The Ringer NBA Show - Taking News: Training Camp Edition | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 2, 2020

Justin, Rob, and Tjarks are joined by The Athletic’s Zach Harper to take some news. They compete against each other to have the best takes on the positive coronavirus tests that have already appeared prior to the season starting (1:00), Kemba Walker’s knee injury (12:00), Kevin Durant denying having had conversations with James Harden about joining the Nets (22:00), David Griffin saying they want to play Zion at the three (32:30), the uncertainty around John Collins’ potential contract extension in Atlanta (43:00), Schroder telling the German press he wants to start for the Lakers (51:00), and the recently released Christmas Day schedule (01:00:00). And don't forget to go find the new feed for 'The Mismatch' on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Jonathan Tjarks Guest: Zach Harper Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat, the ringer's weekly NBA group discussion where the key is always to not have positive people. I am Justin Verrier and joining me today, Jonathan Sharks. What up guys? Rob Mahoney. Justin, just excited to get back out there. You know, we really got a great group of guys this year. We brought in a great guest. I've always respected his game. I've always respected him as a competitor. I think the sky's the limit for us on this pod today. Yeah, we're willing to play fast this year and he can definitely push the tempo. You may know him. from the Daily Dime Live, cover it live chats, and also many other things, including The Athletic and radio shows and all the other stuff. But he's Zach Harper.

What's up, man? Hey, what's up, guys? What a pleasure to be here. Yes, I could tell. You seem very excited. Today we're going to bounce around some news from I think it's training camp or it's almost training camp.

It's media Zoom week in the NBA because the season is already upon us. We're going to go through a couple items. that have popped up from some of these media sessions and find the perfect take for all of them. All that coming up next. We are here. We are ready to take.

We are going to go around some of the most important news items that have popped up around the league. And we are going to do this by trying to find who can find the best take, the right take. There's always one that just rises above them all. we're going to pitch a couple of them, whoever has the best ideas. And Sasha, our intrepid producer, is going to rate them and pick out the best one. The first one is a very lighthearted subject.

The COVID absences have started already in the NBA. The Warriors had to move the starter training camp because they had two positive tests. The Wizards had a positive test. Mo Bamba, believe it or not, is still dealing with the positive test that I think that he had in the bubble. Steve Clifford said he's a ways away, which sounds pretty dark here. So on that note, Zach, do you have a take for this? I was hoping I get to start. Yeah, that's good. Man, do we love money?

Right? Like, that is, that's a take because that's what you see with all sports right now. Like, we're getting a Wednesday afternoon NFL game pretty soon. We're getting, you know, we're getting celebrations in baseball where we know the guys got COVID and we just don't care. Things are surge in this country. So why not have COVID problems? And that's going to be the tricky thing for the season, right? And that's why they're rolling out the first half of the schedule before they even come up with the second half of the schedule is because they know they're going to have to build in, you know, COVID breaks, right? They're going to have to build in postponing games and making them up and probably back to back to backs and all that.

And it's all about money. And it's always about money. Like I don't want to pretend like, oh, it's been about the love of the game. No, it's a billion dollar business. It's always been about money. but this just shows, like, when Mo Bomba is like a ways away from coming back from something that he had, what, six months ago or whenever that was, like, it's a reminder of like, oh, yeah, this is serious. I have a proposal because that's right. It is all about money. I think the NBA should give team special dispensation to give any player who stays in their room on a road trip a bonus. Jack up that per diem. There's a take. You know, we're going to put the police crime scenes.

seal sticker on the door. If you open it at any point before the game, you lose your bonus. That's fine. You opt into it. But if it stays sealed, you get $500. Add it to your, added to your per DM for the day. Let's, let's rack it up. Don't underestimate the allure of a couple hundred bucks in somebody's pocket. And let's keep everybody safe in the process. What about home games? Would that qualify, like the front door of your house? I think you got to do it road only or else we're getting into some police state territory pretty quickly. Yeah, because other than that, it sounds, it sounds not police state at all, right? Like, we're going to seal up your hotel room.

Hey, it's optional. It's optional. Can I play devil's advocate here? So not to be the one to be like, oh, yeah, people getting sick from COVID is totally fine. Were we not expecting some of these positive tests to come just as soon as everybody comes back into the building, especially after the holidays? Like, I don't know how many will ultimately get and how many will get publicly. But I think you would expect some people to show up and test positive. positive. But isn't that stupid? Like, I'm not saying your question stupid, but like, isn't that

whole idea of like, well, of course people are going to get COVID. It's out there. And it's like, I had a holiday where I didn't get COVID. I managed to do it and I'm stupid. Right. Like, I'm an idiot. You guys know. Like, I'm not a smart person. I managed to have a holiday Thanksgiving without getting COVID. Like, it's still all up to choices in this country and choice that well around the world too, but especially this country. And like, people are just choosing to like, I want to live my life. Like, I don't, I don't, like, yes, you have to build that into whatever this process is going to be. But I don't, I don't know that we should just blindly like pass over like, well, yeah, of course people are going to get COVID.

We could not. We could not get COVID. You're also an Instagram influencer. So you know that the people out there are just getting out. No, I mean, I'm not making so much a moral judgment about whether or not people should be safe because I obviously think they should be. Like, I don't leave my house. Like, I didn't even before COVID. Yeah, but that was before.

Yeah. That was no sacrifice for you. You're a blogger. But I think teams would have to expect that there would be some players who did this. And so here's like an actual real world repercussion of this. I do wonder, and this could be a take, even though it is a bit mild, like will depth be more important in this NBA season? I wonder if a team like the Hawks who loaded up on every single position to the point where the last player in the roster is probably Chris Dunn at this point. I do wonder if teams like that have a built-in advantage to paper over some of the absences I imagine every team's going to have.

Also, maybe teams where players don't like each other have an advantage because they're farther apart away from the game, right? So like 15 players, 15 cabs. Do that for real this year. It'll be like the early 2000s Lakers, yeah. Yeah, if you could get Jimmy Butler back on the wolves, they'd be amazing. That would be fantastic. No, because you'd just be screaming and spraying. That's true to be projecting all of this COVID.

I guess the Knicks are in trouble. If Tibbs get set, it's everywhere. Yeah. I mean, I just think the main thing here is it doesn't really build a lot of optimism or excitement leading into these games coming back. Well, I did find that kind of whole line of thinking a bit more persuasive when we were talking about the bubble, the idea that, oh, this is the system working as intended when players showed up and started testing positive for the bubble. Because then once they get inside, they're safe. This is just what the league is going to be. for the next few months. It's going to be guys constantly in and out. It's going to be tests popping up

all over the place. And to pretend that there was no COVID influence, even in the bubble, I think it's a misnomer. It just wasn't among the players and the staff. It was among the people who were working in those events. So there's, you know, we got a long way to go to even stage NBA games. Well, also, I don't know that I would include the staff on that in the bubble because we only got reports. We only got things from the NBA were like, no players tested positive. I was like, yeah, but there's like thousands of people there. We should get some kind of update on those people as well, and the league just kept it very much to like, hey, these 450 dudes, or I guess

330 or whatever it was at that point, like, these guys are good. But yeah, on top of that too, like, yeah, we're expecting positive test. That was going to happen. The Moamba thing is the important one, right? Like the long-term issue. That's the concern. Because even like, if he's healthy in a month from now, this was

an important off-season for him. He's coming into his third year. He's not been great at all as a player. He needed to get better this off-season. He couldn't even work out. That's the concern. It's like, three, four, five years from now, a guys who had COVID, most of these things are going to come and go, but it's the long-term stuff, that's the issue, obviously.

