The Ringer NBA Show - Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Is a Budding Superstar. Plus: Why Would Anyone Trade for Andre Drummond? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: January 14, 2020

We review Shai Gilgeous-Alexander’s historic triple-double and look at what the Clippers gave up when they sent him to OKC (1:04), before discussing the Lakers-Clippers regular-season dichotomy (9:33). Then, we talk about two of the hottest teams in the NBA: the Mike Conley–less Jazz and the Memphis Grizzlies (23:01). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. Winging It with Vince Carter and Annie Finberg is back in full swing for its second season. Catch up on recent episodes with guests like Wycliffe John, who talks about growing up in Haiti, hip hop as a teacher, and performing with a goat. And you can hear from tennis phenom, Cocoa, Goff on beating Venus Williams at 15 years old. You can listen to Winging It on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me, C. Des every Tuesday from The Ringer.com. Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Conflit, Kevin O'Conflit, Kevin O'Conflit, Kevin O'Conflitland, Kevin O'Brien. Bevanoh. Burdow. What's up, man? How you doing this morning? Well, last night was the big national championship in college football. Congratulations to LSU. But there was a bunch of NBA action

going on, not the least of which was the Oklahoma City Thunder getting the win, but out of that win, you had Shee Gildjellgers-Alexander making history. monster, monster night. In fact, ends with a 20 rebound triple double, the youngest player to ever post a 20 rebound triple double breaking a 26-year-old record held by Shaquille O'Neal. And we need to talk about this kid because he has had what is an unbelievable season so far playing for Oklahoma City. It is only his second year in the league.

he was very good as a rookie last year. But so far this year, he is averaging 20 points, almost six rebounds, three assists and a steal per game, all while shooting 47% from the field, 34% from three. Did you see this coming? Not this soon in the way we saw it last night, Chris. I think with Gilgis Alexander, when he was in the draft, the big question with him was, how real is his shot? And last year, working with Sam Cassell and the LA Clippers,

he did improve his shot off the catch, shot 37% on catch and shoot threes, shot better with a smoother form off the dribble. And that is translated this year. One of the reasons why he's more of a threat from the outside, which has opened up his slippery, smooth game on drives. And we saw, I mean, boy, some of the finishes he had around the rim last night, just contorting his body, extending his arm,

he can finish against any length player, any size player from any angle. He's so good. And the shot opened up everything for him on offense. I think I would go as far to say at 21 years old for Oklahoma City, he's having a better 21 year old season than Russell Westbrook did. Whether he ends up better than Westbrook or not remains to be seen. But I do think he's already shown at his young age that he is a guy who is a winning player. We saw it in the playoffs last year

as a rookie with just the amount of intelligence he displays on the court with his decision making, the feel he has and the pick and roll, the reliability he has on the defensive end. And he's translated that this year with a better turnover rate. He's not falling as much.

He's drawing more free throws and he's shooting even better off the catch. So we are seeing the emergence of a star in a guy who was all already a winning impact player who certainly has a chance to be a better point guard for the Oklahoma City Thunder and what they want to be moving forward than what they were with Russ. What's crazy to me is every time I think about this kid, so I know a lot of people close to that Kentucky program, and you know, I do that article every year about the draft. And there were

a lot of people that liked Gilders Alexander. And yet the ones that I talked to at Kentucky were not high on him. It was very strange. Like they're very high. on Knox and his possible ceiling. But in terms of Shea Gilgis, you know, an unimpressive for a majority of the year had this unbelievable SEC tournament run, right? He really turned up at the very end of that year. But by and large, we're not like 100% sold on Shea Gilgis being a sure thing in the NBA by any means. And I think, you know, a little disappointed in the way his season.

and went and that it turned up at the very end and it was like where was this and and i will tell you that very reliable uh people could with that kutucky thing you know in the past where i remember years ago i i called on them and it was like the year that they had malik monk and i asked about muck and i mean to a man they all said no no no no fox is the guy like make sure you're paying attention to fox fox is the guy and so i always find it odd it was kind of like Knox, and Knox did fly up those draft boards and went higher than Gilg's Alexander. Gilders-Alexander might have gone a little bit higher than some people had him projected.

But man, he is fantastic, Kev. And it's also fascinating to think, you know, look, he's drafted by the Hornets on draft night. And then he is swapped in the Miles Bridges deal. So he's swapped, it's Miles Bridges, a 20-20-second round draft pick and a 2021 second round draft pick. And then he has this great rookie season and he gets traded again where he's with Gallinari. And you go back and look at that deal.

Oh my God, Kevin. You know, I know in the moment we were all like, wow. But you read this like when it's printed out. Traded by the clippers with Danilo Calanari, a 2021 first round pick, a 22nd two, first round pick, a 2023 first round pick, a 2023 first round pick, a 2024 first round pick, a 2025 first round pick, and a 2026 first round pick for Paul George. I mean, when you see it written out, it's like, now, what if this kid turns out to be like a consistent All-Star, All-NBA-like performer, and you got hit?

and like seven first round draft picks and Gallinari by the way. To your original comment, I had a scout tell me prior to the draft that he thinks Hamadu Diallo was the better Kentucky guard prospect. Oh, no. Which is, which is. Oh, no. I mean, and with Gilges Alexander, I liked him as a prospect. I did not love him.

