The Ringer NBA Show - Summer League Observations With Ben Golliver | Weekends with Wos

Episode Date: July 10, 2022

Wos is joined by the Washington Post’s Ben Golliver to discuss what they’ve seen from Paolo Banchero, Chet Holmgren, and Jabari Smith Jr. They then discuss some off-court drama and speculation they’ve seen at the NBA Summer League. Host: Wosny Lambre Guest: Ben Golliver Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, and welcome to a golf podcast unlike any other. This is Fairway Rowland on the Ringer podcast network. I am your starter. Joe House every week on Fairway Rowland. It is myself and our PGA tour correspondent on the ground, Nathan Hubbard, talking all things, professional golf, amateur golf, amateur betting, professional betting, amateur drinking, professional drinking by Birdie Buddies. If you want to hit them straight out there,

please check out Fairway Rowland every week, available on Spotify. Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to a Summer League edition live from Las Vegas. It's weekends on the Ringer NBA podcast network, and I'm joined by one of my dear friends, one of the best in the biz, Ben Goliver of the Washington Post

spending those Bezos bucks out here in Vegas what's going on, Goliver? Not too much. Hey, when you agreed to do the Sundays with Waz, did you already circle the Summer League Sunday and just like, uh-oh, uh-oh, we're going to have to tape this thing well afternoon

after you can pull yourself together after the strip shenanigans on Saturday night, right? Listen, I don't even need to be in Vegas to make those calculations. I promise you. But, man, thank you for coming on to the show. I'm happy to have you on today, Ben, because as you explained to me, you are an NBA basketball degenerate. You are one of the few prominent media members who will do all 10 days in the desert every single day of Summer League.

You are going to be at the trophy presentation. this is incredible. Can you just briefly explain to people? I know why I love Summer League. Can you tell people why you love Vegas Summer League so much? Well, I was going to say, I saw a wise man tweet yesterday that Summer League is the best NBA holiday. I think that was you, right?

Yes, it is. Even above the NBA finals. Yeah. So I might disagree with you because I really love the NBA finals. You know me, I'm a win connoisseur, so I love to see basketball at the highest level. I got you. That's not what's happening here. happening at the Thomas and Mac today.

No. But I have a huge soft spot for it because I think like probably a lot of your media brethren is the way in, right? I mean, this was one of the first big events I was able to cover when I was first covering the NBA back 2007, 2008, and you just watch this event rise year after year

and just all the goofy stuff that has happened over the year. I mean, you know, Lonzo showing up and changing shoes every single game. LeBron's sitting courtside. Zion has a dunk and then all of a sudden we have an earthquake. They're retiring Nate Robinson's jersey. It's just the goofiest place.

And then now what you get is the second level fans trying to dissect which executives are talking to Woj and which trades are going to come. It's amazing. And then every NBA star now feels like an obligation or actually like it's to validate, to show up and validate the event and actually kind of get some of the shine from the event. Correct me if I'm wrong. Did Kyrie Irving, who obviously wants to be talked about right now, did he choose

Chet Holmgren's summer league debut because he knew it would have the highest ratings to get the most people talking and I kind of think he did yesterday was so it's just it's a carnival man

that's why I like it and it's also for the diehards and to me that's what it's all about when guys are showing up in like Troy Murphy jerseys from 15 years ago those are those are the real ones to me dude I love a couple of aspects

I love catching up with our colleagues in the media just people you haven't seen in a while sort of getting scuttle butt talking about different things because like you know you can have your own opinions but it's dope to get different perspectives

from the people you respect the most when it comes to this stuff and then like I'm walking through the Thomas and Matt concourse and I see Alan Houston taking a picture with like two of the happiest kids

in the world. I'm just like this only happens at Summer League and nowhere else, no other it doesn't happen at All-Star like that it doesn't happen at the finals And I think the thing about the finals is like, yes, we're at the finals is the summit of the sport. But it's like pretty high intensity and high pressure.

