The Ringer NBA Show - Team USA's Thriller Comeback Win Over Serbia

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

Seerat and Michael recap Team USA's comeback victory over Serbia to advance to the gold medal game. They talk about huge games from Steph Curry and Joel Embiid, what the next generation of American basketball looks like, a preview of the gold medal game against France (40:30), and much more. Hosts: Seerat Sohi and Michael Pina Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey there, humanoids. It's the Maskman David Shoemaker. It's a new era in professional wrestling, and that means a new era here at the Ringer Wrestling show. Kaz here, every Monday and Thursday hang out with me and my guys' shoes on the Masked Show. And Ben Cruz here. Come kick it with me, Cal, and Brian on Tuesdays for Ringer Wrestling worldwide, where we hit on the most interesting headlines and even react to some of Maskedmans and even your hottest takes. Don't tap out. Tap in to the Ringer Wrestling show feed now on Spotify. or wherever you get your podcasts. Worldwide? Right after an absolutely thrilling semi-final game between the United States and Serbia. Here with me is Michael Pina to process all of it, process what we all just witnessed.

They total, you know, just going back on every single thing that we were worried about, that I was worried about, that I was kind of, I was apathetic a little bit about this team USA run. struggling to find something to hang on to, struggling to find the stakes, the pressure, the things that, you know, are revelatory about great players. It was all a glorified All-Star game before this, but Serbia pushed the U.S. to its absolute limit, pushed Steve Kerr to play rotations that are actually optimal. Steph Curry is the only reason that TM USA was surviving. The only reason that they won this game scored 14 of Team USA's first 15 points, finished with 36 points.

That 14, by the way, was already the most he had scored in Olympic basketball. We all knew the Steph Curry moment was coming. It came not surprisingly when it mattered most. And another guy that was obviously under a lot of heavy scrutiny and Joelle M. B., and there were questions. Is he going to duck Nicola Yokicch? Quite the opposite. 19 points, four rebounds.

straight points in a critical fourth quarter. Just taking it to Yokic, who played almost the entire fourth quarter with four fouls. All the agendas are out the window. The meme makers don't know what to do. The trolls don't know what to do.

Michael, Michael, do you know what to do? I don't know what to do. I think the big takeaway for me, you hit it, was Steph from the top rope right away. and then just hitting, I don't even know how many threes he hit in the first quarter, but a whole bunch,

and then finishing nine for 14 behind the three-point line, 36 points. We were kind of waiting for this type of Steph Curry performance, and Team USA got it on the biggest stage so far. I do think that when I'm watching the game, and we said this before we started recording with Joelle Embed, who was the second biggest revelation, him acquitting himself on this stage,

playing 27 minutes, 19 points 8 for 11 from the floor. When I was watching the game, it seemed to me, obviously he hit some big shots. He scored that seven straight in the fourth quarter, closed for them, made a couple big defensive plays. When I was watching it, though, there were like patches of the game where I just wanted him not to be on the court because, you know, Bogdanovich would attack him and pick and roll every single time. There were stretches where when LeBron was guarding Yokic

in the fourth quarter and LeBron was doing a terrific job, bodying him in the post, Embed would come over to help and Embed's man, got two straight offensive rebounds. And I was just like, it's tough to play the Rudy Gaubert role in that situation, I understand, but

could Bametabio be a better option here? Could Anthony Davis be a better option here? So I was kind of hating a little bit. I was hating a little bit. I know. Sorry, Pena. Sorry. We're not doing this today.

We're not doing this today. He wasn't. No, he was not a better option today. He had a couple of good moments denying the ball to Yokic. He's obviously one of the better Yokic defenders on the team. Anthony Davis was not an option. Literally every time he got on the court, Yokic saw him, posted him up, got an immediate foul right away on those hooks,

maybe questionable calls. But we know this, you know, Yokage tends to see Anthony Davis and, get a little hungry, you know? He wasn't the guy today. I think Embed did a pretty good job on Joker defensively in the moments that he had him. Yeah, he got lost a few times. I also think, you know, look, I was, you know, tracking, tracking the three-point shooting off of screens from the Serbian guys really didn't matter who it was. A lot of it really, to me, fell on the guards. And Dwayne Wade actually made this good point that the team USA didn't want to get back cut. So they played it pretty honest. Our boy, Derek White, was getting lost on screens.

Steph Curry was getting lost on screens, too. Like, that's the other thing. You got to remember the other side of the equation of those pick and rolls with Steph, who has been getting crushed, you know, by every opposing, you know, guard that there is. It's been, you know, a big part of the game plan for Team USA's opponents. So there's two sides of that. And, you know, I wasn't even going to go there with Steph today. I think he made it, made it up, you know. 10-fold. It was really just a shootout in the start. There was a moment where Steph is just in his head-shaking game four against Boston in 2022 mode. Like, he's just not

happy. And then Abramovich for Serbia, he's doing like the Kobe clenched jaw. There's a moment where they're running down. They're guarding each other. I also think it's a nice moment of synchronicity that he wears 30 for Serbia, but he wanted to fistpump Steph and you could tell that Steph didn't want to do it. It was like when a famous person is like, yeah, sure, we can take a picture. He just wasn't into it, but he did it. It was just what was like immediately it was on. It was immediately on. I think everybody just came to win. It was such a fun game. I want to focus on that. I want to focus on that. And the fact that honestly, M.B. came to play. Like it was, I think his screening was really awesome.

