The Ringer NBA Show - Team USA’s Topsy-Turvy Lineups, the Jarrett Allen Extension, and Phoenix Gets a Real Point Guard | Group Chat

Episode Date: August 1, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos are back to discuss the latest from Team USA, including Steve Kerr’s lineup changes, whether Bam Adebayo or Devin Booker is making the case for biggest leap candidate, and Jayson Tatum’s role (11:27). Then, they switch to their thoughts on the Jarrett Allen extension, the Suns' signing of Tyus Jones, and Gordon Hayward's retirement (42:52). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out rg-help.com to find out more, or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

If you're a fan of the inner workings of Hollywood, then check out my podcast, The Town, on the Ringer Podcast Network. My name's Matt Bellany. I'm founding partner at Puck and the writer of the What I'm Hearing newsletter. And with my show, The Town, I bring you the inside conversation about money and power in Hollywood. Every week, we've got three short episodes featuring real Hollywood insiders to tell you what people in town are actually talking about. We'll cover everything from why your favorite show was canceled overnight, which streamer

is on the brink of collapse, and which executive is on the hot seat. Disney, Netflix, who's up, down, and who will never eat lunch in this town again? Follow the town on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to this mid-Samar edition of group chat. I am Justin Barrier joining me as always. Rob Mahoney and ours, what is it, the Mayfair Queen? Well, I forgot the specific queen. It's Big Waz.

One by a landslide. Wearing the bear costume. He's doing it. What's up? I'm here, man. I'm chilling. summer in New York City. It is hot as all freaking hell.

But I'm enjoying it. Just went to a bodega for a bacon egg and cheese this morning. I'm in the vibes. I'm in the mood, man. That was the proper cadence of the bacon, egg and cheese. What's your overall steak and bodega culture? Like, where are you in those particular wars? It's how I grew up is what I did my whole life.

You know, the bodega cat, that's not a cliche, that's a thing. Definitely. To this day, when I hear like salsa or sosa merengue or bachata, I can, in my mind's eye, picture myself opening a bag of barbecue potato chips. You've a Pavlovian effect. You hear the music and you're like, I want to overpay for toilet paper right now. That's what I want to be doing. What do you guys think about bodegas outside of New York, though?

Because I've encountered a lot in my travels. And they always feel different. Well, for instance, I now live in Portland. I went to a bodega the other day. That's just a store. Yeah, I think that's where I'm getting to. Yeah. It was nice.

They had nice sandwiches, but it felt like more of a bougie sandwich shop that tacked on the bodega part. I don't mess with the small convenience store out of town. Like, get me to a Ralph or Kroger's properly. I'm not doing your little mom and pop situation outside of New York. But yes, everything is way more overpriced than it should be. But the guy knows your name at the counter. He knows your order. Like, it's a unique...

In action. Literally. I've been called the N-word by a Yemini guy. but not derogatorily. It's like a kid that grew up in my neighborhood, his whole life, we're doing it. He's doing it, right? But his family's from Yemen.

Like, that's just the culture of New York City. It's kind of crazy, man. I guess it's good to be part of the fabric of something, even if it's a bodega in this case. This is how we're making America great again, apparently, is bodegas and just casual racism. That's not offensive. Yeah.

Well, Justin, you kind of buried the lead in there, which is you no longer live in Los Angeles. That's right. I am now a man of the woods.

I don't know if you could tell by just my general demeanor if I feel more manly or more in touch with nature. But I actually do touch nature on a regular basis now because I do have a yard. You're touching grass.

I'm literally touching grass on a multi-time-a-day basis. That's right. I have a yard. yard, as I was explaining to Waz. I have no idea what I'm doing. But I'm glad. You know, I love L.A., but I think I was ready, ready to make the jump.

Well, my understanding was that you got some real estate help from this podcast, from putting it out into the world that you were interested in Portland. Wow. The dots were connected. You found a place there. Hopefully now, some people can reach out with lawn care advice for you. But I think ultimately what I'm getting at is group chat has changed your life. officially, inarguably,

this has changed you. You're welcome. In many ways. Yeah. Definitely added some conversation topics with my therapist, but also helped me find real estate in Portland. Yeah, actually several people after I mentioned that about a year ago reached out and we were like, oh, you need help, I can help out.

So I really appreciate it. Ultimately, went with my guy, Ash, Amstitz, and he was incredible, just awesome experience with him. So shouts to him for him for. for getting me in this lovely place in southeast Portland. Shout out to Ash. Shout out to the group chat nation.

They always step up for us when we really, really need them, which is mostly when real estate is involved. Except for our live show. I saw the damn fantasy show. I was like, Goddamn. We're in the wrong business. No.

Oh, my goodness. I think we need to do the Trump approach here and just be like our crowd was the biggest in history. I don't see any photographic evidence in the contrary. of the Elray Theater. That's right.

We had a huge crowd, summer saying, the best crowd of the residency. Definitely the realist crowd. You know, the people who did show up, those are the real sickos.

Everybody else, like, look, anyone can show up to a very popular event, but it takes a true demented mind to come to our live show. Facts.

It's quality, not quantity, when it comes to selling tickets to a show in which you were trying to make as much money as possible. Rob, how's your summer going?

Oh, it's very relaxed at the moment. You know, we're officially shifting down. I'm enjoying the Olympics. I'm trying to learn the rules of all of these sports all over again, as is my custom every four years. It's been a good time. You know, I think we are at finally the softest portion of the NBA calendar, Olympic basketball aside.

Yeah, I've been in New York since the 6th of July. A couple of, you know, Summer League. I did some thing in D.C. with my family, whatever. I've basically been here since a couple of weekends and, you know, just getting into the New York City vibe, like, and being in Brooklyn where, you know, I step outside the building and there's music blaring at all hours of the day. People barely paying attention to your order when you make one. It just feels good to be back, man. Really is the greatest city on earth, you know, from everything that you've laid out. In the history of mankind.

Rob Mahoney. I would never. Simply, I would never. Also, we're going on vacation next month to Europe. So getting ready for that. What's the attenary? Yeah, where we're going? We're doing Rome and then Barcelona.

Wow. Or as the natives say, Bartholone. You're supposed to save that. You're supposed to save that for when you come back was. Did you get the hookup from Daniel Eck? Are you getting the owner's box seats at Barcelona? No, so they're actually renovating. They're renovating, I haven't, but I should.

They're renovating Camp New, so I am going to catch a match, but it's going to be at the auxiliary stadium. It's not going to be at the actual, you know, Lionel Messi's kingdom. So, but I'm really excited about it. You're going to do the equivalent of like going to Leal France to watch some basketball effective. Right. Exactly.

I've heard Leal's nice. I don't know if you guys have been to France. I have no commentary on it whatsoever other than that it is distinctly not Paris. I just felt a way when I saw the surf competition was in Tahiti. I was like, bro. Really?

