The Ringer NBA Show - Spurs-Suns Rivalry, Spurs-Lakers Rivalry, and Franchise Rebuilding With Shea Serrano | Real Ones

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

Logan and Raja welcome The Ringer’s own Shea Serrano to the podcast and he has a burning question for Raja Bell to start off the show. They get into the Spurs-Suns rivalry (0:50), the Spurs-Lakers rivalry (19:45), and the process of rebuilding after experiencing the glory of a dynasty (26:30). Then Shea tells a story from his new book, 'Hip-Hop (And Other Things)' (34:35), sends a message to friend-of-the-show Juan Toscano-Anderson (38:40), and makes some promises about the Aces next season (41:05). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Shea Serrano Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The Ring Your Wrestling show is getting you closer to all things pro wrestling. The Masked Show with David and Kaz drops every Thursday on the feed, along with the new show hosted by pro wrestling superfan Evan Mack called MacMania. Plus, hear instant reactions to all the biggest WWE pay-per-view events with their post-paper-view shows. Check out The Ring of Your Wrestling show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. What's adding in Real Ones, Logan Murdoch, of the Real Ones. And I just want to give you a quick message is that the real one of the week will not be going to Roger Bell's mic, a cut out on him.

So the audio is a little fuzzy, but this is one of our best episodes, man. I loved it. We had Shay Serrano on the Real On the Real Ones podcast. Tap in. What's popping? Real Ones. Morgan Murdoch here. Roger, we have a special guest in the building.

We have Texas's own. We have a New York Times best-selling author. Yeah, baby. Say it all. Say it all. He listens. He got them elbows on his car right now. There's going to be a version of this podcast.

cast that's chopped and screwed. Shay Serrano was in the motherfucking building. Shea, how you doing, bro? What is up, gentlemen? I'm very excited to be here. More excited than maybe I even should be. Roger, I usually when we have a guest that we

usually have, that I usually let you get the first question, or I get the first question. But actually, this is the first time maybe in pod history, of real ones history, that Shay has a question for you, Roger. I do. I do. He just used to come on to pod have fired a first question off?

I mean, yeah. When you're in New York best time with New York Times best something off, you can kind of do some shit like that. Fair. So, Shay, what's you got to ask? What you got to ask, bro? Roger. It's a two-part question, honestly, because I'm in San Antonio. I've been in San Antonio.

I was born here, a giant Spurs fan my whole life. The 2007 Sun series, one of the best series ever. So here we go. First question. The first part of this question is, number one, do you hate the Spurs? And number two, was there, would there ever have been a time after 2007 when you considered playing for the spurs? Because within San Antonio, Raja Bell's name rings out as like, he should have been a spur at some point in his career. It's you.

It's Mike Conley, Sean Livingston, Udana's Haslam. That's like the top four right there. You know what I'm saying? That's what I wanted to ask. It's the only reason I'm here. No, no. I didn't ask. I didn't give him an answer to you answered on this part.

Let me just say this man knows how to come on a pod and ingratiate himself to a host. I know, I know. He's a crow. I know. It's good questions. Yes, I do hate the spurs, but not in a hateful way. I hate like a jealous way, right? Because of the stability, the success.

In my mind, maybe what could have been had I been good enough to make that team when I was when I was there for preseason? And my buddy, I renewable. and those guys were Derek Dial and Seannell Scott, they all made it. So I do kind of hate, but only in a jealous kind of capacity. And in terms of playing for the Spurs, after I got cut for them,

Shea, I had a chance, I think I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again. Like, when I came into the league, I came in, so I came in, like, through a free agent, you know, try out sort of,

way, right? And so to get invited to the San Antonio Spurs training camp, what I had to do was go to this open tryout with like probably 60 CBA guys in it. And we all stayed at like local hotels and they would bring us in and, you know, we'd work out all day like Saturday and we, you know, we go to war with each other and beat each other up. And then you come back and you do it Sunday and they'd send you on planes and go home. You don't even know how you date. And then if you would press somebody, they bring you back. And so they brought me back and they signed me. But that was what I had to do for every team. And so I always said that on my way out the door, I wanted it to be on my own terms if I could control it. I didn't want to do that anymore. So the Spurs actually called me. I was home. It was after

whatever had happened in Utah. And my agent also represented Manu. He was good friends with some of the people in the Spurs. And they wanted to kick the tires. They said they could use a player like me. And I was flattered for sure. But I asked him, I said, Herb, I man, are you sure like this is going to be they just want to know that you're in shape? They want to know that you could still play. They want you to come out and play some pickup with Mano and Tim and all those guys. I said, okay, bet. So I got on the plane, excited, got off the plane. And first red flag was like, no one was there to kind of like say, hey, Raj, let's go, we're moving this way. So I was like, oh, you know, you know that treatment. You're like, wait a minute. I got to get my bags. I get

out to the curb. I'm looking around like, uh-oh. And then I saw Kalina has a booki and somebody else. And I was like, no, this seems to be more of a kind of camp type of deal. So I kind of peppered a guy with questions as he drove me to the days in, which was like the third major red flag. Yeah. Right, right, right. And I found out that it was like a free agent type of thing. So like I literally got to the lobby, hop back in an Uber called R.C. Buford and thanked him personally like over a voicemail and went home. And that was the last time I, but I was close.

