was going to

going helmet to helmet against junior Seow. And so it was one of the earliest plays. You know, you have all that adrenaline. I usually don't settle down until after I bang heads a little bit and then settle into a game. And I remember hitting, and I'm also one of these guys

that never fought, you know, never, not a fighter, never, I believe you do it between the whistles and walk back to the huddle. But I, I, everything I had, I coiled up into a ball. I mean, a whole week of stuff. and preparation. I'm coming after this guy and I hit Junior Seow out and it is like hitting a wall. And the whistle blows and I'm still trying to hit him pushing him. And then all of a sudden,

I feel somebody grabbed me from behind. I'm like, oh, this is USC. Somebody's got me from behind. And I look over my shoulders. One of my players who holds me back to the huddle puts me down and he goes, what are you crazy? Don't make that guy mad. Sound advice. We got that sleeping giant. That's right. I've got to brush up on my Stanford football history. So I'm thinking, so this would have been early 90s?

I played late 80s, early 90s. I had two great coaches. I played at the end of the Elway era. And then I got a master's class because I had Denny Green, Brian Billick, Tyrone Willingham, some really just great, great coaches that taught me so much. much about the game and about life. And it just was a blessing for me as I was sort of coming up my own and emerging and sort of really key part of my life when I was deciding sort of where I was going with my life

and had a got a chance to play under those guys. That's cool. You're giving credit to your ball coaches because you've gone a long way since then. Now, man, you've done a lot of stuff. Well, we had said this off. The lessons that you get from sport in every single way, my earliest leadership roles. was, you know, captain of my football team in high school and with a band of brothers going up against impossible odds.

You know, we had one of the most losingest teams before my era in high school. My high school was never known for football. Then we came in our era. We won a state championship. They didn't win another one until 30 years later. But that just, I, that goes, that being forged in adversity and the lessons you learn, it's the foundation of which I stand on. credit football.

First of all, I wouldn't have gotten into Stanford. I just always joke, I got into Stanford because of a 4.0,600. 4.0 yards per carry, 1,600 receiving yards. So I know how I got into Stanford because that was a high school old American in a great year. I think, you know, my USA All-American team had people like Emmett Smith on it and others. I was the most overrated high school football player, I think, in history of the game. So I owe so much the game and so much of what I am right now still leans on the lessons I learned on the gridiron. Isn't that true?

So much of this stuff and we were just built on, you know, in our earlier days, even back to the early days in high school and all, and the challenges to make the teams and the coaches and playing with upperclassmen and how difficult it was, all of those challenges add to, you know, our makeup today. And I know we're all grateful for all of that too. Yeah, and you also know this, and this is what I, you know, Bill Bradley is one of my great life mentors. And I still remember in 92 I was a Stanford. I didn't know Bill Bradley yet, but he gave a speech on the Senate floor about race.

This is in the months around the Rodney King and the verdict and a very painful time for my life. It had been about a decade of my life that I was, you know, my family to move into the town I grew up in, which was sort of these really nice suburbs in New Jersey. they had to get a white couple in 69 that poses them in order to buy the house we grew up in. And the day of the closing, when they revealed the sting operation, the real estate agent took a swing at the real estate agent, punched him in the face, stick a dog on my dad. So all of this rigamarole and we had moved into this town. And, you know, black kids, when they're growing up, you know, young black men, by the time I was 12, 13 years old, I was over six feet tall and began to realize that this, world was going to treat me differently because of my size, because of perceived fear,

and had a lot of elders in my life coming around me, trying to teach me to recognize how I affected other people. And by the time I got a driver's license growing up in a white neighborhood, you see that you get treated differently by the police. Well, by the time a decade, from 1213 to 22, when the Rodney King verdict happened, it was this explosive moment in my life. I literally wrote a column in the Stanford newspaper that is still, they just called me recently and asked me to reprint it because you could use the same article with just separating the name, Rodney King, for many of the names. Unfortunately, we know now. And I just remember that night, the article was called Why I've Lost Control. It was like a decade's worth of just suppressed sort of anger and rage.

And I remember marching. But during that time, Bill Bradley, who gave this great speech on the Senate floor about race. and I remember talking to him later about it and he just said to me as a guy growing up playing for the Knicks how he something about sports when you strip everything away and it's just you and your teammates and you are bonded together with them

in a common cause under you're sweating with them bleeding with them and he said it opened his eyes as a guy from I think he's from Indiana to so much about race and race reality seeing things through his peers and his players' eyes.