And that's because of the jumper aspect. I was like, well, how real is this? He shot over 80% from the free throw. line, which is encouraging. He had good touch on floaters and layups, which he still does, and that was encouraging. And he did shoot 40% from three at Kentucky. It's just he had this kind of like ugly looking form, especially off the dribble. And you wondered how much as a guard, he could be a shot creator. But even today, you watch Gildes Alexander and you think about like the construct of a guy like him at six foot six, lanky with, at the time, a question. And

shot. It was hard to come up for successful comparisons for him in the NBA for what he could grow into. There was a lot of Rondo, right? Like that was kind of the... Yeah, a Rondo or even like you could have said, even like a Michael Carter Williams. You could have said somebody like that too. And, you know, granted Carter Williams has had some good moments. Without the reliable jumper, that's what's limited him as an offensive player. You could have said Sean Livingston, a highly successful player. And I thought Gildes and Alexander would be a success. But this much, this soon, averaging nearly 20 points per game with efficiency, doing what he's done.

It's incredible to see that rapid development from year to year as a freshman at Kentucky to a rookie with the clippers and now is second year with the thunder. And for this team moving forward to have this guy to build around with what is already a pretty nice young team in a transition phase with Chris Paul there and Gallinari there, they could blow it up and pull the plug on these veterans or they could keep just trying to win around this youthful star in Gildes-Alexander. But with all those picks you mentioned,

boy, like the amount of possibilities this front office is going to have moving forward to build with Gildes-Alexander somebody who can. He can handle the ball more if you need him to. They don't run a ton of pick and roll with him because you have Chris Paul because you have Dennis

Schroeder, but he can do more of it if necessary. Or you can continue to use him in this ball sharing role where multiple guys are handling the ball. I can't imagine how exciting it must be for Sam Presti to sit in his office and imagine the possibilities moving forward with the draft picks that they have and the assets that they could utilize in trades. And it largely comes down to Shea, though. He was the best asset, the best player they got in that deal. And he's the reason why they would even do that. But with all

those picks, they can have fun moving forward. And if you're the Clippers, I mean, look, this is why they did it. were taking a run at the title. But in Kauai won and PG. No, no, that's what I'm saying, right. That was,

it was almost contingent. You're not, you're probably not getting Kauai if you're not getting Paul George. That was how the story went. But, boy, did they give up a King's Ransom? My God.

If this kid turns out great and it's Galinari and then a first round pick for the next friggin five, six years, sometimes multiple first round pick. because, I mean, they gave up Miami's unprotected. They gave up another Miami one. And then they have that right to swap with the clippers if they want to. If the clippers, you know, if this is just a short run and then they go back to maybe a rebuild or whatever.

I don't know. But my goodness, what a guard getting 20 rebounds is insane. I mean, it is, it's one thing if you're within five feet of the. the basket the whole game. But how? How do you even get 20 rebounds? Like a guard getting 10 rebounds is a great night. But 20? I mean, I guess it stands to reason. It hasn't happened where you put it together with the points and the assist since what, 26 years since Shaquille O'Neal, for God's sakes. And that's what this kid accomplished last night. Wild. There's going to be, there could be a lot of regret maybe if this kid turns out to be what he looks like to be on his trajectory.

I mean, he's averaging 20 already. I don't know, I don't know if it would be regret on the Clippers part necessarily because how about on the Hornet? Well, sure. Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of regrets there. And you also mentioned Monk, who they drafted. But with the Clippers and Thunder, I'm not sure it would be regret with the Clippers. The goal was a championship.

The goal was signing Kauai Leonard. So it was the price that you unfortunately had to pay. And ultimately, this is a result-oriented business. And if they don't win a championship during the Kauai PGA era, then this deal will be looked back at as a mistake. But in the moment, it was the correct decision. It was a necessary decision. But you do look at the clippers right now.

And this is a team that is good as they are on paper. There's something off with this team on a chemistry level. Yeah. There's something really off here. And maybe that's because, like, any other team that adds a new star, whether it was Katie, when he went to the Warriors or the first year with LeBron and Wade and Bosch getting together on the heat or any other combination. The only time that you can really look back at stars getting together their first year and it

working at an optimal level with the Big Three Celtics with KG and Ray Allen joining Paul Pierce, and maybe that'll be the case with LeBron being joined by Anthony Davis. But with the case of the Clippers, there's something off here with Kauai, Paul George joining that team. Maybe it's because it's just naturally all those guys are going to get together and it's tough. Maybe it's because of all the injuries they've had guys going in and out of the lineup. Paul George out right now with the hamstring injury, Kauai earlier in the area with

the knee injury and other guys coming in and out too. But there seems to be something beyond that with the chemistry. You know Kauai's not a big, I mean, it's always tough when he's not a big leadership guy, right? Like he's not like, follow me. he's just a individually amazing player. I mean, hell, he hardly talks for goodness sakes, right? I do think it helped that you have, like, guys that were within a structure in Toronto and, like, long-term guys, especially Lowry.