I wanted to be a spur, but just I couldn't do it under those terms anymore. Yeah. Shea. All right. How do you feel? How do you feel knowing? Because I want to ask both of you guys a question because I know, I've known, no, Raja Spurs story. We've talked about it on the pod.

We've talked about this. I want to ask, Shay, how do you feel about that knowing that he probably, he could have been a spur under a different life? And Raja, how do you feel knowing that, you know, you hate the spurs, but more I just think it's like you hate you couldn't wear Spurs jersey is all I'm hearing. How does that feel? Go Shea first. You go ahead first, Shea.

Well, I think the 2013 Spurs would have fucking loved to have Raja on the team. Maybe Raja stops the Ray Allen three. That's going to be my, that's going to be my, there you go. He would have got the rebound. He would have got the rebound. He would have got the rebound. That's my hot take right there. I would have definitely kicked him in the cat.

before you could shoot that three. I promise that. Hey, you know what? Pride sometimes is, it's tough, right? Like, it gets in the way sometimes.

And it's just, I mean, I'm keeping it a buck, right? Like, we do that on the pot. Like, I,

that was a prideful thing for me, right? Like, I had come in under such tough, and I just didn't want to do it. My kids were just starting elementary school, kindergarten.

But, oh, yeah, yeah. I love San Antonio, my first the first real camp that I ever felt a part of I had vets like you know David Robinson ninja the general um Terry Terry Porter Steve Kerr Danny Ferry um jaron Jackson senior like you couldn't ask for like better professional people to be around and model you know practice habits after and so you know pop bud Mike Brown uh Egan all of those guys I mean it was just a pros heaven.

And I was always salty. And Pop and I always shared a little pregame. Like almost every single time we played, I would go over and give him a hug. And he'd always say, man, we should have kept you. And that was like the highest praise I could ever get. I always wondered what it was because this was like just a thing that sort of got into your ear when you lived in San Antonio. I remember it was my dad who said it.

We were watching a son's game, Spurson game. And just like out of nowhere, he was like, that guy should. should have been on the Spurs. And I was like, I don't know what the backstory is here, but all right, I'm with it. And then from then on, he was like on the list of like, cross your fingers, hope it happens. It would have been, it would have been a good fit, I feel like. But, you know, what are you going to do? I appreciate that, me.

So during, obviously, you guys have had your battles, just, you know, the Spurs and the Suns. What was it like for you, Roger, going into those rivalries, knowing that you, you know, it's an it's a rivalry, but it's also you have a big affinity and respect for this team, being a member of the Sons. How did it feel going into that rubber and Shay? How did it feel to be a fan on the under end of that rivalry? How did you view the Sons? And I'll go with Roger first.

How did you feel going into that rivalry? Well, I mean, for us, it was a rivalry. I don't know that they considered it won. I don't, we never beat them. They always got to be. You know, but I had a lot of motivation in those series. You know, I just described the circumstances under my, you know, preseason there and what happened.

And, you know, I'd never had any hard feelings, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't want to beat them. And then there were some real personal connections. Manu and I shared an agent, you know, and we were cool. And, you know, Timmy Duncan and I are from the same place. And we're cool. And, you know, there's always, you know, Timmy's the, you get off the plane. Timmy Duncan's, you know, pictures on the wall. I would never be that. But if you win a chip, you get a little bigger, you know? And so I always had reasons to want to beat them. But you knew there was very little. margin for error when you played the Spurs. Like, you had to be, you had to be as close to perfect as you could be. And that was just giving yourself a chance.

What was it like when you saw the all-out brew ha-ha-ha in the postseason? The Spurs, I think it was in 2007, where, you know, you guys were dead in the water on that one. And I know, and Raj's just like all this goodwill in this podcast is about to go to shit because we're about to talk about to. But how did you feel during the Bruhaha? Roger was the first one in there. If you go back and you watch the clip, he's the first one in Robert Orie's nose, which is fucking, this is why people in, this is why people in San Antonio like Roger Bell so much. This is also why the 2007 Sons, for me, were the first Sons team that we were like,

like, afraid of a little bit. We played them in 05, we were like, this is not going to be that big of a deal. And we beat them 4-1. We went into their house and, like, you know, we were doing all of things that the sons were lauded for, that was a running gun sons when that all got started and the Spurs went in there and did a version of the same thing. We're like, y'all want to run? We can run too. But when 2007 rolled around,

they were meaner. They were like angrier. Because I think if you look at that game, a game four is when it happened. We had that, we were up by like 10 or 11 points in the fourth quarter. And normally that would have been enough. It would have been like, well, this, we're going to go up 3-1. The series is going to be over.