I think that's also part of the story of Steph opening up. He was awesome. I'm sorry. Like he had some moments. Yeah, he's a little bit slower. There was also. We could say he acquitted himself in this game. It was, I tweeted this.

It was, would you argue that this was the biggest game of his life up to this point? I mean, he's been in some game sevens for the playoffs. You know, there's like the Hawks game. There was game seven against the Raptors. Those feel pretty vital to me. This one, I would say, in terms of the narrative around him, the Yokic versus Embed debate, the conversations about how much his game translates to international basketball,

the conversations around him getting benched versus South Sudan. You know, the question of really how much he was even going to be able to be effective. I think, you know what? Maybe. Maybe. I think when you consider everything, you consider the summer he's had with the podcast tour and the way people have reacted to that.

I think, yeah, I think that might actually be, that might actually be a good point. And it also, you know, he just hasn't gone that deep into the postseason before. But he was, yeah, yeah. He showed up. And it might have been the biggest game of his life. Yeah, I think you could definitely make that argument. And I'm, like I said, I think he acquitted himself in a lot of ways in this game.

And he actually had a, he had a sore ankle, I believe. And that's why he didn't play the second half in their last game. But, yeah, just fascinating to see, again, on a team where you can construct pretty much any lineup combination with out of these 12 guys, pick any five of them, basically. and you'll have a bunch of Hall of Famers, a bunch of All-MBA players, a bunch of All-Stars. And for Embed to close with a bunch of really old guys, like LeBron, KD, Steph,

I think Booker was the fifth guy out there. And it all worked. I mean, do you want to talk about things that didn't work for Team USA? Or do you want to talk about Nicole Yokic being coming so close to cementing himself as one of the 10 greatest players in the history of the sport. Let's save Yokish for a little bit later. I do want to talk, I think we should talk about the ways that, yes,

there are things that didn't work. And to Kerr's credit, he did end up getting the right five guys on the floor together when it mattered most. The fourth quarter starts with KD. But yeah, I think the place to start there is the team USA, they could never capitalize on Yokic not being on the floor for those, you know, just like the few stretches of the game that he wasn't because that all defense lineup that's you know definitely been fun in spurts just didn't have enough spacing and I think the time that

you could feel it the most was in the third quarter when they're trying to get Kevin Durant going but they also had Bamad of bio Anthony Davis true holiday and Derek white in the game um that flipped around with uh with Anthony Edwards at times um and there just wasn't enough spacing there wasn't enough for you know aunt who just didn't have a good game to get any dribble to penetration going down low too. I just found myself thinking, okay, you need something else. You know, at the half, I think it was non-Lebron and Curry players had 14 points at the half. They needed somebody else to get going. It felt like KD could be that guy. Booker was a little bit more quiet today. I just found myself thinking, get this guy in with the big guns. Don't make him, you know, have to pull up for

these mid-range jumpers, you know, against all the ball pressure in the world because you got two non-shooting bigs in the game, put him in with the big guns. And they did. That's how they started the fourth quarter. And it worked incredibly well. You give Kevin Durant space. And he's going to do some good things for you. Yeah. I thought that the, you know, normally throughout their entire run, Team USA's second unit, the, with the Bash brothers, with Bam and AD have been sensational particularly in the last two games against Serbia. And I thought, like, I was interested to see after the slow start in the first half with that group, that second unit, and then in the second half, them also playing poorly and Serbia doing a fantastic job defensively,

clogging the paint, not allowing any ant to get downhill or anything like that. I was interested to see if Kerr was going to go away from that and how he would do it. and ultimately it was, I'm going to lean on step. I'm going to lean on LeBron, who we haven't really even talked about. He had a triple double in this game and was like just sensational on defense throughout. He whenever the game looked like it was really going to get out of hand, which there were stretches where I was like, is this going to be a blowout? It was teetering.

He would hit some ridiculous fall away. He would put his shoulder into his man, get to the free throw line. he would push it in transition, go coast to coast. He would get a steal. I mean, every time Serbia, I think I don't know he did it once or twice, but trying to challenge LeBron James in the post, like, how much tape do you have on him where it's like maybe that's not a smart offensive strategy? I don't understand. I don't care who you are. Do not post up LeBron James.

It's not a smart thing to do. But so he was fantastic. But I just thought that they were going to go one big and really space the floor a look. little bit. I thought Drew Holiday was going to close because he's just, I thought he played tremendously on defense in the first half. But you know, the lineup works. And Steph was magic. And LeBron was, I mean, the last coast to coast layup he had to put him up four, I think it was, was, I mean, it's just, it's amazing that he's still doing this. I don't even know what else there is to say about him. But those guys were great. And it was cool to see Kurt.

really pick his guys in a tight spot because, as you said at the top, we haven't really seen a situation like that for Team USA where they're actually in a crunch time. And to see who he's leaning on and what type of lineup it is, I thought that was really fascinating. Yeah, I think he ended up playing the five guys that he had to play, the best five players in the game. I see the argument with Drew for sure. I was curious how he'd go with it. And I think the interesting thing is, for the most part, Team USA's biggest strength has been their defensive versatility. I think this was a game where it wasn't really about that. It was about we need some offense on the floor.