Yeah, he was already bad. I mean, can you imagine? That's not a bad, but you know what I mean. No, I'm only kidding. Yeah, that's scary when things like that happen. And I haven't paid too much attention to football because I've tried to find somewhat of a break from sports during the week or two we've had off here.

But, like, I mean, you guys are in the heart of Dallas. like it seems like things aren't going very well. They're not going well anywhere, Justin. Let's be real. We're just wearing cowboy hats out here. That's the only difference. Well, it puts a brave face on it. Okay, any other takes that we haven't gotten off here?

Will this make the regular season even less relevant than or less interesting than prior? Because it will be interesting because we're going to have a lot of like gymnastics to do in terms of getting the season completed. but I think you're going to see a lot of guys out. I think the point about depth is important because I think you're going to see a lot of these 12th, 13th guys on the roster getting minutes throughout, and I wonder how good the product's going to be. I think the playoffs will be good,

but I wonder how good the product's going to be up until we get into that push for the playing tournament. Could it make it less interesting to watch but more relevant in the long run? Because if some great teams wind up in the wrong side of the playoff bracket, it wind up losing home court advantage because of all this. I mean, if you have players who are out with COVID for potentially a couple weeks at a time,

like a lot of people in the league are kind of earmarking around three weeks as a potential possibility for some of these guys. With the way the schedule is compressed, you could miss a lot of games really quickly, which could tilt a lot of the regular season standings. I guess I'll go full hipster here. This is a year for 15th, man. It's exciting, right? Second round draft picks, two-way contracts. Let's break them down.

Bring back Jeff Withy. Yeah. It's going to be a lot of G-League Ignite blogs sprouting up over the next couple days. Yeah, I also wonder what the effect is going to be on the awards race. Like, we've always said, like, the player who's just available the most has an advantage. And Luca kind of spoke to this, where he's basically like what I referenced in the top here, just that the team that isn't going to have the positive tests are going to probably have an advantage here. So I don't know.

I'm not too thrilled about the basketball to come. At the very least, it seems like, I guess when the Lakers are building depth in their team, I think that's a bad sign. Sorry, Sasha. On that note, would you like to rate our takes? Who won? I would.

I've had only one on my mind for the past few minutes, and that is bring on the police state. I think that is a fantastic idea. I think we should do this. I think this is great. players are like sad they aren't getting as much money this year you know let's put a piece of crime scene tape across their hotel doors and then inject a few hundred bucks into their bank accounts i think it's a fantastic idea rob honestly it's a good idea thank you everybody wins yeah we could call it the

andrew miller rule because he used to always use like save his per diem and just do the media dining before games right so legend yeah all right now on to a much more cheery topic kemble walker perhaps has a knee injury that could sideline his entire career. Yeah. So Kimba Walker is out at least until January after receiving stem cell injections in his left knee. This is the same knee that bothered him going into the bubble. The more dire part of this is that although they don't expect surgery, Danny Aange, was basically like, we'll see this year if this is going to be a lingering thing.

he also, as we remember, probably tried to trade him. It's unclear what rumors or what with the Celtics, but it did seem like he was willing to do that. So I'm going to go with this one, and I'm just going to fast forward here. I think the take is that Jason Tatum is going to win MVP or is going to become the Dark Horse MVP canon de Jure quite quickly. Because if you think about it,

it's all about the narrative, especially this year if we're talking about absences being key just to the race. I imagine he's going to take a leap forward without Gordon Hayward there to share the ball

without Kemba there to share the ball. I don't know. It just shapes up that we don't expect much for the Celtics this year. If they get the two seed or something, he's dropping 28 points a game.

It's like, oh, Jason Tatum, rose above what was expected of him and he's just our guy. He's our guy this year. What do you guys think? I think I'll spin it forward a bit. Basically, like, what you're saying, Justin,

it had to happen one way or the other, right? Like, Boston couldn't be Kemba Walker's team anymore, no matter what. Like, I would say, because, like, last year in the playoffs, it was kind of like, is it Kemba taking the last shot, or is it Ham taking the last shot? It was just weird kind of back and forth energy. And, like, the reality is if your closer is 5 foot 11, it's like a closer in baseball home, like an 80-mile or fastball.

Like, it's just not going to work in the playoffs anyways. So it's got to be Tatum's team. it's got to happen at some point, might as well be now. I have a different take that I'd like to offer up. This is a make or break year for Danny Aege's reputation. In that he tried to trade, like I reported this for the athletic

in the one time of year I do reporting where he tried to trade Kemba to the Bulls for the fourth pick. He tried to trade Kemba to the Cavs for the fifth pick because they were trying to get Drew Holiday. And the asking price at the time was you need a top 10 pick, except everybody with the top.

top 10 pick knew they couldn't resign Drew Holiday, so no one was really flooding that market for the Pelicans. And then the Bucks blew that up by saying, here's five picks, right? Here's control of half a decade of worse of draft. And then Danny Angel's like, I'm not going to do that. And everyone else was like, I'm not going to do that. But in doing that, it's another example of we had this injured guy. We brought him back too early. We played him too much in the playoffs. And now we're trying to move them. They did it with Isaiah Thomas and everyone freaked out, right? They completely flipped out because, you know, everyone loves IT and oh my God, you know, the death of his sister and he played so heroically and all this stuff, which was all true. But then, like, they played him to,

they played him like 14 games after that, that death of his sister game and ran his hip into the ground and he'll miss out on hundreds of millions of dollars because of it, right? And that got kind of soured like a lot of players' thoughts on the Celtics. And I think it was a factor. I think Anthony Davis would just want to be a Laker and, you know, there's a whole Rich Paul connection. But I also think that that was. was a factor in like, you know, I don't think it was a major factor, but it was a significant factor on some level of like, maybe I don't want to be a Celtic. And now if you're doing this again with Kemba, another beloved guy around the league, like I think Danny Aange, if he doesn't

handle this, this Kemba injury properly, just in terms of getting him back on the court, if they rush him back at all and something bad happens to Kemba, like, I think players are really going to look at the Celtics franchise sideways. Yeah, I thought it was interesting, even in that press conference that he gave yesterday, he kind of admitted that they weren't really sure if they took the right approach with Kembo, which was pretty scary. And I think to your point, Zach, like, if he didn't have this reputation, if he wasn't so vaunted, like, would we be looking at him sideways? I was getting flashbacks to the Pelican situation where they let guys do this. I mean, they let Quincy Pondexter play through a playoff series, and he literally was never the same,

although he, like, and he came back with the spurs like three seasons later, and his legs were like toothpicks. Like, they, it was legitimately different. And so, yeah, it's kind of a scary situation. And it doesn't help that he's turning around and looking to trade camp before they even really fully admit this publicly. I mean, I think it's a great reminder that managing a team, running a team is such a holistic job. Right. Like, you could be great at the trade part of it. You could be great at the negotiation part of it.

And you might slip up, whether it's injury management, whether it's personnel management, whether it's retention, as we've seen with teams like the Warriors who have had this brain drain over multiple years. Like, it's so hard to do every part. part of the job, right? And so it really does seem like a matter of time before, even someone like A.N. who may be good at other parts of it slips up in some other area. Also, if you're a player, like, you got to have your own doctors. You just got to. These teams aren't in your own best interest. Like, look Katie and the Warriors a couple of years ago. Like, at this point, when you come back, you're taking cream of your own hands. You know that every time. And you know, kind of team's looking out for you. Yeah. Well, we'll talk about the Celtics, just

what they have ahead of them really quickly here. What do we think about them without Heward and without Kemba for a short period here. Do we have any faith in that they could turn this around pretty quickly or sharks you're writing about this on the cipher tomorrow? Do you think they're fine if they just elevate Marcus Smart and work in some of these big men that they have? I think so. I'm excited for the Celtics.