But they didn't like back down that time. And then, you know, they end up running us off the court for the last few minutes of the game. They go up by three. I think we is when Nash gets the ball and there's 30 seconds left and then Robert cheap shots them into the

stanchion or whatever that thing is called. And then everything goes, goes nuts. Now I will say, everybody talks shit about that moment. Here's the thing though. Here's the thing. Number one, Steve Nash sold it.

He sold it a bit when he hit the thing. He throws his arms back and like, like, like he sold it. He sold it. Raza seething right now. You're, Raz, it's season right now. Go ahead, say. Here's the other part.

Everybody's like, oh, they should not have beat the suns that year. They had all their players for four, for three of the four losses, including game six. You had them all. And in game five, y'all were up by 20. And couldn't hold on in Phoenix. So I'm just saying. That's all I'm saying.

That's all I'm saying. Your son's propaganda is looking funny in the light right now. Like, I am always interested, though. to hear, and I've never really asked the Spurs fan how they felt, because I just said, I don't think the Spurs felt it as a rivalry, but I do wonder if Spurs fans had any kind of, not fear,

but any kind of concern as to whether or not we were a bad matchup for the Spurs. Let me just say this. And the reason why that hit so hard, sorry, Shade, the reason why him saying that Steve sold it hit so hard is because Steve and I were out one day, I think we were watching a fucking soccer match somewhere in Tribeca or something like that.

like and we were we were you know i don't know three sheets to the wind at least at that point and he said something to the fact of him selling that and he had never said it to me before he had never said it and i looked over at him like you motherfucker yeah because i would not have run up on robert ory and that me running over there is really like steve's not going to do anything about that when robert ory checks him he's just going to like you're going to have your normal hey bro what the hell you do that you're going to do that and they're going to break it up. Me running over and getting the forearm in my chest

is what really sets off the kind of the little mini scrum that happens, right? And so I'm an asshole. But you should have told me that, bro. You know I'm one of your hitters, bro. You over here talking to Steve, you know I'm one of your hitters, bro. Like, you can't be doing that.

Steve, Steve, Steve, Steve, look, you're listening to this, Steve Nash. Yo, next time when y'all playing pickup, up half court at L.A. Fitness in Florida, when somebody checks you, Steve, make sure that it's real before Roger catches a case. Or just give a brother, just give a brother one of like.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. Something, God. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will say the suspensions were pretty shitty. Even in San Antonio, we didn't like that it happened because it was like, you know, if you're going to fight the other team, like you want them to have all of their guns.

Like, that's part of it. And also, I think in like the second quarter of that game, first quarter, Duncan came off the bench for a second when like a little thing happened and he didn't get suspended. And it was like, you know what I'm saying? If I'm remembering that correctly, it was a long time ago, but I feel like that happened. We didn't like that the suspended happened. We were afraid of the of the sons that year because y'all were good.

Y'all are higher seed than us that year, too. We had to go there to play off if I remember correctly. But yeah, yeah, yeah. You know who I always felt like they were, I mean, aside from Genobley and Tony Park, there were matchup issues for everyone, right? Like the same way Steve and Amari were. Mike Finley, who was my vet with the match. Oh, yes.

Was so big and timely. Like, he wasn't getting 20 in most of those games, but Logan. I mean, and I don't remember these games, like every play of every game. But you do remember huge momentum shifting or momentum saving type of shots. I might just seem to like be right on time with the shots he made in that series. Spurs, Finley. Spurs Finley that year was like, I mean, the Lakers didn't get that far, but Spurs Finley was just kicking ass.

He was just, he was just, if it was two points, that was a monumental two points. If he only had three points in the game, I mean, he made a three with 30 seconds left. Go ahead, Shay. Give me your Michael Finley stories. My favorite Michael Finley story when he was on Spurs. Because remember, he played for Dallas for so long, and they couldn't get him a title. And so he came to us. He's like, let's go get this shit.

So he was with us when we played. played the Sons in 06. I mean, excuse me, not the Sons, the Mavericks in 06. And that's when the Mavericks beat us in Game 7 in San Antonio. But there's a part during that series where Finley, he wanted to win so bad you could tell. So he goes up and he dunks it.

Boom. And the ball goes through the net like it normally does. And it bounces off the ground and it's coming up in the air and he fucking headbutts the ball. And you're like, yes! Yes! That's what we need right now. He was such a monster. It was so great to watch him and get that title.

