The Ringer NBA Show - The 2021 NBA Finals Is the Chris Paul Legacy Series | Real Ones

Episode Date: July 8, 2021

Logan and Raja discuss the Suns beating the Bucks in Game 1 of the NBA Finals (0:42), then go through The Ringer’s 2021 NBA Finals Entrance Survey and respond to all the questions (23:03). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Sasha Mac on the boards. Roger Bill here. Raja, I messed up. I just messed up. You know, you come in all professional and you always have your stuff right. You always send it in first.

I didn't do that today. I am not a real one today because I do not have, there's some technical difficulties on my end. So I'm recording on a voice memo right now. But you're here, bro. But you're here. But I'm here. But I'm here.

But I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. We are here the morning after. The Suns take game one of the NBA finals. Let me say that one more time. Let me say that one more time for the people in the back. The people in Scottsdale, the people in Tempe. Yeah, shout out Paradise Valley. Shout out Central. Shout out Camelback Mountain.

All right, we'll go shout out Scottsdale. Let me keep going. Glendale, Tempe. We'll go take it down to Tucson. Shout out Flagstaff. They're flagstaff. Okay. Sedona.

Shout out to all the people out there. Man, you always be, Roger, you always be shouting out the rich cities. When it comes out to Oakland, you go over here, shout out Piedmont, then you go to like the Paradise Valley and Scottsdale. You always shout out of the rich areas, bro. I wouldn't know.

Listen, my bad. No, I said, I mean, full disclosure, I don't really know Phoenix well enough to know all the other areas, but I love Phoenix in general. So shout out the whole, like. Shout out to Maricopa County. Mericop, there you go. Now you're fine.

Now you got it. I am just saying all this because I am currently not in Phoenix, and I really want my Crescent Ballroom Tacos, bro. I just really want my Crescent Ballroom tacos. But that's irrelevant. That's irrelevant. You guys have won game one of the NBA finals. Are you just basically saying that the Suns are just going to wrap it on up and four?

What were your first impressions of the first game? Yeah, I can't say that, Logan. I would not do that. You know how I feel about series and the game-to-game mood swings. And complexion changes to come with that. I thought the sons were great last night. You know, I think they executed a game plan offensively that exposed some things for Milwaukee.

They obviously, you know, the coverage that Milwaukee chose to employ was perfect for what Chris Paul and Devin Booker want to do. You know, I think they had a sound defensive game plan for Janus. They built that wall. Even though Janus wasn't his true self, they built a good wall. Jay Crowder didn't score a bucket,

but I thought he was real physical and set a tone with what they were going to do. And then they got contribution. So I thought the Sons were great. Now, here's why I wouldn't say that the series is over. Chris Paul was phenomenal, all right? Amazing. I can't see Milwaukee looking like that over and over and over again, right?

And if for no other reason, then I think Janus hadn't played basketball in about a week. And I think he'll be better, right? And there are a lot of other things I could go into, but I think he'll be better. I still think the Sons win it. I just don't think it's going to be a four-game sweep. This is what's concerning to me if I'm a Bucks fan. I'm going to give you some numbers. Chris Middleton, who, you know, had history on this show.

Chris Middleton, 29 points. Actually, no. What's concerning to me, man, is you get the Chris Middleton game. We don't know, and we don't, we don't know what Janus is going to be with this injury. It looked very nasty. Did you see the hyper extension with Janus? Yeah, I thought it tore everything. I thought he tore this.

And to have that level of trauma on your knee, at least what it looked like, and the psychological effect that has, right, because you are thinking, oh, man, I might have torn everything. It's just an hyper extension. You are going to favor that. But now there were times that Janus looked like Janus. Like he took eight into the cup early and just dunked all over him. It was nice. He took him to the cup.

But he only took 11 shots. Can't have that happen. I mean, he had the 17 boards. He had the 20 points. But Janice, the way that team is built up, he has to score 35, 40 points. And then Hope Middleton gets his 29 and 30. And then Hope's through Holiday does his thing. I am concerned about Janus's health.

How do you feel about that? Because if it's honestly the way Janus goes is the way the bucks go, because he is the generational star on that team and a bunch of really, really, really good dudes, not superstars. other superstars, really, really good dudes surrounded by a generational star. If he doesn't go, it's bad. What do you think about his availability? I think Janice is going to be fun. I think Janice said it in his postgame, where he said it in his postgame press conference. It was more of a fatigue thing with him. Like he alluded to not having a rhythm, having not played in a week or so. There was a moment in the game where it looked like he was Olympian after a play.

