The Ringer NBA Show - Suns Get Embarrassed, and Farewell Sasha | Real Ones

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

Logan and Raja open the show with their reactions to the Phoenix Suns losing to an Australian basketball team, the Adelaide 36ers (02:00). Later, they briefly discuss expectations for James Wiseman this season (19:00), before bringing producer Sasha Ashall on to discuss all things Lakers (26:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guests: Sasha Ashall Associate Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salick, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, the Ringer podcast network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from grunge gods to power pop pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. Real ones. Logan Murdo here, Roger Bell there. Rogers is looking at his Zoom screen. He does not know what he's doing this morning. He doesn't know anything about technology. Apparently, everything he learned. He's forgotten.

Are you okay, Roger? You good? No, I am good. I'm playing around with my view, the gallery view of Zoom. Like, do you find it easier to speak when you can see yourself or where you're just looking at me in your view? Like the carry on a conversation? It don't matter. I mean, like usually, like right now, on my Zoom right now, I got third Ikeye, our producer,

and then I got Kerm, our producer. They're also on, like, one side. And then I see you on one side. It's like half and half. So you go with the gallery. You go with the gallery. You go with the gallery. You just got to see me.

What do you do? Well, no, I usually go gallery, but I was just playing around with that to see if I went with speaker mode how that would look. But your face is too prominent in my window when you're talking. So I'm going to go back to gallery.

All right. So you're hating. That's cool. We're just going to start off the week hating. That's okay. That's fine. Okay. So I want to just get right into it.

I want to talk about the preseason. I know that, you know, that just brings just a sigh from Rajah when we say, yo, let's talk about preseason storylines. You know how, you know, let's get to the sitch. Let's get to the season. But the biggest story in the NBA, or at least, you know, overnight is your sons got embarrassed last night. They played a, yeah, they just got outright embarrassed. They lost to a team that wasn't even an NBA team.

Roger. They lost to a team from the Australian Basketball League, the NBA. I think the genesis of this pod today is just basically going to be like, yo, should we be concerned? Or should we, how much stock should we take into these storylines? Roger, how much stock are you taking to your sons losing to a team that's not even in the league? How much stock? I mean, I'm not going all in, but I don't think we can absolutely write it off. I think it's kind of what I worried about for the Sons with last year with the Robert Starbord thing. And certainly this year, it's just a distraction. I don't think that the sons are that devoid of talent that that that they're going to be a bottom feeder in the NBA because

NBL, NBL, NBL, what did you say? The NBL, the 36ers. It's a very good league. It's a very good league. So I'm not trying to diminish how good the teams in the NBA are. But I don't think the sons have fallen off to that degree where they're going to be, you know, press to win games night in and night out in the NBA. I think that they have a lot going on out there in Maricopa County right now. There's a lot of shit going on. There are a lot of distractions.

It's probably very hard for them to focus on the task at hand. This is what preseason is for, Logan. I'm not excusing it. It's ugly. it's a look in the mirror kind of time for them as an organization, certainly, but as a ball club secondary elite, like right now in the midst of training camp, and let's get this shit together because that's that's embarrassing. When we talk about preseason, we talk about, I mean, everything that comes of mind

is basically you bucking up on Michael Jordan and saying, yo, I'm the shit and then him beating you, you know, or him, him like, you know, serving you up on a platter last time, the next time you guys played, right, in the regular season. Basically all that to say, like, you could take the preseason with a grain of salt. And, you know, things will, weird things just happen in preseason. Are we chalking this up very early right now to just weird shit happening or should we be scared that there's more on this right now? Just more on this in terms of just, you know, are they, are the sons fucked over one

preseason game? I vote no, but, you know. Is there any things that we need to see from this that we can take into being concerned? Again, let's go down there. McElchurchase played 22 and a half. Cam Johnson, 22 and a half. DeAndre 8 and 22 and a half. Devin Booker, 22 and a half.

Troy Craig, campaign 25 and a half. Landry Shamit, 23, and then a few minutes for the other three. So the point is, it wasn't like they were burning their roster trying to get win last night. You know, Devin Booker, I think, got eight FGAs up. He was five for eight from the field. So when I didn't see the game, full disclosure, right? I'm not watching preseason games, but when I look at that stat line in the box score, it's what a preseason game is. Like you rolled out there, you wanted to get everybody some burn, you wanted to kind of start knocking the rust off, get a little, get a little sweat going, and then shut guys down before they got hurt. So I'm not

super, super concerned, but you have to take into account that that's not another NBA team. And so, you know, I would even think your twos when they go in that game or whoever's playing at the end of the game, they should be good enough if on brand and focused to pull that out, to win that game when you're playing somebody that's not from the NBA. And they weren't able to do that. So there is some level of concern. but overall, the sons didn't necessarily, you know, sit there and say, listen, man, we got to win this game in the fourth quarter. Let's really channel all of our energies in an effort to do so.

That in and of itself is a little embarrassing for me, but the fact is that you'll see a better sons, but there is concern, right? Like there's got to be a level of pride and a level of play from your second unit or whoever's in the game to beat an NBL team. Honestly, I don't think it would be that big of a deal if the last, if the last, The last image of the Sons wasn't getting embarrassed by the Mavericks, right? Where they just get blown out of the building, their season is over. I mean, what you would want to see out of the Sons, and I think that's the biggest thing about why there's so much concern, is if you're the Sons right now, you want to be crisp.

