The Ringer NBA Show - Should the Spurs Trade DeMar DeRozan and LaMarcus Aldridge? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 19, 2019

We discuss Luka Doncic’s incredible start to the season, including his run of triple-doubles and how it compares to Russell Westbrook's (1:31), before having a knock-down, drag-out argument about whether the Spurs should blow up their older core and try to rebuild around younger players on their roster (20:28). Then, we finish by marveling over James Harden’s incredible scoring season so far, assessing his fit with Westbrook, and wondering whether the Rockets pose a serious threat in the Western Conference (43:17). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. Joining me, he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Bomber, A.Kever, A.Keverna, A.Keverna, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, KATH, KATH, KATH. Yes, I was at the Kliper's thunder game last night, of course. Still know Kauai. That may wait until Wednesday night for George and Kauai to play their first game. together, but George once again had a really nice game for the Clippers. What's the word around there regarding Kauai? Because I'm sure you, as you're there, walking around, talking different people, is there anybody nervous about Kauai?

Because this is three games, right? Well, last night for what it's worth, I was there as a fan. I went with my friend Joey Dossack and watched the game from the stands. It was fun. So you have no idea. No, no idea, no idea. Just because the last time, I was not. walking around through the tunnels. I wasn't dapping up Lawrence Frank or anybody like that.

Out of curiosity. Out of curiosity, did you buy tickets? Joey did last night. Yeah. I'm just interested in how much they were. I don't know. I didn't buy him. Oh, he bought, he bought him. They were off, I think, you know, one of those secondary dealer sites, seek geek, stub hub, who knows. There you go. Were your seats pretty good? Yeah, they were good seats. Yeah. There you go. I mean, Clippers games, Clippers games aren't like Lakers games. We touched on this last week. I understand.

It's like there's empty seats there. It's unfortunate. It's like for this really great team. You know, I did look. It's like you can get great seats for like 90 bucks. And like a Lakers game with the same area would cost you hundreds of dollars. It's at the differences obscene.

When was the last time you went as a fan? Do you do this regularly or no? No. Sometime last year I did. So it wasn't, wasn't too long ago. but it feels, I mean, it's like as you know, like doing media stuff. Like sometimes it does feel weird when you get into that rhythm of then just going sit and sitting in regular seats like we all did growing up.

You know? Oh, I can't, I can't remember the last game I went to as a fan. Oh, a preseason game. But that, I mean, that doesn't particularly count. I guess I went to a preseason game. It was terrible. I hated it. I said this.

I said this to Joey last night. But it's like the game was tight. You know, Clippers won 90, 80. and it's really close down the stretch. There's some close calls. And there's a moment where like everybody's just sitting in their seats. Nobody's standing up. And I'm thinking of myself like,

how is nobody standing right now? This is a awesome finish. And then like the guy comes on the jumbo tron. He's like, everybody stand up. Nobody should be in their seats. And, you know, me coming from, you know, growing up, going to Celtics games with my dad and everything. Like I never,

nobody ever had to tell you to stand. up people just did that and they were loud and crazy and it's amazing seeing different fan bases i think like nicks games when the nicks are good are like that you know or oracle arena when i've been there in the past and hopefully now with chase center golden states like that Oklahoma city it's like that's like that lakers games it's like that but there's just certain games where it's just not as intense and i wish this team as great as the clippers are and it's for what it's worth as great as their broadcast, their in-game presentation is, I wish, you know, the fans are a bit more intense. I wish there are more Clippers fans is what I'm trying to say. Well, one of the things that

that was an example of last night is that even when Kauai Leonard is out, and this is something we knew when they acquired Paul George, even when Kauai Leonard is out, they can many times have the best player on the floor and they can have a closer. I mean, it is a luxury that, you know, the majority of the teams in the NBA do not have. And so, look, any win that they get without Kauai Leonard is a good win. Look, in these games where every night we're seeing 140 to 122, it's odd to see a game where neither team puts up big numbers. For sure.

And to touch on last side's game, it's also the type of thing where nobody really had a big game, except for Montres Harrell. Paul George had 18 points on 7 of 14, and they got some nice little contributions from the role players, but nobody had a great game except for really Harrell. And with this Clippers team, to your original question about Kauai, I don't get any sense that there's real concern about him,

but I think this is what you knew you were getting with Kauai, Leonard, when you sign him. You knew that there's concern of potential injury to his leg. You do know that there's going to be. going to be a necessity to load, manage him, or simply just rest him because of the concerns about his injury that he's had since 2012. I mean, that quadriceps injury is something that originated in 2012, a long time ago. And it's still something that he had a problem with last season the whole year with Toronto. I mean, I remember during the finals after a game,

one of the games in Oakland and Kauai walked through the locker room afterwards. And this dude, like, has a limp sometimes like he's 60 years old. And you don't see it on the court, but it just made me think in that moment, this guy's never going to be, he's never not going to have to deal with this. It's always going to be something. And that's been apparent so far this year. Obviously, the knee injury is not the quad injury, but they are related. And for him in the Clippers this year, it's only about having him healthy for April, May, and June. But then, The luxury, as you said, Chris, is having Paul George, a guy who can do a lot of the same things Kauai does for you. So you can feel more comfortable resting Kauai now that Paul George is back.

