The Ringer NBA Show - Spain Wins the FIBA World Cup. Plus: NBA Islands! | The Mismatch

Episode Date: September 17, 2019

The guys discuss Spain’s victory over Argentina in the 2019 FIBA World Cup finals (0:45) before comparing their respective lists of “island” players (12:00). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up, guys, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to The Ringer Podcast Network. We hope you enjoyed listening to Break Stuff, The Story of Woodstock 99 on Luminary. Now continuing with our 99 theme, I wanted to let you guys know we've got all new episodes of the rewatchables 1999 starting back up right now. Since we've returned, we have rewatched eyes wide shut and election, and up next is never been kissed and many more 1999 classics. So make sure to check out the Rewatchables 1999 on Luminary. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin O'Connor, AKA Kevin O'Connor, AKA Kevin O'Conceled, AKA Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland, Kevin O'Brien, what's going on this morning?

How are you doing? Yeah, you get the croissant for your French love. Congratulations to Spain for winning the world. World Cup. Congratulations to Markis off for having a hell of a four, five months span winning a NBA title and then winning a World Cup championship.

And they really handled an Argentina team that boy, people busted me up for pronouncing Argentina last week. Ooh! I mean, to be fair, to be fair, your pronunciation

was pretty bad, yeah. It was because I keep saying Argentinians. Like when I'm talking about the players, and so then when I was talking about the country, it just stuck. But who cares? Here's the thing. That Argentina team was very, very good. And they counted on Luis Scola throughout that tournament.

And then by the time they got to the championship game, Spain was just too much. And especially without an A plus Scola in the game. And so I congratulate Spain. There's a very good tournament. And I think one of the things I was left with is the United States will inevitably have a much better roster the next time they go because they will now feel pressure to sign up and go and prove the United States worth. I also think the roster construction will get a real look because at the end of that deal, some of the best teams there, they all had big guys. is a different game. And you had Marcus all playing a pivotal role

and Rudy Gobert playing a pivotal role and Nicolioch playing a pivotal role and Luis Scola playing a pivotal role. And it is, that is one of the things that is much, much different than a perimeter based for the most part NBA. And there were no power forwards on that

United States team and the centers were like Plumley and Miles Turner and they didn't have big guys on that team. And then when you looked at the end, the teams that were very good, they were flushed with big guys and some of the best in the entire world. For sure. I mean, I think with the team USA roster, I'm not, look, I'm not overly worried about anything with that team. Like, they're going to have

their superstar players back and all is going to be fine. And I think the next generation of talent that we see up and coming throughout the system is going to grow into their primes as well. Like, Team USA is going to be fine. This is just another blip. But with the Spanish team, they have a lot of those veteran players who have your early experience prior to coming to the NBA and still know how to play that style, as you said, with Marcus Sol, Ricky Rubio, who won MVP, someone like Rudy Fernandez, for that matter, Juan Cho Hernan Gomez, who doesn't even really play in the NBA, but is good enough to, he's just stuck behind a loaded roster with Denver. Spain had a lot of talent on it, which we saw, obviously, in that World Cup final, the 95-75

win. and Rubio win in MVP was interesting to me, Chris, because earlier the summer when you and I were talking about him going to Phoenix, I didn't like the signing initially. And I'm still not super high on it because I just don't love the fit necessarily next to Booker with him off the ball. But I do think Rubio is going to be really, really good for at least showing us what Booker can do off the ball. And I think he's going to be really good for DeAndre Aiton and during his second season as well.

So the World Cup was just sort of a reminder or a fresher in my mind of what he could do for some of the other young players on the bright future sons. Well, and one of the things that you think about regarding that Spain team is when you mentioned those three names, those guys have been playing together since they're like 12 years old. Seriously. Yes. Chemistry. Mark Gassal, Ricky Rubio, Rudy Fernandez. I mean, you're talking 15 years of experience playing together.

They know how to play. play as a unit. Then you can just kind of fill in the gaps around. And they have had some of the older players move on like Powell Gasol, like Juan Carlos Navarro, but they still have guys that have a lot of experience and a lot of chemistry. And you have a United States team that was thrown together,

you know, and expected to come together as a team rather quickly. It was a pickup team, dude. Like, it was literally a pickup team and the roster construction was not great. As you said, like quote unquote four on that team. Yep. And so hopefully for the United States sake,

it will get better as the years go on. It will inevitably be an agent for change. But congratulations to Spain. Now, one of the things that came out of this was while you were sleeping in Los Angeles, California, I was up one morning watching France knock off the United States. And I tweeted out. I don't want to hear one word about Frank Nilakina. I don't want to hear a word.

But then upon your wake from your slumber, you decide that you're... After working out, after working out, I woke up, worked out, and then tweeted at you. And then wanted to rub my face in what was Frank Nilakina's shining moment in the World Cup as he was part of the team. knocked off the United States, they eventually fell to Argentina. But Frankie Smokes, who I had mocked, did have a moment for sure in the United States game. And then in the next game, you know, much like everything New York, it got massively overrated because he had some points in the game. But if anybody watched that game, what David Fisdale needs to count on is that NBA teams, they were treating what's his name fornier like he was Jordan like they were not even going to let him catch the ball and they were

obviously hedging on go bear they were going to let the other guys do whatever they wanted and so fizzdale's got a hope that much like argentina the rest of the NBA runs away from frank nilakina when he gets the ball as if he is a poison snake and that he can knock down 11 foot shots if that is the case then he will have the offensive success that people desire but i will give you your time even though I resent you greatly. You didn't watch a damn second of the game. And yet you wanted to talk about how anybody that scouted Frank Dillikina knows that he is developing into. Oh, shut up.