You want to be just showing everyone in the league, whether it's preseason or every time you step on the floor, no, man, we're not going for that. We're not going for that anymore. And I think that was the part that was most concerning, Roger. That's the only thing where it's like, yo, we got embarrassed last time y'all saw us. Right. Well, that's not going to manifest itself in the preseason, I don't think.

Even if they do feel like that, and that's going to be the mantra. Like, we were embarrassed last time we were out here. We're putting the world on notice that we're back. That will start at the beginning of the regular season. That's not a preseason thing for guys. like Chris Paul and Devin Booker and some of their other vets. I would just say this, and we talk about it with teams that win championships all the time, let's say, or not win them all the time, but let's say a LeBron team that goes to the finals year in and year out,

and they're running that deep into the playoffs. That's exhausting. Even when you're winning, it's exhausting, and finding the energy, both physically and mentally to continue to duplicate that is a challenging thing. I could make the argument that a team like the sons that got all the way there a couple years ago, kind of lost in, I mean, probably for Phoenix fans, a heartbreaking kind of way to Milwaukee. And then summoning up like that inner, man, we got to get over at his hump. We're motivated last year, despite the Robert Sarver distraction and really pouring it into the regular season.

It looked like they ran out of gas in the playoffs. and it's not like a car, you don't just go to the gas station and fill up. Like when that's out of gas, it's really hard to keep it moving. And so I just wonder if the overall emotional and mental toll that was the championship run that fell short, the brilliant regular season last year,

the loss to Luca, the distractions with Robert, now selling the team, I wonder if it's starting to take a toll. I'm not saying that they're dead in the water, but you have to be concerned about that. That's interesting you say that because when you think about the 2021 season and then you make, people don't realize

just how much of how exhausting a long playoff run is. And then, you know, they went all the way to the finals, had a big chance to win the finals. Then you have to, like you said, summon up the energy for the next two seasons in this way.

It's almost like, it's almost like, and I hope you get this analogy, Rob. It's almost like winning a three or going three p without winning shit, you know? Like where you go and you, you put, you exert enough energy to try to go win a title. But dog, after three, four years, that is exhausting in itself. Dude. Well, that's what that's essentially what I'm saying, right?

The winner, the winner of that three Pete, let's say you won two out of three. It's really, really challenging to get up again because you've got the, you've got the, the goal already in hand, right? Like, you've got to be a little greedy. But there's an organic. level of energy for a team like the Suns after that first defeat because you don't have it in hand yet, right? So last year you saw that. It was easy. It was there. Like we're hungry. We want to do this. It's not easy to keep doing that, especially when you get knocked out like you did last year and you

look like you kind of ran out of gas. So yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying. We're saying the same thing. That is an exhausting grind of a season for any team, 82 games. When you start getting into the 90s and the hundreds and emotions are running high because you think you have title hopes and there are other things that are pulling at your mental and emotional energy. It's really, really difficult to go back to the well and find it again. Especially when your emotional leader is as old as Chris Paul, right? Where, I mean, I think they ran into this last season where Chris Paul is the emotional leader for the 60 plus one team. And then, you know, Chris Paul still got it. But then he gets tired into that postseason, right?

Like, you know, even in the first round against the Pelicans, he's getting tired. And so you're going, there's also other things that are in play. Think about DeAndre Aden, and that's the relationship between him and the sons that, honestly, I think. Another distraction. We talked about that at the beginning of the season last year, Logan, if you remember. And people were asking, and I'm like, you just get that shit done. You get it done because you don't want to be where you are right. now with another damn distraction and somebody who may or may not be all the way in.

The seeds that were planted last year with Aiden are bearing fruit right now, right? Where you just, because he's, I think, I don't know if it's, if he's done so since, but he hadn't talked to his own coach since. Aiden hadn't talked to Monty Williams since that game seven, which is, and then signs the contract and then is expected to be Kumbaya. Nah, he's still thinking, but y'all should have been game. me this. Y'all should have been held me down.

What's up? Absolutely. And he's going to, and, you know, there's no blaming him carrying that through this season. And that's just another thing that you got to deal with. Will you allow me to just say one more thing? And I don't, I don't want to get in trouble because I don't mean it in a negative way. You about to get aggregated? Well, I hope not, because I'm not saying it in any slanderous way.

This is a big year for DeBook. And I want to. he needs to take the next step. And when I say that, I'm not, I'm not saying that he isn't a star right now. Like he clearly is. But as Chris Paul continues to age and give you what he's got in a way that he can sustain through the playoffs,

you're going to need deep book to continue to take steps up the star. He continues to level up in that star category, if that makes sense. Right? There are different kind of stars, right? There's levels to everything. So, you know, we need him to take the next step in his stardom to continue to allow Chris Paul to kind of not have to bear so much responsibility during the regular season. And I think that's fair, right? Yeah.

I was, I'm glad you brought that up. So, Devin Booker for the last few years has been a darling of the, I would say, there's always that one guy that the superstars from the era before just love. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to think of an example. Like, you know, all the star stars, like the biggest stars in the league, love Kobe in, like, 97, right? Like, Jordan was like, this is a cut from his cloth. Same with Iverson is another example of that, you know, of just guys that people just love. David Booker is like that, right?

Like, you hear KD on Simmons's pods, like a long time ago saying, no, Devin Booker's the next one up. And then he gets the Kobe co-sign and all these things, right? He has to live up to that now, you know? And his performance in Game 7 last year was unacceptable. Straight up. There's no way to put that. He kind of got a pass after the finals in, in 2021.