Maybe if Paul George isn't back at this point, Kauai might be playing in that game. That could have been the case. But all I know is I am really, really looking forward to seeing both of these guys actually play together. Maybe Wednesday night when the Celtics come to Los Angeles to face the clippers. That could be the first game. We actually get to see how these guys. coexist on the court. And my guess is it's going to be absolutely seamless

because of the adaptable, flexible games that these guys have on the offensive end. And then on defense, just how they can both switch and defend multiple positions, it's going to be pretty difficult for opposing teams to score against and stop on the offensive end. Yeah, I think when that acquisition was made, everybody's initial reaction was that is a great fit.

I mean, Kauai is a great fit. with everybody. As is Paul George. He'd be a great fit with me and you and Bobby. I think that way about Paul George too. I think either one of them, you could put either one of them

on any of the 30 teams and it would not be some kind of big adjustment. They're great team basketball players, both of them. You know, they're plugging plays. Any team. Which is a weird thing to say for a star.

Right? I think, I think that, that's a comment you typically make for a role player. Like this role player can plug in play anywhere on any team. It's the stars that typically the front office or the coaching staff needs to build around or structure their system around. But these guys could play for literally any team.

And I don't think there would be much of a transition, even if it theoretically were to happen midseason, just because they have such adaptable qualities. In a way, maybe that's because some. stars when they emerge. Like we're seeing this right now with Luca Donchish. This guy is just immediately becoming a superstar. Both Kauai and Paul George had more of a slower upward trajectory.

They were they were high-end role players before they were stars. And so they almost in a way, in a way, retain those qualities in their newfound superstardom. Speaking of Luca, this is getting ridiculous. The second youngest player with a 40-point triple double last night in a 117, 110 win over the spurts. He had 42, 12, and 11. He now has six triple doubles in 13 games. He is averaging 9.2 assists per game, which is second in the NBA and two full assists behind LeBron. LeBron's averaging 11 assists a game so far.

And last night, my favorite part was after the game. They asked Luke Adanjic about feeling the ball go in so much early in that game and how that maybe foretold him having this monster game that he had. And he said that he went back to the hotel and he took a nap. And when he took a nap, he had a dream, Kevin. And he dreamed that he was going to score 16 points in the first quarter. And he scored 17 points in the first quarter. And he said, so I guess dreams do come true.

I mean, this guy, he took a nap in the middle of the day. The dream was that he was going to score 16 and he ends up scoring 17 in the first quarter and dreams come true. I thought, I thought he said, I guess dreams don't come true. Like he was making a joke. Oh, look at Luca with the jokes then. I missed that. I thought he said dreams come true. On the other side, dreams do not come true for San Antonio.

that's six in a row, six in a row and eight of nine that they have lost since starting off the season four and one. They are, they are really in a tailspin. Before we get to the spurs, can I say this about Luca though? Yeah. But I mean, I know we've hit on him a ton this season. But 10 days ago, I tweeted out, Luca is a top 10 player already. And two weeks ago in the pod, I said the same thing. And at that point, just 10 to 14 days ago,

a lot of people were like, oh, this is a hot take. This is hot. Really? This is hot for you. Yeah, a lot of people were like, no, no way. He's not a top 10 player already.

At this point, like this dude is top three at worst in the MVP conversation. It's not even a question. At 20 years old, what we're seeing right now from Luca is unbelievable, but it's really not too soon to say he's top 10, is not too soon to put him in the MVP conversation.

conversation. It's because of games like last night, as we've seen many times this season. And as we saw flashes of last year as a rookie, as we saw flashes of in the past when he was playing overseas, this is the norm for Luca Donchich. And this may be the norm moving forward. It will be the norm moving forward for Luca. This guy is for real, man. This guy is for real. And at this point, I feel like saying top 10 feels like an obvious thing to say about Luca. Do you think that, well, look, one thing is he does need to have some playoff exploits. He does need to do that. But what he is doing so far is absolutely insane.

