The Ringer NBA Show - The 2023-24 NBA Season Entrance Survey | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 22, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by discussing Steven Adams’s season-ending knee injury and what it means for the Grizzlies going forward (3:05). Then, the guys dive into their entrance survey for the upcoming season and hypothesize who will be the next star to be traded (12:31), highlight their favorite league pass teams (20:43), and give their season award predictions and Finals picks (1:03:44). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jack Sanders Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer, and for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment, a guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings, and with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

First official edition of Weekend Group Chat. I am Justin Barrier. Joining me, Rob Mahoney, Big Was. Gentlemen, we are here on the precipice of a new NBA season. It's technically what, like NBA Eve Eve, like two days out from the big shebang. Wise, how are you feeling? Are the juices flowing already? I'm good, man.

It's Sunday was not able to take in the body and blood of the Lamb of God. I'm a last Catholic, Justin. but I suspect that there's going to be a decent amount of Victor Wembenyama talk on this pod. So the next best thing. Did not expect so much body and blood and Victor Webbenyama up top. But look, it's a new day. Our first official Sunday show for group chat, it's feeling a little different this morning. You know, the vibe, we're a little more casual.

It's got kind of a brunchy air. You know, maybe a boozy brunch for us, but I like where we're going. Yeah, no. I'm tough with podcasting on different days and even different times because I feel like an athlete these days where my body is attuned to peak at a certain time a day and a certain time of the week. And so like if I'm a little like not as hilarious as usual, yeah. Yeah, we need to pull back the curtain a little bit at 10 a.m. on a Wednesday morning. I do not like to get up especially on a weekend. So this is tough of me. But I'm doing it for you, the fans.

Love it. I'm sure they appreciate it. Yeah, I've never met someone so protective of their morning hours as Justin Barrier. Have I taken a few sips of the Celsius this morning? No free ads? Maybe. But you know, you gotta do what you gotta do. But if you missed the Power Rankings podcast, if you didn't check in on any of the eight hours of content that we did, go ahead and do that. But this is our first of many weekend episodes. We're going to be coming to you on Wednesday, as we typically did, but also Sunday morning, early afternoon, P.T. So after you've seen your favorite

NFL team get their head bashed. And you can go and jump back into the NBA and have some fun. Today, we are going to do the 2023-24 MBA entrance survey, a couple other questions that we wanted to get on the books before the game start on Tuesday. First, a little bit of breaking news. Unfortunately, Stephen Adams is out for the regular season with a right-neutral. knee surgery. It seems like the PCL is the issue there, although it was oddly word, particularly the PCL was the news coming down from ESPN. Obviously, huge blow, Rob, particularly because Brendan Clark is also out with an Achilles tear. And so where do the Grizzlies go from here? Is it Xavier Tillman again? I think by default, you know, in the tune up action we've seen from

the Grizzlies so far, where they've played like more or less their real rotation, it's been Tillman and Jackson exclusively playing the center minutes. The issue without Clark is like they were already looking at a lot of Santiago Aldama and Jake Laravia filling minutes at the four. Like their front court, it's just going to be stretched so thin without Adams coming back. Not to mention the fact that we've kind of already seen this rhythm with Adams before. The last time he tried to ramp up from any injury, he got shut down again because there was some swelling.

The fact that they were ramping him up again here in camp and taking it so slow and so conservatively, and yet he still ended up with a season-ending surgery. A dire situation, to say the least, for the grizzlies. They need him. They were dramatically better with him on the floor last season. They don't have easy means to replace him. And here they are. They're probably going to go into the season with what they've got,

but I wouldn't be surprised at all if we see the Grizzlies a month or two in scrounging for backup centers just to get another body for the rotation. Yeah, it's so crazy that we often talk of the center in terms of this. endangered species cooked, irrelevant, doesn't matter. Yet the Grizzlies lose Stephen Adams, and we all understand that, like, they can't replace them. It's at once a position that, you know, people have felt like the league is passed by, but also indispensable.

You can't play in this league without an anchor on defense. And the stuff that he does offensively has started as far as freeing guys up with those bone-crushing screens, like you said, it's super indispensable for this team. But again, you know, that's for the young guys to step up and do what they got to do, particularly Jaron Jackson Jr., who, you know, I think last year took a huge step on defense where he made himself, you know, a top five caliber type of defender in the league, but he's got to do more specifically, which has always been the case for him, filing a hell out of people.

So, you know, we'll see if he, we'll see if he, we'll see if he. if he has it in him to be better at that this year. Well, and when you have Jackson, it makes it the rare case where losing Stephen Adams, it really hurts you offensively. And it is the screens, but really Stephen Adams is the best offensive rebounder in the NBA. And you can throw anything up at the backboard.

He's going to clean it up, especially when you're staring down a season where you're starting the first 25 games without your best offensive player, or at least the driving force of your offense, you would really want that kind of cleanup act out there. You really want those second chance opportunities. And so plugging in Jackson at the five is going to work just fine most nights.

I'm worried about the other nights where Jaron Jackson and Xavier Tullman both missed like 20 games last season. What the hell do the Grizzlies do if either of those guys has a significant injury again? They're going to be in pretty deep water pretty quickly. Yeah, we're not far away from Desmond Bain and his giant muscles playing center for a couple of minutes. It's plausible? Yeah. Yeah, John Moran also out for 25 games. the first 25 games, man, it just seems like the Grizzlies are kind of star crossed this season,

which is disappointing because definitely one of the most fun young teams we have. If you want to hear more Grizzlies talk, I don't know if we'll get to them again. This episode, we talked about them at length. I want to say part three, part four? One of them. We just calling it part two A and all that. Remember, we abandoned the A and B system very quickly. Yeah, it was funny at the time, but now it's just really confusing. My bad. All right. On that note, let's transition to the entrance survey.

First question on the docket, a really serious, really important one going into the season, which is who's the first teammate to take a swing at Jordan Poole? And now, was, if you've been watching in the preseason, it seems like we've already gotten a little preview of what's to come here because Poole and Deniavda were clashing, to say the least. but who's on the top of your list here if we're taking fan dual odds? It's funny because everybody understands that Jordan Poole is going to have the ultimate green light on a team that's pretty much starved for scoring and offensive punch. Like that's going to be his role. And I'm looking up and down the roster.

Asides from Kyle Kuzma, there's nobody on the team that could say they deserve quote unquote touches. Right. And the person that I could come up with was the rookie. you know, Bilal Kulibali, because he plays a very similar position to Jordan Poole. And when he's on the floor with him, I'm pretty sure he's not going to touch the ball. And so even though he's a rookie, he might justifiably feel like, hey, I'm a guy who's a creator, a wing kind of player. Give me the damn ball. Please, for the love of God, Justin Poole.

Jordan Poole, excuse me. Justin does have Jordan Poole. energy though, honestly. At least to take a swing at him sort of vibe here, yeah. Absolutely so. But can we talk about that Denny Avdia clip? Because if for the people who have not seen it,

on one side of the floor, Jordan Poole is taking just a very dumb stepback three. Very, very classic empowered Jordan Poole kind of shot. On the other side of the floor, Deni Avdia is standing with his hands straight up, calling for the ball,

desperate, pleading for the ball. And when he doesn't get it, and it should be no, Jordan Poole hits this shot. It's a crazy shot, but he does hit it. And then Denny Avdia, like, hangs his head and full on, like, Charlie Brown walks back down the floor, despondent. Well, have you seen the second clip? What's the second clip? Which is Poole and Avdia seen... Oh, in the huddle.