I think for a long time, Tatum, Brown, and Smart have always kind of had to fit in. There's always been older guys ahead of them who had to make them share the ball. And I think if you're Boston, you say, I have a 22-year-old, a 23-year-old, and a 26-year-old they're all ready to get better. They're all great defensive players. They're all good two-way players. That should be the top three of a good team. To me, there's no real concern.

I think you've got your pieces in place already. Just keep it going forward. I think there's another take that comes from that, which is, and maybe this is just accepted given Kemba's injuries, but would they have been better off as a team if they had just kept Terry Rozier and potentially been able to keep Gordon Hayward as a result of it? Because then you don't have quite so much tension

in terms of sharing the ball responsibility. Everyone can do a little bit more. I mean, you can start Marcus Smart. He's a pretty dynamic playmaker at this point in his career. You could start Rozier if he had wanted to. He's turned into like a 45% catch-and-shoot three-point shooter. And you basically have Gordon Hayward to run point forward to do a little bit more of the playmaking if you're able to convince him to stick around.

Like, I'm not sure I don't like that version of this team a little bit better than even one with a healthy Kemba. Here's the one problem with that is Rozier sucks. So, like, he's like, that's tough to keep a guy who sucks around. It's not ideal. And the money it would take. I do love they're having what? They're paying rosier and hayward $50 million in Charlotte combined. That's pretty amazing.

That's incredible. That's incredible. I like this Celtics team. Like, I have some concerns about their depth. And obviously the Kemba injury hurts. But the pickup of Tristan Thompson, I thought, was just like one of the best pickups of the offseason. Like, it kind of seemed like it went under the radar.

Like, he's exactly what they need. He can defend all over the floor, can rebound. Like, he's not a great rim protector, but he's good at being in position. Like, that's 100% what they were lacking last year. And I think as long as Tatum and Brown are healthy, like, that duo was just like, I'm all in on that duo. Like, they're so good. They can carry this team as well as any duo.

Yeah, exactly. They're getting better every year. But is it too many big men, though? Because you have ties there. You have Robert Williams. Who? How dare you? This is a time Lord podcast for us.

I'm sorry. That dude sucks as well. Like he might be good someday. Get him off this pot. But he's bad right now. No. Get him out of here. He's bad right now.

He's so good that he barely played in the playoffs because they were like, we're worried when I went by too many points. Brad's got to play Daniel Tice 35 minutes. It's just how it is. There's no time for anybody else to get in the rest. We all know that Grant Williams is also the five in the playoffs anyway. Is he a shooting guard? I think he's a bowling ball.

No, I do think it's kind of apropos and poetic one might say that like after Danny Aange has lusted after every superstar on the market, it's really going to come down to the players that he drafted. The courier is Tatum. It's brown. It's smart. And then the depth that they're going to get is going to come down to the guys

they drafted recently. Romeo Langford is also her. But like Aaron Naismith might like play significant minutes for this team. He can, he's, he's, he's, that dude can shoot. Like, that guy is like so unbelievable. He's gonna, he'll play right away and he'll be good. Yeah, Justin, when you're a small market team, I guess what you have to do is a

built to the draft. There you go. Sasha, what do we have here? Again, one has stuck out to me and that is number one goes to Zach here for his actually very accurate take that Danny Aange is trash. Trash. Trash. Wow.

So doesn't care about players. And then a special commendation to Justin for saying that the Celtics can't get any free agents. I feel like we may have been a little tilted in terms of the judging on this particular category, but that's neither here or there. I don't know what you're talking about. Go Lakers. All right. let's shift to another team in the Eastern Conference. So Kevin Durant was in front of a microphone,

which is always always a pleasure. I think this is the first time he was in front of just the media in general since January. And so someone asked him, of course, about the James Hardin. Rumors. Don't forget the ETC podcast, Justin. Come on now. Right.

No, he's definitely been making the rounds on the podcast scene, but he hasn't actually talked to traditional reporters, which is like becoming a thing with this team where Kyrie and Katie, whenever they talk, it's like questioning whether the media is working for Trump or something like that. It's just very outside of just reality. These are just workers seizing the means of production.

100%. Right. Viva revolution, Justin. The specific news item to discuss here is he denied having conversations with Hardin about coming to the net specifically. He says, I don't know where you're making these stories up.

I have an idea where they're making these stories up. It seemed pretty clearly that James Hardin asked for a trade out of Houston. And I don't know if anyone would have just made up that he would want to go to Brooklyn and that he had conversations with KD when they were literally in a gym together in Los Angeles. But yeah, that's a curious one here. Does anyone want to go here? Charks, you seem chomping at the bit. Not really.

And what's he going to say? Like, I'm tampering with all. other players. Would it shock you if he said that? It wouldn't actually. That's fair. I feel like, I feel like Cheech Marin and Tin Cup, right? Where it's another breakdown from Kevin Costner and he's just like, at one point,

he's like, I'm tired. Like, I'm just, we're going through the same thing again. We did this, what was it, two years ago, almost two years ago when, Ethan Strauss reported that like, hey, this silence where Katie hasn't talked to the media for nine days is weird. There's a lot of talk that he's going to team up with Kyrie in New York. And that's what everyone's talking about. And he comes out and says, like, you know, you just go out there and put your whole opinion into this thing. And you're not, you know, denies everything that Ethan says.

And then like he didn't go to New York. He went to Brooklyn, right? Which is, by the way, in New York. Like, this is with Kyrie Irvin. Like, he did this whole thing. So I didn't believe this hardened to the Nets thing until KD denied it. And now I believe it. Because that seems to be like I don't want I don't this is tricky.

I don't want to compare KD to Trump. But someone like I was talking to a friend the other day and they're like, I don't know how you like I don't know what to believe in the news anymore. And I said, oh, I've got a pretty good system. Just whatever, whatever 45 says that you just the opposite is true. So now I feel like with KD, when he talks about, when he addresses something with the media, just go the other way. There's probably a lot of truth in that. It's always opposite day in the Brooklyn.

It's just opposite day. Yeah. Wait, so by that logic of KD had said, yeah, me and James talk all the time. You'd be like, no, that's not happening then. I'd be like, oh, James Harden to Orlando. That's what I would have thought. Here's my take. You know how the heat, Big Three, was just loathed?

Like, it was just such a bad experience. for LeBron. But that was actually interesting. Like, because we care so much about LeBron and his trials and tribulations that, like, everyone had interest in him, whether it was like a positive reaction or negative. I don't think anybody is going to care about the Nets this year. I just, I just think that in one, Brooklyn doesn't have a built-in fan base. So you don't have that natural just like gravitation to what they're,

what's going on there. And two, I just think that like Katie and Kyrie are just, so, they're just so, like, everyone is just so put off of what they're doing that I just don't know if there's like a natural interest in anything they're saying or doing. If anything, they're just like actively getting people to not have interest in them. I think they might be the least likable super team that's ever been formed. That is my take. Counter take, I think you're really underestimating, like, the Instagram

set of NBA fans. Like, Kyrie is wildly popular. Kevin Durant is a All caps problem. And we're going to be reminded of that every two weeks until the end of time. And there's just enough soap here, I think, to keep everyone really interested and hanging on everyone's word as to, oh, who did, you know, which teammate did Kyrie Irving leave out when he was listing all his most important teammates this week this time? I think this is going to be a really interesting team. And moreover, I think the casual fans who are below our level of, like, constant NBA chatter are going to fucking love this team. I think they're going to be all over it. I got to say, I don't want to derail this conversation, but I'm going to a little bit.

