The Ringer NBA Show - The 2025 Realy Awards and Sue Bird Stops By

Episode Date: July 25, 2025

Logan Murdock, Raja Bell, and Howard Beck put a bow on the 2024-25 NBA season with their fifth annual Realys Awards. Who will win the highly anticipated Crash Out of the Year Award? Later, Hall of Famer and friend of the show Sue Bird stops by to talk about WNBA All-Star Weekend, evolving as a podcast host, and much more! Show Start: (0:53) Newcomer of the Year (5:07) Worst Trade of the Year (9:54) Worst Take of the Year (17:33) Crash Out of the Year (22:44) Raja Bell Memorial Defender of the Year (31:52) A Message From Jomi Adeniran (36:33) Moment of the Year (37:31) Cliff’s Philly Sports Person of the Year (42:40) Real One of the Year (44:29) Sue Bird Interview (58:20) Hosts: Logan Murdock, Howard Beck, and Raja Bell Guest: Sue Bird Producers: Clifford Augustin and Victoria Valencia Additional Production Support: Ben Cruz and John Richter Social: Keith Fujimoto Hit the mailbag! [e-mail] The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping? Welcome to Real Ones. This is our annual anniversary show. Five years of Real Ones, so you know what we had to do. We had to tap in with the Reillies where we give out our awards for the basketball season. So I'm here. Raj is there. Howard Beck is there. And also in the second segment, we have a real friend of the show celebrating with a Sue

mother effing bird. In front of the show, she's a three-timer now. So she gets the MFN distinction. We talk about the state of the WMBA. annual WMBA talk. All Things All Star, all things the future of the league, all things Sue Bird mentorship, podcaster, media mogul, we get in all of that. So tap into the last real ones of the season.

I, Cliff, play the theme music. It's popping. Real ones. Logan Murdoch here. Roger Beck there. Oh, damn fuck. Roger Bell there. Yes, sir.

Howard, motherfucker. second to cut. This is the anniversary show, ladies and gentlemen. We have done five years, Rajah, five years of real ones. We're here. This is the annual anniversary show.

And we are going to go out with the day. It's been a pleasure, Logan. I just want to, I know you're going to do your thing, bro. It's been a pleasure from where we came from to now. Thank you, Holmes. It's been real. Oh, my God. And you're bringing back to the fucking bowl. Don't start getting all

Sappy on me. Like, I'm out here, like, I'm out here, tight neck and shit. Like, you know what I mean? Roger came on the rivers side. Put on a shirt with a collar for our award show and, like, you went like full on, like, Beck, this means something.

You got, like, the gray coat and tie and. Yeah, I got, I kind of got into it. I was in the closet lately. You got, you, I just, I just came back from, Vegas, all the, they looked like a pit boss. Yeah. Oh, yeah, you do. You do.

You look like this person. I was going for, but thanks. It's okay, man. Pit boss is look good. It's not an insult. Like 30-year-old Barack, bro. It's all good, man. You know, lock in.

Anyway, also, she said we have a Sue Bird going in the next segment to help celebrate with us. And, yeah, man, with that, being said, we'll bring Clifford to the fold who's looking equally spiffy. But, like, he puts some sheen on, some Afro sheen? Yeah, come on. Some soul glow. No, it's not. You put the Ferrell face cream on? Like, where are we at?

What are we doing? What's it on? No soul glow, no afro-shan. I just decided to be on my little Steve Harvey. I mean, you got to put the lotion on. You got to get the curls right. You know what I'm saying? I don't got a shape up right now.

But, you know, you know, you told me. After this, after this show, you're going to Dubai and you're about to take some flicks off. Dubai? You got Dubai money for me, bro? You got Dubai money for me, bro. But no, man, look, look, look. This is how we going to do it. I'm going to be on my Steve Harvey real quick.

We got to get Howard in and out of here. You know, thank you, Howard, for coming on your break, by the way, too. We appreciate you, brother. We appreciate you taking the time out to do your job on your break somehow. That is a really, really crazy, crazy concept. Technically not my, not my break. I'm just kind of balancing, like, three jobs at once at the moment, but it's all right. It's all right.

I'm teaching some young minds. There we go. You hustling. You're doing your thing, brother. The real ones of tomorrow are here in my classroom. The real ones of tomorrow. Bro, we got to give you finger snaps on that one, for real. Anyways, you don't want to get right into it?

You want to get into the first category? What we doing? Look, how you feel? How you feeling, Logan? You got a sharp cut. You got the stripes on the glasses on? You know what I mean? I'm feeling good, man.

Waves are spinning. Slow motion with the potion trying to get to the ocean, man. Let's do it. Roger got his best, you know what I mean? Coming out the Davis Stern coming out the No More Baggy Jeans ever suit on, bro. Roger, you look at the shirt, man. This barely fits me, by the way, dog. I'm like, yeah.

Was that? Hey, man, if this was over driving me and Roger my choke to death. No, this was, this was, oh, this was 15, like, Cleveland Cavaliers executive suite. Okay. There we go. And it barely fits, so I got about 20 more minutes in it. All right, all right. Let's get to the shits, Cliff.

Let's get to the shit. Yeah, my phone, Howard. I'm in, no, no, I'm in no position to be taking pot shots since all I'm in is a polo shirt here. And I'm, like, feeling, like, suddenly way underdressed as if I just wore, like, t-shirt and jeans into, like, the golf club or something. thing. So I'm in no position to say this, but I'm just going to anyway. The last time I saw that coat, Logan, was in Beetlejuice. And I say this respectfully because, like, Beetlejuice is a sharp dresser, man. Like, I can't compete with him either. But I'm just saying, last time I saw black and white vertical stripes on a sport coat, that was pretty much it in the

afterlife. I missed you guys. Oh, man. That is hilarious. All right, man. Let's get to it. Everybody. Let's get to the shit. So let's get to the first category.

Newcomer of the year. Now look, this is my first year hosting the realies. So I really don't know how this is about to go. This is y'all five year anniversary. We're all the gang. We're all the group here. So Logan, explain to me. How are you about to do the real?

How are you about to figure out who the newcomer of the year is? Man, I really didn't know how to do this, bro. I had, I don't want to take the easy way out and say. You know, because I see what you just did there. You know what I mean? I see how you just put your bid in on the very low. You know what, man? Yes, I'm going to take the easy way out.

I'm going to go our new producer team. Cliff and Victoria, who are bona fide newcomers of the year. Like, they have taken this to a whole new level of a podcast with the video. We're going into Spotify video. All the pods are going in the video. They have made that such a seamless transition. So am I pandering probably, but do I mean it? Absolutely. So, you know, Cliff and Victoria. So yes, I'm pandering absolutely, but do I mean all the words that I say? Absolutely. Yes. So that's my newcomer of the year. Do you guys just want to say that's the newcomer of the year? Do you guys have new newcomers of the year? I was I was with Howard like just full disclosure when Howard shot off the text saying can we get a little clarity on some of these so I didn't know where to go on any of these muffles I like your newcomer of the year I would probably co-sign that I was going to do the whole Stefan Castle thing and go through like I had I mean I'm in town

I'm actually NBA players that deserve new company yeah I had Alvin Thompson yeah I was going to get into those type of things but I mean I could I could I could I could I could I could could definitely co-sign on your rule on your newcomer i mean you're newcomer of the year yeah i mean you have a newcomer i'm sorry you know i just just it was a hasty move putting the categories together i think these are just like nominees right we don't have to declare a we can declare a winner afterward but like you asked us to come up with nominees um you guys know me i get like a little creative and weird sometimes i thought newcomer the year like what's the most impactful newcomer could it be mr second apron Oh, here we go.

That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So think about this. Not the first year of the second apron, not entirely new, but this is the first year we've really seen like the major, major impact of the second apron, right? So think about going all the way back to last off season coming into this season. Clippers let Paul George walk because of the second apron.

The Nuggets let Casey P walk because of the second apron. And the Warriors parted with Clay Thompson largely because of the second apron. And then Eve of the season, the Timberwolves send Carl Anthony Towns to New York, reshapes two teams, the Knicks and Wolves. They both make the conference finals. You could say the second apron factored into the heat, not extending Jimmy Butler. There's obviously a lot of factors there, but cost is part of it. That leads to him pouting.

That leads to him being traded. Then this summer, fast forward, Memphis Grizzlies send Desmond Bain to Orlando. That's a second apron trade. Celtics dumped Porzingis and Drew Hollis. day, second apron trades. The Sun's buying out Bradley Beale is about the second apron and resetting. The Bucks dumping Dame Lillard or buying out, extenuating circumstances, hamstring, everything else, but still relevant. Pacer's not matching what Miles Turner could make from the Bucks where he left to go, extenuating circumstances again, but still relevant and second apron

influence. And on top of it all, what were we talking about within seconds of the Thunder winning the championship, but like how long can they keep it together in an era where it's impossible to have any continuity anymore. So even after the championship, we're talking about like the champion's future because of the second apron. So newcomer of the year, congratulations, Mr. Second Apron. Oh, I was back. How that? You came out swinging, brother. Damn. I like that. Way it back distant. I may be underdressed, but I'm overprepared. Me, meanwhile. Could we do like newcomer the year for someone who's been around, but they're in new locations like BJ Bickerstaff and Kenny Ackinson, like for their respect

newcomers, same cities, right? Like, I didn't know where to go. I was like all over the place. I like that, Howard. Yeah, man. Good shit, Howard. Show them to love, man. Shout out to my favorite newcomer, Paul George, of the Philadelphia 76ers.