This is his team to, this is his team for the taking. And it's weird to say that, considering like he's the face of the team. But he has to take the reins. And I think that it's not, oh, Chris Paul, give me the reins to this. It's like, no, I'm going to take this. I'm taking this this year. And that's going to separate him from what he was back in the last few seasons. I'm glad you went there because when I say take that next step in leveling up as a star,

it doesn't necessarily mean in point production. I mean, it already averaged 27 a game last year. He's brilliant in terms of skill level. Yes. Yes, it's the emotional leadership. It's the holding people accountable. And I, again, I don't know that he doesn't do any of that. But I know that Chris Paul's personality, whenever he's in the room,

he's probably going to lead the charge in those areas. And it's going to be important and imperative that Devin Booker continue to grow, right? Because he's grown every year, but continue to grow now, maybe more importantly, off the court in the locker room in terms of galvanizing the team. And, you know, if we're just keeping it a buck, the reality is, Logan, we judge these stars on whether or not, you know, they do get over the hump in those situations that you talked about. And growth is necessary to do that. And so I just, I hope for his sake and for the sun's sake that he can continue in to grow. And then the next time he's in a situation, you know, that it kind of squarely lies on his shoulders, he's able to execute. Real question for you. Can he do that as long as Chris Paul is on the roster? Because Chris Paul, like you said, he's the leader as soon as he walks in the door, right? And I don't see Chris Paul take it a back seat.

You get what I'm saying? Like, it's one thing to say it, but it's one thing to actually do it. And I don't see, and this is not even a slight to Chris Paul. This is just more of just like, yo, he's one of them dudes every time he steps in there in the room. He's the leader. Can Booker, how could Booker take the slice of this team back? or take that team as long as Chris Paul, this alpha personality is in that locker room.

It really is a good question because that's an organic personality trait for Chris Paul. Leadership. It's who he is. It's whenever you even see him out in the public or, you know, I take my teams to his events when they were younger and you've seen him in the gym, he commands a level of respect and projects a leadership quality. Real talk. Just even walking around in gyms.

And so that's not going to be easy for him to turn off, nor do I think it would be in the son's best interest to ask him to do so or even take a step back. I think it has to be debunk asserting himself in a way that makes Chris Paul feel comfortable in kind of being like, okay, I see it now. And the only way to do that is to be very consistent, I believe, in who you are as an individual.

as a teammate, as a brother in the locker room and when we're not on the court. Also consistent when he's been this on the court. But in those moments that we judge people in, rising to the occasions in a way that makes it certain to someone like Chris Paul that you've got this. And, you know, that's a lot. But he's got most of those boxes checked already, I would imagine. I mean, certainly, you know, the point production and he's consistent. and I think he's a really solid pro.

All of those things he's already got checked. Now, now, Chris Paul's got to look at you in that game against Luca. And when he, when your eyes meet each other, Chris Paul's got to get that warm feeling inside him like, oh, shit, we're straight. Books got this. We're straight. You know, and when he- No, but like it was, it's, that, man, that's a tall ask after last season, man.

Like, Luca puts the fear of God in teams, dog. Like, did you see that? That game seven was just, you got to just have a lot of soul searching. And what I'd like to call, and honestly, you got to have a lot of soul searching and what I'd like to call Ben Affleck Time. And Ben Affleck Time is, you know, when you, you live in Florida, Ra, you know, when you're just going through shit and you just, you go through to the beach and you just stare out into the distance and you're just like, what the fuck is my life?

You know, you know, when you just, you know, I'm sure. I don't know, but I've seen it in movies. So I, okay, where you just like, there's this picture of Ben Affleck out there. Just Google

Ben Affleck on the beach and you just see him just everything, all his flaws are just out. He's just looking like, fuck. Like, you need to have some of that time,

bro. That's what you need. And for after a season, like last season from the suns. And we'll see what happens. I want to move on real quick. We're going to go up the, we're going to go up the West Coast.

You know, go to the Bay Area, which we typically, do on this podcast. I want to talk about, I'll talk about James Wiseman real quick. James Wiseman, first preseason

game in Japan had 20 points, punched it on Christos Porzengis, you know, showing spurt, showing signs. Now, I want to say

the caveat is that, you know, the next game, he dropped eight points and fouled out of the game. You know, just, you know, that's this is where we are right now.

And I asked you this when I asked Steve Curtis when he was on the show. I want to ask you this now. Let's lock in. It's a reasonable expectation for James Wiseman right now this season. What would you want to see with him? You know, Steve gave the, you know, the coach answer, you know, the very public vanilla coach answer, you know, he's going to back up Looney. We'll see what happens.

What do you think, Ra? Who's not in comfort? Who's not one of these shills? That work for a team, Raja. You speak for yourself. What do you think? What do you think about? What's the reasonable expectation for James Wiseman?

You're asking for a reasonable expectation or what I want if I was the Golden State Warriors from James Wiseman? Yes. Yes. Okay. So let's start with what I would want. And bottom line, I know Steve Kerr couldn't say this. Loon is great. What you want from James Wiseman is to take his job.

Yep. That's what you want. You want James Wiseman to- I believe Steve, Steve Kerr would have told us that off the record. I believe he would have said that. He did not say that for the record, but I believe that's something that he would be like, yeah, yes. Yeah, but everyone in that building has to desire that, right?

