The Ringer NBA Show - Steph Curry’s Preseason Game-Winner, Jordan Poole’s Revenge Season, and James Harden’s Trade Request Antics | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Logan and Raja react to Steph Curry’s preseason game-winner against the Sacramento Kings, Jordan Poole dropping 41 points in three quarters, and whether or not both performances feel like statement games ahead of the regular season (2:58). Next, they discuss James Harden skipping 76ers practice and how his trade request has become a total distraction to the team (38:41). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (52:47). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout ringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer. And for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment. A guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings. And with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Raja Bill there. Thursday, real ones spent a long time since we said that so long that I forgot to remind Roger the new recording time and Raja was just sitting around on the thing. So it's my fault. We were going a little late. And by late I mean like 8.51 Eastern or Pacific time and here. How you doing, Ra? What's going on?

I'm good. Listen, I was just killing time, Manson, at the desk figuring out what I could procrastinate. on next like so crazy man i'm literally sitting here at the desk with shit to do no nothing but time because i'm assuming we got a half hour and and really finding other shit just surfing the web like i'm not whatever that is i need to do i'm just it's just constant procrastination so but i'm good other than that i'm good thanks that's that's literally me when i am writing any sort of draft or right or doing any sort of thing or doing anything that i just not ready to do like i I'll be on the YouTube rabbit hole something vicious.

Or I'll just, or I'll just, or I'll Google something. And then I'm like, no, I got to look this up. I got, it's my, I can't do it any other time. I have to do it right now because it's only going to take two minutes. And we're going to, and it winds up being two and a half hours of just. Yeah, I've got this. I can relate to that totally. And I'm, I'm in a place now.

I think I'm going to have to start leaving this phone for, for myself, from my own sanity. I'm going to start leaving it at the, like, the front door or putting it somewhere. because I can't even get through like a good, I love games. Saturdays, Sundays, you know, basketball, I just love sports, bro. I grow up loving sports.

And I find myself now like 30 minutes into something being like I missed all of it because I'm on his damn phone. No, it's been crazy. Ever since like I've been at the ringer, don't tell nobody, don't tell Justin Verrier. But like there be times where I just be just away from my phone watching sports now, bro, it feels great. Now that I don't got to be tied to just like,

you've got to be breaking news. You got to be doing all these things. I just watch sports be kicked back and relaxing, dog. Like, it's great. It's great to watch sports again. I got to get back to that, bro. I just got to curb the habit. It's becoming a little aggressive.

So that's my goal for the next couple weeks. You know what you got to do, Roger? Talk to me. You got to lock in, like, these two guys that we're about to talk about have done throughout the preseason. That's what you got to do. Let me paint the picture. You guys know the fucking vibes. So last night, some old friends just,

went off in two separate sides of the coasts. Jordan Poole, who I just wrote a story about that you can read on the ringer.com, just dropped 41 points of Madison Square Garden in three quarters, 29 of which were in the first half. And across the coast,

which is hilarious, Steph Curry hit a game-winning three-pointer against the Kings and did the night-night celebration. and in a preseason game. The funny part about this is I was at this game and smooth left at halftime because I said this is a boring-ass preseason game

I don't want to be here. I was like, bro, it was so bad. And honestly, I was talking to third Ikeye before the podcast and I was like, I'm still glad that I left. I'm still glad that I left even after all that stuff because it was, I cannot impress upon the listening to audience

is how boring this preseason. season game was. And it was, it was bad. But like, it made me think, like, there's two tracks of, you know, this story. There's the Jordan Pool, um, FU season that's about to come and commence. And then there's the warrior season where they're trying to figure out what they are going to do. Raja, I know we talk about, we don't talk about statements in the preseason. We know you made your statement against Michael Jordan. That is a recurring theme here. But if, Can statements be made during the preseason? And do you think that these two games in their own way are just statements from these two players?

Can statements be made in the preseason? Not really, Logan. But I guess if you put some context with it, like if you have a body of work that, like in Jordan Poole's instance, where we've seen him, you know, in flashes with Golden State look like this offensive player that, you know, I've said before on this pod, it looks like his brain works different. Like he creatively does things that it doesn't even look like anyone else in the league would be thinking about doing in that situation. Like he plays with this, man, this creativity, this kind of crazy offensively.

So you've seen those flashes. And for whatever reason, you know, all the circumstances surrounding Golden State last year, he couldn't really tap into that late in the season. But in that situation, if he's coming out this preseason and he looks freed and he looks empowered and he looks comfortable and he looks aggressive. I think you could, I think you could make a case for there being a statement made in the preseason. You know, generally speaking, I wouldn't say, hey, man, a guy is scoring in the preseason.

Let's look for him. But if you've seen this guy do it before, you know it's there for whatever reason it wasn't working at the end of the last season. Situationally, it didn't seem like a great bit. And now in this preseason, he's doing what he did last night, you know, along with, you know, other things. He's going to be a problem offensively this year. What that translates into for Washington as a team,

win and loss wise, I don't know. But freed to just have the ball in his hands and create, yeah, he's a problem. You know what I thought about when I was watching? I watched the highlights because I just, I will say this, that the Warriors game was weird because it was like a buzz about like, yo, what's Jordan doing? What's Jordan doing? Like, oh my good. Like, you know, because, you know, the East Coast games are like during West Coast games

pregame. So like, you're kind of just like, you're, you have an eye on the rest of the league, but like you could, you kind of get your new. about the rest of the league just from a buzz that's in the arena, right? And so to start the game, it was like, I think it was going into halftime. It was like, people just like, yo, you heard, you see what Jordan doing the first half? Like, what, you see that shit? And what I, but so that was the first thought that I had about like the Jordan pool experience

3,000 miles away from us. And then the second one was, was something that you say, Roger, very frequently on this pod where we talk about that there is a amount of points that needs to be scored on a given night for a basketball team right like just people have to score these points um and i was thinking about that with pool and not that he can't he can't score those points and he is a is a victim or is a person that is just taking advantage of the fact that there's just a finite amount of points to score like i think that he's a better player than just that but how does he get from the point of, yeah, I'm scoring points because I can to I'm scoring what we also talk about in this

podcast. I think the key for him is figuring out how to score in the context of winning, which is a totally different thing than we talk about. Right. It's the difference between empty calorie points and points that are that were like we see with Steph to bring it all the way back where it's consistently plays and points being scored that could that lead to winning. How does he get to that point? And what is the makeup that you have to have to get to that point? That's a really deep question.