Man, man, what a player. I just want to say, Shea, as a, you know, as a Laker fan growing up and watching the, you know, the Spurs Lakers rivalry. Oh, God. I didn't, I didn't get to that in a second, but I didn't appreciate how, I didn't appreciate the home court advantage that San Antonio actually has. I was like, okay, you're playing songs from like three years before. There's like, it's just a random, like, playlist. I don't know what's up with this. But when I got to, when I went to San Antonio for the first time,

It was 2019 for a regular Warriors Spurs, a regular season game. And I remember just seeing just the utter defiance to the visiting team. You guys don't give a shit. There's hell of tunnels and the bowels of what do you guys call it? Is it? It was AT&T Center, I think, when I was there. But I just remember you guys just being like, yeah, this is San Antonio. Deal with it.

Like, we don't give a fuck. We go through these 17 tunnels to get to the locker room. we don't care there might be a bat flying through this shit eat your H-E-B and shut the fuck up that's basically what it is can you tell people the San Antonio Spurs home court advantage that we as the rest of the country

just don't even know about and don't even appreciate because what it is is it's a bunch of fucking drunk Mexicans in there just ready we're just ready it's all that it is and the place is hell out the way the fucking arena is hell out the way it's just in the middle of nowhere bro yeah dog

You got to get there. You're going to have to make a drive to get there. There's nothing going to be around. Yes. Yeah, it's a very good basketball environment. We have this thing called the baseline bombs, which have been around forever. And it's just straight up like, like they want to fight. They just want a fist fight.

That's all they want to do. That's first and then basketball. It's awesome. I remember that I had a back-to-back. We had to do San Antonio to Minneapolis. And it was nasty. It was nasty. That should have been

That shit hurt That shit hurt, Brody But we had that We had that back to back And I just remember being groggy And just tired And then I had to go walk All the way to the Uber

And that was a mission And it was just a big ass party outside, dog At the Uber, it was just At the Uber entrance And I just remember like Yeah, San Antonio is just a great place That I never even thought to And I spent the New Year's Eve in San Antonio, too.

It was great on the Riverwalk. I didn't know how much you guys party down there. It's lit. I just want to say I love San Antonio. We have a whole week-long festival called Fiesta, where it's just like, let's all go downtown and drink and do some stuff. When is that, Shay? When is that?

I have no idea. It just sort of shows up on TV and you're like, well, let's go. I think I was in town for one of those, man. The whole city was like the whole downtown area is on fire. like a party everywhere in the street. Yeah, they just shut the whole thing down. And it's pure, though. It ain't like, it's like, no,

these are the residents of this city out here congregating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like it's somewhere around the end of the end of March. Like, it's shortly after spring break. I always love San Antonio. I mean, first of all, it's a great, it's a great place to play. I mean, fans can be obnoxious and loud, but it's their job. And I was appreciated.

No, yeah. So can the bats. But I was appreciated, rowdy, You know, crowds that we played against, right? Because that's what you're, you know, that's what you play for. You play for the energy and the love. But the city itself, like I always loved to eat in San Antonio. Oh, yeah.

You know, it just had some great grub, bro. I based most of my cities off of what I could eat and whether the food was good and whatnot. It was a great place. We got to get to the, we got to get to the shits because last week, and this is going to talk about something that I've always wanted to talk about with Shea on air. Now, last week, the Lakers went into San Antonio and we're down. Double digits came all the way back. We had a Russell Westbrook game, baby.

He shitted on one of your players. I forgot his name, but he went dunked all over him and did the Rust thing. He did a lot of great things. One of the biggest wins of the Lakers season. Shea, how did you feel watching that game? And then we're going to get into the Lakers Spurs robbery. How did you feel watching that game after all these years? I just think it's hilarious.

It's one of the biggest wins of the season. It was. The Spurs are supposed to win 28 games this year. And you're like, yeah. We went in there. We did. Y'all have arguably the greatest player of all time on your team. And you're the sixth seed right now.

So I'm like, I feel great. Real quick. Real quick. Real quick. You know what? Remember Kobe's, I think it was Kobe's second to last year. And they went into San Antonio. It was a Nick Young game.

And we went up in there and beat y'all ass. And we didn't have anybody. And so I'm just going to say, I don't give a fuck about those things. I don't care what the record is. It's the fucking Spurs, man. So how do you see, this is the Spurs Lakers' rivalry iteration of this, Roger. This is what that is. So how does Spurs fans of San Antonio feel about the Lakers when they come to town?

What does that rivalry like? Oh, man. That early 2000s rivalry from 99, I'm going to count 99 because we played y'all and we beat you. We swept y'all that year. See, see, see. Everybody ignores that one. See?

I'm saying. I'm saying. This is what we talk about, right? We swept y'all and then Sports Illustrated had this great cover with Timmy going to work. And it's just a substance over style. And I was like, here we go. That's what it was. You made us cry too in 2002, 2003.

But go ahead. You also made us cry in L.A. Yeah, that was a hard one. So that happens in 99. And 2000, Timmy gets hurt. So we don't, we don't get to play, y'all. We're just like, all right, we're done. I think we lost to Phoenix that year, if I'm not mistaken.