James Wiseman to fit in and play at a level where he's good enough for everyone to unequivocally say, yet he's the guy for that job. Loon, you're now coming off the bench. What I think is reasonable to expect from James Weisen this year is solid and consistent growth. as a player. You just alluded to having 20 and then having 8. That is what a relative young player in this league that doesn't have the ball in his hands on a bad team, if you understand. The guys who have the ball in their hands on bad teams are going to score 20 in night. There's a certain amount of points that have to be scored in NBA games. They're getting

up volumes of shots. They can consistently hang up numbers. He might not be able to do that in the capacity that he's asked to play for Golden State. So you just want to see solid, consistent growth with field goal percentage, with, you know, rebounding and rim protection. And you want to see him, we talked about this with Steve, starting to look like he really fits into that offense in a way that they don't have to change anything they do to incorporate him into what they're doing. to see if cerebrally he can handle the way they play, the style they play, and if he's a good fit.

And you just want to see that consistently grow. I know it's not a great answer, but you can't really hang a point number or rebound number. You can't. You just want to see him continue to grow, develop, stay healthy, and look like when he comes in the game, like they're better or at minimum, don't miss a beat. Yeah. Simplistically, I think all he needs to do. Just catch lobs. catch lobs from Draymond and Iguodala and Steph.

Just catch lobs, get rebounds and block shots, bro. And just run the floor. I mean, if you want to hit a couple threes, that's a bonus. But honestly, night in and night out, bro. Just get rebounds, take lobs. It just gets second chance points, man. There's nothing more we really need to do. And pass the ball to Clay, Jordan Poole, and Steph.

Just kick out. It doesn't have to be that hard for him. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. And Steve Kerr said it when he was on. That rim threat, that rim run from wherever you're setting that pick and roll, they don't have that right now. And so that collapses a defense and puts pressure on a defense in a way that would help a lot of players in Golden State. As crazy as that sounds, because they already have just this phenomenal offense. But when you have that true threat of a guy attacking the rim without the ball and everyone from the weak side has to honor it and touch it.

And now the ball is whipping back. And we've got people in closeout situations. Well, guys who aren't primary playmakers now catch guys in closeouts and they can become playmakers because they got defenders in really precarious situations. It opens all kind of stuff up. So the warriors during this run have never had a true skill. big man. The closest thing that they, on consistent basis, the closest thing that they had was

DeMarcus cousins. And I remember a game, I think it was against Houston in that 19, it was in that 19 season. I think DeMarcus had like 28. It was late in the season. And when he did that, one of his best games was a warrior, you've really

seen how the warriors can, this iteration of the warriors can be unlocked if you have a skilled big on the floor, right? If Wiseman can somehow summon that and just this, this, this, this, it unlocks so many different things for the warriors and also helps them throughout the future, you know? It just, it'll, it'll, it'll just unlock them and just help out so many things if he can just just click. Yeah. He is not going to look like that, I would imagine, even towards the end of this year. but if they see signs of that in practice and if you can see glimpses,

because that's what you're looking for this year. You're looking for glimpses. You know, I'll be at a lot of glimpses. You're looking to see flashes where you're like, oh, yes, that is something that is in his bag. This is within the scope of possibilities for this young man. I agree with you. That takes them, that ushers them into a new window.

Yeah, of possibilities, right? As these guys age and it's time for other guys to kind of start stepping up around them. that would be really cool for Golden State. I got one more little storyline, and I'm glad this person came on the Zoom just in time. We got, you know, the queen of real ones. Sasha Mizak is on the line right now. We're about to talk.

We have an announcement in a few, but I want to talk through a storyline really quickly with her. You know, wherever we have Sasha Mac on, we've got to talk about one thing, and that is the Los Angeles Lakers. we have the Lakers are bringing in

their vaunted Big Three Sasha where they of Russ A.D. and LeBron and their propaganda, Rajah, relax. I know you're mad right now. Relax.

We'll get to that at the second. But anyway, they're trotting out their Big Three and they're bringing the Lakers propaganda out out of El Segundo, Sasha, do you believe the propaganda that is coming

out of Los Angeles right now that they can just figure it out and do these things and just be a dark horse title contender? Are you, are you, are you believing the gas right now? Bold of you to assume that I've been paying attention at all. I don't know. I know.

No. No. Short answer, no. No? I don't believe the propaganda. But I'm looking forward to a new season of LeBron James and maybe we'll see Anthony Davis play this season. That's my biggest problem with it all.

But Russ. He's already on the injury report. Russ is Russ. What are you going to do? Yeah. Yeah. I'm numb. Okay. You say Anthony Davis is on the injury report? He was probable when he was on the injury report.

Don't do that. He was on the injury report. Don't do that. It's a fact. Who runs the Lakers? Who runs the Lakers PR, man? I had talked to them. Don't do that. Keep his ass off, no matter what.

Yeah. It's rough, right. Sasha, have you picked a person that you're on the team that you're just going to root for? Like, this is going to be your favorite person? Want to just gone to Anderson. Oh, well, yeah, there we go. Okay. Yeah, I like him.

I also, isn't a friend of the show? Yeah, he is. I need to look at the roster because I don't even really remember. We got some new people, right? We got some new people. Oh, Dennis Schroeder's back. Oh, Wenny and Gabriel, I like him. I know that he's probably not going to play, but I like him.