I mean, look, to put him high on list right now is to put him above people that have proven it when it comes playoff time. Though I don't disagree. Right now, are there 10 guys I would rather have on my team than Luca Donchich? the answer is no. And I mean, you think Phoenix regrets a year ago? I mean, it's not like there weren't people screaming from the rooftops that Luca Donchitz was the guy and that Luca Donchitz should go number one in the draft. And not only they, I mean, it seems like Atlanta is going to be very, very happy with

Trey Young, right? Like that's one of those. Sacramento, the Marvin Bagley thing hasn't gotten going yet. He's been riddled by injury last year, and then he's missed the beginning of this year. But if you could go... The Gaffling Kings took Bagley over, Luca, to quote Jason Gallagher from Halliluca.

Well, I mean, if you could go back in time, though, I mean, look, one guy has suspended 25 games for using performance and enhancing drugs, and the other guy has six triple doubles in the first 13 games of the season in his second year. I feel like the triple double talk, I think in a way devalued what Russ could do. It devalues what Luca can do.

It is so much more than just hitting 10 points. I mean, in 10 assists and 10 rebounds, it's the way in which the player performs. And what Luke is doing, it goes beyond just triple double. I don't know. I think with Russ a couple years ago, it almost became something where it was like, it became a negative against him.

Where we're like, oh, triple double, who cares about the stats? And I hope it doesn't become that with Luca like it than the rest. Look, and we argued this for years. It's because people don't like Russell Westbrook. That's the truth. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I go to, I go to games. I go to 50 games a year.

You know how many triple doubles I see? Like, I could count on my hand in 50 games. And for a guy to average that is just insanity. Insanity. It isn't. It is insane. But I think it's different size of the same coin, Chris. When it comes to Westbrook, our arguments at the time, typically, like, you rightfully

so, we're both amazed by the raw numbers he's putting up. But part of me, you know, it's like I wish sometimes there are more focused on the other areas of his game. Like, I wish he can improve his scoring efficiency. You would talk about some of his weaknesses. On the positive side, it's like how much progress he made as a playmaker was astounding. And sometimes the numbers can reflect that. but oftentimes they don't.

And with Luca, it's the same thing. It's like there's a lot of talk about the triple doubles. Like last night, there was a great statistic that Tim McMahon from ESPN tweeted out that Luca Donchurch joined LeBron as the only players in NBA history to score 40 points in triple doubles as 20-year-olds. It's crazy. Magic Isaiah Thomas and Oscar Robertson were the only other players to do that at age 21.

Like, that's a great stat. But also, so what if he got 11 rebounds or 8? So what if he got 12 assists or just 9? I don't think the 10 is necessarily the number that matters as much as just the fact that this guy is doing, putting these numbers up consistently, but also in the manner in which he's doing it. Luca last night, some of the passes that he made, these are not empty assists. They're not empty rebounds. These are, it's like we had an article by Rob Mahoney yesterday on the ringer about the value in having Luke. could be a good rebounder because he's able to jumpstart possessions on offense rather than

waiting for an ala pass. And this is what I'm getting at. And this is what I'm getting at. And with Russell Westbrook for years, people said that he's just hunting for rebounds. Sometimes there was cases where he was, but there was also value in him actually being a good rebounder. Wait, oh wait. My point is said that or you said that people?

My point is that I wish sometimes rather than just talking about the triple double, we talk about the quality in which. I know. I know you wish that. I know you wish that because you crapped on triple doubles when Russell Westbrook was doing it. And so now you have to devalue it. With no, with Russ for me, it's amazing in both cases. My problem with Russ then and still is now is the decision making and the poor shot selection and the poor shooting, the the lack of defense, the unwillingness to cut. That was my issue with for us that the rebounding the rebounding mattered the passing was remarkable because he got better every single year as a passer in the scoring you know there's good parts there's bad parts with lucca the defense

needs to get better there's no doubt about that but he's already one of the best playmakers in the league already one of the best decision makers in the league already a really good rebounder and the scoring the three point shot still needs to get better but he takes so much off the dribble from three and he still has good overall shot selection that there's a very good overall shot selection that there's very little to knock him for in that regard. The thing these two teams do have in common, Westbrook, when he put up those kind of numbers of Donchich, is that these teams would be no good without them. And so they almost need what they bring to the table every night.

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Yep, that's free money for any online purchase. Go to privacy.com slash NBA. sign up now. So the Spurs are on the other side of this. They have not reached this level of futility since like the year before Duncan. So I'm going back to like 1997 since we have seen this kind of losing from San Antonio, who has of course been a hallmark of success for now working on 25, 30 years. Geez, we talked about them last week. And I went and looked it up this morning, they are 28th in defensive efficiency in the NBA, 28th out of 30 teams, which is just absolutely stunning to me. If there's anything with a team like that, you would think that,

you know, a Popovich team that that's the kind of team that would grind you down. They play a lot of half-court basketball or seemingly are willing to or have been for so many years, but for them to be that bad defensively is truly stunning, even if it is early in the season still. I mean, you get Lamarcus Aldridge 53 years old in the court, Demarta Rosen, who has never been known for his defense. It's really fascinating how a team with the two best, you know, two of the best perimeter defenders in the league and Dejante Murray and Derek White, of which they barely ever play together, it's weird that a team, with those two guys is not good defensively. It either raises the question of how much does perimeter defense matter in the context of the having an overall great defense?