But for the most part, he looked pretty good. I mean, some of those moves quick to the bucket, big shoulder on DeAndre Aitin. Like those are healthy moves. They didn't look like he was struggling. Now, I don't know. I mean, of course, if he is a shell of himself and he's going to be at the performance level where DeAndre Aten

is going to continue to cancel him out, if not play better than him, like, yeah, Milwaukee's in trouble. Because, you know, Chris Middleton is going to do Chris Middleton things where he'll have really good games and then he'll probably have somewhere he's off. And Drew Holiday just, you know, he just hasn't been consistent in the playoffs.

I love Drew Holiday. I'm a fan of his game. But he doesn't look like he's super comfortable out there offensively. You know what I mean? Like, that's just the best way I can put it. So if Janice isn't going to be great, then, yeah, that changes what I think that series turns into from a length standpoint. I'm curious to see also what you saw defensively from Milwaukee because after a certain while, they were just attacking Brooke Lopez in the pick and roll.

They just said, fuck all sets that we're going to do. Our only set is we are going to get Brooke Lopez on an island and we are going to go to the cup on him or we are going to shoot threes on him. You know, Chris Paul was, you know, Chris Paul is a master in the pick and roll. And he was doing just that. He got it to the lane and he also got a four point play with the, I think it was a, was it a flagrant foul that he got down there? When he stepped into. That's a bullshit. We'll talk about that in this.

second because I know you have some thoughts on that. But what did you see defensively from Milwaukee with that with the Brooke Lopez pick and roll? And what can they do to counteract that? Is it just going small or is it just getting another defender when on an island? What do you do? I thought that, you know, Milwaukee obviously came out with the switch mentality. First of all, let's go back. Phoenix was the hungrier team in that game. Sometimes it boils down to like who wants it more. It meant more to Phoenix last night than it did to Milwaukee. Milwaukee's had a history of doing this in the playoffs. I've talked about this coming out and looking like they're not fully grasping the gravity of the situation they're in. Phoenix got every loose ball. They got every 50-50 ball.

Like those were, those are wins as they accumulate over the course of the game. So Phoenix was more locked in. They were flying around. It meant more to them than Milwaukee. Milwaukee wanted to switch pick and roll early. they put PJ on Chris Paul. So the switch to DeAndre Aiton had a body on him, right? A big body. You gave possibly one of the best of all time in high ball screens. The same look for an entire half of basketball. I don't care that it was a switch, right?

Because for a while, the switch was productive. Like for a while, Chris Paul wasn't cooking. The switch was good. You're playing a numbers game, right? what I do know about great players, Logan, is if you give Kobe Bryant the exact same look every possession, it's only going to, it's a matter of time before he figures it out, right?

But also for them to like, for them to keep using that look against Chris Paul on a pick and roll when he's one of the best pick and roll players we've ever seen. Well, but here's the danger of what they switched to in the second half. What they switched to in the second half was the old drop coverage that I, that I screamed to. hates that you disdain. Because now Chris Paul doesn't,

Chris Paul's going to get 30 in an ISO situation. You understand what I'm saying? He's going to get 30 because he's going to cook Brooke Lopez. That's what he did in the third quarter. That's all he did in the third quarter. Well, what happened in the third, yes. But then what started to happen when they started mixing drop coverages and stuff like that was now he's able to kind of facilitate too because it's not just a switch.

So now DeAndre Ait is catching lobs. Like they're able to move the ball around because he's down in the middle of your paint now and he's able to facilitate and get other people eating. I'm a believer in and I've told you this over and over again. I'm getting the ball out of his hands. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Chris Paul's hands.

Chris Paul, it can't be in his hands. Like, so if you are going to bring a ball screen, I'm going to hit it and Mikkel Bridges has been great. Jay Crowder has been great. DeAndre Aidan has been fantastic. Devin Booker is a real one. Oh, everybody. We'll just talk about their whole roster because they,

They've all been fantastic. They have to beat me. I'm not letting him just do that. And that's just, I mean, I believe in that. Chris Paul is one of the best ball handlers that you know is going to take the rock, right? He's one of those guys that has the rock, just like how James Hardin has the rock, just like how one of these dominant ball handlers always have the ball.

But he's one of those guys that, like, he is equally effective scoring just as well as passing. So it is very hard to hold him down, and he makes literally everyone better around him. When you talk about Aiden, who said that's been the best thing for his career. Yeah. You can't, would you almost want Devin Booker to be the primary ball handler if you could do that? If you're the defense, if you're the bucks, what would you want? Who would you want to have the ball in their hands most of the time if they're going to be dribbling up and down the floor?

Devin Booker. I want Devin Booker to have the ball in his hands. And it's not a slight at Devin Booker. Devin Booker's amazing with the ball in his hands. He's going to probably torch my team. But what Chris Paul does, it ties everyone together as well as torch my team. Like he is what, he is a point guard. He is getting that team in a flow, getting them set, orchestrating offense to where

they can expose the mismatch. He is a professional point guard. Devin Booker is a professional combo guard score. Like, if given the opportunity, to take it away from your orchestrator, I'm going to do that. And I'm going to see if Devin Booker and the rest of them can beat us. And I'm not saying that he can't, but I don't want Chris Paul to just wreak havoc. I liked the bucks going small.