2000. So the Lakers get the championship in 2000. And then after that, there was fucking nothing you could do with Kobe and Shao. 1. We beat the breaks off of y'all. They just had that take. The 2001 Lakers, one of the three greatest basketball teams ever. Throw them out there against anybody. They were just too good.

You couldn't do anything. Alan Iverson had to go super heroic level to get one game. to get one. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think, I think we only got one two against y'all that year. No, we swept you guys. I'm sorry, we swept you guys. In 2001 y'all guess? You guys swept everybody but us. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had game two, by the way, though, but that's like, let's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. Yeah, we can't go to. No, no, no, no. Go ahead, Shay, what we're talking about? We're not talking about almost wins over here. Yeah, that's right. The Lakers and Spurs were reserved. I think they go, they go 16 and one that, that year in the playoffs.

2002 happens the Lakers again we're just like fed up at this point we keep losing 2003 finally finally we stare down the Lakers we're like if we're going to win the championship

if we're going to win the championship we have to beat these motherfuckers it was when Robert already misses a shot in like in game five we were we were we were winning by a blunt we were winning by 100 points and then here come to Lakers

here come to Lakers doing what they do. And then Robert Ory has a wide open, as open as he's ever been in his career from the same spot that he hit the three to beat Detroit in the finals when he was on the spurs. Wide open, Kobe takes it in the corner. His little pump fake bowing is all over him, throws it to Rob. He lets it go. And it goes as far in as it can possibly go. And then it rattles out. And I remember they would do the championship DVDs at the end of the season when the team wins. And they're interviewing David Robinson about it. And David Robinson was like, he talked about that shot specifically.

It's like a thing happens when you win a championship where it lets you know it's your year. And when that shot popped out, we knew it was our year. And there you go. And it was like, oh, shoot. So how did you feel the next year with the Fisher shot, sir? I'm just saying just take all the way all this goodwill. It's the most heartbreaking sports moment of my life, of my life. like nothing has ever hurt not the ray allen three not losing to dallas in oh seven not um we find

the sons beat us in 2010 they just like ran us off the court like you started to fill your mortality none of it compared to to derrick fisher fucking derrick fisher with the stupid headband over his ears Why you put it over your ears, Derek? It makes so mad. I mean, because this was like, you finally beat them, they're showing back up, and you want to do to them what they had done to us, which was like beat us a couple years in a row. And you guys are the better team. You guys are the better team now. We were the champions.

We were supposed to win. We would have had a, we won in 05. We went in 03. We should have won in 04. It was just every bad thing that could have happened in that moment happened. And here's the thing that makes the, here's the thing that makes the, you know, the, you're going to know, the Lakers such a good, like, villainous team. And part number one, because Kobe Bryant was the most terrifying player we ever played ever.

He just hit every shot against us. I wrote about this in the basketball book in 2017. Nobody ever made us more afraid than Kobe Bryant did. It's a whole section in there about it. But Tim Duncan hits this goofy fadeaway jumper over Shaq to put us up by one. It was some bullshit. It was bullshit. All caps.

And we did not care. We didn't care. And then Derek Fisher does it. And so they interview Shaq. The only time Shaq has ever played defense that good ever. He has played the best defense of his life on that one. And Timmy got him. And then so they interview Shaq afterwards.

And Shaq was just the king of post-game quotes. And he was just like, one lucky shot deserved another. And just to hear somebody say that it was lucky. And you're like, come on. Like they were so good at when you were down, putting their foot on your throat. You know, Derek Fisher shows up, I believe, in the next game. he's wearing and shoot around a shirt that just says 0.4 on it with no other words or anything. And you're like, these fucking guys.

I get why you hate it. I get why you hate the Lakers. Raja, I get why you hate the fucking Lakers now. I get it. They were the bullies. They were big bullies and they knew it and they were so good at it. They were so good at it. They are good at them bullies.

Actually, I want to ask you a question about the current, like the current state of the Spurs. They seem to be in this kind of weird spot. Like, I wonder how much pop, you know, just not has left in the tank in terms of ability and he's an all-time great. Like, I know he could coach his ass off when he wants to. But, you know, when you've gone through years, like you guys are just kind of reminiscing over and we were. And now your roster is what it is. I guess my question would be how long you think pop has left? And organizationally, like, I feel like it almost needs a there's a reset button that needs to be hit.

Like, how do Spurs fans feel about that? I think it's starting to feel like that a little bit, but this so far has been a really good season for us. Because this is the first time that we have all young guys there. I mean, you have Doug McDermott is there or whatever. But like there's no, there's no DeMarc. There's no Lamarcus anymore. It's just like the young guys are out there. Dejante, here's the ball.

Go be the guy. You know what I'm saying? And we're getting to watch that happen. I went to the Bucks game, not the one in Milwaukee, but the one in San Antonio. And so it was really fun to watch this young team look across the court at the champions, at Janice, at Middleton, at Drew, and not back down. They lost the game because they didn't have enough firepower. They didn't lose the game because they were afraid.