Anyways, next category. This is going to be a recurring theme throughout the podcast. Next category. The nice thing is you can welcome him as a newcomer again when he shows up about mid-season after his latest recovery. pow, pow, pow, pow, pow. Yo, all right, man, let me, let me get myself together here. Fellas, got to move the hosting duties here.

The worst trade of the year. Now, before Roger goes off about his man's, and everybody had all the fit, bad things to say about it, Roger just keep cooler heads, you know, cooler heads for bail here. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, we're not going to do nothing crazy here because there are, this could fit for two people. now your boy jalen green you did say some things about him once he got traded and obviously your boy

nico with dallas so you know i don't know we're going to go here so logan started off worst trade of the year i mean i tried to find other trades but damn it's hard to be the worst trade in the history of the NBA like it's really hard to it's hard to top that um and i feel like every time And we, like, that, because it's just going to cast a shadow on both the league and the Dallas Mavericks for the rest of civilization. I feel for, it's so bad that I feel for Nico. Like, I was looking, bro, so I was, we're going to, I'm sure we're going to get to this category. But I was even looking at, like, I was looking at, like, compilations for, like, big arguments throughout the, the regular season. You see these on the YouTube algorithm.

And one of them was like, fire, Nico. just made it to the compilation, bro, right? Like, even for no reason. We weren't even talking about trades and he's in this, right? Like, people have a real visceral reaction to this man. To where he has to have extra security. Like, I remember seeing Nico Harrison be, like, around arenas before the trade and after the trade and after the trade. I just feel sad.

So, you know, Dallas, it doesn't matter how good they are. This is going to, or bad they become. This is going to follow this. them forever. And then the Lakers, who knows? You just gave them a 10-year championship window. The Los Angeles Lakers. I'm sure Rodgers is really happy about that, but like most of the league isn't.

I'm not a Laker hater. I don't even have a lot. But yes, the Dallas Mavericks trading Luca Dotses to the Los Angeles Lakers, worst trade of all time. Do we have any, I don't even know if there's, I don't think there's a try bet. I want to take an attempt.

I was, I was, well, actually. I was going to pause for a second just to see was Raja going to try to spin this a little bit and say, you know, actually, I wanted to see, like, was there a counter? Was there like any, like, because you knew this was coming, Raja. Like you knew, like there was no one. This is a landslide kind of thing here. I mean, listen, dog, I would just say this. If, if life has taught me anything and it's debatable how much I've learned and how much I should have learned at this point, it's to reserve judgment. And you just don't know.

I mean, I agree with all of the reasons. You should have gotten more and all of that type of stuff. But if you want me to play the side of the fence that I played during the trade, I will just go back to say that like if anyone knows him intimately and knows, you know, like some of the chinks that might be in the armor and some of the habits that might stop you from being what everyone thinks you should be. It would be the math. So I still don't co-sign it.

I still don't, you know, I agree with all you guys and that it didn't material. or produce what it should have produced, but I would just say those things again and say, I'll just sit here and watch. Who knows? You said there's a 10-year window for the Lakers to win one. They better motherfucking win one. I just got to say.

Raja, ladies and gentlemen, is an amazing friend. Okay? You guys are seeing this right now. He's an amazing friend. But listen, that's not defending. I didn't defend Nico in that, like, look, dog, if your job is to take an asset, like Luca and spin it for as much as you can get, you failed.

Like I'm not, I'm not that type of friend sitting here telling you. Nah, no, he did. Like, I'm not sitting here telling you that. But I am trying to see like why, what might move somebody to do something like that, right? Like, and that's what I could come up with. Yeah. So I was thinking about this last night. And I'm like, man, we have, we have beaten the hell out of Nico and the Mavs and Patrick.

What's Dumont? we went through all this and Raja did his I think a fair-minded by the way I want to say all teasing aside Raj's had a no it's a fair minded counter which is they do have I think some valid

concerns they had some valid concerns it doesn't justify the trade I don't think and it doesn't justify the when how why what you got back of the trade but they may have their reasons okay we'll see what happens yeah there's a world here where the Lakers never win a championship even with him and maybe we see this trade differently down the road

Probably not. I think it will always be the worst trade in NBA history for all the where, why, how that we just discussed. But all that to the side, I kept thinking, well, this is not an interesting category because it's such a landslide. So if we took Luca off the board. Hi, Sacramento. Yes. Did you really just trade Deere and Fox for Zach Levine and like a sack of beans? Yes, and then trying to, and then are actively trying to trade Zach Levine and suing offseason. Like, I mean, come on.

And this is the thing, right? Like, Nico and Luca and that trade have saved a lot of asses from being just absolutely destroyed because that overshadows everything. There's nothing that's going to be more shocking this year, and there's not going to be a trade or a transaction of any kind that's going to be more scrutinized. Like even like oh I don't think that it was really that wise for the sons of buy out Bradley Beal and like have all this dead money on the cat yeah it's not great Dame Lillard dead money on the bucks. It's not great. Did you see what the Mavericks did?

So like Vivek Rada Divay is just sitting over there like what do you talk about? Dair and Fogg's like I don't know what you're talking about. Lou look look look Luca. Luca got traded. He'd a main one like look at look at look at look whatever look look look look right. So but if Luca's off the board maybe it's. the Zach Levine trade. If it was off the board, do you throw in, do you throw in, do you throw in the Pelicans draft day trade? That one was eyebrow raising, but probably not as catastrophic as trading your franchise point guard for a, you know, whatever, like,

however you want to define Zach Levine at this stage of his career. Like, he's a good player. I like Zach Levine. This is not to pick on Zach Levine, but that wasn't a good trade. And everything surrounding it was not great, right? circumstances that drove you to this in the first place after firing your coach and then eventually you fired the front office like everything's bad every decision making uh you know every significant decision made by the and then you come and then you come june and you see the guy that you didn't pick uh go take his team to the finals damn that you that you that yeah that you're traded yeah how long before subonis asks out that'll be the next thing i don't know man he's going to

half-packed uh... a's games and uh showing all the love So, man, don't go to, don't go to these games at that. They can't even sell out a fucking triple A. Fucking fuck the A's. Anyway, go ahead, Cliff. I'm sorry. I had nothing to do with him. Had nothing to do with Samoa's just wanted to say fuck the A's.

But, um, hey, man, stop, stop hating on the A's on. They played a little minor league stadium. Anyways, we'll see y'all good of a friend Roger Bell is once it's time for his son to commit to Temple University. Next category. Next category. Worst take of the year. Now, fellas, I'll give you some assistance on this one.

y'all had a rough time picking the Western Conference. The Western Conference was tough for y'all. Let me be clear. On the final prediction, Howard and Logan did get it correct, but Roger Bell, my guy. Sorry, brother, we had to do it to you. So let me just play it back real quick. Prediction time. Howard, who you got one in the series?

Clippers and six. Ooh. I'm not mad at that. I'm not mad at that. I was going to say Clippers in seven, but I'm not mad at Clippers and six. I'll go Clippers and seven. Who you got right? Yeah, I actually had Clippers in 6, too.

I'm with Howard. Lakers' Wolves. Stars win series. Usually you point to the team that has the best star on the floor. All due respect to Anthony Edwards, he's the third best player in the series. Oh. You know it's crazy.

Even after what you said, Howard, you kind of made me want to go the other way. Lakers in five. I'm taking the Lakers. Damn. All right, let's get right to Warriors Rockets. I've taken the Warriors at 7. My brain is telling me it goes in state, but something about Houston, the youth, the physicality, the athleticism, and what E-May is able to do.

Like, I'm taking them. Fuck it. I'm taking with it. Fuck it, huh? Let's go. Let's go. Damn. Rajabelle.

That's not mad at that, though. I'm not mad at that. Now, Howard, to be fair. Howard, to be fair, I did leave out your clip about the Warriors. it was just kind of long and extended, but you did pick the Warriors to win that series. So I'm going to be fair to you and said it. And it's shocking that I was like long and extended and rambling endlessly.

I never thought. I'm not mad at Roger's pick, though. I'm not mad at his big. I'm thinking back. I mean, I appreciate that, Logan. I listen, the Clippers,

what's the Clippers? What is my brain at summertime? It goes seven. It went seven. The Clippers got blown out in game seven. Why do we keep? Hold on. So that's not like crazy.

It ain't crazy. It's just the fact that you picked all three. I know, all three. That's tough. Like, I was hoping I was going to find Memphis in OKC and be like, you know what? Memphis might have a... I think I was OKC all the way through, though.

You did. The only thing that might save me is I was OKC all the way through. You did. Yo, wait, hold on real quick, bro. Why do we keep drinking the Clippers' Kool-Aid every fucking year to get disappointed? I'm just so disappointed in myself for that. That might be my worst take, just believing in the Clippers. Why do I do this?

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. But I just want to say, I just want to say, Logan, this could be. either year. Oh my. Okay. Okay, Howard Pina. All right, Howard Pina. Now, now, this, had we seen game one where these predictions, you know, like, like when these predictions, this was prior. Now, this is free for the series, this is the playoff predictions, yeah. Yeah, I'm remembering like it just took me a minute, but like that shit was a, that was a, that was either way. I'm not mad at any of those. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm not sorry. I think, I think in the midst of that whole entire thing there was Howard said that Anthony Edwards was the third best player in the series.