As Rob said, there's going to be enough soap to dot, dot, dot. I was trying to think, like, is there a saying that's coming? Is there like some kind of like idiom here? And so I immediately thought there's a saying like, there must be a saying like there's enough soap to for everyone to be lathered up here. That's what I thought you were going to say because like it kind of made sense in my head. And now I think that that should be a saying. I think Rob. That's a saying?

There is a saying. No, it's not. But I think it should be. there's enough soap to be lathered up here. I think you just want to take. And we're all going to be lathered up by the end of this season with all this Nets action.

I think the Nets are interesting, but that also might be me wanting them to be interesting. Like I do think that there is a, I think they're interesting if they're good right away, right? Like if they're sort of just like kind of middling,

that won't be anything. But if they're a disaster, if they're good right away, then I think you'll either get people who want to hate Kevin Durant or if they're good right away, you'll get kind of the bandwagon maybe starting to go like,

ooh, maybe that we go to Brooklyn this year. Like, I do think that that could save them and make them interesting. Or, you know, Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant just, like, hate the rest of their teammates at some point. Well, not DeAndre Jordan. He gets to, like, he's like the Patrick Patterson of the Clippers.

Like, he gets to be in there because he's friends with one of the superstars. I think that's what it is. I think kind of what Rob was saying about level of, like, interest. If you just watch these guys play basketball, man, they're just so much fun to watch. Just don't listen to them on their podcasts or listen to them talk.

Just watch them play basketball. The other stuff, who cares, man? Katie is amazing. Kyrie is so much fun to watch. They're going to be good and it'll be fun to watch in the playoffs. Beyond that, and whatever. See, I think they, if they are bad, that is the only time that people will care.

Because if we're taking the heat comp, a step further, like the heat struggled right out of the gates. LeBron bumps into Eric Spolstra. Then we had way more reason to be interested in. If they just completely obliterated everybody on their schedule, like 14 and no, whatever. Like, then you just don't care. Winning is not, like, did we care about the bucks last year? No.

Like, Yonis was incredible. Who is this Wii, Justin? Yeah. You're taking a big mandate here on the we. I'm speaking for the people. I'm a man of the people. No, but like, fans of the worlds. Do you think, uh, do you think there's an onus on Joe Harris to get everyone really nice Christmas

gifts now? like just throughout the team like he has to win that competition what do you think and where do you think Joe Harris is shopping do you think he's shopping at Spencer's to the end does that still exist one of those balls where you put your hand on it

and just like the lightning attaches to your fingers you know I'm talking about I like that thing yeah I want to get one of this to make those I'm gonna get one Kyrie has 12 of them and he's like no I already have this one all right any other takes about the nets here here's one here's one Do we think they're going to be good this year?

Do we think they're going to be top of the East good? Best team in the East good? Like, no, I think that's the Bucks. I think the Bucks take the regular season more seriously than everyone else. But I think the Bucks will be a top five-ish team, or the Nets will be a top-five-ish team. But the top of the East is also loaded. Like, you could tell me any order one through six

other than the Bucks being below three, and I would believe it. Because there's a lot, the back end of the East is, dog shit, but the top is super compelling. There's a lot there depending on DeAndre Jordan, Jared Allen, and Jeff Green to play

good center minutes all the time, and I guess in the playoffs. Jeff Green's on the net? We've already seen Jeff Green's in the playoffs. Jeff Green is a Brooklyn net. Yep. And as we're saying, Royal Ivy on that team, and they'll just have the

Thunder. I think he's on the coaching staff. I think he's too, actually. great and a nod Christic um sharks who do you like in these let's go around the horn here I'll say Nets if KD's healthy like if Katie can be what he was before

I'm gonna say next you love KD he's a Texas guy always Rob who do you like regular season or playoffs we're saying let's say regular season who's gonna finish the top still the bucks still the bucks regular season

eating the playoffs I can't stop myself from liking the Sixers. I get it. I get it. No, no, no, no, no. We are flawed, imperfect people over here drinking the Kool-Aid. Oh, man.

Oh, we need the shooter, man. All right. Sasha, what do we think here? How are our takes? I'm giving a special Flame Award to Zach Harper for comparing KD to Trump. And then... I'm giving it loosely. Zach's got a lead, I think, right?

He's pulling away from us already. That's a Flame Award. That's like a special commendation. And then I'm going to give the number one spot to Rob for saying that this team will be very interesting. Let's go. Because I do think, and it was also like that the like non, if you like don't work on NBA, that the Nets will be like a team that you love because they are crazy. They'll say anything.

Katie's fantastic. Kyrie's entertaining. So yeah, I actually love Katie. and I was a baby Nets fan when it was like the Baby Nets. And I loved that team. So I'm just, I have high expectations because they got rid of all my favorite people. Or they're never going to get touches. So, you know, we got to see some stuff here.

Yeah, Rob. Thank you. That's Rob. Rob. Rob's in the lead. One more before we take a break here. Let's move on to New Orleans, who had the annual. Stephen Adams says something funny that isn't actually all that funny

and everyone acted as if it was funny but outside of that, David Griffin dropped a little bit of a nugget here I guess Zion Williamson is a three now. This is the specific quote from Griff he says when we drafted Zion the thing that excited us

the most was the positionless nature of his game. We really very much envision a time where Zion is going to be playing the three and defending the three and he's going to be on the handle Griff, sort of talking like a blogger there, which I appreciate. But I don't know what to do with this. Like, here's my take here.

Reality is a concept. We're at this point. Go further. Well, there was this big discussion like five years ago that I'm sure Rob was a part of about positional was basketball. Excuse me. But also, yes. Yes, because I know specifically.

you were where it was like, wow, it was really interesting because we thought about it, like different from the traditional norms and like, oh, positions, like, you don't have to be a five to guard a five, whatever. But like, here it's just like, he's a big guy who will probably guard big guys unless he drops like a significant amount of weight. I don't really see him out on the wing. Like, he's just a Zion. And I don't think even applying a number to him. Even a three is all that instructive. I have a take. Playing him at the three is a way to boost their offense. Playing at the three defensively is a way to boost their offense.

Because if he's on the perimeter, it doesn't matter really if he's guarding people, he gets to leak out. And they want him to essentially be Randy Moss on offense, right? Like get out and transition. Go run a go route. We'll throw the ball to you. You catch it.

You dunk it. Like get to the free throw line. I think it's more of a strategy for their offense and is their defense. And also, like, at the risk of Sasha's saying that I compared Zion Williamson to Derek Williams. It's not what I'm doing. But I do remember a time where Derek Williams lost a bunch of weight.

And they're like, he's a three now. It's like, yeah, not really, though. Like, he's, he's not really a three. Like, he's going to be that four that you already have that position for with Kevin Love and Minnesota. The good news here is that, like, they don't have an all-star playing ahead of Zion.

Like, he's essentially a four. He's going to be a four. And I think, I think position actually matters with New Orleans because I don't think they have that free-flowing concept yet until all their young guys are developed. Well, splinter take on the defense front, is it actually easier to hide Zion defensively right now at the three versus the four? Like how many threes, you know, Zion is not where you need to be defensively to be a really good player in the NBA. He was, I mean, just looked lost,

looked like he didn't quite know how to rotate to be in the right spots. Like, that's the other thing. He's a rookie, right? Like, yeah. And how many threes are really going to expose his him in that way. Versus if you're a four, you're guarding a lot of pick and roll action. You have to be there and help or else your team's

going to fall apart. Are we really worried about Zion at the three for the two nights a year he plays against LeBron and Kauai, basically? I mean, the whole point of hiding someone

is moving from position to position to hide him on the worst player, right? So three or four, it's like, are you hiding him on defense? I'm more than Justin's reality is a concept take, though.