Give me a break. And I don't watch the game alive, but I did go back and see the game. No, you didn't. No, I support. Did you see yesterday Mike Schmitz from Draft Express tweeting out his support for Frank Nillikina as well. And then someone tagged us both saying, Kevin, how much? How much did you pay Mike to tweet this as a shot at Chris Vernon? Well, tell him.

It was $75. Tell him. Yeah, me and Mike haggled over that for a while. He wanted 100. I was only willing to be 50. We ended up meeting in the middle. I mean, it was fair. It was fair negotiating with Mike.

He's a good guy. And it was a great tweet, great video we put together. And by the way, another facet to that story, Kevin edited the video and sent it to him and sent him the text of the tweet to send. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yes, I did edit the video. That is true.

I confess to that. It's a great tweet. I'm going to retweet it right now as we are recording the podcast. I just retweeted it as we speak. Great tweet from Mike Schmidt's DX slash ESPN. Nillikino was really good, man, though. Like, in all seriousness, I know we joke, but it's at least a little bit encouraging that Nillikina was making some shots that over the last two seasons and prior to the NBA, that he did not.

He looked like Mike said in his tweet that I wrote for him. He looked a little bit more creative around the rim. He was hitting some shots off the bounce. And as we've discussed, Chris, Nillikina has a foundation in his game and that's defense. And it's about building from here. And I think if you're a Knicks fan, I had heard this summer that the Nix were willing to accept two second round draft picks for Nilkeena in a trade. which they did not receive. If I'm another team, I'd beat after this World Cup thinking to myself,

huh, maybe we should try to go for that if New York is still willing and able to make a trade like that. Because I think Nilakina has a future in the league. Even if it's just as a high-end role player, there's a future for him. Well, I'm glad you brought that up because one of the things that you tweeted out was, join me on Nilakina Island. And so, with that being said, there are players that have been either forgotten, dismissed or given up on. And I did not, by the way, and will not be joining you on that island.

And I may live to regret that, but I'm not joining you. Feels good here, Chris. It feels great. You know who visited just last week? Tony Allen visited an offensively limited player whose grinds on defense. He visited. We had a good time together. Oh, listen, if one more person brings up Frank Milliken and Tony Allen in the same

sentence, I am going to throw up. Tony Allen hasn't shot 30-something percent from the first. field since he was six years old. Give me a break. Played 14 years in the league and shot 48% from the field. Offensively limited. That's not even fair.

And also, like, I'll also say this in support of Tony Allen. Before he tore his ACL in the 06-07 season, that was the year the Celtics lost, like, 40 games in a row. Tony Allen was ascending upward as an overall offensive player. And that injury, I think, not set him back necessarily. he still became an elite defender,

but I do think that there was more of an upward trajectory for him on offense that he was partially unable to reach. Maybe. I think his development was a little bit stunted after that on the offensive end. Of course, his defense is all world, and Nilakina is not all world.

I did this with Dremont during the draft where people say, oh, he's kind of like Dremont. Like, no, he's not. He's not like Dremont, right? Like, whoever you may be talking about. You know, sometimes with these guys that are amazing defenders, we hastily make comparisons

that we would not make to the great offensive players. You know what I'm saying? Like nobody sits around and says, oh, he could be like Hardin. Like, no, we can't. Like, stop. Well, I mean, there were a lot of

R.J. Barrett could be the next James Harder comparisons, which were just silly to me. Those are silly. Prior to the draft, I like R.J. Barrett, but that's a bit of a reach, and they're totally different anyway. But that's beside the point. You were saying about islands.

Yeah, back on the subject of islands. Islands. Yes. So guys that we are the sole occupant, or at least there are not many people that are inhabiting said islands. So this week we are going to do islands that we are on for certain players. Now, we did not flush this out completely in the sense that I said, come up with five, I'll come up with five. I did say they don't have to be as crappy as Frank, but I don't know if you took people that have had. poor seasons or did you there were some guys that i thought were too good and so i crossed them off

my list like nobody may really care about them there ain't people running around with their jerseys but they're probably too good like for instance like a t j warren who these average like 19 points a game i mean he scored a bunch of points for a team that loses every single night and i think it's a great signing for the indiana pacers but he's too good like that i don't think that anybody Yeah. So I'm saying, like it's somewhere between T.J. Warren and then somebody who's done nothing and try to find that middle ground of somebody that has been in the league, maybe for a couple of years, that people have either discarded, you know, maybe they haven't even gotten a second contract with the team that drafted them, but we still believe in. And let me just go ahead and say this right off the bat. The exercise in this, we are coming. with the standpoint of, look, that's why it's an island. The easy thing for everybody to do will be like, oh, that guy stinks. Like, yeah, that's why there's an island, right?

Because there's at least a group of people that think the guy is not going to live up to his draft stock or he's just another guy or whatever it may be. So anyways, without further ado, our islands, do you want to start first or you want me to? You start first. I like to hear yours first to see how you're attacking this. Okay. Jordan Bell. Jordan Bell got drafted by the Golden State Warriors. Jordan Bell has averaged less than 12 minutes per game, though he has gotten starts in big playoff games and even a finals game. He has shot 52% from the field so far.