Damn. That was tough. And LeBron was getting clenched by Devin-chinson and Luca lost the whole series and Antman went crazy the whole series. I think that was. By the way. But he is? Buddy, but I'm not going to do it. But like to stop, stop, stop.

Braun, Lukea, and Aunt you say he's. And Aunt wound up being the best player in the series. He had a bad game one or two, I think. I think. I'm trying to show Howard some love, though, but like, okay, revision is history on that to some degree? But like, is he not? Like, would you say he's a better player than those two?

I think he's better. You go fuck us up and get us on a take. This might be on the take next year. You know what? Just to cover my ass, man. I mean, the fact that Anthony Edwards beat them, he's going to say Anthony Edwards is the best at all of them. I think Anthony Edwards is better than LeBron right now.

And I don't even think that's a big deal to say. It's tough, but I think LeBron's going to the year 23. Ant's definitely better than him. Of course. And he beat Luca. So, you know, it is what it is. He's got the crown now. He has the crown.

The timber was beat the Lakers. That's what happened. That wasn't how that works. Yeah, that ain't out of it. That's not how that works, though. No, we ain't going to do that. Just because you beat somebody to make you better than him. That's not how that works.

Okay. All right. Okay. Whatever. What a better series. What a better series. Okay. Listen, I've had better, I personally have had better series than people like across the course of my career. Never, ever, ever would you hear me say I'm a better player than some of them? Like, it just doesn't work like that. I'm going to channel my inner raza and say, fuck it.

Look at my clipper. Look at my singular clipper series from 06, the numbers from that series. and then throw them up against some of the Clippers numbers from that series. They're going to be right there, but I would never tell you I'm a better player than any of those dudes. Like, I'd never do that. It just don't work like that. And we won the series. What's the next question, Cliff? The next one is your favorite category.

This is the one you've been waiting for Logan. This is the one we've all been waiting for. As the kids are calling it, the crash out. Who won the crash out of the year? Now, Logan, I know you's doing some research yesterday on YouTube. You were looking at the best fights of the season. and I think I would go my number, my favorite crash out. He plays for the Detroit basketball.

Rainy Champ, baby. Rainy champ. My boy Isaiah Stewart gotten a little scuffle with the Minnesota Timberwolves and Devinchenzo and what's my rookie's name, Ron, whatever his name is Ron. I'm sorry, Howard. What's my guy's name Ron Holland? Holland, thank you. The young Ron Holland.

He got twisted up a little bit, got tossed up a little bit, got touched up a little bit, I touched up a little bit, but Isaiah Stewart wasn't having it, you know, walked off the court like a G, held up the Detroit basketball jersey. Rashid Wallace and Ben Wallace will be crying right about now watching Isaiah Stewart. So who are the crashouts at the year in your guys' minds? Yo, I'm going to start off first because I also picked Isaiah Stewart as my crash shot out of the year. But I want to use this to defend him, okay?

Because I was looking at some clips too, right? There's a because I think that I think because he's done such a, you know, if we had this award multiple years, he would have been a perennial crash out of the year, right? But I think this year it was more of a reputation thing, right? Like I'm thinking about a play against the Denver Nuggets on December 28th where he blocks Yokinj gets called for goaltending and Russell Westbrook just bates him into fighting.

Acts like he's about to fight him. And then points, looks at the ref and points to. Isaiah Stewart just and stitches on him. I can't, I can't, I can't co-sign that, right? That's one of his objections, right? Then Orlando, I think this was like, Orlando later in the season, he gets tied up with Wendell Carter.

Wendell Carter just takes him into the, magic bench and they called fucking Isaiah Stewart for a technical. It was BS. It was reputational, right? Okay, now mind you, there was a play in Indiana where he just Cole cock someone and gave him a shoulder bump. It gave Thomas Bryant a shoulder bump. Yep. That happened.

Right? Thomas Bryant tried to hit him back. Yeah. Yeah. So, okay, yeah, he decided that. That was supposed to happen. But by and large, when I'm looking at him on the fight compilations, the thing that I see is, he is getting baited and it's not all his fault.

Okay? Instead of like the 70, however many texts he got, probably should have got maybe four or five less. Okay? So crash out of your house to go to him. How about this? How about this? How about this shit?

Well, listen to all that bullshit. All of that bullshit. I'd hate to be your fucking son's coach when he gets to be 10, bro. Because you go be that goddamn dad coming up in there talking about, hey, man, what did Johnny do to him? How, but you go be that? If that's the rent you got that, he's getting baited into all of that? I'm going to be real.

I'm going to be real, Roger. I'm not going to do that. You know why? Why? Because I'm not trying to be that dad who's over here, like, yelling at the guy. I'm just, I'm high-fiving. I'm clapping. that's between you and your team and go be with your team bro i'm just doing this for the sake of

the sake of this exercise sir i'm just saying like i i i generally speaking if you crash out and i was a crash out like coming from a crash out it can't be that you're consistently getting baited into crashing out motherfucker at some point it's on the crash out at some point it ain't he's getting invaded. It's that that motherfucker will crash out. Wait, Roger, a question for you. Question for you. And that's something the audience

have always been wanting to know. I know I had wanted to know. When did you realize that you were a crash out or at least admitted it to yourself? And I looked in the mirror and was like, huh, I guess that's me, right? After like years of fighting it? Or did you just like already know what it was with you?

No, but like, I think to some degree, like, there's stigma attached to crash out. Like, like, as if it's a net. negative thing. Like, I don't give a fuck. Like, I always, like, that's what I did. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, I mean, you guys might not love it or disagree with it or someone else might look at it and be like, oh, that's wild. The same way I might look at someone and say, like, if they're confronted with something for them to just accept it and walk away, to me, that's wild. It's just the opposite reaction. Like, bro, I'm not with that dumb shit. So I'm going to call it out and I'm probably going to crash out where someone else might say, oh, dog, like, it's not even worth the, it's not even worth the other. I'm going to walk away. Like, it's, it's an equally wild thing for me to watch that, right? So, like, when you asked me, when did I realize it? Like, I realize what?

That's just what I do. Hey. Do you have a crash out of the year? No, I mean, I don't, I don't, I mean, I think his body of work speaks for itself. I was going to come on and say me because I will quite often on these pods, like, going to some sort of, like, rant. Um, I was gonna use myself, but like, no, like, I'm good. Me or him, either one.

But I'm good with it. Like, because, because I, like I told you before, like, well, you crash out enough, my fuckers leave you alone. Like, that's fair. They leave you alone because they don't know what, what is going to happen next. So, like, there was a lot of them Isaiah Stewart clips where people was like, were like John Adam while backing up, right? They were like, yeah, I don't know, but they like back it up.

Like, they don't fuck what I don't. To your point, they do not fuck with him. Beck, do you have a crash out of the year, sir? I don't even know if you knew when we did the categories that you would know what that meant. So I'm really curious to see. I was trying to interpret a little bit. It's possible that in our text chain, we're asked you for some clarifications on other categories. I maybe should have asked you for a definition of crash out.

I don't know exactly what you would have said. I want to give you an urban dictionary link and then said... Howard, I can give you an easy answer. Howard, I can give you an easy answer. Draymond Green. Just say that that's your crash out of the year. He can win it every next to the definition. Always a safe bet. You can win that every year.

Draymond Green. Just go with Draymond. No, I think, but I think he's had like the last three years straight, bro. I don't think he earned it this year. I don't think he earned it. I had some creative thought of, Come up, did you not see how many texts he got in the, and how many series did he play in the playoffs?

Well, I mean, last year, last year he had the extended, um, suspension. Logan, this may got like six texts in like eight games. Well, I'm just saying, no, I'm talking about body of work based on like previous years. Like this was a tame year for him. Yes. Yo, that's a tame year. It is.

By the death. When was his last ejection? In the playoffs, didn't he get ejected versus the Rockets? Or am I tripping? Cliff, it's always. a safe bet. Thank you. They're warriors.

No one's going to look at you side-eyed if you throw that name out there. There are warrior staffers right now that like have gone through some shit this season that no to us will ever know about. Listen to this podcast like, guess he is. What are you talking about? He won the award. Oh, man. Oh, man.

Does, does, does JJ Reddick storming out of a press conference qualify? as a crash out? That is 100% of a crashout. Absolutely. That is 100%. He's in the running. It seems like it'll be a safe bet for years to come. DeAndreux and JJ Redick?

He was newcomer of the year in the crash out category. Yeah. Jay Jays wound a little tight, right? That was never going to come off as you're sipping wine with LeBron on a podcast. But suddenly, like, you're having your substitution patterns questioned in a play. off game and it's, you know, I've just, God, quote the quote, are you saying that because I'm inexperienced and that was an experienced decision that I made? You think I'll talk to my assistants about substitutions? I didn't say that. Nobody said any of that. Nobody said that. That's a weird

assumption he said as he stormed out of the press conference. Oh, my God. Definitely crash out. Welcome to the party, JJ. Yes, sir. That was a moment. What's the next one? Jay J. J. Reddick and Diadre, and I can't wait for that one. Anyway, Oh, good. Don't let me, hey, bro, don't let me catch you at no goddamn 12-year-old practice saying saying it was somebody else's fault, though. Don't let me catch you doing that. Well, they're going to be on your AAU team, so you're probably going to be telling me from the stand, shut the fuck up. Oh, shit. Oh, man.

Let's get to the next one. They should have did this, though. Shut up. That's probably what's going to happen. Don't sit down. Don't sit with your mom in the stands, bro. Go ahead. Oh, man.

