The Ringer NBA Show - Should We Believe in the Philadelphia 76ers? With Michael Pina | The Answer

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Seerat is joined by The Ringer’s own Michael Pina to discuss the state of the Philadelphia 76ers heading into the playoffs. They begin by examining Joel Embiid’s recent performances, the adjustments he’s made within his game throughout the season, and the possible effects of his incredible usage rate. Then they debate whether or not they believe in James Harden’s playmaking abilities and his compatibility with Embiid’s skill set (21:03). Next, they look at past iterations of the team that fell just short of expectations and compare them with the current rotation (35:51). They end the pod by speculating on the future of the 76ers if they get bounced too early in the playoffs (50:41). Host: Seerat Sohi Guest: Michael Pina Associate Producer: Chris Sutton Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's official. One Shining Podcast is back, and I am your host, Tate Frazier. And as March Badness begins, we're covering everything from Selection Sunday all the way to the championship and beyond. We're going to have great guests that are coming through on the show. And look, if you're a friend of the program and you're already subscribed, you don't have to do anything. OSP is back. It's going to be right back in your feed. And if you're not a friend of the program, and this is your first time on the rodeo, then let me tell you this. You need to go to Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast and smash subscribe today because the OSP show is back. Hello, welcome to The Answer.

The voice you're hearing introducing you guys today is not Kyle Man. As much as I miss his, you know, dulcet tones, we actually had to be separated. We really got into it pretty bad a couple days ago. So we're on a bit of a timeout right now. And instead we've got, you know, I think we've got a great guest today. We've got Michael Pina. You all know him from the ringer. and all the great articles that he's been writing for us.

A much friendlier face. I think, I think we're going to get along a lot better. We've developed, I think, what is a good rapport. So I'm excited to have him on. Michael, how's it going? Just a lovely introduction just made my day. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

See? See, like, why, like, Kyle could be more like that, right? I'm setting the bar so high right now. You really are. You really are. Today we are, well, I'm having like, I'm having this creeping sensation. And it happens, it happens at different points every, every season where I start to talk myself into the Philadelphia 76ers. And what happens when you talk yourself into the 76ers is the more you start to believe in them, the more anxious you start to feel too. Like you have this feeling in your gut that you're like, really? Really? Are you doing this? But they are 22 and 7. since the new year. Fourth best offense, 10th best defense. They have so,

so many markers of contention. They have Joelle Embed, who might be the best player in the East, MVP candidate, probably the MVP favorite at this point. Janice is creeping up on him. Yokic is always kind of going to be in that picture. But they also have a lot of questions.

You know, they play some of the worst transition defense that you've ever seen. And they play stylistically very different than the two teams that are kind of ruling the East right now in Boston and Milwaukee. So I don't know. Is this going to be a situation where their style ends up being the perfect sort of

matchup against those guys? Or are they simply just a good regular season team, a promising team that always finds a way to flounder? And they do have James Hardin. So that adds to the equation there. But there's so much to get into with this team. And this is kind of a response. to a podcast we did earlier in the season.

We promised you guys that we would revisit the Sixers. And some of those questions have been answered, but the more you answer questions, the more new questions pop up. So I'm excited to get into it today. The Sixers are such a fascinating team every single year. They're always tantalizing. They always seem to disappoint.

We have to talk about them because the playoffs do not begin tomorrow. Right? There's still 20-odd games, not even left in the regular. season. We're in the stretch run. But for me, it's like I can't ever just jump two feet in to the Sixers pool. I don't do that. I've learned my lesson. I learned it a long time ago. And that said, just watching them on last Saturday night against the Bucks, like winning that game, it's only

one regular season game. Doesn't mean a whole ton, a lot of noise and stuff like that. But I was impressed. A very impressive win. So yeah, I'm looking forward to this conversation. Yeah. You know, one thing that stuck out to me about that 76ers win and also that loss against the Celtics a couple weeks ago

is Joelle and Bede is sort of giving me the vibes of Janice onto Ticumpo and maybe 2021 where these matchups that used to give him a lot of trouble, he's slowly starting to figure them out. I'm not saying he's there yet. I'm not saying

he's there yet, but I feel like he's getting enough reps on Brooke Lopez. That game against the Celtics, it felt like he was starting to figure out Al Horford. Now, I don't know if he's figured out Grant Williams. I was about to say, I'm so glad you brought it up. He just, he hasn't figured out the puzzle that is Grant Williams, just, you know, getting into him with the leverage, the low body of gravity. It's just he's just, Grant is a, is a, an enigma for a lot of, scores and Joelle M. Bede is on that list as well. Well, Grant Williams is just a puzzle that even Grant Williams himself has never really quite been able to figure out. That is, that is unfortunately for Grant because of the night that he had yesterday. Not going to be the day that we

do like 10 minutes on Grant Williams, but next time you're back, we certainly will. And it will probably be in June when Grant Williams is kind of toe to toe with Tatum for winning finals MVP and we have to discuss that. So we can save that for later. But yeah, no, it's like the Celtics

in particular have so many guys that they can throw it in bead. And that is something that gives me a lot of pause. But at the same time, I feel like Al Horford, who at one point gave him so much trouble that the 76ers decided to actually trade for him is a guy that now I

like Embeded is realizing, okay, like, not only am I bigger and stronger than him, but he's figuring out how to use that. With both Williams, it's a bit of a different scenario. That's another thing for him to sort of figure out. I think that, like, when he tries to bump a guy and it gets him actually a little bit off balance, because he's actually just not that used to playing against guys who can match him strength-wise. But overall, I just like, this season that Embedd is having and the way that he is slowly sort of starting to analyze, these matchups like yesterday or Saturday

against the bucks it was a little bit more like okay well we're just I'm just going to pop a lot and I'm going to try to shoot over Lopez and that for most of this regular season has been working I think he crushed him in that first matchup that they had

Janus is not really a guy that I feel like we just don't see a lot of Janice on Embed and I'm curious why that is but at this point you know, the Bucks being a team that just, you know, loves to make you shoot mid-range jumpers. When you got M-Bid, who's shooting 49% from mid-range, really mastered that part of his game, really mastered, like, pretty much every part of his game, except for the playmaking.