He does not shoot threes. He has been not good from the free throw line so far in his season. And in his 12 minutes or a little less than 12 minutes a game, he's averaged three points and three reasons. bounds. He was a casualty of the DeAngelo Russell signing, where they ended up, they had extended a qualifying offer, but then he ended up moving on elsewhere. And I believe he signed a one-year, $1.6 million deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves. I was a big believer in Jordan Bell coming out of the draft. He has been on a very good team. He obviously has a championship ring when he was playing for Golden State.

I think he's a really good fit next to towns to do all the kind of dirty work in Minnesota. And I was a big believer that he's a winning player with a high motor who will have much better moments than maybe he has had so far. And so he's a second round pick. He was a 38th pick. He is no longer on the team that drafted him. He signed a very, very, very meager contract, but I am still in. I am on Jordan Bell Island. The one thing I'm concerned about with him is when you think about how teams are changing right now,

I think a lot of teams are going to be contenders are bigger, and Bell has had issues defending some of those bigger guys because he's so long. So maybe the evolution of his game is having to defend a bit more in the wing and on the perimeter. And if that's the case, if he can be like a weak side shot blocker, a guy who flies in and alter shots, maybe that can be his role on the defensive end of the floor. Like you said, playing alongside somebody like Carl Towns who would defend some of those bigger guys.

I'm not giving up on him either. I'm with you, Chris. I just think if you give him like real minutes, he's going to put up double doubles. That's what I think. I mean, he's a hell of an athlete and he attacks the rim. He doesn't do what he's not good at. You know, so people could say, oh, well, he can't shoot.

Well, like he doesn't. So I always like guys like guys like this, right? I like guys that you throw it, you throw it to him at the three point line. If you can't make the shot, don't take it. He kind of does what he does. But again,

with the team that spent a lot of money on great players, he's a casualty, I thought a really good pickup for Minnesota. Anyway, I'm still in on Jordan Bell. That's my first island. Jordan Bell Island.

What do you got? Well, so I'll say this. I picked one guy from each of the last five draft classes besides 2019. So I picked one guy in 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18. and 18. And since you pick Jordan Bell, I'll start off in the 2017 class. And it's not Frank Delakina. We've already discussed him. I'm going to go with Terrence Ferguson, the 21st pick to the Oklahoma City Thunder. I wouldn't necessarily say people have given up on him, but I do think a lot of

people have departed the island after he hasn't done a lot on the offensive end of the floor through his first two seasons. Just last season, they're playing 74 games. He only averaged 6.9 points. So people might look at that and be like, ah, forget about Ferguson. You know, he hasn't really skyrocketed yet. But I do think Ferguson last year in the defensive end, after Andre Robertson got hurt,

Ferguson really stepped up on that end of the floor. He's still lean, he's still skinny, but I thought he defended above his size and did a good job covering for Robertson not being out there. And in the offensive end of the floor, he shot a little bit better. And that was a concern for him entering the drive. his shooting consistency, could he shoot as well as sometimes his form actually looked.

I think with Ferguson, he can. I think he can grow into that. He's a solid free throw shooter. He's a great athlete. And from everything I've heard is that he works hard as well. And that is really showing in the defensive end of the floor. So Terrence Ferguson, to me, if you're looking at this young Oklahoma City roster now and what they can build moving forward, Ferguson to me is a big part of that in either one or two ways.

He's either the guy they use as part of a big trade package to get somebody else at some point, or he ends up being a keeper, and he's that next 3-and-D-style wing on that team. So Terrence Ferguson is my first one. You are not going to believe this. He is on my master list before I whittled it down. Wow. I had him. Interesting.

And you know why? You know why I've been in on him? This is a crazy story. So. I love your crazy stories, Chris. Yeah. I'm ready. Well, it's not that crazy.

So, calm down. Before last year, I was getting ready for that draft and writing my draft article for The Ringer. And what I would do is I would go through and I would watch a bunch of interviews with kids and I would watch a bunch of stuff like videos on YouTube and not just like the highlight videos. Like stuff I could find of AAU games or World Championship games or whatever it may be that these kids all played in. And I'm talking about I would watch DeAndre Aiton versus Wendell Carter. And then I would watch Marvin Bagley versus whoever it may be, right? And I was going through and I would spend like a Saturday and I would just watch these videos over and over again. And there was one that popped up.

And it was a Team USA event. And I'm watching this video and I said, who in the hell is that guy? Who is that? And it was Terrence Ferguson. he had like set the record for most threes and i'm watching this video and i'm thinking like is he in this draft and i go back and look and he had been drafted the year before like he was one of those guys that just kind of nobody really knew we didn't see him in college um we didn't see him in college and so then he becomes like one of these guys that and he didn't play a ton of minutes

that first year in oklahoma city and so he was just off the radar for me until I watched those videos getting ready for last year's draft. And I will tell you, you will find some stuff. He was, I mean, he was an elite level high school player, top 20 in his class. And he was awesome. And I remember thinking, and so I've gone out of my way to pay attention to what he was doing in Oklahoma City. And I am a, many times, you know, the kids that are that great, especially amongst their peers at that age, it's a pretty good bet that they're going to turn out to be something.

It's not without fail, but it's a pretty good bet. And he was elite level player. So I'm with you. I am with you. And he's only played a couple years in the league. Chris Paul gets him great shots, then he could really blow up. Seriously.

