The Ringer NBA Show - Takeaways From the Replacement Player Era and Major Story lines in the New Year | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 5, 2022

As players begin to return from health and safety protocols, Justin, Rob, and Wos talk about the last few weeks of basketball and if anything can be taken away from these games with so many players out (1:45). Then they discuss four major story lines in the new year, including if the Bulls are serious contenders, who is the fourth-best team in the West, and more (18:25). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Production Assistant: Isaiah Blakely Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, I'm Mallory Rubin. And I'm Van Laithen. Check out the Ringerverse podcast from The Ringer for all things, superhero movies, nerd culture, and fandom entertainment. We have instant reviews and fun takes on all the latest news and more. Available now on Spotify. I am Justin Berry here joining me, Rob Mahoney, Big Wise. Welcome to the New Year, my friends. Rob, how was your holiday?

I barely made it. I got to be honest with you. There was a moment in the week after Christmas. I think I was watching Heat Wizards, and it just totally broke me. I was just looking at the court. Corey Kisperit was the best guy on the floor by default, and I was wondering, what the hell was I doing with my life? How many points did Omer your seven have?

Too many. Too many points. I managed to shoehorn that one. And, Was, how was your holiday? Hey, man. As a greedy bastard, the amount of grub that I ate that was just carbs, fat, just not good for you. Greasy. It was insane

and I enjoyed every minute of it. But I'm back to, you know, green juices, drinking electrolytes. I'm doing all the healthy stuff. Now that I'm back in L.A. the land of, you know, the very health conscious. Hollywood Waz is back. Exactly.

I like how you're both like, oh, man, it was so taxing and Waz just ate a lot and Rob watched bad basketball. Well, I also ate a lot, so that's where we are. There you go. What tough life we lead, you know. I know. Well, let's talk about that basketball over the break here, because we're going to get into some of the major storylines going into this new year of NBA basketball, but first, I did want to talk about what just came, because I feel like we're kind of coming out of the replacements era of the NBA, or at least I hope so. A lot of teams are down to, like, one replacement player

or like maybe two players that you haven't heard of as opposed to the entire starting lineup. And so, uh, Rob, as we reflect on this momentous, um, um, um, um, um, um, um, Rob, as we reflect on this momentous, what, a couple weeks in the NBA, like, what do you think about what just happened? Like, did you learn anything from these teams or these new players? Well, I don't think we can in good conscience sit here and pretend that all of this basketball mattered, right? Like, there was a lot of junk. There was a lot of caveating and asterisks.

And do we take these games seriously or those games seriously considering how many guys were just out of the lineup? The decision points on whether some of these games should have even happened was like, can we get enough guys from the nearest G-League team to logistically make it here in time to play? So some of them we just have to throw out. But I think there are some cases where, for example, you look at what Jalen Brunson was doing in Dallas, especially with Luca Donchich out, you know, guys stepping into bigger roles. I think we can say confidently now with Brunson, a guy who I think we all thought pretty highly of to begin with,

he's a guy who needs to get paid or they need to trade, frankly. Like, they need to invest in one way or another. So we're getting closure on some things like that. were being reminded of who Kevin Porter Jr. and Christian Wood are when they storm out of a game at halftime, apparently. And there's another team, I think, and a couple of teams that I think by surviving some of their absences showed something, showed some signs of life for the second half of the season. I think we can get to some of those teams later. Yeah, I have a confession to make. I am not as professional as Rob Mahoney.

So when I watch a bunch of G-leaguers on both sides of the ball, I'm like, yeah, I'm out. I feel like I just, we don't get paid to be G-League experts. Or at least I don't think I do. So I can't pretend that I watched a bunch of these games and was just like, oh, maybe this guy can, you know, fill in a role for eight minutes on a playoff team in the spring and the summer, right? I can't pretend to have been doing that. I think the NBA, I will say this, I think the NBA did the right thing by just soldiering on, right? By not forcing a bunch of postponements and, you know, mucking up the schedule any more than they needed to. I think this was the right decision.

I think we can go in cleanly into the rest of the year. However, you know, and I think Varia was about to get into this. Usually we used Christmas to be the line of demarcation of, all right, now we can get serious. about analyzing these teams. I don't know how we could do that, given the disruptions that, you know, Omicron and Omarion did for the NBA with the protocols and stuff.

The cause for optimism is that Justin, as Justin alluded to, if you look at the data, it does look like we finally peaked in terms of the NBA cases. We're finally on a downward trend. We're finally, you know, hopefully going somewhere toward normalcy.

Normality, toward normalcy. Close enough. Where we don't have to watch G-leaguers on both sides. of the ball. And while we're at it, can we revisit my contract so I don't have to watch two-way G-League or something both sides? Can I get on whatever deal bosses on, please? Well, after the normalacy, I think we have to replace you with a G-leger. That's fair. Yeah, I mean, I think that's the big question here is as an entertainment product, was it worthwhile to just power through and hope that, like, I guess during this time

that nobody was really going to check? And I mean, this is actually a good question to ask you guys, because you were spending a lot of time with relatives and friends. Like, Rob, were the Dallas people in your life just like psych to fire up the Jalen Brunson experience? I think there's a lot of checking out right now in general. And that's the weird thing about using Christmas as the day, as was saying, of demarcation, because it is that. It's a big opening for the kind of next stage of the NBA calendar in most seasons. But I don't think we need to pretend that even in normal times, people are watching a ton of NBA basketball from December 26th to January 10th. You know, it's kind of an in-between stage to begin. You know, it's kind of an in-between

stage to begin with. There's this big opening exhibition, the five-day slate of Christmas Day games that this year very few people seemingly watched. It was one of the NBA's worst turnouts in over a decade in terms of the ratings on those games. But this period is always a little slow. This period, I don't think there's like maximum NBA investment. And this year just especially, especially slow and especially checked out, I think for a lot of people who are wisely gorging on carbs and fats and eating cookies and whatnot. Like, that's what this time is supposed to be about anyway, if we're being real. Right, and just...

Yeah. And, Justin, I'm not going to lie. Part of me, again, maybe this is just the lazy worker in me, right? I'm just like, we got too many damn games. You know what I mean? Like, if this huge...

If we could go through a three-week portion of an NBA calendar and feel like none of this actually mattered, right? Like, is any of this going to have any actual bearing on who ends up in the playoffs and what makes a good team and you know player development if we could go through three weeks straight of just being like did that happen did that matter like maybe the season is just too fucking long man i think that's the good question to be asking here like what are the long term ramifications that basically signaling to your audience that like we didn't actually

really care for a couple weeks here um and like is it going to have any sort of of diminishing returns or long-term effect on like the viewing public. I definitely made the case last year when they rushed up the season that there was going to be a lot of bad basketball. And while it made prudent business sense, I did wonder if there was going to be kind of a chilling effect in the long run, basically like putting out an inferior product and what that suggests long term, especially considering how much the NBA has been hand-wringing over the past couple of years about like losing television subscribers and people cutting the court, et cetera, et cetera. I wonder that again, whether or not this is the same thing,

it's only going to compound that issue from last year. On the other hand, maybe just having something is better than nothing. And I do think it's convenient that after we're coming out of this little period, there's already newsers and stories about mid-season tournament. So I wonder if, like, the actual conspiracy, this is probably conspiracy theory, but I also wonder if it's actually the plan here,

where it's like, let's just get through this stretch, and this will actually be a way to Trojan horse in, something to plop in the middle of the season. and that actually settles all of the issues we're talking about. Well, if there's one positive to come out of this period of incredible tumult in the NBA in terms of the schedule, I would hope that it's at the end of it. The stakeholders look at this and kind of disregard the sanctity of 82 games, right? Like, you know, we've already seen teams finish seasons without playing 82.