And I like the way that they adapted to that. And yeah, man, LeBron was awesome. He also, he had the layup that tied the game at 84. That was the one where you really felt USA was coming. Steph hits the three right after that. You're like, okay, now we're really here. And I feel like, you know, we talked about this a little bit before the pod. Boyan Bogdanovich got him.

going. I don't know what was going on with him and Carmelo, but they were jawing at each other. And then obviously, LeBron's got to, you know, he's got to be there for his banana boat guy. He gets in the middle of it. He starts getting angry. And I actually felt like, you know, in that second quarter, when it happened, LeBron gets a, he steals the ball and a gamble. And then on the next play after that, he tries it against Yokic, which is never a good idea. Ant tried it a couple times. Joelle tried it a couple of times. It reminded me of a play where Austin Reeves tried it in the regular season.

You can't do it. Don't do it. You can't try to. You can't do it. And you also, I mean, we're talking about a guy who has, you know, the quickest hands in the NBA as measured by P3. He is incredibly long. He has incredible feel.

He just, he's, he doesn't look like he's that strong with his hands, but he is. And he just knows when you're coming. So when that has. And it was sort of like, I was just like, that was a moment where I started to get a little bit like, oh, man, like Serbia is really going to make this a game because it felt like in most of the story with Team USA, other than Brazil, for the most part, it feels like has been they get a little bit surprised by the opponent that they're playing against. The opponent usually gets a bit of a lead in the first quarter. Team USA makes some defensive adjustments. They start getting off in transition and they just, you know, cruise to victory. and we all see a bunch of highlight reels.

The other thing I think played a factor into that not being the case is Serbia's transition defense was really good. They let Curry get a few threes, but they were just always back. There was a play where Yokic, he airballed that, you know, somber shuffle three that he, you know, has made a couple time in Lake Earth fans' faces. I felt like that was bringing back Nymercy airballed at this time. LeBron sprints on the other end.

Yokic sprints right back with him. then gets a, on the other end, gets a cross match against True Holiday, and three guys come over. You know, first of all, it's True Holiday. You know, it's maybe one guy on the double was fine. But Joelle comes over, KD comes over, and Serbia immediately just gets a corner three. It's like swing, swing.

The one that, on that note, too, I think it's been really fun to watch Yokish play in the context of Serbia, because you can really see where his basketball education has informed the kind of player that he is. Like, they all are incredibly selfish. The team is almost too unselfish. Like, when you see the way that they use him and the fact that they put other guys in the post instead of him sometimes, especially against a guy like LeBron James, you're just thinking like, man, this is a little bit too egalitarian. And it really reminded me of the first five or six years of the Joker's career.

we're like, come on, dude, like, it's you. It's you. You're the one here. You're the one here. But now it's like, it's really easy to understand where all of that came from. And they also just like, they all kind of have his temper. You know, they all, they all just get fired up the same way that he does too. Like it was really just like watching, it was like watching a, like a supercomputer of, of like all the things that make Yokic Yokic imposed onto five players. Yokic is incredible. You know I could talk about him for the next 99 minutes if I had to. I have a question for you, though, Sirate. Was there any point in this game when you thought Team USA was going to lose? Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because of the way that all of these mini runs were being answered over and over again.

and Serbia was shooting out of their minds from the three-point line. They didn't, TMSA didn't really ever figure out an answer to how to stop them from beyond the arc. I think the way that they set these screens, the way that they staggered them just made them really, really difficult to navigate. It didn't feel like Kerr wanted to go to switching. I don't think that would have necessarily worked that well. When they did towards the end of the game, it was a lot of, you know, Yokic on Booker doing whatever he wants. I think the game really came down to two turnovers from Boyan Bogdanovich. There was like the over and back.

And then there was a drive and kick that was completely out of control. And it felt like the game sort of, you know, they started to feel like, oh, we're really going to do this. There's also a wide open corner three that Doberich, who's been lights out, missed as well. I think Serbia could have won this game. Yeah. No question. I don't think it was like, yeah, I thought it looked like they were going to win the game. there were so many, many runs that Yokic would just end or Bogdanovich would just end or they

would hit a corner three or team USA would gamble when they shouldn't have or, you know, there were, there were a lot of questions that they couldn't really answer. So yeah, I mean, I was, honestly, by the time USA made its comeback, I was a little bit surprised. So the play where I was, I was texting people throughout the game like, I'm not nervous, I'm not nervous. I'm not nervous. And then in the fourth quarter, there was like eight minutes left. What were you most nervous about? Were you nervous at Team USA wasn't going to win? Were you nervous at Yokic wasn't going to win?

Were you nervous about the game as well as he was having? Were you nervous about Jason Tatum's minute total? Which let me just check. Yep, no, that was zero. I want to make it clear where you're, where is your allegiance is live? Of course. But first and foremost, I'm rooting hard for Team USA, big Team USA fan. I've been on the record about this being the greatest assemblage of talent in basketball history.