Because that kid can shoot the hell out of the ball. So I'm with it. I told you it wasn't that crazy. No, that wasn't that crazy at all. I mean a little bit, but, you know, it's a good story. And I think with him, you know, it's interesting. He played that year in Australia and the National Basketball League NBL down there. It's going to be cool this year with R.J. Hampton being there,

Lamello ball following those guys. I do think there will be more eyes on them than we actually had on Ferguson, them being, of course, higher end prospects than Ferguson was. But, you know, he sort of did blaze a trail for young players going to the NBL. All right. My next guy on my list is a guy that is going to be on his third team in his fifth year in the NBA already. And I do not feel like it's because he's not good. He's going to be on his third team through five years.

He has never played more than 19 minutes in a game. And he has not started more than four games since his rookie season. And that is San Antonio. Spur, Trey Liles. Oh, that's a good one. I am a Trey Liles fan. Two years ago in Denver, played in 73 games, played 19 minutes a game, shot 49% from the field, 38% from 3, 71% from the line, average 10 points and 5 rebounds in those 19 minutes a game,

and it was a really good bench player for that team. And then last year it went the wrong way. He averaged less minutes. His shooting percentage went down from 49 to 42. And he was not making threes. Though he shot more threes, he only hit 26% of them. And so he just had a down year last year. And obviously it got a little more flooded with Denver.

The team got better. And that team was really, really good. And so his opportunity fit might have been a smidge of a casualty of that. but I do think that playing for Popovich and playing in that Spurs system is going to be great for him. And he is only 23 years old. And I think he's perfect for this NBA. If you need him to bang and grab rebounds, he can bang and grab rebounds. And if you need him to stretch the floor and knock down shots, he can do that too.

And he's not a terrible passer. I think he's a really good team basketball player. and I think that, you know, you've said two teams already move on for him, but I still think he's really good and his best days are ahead of him. So, Trey Liles Island is next for me. Well, I've got a crazy story for you, Chris. I also had him on my list, but no, I'm not, that's my story. I'm not going to imagine.

With Trey Liles, dude, I think he's one of those players where he was just sort of a victim of circumstance. Two teams where it just didn't work out, but it's not necessarily. early on him. Partially it's opportunity. Like you said, that Denver team got better quickly. But he still, despite lack of consistent opportunity, consistent playing time, or really a lack of

empowerment to take on a greater role, still had some moments out there. And I think for Liles, his freshman era of Kentucky, he showed a lot of the feel for the game that I think can manifest for him long term when he does eventually get that opportunity. And I know San Antonio has liked him for a while.

I believe they liked him in the 2015 draft. So maybe this is the right spot for him. The only problem I will say is that San Antonio also has a very deep roster. So I do question how much playing time and opportunity will he be able to receive there? Because San Antonio is deep in the back court and the front court. So hopefully Liles is able to break through and get opportunity there and finally crack like 20 minutes or 25 minutes per game, which could be what he needs to have that breakthrough season. But I really like Trey Lyle.

and everything you said, Chris, same reason why I had him on my list as well. But I'll pick somebody else. We got to find an island that we are unwilling to inhabit with each other because we're all. I got just the name. Oh. I got just the name. This was my backup for the 2015 draft class. I got Justin Anderson.

Okay. Yeah, you could have it. I got Justin Anderson. He turns 26 in a couple months. He has stunk so far on three teams in the NBA, Dallas, Philadelphia, and Atlanta. His shot has not improved. He's still shooting only 30% from three, which was the main problem for him out of Virginia, where it looked like he fixed his shot, but it may have just been one hot shooting season.

But with Justin Anderson, I do think he's the type of guy where if he spends a couple years overseas, maybe he is able to iron out a shot and become that 3-and-D style role player where he can grind on defense, he can work hard, he can play hard on that end, but it's the offense that needs to really come forward in his development in order to actually make an impact. So Justin Anderson, I'm not ready to give up on. I have a lot of doubt in his game, but at somebody that I would keep an eye on, and I'm willing to own a little bit of property on just. and Ernestine Island with the hopes that there's a little bit of a payoff at some point in his late 20s or maybe even early 30s.

What I will tell you is that if I were you and I were making this argument for him, I would turn to the Tony Bennett players. And I would say, look, like, here's what we've had with Tony Bennett players. And we can go back on this, that generally that has worked out with these guys. guys, even to Joe Harris, who becomes somewhat forgotten, right? Like that these guys have had success in the NBA. And so if he doesn't, he is more the exception than he is the rule, because you've usually gotten a pretty good to really good player when you're talking about the Bennett guys. And some of them have been, you know, there's been a standard of them being kind of underdrafted.

But I am not joining you on that island. I liked him coming out of the draft, but I have sold. all my stock. So I'd have to buy back now. I know it's probably a penny stock right now, right? Yeah, it's a penny stock. It's a penny stock. Okay. It's actually fractions of a penny right now. All right. Well, I'm going to give you a guy. Okay. Since you went this direction, I'm going to give you a guy that is a peso stock. Because this is a guy that is, he was drafted in the second round. He has already been, discarded by his first team. And now he signed a two-way contract with, I believe, the Milwaukee Bucks.

And that is Frankie Mason the third. Ah. I like Frank Mason. Frank Mason, I mean, he went to a bad team who then, in addition to being a bad team, stacked players on top of him like the entire time he was there. So they had Deerrin Fox and they had George Hill and then they went and signed Yogi Farrell and it was like, wait, what? So they constantly had guys that were taking his position. And I do think that, you know, that first year, I thought he was good.

