The Ringer NBA Show - The Anthony Davis Pre-Pre-Agency, the Minnesota Timberbulls, and (Another) Dwight Howard Debate | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 310)

Episode Date: September 11, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor discuss Anthony Davis’s uncertain future with the New Orleans Pelicans (15:30), Minnesota Timberwolves president-coach Tom Thibodeau acquiring his former players (24:08), and the most underrated acquisitions of the offseason (31:49). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly. Here's what's going on at The Ringer for the next couple of days. Every Sunday night on The Ringer NFL show, Robert Maze and Kevin Clark will be breaking down everything you need to know from the full slate of games and will be ready for your Monday commute. For even more NFL content, Roger Sherman is writing about the week one NFL winners and losers. And lastly, you can read Kevin O'Connor's take on the most underrated NBA offseason editions on our site, The Ringer.com. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday. from the ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor,

aka Kevin O'Bomber, aka Kevin O'Compter, AKA Kevin O'Candolk, Berna, I missed you so much. How are you doing? Where have you been? On a long, long vacation hiatus in Los Angeles and went home to Massachusetts to see my parents at the end of it, went to a lot of shows, met some new friends. It was a really, really good month. Wait, so you just took off work and you were right down the street?

I was staycation in L.A. Yeah, I explored, went to some shows, met new people. It was good. It was a really fulfilling month, Kersa. Oh, I'm glad you made friends. I did. I mean, I'm new in the city and I met friends outside of work, which was great. Yeah, because once you had moved there, I mean, outside of work, there's very little

opportunity, given you had buried your head in your work there to just, like, meet people and make some friends, right? Yeah. All right. So, give me, in terms of the whole going. around L.A. and seeing it because it's really like the first time that you've had a break in the action where you could just go and do this kind of stuff, staycation, whatever you want to call it. Give me three things that you went and got to see or do that you quite loved. Well, I mean, I think in terms of exploring, it was more limited. I spent a day at Santa Monica and that was really

relaxing just to walk around, people watch and do all that out there. Went to some shows, went to the Trubador. I saw Mount Joy there and Joey Dossack, both shows were outstanding. Oh, I saw you at a picture with Kiefer Sutherland. Yeah. What are you doing hanging out with Kiefer Sutherland? Keefer Sutherland was at the Mount Joy show. So what? I mean, he didn't want to be bothered by you. Well, he loved the band and we were just hanging out a little bit after the show. How? Matt Quinn, lead singer, lead guitars of the band. And Kiefer Sutherland, you just kind of went and took the picture with him. It was great. No, no, no. What? How are you hanging out with them?

Did you know anybody that I knew him? I wasn't hanging out with Kiefer. He was probably just hanging out with the band at the end of the show. And I was talking to Matt, the lead guy, and we just took a photo with Kiefer. It was sports, music, and movies intersecting all at once. Unbelievable. The Kiefer was interesting. It was really cool seeing him.

I mean, I used to have an email, Chris, when I was a kid. I was 12 years old, 13 years old. I mean email. Jack Bauer is God at Hotmail.com. It's one of my first email. I'm going to let that breathe. It's okay. I'm going to let that breathe and let everybody think about that.

Anybody who watched 24 knows Jack Bauer is God. Jack Bauer is God at Hotmail? Yeah. Is it still active? I don't think so. I'm going to send an email to it tonight. Jack Bauer is God at Hotmail.com. I tell you this.

Hey, to back you up, not on the ridiculous email address, but on the fact that Jack Bauer, for that moment in time, that was the biggest show going, one. It was fantastic. That was one of those that I caught on too late.

That feels like for me, the beginning of the binge watch stuff because this is before everything was streaming and whatnot, but I went and bought the seasons at a store. I was going to have time to kill. I was in between jobs.

And that was one of those that was like, I could not go to bed at night if I started watching them. because of the way it was set up, every episode ended in a cliffhanger, and I burned through those first three or four seasons like it was nothing.