That's why I was kind of curious to do or get any more into that, please. I don't have anything else than that. My understanding of that is surface level, like most things. Well, this did speak to Griff's comments. You know, like, I'll do respect

to Griff, but this is like peak general manager bullshit. On the big picture in the watch, they talk all the time about director bullshit, like when Gareth Edwards said that Rogue One was Apocalypse Now, and like, you know, we're going to draw from all these incredible influences to make our current pop movies.

Like, this is the NBA version of that is, oh, you know, I think Andre Drummond was talking yesterday about how him and Javelle McGee and Larry Nance, we're all going to be able to play in the same lineups together. It's like, this is just what we do at this time of year. Reality is a complete concept or a construct that doesn't really matter. Let's just say stuff, put it out there, and see what bounces back.

Drummond Javille should have been a new segment for us. That's a thing that's happening now. What are we doing, Justin? We buried the lead. You know what the funny thing is? Is at first I was like, I don't remember Javail going to the Pistons, and I had to remind myself that Drummond's on the cab. So that's, oh, I'm very locked in for this season.

To piggyback on reality as a concept, I kind of feel like reality is just Chucky Cheese, right? Like, it's not like you're there, there's stuff to do, but none of it actually is real and none of it actually helps you accomplish anything in life. Like we're just kind of gathering prize tickets and hoping we have enough for whatever the coolest prizes. Yeah. Are the four of us the animatronic Chucky Cheese band performing on stage? That sounds like hell, so probably. Yeah. Specifically, which one is Zion Williamson?

The big one. Hey, can I take this another level, a more basketball-related level? I think it's way more easy to market yourself as a small forward than it is as a big man. And I wonder how much of it is just perception and specifically perception, Griff's selling it to Zion, that you're not just the big guy. You're actually this multi-positional just monster who's super athletic. and whatnot because all, I mean, we know very little about like what sells merchandise and shoes and all this other stuff. Like Kyrie Irving, for instance, is to Sharks' earlier point, like, super popular. But the chalk outline of Michael Jordan is usually where shoe companies tend to go.

It's why Paul George, for some reason, has his own signature shoe. It's because dynamic wings who play an exciting style of basketball tend to be what people go after. And I guess going off that, like Zion last year, most of the same. posted up. But at Duke, he was more offball cuts, pick and roll rolls, kind of dribbling a little more. So that kind of makes sense, too, is kind of moving his offensive roll around a bit, letting him kind of create. Can you think of a more cathartic video than Zion Williamson jumping into a ball pit in slow motion? I feel like I would watch that a lot. I'm into it. I'd pay a subscription fee for it. 100%. What do we just quickly here, what do we think about the Pelicans next year?

Do we have any faith that some of the vets that they brought in really make them in that eighth seed race? Are they taking a step back? Because they're probably going to play some more young guys here. It seems like they have like six 19-year-old point cards at this point. Well, just remember, it's a 10th seed race now for the playing game. That's true. I honestly keep forgetting that. So thank you.

I'm open to the idea that Bledso Adams is as good as holiday favors. Now, I'm not very high on favors, and I'm also not high on Bledsoe. I've never been a Bledsoe guy. I think Drew Holiday is significantly better, but I'm open to the idea that at least from like a regular season standpoint, like you get as much out of Stephen Adams and Eric Bloodsoe's a combination as you do Derek Favors and Drew Holiday. So they might be okay. They might be like really in the mix all year.

I think the trouble is they could have a really good season and still not make that final eight. you know, the West is just that good. And especially now that teams like the Suns are getting that much better, that's where I worry for them, especially with, you know, I will say they are a little deeper than some of these other teams in the West. They do have a little bit more cushion. But you need Zion out there for a lot of games.

You're going to make a real run at this thing. I think they have a shot, but they're one of several teams that have a shot, unfortunately, for them. My concern is just the way they're building this team. It's very much zigging and everyone else is zagging. You would think, oh, you have Zion, let's bring in shooters. They bring in Stephen, Adams, Eric Bledsoe, where is this space going to come from? They drafted Jackson Hayes.

It's just an odd way to build the team around Zion. That's my concern. Yeah, a lot of vets on this team too. And I wonder if they have all these young guys that they have to play, if Stan Van Gundy, who Stephen Adams is already admitting, he's like an old school type of guy, is going to really be, like, feeding minutes to Nikiel Alexander Walker when they're just like, they need a win in February. He's never going to play. He's never going to play for Stan Van Gundy. here's a question, sharks, just based on recent draft

scouting, Kira Lewis or Alexander Walker? Oh, Kira Lewis is legit. He's a really good play. I'm, I'm, I'm billion on him.

I think quietly also, this is a perfect year for Lonzo. Like, there's a lot of competition for playing time. And, it's a contract year, too.

So he's up for a rookie contract extension before, I think it's right before the season starts on December 21st. So, this is,

There's a lot always going on with New Orleans. I've always said that the palace intrigue is just as good as any other franchise, if anyone actually cared about this franchise. I've been thinking a lot about Chuck Echee cheese over the last couple of minutes. Do you think when Lamello, LeAngelo, and Lanzo are all hanging out together at their house, they call it the ball pit? Probably. When Zion comes over, he's crashing the ball pit.

Here we go. You brought it back around. That was good. All right, Sasha. I've also been thinking about Chucky Cheese a lot over the past few minutes, and that's why I have to give this round to Zach for the take that life is a Chucky Cheese with special, you know, recommendation to Justin for getting us there. Thank you.

With reality is a concept. Also, I think it's actually construct, so I'm glad that we want this entire segment with me getting that wrong. We can go back in. ADR it over it. Don't worry about it. Yeah. Construct. Just add that in there. All right. We're going to take a quick break and we come back. We're going to talk about a couple more of these news items. All right. A couple more here. This one from Atlanta, which has been doing a lot. I don't know if it's good, but they're definitely doing a lot.

John Collins, kind of the odd man out here after all of their free agency moves, says that his agents are working every day to figure out an extension with the hawks. there's some light rumors going around that this seems more probable than we'd expect considering that they now have seven people playing the same position just got Daniel Galanari just drafted Okongwu

here's my take I'll go first here Collins won't be here in Atlanta by the end by the start of next season and that this contract is more just to retain an asset than anything else I mean that part for sure You can't just give up a guy like that for nothing. Definitely.

Yeah, I mean, I would trust sharks on this one, but I don't, I understand he's productive. I don't think he's bad, but I don't really get the John Collins thing, especially within what they're building or what they need for this team. Maybe it works better on the timeline they have now, but like I think John Collins,

unless he becomes like a good defender, it's a bad idea to pair him with Tray Young. The defense is definitely what makes it tough. but I'm scanning, looking at this team, you draw it out into the future, what'll eventually happen with this kind of group of players

three and four years down the line. I feel like if they do end up trading John Collins, it could be the moment we trace back to when everything kind of fell apart for the Trey Young Hawks. Because they've done a marvelous job of kind of getting the pieces they could when they had cap space,

especially next season is going to be a cat bonanza for so many teams. I don't think the Hawks were going to get in on a lot of the best players there, so use it while you got it, which is great, got a lot of talent. Most of it is veteran talent and most of it is kind of pretty good veterans. If they trade Collins and they don't get a really good young player in return, I'm just not sure trading the incredibly productive, hyper-athletic,

23-year-old big man who you can pair with Tray Young is going to get you where you need to go. You might end up with Tray Young and a bunch of pretty good role players and some pretty good veterans, and that's the kind of situation that leads to really good players leaving in free agency sometimes. I think the part that really amused me is so Schlank was saying, okay, we signed Danilo to be a backup to John Collins. Then you go back to the Nilo said a couple months ago where he's like, you know, I'm a veteran.