I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Olympic Village Me or nothing. Sorry. Well, first of all, where are they supposed to be surfing? That's the thing. Yeah.

There's no option. Oh, here's the question I was having as I was watching some of the more obscure ones. What do you guys think that we collectively would have been best at? Do you think like we would have leveraged Rob's Texanness and been good at like team pistols or something?

Well, first of all, the Americans are getting smoked in all the shooting events. So I don't know how much that exactly translates. That's crazy. Wild stuff. You know, I think we could pull off break dancing. Right?

One of the, I didn't know that was a sport. Oh yeah, we need one of the new events. like three on three basketball, breaking, like that's kind of what our lane needs to be where there's not this established tradition of competition. On the one hand, Jim or Freddenko are getting smoked out there. On the other hand,

how great can the competition level really be? Could we get out there three-on-three style? I think we could make a solid team, the three of us. Yeah, I would assume so, but they've been emailing me for two years straight about this upcoming Olympics, the break dancing community. So I would hope that these guys...

They've been recruiting you. I was about to say what? No, no, no. No, but like, yeah, they've really been promoting this thing to media for two years, inviting people to events all over the country, all of that stuff.

So I would hope that this stuff is like good by now. I would hope. I would hope. But, Justin, do you have a take on what we would be best at? Have you been training and steeplechase this whole time

and just not telling him? else about it? Doing the 40 across my yard as we speak. No, Pistols was the one I thought of if only because it seemed like it required the least amount of athleticism. I don't know if you guys have seen the photo of

the Turkish guy who looks like older Wojj who just doesn't even have the equipment on his face. He just like shows up, puts his hand in his pocket, and shoots. Like, I feel like I could do that with a week or two of training. A week or two of training. Yeah.

You know, I'm very versed in and guns. Yeah, but I feel like that guy is missing out on the best part of any new hobby, which is when you buy all the gear that you may or may not use ever again. And so he does look cool, but it also looks cool to have the little eye blinder and the lens to prevent blurring or whatever it is that all those, the various mechanisms do. I appreciate both approaches, is what I'm saying,

but personally, I love buying some new gear. You want to wear it to the club after? I mean, that goes to that same. because you can definitely expense it. You have to imagine, or at least write it off. Wait, can we expense it? I bet you can because I'm probably the one who has to approve it.

We have now talked about this on the podcast. Once we make it into content, I think we're allowed to expense anything. That's right. Well, since we're already talking about the Olympics, why don't we talk about Team USA who has pretty much just steamrolled over the competition over the past two games,

the first two games. already qualified for the quarterfinals, but nobody cares about that because all we care about is all NBA level players not playing in some of these games. Jason Tatum sits in the first game, starts the second and beat the opposite. My thing is, Rob, I think Steve Kerr might have the worst job at the Olympics, which is basically you have almost Alabama football level expectations where if you lose a single game, you are outcast from society. Oh, it's higher. It's higher than Alabama football level. Probably so.

But then he has to manage the personalities, the egos, the expectations of quite literally like 12 of the top, what, 30 players in the NBA? And having to sit, Tatum won, was tough, and now he has to do it with Embed. So Kerr, I think, is for doing winners and losers

of the Olympics as far, big old loser. A big old loser for the coach of a team that has won two games fairly decisively. Right. Team USA is in a weird position because yes, they have to make all these weird political choices as far as like

who plays and who doesn't and when and I think part of what is weird is the line between should you play Joelle and Bid or Jason Tatum some in these games or is it in a way less respectful to play them like a smattering of minutes as a backup than it would be to just kind of

pull the chain and change the entire look and lineup for what it's worth I actually do think the overall approach of kind of toggling between these two lineups that we've seen so far, and maybe there's other variations of that, is probably the right one for Team USA. They don't have the continuity. They don't have the baked-in style of play that all these other international teams have.

They just have, as you said, Justin, like some of the best players in the world. And what they can do is put the best tactical group on the floor that they can for a given matchup. And, like, that's what you saw against South Sudan is put more switchable defenders on the floor because Joelle was getting roasted in the drop when they played it in the friendly. And so there's a reason for it, but the result is guys are getting bagged a little bit for not playing in these games

when Jason Tatum and Joel and Bader are legitimately not just of the 30 best players, but of the five or six best players in the world. I've evolved on the topic when they didn't play Tatum. I don't know. Like the human in me was like, the guy should have got some minutes, you know,

like him just sitting there, not getting in the game off of the championship, first team all-N-B-A, like, he should have got some minutes. But then I sat on my couch yesterday and turned on the Sudan game and turned into the most maniac helicopter parent ever and was like super duper invested. And it just became, who cares, when it all costs. We killed Serbia. the decision was justified.

You know, like, we got to go out there and win. We got to go out there and kill people. If whatever Steve Kerr thinks is the best way to do that, I think is the right choice. And, like, that's where I'm at. It's like, in a game where we smoked one of the four best teams in the tournament by 25, we cannot be complaining about Steve Kerr's lineup choices. Period.

That's where I'm at with it. Now, my analytical mind, if I take it there, Jason Tatum takes a lot of time with the ball, not the best playmaker, wants to work his way into a long two, doesn't get downhill. He doesn't perform legitimate team functions

as efficiently as some of these other guys can. On offense, we should say. On offense, yes. On defense, he can be just as good as anybody. But, like, when I look at Tatum's game and the things that Steve Kerr specifically values, he ain't doing that. So I'm not that mad at it. We should point out that neither Tatum nor Embedde

was particularly good in either of these games. Like Embedd in particular was like kind of a mess. And so it did work out. I almost wonder though if defaulting to the matchups as an explanation for some of these big changes in the starting lineup, because we also got AD going into the starting lineup last game. Drew was demoted to the second tier in order to bring Tatum up.

I almost wonder it almost passes the buck a little bit from a Kerr personal decision to something a little bit more tactical so you could throw his hands up and be like, oh, not my decision. This is just what the matchups need. Look, we won. All of a sudden, this is fine when like I'm pretty sure Jason Tatum could have played 10 minutes in just like some capacity against Serbia. So a little political cover there, but you're right, things are working.

So at a certain point, how much can you have consternation about it? The realistic thing is there is no basketball game in the world in which Jason Tatum cannot participate. Like he is an incredibly versatile player who, yeah, he doesn't fit everything that they're trying to do. And you can see a really palpable difference between, say, for example, Kevin Durant knowing how to play with Steph Curry and guys like Devin Booker or Anthony Edwards or Jason Tatum, trying to figure out how to play with Steph Curry. And, like, LeBron has a really good sense of it. I think AD has a really good sense of it. Some of these wings are dribbling the air out of the ball when they get it.