I thought they should have tried that a little earlier in the game. Like I thought that's viable. You can switch. You've got a more capable defender on Chris Paul. When Brooke is in the game, I'm going to say it again. Some dude went at me on Instagram about posting and, oh, that's what, bro, if Jay Crowder is going to guard Brooke Lopez, he should touch the ball every time down the court. Remember, um.

Every time. Remember, every time? How many times, Roger? I didn't hear you. Every time. Um, you saw the last two games of the Buck's, uh, Hawk series, right? Where Brooke Lopez was damn near shack and the, just punishing them every single time down the floor. And I, who do you hate seeing?

shoot threes more. Brooke Lopez or Janice, I did a movie. Yonis, because he don't make him. Yonis, because you don't make him. But I understand that the essence of it, yes. They should be playing bully ball. I don't mind Brooke Lopez shooting threes, but I don't want him to shoot five threes a game.

I would like, if he shoots like two tops. That's by design. But he's open, you got to do that, right? So thank you for leading me here. The bucks are just all over the place offensively. Like, they don't know what their identity is. They find something. It vibes for a while.

It looks like they got. got it figured out. And then, you know, like off the cuff just out of nowhere, they flip back to like, I'm going to come down and pull these no past threes in transition, which I get it. But you got to have, you got to have, you know, to your point about him shooting all those threes, it's by design. It's by design.

Like, that's the way they want to play, except if it ain't working and the other team has, has sized down. And you've got this dude who is a really, really good. You see that man's touching around the basket, Brooke Lopez? Yeah. punish that shit, man. It's so funny, man, because what he does it, it's like the OG in the 24-hour fitness

or the LA fitness, bro. He's just like, I'm throwing it. I know exactly my spot. I already know what to do. Oh, I fell a little bit, but it's still going in with this little weak hook shot, but it's going to go in every time, right? And like, it's funny because I am no coach.

I am not anything close. But it looks like, like basketball. ball such a simple game, man, once you put it down to it, right? Like, once you're just, like, really just mono-we, that's why I love watching the playoffs, right? There's no, like, there's not all these dribble weaves, there's not all these, these cute little, these cute little sets. Nah, man, I'm going to see your biggest weakness, and I'm going to exploit it. It's just simple.

It's just going to be a simple thing, right? It's, yes, it's a matchup game. And that's what you saw the sons do. The son said, this is the coverage you're giving us. I've got Chris Paul against Brooke Lopez. I've got Devin Booker against Brooke Lopez. I have Devin Booker against Bobby Portis. The few times that they were able to get a switch

and DeAndre Aiton had someone little in the post, they went to DeAndre Aten. They just looked different because they weren't posting it up all the time, right? But this is what fascinates me about, like, today's viewer of basketball, oh, genius. Like, no one wants to post up. What is the difference between a post-up and that mid-range shot?

that Chris Paul killed y'all with last night or Devin Booker, there's no fucking difference. They found a mismatch. It's basketball, and they exploited it, and the sons were great at that last night. I watched the goal, I obviously covered the Golden State Warriors, and what did the Golden State Warriors known for a Roger?

What are they known for in general? Just like, as a casual fan, what are they known? Shooting the three. Right. They won those titles because KD was the best mid-range shooter in the game. He did that, and when the chips were down, you, when it gets the Rockets, yo, Katie, go get us a bucket

on the elbow right there, please. Please get us a postman. Like, even give us a postman. It's basketball. You can do every one of those things. When you're great at all those things, yes what? You're the greatest team of all time.

But it's like, what I, and this is just, as just someone who's been around the game, not as much as you, but my frustration is, and I want to get your opinion on this, Roger, because obviously you played the game. When it comes to trends in the game,

I hate when they go, like, oh, we're going to like three and D and we're only going to get those types of players. We're just going to get those types of players the whole time. Why can't you just get a whole balanced NBA roster? Why can't you just get, okay, you get a shooter? Okay, we're going to get a big man. One of the biggest things that I liked about when the Lakers got Dwight and they got Javel and they got this robust set of bigs and they put shooters around them.

It was a very balanced team in 1920 Lakers. I really liked watching them play and just have a rail-rounded team. Brasio, why do we have to go to all the time, hey, man, we're just going to go to 3&D because that's where the league is going, right? Why can we just get a balanced team that can play for, they can play in any kind of versatility to play against any style?

