The Ringer NBA Show - Should Giannis Antetokounmpo’s MVP Already Be Locked Up? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

In Kevin’s return to the show, we return to our old ways: arguing about James Harden’s gather dribble and Giannis’s claim to the MVP (10:30). Then, we discuss the Knicks' awkward handling of Spike Lee (29:40), the Elam ending in the All-Star Game, and Jayson Tatum’s ascendance since Kevin’s absence from the podcast (56:26). Host: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, this is Kelly, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. Recently, on the Winging It podcast, Vince Carter and Annie Finberg sat down with NBA all-star Kyle Lowry and recording artist for Timmy. This week, 2017 first overall pick Markell Fultz joins the show to talk about living up to expectations and working his way back from injury in the NBA. Make sure to check out Winging It on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me on this Tuesday. From The ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, A.K.K.K.O.C.K.K. Kevin O'C., Kevin O'Compment, Kevin O'Comp. Kevin O'Comp. It's so good to hear your voice, buddy. I'm so happy to be back. I am so glad that you are back. A big thanks to Jonathan Charks for filling in the last couple of weeks. You have obviously been very open and honest about everything you have been through over the last few weeks and said you were going to be on hiatus.

And I know that the listeners have been overwhelmingly positive and helpful during this time that you've been going through. So I'll give you the floor, Kevin, and you can kind of talk to people about what the last couple of weeks have been like. I mean, first of all, just want to say, you know, thank you to everybody for all the support this past year, ever since, you know, I first wrote the story about my dad's cancer diagnosis that's meant the absolute world to me, to my mom. mom and of course to my dad um you know he passed on february 11th and you know we were going to record that morning i was looking forward to recording the show and like 30 minutes before that like he got worse and like i was like oh we we can't and he passed a couple hours after that i was glad my mom and i were together um when he did pass away and you know it's you know it's obviously hard most

of all i i for me and for my mom we sort of are on the same page it just feels weird you know um like I feel the urge to tell him things. I want to talk to him about, you know, where's Tom Birdie going to go? You know, I want to talk to him about Jason Tatum turning into a star, the future here at the ringer. And, you know, I, you know, last night I ate at my favorite restaurant. I'm in Los Angeles for the week. And I ate at my favorite restaurant, spoon by age. And I found myself while there thinking to myself like, geez, like, he's not going to be able to come out here and enjoy this food with me.

And, you know, all that stuff saddens me. but, you know, the cancer diagnosis is out of our control. It's out of everybody's control when something like that happens to themselves or to someone they love. And I feel like the past year, we've made the most of our good days together. And, I mean, just quickly, like, I would say to anybody else who's going through something like this, you know, the last, you know, a couple weeks from my dad weren't good, especially the last couple days. Like, he was suffering.

And, you know, the one thing I didn't expect since he passed from my mom and I is like there's a sense of relief that's attached to the grief. And when you lose someone, you love that's suffering. And, you know, that instills mixed feelings because you don't feel like that, you know, you should feel anything like relief when someone you love is gone. But it's okay to feel that way. You know, I think a lot of people do feel that way, even though you don't expect it. And the other thing I would say is that there was a couple months ago in November. I was in L.A. at the time. And there was this one late night.

I was home just chilling, laying in bed. And I was thinking to myself, you know, what if I only had 10 minutes to live? What would I say? Well, what would I do? And I was like, well, obviously I'd call my parents, you know, and I sort of just put myself in a headspace. I set a timer on my phone for 10 minutes. It sounds all very silly. but like I spoke aloud for 10 minutes until that buzzer went off just pouring out every emotion, every thought, everything that I would say to my mom and dad.

I was bawling my eyes out while doing it. But when that buzzer went off, I realized, you know, I've said all these things. I've said everything that I would want to say to my mom and dad. They know how much I love them through the things that I've said to the things that I've done. They can feel how much I love them. And that was a really good feeling in that moment that night. And I've sort of carried that with me since then. And I guess I would just encourage people to be open and honest with the people you love. You know, love the people you love because I think being vulnerable would them frees you from that burden of a secret that you can have someday when they might be gone or something changes. So that's been something that really has helped me through this was just the open and honesty with you guys, my friends, the listeners, with you, Chris. with you, Bobby, with you who listen to the show, and with my friends.

You know, that's really helped a lot. And, you know, again, I just thank you. You guys have helped make this past year, despite all the bad, you know, have some pretty special moments. So thank you. Yeah, I had talked to you off the air about what had gone through. And it's for anybody that hasn't been through it, what you say about, you know, the way it goes the last couple of weeks, it's one of those experiences that once you have it,

it changes everything. I've told you my best friend when we were in our young 30s was diagnosed. And then I ended up having him. He ended up taking a lot of experimentals. And then he passed away. It came back like a wave. And he passed away in 2011. And he, but when I went for the last time to see him, one of my other friends had called me and said, go see him. I couldn't see him that way. Right. And there's this, you are so grief-stricken, but then there is this, moment where you cannot take this, right? It's never turning around. It's never getting better. And now seeing this person in this state and suffering, you just want them to go and be at peace rather than to watch them suffer. And of course, I remember speaking at his funeral and saying

that exact thing. It's the only thing that saved me, honestly, in that time was that by the time he had passed away, I knew he was in such agony. I mean, I saw, I, I said, I, saw it. I witnessed it. I was on the bed with him while it was going on. And you cannot take that. And so maybe it's a, it's the way the world works. And look, man, I'd just say this on behalf of all the listeners. And I tweeted this after it all went down. You took what was a terrible thing and you turned it into a positive, whether it was the dunk for cancer, dunk for cancer, or whether it was just in this world that we live in and so much next. negativity and so many, especially on social media, seeing the outpouring of positive. And this moment that you realize there are so many more good people than there are bad people. And sometimes we get drowned out and we think that, oh my goodness, can you believe people are like this? But in general, people are not what the worst of us is. And I saw that because I was tagged on so much that and during what you went through. And so I just, you know, it had a profound impact on me. Watching, watching people

and how good-hearted people are and how caring they were about you. Because in the end, we host a podcast, Kev. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, these people aren't, you know, but I sense that so many people truly cared about your plight and your father and your mother and what was going on, that it, I don't know, man, it gives you a lot of faith in humanity. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the big things that I've felt this past year is, you know, you mentioned the love from the listeners, from the readers, from the viewers and all that. And, you know, I think it's sort of shows, you know, if you're open and honest and kind to people, generally people will be, you know, open and honest and kind back to you. I mean, I think about that there's two big memories that pop into my mind, you know, the dunk on cancer event in Toronto after the show is over, like all the people that lined up afterwards, partially to meet me, but also partially just to share their own stories.