Let's start by saying there's, you know, there are guys that come into the league that are penciled in as primary scores on championship level teams supposedly, right? Like, we identify them as this coming in. We're going to give them every opportunity to be this. They'll have to prove

that they can't do that, right? He doesn't fit that mold. Then there are guys that you don't really identify as that. You know, they're borderline guys. You're hoping they might, you know, materialize into that. Like, maybe they can develop. You know, they keep playing their way into that role.

And before you know it, they're like a one or a two, you know, on a good winning team. You didn't see that coming. And I don't know that he necessarily fits that mold, haven't been in the G-League and coming from where he came from. So then there's this small window of guys. And what you have to do when you're in this window or in this group of people is, you know, you're going to have to prove that over and over and over again that you can come from where you came from, which was no one thinking you were ever going to be

able to do that. You know, he proved it to some degree with Golden State that he could be a contributor, right, and be the offensive weapon from, from, you know, night to night, but maybe not every night, right? Because consistency is what we're ultimately talking about. Like, consistently, you have to be able to do that for you to be the number one. You know, Jordan's done it in the space of, and it is a pretty safe space of having Steph Curry, Clay, you know, multiple guys around him that, you know, if he's not cooking,

they got it. It's not a problem. Like, that's the pressure that is alleviated by having those guys around you. I don't know that I could put it into words. And so now, you know, he's trying to prove that he can take that ball and take this creativity and this bucket getting ability on a team. where he's the primary and do it over and over. So what you have to do then is, I think for a guy like Jordan,

you've got to be a little bit more physical because no one's shooting 55, 60% every night as a perimeter player in the NBA. I shouldn't say 55, but I'm 65. Like you're not shooting that every night over the course of 82. So you have to be able to supplement. You got to get to that free throw line, right? And trust me, the same way I say there are a certain amount of points

that have to be scored. there are a certain amount of fouls that have to be called for any given team. Now, if you're out there floating around on that perimeter jacking up 30-foot-3s, you're not putting it on the rough shoulders to have to make those calls. So as that primary, you've got to get a little more physical. You've got to get in there and supplement on those off nights. That's the difference between a 25-a-night guy in a lot of cases, Logan, and a 16-17-a-night guy. That 25-a-night guy is getting free throws to the degree that when he's not shooting well,

he can still maintain that average. Now, they're both really gifted scores, but that one guy who's going to say, hey, look, man, I'm three for 12 right now. This team needs me to have 25. It's second quarter. I don't foresee myself getting hot. I'm going to just start getting at the rack in a way that these refs are going to get me up to my average. Not on purpose. Don't get me wrong.

That's not what I'm saying. But I'm going to put the on the refs to make these calls, which will allow me to supplement this poor shooting night. A lot of that goes into being a primary number one score. And that's the space that I think Jordan is going to have to mature. into, right? Like, we know he can get hot and he can cook and he's got this ability to see the game in a way offensively that not a lot of guys see it. But if that jumpers not fall and if those little floaters, you know, things that look super cool in the highlights, if that's not going down, can you get it, can you get it out the mud? Can you get down in the, you know, whatever the dirty part of the game is that you would need to play, to get your team, maybe not even in a winning space, but just close enough for one of your teammates or yourself to help pull it out. Like that's, the primary's job. That's a number one scorers job. And that's a big difference than what he did in Golden State.

It's interesting because that it's not to say that I didn't already know that as a point of reference, but like it's crazy when you see every, at least wing score for sure. Like I'm not as well versed in Big Man and how they evolution their evolution is. But I think about a guy like James Hardin early in his career,

right? Like this is a definitely a comp because James Hardin was a six-man role in Oklahoma City before getting traded to Houston. And now, like, one of the first things that he did was get to the free throw line, not to say that he wasn't always a free throw line get to her. Like, that's, that was his MO in, okay, C. But in Houston, he just went to that to the max, right? Or, like, I think about a guy like Dwayne Wade, who that was one of the things that he was

great at. And I know Roger is looking at me and looking around like, Damn it, nightmare's guarding Dwayne Wade over that bullshit pump fakes and all those, right? And then Kobe's another example, right, of a guy that could just get to, like, I remember, I forgot. There's some video, but there was like one of the guys defending him would be, the annoying part about Kobe was he would be a guy that could, like, say he'd be like one of whatever to start a game, right? One of eight. He'd finished the game nine of 19, but then he'd also get to the free throw line in the second half, which would, drive people crazy.

So I do like when you say that, it's like, wow, I go back to those memories of those guys being able to do that. And that's going to be something that Jordan is going to have to figure out. Also, one of the other things that like, because I went to DC a couple weeks ago to talk to Jordan. And one of the other things that like I think that he has to figure out and also one of the things that he's trying to figure out is the leadership aspect of it. Oh, sure.