Like, yelling at each other or just, like, talking fiercely at each other in the huddle. And Poole giving him the biggest stink eye I have ever seen in my life. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? And then it seemed like it was fine. But good Lord. I will say, Poole was in the midst of a. Yeah. That's what I was going to say.

Like, that three that he drained gave him 27 points at halftime. Yeah. In fairness to Jordan Poole, he was, he had it going. He had, he was cooking. Obviously, this isn't the most pro Jordan Poole pod in existence. I'll be the first to admit that. But he was doing his thing. And it's the preseason.

He had 41. Yeah. And it's Denny Obdia. Like, let's be totally honest about what's happening here. And on the one hand, I get it. If you are Deni Avdia, you need exactly those kinds of shots to basically turn your career around. And when no one's passing to you to shoot threes and you don't get the opportunity to show that maybe I'm better than a 30% three point shooter, like that's painful. On the other hand, like, relax.

You know, just relax. It's just really early. for this to be happening. It's so early. It's very early. But I do think this highlights the kind of player that will want to punch Jordan Pool at some point of the season. And for me, you know, Kyle Kuzma, he knows what the game is.

He's going to get his one way or another. I'm not worried about him. The Daniel Gafford, Taj Gibson types, like they are not used to having the ball anyway. They know what their role is as bigs. It's the low usage wing guys. It's Landry Shamit standing wide open in the corner on the weak side as pool like airballs a shot. He's going to lead the league in claps. Well, if he doesn't, Corey Kispert might.

There's going to go like eight, eight possessions in a row. Corey Kisper doesn't touch the ball. Dailon Wright is going to have a full on existential crisis in the second quarter of a game against the Pistons. And I'm going to understand it. So not the easiest job in the world playing with Jordan Poole. Yes, he has 27 points by halftime in some games. the next game he goes one for 15 from the field and it really is going to be that kind of season for him.

Can I just say how much I appreciate you guys for taking this question so seriously that Rob had multiple answers to this question? Layers. That's what we do here. Yeah, I guess I'll say Taj Gibson just as someone who's like a veteran on the roster

who might be more miffed about this than usual. But I will just say like as disheartening it probably was. Still being in the league is crazy, by the way. He's like 45. I'm pretty sure. It's crazy. Pool had 41 points, as I mentioned, that night.

Two nights later, against the Toronto Raptors to close the preseason, seven points, one for 15. The one for 15 is just, it was horrendous. Strap. Horrendous. But this is why you need Todd's the Gibson. Like, if you're going to go on a season-long field trip with Jordan Poole, like, bring the chaperone. Yeah, we need some adults. All right.

Question number two, mostly out of posterity, because here we are four months later and James Harden, still a sixer. Not much is really different. So I have two parts of this question. The second part will depend on the first, which is which team is James Harden on at the end of the season. Rob? It's the Clippers. Yeah. This is what happens when you lock yourself in a room with one exit. I feel like it's a matter of time before we kind of get there. But I guess, Crazier things have happened than a mystery suitor jumping in the race. I just personally would be surprised at this point if he's back in Philadelphia in any meaningful capacity

or really on any team that isn't the Clippers because who else wants to sign up for this when he has shown what he's willing to do if he's on a roster he does not want to be on. So to me it has to be the Clippers. One, if you're paying attention to the reports,

the distance is like whether or not they're going to throw in Terence, man. Like, I feel like eventually that's going to happen. And two, I feel confident that Steve Ballmer will pay him. That's the main thing that matters here is that he's going to, the team, the team not only wants him, but they'll be willing to fork up some change to keep them around.

And so the incentives seem to be lining up on both sides for that to happen for James Hardin. Yeah. I want to talk about the Clippers later. but I actually priced in this that we were all going to say the Clippers which leads me to my 2B which is once we all say the Clippers who's the next star

who will be traded this season. It feels like Pascal. Yeah. I just feel like we're headed for a January low return rental trade where some contender you know the field is going to be wide open enough that a contender is going to talk themselves into

a couple months of Pascal being enough to give up, you know, a couple picks, maybe one interesting young player, nothing like what you... Do the Raptors do that? I think they're going to be staring down the deadline and the future where Pascal is not really a part of their plans and being like, okay, I guess we'll take what we can get. No, I guess I meant do the Raptors do that, considering their history of not doing that. Oh, I see what you're saying. They've for no reason whatsoever decided not to do this exact thing.

with the last two guys who mattered on this team, right? Where this situation came up where it's like, they're headed to free agency. They clearly could just leave. There's nothing keeping them here for real. Maybe you might want to try to get something for them from a team that's trying to win immediately, and they just didn't do it.

But I do think Pascal is the most likely person on this list. If we go down the list that Justin so nicely put together for us, Donovan Mitchell, I don't think that's a thing that happens this season. Maybe in the summer, depending on how this season... You can feel the clock ticking, though, on the whole cast situation. 100%. And maybe this summer, depending on how they fare in the playoffs, that might be something they visit. Kauai and Paul George, I think there's zero chance of that happening,

specifically because they got to open that new arena next year. And they owe picks in the future. They can't just do a tear down. Like they owe people a bunch of lot of, they owe people a bunch of unprotected picks out until like 2026. And so this is not a tear down option for these guys. Embed, of course, we know Darrell Morey's going to take that to the buzzer because that's what he does.

So M.B., to me, that's out of the question. And Carl Towns, I think the Bulls are going to be good. Too good for this, I think. I think the Bulls have top four seed potential. You know, I think the wolves are going to surprise people with how well they play this year finally. And so, yeah, Pascal just seems like the team is going nowhere. And he's got a contract that's up. And he's really good.

So it's all like obvious what they should be trying to do. There isn't really an obvious candidate on this list here or throughout the league. So it probably takes something tragic or just a real big, just like surprise result happening throughout the season. which might actually lead to Hardin making his way to the Clippers or to another team. I would say the one that I'm most curious about might be the Kauai and Paul George situations, just because both of them are free agents. And so independent of the team's results in their own individual production, I do wonder if there could be a potential clash over extension negotiations.

You're hearing a lot of, in the rumor mill, Paul George extension, not really hearing a ton about Kauai. and so like I can see that one the bottom just completely falling off if the hardened trade doesn't happen if all of a sudden like maybe Kauai or PG gets hurts again and they're looking at a pretty dark hole as their future can I throw like just one wild idea out there that I don't think is going to happen but I think it's really interesting to think about I'm shaping it the bitch what you got Robert would you trade Kauai remember he is on an expiring contract right now to the Lakers for Austin Reeves and other players.

What are we doing? I'm kind of serious here, though. If you're the clippers, you're like thinking, oh, younger player, I'm not taking a step back, but I'm definitely building toward the future. You're taking a step back by trading Kauai Leonard for Austin Reeves. You're taking a major step back, and you're also turning the Lakers into

something that could border on special? I just know. The incentives don't like. Like the hate for the Lakers amongst Clippers, management and brain, like, it's real. It's not a fake thing.

Like, they don't fuck with those people at all because of the treatment and, you know, everything. All the animosity, it's justified, honestly. And again, popular as Austin Reeves is you really going to open your brand new shiny

trillion dollar arena with Austin Reeves on the marquee that's crazy he's putting rigor on the map or whatever the hell those shoes are that he's wearing you want people in the door you get him on your roster people at home can't see Rob's face right now

he is utterly disgusting by his chatter. The life has left my body. Why are you the way you are, Justin? I wish I knew, man. But you know what, Justin? But guess what, though? If it was Paul George, I'd be like,

hmm, because he was actually on the trading block this summer. They sniffed around on what they might could get back for Paul George. Obviously, they didn't like what they, the responses they got back. But Paul George, I think, is a more likely trade candidate just because they tried to trade them very recently. So we'll see. I just don't think we're going to get any of this soft reboot stuff from the Clippers at all. If they're going to trade one of those guys, it is for a day one walk in the door

all-star level player. And that's really the only thing that's worth your time. With this era to make a pivot. Hold on. That doesn't describe Austin Reeves. Day one. All-Star player. This is the problem.