Oh, fuck. Let's get to this next one. This is near and dear to our show and our hearts. The Rajah Bell Memorial Defender of the Year. Now, Raja, you know, I got to go right to you for this one. It's his award. It's strictly his award. It's strictly your award.

This is, wow. Who is the defender of the year? Nobody. First of all, I like to thank God for blessing me with this talent without him. But I love these kids. I love all these kids like commitment things, bro, when they get up there and they're like, okay, where you're going to school? And they all launch into their speech.

But I digress. Um, the two, I got two, Dyson Daniels and Lou Dort, I think would be my two. And they're co. Like, I like watching both of them defend. They're, they're different. Um, they're both super disruptive, like a lot of deflections. They take a lot of, you know, when I defended, I didn't take a lot of risk. My, my strategy was more to like, be, be as solid as I could be in front of you, keep your body in front of mine and, and then make you shoot tough shots. I don't think I was as gifted, physically as these dudes where I could take a gamble at the ball and then still, you know, recover and contain the penetration. I think Lou Dort does that a little better than Dyson in

terms of like he might beat you from from point A to point B more often, but he's smaller and more compact, a little more, you know, muscled up. So he's fun to watch. But then Dyson's just so he keeps you recover because of that six, seven with seven foot wing span. Like he's never, out of a play. He's always taking a stab at the ball or getting in deflection. It's just, they're both really fun to watch. So those two for me, I mean, I can sit here and break them down, but I don't, those two for me would be the co-winners of the award. All right, what we got next, Cliff? Can I pause for a sec? Just one other quick thing?

What up? Because I wasn't sure if we all had to, because, you know, Logan's instructions, you know, were a little vague. I wasn't. It said the Rajabelle Memorial Defender of the year. I thought that meant that we were honoring Rod. Like, the award. Ward is named after him, but all of us were going to give our version of who deserves to be put on the Raja Bell level, right? Like, who deserves the praise of being, like, compared to Raja Bell defensively? And before I did that, I thought, what would be the definition of the Raja Bell defender? So I did what you do in the year 2025.

I asked Google Gemini. Oh, oh, shit. It's not sponsored at all. No, definitely not. And by the way, kids don't use AI, don't use chat GPT. It's all trash. But in this case, just let Beck do it. Just for fun.

If you're doing it for kicks, it's okay. According to Google Gemini, I asked what kind of defender was Raja Bell? This is what Google Gemini told me, Roger Bell. Oh, shit. It's much better. I was hoping, I was hoping this is going to get like, like, bizarre. This is actually pretty good. Raja Bell was known, according to Google Gemini, as a tough.

gritty and smart man-to-man defender. He was known for his strong on-ball defense and ability to guard the opposing team's best player. He was also a solid perimeter shooter and a reliable role player. How about that? Gemini likes you. Yeah, I'll take thanks, Gemini.

Thank you. So I'll throw that in there. Yeah, I'll take that. I mean, yeah, yeah, I think that's an accurate depiction of my defensive. Like, I was not overly gifted with, like, speed, strength, and all that shit. to be smart and couldn't take that's why i appreciate these two dudes though real talk because

people you know it just looks like someone's defending and unless you've tried to stay in front of someone and can real and can really you can't really appreciate how quickly you're out of position guarding someone that's as big and as strong and as fast as some of these guys so just take it a gamble at a ball takes your momentum out of you know the the normal course of where it should be and they're by you. And so I could never really afford to be taking swipes at a lot of balls like that, a lot of steals.

And these dudes do it, and then they're right back in front of you. It's like wild. Like that. Very, very interesting. So, of course, in Howard fashion, he doesn't pick an actual guy. He goes to AI,

but discourages kids to use AI, but then uses AI to define what Roger Bell is, but then doesn't get a player. Caruso, but. Okay. Coruso. There we go.

Maybe it's Gemini. Instead of, and now instead of going to gym, You could have just said, I was Caruso, and we could have saved you some time out, you know? Just saying, just saying, you know. Clips in a bag. He says as a host, I'm trying to help you out here, brother. Who's he working on time here?

What's up, guys? You know who it be, Joe, me. No, I got this nice little. We'll get to that. We'll get to that. I just want to extend my love and admiration for everybody over there, real ones. It's five years of keeping it real and holding it down. Logan, Roger, Howard.

You guys are amazing. The work you guys do is incredible. Congrats on five years. Shout to everybody who's works in that program. Kern, Guy, Cliff, Victoria, everybody behind the scenes that makes it happen. Keith on the socials. You guys are all amazing.

And honestly, this show holds a special place in my heart because I'm out here in wonderful San Diego covering Comic Conf with Ringiverse in part because Logan help put me on. You know what I mean? So, like, you know, like my success is your success,

brother, and so I cannot be happy for everybody, man. Five years, y'all got the COVID, man. Come on. Love y'all. Let's get to the final two categories. This one, the moment of the year. Now, Logan, you've seen quite a few moments this year at Golden State with Steph Howard.

You went to some moments in New York as the Knicks went down in Eastern Conference finals after they named some streets after a couple guys. And, Roger, you just mentioned a lot of great moments. You saw a lot of great moments this year from your sons who are probably going to be number one player in NFL and probably an all-star in the NBA. So would you guys go to the temple? Oh, yeah. Before, yes, before both of them should commit to Temple about. We got some anti-Ialmen coming in.

But anyways, the moment of the year, guys. What is the moment of the year for each one of you? Howard Beck, we are going to you first. I struggled with this because the first thing that popped in my head actually was not Tyrese Halliburton's game tying. thought it was momentarily game winning got to throw out the choke sign homage to Reggie Miller versus the Knicks but you know what

I think it might actually be Aaron Gordon like the game winning put back at the buzzer not as big not as the stakes weren't as big it's game four versus the clippers and it's you know a first round series or whatever but man we've never seen a game winning

put back dunk at the buzzer period regular season playoffs, anything. And the game would have gone to overtime because it was a tie game. So who knows what the outcome would have been. But the Nuggets win it and the Clippers could have. And if they did, they would have been up 3-1.

My prediction would have been right. And we would not have been humiliated by Cliffe. Mine too. Instead of Clippers losing seven. So I think that's it. I think Aaron Gordon's my moment of the year. Just with narrowly over Tyrese Halliburton at the Garden. Oh, Logan, what was your moment of the year to share?

No, you know, I could go Shea Gilgis Alexander in game four. I could go the night that Luca Donchich, the trade went down, that just a legitimate moment. I could go to the number of Tyrese Halliburton shots throughout the playoffs that defined the playoffs. One of the great playoffs that we've had over the last decade. but I'm not going to do that. I'm going to give it to the StudBuds live stream from WMBA All-Star Weekend. Shout out to the homies. I'm going to an entire other league here.

Yeah, we're just a hoops pod. And so I don't know if you guys were hip, but shout out to Courtney Williams and Attisha Howard from the Minnesota Links, who live streamed every moment of the WMBA All-Star game. And so you got monumental moments like Natisha Howard hitting on Angel Reese and getting curved like a Barry Zito pitch. Or you're seeing a wild moment between Rogers' fave, Megan Rapino, saying some things that, you know, we don't really have to repeat on this podcast to ask about, you know, somebody's activities, we shall say, on a live mic. Yeah, it was just a great time. or or Kelsey Plum taking a doing pulling a whole Raja and taking a whole shot of crown royal before going out to party. It was a great time. The stud buds are here to stay.

It was awesome. I had me, Cliff and Victoria were locked in all last weekend sending content to each other about the utter debauchery that was going on behind the seats of WMPA All-Star game. It was a fun thing. they come back and I hope that they live stream every second down the stretch of the WMBA season because they are amazing and shout out of the stud buds, man. That's my

moment of the year, that whole live stream for 72 hours was a whole moment that will be living in infamy. Studbubes. The stud butts? The studs buds. All right. Now, before we get the Rajas moment of the year, I just wanted to give an honorable mention

to Joellen B pushing a reporter. That just described the situation. I mean, what a moment. Roger Bell. That was a moment. That was quite the moment. It was something. Roger Bell, what was your favorite moment of the year?

No, I don't think I have. I think mine's like a compilation of moments. Okay. But Howard touched on them. I think Tyrese had just such a run of, of like, just game winning, game tying, like, clutch moments. Not just the Knicks, but like the Cleveland one where it's like, you know, they're just some wild. stuff that he was pulling out throughout the course of like even regular season, I think, through the playoffs. So like his moments, like game closing clutch moments for me were

probably the moments of the year. Shout out to Tyrese Halliburton for giving us the ultimate playoff content. Get well soon, brother. Now let's get to the final. Wait, wait, beforehand. Hold on. Hold on. What's up? We have one for you. Who is your Philly sports person of the year, sir? Now, do I have to be serious about it? Or do I got to give you? You know, beforehand? Do I got to you a real legitimate answer. Whatever you want to say somebody's name, but I don't want to say it incorrectly. So, you know what? The Philly Sports Person of the Year will be my guy, Seekoine Barkley.

You know, as you know, the Eagles are defensive Super Bowl champions. Saquan Barkley comes to the Eagles from that direct organization that is the New York Giants and, you know, finally comes home to PA and realizes, oh, there's actually a football team here that could actually protect me. and I can run through the hole and score a couple touchdowns and rush for 2,000 yards on top of that. So Sequin Barclay, salute to you, my brother. You did some wild things this off season, but respect for me. Philly sports person here for me.