I loved that show. It was fantastic. President Palmer once, yeah. Oh, I mean, whatever happened to his daughter. David Palmer is the best president in our lifetime, of course. Yeah, whatever happened to his daughter, Eliza Cuthbert or whatever.

I like her, too. Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of, yeah, that was a cool week seeing Kiefer, aka Jack Bauer. All right. So you got it, you went to concerts,

you went to Santa Monica, anything else? Yeah, that same week, I saw this artist called Amy On and she played at a poetry lounge. And I hung around at the poetry lounge after it was actually pretty cool. What is a poetry lounge? People just sit around and read poetry? Yeah, people went on stage and read their own poems. It was really cool. I cannot imagine anything that would bore me more.

It's your scene, Chris. It's literally the antithesis of my scene. I haven't gone back since, but I think I will at some point. It was just really cool. was a good week for shows. So you were moved by their poetry. Yeah, honestly. Some of them were pretty powerful and some of them were funny.

Some of them were like, what are you doing on stage right now? When people were openly nervous, everybody was supportive in the crowd. It was a nice atmosphere. It was cool. Oh, it sounds incredibly boring. Chris, you know, if you're in L.A., this is going to be the number one thing on your personal list. I know it. Yeah, I bet.

I'm going to go see a poetry lounge. I want to go watch people do their poetry or whatever. Yeah. You'd love it. It was a good month, Chris. How about you? A good month, you say. I've been working like normal people, Kevin.

I don't get to just walk away for a month. I mean, August overall, it was a good month. It was just a good month for meeting people. I tell you this, I went to New York City on a trip, and I did have an absolutely great time. I love going to New York. And, you know, there is a thing. The first eight years of my life, I grew up outside of New York City. My dad worked there.

And then we moved to St. Louis when I was a kid. And so I intermittently over the years, I've gone back just a few times. And obviously it changes every time. But the whole thing about, you know, New Yorkers, you know, being rude or people from the North Beach. I mean, maybe it was just lucky. I don't know, maybe things have changed. I swear, everybody I came across was so nice there. It was weird.

Because I've experienced it, too, you know what I mean, where people are in a rush and they're not exactly making eye contact and making small talk with you or whatever else. especially when you come from the South, what I'm used to is everybody being so hospitable. But, I mean, everybody was nice the whole time there. You brought that Southern Charmer up there, Chris. I think I did. Your positive energy was just resonating. I think I must have.

But anyways, yeah, no. So I guess that was the only trip I think I went on. I went there. I didn't take any trips aside from going home. I saw my parents and saw some friends. It was good. And watch some poetry. Yeah.

All right. We've had a month off. There has been some stuff that has taken place. every once in a while you would pop in on Twitter. Certainly you did when your beloved sons made a trade. The sons make this boner trade and you come in defending their honor of the bright future sons. Oh, come on. As they made their deal and they traded for a guy they could have drafted just a couple months ago.

Somehow, they're the ones that took on Ryan Anderson. And boy, I'll tell you this, Kev, you are really going into rarefied air being the guy that capes for Ryan Anderson and the guy who capes for Dwight Howard. I just wonder, do the old magic teams, like, have a special place in your heart or something? No, they don't. I'm not caping for either of those guys. Howard's getting paid $5.3 million. And Ryan Anderson is a solid player for the regular season.

There's nothing else to say about him. It's all I'm saying, he's a great player. He's going to change the future of the Suns. He's just a solid regular season player. And they dumped the Brandon Knight contract. Well, Brandon Knight, I mean, it's possible. be able to play. Yeah, it's possible.

We know Ryan Anderson can play in the regular season. Here's what we know. If you're going to be playing Ryan Anderson, I'm not going to ride you too much. Ryan Anderson. Because you were stupid to defend this trade. The stupid Phoenix Suns are the only ones that would have taken that crap on and not gotten a first rounder out of the deal or something. Okay, who's not playing by the way? Trevor Areza, Devin Booker, you're not going to play Josh Jackson?