And figuring that part out, right? because he wasn't able to be a leader in Golden State. And not even for like all the reasons that we all know and that are all public, but more of the fact of he's always going to be looked at as a kid to that, that, that, that, uh, that locker room. So in this new locker room where he's just the one that has to have an, the experience and all these, these, these, um, he's supposed to teach now. He's supposed to figure out how to be able to do that.

and one of the, you know, maybe concerns that, you know, Golden State might have had about him being the franchise guys, is he going to be that leader? And is he going to step out of himself? Because the most important thing, and I want to get your opinion on this, the most important thing for a guy in Jordan's seat right now, it's not the scoring. It's not, it's maybe not even a free throw line stuff. It is evolving into the face of a franchise and the CEO of whatever that locker room is. is. And that's what the question that I have for him, especially as the wizards are not expected to win a lot of games. So how is he going to turn into that leader in face of a locker room? That's going to be the interesting part. Well, that's a great point. And maybe, maybe I misunderstood

the question, but you're, you're 100% right. Like, what I was talking about was more probably on the court. Like, how do you become that primary score in a situation where you're asked to do that in a winning capacity, but everything you just said is as if not more important than on the court. And that is, you know, you won't, there's no magic pill for that. There's just experience and learning from mistakes and trial and error. And, you know, it's just like any other walk of life or any other segment, you know, a population. Some people can get that. And some people can have those experiences and not learn from them. Some people learn real quick and figure it out and you only have to show them one time and they got it, right? And, you know, that person typically

figures it out and they're successful. And then other people, you know, you're like, dude, you're making that same mistake again. Like, this is the third time. Like, I shouldn't have to keep saying that to you. And so we'll find that out. We'll find that out. I think he's, I don't know him at all. I've never really even met him. He seems like an intelligent enough person. He seems, he seems, He seems thoughtful in a way. Like he clearly cares a ton about his craft and you don't become that gifted offensively without being a complete gym rat.

I've read about, as his dad, was his dad a coach and he was just in the gym all the time or he ran a gym or something like that. And so, you know, that DNA is good because that's kind of how it starts, right? Like let's come into Washington. Let's not like talk about it. Let's not be preaching in anybody

because we came from a place. Like, that's a turnoff. When you come in somewhere, or I felt it to be a turnoff, let me not speak for everybody. But when Logan came from a championship team to our team, and we might not have had that experience,

and the first thing Logan does is start running his mouth about how we did it over there and how we did it over here. Like, that turns me off, man. I don't want to hear that shit. Now, if I show up the first day, and I think I'm early, and I go to get in that gym,

and Logan's already out on that court, Well, Logan just showed me. Logan didn't tell me anything. Logan said, hey, I beat you all here. And I'm going to understand like that, okay, that's how we do it. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I think you go about it like that. I'm not coming here running my mouth and talking about being a leader and telling you

how it gets done on championship level teams. Let me put on. Let me show you guys how I comport myself. Let me be in this building before everybody. Let's hold myself to a higher standard than everybody. Let me make this coach feel comfortable in a space where he can be on my ass. if something goes wrong and hold me accountable in front of the team, which gives him legs to be able to do it with everybody else.

Like my skin isn't that thin. Like, go ahead. If you need to holl at me, do that. And I'll take it like a man, and I will learn the first time. You won't have to tell me two and three times. And when the rest of a team that may not necessarily come from a winning environment starts to see that, I mean, you are leading by example. And that's how you lead.

Like, no one wants to hear you bumping your gums and talking that shit. Let's get out there and do it. You know, he'll play well, but everything you said is correct. You know, sitting in front of a microphone after a game when you didn't win and having the ability, even if you don't fully believe it was on you, to say, I got to be better. Do you know what I mean? And shield a Logan Murdoch or Rajah Bell from the shitstorm of media that might come down on them if you throw it on them. Do you know what I mean?

Or shield your coach who may or may not be trying to figure out, you know, the ropes of being an NBA coach from the criticism that may come if you lob that over there to them. Like put that on you in a way that people get that. They look around and they know you didn't have to do that. Teammates know that that wasn't like something that someone asked you to do. Like you, you, you fell on that grenade. There was, I was watching this Marshaun Lynch interview. It was on Club Shea She. It goes right to what your point was. I don't know if you saw this clip, but it was basically talking, Marcian was basically talking about like one of his first practices at Cal, right?

And Jeff Tefford, the coach at the time, he was, he was, this was a team, the Cal team when Aaron Rogers was on the team. And so Marshaun comes into, he comes into practice. And Jeff Teffers was like, all right, freshman, let me see what you got. Like, let me see what you're about to do, right? And, um, Marshaun, they call it 24 power. I'm getting into your bag right now. Yeah.

Rather, they call it 24 power. And, uh, I, the way it seems, it seems like he ran like a 25 power. He went the wrong way. And Aaron Rogers like gave him a, gave him the ball like, like gave him the ball like behind the back, right? Because he made a mistake.

Right. Marsha goes for a touchdown, but like his coaches are in his ass. Like, yo, what the fuck? Like you ran the wrong way. Woo-woo. And Aaron Rogers out of nowhere goes, yo man, that was my fault.

That was my bad. Like, no, that was my bad. And then even the coaches like, what are you talking about? Aaron? like, A. Rod, what are you talking? He's like, no, that was my bad. Like, I messed up.

that up. And Marshaw was like, that was so big for him. You think Marciaun is missing a blitz pickup for Aaron Rogers after that, bro? No. He's not. He's going to do whatever he can to hold that dude down. Not only is he not giving up a blitz pickup. If you need anything in Oakland is good. Like, if you need anything around here, it's all good. I got you, bro. Yeah, on top, on top of that. But that's what you're, I mean, that's leadership, right? That's, that's, that's the understanding of the, the position that you hold within an organization and the responsibilities of that position and trying to live up to those so that everyone else can live up to their responsibilities within their positions, right? And the praise, the money and all of that isn't always equal. And quite

frankly, the responsibility for things that go right or wrong isn't always equal either. And the leaders that understand that, I played with dudes, trust me, Logan, I won't say names. I play with guys that were great in that space. And I played with guys who wanted all to bread, all the touches, all the everything. But if anything went wrong, it was your fault. And that's not a, that's not a fun teammate to play with, you know? Yeah, it's interesting because we're talking about leadership. And I do want to bring this back to go and a state on their end, right? Because they do have great leaders and they do have established leaders. But I think it's a, it's a different way because they are about,

whereas Jordan is going to have to figure out how to build a culture. They're tasked with sustaining a culture. And they, I think that as we evolve, it's going to, I can't wait to see how we dissect Golden States leadership aspect, but I think we do need to acknowledge just the differences in how they have to do it. Even in regards, I think Jordan's a great case study in this and by extension, Kevin Durant, where you have a championship team and a championship striving team, it's much harder to maintain leadership in that aspect, or maybe it's a different type of leadership.