I would look very stupid if they were to lose this game. So there's that there. But also, yes, I'm for right now watching the Olympics a proud American for these couple weeks. But so with eight minutes left, they were up nine. Serbia was up nine. And, you know, for the whole second half, it looked like every time Team USA would go on this little run. and cut it to single digits, like immediately Serbia would respond. There would be a defensive breakdown by Team USA.

They would gamble, whatever it was. And it would just push up to 12, 13. And with about eight minutes left, Serbia, I think it was Miesich, grabbed a rebound, pushed, ran a pick and roll with Yokic. And Yokic got his like short roll, little floater. And it was an Ann one, LeBron fouled him, and that pushed it back up to 11.

And I was like, okay, I think that this, I'm now nervous because I've seen Yokic do this so many times to so many people. That's his signature shot. If he's getting to that, I don't know what you can do to slow him down and slow his team down. And what happened right after that was the six point possession where KD hits the three, 80 fouls or Yokic fouls, A.D. trying to set the screen for KD. and then side out team yosa gets the ball and booker hits the three at the top of the key and they cut it to i think

five and at that point i was like i yeah now i think they're going to win the game again but it was i think that crazy i think that sequence really i mean i've never seen anything like that because that's not how the rules work in the NBA um but that was an absolutely wild sequence that i just don't think can be overlooked. Yeah, that play was critical and it was also Yokic's fourth foul. And then, yeah, that really changed the game because it allowed Team USA to target him a lot more. It allowed them to just say, hey, Embed, go at him. Yokic was really, you know, he didn't really have much of a choice. He didn't, he couldn't play hard defense. They obviously needed him on the court. And the other thing I noticed too is that his screens just got a lot softer as well. Like, he wasn't really

screening as hard as he was throughout most of the game. And it shifted the way that they executed their offense. They started going more to him directly in the post, which is fine. I'm never against Nicola Yokic post-ups, but they did start trading some of their threes for more twos as well. And it just kind of got him out of their rhythm a little bit. So I think that that play was actually critical in so many ways. And when we go back in history and there isn't a documentary,

remade about this team and how they lost semifinals and had to go and fight for bronze. It was going to be because of that stretch where, you know, Kevin Durant hits a three, Booker hits the three. Yeah, never seen that rule before. Completely okay with it. Completely okay with a lot of the things that I'm seeing out of FIBA. The other one that's an easy one is just shot clock violations don't end. and, you know, we take the ball out.

Like, they just, like, reward the team for playing 24 seconds of good defense and they can just go out and transition. I think that's an easy one that we need to adapt. The game just goes by a lot quicker, the running clock. I'm enjoying the style of gameplay a lot. There was also, there was a good LeBron moment, too, in the fourth quarter where he swatted the ball off the cylinder. And team USA hadn't really figured out how,

to do the best times to do that. It's obviously not something that they're well practiced in. But I thought that was interesting as well. They're figuring out the FBA game. They're getting a lot more used to it. So that was pretty fun. I love that rule change so much. It's the best.

Like NBA, get it together. Come on. Is there anything else that you would take from the FBA and just say, hey, NBA, let's start doing it this way? I've noticed that the timeouts are shorter. And this is just anecdotal. But for me, someone who watches a ton of basketball, I'm like, can we hurry this up? Let's get back on the court, everybody.

Let's play the basketball game. And so when I'm watching these games, I mean, obviously the quarters are shorter, which is something I also appreciate. So that would be it. Let's play the basketball. You know what I mean? Like, we don't need all the TV timeouts. I know we got to pay the bills, but let's play the games as fast as possible.

That's just, and even at the end, like, when Team USA is making their comeback, it's like the rhythm of the game is just so beautiful. beautiful. It's like you're watching this. It's like water flowing. It's just like, they're coming. They're the lead is cut to five. The lead is cut to three. It's a tie ball game. And there's just like no, nothing is, there's no hitch in the game or the action. So I love that.

I love the rhythm of FIBA, to be honest with you, like way more than the NBA. And I know the NBA is trying to change it and make it faster, but it's just not even, I don't even close. It's very noticeable to me that that, that Fiva's better in that regard. Yeah, I have a proposal. You only get one replay review in the game, whether it's a challenge or not. I don't care what it is. And you can also, you should be able to replay review everything.

If it's a foul, if it's out of, bounce, if there was a foul before the play. Like, can we just, let's keep it moving. Everything comes out. I have a huge question for you now off of that. Okay, do you prefer the finger will in the circle or do you like the, yes? I love the TV thing they do. Oh, it's so good.

It's so good. I also think that you could repurpose that too into like if you make a really sick move and you want to say like basically like, hey, that's sports center. like do the TV thing. Yes, I 100% agree. That setback in the final moments of the game. I also thought it was interesting that they went to him. You know, it's always interesting.

Like you have Kurt, you hit all these shots. You have LeBron, one of the greatest players of all time. You had Kevin Durant. You had Joelle and B. You could have gone to him. He actually had Boyan McDonovic on him on that play. But they go to Kevin Durant. I'm never against that.