Although I do, I do enjoy when he, you know, pump fakes and pass fakes and then gets the double team to just kind of go away. It's like a whole bunch of bugs just crawl. Like, it's like when you, when you stomp and you just see all the ads. go back into their cave. Like that's kind of what happens when Joelle Embed does a pass fake. Because at this point he's getting doubled and tripled. And even the idea of him like pretending to pass the corner,

I wish he'd actually pass the corner a little bit more. I think that's going to be key to the Sixth or success. But just these little micro movements that he does just gets everyone moving. Like one of the like one jab step can kind of part C. So that is that is probably the biggest reason that I'm starting to believe in them. Like I genuinely feel like Embed is getting to the. getting to a place now where he is just an impossible matchup for even the best defenders in the league. Just a lot to unpack here, including the PTSD that you triggered from my childhood of stomping on ants and them not dying,

just falling into the cracks of my sneakers, into the cracks of the sidewalk, just brutal stuff. That was PTSD for you, not the ants, right? No, the ants survived. They thrived, actually. So wonderful memories for them. I think so. Thanks. I appreciate that.

It's really interesting, though, what you said about Embed trying to manipulate defenders, manipulate double teams. He does that a little bit. I mean, I want to start by just saying, obviously, having the best year of his career, he's one of the top two. You called him the favorite to win MVP. I don't know if I had necessarily. Kind of changes every week. Who do you have this week? I'm Yokic always forever until the end of time.

But he's certainly a candidate. He could win easily. Having the best year of his career, most efficient year of his career, what, 33 points, absurd true shooting, probably the most dominant player offensively. Janus included, there's really nothing you can do with Embed gets to the free throw line. He's got the jumper. Hardin has been amazing this season, setting him up for those wide open elbow jumpers, those 12 footers that just can't do anything with that.

It's like a coin flip whether or not it's going to go in. And then he's automatic at the rim. And when he ducks in on those set plays that they have that they've been calling more often, it's just it's two points or you have to foul him. So he's amazing. The defense has been okay, not great, especially last night against the Pacers when he just wasn't playing any of it. So that's fine, whatever.

You just has these stretches in every season And I don't know if it's a health thing If it's a self-preservation thing Then by all means, Joelle, do your thing But there's stretches in every single season Where Joelle Embed, who is sensibly like I think one of the When he's trying, one of the single best rim protectors

In the NBA who can also guard most matchups Out on the perimeter You don't necessarily want to isolate Steph Curry on him By any means. But for the most part, I'm not too worried when Joelle Embed is trying and engaged and locked in But he's like he's also got these points where it's like just don't put him on a stretch five He's not going to go out and guard him he's gonna hang out in the rim you know and that's that's that's what was happening against a bucks and it was very much happening against the Pacers too

He got dropped by buddy healed on a crossover and I was like is it because you're just not interested tonight? Joelle like it was it was good stuff but uh but one of the more interesting things with him offensively, I'll say, like, you brought up the decision making, you said you'd like to see him kick it to the corner more often. I think his unwillingness to pass over double teams and sometimes triple teams where he'll shoot over the top, like, I don't think that's the elephant in the room, but I think his decision making is far from infallible. Like he just looks off open teammates all the time for like contested long twos. And a lot of the time that shot goes in or he draws a foul or something good happens regardless. But I just think that like is his usage too high for like success in the playoffs?

Like is that something that we should be talking about with the talent that they have on their roster? There's other superstars around the NBA who do not. I mean, I think he's second in usage right now. And I feel like he doesn't need. to have that high of a usage. And I just wonder if they need to play, you know, going back to the stylistic question that you brought up at the beginning, a little bit more of an egalitarian offense, a little bit more of Tyrese Maxi getting involved. Hardin's usage is like, I don't even know, it's like 25 or something. It was below Tyrese Maxis a couple weeks ago when I wrote this

article about Hardin, which just like floored me. And Hardin's playing great. Great. Maxie's scored over 20 points in five straight games, which is the longest streak of his career. And it's kind of silly for me to sit here and be like, take the ball out of Joel's hands. But if Joel is going to force shots that are bad in a playoff series, I don't know if that, especially like the way they play where they just take a lot of shots late in the shot clock that are not great and do not go in. and they do not offensive rebound and they do not get back in transition. Sometimes they don't even defensive rebound.

No. It's a key part of the game. So I feel like this is just something that is worth interrogating for a team that is super talented, I think has almost every ingredient, maybe every ingredient if Jalen McDaniels is for real

to win an NBA championship. And maybe just things need to shift beyond Doc Rivers rotation, which is another thing that everyone loves to talk about and how he doesn't. Yes, we will talk about that. But what are your thoughts about that? Am I crazy for even bringing this up? No, I think that's a great point.

You know, usage rate is something that, like, so Joel is actually third in usage in the NBA right now, just behind Janus and Luca. And Janice, I imagine, you know, just a lot of it is just health with the bucks, right? Yeah. And with Joelle, and also, by the way, I just did a quick check. James Hardin, and this has some noise because I didn't put in the filter stats, but James Hardin is 67th in the NBA in usage. It's wild. That is just not something I ever saw happening in my career.