It's hard to build culture in a place, but to sustain culture is a hard thing. I know from covering it in the locker room, Raja, and just like the level of egos that clash and all of these different things, right? But why is it, like, you know what you've seen like throughout last year with Golden State. How hard is it to sustain when you have already done so much and you're, you're, you're trying to evolve into a new generation. How hard is it to sustain that leadership when, because there was such a divide last year with just the,

with Draymond and by, and then the young guys, right, because of what happened. And it forced people to, to choose sides in a matter that they really just didn't want to choose sides on. But that's just an example of how you can, of a different type of leadership. but how do you like if you can try to mitigate that right like how did because even the spurs

weren't great at it long term right how do you what is the the utopian world how do you make it right i don't have i don't have a great answer for that um but i i think the ideal situation for being able to keep a culture alive and sustain it for a long time is to stagger your your talent in a way. It doesn't have to be generational talent, but you have to have people in the building that the baton can be passed to. So, so,

you know, you can't have all your talent, all of your breadwinners and talent aging out at the same time. So they all kind of fizzle into not being like the, the best players on the team at the same time in a way that they haven't been able to raise anyone to take that baton and continue championing the culture, if that makes sense. This is kind of convoluted on lost.

and thought. But the point is, like, I want to have a Logan Murdoch who's been here for seven or eight years. He's in his prime. And then I get a young, you know, Rajabeld that comes up. Logan grooms him for, for a while. He understands what it's all about. Like, I get it. I've seen Logan operate in this space. I've waited my turn. And now Logan starts to go on the back end of his career, but I'm coming into my prime. So I'm keeping the standard alive in a way. You know, it could be a few of us. But you're keeping that talent staggered in a way because what happens that that allows you to, you know, keep culture alive when you get an older player, you know, and I used to have this argument, you know, to some degree in Utah when I was there with Tyrone

Corbyn. He wanted me to be a culture guy, drive the culture, right? And you could do your best in that space. And he always misunderstood what I was saying. I think to some degree the club did because they thought that I was. saying this because I wanted to play more. It's not what I was saying. I knew who I was as a player at that point.

But I'm not playing is my point. I can only drive culture so much. These dudes know they're better than me. Like, they see it every day in practice. Do you know what I mean? So they're kicking my ass. So there's only so much I'm going to be able to give them. Now, it can be really sage advice, really timely advice,

and it can still have real value. But I can't be the overall leader. And it's not because you won't play me. It's because I'm not good enough to be anymore. So you got to find that in people that are out there putting on and playing in a way that's really contributing to wins and losses. They've got to do the majority of the leading. And then your vets like me and, you know, it was Earl Watson at the time,

like the guys that are sitting over there playing a few minutes a game or maybe not playing at all, we get in where we fit in as leaders. Like we're, we tighten up the nuts and bolts. We come through with the wrenches and, and we make sure it's all locked down tight, but we can't be building.

We're not building it anymore. I think, you know what's funny? And there's a quick aside. You know what I think when you say that? I'm thinking about the Grizzlies this year. And I think like, I'm sure we'll talk about this on Monday with Beck,

like just during our preview episode, but just like, Derek Groves is only going to, and we'll go back to the topic at hand, but like Derek Groves is only going to be able to drive culture so much. You know, like Mark is smart. definitely plays, but that's the situation where you need your top dogs to be leaders.

And that's, all I have to say, Derek Rose at this point in his career can only drive culture so much, bro. Like, you got to have it from the right guys. One other thing, though, is just get it back to Adela State and where you, now they have Chris Paul there. And that is a, that is a situation in which. To your point about, you know, you have to groom a young person in that regard, the warriors failed. So they have to pivot and get a veteran in default.

What is it? How hard is it? And I really am just asking this as a real just observer. How hard is it for a veteran player would still tread left on his tires in this competitive-ass environment? and you see a young guy who is brash and says, I'm about to go take that baton. Like, I'm going to go do it. Why is that always like,

is that like a generational difference? Like that's what you have to overcome when you're saying, yo, man, we got to groom these new guys because these do guys come. No matter what generation you're in, there's always new guys. There's always this new generation, these little pipsqueaks that think they know everything and they don't know shit, right? But how do you overcome that? because not only if the Warriors not been able to overcome that,

the Spurs haven't been able to overcome that. Like they couldn't do that with Kauai as great as they were. You know, there was always the last generation versus this generation. I just don't know how you even overcome that when you do. Because with the guy, like I'm really surprised that the Warriors got a title considering how toxic that locker room was. Yeah, that's a, that's a really interesting. Look, first of all, not all great talent wants to lead.

Yeah. do because Kawhi don't want to lead? Like, I think he showed you that. It's not even a knock on him. That's who he is. Like, some personalities aren't interested in really leading. And so, you know, if you get this generational talent that isn't interested in leading, a lot of cases that talent doesn't want to follow either.

And I've always said, that's the scariest kind of player for me. Where he's so good, you know what I mean, that, you know, you can't, like, out play him or out working. Like, he's just doing it. He's got you beating all those areas. he is so he's better but he doesn't you know so he's not following but he's not leading he's not taking all those gifts and and like leading the troops like that's a really weird place to be in and so I think in situations like that um you know that comes from outside the locker room you know it comes from the coaches offices it comes from the you know the executive offices from ownership

how to do that like I don't have I don't have the necessarily the right answer for that but that's when your that's when your your real leadership has to get involved and and drive culture in whatever capacity and whatever you know they can and whatever shade your culture is kind of colored in like they've got to do that when you know to sustain and keep the younger players and the younger talent and the ones that are being groomed understand and what it looks like until one of them because inevitably one of them will be a leader you just got to find him You got hope he's good enough as a player to be able to really have some gravitizing that locker room and lead. It takes a special kind because it's just so hard, right?