Hey, can I give an honorable mention even though like it's Cliffs category to Gilly? Oh, yeah. Shout to Gilly. I mean, he's not sports, but he is sports. No, no, no. Gilly is sports. He was like, he is. Gilly is whatever he wants to be.

Straight out. Straight out. Straight out. He'll be on the straight-out. Gilly, Gilly will race people in Detroit. Gilly be playing football. He'd be going to his big three all-star games. He'll tell Paul George to his face that he ain't been shit since he's going to the

Sixers uniform. He hooped to his face. Jeff Teague and him came to the city. He hoop with them. Yeah, Gilly allegedly, allegedly he said he busted P.J. Tucker's ass in a run. That's what he said. And PJ Tucker was picked up the next week. This is allegedly.

This is what Gilly said. He said he cooked him. He said he cooked them. And, and, and. he helped put some publishing checks in two shorts pockets. So, you know, shout out of the Gilly for sure. Shout out of the game. Hopefully, I'm going to catch him at the runs this summer of my game.

My man gave at St. Joe. Shout out to Gabe. Anyways, let's get to the final category here. It is the real one of the year. Fellas, who wants to start it off? Who wants to give us the real one of the year? You know, Howard, how about you started off again? Did the most research.

Yeah, do we? Did we drop a category there? Who won the year? We had to. We saved some time here, brother. Oh, all right. All right. That's fine.

Time saving is good. There are a lot of directions we could go here, guys. Real one of the year. What does it mean to be a real one anyway? How real is real? How real is too real? When keeping it real goes wrong. We'll keep it a real go.

So here's the thing. Because there was some serious going wrong of keeping it real this year. Like maybe I don't know Saying at a press conference Into a microphone and several cameras I knew Luca was popular I didn't realize how popular he was You just said that you didn't want to kick him down

I'm just saying it's I'm just saying it's in the running But I also thought about How real Jimmy Butler kept it in Miami Just so that he could make everybody so uncomfortable That he got what he wanted And got himself traded to the Warriors.

Like, that's, we may not like it. Heat fans certainly didn't like it. The Heat as a franchise and many, many people there did not like it. But if we're talking about who kept it really, really real and it impacted the NBA season, Jimmy Butler was true to himself, through it all. Good bad or otherwise, we don't have to like it. Jimmy Butler was real as shit. And he got what he needed.

He got what he wanted. He got traded to the Warriors and got a nice fat extension. So, yeah, well, we could let the go. off the hook for a really inadvisable press conference admission and hand it to Jimmy. How about that? Yo, I really thought you was going to give

I really thought you were going to give Nico Harrison ruined a year and I was kind of hoping you would. I mean, there's a case to be made for that. If we're saying, yeah, that was pretty, I thought he was going to do it. All of the shit. Like, yeah. Anyway, go ahead. Logan, you go. Is it, okay.

I was going to go with Tyrese Halliburton, man. You know, to go into the garden the way that he has done. And also, like, let's not act like the Pacers were some, like, was a shoe in to go in the finals. Quite the contrary. Like, we didn't think that they were even remotely, like, close to getting there. And then they just kept winning and kept winning. And Tyrese say, well, everything that you want to say about him, man. But he pushes teams towards winning.

This is what it is. And you've seen what he does. You see why Sacramento have continued to be ill-advised with a decision-making over the years. But I remember when he got traded and I was like, you just don't trade people like Tyrese Hallibird. I don't know what he's going to be necessarily. But those are the guys you want to keep in your building as much as you can. And you've seen just how he can galvanize a group. And I feel so bad for him and his Achilles.

But the run that he went on throughout this postseason, you know, the stats, it's going to be one of those postseason where it was like you had to be there to see it for him. but the people that saw it were like, no, he was real. He was real. So I'm going to give it to Tyrese Halliburton. Real one of the year. There you go. Also, real one for going out there and playing with that injury, dog. Like, that's, it paid the ultimate price.

But he was thugging it out. So I can see that. My real one, I'm going to give it to SGA, just because, you know, he just gets better and better. He's the, you know, the best scorer in the league, won the championship. It wasn't easy. had to figure out some things like coming into the playoffs the narrative was maybe not the scariest number one seed right and if you could grab them you wouldn't be afraid because they weren't

really experienced in that regard but they figured it out they got it done and he had he had some great moments he struggled in a in a couple games but he figured it out so uh i think you win an NBA championship you go wire to wire like like okay see did they deserve to have somebody on a podium somewhere right so real one of the year i'll give the sGA other season and finals MVP. No doubt. A rare achievement. I love him.

I love him as the real one of the year. I love the Halliburton pick to Logan. There was a long stretch there where until, like when whoever wins the championship, like they become the story, right? You are the story. But right up until Tyrese goes down, you can say Tyrese Halliburton was the story of the postseason. Like a lot of other teams, you know, whatever. They had their successes, failures, whatever.

Like there's all these storylines of the post season. Tyresearch Halliburton was the story of the postseason for a good like six, seven week stretch there. And he was awesome. And it sucks that we don't get to see him next season. It does suck. And I just sprung into my mind. The real, real one, right? So the real real one is his daddy running up on guys.

Wait, was that a crashout? That was a crashout. That is a crashout. Wait, hold on. Hold on. Is this like what you got? Like, you won all the awards? Hold on. Hold on. We were neglecting one crash out of the year.

Roger Bell at his son's game talking mad shit getting caught on camera. No doubt. No doubt. But I wasn't crashed out. I mean, I don't, I don't know if I was crashed out. You said, yeah, yeah. Take that shit. Yeah. Well, you said it's other parents. Roger, you just pat your chest, you know. Like, that was crazy. You said, fuck out of here to some other parents. I did. Okay. But like I was meeting energy with energy. When I call you a 12 years, when I call you a 12 years saying that I did that shit,

are you see me on video doing that shit? No, but listen. It's all relative, dog. If you can't tell a crash out what, like, I know when I crash out. Like, that's benign. Like, that is not a crash out for me, though. That's fair. That's right of the shit. That's not even, hey, Roger, that's not even the biggest crash you ever had on the

camera. I'll tell you a story. You want to hear a crash out story? Yes. Nobody. So we're playing in like a seventh grade basketball tournament. We're beating a team, right? Locally.

This coach goes and finds four kids that are kind of hanging around the gym that are playing on other teams and brings them over at his bench, suits them up and puts them in the game against us. I'm asking the people that are running the tournament, like, yo, what the fuck is going on? How is this even possible? Like, what is happening right now? They don't control it.

So I grabbed the jersey off of a kid on my bench. It was like a youth medium, barely fit me, pulled that shit on, got it all snuck, and walked out onto the court and said, let's who? That's a crash out. Yo, please tell me that that's a lie, yo. That's not a lie. But I had to, but like, look, bro, it was so absurd to me that you're just grabbing. 15 year olds to play my seven graders that I was cool.

I was like, let's hoot. And then everybody was like, oh, this is addict. This is crazy. We can't do that. I'm like, exactly. This is crazy, bro. Roger, you would have been fucked up that night if you would have hooped. The game the boys 20.

I don't think you would have been able to walk for the next week, dog. You would have was killed. But it highlighted the absurdity of that. I'm like, yo, yeah, so it's absurd that I'm out here as a 45-year-old. But ain't nobody's tripping about the 315-year-olds that you're rolling out to try to beat us. So sit them down. I'll sit down. That's a crash out. What? I can't believe what I just heard. Incredible. That's awesome. That's great stuff. Is that on film?

Luckily, it's not on film. Fuck. Oh, man. God damn it. Oh, man. Okay. All right. All right. Oh, shit. All right. I just want to, before we close out, man, I just want to say, yeah, real, real one of the year, for real, for real, is all the real ones out there worldwide, dog. No, always held this down. Roger, I was at an airport. I was at Vegas Air Force. I was at Vegas airport leaving summer league and i don't know if you listened to the last episode but we were talking about how you fucking your airport shenanigans on the podcast right my airport shenanigans your inability to rent a car correctly yeah and yeah yes anyway i didn't listen what happened

what i do well we were roasting you basically because you didn't really give proper respect to atlanta airport um and and you let yourself and you let yourself gets stuck in that rental car line, which like after all these years of traveling, you should know better. Yeah, but anyway, the point is, so somebody hit, he didn't give me his name, but he had a European accent. And I'm walking the board back to the Bay Area. And he, somebody runs up on me. And I'm like, wait, hold on. What's, what's going on here? You over here running up on me. But somebody like was like, yo, man, are you Logan Murdoch? And I'm like, yes. And he's like, yo, man, I'm listening to your podcast right now. And it's so crazy because you're at an airport. And And we're at the part where we're talking about Rosabee fucked up at the airport. This is crazy. So shout out to all the real ones who like even come up on us, man.

Like there's so many anecdotes of like how y'all show up. I remember the homie when I was walking near my crib and he was in a like maybe like a 04 bins and he was like, hey, like he was at a stopline. It's like, hey, you Logan Murdoch? And I'm like scared. I'm like, wait, yeah, maybe. Yes. What's up?

He was like, I like your shit. And I'm like, for show, bro. Thank you, man. And then drove off. I was like, oh, shit. But even new, even new people, who scared his living hell out of me. You know, I've got along directions. Yeah.

But yeah, no, man, it's been five years. Can't wait to do it even more. It's crazy to just even think about how far we've come. Yeah, man. If I say anymore, I'm a choke up. But thank you guys so much for holding down. We'll be back in the fall. Any last words, guys, for 20-25, really?

episode before we get to Sue? I will. I will. I had fucking booked Hertz rental car, bro. I had it. I was curbside. I don't do the lines in Atlanta. I had to cancel it because Ty got sick.