And I would say, like, Ant at the top of the floor has been guilty of this. He's also one of the few people who can actually get to the basket, so it's not entirely unwelcome, but he is doing it. And so I am sympathetic to Steve Kerr in the sense that these are great players. Not all of them fit together in a way that makes complete optimal sense all the time, which is resulting in Team USA being one of the highest turnover teams in the tournament so far, they've also been one of the most dominant teams in the tournament so far. I think that's ultimately going to be the story of them is it's going to be sloppy, it's going to be uneven, the

matchups and the lineups are going to shift around. But I have a hard time seeing this team losing to anybody I've seen in the field so far, even with, you know, Germany's been very impressive. Like there are good contenders out there, but there's just nobody who has this kind of firepower. and that makes the world of difference at this point. Yeah, I'm happy these guys are kicking ass right now. I'm way more invested than I should be in the outcomes of these games. But to Rob's point, there was a play against South Sudan where KD's sort of dribbling maybe three feet outside the three-point line.

And I forget who he's directing. But he's like, no, like, go set the screen for Cs. Steph, something's about to come open from this. And Steph got a wide open corner three. He's like, I've seen this movie before. Like, no, no, no, no. They were doing something. He's like, no, no, no, do that.

And it resulted in a wide open corner three. Like, you know, some, Embed is as great as Embedd is. The setting up of teammates' knack is not natural to him. Like, he's made leaps and bounds of it. But, like, you know, I remember the days where a hard double on Mb was damn their automatic turnover, right? Like, but on this team, you need to be thinking that way, unless you're Aunt Edwards. But I just, I just, I don't know, man. I'm fine with it, dude.

I think the contrast between Embed and Yokoch was just really stark, where it's like Yokic is perfect for this setting where he is a, he wants to get everybody involved. He's able to empower lesser talents on the court words. and Bede is just more viscerally dominant and everything has to be built around what he is doing to the point where they were trying to force feed him post touches in the warm-up games. And so it's like he's just like the context isn't great for him.

I also don't think it helps the starting lineup issues that the second unit, as you guys kind of were alluding to, has been just so electric. Katie can't miss a shot. Anthony Edwards is the most fun player in this entire tournament. Bam has been awesome. I want to talk about him later.

So I almost wonder what we actually want is for the second unit to be the guys that we're rooting for here. Like, I almost wonder if we need a coup where the second unit just takes over the first unit. Or maybe they just do a tradeoff. Maybe the second unit starts some games. Maybe the first unit starts some others. It won't happen just because LeBron and Steph are just celebrities and they probably signed up for the fact that they couldn't do that.

But, like, I want to see the second unit way more than I want to see some of the lions of the game take the court again. I mean, you say that. and I agree with you about how awesome the second unit has been. It's also been awesome watching LeBron. It's also been awesome watching Steph like sprint around these guys

and try to figure out how to play with them. Like, I'll take all of it. I will say... Way doing the call while LeBron is on the court has been really fun. That's been really fun. The one tradeoff, you know, there's obviously been a lot of discussion about whether AD should just replace

Joel and Bid in the starting lineup full stop. I think the play merits that and he fits the way they're trying to play better. The tradeoff is, the AD-Bam combo has been so sick, I don't want to give it up. I really don't. And Katie and Aunt figuring into that mix, too, it really is such a dream second unit.

And that's where USA is bust in everybody's ass. Like, Serbia held serve when Yokic was in the game. And then when it's time for the reserves to come in, they just got run off the floor. So I've been having a great time, like, watching LeBron and Steph play together. They've been waiting for this. It's insane. Like, watching Steph set a screen on LeBron's man and both guys,

both defenders are being like, wait, what the fuck are we supposed to do right now? Like, that has been amazing. However, Aunt Edwards yesterday, he, like, you know, he did his overdribble thing, but it resulted in getting downhill, lefty layup. And maybe two possessions later on defense, He was pressuring full court, two guys by himself and caused the turnover. I was like, yo, this kid is, he's not of this planet, dude. And the enthusiasm and the fun that he's having out there.

And he's so geeked to be playing with KD. It's kind of hilarious and adorable. It's just been a fun ride for me, man. I don't know why I wasn't expecting myself to care about this, but I have been loving it. So we've had protective parent waz, we've had analyst waz, now we have true Patriot Waz coming out.

Listen, listen, I'm here for the red white little baby. I also like Edwards, as the broadcast was talking about how the point margin mattered, like how South Sudan was catching up later on, and Edwards just hit a pull-up three. I think in transition, they're like, well, doesn't matter anymore.

He was really trying at the end of the, games in a way that like I appreciated. But I think we should need to talk about Bam because he had an awesome game. I think he was the leading score for Team USA in the second game, 18 points. Hit two threes from the corner. Bam out of bio.

Swished them too. They looked pretty good. Bottom. Oh yeah. And so I was like kind of trying to figure out because every time the U.S. is in international competition, there's always like a guy who might take a leap as a result,

or at least that's one of the interesting petri dish sort of things about these competitions. It's a little tough when you have probably several of the top 50 players of all time here. I don't think KD is going to make much of a leap next season. But like Bam, for me, seems like the type of guy who might be able to tap into something next season, if only because it seems like the heat simultaneously are also leaning their timeline more into Bam. They drafted a center that he did in this draft. So I wonder if there's more opportunity for Bam to explore.

whatever is left of his offensive game. And the threes are obviously a big part of that. He only took 42 last season. But I wonder, like, maybe Bam has a little bit more to his game. Rob, what do you think about that? I think the tricky thing with Bam is when we are putting stars in a Team USA context, what's exciting is when you see these guys who have never shown, or really had an opportunity to show them, like, complementary skills because they always have the ball.

All of a sudden, they're playing off of other guys. They're cutting. They're moving. They're playing into a team. concept in a way that they don't usually in the NBA because it doesn't really serve them to. Bam, always does that. He's always been a good passer.

He's always been a good mover. He's always been a good screener and defender and finisher. Ball handler. He's taking the ball up full court. Full court, which is amazing. But it's all stuff that we've seen him do before other than I would say the threes and playing alongside another true center

in a really effective way. And maybe the level of true center that he needs to play alongside for that to really work has to be someone of Anthony Davis's caliber. If you just plug in a work-a-day center, maybe it doesn't work so well. But it's been really exciting

to watch him fit in that context. And he's always a guy where I think we have a hard time pinning down what we want from him offensively and what the heat should want from him offensively. Do you want him to be more of a go-to score because he's shown flashes of it, even in the playoffs, somewhat successfully?

But maybe there's a hard ceiling there because of how reliant he is on sort of like short to mid-range jumpers, if he's hitting threes at this level, that changes a lot in terms of what kind of player he can be and what the spacing of the floor can look like and where you want him contributing as much as anything. I think it's really cool as Spos on the staff.