And I definitely want to talk about your article at some point, too, because that was great. Yeah, you know, it's been a while. Yeah, it's just, it's. I think you're playing Dock Rivers music here when you say that you want to see a little bit more ball movement from Joelle and Bid. I think there are times, even with Al Hardin is playing, I want to see more of it from Hardin. That game last night against the Pacers, I felt like in the fourth quarter, the Sixers just leaned on all of their bad habits. It was just a lot of Joelle not playing defense, nobody running back in transition. It's like a half-court layup line for the Pacers, and you've got Hardin, basically.

dribbling the ball at the top of the key, taking step-back jumpers. And this isn't a game where Tyrese maxi started too. And that's also, like at the same time, we got to give him credit. Like the first half of that game was like, I think I think Hardin just picked up like a cool 19 assists from getting off the ball quickly and making quick decisions. But that just doesn't happen all the time. That's kind of the story with this team. I feel like pretty much since this beginning of the season. they are aware that they need to play differently than they do.

And I think James Harden especially has been aware that the play style that he did in the past with the Rockets where he's just stumping the ball and just making every possible decision is not going to win him a championship. It's also not something that is sustainable for him at this point in his career. With Joelle, it just feels like he hasn't totally internalized that idea yet. there are times when it still feels like he's gunning for the MVP award. And I think that also gets into why we don't see as much defensive intensity from him at times too. It's just that he is trying to be the do it all guy on offense and doing it all himself. So you're just going to have, you know, you're just not going to play on both ends, especially if you're Embed who has the injury history as well.

So, you know, I really like the fact that he took some time off. around All-Star. I think that was smart. I think it's something that he's kind of hesitated to do since he's been trying to push himself to be a guy who's not seen as injury prone. But at the same time, it's like,

let's just live a little bit within your limitations. And you'll be able to do things for this team that are actually necessarily, like protect the rim. I was kind of digging into their defensive numbers. And I was trying to figure out where exactly it's so bad outside of transition. We know transition defense is a huge problem.

their bottom three in transition defense. And it's something they've tried to emphasize all year, but it's just not. That's a problem that's not necessarily going. They're also bottom seven in opponent points in the paint. And that's just something where if you're Joelle and B, you cannot be okay with that. You know, you just have to do a little bit better.

So I think balance is something that's very much in order for this team. At their best, we see it. And at their best, those are the moments that I started to believe in the Sixers. I think Maxie coming off the bench works for them. Melton is just a much better perimeter defender. And it's really hard when you've got Maxie Hardin and Joelle out there. And on a night when Hardin and Joelle are disengaged, it can be really, really ugly for their defense.

But when they're engaged and when you have some balance, and I also, I love the McDaniels pickup for this reason too. It's like an actual switchable wing for them outside of PJ Tucker. those are the moments where you start to see it look good, but it still feels like this team has another gear and they have more tinkering to do. Yeah, really good point about the rim protection and the paint protection.

Their fifth worst in opposing field goal percentage at the rim this year, which is a really surprising stat. And I know Joelle and B doesn't play every game, but you do see him just be conscious of picking up early fouls where he's just like, all right, the OLA defense is out in full force in certain matchups. And it's understandable, like, especially in a game where PJ Tucker isn't playing. It's like, what are we going to do if Joelle gets in foul trouble?

The answer is we're going to lose the basketball game. So I get it from that perspective. Offensively, like, the Maxie Hardin Embeded-M-Bed trio and whether or not Maxi should come off the bench, I think, is just, this really, really fascinating question because I totally agree with you that in the playoffs, in particular matchups, be it Cleveland,

be it the Celtics, even potentially the Raptors, if they play the Raptors in the playoffs. Raptors look great, by the way. Defensively, that's just Hardin and Maxi not what you want on the court at the same time. Melton is

very frisky, gets in passing lanes, ton of deflections, ability to play a little bit faster, which they need to do, I think. But Maxie's just, like, quietly been amazing

and you want to play your best players, right? Like, when Maxie and Hardin are on the floor, like, their offense is just, it's scintillating. And they're second right now

in the whole league in three-point percentage. Maxi is very good. not only in giving them that extra gear in the open floor, but also a pretty good ISO player, also a pretty good tertiary or secondary playmaker. And he's got the step back down. Like he just, he's one of the better outside shooters

in terms of creating space, getting the shot off and having it be a good look in the entire league. So they're really difficult to guard. And that's where I get back to just like, if they can figure it out with regards, to ball movement if they can figure it out with regards to playing the right, having the right pieces around those three where if like Jalen pops defensively and you can play in big minutes, that's amazing.

If PJ Tucker can stay healthy and play really great pounding whoever the best players and the other team 94 feet for an entire game. Like if you can do that, that's wonderful. Just a lot of like questions and ifs for me. and I don't know if that's I feel like some of the other teams that they will play when they have to beat to get where they want to go those teams have kind of

they already know themselves and they already know the answers to these types of questions so that's why I just am a little dubious of Philly but like the more I watch them like the talent is really there and again I just go back to Hardin I think Hardin has been like amazing yeah there's enough

there's enough time left in the season I think for them to iron out some of those wrinkles the question of whether they will, I don't know. But to your point, you know, the starting lineup with maxi in it has the best net rating of the lineups that they mostly play. It's 14.6. Their offense is absolutely scintillating. But I kind of want to get back to the Hardin question here. Because the Harding question to me is essentially can Ambide take less of a load question?

And you wrote a great article where you basically, I love the way you kind of framed it. where Hardin is adapting and adjusting, and he's playing incredible basketball. He's had a great season. You mentioned that he should have been an All-Star. When he was, you know, he's actually somebody I completely omitted for my All-Star picks. Same.