I mean, there's only, I'm never against any of those options. But I thought it was very fitting that it went to. you know, America's best FBA score of all time. I thought that was very fitting. And it would have just been picture perfect if after he hit that shot, he just did that little TV motion.

Could you picture, like, you know, obviously players like whirl their finger around when they're very aggravated and they think that they've been wronged and like picturing players, like do the TV thing, but like really upset and energized about it.

I just think that would be great television. I think that we need we need to bring that back or like bring it to the league 100%. I have a thing that I want to talk about with Yokic real quick. So he finished 0 for 6 from behind the three point line and hasn't really been hitting

threes. Like I feel like his I don't want to say it's broken or anything like that. But just has, yeah, it's been a bumpy ride, I would say, from behind the three. And if he just hit one or two, and these are wide open shots that the defense is giving

him. This could have been the outcome of the game could have been very different. When you're watching this game did you this is like kind of related to what I just said but not really. When you're watching this game, is there

any other basketball player like ever that you could say okay we would put this one player on this team that has basically no other NBA talent and have them go up against LeBron, Steph, KED, Devin Booker, Anthony Edwards, Bamadabio, Anthony Davis,

Joel Embed, and have that team be competitive and up by double digits. Like, can anyone do what Yokic did today, even though it was in a loss? No, I don't think so. And I was actually, I was texting with Rob about this. I was listening to him on Bill's podcast, and they were talking about the Nuggets Overrunder. And I do think that the Nuggets Overrunder is a little bit high. I can't remember what it is now, but it's in the low 50s. but the point that I made was that nobody has ever raised a floor like Nicolaiochic

he took that team and he's won a championship but this will forever be like my forever impression of how incredible he is and how much of a game-changing floor raiser in every facet of the court that he is he took that team during the year that like the NBA was back to traveling with COVID and you know it was like Isaiah Thomas is just having the best time ever because everybody's getting sick and he can go and play for every team. That team won 47 games. That was the non-Yokit, I mean the non-Jamal Murray season, right?

Non-Jamal Murray, no Michael Porter Jr. You had Will Barton playing like 36 minutes per game. You had all of these 10-day contract shuffling. And Yokish was the only player who played every game that season and was incredible. and obviously won the MVP that year. But, yeah, I think that's a really good question, and I think it really illustrates what makes him such a great player. You know, you see what he's like, you know, like, you see what he's allowed.

Actually, no, that's not fair. It's going to make the point that he's made Boyon so much better. But the truth is, boy on and survey, even without Yokic, is just one of the best international players. He's awesome. But, yeah, like, you can just, if you can cut and you can hit three-pointers and you're intuitive, and you play hard.

Yeah, and you play hard. You're going to have a really, really good time playing around Nicola Yokic. You can see it, you know, there's even the inverse argument can be made about guys that are no longer with him. Like Bruce Brown, even, you know, like all the jokes that have been going on with Jamal Murray and how much worse he's been with Team Canada. And that's a deeper story than just not being with Yokic. But it does make an impact. You know, I think everybody just, you can add, like, at least, like, three percentage points to your overall field goal percentage once you are playing with Yokic. And obviously, over the, over a course of a game and over a course of how much that makes an offense better, it's just, you know, it's undeniable.

Did you want 45 seconds to talk about Team Canada? Are you opening the door with the Jamal Murray? No, no, it's okay. You're good. You're okay. You know, the one thing I want to say, actually, this is, this is a good segue. into something I wanted to talk about. This was hard.

This was obviously very hard for Team USA. There were moments where it felt like they weren't going to win this game. There were moments where I was thinking, like, man, like, we're going to have to talk about, you know, legacies on the line here. We're going to have to talk about, like, the fact that this hasn't happened since 2004. And the difference with 2004 was that there were injuries on that 2004 team,

that team was a little bit more watered down in terms of, like, the NBA talent that they could have taken. taken with them. LeBron was obviously very young. Yeah, there were babies. There were babies. It was a stopgap team, and you weren't necessarily that worried about America's overall supremacy in basketball.

This is different. Regardless of the fact that Team USA won and we'll see what happens in the gold medal game against France, it's never going to be as easy as this ever again. And this was hard. You know, and that's where the Canada thing comes in because four years from now, we're going to have crime and room. I'm hard, baby.

But no, really. We're going to have Zach Eadie is actually going to be able to play on this team. Although the entire front, the front court problems will be solved by my guy, Olivier Rui, who is a 7-9, 18-year-old who's going to be playing in Florida next year. Team Canada just is going to be better. France is going to be better, you know, regardless of what happens. Four years from now, we're going to be, you know, talking about Victor Wenbanyama entering his prime and Risa Shea and Alex Sar and Salon and Pocom and more guys, you know, coming ahead of that, you know. It's just this feels like a threshold moment. You know, I think USA should feel pretty good about their chances against France.

I think, you know, if Serbia is shooting the lights out with, you know, Boyan going out of his mind and Yokic couldn't beat them, then I think they have a pretty good shot against France who they can put into a lot of difficult situations. But at the same time, like, this is it. I mean, like, there's a, there's a reason that every, you know, there's been like this sort of national anxiety over the supremacy of American basketball. Like today's game shows you exactly why because America brought their best. We got LeBron, Curry, Kevin Durant, Joelle and Bede on this team. Those four guys closed.