And so there's always been something about sports to me for the men who play it, or men and women who play it, that it seems to erode, it seems to deepen levels of empathy and understanding and connection. It has the potential, doesn't always do it, of creating a common cause for ideals of just fair treatment and justice. So I owe sports that,

and I think that sports right now is an opportunity, I loved it. I remember one day in my Senate office flipping through the channels of the different sports channels. And I was just so thrilled that every sports channel I switched to. They were talking about some aspect of this racial reckoning in our country. And speaking in a way that, you know, most of America doesn't watch Fox, doesn't watch MSNBC. They watch sports channels. And for this to be an avenue with which to prick the consciousness of a country, it's a good thing. Corey, did you have a sense of all this when you went off to Stanford? I mean, you go clear across the country. Obviously, you love football. You're excited to play college sports, but you're heading to one of the great universities in the country. Was there a sense that you were heading in this direction with your mind and your career where maybe you get into politics? Did you have ideas at that age? Yeah, you know, Public Enemy had a great song as back in those days, don't believe the hype. And so I may have gotten, I was a really celebrated high school football player, but I didn't, I didn't, you know, I had a very good dose of reality that, you know, in my mind, football was going to be my ticket, wasn't my destination.

And I was going to ride that ticket as far as it could go. But the reason why I picked Stanford, as a guy who got recruited from just about every university out there, I remember looking at USA today's rankings of college school of colleges. And I saw that year they ranked Stanford above Harvard and Yale. And I'm like, if I could get a full scholarship to the best academic school, this will give me yet another part of a brick and a foundation to do what I want to do with my life, which by the time I was ending my freshman year at Stanford, as a football player, I began working that summer,

or staying on campus to work out, but working in East Palo Alto area with incredible young kids from tougher background than I had, that was, that forged in the clarity that I wanted to be involved in the fight for the unfinished business of America. And it comes from having black parents

who were civil rights activists and really raised my brother and I, you know, my parents would say, you know, that we drank deeply from wells of freedom and liberty an opportunity we didn't dig. You know, my dad would be like, boy, don't walk around this house like you hit a triple. You were born on third base.

And you can't pay it back. You've got to pay it forward. So I grew up with this sense that as a black kid, I had incredible privileges handed to me, full scholarship to Stanford, this incredible school that literally people had to bleed for, took a punch for it, to get me to move into that town as a first black family. So I just had this sense that I wanted to do something that I thought. like I was making a contribution to this country. Wow.

Too bad you couldn't get into Arizona, but I'm glad Stanford was your safety school. It seems to have worked out pretty well for you. I think I still literally have a scar on my back from playing Arizona. That's some great parts of the Pact 10, now Pact 12 as well. But what a privilege it is, as you guys have found out, to make sport your career, career. One thing I love and respect about the two of you is that it may be your career, but it's only part of a larger mission that we all have in life. And people who are blessed to play at the echelons and you guys have coach at the echelons who understand that that's a lot of

power and privilege and that we all have an obligation to use our power and privilege to help others. That to me is what, you know, as I learned in my life, it's not what you do, whether you're working on Wall Street or teaching in the high school, it's what you are able, how many people you were able to impact to make a difference in the lives of it's even along your journey. So I appreciate you guys living with that spirit and especially during these times. You know, you touch on something for us, Corey, like the reason that Steve and I got together to do this podcast, well back, I don't know, it was back in April, I guess, we started talking about it Because, you know, to see if during these times, you know, everybody's kind of shut down,

maybe we could help the whole COVID situation, raise a little bit of money, but also just get on the topics and the subject matter that might be able to share the experiences that we've had and how we've seen things. And then as the world continued to shift, it's so many things continued to happen. Our topics just jumped into some really, really crucial areas of conversation. And, you know, as white guys coaching in this business, we've been coaching and black kids our entire life. We've been, my coaching career is a little longer than Steve. It's just been such an avenue into the inside look at young men's lives and their backgrounds and

their families and their histories that have given us an opportunity to understand the world in a unique way for white guys. And in a way, hopefully we have been able to influence and help and will continue to do so. So we really appreciate you contributing with this because this is really what we came here to do in this particular project. Well, I appreciate your guys' humility. It's amazing how in a time where so much toxic masculinity where people don't want to apologize,

think they have all the answers, the way you guys are going about it in a humble way, I've listened to you. And it's inspiring to me that you are these guys who are, in many ways, for all us guys, you are the echelon of sort of achievement. All of us love sports. All of us revere the great athlete.

Yet you guys are humble. You're saying to yourselves, we're trying to get it right. We're wrestling with this stuff. We're trying to learn more. We're trying to grow. But that, that to me is a spirit that actually, in fact, there's a great judge, learn in hand, who talk, give this great speech where he talks about what this country really means. And he says it's not our founding documents.