It's a good question, a few things probably. Analytics suggest that there's a way to give yourself the best chance to win, analytically speaking, and that is to tow the three-point line and only shoot threes and layups. That's what analytics suggests, right? So you get a bunch of dudes in front offices, and I respect all of the opinions

and their ability to find these numbers and dig them up. But you get pressure from that side of it. I think, and then some GMs and some people putting teams together, you know, we take for granted or we think that everyone has their own independent thought process

and has their own vision, but they all don't. And so you see someone doing it and it becomes a copycat thing, right? Like, okay, that's, that's the blueprint. Let's do it. I mean, I get, I get it to some degree. I just, the game, the game is a simple game when it's boiled, when it's boiled down, right? And if, if you don't overthink it and, and you can attack, you know, the matchups that present themselves out of the action that you're running, you can have success. Now, there are things that you have to, like, you have to defend, like, you know,

What I thought the Suns did brilliantly last night, aside from their offensive, just simplicity, was they really got back in transition and loaded to the ball. They really thwarted Milwaukee's ability to get up and down the court and get those easy buckets in transition. And that's where Janice flourishes. They built a really good wall. They were back. They were loaded. Milwaukee didn't do that.

All of that kind of speaks to your sense of urgency about the moment. And I thought they just were the better team last night. But it doesn't have to be, Logan, where we all build a team like that. It just doesn't. I'm going to, we're going to do a segment after this next break, but I'm going to give a preview of this because you said that the sense of urgency from Chris Paul radiated throughout the Sun's team. You could see it.

You know, like there was this question that was posed. And I'm going to post you on our next segment. But it was basically like, who needs this title more right now? Who is in terms of legacy? And I picked Chris Paul over Janus. It was between Janus and Chris Paul. And the reason why I did that is because this might be Chris Paul's last best chance to win a title. And he played like that last night.

And by extension, everybody else on the team played as such. It's like, yo, bro, I've never been here before. This might be my last time. I need to seal the deal. I did not see that from the bucks. It was like, oh, man, like, we're the bucks. We might be here for the years to come. Like, no, we got Yonis.

He's young. You see that. And you got to. And everybody's going to. the league and you have to seize that moment. And it's a mindset thing because everybody is saucy in the league. Everybody good in the league. But you've got to, that's when the mind comes in of like, yo, you have to seize this moment. And I don't think the bucks did that in game one. I agree with you 100%. I, you know, just watching that game, some of the turnover, there are

amount of turnovers that you pencil into a basketball game, right? Like, used to be the teams that won the turnover battle and had more points in the paint would win games. It was pretty simple. equation, you know what I mean? But like, again, analytics have changed all that. But so do pencil some turnovers in? Some of the lack, lack, is it laxadaisical or lack a desical? I always screw that up. What is it? You know what? You know what? Yes. Yes. So some of those turnovers, right? Were eye opening to me? I'm like, man, damn, Drew Holly, you just turn a shit over and like you're, you're standing there like eyeball and a rector. It was like regular season type turnovers. That was the vibe I was getting from them. Like

they weren't valuing possessions the way you have to value possessions. When you have like 20 turnovers in a game, but you win, like those types of turnovers in the middle of March. Yeah. Absolutely. And so that all that speaks to you not understanding, dog, this is game one of seven games potentially to win a damn championship. Like you have to have every possession matter.

And I, you know, the bucks, they got a little clipper-esque in them where they just, you know, they kind of like go into the, you know, they have to work. themselves into a series. One of those things. I think they could have beaten the Hawks in five or four if they really were just locked in for four games. But this is the thing that they have what the Bucks have is where they just, they kind of just malaise their way into the series.

And it's like, no, bro, we need it right now. Bro, you need a split right now. Game two is tomorrow. You need that split. So this is perfect then, because here's where I was going next. Now, I just talked about all that, how brilliant the suns were and how, you know, bad Milwaukee was at times and how it just looks so great

for the sons to probably win this, right? Let me go into the Milwaukee locker room right now, right? Like if I'm a Milwaukee player. We lost game one. We came here to get a single game. Yeah. That is still possible for us.

So no one hang your head. We're fine. Okay? Yeah. They exposed some things we did defensively tonight. We've now got a game. It was the main of the world. They made a run at the end of the game.