It's like you're pitting me in the corner opposite of it. very good NBA player just by saying that he is literally the greatest player in the NBA. It might be. I'm telling you, Clay Travis can't stand Rob Maroney. I swear God, bro. I'm happy to be opposite Claytrap. All right. Well, let's pivot off of Trade Fantasyland.

Number three, who is number one on your league pass dial? I really had to restrain myself here. I wrote down five teams. So, um, was why don't you go first? My two teams, and then, you know, I made myself not allowed to pick, like, top four teams from each conference because, you know, that's just not that fun to me. The Rockets, because they got a bunch of young guys that I'm very interested in seeing how they perform, right? Thompson, really excited to see him. Of course, Jalen Green, like, I'm still a fan of his.

I want to see where he could take it this year. And, you know, I just like that they're. have adults there now too. And I like that. E. May is the type of person that would curse you out, try to hold you accountable. And so I want to see how that looks for this young, athletic, exciting team. And another team, of course, I don't even need to say, it's the Pacers. Like, I'm going to be watching every single Pacer game this year. And I know Rob is, too. Oh, yeah. I just love the mix of talent that they have. I like how it fits together, too. And so, yeah, Paces is going to be an honorable mention.

We mentioned them already, but I think the wolves are going to be really good this year. So I'll be watching them early on to see how that coalesces. This is the thing, though, is you could list like nine teams as being League Pass favorites. It really is that kind of season. And I know. Especially in October, Rob. Hope does spring eternal. And some of that is like you need to get on some of these teams while Hope springs eternal,

while it's October, November, you know. I think the Pelicans are case in point. History has taught us to enjoy Zion season while it lasts, and I am going to take every opportunity to do that. Plus, we've just seen so little of that team. There's so many situations like that, of course, that for whatever reason, injuries, newly assembled, like we haven't had a chance to fully see Engage yet.

New Orleans is at the top of that list for me of just like experiments. I want to see come to fruition, have a significant sample enough to actually know what the hell is going on. But also, if we're being totally honest, part of the league pass appeal for me is at the end of the night like what is your comfort watch team that's really gonna kind of tuck you into bed

and for me that has been the Sacramento Kings who have become like in lives past or on some nights you just like throw on the show you know very well and you've already seen all the way through a couple times or whatever to kind of wind down your night for me it's fast break Kings basketball baby

I just like I love watching that team play I love the consistency of honestly the regular season effort. Like there are not a lot of teams that you can just bank on every night. They're going to show up and play hard. They absolutely do and they run it down teams throats. It's everything I want in a league pass team to be honest. So shout out to Sacramento. Hopefully they bring that same energy this year.

Those are all really good ones. I would add the Blazers to that list of late night just after dark teams, especially because Anthony Simons, I think, only plays well when he's scoring 51. just in making nine threes on a random Thursday night just in November. And so those games are going to be exciting. It's going to be incredible. I have the thunder with a bullet. Of course.

It's almost too obvious. Yeah. The thunder and the spurs. What a basic ass pick, Justin. Everybody's going to be on that. The thunder and the spurs, everybody's going to be watching those games. And so kind of on a similar vein, the spurs, just watching literally everything that Victor Webben, Yama does.

every preseason game has already been viewing. The nutmeg has been floating through all the timelines since it happened. He basically looks like a shooting guard out there most of the time. And then he's just like surprising guys from like the restrictive circle getting out and contesting shots or blocking them on the perimeter. It's just like, the stuff that he does

is just so unbelievable. I've never seen it before. And I don't know if it's ever going to get tired for me. You know what is tired, though? Justin's obsession with the goddamn Brooklyn Nets. I don't understand this man's love of that team. I don't understand it. What do you love about this team, Justin? Please explain it to me.

I also wrote the Nets down. One, I just think that they're a fun young team. They just have all of these wings. You expect that they're going to be ripping and running up the court. And also, like, I know you was, aren't a big fan of the Ben Simmons revival. You're a pessimist. But like, I just want to see it happen.

Like, I'm just, okay. I'm even interested in it as a rubbernecker sort of. Like, can this guy play still? He looks athletic during the preseason. And like, I'm not so sure that the turnaround fadeaway hooks are really going to translate to regular season NBA basketball. But I want to see it happen. I want to see him try it.

So, yeah. Yeah, the nets are definitely on my list as well. I want to see him try it, the Ben Simmons story. It's better than I want to see him sulk in designer clothing on the sidelines. Yeah, that's fair. Terrible shades. Yeah. All right.

Question number four, which team will be the biggest surprise? And so now this is a positive. So, Rob, who will be your positive surprise from a team perspective this year? We've talked about them some already, but I think it's the wolves. And a lot of that is the West is really, really deep. But there are a lot of teams with implosives. potential or just the capacity to really underwhelm based on their personnel. We're probably going to talk about a lot of those teams coming up on our next prompt,

but the wolves to me are the natural beneficiaries of that, of this unstable field in the West because they're going to have a solid defense, they have a veteran core, they have a really creative offensive coach, they're going to have hopefully a full season with their guys healthy again. I don't think Minnesota is going to change the world or anything, but I do think that they're going to be so consistently solid, they're going to wind up in the middle of the standings for a lot of the season. Yeah, for me, I think the team that will surprise people and how well they play is the Sixers, is that as big of a mess as it is,

the splashy offseason moves at the top of the conference from Boston in Milwaukee. The Sixers have become a kind of afterthought in the mix of the East, but they're still a really super talented, team with or without James Harden. And when they execute a trade for him, they're going to get some talent back and they're going to be really good. And I think guys like Maxia

are going to take a step in the right direction. And yeah, like, don't be surprised if they're at the top of the east or very close to it for to start the season out. I think they're going to have something to prove and they're going to be really good. I think, you know, obviously it's just nasty what's happening there.

between management and James Hardin. But despite that, this is one of the more talent laid in rosters in the East. And I think they'll be better than people are expecting. Well, especially when we've seen Milwaukee, for example, things are not quite as seamless as you would hope between Dame and Yonnas so far. Like, there's still a lot of Yonis ball handling happening. There's not quite like the distillation into those very clean roles. If Milwaukee does start slowly, there's absolutely like an opening at the top of the east for a team like Philadelphia to do. jump on it. If Joel comes out of the gate looking

really strong yet again, if some of these guys who are kind of on the fringes of the rotation, pop, you know, Jaden Springer or Danny Green coming in there and giving them good minutes, you know, guys, you might not have expected at the beginning of the summer or like even in the later stages of free agency once the roster started to come together, if enough of those guys hit, they could be a really solid regular season team all year long. Yeah, you can do way worse than a showcase for

Tyrese Maxie, one of the most exhilarating electric young scores in the league. So yeah, I think that's a really good pick, Wads. So I have three teams down going from least surprising to surprising. Number one was the wolves. Number two, I have the Nets. If only because I could see the Ben Simmons showcase almost prompting the Nets to then go out and get a star. The good thing about Ben Simmons in his position is he's almost like the placeholder,

if this does not work, if he can't get to all-MBA status again, to show some other star, in the league, some offensive engine, Donovan Mitchell, whomever, like we actually have the optimal context for you. We have all of these three and D guys. We have McKill Bridges who at worst at this point seems like he could be an optimal number two who could also guard the best player on the other end. And so like I could see them and they do not have their own picks going forward. So there's no reason for them to get worse.