Damien Jones, I love Damien Jones. I thought he was really fun. I can't remember if it was last year, but he was. He played for the Lakers last, two seasons ago, I think, for like a two weeks stretch. Yeah, I loved that. I thought he was great. I don't really know why, what happened with that. He's just not very good, I guess.

But that's always my, that's why I loved the, I think it's 2016, 2017 season. When there was no expectations. And it was all just young people having fun, learning. That's what I like. So Austin Reeves, Damien Jones. Who's Dwayne Bacon? I think I like him too. We can't do that, Sasha.

That's where we're at with LeBron. A.D. I think I like Dwayne Bacon. I think I'm going to root for him too. Who's that? That's where we're at right now. What's that Florida State, right? Dwayne Bacon's a Florida State product.

You played for, I love that. I love that. Played for Charlotte Hornets. Bacon Jr. That's what, oh my God, there's so many good nicknames there. This is where we're at.

This is where we're at. Here's what the Baconator. The Baconator. I don't want to feel I'm conflicted laughing with you right now, Sasha. We're going to get to that. I'm very conflicted laughing with you right now. Okay. All right.

This is what the Lakers. are going to boil down to for me. Darvinham bringing a offensive philosophy over from Milwaukee and for whatever you know, beefs people had with Budenholzer in Milwaukee, like they had that offense

figured out around Janus for years before they actually won. If he can open them up and kind of unlock their ability, pace is going to be paramount. LeBron's willingness to play like that. If he can touch on those things with these guys and unlock

that offense. Like I think they're going to be okay. Now defensively, you know, I don't know what guys have in the tank. You know, Russ, LeBron. I don't know what they have in the tank. But offensively, you have these weapons. You have to figure out how to get them.

You have these ingredients. You have to figure out like what recipe works. You know, you have a tinker and hopefully he can come in and unlock some of that stuff and at least make them formidable on one end of the court, right? Like they got to be, they got to be either. scoring a hell a lot of points and getting up and down

and then we're going to roll the dice on defense, but something's got to click or we'll just be this defensive juggerna which won't happen. Very hard question for you, Roger.

How much time are you giving Russ before you go to Indiana and be like, remember that deal that we were talking about in the summertime? Let's go make that happen. How long you,

how much leash are you giving Russ right now? A month. Wow. One month. Those are big words from the biggest Rust offense. or potentially planet earth.

I'm not, yeah, I love, I love Russ. But I'm not throwing shade at Russ. I will know if I'm then within a month, whether or not he fits. And even though I love Russ, I could tell you, you know, I keep a spade a spade. Like I like to call him like that.

Like he wasn't a great fit last year. Now, I'm also one of those guys that believes people can kind of change a little bit and with different messaging and different, no, straight up, different messaging. Look, I went from, shooting five threes a game or two threes a game in Utah because I was told not to shoot. Stop. Don't interrupt. I went from doing that and fouling the shit out of people when they were on fast

breaks because Jerry Sloan would tell you don't let them lay it in the bucket, make them get up off the ground and shoot two free throw. So I was a non-three-point shooting, hack you on every play type of player. And then I got different messaging the next year. And it was shoot every time you're open and I believe that you are one of the best options to do so. And I don't want you fouling people. And so I tried my best not to foul. So my defensive, my defensive mindset changed. And then offensively, I didn't become a better shooter necessarily. They just unlocked my own like apprehensions about shooting in a way that allowed me to be successful. So I'm not saying that that happens, but it can happen. So I give it a month to see if, if, if,

There's any change in the way he's playing and the way he fits and the way the team looks. And if it doesn't, then we make the call. Hold on, Sasha. Hold on. Is that what, wait, one second. Is that what it is like that you think rest needs is to just make more shots? And John wants to know, should he come off the bench? I don't know. That's a recipe that has to be kind of tested out through the course of training camp

and through the course of these preseason games. and then we're going to look at the numbers. Like, those are things that have to play themselves out. It might mean he comes off the bench. And if Russ isn't willing to accept that, again, I love Russ. But Russ is at a point in his career where even I would tell you, hey, man, if the best scenario is you coming off the bench right now in an effort to win a chip, like I expect as a Russ fan for you to say, bet, let's do that shit.

And if he's not willing to do that, let's keep it moving. Now, I don't, Sasha, to touch on what you said, I don't think it's just about Russ making more shots. I don't think it's as simple as that. But it is about feeling more comfortable. more wanted, you know, like in a way that kind of loosens you up and allows you to submit, if you will. Like, you know, people, like, that shit ain't just X's and O's and numbers on a score sheet.

There's a lot that goes into the psyche of a player in a situation where he doesn't feel like he's wanted or he feels like it's all his fault. And some of that lies on the team to say, look, bro, don't worry about what they're talking about. We don't believe that shit. Like, this is, we got you. maybe it unlocks him, maybe it does it. And that's maybe also like LeBron's job, too.

Sure. Okay, so, Raja, we're going on our third season of real ones. Wait, wait, wait, hold on. Are you going to talk about Russ? I'm talking about Russ. Yeah. Okay, okay. This is our, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I'm not. I thought you were going to get, wait. Oh, no, no, no, we're going to get. Oh, we're getting there to say. We're getting there to say. We're getting there. Don't you worry about it. We've been doing this pod, Raja, this is our third season going on.