I did. I saw him play several times. He averaged like eight points a game, got some rebounds, got some assists. You know, he's that kind of older point guard who. I thought was kind of ready-made to be a contributor in the same vein of, you know, other guys that we have seen. Not as good as a Fred Van Vlead or a Malcolm Brogden or a Jalen Brunson. But like, you know, that kind of four-year was really good in college. Like, of course he's pretty good.

Like, he's never not been pretty good. But now he's to the point where he signed a two-way contract with the bucks. But I think Frank Mason will be heard from. in the NBA. So I'm on Frank Mason the third island. He is a guy that I think is, I mean, there's no stock, right? I mean, you sign a two-way contract. You've got to prove your way back on to the team. But I always liked him. And he has not been terrible yet. He may just be a third guard. He may just be a guy, but I had a, I had a belief in him. And so I'm sticking with him. I'm sticking with Frankie Mason the third. That's a good one. I like that one.

For my next guy, I'll go all the way back to 2014. And he's somebody who's turned out to be a solid player. But I do wonder if there's a bit of a Victor Oladipo happening here where with Oladipo, he was a guy that I had ranked first in 2013. And then after his first seasons, I was like, oh, he is what he is. And that's it, nothing more. But then he had his breakthrough season with the Pacers as a reminder of what he potentially could be.

And I wonder if that could happen with Aaron Gordon. He just finished his fifth season. with the Orlando Magic, and he's a good player. I mean, he has not met my expectations of what I thought he would be in the 2014 draft. I viewed Aaron Gordon. I'm assuming a similar way that the Magic did when they picked him fourth. I thought Aaron Gordon could turn into a playmaking, versatile four because of the passing ability that he showed at Arizona, in addition to his improved shot, which has been fine for him in

the league, in addition to his versatile defense, in addition to his versatile defense, in addition to his elite athleticism. I thought that would manifest for him over time, and I still think it can because last season he did make a little bit of a baby leap, a baby step forward with his passing ability, in addition to the progress that he's made

on the offensive end over the years. But I do wonder if maybe, maybe, maybe with Orlando being a bit better overall with more talent around him, if there's an opportunity there for him to have a breakthrough, he's still only 24 years old, he literally just turned 24 yesterday on the 16th. So Gordon is younger than some of the guys were discussing,

younger than Frank Mason, younger than Justin Anderson, younger than a lot of guys that haven't had their breakthroughs yet. So for Gordon, I'm not giving up on that upside as a top 30 guy in the league. I don't know if he'll necessarily reach it, but I think that potential is still there, considering how hard he works,

how good of a kid he is, how good he wants to be. and because of the incremental progress we have seen since his year at Arizona. So he's somebody I'm keeping in mind as a breakthrough guy and maybe something much more than what we see today. I like that one. I like it because, you know, he had the dunk contest. People, you know, he's a fun player. He has had this weird position thing, you know, and kind of like, what is the best fit?

And then even in Orlando, what is the best fit regarding who he is playing with on that team? You know, we always talk about opportunity and fit. He has got an opportunity, but the fit has been weird. And he played for, you know, that whole Vogel thing was clearly a disaster. And I think people probably have given up on the idea of him being a top 30 player and like an all-star caliber player. So I think you would be on an island on that. But I don't think it's a ridiculous island. I think you'll have people that join you.

I could see that being possible. Yeah. All right, Kevin, we'll get right back to it, but I do want to remind everybody. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought you by Floor and Decor. Don't miss out. Floor and Decor is the only one-stop flooring shop that keeps general contractors, flooring specialists, and renovation experts ahead of the game. Thanks to their fully stocked warehouse of hard surface flooring,

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Visit floor and decor.com to locate the floor and decor nearest you. To score savings and service you won't find anywhere else, that's floor and decor.com. All right. Jeez, this is going to be hard. All right. I have named Jordan Bell. I have named Frank Mason. I have named Trey Lyles, right?

And we both had Terrence Ferguson. But I will replace Terrence Ferguson with, because we mentioned him a few weeks ago, I am sticking to my guns on this. Luke Canard. Ooh. So Luke Canard was drafted, I believe it was 12th. He was the pick before Donovan Mitchell. And that was a big thing.

His rookie year was like, really? Like he took, like the next pick was Donovan Mitchell. And he has that first year, didn't do much. Last year, only average like 23 minutes a game. I thought he was really good in their playoff series. They got bombed out by the bucks, but he might have been their best player in that series. And his numbers were good last year. Luke Kennard in his limited amount of time, which is not easy, was 44% from the field,

39% from three. And he's not a ridiculously bad defender. and he can just shoot the hell out of the ball. And so I'm a believer. I think he can be a starting quality shooting guard in the NBA. And I think be better than what he has shown yet. And I do think he can take a leap. I think a leap will come for Conard as the minutes go up, which hopefully they do.