Like, Lowry is not only a fantastic player. He's like a real, like, this is my, you know what I mean? Like, you're becoming part of this. And it's kind of like. And then Gasol, too, last year. Who is a vocal leader. And he had a prior relationship. And Kyle had a prior relationship with Mark, too, right?

Yep. And so I think that's a little easier than, you know, for the most part, it's Pat Bev, Montrez, and Lou. Like, that's kind of the carryovers. So you do have, like, an odd mix of, like, who's the guy? Like, when you have a bad game or whatever, who's the guy you envision standing up in the locker room saying something about it, right? Sure, and that's the interesting thing with Kauai. You mentioned last year in Toronto, but then of course in San Antonio, all of the guys that they had there with their winning season, Duncan, Genobley, Parker,

pop himself. It goes without saying what the culture that they had in San Antonio. And for L.A., you have a guy who was in that San Antonio system who won there and won in Toronto, but what they had there was drastically different in those locker rooms on those plane rides, and those bus trips than they have right here in L.A. And whether it is that central leader voice in the lot of them, I just think who is the voice? Who is the voice?

Like who can you imagine if you play like crap one night, right? Or like you need to get going. Outside of Dot, who's that guy? Don't they seem like a team that's in year three or four of their runs here? Like there's a little bit of coasting going on? Oh, for sure. And I think it could. I mean, look, in the end,

they are going to be devastating to play against when it comes playoff time. Well, you say that, you say that, but is that a guarantee? I mean, if those two are healthy, yes. It should be a guarantee. If those two are healthy, if those two are healthy, they are going to be devastating to play in the playoff. But if you're right about the chemistry aspect and the leadership aspect, if you're right about that, there's a chance you can be wrong because that part's important with

what we call flipping the switch or turning it on. in the postseason. This is a team that will need to do that unless they decide to do it sometime between now and then. But this is a team that's coasting right now. And maybe it's because the injuries and all the other stuff we're mentioning, but they are coasting. Yep. The other team in L.A. is not. Dave one nine in a row.

And the Lakers have been fantastic and especially fantastic recently, despite being down some guys. The other night they played that game without both LeBron and Anthony Day. and had an unbelievable night. And then you have last night, as they come back and then put a beat down on the Cavs, you have Kevin Love speaking. And of course, this was going to make headlines. He says, it was different. He's talking about them playing together.

It was different because it's been so long and we've been through so many battles with each other. I'm not going to say it felt normal, but I feel like we were both out there competing and playing hard. But seeing him play with that team is obviously different, especially even if I didn't get to see him with AD, it still feels like they could do something special. And so anything that Kevin Love said about what was going to happen with LeBron and that team was going to make some headlines because obviously they played together.

And I'm sure Kevin Love would love nothing more than to be there or anywhere else for that matter. Well, you know, since we last spoke on Friday morning, the Lakers have been without AD. they beat Dallas in Dallas. They beat Oklahoma City on the second night of a back-to-back without LeBron and AD and a bunch of other guys in Oklahoma City. And then, of course, they won last-since game against Cleveland at home, as you just mentioned, without AD. And this is a team before the season, I picked the Lakers to win the championship, to win the West. So I am not necessarily unsurprised what they've done.

I think having a 67-68 win pace is a bit beyond what I may have expected during the regular season. But what we're seeing is LeBron still at his peak powers. A.D., hopefully when he's able to get back healthy, is playing better basketball than he ever has because of the talent around him. But the conversation around the Clippers and the Lakers in some ways is what was expected, at least for me personally, where would the Clippers that be a team, we would think, oh, they're, they're disappointing. They're not meaning expectations with all these new guys and all these guys resting in the Lakers are clicking on all cylinders. and maybe by the playoffs, these teams will look more evenly matched than they appear to today.

But where we are today is a team that is head and shoulders above the rest of the Western Conference of the Lakers. That's because LeBron is still LeBron and these pieces were just blatantly underrated that are around him in AD, whether it is a Dwight Howard who last night hitting his third three of the regular season, unbelievable.