I made a lot of money. I want to win now. And he decided to take $20 million a year to back up somebody in Atlanta. That's the ultimate finesse move right there. Like, I'm here for championships. But actually, I'll go back of John Collins for a bunch of cash. He's like he could have gone to the heat at the deadline, but he wouldn't sign an extension.

or he wouldn't sign an extension that didn't include 21-22 as a season. He wasn't going to do that Iguidala extension. And so, like, they didn't trade for him. But like, if he really gave a damn bad winning, no, he wanted to get paid, which I get like cash out. I'm fine with that. But he's such a liar. He's like, yeah, I want to win.

It's all it's all about. No, you wanted the $60 million. Just say that. I think this sneaky storyline with the Hawks here is that this is probably going to be the team that decides like Trey Young's future and the organization's future in the next like five to 60 years. They made pretty much all of their big moves that they can make and like maybe somehow they could package enough players together and assets and whatever else they have in order to trade for another star. But I just don't see how they ever get anyone who's really

going to dramatically raise their ceiling otherwise. And so we can say they're young. Trey Young is in his third year. Kim Reddish has come along all that. But like this is probably going to be their team. I mean, that comes down to what you think of Cam Reddish and DeAndre Hunter, I think. And if you think those guys are going to pan out in a way that either makes them super valuable to the Hawks or super valuable in a trade.

I'm not quite there yet, but by all means, if you are. Did you see that Cam Reddish is, like, growing still? I believe this is a story on the athletic. It is training camp, Justin. Everyone is growing. Everyone is faster. Everyone's in the best shape of their life.

He's like getting taller? Yeah. He's significantly taller. Like he's closer to 6.9 than he was like 6.5, 6, 6 coming into the league. Is it that exaggerated? He wasn't 6.5 coming into the league. That doesn't seem healthy either, by the way. That seems like he's becoming an X-Men.

Like, that's... I think, I mean, I don't think the Hawks are necessarily going to be good this year. They may be good enough to sneak in the back end to the east because it sucks. But, like, I get... the issues with Trey Young, but I just, like, he's so damn good. Like, I don't care that he's a horrible defender. Like, that's for the rest of the team to figure out. You have an offensive talent like that.

You can live with him being so bad defensively, as long as you get everyone else up to speed with that stuff. Like, that's where a congwu in the future becomes so important. That's why you need John Collins to become a defender. That's why Hunter becomes so important. Like, if you can put three really good defenders out there and a shooter, who hopefully can just play team defense with Trey Young, I think that he can carry your team deep into the playoffs in the future.

Like, I think we focus a little too much on the negatives with him because they're so glaring because the rest of that team was so young. Like they had like five or six guys who were 21 or under, right? Like they, like if you put some veteran depth around him, I just don't think his issue, like, yeah, maybe he doesn't win you a championship someday, but is that the only way we're going to judge Trey Young? I get there's the Luca connection,

but he's so damn good. I don't really care about that other stuff. I just want him to be who he is offensively. I love that they have another initiator on offense, so he doesn't have to do all of that and that he can play a little bit more off the ball. And then everything else, like, that's for those guys to decide. And I think that's why the thing to watch this year is Reddish and Hunter.

Like how many minutes do they get with, you got Chris Dunn in here, you got Rondo, Bogdan, Danilo. that's the part to watch with the Hawks is can they play can they play their two young wings big minutes and still get their veterans happy and win games? That's the day what they have to balance all season. What do we think about the Bogdan signing there?

So do you think he's better off in Atlanta where perhaps he has more opportunities or would he have been better with the bucks? I mean, you'd be better with the bucks because that's just a better organization unless Yannis leaves and then he probably don't want like Bogdan and Chris Middleton as you'd won two combo.

But I think it's just like he got out of sack. That's a win. As someone who grew up in Sacramento, getting out of Sacramento is so important. Like, it's a fine place to grow up and to have a family and everything. I know you're a Sacramento guy? Big Lady Bird fan? Big Lady Bird. All the B-roll for that movie is in the neighborhood I grew up in.

Very cool. Seeing, like, I watched it in the theater with my parents, and my mom, like, gassed when you saw the El Dorado Savings Bank Credit Union in the B-roll because that was, like, a block from our house. Very big moment watching Lady Bird. I mean, I feel like you and Greta are of the same generation. Is the Timothy Shalamee character based originally on you? I have signed documents to where I cannot answer that question directly, but I would just say, you know, trust your instincts. All right, Sasha, what do we think here?

A lot to parse through. A lot to parse through here. Yeah, I liked it. The only thing that really stuck with me long term was, the like tag team Charks and Zach Danilo Gallinari is a liar take.

Yes, he's a liar. That was a little brainworm. It's stuck in my brain a little bit. So I think I'm going to go with that, but I also liked the Trey Young doesn't have to worry about like let's just not let's not burden him with defense.

As a chucker who doesn't play defense, I identify with Trey Young. Well, let's move on to another point guard who chucks and doesn't necessarily play defense. And he's also from formerly of the Atlanta Hawks, Dennis Schrooter, says he does not want to come off the bench anymore. He did that in OKC and he is ready to start.

I'll go through some specific quotes here from his media session yesterday. I did this off the bench stuff already in two years with OKC. I think I try to move forward and I think with Anthony Davis and LeBron, I can be helpful as a starter in the PG position. this is the one that I think is the most concerning. LeBron don't have to have to do... The German is messing this up. LeBron doesn't have to do so much in his mind.

I can bring it up, call a set player or whatever, and put him in position to score. I think him to play off the ball, I mean, is, I think, great. I think that's the reason why they brought me in. So LeBron... I think that's the reason they brought me in. I would say LeBron hasn't had a great... track record with players who want to

freelance and not do things his way. And this was my concern about the fit originally. I think basketball sentence which is great. They have more depth. They have another creator, etc. But it's weird to me that he's making such a firm stance and in particular

making such a firm stance that he didn't make an OKC. You think this would have come up in the small market where they weren't winning as much versus the team that he has a chance to win a title on. See, I would say no because in OKC, he's backing up Russell Westbrook, then he's backing up Chris Paul, right? Okay, you're backing

Future Hall of Famer. In LA, he's backing up what Alex Caruso and KCP? So, future Hall of Famer. Yes, I'm pandering to Sasha there. Okay, okay. Well, I guess technically he would be backing up LeBron because if they wanted to keep the starting line up from last year, Trudeau were coming up the bench. LeBron would play

in air quotes, point guard. Why wouldn't he start? This is what I'm confused about with this whole conversation. Like, if I'm Dennis Shrewder walking into the situation, he should start. And more than that, isn't he the best Lakers point guard, LeBron in his own category, but point guard, point guard, isn't he the best Lakers point card of like the last 20 years, essentially? Like, who has been better? 20 years. Wow. Steve Nash. No, no. I thought, let's go back real quick. We got Rondo and Avery Bradley.

We got Lanzo. We got Jordan Clarkson. We got DeAngelo Russell. We got Jeremy Lynn. We got Steve Blake and Jordan Farmer, Smush Parker, Chris Duhon, Chuckie Atkins, 35. year old Gary Payton. Is this from the list or just off top of your head? This is off a list. Did we skip over Kendall Marshall? Sorry, Kendall Marshall in here. And 37-year-old Ron Harper.

The last point guard, I think you could argue, is better than Dennis Schroeder is right now. Supposing he's as good as he was last year in OKC is probably like 1998 Nick Van Exel. This just hasn't been a good point guard team. So I'm with Dennis Schroeder on this. Like, I really don't see. He fits pretty well next to LeBron, pretty well next to AD. I want him out there. You want to stagger his minutes so he gets time.

with Montrose-Harrell, too, but I really don't see a problem with starting him. I think the other thing, too, so he's in the last year of his contract making $15 million a year. That's starting point-card money. If he's a six-man, that's Lou Williams. That's $8 million a year. That's like half his salary. So, no, I'm not doing that anymore. Like, I'm up for new contract.