Is it the rim protector that is most important in that sense? And in that regard, Aldridge is not a potent rim protector. Or is it more about like we touched on last week, Chris, after the article I wrote, that you have someone like DeRosen who for all the good things he can do on offense, his placement on the roster does mean that you aren't able to play Derek White and DeJante Murray together as often as you possibly can. Two great perimeter defenders, two young, up and coming point cards on the offensive end. I think the spurs, as I said last week, need to look at moving DeRosen and or Aldridge and start just bringing this youth movement, man, and start focusing on development. You're not going to make

the playoffs. The season's over. San Antonio is not going to make the postseason for the first time. Seasons over. They're five and nine, aren't they? What are you talking about? The season is over. I mean, look. Chris, it's, you know whose timing is now? It's the bright now suns.

Oh, good grief. Look, all of this stuff can happen within a couple of days. Everything can change. I wonder, I wonder if they should, look, Popovich is not going to be around all that long, right? So he's only got a couple more years that he's probably going to be on that sideline. this could be due last year or all you know hey all right wait for this one how about this one hear me out okay could they be and they never make in season trades could they be a destination for chris paul

no that that's dumb no that would be the worst move imaginable for them but like because he's 34 years old and he's not bringing this team anywhere that derrick white and dejohn how many minutes do you think they've played together this season, Chris? How many hands? I have no idea. Just throw a number out. I feel like you're, I feel like you're greatly overrating those two players anyway,

but I'll say they played a hundred minutes. Seven minutes. They've played seven minutes together. And you know what? Maybe I am greatly overrating them. These guys are great defensive players, period. They already are at 23 years old. for Dejante Murray and 25 for Dergaard.

They are great defensive guards. Offensively, we'll see. I'm not sure how good these guys really are. DeJante Murray, he can motor the ball up the court and transition. And, you know, he can score with the rim, can make some passes to his teammates. But in the half court, he's close to a zero. He can't shoot threes. He's inefficient away from two, two, three feet away from the rim.

He's got like Ben Simmons disease. He can't score away from the rim. And then Derek White. he's a good shooter on a low volume, but he's not a high volume guy. He's more of a role player-esque guard for you. Neither of those guys are standout offensive players, except for DeJante Murray in transition, which is like 15% of offense. Transition, I know, I know like transition is fun.

It's awesome to watch. But I think oftentimes when we talk about, oh, he's an amazing player on the break, every player across the league, it makes up like 15 to 20%. of your offensive possessions for a team. It's a small part of the offensive equation. And so both these guys, to your point, Chris, they may be overrated overall as prospects. I just would like to see those guys actually develop and play together more often to really develop them together and see what these guys really have and, you know, then get something

back for DeRosen and or Aldridge and then start building this young team out because right now This is a team that's just stuck in the middle. This team could maybe they slip into the postseason as a seven or an eight seed. I would bet against it. Okay. But here's my problem. Okay, with you wanting to move on from the good players to, you know, start, start building. What building?

Build around what? You're building around your whole youthful core. You're building around. You're building with a future focus. De Rosen has a plan. But you got to have a player. You got to have some play. The Rosen has a player option.

De Rosen has a player option for next year. Do you really want him to pick that up? Maybe you do. Maybe you want to build around De Rosen. I don't. I want him gone. Aldridge, he had, he had his guaranteed his deal partially guaranteed

for next year. His one year left on his deal at 50 years old. I'm not sure I want to build around Aldridge moving forward. I'm not sure that's the guy. He's going to turn 40 or not 50. He turns 35 next summer. I don't know.

No, Aldridge looks like a liability on the defensive end of the floor. Sometimes he has games where he pops for 35 points, but he also looks like a guy that can't bring in every single night anymore. I'm not sure these are the guys that I want to be spending 30 minutes a game investing in just to be an 8th seed and get whacked in the first round. I'm not sure I want that reality for the Spurs. I want a reality where a team can have a sustainable future, and that means investing in the future.

That's what I want for San Antonio. You might want to be fine with a 7 or 8 seed. I don't want that. I don't know what they're going to have to show for the Kauai Leonard deal. I mean, that was always the idea. They had nothing. They got nothing for. They traded Kauai Leonard for two years of DeMar Rosen and Tiago Splitter 2.0.