It wasn't like they didn't get blown out. No, here's where I'm going. Like, they exposed some. us. We now have some film. We're going to sit back and watch that. We'll tighten that up. Janice wasn't supposed to play, did play, looked good in doing so, and is only going to get better, right? Yeah. And while we were down 20, we reeled them back in and got within striking distance in the fourth quarter on the road. They were, yeah. Yeah, they didn't get over the hump. But if I'm in that locker room, I'm sitting there saying, we're fine. Hey, we're good. We'll get to, we're leaving here with

the split. And when we leave here with the split, the whole thing. changes. So that's where I would be if I was in their locker room. Yeah. You're right, man. Like I didn't call away with being like, oh, bucks are going to get swept. It's over now. Like, no, it wasn't. They got punched in the mouth, got some jabs in. And, you know, and then it was like, okay, they won that one. Okay, for sure. We'll go see you on Thursday. It's good. What I want to do, though, I'm going to take a quick break. We are going to do a delayed version of our Ringer 2021 NBA

finals entrance survey. We're going to do it right here on the Real Ones Pod up next. And we are back. We're right in the middle between game one and two of the NBA finals. But I wanted to bring the NBA Finals Interest Survey to

the Real Ones podcast. I'm going to ask the Ringer staff did this. Myself, Dan Devine, Paolo. Syrit Sohi and Zach Graham also did it as well. I think Matt Downs or a couple other people did it as well. But I'm going to bring these questions to the fold. The first question is, and I'll start first, what is the most intriguing question heading into this series? Now, my biggest thing was, the biggest question that I saw was, health. Can Yonah stay healthy? Can Chris Paul stay healthy?

That's been the story of this whole season going into the postseason is about all these stars getting healthy. hurt. And we thank goodness with these teams, we have all their superstars intact right now. Now, that's being my biggest question, just not just this postseason, but the toll that this last year and a half has had on this lead. My biggest thing is health. Yonis was able to be healthy through one game. That's great. Everyone's good right now. What do you think is the biggest question going into this series? I was going to say health too, but since you said it, I'll just say ability to adjust adjustments on a coaching staff or from a coaching staff. This one's going to be a chess match.

Again, they've simplified offense. They're finding the mismatches. They've taken a kind of old-school approach to it. What is Mike Boodenhoeser going to do with the pick and roll next game? And then, you know, what is Monty's adjustment for that, right? Like we saw a little bit of zone from both teams in game one. What are we going to do? So who's the better on-the-fly adjustment guy?

So my thing is this, it's going to be interesting on the Buck's perspective about adjustments because we all know that the, we already know the criticism of Mike Boodenhozer. And that is that as adjustment, especially late game adjustments, right? And he's in a peculiar place because he's been having these criticism. It almost seems like he didn't lead his coach's team to the finals, right? It's like, yo, man, if Bud isn't here, like, if one of these things don't write, if such and such didn't get hurt, you know, that Buck's kind of just like took another way into the finals, right, matchups and all these things. And it seems like, you know, if they lose any kind of way, and I'm not reporting, I'm not in Milwaukee,

but it seems just like based on reports that we've seen, yo, man, if Coach Bud gets swept out of the finals, it's, it doesn't look great, right? Is that the word? Is that the word on the street, bro? That's not the official word, but you see, like, every single time, if you look, and this is why I had to stop doing this, if you look at, like, the talking heads, and you look at all, and you listen to everything, and you listen to everything, all the chatter and everything, every time the bucks lose, it's Mike Boonehoser, right? It's that, and it's, and the thing is, is adjustments. Do you think that?

Do you feel like if he doesn't find this, his job is not safe? Because I don't know, man, like, who knows? No, he's good. He is in the finals. They've taken the next logical step that you need to take as a franchise. Winning it would be great. There are questions, and rightfully so, about the way he's handled things in the past and his ability to make adjustments. If he should fall short, though, I have to imagine getting to the finals this year is enough to protect his job. And, you know, I heard him pregame yesterday. I don't know if you heard the way he, addressed the team. And what it said to me with the way he was talking to them was this is a free, play-lose, have-fun type of team. Like he doesn't seem to be a micromanager. And that's okay.

You have to find the balance, though, between allowing them to play free and shoot from the hip and take the one-off wild three or three or four of those and then tightening the reins and saying, all right, no, no, no, the time in place. All right, now we got to strategically execute in these three minutes to seal this deal. Like, he's got to find that balance. But I do think he's safe regardless, Logan.

Okay, so mine is health, yours is adjustments, right? Yeah, that's what we're doing. All right, I tease this in the last segment. Let's get to legacy talk. Legacy talk. Who benefits more for, whose legacy benefits more from a title? Janus or Chris Paul's at this very moment, it's Chris Paul. It's just undeniable.

Chris Paul. Chris Paul with a chip goes down in the, you know, stratospheres of... Who's the best point guard of all time in your eyes? Isaiah Thomas. I say magic. Magic. Magic. Isaiah Thomas. His name was on my mind, but magic, for sure. Okay. You could say magic. Does this put Chris Paul in the top three of all time if he wins a title? Because for me, I think it does. Yeah, but I don't know. That's, that's, it's a little deeper. Can I say my three first? Can I say my three first?

Go ahead. Put them in. My three right now is Magic, Isaiah, and John Stockton. John Stockton never won a title as a leading man. So, right. That is what this does for Chris Ball. It puts him right squarely in those conversations. Yes.