And he wrote that. I was like, oh, damn. No, he's absolutely right. But I love the way you framed it in that this is a positive change for Hardin, but at the same time, you have to have this question of his lack of usage and the role that he's playing ideal for the Sixers right now because that's what they need,

or is it just because Hardin has dropped off to the point that this is now what he has to be? Yeah. Like, I didn't see him ever having the type of game that he did on Saturday against the bucks, like, ever again. Like, that's the type of game, 38, 10, 9, efficient. got to the line, 11 free throws. Like, that was just vintage hardin.

And Bede was on the court. You're going up against the best defense. One of the best defenses in basketball. Like, did not ever see that happening again. That makes me more bullish on, okay, like, there is a higher gear here. I don't know if he can capture it for three weeks, four weeks. If he does, then this team is basically going to be, like, I'm picking them. But I don't think he can do that.

So, like, throughout this regular, like, it's clear to me that he's just lost a physical step. He's not the exact same player that he was when he was actually winning MVP and actually winning scoring titles in Houston. But, like, the genius, like, he's just maybe the smart. There's a lot of really smart playmakers in the NBA, so I don't know who the smartest one is. But, like, Hardin's name deserves to be up there, leads a league and assists. The way he, you said it earlier, the way he gets. off the ball. He had this one of his 20 assists last night against the Pacers where like help defenders at the nail. He just throws it to Shake Milton. Shake Milton gets a wide

open three. Like very simple stuff. He doesn't try to force things. Trust his teammates. I think the kick-aheads have been amazing and very necessary for this team because again, they play so slow. And he just trusts everyone around him. And like there's drive-in kicks. There's when he runs the pick and roll with Embed, which is really, really efficient, again, dribble handoffs with Embed when he gets downhill, really efficient. Like, he's kicking out to the corners. Those guys are knocking down the shots. He's a huge reason that they're second and three point percentage this year, which is really significant for their offense. And if it carries over into the playoffs and they keep hitting threes, they're going to be really difficult to beat.

But yeah, like, he's just this really fascinating question for me, because, is like I could be wrong. It's just what I think. Like I don't think he can do it. But it's not impossible. Like he's really good, super talented. If he stays healthy, like, who knows? So I, he's just someone I got to keep my eye on and everyone should be keeping their eyes on, I think. And narrative is such a like fickle thing in our business and just watching the NBA. And the narrative on him is just that he will choke in the second round. Like if it's an elimination game, he will not come through. And like back in the day,

I used to pick the Rockets to win the championship basically every year because I trusted him so much. And I was burned time and time again. But like, if he were to come through an elimination game, I would not be stunned. Like, I would not be shocked. Like, he's just so talented.

So, um, especially because right now he's playing on a team where you can't load up just to stop James Hardin because Joe L&B is going to be playing. 38, 40 minutes in these playoff games. So the looks are going to be better. I don't know. He's just, I could go on and on about James Hardin. I'm just really fascinated and looking forward to seeing him in the playoffs this year.

Coming off this season he had when, yeah, he should have absolutely been an all-star. It's like kind of super disrespectful that he wasn't. This is where I start getting a little bit nervous. Like this is where my guts are. kind of turning inside out on themselves. We're talking about believing in James Hardin and the playoffs, which we all know is a very fraught thing. Believing in James Hardin to the extent that we need to believe in him this season

where Joelle Embed is like the possible MVP and he's got Tyrese Maxie on his side, that may be a different proposition here. If he doesn't have to come through every single game and carry the load that way. He's also, I love what you said about him kind of dribbling to the nail and then, you know, just making a quick pass. I love when he just, like, the Pacers, for example, last night, you know, felt like they just wanted to overload on whatever side of the floor that he was on, which, sure, fine.

Like, I don't, I don't love, I mean, that's just kind of how the Pacers play. I don't love that. They double-teamed him in the back court for, like, two straight plays. I was like, what are you guys doing? Yeah. I mean, I really, it's a different podcast, but Pacers have some questionable defensive strategies, to say the least. But, and he just, he just swings it.

And then another guy swings it. And it's an open corner three to your point. And by the way, if you're at Daryl Morey and, you know, you brought Tucker on board, you brought House on board who is actually, I mean, we'll get into the rotation stuff later. And you've gotten the young on the team. And Joelle Embed is just not pass into the corners. Like, you got to be going a little bit crazy.

Like, that's just like, come on. It just goes against all of his basketball philosophy is like, you know, and also at the same time, you're like, why is he hang on the floor if you're not going to hit him for corner three? Like, that's the one point of having him on the court. And you have to almost give him those three just to make up for his lack of defense. Anyway, that is, that's besides the point here.

The hardened thing is absolutely fascinating. I'm very curious to see what happens in the postseason. And I'm also like this, yeah, this is. a place where I'm just like, it's tough. It's tough. He's becoming more and more efficient with his movement. He's always been very efficient with his movement. And I think that's what you're kind of maybe getting at when you talk about his intelligence as a playmaker.

Because now that, like, he has all of those plays that he's, like, that he's conducted as the number one guy, always holding onto the ball with a little bit more quick decision making. It's like he's kind of like a computer. and the Sixers are kind of like, their starting lineup is kind of like a Bopit. Did you ever play with a Bopit as a kid? I thought you were going to say he's a computer and Doc Rivers is the virus and I was going to stand up and applaud.

But no, this Bopet metaphor also works. I want to see where it's going. And yes, of course, I played it as a child. It's just like there are so many different buttons that you can press and they're all so different. And that's what makes them so promising. because you've got the perfect conductor for it. Hardin's got his own buttons that he can press.