You know, people, you know, talking about, you know, their experiences with cancer or someone that they love lost or something that they personally went through or just, like, how it made them want to be, like, a better son or daughter. Like, they hoped to be, like, a good caring dad like my dad was to me. And that was, like, a really powerful night for me when that happened. And then just this one other time when I was walking to the Staples Center while FaceTiming with my parents and someone recognized. recognized me and was like, hey, hey, can I get a photo?

We took a selfie together and I said, hey, I'm FaceTiming with my parents. And he turned to the camera and he was like, you know, popo OC or something like that. I'm rooting for you, man. I'm rooting for you. Wow. And like, I was like, oh, my God. Like this person, like, we're strangers, but we're friends, you know? And I think that's the type of connection that you and I can both feel in our own ways.

And that's a really good feeling. And it just, I mean, I say we're strangers, but we're friends. And ultimately, we're still strangers at the end of the day, you know. And I think it's important to, if you're, if you were kind to me this past year, I would just encourage you to be equally kind to another stranger because, you know, everybody is going through something or has gone through something or will go through something someday. And, you know, you don't know what someone has been through.

so I think you might as well just be kind to people from the jump. And I think we saw a lot of good this past year and overall there can be more good by being that way moving forward too. I agree with you completely, but I am going to compartmentalize that for this podcast because I am not so sure that I am going to be kind to you, Kevin. It has been a long time. There has been a lot of basketball that has been played. I'm so excited to talk about it. You tested our friendship and my will when you posted James Harden running from the three-point line all the way to the basket and called it not a travel. And I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. The gather staff can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. But we have had a bunch of stuff that has gone on that we need to get to. Not the least of which is we get to do this show after what was an incredibly.

strange night in the NBA. You have all of these things that took place in the last 24 hours. The first of which is a real rarity, which is the bucks losing. That has not happened often this year, and they are facing off with one of the teams that it is a certain possibility that they could end up in the playoffs against each other. They play the heat. The heat really handle them last night and deliver them their

ninth loss of the season. So the poor bucks dropped to 52 and 9 on the year. Still nine and a half games up of the second place, Toronto Raptors. But the heat who had struggled post trade deadline, you know, put together some pretty good efforts recently. The Dallas game over the weekend. And then obviously this is the most impressive beating the bucks in the manner that they did last night. It seems like they're starting to kind of come together after. some struggles getting everybody now into the lineup that they traded for.

Well, Bamadabio made Yonisanta da Cumba look like the guy James Hardham thinks Janus is. Oh, boy. Seven footer with no skill can just run and dunk. Let me let me do this. Let me do this real quick. We do need to say a caveat that, and I've mentioned this many times over the years, road games in many, sometimes Toronto, the players love Toronto. but Miami is like number one on the list and then probably LA of the the teams go there

and the next night when they play they look nothing like themselves. I do not want to discredit Miami at all in this. But when something so wildly out of character takes place, I think it is fair for me to reason that the Miami Knights might have had a, maybe played a part in this. Maybe, maybe, but we don't know that. We weren't in the club. We weren't at the bar.

No, maybe they all went to bed at 10 a. We weren't in their DMs. Maybe they all got a good night's. Yeah, but we did see the game. And Bam Anabio showed why he was an all-star, why he is one of the game's best young players. Because last night, in the three and a half minutes, he defended Janus, held him to two of 11 shooting on those possessions. And when he was defending Brooke Lopez over the five minutes he was against him, he was a significantly important help defender in containing Janus on drives.

And this is what Bam has been doing all season long for Miami. He's a guy who can defend on the perimeter. He's a guy who can defend on the interior. He's a smart help defender. And he constantly busts his ass. And for the Milwaukee Bucks, of course, Janus is the leader, a leading candidate to be most valuable player in the NBA. in the NBA, of course, you still feel great about your odds of going to the finals and winning the

finals with Janus as your best player and Chris Middleton, who is weirdly underrated nationally as your second best player. Of course you still feel good about that. You're 52 and 9. You're 52 and 9. However, when you have a defender like Bam out of bio, you don't need to help off as much on containing Yannis drives. And that means you can stay home on shooters. You can play one-on-one. And it's just intriguing thing to keep in mind with the way in which Miami defended Janus. Just something to keep in mind in your back pocket for the playoffs when there comes the time maybe this matchup might occur. And I'm not so sure.

And this is, you know, this is the way sometimes it works out. We will see how the standings look at the end of the season. And Philadelphia has clearly got to hold the fort until they get Embed. And then who knows on the Simmons thing. When anything is left the indefinitely, indefinite amount of time, who knows? I'm not so sure that if that ended up being the four or five, which it looked like, could very well be the case for a long time. Indiana has crept up there now.

But if it is Miami and Philadelphia, I'm not so sure that the bucks oddly do not have a harder time in that second round matchup than they even would, in a third round matchup, assuming it was the Celtics and the Raptors, are two and three. Like, just because of what those teams bring to the table, Miami and Philadelphia, if we say they're healthy, I'm not so sure that the buck's second round. And that would be that I think at best that thing goes six, seven games, for sure. and those two teams, oddly, might be better equipped to play with the bucks and give them all hell than Toronto and Boston. Do you agree with that? Sure.

Yeah, you know, and I think this touches on, you know, you look at Milwaukee, you look at their net rating, what they're outscoring teams by, you look at their record 52 and 9, they're still on pace for 70 wins. This is outrageous. I mean, what a season they're having. But it's different in the postseason, and I don't think they're such an overwhelming favor. that we should be talking about them and we're not. I don't think anybody should be talking about them as this overwhelming favor in the East that's going to just trounce every opponent on their way

or is a sure-fire bet to make the finals because each of these other top teams in the Eastern Conference can match up with them in some way or perhaps just rise to a level that they just have a better series. They just have a better seven games or six games or however many it takes. There's a possibility of that against this Buck's team.