Okay. And Janus, he has, I wrote this. He has at least eight more years at an elite level, God willing. Yeah. At least. He's fine. All right, next question. Who is your biggest X factor going in this finals?

X factors, man. Are we, aside from the three best players on each team, we're saying the three biggest scores on each team? So what I said was I said DeAndre Aden. Okay. I mean, I don't know. Like, it's weird because he's a, he's not a star to me. Like, not yet, at least.

For me, it was what I would equate him to be right now. It's like how Andrew Bynum was on those Lakers. teams, right? Like a really, really, really good center. I don't know necessarily if he can carry a team yet, but he's hell of young. Like, DeAndro Aden is young. He might turn to like a bona fide dude. Like, he is really, really good. I'm not even saying, I'm just saying, oh, yeah, yeah, no, it's fair. So I have him there because just his defense, man, just how he's been playing defensively in this postseason. If he can continue to do that against Janus, honestly, we need to shut the fuck up on his defense.

If he does this and go through when the way he played against Yolk is the way he played and stretches against AD, the way he played in the conference finals, if he can continue this defensive prowess, the sons are going to win a title. I agree with you. I mean, when we did the preview,

and I caught all the slack for, like, saying pretenders, but you remember who our biggest, like, who the most important player was going to be in the run. I think we both said DeAndre Aiton. and he's been fantastic, and that's why they are where they are. But because you said him, I'll go to the Bugs, and I'm going to say it's Drew Holiday. I think, you know, you're going to pencil in what Yonis gets. Chris Middleton is going to, you know, average what he averages.

Some games are going to be, you know, it's an average for a reason. They'll have great games, and then there'll be somewhere he's not, man, they need that third consistent. Like, Brooke does what he does. But True Holiday has the ability to get on top of the cup whenever he wants. He is literally, he can, if you watch him, he gets where he wants to go. He is a 6-4, almost 6-5, super freaky athletic, great defensive player who can get to the rim whenever he wants. He's got to have more of an offensive impact in that game and defensive for that matter. He is the X-Factor for Milwaukee.

Yeah, yeah. The thing with Drew, man, is he's such a good player. And it's, and there was something that we kind of talked about when he got traded to Milwaukee. Really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really good player, not a stop. It's not. I mean, I get, would you agree with that? I would agree.

I mean, well, yeah. Would you say he's a star? Would you say he's a star? Star, I get into like SARS superstar. Like,

he's, he's, he's a big time player. So I would say, I would say this. Paul George is a star. Is he a superstar? I don't know.

Okay. Right. So that's what I'm, that's the criteria. That's fair. I'm saying. So I think you're, yeah,

you're fair. You're on point. Superstar is reserved for like LeBron's and and Kevin Duran, stuff Curry. that's this like superstar. Gotcha. And there's a really, really, really, really good player,

All-Star after that. There you go. I think Drew Holiday is like, you know, on the verge, you could be an all-star one of these years. You know, I can see that. But I think the problem is when you have like, like really, really, really, really good players, just how good the league is surrounding the generational star.

You're going to have games like this where you're like, dude, why didn't you play well? You know, you can't pencil in Drew Holiday to give you 23 and 11 all the time, right? You can't pencil that in. And so the problem you have with that is some games are just going to be like curious. Like, damn, where's he at? We need a guy like that. And the same thing with Chris Middleton.

They're the same. I think they have the same amount. They're at the same level in terms of skill. And I think that's the problem that you send yourself with is when you have really, really good players. And I think that Drew is going to bounce back. I think he's going to have a really good game too. But you're going to have, what, forever one of those 39 point games you see in a postseason,

you're going to have some of those where it's like 12 and you're going to go six of whatever, you know? And I think Drew will be fine, but that's just, that's, that's what happens when you roll the dice of like Milwaukee did to get a player, a player like that. And it sounds like I'm hating, but I'm not. I think he's a really good player. I just don't think he's a star or superstar. Well, look, man, I, again, I think Drew Holiday is fully capable. I think that stylistically and maybe opportunistically is a better way to put it. he struggles there.

There's only so many possessions and only so many, you know, opportunities that you have offensively. And when Janice and Chris Middleton are doing what they're doing, you know, I think he's a little lost there offensively if I'm keeping it a buck.

I don't think you see the best of him offensively. I don't think it's necessarily all on the bucks and I don't think it's necessarily all on him. Like they just haven't figured it out. And they have to figure it out, Logan, because he has to be more productive. constructive consistently. Do you think, you know, because they traded for Drew Holiday in large part to appease

Janus, because that was a guy that Janice liked. Do you think he is stylistically a fit for this team, just stylistically. And I mean, obviously, because being stylistically a fit doesn't mean you're not going to be a good team. If you guys don't have pieces that fit, you can still be a good team. Like the Sixers, for instance, who have Ben Simmons and Joel and B., really good team, but we all knew that that wasn't a fit stylistically. Not ideal.