This is Russ's third team since we've been doing this podcast. We've had this conversation so many times. And this is how I know you love people. And when you love, you love hard and you're a good person, right? We want a Roger on your team. And I'm going to just say this. I know you love because you are just conveniently forgetting that we've had this conversation so many times. And I just have something to tell you, Roger.

Go ahead. Russ ain't changing. It's not happening. It's not going to happen. We've had this conversation. millions and millions of times. And it's not happening, Roger. I know you love him.

And I know that I know what the best for him. It's not going to happen. It might not happen. It might not happen. And you're right, bro. When I ride with you, I ride with you. Okay. Now, let me just say this.

I agree with Sasha. It took Mello years to figure out who he needed to be to stretch that career. Also required him being out of the league. Out of the league. It did. I don't, yeah, that was unfortunate. I don't, I don't, I think of having a superstar bouts for him just to get the, the, uh, the veterans minimum.

But let, let me, let me just defend Russ. The teams that he was on asked him to do that. You're not, you're not, it's not that they were asking him to play this, you know, secondary or third usage rate guy on their team to help them win a championship. None of those teams were in that mode, Logan. So in fairness to Russ, it's what I said when they got him, you're taking someone who's used to play in a certain way just to be able to get his teams into relevancy or maybe the eighth or seventh spot in the playoffs and all that he does to make that happen. And you're dropping him on a team and dramatically drastically drastically changing his job description. Like boom, hey, I want you to change.

That shit doesn't happen like that overnight, usually. Maybe some people can do it. but it might require a longer trial period and a longer tinkering around the edges until you get it right. And I will still say that the likelihood of that happening isn't phenomenal, but I'm not discounting that it could happen. Rajah's one of the few people I think in the world. That's how you know Raj is so real because he's a real one and he's a Russ believer. Those things are so incompatible, but he's like one of the few people on. planet Earth who can pull it off. It's unbelievable.

I have to butter him up because I think he's mad at me. Hey, he's mad at you for sure. Hey, Roger's gonna like somehow be at Russ's Hall of Fame speech still defeated him. Like, oh, bro, y'all wasn't, y'all wasn't outside for us. Better have you do the speech. For real. I don't even know Russ, which is crazy.

I don't even fucking know Russ. But I'm not, look, this is less of a Russ defense. I know. I'm just like, Logan, like, it's less of a Russ defense. I'm not apologizing for Russ. I'm simply saying. I've seen, I've seen, okay, let's use Boo Boo, friend of the show, right? Boris Dio, I played against him when he was with Paul Ortiz over in France, with the Peatrous brothers, I was at Taosarama.

He definitely had a scarf on going into the arena, didn't he? Oh, man, he was swagged out, right? Like, so we were, but a young Scotty Pippen looking type of player, I left there like, my God, this guy is. And so then he comes over to Atlanta and Mike Woodson, who was a friend of my, Woodo, Waddo was my assistant coach in Philly,

played me one-on-one before every game, gave me a bunch of suits that I had tailored like when I didn't have the bread to get suits. Like, salt to the earth type of dude, love him. But he was not a good fit for Boris in Atlanta. Whatever their relationship was, Boris came to Phoenix broken, kind of a shell of who he was as a player,

like not confident in what he could do at all. And I had seen it two years ago, so I knew what it could be. And Mike D'Antony and company unlocked him in a way by showing him and believing in him and allowing him to make mistakes and continuing to believe in him. And the rest is history. So I'm not really apologizing for Russ or telling you that this is a rust thing. This is more about a cultural type of-

Someone to believe in him. Psychology. I'm not saying that's going to work, but it would help. Okay. And we'll give it a shot. It might one month in you'll know, bro. That was a short answer. Well, it got so ugly last year.

Like, it really did get pretty ugly at the end. And Russ is never one who's going to just sit back and be like, like, you know, he's going to, like, get in the conference, whatever, and be like, oh, yeah, super weird. But my ass hurts because I'm been sitting so much. Like, he's going to say shit like that. And, you know, so Frank had to go. He needs to be less combative. No, I don't mind him doing that, to be honest. I don't care about that.

If he wants to talk shit, go off. Like I think that it was so sour at that point anyway that it didn't matter. Like to me that was like behind the scenes, it's so bad that. Yeah. That's just seeping into the press conference now, the stuff in the locker room. I agree with you. Last year that shit was ugly. But if this is going to work, right?

And if I'm saying that the team has responsibility like to help, I mean, Russ is culpable too. Like he's got to be in there and submit in a way that gives it a chance to work and accept the role and be willing to, you know, while we'd like, love it on this show and media loves him getting up there acting like an ass like don't do that don't do it you know what i'm saying like don't do it like say i'll take one this is me taking one for the team i'm not happy and i'm not going to say shit about it what do you think we haven't talked about him at all uh pat bev and russ we haven't talked about babette okay we haven't even

touched on him pat bev is such a polarizing figure in our group chat he's just such Am I going to love him now? I think I'm going to keep it a stack with you though. I'm going to keep it a whole stack with you. I love Lakers' fat bad with you. At this very moment, I love him because just... He didn't have to move house even. He's probably staying in the same house.