And I would go as far to say that I wouldn't I wouldn't even consider them like this they don't remind me of like even some of these LeBron led teams when they're the four seat and you're like oh they still have LeBron they're still going to go to the finals like there's not that feeling

despite Janus maybe being MVP this year I still don't feel okay can we get to this can we get to this right off the bat the whole Janus thing about for MVP yes okay because what has happened over the course since the Lakers played on national TV against the Pelicans, it became this

LeBron James should be in the MVP conversation and it was hitting all the debate shows yesterday and it came up. And this is inevitably what takes place every time we have somebody that it becomes boring that he's been the guy the whole time. Right? And so that it's just been understood that this guy is going to win it. And so

what happens is people then want to throw other names. Well, what about this? Right. allow me just a moment, Kevin, to say, this has got to stop, all right, on the whole trying to get LeBron in the mix and all these other names in the mix. You can say whatever you want about P-E-R, but if you look at individual seasons that players have had, it has been a fantastic measure to understand what are the best seasons of all time. The list goes like this in the top 10.

Wilk Chamberlain, Wilk Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Michael Jordan, Wilt Chamberlain, LeBron James, Steph Curry in 1516, which we'd all admit was one of the most unbelievable seasons we've seen, and Michael Jordan. What year for Jordan, I'm curious? Oh, well, no, no, no, I'm saying these are all, I'm listing them from two through ten. Those are the top ten. The only one I didn't name was number one.

The greatest season that has ever been played by anyone in people. P-E-R is Janice Ante Cucco this year with 32.28. He only plays 30 minutes. If he played 36 minutes, these are his per 36 numbers. 35 points, 16 rebounds, 7 assists, a steal, a block, 56% field goal percentage. All right, that's what if you were playing 36 minutes, like some other guys play 36 or 20. 37 minutes and it's certainly not unreasonable. In addition to that, his team is 52 and 9 and putting together

one of the greatest seasons in NBA history. So he is having one of the greatest individual offensive seasons ever on one of the greatest teams that we have seen. Meanwhile, as you said, he might be underrated. The second best player on that team is Chris Middleton. All right. LeBron James's second best player on his team is also coincidentally, when you look at career P.E.R. Michael Jordan is number one. LeBron James is number two. Number three is Anthony Davis. All right, that's who's on that team. And so I know we are trying to wedge in to make for good conversation slash discussion. but Janice Anta Dekumpo's season right now is literally historic. And so I ain't hearing it.

This is, this is clown stuff going on trying to, I mean, this guy is about, he's having one of the greatest seasons ever and is doing it in 30 minutes a game. And his team is 52 and 9. Like I know we want to just not have the clear favorite run off on it without having debate. But this is goofy. I got to put an end to this, Kev. Well, I just want to continue it for one moment. Just one moment.

I would vote for Yonis to win MVP if the season ended today, and all likelihood vote for him at the end of the season in April. I just want to make that clear. However, I also don't think it's worth, you know, saying LeBron is not even close. I think it is a worthy discussion when there's still a lot of time left in the season to at least,

think there's a chance that he could win it because LeBron himself is also having an unbelievable season with the Lakers. He's averaging over 25 points and 10 assists with a true shooting percentage over 57. That's only been done by only two other players in NBA history. Oscar Robertson did it twice. James Harden did it in the 2016-17 season. And obviously the Lakers as well, they outscore teams by 11 points per 100 possessions. When LeBron is on the floor, they get outscored by two points per 100 possessions when LeBron is off the floor, according to cleaning the glass, one of the greatest differentials in the league. LeBron is critical to their success.

He is their most valuable player, by far more valuable than Anthony Davis. I'm sorry. And will he win MVP over Janus? No, probably not. Should he win MVP over Janus? No, probably not. But also, I don't think just because Janus is having an all-time great historic season, that it isn't also worth recognizing that, you know what,

LeBron does belong in that discussion because of what he's doing as a playmaker having a career high and assists, carrying the ball and handling the ball more than he more than he ever has before, playing point guard for that team and also playing great defense, not defensive player of the year level, like Yannis, which is another reason why he should probably win most valuable player when it's all said and done. But LeBron's playing better defense than he has in many years. And that's one of the reasons why the Lakers also have one of the top overall team defenses and why they can see. consistently play as hard as they do. So will LeBron win a VP?

Probably not, but he should be in the discussion at the least. All right. As a distant second at best, that's what I would tell you. And look, I know the way this goes. They played on national TV on Sunday night, so things become discussion points. And so they made LeBron the MVP,

and they want to wedge Zion into rookie of the year, even though he's going to play 20-something game. instead of because... You must love that, huh? Well, because it's been a foregone conclusion that Janice is going to be the MVP and John Morant is going to be the rookie of the year. And so we need to make things interesting

and get the discussions going. And so those teams play on Sunday night and by Monday those are both big discussion points where it's like, hey, actually the reason that these guys were running away with those awards are good reasons. They are having historic seasons. themselves, both of them.

I mean, I just told you, if he played 36 minutes, the guy's averaging 35 and 16. It's crazy. And seven assists. I mean, these are ridiculous numbers, ridiculous. And I'm sure, like, some people would bring up the counter argument. Well, you know, minute should be part of it. He doesn't have to play as much.

Well, he doesn't have to play as much because they're blowing out teams by so much that he can rest in more fourth quarters. And one other thing I just want to add, you mentioned PER, and I'm sure there's some listener and it's like, bah, PER sucks. It's old. and that, you know, sure, think whatever you want. It's still, you know, has some value at the least. But basketball reference did just release their brand new version of box plus minus,

which is a similar statutes that. And Yanis has, according to the statistic, the ninth best box plus minus of all time behind LeBron, Jordan, Curry, David Robinson, and LeBron James again. People can poke holes in statistics. What you cannot poke a hole in is that, That particular list is a tremendous representation of the greatest offensive seasons we've ever seen. It's a quality guideline.

It is not a definitive list of like this is the second best season ever. This is the 15th best season ever. And like you can poke holes even the new box plus minus. It clearly heavy values, you know, high usage seasons such as Russell Westbrook in 2016-17 has the 12 best box plus minus season ever, among others that stand out on that list. but it's at least a guideline of some of the greatest seasons that we've ever seen.

Let's get to other stuff that took place last night. Houston, after being mega impressive in Boston, goes and loses to the Knicks on the same day that the Leon Rose era is going to begin.

And then I didn't know about this going on. No lie. In the break room next to my studio, I was filling up a water right before we were about to record this podcast. Spike Lee was on the TV on first take yelling about how for 28 years he's

gone in the same door and then James Dolan wanted to come talk to him at the game. And I'm like, like they just had their best win of the season. Leon Rose is taking over. They send out this letter to the fans yesterday. And I, the TV's on, and again, I didn't even know about this. somehow they got like terrible PR with their biggest fan on TV bitching about James Dolan and the Knicks. And I'm like, these people can't get anything right. This is unreal. Like this should be a great day, right?