So obviously he's encouraging him to embrace these other things, i.e. the corner threes and all of that stuff. But what's so exciting about it is like if Bam's going to make corner threes, thereby, you know, big man has to go play him out there, meaning he's not going to be in the paint. But also, like, when wings are switching out onto him, his team USA guys are looking for him on those switches, and he's bodying these dudes up and getting dunks out of it,

if he's going to combine those two things, like this is a whole different level of offensive threat. Like if he's going to be like, yo, let's say they're playing Boston and like Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum is trying to guard me down low and I'm going to kill these guys. Like if he's turning into that, splashing corner threes two, yeah, this is something way more exciting than even what he's already been, which is like perennial all star. Yeah. You know, everybody's level player. Yeah. Come on.

Well, the other guy I was going to mention maybe not a leap candidate, but someone that's jumped out to. to me was Devin Booker, who has, in addition to LeBron and Steph, been the only other guy who started the first two games. And so it seems like he is locked into the third starting spot in one of the best collection of USA basketball players in history is probably second or third, probably behind the dream team. To me, that seems important, in part because of how easily he's transitioned to that, do everything sort of role. In first game, he had 12 points, five assists, second game, 10.6 assists. I'm like starting to look at Devin Booker.

I'm like a little differently. Because I think about this guy a few years ago. We thought he was like an empty calories, ball pounder who only was going to get his. If anything, he seems to be the skeleton key that's kind of making the starting unit makes sense to a certain degree. Yeah, I think his skill set just makes a lot of sense alongside LeBron and Steph in particular. When you think about the alternatives where it's, you know, Tatum, who's shot from three in particular, is not really falling. Anthony Edwards, who's always going to be more of a guy who gravitates toward having the ball in his hands versus playing off of it.

Booker makes a ton of sense with that starting group. I thought Drew Holiday has also made a ton of sense with that starting group, especially for what he gives you defensively. Like, Steph Garden Carlic Jones was not it for the most part. That went okay in the first half. Did not go great in the second half. It's good to have a designated defender out there like Drew. But I think Devin is kind of dug it in that way too. Like he's been playing tough defensively.

and he's just a spacer and a mover in a way that some of these other guys on the team just aren't by type. So that's the thing with Steve Kerr and his idea that like, well, theoretically, everybody should be able to do everything. Everybody should be able to set a good screen. Everybody should be able to make an open three. Everybody should be able to, you know, replace. Like, Devin Booker has incredible size for his position. Like, it's underrated how, like, big this guy is. And he's playing his ass off on defense.

And, yeah, when a guy attacks him on a close out, he's like, okay, I could take one dribble and swish a pull-up long range, too. That's easy. You're going to leave me open? Like, that splash. You want me to run a couple of picking rolls while Steph does his thing off ball? Like, he just does everything. So it's just, like, cool to watch him utilize all of his complementary skills

while also knowing, like, we've seen this guy being on ball. demolition derby on his own. Like he has that in him, but he's like, fuck it, Team USA, I'll do this other stuff. It's just great. And not to tip our hand for later in the pod,

I think it suits him to not be pounding the ball and being that sort of on-ball force all the time. You want to be able to harness it, and he's always going to play. A player who can handle and shoot and create the way he does is always going to be in a lot of pick and roll. It doesn't mean he has to do everything. And if anything, his Team USA journey

has been a lot of training. transitioning from the friendlies, trying to do a little too much off the dribble, to now really settling into this role as a complimentary shooter for this group. He's also the ultimate Kerr type of player, too. Like, it's not a coincidence that Kerr's defaulting to more of these ball mover, ball finds energy sort of guys who could also be physical enough to set some screens. Like, the difference between Tatum and Booker is kind of that, right? Physicality.

Yeah. Yeah. But by the end of these Olympics, I think Steve Kerr will be willing to, lay down his own life for Derek White. I think that is the transition that he's going through as a person. And honestly, watching these games, I get it. It's justified. He's been awesome.

Like little spot minutes here and there, but he comes in and immediately changes the game. So there's one play that comes to mind. Ant is doing his dribble, dribble, dribble, dribble routine. Derek White fakes his guy to three-point line, goes back doing his wide open on a cut. Aunt misses him. Derek White goes, and then just goes back into the routine.

Like, it's just like, whatever. I made a great play. They missed me. I'm back into the action. Like, I was just like, yo, this guy is fucking perfect for what they're trying to do. Like, he made an incredible play. His man missed him. Moved on.

He just moved on. He had a quick moment. Like, I was open. But then he just went right back into it. Like, just awesome. And they do need that. Like, it is striking watching these USA's, South Sudan games because South Sudan moves really well without the ball.

They have great cutting. They have great action. They're very well coached. Derek White cuts well. Steph obviously cuts and screens really well. Booker has been doing that well. Otherwise, there still is a lot of standing around for USA. And even possessions where it's just Drew Holiday at the top of the floor dribbling for

eight seconds. It's like they're trying to figure out what to do. They're trying to find their style. And it's obviously not going to be the same as South Sudan's. But any bit of that sort of movement and dynamism that you're getting from someone like Derek White can really go a long way. Yeah. And so, like, guys like that, I think feed into what Kerr would want to do just in any context. But I have to stop myself a lot of the times because I do think some of the things that we're starting to see almost emboldens what I already thought about certain players.

Like, the fact that Ant is just the most electric, charismatic dude on the floor who you just. want to see play 30 to 40 minutes in these games. Like, that's how I feel about him in general. I feel like making E. Bam, for instance, has like a little bit of something that he needs to tap into. Booker might be a little underrated. Tatum might be a little overrated. And so, like, I know I shouldn't do it because I know this is not NBA basketball.

But, like, I can't help myself. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, just being like, oh, yeah, this is like, this is what I believe. And I'm glad I see this context because it just feeds into that. Well, to bring this full circle, given our Olympic conversation about what events facetiously we could compete in, Anthony Edwards, I believe, said that he could give Lily Zhang the business and table tennis. Yeah, he did. And I think he actually believes that in the same way that he has previously said, like, he could have played pro baseball. And who are we to disagree with Anthony Edwards being able to do literally anything at this point?

So they had, obviously I'm locked in on Team USA on social because they've been just putting out incredible content. And Ants sitting there and he's like, you know, they're saying these people could kick my ass at table tennis. Then they pan to the people who he's talking about. It's Olympian table tennis players. It's just good stuff. He's the best. He's the best. But do you guys have anything like that where you're like, oh, I thought this about this guy and now I think it even more?

So what happened is kind of related to that. So everybody had kind of been killing Tatum on social through the friendlies. Like people are just disappointed in what Tatum has brought to bear since the playoffs and like, yeah, they won a championship. But people, there's just a sense on the basketball internet that people want more. And I go into it, I'm like, you know, I see all of that. And I'm just like, these people don't know what they're talking about. Whatever. Like, get out of here.