He can go to the stepback. He's now on more to the mid-range. I do worry a little bit that the Sixers will get bogged down into mid-range land a little bit too much, especially in the playoffs. I love the Hardin. Joel pick and roll. You have to.

But at the same time, it is very, very mid-range heavy, especially as Hardin loses a step. But, you know, he can kick to, he can kick to Maxi, who's not an automatic shot. If you kick to Maxi and there's, you know, a rotation coming, he's probably going to drive to the rim. And then we'll see what he finds from there. Juel is every possible move in his bag.

Maybe he'll post up. Maybe he'll face up. Maybe it'll be a pick and roll. And I just love the versatility of their half-court offense. But at the same time, I also start to question it a little bit too because stylistically, they play so differently from the rest of the East and the two teams in the East that really matter

for their purposes and the Bucks and the Celtics. And I just wonder if a team that not only is slow in the sense of the pace that they play at, but also just slow in all of their movements can hang in an Eastern Conference that is you know, I don't like, how do you even describe

what the Celtics and the Bucks do in comparison to the Sixers are completely different. Yeah, I just think that there's just like more two-way versus with both Milwaukee and Boston. They can do whatever they want on defense. They can throw out all these different types of lineups. They can drop.

They can have Rob Williams, just guard the, you can hide Rob Williams on a non-shooter and just have him be this ridiculous help side defender. Same thing with Janus. You can go small with our guy Grant at the five, even though Boston's kind of gone away from that look, but you can do it in the playoffs.

offensively, you know, they share the ball a little bit better and differently than Philadelphia does, particularly Boston, just like drive and kick, driving kick, drive and kick. But like, Philly has its bread and butter, and it's just kind of churning through the regular season with it. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like, they need to win games to keep pace, keep the third seed at least. maybe they'll get the two-seat Boston's in this weird tailspin right now. That's, you know, having home court in a potential second round series against the Celtics, I think would be like kind of critical if they ever want to beat that team. And then you just look at like the efficiency numbers where, yeah, like, iso ball is bad,

post-ups are bad. But when you just look at like the play types, like they're isolations. possessions or like the fifth most efficient action in the whole league in any type of play type, which is absurd. Their post-ups, they're the most efficient post-up team. Sorry, number one is the Denver Nuggets with a guy named Nicola Yokic over there. Incredible with D.HOs. They're just, they know who they are, but that goes against you in the playoffs when,

okay, like, when you take away plan A, was what the playoffs are all about, right? Like, okay, we're going to take away plan A. What's your plan B? And that's where Philly is just like, buy game four, buy game five. They don't have any a thing to go to. They don't have an audible. And the audible is going to be, okay, Hardin, five step back threes tonight.

You got that in you? That's what it's going to be. And I just don't know if he can do that. So it's going to be really fascinating to see that's part of the reason why. he's just so critical to this whole playoff apparatus right now. Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. I think, like, you hit the nail on the head. The Celtics and the books are just, they're deeper and they're better problem solvers.

They can beat you in a number of different ways. And, you look at the, like, you know, they lost the game against the Celtics last night, right? But you look at it and you're like, okay, there's no, there's no Jason Tatum, there's no Al Horford. So obviously they're going to get killed on the boards. But they have enough depth where a guy like Malcolm Brogden, he steps up. and the defense can still be bone crushing without those guys. And, you know, Grant Williams was having a good game. But they just look like a well-oiled machine.

You know, they can handle guys being out. They know what to do. They know each other. That's a credit to continuity, too, whereas this Sixers seem pretty much since Joel and Beade's tenure has been thrown together. The NBA season is heating up and now is the perfect time to download FanDuel, America's number one sportsbook.

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1-800-next-step to 5334-2 in Arizona, 1-8-789-7-7-7 or visit ccc pc p.c p.mptainbleing help.com in Connecticut. 1-800-9-9 with it in Indiana. 1-800-2-2-470 or visit KS gambling help.com in Kansas. stop in Louisiana, visit www.mdgambling help.org in Maryland, 1-800-32750-50, or visit www.m.mahelpline.org slash problem gabbling, 1-8-Hop-N-Y or text Hope N.Y 467-369 in New York, 1-800-522-470-0 in Wyoming, or visit www.1-800-gambler.net in West Virginia. I want to talk about their depths next, but before we get into this, I would like to know which 76ers team have you believed in the most, has haunted you the most, has made you the most cynical?

Like, which iteration is it that is now kind of like impacting the way that you see this team in general? What a question. Like the first year that they, it was like the first post process team where everything was clicking. You had Simmons in those last like 15 games of the regular season. where M. B didn't play in Ben Simmons was like the best player in the NBA and they just like rolled through the league. They go up against the Miami Heat in round one, like trample them. They get the Celtics in round two where it's like Jason Tatum is 14 years old. There's no Kyrie, no Gordon Hayward. It's just a very young, inexperienced Celtics team and they lose like badly. And there's the confetti game and all that.

that was so like just crippling I would imagine to a lot of the people who were involved in that series still like that was their chance and I feel like honestly like that's not their best team because their best team in my opinion is the one with Jimmy Butler and maybe that's your answer to this exercise where it's like you have Jimmy Butler total coin flip series like obviously it goes down to Kauai hitting that shot if Kauai does. isn't hit that shot. The Sixers could easily have won the championship that year. Incredible team. But that first run, when Simmons was just, I mean, going back and watching him with, like, Irasana L.A. and Marco Bell in L.A. and, like, all the spacing that that team had. And, I mean, he was just a completely different player,

just a total blur. So physical. so fearless. That team losing in the second round, I was just like, oh, man, that's such a bummer for them. But I was also loving it because I'm a Celtics fan. That's a great pick, Sarage days. Sarage days.