And like, especially in GoTo State's era where, you know, they have three leaders, bro. They have Steph, Drain and Clay, who are these guys that are just not only leaders, but it's like pillars of this organization, right? Like, you got to, they got to have some rope and, like, bring other people into the fold and be like, no, like, it takes a conscious thing that it's hard to do. So I do want to ask like I've seen a little bit of gold and said I'm not sure how you've seen how much you've seen this preseason of them I I'm thinking of my guy Tim Calcombe. He's a he's a big type columnist in the Bay Area and we and him have this running thing of like is it going to work with Chris Paul right? Is it going to and he's of the mind like yeah it's going to work. I am a bit more skeptical right like as you know as we've seen on this podcast and I am sometimes itching,

inching towards Tim's point of view on this of like, oh, it could work because like, I remember I watched the first couple of games. I watched the first home opener against the, the Lakers in the preseason. And then there's parts where you see, oh,

there's fucking three Hall of Famers on the floor. Like, there's Chris Paul passing it to Steph Curry passing it to Clay Thompson for a wide open three, right? Like these guys are some of the smartest basket, Chris Paul is one of the smartest minds to ever touch a basketball floor, right? And then you bring Draymond into this, who's also, no matter what you say about him, is one of the smartest guys to ever be on a basketball floor, right?

And so you talk yourself into these things. And then there's other times where I'm like, yeah, it's Chris Paul, but he's 38 years old. Like, he looks old. He does look old as a thing. I haven't wrapped my head around how this is going to work. do you where are you at even going into you know we're we're less than a week into the the season where do you see it going at this moment are you doing the same ebbs and flows that i'm doing right now yeah i'm i mean i don't even know if i just completely tell you i have no idea i don't i don't know

i typically intend to think that really good basketball players that are all really cerebral if you put them on a floor together they'll figure it out right like and so from a from a from on the court, how do we get down and how to play with each other? I think I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. They figure it out. Now, the age is an issue. The injury history is an issue. Availability could be an issue.

And what I can't quantify or kind of figure out, like Chris Paul is a leader. He's led everywhere he's been. It's kind of been his way. They've, you know, he's preached the culture and led the culture and the drive. And so I can't figure out, and I don't know, and this will only reveal itself as they get into the season, whether, you know, when he goes into that situation, he can take a step back and just kind of fit into what's going on. And that's an easy thing to do when things are going well. When things are going well, again, I'm the new guy. I fit in.

Like, I'll do it. I got it. Here's what we're doing. This is what's going to lead to wins and losses. it only really rears its head, you know, if it were to rear its head, it would be when things went wrong. And does he then feel like, well, shit, I don't have a patience to sit here and do it y'all's way. Let's get it. Let's get it my way. Let me tell you how I think we should do it. And I don't know, I just know he's a leader and he's a very strong personality.

It doesn't mean that that's going to happen. But I know those two things. He's a leader and he's a strong personality. and how that plays out in that locker room will remain to be seen. I tend to think they figure it out on the court. But I don't know, Logan, honestly. I mean, the long answer to your short question is I don't fucking know. Yeah, man, there's so many questions with this, right? Like, even just the dynamic of, and I don't know if I said this on the pot.

I may have said it on the pot, but it's even the dynamic of like, let's be real, you NBA players are fucking ridiculously competitive, bro, and just so many different ways, right? Like, it's just in life. And my concern, like, I'm only speaking for myself and how I see the situation. If you have a guy that you have continuously, like, had a rivalry with and beat, right? Also, you guys are competitive and also you motherfuckers are petty, right? Like, if it goes wrong, you guys, you guys aren't afraid to talk some shit.

But, like, they see a guy like Chris Paul where he, he has always been an adversary for the warriors. Like from the beginning stages, you go back to, like, there's a lot of coming of age against Chris Paul, even like in 2015 where Steph like shakes a shit out of them, right? And like, then the warriors go into being this behemoth that they are, right? And then you go into when they play against,

the Warriors play against Houston. And then they play against, just play against Chris Paul teams and continuously beat him and rebel and beating Chris Paul. So like if it, And I say all that to say in a locker room where if you have a disagreement and you'd be like, yeah, motherfucker, that's why I beat you and woo, woo. And you're like, whoa, right? Because that is something that definitely happens.

And it's going to be tricky when if shit goes bad, the blame game. And we know and all that's my concern about this locker room that if it does go back to it, they, they will be adversary. It's, it's cool right now because it's preseason. But if it gets to January and it's not working out the way it happens. like I am just concerned about that happening in the locker room. I think those are, listen, I think those are valid points. Those are valid points and valid concerns. We just won't.

It doesn't mean they have to happen, but the potential is there. Like, who knows? And so we'll have to wait and see. I also, look, you didn't, you know, just from on the court, like I thought that they needed to get younger and more athletic in some of those areas. Do you know what I mean? And so, you know, if I'm keeping it a buck, that didn't check either one of those boxes either.

So, so, you know, we'll just have to see. Yeah. No, it's going to be. And they have a, they have a tough schedule to start too, man. They got Phoenix at home to start. And then they got to go on the road to Sacramento where, you know, Sack is waiting to kick their ass,

especially after last year, you know, and it's Sacks, it's Sacks home opener. The beam will be lit. Yo, I was in Sack a couple days ago. And they still have. light the beam like banners all through downtown Sacramento bro the holiday in off the freeway still has light the beam so like i'm like yeah let's do it like i like it basketball energy and sack when they are good is it it is a whole it's a whole vibe it's it also like it's i think

i've appreciated it more now that i'm older like i spent some time in sack as a kid like even during i remember when being in sack when robert or he hit the three to beat the kings And just being like, like just, but I still didn't appreciate just how much pride Sack has for like a team. And I think it even going to last year's postseason kind of just really sealed it for me. Because it's one thing when you're a kid to see it. But when you're an adult, you have some context and you have context of how the city dynamics are and stuff. Yeah. And you could see that.