One of the worst deals we've seen in recent history. Oh my goodness. You're calling Yaka Portal Tiago 30.0? That's not really a knock. Splitter. Splitters are champion in the block of the bronze. that's it. It's not. Splitters,

you know what? I guess if we're, if we're just going to go with raw facts, you're right. I'm not sure the level of, I'm not sure the level of contribution, but. Yeah, I mean, that's sort of my,

the thing, though, it's like you can, Pertil, Perl's a role player. And they traded Kauai and Danny Green, by the way. Like, sometimes I feel like I forget that. Um, Kauai and Danny Green for DeRosen and Pertil.

And by the way, this is no reason. to bash the spurs for that decision with having the benefit of hindsight. But I remember at the time, there's a lot of shock across the league that that was a deal they ended up taking because they were demanding more from other teams across the league that were building their offers around younger players. And it's fascinating in hindsight. I wonder with San Antonio, I understand the logic in wanting a proven guy into Rosen.

For some of the reasons you're touching on Chris, wanting to continue to compete, wanting to build around a young group that can continue winning. And by the way, last year, this team was really good. It was a good team last year. And this year, I think they're still going to be in it in the playoff bubble. I'm not sure they end up making it this year, but they're going to be at least in it. I think there's logic to that towards the end of Greg Popovich's coaching career. But I do wonder if at all there could be any regret and not taking a younger based package.

I would keep DeMarre. I mean, he's 30. He's not 35. Why? All right. All right. Just 34. Can I ask why?

I'm just curious. Why? What's your reason for wanting to? So, De Mardo is, let's say he ought. I know. This is going to be crazy. No, wait, wait, wait for it. Watch it.

This is going to be super crazy what I say, right? The reason I want to keep him is because he's really good. And you need really good players. And if you get rid of him, I'm unsure that you get somebody that is really good. This is pretty simple stuff. Why do I? want to get rid of him. I mean, you may not think that DeMartre Rosen's really good.

I'm aware. You don't think DeRosen's really good. I do. I mean, he is good. He did 36 last night, for God's sake. He is good. But being good doesn't make you right. What?

He doesn't make you right for your given circumstances, you're a given situation. Sometimes it's just not the right time to have that player in your life cycle as a franchise. And I don't think having 30-year-old DeMard to Rosen right now is for the best for the San Antonio Spurs. I think building with a young, gritty roster and the type of system they want to build

with moving forward in addition to losing a lot of games and having a higher odds at a high draft pick and getting that next guy. I'm just, I'm just unsure who you're building around. Dude, you said the same shit when it came to the Grizzlies. I don't know. I would take Mark of Soul and Mike Conley.

And now you're all about Jama rant and Jared Jackson and all these guys. You said the same stuff. They made the playoffs and the Western Conference finals. Seven years. I know that. But my point is what I'm saying to blow up the Grizzlies, you're like, no, what are you going to build around? Well, you find new players to build around. That's what happens in sports.

Players come, players go. Comparing San Antonio to the Grizzlies might be the most foolish thing I've ever heard. These situations are obviously massively different. I'm simply comparing your state. of saying, I don't know who you're going to build around. So I don't want to lose to Marta Rosen. And I'm saying you said the same thing with Markersoll and Mike Conley. And my point then was, and it is now in regards to San Antonio, you find new guys to build

around. That's the key. Finding the right guys to build around to sustain winning rather than resigning or having him opt in a 30-year-old player who's good, but isn't necessarily the right guy for what you want to be as a franchise. Okay. Well, so here's the truth. And I hate to tell you this.

You have to then base your franchise on getting lucky. That's what you have to do. Because allow me to remind you that the Grizzlies were supposed to give their pick away. They're supposed to give their pick away in the draft.

They're supposed to give their pick away to the Boston Celtics. All right? So let's say the odds played out and they gave their pick away. You tell me what kind of situation they're in right now. They got lucky and so they got the number two pick on a long shot. And so now it looks like, oh, they got great to build around, right? But if they would have given away that pick, they wouldn't have even had a draft pick,

then what do they have? I don't know what this alternate reality looks like, but I do know the facts. They wouldn't have John Morant for sure. And that would suck. And then what do they look like? But they would have their 2021 unprotected first round pick. and maybe this reality would be worse. In fact, it probably would be worse.

Maybe. But I don't know. But they still would have their unprotected, unprotected, unprotected 2021 first-round pick. Because as of now, they could be giving that away. They could give that away. And with Memphis, I think this reality that they have is much better. But that alternate reality doesn't necessarily mean it's horrible.

They can still get a great player at that point. It just might not happen as soon as you would have hoped for. Well, and then that would have been five years and no free agents want to come. And I mean, I just, I don't agree with bottoming out. I think it's a fool's errand. And for you to, and for you to say that you just get lucky. Don't don't. I'm not saying the Spurs should tank.

All I'm saying is is trade Demartre Rosen and maybe Lamarcus Aldrich too. You're going to suck. And you might have like the fifth fourth worst record or the fourth worst record. Maybe you end up sucking enough to have the worst record. I don't know. But it's not like the Spurs team. isn't not going to compete. I just don't look at this.