You're not going to play T.J. Warren? Where are these guys playing? Where are these guys playing if you're playing Ryan Anderson? Devin Booker is going to be out for training. Yeah, Chris. Good thing they got Ryan Anderson. Kevin O. McDonough. Tell us about Devin Booker, Chris.

Huh? Devin Booker, they had to have surgery. I guess they said his hand got messed up and it got to the point where he's going to have to have surgery. And so we don't have a definitive timeline on him yet. We are recording this on a Monday for release on Tuesday. So as of recording, there is. not been a definitive timeline, but they just gave him, what, 150 million something in the offseason?

Got the big deal. So here's hoping, for their sake, that they were able to have Devin Booker at the beginning of the year. I don't know. I don't know what the timeline could possibly be on a hand injury that you have to have surgery on, but you obviously don't want to lose awesome players at the beginning of the year before the season ever even start. And he's going to be down for a while.

That's for sure. Sure, yeah. This is disappointing considering the fact that it was a hand injury that went back to last season. I know Adrian Ward Janowski reported that the right hand, quote, swelled up recently. So that's why they had to have the surgery. Did you see the conspiracy theory on Reddit? No. No. No. No. So about 30 minutes after the news went out, I believe it was. Devin Booker put up an Instagram story of him riding a bike with no handlebars. He was riding a bike with no handlebars? I mean, his hands weren't on the handles. That seems unwise. It's just pretty good timing.

I don't know about good timing. I mean, for us, the consumers, not for him. So that's how he heard his hand you're saying? Well, I mean, that's the conspiracy theory. I'm not saying that. It's not like people don't ride bikes without hands. It's not an unusual thing. Yeah.

But it's interesting nonetheless. I don't know how he heard his hand, but hand surgery, obviously not a good deal for him. Other things that have happened since we last spoke and uh rodney hood he finally signed there was a deal for rodney hood now this summer as we wrap it all up kev we do have to think back and go when we were having all our discussion about what do you think that guy gets and what do you think that guy gets right there were clearly guys that as the summer went on the money got swept up and i mean i thought rodney hood would get a double-digit deal didn't you? I thought he would get over 10 million from somebody. I don't know. I mean, he's,

he's all right. He didn't finish the year strong at all, really. Yeah, but I mean, you saw money being thrown around at the very beginning. And I get it that some guys got short-term deals, and so that money got thrown around. But I thought Rodney Hood, given his age and given his level of ability, might be able to get himself a good contract, even if it was a short-term contract. But there he is. And there's a bunch of guys here at the end. When it's all said and done, there's a bunch of guys that are going to play out next year. So there's a lot of risk, number one, right, when they're playing on the qualifying offers.

And number two, there's going to be a lot of guys back in the heap that are going to be trying to get that money the next time around. Some of it was probably miscalculation from agents. And some of it was there just wasn't money there anymore, right? You look around and the money's not left and teams don't want to be in the luxury tax. And so you just go ahead and resign with Cleveland is what he's going to do. And so we're going to have a lot of guys that are free agents that we talked about and they're going to go back into free agency.

Yeah. And a lot of guys, some of those guys are betting on themselves, including Rodney Hood. And it's probably a wise thing to do for him, right? Where, you know, obviously without LeBron James and Cleveland, he'll have more opportunity to shine, obviously. And that goes without saying, you know, but with Rodney Hood, so much of it has always been health and availability. He hasn't really been a guy you can rely on. He either has suffered injuries that keep him out of the lineup or injuries that take him out of a game. A lot of nagging

lower leg injuries over the course of his career going back to college at Mississippi State and then at Duke. He's always had a lot of injuries. So that's never gone away for him. If he manages to have an incredibly healthy season, maybe it's worth the risk for him because he's not like he's not going to get some level of money anyway. But to your point, Chris, about guys testing for agency next summer, it's going to be the same thing. Like, some guys are going to be the same thing. Like, some guys are going to get paid, but there's going to be a lot of guys who are going to get screwed again. Yeah, it feels like we have kind of moved into the mode of the guys that are going to get paid like a lot of money, get paid a lot of money. And then the other guys, like that middle