You know, for everybody who's involved, right? They're buttoned up, right? You know, everyone's like trying to be careful. You don't want to say the wrong thing because it's bulletin board material. There's no bulletin boards in Summer League. No. This is the opposite. If everybody's wearing suits at the NBA finals, here at Summer League, they're wearing Hawaiian shirts and flip-flops.

It's just a dope vibe, and so I love it. And so let's get into Summer League. I got a text from you saying that you had a front row seat to the white party. Jet Holmgren's Las Vegas Summer League debut. What's it been like, man? Because you were in Salt Lake as well. And obviously- Actually, I wasn't.

So this was my first time getting to see him with Giddy. No, I was just watching from home just, you know, eyes peeled. So you were watching that on TV. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is great. I assume that you were in the arena for that. No, you were just locked in appointment viewing. Well, you assume that because I was sending you play-by-play text

of the entire game because I know you really want to get in on this chat home and I train with me, you know? I'm finished. I showed up at the gym at 1230 yesterday. They didn't play till 5. That was their schedule time, but it showed up late. I want to make sure I have my pick of the seats. I want to have the best angle just in case something crazy happened.

And I wasn't alone, man. I don't know if you saw the crowd, but they're on their feet, you know, in anticipation before that game. Rowdy, this guy starts just taking shots off the backboard coming across the paint blocking shots in the third quarter. I mean, it was a revival, man. People were excited. It was wild.

And what I love about Shed is that he is in an environment, not only that's all about the development in Oklahoma City, but he already has the running partner. He already has Josh City. Those guys clearly are like BFFs already. They're going to be a marketable duo. There's like no question about that to me. But they've got a real just interpersonal chemistry on and off the court that I love to see. And giddy is such a perfect Las Vegas summer league character because he does not believe in consequences.

You have some friends like that, right? Where it's like, well, here we go. You know, there's always that one guy who's just like, well. I might be that friend. Yeah. What do they say? Let the chips fall and just figure it out. Exactly.

That's giddy, man. He'll throw these 50-yard passes. and you're just like, I mean, you see it. I don't see it. You know, whatever angle you were looking at, and sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. But I love that he's out here playing with Chet. They're getting that chemistry going.

And it was just a really exciting matchup between Chet and Jabari Smith, because you're just getting this flash forward vision of what the NBA is going to be like five years from now. We're just everybody's roaming the perimeter. Everything's interchangeable. You know, everybody's handling the ball, shooting the ball and all that.

And I just love to see it. I love to see it before everybody else gets to see it, you know. Yeah, I mean, the Chet thing was dope yesterday. I was, I didn't quite have a front row seat like you did for Chet, but I was there from Tip to the last whistle when Paolo and Jabari played the opening game of Las Vegas Summer League. Energy was dope. What I liked about Paolo, and of course, you can never make too much of what you see

at NBA Summer League. Wrong. You can. Overreact, man. That's a, that's a. No, why is that such a common misconception, man? Everybody wants to say, oh, don't overreact. No, overreact.

That's the whole point. I love it. But what I loved about Paulo is like he clearly came out with an agenda. Like, this guy's like, no, like, I got picked before this dude. Literally, like, they picked me over him and I'm going to show people why. And I thought he put on display, like, the things that make him a very attractive young player. Like, he has all of these ball skills. he does play with a lot of aggression on offense anyway.

I'd like to see the rebounds get up. I'd like to see him play with more force on defense. But you saw a mix of the skill work, the ball work, and just like a motor. Like, I'm going at people. I'm not too cool for school, blase. Oh, this is an exhibition. No, fuck that.

I want to look great. And I loved that part of watching Palo. Well, the two happiest people in the gym that night were the two Orlando Magic executives, John Hammond and Jeff Welman, because they're facing all these questions about why did you take Palo over Jabari? And then also Chet plays so well in Salt Lake City. There was this whole push of like, Chet should have been number one. Why didn't they take him? Which is incredible, by the way.