We may see it again this year if they're not able to reschedule all the games they need to and fit them in and, you know, future suspensions and cancellations of games, see. I kind of think this year they'll get there, but hopefully they can reach the point where they realize it doesn't really matter if it's 82 or not for record book reasons. We already have a bunch of kind of janky seasons on the books. What's, what is it really going to change that much if we shift to 72 or 66 or whatever the optimal number of games is or the optimal format in terms of midseason tournament or whatnot to to get a little more life into what, you know, what is usually the doldrums of the NBA calendar. And honestly, man, the season. The season,

more and more as the years go by, feel like a lengthy freaking vacation almost damn near the way some of these teams play, the way they're conservative with injuries, the way, it just seems so leisurely because it's so freaking long. And then part of it, too, like, when you watch teams like the Warriors play, where I feel like they're at a decided regular season advantage because they do seem to be going way harder than everybody. Like, it just feels different watching them play their effort level. And, you know, it remains to be seen whether there will be a cost to that in the postseason, right?

Remember all the hand-wringing we did when they won 73 games and we were just like, yo, maybe they wore down in the playoffs because they treated the regular season with some type of respect and seriousness as like antithetical as that may seem. Like, it seemed like they kind of got punished for going so hard. But it's like watching, you know, we're going to talk. about the Hawks, watching them play against the Blazers without C.J. McCollum, without Dame Lillard, who are easily the Blaz's two best players, and just give up 140 points to those cats. It's like, what are we doing here? Yeah. Who's advocating for 82 games at this point,

besides the owners? That's what I'm saying. Like, and also, if you look at some of the attendance numbers, I'm just like, I mean, are y'all really making that much money off of these home games? guys, like, obviously the TV deals might, the local TV deals as far as the amount of product that they promise their TV partners as far as the amount of games, et cetera. Obviously, that would need to be tweaked and adjusted. But, like, I'm watching the damn Wizards game the other night. That shit was completely empty. There was nobody there.

So it's like, how much bread are you guys actually earning on these regular season games that increasingly people are real? a lot of things that just don't matter, not just in the sense that they don't make a huge impact on who's getting to the playoffs. They don't matter in the sense of y'all not playing your best players. It's just like, what are we doing here? That's what I think I've learned from the holidays. It's like so, such a big chunk of the season is just so inconsequential.

Where are we on the midseason tournament? Like, Waz, are you excited about plopping that into, let's say, this period? because the proposed format just based on what ESPN is reporting is it'd be like a December pool play situation. And I guess there would be like some sort of quarter semis finals leading into Christmas Day game. So it would be more of like a prelude to Christmas to build excitement. Like does that like, does that get you going?

I need to know about the stakes and I need to know about the level of buy-in. I remember when we tweak the All-Star Rules. And what's the name of the free? The ELAM ending. Eelm ending. Yeah. So people made a big deal about the Eelam ending, but really if you watch the game,

all it was is that they tried hard. Like Janice and LeBron and Steph, like they played as hard as they could in this exhibition game. And that's why it was exciting. That's why I felt consequential. So I wonder what the level of buying, if the main guys have a buy-in and the stakes are high enough, like that it seems like,

these guys cared, then yeah, I'm interested. If it's just another thing where it's just like, well, do we really want to get Trey Young hurt in this game? Do we really want to get Clay Thompson bring him back during this tournament? Do we really want to? If it's going to be one of those, then I don't give a damn. And that's why, like, whatever the incentives are for winning it, they have to be player oriented, right?

It has to be player bonuses. It has to be something that's going to drive the talent to want to participate, not, oh, your team gets an extra draft pick or, you know, like, that kind of stuff never really made sense because Waz is right on it. Like you have to incentivize the players to want to give a shit about this thing. And I think you can. I think there is a realm of possibility in which the players

get super invested in this over time, but you have to grow it. And the only way you're going to do that is by introducing it and getting us into the process of a different, you know, a regular season that's structured differently than it is now. I do want to say, when the best players in the league

are playing their best, I know that sounds ridiculous, Like when I watch sons, warriors, when I watch Warriors Jazz, when I watch Nets versus Bucks who like, obviously those teams always want to kill each other, that product is incredible. When I watch the Hawks and Blazers last night, that's not an incredible TV product. That's not something anybody wants to watch.

So I still believe when the best players in this league are incentivized, like we see every single year in the playoffs, without fail, like we see certain national TV regular season games. That's an incredible experience, an incredible product. When it's like, eh,

does this really matter? Not so much. Can I put on my optimism hat for a second? Of course. Wow. This is rare for Justin very, you know, y'all. New year.

A mid-season tournament seems awesome. Like, if it works out, this would be, incredible. I do think like you guys bring up a lot of good points. I think a lot of teams are going to gamify whatever rules are handed down as we've seen time and time again with the adjustments to the rulebook. And I'm sure there are going to be teams like the spurs or are going to like take this entire team thing off and then like worry more about, you know, games in March in order to make the playoffs, et cetera, et cetera. But like if people do buy in, this is incredible.

I'm a little worried about the timing of it though. Like it feels a little soon. Like do teams even know who they are at this point earlier in the season. And won't this just make the January, February, March part of the season, more of a trudge, whereas right now we have like the last month or so of the season heading into the playoffs is kind of a muck because we already know where things are. I do wonder if teams go all out for this play, like what are we calling a midseason tournament,

I do wonder if there are ramifications on the regular season product even sooner. which just puts us back into the same spin cycle. Yeah, I think you almost don't want to use it leading into Christmas so much as you want to use Christmas as a launching off point. Like maybe you finish all your pool play before Christmas and that's like the first week that the games really matter. And you can cherry pick your matchups based on what matchups are most interesting, you know, where you have the youngest stars,

where you have the contenders, you know, facing off earlier than someone expected. That kind of thing makes sense to me. Or maybe that's the, maybe Christmas is the semi-finals or just the finals, but then you're only doing one game instead of five, which there's a clear revenue cost to that kind of thing. Yeah, and what I would be most interested in something like this, again, if there's actual buyouts,

I mean, I'm buying if the players actually feel incentivized to go as hard as they possibly can. Like, I want to see Grizzlies versus Lakers. Grizzlies have been clearly a better team than the Lakers this season, right? But if I get into a tournament setting where, you know, in a world where AD isn't hurt for the 1,200 time in his career, I want to see that. I want to be like, all right, yeah, maybe the Lakers are as trash as everybody believes they are. And Memphis actually is ascending. I think those kind of questions can be answered in a mid-season form that, like Rob said, it propels the rest of the season as far as storylines and how we're thinking about these teams heading into the postseason.

So, yeah, obviously, I want to see consequential basketball all year round. And if this mid-season tournament is a way to do that, I'm all in. And if you make the players care, you will force every team to care. You know, like you were saying, Justin, maybe teams like the Spurs would theoretically want to sit out or not really care about it. But if every player has a chance to make millions of dollars by playing well in this tournament, they're not going to want to come play for you if you're going to deny them that, you know? Yeah. I'm just picturing the type of trophy we're going to use for this because the summer league one is like the most basic like copy and paste from from clip art sort of thing where it's just like a ball and silver or whatever. And I could see that being just like a really interesting photo op. As long as we name the trophy after Dino Raja, Tony Koo coach, I'll be happy. Wow.