And that's what you want to see in the young players. That's what you want to see in Dejante and Lonnie and Derek. Like if you have that in place, then it feels great because you're like, all right, cool. We're not playing for right now. We're playing for three years from now. or whatever. Pop will be gone. He's going to have the system, the team in place, the system in place, and somebody slides in there, Becky slides in there, and it's the new, it's the new spurs. You know what I'm saying? It feels like that's what we're setting up right now.

So it's very, like, it's a lot of fun to watch when they played Milwaukee again in Milwaukee this time, and DeJante goes nuts in the fourth quarter. So it's 16 points in the fourth quarter. And you're like, yes, when you start doing that multiple times in the season, this is going to rule. Is it weird that you guys This is the first time you guys have just fully just rebuilt, right? You guys have always retooled around Duncan and things like that. Is it cool? Because for me as an outside, I haven't watched this iteration of the Spurs as much,

but when I do see them, it's like a great quality that I love with young teams is they're not scared. And I remember referencing the game from last week with the Lakers is Lonnie Walker's talking shit, Dejante is talking shit. Everyone is saying they don't give a fuck. Yeah. Does that give you solace? How does that make you feel where it's like they're batching the energy that you probably have on your couch right now? Yeah, yeah.

It does. It makes you feel better. It makes you feel okay with having lost the game. You know what I'm saying? Like, if you get in a fight with somebody and you get beat up, like sometimes you just get beat up because the other guy's better at fighting, as long as you can walk away from that and you feel like I didn't lose because I was afraid. Yes.

You're fine with it. you're fine with losing that fight. That's interesting though because, like, it's, I mean, that it is fun, right? When you have a team that that's just got a bunch of young cats and they're going out there and rocking. Are they those dudes? So, Desjante Murray, I love Dejante Murray. I think he's a really good player. But you know, like, I know, like, that, that's like two years of that.

And then you're like, well, you know, we got to start winning in the third year. You're like, we need that dude. So it's going to be interesting. I mean, this isn't really a question. But to see if, hey, they can eat. or lower that dude, B, if one of those dudes are that dude or C, if they can do what they've always done and hit on something in a draft where, you know, you wind up with the type of personnel, you're going to need to take that next step.

Roger, from an NBA perspective, and I want to get Shay's opinion on this, too, after this, but when you talk about teams in a San Antonio, in an Oklahoma City and a Memphis, right, where I think Oklahoma City is also going through this phase where they don't have an identity beyond the super, super duper stars that they had in their building. I'm talking about Russell Westbrook. I'm talking about Kevin Durant. And all they know is winning for a long time. And then all of a sudden, now they have to rebuild.

Can they be patient in that way in a small market? And my question is, how do you be patient in a small market like that when you don't have, when you don't have the guarantee that there's an allure for people to come there like that? I think smaller markets naturally are going to be a little bit more patient. you know like lakers fans are never going to be patient you know next fans have very little patience i think smaller markets generally speaking have a little bit more patience san antonio's interesting though because of the success you know that they've had traditionally like you know you're accustomed to a product um so maybe a little less patient than other small markets but you know

i don't i don't have the recipe for that i don't have the answer to how you do it um it's just a really difficult spot and i think this is where you see owners and you know, when they're in it, you know, trying to hash out what they're going to propose to players at the next CBA. And you have some of these smaller market owners. This is the position that they find themselves in that the smaller markets kind of bitch about, right? It's where we're at right now as Spurs or or OKC. Like, we've got this young talent. It's good young talent.

It's fun now. But if we can't draft the superstar or he's not there, sometimes they're drafts that just, you know, don't have those guys. It's not that you missed. It's just where you fell in the draft, you didn't get a shot at him. Or maybe there wasn't a guy who turned out to be a championship delivery type of talent. But if we can't do that, it's not set up all the time to be an alluring destination for, like, LeBron or KD. And, you know, how long that takes to find that guy ultimately determines when you win a championship again. But I think ownership, this is the conversation they have as it pertains to smaller market versus bigger market.

when we find ourselves right here, how do we stay competitive in the conversation? Or do we just kind of get left out as a cool young team for 9-10? We're Sacramento. Yeah. Here's where we are. Like it's been what? How many years of that? Yeah.

These 15 years. 15 years and say men and out of that. Right? So that's, you know, that's, I don't know how you stay patient, but I know that the owners in those markets, this is what they fight for. Shea, how are you staying patient? It was, it was honestly a little bit frustrating like two years ago because we still had, You look at the roster and you see the names on there and you're like, oh, like, we're going to go get this, make a run of a championship, whatever.