class of guys, there's less mistakes whereas somebody would have said, oh, we're going to throw a ton of money at Rodney Hood. You could find Rodney Hood or at least production wise, a decent replica of Rodney Hood for a lot less money than probably what he thought he was worth, right? And so you kind of have the guys that get paid a lot and then you've got the guys that don't get paid all that much. But the middle guys, there's going to be, it feels like the ones that kill you, the Ryan Anderson's that make 20 million, right? Those are the big mistakes. And maybe they'll never learn. And the next time the cap goes up, we'll see that happen all over again.

And we'll go that much money for that guy. On the other hand, it feels like less of that is happening. happening. Less of that happened this offseason because there's guys that we would consider good players. Rodney Hood is a perfect candidate of somebody that would get overpaid by a team. And the money just wasn't there. And it might not be next summer either, right? Like there's going to be around 500 something million dollars in cap space next summer.

That sounds like a ton until you realize how quickly it's going to evaporate, going to KD, to Clay Thompson, to Kyrie Irving, Kauai Leonard. You know, you're going to have extensions for up for guys like, Carl Anthony Towns, Jalen Brown, Ben Stamonds, even rookie extension candidates. There's going to be a lot of money that dries up quickly. So I think a lot of those guys in the Rodney Hood class, some are going to get paid, some that's going to work out for. Others, it's not, obviously, for Rodney Hood.

This is probably the most important season of his career. That's for certain. And he should be able to put up numbers on that Cleveland team. He should. Should, yeah, I think so. Who else are going to put the ball in the bucket? You got Colin Sexton, you got Kevin Love. Kevin Love.

I mean, Jordan Clarkson? then Nance may be able to get some points, you know, but he's never going to be a huge point guy. No, of course not. He's a pick and roll. You know, he's going to throw down lobs for you, you know, running to pick and roll. Sam Decker. Sam Decker get buckets. You don't agree?

No, I don't agree? You don't agree? No, I don't agree with Sam Decker getting buckets? No, I mean, look, man, like J.R. Smith, Rodney Hood, I would think Kevin Love will obviously be your number one, and then maybe Rodney Hood could be your second option behind that. It's a good opportunity for him. There's no doubt. You could probably put up pretty good numbers on that theme.

somebody's got a score every night. Anthony Davis switched agents. And the reason we need to talk about this is because it sent off signals to a lot of people that if he's switching agents, that this increases the likelihood that the Anthony Davis New Orleans marriage will not be for long. When you saw the story that he was switching agents, is that what ran through your head? Is that what you thought? You know, I texted a couple executives about this.

does 80 switching agents have anything to do with what happens for his future? And the response was pretty mixed. You know, one person pretty much said, if it's clutch, yes. Another person said, no, it really doesn't make a difference. It all depends on how New Orleans performs moving forward. And I ultimately fall on that side where, yeah, if it's clutch, it makes you think, you know, L.A. or another big market could be a likely option for him. But it kind of wasn't that already the mindset anyway? Doesn't it ultimately just have to do with how the New Orleans Pelicans performance basketball team. If they continue making strides, if Julius Randall elevates his game and him and Anthony

Davis really click at a high level, if Drew Holiday continues excelling, maybe staying in New Orleans and signing that gigantic $200 plus million contract extension is what he decides to do if the pelicans are a winning team. And like he said earlier this year, after Kevin Garnett said that he wishes that he had left Minnesota earlier to pursue championships. AD said, you know, when you hear stuff like that, it makes you. think, I wonder if I'm following the same path. I'm paraphrasing. But those comments gave a inside look at what he's thinking. And I think ultimately it's going to come down to how the New Orleans