Lots of countries have great constitutions. Lots of them have written them. It's really the spirit of liberty they talk about. And he says that the spirit of liberty is never, never too sure that it's right. And he really goes to this great idea that we are at our best as a country when we're humble before each other, God's creations, and have a spirit of empathy and love for each other. And I think you guys evidenced that spirit in a way that shows that you could be strong, tough, winning at sports, but also be in awe of other people, whether they're your, teammates or the people that play underneath you and that you know that you have something to learn from them and contribute to them as well. I think that's beautifully said. And I think that's been one of

the things that's really jumped out at both Pete and me, you know, over the last couple of months as we've explored the social issues that are happening around the country. We've had Greg Popovich on. We've had Doc Rivers. We've had some great conversation. But, you know, Pete talked about being around black guys his whole coaching career. You know, and I played with black guys starting from junior high on high school all the way through my NBA career. Now, of course, coaching in the NBA. But I got to tell you that I feel like this last month or six weeks has been so eye-opening

for me that as much as I thought I knew, just because I've been around black culture, it has been extremely humbling to understand. how much we didn't know. And, you know, we've talked a lot about the real African-American history that we just haven't learned in this country, some of the atrocities that have occurred to the African-American communities that we just sort of push aside. And it's, I think it's, you know, when you're in sports,

and Pete knows this, there's a natural humility because, man, no matter how good you are, you're going to take some lumps. Yeah. And so I think this has been a really good time for every coach and every athlete because it's a time for reflection and a time for us to really kind of realize, oh my God, we got a lot to learn. Yeah, look, America, we have a problem. We don't like telling the truth about our history.

We think that often by lionizing it, glorifying and covering over the wretchedness and the dark corners and the pain and the trauma, that somehow that makes us better, a Disneyland version in a sense where it's more comforting to us. But the reality is we actually are better as a country when we confront our imperfections, when we confront the trauma and the hurt. We actually help more not only to heal, but towards what has always been an unfulfilled aspiration for us to be a great multicultural democracy that's not based. We're not a theocracy where we're based on a common religion.

were not a nation, it was based because we all looked alike, cradle-like, descended from the same branch of the family tree. We broke with the course of human events to form a country that was founded in these principles. And those imperfect geniuses who put these ideals down on paper where they succeeded was not just throwing off the yoke of the British, but they succeeded in setting a standard even beyond their reach. but that gave every generation a chance to reach more for it. The problem has been that we've trampled over, I think, a lot of the richness of the history by first confessing how far we were away from our goals.

I mean, even our founders called Native American savages. Women were not equal citizens. Blacks were enslaved. But that forgetting of our history, I think, has really set us up for a tragic present that we have to reckon with. And so I appreciate it. And it's not even African-American history, it's American history.

And it's been weird for me as a black guy to, during my presidential run, I went down to Tulsa thinking I knew already about Black Wall Street. But when I actually got there to the Greenwood community and saw that this was 35 blocks, my staff had these pictures because I started breaking down crying. I just felt the grief rising from the from the from the bricks that were still in the area of just a history. How I could not have known was a you know degrees in history, graduate degree in history. And most of America doesn't realize that in the better part of the 20th century there were massacres from Rosewood to Colfax and Louisiana to Tulsa. These are just aspects we don't know. But for us as I should say us, you guys, me as a former athlete, but you all, us in the athletics. You know, there's a tough history of race and racism in sports, and

these are issues that we have to deal with. And one that I'm grappling with right now that I know affects you all, and you probably have strong thoughts on it, is just the NCAA. And a lot of the rules that have allowed what I believe is the exploitation of athletes. You know, I was a middle class kid that went out to California to play, and my parents could send me money because scholarship didn't cover everything that we had, that there was. But I watched around the league, the NCAA, rather, kids who weren't going to his reputable schools that would do two years, contribute to the money-making enterprise, blow out their knee,

and then their scholarship would be gone and they'd be bounced out. I have friends of mine today that are paying medical bills for injuries that they sustain when they're athletes. I was a guy that when I added up the hours during my sport, it was like a full-time job or more. In fact, if we were traveling 60, 70 hours, and yet after four years, a lot of young guys aren't allowed to stay on scholarship,

even though they made a lot of money to get their degree. And so the level at which lower-income athletes who then do make a mistake, try to sell a jersey just to make some N-V, suddenly get a different, get crushed by the NCAA and their career's gone, or even friends of mine who watched their images and likenesses being used far after their college career or video games while

they weren't making any money and they didn't make it to the big leagues, but colleges were still profiting off of their name, selling their jersey or video games still had their likenesses. These are the kind of things that, to me, are really problematic and I think are still sort of vestiges of issues that we should deal with as a country. and I'm interested. I haven't heard what you guys think about a lot of the name and image and likeness, which creates a lot of complications, I think, for the league. I talked to Coach Shaw at Stanford as a classmate teammate of mine.

I'd a really good heart to heart to him about the potential downside if we create a situation where certain leagues that can afford it can create revenue streams for some athletes while others can't, and what that might do to breaking up. at the NCAA competition in basketball, in football, and sort of a lot of the money-making sports. But I think this is an era where we have to reckon with now that's being forced now that Florida has passed their state law.

It's going to force Congress, where I sit, to now come up with an idea. And I'm having really direct conversations with senators that I, for one, am not willing to deal with the name, image, and likeness issue alone without dealing with the health care issues that I think the NCAA has failed to come up to deal with. The educational issues, I personally think a scholarship faculty should be given six to eight years

to come back and get their degree, not dealing with a lot of the issues around, frankly, just the fact how easy it is for these kids to lose your scholarship. It should be a four-year scholarship or five-year scholarship, not a one-year renewable one. A lot of these rules to be seem archaic, and I want to try to force some of these reforms into this moment.