Bro, like they and also against the warriors, if the warriors are good. And just the dynamics of Sack versus the Bay Area, like, fuck you. You know, like, I mean, we got love for y'all, but like, fuck you. You guys are the big city. We all talking and all that shit, sticking y'all chest out. Like, there is that in there as well. Like, it has the potential to be a little rivalry. And, like, also, to your point about athleticism, the king's got some athleticism, dog.

They got some kids there that are going to run you out of the building. They have one of the fastest guards in the league. All I just say, the Warriors' schedule is really tough. Like, you got KD first opening night. And then you got to go on the row with them, with them kids. And they're trying to run you out the gym. And they think you had a fucked up from last year.

It's going to be an interesting start to the season is all I'm going to say for the Warriors. Wizards, we kind of know what's going to happen with the Wizards with the Warriors. Like, it's going to be fascinating to watch them. For sure. All right. Take a quick break.

We're going to talk about, we're going to talk about some messy shit. And we are back. This is the messy hour. So let's get even more messy. Let's talk about James Hardin, who is the only player to have a trade request rollout, like multiple rollouts about how he's going to wreak havoc on his teammates, the team that he's around. And the latest twist, he just said, I'm not coming to practice. I'm just not going to come to practice.

I'm not going to. We have a plan of trying to start the season, and he just says, I'm going to ghost y'all. And I'm going to just be not a good teammate. Ramona Shelburne on ESPN. So she has a quote say this is only the beginning of what he plans to do here after not showing up to practice. And honestly, we know all of James Hardin's classics for back of the day.

We know Ramona's not bluffing when she says this. We know that James isn't bluffing by doing this. What the hell, Raja? Let's go through all these ways. How does this affect a basketball team? And is this going to turn out well? in the way to James thinks is going to turn out. I have no idea about the latter part of that question.

As far as the basketball team, I think it's really interesting. It could be so, like, at some level, if we're on a scale of 1 to 10, from level 1 to 7, let's say, it's a distraction. If we're on that kind of crazy and messiness, right? Like, it's a distraction for the team. Like, it's a constant conversation. You got Joel Embed up there. you know, having to answer questions about while James Hardin isn't at practice.

Guys aren't really understanding what's going on. Like that, it can be a distraction, right? That's level one to seven. You get the 7.5 to 10. And I can make a case where people are like, yo, that's just a fucking side show, bro. I ain't got nothing to do with us. We're going to close ranks.

He's on the outside now. And we ain't worried about that shit. Let's, let's, we'll, it'll be a rallying cry for us as, as the group that's going to, you know, go out there and try to win without him. Because clearly he don't give a shit about it. about us, do you know? And so I'm not sure where they're at. I don't know if it's 6.9. I don't know if it's 5.8. I don't know if it's 7.7. But it's it's definitely not a four. Like he's creeping. So right now I couldn't tell you like it seems to be a little distracting

right now. It's relatively like, I mean, it's not early in this because it went on all summer. But like we're still in, we're still in preseason. So as far as the season goes, it's relatively early. But it's quickly approaching like, look, we don't give a fuck about it. that. Don't ask us about that shit anymore, man. We're going to close ranks. He's now on the outside looking in. They'll do with him what they do with him, but it's not going to be a distraction for us. If anything, it's going to, you know, forge a fire in our belly to win and prove everybody, you know, that we can get this done without him. And they better get to that pretty quick, because I think he's showing his ass in a way where he's already telling you, like, I don't,

I don't give a damn. I'll tear this whole shit down to the studs. It's unfortunate. It's really unfortunate and it's and it's disappointing. And I'm not sitting here acting like I was a choir boy and, you know, I was always this, you know, good soldier and you asked me, I wasn't always that. I was sometimes, but I could get sideways and prickly and you were, you were a shitbird? Were you shitbird? Yeah. I mean, at the end, I don't think I've said this. I don't think in Utah I was the best version of me at the end. Now, I don't think they were the best version of an NBA franchise. I think they were being run like a fucking an AAU squad, quite frankly. But you know, I couldn't control that.

I could control me. And I did not act like the best version of myself. I was not a professional. So again, I'm not sitting up here like, you know, but he's on a whole other level now. Yeah. You're just, you're not going to do what I say I would like you to do.

And so I'm just not going to show up. I'm just going to treat this like, I mean, that's, have you ever seen a player fucking put, do a trade service through bottle service? Have you ever seen that? Like,

that's like a, that's like a such an innovative way to fucking. to make a trade. You're a professional. You're a professional. Look, I've told this story before. I know it's different. But Kevin O'Connor, after Tyrone Corbyn and I had our moment in

Philadelphia, and they sent me back to Utah, right? Kevin O'Connor called me and when they got back from the trip, right? And he said, I guess, this is verbatim. He said, I guess you're going to come in and say you want to be traded. And I said, no, I'm not going to tell you that. I was like,

you know, I was, that was not right what I did. Like I was, you know, going to apologize for it. You know, I'm an adult. I can get past it. I'm not asking. I can work with Tyrone Corbyn if he can work with me. And they told me that that was going to be able to happen. Now they lied to me, right?

Like Tyrone Corbyn clearly wasn't past that. And they made it their mission to just bury me and kind of end my career. But I was still there every day. Yeah. as a professional that saw what was happening to him and understanding my part in it and what I did and now these are the ramifications of it, I was still there.