Pelicans perform. Brian Winhorse and Ramona Shelburne teamed up on a story on this. And in their particular story, while people have opined that maybe it could be Rich Paul of Clutch Sports and the LeBron gang, that in fact, they are the leading contender to represent him. And so, right, this is cause and effect. He had a long-term agent. The Supermax is looming. He's going to leave him. And his agent played a role. And, you know, obviously he represents Russell Westbrook, right? Russell Westbrook was one of the stars who stayed in a small market, taking the big money deal. Oh, that's interesting. I didn't know that angle. So that this guy had actually advised, well, at least we know that he represents a star that stuck it out. Yes, exactly. In a different place. And so now everybody seems to think it is likely that he will sign with Clutch Sports.

and if he does, then that is going to mean that Anthony Davis is not for long in New Orleans and then... It doesn't mean that necessarily. Inevitably, people will bring up the Lakers, right? The Lakers were already brought up, though. The Lakers, right?

It's been a thing for a couple years now already. It's nothing new. To Lekans fans have been having to deal with that for a while now. Yeah, no kidding. And so the marriage between... Yeah, but then they could also... The marriage, like now it's a different thing

with Rich Paul. But the Lakers could also use their cap space next summer and not have any for Davis's free agency or they would have to trade for them. It's theoretically possible if you're the Lakers that you could get, you could sign a max free agent next summer and trade for an Anthony Davis, but the Pelicans would also have to be willing to dance to do that as well. Well, and here's it. The Pelicans have not done a great job of maximizing the Anthony Davis era. I mean, they have had him now for the amount of time they have. I don't think that I have ever seen a better player play in the playoffs less.

I'm not kidding. Over the course of the first, whatever, seven years of their careers. It's a shame. I mean, it is what it is. He has played a long time in New Orleans. He got to play that one year against the Warriors and then last year, right? It's only times they've been in playoff teams. I mean, it's really a shame.

I was just talking with Justin Barrier and Danny Chow. You know, we were talking about AD. And it's a shame that this guy is putting up the, he had this historic run last season. one of the best big men of the decade. Obviously, listeners of this show and people who are on NBA Twitter know how incredible Anthony Davis is, but it's really a shame that

he hasn't really been thrust into the spotlight where a casual fan sees Anthony Davis as playing on national TV because they're not on national TV that much. They're not in the playoffs. Fans that are more casual aren't getting an opportunity to see this incredible, great player

who has been great for years now but continues to get better. His basketball IQ has improved over the years. he's continued to stretch his game out, and his defense has not regressed. It's really remarkable what Anthony Davis has become. Listen, if you lined up every player in the NBA on a wall and did a draft,

and it's everybody just drafting their own team, everybody's just available, right? And the first pick goes to LeBron. I would not think it's insane if somebody took Davis second. I'm serious. I would not think it's crazy. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, if you're starting a franchise,

you might take 80 first. because of his age at 25. But if you're taking something to win a game today, yeah. I mean, that's how good he is, though. We both agree. He is an amazing talent. Oh, I mean, if you don't agree,

I'm not sure what you're watching. And this is what can happen because people will bust you up and say, well, if he's so great, how come he's not in the playoffs, whatever. He cannot give the ball to himself. I mean, this has been a tenant

that I've talked about a lot of times. There have been all manner of great players that are either power forwards or possibly centers that, I mean, they can't give themselves the ball. If you don't have the ball in your hands, you are so reliant upon the rest of your team. Unlike, I mean, I obviously hold it against guys that have the ball all the time more if they're the key guys on their team and they don't win big. But when you are at the mercy of your teammates, it's a little different deal.

And so it's obviously a great comp with Garnett. Now, Garnett, in fairness, they got to play deep into the West playoffs the one time when he had the Spreewell-Cassell team. But he didn't win as much as Kevin Garnett should have won in Minnesota. No. That goes without saying. And you don't want to look back and regret it. No. And AD has to be thinking that.