Also, he's talking... This is a great trade for him. He's talking big shit right now, bro. Like, he's saying, yo, I went to the playoffs last year. You know, talk about LeBron and AD. He said it up, but I don't. was there. I went there. I was like, yes. No, no. Yes. I cannot wait. I'm putting this out there. I cannot wait for the Lakers

Kings playing game in Sacramento. I'm just putting that out in the universe because I hope it happens. I cannot wait. It's absolutely insane that we're talking about a playing game with LeBron James and Anthony Davis. I just... I'm not, I, yeah, I mean, I hear. I think I do this every year. You've been contending for more playing games and titles during this run, by the way. Well, there are a few things I don't bet. I don't, like, I don't bet against. I don't bet against LeBron.

I don't bet against him. And I know. And I don't know that a championship is, is the end game this year. But I don't know that the play in game is either. I think if they can get some of those things right. And that's a big if. I mean, they could be. It's LeBron and AD.

You know what? So much of this. so much of this hangs on the relationship. The health of Anthony Davis. Right? The health. What a thing for your season to hang on. No, right?

That's a scary, that's a scary statement. The health of Anthony Davis and that relationship between him and LeBron, that passing of the torch type of relationship. Anthony Davis, who is listed as probable

on Monday's injury report for the preseason. Stop doing that shit. With lower back tightness. there you go. I retract my statement. I'm out. I'm out. Like, don't do it.

What is there a fine? Like, forgive me. Is there a fine if Anthony Davis doesn't play and it wasn't released on the injury report? Is there a fine? No, I'm asking. If the media doesn't hear, that Anthony Davis isn't playing

before Anthony Davis doesn't play, if that is not like something that has to be done just for the optics, man, stop listing him on the fucking. injury report. Sorry for the language. It's rough out here in these street stop. Anyway,

speaking of rough, let us live, bro. Let's tell him. Let's really. I want nothing more than for him to thrive and live and have a great season and be mentally there

and be physically there and make his shots. and that would be great. There were times last season where I was literally sitting there I was like, I don't know if I'd prefer if he didn't take any shots

or he made them all. Like I should, he just stopped shooting completely? Zero, zero shots? Or would I prefer if he made them all? Either way, I think it was better

than what was going on. All right. Let's get to why we came, man. We got Sasha Mac on. We got an... This is why we're here. This is why we're here. This is why we're here.

You know, so quick announcement. Sasha Mac will... This is her last show. She will be leaving real ones. She will be leaving real ones, much to me and Roger's chagrin. We've already cried two tears in a bucket right now. Would you like to take it from here, Sasha? Or, Roger, do you have something to say?

No, I mean, you... you guys distract me with all the shiny rust talk. So my level of vitriol and disappointment and anger and sadness all rolled up into like one emotion is all gone. So Sasha, yeah, I'm going to miss you. You know that. I'm disappointed. Yeah, I know. I'm disappointed too.

So you're leaving us, Sasha. Yes, I'm very sad. But I'm also not like gone. She's not leaving the ringer. She's just too. Full disclosure. She's not leaving the ringer. She's leaving us.

I would have preferred if you were. We're leaving the fucking ringer, man. I would prefer you lose your job. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no lose your job. Why are you going to be like somebody else's pod, man? Raja, I already work on a bunch of other podcasts. It doesn't like only doing this podcast. Me and Raja going to be looking through the other pods, like, looking at Sasha through the window.

Like, what the fuck? You know, what the fuck? She's on another pod, man? Yeah, yeah. Roger, this is a little Roger notes about what goes on beyond these two hours a week. She said, fuck us, Roger.

After these two hours a week, Raj's like, yeah, I'm good. I'm going to the beach, actually. I actually got to go play basketball. I have to go yell at some kids. Sasha, you do other pods? I do. I've been doing other pods since day one.

Although this was my day one podcast where they were just like, okay, this is a new podcast. You got to go do this one. That's a little behind the scenes for you guys. They just say, go, you go do this one. So Sasha came in like a month after I did or something like that, like September 2020 or maybe a couple of weeks after I came.

August. Okay, I came in August. Me and Roger came in August. And then I just remember Steve Alman was doing the podcast, doing the producing. And then it was like, okay, we got this other person. And I remember, I don't think Sasha used her Zoom camera the first couple of times. Did I not? Who the fuck is this?

Who is this? Yes, I did. did. Nah, I don't remember it. I don't remember that. I don't remember seeing you for like the first like couple of weeks. And then then like you've become family, bro. And I would just fucking, you know, we just kick it.

I know. We talk shit and just just, just. I know these recordings last like an hour and a half. Oh, man. I just, there's so many. I'm going to. Let's listen. Jonathan, Kai, you guys have huge shoes to fill, right?

Like this is. You guys are going to be great. We're going to be great. We're going to be great. But you guys got big shoes to fill. We got kill a Kerm. And, third Ikeye coming through to take.

Yeah, I mean, to hold it down. I've always struggled. You remember the Aminel Haasen story about me in like Phoenix with with Terry Porter at practice? Do you guys remember when he told that story? I was like, you were kicking shit. You were kicking balls around. Anytime there's been a coaching change.

I've never dealt well with it. Rogers is about to show up to recording 20 minutes late. He's about to just be hell of passive aggressive for like two weeks. And then he's going to fall in love with like. like Kerm and Kai again, but like, it's going to be a rough. It's going to be initiation. You're going to have to text Raja 15 minutes in. Hey, uh, remember we're pot.

You're, you're ready? You're ready. I can't do it. Only the only, only here. Also, I've realized this with Sasha on that like, I can't text Raja before shows. It has to be the producer. It's fuck. It's fuck Logan.