So one, I could see them being better than we expected with Simmons. And then I could see them maybe prompting themselves to go out and trade for the star that we can't see in the future. but, you know, they have to be in the mix there as like one of the main competition. So the Nets are of top league pass team. They're one of the biggest surprises of the season.

Do you want to give them any of their superlatives all we're here? Best of the generation. Are they even the best team in their own city? Obviously not. You don't know that yet. I can confidently say that. Well,

If that wasn't surprising enough, my last team is the Orlando Magic, a team that is just smarting because Patrick Beverly took a side swipe of them the other day, basically being like, well, if they have two top 100 players, which I guess they rated as having on ESPN's list, and I believe our list as well on the ringer. They should have three on our list. Like, Wendell Carter Jr. should be in our top 100, and I think he will be at some point. But some of us got a vote on that issue. not mine. I don't think he was on my ballot, actually, so it's probably my fault. But I could see the magic being a little bit better than we expected. I could see them, like, shooting off to a seven and three start, and then all of a sudden, like, we're like, oh, the magic.

Like, maybe Franz is taking a leap this year. Obviously played really well in World Cup basketball. Paulo Bencaro also played relatively well as a backup center. And I just think the world of him in general, maybe he'll hit a three. maybe he won't. Does it matter? We'll see. I would guess not because they have so many young guys that they're still trying to develop, but I could also see them being almost too good that they have to lean into being better now and maybe trading for a veteran of Malcolm Brogden, etc. Yeah, they have so many good young, interesting players that some just aren't even going to play very much. Is Jet Howard going to be a part of the rotation? He had some really nice preseason moments. Obviously, they need someone who can,

can shoot the ball like him, but I just don't know how much room for him there's going to be. And so they have those kinds of considerations all up and down the roster, which makes for a really interesting regular season team, all of these sorts of like win now versus developmental dilemmas you're talking about Justin. Plus, just a rock solid group of prospects that you want to see thrive and flourish. And we know about, you know, the forward end of that spectrum, but like, Marco Fultz has had the best, played the best basketball of his career as a member for the Orlando Magic and seems to only be gaining confidence in getting better.

A guy who, I think a lot of people probably just rode out of the league a couple seasons ago. So the fact that he's shown some stuff is nice, but they need a lot of stuff to really mount a playoff push. I think the good news for them is there's a lot of room between where they were last season and making the playoffs. There's a lot of room there for them to just be like good and impressive and make good progress.

Yeah, I think for them to make a huge step in that direction, one of their big dogs whether it be France or Paolo would have to be playing at an all-star level, right, to sort of carry the weight of what it takes to win consistently in the NBA. And so say for that, like, yes, it's a lot of nice players, a lot of nice young guys who are headed in the right direction, but not enough people that are on, you know, a certain level to do consistent winning. We're talking about, you know, 45, 47 wins. Like, that's, that's a lot.

It takes a lot to do that in today's NBA. And I don't think they're quite there. But, you know, again, that's the beauty of potential. We can just imagine and fantasize about what these guys can do, Rob. We fantasize a lot about the Orlando Magic, if we're being honest. But I'm ready for fantasy to become reality. Yes. And that brings us now to the biggest disappointment.

I want to talk about the Clippers here, because they made a start. starting lineup decision. They are now starting Russell Westbrook, Paul George, Quay Leonard, and Ivakusupac, as we expected. But in that fourth, or excuse me, that fifth spot, the de facto power forward spot, they're playing Terrence Mann, which I think I've thought a lot about this. And I ultimately think was the best decision because the other two guys in the mix there were Nicholas Batum and Marcus Morris.

Marcus Morris, Marcus Moore is not playing during the preseason. Can't tell if he's injured or he's just mad or that the, trying to trade him and they can't. This is like a perpetual thing with Marcus Morris. Every single place he goes. Yes. Is he just mad? Is he just beating guys up?

Is he just like it's perpetual with him? Yeah. And so Batum obviously would have been, I think, the expected starter. But I've liked what I've seen out of Terrence man. The problem, Rob, I think, is like how much of this do you think is their actual solution, one, that they think Terrence Mann should be starting there versus like, is this some sort of like weird three-dimensional chess where like they're trying to get Daryl Morey to think that man is actually better than he is? And so, uh, to try to like

hold on to him or up his values. So they could try. What is going on here? I don't think it's that, but I do think it's a combination of Terrence Mann is quite a good player. He does give them something in their starting lineup. They don't. Oh, otherwise have, which is a chaser on defense, another pure energy guy on that end of the floor, who can also do enough things offensively to keep you afloat, to participate, to fill the roles you want him to fill. But it's really, to me, less about Terrence Mann and more about the other side of the Clippers rotation, which is your Nick Batom's, your Marcus Morrisis, to some extent, Robert Covington, those guys are just like aging out of like the really productive

window of their careers, even the later productive window of their careers. You know, Nick Batum is not the player he was two years ago. And that's a big problem for the Clippers, because they are built to rely on those guys. So I think they turn to Terrence Mann as much as anything because they don't have great alternatives. You know, they in theory have all these options, but when you really lay them out,

are you thrilled about starting Marcus Morris? Are you thrilled about starting Nick Batum at his age, even though he can move the ball and hit some shots? I just think those guys are really limited at where they are in their careers right now. And say what you want about Terrence Mann, he doesn't feel limited. Yeah, the thing about Terrence Mann, too, is that he's had some of his best moments ever in his career in the biggest spots possible, right? Like, he dropped 40 against Utah in a game where he made like seven threes, you know, was like grabbing boards, going full court, finishing by himself.

Like, he looked incredible in some of the biggest moments. So I think in some people's minds, I, Terrence, man, is like, like, grabbing boards, going full court, finishing by himself. People's mind's eye, Terrence Man, is like this force almost on offensive defense. And he's not, he's a nice player. He's got a lot of all-around skills. I don't think he's the kind of guy that you can leave completely ignored behind the three-point line. But at the same time, you're not stressed when Terence Man takes a three, right? And so I just think he's a good energy fit with the two ball dominant wings and a guy that's not, he's not thirsty to have the ball.

He's willing to take any defensive assignment that you give him with a plum. I just like his rotational fit with the guys that are around him. Like between Russ, Paul George and Kauai, like, there's no more possessions for you. You're done. You got to do dirty work. And he's a dirty work type of player. So I think he fits perfectly. Somebody like Marcus Morris, he really thinks he should be getting shots when he's on the court with Paul George and Kauai Leonard.

Like, he really believes that about himself. And I think that's been helpful for him and many times in his career, but in other stops, you know, he's bristled against certain systems and conventions. And so, yeah, Terrance Man seems like the obvious choice to me. And Batum is completely washed. So they're like, so...

I don't know if I completely washed. He's playable. Like, he's a rotation player. He's playable. But if he's starting, there are problems. He's not a starter, guys. And maybe... Justin, is that kind of the crux of your

projection of them as a disappointment? Is this idea of their supporting cast? What is it that's got you worried about them? It is that. Yeah, I think you hit it, where starting man doesn't seem like it was an ascension of this critical role player that they've long since expected

to just make it into the starting lineup to make sense of this team. It seems a little desperate to have to go to him. And like they still have Norm Powell, So I guess they could, in theory, go a little bit smaller and start him. But you probably want that offensive juice off the bench. It just seems startling to me that when the Clippers first formed under Kauai and PG, it's like, wow, look at all of the three and D guys. They have up and down this roster.