Like, oh, Leon Rose, and they're going to hire a new coach and they're going to do this and they're going to do that and maybe he can get some free agents. And they just beat the rockets last night. And RJ Barrett looked great and has looked a lot better recently. And then their most prominent, famous fan is on TV talking about some kerfuffle he had last night. And I'm like, and they sent out a press release about it. Like, what the hell is going on? A press release about Spike Lee.

He's, that's all I heard. So again, I'm not well versed on this. It happened right before we came in. But he was like, oh, well, what they said, Max Kellerman was like, what's the other guy that hired Steve Stout? Isn't he? He shouldn't he be handling this? He said, he said, he said, what they said in the press release was that, you know, You know, everything was okay and that there was a problem with the door that you went in.

And he was like, I went in the same door for 28 years, you know. And I'm like, what is happening? Yeah, my favorite. I mean, Charles Oakley, Spike Lee, like they just make everyone mad. My, uh, I don't, so I learned of this from a quote that, uh, Stefan Bondi from the New York Daily News tweeted out. It's just simply Spike Lee, quote, I'm being harassed by James Dolan. know why. And I read that. I was like, huh, what happened last night?

What? Oh, here we go. Here we go. TMZ, Spike Lee explodes on Nick's security. You want to arrest me like Charles Oakley? Oh, my God. Dude, I love it. I love it. And this is when they beat the rockets last night. It should have been their best night.

I love how this is the first day of the Leon Rose Steve Stout era in New York. That's a Spike Lee controversy. Is this not the most next possible thing? It really is. Especially the morning after a freaking win over one of the hottest teams in the NBA.

Probably the hottest team who is coming off an impressive overtime win at Boston. And it was an exciting game. They win 125-123. And their rookie R.J. Barrett is like unbelievable in the game. It has 27-5-and-5. R.J. looked like the guy that you hope

that he can be in his prime. That's what he looked like. And yes, RJ has had some very poor performances this season, particularly from the perimeter

and from the free-through line shooting 32% from 3, shooting 59% from the free-throw line. However, long-term, RJ still with his size and his handling ability, does have the upside

to be a three-level score, a guy who can get to the rim and draw files for you, a guy who can make plays for mid-range, and a guy who can shoot at least, at least an above-average level from the perimeter. Will we see more of this from RJ in the future? I damn well hope so, which is why I had him ranked second in the NBA draft and why I still am high on him as a prospect. But also, it is a bit interesting how it happened against Houston,

a team that doesn't play without size, and RJ is a guy that has had some trouble finishing against size in the interior. So it's worth keeping in mind, that keeping in mind when it comes to contextualizing this game for RJ. But at the least, this is one of a handful of very encouraging performances for the next rookie. Well, and I will also say this, that going into the draft, I warn people like I like Morant over Barrett, but I'm not going to get into business of tearing down RJ Barrett because I think he's an outstanding. prospect myself. And I know you were very high on the kid.

And I will say this, to his credit. This has not been the rookie season that he would have wanted. But of the three, and this is because you can get lucky in the draft, there's no question. Zion went to a much better environment. John Morant went to a much better environment. And, I mean, he's been in the middle, he's been in the eye of the storm, a catastrophe, a team that was ill-fated from the start, that was put together poorly, that fired its coach, you know, in the middle of his season,

that got rid of its leadership and is now going to take over and inevitably will flip that entire roster over. I mean, look, anything that he did this year can be considered a positive. And, you know, they may have ruined, I was thinking about this last night, they may have ruined Kevin Knox. You know, I mean, I talked about this with Charx. while you were awake, Kev. But basketball teams in so many cases are like schools.

And if I can take two kids that are of equal promise, and I can put one of them in a horrible school and one of them in an amazing school and watch the difference between the way that they are able to learn and the way that it affects them even going forward. And he was put in a terrible school, right? This is a kid with all. all kinds of promise that was put into a very bad situation.

So here's just hoping he comes out of it. And sometimes there are guys that are not good enough players and they're in bad environment. And then we fullheartedly blame the environment. In this case, I think it is totally fair to say R.J. Barrett would have had a much greater season if he would have been put in the environments that some other rookies were put in. And you see him come along last night.

Yeah. That's big, right? the way situation and opportunity and environment play a role in success. And that's true for anybody in life, you know, really no matter what you do. This is chaos what he's been a part of. Yes, you know. And sometimes you see the glimmers from these players in bad situations. We saw a positive glimmer from my guy, Frank Nilakina,

and the final possession playing some lockdown defense on Russell Westbrook with less than five seconds to go. And Russell Westbrook is also another example. of a guy that we are seeing how a system is impacting him. He is playing somewhat differently than he has in Oklahoma City. He's not shooting a heck of a lot more threes. In fact, he's shooting fewer threes than he has since his fourth season in the league. But he is shooting more at the rim more than he ever has, according to Cleaning the Glass Data.

Do you know this? Since January? Since January. Now, think about this. This is a point guard. Since January, he's average. 20 points per game in the paint. It's crazy.

It's the number one in the NBA. I mean, it ain't like he's seven foot tall. That's always who leads the league in points in the paint. It's never a point guard. This is crazy stuff that's happening. And why is that? That's because Houston's playing with a five-out offense and Westbrook is able to drive with nobody in the paint.

It's so much different than what he's ever, ever experienced before in Oklahoma City. Like, granted, he had great chemistry with a center like Stephen Adams over the years. And that is something that has been a part of the reason why he had some success within that system. You know, or whether it was in the early days of OKC playing with someone like Kendrick Perkins or Nick Collison. Like, he's had some quality centers that have been screening for him over the years and help turning him into a devastating pick and roll attacker. However, he has never been a very efficient score. And one of the reasons why is because the lack of spacing, never mind the fact that he's a lot of

also been a average or worse shooter. But now in Houston, that weakness as a shooter is minimized because he is able to really just focus on attacking and getting to the paint. Despite the fact he's a point guard, as he said, he's putting up center-esque numbers because of his ability to get there with space. And he, to me, you look at this season

of all the guys that changed teams last summer, he's the best example of how system and situation can impact a player regardless of your age, regardless of what you've been through in your career, the success or failures you've had, look at Russell Westbrook. Just look at him and what he's done in Houston and then imagine players in other situations

that might be best for them. Think about Westbrook. Well, and I also, I'm not going to hold this loss, and I'm not going to make anything of them losing to the Knicks. I mean, truth be told, and I see this all the time. And R.J. Barrett was able to come through,