And then when I went to rebook, there were no more cars. Oh, man. Okay. All right. Three weeks later, we get the alibi. Yeah. All right. Okay.

Any last words, Howard? No, listen, you shouted out the real ones, our audience, the people who tune us in every week. I mean, it's incredible. It's incredible. And we got to see it and feel it in San Francisco at the live show. That was one of my highlights of the year. It was awesome. So, yes, thank you to everybody who's been listening.

Shout out, shout out to my pal, Joanne Larson, who's been a real one loyalist from the beginning, shooting us notes all the time. She tried to meet you one of those days there in Sacramento, Logan, but you were too busy running around the arena. Big-time to her. Just like Logan. I think she was, and she had course, I see. She was big time of me. Go ahead.

Yeah, she might have been too big time that night. I couldn't get to her. Shout out to all the listeners, and thank you, all of you, including the guy who randomly stopped me at the smoothie bar at the hotel in Vegas when I was a summer league. And I've gotten used to the idea that occasionally somebody recognizes us from, like, social media. But he goes, are you Howard Beck?

And I did, I was like, wait, oh, what? And he goes, I recognized your voice. Oh, wow. Whoa. Like that was all the level. And so, yeah, real ones listener right there. So there you go. That was awesome.

All jokes aside, I should have done better in Atlanta. But I will follow you guys. There are a lot of, I have a lot of those stories too. You guys told some of them on air. And then I've got a lot of people that are in my friend circle people just from, from my past that I've known since like middle. school and stuff like that that will will randomly reference real ones and how much they love it. And you wouldn't even like, you wouldn't even know that these people are tapped in like

that. So I just second everything and third, everything you guys just said. It's pretty cool. It's a pretty cool thing, right? Logan, like I said on the air, from where we started from what we like, it really is a pretty cool thing. Every time it happens to me, it's not lost on me. So I was second all that. All right. Yeah, well, man, feelings mutual. I love all you guys. We got, I would could talk even more about this. So we got Howard has to go back to his day job, side job, real job. I don't know. Anyways, uh, all the shit.

Wait, wait. Wait, before we go off, one of the categories, I don't know, put it wherever you want. Post, put put it in. Fuck, we have Ben Stiller on the fucking pop, bro. That's my moment. Like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm not pandering here. Like, for me, I'm telling you, dog.

That's like one of my. No. That's big. That was real deal. No. That's legend. No. We need to, that's not it.

That's not it. That's not. in pose that or do something. That is actually the fucking moment. What the fuck? Anywhere you want. Yeah. Roger.

What the fuck did that happen? What in the actual? Yes. Dude, I don't know. How the fuck did that happen, bro? I don't know. We all botched this so badly.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's all that we did botch it. But I'm like, how the fuck did he come on the show? I'm still like, I don't, I still don't know how that happened. Shout out. Y'all, y'all go watch Happy Gilmore, too. Okay, just for the streets. You know what I mean?

Go watch that. All right. All right. Go peep it. All right. All right. There we go, man. Shout out Ben Stiller.

Shout out to all the homies. And we got, she earned it three-timer. Sue, mother fucking third next. Okay. And we are back with Hall of Famer. You know her from the Seattle Storm between two birds. And she has two podcasts that are doing really good.

things and a touch more. And Bird's Eye View, which you've just started. Hello, Sue Bird. How are you doing? It's going on. Quite an evolution. Yeah. Yeah. Your girl's busy. Yeah. Did you plan this? Like, was this, where you were, how did, how was retirement? Like, I feel like every time you come on here, like retirement is always like a question that I have for you, how you're getting through retirement. By all it counts. It seems like you've done this the right way. Like, did you plan all of this? I'm going to be a media mogul. Yeah. Have I done it the right way? Yeah, I think I'm just, I'm all about, you know, all the cliches, getting out of your comfort zone, trying new things, seeing what sticks. But it's been good.

It's been good. None of it hasn't been necessarily, like, planned out. Like, there hasn't been some blueprint I've been following. It really has just been like, oh, what do I like doing? Let me keep doing that. And then, oh, we're podcasting. Okay, I kind of like this. Maybe, you know, there's not one that's just doing, you know, interviews with W&B players.

Let me try that. Okay, I kind of like it. I'll keep doing it. It's kind of been like that. How was retirement, like, when you're playing, you're looking ahead at it. I talked to Megan about this when she was going through it. And she had like this real, like, it felt like for her, like, idealistic view of what retirement was going to be. I'm going to go to Italy. I'm going to go here. And you kind of actually did that when you retire. Like, what is the evolution from, I'm going like, like the last few months of your career to where we are now? Like, are you like, what did you think it was going to?

happen versus like where you've evolved into? Well, I was kind of lucky, like different from Megan. I mean, it was good and bad. So I retired the year before Megan. So it kind of put me in this like holding pattern. I was like waiting for her, you know, and I was still like tethered a little bit to this like sports schedule. Right. So if Megan's Seattle rain season was starting and, you know, it's like March April, I'm obviously going to be living out in Seattle with her. You know, when if she has a national team, she goes to the World Cup in New Zealand. Like, I'm booking my flight to New Zealand. So I was kind of like tethered to this thing.

So that part I didn't love, but at the same time, like, it gave me, I was like, it was like I was on borrowed time. Like, I couldn't really make any big plans. I couldn't do any, you know, big vacations because she couldn't come. So I was just kind of like able to also just chill and kind of like take my time as I like got into this what is now like a fully formed retirement. So that was really, that was kind of nice. It was a nice little byproduct in that first year.

tried some new things. I did Seuss Places, which is a part of like the Payton's Places family. That was in that year. So I got to try a bunch of different stuff. So stayed busy, but not like crazy. And then in year two and three, which I'm now in year three of my retirement, now it's like full steam ahead. Yeah. Is there, is there a goal that you want to have in your media career right now? Is there a place or are you just kind of going with the vibes and the vibes just happened to have taken you to podcasting? Like where are you at right now with the media landscape and where you fit into it at this point? Yeah, it's pretty much been vibes with a little bit of like understanding that women's basketball is like blowing up. I have this whole career to pull from, all its experience to pull from, like super knowledgeable. I have all the historical knowledge because I literally lived it.

And understanding that like to your point, the media landscape like needs some of that. I really look at it now as like this ecosystem. It's always been that way on the men's side, right? You have everybody from, you know, the ones that are going to give you the hot takes to like the talking heads every day to the insiders who are like, you know, in the mud with teams, like everything in between. And now players have their own platforms. And for women's basketball, like that's still building.

But when the corner turned and it really blew up, we didn't have enough of the nuance. We didn't have enough of the people like myself. like a Candice Parker. I mean, the list goes on. Like, even the people who have been following teams, they didn't have large enough platforms. So now I'm like, okay, like, it was kind of leading this direction, but I feel like as far as the ecosystem goes,

like we need these types of voices. That's funny. Like you have the bird's eye view, which I love, it seems like it's, you know, you're the OG right now, right? You're the person that is giving advice. I wonder, like, how, what kind of OG are you right now? Are you, like, because I know that, you're obviously great with the Caitlin page, you've taken a lot of these women under your wing.

But are you the type that is, are you texting like Caitlin after a game? Like, yo, you should have did this in like the three minute mark of the third quarter. Or like, are you hitting page like, yo, I saw this move? Like, how are you approaching this elder statesman role that you've kind of taken on since you've retired? It seems. Man, yeah. O.G. I'm not like a double OG.

I'm just an OG. I'm not like the Cheryl Swoops case of Leslie O.G. They're my OGs. Okay. No, I'm not texting anybody after a game. What are you crazy? If I was a player, I'd be like, block that number. No, I kind of just try to make myself, like, make it known to anybody.

Like, you want to talk? Anything you want to talk about? You want to talk about the actual game? You want to talk about, like, the life of a pro athlete. You know, it's always great to learn through other people's experiences. But I always make sure they know, like, it's not going to be, I'm not talking to anybody. to try to make it the same.

Like you've got to like do your own thing, but like to pull from other people's experiences, I always found value in that. I always was down to listen to people talk. So I just try to make myself available. And then it's really, you know, from there you build a relationship. But I think the player, whoever that is, also has to want that, you know? Like you want it to be like a good vibe there. So no, definitely no text after the game.

That'd be crazy. All right. Like what are you, what advice do you give for any of them? you were a star in a different age, right? And this is just a, this is a completely different, even level of stardom for even the two I just mentioned, but also like whoever you are mentoring at this point. What do you see as the differences in the similarities between when you were a star versus when a Caitlin or a page or a juju coming along or an angel Reese? What are the differences that you've seen in how they have to maneuver through this new WMBA?

Oh, I mean, there's so much of it that I can't relate to. You know, I don't think like Twitter and Instagram really became a thing until I was in my like, I don't know, early 30s, maybe late 20s, early 30s. I mean, God, I don't even think we had text messaging until like my second or third year in the WMBA, which is crazy. I think the iPhone, the iPhone came out. I was already in like year five or six. But this is, it's a totally different world.

So in some ways, I can't relate directly in that I didn't have to deal with this as a, you know, it's called a 21 year old. I didn't have to do with any of this at that age. But I had to do with it a little bit later in my career. So I have like a taste. I have an understanding. I obviously live in the world. So I like, I see it.