What a modern example of basketball in, what was it, 2019? And now I'm looking at, traditional center, Russ, a center in a point guard's body effectively. And Terrence Mann, who's probably like a five years ago version of a 3-D guy, where his percentage is actually pretty good the past year, but he's only going to take a corner three once or twice a game, right? And so it's like it's really just quiet PG at this point. And that's like, it kind of like shakes me to my core that it's like, oh, this team that I keep saying like, oh, they can break through, they can break through? It's like, can they? Because maybe the window has passed them by. well I think if they do break through

it's not going to be by being a lab experiment at this point it's going to be by being a very conventional winner two stars as you said like fairly traditional lineups up and down for the most part like norm Powell is a prototypical six man of the year

kind of candidate now you have him coming off the bench backing this group up if they do get through they're just going to feel like any other good old Western conference team and not oh look at this weird ass shit that the clippers have going on. Yeah. And conspiracy theory

me also wonders maybe not a lot, but just like a little bit of me wonders, like is this just a placeholder for James Hart? Right? Can James Harden basically be a four defensively, but your point guard

offensively? They are not starting Russell Westbrook and James Harden together. Would not happen. I guarantee they will if only only for optics saying. It won't, but I think they're going to try. But it's not going to work. Russell Westbrook can't play without the ball.

It's, we, like, we tried this already. Before, yeah, two times. He exploded for this team when the stars got hurt when he was able to have the ball. So, you know, whatever. Talu's a pretty smart coach, especially on offense. So I'm sure he'll find a way to figure that out, but that can't be the case. But my disappointed team, and again, this is based solely on expectations is the thunder. And it's because I think the expectations are really high right now.

And even their own GM, as Rob mentioned on one of our last pods, like, it's like, guys, guys, guys, chill. It's a super young team. Yes, talented, but very young. And so, yes, we get why people are very excited. I think it's justifiable. but, you know, the expectation that they're going to, you know, take this jump from, you know, fighting for playing. They're playing lives to Western Conference mainstay, I think might be a little bit premature. And so they might, you know, disappoint in that way.

Not that they won't be excited to watch, not that they won't win big games against good teams at certain points in the season, but this idea that they can win like 48 games, you know, starts scratching at 50. this year, I'm not seeing it for them. And so, yeah, I think they might disappoint. Justin is just... How dare you? How dare you? It's America's team, man.

They're coming from the heartland. Was, we need this. As a country, we need this. Can't you let us have it? I don't disagree. I hear you, though. Yeah, yeah. The optimism is so strong around the thunder.

And there's so much to like with their prospects. When the reality is, is Chad Holmgren could come in and be awesome and look immediately like eventually he will be a star. But in terms of year one impact, he could be a rookie. He could be a guy who makes exceptional plays but also gives up some other things that bear out more in the numbers and the aggregate.

And so you lose sight of that because he does these individually awesome things. And it could be that kind of season for them where their young guys pop in all the ways that we're used to seeing them pop. But overall, they met out as like a good, team. And that should be fine enough. And it should be, and it's certainly a great step forward for them as an organization and for that core. But a good team is not with the projections and where the optimism is right now. I think that we're overstating it maybe a bit based on our just like raw enthusiasm to see these guys play. Have you seen Usman Jang yet? Come on. Here we go.

Rob, who do you have? Again, relative to expectation, I think it's Phoenix. I just, I just think there's a lot of penciling them in for a conference final. Yeah. I think it's going to be an up and down season. I think it's going to be maybe another second round out. Watson has never been happier. Can we just say that? No, you know what? Phoenix is a fun team for me because they're polarizing.

People are all over the place on them. People are like finals. Some people, Rob's like second round flame out. Like I think they're going to be in the conference finals. they're going to give the Nuggets hell? Like, they're polarizing, which is fun. You know, I love polarization. Like, maybe my pessimism will be very poorly founded.

But in my mind's eye, I'm imagining, you know, the Lakers or the Warriors breaking through to the conference finals instead. You know, one of these kind of older teams that have like a little... More battle tested. More battle tested, a little more security in the rotation, fewer questions across the board, but mostly I just don't trust them to be healthy. I don't trust the Sons to be healthy throughout the season or when it matters. And I don't trust Yusuf Nurchich in virtually any capacity in which he's going to be trusted by the Phoenix Sons this season.

So I have my concerns. That late Capri season was tough, bro. AD was making him look crazy. It was just like he couldn't even get a layup off. It was like when you play against your nephew on the Fisher Price hoop. and you just cook every single shot that he attempts. It was, ooh, Nerk. So you got the Lakers big boying Yusuf Nerkich a little bit.

And then if the Sons played the Warriors, that that dude is going to step out and contest to Steph Curry three? Yeah. I'm worried. I'm a little worried. I don't disagree with you in the regular season. I think they're going to have a much higher ceiling in the playoffs. And I actually only think Denver will give them trouble at the center position.

if we're kind of plotting out the matchups. Like, ultimately 80s going to be playing center in the playoffs. And so I wonder if you could steal some in it with KDs. Yeah. I don't think it's like a center against center like you're worried about the opposing five getting 30. It's just like your team defense being fundamentally compromised. And not only that, but like quietly, Yusuf Nurkich, not a great rebounder.

You know, like there's for a team that's going to play very small other than Kevin Durant. He has a physical reputation, but he doesn't. Bored. It doesn't board. I just don't think it's strange. It will matter ultimately in the playoffs.

I think if they're going to win, they're going to blow teams out like 150 to 120. You know? It's going to be very well my offense. Yes. I think the offense could be absolutely sick.

And I honestly can't wait to watch those three guys work together because in the preseason, it's really popped. Like the initial signs of how Booker and Beal and Durant are going to play off each other. It's going to work.

Incredibly promising. I'm just worried about some of the peripheral stuff. Yeah, it's crazy watching some of the Beal clips and just seeing how, like, dynamic of an athlete he is and like how we forget, like, how he was like a playmaking engine for like a decent team for a little while. And he's their number three guys. So, but still a really good pick. I think that's a, that's a good one to target. Number six, since we're talking about new additions, uh, who's the most interesting non-dame new edition? Was, who do you have? Aitin for me, which is Dame related. Dominating? It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's because, again, this team is headed in one direction, meaning youth movement, young guys who, and especially ball dominant kind of guys,

who they're going to be trying to develop in school in Simons, Shaden Sharp, the rest of them, right? But Aiton is allegedly the best player on this team. If he's to be believed, if, you know, the prognosticators and pontificators who said they blew the dame trade out the water, it's because they got somebody like Aiton in the building. So I want to see how he responds to now being in the opposite position

than he was in Phoenix, where he was the young, up and coming, just shut up and do your role. We don't want to hear from you guy to leader guy. You know, biggest dog in the clubhouse guy. So I want to see how he responds to this new role. And, you know, I'm just fascinated to see how he plays in this new context. Because what people take for granted, especially these Aitin types, it's like, bro, your life was impacted by playing with some greats, some all-timers, okay? Like, that makes a huge difference.

And now when teams can just scout for you and just be like, what else are they going to do? give it to a freaking rookie to shoot at the end of a shot clock to, you know, basically steer this ship by himself. Come on. I want to see how he responds to that. And of course, you know, again, he called himself dominate in. Not once, not twice, but several times. Yeah. He was on my list, too, though, for exactly this reason. You know, it's with any kind of new addition, you're looking for, you know, the splash of who could make their team jump to the next level. you're looking for young guys who can pop in ways we might not expect. But this is the kind of new addition I really zero in on,

which is who's doing something we've never seen them do before? Who's going to have the opportunity to do those kinds of things? And Aitn, in good ways and bad, is going to be all over that kind of column. And, you know, there are some bigs and some players in the league who kind of need to be pointed in the right direction on the floor and shown where to go and told by veterans and stars, like, this is what we need you to do. And this is literally where we need you to be on the floor. we're about to find out very quickly

if DeAndre Aden is exclusively that guy. He certainly was that player in Phoenix and he needed a lot of help to be an impact player for them. But maybe a little freedom could do him good too. I honestly can't wait to see it. He's going to get all the fade away 16 footers he can handle, Justin.