And that's why I think regardless of the agent, ultimately it's going to come down to how the New Orleans Pelicans perform the next two seasons. Or just the next season if they really struggle this year to the point where it's like, you know what I want out now. I'd be worried if I were a Pelicans fan. I'm super paranoid about that. Because really the team, like on paper, they're not bad this year. Really. I think they have an interesting roster with Nicola Meritich

they can play with a stretch four or with Julius Randall they can play a little bit bigger they have lineup versatility Drew Holiday is really really good Etouin Moore has been a solid player at the two for them they have some nice players

it's just that less is stacked will they even make the playoffs Anthony Davis is going to again have to carry them to the playoffs like he has had to in the past and Rondo was good for them last year when you read all those stories about the impact that he had

calling out defenses and like he's kind of a coach on the floor and rondo was good for them he was that can't be overlooked better than i thought he was going to be can't be overlooked the loss of rondo very important to have a guy like that and they're not going to have him all right we got to take a quick break when we come back we're going to talk about tom tibodeo getting the old band back together and also kevin o'connor's article on the most underrated acquisitions of the NBA offseason we'll do that after these words show today is brought to you by simple comments Contacts. Simple contacts is the most convenient way to renew your contact lens prescription and reorder your brand of contacts from anywhere in minutes. To renew your prescription with simple contacts, all you need is your current contacts, an internet connection, and 10 feet of space.

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but it is the most convenient way to renew a prescription and reorder your contacts if your vision hasn't changed. To get $20 off your first order of contacts, go to simplecontacts.com slash NBA or enter code NBA at checkout. That's simplecontacts.com slash NBA or enter code NBA at checkout for $20 off your first order. Kevin Tom Tibido is getting back the old squad. Yes! The Minnesota Timber Bowls. It has been reported today that Luau Ding is going to sign. a deal with the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Let's go. Tibodeo. Listen, Noah is out there. Yes. And surely the Knicks would give him up. They got to figure out a way to get Noah back there. And then they could just put together the old Bulls team with Derek Rose, Jimmy Butler. What's Heinrich doing?

I know we retired. Let's get him back in there. Come on, baby. Let's get it done. Heinrich's like, come on. All right. So we got Heinrich. They got to get Joe Noah.

And obviously they've got a Lual Dang that is going. going to be, oh boy, Tom Dimido putting together this Minnesota team that now has a bunch of his old players from the Bulls on it. Had Todd and Derek Rose. Good Scaliburiania out of retirement. Ashik should be available sooner enough. Ronnie Brewer. And all seriousness, this is the kind of thing we joke about, right? You know what I mean? And then it comes to fruition. And by the way, outside of Butler, like I don't know of any of those guys like I guess these guys don't blame him right for being run into the ground but like Lua Deng should still have a career going like a legitimate one. Well he does he just got signed.

No, I know and Jo Kim Noah too. I mean these guys are not that old but I mean there is a sentiment that he ran guys into the ground. Derek Rose notwithstanding. And so you know they obviously like Tibbs. I legitimately look forward to seeing Lualding. I do. I'm not sure what he has left. I mean, last we saw him, he wasn't anything special with the Lakers during the 16-17 season.

When he played 56 games, he looked washed then. But I'm curious to see how he performs after a year off of not playing anything but 13 minutes for the Lakers last season. You know what? We need a 30 for 30 on that off season with them. Like the Mascar, the Mazz golf and ding sightings. That will stand the test of time as the absolute weirdest things that, taking place. I mean, they sucked. Did they think they were going to get good

if they signed Lue L'Lding and Mosk off to the contract? I mean, it's still so bizarre in retrospect. And obviously, those players did nothing there. I mean, not to harp on the Lakers, because we're talking about the Bulls, but it's amazing how quickly things have turned around for them, because that would be a death sentence from most teams to sign those contracts. And yet, because they're the Lakers and they play in Los Angeles, there's a massively quick turnaround.

All right. So now Minnesota, Tibbs is going to have his old Bulls teams in there. I already thought that Towns, who cares about Wiggins, I already thought that Towns clearly was starting to resent that stuff. I said this on last year's podcast. You get the feeling that

Jimmy Butler and Todd and Tibbs are kind of on one side, which is, you know, we're gamers, we're hard-nosed, we're tough, we bring it every night. And then there's Carl Anthony, yeah, there's Carl Anthony Towns who's more of a passive guy, right?