You know, Corey, the injustice that we're dealing with just in the social side of things just runs throughout our entire society. And then here it is, here it is again, the naivete to go through all of the years of college sports and being, you know, playing and then coaching it and all, to not realize that there was injustice that was being carried out with all the money that was being made and all of that. It's just hits you right between the eyes again, that wherever the money is involved, that we just continue to find.

ways to abuse and corrupt and take advantage of less and less fortunates. And it's just such a, it's just a humanity issue that we're dealing with. But I couldn't agree with you more that the overlooking of the value of the athletes and how they are so responsible for the product in the event and all of the, the rejoicing that follows all that. It's the same thing in the NFL to me. The NFL players to not be recognized for all that they have made this league to be, for them still to feel like they're working for other people.

I wish that the athletes were respected to the point where they were recognized for all of their input and then compensated however need be and whatever. There's issues in every direction in the college world. And I know it's admirable that you're going after it. And everybody realizes there is such injustice here as well. How we settle it. I don't know. This is such a monstrous problem.

You know much more so the difficulties of finding ways into changing policy and creating some kind of formula and format where this is all, you know, just and all of that. But it's just amazing that we're dealing. Your entire career now in politics is just, it's just one after another. You've got battles in every direction, whether you're battling reform in the prisons or you're battling health care or you're battling, I mean, all of the different environmental and justice, all the different things that you fight for.

It's incredible how much work there is to be done. Good gracious. We admire the heck, Addy, for all that you put forth in your end. end of it, man. Steve, what do you think about the whole college thing? You know, I think, if anything, this is a really good time for the NCAA to take a long look. I mean, I think it's a time for all of us to take a deeper dive into whatever we're doing. Can we be better? Whether it's just, you know, what your job is, can you be better at your job? Can you adapt to the circumstances? or do we need structural change, whether it's in the criminal justice system or the NCAA

with the system of athlete compensation or there's a, you know, whatever business you're in, I think now's the time to really examine it. My feeling is that the NCAA has to come to grips with reality. The Olympics did so. You know, remember 30 years ago, you know, before the dream team came aboard, you literally had to be an amateur athlete to perform in the Olympics. You couldn't make a dollar. And it just became so ridiculous.

And the Olympic committees around the world kind of figured it out. They said, all right, we can let our athletes make money doing commercials and still compete. And the Olympics did not lose popularity. It didn't affect at all. If anything, they gained popularity. And so I think there's a system.

Maybe it's modeled after the Olympics. you know, pick your star athlete, whether it's Trevor Lawrence at Clemson or or Tua, you know, at Alabama last year, a guy like that who is clearly making a ton of money for his school. If he wants to, you know, sell his name or likeness, and it doesn't even have to be paid for from the school, right? Because the schools all have to pay for 25, 30 different sports. So to me, it's not even about the NCAA saying, hey, the school's. have to pay the athletes. It's more about the NCAA saying the athletes can make money elsewhere if they so choose, right? So if they want to do a commercial, if they want to get sponsored by

Nike or whatever, we can find a way to make that work. And if you say, well, that's not going to work. It's going to cause all kinds of problems. Look at all the problems we already have with all the rules that are being broken. So I think there's an answer somewhere in that realm. One of the really difficult challenges here is to control the people outside of the players that can be affected by their success and they want to get in on it and they want it for the same old reason to go and see where they can make some money on young kids. It becomes a praying on the athletes in their positions and their opportunities. It's really ugly and it's at the source of it's not the kids in the school that are making the problems. It's the people that are enticing them into different

avenues. Who would ever have thought I could make up jerseys to sell them? Somebody else thought that and brought it to the kids and tried to take advantage of. It's a very difficult area. And, you know, go back to our SC days, we had some real difficulties that were forced by adults from the outside that wanted to get something out of the success of a young man and young athletes. And it's a difficult area for sure. There's nothing easy about it. Yeah, I agree. And there's some basic things I'd love to see the NCAA. And that's what's been stunning to me in this period, was that the NCAA hasn't made a proposal. Some leagues have.

I know the PAC 12 put some things forward about not one year renewables, four year scholarships, or covering the health care in a better way than it's being done right now for people that might find themselves 10 years later with some kind of traumatic brain injury or I still have some shoulder issues

and, you know, these things are, if you don't have the resources, I've got good health coverage to have the universities cover this kind of stuff. But you're right, it opens up some very difficult realities. Look, when I was recruited, it was kind of the Wow, While West in the 80s about the ways they were trying to seduce 17-year-old kids to make decisions.

And, you know, the NCAA cracked down on that and curtail that process a little bit. I know you know it well, Pete. But I just, I really do worry what I watched, some of my team members were far more talented than me. They never really made it in the NFL. God, if they had earning capacity in those three or four years that they never got to realize, even though they were household names and people, other people were profiting off with their likeness and their image, but by the time their career got a chance to the NFL washed up, but they could have made a lot of money in those years.