I was going to say, like, I don't remember Chris Paul telling him to take those shots when he was a rookie in the second year. I'm surprised you guys didn't say Tumani Kamara. the guy just heating up on Blazers' Twitter, played like one or two games, looked halfway decent,

and all of a sudden he's the steal of that trade. So I feel out flanked. I haven't seen much money at Kamara play yet. Wow. I feel like I've really been pantsed here on our own podcast, so thanks a lot for that. I've never even heard of them.

I'm getting on the ground floor of Portland. I'm sure he's the preseason. I'm sure he's the man in the preseason. He's a legend in the preseason. Rob, who do you have for most interesting non-Dame new edition. Another kind of like basic-y pick in the Dame camp,

but Chris Soporzingis, just again on the basis of playing with a very different kind of core, have no idea exactly what his role is going to be for that team in the long term. Like we know kind of where he's going to start, but over the course of the season, how does it grow?

How does it evolve? Who gets frustrated in Boston when things don't go well for a week or two at a time? I just want to see how he fits there because I think the best case scenario is devastating. And the worst case scenario is he doesn't play basketball because he's hurt. And so, you know, how healthy is he? How real was the Washington stuff last season?

What can he be to this team? There's a lot of questions around a really talented player who might be in his best spot to actually play winning basketball. Was, have you seen the Peyton Pritchard Christop's lob combination? Have you seen white lightning in action? I just imagine that a lot of people. pants were creamed in Boston when that happened. All right. All right.

That's on you, Justin. You set that up. You facilitated that. He's the expert, man. It's like not going to you about young players. I got to go to him about Boston. I like Peyton Purchard. I actually wish he was a little bit more aggressive with his shot and seeking it.

I think he'd be better for it. sometimes I just think he plays too passive because of the nature of the guys around him, honestly. You want more paid and Pritchard time. It's Payton Pritchard time all the time. Why not? He's awesome. Why not? He's good.

He's good. He's good. I like him. I think he's a good player too. I would just like to see him do more with that. And shout to all the Boston Celtics fans who helped our little clip go baby viral. I was happy to participate in that. Yeah.

I was hoping that we can get just a cam on Rob and just hear Waz and I going back and forth, but maybe that's the call. I'm sure there will be opportunities. Well, sometimes you've got to know when to just clear out. Sometimes I just go stand in the corner and let you guys do your thing. Well, that's a good segue to the guy on my list who is definitely not that because that's Chris Paul. I think there's a lot of good and a lot of bad in the situation. That's why I'm so attracted to it, like I'm off to a flame.

We saw him just instantly integrate himself into this offseason, like the clip going around of hitting Steph on the relocation. It's like, oh, this guy's a basketball genius. He's going to figure this out and he's going to get these guys open shots. Whether or not Clay Thompson is going to hit those open shots, considering how poorly he's played in the preseason, we'll see. That's like a much bigger concern down the road we'll deal with. But also I think Chris Paul has been at his best,

historically kind of fostering younger teammates who are actually, willing to listen to him and he's not willing to yell up them too much. And I think you could already kind of see that sort of fostering relationship with Jonathan Kaminga. Kaminga had a really good preseason. And there's also the clip of Paul being very excited because Kaminga sealed off his man in order to clear a path to the rim. He wasn't the one rolling or anything. He was just doing his job. And Paul was very excited for him. I could see him having that sort of effect on some of the young core that still exists on this team. That's the good.

The bad is I have not seen Chris Paul play with Draymond Green yet, and that is potentially explosive for all of the bad reasons. I don't know if it will ever get to Jordan Pool territory, but like, we're talking oil and water here, and something's going to happen at some point. You know what I will say about that, though, Justin? Chris Paul is usually yelling at people for doing the right, wrong basketball play. Draymond Green very rarely ever makes the wrong basketball play. So, like, I think that's going to actually work a little bit better because these dudes, that's cold to say.

Like, it's cliche to say, but this is a fundamental basketball team and culture. That's why a lot of these young guys that bristled under it, they don't come in with the knowledge and, you know, the sort of know-how offensive or defensive awareness, which is why they end up. up not fitting in over there, right? I think that's part of why Kamenghis had a hard time. It's that, you know, he needs space to make mistakes and Golden State is so fundamentally sound all the damn time that you just can't abide by it. But I think Chris Paul and Dreman, you know, as crazy as it sounds, I think they're going to get along fine because these dudes know how to hope for real. The other thing about the Chris Paul experience is year one is usually not that bad. It's when you get into like year, year three of Chris Paul chirping at you about the same things,

that's when guys really start to, what's the right? Like squirm under kind of the pressure he applies. They really, they really get turned off on the experience. A certain point, a dude who's seven inches shorter than you, always yelling at you, becomes just like untenable. There's a lot of pointing in the face, pointing straight up at centers telling them what to do. And again, he's often not. wrong either.

And so that is kind of the universal thing you hear about Dremond is that like, yes, he can be an asshole. But when he's an asshole, often he's right. It's just kind of a tonality thing. And so how he and Chris work together once those guys are on the floor on a full-time basis, both being kind of right in their own way, but also being a little abrasive about it, at least confrontational about it, it could be a very good thing for the Warriors or as you alluded to Justin, it could be, could lead to a very interesting like December, January, February

when most teams are just kind of in cruise control and all of a sudden the Warriors are flaring up. The best Warriors role players tend to be the guys who could fit into the flow and the improvisational nature of that. And Chris Paul's fucking Coltrane, right? Like you dealt with these kind of work-a-day, like James Wiseman types

who were just sitting in and able to like do enough just to play the minutes. Like Chris Paul is a goddamn point guard. And so like it will probably be electric. for a while until it's probably not. All right. Next question. Who is the Sinti Aldama Memorial trademark?

Most intriguing under the radar player. And Rob, here we clear out for you. My only question is how many names do you want? Let's keep it single digits, please. Okay, off the top, Chris Dunn. Shout out to Chris Dunn, locked up a guaranteed deal in Utah. honestly has been maybe their most consistent point guard.

And that's probably saying more about Utah's point guard rotation than him. Sorry to interject. I just want to ask you a question. How much preseason basketball hours have you crunched so far? So I watch very few full preseason games. That is an abominable experience. So you're just doing the second spectrum type of deal. I'm diving into the synergy.

I'm saying, oh, this guy had a nice game. You hear from so-and-so, like, oh, hey, watch this guy, watch this young prospect. So I'm jumping in the tape. secondhand, so to speak. Okay, got you, got you, got you. Because, you know, I was about to check on the health of your marriage, depending on that answer.

Because my word, Utah Jazz preseason basketball commitment is on another level. It's not even a relationship issue. It's a personal mental health issue. And no human being should be subjecting themselves to that much preseason basketball. That's what we're here for in a way, is to digest this stuff to give it to you. Josh Green and Dallas, another guy who I feel like I'm constantly shouting out in these kinds of situations. He's had some of like those games recently that expand your mind as far as like what all he could do. Big kind of TBD as far as whether he ends up starting for the Mavs or not.