The real back to six months ago, a side swipe from a year ago. Nice. All right, why don't we move along here? Let's talk about some of the storylines that Waz was alluding to here as we kind of reset going into the new year. Let's go off script a little bit because I want to talk about some of the West teams because Waz already kind of started the ball here. We have about four or so questions here talking about the biggest things that are going on in the NBA non-trade related because at this point we don't have a lot of scuttle buck going on, though I'm sure we'll get in a fake trade here now and then. Let's start with this question. Which non-Warriers, non-Suns, non-Jaz West team do you have the most confidence in? Rob, where are you?

Who's like, I guess, number four? I guess let's first say we're assuming those are the best three teams in the West. By far, yeah. Okay. So who's number four in the West? Well, while we're kind of renegotiating my contract on this podcast, how much am I allowed to talk about the Grizzlies in a given week? because I already did this on Bill's Pod.

I already sang their praises. Am I allowed to dig into Grizzlies basketball again? Keep going. You're allowed to do whatever you want on Bill's Pod. That's an everyone's contract. Well, I think it has to be Memphis. I mean, just by the big picture indicators of where these teams are,

there's not that many teams that even have positive point differentials right now, and it's those top three, and then it's Memphis by a wide margin, and then it's like Dallas and San Antonio somehow kicking around. The Grizzlies are really good. John Miranda's been unbelievable.

So good that the conversation has shifted from, is he an All-Star to like what other awards can we get him in on? Like, is he an All-Star starter? Is he going to be most improved? Is he going to be fifth place on some people's MVP ballots? Like, he's been that good to get into those conversations. And so I think it has to be them, just given the level of star power at the top,

the depth that they have. I have more faith in what they're doing on a night-to-night basis than anyone else. And a lot of that has to do with how they play when they're missing three guys. They just play better than almost any team in the NBA when they have guys out

with injury or COVID or all the complications we're dealing with right now. You know, I got into a bit of a curve fuffle with Memphis Grizzly's Twitter

because I was watching them play very early on in the season. And I'm like, yo, this team reminds me of the Warriors last year where they have one guy who was insane,

John Morant, Steph Curry, which I thought I was just comparing John Morant to Steph Curry, which you would think is a nice thing. and a bunch of men, right?

And I do want to apologize to one player in particular, and that's Bain for sure, right? He's not some, like, flashing a pen, killing bench units, like against legitimate starters, legitimate NBA defenses. This guy is creating offenses. Jumpshot is real. Dudes have a problem staying in front of him.

Like, he's a legitimate two guard. There's no two ways about it. Like, I owe that guy an apology. I still don't think, you know, Triple J is a big enough one-on-one offensive threat in a playoff setting that makes this team like, for real, for real, right? Where I think, like, they have the chance to come at the top three in the West. But I do think Bain has been a revelation for me. I was completely wrong on that guy.

So sorry to Bain and nobody else on that team. That being said, I think, yeah, like you said, in a playoff setting, John Morin is so good. he's so like singular in how any defense that you throw in front of him even when you know what he wants to do

you can't stop him and in a playoff game that's a trump card that not many teams possess again you know we got to throw the Lakers in there because they're the freaking Lakers and LeBron has looked amazing in the past few games right

it's like well LeBron's still really freaking good but they got nothing else. You know what I mean? Like, A-B's hurt right now. The Rust Fit is still, I don't even think we could call it clunky at this point. It just doesn't work.

Can I just say that? That I would love to do a last duel where it's like you versus Memphis Grizzly's Twitter where we find out what the actual origin and what actually happened there because this is really becoming like an existential part of this podcast. Well, you know, look, last year was the Suns. The Suns fans were mad at me because I thought the Lakers would beat them if they were healthy,

which is like crazy. You're crazy for saying that. And yeah, this year I'm just like, look, I think John Moran is incredible. I don't know, because we've seen this so many times over the years. Like, think about Derek Rose at his peak with the Bulls, right? Like, they looked so much better than the heat. I think they beat them three out of four games that season that Derek Rose won the MVP. They lost five games in the playoffs, straight up,

because nobody but D. Rhodes could do anything against an elite NBA defense, right? And the heat were that. They were elite on that end. And so I'm always skeptical of these one-man crews and what they can do against set defenses in the playoffs. And I think, you know, I think it was fair to be questioning whether Desmond Bain could kick ass in the playoffs.

I don't know if that's some crazy thing to ask yourself, right? But I think this season, it's been proven. And Memphis is, they do remind me those Chicago teams, those Tibb Chicago teams in the sense that no matter who's out there, they're playing their effort level

and execution is at a ridiculously high level, which you got to give credit to the coach for that. Well, Waz, we're in 2022 now. Do you have an early prediction for which fan base you'll be beefing with in this calendar year? I will say this. It will probably be one in flyover country

because that seems to be the trend. with me and beefs with fan bases. They're not part of the coastal elites like I am. That's usually the trend. Well, Cleveland lookout. Yeah, no, Utah is off the board. I'm sorry. They're very much shaping up to be the team that disappoints

and Watts has something to say about them. Well, I will push back slightly on what you said. I think it was fair to raise those questions about the Grizzlies going into the season, but I do think they've alleviated pretty much most of the concerns about, like, the supporting cast around John Moran. I mean, Moran is incredible.

Like, he almost floats in a way that I don't know if I've seen a player do. Like his ability to just like stay in the air and draw contact or like finish over much bigger players is like downright like Marvel-esque. Like he is like a superhero at certain points. And it's just like incredible to watch him do that. But like just they're just so deep with so many quality guys. Bain is a prime example of that. I think Jackson's been pretty good. I don't think he's been clear cut number two all-star level.

I think a lot of people expected. I think he's been pretty good defensively. And if there is a concern here, I think it is probably on the defensive end where I think they're more like, I think 11th or something like that. And so I don't know. Like on the one hand,

they are deep, but they're also young and they're still kind of like figuring things out, which I think probably leads back to a Lakers discussion because I think like LeBron, if anything, you have the most confidence in him than any other player or team in the entire world.

Look, if you give me a healthy AD, which again is never a given, and LeBron showing us like, yeah, when I really want to go hard, I'm still one of the best players that are out here in a playoff setting. I'm like, man, that's hard to go up against, right? For anybody, that's a tough proposition there. But, you know, credit to the Grizzlies, man. Again, Dylan Brooks, who's been out, came back and is out again. He's looked good when he's come.

back. And I think even, you know, going back to last year, he's shown that he's somebody who could soak up possessions as far as a ball handler, pick and roll operator, one-on-one operator. Like, they do have depth as far as it's not going to just be John Morant, pick and roll, pick-and-roll, and John put us on the back, for sure. I don't know. Will it be dynamic enough against the best teams? I don't know. I'd still like to see a little bit more. And that's not. just me just being like, oh, I'm stubborn. I think they've shown a lot this season, especially while John was out.

I'm not one of those people who are dumb enough to think like, oh, Arthur Grizzlies more effective without John? No, you're not. But they've been impressive. I think you're right to be a little bit skeptical because the best case version of this is Brooks and Bain are giving them just enough offensively where, you know, Jaron Jackson Jr., receding isn't as big a deal.

You know, him being invisible for a little bit isn't as big a deal. The more realistic scenario is the one we've seen this season, which is when they do have all their guys, there's a little less clarity in terms of who should be shooting and taking over when and doing what. And Dylan Brooks is just like a constant chaotic force on a team shot selection sometimes. So you have to deal with all that in finding the balance of this team, but the talent is there, the depth is there.