Yeah. Because it's my fucking job. When I think about the James Hardin one, first of all, if I'm Philly, and I know they're in active, or at least, you know,

it's reported that they are in negotiations with the clippers that send them on a trade, right? Like Sam Mamick, friend of the show, has some reporting on that, just that they are still in negotiations. But my thing is this, bro,

at this point, if you're Philly, send his ass home. You better than me, bro. Just send his ass home. You better than me. I would do that too. I send his ass. I find him. Whatever, whatever, whatever was in the league. I'm, hey, okay, cool. All right, bye. How about this? How about this? This is how it ends for you. I mean, that's what happened. That's what, yeah, this is how it ends for you.

You can get the Utah Rajabelle treatment. This is how it ends. My boy, hey, good for you. You showed your ass. This is how it's going My thing is this, though, and this is a real question, Roger. Where is James Harded in three years? Like, there's a world where he has burned so many bridges that people are just like, fuck this. I'm not paying no money for this. Maybe I'll give him the mid-level, but like, I'm not paying for this fucking ego in the locker room. I'm not doing this.

I'm not paying 40-something million for this headache, bro. Fuck that. I'm not going to double down. Well, 1,000 percent, but I would argue in three years with what he showed you in terms of how he takes care of himself and what he does. I mean, I don't even know that he's, I don't know that he's not, but I wouldn't put good money on him being in great shape to be able to help your team in a way that he's worth the risk. He's done like two practices this whole time.

And it's not like he's been the model of like work ethic and consistency. He left to go back to Houston. There's a lot of, there's a lot of great establishments and a lot of great things to do in Houston, not of which none of which that I'm thinking of involve a gym and the University of Houston, especially when you're flying in and out. Like, you're not working out. So even here, is he going to lock in? It's just, it's so, it's wild.

I'm so angry about it and I get so emotional because I'm really, I am disappointed. I'm, I'm disappointed. And I don't know the behind closed doors conversations that he had and promises that were made. And if you guys really took advantage of him in that way, then shame on them too. But I just, I don't know that. So I'm only coming of a place, I'm only coming from a place where, you know, as a former athlete, you sign a contract, you play it out to the best of your ability. And you can ask for certain things and you can and you can be disgruntled and so on and so forth. But, but you can't make a mockery of it.

Do you know what I mean? Like, and he's making a mockery of this thing right now. And I'm disappointed in him. I'm disappointed. And I'm telling you, like, maybe that's why it's not maybe. I can never be a GM because I get emotional about it. I'm trying to spite you. That's so funny, bro.

That's what Kevin, that's what Kevin O'Connor. That's what Kevin O'Connor was on at the end. I told you, I've said this before, bro. He definitely, like, it was, like, it was, like, it was, and not just me, because I tell my story all the time. But I've said this before. When he traded Darren Williams after the shit that happened with Jerry Sloan, I was sitting, like, in those old,

you used to have those old silver bullet hot tubs. and around the edges of the silver bullet is like a wooden platform so you could sit there and just put your legs in the hot tub. And he had traded Darren in Dallas. Darren's hometown. Darren and I are sitting next to each other

on the couch in the training room. Brian Zettler, Gary Briggs, Darren, myself, and we're reading ESPN, like the ticker go across. This is Darren Williams got traded. I looked at Darren like, oh-oh. He looked at me like, what? And so he got up. That's how we found out he got traded.

The next night we got a home game. I'm old. I got my feet. in the in the in the in the like world pool like trying to get my calves warm and I'm sitting there and here comes here comes uh here comes Kevin O'Connor's and he walks by and he he looked at me and he said uh he said sometimes you get what you deserve alluding to like trading there and uh jersey was bad jersey was bad but he like wasn't in the meeting i wasn't in the meeting but Darren was a good player there may have been some other opportunities to move there

into some other more desirable places. Oh, good player. At a point in time, he was considered one of the best two point guards in the league. Didn't sound like Kevin O'Connor's, like, like, didn't sound like he was really looking for the best deal as much as he was looking for somewhere to make, make, make there and pay the price.

Send his ass to Siberia, bro. Like, that's what that's really, what it is. Bro, that's tough, man. That is just tough. Like, if just the league is just like a mirror to the world, man. like sports a jitter or a dog but i say all that to say is like this is a relationship's build business no matter what like there's going to be a certain time when james hardin is long old and retired where he's going to want some love or he's going to want some love from a team he's

going to want to like show people like hey remember tell his kids or maybe whoever to go out the good old days and there's going to be a time where he's going to be like yo man i want to go back to houston and i'm sure he can go houston's a bad example but like he could like and i'm sure time heals all, but get with me on this. There's going to be a time where he's going to want that loving, and it's not going to be what he thinks because of all of the stuff that transpired before then. Now, maybe he'll get it in Houston because Houston is a case where they do have a special bond in that city, and he won a lot of games in that city.

But just in the grand scheme of things, it's not going to play out the way he does because he is, everybody can see he's moving as wrong as he, he's. as he possibly can. And it's not going to end well in the grand scheme of things because even just how you strategically or lack of strategy went through this. Like, bro, you could have just, even if you didn't have to opt in, even if you felt some type of way, why you opt in? Like, you could have gotten.

There's been a way he could have handled this where he could have got bredded and the Sixers could have traded him away and it could have been all good. But the way that he has been doing it and the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the pattern that has persisted, it's not going to go the way he thinks it's going to go. Yeah, that's why I'm saying, man, the way he, I mean, to defend him, right? And I mean, I don't even know how I can make my mouth up to do this,

but I'm going to do it. You're going to play devil's advocate as you have been, the devil's advocate corner. Well, because of just what you just said, like with the ability to get what he wanted right in front of him and opting not to do that, that's so strange. And it leads me,

and then on the back, side of that coming out and saying I was lied to and really going in in a way like we've seen him want to be out of places but like he's this is even a little extra for him is it not like like I'm not leads me to believe that maybe he was hoodwinked a little bit like I don't but that's what I'm saying I don't know those conversations none of us do right but you know that that's that's not a rookie mistake for for James Hardin Logan that's not like my first time around the contractual like a rodeo where I make this mistake and I'm like oh damn man I won't ever do that again like that's a season vet in terms of you know

extensions and contracts and you know trades and all of that type of shit like you don't make a mistake like that typically well the way that he's done it right is like here's the thing that I think even we forget to realize even in this like new genzy culture or just in general like these actions stick with you bro like you did an international trade request where even during a adidas event where you have international press there talking about how you want to get traded and how Dale Mori is a liar and all these things. That will always stick with you.