Like, y'all don't know shit. Like, Tatum is fine. Don't worry about it. And then I watch him play. And I'm like, they're kind of right. Jesus. I'd like to see a little bit more out of this dude, man. Like, I don't want to say Tatum's overrated.

But, like, again, the cold. By saying that, I think you just suggested it. I would like to see some more. That's it. The Cole Ruthless Killer me. 10 guy. So still. And he has all of these gifts that he can bring to every single game.

But it just feels like he should be doing and contributing more than he is. And that feeling has not left me. Well, I think it continues our conversation about the fact that he, unlike other superstars who have gone through the trials and finally won a title, he's not really on the arc that those guys are on. Like he has grown and developed, but gradually and incrementally, and he never took that step to becoming a Kevin Durant-level shot creator, and that's okay. But it contributes to us looking at these Olympics.

We're like, oh, he's done all these things this year, including winning the title. Now is the chance for him to kind of step to the four of the league. That is not the player he is. He will never have the moment in these Olympics like Kevin Durant did against Serbia, where he comes in and is just a flamethrower for a concentrated period of time. and so clearly the best guy on the court. Jason Tatum will be regularly awesome

and often awesome in ways that are not related to scoring necessarily, but related to more of a team contribution. And that's okay too. It's okay to not be LeBron James and Kevin Durant. It's okay to maybe not even be Anthony Edwards as a shot creator. That can be okay too.

Jason Tatum is still an amazing player. And I think we're kind of wrapping our heads around what his version of stardom and greatness looks like because it's not what it looks like for these other guys. If anything, I think the past two games have just punctuated how good of a context the Celtics built in order to make the Brown and Tatum partnership work.

The fact that Holiday and White instantly have become two indispensable role players amongst the best collection talent that I can remember really highlights how good they are at making all the in-between stuff work. And so if anything, like, I think more about those two guys as a result of this. I don't, my Tatum opinion probably isn't fluctuating all that much. I think he is a top 10 player, a little probably overrated for being honest. But anything, I think those two guys

deserve thought it's more than he deserves anything taken away from. The overrating depends on who you talk to. I feel like we can be sanguine about these things to say that he is not one of the five best players in the world, but he's not that far off from that. conversation. And I think what's happening to is that a team as dominant as the Celtics were, we're used to their best player being much better than what Jason Tatum is. We're just not used to a dominant team having that makeup. Like when the Warriors won 67 games, you know, and Steph had his coming out party,

it was just like, that guy's their best player. And it's very obvious that he's so much better than. everybody who's going up against, like, it was so clear, right? And the Celtics feel like, I don't think there's 67 wins, Warriors level. But I don't think they're that far away in terms of how talented and how much they could kick people's asses. And when you look at the best player on the team and you're just like, he's not that dominant, right? It's just not something we're used to. When the Heat won 66 games, like the best player just jumped off of the page.

Right. And it's just not happening. Between being a dominant player and being the best player on a dominant team. And I think that's what Boston is and has been. So I want to ask you guys this because we're probably not going to pod for another month. It's looking like somebody, and we don't want to count our eggs before they hatch. I think USA is going to win gold. I think they're going to do it quite in a pretty dominant fashion.

but you know Steph KD LeBron like these guys are between 35 and 40 years old we think they're not going to play in the next Olympics like what do we think about the Jama rant

Team USA what is this who are the people that are going to like carry this thing and make sure that we're still beating everybody up well that's such a weird thing about Tatum because I think if all of the old guard didn't come back for one last dance,

it probably would have been Edwards, maybe Tatum as the faces of this team. I also don't think that's necessarily that battle look. I think part of what is complicated for Tatum is playing with some of these other older guys. He just doesn't necessarily fit into some of those lineups that well. If it was him and Ant as kind of the co-leaders, I think that can work. But I think that's what you're seeing in terms of the younger side of this roster. and I would say, aunt with a bullet,

that has to be the hope with him, is that he can be kind of the face of the next great U.S. Olympic team after this one. Halliburton, who's playing the, what's his name, from Duke,

the Leitner role for this team, all of a sudden? Are we going to drag Zion out of Popeyes and bring them to the next, we're going to bring them to L.A.? Like, you know, I'm just wondering, because Steph LaBron,

And KD are so influential to what's happening right now. I'm just like, all right, who's going to do this next? Because it's going to hurt me if we lose to freaking France in the next Olympics. It is. I don't want to see it happen. It's going to hurt me if Franz Wagner is flexing on people and all. Like, that's going to get on my nerves. And I just wonder.

from the last year's World Championship will come back and hopefully be on the level that like some of these other guys were a couple of years ago. We're like Ben Carroll will probably be a starter down the road. You assume Brunson would want to come back and be a starter.

Now, that team struggled pretty historically a couple years ago, but maybe with some seasoning, they'll be able to still be dominant in a way. But I mean, I think the answer is like we probably won't win every tournament going forward to. This might be the last, last time where we just steamroll the competition in this sort of way.

That hurts me. That hurts me. There's a changing of the guard, clearly in terms of what the face of the NBA is going to look like over the next five years. Of course, that applies to USA basketball as well. And this is why you get into the Anthony Edwards discussion. It's why, you know, Cooper Flag has been touted in the way that he's been touted. Let us pray.

We'll see how good he is. We'll see, you know, like, is Chet Holmgren a part of USA Basketball's future? Like, there are young players in the pipeline who could make a ton of sense. And there are good young players still in their prime on this team or maybe young as a stretch, but like Devin Booker could easily be a part of the next Olympic team too. So there's a good amount of continuity and continuity in the program. It's just not going to have Kevin Durant and LeBron James level star power attached to it.

This is a special thing. And seeing these guys take these games so seriously, this is the closest it's felt to 08 since 08, as far as just the level of intensity for a group that is as storied is this. Yeah. Scotty Barnes, another guy,

Brandon Miller. Like, there's just like other abundance of talent. This guy, someone's going to need to step up. But Steph KD and LeBron.

It's a special thing. What are we going to do without these guys? Justin, can I give you one more piece of confirmation bias non-Team USA division from the Olympics?

Let's do it. I just want to say there's a visionary basketball player out there scoring more on a per game basis than any American, then Shea, then Yokic,

then Franz Wagner, Olympic great international basketball great, Franz Wagner, his name is Santi Aldama. And I just want you to... Oh, I thought this is going to be a Mietch thing. No,

I just wanted you both to respect Sonti Lama's game and what he's doing for Spain right now. That's all. Is he going to start for the Grizzlies? No, no, right? Absolutely not. Not going to happen.