I actually don't have one for the Sixers. I've never, this is the most I've ever believed in them. Wow. And I actually think that my perspective is both going to be more biased because I don't have this history of them proving me wrong quite yet. But I also have to look to other smart basketball people like yourself who have been down this road before. So I got a question a little bit.

But I just, yeah, I don't have the battle scars with this team. That Butler team was definitely the most talented. But the thing, like, I think I would have believed in them. But the way that the schedule shook out that year, they were in Toronto so much. and they also also played them in the playoffs, post-trade, and I think the wolves were there, and it was just such a weird Jimmy year.

And the vibes were not good. You know, like, you go into that locker room, and people were kind of like, hmm, I wonder if Joelle and Bede is going to, like, make Brett Brown's life difficult for no reason and say he's not playing 10 minutes before the game. Like, it was just, things didn't seem that great. Ben and Jimmy just weren't really vibing.

They had that player's only meeting. And then the whole team started, playing a lot more pick and roll basketball with Jimmy Butler being the ball handler and then Simmons is kind of sideline and you're just wondering like is this team going to figure out how to actually play together. This Sixers team at this juncture in March

is a lot farther along at least in terms of figuring that side of it out. I don't think there is playoff bill as that other team was just like when you have a guy like Jimmy and Simmons at that level on defense and Bede with the way that he was playing defense more consistently. It was just a lot more two-way talent. you had Reddick on that team. It was an amazing starting lineup and this

team kind of has elements of that and they actually seem to like each other. That is something that I think is giving me a little bit more faith in them too. I feel like Joelle and Bede and James Harden they enjoy each other's company. I feel like the team is kind of

Maxi has despite his age been able to command respects or not command maybe Garten maybe command respect is too stronger word, but garner respect on a team full of veterans

that play in a very different style and you kind of go down the line. It's like, you know, like, Nienke has a podcast where like, like Melton and Maxi on the play. You know,

it's just like the vibes are, the vibes in Philly seem much better than they've ever been. And that is something that, you know, you cannot take that for granted as any, as any 76ers fan knows.

At the same time, though, I don't think vibes, are going to make this bench any deeper. And like that's probably, that's probably the next thing to, to tack off the list here before we get out of fear. I just kind of, I don't know,

you look at their rotation and I feel like there are six guys that you can have faith in. Like you've got Embed Heardt and Tucker, Mountain Maxie and Tobias Harris, who, uh, we probably haven't talked about enough. I think Harris deserves some flowers for how he's consistently sort of,

I mean, this guy is just, you can give him the flowers. No one, nobody gives a crap. Like, just nobody gives a crap about Tobias Harris. He just keeps showing up. And he's, he's improved his defense. Like, you know, he's just, I feel like that's always the ultimate marker of a team guy.

It's like, we're actually not talking about him. Like, you know, we'll talk about, like, Maxie, we're talking about being a team guy. You know, he's, he has come off the bench. Now he's back in the starting lineup and Doc's giving him, giving him all this credit for it. Harris just quietly continuing to just find his way or not find his way in a rotation that has just never really, never really cared for his presence. So, you know, shout out Tobias Harris. But, I mean, you have to love that they got Jalen McDaniels,

just another guy who can play a little bit of defense or a lot of bit of defense and, you know, can give you a little bit on offense from time. But they just don't have two-way guys, right? Like, Nyang, you look at and you're like, okay, you love his shooting. But, man, I have questions about that guy being just isolated in a playoff matchup. Like, if the Sixers start, like, playing really well, like that, and you start getting into that place of like everything becomes a chess match. Nying is probably one of the first guys off the board or the first guy that you really got to figure out something to do with.

Paul Reed, same sort of deal, right? Rebounding, hustle. You wrote about this in the Harden article. I can like like, like you kind of take that one, but it's just the shooting, you know? Yeah. Like, I think in the playoffs, Paul Reed's minutes are going to be really interesting. anytime Embedit is off the floor, it's kind of like a red light starts flickering.

And I don't know what the answer is beyond, okay, we have to kind of like outscore the opponent here. Like there's a lot of pressure on everyone to make the offense click. And like I anticipate PJ Tucker being the backup five in the playoffs. You know, matchup dependent. we'll see what happens. Like maybe they'll need Paul Reed. And maybe a Harden Paul Reed pick and roll like works and that's fine.

But like when Hardin isolates, which he loves to do when Embed is not in the game. And he's really good at it. You just have to space the court. Like that's just key. That's why he was so effective in Houston. He wasn't like those rosters were impeccably built and like very purposeful with every piece who was on. it. Everyone who is invited to the party could shoot threes. So, like, that's why Paul Reed, I just don't think, is a good fit offensively for the team in the playoffs.

And, like, Jalen McDaniels is going to have to hit open threes. For me, like, Tobias Harris is really interesting because I just, he's always been just kind of pegged as overqualified for his role. And he's, like, extremely overqualified now. he's the fourth option, the fifth option sometimes. I was going to say, that seems friendly. Yeah, and I just wonder, like, what if, you know, you're talking about, like, bringing Maxi off the bench and how he was willing to sacrifice without commotion?

Like, why doesn't Tobias Harris, why hasn't he ever been asked to come off the bench? I just feel like that would make things run a little bit more smoothly where you have, like, Jailer McDaniels, again, has to play better. But, like, either have him play, either have him start or like start maxi and melton like why can't you do that that's very small for sure but like good luck guarding those lineups i feel like that would be really interesting so i don't know

i've always been down on tobias a little bit maybe unfairly um he does do a lot of things really well and he's a matchup nightmare in certain situations but i don't know like they're like they do have the pieces you really i totally agree with what you're saying with george dyang and And you think back to when he was on the jazz, like Quinn Snyder was just like, all right, you're not going to play in this series, like almost immediately every single year.