Palo came out with the crazy swag, just like you said, looking to just kind of put his imprint on the game offensively. He reminds me a lot of a young Carmelo Anthony in terms of. his physicality, but also just the well-honed technique, being able to get to those mid-range shots. He actually showed a little bit of three-point range in these games as well, but then also just living at the free throw line, bullying people, getting downhill. I think my biggest knocks on Palo, you know, he stops the ball a little bit. And then he's still figuring out how to be a playmaker. He chases those highlight assists. And he sometimes hits him and it's just like, oh, wow, like this guy could be crazy. I like when he makes the simple pass, the driving kick to a corner

three. Like that's, that's what NBA quality NBA offenses have to subsist on. But yeah, he does try to do the pocket passes. He does try to get a little fancy a little bit too much at times. Well, and he'll spin in traffic and like a double comes and all of a sudden he's not

quite sure where he's supposed to put the ball. I think he had eight turnovers against the Sacramento Kings and like some of them, you know, I'm just sitting there like my head's on the desk. It's like, bro, stop doing that. Just would you please? Like, same mistakes over and over. So he's got some work, I think, to become this full fledged playmaker, you know, to really raise his ceiling. But I was looking back in the last 10 years,

there's only been four guys as rookies to average 20 points a game. And it's like Joel and B, Donovan Mitchell, Zion, and Luca, I think Powell is going to get there, man. I mean, look at how many shots, how many touches he's going to get. And the guy's just a pure bucket. Like, put everything else aside. Like, he's going to go out there and get you 17 to 25 every night one way or another. And he's not going to hijack the offense really to do that. So I think that's why the magic guys were so excited. They were like, yeah, everyone's going to get off our back.

Like, this guy's going to actually sell some tickets for us. And I think they're feeling really good. And I like his composure that you were talking about as well. Not only is he focused and, like, you know, trying to do it, but it's not like he's going at someone's neck and, like, trying to make it a one-on-one thing, like a streetball thing. He's just playing hard. He's playing basketball.

Yep. Yep. You know, Jabari, like, I'm curious to see how, if ever, he's going to create space for that pretty-ass jump shot. Like it doesn't seem like he has this off the dribble thing happening yet. He doesn't really do a lot of moves. We'll see. He's a really young guy.

You love the size. He's a plus athlete. So, you know, it's obvious what's attractive about him. But we'll see what he can do going forward. I'm curious, have you seen anybody in Summer League that's kind of surprised you're like, oh, shit, like this kid might be a league guy. Well, before we get to that, let's talk about Jabari, because does anyone get blamed more than Jabbar? Smith's guards. I, everyone, it's like, it's like, oh, Jabari wasn't involved in the offense.

It's the guards fault. Everyone was crushing him at Auburn. Everyone's been crushing him at Summer League. If he has to play with Kevin Porter, Jr., that guy's going to become the number one target in the NBA, because everyone's going to realize he doesn't know how to run an offense. Jabari is going to be standing there all season waiting for somebody to pass him the ball. And so I do think, you know, Jabari needs to add a little bit of go get it. You know, he has to have that idea of like, all right, well, it's been for possession since

Has anybody passed me the ball? Enough of this. Let me get the basketball and go create something for myself. What I do love about him, though, high-level defensive energy and versatility. And he wanted the assignments. You know, it was him against Powell and him against Chet, you know, the first two nights. Love that. All these guys love the duck assignments at the NBA, especially in Summer League.

And for these guys. It's like one of the perks of superstardom. It's like, yeah, one of my lunch pail guys guard the best guy. Right. And so I do like that Jabari Smith knows what he does well and kind of sticks to it. You know what I mean? So that's kind of how I saw these guys break down. You know, in terms of some of the surprise guys or the people who I was really anxious to see just like, where do they fit in, I mean, I thought that was actually the one big disappointment of this weekend.