You sort of talk yourself into it. But really, once you sit back and look at who's on the team, what the team is capable of doing, what you do is you set different goals for yourself. You know what I'm saying? Like when we played the rockets in the playoffs, it had been the first time in like a quarter century, we got to play the rockets in the playoffs. And everybody knew we weren't going to. going to win the title that year, but we're like, if we could just beat the rockets in the second

round of the playoffs, then the season was a success. And that's what we ended up doing. And it felt like it felt meaningful like we had done something really big. You do the same thing here. This season, if we make the playoffs this season when we're not supposed to, then the season was a success. Anything above the baseline you set makes you feel good about it. You know, I think that's really all you have to do. You just set realistic goals and then chase those down and you feel great. Is it important? I mean, this is interesting because I'm down in dolphin land to continue. Like so once you've readjusted, right?

And you've recalibrated and you said, all right, boom, realistic expectations. You want to see steady growth too, right? Like, so we're not going to like, right? Right. So that's where the dolphins fan is right now where they readjusted. Then they were ahead of track last year. Now they're like one in seven. And so a dolphin fan is losing his mind, you know, because we're taking a step back.

But once you readjust, then you've got to have some growth. Yeah, that's 100% true. It's got to be moving forward. As long as you're moving forward, everybody is cool. All right. Now, this is one of the biggest reasons why we've had you on is because we've been wanting to have you on for a long time. But it was a great time because we have, you had just released a book.

Oh, you got the book. Hip hop and other things. It is, how many books is this for you on the other things of the other things series? This is the third one. We pitched it as a trilogy, so this is the final book of the End Other Things series. It's the fourth book overall, though. Okay, so this is now, Rajah, this is forwarded by Bun B of UGK. You should get this book because it is a lot of stories centered around hip-hop and things like that.

Shea, what was it like to research for this book? What was it like to, what was the biggest thing you think you've learned going into this? And what was it like during doing the research for this? It was a great deal of fun because this is a thing that, this was like when I was researching for the basketball book. just something that I've loved my whole life or since like you start loving things in your early teenage years. I get to spend a year and a half of my life learning more about it, researching, listening to everything. It was a great, great time, a great time. Now, Raja is, you know, he's down in Florida, but from what I kind of know about him, he has, you know, he laces his tims on really

tight, right? And you can see he has the baldly, like, Onyx. Is there a super duper hip-hippity, hippity-hop story from the book or somewhere that you could tell Raja, like, that's East Coast way, right? Like, straight tunnel vibes. Not no like West Coast shit, like we're on low, no, we need some straight shit, straight from the tunnel that you could, that you could give Raja about a very East Coast artist that he can rock with or he could just, he could just really rock out with. Do you have an East coast hip-hop story for rogerbeau i i don't know if this counts as a story but this is my like favorite little fact that i learned because i was very familiar with you know the public enemy has

the logo of the guy in the snipe it's like a silhouette of a guy and the sniper the sniper crosshairs and i had seen i mean you've seen this logo for 30 years or whatever it is and i never knew who it was and so when i was working on the book i said i wonder who who this guy is that was like a thing that I put in my notes to try to find out later on. And I was working on this whole other thing about L.L. Cool J. And I was watching the video for I'm Bad. And there's a part in the video of I'm Bad where he's bouncing around in the warehouse and he's posturing and doing whatever.

And he like takes, there's a guy in the background just sort of standing there, not doing much. And L.O. goes by him and he stands still. He puts his arms back like this. And then the guy takes the jacket off of him. And L.O. just keeps on going. And so I hit up my researcher, my fact checker, this guy named Dart Adams. who's a rap historian. And I said, DART, who's the guy who takes off this guy's jacket here?

Because I would like to know more about this person. And he's like, oh, that guy's name is E Love. Like, he's a hype man. And I said, oh, that's cool. Thanks for telling me. And then he goes, oh, by the way, that's the same guy that they used for the logo in the public enemy crosshairs. Like, that's his silhouette. He's just like all.

And I was like, man, that's fucking cool. That's like a cool little fact to know. It couldn't, it would never come up naturally in a conversation where you could just like throw it out there. You'd have to be a fucking, like an asshole of a guy to be like, oh, by the the way, did you know, you got to do that to get that information in there. But it's just a cool thing to, it was like a cool thing to learn about when I wanted to know about it, what wasn't actively, like, searching it out. You know what I'm saying? Raw, that seems like your bag. That seems like your bag. What's your hip-hop bag? What is your hip-hop bag? No, I mean,

I like all hip-hop, but I am biased to the East Coast, man. I came up in the, you know, that was 90s. That was my genre, like late 80s, early 90s is when I was in. So I'm, I'm, You know, Nas, Wu-Tang, Biggie, all of that. But I get down with West Coast. I like Texas rap, too. I like it all. But that is my bag. You are correct.

You are correct. Now, before we get out of here, Shea, you are, we know this. You are, you my Mexican brethren. And we all know, we all know your affinity for Mexican basketball players. And particularly, one, Juan, Descano Anderson, who is a friend of the show. Yeah. I'm going to give you, as long as you need, no more than two minutes, just look right into your camera right now. Just look right in and just send a message right now, whatever you want to say to Juan Descano Anderson.