I'm now a podcaster. Oh, oh, I see it even more in podcasting. People like to like to take your words in rum with them. But the other part of the experience is like the actual playing. It's the actual life of it. I don't think, I think social media does make the highs feel higher and the lows lower. But there's still lessons that. I think all of us who played understand about those highs and lows. So, you know, at the same time,

I've always believed that, you know, if you're an athlete and you're trying to, you know, win championships, you're trying to get better as a player, you're trying to build a brand, you're trying to be a successful business person, you still do have to, back to the cliches, keep the main thing, the main thing. You know, when that is going right, like when you know you're prepared, you're checking all the boxes on the basketball court, like for yourself, anything else, the highs and the lows, don't feel as high or as low, right? Forget social media for a second, but they just don't because you have, that's the things you can control. So those are like just some of the messages. I remember a few years ago, I was interviewing Jermann about

his four way into podcasting and being a media person. And I asked him why he wanted to do that. And he said similar to you, right, like to get the nuance into the game. And he was kind of talking about it like you know how jermont is like as a crusade for the the the common player and things like that but i think it was it was um it's the same idea as what you have but it's a different landscape with the NBA right like you're you're definitely like growing um a platform as the league is growing in a different way than the NBA is but like I guess my question is like what are we missing right now as uh as from a coverage standpoint on a WNBA right now talk about the nuance that I think we're missing from someone that played in the game.

If you talk about the discourse that we see, I can think it's wild, you know it's wild. In a utopian world, what is the perfect way that we look at this game that is played right now in the W? Yeah, I actually think what happened at WMBA All-Star is like the perfect entry point or perfect way to start answering this question. And I feel like a lot of the narratives and the conversation around the league has just been about, you know, all the negative and like how certain players don't like certain players and how they don't get along or whatever it is. And I think you saw it all star. I mean, thank you to the stud buds for being honest. But you saw. I was just, hold on, Sue.

I was, you said it first, but I really want to give flowers with the stud buds because, I mean, Victoria is on the line right now and Cliff are producers. And literally all this weekend was like sharing stud bud content. And somehow, Sue, you and Meg had one of the wildest stud bud moments, which I was, no, you were there. You were there. I was left speechless, though. I was left speechless. I was like, wow, she really just went for it. Yeah, I mean, we both know Megan, and that's what Megan does.

Megan says some wild shit. But the funniest thing, and we'll get back to the point, the funniest thing about that moment was that Megan whispered into Natasha's ear where the mic was. So she was whispering, and we heard everything. Wait, do you want to know the best part about that? This is the best part about that. She didn't even know. So it was like the next day and we're talking about it, whatever comes up. And I was like, oh, something, something like, you know, how you whispered.

She was like, what do you mean? So she didn't, fairness to Megan, she's not on social media like all that often. Like, she's really not. Especially post-retirement. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, she has like a really, she's, I'm like, I go to her advice on that. She's a great relationship with it. And I was like, oh, my God, you don't even know.

I was like, I was like, you went to whisper. and I explained the whole thing and she was like, no way. And then I played it for her. I was like, you were even loud. Your whisper was louder than the conversation was. Best part? She didn't even know. Did you know in the moment that this was happening?

Did you know the stu- No, no, no, no, but I saw the clip. Okay. No, there was no way to know. What was your favorite? Stud-bud moment aside from YouTube, what was your faith? My personally one, I mean, that's usually got curved.

That was funny by Angel. That was hilarious. What was the other one? when Kelsey took the swig of the crown. That was a legendary moment in W history. It just didn't even like blink. There are a few others. But what were your favorite moments from the stud buds?

Honestly, I think the way they hyped Kathy up and they had Kathy, you know, they were doing some dances. They were they were doing, you know, she was talking about, tell us what you got on, girl. Like there was a little bit of that. There was like, what are you wearing? And then later in the night they had her dancing, I think that might have been my favorite by far. And I think it was, I forget who said this recently. Maybe Kelly O'Hara was like, they were dancing with Kathy one night and in a CBA negotiation the next, the next morning. And I was like, that, if that's not stud buds, I don't know what is.

It was, it was amazing. Yeah. It's more a balance, right? Like, we have the U and then we have the stud buds who I can't wait to see what they evolve into. But like, where are we as a media entity with the W right now? Yeah. No, what I was more so saying was like what was great about. All-Star game. The stud buds played a huge role, but you had like sit and TP doing interviews.

And I think this particular All-Star game gave a lot of people like, you know, the, you know, the curtain gets pulled back. They get to kind of see inside the parties, inside the locker room, like the different moments and just how much of a vibe it is and just how everybody gets along and how like it's so much fun and how it's pretty much like that, I would say, in almost every sports league. You see it, we've seen it on the men's side time and time again, but then when they go on the court and they compete, it's nobody, nobody gets like over, you know, dramatic about it. If there's, you know, a tough moment in a game or even if like a little bit of a shoving thing, a match, you know, pops off. Nobody overthinks it. And I think in our league, there's been a lot

of overthinking. So I think it was great that this WMA All Star, they really showcase like, this is how it actually is. And then, yeah, we go out there and we compete. And then when we come off the court, we're like, but where do you want to go to dinner? And that's what it is. That's always been what it is. I've been saying for years to all my W homies that like you guys, more specifically you, the W needs a reality show. And we got it with the stud buds, right?

Yeah. How close was that to like real W life that you've seen throughout the years? I'm pretty close. Okay. Yeah, like they're there. Listen, those two are like their own unique personalities, their own unique personalities, their own unique friendship. But I think the stuff that was really like true to form was like going out,

partying, like having a good time, dancing, joking around with each other. You know what I mean? Like being in those environments together and enjoying each other's company, having a good time. Like that was 100% accurate. And then those two like bring their own flavor. It felt like. But that's what it felt like. That's what it seemed like from my experience.

Yeah. From my experience of knowing. Yeah, it was like that, right? Yeah, Loki. Low-key happy there weren't camera phones back then. Lo-key happy there wasn't 72-hour Twitch streams. No. It's, by the way, it's not like we're going crazy.

We're just like, for lack of a better, like normal people, having a good time. I was very jealous. I'm talking to my editors about sending me to WMBA All-Star next year. As, you know, I'm trying to go. So let's zoom out from WMBA All-Star in general. Like this specific one felt like a moment. Right. Like I've watched W.

All-Star Games from afar for the last few years. We've referenced the stud buds. We've referenced, you know, you've been interviewing people. But it felt like a lot of things came together at once. What do you think that this, you know, a few days out? What do you think that this meant for the W? Based on this trajectory, it's going right now. Yeah, I do think it was a moment, you know.

I think anybody who is even, like, remotely connected to the W&B, you couldn't open your social media without it just being flooded with All-Star content, right? And that's usually what you experience, you know, as an example when it's the NBA All-Star game, just content, content, whether it was the Sudbud's or like the Skills Challenge, a three-point contest, like so on and so forth. So it felt big. It was big. I was there. It was big. I think it's been like building to this moment. Last year's All-Star game had felt big as well. It was very much like a glimpse into the future. the big difference was it was an actual game because the Olympic team was together

and they were like getting ready to go. So they were like actually a team. The All-Stars, they were probably just chilling even though they ended up winning. But that had a different vibe to it. Whereas this one, this one was just like Phoenix last year, only it was more just celebration, right?

Like all of it. Every activity, every activation. I already mentioned Friday night, then Saturday the game. It was all a big celebration. and I don't know, I think we got to show, like, what was real. I think they all got to show, like, what's real in the WMBA as opposed to, like, narratives that are out there, conversations that people like to pick up on.

This is really what the WNBA is. What was your favorite moment? You know, I've never... Other than your boo, like, out here, Wallying. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Friday night, I had never seen, you know, Sabrina famously went against Steph, had a great three-point contest against him. Also famously has the highest score with like 37. But I didn't see either of those lives. So to be in the building, I think the, you know, she hit 30 and there was a

moment where she hit like 10 or 11 in a row and to like actually feel that energy was was pretty dope. But then also the skills challenge. Like, and I'm not just saying that like every single person went hard. Like they were trying. It wasn't just like too cool for school. And so I think it really made for like a really fun show. The crowd was great. It was basically, you know, sold out, really good performers. Like, they just did a really good job overall on Friday night, I thought. What I do want to talk to you about is unrivaled and just the growth of the, the offseason, right? Like, I think you guys are doing it right. Like, we've seen with men's sports, like having an offseason league just doesn't work for them. And you guys have been able to make it

work. I'm thinking about like the USFL, right? And the UFO back in the day, right? Where It just hasn't been able to compete with the other league, but you guys have been able to do that. We all know that, you know, the W and players are trying to make more bread and supplement a lot of income and the unrivaled is doing that. A.U is doing that as well. But from a playing standpoint and game standpoint, to have a specific type of offseason seems like it would help, you know, the W product in women's basketball in general. How does a player balance playing both? leagues and how can this model sustain as works right? I know the W is trying to get more games and you guys are trying to build the business of the unrivaled. How does how do you balance that as a

player in the modern game? As of right now, the WMBA season, you know, this year, I think we're playing the most games ever at 44, but it's still like, you know, you start in like May goes to like October. That's a lot of time. Like that's a lot of time in the in-between. And, you know, obviously everybody knows we all used to go overseas. Some people still go overseas. It's still for some people, like, the right opportunity, the right money. And the beauty of it is you stay in shape. The beauty of it is, you know what I mean?