As we've already sung Jaws praises enough, he's unbelievable. And if Bain can be like a more solidly number two or number three type score, over the course of his career. I think that changes a lot of their trajectory. And that's where I wonder, I don't know if this is like number inception because he wears 22, but I see a little Michael Redd sometimes

when I watch Desmond Bain, a little like, he's not an explosive athlete, but yet he gets by you sometimes, and he has like a solid enough jumper and he's physically strong enough to probably be a better defender than Red ever was. But I wonder if he has that kind of potential in him. So our friend Chris Harrington of the Daily Memphis,

Memphis was going through some comps in a recent piece of his that I was reading. And he brought up Hershey Hawkins, which was like way before my time. So I don't really have a clear one to one there. But he also brought up Eric Gordon. Like if Eric Gordon were healthy throughout his career. And I think that's a really good comp there because Gordon was primarily a shooter. He came in as a shooter. But he could do a little bit with the ball.

He could play make. Can create off the dribble. Also has like stubby arms. So I think there's like a visual comp there that really makes sense. I think that is a clear path for being there. But I think like, so Memphis is kind of the objective choice. I think there's just so much evidence to suggest that they are a very, very good team, especially considering the injuries and COVID stuff they've faced.

Is there any other choice or we at the Lakers at this point? Is this Occam's Lakers? The reason why I'm at the Lakers is because this reminds me of so many of those part two Cavs teams that just looks so freaking terrible in the regular season. And again, that was the Eastern Conference, like not really strong conference and not really a lot of competition. But in the regular season, they would look so awful. And then, you know, the five-man player of the month unit Hawks. And then we talk ourselves into the Raptors and be like, they're going to knock those guys off.

Clearly, they're just way better in the regular season. It makes no sense that we would think the calves could do anything. That's what this Lakers teams remind me of is just like, this is so, so underwhelming on a night-to-night basis. But yet, somehow the playoffs would come around and the Hawks were getting their heads caved in. And so were the Toronto Raptors. And look, I don't know that anybody on those teams

was as dynamic as John Morant. Hell no, they were not. Or as dynamic as Luca Donchich is, right? Like, no, they were not. But, like, this Lakers team just reminds me of that. Just, like, a bunch of veterans, a bunch of players that like kind of makes sense but not really. And it just looks nasty on a night-to-night basis,

but it's like, I don't know when LeBron is slowing this shit down to 80 possessions a game and he's dictating like every single part of the game against your ass. I don't know. That still seems like a tough proposition to beat. Well, especially compared to these other middling Western Conference teams that just haven't figured it out. Like they all have problems. The clippers, the Mavs, the Nuggets, they all have real serious, issues going on.

To the point that I think it has to be the Lakers and to the point, like we're kind of in moot point territory with, if the fourth team is not going to be the Grizzlies or the Lakers, none of these other teams have a chance of beating two of the Warriors sons and jazz.

Like they're just not going to get through two rounds of that. Is this Lakers team the least fun LeBron team in history? I fucking hate watching them because every game is a slog and it ultimately comes down to LeBron playing bully ball. or making like deep threes off the dribble that he has to take because otherwise it would be like counting on THT to score 13 points that night as opposed to his usual seven.

You know why I tend to agree with you. Although again, like once they traded Kyrie off of the part two Cavs team, I was like, ugh, this is this is tough, you know. It's like, ugh. But part of the reason why I agree with you is like the previous iteration of this Lakers team we could talk about the baby Lakers, which was intriguing because it was like all of these young guys plus LeBron.

There was also Chardon Freud there where it was like LeBron signed up for that and he kind of got his just desserts after going to a million finals in a row. Right. And so that was interesting in and of itself. And I think what was underrated about the iteration before this is like there was a lot of movement

between guys like Coosma, guys like Caruso, guys like KCP. These guys moved around a lot without the ball. They were incredible in transition. So many freaking, just straight up, deep balls to people like AD and LeBron. Like, they would throw lobs to DeWite. Like, the team, the offense didn't look just so grounded. To a halt.

It's like, Justin, it's nasty to watch on the night. It's like, Westbrook can't dribble by anybody. So what he does is he just post. people up. It's like, it's so mellow iceos. It's, it's nasty. And yeah, I think you're right. This is the nastiest LeBron team to watch in a while, man. Look, as someone who had to watch a lot of this footage for a story last season, I have to stand up for the first and second year LeBron Cavs teams, which at least this is modern basketball, you know, like it is complicated, but anything is better than 2003 and four era grinding out.

Oh, you're talking about the Sasha Pavlovich. Yeah. I'm talking, I'm talking Luke Jackson. I'm talking Ricky Davis, like those era teams really, really rough. That's true. I think part of it is just like how much they're just kind of ruining the back end of LeBron's career. It's just like they're really, they did this to themselves too.

Like they really didn't have to bring Russell Westbrook into this whole thing. They could have just kept it going and like let LeBron go off on like on a tough it, like on like a gilded pillow or something like that instead is just like they're just dragging him through the streets be like, all right, let's get there. One more finals, my guy. It's just like, it's really brutal to watch. And I'm someone who's loved watching LeBron throughout his career. It's just, I don't know, man. It's tough to tune in. Let's flip though now to the Eastern Conference because let's talk about something good, you know? Let's talk about a positive story here because the Bulls out of nowhere are still atop the Eastern Conference standing, 25 and 10.

I think we've had probably three discussions at this point about whether or not the bulls are serious contenders. But I think this time is actually the time to do it. One, because they're kind of riding a high here, having powered through some recent COVID absences and Caruso absences and the two Demartorosen buzzer beaters, which were great stories amid the muck of the replacement era. But also, we're starting to get guys back for some of the major contenders. Carrie Irving is expected to debut tonight on Wednesday. The bucks are kind of powering through. even Joel Embed is starting to play like an MVP candidate. So I do wonder Rob, like, how serious for the million times,

but maybe the last time are the Chicago Bulls. I think they're fairly serious. And I think what has me convinced is that even at this stage in the season, they still have a pretty elite half-court offense. You know, if it was just getting out in transition and running, I think that would seem a little flimsy for a playoff setting. And the fact that it's DeMarjorosen fueling the half-court offense, I think might understandably give some people pause given his playoff,

but I'm kind of buying it. Like the way he's playing, the way they fill in around him, the fact that some other guys aren't even playing that well yet, I'm sure we'll get into Vooch and talk about him. Like he has potential to play much better than he has. I think there's between that and their ability to potentially make a move to make their team even better. This feels like a pretty legit contender to me.

That said, the nets and the bucks are just really formidable opponents. And so it's like, yes, you're a contender as third in that mix. but like, what does that really mean? You know, it's tough because you got to go back to Vultovich is my last line of defense against Janice, Antecoompo. It's like, at the end of the day, I keep coming back to that, right? Who on this team is going to deal with Janus? And I think in the playoffs, that was the number one problem for everybody the Bucks

faced. It was the Janus issue. What do you do with this guy? Even the sons to a certain extent where it felt like, hey, Aitin's doing a pretty decent job. And as the series wore on, Janus on a bad leg, by the way, a bad wheel, just started dominating that matchup. And we don't think Aiton is a slouch in any way as far as defensively. So with the Bulls, it's like, man, are they going to be able to get enough stops against the bucks when they get really going downhill? And they have all of their guys.