I had Shaden Sharp circle. Me too. Okay. Is this guy good or is this guy great or is this guy just behind the times because he didn't play last year? He takes two terrible threes, hit some crazy baseline jumper and then he's just done for the whole week. I mean, that's just tough for the Blazers fan because of like a shoulder injury. So I think that was one. I was like kind of hoping to fill in the gaps.

But I'll be honest, man, these first couple of days, I've been spending all my time looking at these top guys because this class it was all about who's really the number one, who's made the best case. And I still think it's open, man. And Powell looked good, but he didn't look like absolutely, you know, no brainer number one.

And Chet had some moments too. So I think that's been the fun part of this summer league is kind of creating that ranking here, you know, at this stage of their careers. All right. We talked enough serious basketball shit. I want to get into some of the more. soap operatic type of stuff.

And we've gotten a nice dosage of it here. You mentioned Wojian, you know, executives and newsbreakers, Wogan, Rich Paul, you know, they're talking with their hands over their mouth so no other can see read their lips. That was cute. What my favorite right now is, you know,

LeBron shows up to the Lakers game and like people are coming up to him as if he's the fucking Pope and kissing the ring and everybody's doing it and he's doing it on one end of the court and Russell Westbrook is at that same Waker game never acknowledges the king then Well here's where

It just goes back to my earlier point about it's okay to overreact You know some people are going to be like oh come on You guys are reading too much into it no we're not We are absolutely not Read more into it This was like Kim and Kanye going to watch their kids soccer games And staying on opposite sides of the field You know what I mean?

I mean, they're sharing custody of the Lakers right now, you know, because they both want to be viewed as good team players, but they're not, if you compare it to last year, they showed up, you know, their arm in arm, BFF,

you know, they were trying to make a real statement about like, as a matter of fact, Ben, I want to talk about something from 2019. The Lakers, um, were pursuing Kaua Leonard and everybody was basically made fun of them.

The Clippers out Foxxed you. It's a Clipper town. Blah, blah, blah, blah. They were getting killed. And the very next day for the Lakers Summer League game, Kyle Kuzma, LeBron, and AD showed up together. It was like a show of force. It was like, United We Stand.

You know, we didn't get Kauai, but we don't give a fuck. And Pat Bev is there, and he's chirping at people. It was great. So to see that, fast forward this year where it's the opposite, where LeBron is, he's got his own teammates on the opposite end of the court, I don't think we're reading too much into that. Well, the other thing that people were pointing out is that some of the Lakers' recent signings,

I'm not going to call them out by name, but they almost look nervous to introduce themselves to LeBron. So that's a bad sign. You know what I mean? It's like you get that Laker deal, but you're like afraid to walk up to LeBron and zap him up, even though, like you said, he's like the king of the whole circle,

everybody's kind of coming to pay their respects. I think it's great that LeBron shows up. He doesn't have to show up to this stuff, man. You look at the summer league roster. I mean, Shreif O'Neill, Shaq's son, had such a bad game one in Summer League that he quit his Twitter. He's like, I'm off social media.

So that's sort of what the Lakers are working with this year or their group. And for LeBron to come in, you know, he put in three quarters. I'll be honest. He left early, okay, watch. But at least he put in the three quarters to be with the guys. Three quarters of Summer League action, bro, is that's a lot. Yeah.

And, yeah, and I just think it's the right thing for the league, too. You know, I think if I'm out of himself and I'm watching like Damien Lille or LeBron James, all these franchise level players show in that they're invested, it's a good thing. And another. Another soap opera sort of thing that I enjoyed. Of course, we touched on it briefly during the show. I mean, at the top of the show, but the first Nets game, I'm pretty sure it was the first one.

Ben Simmons shows up because he's a net who's in good standing, I guess, right? You can't keep him out of the gym. That's what they always say about that. Ben Sitton shows up. And all right, cool. He's at the Nets game. Another guy who was currently on the Nets roster. Kyrie showed up to an Oklahoma City game.