I'm glad the legacy of your take lives on. Congratulations. Thank you. All right. Why don't we transition now to some MBA news? Because we got some yesterday, before we recorded this on Thursday. Jared Allen extended three years, $91 million that locks them up in Cleveland, or at least to this contract through 2028, 29. And now, if I had told you was before this summer,

if the Cavs were going to give extensions and bring back Jared Allen, Evan Mobile, and Donovan Mitchell, what would you have said? I would have been quite surprised. Donovan Mitchell obviously has been long rumored to not want to be in a quote-unquote small market anymore and that his bags have been packed since the minute Cleveland traded for him. But then, you know, Shams reported, like,

you know, obviously he's locked in over there and was like, yo, bro, it's looking like they're going to re-sign this guy and he's going to stay. Evan Mobley never gave that any real serious thought. Yeah, that was going to happen. Like, GMs fall in love with their second round picks. Like, the guy that they drafted number four, thinking he was going to be some KG, Chris Brasch hybrid.

I knew they weren't going to just give up on that. But Jared Allen, surely, even after the Wohl, excuse me, the Shams report, I was like, surely they're going to, like, abandoned this too big system and going all in on Mobley, like, surely. And there will, they would have been suitors for Jared Allen services. Like, this guy is still one of the better bigs. He's in the, you know, he's on the upper tier of starting big men centers, specifically in the league.

And so I thought for sure he would be gone because they could get stuff for him. And they could do, you know, the thing of elevating Mobley to like our permanent only big guy. And, you know, the one big lineup unlocked so many things for Donovan Mitchell and these guys. And I thought that this guy was gone. And the fact that they did the opposite, not only kept him, but extended him, is quite remarkable. Yeah, there's kind of a staggered timeline now for all of those new deals and extensions. But the through line is all of those core members of the Cavs, including Darius Garland, too, are locked in for at least three more seasons.

that doesn't mean they're going to stay that term. And I think what's surprising about the Allen deal, I don't have a problem with the money. It's really a pretty reasonable extension in terms of what he's going to be taking up relative to the cap. He's a really good player who could be useful to a lot of teams and is useful to the Cavs, if also a little bit of a clunky fit.

I just don't necessarily understand the timing. I don't feel like this deal was going to be impossible down the line. And so if you want to keep Jared Allen, And I think there's other ways to keep Jared Allen that don't limit what you can do via trade for the next six months after signing him to this extension, right? Like this, if anything, kind of delays a lot of the decision points for the Cavs, as far as what the future of their team looks like.

But in doing so, maybe that's the Cavs saying that they are committed to at least some version of this in the short term. That's what I'm wondering. Does this ultimately signal that the Cavs have actually made their choice and that they're going to continue on with the two big setup, at least for another season, which I actually think makes a lot of sense. I think more Mobley at the five has to happen,

but I do wonder if you still need another season to ease him into it. And so having Allen there to play with him, play without him, I think might be their best bet. Obviously, Mitchell played very well with either one of them, just playing one there. And I think Mobley, his key is going to be shooting threes regardless. And so if he could stretch, maybe that partnership actually is better next season,

just like doing the same thing over and over again. I almost wonder if what we're seeing, though, is them committing a lot of money to their core, but the guy that they haven't committed more money to Darius Garland is the one who might be the easiest one to now trade here. If only because, like, I think he might have the most value on the open market. Whereas Allen, for instance, maybe was a tougher guy to trade because he's a center. What are you going to get for a center in today's market? Garland, on the other hand, I think if only because the team is now so expensive,

would make the most sense to move of the four if they were going to do something. Well, they have committed money to him, just not this summer, we should say. He's on a long-term deal. He's also a player who's coming off of, kind of, I would say, a low point in what his trade value probably is.

Really talented player, really capable playmaker, was going through a lot, injury-wise last season that clearly affected his play and probably his energy level, too, if we're being honest, it feels weird to trade him right this second.

But if you're, thinking about how the Cavs could play out this upcoming season, he does, he is a guy who makes sense where if you do hit a rough patch in the early stages of the season, maybe by the deadline, Darius Garland is on another team somewhere. And obviously, if everything goes according to plan, then you try to figure out a way to make it all work. And his pairing with Mitchell, I think has been the most disappointing part of Donovan Mitchell's Cavs tenure. I really thought those two guys would be able to work off of each other a little more. And it is a bit more of a your turn, my turn

kind of orchestration for them. They have not been active enough off the ball to really make their partnership make any kind of sense, especially when you're already giving up so much defensively between the size of those two guys. Yeah, I mean,

the commitment to Donovan Mitchell, and it's like, I'm the guy that drops 40 in big playoff games, so I'm going to dominate possession. To me, that this doesn't bode well for Garland's long-term future with the team. Like, if he's not going to get to use the ball, like, it becomes pointless.

We should say when he has tried to use the ball in the playoffs, it hasn't gone great. It hasn't been great. But I think that's, but to me, like, yes, he can't individually just cook teams. But I think if Donovan Mitchell were more willing to be a secondary helper, you know, be a movement guy. be a cutter, be a guy that's going to come off a bunch of screens and splash streets because this guy's an incredible shooter.

Like, Donovan Mitchell is like one of our best shooters in the NBA, right? And so his unwillingness to be that kind of guy when Garland's on the ball is just like, there's just no reason for it. If he's not being optimized, send him some way where he could have the ball, man. And, you know, and I think a George Hill drew holiday. type of guy makes the most sense next to Donovan Mitchell, Alex Caruso, that kind of guy in the back court

would make the most sense and they should probably try to figure something like that out and get something of value for Garland. I'm still a big believer in. I just like his instincts in his game, but I just don't think he's going to be optimized in Cleveland. I ultimately think that this might just be

the most reasonable outcome for Cleveland's off-season. season. If you couldn't trade Alan or any of these guys for guys of huge value, like, roll it back, see what Kenny Atkinson, their new head coach, can do with the existing talent. And if it doesn't work out in the ways that you had hoped, if he couldn't reimagine the Garland Mitchell pairing, like then you just move Garland. Ultimately, I think it's hard for any team to be paying this much to four different players, let alone a small market like Cleveland, even though they do have the rocket mortgage money coming through there. And I ultimately don't, I wonder if like the best possible version of a Donovan Mitchell led team is to trade Garland for more three and D type of guys where it's like Mitchell gets to do his thing unencumbered by another guy who wants the ball and you just load up on defenders around him, not unlike they had in Utah with Mobley being the swing person.

If Mobley hits in the way that you think, then like then the team can just be a much better version of what you had there. And so ultimately I think this is kind of like the Occam's Razor offseason for Cleveland where it's like, this seems all pretty reasonable. I get what they're doing. I think the tough part for them is they're coming into a season now where Philly is going to be much better. New York is going to be significantly better. Milwaukee could easily take a step forward just by being healthier.

Orlando, you would think, is a position to continue to grow and change and evolve. The Cavs had a nice spot and we're able to get to the second round because of it. And that's a great outcome. Like, that's a successful season. I don't want to shortchange them on that. it just gets harder from here unless Mobley takes the kind of jump that we haven't seen so far.