That clip will always be associated with you. You go into a club and the antics that you think and you see that, that's going to always be with you. That video will always be. It's going to be hilarious and it's always going to be with you. You are, and people are always going to see that. And so for the amount of, I don't know James Hardin, but a lot of his actions seem a little short-sighted to like, I'm just going to get to this point where I can get a trade

because the immediate thing I want is out of here. So I'm going to do, I'm going to burn it down. But like, that may work in the interim, but it's not going to work when you down the line when people, like when all of your resume is just out there and you're done and you can't change anything. When your career is all done and you can't change how your career went, that's when you're going to be like, fuck, why don't I do that? That was so stupid. That's what I think is going to happen.

Well, I'll just sit here and be disappointed. And I hope it works out for both sides. I'll just be disappointed. All right. Let's get to ruin the week, which is presented by Ringer TikTok. So make sure you go to the Ringer NBA on TikTok and go check all of that out. Okay, check all the vibes out. There's Real Ones clips there.

There is clips for all the Ringer NBA shows. Austin Rivers out here doing numbers. Shout out to Austin Rivers. They're twice a week as well. I just saw it on Twitter. They are now Tuesdays and Friday. So shout out to them being on the feed twice a week. Good job, Austin.

Anyways, let's get to Real One of the Week. I might be taking your Real One of the Week. Roger, I don't know. But I'm going to go with the Las Vegas Aces, bro. I'm going to go. And I knew you were going to do it. That's why I went first because I am an asshole. But listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, the amount of vindication.

No, you know what? I'm going to go with Asia, motherfucker, Wilson. I'm going to go with Asia Wilson. Okay. Because the fact that she was robbed of the MVP had better stats, had a better record, and a better overall team all season. And we all got Hoodwink, bamboozled, and led astray, right? And to go in and win that shit in New York without the God Chelsea Gray, it was a beautiful scene.

Shout out Sidney Colston. Shout out to all the staff record label and their motherfucking crew. What's Sidney say, we got dogs on this team. Okay. The Las Vegas Aces. Your 2023 champions. Real one of the week. Let's fucking go.

Oh, man. I don't even know where you did it. I know you had it. I did. You were ready to go. Can I just call? Can I just co-sign it, dog? That was a great, it was a great win, dog.

And it has all the characteristics of shit that you like at a team. Yeah, I want to co-sign on that. I mean, I have a lot of, I have a lot of places I could go for, you know what? I'll do one. I'll do one. And then this will be like the Las Vegas aces were by real one. But since I'm on the spot and I don't, I don't really want to piggyback. I'll just go with Baton Rouge.

I go with Baton Rouge, Louisiana. And, again, everyone here knows, like, if you've been listening that my son is a young football player and his recruitment has started and so on and so forth. And I show love to all those teams that show love for D straight up. Like, my fandom as a kid is out the window now, right? Like, so I love what he loves. If they love him and he loves him back, I'm cool. So this particular team kind of falls into the category that shows him love and he shows them love back. But it's not to marginalize any other team.

But the city of Baton Rouge, we went there this past weekend. It was LSU football, and they did a great job. And it was live. But I'm not going to give them necessarily the real ones. I'm going to give it to the city of Baton Rouge, which was bananas, Logan. Like, I went to Baton Rouge on a recruiting visit way back in the day, like in 1994. But again, like you said earlier in the pod, like things are a little different when you're an adult and you see them from the adult lens versus the kid lens. Yeah.

bro was crazy man that place it took us it it was it was insanity man it was insanity they played auburn there's 100,000 people just tailgating damn not even in the damn stadium bro it just tailgating it is nothing like major college football there's nothing on this planet like major division one no not even division one i'm talking about major college fucking football there's a difference because you see cow berkeley is is d1 But it ain't shit to when you go down to SoCal and go to a USC game. There's nothing like it. Right.

And that's on the West Coast. So I can only imagine what it's like in the SEC, bro. Like, it is just, oh, my God. It is a matter of like immense pride because you, especially like a city like Baton Rouge, man, it's overlooked, all the things. But they fucking love their tigers. And it's not, this is what I love about LSU. And it's similar to I know about like USC in L.A where you don't even have. to go to the school to love it, bro.

No, everybody wearing LSU gear. Everyone. It is the driver that brings that community together, bro, and I can only imagine how turned it was. Go tigers. Now, see, you turned it into LSU centric, man. Like, you turn it. I said it. You didn't do it. I did it.

I did it. You didn't do it. Fair not. It was lit. The views expressed by Logan Murdoch have no bearing on what Roger Bell thinks or insane. I'm just piggybacking on what LSU. I went, I got caught up in the propaganda. It has nothing to do with him. But it wasn't lit though. It was

crazy, bro. It was crazy. Oh, man. All right. That has been an addition of our first Thursday Real ones at the season. We'll be back Monday with Howard. Motherfucking Beck. Yo, people have been talking it's been a little buzz. I've been getting a lot of people

talking about the Beck's edition to the pod, bro. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Motherfucking Mondays are back. In the meantime, make sure you check out again, ringer TikTok. You know the vibes. All our millennial listeners, all our millennial real ones, all our Gen Z real ones,

tap in. We will talk to you guys very soon. Holla, bye.