Like this team still has good players on. I feel like you're doing, I feel like you're doing this because you predicted them at the beginning of the season, not to. But the Western Conference, the way it has shaken out so far. What I predict has nothing to do with anything. I don't care about being wrong.

But what I'm saying. In fact, I like being wrong. It's going to be wrong. Right now, well, please cut that up, Bobby. That's a great clip. You're good at it.

I'm not as good as you are at it, Chris. Right now, right now they are three games back from the playoffs, which is Minnesota is in the 8th seed. The way things have shaken out so far this year, we have lost teams that, all right, at least one is in dire straight. So we had marked up the Warriors as a playoff team and they ain't a playoff team this year. The Blazers, we had marked as a playoff team and at least through the first 14 games, they're five and nine so far. And so you've got those two teams. So I look at it and I say there's places there.

Once you get past the Lakers, Rockets, Nuggets, Clippers, and Jazz, those five teams. Somebody's going to have to be six through eight. And you look right now and it's pretty wide open. I mean, who do you believe in the most? The Mavericks, the Sons, the T-Wolves, those are all playoff teams as of, today. Which of those teams do you believe in the most? Mavs, Sons, T. Wolves? The Mavericks?

Of course. I believe in them the most. It's not even, not even close. They have a potential MVP on their roster. All right. And then once you get past there, it's like a bunch of losing records. Everybody, that's what I mean. The spurs are on the playoff bubble. And I'm just saying, like,

you're always, we never know the way this stuff is going to play out. And so. My, my point, my point is, like, yes, could make the playoffs. Yes, they could as a six, seven, or eight seed. Whoopty-do. They lost in a game seven to the two seed last year.

Why are we acting like they're so far off? Like, oh, they're just getting the playoffs and get bounced. Like, they lost to the two seed in a game seven. So all I'm saying is- Because they started all five and nine, we should get rid of their good players. Okay, look, look, you're looking at this season for San Antonio. I'm looking at the next 10 years.

that's the difference. I'm thinking for San Antonio right now with DeMara Rosen. He can become a free agent next summer. Is it more beneficial to keep him and maybe slip into the playoffs? Or is it more beneficial to maybe you don't make a trade, but at least explore trades. I don't know what's out there for DeMar. There wasn't much of a market for him when the Spurs traded for him. That's why there was so much shock when it actually happened.

But at least thinking about and exploring the idea internally, I think that's, the right thing to do for this franchise. And I have a hard time understanding how, like, you are so firmly against that when the, in the long term, Demar can leave next summer. He could choose to leave. And you could lose him for nothing. So like, you don't might not have a choice to keep him. He may choose to leave. And for San Antonio, I'm saying because they're just a bubble team, because they're a team that's in all likelihood not going to make much noise in the postseason, it's at least reasonable to think about trading them. And same goes for Lamarcus Aldridge,

who turns 35 next year with one year left on his deal. And maybe, just maybe, in a market, in a trade market right now, where there's nobody available, there's nobody relevant on the market. Maybe if you were to plop Lamarcus Aldridge on the block and say, hey, we're willing to trade to Rosen or Aldridge, maybe for San Antonio, some team out there that actually feels like they have a shot, is going to be like, we need that guy. And maybe they overpay for that player.

And for San Antonio, maybe that becomes a more beneficial decision for them to make rather than keeping them. That's my only point. My only point is that San Antonio is needs to and is looking at more than just this season. It's not just about making the postseason. It's about building a sustainable winner that is best positioned for success over the next decade. not just seeking in the postseason in the 1920 season. This is about 2020, 2021, 2021, 2022, 2023. It's not about bottoming out. It's about sustaining success and exploring all your options. That's my only point, Chris. That's it. Because you think you can get something good

for DeMurzon right now that would sustain that success. Maybe you can. Or Lamarcus. Maybe you can. Yeah, especially because, especially because the nature of the trade market. Right now, nobody's available. Nobody good is available. So maybe if you put a guy who, to your point, in your own words, De Rosen is good. And Aldridge still has nice moments as well. Maybe if that guy gets put on the market, you have multiple teams that are like, we need that guy to take advantage of our situation this year to have a shot. I don't know what team that would be, but there's a handful of teams out there that can make moves.

Even somebody like Dallas theoretically, if they're like, we get a maximized this year with Luca or Boston, which could use a big man. there's a handful of teams out there or Indiana. I don't know. Orlando, maybe one of these teams is like, this is a guy that can help put us over the top. You don't think there's any way that they could keep those two and enhance that. I mean, sure.