And then, of course, Kyrie's back. I definitely don't think they're going to guard the next when Kyrie, K.D., and James Harden get that thing rolling. So I wonder if they make moves, you know, before the deadline to bring in some wing depth, maybe some heft in order to deal with the problems that they face in guys like KD and Yannis. Because those are the number one questions in the East, right? And I think the Bucks and the Nets are sort of, they only think about each other, right? It's like we keep Blake Griffin around because historically he's done a decent job against Janus, right?

It's very generous of you was. I'm just saying, you know, like all things considered. Obviously nobody can fucking stop Yonis. But I think that, you know, the Nets even, I mean, excuse me, not the Nets, the Bucks, even though they let P.J. Tucker go, I think part of their thinking was always, like, what are we going to do against guys like KD in the playoffs, right? And the type of people that they brought in, I don't think the Bulls even come into that consideration. They just don't think the Bulls can stop them.

It hasn't helped that a lot of the defensive stoppers that they've added to this team in order to kind of plug some of the holes they have in this roster are just dropping like flies. Like Patrick Williams is out. Now, Javonte Green is out. El Cruz is out. He's supposed to come back soon.

But, like, those are the guys they were hoping in order to complement some of the offensive juice that they have. there. I do think they're like kind of coming into this existential question here where it's like we have some of these vets. We need to prove to Levine that we can make a splash in the playoffs. Do we swing for the fences? Do we trade a Patrick Williams or some picks and lean more veteran? Or do we actually think about the long road ahead and don't do that and actually just go with the season, have a good time and then worry about the rest later? I think it's a really important question in the trajectory to determine like, are they going to be this one season wonder or are

Is this going to be a team with staying power beyond the season? I get why that question is coming up. And I know you can kind of split the difference sometimes with this stuff like the Warriors are doing where you have some young guys and you have your veterans. But to me, this was asked and answered when they traded for Vukovic. Like they got on the Vucovich de Rosen timeline. You can hold on to your young guys if you want. But even as someone who likes Patrick Williams, he might not be a meaningful playoff performer

for three years, you know? Yeah. And, you know, and Levine question to me was always a question of, are the bulls going to offer him the five-year 200 mill or are they not? Right. And if you're the bulls, I'm not making no decisions based on Zach Levine. I'm going to offer that man $220-something million and he's going to sit his ass down and be in Chicago. That's it. Right? And so I think you should be operating with the sense of, look, if I offer this guy the most amount of money possible, which shows him like, We think you're a franchise guy.

We think you're one of the elites in the league. We're going to pay you and reward you that way. And, you know, look what we did by bringing in these guys who have clearly improved the roster. Like, Lonzo, Caruso, and DeRosen, who all came in this offseason where Bulls acquisitions, all of them considered big-ass money at the time those deals were signed and it's paying dividends. So it's like, look, just give us a chance to keep doing this, building upon what we do. we're getting you whole as far as financially and ride this thing on now

and yeah, if it comes to moving a younger, y'all know I'm king, move the young guy. Get him out of here. Ship his ass out. Watt's all team ship his ass out. Ship him out. Ship his ass out. Get Andrew Bynum the hell about it.

He'd be DJ kid. Like, and here's the thing. You're 25 and 10 and we saw in the playoffs last year. When you're that close, you could be at a razor's edge. of getting to the freaking finals. Just look at the Phoenix Suns last year.

Two wins away from the finals, nobody before the season or going into the postseason, say for Rob Mahoney, thought that they had a realistic chance of winning the championship. And look how close they came to doing that. Granted, it's because of injuries,

it's because of luck and whatever, but that's sports. You got to be in it to win it. You got to put yourself in position to do that. And when you get this close, you're obviously, you know, of a high-quality team. And if you can improve upon this roster to put yourself in position to capitalize on some bad luck on other teams part, I think you got to do that.

And especially for the, I mean, Patrick Williams, come on. We're not talking about trading Zion Williamson here. You know, like, get out. Well, the Lakers did okay with Andrew Bynum. I'll just mention that that worked out. I will say the Lakers played their best when Andrew Bynum was not playing, honestly. Whenever they tried to do power and Bynum at the same time with Lamar, it was very clunky and nasty. They played their best without buying them, but that's neither hit nor there.

Yeah. We'll get that back in 2001 or something. Do you think it's going to be uncomfortable this offseason when the Bulls hand out a max or a supermax and it's not to their best player? Like, I have to say the Levine de Rosen thing has worked out way better than I ever assumed it would. Do we think that that partnership, the dueling banjo effects, has long-term sustainability? I mean, it's hard to imagine them fitting together any better than they have, but Levine can be a better player. Like, he still has room to grow, room to evolve. And I mean, God knows, DeMar's been changing his game over the last five years more than a lot of veterans we've ever seen.

So the idea that they could find even more synergy, I think is somewhat realistic. Like, I think they can still find ways to tinker and evolve and grow as a pairing and as a tandem. And I'm not so sure that DeRosen is their best player. Like, he's awesome. and he's like front and center because of what he does. But to be a shooter like Zach Levine who can play off the ball and be as flexible as he is, that might be more valuable to a team than what DeRosen does.

Yeah, and I think their games are actually pretty complimentary of each other in the sense that, you know, DeRosen in San Antonio made himself into a guy who can play make. That wasn't even what he did. He was just just straight up hired gun damn near, you know, back in the days in Toronto. So, Zach Levine is not yet. He can make that first easy read.

He doesn't make the sort of way tougher reads, the past before the past type of stuff. I don't think he's of that level yet. And I think DeRosen is closer to doing that. And I think Levine's gravity off the ball and his movement helps what DeRose is trying to do in the mid-range in pick and roll, right? Like, I think it frees him up to have a guy who's that dangerous off the ball. I think they're complimenting each other. I think where the rubber, you know, meets the road is like, are these guys going to guard enough, man?

Like, again, and I hate to sound like a freaking purist with this, but like, look, if your three best guys have to play together, and it is DeRosen, it is Levine and his vooch, that's where I get worried about. I think on offense, they're fine. Like, DeRosen gets to his spots. Levine is the hell of a shooter. When he needs to, he can be a one-on-one guy.

He's turned himself into. to a guy who gets to the cup all the time as well, I think on offense they're fine. You know, right now they're fifth in offensive efficiency. I think in defense, when teams are able to gain plan for what your weaknesses are on a night-to-night basis and pinpoint it, you know, and just hit that thing with a needle, I just, I don't know. It was tough watching the Magic game the other night when you saw Franz Wagner and Wendell Carter,

Jr., kind of thriving in a new environment, just wondering if, like, those guys were in place of Vuch and wondering like what could have been. I know Rob is just like ready to just shoot this down there, but Wagner has been pretty incredible as a rookie. Well, you're pitting my appreciation for Franz Wagner against my appreciation of Nicole Vujovich. So it's tough. But I mean, it was tough watching the magic game the other day.

Incredible evergreen statement this season. Wouldn't I recommend watching Orlando Magic basketball? They're frisky, though. I mean, they're trying. Tim Frazier, back and better than ever. They got a lot of hardship guys in there. I think, I do think, Vooch has not been great,

but how many times have we seen in the playoffs and lamented, oh, this team just needs like a pressure release big because their guys are getting doubled and swarmed and shaded against. I think that's the value you're hoping from him. You're hoping for floor spacing, pressure release.