The only guy in that closing lineup that, you know, you could reasonably say is going to be on the 2028 roster is Booker. Maybe LeBron. I mean, you know, you just, at this point, you just don't know. But it really is going to be Anthony Edwards.

Maybe they start regretting how the Jalen Brown thing went down. And it's going to be Jason Tatum who, you know, just, you know, as far if you can make fun of whatever, but, you know, as far as sort of like trying to build for the future, I'd argue Steve Kerr has kind of taken the golden state past year. It's a great point. When you initially said that to me before we started recording, I kind of dismissed it a little bit because I am a arrogant American. But when you look at the players who are, first, when you look at like the best players in the world and the guys who are MVP candidates and actually winning the award, they're probably not American, first and foremost.

And secondly, yeah, Steph Curry is like 36, I think. LeBron is nearing 40, turns 40 in December. KD is 36, I believe. And so, and these are the, yeah, these were the most productive players in the game and the most productive players in this tournament to a certain degree. And I think that it would be, it's good to remind people that,

sorry, Jason Tatum was the second leading scorer in the last Olympics and scored 19 in the gold medal game, which is the second most on the team. And he's been a contributor for Team USA in the past, obviously. But his, you know, we're not going to spend a lot of time on this, but him not playing zero minutes in the last two games against Serbia, for matchup reasons, has really struck me as curious

and I don't agree with it at all, but they eeked out this win regardless without him. I think he's one of the better players on the team. But it's interesting, just like trying to finagle the best of the best from Team USA in 2020, what that will look like

compared to a Canada that is coming, a France that is definitely coming, and France will probably have the best player in that tournament. if Nicola Yokich keeps playing, why wouldn't he? His game is going to age beautifully.

Serbia will certainly be there. He retired from the NBA but just continues to play Feeba until he's 50. You know what? I could definitely see that happening. I'm not going to lie. I could see Nicole Yokic retiring after this upcoming season too. Nothing about him would totally

shock me. But the better players on this team won't be around for the next go. And as you said, this was a very competitive basketball game. And France is, I don't, I don't think Team USA is worried about France. We can preview this gold medal game upcoming, this upcoming weekend real quick. But like, I, I think that France is like slowly figuring some stuff out about themselves. And benching Rudy Gobert has been a big part of that. And playing Victor at the five, playing Yabu, uh, Gyrshan Yabu, uh, Gyrshaun Yabu,

at the five a little bit and him just like dominating. You don't want to spend 15 minutes on the dancing, the dancing bear. Easy, easy. Before we do want to, I do want to kind of like think about who, what is this next next generation of American basketball going to look like? And how big of a drop off is it going to be?

And also just to mention, Luca Dantjic was not here either. He wasn't here. Like that's, that is going, he is a guy who is going to continue to be a problem. as well. But, you know, if you look at it, it's really like, okay, Tatum, Anthony Edwards, Tyrese Halliburton is like your sort of core.

Jalen Brunson, baby. Jalen Brunson, who should have been on this team. Like, when you talk about trying to find the next great American star, we always do this, we always page in a hole. I've been guilty of it. I've, you know, been singing the praises of Anthony Edwards for an entire year. And there are obvious marketing appeal or reasons. And he's very entertaining that he has become the guy who has been, you know, foisted upon everybody. Jalen Brunton could easily become the next great American star that we are looking for.

He plays for the New York Knicks. He is incredibly inspiring. That team is, you know, could make a run at the finals this year. Just wanted to make that as a side note. Him, then you get Tyrese Maxie, Chet Home Grant. It's almost like when we did that podcast a few weeks ago, Jalen Williams, another guy. I think I mentioned Paulo. do you get to a place where you're like,

I guess we're bringing John Morant. You should for basketball reasons, but there's all the other sort of, like Scotty Barnes, another guy that, you know, he would actually probably play incredibly well in an international setting. But it reminds me of the team that we made with Kyle where we took out all the team USA guys

and, you know, we put him against the world. And I think it was Kyle who was in charge of making that team. And it was, I mean, frankly, it was, by American standards, and obviously all these guys are going to continue to improve, it was a little overwhelming. Yeah, I'm like thinking of some of the names that probably should be in the pipeline, who have teetered a little bit. And I'm thinking about like Cade Cunningham and Evan Mobley.

There's other names that are out the tip of my tongue right now. But like, there are some guys who could. For sure. For sure. There are some guys who could, you know, the next Olympics is four years. That's a very long time from now in terms of player development. And one of these guys could really pop and become a super duper star. Multiple guys, you know, we haven't mentioned Cooper Flagg, I don't think, who is, you know, the Great White Hope coming out of Maine and going to Duke.

So. Almost those guys are 18 right now. though, you know. Yeah. But maybe 20, 2032, I'm ready. I'm ready for them. Sure, exactly. So, I mean, I don't think it's like a,

it's a cause for too much stress if your team USA, but it is like a, I think Team OSA like definitely takes every team that they go up against seriously. The competition is fierce. There's more NBA talent dispersed around the world than never before. And there will be even more in. Los Angeles in 2008.