Yeah, I mean, I think this is where, like, Schroeder is like, hey, positionless basketball is bullshit. Right? Like, we need set positions, and LeBron's really more of a three-four, if you ask me. Like I think, you know, I got to be out there as a point guard. I think that Dennis Schroer starts pushing back against Rob Mahoney, who was, I think, a small part of the positionless basketball conversation. There's just a small part. I'm becoming a bigger and bigger part as this podcast goes on.

Yeah, I imagine they solve this just by staggering the minutes. Like, they start him and but he gets most of his minutes without LeBron on the floor. Like you start them, you finish with them together, but most of the time, they're separated. I was going to say, that's what I'm curious about. Does he finish the game? That's probably the bigger question, defensively. Do you keep them out there in the conference finals or the NBA finals? I don't know about that.

He didn't say anything about wanting to finish games. He just said he didn't want to come off the bench. So I'm, you know, I actually respect that more. Like, you know, I got to be in that starting lineup intro. I got to see, you know, the sheets come down over the scoreboard. I want to see myself, you know, dribbling on those sheets. And then, you know, end of the game, you do what you want. Throw anybody in there.

I just want to, I just want to be a part of the spectacle. That's true. I would definitely want to be on those sheets. I would actually want to just do the moves in order to like pantomime whatever you have to do with the music in the background. Yeah, that's what I want. I'll say this. It's arguably the best intro right up there with the Chicago Bulls like music and all that. Like that Lakers intro is arguably the best we've ever seen.

Just because of the cloth? Yeah. Who else is doing that? That bullshit like 3D thing on the court that some teams do. No, that's stupid. Like, oh, my God, the court dropped. Where did it go? it's still there. I'm not like five years old.

Like that's not going to work on me. I'm actually partial to the clippers who have just like kind of cheesy pyrotechnics and laser lights. Like I'm all about that. The clippers drive me crazy with their game ops because all they did was I feel like Steve Bomber bought the team. And they said, and he went into a meeting like, hey, I want to make the game experience better. What like, what are some things that, you know, give me a list of things that teams do during timeouts, during intros, all this stuff.

And they're like, all right, here's the list. He said, all right, do all those at all times. Like, I want all those happening at once at all times, and that's what they do with their game ops. It's so, it's like, it's like circus circus in Las Vegas. Like, that's what it feels like. If I can ask a philosophical question, I mean, what is your favorite pregame game ops aesthetic? Do you like the dudes dribbling in front of a smoky background? Do you like the zoom through the streets of the city?

Do you like guys flipping over big tires and doing the chains? That's the one. Yeah, the Miami heat one. The Miami he won. I just want to see you, Donis Haslam and like Josh McRoberts working out in a dungeon. Like, that's what I want to see. Oh, my goodness. I'm partial to stairs more than like basketball movements, just like hands crossed.

Oh, yeah. Just looking or just like palming the ball and just staring into the camera for way too long. I thought you meant like stairs, like steps stairs. Sure. We can, we can look like, walks up stairs. So, Justin, on your album cover, what did you? you do for your bands. That's probably the better question.

I like that this has no context whatsoever to the listener. This is great. Well, please get, please share with the class. What Charks is referring to is that in high school I was in a ska band and I guess you guys just found this out like right before it was recorded. Literally right before. It's great.

That's great stuff. Was it was the name of the band Brian Skala Lebrini? Yes, exactly. All right. Sasha, I think that's your cue. Again, a lot to parse through. I think my, I mean, I don't know whether to demerit or reward, Zex, just like blatant pandering. Reward.

I mean, just like getting on here and being like, the clippers suck and like. No, I've said that for a while. Their game ops is bullshit. It's so bad. I tend to agree. But I think I'm going to go with Rob. of like, why not? Like, why, why not?

Like, I think people just don't, I think people always will raise their eyebrows when players like go out there and be like, yeah, I should start. Yeah, for sure. Without, like, when they just say that and it seems like they're talking independently from the team, especially on like a LeBron team where like that might not work out will for you as a player. But I kind of agree with him. I do think it's funny that he just went to like a German outlet and did this and

like hasn't said this to any like American. American outlets at all. I like that move for foreign players. Just like, I'm only giving it to my country's outlets. And like, you guys can just aggregate it in a horrible Google translation.

Yeah, hit the Google Translate hose. Like, it is funny. My favorite take is hit the Google Translate hose. Like, that's my favorite take. That's good.

Janice has done some of this too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess, I guess I'm going to give it to Rob for real. But Zach, I appreciate the Clippers hate.

Alex Caruso. And Alex Caruso. Alex Cruz said a future Hallfamer didn't get a pandering reward? That's important. Zach is still in the game. If he

actually, wait, I'll count it up later. I'll count it up later. Remember, I got a flame emoji or something earlier too. Yeah.

A chart has a special commendation. Yeah. And so does Justin. All right. We'll tally it up at the end. Okay. We can make this last one worth seven.

the Christmas Day schedule is out. I appreciated Mark Stein's tweet about this, that ESPN leaked. It's Christmas Day schedule, which was basically his way of saying that Wode reported it with a graphic already in hand. The matchups are as following the Pelicans versus the heat, the Warriors versus the bucks, the Nets versus the Celtics, Mavs versus the Lakers, Clippers versus the Nuggets. Does anyone have a take here? Because I have something. It's not all that spicy, but to me, putting the Mavs,

against the Lakers. This is just the league's attempt to make Luca a thing and this is where it starts. Making him a thing. Like they're really leaning into him being the next guy. He's the next guy.

He's great. Well, I think there was I think there was some discussion about whether it'd be Janus or Luca, but I think in last year's postseason it's clear that he plays a much more dynamic way and that's probably going to sell it for him.

He flipped a box. bottle. He flipped a bottle in a timeout before he hit a game winner. Like he was just like, he's like, yeah, Rick, you, whatever the fuck you're talking about, no one cares. Like, I'm just, I'm flipping a water bottle. He's a thing. He's great. Like, he's, he's it. They should put him against LeBron every night. That should be the 72 games. It's just Mavs Lakers every night if you want ratings. Especially if he goes and tries to get LeBron to sign a jersey after every game, like he did his first against him. Do you guys remember that? You just go through all the horrible like Mavs alternate uniforms in history

that he's trying to get LeBron to sign, like the one that didn't Diddy design like design? Yes, the signy suits. That was a legendary uniform. That's the best one, yeah. The thing I was surprised by is no Warriors Nets. That was the obvious move.

Get Katie and stuff against each other. They're getting a jump on Janus playing against his future team. That's the thing here. I think the Christmas Day games are kind of a vehicle for tampering one way or the other. It's either.

Like sunlight is, the best disinfectant and the best way to keep Steph and Janus from making eyes at each other is to put a million cameras on them and hyper-analyze everything they do. So from the league perspective, that could be good. Or there's some tiny bit of interaction between two players

that becomes a huge, like a huge storyline. That way of LeBron thing, you remember that a couple years ago when they were like talking and the mic got it? Yeah. So I think the more you put these kind of pairings of like, I mean, let's get Janus against the heat, let's get Janus against the Raptors. Like whoever is the free agent

DeJour, like, like let's get as many national games as possible against their potential destinations because it's really good for the NBA either way. So that's why they're doing Zion versus the heat. Exactly. Eight years for now, he can go to at Riley's camp and get into shape.