That's going to happen again. I would think even though he is really important with how he shoots the ball. And if he could like keep the ball in front of him defensively, he would be a really interesting small ball five. And those lineups would be really explosive. But like who is going to pop? Like is it Shake Milton? I don't have any faith.

Shake Milton's had like an okay year for sure. My gosh are just like, like I can't. Like every year like Daniel House is on this team and I, you know, he has like he had some plays in the Pacers game for sure. The playoffs are just different. You know what you mean?

Like it's just I don't know who Dr. Rivers is going to trust. It's not Daniel House. Like he's out of the rotation. He only played because here. and Tuckero last night. Right, exactly. So, like, I think they know the players that they want to play. It's just a matter of when are they going to play and who are they going to play with. And this team has had a lot of success with Hardin and Embed on the floor at the same time. And that's why Doc is so unwilling and hesitant to stagger them. But, like I just think you kind of have to. And they've had a lot of success recently with Maxi on the court,

like at the start of second quarters by himself. But like, again, in the playoffs, just completely different animal. So I'm really interested to see how Doc kind of plays this. What reads minutes are? Is he going to stagger, Harden and Bede? And then like, what is Maxi's, how can Maxi be maximized?

Sorry, didn't mean. That's the stupidest thing I've ever said. This team going forward. Like, that's just, these are just, I think these are really important questions, and they don't have a lot of time to figure them out. Let the record state that the pun was not intended there. It was not. The Melton Maxie pairing is really interesting to me,

because when I watch them, I love it. I think they play a lot faster. They get going in transition. Melton, as you said earlier, They're just one of the top deflection guys. And then when you got Maxie running alongside him, it's just easy buckets. So this doesn't pass my eye test, but when they do share the floor together, the pairing, their pace is 100. It's like four points up from their regular pace, which is crazy.

But their defensive rating is 150, and their net rating is negative four. They do not make up for it. It's basically what the numbers are telling us. As fun as it is to watch, they do apparently give up as much as a. they give us. The PJ Tucker at the five thing is interesting. I don't know how much he can hold up through a playoff series being the permanent backup five at this age.

It's kind of a moreism thing too where he is just not going to put too many resources backing up the best player. He just doesn't feel like that's a productive thing to do. But at the same time, I feel like they need a little bit more there. Like, Harold is pretty much, he's out of the rotation too. Corkmas is very much not in the rotation. And I don't know, maybe you see some dead men.

Like that could potentially be a thing that you see. That is what I will say about that. It's just tough. I don't know how it's necessarily going to work out or shake out for those guys beyond the top six. It's an issue. And at this point, there's nothing they can really do about it. If anything, if I was dog, I would open up the rotation a little bit more, see who's actually

see who maybe plays a little bit better you know I think House is a guy that after the game he had yesterday you got to give him a chance but just because you got to give somebody a chance at this point right like it's just not sustainable for them to have basically like a seven man rotation in a playoff

in the postseason where now increasingly depth is actually important like teams have figured out how to use their depth and the sixers are just they're just really really top heavy If this was a fantasy team, what I would do, honestly, right now is I would start Jalen McDaniels for PJ Tucker. I would make PJ Tucker my backup five. And I would just spend the rest of this season seeing how that looked.

Because I know when I play my most important games, like, I need PJ Tucker to be my backup five. So why not? You don't do it because like these are human beings. and you don't want to make people upset, and these are creatures of habit and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, when you're playing your most important games, you're going to be doing something different. And everyone can see that.

So just start practicing it now is kind of like what I would do. Again, if this was like a fantasy team, like he can't do that in reality. I understand why. Or maybe he can. I don't know. It would be something to try. Can I ask you a question?

question. Can we like fast forward like to the Sixers, um, not advancing past the second round? Like, what does this? What does this team go from here? Like, what are we even doing? Like, Hardin's obviously got the player option, can opt out. A lot of talk about the Rockets. It's kind of silly to me, but who knows? The NBA is crazy. Um, and then it's just like, Is Embed looking at the New York Knicks right now? I mean, like, that looks like a really cool team. Jalen Brunson's awesome. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, I don't know. Like, it's just, it's, uh, I feel like the short term future for this organization is just like super precarious. And that path is like way more likely than, all right, they persevere and they go to the conference finals or they go to the finals. I think like this blowing up is way more likely than the opposite. I think you're right. I mean, what would it take for Doc Rivers to not lose his job this offseason, right? It would have to be at least making the conference finals.

I don't think a strong second round out gets it. So like that's probably number one. Like Doc has been kind of just hanging on by the skin of his teeth on this team. And if they don't make a real push this season, and to your point, you know, like it can't be another. It can't be another postseason of you see a Sixers lineup out there on the floor that you haven't seen at all in the regular season. I just don't think that that's, you just can't keep doing that. You just can't keep doing that.

I mean, you might, but you just can't. You shouldn't. I don't know. I mean, like the Hardin to Houston stuff, it's weird. I don't know why this keeps popping up because presumably you think, okay, Hardin's with his guy, Mori. It seems like he gets along with M.B. this is his chance. Like this is his shot to win a championship

and to basically rewrite his legacy. If he doesn't do that, does he go back and join a rebuilding team with like, like, I don't know, man. Like, I would be pretty pissed off if I was 34 years old and I was passing a Jalen Green and I never saw the ball again after that, you know? I just don't know how that looks.