like you said, Neil E. Keele was able to come through, like these a lot of times you will see throughout the season these uh the very good teams they play against the teams that aren't so good and they coast through it and then they're going to turn it up when they have to and then they're going to win and then every once in a while the team that they're going to turn it up against and go ahead and okay now we're going to put you away that team comes through i mean i saw it all the half the first half of the season i would see teams dicking around get to the fourth quarter and like all right it's time to turn up. But what they didn't account for was that John Morant was going to be like in the top

three or four in the NBA and fourth quarter scoring. Like he just won the games by himself, you know, because you're not counting on that. Like he matched that. And so when it was time for them to turn up, you needed a couple of buckets and he went and got him. The same is true with New York last night. I mean, they make enough plays down the stretch to go ahead and take care of business. Because you saw that fourth quarter, what are they, they're down 10 going into the fourth quarter, and then you saw Houston ratchet it up. They end up winning the fourth quarter by eight points, but they fall two points short. I'm sure they thought they could just put New York away.

And when you get to game 60 of the season, stuff like this happens. So I don't take, I don't take away from Houston at all for dropping this game. It happens. One thing you said that just, you know, we didn't get to talk. about because I was, you know, taking the break. You mentioned the fourth quarter and outscoring them by eight points. It just made me think of the All-Star game with the Elam ending. I just have to say, I love that.

I love that so much. And I did too. And I tweeted it that night, but I hope, and this is, you know, Zach Lowe and Adrian Wardenowski reported that they could put this in, you know, maybe the G-League or, you know, in other formats they could talk about putting them, putting it in, you know, the tournament or something like that. That's what I want. I mean, I think this is a really cool thing.

That's Summer League. I mean, might as well try to. Summer League's good because I have, I don't know how many people know this because, and I don't know if they do it in Vegas. I can't remember. But in Orlando, and they didn't even have that Summer League anymore, but they used to at the Orlando Summer League, if you ended the game and it was tied, no lie,

they would go to the midcourt and they would throw a jump ball, and it was sudden death, Kevin. First bucket wins. That's the way they ended those games. And so it's not like anybody cares enough about Summer League, right? You might as well try it and see how it goes. Or even, I mean, so like this is the way I look at it, right? I'm not sure the NBA will ever have fourth quarters end in this way.

But what if you had overtime end that way? You know, like what if regular season or even postseason overtime? First to 10. Yeah, like how dope would that be, man? Oh, that would be freaking fun. You know what? That's, you know, they do this. Obviously in hockey, they have changed the way overtime goes,

and you can get a, right? And I don't know if you'd want to change it to the scoring like that. Basically, like, you get a point. I mean, I'm in favor for that. Yeah. No, but then they have the play it out, but then they also have the shootouts, you know, at the end. So it's almost like it would be likened to a shootout.

The same way I line up five guys and I shoot five shots, you shoot five shots. Like, if we just said overtime, you played a 10, First one to ten wins. I don't hate that. We may have come up with something. No, I mean, I think that is something that they, at the least. You'd never have a double overtime game, though.

That's okay. That's okay. I mean, I mean, maybe, I don't know. I mean, you lose that. Like, you do lose, like, some of those historic triple, you know, overtime thrillers. But every overtime is exciting. Yes, you guarantee that. You guarantee.

Guarantee. Guarantee. Guarantee every overtime is exciting. And sometimes it's not. I mean, not every overtime. I think you can watch the basketball tournament and see it is generally more exciting towards the end of the games.

But there would be kinks to work out and we'll have this discussion another day. I'm with you on the Elam ending, though. I love it. It was fun. It was fun in the basketball tournament, which happens every summer, and it was fun during the All-Star game.

So maybe it's just fun. And maybe we should do more of it. We were talking about environments and about guys, and especially rookies and kind of what they go into. Another one who I actually saw in person on opening night, and I thought he was fantastic and maybe headed to a much better season than some would have expected.

And that is Kobe White. And then the season has gone badly. Until this last like two weeks where he has just gone all the way the hell off. And last night I'm watching the game, and he had some mishaps there at the end. he also had huge shots at the end before the bulls at the very end are up by like nine and are vomiting all over themselves trying to give the ball give the game away to the Mavericks but this Kobe White has really turned up recently have been getting 30 points on a regular last night he ends up with 19 6 and 5 and he's got the ball in his hands at crunch time

and and let me ask you this because on the flip side this Dallas team, look, they started out on the season, 21 and 10, okay? That was their first 31 games. Since that point, because they have played 62 games now, if I say they're 21 and 10, and right now they're 37 and 25, that means they are 16 and 15 since December 28. And so that's a pretty big sample size. And I know they've been without Luca for some of that time,

Porzingis for some of that time, but they've been about a 500 basketball team for a while now. And I'm not sure that everyone has noticed, even though they have fallen down in the standings. What do we make of Dallas? Because that is, that's a depressing loss to go lose to the Bulls last night. What was that date you set, the record date they had? December 28th is when they became 21 and 10. Since that date, Luca and KP have only played 11 games together. And in those games, they're six and five.

similar to their overall record in the games that, you know, one or neither of them have played in. And with Dallas, you know, it's interesting, you know, to have this conversation because as of late, Chris Debs, poor Zingis is looking like that unicorn, right? He looks like he... At least in some games, but then, like, you see again, right? Like, and that's, this has been the problem and how can you know

if you're going to be able to have both of them healthy? But what do you have? That weekend game, he had 38. And he just won player of the week. week, I think, of the Western Conference, didn't he? In his past 11 games, KP's averaging, 27 points, 11 rebounds, two assists, playing the same great defense that he had had been doing early in the season. He's been awesome since...

But then he's not playing last night. Well, and that's because he's resting on back-to-backs. I know. But, you know, that's part of the conversation and part of what I wrote about earlier in the season about can Dallas realistically view poor Zingis as their second guy, next to Luca. Like, talent-wise,

yes, talent-wise, there's no question KP is that guy that you want next to Luca. But in terms of his durability and the reliability

over the course of a full season, can he be this KP in May and you want him to be this KP in June? I damn well hope so because what they have going here is really special

and it can be even more special than it already is with these two young stars. Let me tell you, But he needs to stay healthy, and that is the fear. Yeah, this has been a very good Tim Hardaway Jr. season. You know, the kid just got beat to hell because, you know, he's at the Knicks and he gets

the massive contract. And his contract actually doesn't look nearly as bad now, right, with the amount of money guys get paid. But he's been good for them. I mean, he was leading them in scoring last night. And just watching him throughout the year, you know, I had talked about at the beginning of the year, my. reservation on them was like who is their third guy.