I do think his production can go way up. So I'm on Luke Conard Island as a guy that I think when people look at that draft, I think they look and they go, Luke Conard, but I think in a couple years, they'll look and go, oh,

that was a good pick. Right. He's never going to be Donovan Mitchell, but I do think that he will be heard from. And I do think he can be a really good player in the NBA,

Luke Conard. So there's my next one, Luke Canard Island. That's a good one. It'll be interesting to see how the addition of Joe Johnson, as well as the prior edition

of Tony Snell impact his minutes and opportunity. year because they have lanks and galloway as well they have derrick rose in that back court reggie jackson a lot of guys who are deserving of minutes even marquith morse could play some three because of the drummond griffin front court uh so i wonder how much i hope he gets a lot of opportunity and i think he will because with all those all those names that were just thrown out there on the pistons you need a guy who can space the floor at a high level and that doesn't need the ball on his hands to make an

impact, and Luke Kinnard can do that better than a lot of those guys as a shooter. So he could have an important role on this roster with a lot of those guys who aren't necessarily the best and most dynamic perimeter shooters. Well, and as I said, you know, you got to that playoffs. He was, he got to play 33 minutes a game in that playoff series. She had 49% from the field and 60% from three. And I know they got wiped out, but he was good. And I thought he looked, you know, sometimes you, you, you see.

see like, all right, what do guys look like when the stakes get a lot higher? And I thought he was better than what he normally is. I'm a fan. I think he's, I think he's a player. And so I've got to stick with him. So I've got the Luke Canard Island. And now this is going to be hard to whittle down my last one.

But I want to hear your last one first. Oh, we got one more. I thought we had two more. Two. Oh, okay. So you crossed off Ferguson. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep.

Yep. All right. my next one is Mo Bamba that is actually you're laughing don't laugh Chris join me join me on Mo Bamba Island

I can't do it not after they re-signed Boussovich that's fair that's fair I can't do it and I will say this when it comes to Moamba I do worry about the opportunity with him in Orlando

and I'm not saying this will be the season I don't know if this will be the year where Mo Bamba ends up making an impact on this pretty good Orlando Magic roster because of all the other guys that they have. And you mentioned Vucevich. They also have Kim Birch. Ken Birch is somebody who did earn minutes last season and was productive. But with Bamba at 21 years old, I do think that all the things that were said about him prior

to the draft is a guy who could become an elite rim protector in this league, a guy who can space the floor on offense, a guy who can rim run. He still did show a lot of the things. that made him a top prospect in the draft, he just happened to get hurt. But also with big men, oftentimes it takes years for them to grow into their bodies and to develop as players.

And with Bamba, I think it would be silly to give up after one injury-riddled season. So for Bamba, whether it's Orlando or whether it's somewhere else, and it very well could be somewhere else. And if I were to place a bet, I'd probably place a bet on it being somewhere else. I still see Bamba having a long, successful career in the NBA. not going to join you.

I got to see more. Why? Because I've got to see more. I've got to see more. I mean, it's not like he was playing on the 96 Bulls, and they didn't want to play him a ton last year, you know? Well, it's not that they didn't want to play him a ton.

He played like 16, 17 minutes per game as a rookie, but he got hurt. Right. And then they re-signed Vucevic. They were not comfortable just saying, hey, we drafted this guy in the top six, seven picks of the draft. and so. Yeah, because they're trying to win. I understand that.

But how does that development help Mo Bamba get on the floor, get minutes, when you're bringing up Kim Birch? Listen, a lot of this, a lot of this, I mean, for God's sake, you brought up Ken Birch. This guy got drafted like sixth overall, and you're talking about Kim Birch? Come on, Keff. Come on, Keff.

Well, Kim Birch is five years older. I do worry about playing time for more. Obama. But if Obama starts riding the bench, if I'm one of the 29 other teams, I'm like, yo, what do you want for this guy who doesn't play? That's what I would be thinking about. And that's why it's an island, right?

No, but don't ask me, the reason I did not join you, or I'm not joining you yet on the island, is because in your argument, you brought up Ken Birch. That's why.

you lost me with Kimber. And at that moment, I said, okay, enough. Enough, enough. I can't do this. He's the number six pick in the draft for God's sake. Teams want to develop the number six pick in the draft. All right. And I know that you're saying they want to win now.

Like win what now? Like you're trying to extend your ceiling. That's what you're trying to do. And typically you want to get these guys on the floor and you have, you know, You have a thought of, hey, this is what we're going to be in three or four years. And if they think that Mo Bamba is in three or four years going to be a part of big winning, I'm not so sure that they throw that kind of a bag at Nikola Vosovic. Is that fair?

I think you still throw the money at Vucevic because then he becomes a tradable asset too. Okay. Well, I guess maybe we'll see if they trade Bucci Maine. Yeah, we'll see, man. We shall see. All right. So you got Justin Anderson, Tray Liles, Aaron Gordon, Bobba. So far, I have Jordan Bell, Frankie Mason, Tray Liles, and Luke Conard. Now, I am down to my last guy, and this was very, very hard. Now, I'm going to tell you right off the bat, I threw off guys, and this will be just for our listeners, I threw off guys that I thought were too good. You know what I mean? Like maybe they haven't gotten all. all of the opportunity that you would have thought they would get, or maybe they've been pushed ahead.

But they have clearly shown that they're good NBA players already, and that if they took a step, it wouldn't be all that surprising. Tyos Jones, who happens to play for the Grizzlies, who was signed from Minnesota, you know, it's like Jeff Teague and Derek Rose and Chris Donne and Zach will be. Everybody in the free world has been ahead of him for four years. But I've always liked him. I liked him coming out of the draft.

And so my conviction. My conviction stands with him. Justice Winslow, we both like him, so I threw him off, okay? Same one with T.J. Warren. So I will tell you, I have three guys that I was going to choose from to create my last island. Okay. One of them would be the most inhabited, I think. one of them would clearly be the least inhabited island

and one of them I really don't know. So which one should I go with? Should I go with the longest shot? Or, I'm talking about, like, it will be me and nobody else on the island.