And the last time he was in the playoffs against a very different version of the bucks, a much less confident one, he was kind of awesome. It was in the bubble. It was different, again, putting up numbers for a magic team that was never going to win.

in. But I think he could help them. I think he can be a real asset in a playoff series or hopefully multiple for the Bulls. Right. Right. I'll just say circling back to the De Rosen Levine thing, only one of them is going to make All-Star starter. And those type of things I think are going to matter long term. I don't think it makes a difference this season. Obviously, they're on the same page and they're thriving offensively. I just, I do wonder like just the personalities and the chemistry and whatnot, what goes on there when DeRosen is front and center of this Bulls resurgence. Just saying Well, apparently DeMarrozen might make it at guard despite never playing guard this season. So that's for now.

Congrats. Let's stay in the east just briefly here. This is a bit of a two-hander because these are two teams kind of making waves for vastly different reasons. What's more likely the cabs finish in the top six of the Hawks missed the playoffs. And Wazz, this one is all for you, my friend. Look, I think the calves, it's more likely that they make the six seed. then the Hawks missed the playoffs. But the Hawks thing is, we've reached

DefCon level here. Travis Schlank goes on a radio show and says, maybe I shouldn't have brought all these cats back? Unreal. Unreal. If that's not like an indictment of what they're doing this season, it's a lot. And, you know, there's so much going on.

Like, they've had so many injuries. They've had so much of the COVID stuff hit them. But, you know, most importantly, it's just like they should be better than the 27th best defense in the NBA. I think the theory of this team coming into the season was that the season turned around last year when they became in a league average defense. When they were hovering around 14 through 17 on defense and, you know, they obviously could score. You know, the good news is they're a top five NBA offense, which is great. Everybody wants a top five NBA offense, but it's just been so bad. And the bottom line is, I don't, you can't chalk it up to talent.

Look, when, and again, you, the theory coming in, a Congo and the playoffs looked amazing on defense, right? In rim protection, and switching out onto smaller guys on the perimeter. He looked like, oh, wow, like this is truly a plus defender. Hunter, of course, before the meniskin. and all of that stuff. He was showing, like, elite wing defense. Cam Reddish is a huge guy.

He's not great on defense, but he's not, he should not be a problem defensively, given his talent, given his size, whatever. Even a guy like Whiter, who I think solid defensive because he's huge, he's not the fleet of foot, but, like, he's huge. Collins, you know, Capell, like, these guys should be able to muster up

league average defense with this group, and it just has, not been there. The perimeter defense has been just basically a turnstile. And, you know, sorry, guys like Collins and Capella have not done a decent enough job cleaning it up on the back end. And so it's just compounded itself to be just awful. And just watching it with the eye test, they don't look like they're giving it they're all. We can harken back to some of the statements that Trey Young made where he's like, I mean, after you play in the freaking conference finals and you know what the intensity of those games are.

You know, I don't know, playing against Portland, literally on a Tuesday night, just doesn't feel like life of death to us, right? But it's getting to the point where, you know, they started the season 14 and 20 last year, fired the freaking coach. They're 16 and 20 now, okay? And the answer can't be to fire Nate McMillan. Oh, good.

Can it after they just sign this guy to a new deal? Like, I don't know. I'm running out of answers for these guys. Well, you know, last year was a big question of, did we underestimate some of these defenders? And they're just like willingness to compete on defense. And the answer we're getting is maybe we didn't. Maybe us and Travis Schlenk,

maybe we're kind of looking at this roster sideways. And as you're saying, it's not for lack of ability. It's just like they are not invested or locked in or connected at all defensively. Do you know who didn't overestimate them? This guy. armchair GM Justin Verrier.

I wish we had the time to cut back to our preseason podcast when I was casting doubt on the Hawks resurgence. I mean, Trey Young is incredible. Like, just what an absolute spectacular run, literally carrying the entire team up in Portland the other night. But yeah,

it's been disappointing. I guess if you wanted to be an optimist and you wanted to cast a shred of doubt on some of the pessimism, like, who is actually playing for this team now? I couldn't watch more than the first quarter that Blazers is. game because there just wasn't anybody out there.

Like, I'm glad that Lance Stevenson is no longer getting minutes, but like they haven't necessarily upgraded to the point where, like, they're starting even like guys you recognize. So is, like, their hope there where you could get the full compliment of guys that they can turn this around? I think, look, I think having a full complimenter guys would go a long way for this team, right? But again, this is, this is sports. This is the NBA. This is, you know, a war of attrition with 82 games.

Like, this is kind of what the. reality is of modern basketball. Also, I think it needs to be said as great as Tray Young has been. I wonder how much his ownership of the offense has to do with guys not wanting to do shit on the other end. Because I think about a flip side of this, and it's not a one-to-one comparison, but I do think about Golden State and the level of buying that they get from guys. And the fact that Steph does not dominate the ball.

He's one of the greatest players, offensive players. He's easily one of the 10 best offensive players in the history of this fucking sport. And he does not dominate the ball. Granted, they have a generational guy on defense, Jemar Green, who's the best defensive player of his generation, on defense quarterbacking and coaching that thing.

But I wonder how much the best guy not being ball dominant and the ownership that people like pool and Wiggins and others get to have within the offense, even the GP2, you know, like, I wonder how much ownership they get to have in the office, how much that translates into the level of effort they're willing to give on the other end, whereas the Hawks, nobody gets to do anything but Tray Young.

And I'm just, you know, just as somebody who thinks about how teams come together and gel and, like, what it means to have buying on defense. Why should I have buying on defense? when I don't get to do anything else. You know, I wonder how much that affects the defense event. It's a great reminder of the power of knowing who you are bringing into your team. Because the Hawks have scouted talent magnificently well.

They've gotten a lot of really good NBA players. But you're bringing in Bogdan Bogdanovich, who was kind of buried in Sacramento and wasn't allowed to do everything he could do. You got a guy like Cam Reddish, who was very famously kind of in the shadow of another star. You've even got a guy like Clint Capon. Pella who has played with someone who dominates the ball before and controls the offense and James Hardin, but maybe that means he was hoping to do a little more this time. And so, like, just psychologically, the people you are bringing into your team, you have to know

who they are and what they want and on some level how they're going to react to a situation like this over time and whether they are going to buy into this stuff beyond one magical kind of season. You know, there's this defensive specialists, I know, who is available for work. and he plays technically for a team that could use a couple aggregated parts and picks in order to potentially change the face of their team to be a little bit more defensively inclined. So I ask you guys,

Ben Simmons, is he the answer in Atlanta? Because on the one hand, like, yeah, Trey and him might clash over, like, who is running the show and handling the ball. On the other hand, maybe Trey, like, grazes into his Steph Curry years

where he's playing more off the ball, Maybe he doesn't do it as much as stuff, but he adds that element more to it, which is kind of what he was already kind of working in with Bogdan being there and all these other guys being there to begin with. Does it make the team, does the team make more sense with a Ben Simmons and some of these other guys that are jostling for control? You know, I wonder, because if it doesn't involve sending John Collins over there, the redundancies as far as straight up non-shooters,

And not that John Collins is a non-shooter, he's not, but I think he's best as a rim runner. There's no freaking contending that fact. Where it's like, am I playing Simmons, Collins, and Capella, right? And I think at that point it's like, Trey Young is so genius at offense. We're going to muster enough offense and defense becomes the calling card. I don't know. I think Ben Simmons, what he does defensively would unlock a bunch. I'd want to see Collins at the five, Simmons at the four, and, you know, whatever wing depth they could muster after that trade.