I mean, and look at his stat line from last night. I mean, like, vintage Dwight Howard. What the hell is going on? 21 points, 15 rebounds to assist. But like, it's not even about the stats with Dwight,

though. It's the positional defense. It's the, it's the willingness to play his role on the offensive end of the floor. It's the sacrifice that he's finally made after all these years and he's playing winning basketball. And the pieces around LeBron and,

and Anthony Davis aren't perfect. I still think they could find another upgrade over Rajan Rondo, which is why they had the interest in Darren Carlson, which is why that perhaps maybe they could go for an Andre Godala in a trade or a buyout, which I don't think he'll get bought out of, as we've discussed before. But that's, they do need another ball handler to help alleviate pressure off LeBron and postseason. But they're close. They're close to having the perfect team around those guys with the shooters who are smart decision makers and can defend as well. The Dwight thing is crazy because, you know, I mean, he's,

he's not far from like, I mean, he's a minimum guy. Like, is he, how much, how many years is he have left in the league? Like, is he just, well, he had a non-guaranteed deal. I know. Is he one of these guys that's not going to, like the game is just not for him anymore. And where does he fit within this new landscape of the NBA where even the fives will stretch you all the way out? And instead, this guy has had this throwback, you know, these performances,

And beyond that, Kev, you know, with Howard, it's like, it makes you think, like, he needed to be at a place that, like, was winning like hell with him or without him, right? Like, they can win if they don't have Dwight Howard and they can win if they do have Dwight Howard. And that he's not like the most accomplished guy in the locker room. Like, when's the last time he wasn't the most accomplished guy in the locker room? Like, there are guys that not only better, but more accomplished. accomplished guys than him. Certainly the guy that leads that locker room is that. And so, but him, you know, you got to give him credit for sliding in and becoming a role player.

And not only does role players don't put up 21 and 15 either usually, right? Like he's been dynamite for them. Yeah. And, and that's one of the things that's been so good about him this year is Dwight even in some of those down years. It was because of his offense. It was because of his insistence still on posting up and not just being a role guy, a cleanup guy who hovers around the baseline and cleans up for you, grabs offensive rebounds. And he's doing those things at a high level in addition to the fact that on defense, he's still reliable. He is still in good positioning. He's hustling. He's playing hard. He's communicating. He's always done those things, but he's doing it at an even higher level than he has in years as part of an overall

collective unit, regardless of who's on the floor for the Lakers, they have reliable defensive players that's led by LeBron James and Anthony Davis, AD, who, if he's able to stay healthy for the course of the year, thus far would be my leading candidate for defensive player of the year. LeBron James, who was an underrated defender last year, by watching the eye test, by looking at the numbers, and it is even better this season than he was last year. led by those two guys, they have a reliable unit that communicates and plays hard on the defensive end and takes each possession in the game seriously. They minimize mistakes, whether it's allowing backdoor cuts and missed rotations.

They are so good on defense with the league's third best defensive rating. And that's what can carry them moving forward over the course of the season and into the playoffs, in addition to the fact that you have two of the most ferocious offensive players in 80 and LeBron. on this team, if they're able to add one more guy to that offensive group, they will be not a clear favorite on the level of the Warriors we saw or the Heedles, but they're pretty close to that if they can add one more guy because of the level AD and LeBron are playing that with their defense because all those LeBron teams in Cleveland, they did not have a defense like this.

They were reliant on their scoring on the offensive end. They had old defenders like Kyle Corver guys who were not productive defenders. no shots against Kyle Corber but like this team doesn't have holes like that on that end of the floor. They are elite on both ends and that's what separates them in some of LeBron's past teams. That's for sure.

Let's get to while they have been hot, there have been a couple other teams that have been scorching hot, one of which is the jazz. Now you look at the standings and they're right there as a home court advantage team. We were very high on them going into the year

really like their offseason moves and thought that they bolstered what was already a really good team last year. And then you have this weird circumstance where this year, you know, December 17th, we're sitting there going, man, something's just off, something's not right. Are they going to get it together? They're 15 and 11 on December 17th. And it just so happens that's, you know, Conley goes out in that game. Since then, they have been 12 and 2.

One of the losses is a three-point game, against Miami at Miami that they lost. And they only had one other game that was a one possession game. So, I mean, they have been bowling people over. And, you know, they've gotten Ingalls back in the mix. And he looks more like, you know, the Ingalls that we thought was an outstanding player for the last couple of years. And then Royce O'Neill has gotten in that lineup and has been good for them.

And they look like they found their comfort zone while adding Bogdanov, bitch into it. And so you wonder, what are they going to look like when Conley comes back? Because it's not, it's not long till he does. And is this a coincidence or is this, you know, could it be cause and effect? There's not a cause and effect here. They had, they did win the three games before Conley went out. So maybe they were starting to figure things out. And like you and I touched on before, they still need Conley to be the guy they expected or at least close to that to the heights they hope to in the postseason. Having that ball handling presence in Conley

is critical to their success to go deep into a May playoff series and they would hope into a June final series. So they need Conley to be Conley. But what we are seeing right now is really interesting. I think it's a lot of improvements in individual ways that help collectively. Joe Engels is back on track.

It's not just the big names though. It's someone like Emmanuel Moodye is playing better basketball. And I need to, to mention this because I, when it happened, I thought to myself like, man, I don't know if they need another guy that needs the ball in his hand to be good, but that's why they run the team and I don't. Jordan Clarkson has been a great trade for them. I mean, Jordan Clarkson too. Great. Since he has gone there, he is 46% from the field, 35% from three, and he's giving him 15 points a game. Like we looked earlier in the year and their bench was just atrocious.