And on a pretty regular basis, you've been able to count on Hardaway Jr. playing pretty well. And obviously, in Cleaver's good player too. But Hardaway Jr.'s had a good season this year. And, you know, sometimes our perception of guys, you know, change because of the contract that they get. and so they're not, you know, they're not that. They're not good enough that they're undeserving of what they got. But this guy, I mean, he's, you're regularly being able to pencil him in for, you know,

somewhere between 15 and 25 and some nights he can go real big. I've been impressed with him. Sure. And on the other side of that matchup last night, Otto Porter playing his first game since November. He was a plus 11 and granted plus minus is a scurry stat. but it's indicative of the player he has been for many years in Washington now. It's just a nice two-way player. Good shooter, three or five from three last night.

Good defensive player in a 17 minutes last night, as he has been in the past. A positive addition for the Chicago Bulls midseason who can really help slot guys more into their proper roles as they intended at the beginning of the season with him before he got hurt. How about this one? I did not even realize this. I was just saying from watching them. Hardaway Jr., 44% from the field, 40% from 3 on 7 attempts a game. His numbers are really up this year. I mean, 15 and a half points a game in 28 minutes.

You know, and he gets your rebounds, it'll get you some assists. He's killing. It's pretty fascinating. Yeah, I mean, 40% from 3 is, hell, you take that any day of the week for one of your wing guys. Again, another situation guy, right? You know, in past seasons, he's had to do more with the ball on his. hands, but now you're seeing him as a guy who's playing off of others. He's shooting spot-up threes at a very high rate. He's attacking closeouts, making, you know, one or two dribble

jumpers from three or deep mid-range, self-creation shot attempts, and he's making the smart, simple play. And this is something that maybe in the past he was asked to do more than that, and that showed some of his weaknesses, but he's found himself in a proper role next to one of the best playmakers in the league in Luca and one of the better bigs and Chris Saps, Porzingas. Yeah. So the question is, do we find them dangerous? And it is simply a matter of Luca and Chris Sperzenegas.

They are probably better than a 500 team. They are probably not as good as how they started off the season. So there's probably somewhere in between that. But are they a team that we look at and we say they could knock off somebody? They ain't knocking off the clippers. But could they knock off Denver? It'd be a good series, I think. I don't think it'd be a bloodbath.

I would say basically just, you know, I wrote about Dallas before the season, and everybody in that organization I talked to was just hoping for the playoffs. You know, and the fact we're even talking about them now and have talked about them over the course of the season as a team that could maybe make a little bit of a run. They are ahead of schedule.

So by making the playoffs, that alone is a success for them. Luca Dantritch taking the leap that he has is a success for this team. Like, they don't have to go anywhere. They can still lose in the first round. This season is a good step forward for them. But to answer your question, I would say, yes, I think they can compete in one of those matchups.

I don't think they beat the Clippers. I think they could at least give trouble to L.A. You know, or Denver in that two-three matchup. But, you know, they're also only three games back from the four-seed right now, you know? they're not far back from moving up the standings either. Another thing that took place last night, the Grizzlies who are holding off for dear life to the eight seed, beat the Atlanta Hawks is a game I watched,

and maybe the most despicable performance I have seen by a team this whole NBA season. I'm not kidding. I mean, when I talk about rat teams, this is what I talk about. And I know Trey Young has been fantastic this year, but this team had no fun. fire, no fight. If you get a chance, pull up Lloyd Pierce's press conference last night. I mean,

he was beside himself. He's like, I don't even have any, I don't have anything to say. I don't have anything to say. Like, if you can't get effort out of guys, like, I don't know what to say. I mean, they got beat by 40 points last night. It's ridiculous. And when we talk about environment, right, for guys to come into, it's just, it's deadly for young players to be in that type of environment that leads to a point where you're getting beat by 40 points by a Grizzlies team that doesn't have Jaron Jackson or Brandon Clark or Justice Winslow or like three, they don't have three of their top six guys. And that's just,

that's just a team laying down completely. And so I feel bad for Hawks fans because what you want these last 20 games of a season is to really give you hope going forward, especially now you got John Collins in the mix and, you know, you got eyes on having Capella in the mix. next year, but this doesn't go very far in breeding any kind of hope. Hey, at least Cam Redish has been much better the past month or so. He just has.

It's true. He's been pretty good. So, you know, there's some. I know, listen, I watched him that one night. He came up with a couple huge plays down the streets. Their win against Miami. Or the win against Brooklyn, too. Right out of, but right out of the All-Star break.

He had that huge steel. Cam's been good, dude. And he looked like something. Cam's been good on defense all year long. It's just the offense was just horrific early on. Then it went from horrific to bad to average. You know, I mean, Cam has the past month or so been shooting around 36% from three, 37% from three, and, you know, made smarter plays better driving to the rim.

He seems to have found his shot, and now it's about sustaining that. So good for him. The Zion thing has taken off since we last spoke, Kevin. Now, I expressed earlier how, you know, he's going to play a finite amount of games. At most 37. At most. Yeah, at most. Whereas John Morant is averaging almost 18 points per game and he's shooting 49% from the field. There's only two rookie guards with better points per game and field goal percentages in a season.

And those are Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson. And so, like, it's not like John Morant isn't having. historic season himself. But the Zion thing is I will go out of my way to say that it is only because of matter of games. He really

is unlike anything I have ever seen Kev and he is whatever I thought he was going to look like in the NBA was still going to be one of those things where it's like, he's a rookie, so it'll take

you know, it's going to take a little while, but he's eventually going to going to be a super star, superstar. Like, he already is. Like, serious. He's one of the 25 best players in the league already. I don't think that's an exaggeration to say. Charks, Charks asked me if we lined up all the players.

He did this exercise a couple of weeks ago. He said if we lined up all of the players and just said, then we start picking, right? How far down do you get before you take him? And I'm like, I don't know if I would get to like, 10 or 15. Seriously. No,

I'm with you. Like if we're just saying, I'm taking them off the, like we're lining all the players up on the wall. Now, me and you were picking teams. I don't know if I get, how far I get down the list before I take him.