You could go that way. That was the point. I just don't look at it like they're the problem. I don't think the rest of these guys are all that good. It's not that they're the problem. It's that they're just maybe not part of the, solution in the grand scheme of the franchise. That's what I mean. Like De Rosen is a good player. And I think, I think it's a shame with De Rosen that he gets

knocked for not shooting threes. Like that's a, that's an issue in his own game that he doesn't shoot threes for a lot of reasons. But he's also, you know, it's an issue that he isn't a good defender. But he's a really, he's transformed himself into a really good playmaker. And that showed last season when San Antonio put the ball on his hands after Desauncte Murray went down. De Rosen in the pick and roll and in isolations and post-ups too became a really good playmaker for that team in the in their scheme of ball movement and he can become a guy who scores for you at the end of the clock. There's value in that.

Eldridge too. Maybe he has slowed down defensively. Maybe he doesn't bring it offensively every single night and he has some, you know, annoyingly, frustrating games for Spurs fans, but he can still have big games. games for you as a scoring post presence. These guys are still good. My point is that maybe it's just not the right time for them with San Antonio, but for another team like it was from Marco Sol last year with Toronto, maybe they can be that really good piece that a team adds and it can potentially put them over the top. And for San Antonio, I think there's logic to at least considering moving

these guys or exploring trading these guys because you could get more than, you might expect to get because there's nobody else out there. For San Antonio, it's not just about the season. It's about the next 10 years. Well, look, luckily we're going to do podcast all year. We'll reconvene on this when they're 30 games in. They're five and nine right now. And when they're in the sixth seat and you're like,

ha, ha, I told you so. I'm going to say, I still feel the same exact way. Oh, you think they're going to be in the six seed? And I'm going to get to San Antonio. I mean, you might get a chance, but I'm still going to feel the same exact way. I've got to imagine they're 28th in the NBA

in defense is not going to stay that way. I just refuse to believe that. I don't, dude, I mean, that's miserable. 28th. Aldridge isn't moving the same way

in defense right now. I thought Aldridge was pretty solid last year on the defensive end. Like I was almost like impressed at then 33 years old doing what he did. This year he does not look good on that end of the floor. All right,

Kevin, we'll get right back to it. I want to remind everybody today's show brought to you by Brilliant Earth. Create your own one-of-a-kind engagement ring from a variety of ethically sourced diamonds, gemstones, metal types, and settings with Brilliant Earth. Brilliant Earth has exclusive, unique designs you can't find anywhere else brought to life by master jewelers. They also offer wedding rings, earrings, bracelets, and necklaces. Brilliant Earth is also the global leader in ethically sourced fine jewelry. They offer beyond conflict-free diamonds, along with fine jewelry, crafty jewelry,

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That's Brilliantearth.com slash ringer NBA. James Harden last night scored 36 and didn't hit his average. And that should tell you how insane it is what he is doing so far as he's averaging 39 points a game. And I do think we need to say for a moment, look, this has, they've started off a level. and three. They've won eight games in a row. And if the questions were the two highest usage guys in the NBA, how are they going to coexist and flourish in tandem? Hardin has been enhanced, which I thought would be, I am higher on what Russell Westbrook than most of my peers. I still didn't think that Hardin's numbers would go up. You know what I mean? Like, that is one thing that I would

would have really bet against that the numbers would go up for James Harden. You figured that his would take a dip in this, but once again, Russell Westbrook plays next to somebody that is flourishing greatly. He did it for Paul George last year. He did it for Durant for many years, and Kevin, I didn't see this one coming. I didn't know how it was all going to work. I thought it would either be devastating or a disaster. It appears it is devastating. certainly offensively. It's devastating. And we'll get to how it holds up defensively as the season goes on.

But Hardin's numbers going up is not something I saw coming. Did you? Well, I mean, it's fascinating because his assist have stayed the same, 7.5 last year to 7.6 this season. But like you said, the scoring has gone up. And that's quite shocking. I thought Westbrook would dig into that a lot more than he actually has.

It's interesting how it's happened, too. It's not like the rockets are running. I would have expected, and maybe at some point they will, Dan Tony to run more, you know, like double high screens with Westbrook handling and Hardin popping for threes, more off ball stuff. But no, it's pretty much just as much isolation and pick and roll for Hardin as it was last year.

It's just now instead of Chris Paul standing in the corner and watching it's Russell Westbrook standing and watching. Well, and the craziest thing is you've got Harden Westbrook Capella. Capella is having a great season so far. And then with Gordon out, I mean, it's like Daniel House. And then PJ Tucker, Austin Rivers, once you get past that and you get those guys healthy, you don't play a ton of guys when it comes to playoff time, but it gets light after that.

I mean, this is the Hardin Westbrook show and every night. I mean, God, 39 points a game is crazy. And Westbrook said, don't know, you know, this quotes everywhere today, don't normalize what Hardin's doing. I don't think anybody's normalizing it. Like 39 points of game is insane. The only guy that's average more than that if this were to hold up even close to this is like two Will-Chamberland seasons. We've never seen this before. Yeah.