And by the way, Jeff Green was let go in the midst of this too. You know, I'm not going to act like every team that hasn't, you know, hasn't had Jeff Green gets better, but that's pretty well what happens. And Conley should be back fairly soon, whether it's, you know, this month or early next month. It should be back soon. And it's going to be fascinating to see how they do reintegrate him into the rotation. because like I said, you do have Moody A playing better basketball. Clarkson has done what they got him to do coming off the bench.

It's a great role for him too. Great role for him. So where do those minutes come from? How to roles change? How does Ingalls' role change? How does Mitchell's role change? It'll be fascinating to see how Conley gets back into the loop with this team because they need him to.

Like that, I don't, I think because he stunk so much early in the season, people are like he's washed up, bad salary. maybe you should trade him. I don't think Utah should panic and I don't think they will because Conley on paper what you got him for is pretty clear. And that's a guy who for years in Memphis was one of the league's best pick and roll players at creating for himself and for others. And in a postseason setting when you're regular offense, your motion's not working and

you've got to go to pick and roll, it's going to be Mitchell or it's going to be Conley. And Mitchell is a scorer first. Conley is a guy who can create easier baskets for Mitchell and everybody else. So they had better damn hope when he gets back. He's himself because they're going to be a really good regular season team, the rest of the year regardless. But for them to be what they can be on paper, Conley's got to be himself. Yeah.

And obviously they have, they've really, you know, they've gotten back into a comfort zone and they look a lot like last year's Jess. So here's hoping that Conley could fit back into it and they keep on trucking. because there's nothing more I would hate for them to write Conley to come back and then they like turn mediocre again. Right.

That would be the worst. No doubt, no doubt. And like I don't think that's going to happen. I think they're going to, I mean, maybe there's a dip because they're on such a hot streak now. But it's not going to change things such as Rudy Gobeyer having another, a third straight potential defensive player of the year caliber season. It's not going to change something like that. It's not going to change Bogdanovich being just a perfect secondary. score next to these guys. It's not going to change Royce O'Neill being a super good 3-&D player.

Those things are going to remain. It's just about how does just the fit in the flow on offense change with Conley. How do the rotations change? And as a result of those rotations changing, do guys get thrown off rhythm? And I hope that doesn't change. And I don't think it will because I had confidence in this team before the year at the time of the trade, entering the season, and hopefully Conley's healthy. I mean, whatever is wrong. wrong was wrong with him. Hopefully it's fixed. All right, Kevin. We'll get right back to it. Do you have enough life insurance? It's this thing we all know we need, but keep putting off because it sounds like a pain to deal with. Ladder has made getting life insurance easy. All you need to do is answer a few quick questions online and get a personalized quote. If you qualify, they'll cover you with the click of a button. No salespeople, no paperwork, no waiting, period. Just the feeling of doing something right. for your family.

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slash NBA. Ladder life term policies are issued by Fidelity, security life insurance company, Kansas City, Missouri, not available in New York. The other hottest team in the NBA is the Memphis Grizzlies. Oh, Memphis. John Moran has returned from injury. He returned from injury on December 9th.

Since that time, only two teams have more wins than the Grizzlies, and those are the Milwaukee Bucks and the aforementioned Utah Jazz. they have played 18 games since. They have held the lead in the fourth quarter and 16 of those. They are first in the NBA in points per game, first in assists per game, second in field goal percentage, third and three point percentage, sixth in the league in threes made, and third in offensive rating. I mean, they have been absolutely ridiculous given the expectations of the team.

and this Morant thing, Kevin, I've seen every rookie that's come through over the course of the last, you know, whatever, it's been 18, 20 years. This is like, I'm trying to think, like, maybe like Rose, you know, because Rose was on a good team. Rose got, you know, he didn't go to a terrible team. It was like a crazy lottery that Chicago won. And then he was really good right off the bat. and they were like a playoff team. And I don't know if this team will end up making the playoffs, but I do know this.

He is, I thought he was going to be a superstar. I did not think he would be like a guy that the fourth quarter comes up. And it's like, all right, you got John Morant on your team. He may take over this game. He has been out of control great. And then he's gotten Jaron Jackson to come along with him. And, you know, I mean, like they're good. They're good.