Or should I pick one of the guys that I might have some friends on the island? Farno, give us both of them. I want both. Well, there's three. Give us the three.

just throw them out. All right. Here's the thing. I'm going to throw them all on the same island and anybody can join us. Okay. That sounds good. I like it. Denzel Valentine.

Okay. Hey, I'm going to name all three of these and you will not come. I promise you. Denzel Valentine. I might. Sendarius Thornwell. Ah, that's a good one. Jabari Parker.

Oh, yeah. Let's go. Let's go. That was my last, I had them all listed as a tie and I, I was going to figure out how I was going to break it. But I feel like your, your guys are all,

well, no. I mean, hell, by the way, you do have two members of the magic. Oh, I know.

That's a problem. When I was making this list, I was like, that's an issue. But that Orlando roster is interesting. It's an interesting roster. It's going to be hard for either one of them to get you a lot of inhabitants on the island. I don't know if they're necessary.

I suppose they could both take a big leap at the same time. But you do have that up against you. What if the island is in Disney World? Then we can get a lot of people to come to Disney. That's true. And they can join the island. Here's my problem is Cendarius Thornwell. who was it that he signed with?

I can't even remember anymore. He was on a really good team in L.A. with the Clippers, right? And so he's a guy that got discarded. Cavaliers. Cavaliers. Yeah. Well, that sucks.

And that's not good for me. That's not good. I get to admit, Thornewell's the one guy of those three where I'm not like, eh. I mean, I really, really, really liked Denzel Valentine in the draft. I had him, I honestly had him, ranked top 10 until the injury was revealed prior to the drafts.

And he's had an injury riddled career as well. Jabari Parker, I was super high on as well, and I've soured on him like everybody else has. I still have hope for Jabari. I still think Jabari can be a contributor as a spark plug off a bench for you, but he really needs to buy in on the defensive end of the floor. And that's something he has not done. And it's so damn frustrating with me, man, because I interview. you, Jabari before a Duke Boston college game when he was in college. And I asked him about his

defense. And at the time, he gave me a straight up honest answer where he's like, oh, no, it's, it's not technique or anything like that. It's not awareness. It's just the will. It's the will to defend. It's the mindset. And he said, that's what I need to work on. And all these years later now, that was in early 2014 when I asked him those questions. And still now in 2019, that mindset has still not developed. And that's so frustrating for me because I think with his big body and his agility and mobility that he shows on offense,

just like put the damn effort in on the defensive end of the floor, man. And you can stick around for a long time because he's good enough on offense. He can still rebound at a high level. He's good enough. I look at that and I say he is one of those guys that

we could look back and we could say good grief. What a deal. I mean, they're paying him $6.5 million. a year with a $6.5 million. I mean, he signed a two-year $13 million deal with a player option for the second year. Like, I do think that he could wildly outperform that, especially if the Hawks are a surprise team. You know what I mean? If the Hawks are a surprise team, he is, the kid is torn his frigging knee 50 times.

And he's still really good. You know, there are times where you see him and you see it. You see exactly why. that was a real argument, Parker or Wiggins, and I was a Parker guy. I was too. I was too. My rankings that year were Joelle Embed, Jabari Parker, and then Andrew Wiggins, and I believe I had Aaron Gordon fourth that year.

But I guess this is what, Team 4? Because it was Bucks, Bulls, Wizards, now Hawks? Yeah. This is 14. Yep. This is 14 and two ACL tears. He's just a fantastic offensive play. player though. He really is.

And so we will see anyway. He's solid. I mean, he still, his passing is just really not anything special. And his three-point shooting off the dribble is inconsistent. But he can at least hit spot-up jumpers for you, attack off the dribble, throw down some

ferocious dunks. I still like Jabari a lot, man. I'm not given up. I'm not giving up. I'm with you. I'm with you on Jabari Parker Island, Chris. Maybe we just do that one. Side by side with you. Then we'll just do Jabari Island and then we can have, I'll make them, maybe they're not like totally islands, just kind of like maybe shanties.

The Cendarius Thornwell Shanty and the, who was the other guy had? Oh, Denzel Valentine. Yeah, you like Denzel. I liked him, man. I think he's, I mean, again, he's probably a, you know, a role player forever. But I think can be better than what he's even shown. so far in the NBA. He's had some injury issues that, you know,

befell him in the draft. And that might have been why it certainly was in some case, why he dropped where he did. But I'm still a fan. I'm still a fan and I've not given up on him being better than what he has shown so far. All right. So we have thrown a lot of names out there.

You got one more? I got one more. And this is probably the one where there's the most inhabitants of this island. And that's Brandon Ingram, a new New Orleans Pelicans player. to me, I had him ranked number one ahead of Simmons in the 16 draft, which was a silly mistake. But I still see the upside inning room that he was unable to show consistently with the L.A. Lakers. I think it's been a bit underrated how much he's progressed on the offensive end of the floor in terms of improving his body, improving his at-room finishing.

He was a guy who got really bounced around, quite frankly, because he was so lean playing at Duke and as a young player in the NBA. But this past season, he got so good at finishing through contact with either hand around the rim. So finally, his silky smooth ball handling at his size, 6'9, is able to be rewarded. So he's at 6.9 a good passer, a smart decision maker. He has become a good at-room finisher. He can do a bit from mid-range off the dribble. The last real hurdle for him on the offensive end is finding consistent. as a three-point shooter.