Like there's some chatter that. Can somebody explain this to me? I think it has left to- What did he do to Jason kid? I mean, a perpetual question. I think it has less to do with him and more to do with they're trying to find room for Derek Jones Jr. to have a spot. in the rotation and putting Jones with better playmakers serves him better versus Josh Green's such a dynamic open court player who can kind of like make things happen for himself in a lot of

capacity. So I think it's about in a way giving Josh Green some runway to do the things he does best. So I imagine he'll come off the bench, but he's going to have the kind of season where he threatens to start the whole time because he's turning into that kind of player. who else is worth mentioning here. Obie Toppin for the Pacers. One of the best dunkers in the league just joined maybe the fastest team in the league. Something tells me that's going to be pretty sick.

Last one, Jordan Goodwin on the Sons. One of the actual point guards on their roster. I don't know. It feels like they could really use a guy who is like a really tenacious defender at the point. And yet I don't know if he's going to play basically at all. Like he should be able to carve out like 12 to 15.

minutes for them. He could be an impact player. He feels like the kind of guy who in a playoff series against the right opponent is going to be very important all of a sudden. And yet there could be stretches of the regular season where he's just not a relevant part of what they're doing. So a handful, this is me showing restraint. That's half of the list.

I'm going to back off respectful and let you guys cook a little bit too. Good one is no to Mani Kamara, but we'll see. I have who is. Yeah, I have two written down here. The first one is Mark Williams. in his second year. Only played 43 games last year, but only 28 with Lamello Ball.

He got talked about coming into the league as kind of like a switchable, like five position sort of guys. I'll be honest, like in the little that I've seen of him doesn't seem like that. Seems like a little bit of a sluggish athlete, but he does have great hands as a great shot form. And also he's a giant target for Lamella Ball. And like, that alone is going to get him just a ton of looks at the basket every game. And I think it'll be great for ball to finally have.

that because he didn't really have that sort of just lob threat earlier in his career. He's been playing with PJ Washington types and other guys that they've been thrown in there. I guess Mason Palmly would have been in there. But the other guy have McKeel Alexander Walker reborn after being a shot thirster. And all of a sudden, now he's like a pretty good 3-D guy. We'll see there. But all of a sudden, the bulls look like they have a lot of depth. And he's a really intriguing guy. It's funny, when the trade happened for Russell and Connolly, there were those stories coming out of Minnesota, like, oh, they wouldn't have done the deal if they didn't get Nikiel in there. I was like, really? Like, very much in the Terrence man sort of vibe where it's like, oh, that's the sticking point here. But he has turned out to be a very successful role player for them. And so I want to see him get another shot this year. Yeah, the only ones that I got are Zeke Najee and Peyton Watson, because if the nuggets, are going to have a credible bench, these guys got to do something.

And they're going to get the opportunity to show that they can. And so it's something I'll be watching. And, you know, particularly Zieg Najee in the past has shown what they call signs in the past. But again, injuries just never been able to consistently stay on the floor. So those two guys, because they're going to be asked to,

they're going to have a chance to prove it on, you know, a platform of the world. champions. And so, yeah, I'm definitely intrigued by them just by the possibilities and what it would mean for this team going forward. Well, with Zieg Najee, some affirmation of those signs just got a four-year extension from the Nuggets too. So clearly they are seeing some of what we are seeing. And I think what a lot of Nuggets fans hope for, which is that he can take some of that backup center responsibility, at least for the regular season. You know, we saw in the playoffs, Aaron Gordon is going to play a lot of those minutes. But if Zik Naji can get them through the year and give them

reliable backup center play. I think that's going to be really huge for the rotation. Do you think he could supplant DeAndre Jordan, though? It's tough. It's a tough job to do. Yeah. Can I do one more guy? One more guy.

I say this only because we mentioned him in passing when we were doing our power rankings. I think he deserves like a little bit more of a spotlight. And that's Sasha Vesinkoff in Sacramento. I'm not being a parody of my. myself at this moment. I'm being completely earnest with the both of you.

I think he's going to win you guys over. I think he's going to win you guys over this season. Like the kind of shooting big who moves shoots really fast. I think it will fit very naturally into like all their handoff and movement stuff. And I mean, if you use him as like an off ball screener

for someone like Kevin Herder and all of a sudden you have shooters spiraling in different directions, I just think he's going to be a really good fit for the Kings. And the shooting is going to be. You're a good partner for Kevin Herder? I'm now interested. That's all it takes.

That's all it takes. All right. We went a while without mentioning an obscure foreign guy. So thank you for checking that box. Yes. You're welcome. All right. Awards predictions.

Who wants to go first for MVP? Rob. Less obscure foreign guy. Nicola Yokich is going to win MVP again. Yeah. I mean, I tend to like that pick. I think there was. this idea that he would let Jamal Murray take some more responsibility on offense, particularly

during the regular season. So, you know, like get his All-Star campaign going and all of that stuff. But the guy can't help but be dominant. So I'm not mad at the pick. But my pick is actually honest. I just think he's going to be able to score really efficiently, more efficiently than the previous seasons, hopefully, because he's letting other people help him out in that way.

And I think he's going to be playing, you know, all day. defense level defense. So his all around impact, in my opinion, is going to be that of an MVP this season. So Janus is my pick. I like both of those picks, if only because I think Embed winning last year almost resets the fatigue on those guys. Because I could see both of them getting momentum because they should have won it last year, right? Yeah. And so like if Yokic just won a third time, it would have been damn near impossible just because people don't like to

keep voting for the same guy over and over again. But I actually think Yokic had a better chance this year because he didn't get it last year. Well, there's a lot of conversation, too, about how few people have ever won three in a row. And so the threshold for Yokic became, not is he the best player in the NBA, but is he deserving of joining this elite class of like,

Jeremy and Larry Bratt? Bill Russell? Who would ever say that? No one would ever say it. That doesn't happen. I hate you so much. I'm going to pick Luca. if only because it's going to happen at some point.

At some point, you've got to be right. I'm going to be right one of these years. I might be wrong like five times as often as I am right, but he's going to win one. I actually don't know if this year is the year, but I guess if they do perform well, it will be so surprising that I could see him getting a lot of love for MVP for that reason.

Yeah. I can absolutely see it with Luca. You know, I could see it in the way. that they are not a dominant, dominant team, but they're just good enough, and he is just undeniable enough. He's just out of this world, yeah.

Seems very plausible. Rookie of the year, Waz? I mean, I tried to go hipster. I tried to zag, but, like, essentially those dudes from Taken would have to kidnap Victor Webminiama tomorrow for him not to win this award. And even then, Pop and his CIA buddies will probably be able to break them back out.

So, yeah, Wembeyanama, I don't even know, there's no point in even talking about this, in my opinion. Like, he's going to win this award so long as he plays. I like how even the kidnapping plots aren't full proof anymore. Like, if anyone in the NBA has the special set of skills required, it is Greg Popovich. I also wished I could go more hipster here. Like, I do think Chet is going to have a very strong season. And in any normal class would probably be the rookie of the year. I'm just blown away

by the Victor Webminiama experience already I need people to look at the photo capture freeze frame of his block on Andrew Wiggins from the other day a preseason three-pointer that I don't even know where he jumped from inside the lane

like inside the elbow and just erases this shot like it's one thing to be a big who's a you know like up at Mitchell Robinson style up at the level just barely contest and getting a finger on a block

and altering its trajectory, but like he should not be able to get to these shots. He should not be able to do basically anything that he's doing on the court. And so as much as I would like to believe in the tenant that rookies are not that effective and generally kind of be pessimistic about young players in general as it relates to them being impact players immediately,

I don't know how to describe what Victor Webbenyama is doing other than to say he's having a massive, undeniable impact. There were clips coming out of Maverick's practice the other day because they were about to play the spurs and assistant coaches were running around with like giant foam pads on their arms pretending to be Victor Webb and Yama

because the dimensions of playing him are so different. How is that guy not going to win rookie of the year? They have to start dressing like the alien from the movie alien in order to replicate what this guy could do. Yeah, I too wanted to zag, if only to be different and go with Chet, because I do think he's going to have a very good year this year.