They could have put them into a far better economic security. So I hope that the NCAA will be a better, good faith grappler. me and some other senators have been really disappointed by them not coming forward with any kind of vision for the health, safety, well-being of their athletes better than it is now. Corey, I think, you know, Pete said there's just so many different ways that you can go to try to improve society. When you're a member of the Senate and so many different options and so many things going on, how do you individually and as a body come to. to agreement on what to discuss and what to move to the side. How does that work? Well, that's great because that is, you, you said it right with two different questions. One is, where to you as an individual go? And then how does the body sort of governance direction?

So as an individual, look, I represent a state and I try to keep New Jersey interests at the center of what I'm doing. And so that means everything from becoming an expert in infrastructure. You know, it's not the sexiest conversation. Maybe that's the reason why it's taking me so long. to Wu, my significant other to move in with me, because all I wanted to do is talk about infrastructure. But you know, you focus on those areas that are really important for your state. And, but for me, I also, you know, look, I made the decision in my life when I was coming out of Yale Law School to move into this incredible place and newer.

I always say I live in a community where we don't mistake in wealth with work. I moved into a low-income neighborhood. The area I live in now is the census about 10 years ago had the median family income was about $14,000 per household. And I wanted to keep the people that first elected me in this community that was a city council person representing where I live now, really at the center. And so much about this is this ideas of equality and justice

and expanding economic opportunity, educational opportunity. And so I let that guide a lot of the things I do as an individual center, as Pete Generously had said before, focusing on criminal justice reform, focusing on environmental injustice, so many of our low-income Americans. In fact, the race now is still the number one indicator in America, whether you're going to drink dirty water, breathe dirty air,

live around a superfund site. And so a lot of those issues drive me forward as well, these issues of how do we make our nation be who we say we are. And then I'm just a big believer that, like, I feel like I was blessed as you two were to get a fair shot at nurturing the best that God gave me. And I like this idea of expanding opportunity to give people, you know, the greatest natural resource any country has now in a global knowledge-based society isn't oil, gas, or coal. We live in a knowledge-based economy. It's the genius of your children.

And there's as many geniuses born in South Central per capita as born in Beverly Hills per capita, but in Beverly Hills per capita. But in Beverly Hills, you have a much better chance of cultivating that genius where kids can better achieve their dreams. And it really is going to be determined upon your sweat, your character, your commitment. So a lot of my work is just trying to make sure that wherever a child is born, that they have chances for human flourishing. And that's better for the whole. But as far as the body as a whole, look, that's determined by elections. It's whoever's in the majority is going to decide what's the agenda. Like, I'm upset.

We could pass a common sense gun safety bill out of the Senate right now because the majority of NRA members believe that we should have universal background checks in America, that if you are convicted of threatening to kill your wife or if you are on a terrorist, no-fly list, you shouldn't be able to buy a gun in America. Most Americans agree with that, Republican or Democrat, but Mitch McConnell, who leaves the Senate, won't put the bill on the floor for a vote, where it would probably pass. So that's why I say elections matter because whoever, whichever party is in the majority gets to determine what the agenda of the United States Senate is. And I've been frustrated these last years watching bipartisan efforts be stymied by not being able to get to the Senate for.

And so this is going to be an election in 2020. I know a lot of eyes are on Donald Trump, but probably just a little less important or maybe of equal importance is going to be who is in the majority. in the United States Senate. And there's a races from Arizona, Colorado, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia. They're all going to combine to determine which way the Senate goes. And that's why I'm spending a lot of work. I'm up for re-election this year as well, but I'm spending a lot of work trying to help a lot of other people around the country. Corrie, you know what attracted my family to your causes was this commonality, not of the things that you've chosen to speak on and to support and fight for, but the consistency of where the message comes from, such a compassionate,

such a caring, such an empathetic and a loving spot, that everything that you speak on and stand for demonstrates that great connection that you have to your heart. For the people that are listening, if you want to learn some stuff about the world, do you want to follow where Cory Booker has been and what he talks about and all? There's so many great things. But Corey, I'd never heard you, this is my opinion, never heard you so passionately expressing the core of your being as you did in those couple days that happened in June. And there was one on June 3rd, one on June 4th when you got on topics. And they really were about race. And one was about the anti-lynching bill that you were fighting for and the frustration that you ran up against with a single opposition.

And how you spoke there. But then also when you were just talking about, you know, do you see me? That whole thought is so at the core of what Steve and I were hoping to convey and try to make people understand what is at stake here and what is at hand here in dealing with race. And how can we, you know, make proper steps to support the new empathy and the new learning we need in our culture and all. Could you honor us by just sharing the thoughts? about that that speech about, you know, do you see me just to share with our listeners? You know, what was it to court? I'm going to, if you don't mind, Corey, I'm going to, we're going to play a clip from that speech

because it was so powerful. And let's play the clip and then have you respond off of the clip, if you would. Sure. It's why so many black Americans scream out, do you see me? I do not have your equal justice under law. Do you see me? I do not have justice for all. Do you see me?