I will still take Team USA over the field and like every Olympics going forward for however long. But the gap is certainly closing and like the fact

that Victor Wenema will probably be the best player in those entire Olympics with other really good players on his team is scary because that dude

can single-handedly change so much on a basketball court as we saw today in their win over Germany. I don't know. If I,

I don't know Fando was offering the, uh, team USA versus a field bet for, for 2028 yet, but I would have, it's got to have, it's got to have pretty good odds.

But yeah, let's, let's talk a little bit about Germany, France. Um, really good game. Another really good game. Um,

I also have to say like probably the most fun I've had watching basketball or watching men's basketball on the last. Probably since game seven of the second round. like Timberwolves versus Nuggets, that was the last time I was really like up off of my seat excited which, you know, speaks to a little bit of

issues with the NBA playoffs, the NBA finals, but just really, really fun. Personally, it was one of my favorite post seasons in like at least 15 years, but continue.

Well, yeah, you, I mean, you got personal reasons. Yeah, it was, this game was really good. I think the most interesting thing was France's front court rotation.

Rudy O'Berrere really only played in the second quarter. We didn't see him other than that, despite the fact that Victor Wambaniama got off to a pretty tough start in this game. And then did really turn it on. Ironically, when Gobert got into the game, it was really weird. It was really weird watching him kind of get utilized as this sort of Patrick Beverly Sparkplug, we're not playing hard enough defense type of guy.

Like it was almost like It was almost like the French national team saw that their coach was putting Rudy Gober in the game and was like, oh yeah, we need to really up our ball pressure. Like, he's going back to Rudy right now. That's really what it felt like. And then after that, they do. Their ball pressure was incredible.

And Germany had really good ball pressure too, but my God. Like it was just, you know, you get having Frankie smokes and Cornyi, who has been in the starting lineup for Rudy Gobert and then, you know, add in the fact that Victor Wenbanyama is your five just switching on to guys, picking them up from 30 feet. It's a pretty nasty formula for some pretty stingy perimeter defense. I think the place where I'm really curious about Team USA is how they handle Yabuselli and how they handle the sort.

and just how much brands can handle a version of Team USA that plays at their best physically because then you start asking yourself questions of okay, do they rebound well enough to really not be able to afford to play Rudy Gobert? Are they protecting the rim well enough?

Like those are the questions that I'm kind of asking myself going into the game. I'm fascinated to just see, I always just watch Victor. Like he's, I know there's like a lot of stuff to focus on when France plays. I think their guards have been really impressive. Dancing Bear was great today.

Evan Fornier has hit some big shots and looks rejuvenated. That's fun to see. And they do, they're, I think that they play with a force on the glass as a team that has been like really inspiring and was a gut punch for Canada particular. I'm sorry to bring that up. you're absolutely right but I'm not some soul search in it but I think Wemby

Wembe's really been aggressive looking for his three ball a lot of that is because like there's just no space like the spacing for France when Victor Womenyama has the ball in his hands is just totally non-existent

when he doesn't have the ball he's I've never I mean I was he was getting double teamed off ball like front like And it was when they weren't even really trying to feed it to him, which was just like a fascinating defensive strategy by Germany. But he's just so imposing and so physical and so unlike anybody else, so singular. If the three ball falls in a basketball game and the crowd is behind him and he starts to get really confident and rolling, like, do you remember the game?

It was like it was against Phoenix. It was like one of his very first wins in the NBA when he scored like. Yeah. He scored like 37 or something. He went back and forth. Yeah. He scored like 37. He was blocking shots.

He was guarding KD. He was shutting down Devin Booker. He was doing like literally everything. If he has one of those performances in him and they get hot from behind the three point line as a team, if Batum starts sticking them in and Evan Fournier, as I just said, who knows? I mean, it's like it's one game and it's such a small time. frame relative to the NBA game where just like comebacks are they're hard and so like the fact that France shot like six or 27 or six or 29 behind the three point line and we're still in this game if not winning for a majority of it is really fascinating to me but they'll need to

get a hop behind the three point line to beat team USA I mean Serbia was 50% behind the three point line today in the first half. And conversely, like, there are games where Team USA could, they could easily lose if Katie doesn't, you know, miss his first shot in the fourth quarter, if Steph doesn't hit nine threes. So, like, Team USA always will need its talent to prevail in that way. But I just think, like, at the end of the day, Team USA defensively is, And it didn't really show up today for sustained stretches.