He is an absolute freak of nature. And I was thinking about this the other night when we were watching the LeBron's eye on game, right? So you know how like, you know, our parents or people when we were growing up, they always scoff.

when people would say, like, we've never seen anything like this. They'd be like, well, you never saw Will Chamberlain a person. You never saw Bill Russell or, you know, whether it was boxing like Muhammad Ali or it was, you know, Tommy Hernds or whoever, right? Like, it's always, people always defend their own eras. And we never imagine that at the time that anything's going to look different than it is. But I was thinking of this last, when I was watching that game. Like, you know how we go back and we look like Dr. J or whoever, right?

Like, are we, is there really going to come a time in 30 years where we like look back at videos of guys like LeBron James and Zion Williamson and we've got something like bigger, stronger and more athletic than that? It seems implausible to me that that could be so. is there any chance that that is possible that in 30 years people are going to be like yeah well you know look at those old videos of those guys like they're not like they are now if they would you know if so-and-so would have played in that era but how can you be any bigger stronger and faster than those two i mean i think i think zion's one of those players that could be a success

in any era of basketball and in today's era it's especially fascinating with all the space that we talked about with Russell Westbrook and the pace the teams play at. It's really a perfect world for him, but he could be a success anytime. And, you know, for the Jason's story, Jason Tatum story I wrote on the Ringer. I noticed this quote from LeBron. He said after that game on ESPN, you know, he said, quote, the league is in great hands with guys like Zion, John Moran, Luca Donchage, Trey Young, Jason Tatum, and the list goes on.

I'm just happy to be part of it and be on the floor with those guys in their younger days, end quote. And that's that sort of, you know, it's simple, it's basic, but it's true. Like there are a lot of great young players in today's game that you can look at and think, oh, wow, aren't we lucky that we're going to be watching this guys over the next 10, you hope 15 years? It's a lot of talent. Please tell me you saw at the end of that game, the Lakers and the Pelicans game, I don't know if you're able to catch it, but the end of the game,

maybe the funniest thing of the entire NBA season happened. So you know how all these players are doing Jersey? swaps now. Oh, I know you're going to say. John Morant and Trey Young traded jerseys. The other night when LeBron James was in Memphis, he and John Morant swapped jerseys, but they did it in the tunnel. They didn't do it like out in the open.

But this is the big thing, right? The jersey swap. Bro. Javall McGee asking Zion for his jersey and Zion handing it to him while not asking him for Javall McGee's jersey might be the funniest thing. That video was going around yesterday. was howling. I mean, that is, I know he's not trying to,

isn't it like just common courtesy, right? Like, it was almost like, it would be like a fan asking for the guy's jersey. Like, I think, isn't it like common courtesy that you would, even if you don't want it, you just say like, oh, yeah, give me yours. I wonder how many players got denied. Like, hey, we want our exchange jerseys

when they're like, uh, uh, no, or they pretend, didn't hear him. I'd love to read a story about times. Maybe I should try to try to do that, but I'd love to read a story about times people tried to ask for a jersey and was told now. Do you think Javelle McGee thought anything of it that he was walking back to his locker room with an opponent's jersey, but still his own jersey on because the opponent didn't

want it? Like I would, I'd be so humiliated. I would just take off my jersey. and I would throw it to somebody in the crowd. Like, I can't walk back with your jersey while my jersey is still on. Like, that's the nature of the swap. I mean, that could be a pretty, pretty valuable jersey

in 40 years, you know, or 20 years. Which one? The Zion jersey. Oh, not the Javall one. Zion new. He's like, what am I going to do with that? What am I going to do with a Javall McGee jersey? I'm not hanging it up. So I can't sell it for anything on eBay.

Like, seriously, what am I? I don't want your jersey. I don't know. I don't know what I would use it for. On the show, pawn stars, you know, like,

maybe he would, like he uses a rag to like wash his car. Don't do that. It's a white jersey. It'll get dirty. All right. You mentioned Tatum. And that has been,

unbelievably. Now, you've been in Boston for a long time and for a good portion of this explosion. I listened to Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe talking about it, and I found it fascinating. They were bringing up some other guys that maybe in the middle of the year

of taking that leap from, you know, the guy that might get you 20, 24 points, and certainly have a good season to a guy that, like, I'm the best guy on the court in this game, and I could drop 40 underhead. And I'm, you know, the Lakers were freaking running doubles at him. No, not the Laker. Yeah, was it the Laker game?

Lakers, Utah. A handful of teams have done it recently. Yeah, it was the Laker game. Yeah, that's right. The one where they were like, their face guarding him with Kuzma and whatever else, a couple Sundays ago. This leap that he has taken, Kevin, has been unbelievable.

And one of the things that Bill opined was maybe it was making the All-Star game and that that's like a goal that's out there. And then you, like, feel like you've made it and you're a part of it. And like now, I don't know. What do you make of a guy just exploding like Tatum has mid-season, and a guy that I know you've written about a couple of different times. I mean, I think it's a testament to the work.

You know, in writing the story, obviously, you know, we've seen Tatum explode the past month or so. In February, he averaged 31 points on a 64 true shooting percentage. It's just extraordinary. And Boston was riding him at the end of games, especially with Kemba being out. They really empowered him to be the guy. And he's always shown signs of that.

But last year, he was the league's most. inefficient isolation score of guys that were, you know, high-volume ISO players. And to go from what he was last season to what he is this season, which is one of the most efficient and most lethal ISO and pick-and-roll scores is a remarkable leap. And again, that's a testament to the work that he's always put in, but particularly this past year. He worked the entire summer, and this is in the story, extending his range. So those stepbacks and sidesteps aren't from deep mid-range.

they went to three-point range. And he all, during the season and during the summer, he worked on getting to the rim more often, taking fewer floaters and runners, and instead trying to get to the rim. However, the weird thing is, is I remember, so before the season, when I was writing about Tatum, I mentioned the importance for him to get to the rim,

because that is the ingredient that all great scorers need. We're seeing it right now with Bradley Beale taking a leap, or averaging over 30. We see it all the time with James Hardin. We see it with LeBron. We see it with Paul George, the best season that he had last year. Getting to the basket

and finishing or drawing fouls is how you can consistently become like a 22 to 23 point per game score to like a 27, 28, 29 plus per game score. And Tatum, early in the season, he stunk. He stunk finishing around the rim. Shot only 51% on shots over his first 18 games. But since then, that's not the six. 64% and that's because of a mechanical change that he made during the year or finally figured out during the year with the timing that he picked up the ball on his drives.