He's not ideal. He's not ideal because he's not a spot-up shooter. And when Janus is going to be on the ball as much as he is and Chris Middleton, you need somebody that compliments them. That means they shoot. They catch and shoot. Now, I think, again, like I think he's fantastic. But when you're talking about an ideal fit, the answer is no.

I don't. It's not. I put some money on that say that I think Drew Holiday will have a great. great game too. I hope you're right. And he's a great dude. Like he's a great dude. Yo, did you see his speech at the end of the, um, the end of the Western, the Eastern Conference finals was like, it was just like so wholesome and just like so like, like, I feel you, bro. I'm really happy for you to get there. I pull for Drew. I'm telling you, like there are guys I get on here and just say for the shits of it. I'm a fan. Like, I'm a fucking

fan. You know what I'm saying? So I hope he figures out, but they need him to, to insert himself. Even if it means, even if it means, Logan, that you go off like, hey man, I might have to be a little selfish. Not for an entire game, but I might have to be a little selfish early so I can catch a rhythm so I can be a part of this because that's what's best for our team. Like, he may have to do that. I think they'll be fine.

Next question. What's your favorite off-the-court storyline? Roger. Favorite off-the-court storyline? Yeah. I don't know. Go ahead. I got real philosophical in my shit.

Go ahead. I know these are two older teams. but I just like having teams that don't necessarily go to the finals every single year or that are in the finals, man. I mean, the last day, both teams came in in 68, right? But when we think about the Phoenix Suns, it's the, it's your team, the seven seconds or less teams, or it's like it's the other 93 team that went to the finals, right? And then, but I'm glad that there's a new generation of fans that can see the Suns being really good. Right? They can see it.

The Sun's being a contender. Like, when you think about the bucks in recent memory, what do you think about? You think about, I guess, the nostalgia of, like, you don't think about Kareem and the 70s balling with Oscar Robertson. You don't think about that. You don't think about Sidney Moncrief, Terry Cummings. Who was it? Paul Presi, Sigma. Those were good teams, bro.

Good teams. Good teams. I'm just saying, I'm just saying those teams don't come up. You know what I mean? Correct. Correct. We think about the buck. I'd make an argument that the Ray Allen led bucks. Big dog.

Big dog. Those teams have a bit more nostalgia than those 70s teams. That's all I'm saying. So I'm happy to see two teams in this generation. I also pulled some shit out my ass. I did. I did with that one. I did.

And I wrote that down and I don't care. But I think it's an interesting thing. What do you think about the storyline right now? Well done. Well done. So off the court storylines. Maybe I'll piggyback a little bit, but I'll take it a different direction.

I think both of these teams, I appreciate, and it's not taking anything away from guys who don't subscribe to this philosophy. I appreciate that they both had stars that at one time or another have been pressured outwardly or from the outside media and from peers to leave where they're at.

Right? To get out of there and give themselves a better chance to win a chip, and they declined to put the pressure on the organization to do that. They stuck with franchises that were kind of trying to figure it out and build around them. A lot of homegrown talent on both of those teams.

Yeah, sure, you go out and you find a piece here and there. And obviously, Chris Paul's a huge piece. Drew Holiday, we just touched on. It's a huge piece. Every team does that. But for the most part, they're kind of homegrown. You know what I mean? And these teams have kind of suffered through what you were talking about to get where

they are. And I can appreciate that. Yeah, for sure, man. All right, last question. Who wins this series and in how many games? We did this before. I said sons and six. Are you staying, are you around that?

Or what do you think? Yeah, I think it's sons in six or seven. Okay. We didn't touch on this, but I tweeted it last night. You can't deny it. You're on Twitter lately. I've been on Twitter. There's just you can't deny this.

Even as a son's fan, I can't deny this. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. Those refs. Those refs last night. I mean, Jesus Christ. Are they not real ones of the week? No, they are if you're a Phoenix fan, and that's great. Because I've been on the flip side of that is a Phoenix.

son where I'm like, bro, we just ain't going to get no damn calls, nothing. And so I think it's great. But I think, you know, as you, as, as, as refs go to different buildings and stuff, they are human beings. Like, the environment can maybe change the way it's, it's blown. I think this is going to be a seesaw battle, even if Milwaukee does not win game two. I think it's going to be a seesaw battle. I think the sun's win it in the end. Somebody, uh, Paulo said, um, the biggest X Factor in the finals. No, this was, this was, um, this was Matt Dollinger. He said the biggest X Factor in the finals is Scott Foster. I figured you'd like that.