Also, I'm excited for the D&P sore knee from Kyrie Irving as he does not play against his Boston Celtics. I'm sure that he's going to set out that game. You kidding me? There's no way he's playing that game. Well, there's no fans, whatever, right? I think it's a whole principle of like he doesn't want to play against Boston.

He doesn't want to give them the sad, this faction of like here's your, like one of your first looks at this pairing, if you go into Boston on Christmas Day and lose that, then it's like this PR disaster. Like, oh, the net's sucking. Katie and Kyrie aren't going to work and everything. I think he's sitting out that game. You think he's just like a Celtics conscientious objector at this point? Like this will refuse Boston games on principle. The Celtics are as flat as the earth. Like that's what I think he believes. He really got jipped here. Raining Eastern Conference champions, they get the first game against the upstart Pelicans.

Like, I guess they're not buying the heat as a thing. I'm in on the heat completely, but like, we got to be honest. Like, it's not a sexy national team. And like, I feel like they're kind of in the Denver zone here, right? Like, yes, we know you're super good. You're very successful. Like, just be

happier on Christmas. I like the Denver zone. That's a useful concept, the Denver zone. You lose your players to Detroit, Denver zone. What do we think is the best matchup on the board? here. I mean, Mavs Lakers was several of the best regular

season games of last season, so it's kind of hard to pick against that. You know, I'll be exciting to see how the Clippers collapse against the Nuggets on Christmas Day. I'm going for that. Do that happen? This pandering is ridiculous. Sorry, Rob, so those are here to win, okay?

Out of control. If it's healthy, if the Warriors are, like, healthy outside of clay, like, I actually think that Warriors Bucks game could be really fun. Interesting to watch Wiseman against a good team. That could be, yeah. Yeah.

Maybe. Is Wiseman going to, how much is Wiseman going to play? Because I thought it was interesting that Kerr basically announced that all the other positions outside of center are set, except for center. And I wouldn't be surprised if, like, Kavanaughn Luni is going to be their starting center for the foreseeable,

and Wiseman comes off the bench. I would say Wiseman will start up and not close, you my guess. Probably like 20 minutes. It's just the answer. But then I shrewder's out. Yeah, I like, I mean, I like the idea of making Wiseman earn it. Like, I know, I get it when you just hand over the keys to a young guy and say, hey, you know, go, go learn by trial and error. But on a team like the Warriors, like, I like the idea of like, yo, if you can't beat out Kavana Looney for minutes, like, you probably shouldn't be playing.

That's what we did with Sasha. We just handed her the keys and let her run. And she's been killing it, much like the Lakers of. killed the rest of the NBA over the last, you know, 60 years. All right, Sasha, what's our final total? I am going to zag on number seven and give it to Charks for, I can't wait to see Wiseman on my good team. Deep cuts.

And so the final tally, I mean, this is a bit jumbled here. So we have one for Rob, for. police state. One for Zach for slandering Danny Aange, but it's not slander because it's true. And then we have one for Rob

just for being nice to the Nets, I guess. My notes are ambiguous on this one. And then additionally a flame award to Zach for the KD you know, I guess not Trump comparison or whatever you want me to say about that.

And then one, two, Zach for Chuckie Life is a Chuckie cheese. Yeah, I stand by that. And special combination for Justin are getting us there for reality as a construct. And then what do we have?

Charks and Zach for Danil Gallinari as a liar. Rob for Why Shouldn't Truder Start? And then Charks for Wiseman against a good team. So I guess that final tally. What is that?

Yeah, I lost track there. One, Rob. It was like I won? I think I won. Rob has three definitive. Like, Rob was like, he won three. And then Zach won two, two, but then also has two, like, tag teams. So maybe it's a tie.

If we count. Sort of sounds like four to me, though, if I've got two or two. It sounds like Zach is in the Denver zone, if we're being honest. I am in the Denver zone. Zach is the MVP of follow-ups. Like, one of you would say something, and it would be, like, almost super spicy, and then Zach would jump in and say,

yeah, sounds like Danila Gallinari's a liar. There you go. I'm really good at co-opting other people's ideas. Take it to Chuckie Cheese. So I think I'm going to call it a tie. Take it to Chuckie Cheese. I'm hearing that in the Take it to Church. Take it to Chucky Cheese.

All right, Zach. before we get out of here, we need your Justin Barry your story for the real diehards. Oh, yeah. So, Justin and I, a long time ago, worked at ESPN together. I ran the Daily Dime Live chat and Justin was an editor for the NBA section. And

you know, you see those like, this is sports center commercials where they're just all these like weird things happening around campus, like all these random people. I went to Bristol for, I don't know, the draft or something. And we were sitting out on a patio somewhere on the campus, eating lunch.

I was thinking it was right outside the cafeteria. And out of nowhere, Yukon alum, Justin Verrier, gets accosted by the Syracuse orange mascot.

I don't know where it came from. I didn't see it coming, but all of a sudden, like his hair's being ruffled and he's like being like pushed or something as he's sitting down trying to eat a sandwich and the Syracuse orange out of nowhere.

Like, did he know that you went to Yukon? Like how was that a... No, we go back. Yeah. Okay. Me and the Orange. Yeah. Yeah.

I think it was the last time that Syracuse had any kind of like real basketball moments too. So that was a very exciting time. Wow. Now he's pandering to me. I love this. I do remember the first time there was a staff meeting that both Zach and I, I think it was the first time. And there was a basketball game before that. And the first thing I ever said to Zach, because we communicated via email sometimes, but we had in person, which is how internet friendships work.

And there was someone I didn't know that. And I was like, who is that guy? And you're like, I don't know. And we've been friends ever since. It was, it was, we bonded over our inability to, uh, to be social in a, in a normal construct, but, uh, but we could like bond over like, ooh, we could go ask that person, you know, introduce ourselves. Or we could just, we could guess.

We could do that. Love finds a way is how we'll put it. Um, okay. Thank you. There's also, that was, I think that was the meeting where, uh, we found out. Tom Thibodeau is Tom Thibito, not Tom Tibido. And then to which then Chris Broussard let us know that it's Chris Broussard and not Chris Broussard. Oh, there you go.

Oh, there you go. Oh, that's all right away. Yeah. So there you go. There was also a meeting where Chris Sheridan went around the room and he said something nice about literally everybody, but he didn't know everybody in the room. And so he skipped a couple people. He skipped you and me. It was like literally, it's like a 20 minute.

Yeah. How you guys? That was intentional for sure. He knew who you were. That's my advice to anybody. Don't ever start singling anybody out in a group session because then you're going to have to say something about every single person. And most of the time, you don't know everybody.

Sad is getting caught up in the air and not knowing where the pass is. Yes, exactly. All right. Thank you, Zach, for joining us today. Thanks, guys. You could catch his work at the athletic. Anywhere else, Sirius XM? Yeah, Sirius XM, MBA Radio.

and Mad Dog Sports Radio Friday nights with Amina al-Hasson and I doing all sports, not just basketball. I talked a lot of Nate Robinson, Jake Paul, last week, and we were wrong. What a sell. And today's episode is our last one with Sasha, our intrepid producer. So Sasha, thank you so much. And we wish you well. She's staying on several other podcasts, so she's not going anywhere.

She's been promoted out of the minor leagues to the maid. Let's be honest. Yeah. In the words of Stephen Adams, she's not dying, mate. So great action work today. Over all, from Justin. Well, thanks, guys.

It's been a ride. All right. That's it for us. So the mismatch has a new feed that everyone should check out. If you go to Spotify, our preferred app, you can follow and subscribe. Click the link in the episode description as well. That will take you there.

But we wish them well on their journeys on another. feed, but we will be back next week at the regular time on the regular feed. Until that, see you