He really is, you know, Garland can clearly grow and change and improve as a player too, but Mobley is the guy with the most that's kind of untapped in terms of what he could potentially be. And if he is or isn't that,

I think, sways this as much as anything. And the fixtures, whether it's Donovan Mitchell or Jared Allen or however you want to think about the architecture of the Cavs, all of that stuff matters. But the piece that's really going to define

who the Cavs can be and who they can beat, I think it's still Evan Mobley. And because we've seen the ceiling of what a Donovan Mitchell team can do, we've seen his limits and what the walls that he runs into, even though he was able to kind of crack through some of that during this most recent playoff run. But in the second round,

going against a team like the Celtics, there's just nothing for him to do at that point. And so they have to find a way to evolve as a team, whether that's through the coaching change, whether that's through some internal development, whether that's playing the long game with some of this talent acquisition. But Alan, I have no problem with him being a critical piece of that moving forward.

If that's the direction that they want to move in and the style they want to move in, I don't think it's the easiest way for them to play. But it's probably the easiest way for them to construct a team that can get through the regular season successfully, battle with some of these teams that have true bigs. All of that stuff matters too. Yeah. Well, speaking of teams hitting their heads in the playoffs, let's talk about the Phoenix Sons who signed one Tyas Jones for a bargain deal of one-year-

or $3.3 million. That isn't better and minimum. He is going to be their starting point guard. So I have to assume was that the expected sun's starting lineup

is Tyos Jones, Bradley Beal, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, Yusuf Nurkich. Are you thinking of the Suns any differently now with a full point guard

to organize what was, let's just be honest, a goddamn mess last season? Or do you think this actually introduces more problems, particularly maybe on the defense events?

No, I think it's important to have a guy out there whose agenda is organization and nothing else, right? Like, Devin Booker can organize what you want to do, but what comes naturally is attacking people trying to get buckets for him. And rightfully so, like, he's that great. Yeah. Yeah. But you need somebody who has nothing else on their people. plate, but making sure you run your stuff, making sure when you run it the first time and you

don't actually execute it, let's run it right this time and get something out of it, right? Like, just they needed this. And I think people for, like, we're so far removed from Memphis being this deep, top to bottom, juggernaut, and Tyos Jones being a major part of that. Like, every time John Moran got hurt, Tyson would just come in and be like, oh, this guy is a starting level worthy point guard. And to get this guy for $3 million, just two years and some change removed

from being that kind of guy from Memphis, I think it's a cool, man. I think it's amazing that they got him. And I do think it's going to help them a lot. Like, do I think it's going to be worth five or six wins? No, I don't think that. But I think in terms of inventing an identity for themselves, this goes way in that direction of actually achieving that

rather than Brad Bill and Devin Booker trying to figure out how to make an offense tick. I think the combination of Mike Budenholzer as a regular season head coach plus Tyos Jones orchestration and organization, I do think that could be worth five or six wins. I could easily see the suns getting into that low to mid-50s range with this group next season.

Wow. Well, I mean, they were already basically knocking on the door of it, right? It's not like they're that far off. If the health swings a little bit more beneficially to them with these new additions. And to get Tyos Jones, it's less about, oh, you got him for this figure and more, the sons cannot get anybody. They do not have the resources because of where they are salary-wise

to go out and spend a bunch of money on people. And so to get a player of Tyos Jones's caliber with one of the mechanisms they do have, which is for the minimum, is an unbelievable coup for their circumstances. Like, he could only do so much in Washington. I will say that. Like, it behooves Tyos Jones and Tyos Jones types to have some professionals around you

who do want to participate in the offense that you're trying to set up and help them run. And that will be a miraculous difference in Phoenix. Like, guys like Devin Booker and Kevin Durant are handling the ball more because they have to because of the way the son's roster was set up, you free some of those guys up, and we know what they can do.

We know what they can look like when they're put in a position to curl off screens rather than have to create everything for themselves. And there's going to be a balance there. I think figuring out how Bradley Beale fits into that mix is still something that they're trying to negotiate. And as you alluded to Justin, who guards the toughest opponents?

We saw what it looks like when Bradley Beale tries to guard Anthony Edwards. Terribly, I would say. what are you doing against not only Anthony Edwards, but Luca Donchich and Shea and John Morant? What are you doing against these elite creators that you're going to bump into in the Western Conference? And that's just some of the perimeter guys

that they're going to be running up against. Yeah, so my big question is, did Bradley Beal, whether he knows it or not, just become the most expensive six-man in NBA history? Because I don't think it's going to happen at the start, but I do think they're going to realize pretty quickly that what they need is just another wing defender out there in order to round out the good defensive Booker and Durant, both of whom are really competitive on that end, but you don't want

to overburden them, especially in a playoff setting. And so I almost wonder if they don't start this way, because Jones made it very clear that he is expecting to start. I think that's probably a big reason why he accepted such a low dollar amount in order to go there to get the starting job up his value again and go back on the market next season, whether or not the closing lineup is going to be Jones, like Royce O'Neill, for instance, Booker-Durant, and maybe Nirkich. I mean, Royce O'Neill is not that good defensively.

He's okay. He's better than Bradley Beal. I get where the bar is. And this is kind of the situation that the Suns now find themselves in where O'Neill was really good for them. But I would say more so on offense than defense. Like, he's competitive.

He tries, but he's relatively small and fairly limited in terms of what he can offer you defensively. Josh Akogi, bigger and more physical and a much better defender, but someone that defenses will not guard even when by percentage, his three-point shooting might tick up for a couple months at a time.

Overall, I think this is going to be what the suns are. I think Beal will continue to start. I do think when you flash across their lineup, they just don't have the sort of wing defensive alternatives that could make a compelling case. If there was like a rangy 6-8 defender just like sitting on the bench somewhere,

maybe you could make the argument. But as it stands, they're positioned to be small. They're positioned to be, again, very dynamic on offense. They're going to have to find minutes not only for Tyos Jones, but they brought in Monta Morris, too, I think is going to be a nice piece for them. Grayson Allen, recovering from his injury is going to be a yet again, a fixture piece for them. So they have a lot of guys who are like 6,5 and under that they're going to have to play.