They're legitimately good. of course, Brennan Clark. Oh, for sure. Look. And the sneaky one has been, and I'm interested,

let me ask you about this, because we've never talked about this kid on the air. And he was a fascinating prospect, because he's gotten moved around a lot. He was a Houston guy, and then he ended up going to Phoenix. And then in the off season, they made this deal,

and they got De Anthony Melton and Kevin. Ah, yes. He has been, he has the highest net rate. rating on the entire team. Like every night I look at that box score and it's a big plus. I mean, he's like plus double digit net rating plus 10. And so that coincides too with not only Morant coming back,

but he kind of, you know, whittled his way into the lineup did DeAnthony Melton. And he has been fantastic. Where were you on Melton? I really liked Melton. And I know a lot of people who were like on NBA draft Twitter as well, like Melton. And it feels like Zach Kleinman, the new Grizzlies head decision maker in their front office,

or hired this past year also was part of NBA draft Twitter with the decisions making, like with Brennan Clark and adding De Anthony Milton because they have a lot of guys who people liked. The NBA did not like, but a lot of people who do scouting outside the league did. And Milton was somebody at USC did display the ability to be a great defensive player who could be a complementary offensive. a player. And that is exactly what he's what we've seen. And with him missing his, his last year there at USC, a course that hurt his draft stock. But that doesn't matter in the NBA once you're actually here. And it's nice to see him get the opportunities that he has in Memphis that he wasn't

previously able to get with any consistency. He played 50 games in Phoenix, but he played only 20 minutes per game, limited action. This year in Memphis, Abel, it'll play a bit more of an important role with more consistent minutes. So that's nice to see. Yeah, and back to the Morant thing, it is one thing to be an individually fantastic player. He truly makes everybody better. And that is not something that is true of all great players in the league and certainly not almost ever true of rookies. It's the playmaking ability, right? I mean, that's what makes him better.

It's his ability to distribute the ball. We've seen that get better month to month before the year when we did our, our bold prediction segment. And I went into that thinking, oh, I'm going to say LeBron's going to lead the league and assist. I'm like, that doesn't seem bold enough. And I'm like, I'm going to say John Morant's going to lead the league and assist. And that was too bold.

But, you know, last game, 10 assists against Golden State, 14 assists against San Antonio for the month, averaging nine assists. Each month, he's racking up more and more assists, whether that's due to guys just hitting more shots around him, or whether that's due to him getting more touches and therefore more potential assist. It's probably a combination of both, but there's no denying Rant's playmaking ability with what he showed at Murray State. The question with him was,

really, what can his defense be and what level is his jump shot, really? And so far, he's answered questions on the offensive end of the floor, shooting 39% from three, and that has not affected him at all with how defenses are defending him. He's getting to the room at will. And that's something rare to see for a rookie. A lot of rookies, they don't don't get the line or because they're not drawing files and they're not even getting to the rim with any consistency, but he is. And that's what's so encouraging for him moving forward as his body continues to improve, as his handle continues to get even better, that he's going to get even more and more dynamic at getting to the basket to score for himself or to create opportunities

for others as he ages into his 20s. And he's only 21, 20 years old right now. It's crazy. Well, and you were talking about what's happened recently. The other thing is, and people can watch they play the Rockets on NBA TV tonight. That's a tough one. It's one of the national games. Well, Westbrook's sitting out. You know, they've been here, they've been to Memphis twice,

and he has set out both games. Really? Yes. It's strange. Very strange. Because it's not like he's been doing the load manager thing all the time. I don't know what's going on.

He has missed every back-to-back to season. Oh, okay. It might not be load management, but it's at least whatever you want to call resting on a back-to-back. Yeah, well, and they decide which one they're going to play. Do you like the term load management? They are going to play him tomorrow against Portland, so that's okay. So they just choose one of the games that he's going to play in.

Do you like the term load management? I mean, I've just gotten used to it now. Do you have any problem with it? I kind of would rather just call it rests. That's fine. I wish it was just rest. All right. By the way, what I was going to say is of the recent,

Jaron Jackson has shot 54% from three since the calendar turned. 54 Kevin Like that is For all the people that loved him Nobody saw that coming Like he is devastating Is he the best shooter with a funky Shot shooting form since Sean Marion?

Oh it's not even close He's got to be right I mean like that shot is whack looking But it works I mean and and not only this He takes a high volume In terms of efficiency He does

The only two guys that are up there I was reading something the other day where they said the most efficient guys with that shot are Duncan Robinson, Davis, Bertans, and Sharon Jackson. And I was like, what? What's cool with him as well is he's not just a shooter off the catch. He can shoot off movement. He can shoot off the dribble. He's shooting 39% on pull-up threes.

Granted, it's a small sample, but he can dribble and create his own shot. And that's the skill when you look, when you're looking at big men, we talk a lot this season about the value of a big. it's the guys who can create their own shot from the perimeter and not just have to spot up that have the most value. And that's for Jaron Jackson's trajectory moving forward in a playoff series with the Memphis Grizzlies. If John Morant is in a series where he's getting neutralized or they're switching screens and he can just fling the ball to Jaron Jackson on a mismatch and he can create against the defender, that gives you an immense value in your half court offense.

And moving forward, again, Jaws just. 20. Jaron Jackson's just 20. And these guys are already as good as they are. This feels in a weird way, sort of like young Oklahoma City with Hardin, Katie, and Russ. And it's not to that extreme necessarily. Katie being the all-time great player that he is and Harden being the all-time great offensive player he is. But in terms of the excitement and the fit in the potential of this team, as young as they are, it feels a lot like that. Do you feel that? And, do you feel that? Oh, for sure. Look, my connections are known, but this is, this is objectively the most fun young team in the league. I mean, they, they, everybody you watch, it's like there's a couple of, there's veterans, you know, certainly that are good veterans that have helped help the team. But when you're talking about Morant and Melton and Clark and Jaron Jackson and Dylan Brooks, who for all intents of purposes, and he was a veteran college player, all intents of purposes is really playing his second year in the NBA. because he missed all of last season.