He didn't show up to the Nets game. I just found that to be fascinating stuff. That Karii would make the track to Vegas be like, yeah, I'm going to sit in Gucci Roe to taking the game, but it's not going to be a Brooklyn Nets game because that's usually how it goes for people at home. Like, LeBron's going to show up to a Laker game. Dame is going to show up to a Portland game.

You know, Obie Topping shows up to the Knicks game. but Kyrie Irvin doesn't show up to the team that he's currently under contract for. Well, so look, LeBron's the optics God. So far be it for me to give him advice. But if I was him, I would have scripted it differently. I would have showed up like he did to the Lakers game and then have Kyrie show up at half time and sit next time. You know what I mean?

Because that would apply the most pressure, right? If you're Sean Marks, like, you know, you can't get Kyrie to show up to your game, but all of a sudden he's just kind of like, you know, manifesting this Lakers trade to happen. I think that would have been hilarious with Westbrook on the other side of the court. Oh, I imagine the possibilities. It would have been great. The Kyrie thing was interesting. I wasn't surprised he showed up because I really do think he wants people, he wants to be on the front of people's minds.

Okay, good. Until he can get the trade done, you know, because I think it's really clear from everything we've heard. He wants to go to L.A. L.A. is willing to take them. They want to get off Westbrook. It just makes so much sense. And so I do think that's, you know, kind of why. he showed up because I don't really remember him being a regular out here in past years

but it was funny they put him next to Balmer and you know the Clippers owner they put him next to Jerry West I'm just like man I wonder what the conversations they were like you know unbelievable and yeah and you know just because it's summer league you want to share some scuttle but

I talk to somebody who has a decent understanding what the Lakers trying to do their feeling about this and they were just like yo the Lakers have let like the chatter get to their heads where like they want to win this Kyrie trade.

You know, like they feel like, why should we have to give up two first when nobody else wants to take this guy on? They want to win the trade to be seen as doing good GM in business. And I'm just like, yo, first of all, you probably need to attach a pick to the

Westbrook deal. Yep. Okay. Then you give a pick for a player that's of the quality of Kyrie. This seems like a no-brainer to me, but, you know, when you have these ego-driven sort of, you know, distinctions that you make, I guess that's what puts a snag in this, but it feels like this ultimately gets done. Well, I mean, Sean Mark's coming out and like asking for the world and supposedly for both Kyrie and KD. That's just a very obvious, like, step one. We've got two

months to sort this out. So let's throw out some crazy trade offers and see if anybody's interested. I mean, at this point, Westbrook and Kyrie are both like more contracts than players, you know, as strange as that sounds, they're both expiring. Obviously, Westbrook's making more, but they both had such terrible years and such negative impacts on their team culture that, like, you can go team by team and say, like, who does this guy help? And it's really hard to come up with teams. Like, here's a good exercise. Let's say Westbrook does get traded and he gets bought out. Who's going to pick him up, right? Like even if it's mid-level or, you know, veteran.

minimum. I mean, it's a really short list. And so, I mean, we should probably start asking the question, like, is he going to be in the NBA next year? You know, like after this, after this contract ends, will he get another run? I mean, maybe, but we'll see. I'm not completely convinced that he will. And I think that that kind of thing, that dynamic makes this trade talk difficult because you just have to put a price on how many picks is the difference in their salaries worth. And it's not two first round picks for whatever it is, 10 or 11 million dollars. That's too much. The right answer is going to be somewhere around one pick, throwing a couple other players and call it good. They're going to get there eventually. I'm confident.