But defensively, I feel like that's where Team USA will win the gold medal. And it's why they've won and had so much success throughout the past few weeks. And so I expect that to be kind of what prevails. But it'll be fun. I think I'm not really giving France a chance, but I think it'll be a fun game. And I think like the energy in the arena will be just so electric. Yeah. I think you hit the nail on the head there with, you know,

the things that are going to matter. I also think that, you know, like, France just isn't a good three-point shooting to him. And I think that's part of the reason that they can't play Rudy and Wenbanyama together and why they've had so much success with him off the court. Like, the floor just opens up. A lot of these guys, they can just start driving the rim instead. And you can start doing these post-ups with Ybbiselli and Lassau. Germany had a lot of strategic decisions that were, quote-unquote, fascinating. One of them was just not bringing nearly enough double teams to all of those guys like basically at the entire front court

because France struggles from beyond the arc and I assume that the Americans will actually force them to beat them that way because they were just getting way too many points in the paint in this game and I'm also just really interested to see what the reffing situation looks like there have been some egregious moments everybody has talked about them so we don't really need to get into them

but yeah what happened Yeah, the gold medal game in France in Victor Wembeyanama's rookie season versus a team USA roster that stole Joel Embed. I just, I don't know, I could see some home cooking being served up. I could see some steak tartar. I could, you know, I could see some pickets. I don't know. What else do people eat in France?

I just, you know, I just, I don't think that it's going to be the friendliest environment to Team USA. And, you know, with all of the, all of the, the downward ball pressure to, I'm just like, okay, like, I keep trying to think of scenarios where France wins. And I think the scenario where France wins is like, they attack Steph and Booker in the perimeter. they get them both into foul trouble, exhaust them. The U.S. has an off shooting night. When Banjama goes crazy. They hit all their threes.

The refs give them like a 20-point free throw advantage. And the crowd just gets to Team USA. It gets to Joelle Embed, who I think is going to be huge in this game too, just with like the pressure that he can apply on, on Victor Women Yama. I think that's just going to be a really fun matchup to watch and a fun storyline overall.

I don't think any of those things will happen, but that's the pathway. There was also, I have to say, it's been a tough moment, tough time for Rudy Gobert here, where 37-year-old Manda DeColo is getting checked into the game before him. He only played three minutes,

but that was a real decision that was made. And I actually thought, you know, in fairness to Rudy, I kind of feel the same way about the Tatum situation. Tatum definitely could have played against Serbia. And I think Rudy could have played against Germany. It didn't end up mattering. I think it'll matter more against the U.S.,

especially with these AD BAM front courts and whatnot. I think it might be just a tougher call. Yeah, I think I expect Tatum to play in that game in the gold medal game and to play well. I expect, I don't know if Embed, if it's the if it's a similar situation for him um in terms of whether or not the the ad i don't know like i i'm it's hard for me to even analyze imb at this point coming off of today's game versus everything that we saw leading up to it for the most part but you know if he were to

play like i just don't think this game will be competitive to be honest with you like i just I think it will be a blowout. So we wouldn't see a situation or a scenario where it would matter who's closing. But, yeah. I think it really is more about who starts. And I imagine he'll start. And if your team USA, I think the way you want to use Embedde is just to try to throw around Wemba Niamma, just be so physical with him that he can't go and be Mr. Everything. Because that's been that's been Wembe's issue throughout most of this, you know, the international play too.

is, you know, he has been taken off his spot a little bit. As we know, it was sort of like the one weakness with him. I do that, I do think if you were to do that, I kind of feel like that would be playing into France's hands because, first of all, I'm not putting Victor Womenyama on Joelle and Bede at the start of the game. But second of all, if you force feed Joelle and B, that's like exactly what France would be like, that's terrific. Like, because he's not, that's when the rhythm just completely seeps out of their half-court off.

Team USA's half-court offense and they don't look like a very efficient and energized and like overwhelmingly talented basketball team where everyone is making everyone else better. So that would, I think that would, that would be, it's just a fascinating, strategic little quagmire though, but it's a, it's an interesting point you make. I think it's more about like if they can, it's a good point. think the difference today was they actually figured out the way to use him while allowing him to exist within the rhythm of the offense. And he hit some big shots in the first half, too. He had the only three that wasn't by LeBron or Curry when he hit that one in the corner. He hit a few on the pick and pop that weren't necessarily like, okay, we're just going to give the ball to Joel and beat and get out of the way. And I think he also started making quicker decisions,

too. That's probably one of the aspects of his performance at, you know, if you were to go be a sicko and watch this game again, which, like, I don't know, me personally. I'm not. But if somebody wanted to, I think that I would be really curious to think, like, just look at how many dribbles did he take before he got into his move? How many jab steps were there before he actually took a shot? Because it does feel like a lot of those things were moving faster too. Can we close with this question that I have for you about Team USA that I don't think is,

and has an obvious answer, but we probably will have the same answer. answer. And the question is, who is the most valuable player on Team USA right now? I don't know that I haven't answered that question. I think you're right. I would probably go with LeBron so far because I feel like he's kind of been the glue lie for a lot of these lineups. He's finished every single game. Kevin Durant and Devin Booker have also been really consistent. But I just think, I mean, this is a setting where a guy like LeBron really thrives, you know? LeBron is the correct answer

or the answer that I would also say triple double today his defense on Yokos down the stretch was amazing and he's just the you're right he's the guy who connects everybody he's the run stopper he's the run starter he's running point his two main game with Steph Curry is amazing

and I feel like he's the most irreplaceable player who can do things that no one else on the team can so it's just fascinating that he's nearly 40 years old and he's basically the well, the best player on the team and still and the most valuable one as well. So that's going to do it for today's show talking Team USA and Sir it. This was a lot of fun. I'm Michael Pina and I guess we'll talk to you guys next time.