Why are you texting me right now? And then it's only the producer can. They have to figure out which one's going to do it because I can't get two texts. It's only one. So it's either going to be Kai or John. But you might have to send multiple. One person, but you might have to send a couple. What's the biggest advice?

Okay, Sasha, what's the biggest advice you give Third Eye Kai and Killikerm? To and dealing with us. What's the biggest advice you give? And dealing with you guys. And dealing with us and producing us. What's the biggest advice you're going to give? They're looking for a strong guiding hand.

Not a lot of shows need that. No, it's true. Everybody has different needs. Everybody has things, different things they want. These guys want a strong guiding hand, somebody to be in charge. They need, they're looking for somebody to be in charge. Yeah. That's good.

That's fair. Yeah. That's fair. So are you saying that they might have to be an asshole once or twice? Is that what you're saying? To Logan, definitely. Yeah. I can't recall Sasha being in a hole.

Oh, I don't know. I never saw that. I never, I didn't know that. I've gotten, I've gotten so many, just fucking do it from Sasha. Just do it. Oh, man. I don't know if I can do it. Just do it.

Logan, goodbye. Another one would be, Logan, you have improved on your ad reads and that kind of thing. Fucking right, I have. Yeah. But, yeah, there's definitely. Am I out on ad reads now? Like, am I good now? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

What? What? We're in this area, I thought I could negotiate a little. This is what he does. Now I see what he used to do in the mediacy after a trades. You just be like, oh, can I, can I? Just a wiggle room? What's up?

No, Raja's always been good at the ad reads. I like your ad read voice, Raja. It's good, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's got to corral him enough to do the damn ad reads. All right. Let's get to a little thing, a little segment Sasha's included in this that we like to call Real One of the Week, which is, you know, the oldest segment that we have on this show. And it's appropriate that we have a Real Ones OG do it for her final time.

I'm going to go first. We'll go to Raja and the last one will be Sasha Mac. I'm going to go, honestly, friend of the show. A Salt Lake City legend. Walter Nassie, who passed away recently. Oh, no. Passed away recently. So at the age of 76, our guy, friend of the show, our shows sponsored by Walters, you know.

So I always shared a few meals, you know, over at his establishment, a legendary establishment in NBA circles. We all know the vibes. Raja knows the vibes. Sosha Mac when you go to Salt Lake City, you got to know the vibe. So my ruin of the week. And honestly, real under the week for the show is Walter Nassie, our guy in Salt Lake. So, yeah. Oh, that's tough, man.

And, oh, bro, that one hurt. And you got to take your opportunities, man, because I remember I was out in Salt Lake. I was supposed to see Walter, man. the last time I was out there I went in I didn't dine I literally went in to give him a hug and say what's up you know what I mean like while I was down in town and then I went back up to park city and then this time I was supposed to go eat and my kids were acting crazy and there was so much going on I was like I'm not going to take them in to mess up you know the dining experience for other people and I didn't get to see him and that would have been man that's tough man that's tough I don't want to do a real one I don't I don't I'm going to leave that I'm going to go vaulted too yeah okay okay Sasha Mizak. Wow, that's really sad. I never was able to go there while he was alive, but I will, like, it's literally on my list. Like, it's been on my list ever since the first time we talked about it.

So rest and peace, Walter. And also thinking about his family and stuff right now. Okay, well, I'm going to give my real one of the week to John and Kai. What were the nicknames? Kai the Killikerm Third Eye Kai That's such a good one

I yeah Have fun This is a really fun show So you're gonna have a lot of fun Fucking do it man Was this like the passing of the torch Was this the passing of the torts from Sasha back To the dude to do

To do join our Always a real one Sasha Always always a real one always Always show. This was the first show that I did. Yeah, kind of. Not really. Actually, I think the very first show that I did was

a Fairway Rowland. Oh, word? Shout out. It's a golf pod? Yeah. We got golf pods on here. I think it was the very first show that I edited on my own, but this is the first show that it was like, you're the producer of the show. Like, you're

doing this show. So that means a lot to me. And also, like, you know, I'm still around and I'm sure You're coming back on the show At certain times Like if we need We're gonna bring your ass back

I'll let you know When I start paying attention to basketball again It's still a little early in the season for me to I think I need to see some Some ball I need to see some ball happen I like our group text Our group text doesn't have to go away does it

No no that doesn't have to go away We just have a new group text Starting up to my You will I mean so one group text. One group, another group chat that you're just not going to answer for like.

I hate group text, though. I hate it. I'm like, get me out. Also, also, uh,

Kerm and Kai, um, Raj's just not going to, uh, he's not going to respond for like days on end. So, you know, and then he's going to send you a video of his,

uh, of his kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I'm in. Or maybe himself. But,

but, but maybe he possibly. In fairness, killer Kai. Wait, no, third I Kai and killer. And killer.

Ikeye and killer Kerm. Okay, that's not just for like Logan and Sasha or you guys are the show. Like that's everybody in my life for the most part. So like it's just, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for shizzle. Just to bring this whole full circle, the team that the sons played, the 36ers have not reached the playoffs in Australia's NBL since 2018. So.

What? Yeah. So, you know, it's, yeah. All that to say yes. All right, we're getting, we're getting, all right. Kerm is already taking the baton from Sasha telling us we need to leave and get off this podcast right now. This is another edition of Real Ones, one of my faves.

Love you, Sasha Mac. Love you, Ra. Love you guys. See you guys next week. Hala.