Like you would go over there and you'd be practicing, you'd be staying in shape, you'd be in game shape, you'd be in game rhythm, you'd come right back. But obviously the hard part was that that was becoming like a year-round thing. And I think now with unrivaled, with athlete unlimited, you just have options, right? Every player can choose what's best for them. For some, it's going to be to continue to go overseas. For others, and we saw a lot of them choose unrivaled. For others, it's like, hey, I get some time off, right? Like unrivaled last year, I don't think it started until like early January, mid-January.

Season ends, like October-ish, you get some time off, you get time to yourself, time to maybe rest your body, maybe you got an injury, whatever the case. Then you show up, you play for the, whatever it was, like two and a half months. And then you even get like a tiny bit of time before the WMBA starts. But in those two and a half months, you get to get back in game shape. You get to work on your game. So the thing about overseas is you don't always get to have the player development time, like the you time, right?

Like you and a coach where you get to work on something. I know they've done a really good job at unrivaled, like making that a focal point. And that's so important. And what's interesting is you really have seen it. A lot of the players who played in unrival, are having great years this year. So it's a nice balance. And I think from a player standpoint, it's really not hard.

It's actually a perfect, it fits perfectly in the calendar. You get a little bit of all that you need. And then come WMBA season, you're ready to go. Yeah. Like, it was a lot of fun. Why was a three-on-three model? So why was that so important for this winter? I'm not sure.

I think it's just something that unrivaled, like, saw as like a business opportunity. It is growing. It's an Olympic sport now. you know, maybe, I actually don't know the answer. I'm not like in the rooms for unrival. I'm not an investor and unrivaled. So it's like, I think maybe, maybe, I don't know that it's not as taxing as five on five, but I think it was a business model that they saw a lot of potential in.

That would be my guess. So like I'm in the bay right now and right in the back with the Valkyries. And it feels like, you know, this is, this team has been obviously really good. But what I want to ask, though, is it feels like there's been an infiltration. They are going full on. We're going to go overseas. We're going to try to look, scour the world for talent. Even if we got a stash in people, we're going to do it.

We're going to, like, what? Not necessarily what do you think of that model, but how do you feel the W is going to go even more international? Do you see other teams emulating that model? And do you see that, what does the W look like in five years when it comes to that? Yeah. It's so fascinating seeing that team on a day. day basis, try that. Well, first of all, the WBA has always been more than welcoming to international players. The issue was, you know, why did we go over to Europe? Because they were

paying more money. So a lot of these European players, you know, whether it's the Euroleague season, or there's some other leagues as well, but the top league is Euroleague, whether they were just getting enough there or it didn't make sense to play year-round and go to the WMBA, be away from home. Sometimes it had to do with like national team commitments for some of these players. So there's a variety of reasons why not every single European player, specifically Europe, right? Australia, we've always had players come over. Brazil, we've always had players come up. So specific to Europe, it didn't always make sense for them, like from a money and time perspective. But now that the money is increasing to answer like your last question, yeah, in five years,

if the WMBA CBA turns out the way we all hope for it to turn out, which is players are getting paid. Obviously the media deal is coming in. So, you know, I think like arrows point towards that, really just given the media deal alone, I think it's going to be more attractive for European players to want to come over here. It's already the best league.

It's the best competition. And I think it was the money part that was really the deterrent for them. When you look at Golden State, what I think was really smart by them was they were in a position where they're an expansion team. You know what I mean? Like they're just trying, you know, they're going to pick the players in the expansion draft, which they did a great job there.

But then they, I think in a really smart way, just decided to get, like, creative with it. Like, what European players can we get to come over here to, like, build with? And a lot of the players they got, with the exception of, like, I don't know, maybe like one or two are, like, vet players, like players that have been around. Like, whether, you know, not all of them had played in the W&B before, but some of them had. But a lot of them are like vets on their national team, or at least have like three, four, five years under their belt. They're vets in EuroLeaks.

So these are like, you know, substantial players who have really like made a mark. And now they're going to come over here and help build, build a foundation, build the culture. And that's what I think was really smart by the Valkyries to kind of go that European route. Plus they're just tough, man. European players, they just, they don't give an F and they're just like tough. So I think it was really smart. I want to get to one of your homies.

we talked about retirement earlier. How are you coaching Diana through retirement? Is it like, I know you're coaching her. No, she's doing great. Is she doing good? Is she doing better than you are, do you think? Who's to say? I think she's doing great though.

Like, you know, she's, you know, Penny. She's got her two kids. I think she's really been trying to like focus on them. Because obviously as an athlete, you just missed time. So a lot of times spent with the family. But I don't know, the thing about D is she like, really moves in silence in a lot of ways. She wasn't like that on the court. On the court, she couldn't have been louder. You know what I mean? Like you never, you can't take your eyes

off her when you're watching her play. But off the court, you know, from like a business standpoint, from like thinking ahead, she really moves in silence. So if you haven't heard from her in a while, it means something's on. Something's coming. You know, it just got announced recently. Her documentary is coming out. I think like August 7th or something. So there's a plug for that. I'm looking forward to watching it. So she's always got some. something on the horizon. You know, you're going to see her again for sure. Did you coach her the last, like, what, like, tell me how the decision making happened from your end of, like, her retirement. Did you tell her how to do it? Like, how did that come about? Did you find out, like, the rest of

us? Like, how did that? Basically. Basically. To know D was to know she wasn't going to be, like, reaching out. Okay. But like, you know, it's like when you know her, it's like, this is what it is. she's, she's, yeah, she's unique in that way. It's like, again, like the way she played, you might think different, but she's actually got like a, I don't know, like a private, low key part to her too. So, yeah, I want to say that Lindsay, you know, who reps, she kind of reached out and was like, hey, they're going to announce her retirement next week. We would love for you to be a part of the article that's going to do it.

And I was like, okay, should I just wait for her to tell me or just like, do the article? Like, how does this work? But then she came out here to New York. I'm in New York right now. She came out to New York. She was making her rounds on like, Good Morning America, went on the view. And like, of course, she came over. We spent time.

We grabbed dinner. Like her whole family, me and Megan. And like that right there, like that's what, he wants to like break bread and have moments. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like that's what's most meaningful to her. So like I said, to know her is to know that.

And it was fun to share that part with it. So when her agent hit her, you weren't like, yo, why can't she has my number? I just, I was probably just texting her today. Yeah. I wasn't surprised at all. I wasn't surprised at all. Okay. Yeah. Okay. How has it been the evolution of podcast? I listened to the, I listened to a touch more, like, it's obviously been in different. You guys have had different eras of a touch more, but like the podcast, podcast version. We're listening to you and Megan do the podcast, like from the first couple episodes to

Now, and I know with me and Rajah and now Howard, how we've kind of evolved this podcast. It was at first, like, I know when me and Roger first started, we didn't even know each other. Like, I had like a 20 minute phone call with him and then we just start potting. But like, what I did remember from that situation is like you're getting to know a person on a different level while trying in front of everyone. And you kind of evolve your rhythm. This is what I was telling Megan when you guys first started. Like, you guys are trying to get a rhythm into the podcast space that it might seem awkward. at first, but you'll figure it out.

Did you feel, how to talk about your evolution from when you guys first started the podcast in this form of what it is to like how you guys have evolved as podcast hosts. And it's kind of weird because you're doing it with your boo. But like, how did you guys kind of evolve in your voices through the podcast space? I mean, I think you nailed it. It's just an evolution. Like even if it's, you know, the person you live with and are with 24-7, it's still an evolution because you're like doing a show.

I think more than anything, this particular evolution was just like us really, we already knew these things about each other and about ourselves, but really like just coming to like understand and like fully like appreciate, right? Like I'm way more of the like producer in the duo, right? Like I'm way more. Are you the point guard? Oh, what do you know? It never leaves.

It never leaves you. It never leaves you. Yeah, so I'm way more the point guard. And I'm like doing the prep and I'm like, you know, getting the outline going all the stuff. We have a producer, she's wonderful Jasmine, who does like the lion's share of it. But when it comes to like the me and Megan figuring it out part, I'm just, that's just more of like my vibe. And Megan's more like spontaneous and wants to like mix it up in the moment. And I think at first there was some growing pains on like figuring out how to do that like simultaneously at the same time without stepping on the other.

But now, like I said, I think we got to a point where we were just like, oh, in order for this pod to be great, like, you have to do that. And in order for this pod to be great, I have to do this. And now I think we just have like an understanding and appreciation of that that allows us to just like bring out the best in each other. And that was kind of the evolution. We never fought it. It was just about just like, oh, this is what it is. Okay, cool. And then we moved on.

That's exactly how it was with me and Roger. He was just like Megan. By the way, he's the biggest Megan Rapino fan of all the time. time loves her. But he, it was literally like I decided to make it so he can just show up, you know, and just like, and then go from there. And it's been great because he's amazing at it. But yeah, I don't know if you knew this, but this is you are the, the guest for our five-year anniversary of the podcast. So thank you so much. You are a three-timer. You, um, I think you, you, uh, I think you joined Rashid Wallace and, uh, Kendrick Perkins. So congratulations.

That's a lead company. Next time I see you, I, um, I will, uh, give you like some sort of certificate or something. But that was Sue Byrd, ladies and gentlemen, I can't, thank you so much for doing this every year. I really appreciate it. And then I'll see you in a year. So thanks so much. That has been another edition.

We will see you guys in the fall. I all the shits. Talk to you soon on behalf of Cliff, Victoria, Raja, Howard, motherfucking Beck. That is real ones. We'll talk to you guys soon. All the shits. Bye.