Obviously, Cam Reddish would probably be a part of that deal. Who knows? I don't know. You know what I'm saying? I think Tray Young and Simmons actually do make sense with each other as a pick and roll pair for both of those guys. I think there is some complementary aspects to their games. I think how the rest of the roster is constructed around those two guys, two guys who need the ball to thrive,

or traditionally that's been the case, you know, I think you've got to be precise about how you construct that thing, but I wouldn't be opposed to a simic thing. But again, is Philadelphia going to be satisfied with, like, Cam Reddish and a trillion future first? It would probably have to be Collins. Collins would probably have to be the centerpiece.

And then I guess you have to have the conversation of Collins and Embed, is that, like, to build through the front court with two bigs? Is that the way you want to go? Like, it could be like Collins and Reddish. I don't know the contract's off the top of my head, but that could be the start of something. I kind of doubt John Collins is on the list of, like, the 20 guys the Sixers went up played for. All due respect to John Collins, who I think is very good, but not quite what they're in the market for.

I love John Collins. I don't think it's what the Sixers are trying to do. And again, especially when you consider the guy. who's really fucking up this season, Tobias Harris, plays John Collins' position. You know, like, he's a four at this point. You know, I just don't, I don't know. I kind of forgot about Tobias Harris, honestly.

So it would have to be a three-way trade. Yeah. I mean, Philly's ready to get rid of Tobias Harris. They were booing the other night, so it's totally fine. That's quite obvious. I want to talk about the Cavs, though, quickly before we turn the page there, because they're still beyond, like,

what anyone had expected. I'm hanging in here. They were in the top four just a couple days ago, but they've sunk to 21 and 17 here. They're sixth right now. I'm very high on the calves. I think like few things really surprise you throughout the course of a regular season. And the bulls and the calves are two of the biggest surprises we've had in like the past five to 10 years. I'm a little worried, though, because guys are dropping like flies now.

Like Isaac O'Coro was out for a couple of weeks. And obviously, Ricky Rubio has the torn ACL. And I think it's a bad sign whenever a team convinces themselves that, Rajan Rondo is the answer. Like, it feels like we've been doing this for eight years now, and he's only really made good on it once during the NBA bubble. And I don't think we are now two years removed from that, that that can still happen.

You know what I'll make a trade for Rajan Rondo, though, is when you have to start multiple games with Kevin Pangoes is basically your entire guard rotation. They were already getting guys out there the other night in their loss of the Grizzlies where I'm just like, who? So they are also. experiencing some COVID losses, but overall, like when the

dust clears, I guess, I'm not sure if they're a top 16. They're a playoff team for sure. Rob, what do you think? Well, the big thing is they got Darius Garland back. And as long as he's out there with their bigs, they're really competitive. That's, yeah, that's exactly what came

to mind, Rob, is that once Garland's out there and Mobley and Jared Allen are anchoring that damn defense, that's winning formula because, you know, it's not just that Garland has become that three-level score, right, where I got to pull up three on your ass, I got to pull up the mid-range on you, and I get to the cup.

And now, you know, you can't shade defenders around me because I'm going to find dudes now, right? And so he's making the job of the ancillary pieces so much easier because he is setting them up so expertly. You know, when you defense, like, Mowgli is straight up just a fucking plus defender. Like, he's just played like somebody who's all defense as a rookie. That's crazy. So when that's the foundation of what you got as a 60, like two straight up plus big defenders, especially in a regular season where not everybody is employing the dames, the kairis, the stefes,

that destroy these conservative pick-and-roll type of defenses where it's like so oriented about parking yourself in the paint, right? Like the type of guards that can exploit those type of defenses in the regular season when you're not playing that on a night-to-night basis where it's like, all right, Cole Anthony, try to beat us. Look, I like what they got. I think they definitely once, you know, as long as Garland is able to stay, if they're three best guys are able to stay healthy,

I think they're going to be straight. Well, and if we want to go back to this game that Justin has created for us of these two possibilities, you know, the Cavs finishing in the top six or the Hawks missing the playoffs, only one can happen. That's how the world works. I was going to say, I think both are pretty high probability outcomes at this point because the Hawks, the Hawks not only have to, you know, leapfrog the Knicks, leapfrog one of these other four teams that are already in a playoff spot. Then they have to win some play in games just to get in the mix. There's so many trap doors here for the Hawks that I, I, just don't believe in them versus who are the calves, like who's their real competition for this spot? Because I think there are scenarios in which if Joelle and B has any more injuries this season,

the Sixers aren't even a lock for five. So there's a little cushion for the calves to even move up potentially. So unless you're really sold on like the Hornets or the Wizards, I just don't see a lot of serious competition there. Hold that thought because I want to flip to our next question, our last question here, which is name one team good or bad,

that could surprise you the rest of the way. How about the Toronto Raptors? The Fred Van Vleet experience is back. My guy is putting up 30 a night is looking like an all-star lock at this point. And it just seems like they've found something. It's like they've gone to this lineup where everybody is like six, eight and long as hell, except for Fred Van Vleet. And like it just works defensively.

They're a bit compromised. And it's weird to say that the Raptors aren't making their bones on defense or even very good on defense, but it's kind of incredible. Siakum came back and he's really good. So they're a team that I could see. They're now 500 exactly with the top 10 offense. I could see them having a second half resurgence. And as I also predicted in the preseason,

I think that they're just, their competence and just their overall talent they have in their team can get them past. I seem like the hornets and the wizards and maybe even the Celtics, who all have like something going for them, but I think they're flawed in certain ways or maybe just like too young. or dare I say green in order to get over the hump into the top six.

We are in total alignment on the Raptor's second half surge. It is coming. Beautiful. Prepare yourself. I think the only question is like at what point are we going to put ourselves out on the limb and say they're going to be the eighth seed in the playoffs? Like can they show us that to put us over the top on that kind of prediction? We'll have to see.

But I'm with you. The smaller lineup has looked great. Just kind of juggling around some of what they're doing in terms of starting has worked really well for them. they're an interesting case and I think a team that has proven something during this stretch of kind of dead and mostly useless basketball

of interchangeable replacement players because last season their whole campaign was sidetracked by their experience with COVID and guys getting knocked out of the lineup but just obliterated their season last year in Tampa. Yeah, partying in Tampa. This is what happens when you go to Tampa.

You get obliterated. But this season, they've had a lot of guys out of the lineup. I think only three teams have had more players lost, more player games lost so far to COVID-related absences so far. And they survived it. They've gotten guys back. They're starting to look more fully formed again.

And at this point, they're playing 500 basketball for the season. They have a better point differential than teams like the Lakers and Clippers. I'm starting to see some cause for optimism with this group. Yeah, and I think what the Raptors show is that, like, institutional stability and competency matter, right? Like, the dude at the tippy top is as competent as he gets in the league. And Nick Nurse continues to prove himself to be, like, straight up one of the best coaches in the NBA. It's not just that he's coaching guys up. He's just always willing to try shit.