I matter. I matter. Black lives matter. Black bodies matter. America, I love you. Do you see me? Do you know my experiences? Do you see the failings of our ideals?

The murder of a black man. by multiple cops who knew they were being filmed in broad daylight is not the extent of the problem of racism in America. It is a final and deadly manifestation of that racism. Wow. That's powerful stuff. And as Pete mentioned, there were several, you had several moments in front of the Senate equally as emotional.

And I know the last couple of months, the events, the movement itself has brought a lot of emotion for all of us. But speaking as a black man in front of the Senate, it must have been one of the biggest, most significant moments of your life, I would think. Yeah, look, I'm just, people might not realize this. I'm just the fourth black person ever properly elected to the Senate. Before me, it was Barack Obama, before that Carol mostly brawn, and before the first. that Edmund Brook, and you can't walk into that body without feeling the history that came before you, and how in many ways you are still anomalous in the longer history of that body. And you feel this obligation to try through your lived experience to bring light onto the

lived experience of tens of millions of Americans who have not often had a chance to speak from that floor or representative to speak to their experiences. And I felt it a number of times. I remember after the Ferguson uprisings speaking to my own caucus in private, there are no cameras. And I'll never forget the then-Senator of Maryland, Barbara Mikoski, comes up to me and just implores me because at that point I was trying to be, I just got to the Senate, I was trying to keep my not-speech show.

I was going to be a workhorse and not a show horse, but she implored me to speak more, that you have an experience here that's unique and you need to let people understand it because you'll move people. And so this has been a time where just trying to get folks to understand that we in America, and W.B. Du Bois said this, that one of the good tragedies of our countries that we know is a little of each other. And somehow we've grown comfortable, and through our comfort, we've grown complicit in the suffering of fellow Americans.

know what I talked before about environmental injustices. I mean, we have 3,000 jurisdictions in America where children have more than twice the blood lead levels of Flint, Michigan. And that's that's a vicious, permanent brain damage. We literally have hundreds and hundreds of thousands of our children drinking water. We don't seem, we're drinking dirty water. We don't seem to have a national sense of urgency. It would be a fraction of what we've just spent on these bailout packages, these COVID packages, to replace every lead service line in America that goes to schools in the classrooms where we don't have an urgency to do that. We have a nation that is an abhorition amongst industrial nations for the amount of women that die in childbirth.

Overall, where the have the highest maternal mortality rates, but black women die at about four times out of white women. And even when you control for economics, black women are much more likely to die. And I can go through all of this. I mean, the criminal justice system is a trail of tears. You know, we have a nation that's no difference between blacks using drugs or dealing drugs, but African Americans are about four times more likely to be arrested for those things. We have young people getting life sentences for doing things that two of the last three presidents admitted to doing. And when I say life sentences, you don't get a life sentence for a possession of marijuana or possession with intent to sell, but you get a life sentence in the

sense that after that, you can't find a job, you can't get a business license, you can't get a loan from a bank. And the outrage in the fact that we are now, because of this criminal justice system that is Brian Stevenson, says, treat you better if you're rich and guilty than if you're poor and innocent. We have a nation that now has more African Americans under criminal supervision than all the slaves in 1850, 1860. And, you know, I posted something on my Instagram last night about the president who has absolute pardon power and pardoning one of his friends who says I wasn't going to turn on the president. And then it was compared right next to a kid in Khalif Browder who was a kid that was in Rikers. Now, I went to Rikers, interestingly enough

with Jared Kushner's dad, Charlie Kushner, who had come out of prison. I knew him from New Jersey. We went to Rikers. And it was the first time I saw the stunning reality that there are children in America that languish in prison for months. Gleafrado was there over two years, never been convicted, but they just can't afford a lawyer like my parents would have afforded for me to get them out. Gleaf Browder was in prison in solitary confinement for more than two years for stealing a backpack. That's not equal justice. And that unequal justice grinds African-Americans communities into poverty.

Vanderbill University studied our over-encarcerations at America as a whole would have 20% less poverty, if we have equal incarceration rates. It grinds our country into torture. What we do to children in prison, solitary confinement, literally psychological professionals will tell you it does permanent damage to your brain, brings about mental disorders. So I can go on about these things that happen. But I'll end with this idea of complicity, that we are all complicit. We are all responsible. If something's going on, our nation, especially if it's being done in our name. Remember, our criminal justice system does things in our name. It's the people versus or the state versus. If we are silent

in the face of injustices, you know, we pick your great leader from the past, as one greatly or one said, the only thing necessary for evil to be triumphant is for good people to say nothing. And I know this because up the street from where I live, who are these high-rise projects, which I moved into for almost a decade. And I watched these kids grow up there, and this crew of kids that hung out in the lobby, they were brilliant and athletic and charismatic and genius children. Most of them are now dead. Shahad Smith was the last one killed in 2018 with an assault rifle.