I'd love it. And the only reason I can't say is because people don't want to keep coming on here, hearing me talking about them damn rasbro. But I was sitting there last night like, is anyone else watching this shit? Like, is anyone watching? No one, I mean, if you're, no one's seeing this? I have a question. Now, do you want to go to the Sun's Parade or not?

Because it doesn't seem like you want to go to the Sun's Parade. Why not? Yeah, I'm down. Yeah, I want to go. Okay. I don't know. Okay. You're going up against what could happen.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't get me wrong. Hashtag, hashtag, get Roger to Scottsdale. Hashtag, get Roger to the parade. Hashtag, get Roger to Phoenix. We were screwed by those calls and suspensions and all of that. So, again, hey, bro, if you're the sons, I ain't worried about that. I'm simply saying, watching it, not being a participant in it,

I mean, when you're talking about D. Books got eight free throws and the whole Milwaukee Bucks team, who is attacking the cup has four? That's not equitable, my dude. Like, that's, I watch that game. The sons were fouling, too. Right? I mean, they were.

Come on, man. They were. They were. They were. All right. Let's not get any more trouble. Let's get to ruin the week before we get out of here, man. Rewin of the week.

I'm going to go first. You know what? I'm going to go with Langston Galloway, who has made his own sneaker line right before the NBA finals, along with his wife, called Ethics. So, you know, shout out black businesses. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go to Langston Galloway, the Phoenix Suns. Who do you got, Roger for real under the week? Do you know what I'm going to go, man? I'm going to go Aeron Rogers. Let go A.A.A.A. Ron does not give two cents about what's going on in Green Bay. A.A.A. Ron showed up. him and Bryson D. Shambo and just laid wood to Phil Mickelson and the goat Tom Brady,

who is fantastic, by the way, I'm a relatively new Tom Brady fan. I've said this before. I know, isn't it weird? Yeah, I've said it before. I hated everything that was Patriots, and I thought that I hated Tom Brady because he was a Patriot. Come to find out, I fucking love Tom Brady. I just don't like the Patriots. I'm going to be real with you. It's a complicated thing that I have with.

And I know that we just gave a ruin of the week to someone else, and shout out to that person. but I'm going to go I just want to talk about we can talk about Brady before we get out here I remember the first I hated Brady like really hated Brady

because I was a Raiders fan still I'm an Oakland Raiders fan right and I remember the Tuck Rule game and a week or two later he went to a Warriors game and they said welcome Tom Brady and he got booed he got I was right there

when I was they got one of the jumpers so you got booed and booed and boo I don't think he's ever been to a warrior game since and but he wins and he has this arrogance to him that I just like that I just like I like I get it bro I respect the air like you know when someone's so arrogant that you're just like okay all right all right yeah all right like what are you gonna do I mean I still it's like I still it's like I still don't like you but it's like don't make me like you right now it's like really just don't make me like you right now stop doing this stop it well that's for you I like him I think You know, the person who you are seeing now, like the personality that, and maybe it was, you know, New England that just was so stifling to your own personal identity that he couldn't be this dude or, you know, whatever the reason. The new, the new time, Brady, I'm all the way in, dog.

Like, I am a Tampa Bay fan. I don't even like where this is headed, man. I don't even like this at all because even like younger me is just like pissed off. I know. I hear you. I don't even like this. But anyway, my real one was Aaron Rogers, bro. Did you see his golf game yesterday?

Yeah. I mean, he's no tour pro. He's no, he's no Steph Curry, but, you know, he held it down. Also, I just love, it's funny because, like, you play golf and, you know, I've been around in green a little bit. You know, golfers talk the most shit I have ever heard in my life. You guys, you guys talk, it's, like Aaron Rogers was talking shit to Phil Mickelson. Phil Mickelson was jabbing back. It's great.

It's beautiful. It was fantastic. Let's another edition of Real Ones. Check us out on every Monday. and Thursdays. We're doing a special edition on Wednesday. This is just how it went. We're still two days a week.

It was the holiday last time. We didn't do Mondays. We'll be back next Monday. You know, I may or may not be in Wisconsin. So, you know, just may or may not be. I don't know yet. I don't even know. Wait, did I even say that?

The message just just got destroyed. Anyway, make sure you guys check out real ones, Mondays and Thursdays. Make sure you check out ringer NBA on all social feeds. Make sure you check out group chat. Make sure you check out the mismatch. Make sure you check out the answer. Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook with Who, Roger Bell.

Town legend, Daniel Smith. Make sure you check out R2C2 with who, Roger Bell. Damn, dog. C.C. Sabathia. I know it is something clown. Cresside Clown. The Creside Clown. Cres.

Shout out to the Cress. Shout out to Miller's Bill. Shout out to the whole beam. I see you. Also, shout out to Ringer Music Show. Shout out to all the podcasts, man. I give you guys every in Rehaverse. We will see you guys on Monday.

Holla!