It's, it's, I mean, you and I have discussed this many times and Hardin has a game that a lot of people don't like. They just don't like the way Hardin plays. And I find that to be a shame because what we're seeing is some all-time great stuff on the offense and into the floor. He is a player who every single season defenses have tried to find new ways to defend him, to stop him. And he constantly adds to his game improving his floater, adding variations to his step. back threes and his side step threes continuing to master the art of scoring around the rim by adding more touch finishes, improving from scoring at different angles, improving at drawing files for that matter.

He is somebody who every single season has never been complacent with his greatness as a player who is a all-star for seven consecutive seasons. He got better again. Well, I think the people that don't like it are that fancy back. basketball is a team sport. And when a guy has 25 field goal attempts and 14 and a half free throw attempts

a game, you do a lot of watching one player. Yeah, you do. And some people enjoy watching one player play basketball. There was a great clip of a PJ Tucker standing in the corner. This was at the end of

the Rockets Timberwolf scheme. Rockets are up 14 points. with about a minute 40 left in the game. And Hardden, this is the play where he danced, I guess I think, who is it, a Kogi on Minnesota, if I remember correctly. Hardin danced, dribble the wall for like 10, 15 seconds straight. And PJ Tucker, if you watch that replay

in the bottom right of the screen, he's holding a conversation with a fan, the entire possession, the entire possession. Okay. And Hardin's dancing and shooting a three. So to your point, Chris, some people don't find enjoyment in watching that. I found it quite hilarious and quite enjoy them.

Some guys don't enjoy it. A guy that is on his own team is so bored he needs to find somebody to talk to. I don't know if he was bored. I think he was talking trash. Like after Hardin hit the shot, he kind of put his hands up like a, like, and I told you so type of thing. Oh, that's pretty awesome.

Yeah, it's great. All right. So the last thing, I saw Denver in person over the weekend. And it just, I do want to give them a shout out because what I saw from them, especially in the second quarter, was absolutely devastating. The best performance I have seen this year as an opposing team that came to Memphis, the most impressed I have been with the team this year. And Denver, you know, what stands out so much about them, Kevin,

is we talk so much about lack of depth for so many of these teams. Once you get past three and four guys, bro, they bring off so many good players. I mean, they are just loaded. They have such depth. And, you know, in the playoffs, it comes down to who the best guy is. And Yokic does not look the same, by the way. He looks more oafy this year. Well, he is.

He gained weight. Yeah. And he looks it. He gained about eight pounds, something like that. But they have a ton of guys that come off their bench. Usually when people bring in their benches, there's some guys on there that you're like, who's that guy, who's that guy, right? That is not true with them.

They're loaded. Denver fits your rule. It's just add guys who don't suck, right? Yeah, right. Maximum amount of guys that don't suck. Yeah. Right. And they have it.

Now, I don't know. Jamal Murray could have had 60 points in the game I went to. He was just absolutely out of control. troll awesome. But I mean, it's really going to come down to Murray. How big of a star can Murray be when it comes playoff time? Because he's kind of their guy because you just got to hope Yokic gets in better shape by that time. He still is such a talent that he's going to be able to put up numbers.

But damn, he's Oafy. That would, that would make me mad if I'm a Nuggets fan. Like, how are you going to come back in worse shape? How? How? How you come back in worse shape? Like, these guys are all, everybody around the league's getting in better shape.

You come back in worse shape. That's not fair. Yeah, he, look, I love Yokic, one of my favorite players to watch. We in our lifetimes, Chris,

have not seen many pastors at the level that he's at, even when he is, Ophi is you're saying. But, dude, one of my buddies texts me during the game, he said,

how does Yokic run? I said he doesn't. It's kind of like a light, jog into a walk most of the time. If he can get to where he could run by playoff time, maybe that'll be, that'd be all right. All right, what are you going to be working on next?

Working on a couple different things over over the next week. I'll have something on the website tomorrow. Now, do you think that the whole Spurs thing is, is this kind of deep-seated with the rivalry with Serrano a little bit, maybe? No, no. I just feel like you got, I feel like you got very passionate about a team

that I would not expect you to get passionate it about. By the way, like, congrats to Shea for being on Deas and Miro on Monday night. I've not watched that episode yet because I was at the game, but I look forward to seeing Shea on Jesus and Mero. Oh, okay.

I've got it. I've got it taped too. That was Monday night? Yeah, Monday night, yeah. Okay, I got to go back and watch that. Kevin, it is always a pleasure. I will talk to you on Friday. Have a good day, Chris.

Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us rating and review on iTunes. stars five stars really helps and we will talk to you on friday