When I called the police officer, they said it was like his head blew up when the bullet hit it. But the first child had died. was one of the biggest mistakes I feel like I've made in my life because when I, Hassan Washington was sort of the leader of this crew who, um, when I walked in and these, these kids were still in high school and I remember smelling marijuana. But again,

black kids in inner city don't have the same freedom to use marijuana as kids at Sanford did, which I saw so much drug use when I was at Stanford. And so I tried, I intervened with them for a while, is trying to get the mentors and, and put them together with, uh, people that would help them achieve their dreams,

but I didn't follow through because I got too busy. We're all busy people. I was running for office. I was running for mayor at the time. And these kids, knowing I had made commitments to them, but they were still my friends. I was still calling the lobby,

having not followed through on some of the things I said I would do, but they knew I was busy. They knew I was running for office. And they cheered me on. They would lift me up at night. Well, I eventually got elected mayor, had death threats against me.

They posted police officers all around me, including in the lobby where I lived. And so the kids, hang out there. And I'll never forget the first murder, one of the early murders in when I was in office, when I went down, didn't even pay attention to that much of the humanity dead on the sidewalk covered by a sheep. I ministered to the living, went home that night, and I still remember seeing the murder, the name of the person murdered, and it was Hassan Washington. And I still remember that was in one of those moments that something broke inside of me that could never be fixed.

and where you are just thrown into this sense of shame that I am here, and all three of us are here. But because of, you know, my dad was born poor to a single mom and his family couldn't take care of him. There were people in the community that did it. When he needed a home to live in a family, I consider them now my family. They took him to their house.

My father wasn't going to go to college. There was a community that made him go to. In fact, the church took a collection, so my dad could enroll in an HBCU. When he got out of college, it was, again, blacks and whites through the Urban League that helped the black people get jobs at companies that refused to hire them beforehand. My dad became one of IBM's first black salesmen in the country,

their first one in the Virginia area, and did incredibly well. He got opportunity and thrive, became one of their top 5% of their global salesmen. Then he goes on to move to New Jersey. I told you the story already. Blacks and whites helped my family. move into the town I grew up in. And so here God had put my father right at front of me.

He had just as charismatic as my dad, the same wit, the same humor, the same leadership abilities. And unlike the town that wrapped themselves around my dad, I failed to live up to that. And so I say this to you to say that there are black children dying all over America. It is a commonplace thing. When I wrote about this moment in my book where I said, when we all got together for his funeral, we were packed in there for what is now an almost daily American tradition, black boys in boxes. And I just remember all of us showed up for his death, but where were we there for his life. And so here we live in a country where that black boy born in America, it's most likely, more likely going to be drinking dirty water, more likely

going to be living around a super fun light, more likely be traumatized by the sound of gunfire. This last 4th of July we had, you know, kids that have trauma. hide under beds when they hear fire practice. It's more likely to go to a school that's not as equally funded as schools where white kids go, is more likely to face a criminal justice system that will stop him, harass him, accuse him of stealing things. This I know intimately because it happened to me. I could go through the things that are going to happen, but the question ours, what are we doing about it? We cannot as Americans put our hand over our heart and swear an oath with our words

that we are going to be a nation of liberty and justice for all, and yet be willing to sacrifice nothing for that. And you said the word love, Pete, and it is the most powerful force on the planet. It's the only salvation we have, but people seem to think that love is this saccharine sentimentality or that you love people that look like, you pray like you are in your family.

That's not the love we herald in America. Love is sacrifice, it's service to others, it's storming beaches in Normandy, It's going on freedom rides, knowing you get beaten for other people that you don't know. That's the ideals of our country. And right now, we have become too comfortable with injustice. We've become too adjusted to injustice in our country. And it demands.

And the most urgent thing we have right now is this poverty of empathy, where we don't even know the conditions of our brothers and our sisters. Because I know we have a deep reservoirs of love in this country that if we just knew, if we paid attention, if we listened, if we heard, then we might be willing to act in accordance with that highest ideal of love. Yeah, Greg Popovich had a great phrase to describe what you were just talking about. He called it the accident of birth. You know, by accident of birth, the three of us are right here talking on this podcast right now.

And by the accident of birth, Hassan Washington was born into the situation that he was born into. And here we are, right? It's sort of, it's just the lottery. Do you win the lottery or not? Are you born into a situation where you can succeed or are the odds just stacked against you? And I think for a lot of Americans, it's just easier to shut our eyes because these things are so disturbing. And so a lot of the strategy, frankly, of a lot of politicians is just to kind of do what you've talked about beginning of this podcast, Corey, is just focus on all the, all the great things

about our country. And there are some wonderful things. But we can't just live these side-by-side realities. They have to become one. And I think that's the challenge. And boy, we sure appreciate everything you're doing to try to create that change to become that one country we're looking for. Yeah, Corey, you are the champion. of a new empathy. And you're not just doing it just to be a good guy or because, you know, you feel for people. It's because you know that there's, that is the connection that's going to make the difference. And until it becomes an emotional connection that we're striving to accomplish where we really do feel the people around us, all people, and we can respond to them

accordingly and justly and with all of the right heart and intent, that's what you stand for in my eyes. Please keep doing the work you're doing and keep fighting for what you're fighting for. Because you're fighting for the right stuff, and we need you so desperately. Well, both of you have been really good to me and have been friends and help. I tell you, Pete, when I was in the grind of a presidential campaign and I was up in Seattle, and I went to this incredible woman's collective workspace. And the last person I expected to see there was Pete Carroll. And it was the first time I met you.