I think the reality is whoever is at the three in those alignments is going to have the work cut out for them. I think unless Bradley Beal is going to, a flashback five to six years and he wants to be three and D Brad playing off of John Wall and like really embraces that. And I'm not even saying like that, at least the three point

part of that isn't still in him. I think it actually would behoove him to maybe go more off the ball and be playing more off of Booker and all those guys. I just don't see how it works. If it's not O'Neill, I think you need someone like him, if only to be

the low maintenance part of all this. Because if you're putting Jones on the ball and playing Booker and Durant off him, like, you're kind of expecting Beal to serve a role of a, like a lower tier, fourth option role player to begin with. And so it just makes a lot more sense if he's not a big part of that. I know it's difficult because of egos and reputation and all that. And maybe it won't happen because this team seems like it's built almost primarily off of reputation and ego. But I think ultimately that will be the crossroads that they're going a hit and I hope that they make the right decision, which is to probably diminish Beals'

role in all this. If you had to make your guess, Justin, if the Sons do go this route, how long do you think it'll take them to come to that realization? Is that like a December conversation where they come out of the in-season tournament? They're like, we need to try something dramatically different. We need to reinvent ourselves. Or is it something that may not happen until even later in the year? I would guess they encounter it by that point of the season, end of the calendar year.

but they probably won't make a decision or have to make a decision until around the deadline. I expect they'll encounter it at some point. Unless, I don't know if you guys have seen the clip circulating of a skinnier Yusuf Nerkats shooting a ton of threes. We got the Ben Simmons sizzle reel

of Yusuf Nerkich. So unless he becomes basically the stretch five of everyone's dreams, like I do think they're going to have some competition. I mean, unless they just get hurt again and they don't actually have to face these issues until later in the season. That's actually probably the most likely scenario.

It's possible. I'll say this about Yusuf Nurich. Being a five who can shoot threes, generally a good thing. I don't know why. Can you shoot threes? Yeah, yeah, I can shoot. It's janky as hell, but it goes in.

That's the important thing. I don't know why if you're a center on this team, you're looking at the players around you and saying, the best use of my talents is sitting in the corner. I know. It's wild. I can't imagine how you would get to that outcome, but I'll all do respect to Yusuf Nurkich

for putting that time in the gym working on stuff. Before we go here, I think our friends here want to pour one out for a legend. Yeah. In this league, because we got news that Gordon Hayward has retired. Yeah. At 34 years old.

34 years old. So younger than, all three of us here, which really just hammers home what old ass geysers we are at this point. I feel it. But we're still out here doing this in the summer, late July. Actually, it's August 1st. So we're just hotting our hearts out.

Quitters never win, Justin. Quitters never win. But listen, man, Gordon Hayward, you talk about our ages. I can still see that three-point shot against Duke just barely missing off the glass that he, like the fact that Butler went to two straight national championships with Gordon Hayward, Shelvin Mack, who had a respectable career, but nobody's idea of some electric

player and Brad Stevens, like, I don't remember a single other person from those teams. It was damn there miracle. These guys almost pulled off a national championship at Butler. And I think my favorite thing about Gordon Hayward was like, if you really just looked at a white man named Gordon Hayward. who you would assume that this guy was a Steve Novak, just like, you know, shooter type of guy. But he was everything but that.

Like his shooting might have been his greatest weakness, and this is a guy that made an All-Star team, right? Like, could handle it, could guard the hell out of people, was an incredible playmaker. Like, you know, Boston missed that for years when he wasn't up there. His playmaking ability. Like, he was just such a fun player for me, personally to watch.

And that 2016-17 jazz team, they won 51 games. They weren't like some special team, but I watched them every freaking night on league pass. And I fell in love with guys like Alex Burke and Rodney Hood. And, you know, obviously, George Hill had a long career. They just had a, like, a really cool team. And Gordon Haywood was at the center of that. And I just, I always thought the world of this guy in his game.

And when he went to Boston, it's just a shame what happened, you know, like the catastrophic leg injury that he suffered that obviously impacted his career like immensely. Like the fact that this guy's retiring right now is proof that that injury was just horrific. But while he was right, I just thought he was just a really dope player type of guy that could play on any team with any kind of star.

Like he was just a dope, dope player for me, man. Yeah. The reality is that he hasn't been like a full-time NBA player for quite a few years now between the injuries and then even Charlotte was trying to load to manage him at certain point to prevent future injuries, it didn't work.

It just became impossible to keep him on the floor. But there was a reason why as recently as this past trade deadline we were talking about him as a potential impact player, even though his Thunder tenure turned out disastrously. I'm surprised even with how badly it went for Gordon Hayward in the Thunder that he's hanging it up completely at this point

and maybe that speaks to how he's feeling as much as anything or just kind of serving the landscape and seeing what opportunities would be available to him being like you know what I don't really want to be a 10-minute player for a middle-of-the-road team like maybe that's just not something he envisions for himself but I always loved his game too wise I always loved the there was like a Stephen Jackson comp

for Gordon Hayward's game in terms of just like all-around wing whose shot kind of comes and goes but like as a player with a complete floor game who had some playmaking to him, who could dig in defensively, who had good size, and I can see just like

the Gordon Hayward pivot, rockback, mid-range jumper in my sleep. Yes, I'm literally thinking about it. I love the place that he could fit on good teams. It was just a shame that we didn't get to see him do it all that much because he was hurt so often.

That's the sad thing, is he really became kind of symbolized what could have been with that Celtics era. A lot of ink has been spilled about Kyrie and his role in that and what did and did not happen. But the fact that Hayward got hurt in game one. Because Gordon Hayward came. He was like excited about it.

I still, it's one of those moments where you kind of remember where you were, where Gordon Hayward, his foot just gave out on him because it did kind of change the shape of the NBA, at least the Eastern Conference, for the next three to four years. That team was going to be awesome and did not ever have that moment,

even though he had some moments with the jazz. And he still popped off with the hornets here and there, which was always nice to see. But Celtics was supposed to be a special thing, and we never really got it. Yeah. It does suck that as we're talking through Gordon Hayward's career, the things he will be remembered for most

are a shot that almost went in and a traumatic on-court injury that left like every player on the floor shaking. Right? Those are the defining moments of who he was as a basketball player from the collegiate level on, which is a real shame for someone as talented as him. I'm going to miss watching him play.

I got to be honest with you. But we wish him well. I don't know what he's going to do as a retired 34-year-old. You know, election season is almost here. I'm sure he's going to be very busy getting out there for his guy. School choice was a big deal for that guy. So he'll probably be stumping for the charter school movement, for sure. Maybe I can get him on like a home DIY sort of thing.

Like start a new independent media company where we're just doing yard work together. would you guys like and subscribe to that? 100%. What is your role in that partnership? What is your home improvement specialty, do you think? I'm the one who just has the quick conversation on screen, and then as soon as they hit cut, they bring in the actual professionals to do all the work.

So I'm the talent. Okay. All right. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? If only so, I could just work on my pitch deck. Thank you to Eddie Ocampo on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz.

We'll be back, as was alluded to, end of August. So no group chat for another month, but we'll be back probably to wrap up Olympics and talk about whatever else is percolating here. Until then, we'll see you next time. Must be 21 plus and 18 plus in D.C. In present and select states, Fanduels offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC. Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit fandul.com slash RG in Colorado,

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