But who knows? Like you said, the NBA is crazy. I would imagine a Sixers off season probably looks like Tobias Harris becomes an expiring contract. And maybe you try to splinter him off into a bunch of pieces and improve your depth. Maybe it's, maybe it is James Harden opting into a player option and being shipped somewhere else to replenish your depth or maybe bring in another star. I don't know what that like I don't know what James Harden necessarily command. at this point. Credit to more, he's commanding a lot more than he would have

this last off season. There's a huge bounce back there and he's genuinely, like, he's shown that he's still a star NBA player, so there is that. But yeah, you're definitely retooling after that. I don't know if, like, we're still

yet at the point of Joelle and Bede looking elsewhere. There's, you know, there's, he's locked in until 2026. So. I don't know. I mean, especially if Hardin

if Hardin either leaves or plays poorly or whatever, like, Joel and Bede's just been like openly campaigning for the MVP for the past, I don't know how many years, goes on every podcast, does every interview.

That's like been it for him. And he's not going to win it probably again this year. Like the title is like now, okay, I need to win a championship. This is absolutely critical for me. I need to have team success, especially if I'm ever going to win an MVP. And I don't know what you're going to trade Hardin for

that's going to get you back this elite playmaker who sets up Joelle Embed and keeps Joelle Embed happy. Like, I don't think that trade is out there. So, yeah, I think Embed would 100% be looking around at a lot of different situations. And I don't know, like, I haven't really thought sat here and, like, created any hypotheticals beyond the NICS, which is just like the most obvious one for a variety of reasons.

But, yeah, I think this could implode. You're talking me into it. The thing is like, well, the thing is just like, if you do lose, let's say you lose to the Celtics, right? Let's say you get home court. You get the two seed, lose the Celtics. It's like the Celtics are like still, their stars are like in their prime. And like they have such continuity.

Like there's no reason why the Celtics would fall off at all. If anything, they just keep getting better and better. So how are you going to beat them next year? Like you have like a mid-level signing is just not going to do it. So like I don't, I just don't know what you do. As like this feels like the last stand in a lot of ways for this team. The Knicks are such a tantalizing option. especially lately.

I feel like their biggest W from like this season turnaround has been the fact that they have now finally like this has been the plan since Leon Rose took over, built themselves into a team

that a superstar would look at and say, hey, New York Knicks. Pretty competent. Okay, we have a little bit more consistency here. We have Jalen Brunson as a great second star. Also bringing in M.B.

is like Mbid is probably one of the few potentially unhappy superstars that you could bring in and it wouldn't undercut the role that they gave Brunson and the idea that they brought him on telling him that okay you're going to be the number one guy here so that there's that they've lost out on kind of all the other all the other stars just haven't been the stars that they've been connected to just haven't been unhappy

you know like Booker was not unhappy at the right moment Zion got happy. You know, Carl Towns was not unhappy at the right moment. And all the other CAA guys are just not necessarily good enough. Embed, agentless,

still, that's a very interesting thing about Embed. Joel M. B. has not had an agent for like a really, really long time. He was with CAA. Now, I don't know the circumstances of his leaving. Is it like he left in a way that,

you know, he really didn't want to be a part of CAA? Who knows? Or is it like some of the, some of that still, was there. Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. That could be, that could be really interesting. That could be really interesting because the Knicks, the Knicks have a lot of young players. They have a lot of draft picks. They have a lot of expiring contracts. They're really well positioned. Yes, they are. Got

all their own picks. Like, Mori would make that trade and then immediately say, all right, I'm going to go spend some time with my family and then he would become like the GM of the Miami Heat in two weeks. like that's just what would happen but I just think like a good move by Morrie. It's incredible. But yeah, I just think that this could really fall apart. I hate to be doom and gloom after like talking so positively about Hardin and Maxie

and Embed for like an hour. But that question, I just think it's one of those like next big like they wouldn't be as dysfunctional as the Nets, but the Nets changed the whole. course of NBA history this year. And I think that the Sixers could be the next team to do that

with their own futility I guess is the way I put it. Yeah, I think that's very much possible. We're going to have to have you back at some point in the second round or the third round or the finals or maybe even the first round. You know, no one ever knows with this Philly team and then maybe we could

maybe we could predict the next the next Darry team. I look forward to that. I need to power. We should have a power ranking. we should power rank all the possible destinations for Mori. What if he goes back to Houston with James Hardin? Oh, that would be very, if they got Victor Weniamah and James Harden, Darry, what a summer for Houston.

That would be incredible stuff. Yeah. That would be amazing. I'm rooting for that now. Yeah. I kind of like that. I kind of like that. Well, Michael, thanks so much for hopping on.

You have, I mean, is there anything upcoming that you can plug? Because you're kind of perpetually on the. site. You had a great column on Monday about the nine things that we should look for over the stretch run. Everybody go read his hardened column too. We got into it a little bit, but it's just got so much detail that we weren't really that we didn't get into all of it. Anything else that we can plug for you? Right now I'm working on a story. I don't want to step on, but it is my most favorite thing that I've written in a very, very, very long time. So it should be out sometime this month in March.

So I'm excited for that to come out. I'm kind of in the bunker working on it. I pop my head up from the bunker for this podcast because you're such a wonderful person and this was so much fun. But yeah, so that's basically, seriously, good. Well, I look forward to asking you about this privately. And next week, we will, we will probably have Kyle back if he's, if, if he has proved to us, to us all, to me, to our producer, Chris Sutton. To you, I think, I think Michael,

you're a great judge of these situations as well. If Kyle can prove that he is ready to, you know, start a new leaf, then we'll see him next week. No, we will actually definitely see Kyle back next week. And yeah, thank you. Thank you for rob and on, Mike. Thank you for listening. Thanks, Chris for producing. We will talk to you all next week.