What do you got to say? What do we have to say from the biggest Mexican basketball fan to the best Mexican basketball player of all time? I just feel really great about the state of Mexican basketball players in the world right now. We have, I mean, we got Juan who's out there doing it. You have Devin down in Phoenix. Yes. Just showing up fucking Chicano style every time. You got LeBron shouting out Taco Tuesday.

We're going to count that as well. Like we have so many right now. I really like watching Juan play. He's one of those guys who like, he's just not afraid. And you love to see that. You love that this is a guy who's representing. us just going out there, diving into the, into the bleachers or over the scores table or whatever. Like, it's great.

Shout out Juan. You're the best. We're all rooting for you. Keep going. I love him. One of my favorite teammates all time. No bullshit. Another pride of Mexico, another son of Mexico.

Great player, too. I mean, I love J. Eduardo. Eduardo. Eduardo. Yeah. The original. The original.

That's right. I mean, Chihuahua. Chihuahua's finest, baby. That's my God. That's my God, man. A great dude. That's a great dude. Great dude.

How many more years, Shade, do you, does the country of Mexico have until there's a gold medal in the Olympics? Like, how much, how much work? How long do we have? Where do we have? Oh, I don't we? We're right there. Like four years? Like 80, 84 max.

84 years max. We're right there, though. We got a G-League team, though. now. You see we got the fucking Capitans. Let's go, baby. You should be making more noise about this. Yeah. Hey, flex bombs for all that. All the Mexican basketball players, all the Mexican basketball right now.

All right. Flex bombs right now. Also, are the Aces won in the championship next year? I have my Aces shorts on right now. Asia's going to win another MVP, right? Is that what is going to happen right now? She's going to go nuts. There's no way you could watch the end of that game when they played Phoenix. A lot of Phoenix talk today.

They play Phoenix. Brittany blocks the shot at the end. Asia collapses on the court, just like she felt the weight of it. We watched her. I think we texted about this after the, when she went nuts in Game 5 to send them to the finals last year. You're like, like she's not, she's going after it now. Like she knows she can win a championship. You can't watch what happened in that game and be like, oh, she's coming for everybody's head next year.

everybody who stands in front of Asia Wilson next year will die by her sword. I guarantee it. I guarantee it. Start engraving their names on the trophy right now. Are you, are you, oh, you're guaranteeing a title. Are you guaranteeing an MVP for Asia Wilson right now? I will guarantee a finals MVP for Asia Wilson next year because that's what she's after. She got the other one.

It's fine. She got it already. She wants this one now. She wants the big trophy. Go get it. Let's go, man. Let's fucking go. Asia Wilson Aces, we out here.

I'm ready to fucking go. I've been teetering from Sparks to Aces and also Dallas Wings. But I think I'm in Vegas right now. I'm in Vegas. How good was Chelsea? How good was Chelsea Gray? What an addition. Chelsea, I didn't tell you this, but I remember watching Chelsea Gray.

I've told this story to Chelsea. I've told this thing on multiple platforms. But I saw Chelsea Gray, her senior year, at St. Mary's in Stockton. There was this talk of this girl that's going to Duke. I'm like, and they were playing against Berkeley High. And there's this talk about this girl going to do. I'm like, whatever, dog.

Like, okay, she's going to Duke, whatever, right? Okay, so she, there's a tip off. She gets the tip off, takes one dribble into half court, shoots it from half court, switch. Yes, yes. Then gets a seal, goes, runs straight to the same spot, two feet inside of half court, shoots it from the same spot, hits that motherfucker,

And I'm like, oh, shit, well, well, she's going to Duke. She's going to Duke. She's going to Duke. That's her whole existence. You saw what she put, she, she, they run in the play over and over again where they get her and it's like, Britney ends up, uh, gardener. And she just put Britney into a blender at the free throw line, pop, pop, and then pulled up. And she, Chelsea, every time she does the thing that she knows was cool, she goes down the court, like in a very, like backwards, like sort of strutting a bit. And you're like, all right, all right.

She's the fucking greatest. She's flowing right now. She has no need. She has not one bit of cartilage in either of her knees, and she's fucking bawling, bro. She's amazing. That was great. Another edition of Real Ones,

make sure you check out Shea's book, hip-hop, and other things. We will see you guys on Thursday. But first, make sure you listen to Real Ones, Mondays, and Thursdays. Make sure you listen to mismatch. Make sure you listen to group chat. Make sure you listen to The Answer. Make sure you listen to Black Girl Song Book with Who? Roger Bell.

Town Legend, Danielle Smith. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Rajabelle? The crestside clown, another legend of the Bay Area. We're in the motherfucking house, man. We'll see you guys on Thursday, hollered.