All right. I want to get you out on this thing because a little birdie told me, Ben, that you once started a website dedicated to the Portland Trailblazers drafting KD, that you were KD over Greg Oden from the start. You were really dedicated to it. Of course, you got Portland roots and all of that stuff. Can you give us, tell us, like, as briefly as you, you can about this website, this whole internet push that you started. Can you give us a little bit of that? Because from my understanding, it's kind of how you got started in NBA media where you, you're basically now the big dog at the Washington Post. Jeff Bezos knows you by name? Well, we're working on that. Okay. So I was working a day job, right? And it's the draft lottery

night. So I just like asked, hey, can I go home early? I want to watch the draft lottery cut out at like whatever was, 4.4.30. I get home. home and the Blazers win the number one pick. I'm a Portland native. The team had been terrible for, you know, the previous five, six years, nothing to cheer about, no fans going to these games, everything else. But they're starting to turn it around because they got Brenner Roy and Lamarcus Aldridge. I love Brandon Roy so much.

This was like a lightning strike moment. I mean, I had no intention of doing this. As soon as it happened, I was like, what do I do? I had all this like nervous energy. So I ran over to my computer blogger.com. And it was like, let's see if anybody has draft Kevin Durant. Of course, like, no one else is going to have this, right? So I put the website together.

I mean, it's embarrassing, man. It was like, you know, a paint shop heart around Kevin Durant's head. You know, I was just tracking, like, basically any story about Kevin Durant, I was going to, you know, react to it. And I'm just sending my links out to, like, you know, all the big shots at the time, like Henry Abbott was at True Hoop and just like trying to beg for clicks, basically. Because there's no Twitter or anything like that, just trying to get my name out there. And, but I was sort of his propaganda minister because I was just dead set, like, the, Blazers have to take this guy. He's going to take this franchise to a different level.

He's going to make him tons of money. He's going to be marketable. I understand everybody wants the big guy, but that's not what it's about right now. It's about KD. So I had so completely convinced myself, Waz, that they were going to listen to me. You know, because I'm like this egomaniac, like 23-year-old. So I had, I wrote like, I'm talking about like a 15-page essay with footnotes about why they should do it, right?

Like I wanted this like just for history, everybody to know where I stood. And I'm watching the draft night. And even though there had been all these leagues, Blazers are taking Oden, I was confident, just so confident that they were going to take KD. And when they didn't, I almost cried, man. It was really close. I was holding Mag tears because I was so shocked that they didn't do it. And then, you know, ultimately, like, I kind of use that to start blogging about the Blazers. And so my punishment for being wrong was I had to cover, like, the four or five years of Greg Oden's career, which was just like MRI, injury, you know, sketchy off quote.

report and everything else. To Odin's credit, I mean, he was, he was a nice guy. I mean, he did a number of interviews with me that was, you know, I thought kind of above and beyond. I'll never forget, we went to a place like Chuckie Cheeses. We sat down like at this little kid's birthday party area, you know, where they would typically like have, you know, it's kind of like a community service event. This guy's in a little kid's chair with his knees up by his ears trying to answer questions about like his third consecutive season ending entry. And it's just like, and I'm thinking this could have. been like Kevin's fifth straight all-star

appearance. You know, I could be doing this here in Portland. So there have been some people who say, you know, should Katie force the trade of the Blazers 15 years later and just like complete the circle? I don't know. You tell me. I love the Dame Lillard Photoshop. I'll tell you that much. That's very

thirsty, but understandable is KD. Man, super dope story. Ben, thank you for coming on with us today. Tell the people where they can find your work. My personal favorite is your Instagram, but tell the people they can find you. Yeah, it's Washington Post.com slash sports. I'm going to be breaking down chat, Palo, and all that stuff we were talking about earlier

so people can check that out. I got the post-up newsletter you can subscribe to. It's free. Instagram's at Ben.golver. And it's all just like, you know, behind the scenes, Vegas stuff, like which players are showing up. So if you want to see that stuff, that's where that is. And Twitter at Ben Galver.

Fantastic LeBron shot, by the way. Love that. All right. That was our show for today. Make sure you're locked in to. everything we're doing here. Ringer NBA podcast network. Summer League has been a blast. We're going to continue in our Summer League coverage in the days going forward. So just look forward to that. We'll see you guys next time. Peace.