Like, you guys are talking about this basically Fred Van Vlita's AI-centric type of lineups, right? It's like, we just throw a bunch of defenders out there, and Fred Vland-Bleet will lead his home. as absurd as that sounds like, but Nick Earths is one of the only guys in the league who's going to try this, right? And he's going to convince his guys that this is something, this is an avenue worthwhile trying to pursue. So I think that's what this speaks to is like, these guys organizationally are so buttoned up, you know, from top to bottom that you can get these results in a wacky-ass

season like this. We're like, nobody comes in a season thinking, like, you know, Pascal Seaccombe and Fred Van are the keys to 500 NBA basketball? Like, really? Like, that just seems absurd as a concept. But, you know, as somebody who's president of Fred Van Villee fan club, like, it's dope to see. And I think, you know, if anybody can exploit the just idiocy

that we see on a night-to-night basis from regular season NBA teams is definitely the Raptors. So, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if they finished, you know, with 44 wins throughout the season. I wouldn't be surprised. I think, you know, another team that we got here is the heat, which I think they're just like a decently healthy stretch from, you know, asserting themselves as a serious, the most serious non-Brooklyn Milwaukee team in the league. But they just, Jimmy Butler just went out again with a freaking ankle, right? Bam's been gone forever now. Who knows when he's even coming back?

I think once they get their group together, this is going to be the team that we see take the hell off. Yeah, the heat seemed like a sleeping giant here. I mean, as much as I love Omer Yurtseven and what he's contributing of late, it just seems like there's a lot of teams that have fallen back as a result of some of their COVID absences and like what they've had to do,

jubbling lineups with the heat are just like incredible still. It's like they actually gave the wars a pretty firm push the other night. And I looked at the line of them like, I don't know who any of these people are except for Tyler Hero. So like they have to be feeling pretty good, I guess, unless those, the Jimmy, the BAM injuries end up being long term. Rob, anybody else you want to mention here? No one in particular. I think the Raptors are the big one. I think we're kind of at the point in the season where most of the standings are feeling pretty stable.

We have a good idea of who the contenders are. We have a lot of these teams in the middle that haven't really shown us enough to be optimistic in them. So the big question is going to be for these teams like the Hawks, can they figure something out? Can these bubble teams, is there anyone in that group who can go from fringe playing team to knocking on the door of a six seat in their conference? That's kind of the area of the standings I'm looking at over these next couple weeks. The crazy thing about some of these middling teams like, you know, the Mavs who continue to show like when they're making shots, they're a pretty tough team to deal with. I think if Luca were just like a rung,

worst and amazing that he's shown, in the past, that would have been the type of team was like, man, this might be fire sale time. Like, straight up, like, let's just start this rebuild. This kid is still 22 years old. Like, let's just get started on a freaking rebuild, right? Like, we thought we were going to be a team that mattered. Let's fire cell.

I just think we don't see. that anymore. So it's tough to imagine, like, the beneficiaries of that type of fire sale would be, you know, teams like the Lakers thirsty to improve or teams like, you know, the Hawks thirsty to improve. Back in the days, they would have been the beneficiary of this. But, like, because Denver's just like, we can't blow this up. We just put a bunch of money into Michael Porter Jr. eventually Jamal Murray's going to come back. Like, these teams can't blow up what they're doing. They can't sell off their spare parts. So I think that's another thing that we're seeing of just like this logjam of mediocrity in the middle. It's like nobody really feels the impetus to be like, let's start this thing all over. I mean, Portland is on watch, I think. They are teetering at this point. But would them being even worse be surprising? Like, they've already been so bad this season. I guess trading C.J. McCollum at some point could be something that could happen. Yeah, if you're assuming that you're going to rebuild around Dame or

Dame is going to be hurt for the remainder of the year, why not just pack it in, play for the pick and like kind of reboot or reset going into next season, which actually brings me to another team I wanted to mention just briefly, but the Sacramento Kings are firmly, firmly, and by that I mean half a game in the play in tournament field right now. And I just get the vibe that they're going to do something really fucking stupid. Like they're the clear example of a team that is so thrilled to be where they are and just the fact that they are relevant and they have enough distance from

Let me stop you. Alvin Gentry doesn't seem super thrilled to be where he is. He does that every night. I think people are just going to have to realize that he calls every game that they lose an embarrassment and the worst thing he's ever done. He's had a hundred worst games he's ever coached before.

And if anyone ever bothered to care about the teams that he coached, then people would realize this by now. But like, I do think like there's enough fisciness and enough there and enough motivation that like we're we're teetering on a ben simmons esk trade where it's like yeah let's go for this right now although i have to mention with the ben simmons uh standoff or wherever we are in this hostage crisis uh it's just it's really a damning sign when we come up with new teams that could potentially trade for simmons and we still can't find a fit like we were talking

about the hawks earlier and it still wasn't quite right and like the calves are our team i think people have mentioned is like, oh, they're ready to take the next step, but then it's like, oh, they have five big men. It's like, we're at like 25 teams at this point where it's just like a complete no-go. So it's just like, this is never happening. Speaking of which, just to end this soliloically here, last team I would mention the Philadelphia 76ers, in particular, Joel Embed, who is absolutely fucking dominating of late. And Bid is on a run here where you're just like marveling at like just how a big man could move

the way he does. He has very much like the defensive tackle who's like 350 pounds, but can like chase guys down in the open field sort of vibes here where he's like Euro stepping everybody and bringing the ball up the court. And maybe this is another podcast. But like, holy shit, if they just get him one to two more good players, the team could be very good. Yeah, it's a good thing. Darrell Mori has four years to figure out how to make the team as good as possible as Joelle and Bede plays like Will Chamberlain on a night-to-night basis, right? Like, it's a good thing they have all the time in the world with a guy who doesn't have a shady injury pass at all.

Like, they have all the time in the world to figure out how to maximize what's going on with one of the best bigs we've all ever seen. But no, yeah, it's, you know, and I got to give them as props to Joelle and Bede in the sense that as much as we talk about superstars and waxing, effort levels on different teams, like, on a team this messy and discombobulated,

Jo Ellen B. coming out and be like, no, I'm just gonna fucking kill people every single night. I gotta give him his props for that. And I know some people might say, well, that's what he gets paid the big bucks for, whatever. Say what you want. He's doing it. And he's executing it on a very high level to the point where, you know, it shines a microscope on everybody around him. Like, all right, you can say what you want about the results,

but this guy is clearly excellent. So everybody else is just like, all right, are you guys holding up your end of the bargain? And that goes from his GM to his coach, to his co-star, allegedly, Tobias Harris, to everybody on down. So you got to give Joelle's props for delivering. Tobias Harris, just taking strays all over this podcast today.

But hold on, Rob Mahoney. It's about damn time, though. You know, this guy is part of the reason they ran Jimmy Butler out of town. You know, he's part of the reason why they're in the position that they're in. They've committed maximum money to a dude who's like 18 points a game

and literally nothing else. That's crazy. That's crazy. He doesn't do anything else for your team. besides the occasional mid-range pull-up, he's not some plus defender, he's not killing it on the boards for you. It's not like you could be like,

all right, go guard LeBron, go card KD, go card Paul George. Like, he doesn't do any of this for you. He's not shooting threes at volume. Like, he's, what? And nor is he the guy who's like, okay, in this difficult playoff situation, can you read this three-on-two

and successfully navigate it to find the open man? No, hell no. There's just issues all over with him. And as you hit while, it's like, Embedd is so good that everyone else has put on notice. Everyone else's flaws are magnified because they just have to be a little bit better and they could be real contenders. They could be a really, really great team. They just don't have it right now.

They're still one or two players away. There's still a shadow of Ben Simmons away. Four years. We got four years to do this, Rob. Yeah. Four years, Embedge's knees are going to look like Wilk Chamberlains. He's going to be wearing like the volleyball pads and whatnot. Take four years to perfect, y'all.

All right. We'll be back sooner than four years. We'll be back on our regular Wednesday edition. Until then, thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. We'll see you next time.