And I was so stunned to see you. And again, your humility and your grace was so incredible. And Steve, you as well, we have mutual friends that were telling me that you were saying nice things about me and led to us connecting. So, look, a lot of times we point fingers in other people's responsibility. But if I can leave you, I know we're overtime now, but if I could leave you with just one more story, because I think that this is the idea, it's the time in America that we shouldn't be thinking about what is government going to do or what are other going to do is just what can I do? And we can all do a little bit more. And I always just tell the funny story in my own neighborhood

as a guy that speaks about love and empathy and all of this that one day I was driving home about three blocks from here. I don't know if you guys have these out west, but in Newark we have these places called McDonald's. I don't know if you ever heard those at all. But I'm a vegan, but I was going there for the French fries. And I drove into the, you know, and I had a guy that was driving me when I'm working in Newark

and we drive it in the drive-thru. I get my two French fries. All I want to do is come and buckle my pants, go home, sit on the couch, watch TV. And I see a guy sort of digging in a trash can. And so I roll down my window and I say, hey, man, you're all right. And he tries to wave me off. And, you know, I say it again in a way to sort of see his equal dignity in mind and sort of in the light spirit, hey, man, you need anything.

And he turns right and goes up hungry. And just like you guys, we all would do this. You know, my faith, I think the Bible says something about if you have two McDonald's french fries and your neighbor has none. You should give them one. I think it was a sermon on the McMount. And so I give the guy my French fries. I feel good about myself.

And I turned to Kevin thinking Kevin's going to drive. But before Kevin could drive, the guy says, excuse me, do you have any socks? And I don't carry any socks around my in my car. And I look at him, sort of vainly look around and say, I don't have any socks. And he looks sad, but still grateful for the French fries. I turned my head thinking Kevin was going to drive now, and Kevin doesn't drive.

He puts the car in park and reaches between his legs and down below the steering wheel, takes off the shoes he's wearing, takes off his socks, and hands him out the window. And at that moment, the guy looked like he had just got something that was worth its weight in gold, and I got a great lesson in life that, you know, every moment, every day, we have chances to touch people. But it takes moral imagination. It takes same center. I was three blocks from my home, have socks I probably haven't worn yet, but I didn't see in that very moment.

And so this is the kind of creative empathy that we need in this moment, is not to wait for other people, but to try to do something ourselves. And frankly, you guys are doing that right now. Through our private conversations and watching you on this podcast, grapple with these issues,

and you guys have so much reach and so much influence. A lot of us use our privilege for ourselves and our families, but you guys are doing it in a way right now that is so important and just having me on today and having this kind of rich conversation. I'm grateful to you and I'm just thankful. And Steve, I know you're upset because I won a national championship in basketball. I don't know if you do that. I'm the only person in Congress was a starting member of a national championship basketball team. Now, let that settle in for a moment before I tell you the fullness of the story is that it was the British National Championship, because I

played for the Oxford varsity team in England. But I know you're still jealous of my, that I achieved at the glory of being a national champion, and you did not. In an area that, you know, if you're an American, they spot your 10 points just out of humility. That's right. So were you a Rhodes Scholar?

Is that what you were doing in Oxford? Yeah, I was. I was one of the last great Jock Road Scholars. scholars, not one of the genius Rhodes scholars. But yeah, I got a chance to live over there for a couple of years. And it was finally after all those years of being

a football player who this is true also that I led my league in high school and fouled. I think I fouled about every out of every high school game because making that transition from football to basketball is always hard. I finally got to

live my dreams of being a great basketball player in a country where the level was a lot lower. The hackbooker. I love it. Well, every team needs a level of physicality. I know that. Yeah, I was the enforcer.

That's right. That's right. Thank you, Corey. Thank you so much. Good luck. Good luck with everything you're doing and amazing to chat with you today. Thank you, fellas. Calling us if we can help.

If we can ever help you, call us, all right? We'll do. Thank you both, gentlemen. All right. Take care now. Bye-bye. All right. Bye-bye.

he makes us proud and he's just such an amazing person what a great american amazing amazing appreciate you man it's been awesome it's been a blast been fantastic yeah really has i've had a blast maybe way more fun than we thought it would be you know i mean i know we look forward to it it was fun to do it it was fun to prepare it was good to have something to prepare you know that's right as we're sitting here in the summertime uh it's the least we could do you know and and we just keep working to do more and wish you the very best let's make sure we we share our times if we get going and cranking and you won't come visit us come on in again we'd love to have you let's do it let's do it i can't wait to see it again i can't wait to see the warriors back in action man all right

all right all right take care of thanks you too