But I think a vote against Victor would be that he just gets hurt or that he isn't going to play as often as maybe we think just because they're going to manage his minich, which doesn't seem like is going to happen. It seems like they're actually going to lean into how just exciting and different this guy is. And so I don't want that on my conscience.

I can't have that bad juju out there. And so I like pop and very just over the moon about the Victor Wen Yama experience. And so I will also vote for Victor. Most improved, kind of a bullshit award, which typically goes to the player who's already good, but then gets fringe all-star level good, right? So we're talking John Moran in recent years, Janice and Tadacompo, Brandon Ingram. And so considering that typical history for the award, I'm going to say Tyrese Maxi for all the reasons that we've talked about in the past. Same.

Just seems like he's on the verge of a 20 plus per game season. He's already good. He's just going to add reps and opportunities. And that makes you the most improved. So in 13 games without James Harden last year, you average 25 points a game, which is not a crazy big sample. But, man, that's like eye popping right there. That's a one. So Hardin's going to be gone at some point, or even when he's back, it's going to be in a

marginalized fashion. So the opportunities are going to see an uptick. And my favorite part about this pick of yours, Justin, is that he's playing for a contract. He hasn't been extended yet. And so this guy is going to be motivated to go out and kick ass. And so that's what I think he'll do. Well, especially whatever caveats you might be able to tag on Tyrese Maxie at this point, Whatever concerns you may have about his ultimate trajectory as a player,

it's like those concerns are, oh, how sophisticated a pick and roll operator can you be, can the playmaking step up? Does the, will be deep- Can he get to the line a little bit more? Can he get to the line a little bit more? Can he hold his own defensively? I am here to tell you that basically none of those things matter

as it relates to most improved player because he's going to be, he's going to be on the ball all the time, and he's going to look awesome. He is a great pick-and-roll play. and he's going to run a shit ton of pick and roll. So what is there not to like about a player taking a step up in that way? Especially when I think sometimes the winners of this award are literally just like scales up and opportunity as it becomes available to them.

And there's a degree of that with Maxie, but like he's been around, he's been playing a role. He's never had this shot before. And he's about to have, again, another guy with a lot of freedom in front of him. And his ability to hold up under that will be impressive in itself if he does. But I just think he's crazy, crazy talented as a pick and roll. score and he's going to have every opportunity to show it. Yep.

I think Bain has to be on the short list just because of the opportunities he'll get without John and even with Jha. But yeah, I've heard some Franz Wagner buzz too. I think that would be an interesting one. But that might be more like honestly, one of these guys who widespread public opinion is a little behind on Franz. And so if the magic have a good season and he's very good, maybe a good chunk of the voting block will just be like,

oh, this Franz Wagner guy turns out he's a very good. be a player who knew. And we all get on the same page together and give him most improved. But it feels like it's Tyrese to lose, honestly. Sure. Defensive player of the year? Rob? I kind of tip my hand on this one when we were talking power rankings, but I think it's

Anthony Davis. I think the Lakers are going to be the best defense. I think he's going to be clearly the reason why. And there isn't enough, like, there's not enough ways to, like, diffuse that responsibility and the praise for how good the Lakers are going to be defensively. It's not like anyone is going to be pointing at Christian Wood and DeAngelo Russell and saying, like, oh, AD is that good because he plays with these guys. Like, it's going to be him.

And he's going to be, I think, more than deserving. So you know how we have that cliche. Whenever a president does something significant, we say this is the day that they finally became president. I think of Donald Trump, that time that he shot a jump shop with the toilet paper in Puerto Rico after a natural disaster. I was like, this is the day... A broke-ass jump shot.

This is the day he finally became president. For me, that was AD. I feel like for years we've been calling him the quote-unquote best defensive player in the NBA. But last year in the playoffs, he actually became that. Because not only was he playing great defense, that defense was carrying the day for the Lakers.

They didn't have some incredible offense to lean back on. LeBron was severely limited. AD's... Out of this world defense is what got them to the conference finals, period. That's what happened. That's what turned that Golden State Warriors series on his head. Like, what he was doing to Steph and picking roles and stuff like that. So to me, he's the best defensive player in the year in the NBA right now.

So he's going to win that award for me. I also have Anthony Davis because I'm unoriginal and we also have quorum yet again. I guess short lists would just be bam. Yeah. Yeah. Some of the late in playoff success just kind of rewarding him for that. So, Draymond's always on my list no matter what. Draymond Mobley, you could see if they have the best defense in the league this year.

It doesn't have like the new car like sort of smell that wards off voters typically. They don't want to give it to young players. And so I can see him winning it this year. He was already on the ballot last year. We're not going to do six man and coach of the year. Both of those awards are bullshit unless anyone feels differently. No. Okay, great.

Keep it moving. All right. Finals picks. I want to go to Rob first, if only because I don't want the podcast to get derailed by what will happen afterward. But Rob, who's your finals pick? I think it might get derailed now anyway, because I'm taking the nuggets over the bucks in the finals, which means Waz and I both go to French Laundry and Justin is footing the bill. So everybody wins.

Yeah, I have the exact same NBA finals. I think the sons are going to go to the conference finals. I believe Boston will go to the conference finals. I believe both series will be very, very competitive. But ultimately, to me, Denver's not just the guys that they have, the way that they fit, the continuity. Just collectively, they've been through a lot of playoff wars and been very successful, man.

And I think in those tough moments, I just trust what they do. And I think they're going to win the championship. And again, I think they're going to make themselves legends this year by winning back to back. So, yeah, the nuggets over the bucks in the finals. I've actually been researching how many different items you could shave truffles onto. Like, if I get a salad, like a side salad, do you think I can get truffles on that as well? Like, just a cheese plate truffles on the cheese?

I know you want to stretch this out, but I don't think you want that as much as you think you want that. to be over-truffled is a uniquely unpleasant experience. I want caviar and truffles on everything possible because I am going for the Boston Celtics, but in a shocker, I'm also picking the Denver Nuggets to make it back to the finals. So I think those two are going in would obviously favor the Celtics, but believe it or not, I actually think the Denver Nuggets are a pretty good basketball team this year. Are you sure they're good enough to make the finals? I mean, do you have enough reason to think that they're capable of doing such a thing?

I would argue that I look at every new season differently, and so I evaluate teams based on that and not past success, like some of us. He's a scientist, Rob. He's a basketball scientist, clearly. You know what's funny is I was actually looking back at our rankings last year. Do you know who Rob had number one last year in the rankings? Probably Milwaukee, I would think, right? I think it was Golden State

who happened to win the title of the previous year and Rob, can you remind me who you had won this year? The Denver Nugget? I mean, look, I don't think it's unreasonable. Yeah, the team that wins the championship is freaking good. That seems like a pretty sustainable pattern. It's not unreasonable, but we reset, man. We're always moving forward.

We're growing in this life. Just read any woman's hinge profile in Los Angeles. They'll tell you all about this. Oh, boy. Well, I hope we're growing in this life. I hope we're growing in this podcast. You know, as we expand our horizons to Sundays together, I hope we can really come into our own here.

What a beautiful way to wrap. All right. Well, thank you to Jack Sanders. And welcome to the crew. He'll be joining us on production every Sunday. We'll be back on Wednesday, regular scheduled time to talk about some actual NBA basketball. Enjoy opening night on Tuesday.

We'll see you.