They got a bunch of young talent, and they play at this breakneck pace, and they score like hell. They score 115 every night. They're so fun. They are. And, you know, the only other team that could have potential

of being the closest, next funnest young team is New Orleans. And perhaps when Zion gets back. What a great segue. Because Mark Spears reported, it's on the horizon that we're going to see him at the end of the week. Of course, I had mentioned a couple weeks ago the Martin Luther King Day game, which the NBA has really made a big deal out of over the years that day, is John Morant versus Zion Williamson.

And so here's me with my fingers mega crossed that that could actually come to fruition. And that could be one of his first games because according to reports yesterday, we may get to see Zion by Friday, right? I believe it was Mitch Lawrence who reported rumblings that Thursday could be the game he returned. Okay, Thursday. And I've heard rumblings that it could be this week as well. I don't have any confidence that it could be Thursday, but it will be soon, whether it is this week before their set of national TV games, they have one on Saturday and early start game against the Clippers. And of course, the Monday game you mentioned.

I hope it's soon so people can see Zion. I saw him in person last Saturday in Boston. and I can't think of many players that I've seen draw a crowd before games than what I saw from Zion. It was like two or three rows back of kids and people watching him warm up before the game. Like, of course, Steph always draws a big crowd. LeBron draws a big crowd, but these are established superstars. Zion has not played a single game. I mean, it's pretty wild.

You were there with me. And I was there. Mark Titus was there. Tape Frazier, a bunch of guys. We all met up because we all got to Vegas and wanted to see that first Zion game. I mean, look, that's at the Thomas at Mac Center in Vegas for Summer League. The place was slammed. And like when he came out, it was like the damn Beatles walked out or something.

It was crazy. There was a buzz. Literally as soon as he walked out. Oh, my God. The room changed. And everybody's standing on their feet. Everybody's got their camera out just trying to get like, you know, videos of the layup line and what he's going to do.

It was crazy. And then he, he just snatched the ball. Who was it? Kevin Knox. I think it was Knox. And he just ripped the ball away from him and then don't like, like spiked it.

Oh, so fun to watch. And he only played, I think, eight or nine minutes that game. But in those eight or nine minutes, he showed, he showed everything that you wanted to see.

Just as he did in preseason. I mean, what he, I'm writing about, Zion this week for the Ringer. And so it's like been on my mind. Like what he did in preseason, he had so many moments that are easily

translatable to regular season action. And you think about New Orleans right now, they're placed in the league. You have this battle for the eight seed in the Western Conference right now. Of course, Memphis has that spot. They are tied with San Antonio right now for that seed.

But New Orleans right now, only three and a half back currently in the 14th slot. If they get Zion back and He is what he was in the preseason, which was a guy putting up Janus-like numbers as a scorer near the rim shooting 80% on shots near the rim, many of which were unassisted, which is the key to success. That's what Janus does, self-created shots, the way in which they were using him and how things would fall into place for New Orleans.

You'd have Ingram playing against more backup fours. You'd have more sharing of the ball, easier shots, more drawn files. guys, the opponent getting in the penalty more earlier because of Zion with what he's doing in the paint, they could be in that conversation pretty soon if he's able to get back. How about them dusting off Jolil Oklefor

and him having a monster night last night? That was crazy. Well, they needed that with favors being out again, which isn't really unfortunate for that team. And one of the reasons to be a bit more cautious with them. But he went off. He did. I mean, Jalil Okapur, of all things.

And by the way, like now that you, I'm glad you brought that up. Well, what is with these teams wanting to give up all these assets for Andre Drummond? We're talking about all these centers who make pennies, a million bucks. We're talking about guys who are on long guaranteed contracts making important impacts at a fair dollar value for their teams. Meanwhile, Andre Drummond for years wants over $20 million to re-sign with a, Atlanta, which is one of the reasons why they haven't made the trade yet, according to a couple sources I've talked to. Why do you want that guy? Why do you want them? You can get centers for cheaper in the draft. You can get them in free agency. You can get that off the scrap heap.