It's something he tried to do. I wonder, I haven't read it yet, but I wonder if there was like a conversation he had or like, you know what I mean? Like is there a moment where, because clearly he's got the goods to make that happen as he did. But was there a moment or something that took place that triggered this change, you know? Tatum's trainer, Drew Hanlon, who he's worked with since he was 13 years old, told me on the phone in this quote, we notice that when guys like James Hardin or Bradley Bill drive, they pick up the ball early, then swing it through to draw contact. Jason was trying to draw contact, then pick up the ball, which is why he lost the ball a lot, end quote. And with Tatum, it's true.

Tatum, he would lose control of the ball all the time on his drives. You know, sometimes on his own accord not getting stripped. He would just lose control. And they made that shift mid-season through work in the gym, through film sessions, through Tatum trial and error on the court. And each month, he got better. And, you know, like I said, over the past, you know, over at first 18 games, he was not good.

And since then, he's been terrific finishing around the rim. and that's just exploded overall. And, you know, I think one of the stats from the article that really details his importance is the NBA advanced stats data looking at his drives to the rim. Last season of players with a minimum of 300 drives to the rim, he ranked 112th, and there's 126 players, 112th in turnover rate, 106th, and fouls drawn, 63rd in points rate, which would mean, you know, times he scored or he created a shot for somebody else.

In this season, the big differences of 92 players, he ranks 11th in turnover rate, 12th in fouls drawn, third in points rate. That is a massive leap forward. And that's because of his ability to now shoot from three, which makes him a greater perimeter threat, opening up more lanes to counterattack and get to the basket. His improvements as a ball handler using more hesitations

and his improvements we just discussed, finishing around the rim, using his length, using better footwork, using better timing when it comes to picking up the ball. All of these things have come together for a guy who just turned 22 years old today

to become a guy that looks like over the past month and a half or so, one of the best 10 to 15 guys and now moving forward it's about sustaining it and doing it against traps, doing it against doubles and doing it against in the playoffs

when you have, you know, Kauai, you know, guys like Kauai, all these top end defenders Chris Middleton against you. You might have Janice on you in the east when you have these guys, Ben Simmons defending you, when they're locked in.

So that's the next step for Tatum to sustain this and show that this is for real superstardom. Kevin, one goofy theory that has surfaced that you now will have a totally different perspective on than you would have when we last spoke. And that is that Jason Tatum's numbers have also gone up significantly since his beard connected.

Oh yeah, that's funny. The numbers are all out there. And I ask you for your opinion on this because maybe there is something to the psychology of it and maybe he just feels so much better about himself when he looks in the mirror because I am told that there is a totally new and different Kevin O'Connor.

You have suspiciously not posted any pictures and not posted any pictures of your face. You brought up being a fan of bearded guys on Instagram and that you looked at them and you thought, my God, I would love to have a beard like that. This would be amazing. Bobby Wagner, our producer, tells me he's seen it in person.

He has been effusive in his praise of said beard. Is it true that Kevin O'Connor has a full-on beard now? And do you believe that Jason Tatum's statistical breakthrough has anything to do with his connecting. It absolutely does. And that didn't make it into the article, how to cut that because that's the secret, but it 100% does.

And my beard is coming in. Bobby, Bobby, how did you describe the beard before the show? I said it reminds me of a college offensive lineman, but it's not quite at hockey player during the playoffs level. Yes.

And I would say that is very accurate. I'm sure at some point, you know, we'll post a photo. Is it thick, Bobby? Like, is it big and like, you know what I mean?

It's pretty bushy, you know? It's like coming out from his face a little bit. Like it. So Santa Claus level? No. No, no, no, no. No, it's not that long. That's playoff hockey.

Yeah. That's playoff hockey, right? When you've got the, playoff hockey, it's like almost like coming up to their eyes. You know, it's like all the way up on their cheeks and stuff. That's nuts. Well, I mean, weeks ago or however long it was when we first mentioned the beard, the guy I was talking about on Instagram was Greg Brzezinski.

He's the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, The older gentleman who has just this most spectacular beard and hair. Do you know about this, Bobby? I looked it up. I looked it up afterwards. No, did you look, we talked about it on this show? The guy reached out to Kevin. Oh, I didn't know about this.

So Greg messaged me. He's like, he's talking about me. When I said, like, the picture of him without the beard looks like a normal dude. The picture with the beard looks like this godly man. And it's also true for the guy who runs that company, Beardburn, Eric Bandholz. By the way, you see that meme or whatever you want to call it going around after the coronavirus recommending, like, don't wear your masks if you have a beard. The one on the top right is the Bandholz beard, and that's named after the guy who runs beard print. I didn't even know Beards had a name.

I mean, I didn't know either, to be honest with you. I had no idea. Except for like the Foo Man shoe, right? Or something that like, like, like Pai May and Kill Bill had or something like that. You know, and I actually, you know, for the story, like I talked to a handful of people for the Tatum story. I should have as a joke asked his mom about it.

Like we had like a very like deep, serious, you know, 30 minute conversation for the story. And like, by the way, she is awesome. And Jason calls her a super mom. And like Jason says, you know, his mom. is his best friend and there's somebody like who feels the same way about his mom especially you know I always have but especially this past year with like you know my mom doing everything she has with my dad and making the sacrifices that she had like quitting her you know job to take care of him and

having freaking heart surgery and you know still doing what you could to take care of my dad like my mom's a superhero so like I can relate to Jason feeling that way about his mom especially doing the things that she's done over the years to care for Jason. But you didn't ask her about the beard. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I asked about, I asked about like the serious stuff over the years. And that's all on the story, if you want to read it on the ringer. But I didn't ask about the most serious of them all. And that was the beard. And that's an oversight on me. Do you feel an extreme boost in confidence now that you support the beers? I honestly think it's a good look for me. And I think when it's,

comes in. Let's go. Let's go. When it comes in the way I wanted to come in for me. Oh, God. Kevin O. Bumble is back. He is back. You hipster girls better jump on there now because he's going to be gone soon. Oh, man. I love it. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. We'll see. I am happy with how it looks, though. And I think it's, going to look even better as it comes in more. And thank you to to Greg Brzezinski and Eric Bandles for the inspiration.

Oh my God. I got to see the picture. I got to see it. All right. Well, I can't wait till you unveil it for the world to see. Kevin, I can't love having you back more, man. I'm glad made it through everything. And here we are back doing the Ringer MBA show. And we'll do it again on Friday. Thank you, Chris.

Thank you, Bobby. Thank you, Charks again. Thank you, everybody for listening. and reaching out again. It means the world to me, to my mom, and it meant the world to my dad. Thank you. Thanks to Bobby Wagner for producing another episode.

If you do what you're hearing, go give its rating and review on iTunes. Five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Friday.