And that's true for spot-up situations and off the dribble. And I think now in New Orleans, that opportunity playing alongside so many guys that are young and want to play fast and run up the floor, Ingram is going to have opportunity within this Pelican system to really shine on the offensive end. And I just hope the shot finds some consistency there because that's the last hurdle for him. He's already a good defensive player who's only going to get better as he gets. it's stronger at just 22 years old this coming season. Ingram, to me, I still think has legitimate superstar potential, a guy who can be a top

15, 20 guy in the league. And I think we're really going to see some of that this year in New Orleans. It would not, it wouldn't surprise me at all, if we see the raw numbers, something like 20 points, five rebounds, five assists. I think something along those lines is possible for him, but it's beyond the numbers that I hope to see even more incremental progress in his strengths and then maybe a bit of a leap and his weakness and that's the jumper, which has improved a bit, but needs to improve a lot more. I am a thousand percent with you on Ingram, a thousand percent.

I love him, man. I do too. I have always loved him and I think that his best days are still ahead of him. And I do think he can be an all-star. And it just so happens that as we are recording this, an article has gone up on the ringer.com by one Jonathan Charks. Brandon Ingram has plenty of talent and plenty of question marks. What should the Pelicans do ahead of the extension deadline for the 2016 draft class?

How about that? So everybody can go read about Charks kind of flushed out what they should do and whether or not they should roll the dice and give him a contract. I mean, and you have different, and he even starts the article by talking about, The Timberwell is giving Andrew Wiggins a max contract extension based on potential, and now they're saddled with it. On the other hand, the Hornets rolling the dice on Kemba before he was approved commodity, and he wound up being a huge bargain. And so it obviously can go one of two ways.

And I don't know what kind of an extension you would have to give, Brandon Ingram. I mean, a boatload, don't you think? Somebody would pay him a fortune. If I'm representing Ingham, I would want a boatload, especially because if you look at next year's free agent class with just how depleted it is with proven stars. Ingram, to me, seems like an obvious guy who can end up being one of those players that gets a max contract offer sheet. So if I'm, if I'm New Orleans, if I'm able to get him for less than that, I'd be going

hard for that. One of the big questions would be, could Zion and Ingram both reach their potential alongside each other? And I guess we're going to get to see this. year, you know, at least the first, the first glimpse of it, you know, how it looks together. New Orleans is, I mean, I'm so excited to watch that team, man. I'm so stoked. They are loaded.

I mean, I just, I could have just as easily said Lonzo Ball, too. I know it. As a guy, you know, I'm still on that island, too. Like, this team's really, really going to be exhilarating to watch. And the forgotten one was Josh Hart. Yeah, I think Josh Hart has already sort of proved himself as a solid role player, though. I mean, look, it's an island. You know, he's a solid role player.

That's what, you know. You know, beyond the fact that they had, their roster up and down, they got just so many good players on it. Beyond that, being at Summer League, there was that opportunity to see them up close. And though we only saw Zion very briefly, the kid who I included in my ringer article, as someone who would not fail, that I thought was going to be underdrafted, Nikiel Alexander Walker was absolutely unbelievable, as impressed as I was with any player. and I know the best of the best players from the draft did not play in it, but Alexander Walker was unbelievable. And Jackson Hayes was a lot better, a lot earlier than even David Griffin thought he was going to be. David Griffin didn't interview there saying I thought it was going to be a red shirt ear basically for Jackson,

but he is way farther along that we even thought. And so when you look at that draft and they got Zion and they got Alexander Walker and they got Jackson Hayes, Hish, they got players on that team. I mean, Drew Holliday and JJ Reddick and Brandon Ingram, I mean, you got a lot of guys that can score and do stuff. And that doesn't even include Lanzo. I mean, they got seven, eight guys that I always talk about. If you lined them all up on a wall, who would you want? I mean, they got a bunch of guys I'd want.

That's what I'd say. Oh, hey, you want me to give you one other name that I, since I unloaded all my names, I'll give you one other that was on there. And this will be my olive branch to the Dallas Maverick fans that were so mad at me about our argument a few weeks ago when I laughed at you for saying they could be a playoff team. They have a guy on their team when I was going through all the rosters that I really liked what I saw him. He didn't play all that much. Maxie Kleber, I like him. I forgot to mention him last time.

I like him. I mean, who was on Max Cleber Island? like nobody. I would imagine there's a large percentage of our audience that don't even know what I'm talking about. But I like that guy. A lot of MAVs fans like him. A lot of Mavericks fans really like his team. I thought he was good.

I like him. And so he was a name that I at least considered, but I didn't think I could make as persuasive an argument as with the other guys. All right. So here's what we had. I had Jordan, these are on my island. Jordan Bell, Frank Mason the third, Trey Liles, Luke Conard, Jabari Parker with special shouts out to Denzel Valentine and Sandarius Thornwell. Kevin had Justin Anderson, Aaron Gordon, Mo Bamba, Brandon Ingram, and then we both agreed.

We both had Trey Lyles and Terrence Ferguson, right? Yep. All right. I didn't miss anybody. I think we did pretty good. And you are free to tell us, for those of you listening, if you will join us on our islands. And clearly as the NBA season gets started in, I guess, we've got less than or about a month now exactly from when the season, it might be a month to the day because it starts on a Tuesday, I believe. Since we've got a month to the season as the season begins, there's at least a group of names that if they do well and you have joined us on our island, we can all commiserate upon their successes.

And then some of these guys will obviously not. We still got stock in them, but who knows how it's all going to pan out. Kevin, fun show, man. I will talk to you next week. Talk to you next week, Chris. Thanks to listen to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars.

It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.