What are we doing here? After three seasons, we have found something that we are just, we could not be more in line with each other. I just, I get it. I got no use for him. None. It would be a critical mistake if the Atlanta Hawks trade anything of significance for John. How about the Knicks name coming up yet a couple days ago? I was like, oh, for God, geez. So how about the report that the Knicks won't

trade Marcus Morris for anybody but a star? Good luck. I mean, no disrespect to Marcus Morris, but he's, but he is a upcoming unrestricted free agents. And it's hard to trade any player

who is going to be a free agent in a couple months for a star player, even if it is a star player. So I mean, come on, man. I mean, like, again, well, just one more thing on Drummond, though. Please. If, if you're Detroit here, I know you want a first round draft pick. And I know you probably feel like you should get a first round draft pick. But if you're Atlanta or any other team, that needs to be either a protected pick in the future

or a pick that is likely of lower value. Because of the fact he can be unrestricted this coming summer, he will have leverage even if he doesn't get the money that he thinks he deserves. He could walk for another situation and you could lose that pick for nothing. And so for Atlanta or any other team that does have interests, you naturally can't give too much, even if there's ownership pressure in getting a quote-unquote big-name player like Drummond is. I think for Atlanta, they're going to be cautious here with the move that they make over these next couple weeks because they do have, despite the fact they have the worst record in basketball, despite the fact that there's maybe some misses on that roster with picks that they've made, you still have Trey Young, who is just a absolutely magnificent young point guard and you still have some other bright spots on that team.

One big mistake for a big man like Andre Drummond could just be what leads to just absolutely chaos. in the distant future when Tray Young's on that second contract, if you make that mistake now. You've got to be careful. All right. Two quick things before we get out of here today. The first of which is the, you mentioned the Pelicans who were in 14th, but yet just three and a half games out of the 8th seed. This is going to be a Western Conference race for the seeds like we have honestly not seen in forever, maybe ever.

When you get to the halfway point of the season and 14 teams are still in it, That is truly incredible. On the other side, though, are we done with the East except for just seating? Could you foresee a circumstance where anybody below Brooklyn makes a run at it? I mean, if you want to look at 538 or basketball reference or any of these places that do projections for the playoffs, there are 13 of 16 teams that have over a 95% chance of making the postseason right now. and in the Eastern Conference, that is seven teams.

So I don't really feel confident. I don't really feel. It's Charlotte? According to 538, it would be the Bulls. And then it would be the Wizards. That's the one I've been looking at. But according to 538,

they have the nets at 77% to make the playoffs. And then they have the magic at, which I don't understand, at 92% to make the postseason. despite the fact that they have the same record right now, despite the fact that both teams have a guy sent it out. It's a, it's a record versus which teams and then the point differential. Exactly. And then also the fact that they do have a bit of a cushion over Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Washington.

And again, this touches back on what has been a topic throughout the course of the season with the playoff playing tournament. The negative side is, would it really be that exciting to watch the Orlando Magic and a one game playoff against the Chicago Bulls? no probably not but on the flip side though wouldn't it be nice though for a team that has had some injuries earlier in the season or makes a big acquisition that may have been out of it to feel like they actually get a chance i think so and i think that goes back to the west though with new orleans let's say they were you know forget new orleans like golden stay right now nine and a half back of the eight seed they are eight back from that 10 seed if they got Steph back and at the time they were eight games back, I feel like if you're a Golden State

fan, you would be more invested the rest of the year. If you're like, you know what, how cool it be if we get into that one game playoff and then we're in it, Steph's back, Clay's back first round on the playoffs, they can win a championship and beat all the odds. I feel like the league is better with that. It needs to happen. And even though there might be some boring series like we could see in the East, I think the overall excitement outweighs any. of that because of what we have in the West and could have someday in the East. I like having, you know, let those

bottom four play it out. I like that idea. Last thing. Milwaukee's 35 and 6, Kevin, at the midway, at the exact midway point for them, 41 games. I'm going to guess they go 36 and 6 and they beat the Knicks tonight. So,

but here's the thing. That's precisely a 70-win pace. Do the Milwaukee bucks go 35 and six their next 41 games? Probably not.

But I would not rule that out. It's just really hard to do. It's just really, really hard to do of the course of the year. If a guy turns an ankle, misses two, three games or... All right, fine. If I gave you over under 67. That's a good over under,

actually. I think they'll go 32 and 9. I would take a slight under there. I think 65, 66 wins is pretty conceivable for them. Same with the Lakers in the West. They're on pace for 67 or 68. I would take

the under there. But not slightly. I would pick the over for 60 and I know that's not a hot take at all. No, and do you run and at the end of the season guys reels. Well, they've got a six and a half game cushion. Yeah, exactly. The Bucks do. The Lakers may have that

luxury or may not. Guys are going to rest as they should. At some point or another, guys are going to rest and they're going to drop a couple games. So I don't see them meeting that pace unless it's like Golden State when they went for it. They went for it. If they go for it, then sure. I would bet on them just resting and taking 66 wins instead of pushing for 70.

It's just not worth it. Through 41 games, a plus 12 point differential is that is just crazy. crazy to be plus 12 on average through 41 games they are I don't know I don't guess I'd put anything past them at this point because they have just been absolutely unbelievable all season long

Kevin it is always a pleasure we should have a lot of news coming out this week and we are inching closer to the trade deadline and rumors will be getting started up big time in the next week or so. I will talk to you on Friday. Hey, have a good one, Chris.

Thanks to Bobby Wagner, as always for producing. If you did what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Friday.