Play video games all night, like, in high school and college. Yeah, right. And so now you're going to get, like, it's like strengthen numbers. He can probably,

like, he can like stand in the locker and be like, back on my, back on where we're playing. Right. He's talking about like old war stories, but he's got his guys in the locker room, right?

They won, we won 60-something games and we were, was it LeBron that was number one in the East? No, it was us. And Derek won the MVP and tell him, Derek, you know, they're all like just sitting around,

talking about the, old Bulls teams and talking about what a bunch of sissies the rest of these guys are on the team. That's how it really feels. Like, that he's just going to go out and get all these guys that used to play for him. You've seen this with other. You remember what? Well,

you may not remember, but Patino did this. He went and got all, like, all his old Kentucky players to Celtics. Steve Spurrier did it when he was trying to coach the Redskins. He went out and got frigging Danny Wharfill for God's sakes. We've seen this with coaches. Get the guys that they're comfortable.

comfortable with or guys that they've won big with and get them around, no matter what state they are in in terms of what they can do for the competition's sake. And the scary part for Minnesota, like right now is that with their roster, guess who can become an unrestricted free agent next summer, Jimmy Baller? And if he were to leave, then they're kind of right back to where they were before, except Andrew Wiggins will be due to be paid around $30 million and Carl Anthony Towns will be due for his rookie max extension without a lot more else to show. on the roster. I think this team

obviously is talent, Chris, don't they? They certainly have talent, but you need guys to elevate their game. You need Wiggins to become a more efficient score, become a better decision maker, be more consistent defensively. Carl Anthony Towns to be, needs to be less passive offensively, and I think they need to feed them more too. There's a lot that

needs to go right for this team this year for Jimmy Butler to want to stay in Minnesota. The thing that scares me is that they were terrible without Butler. They do have talent. It's undeniable. They were bad. without him, Kev. I mean, they hung on for dear life to stay in the playoffs.

They were like a top four seed most of the season. Fell off quick. And when they lost Jimmy Butler, the whole thing fell apart. They weren't terrible, but they were worse. They were bad. I think they're around 500, if I remember correctly. They ended the season on that three-game win streak, which enabled them to get in the playoffs.

They had to win that game. You returned for those games, too. Right. They had to win that game against the Nuggets to be able to get there. Let me look last year. in a minute. Yeah, they went through a pretty bad, what was the topout record? From February 24th to April 5th, those were the consistent dates, Butler missed. They were 8 and 9. If you include the one game, he played after the All-Star break, they were 8 and 10. They lost that game to the Rock. So that was his last game until April. So 8-10, below 500. They weren't horrible, but they were definitely way, way worse. And they lost a handful of games that they probably should have won, or games that were too close. Like, they lost to Memphis, 101 to 93. They beat down. Dallas only 93 to 92. They had a lot of tough, close games.

Got blown out by Utah. They weren't good. Well, listen, a 500 team is the freaking 10 seed. Oh, of course. Last year, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, a 500 team is a 10 seed last year instead of what we said. They were hanging out for dear life to be able to hold on to the eight. And at one point, or for a pretty good amount of time, they were up there possibly as a

home court advantage team. That's what makes the West so damn fascinating this year because the lake. are obviously going to be way, way better. Grizzlies should be better than 22 wins with Gasol and Conley back, and everybody else should be kind of right around the same in terms of expectations.

So, you know, it's like you're going to have 10 to 12 teams that are all deserving of a playoff spot. It's going to be fascinating in that race. Come March and April. I'm excited. There's very few teams that are just totally out of it, right?

You'd say the king sons? Yeah, Kings I'd put Mavericks in there too. Okay, Mavis? King, yeah, I just don't think they're on that level. I think they could compete. I think they could definitely compete if Devin Booker continues to elevate this way, they can compete,

but they're not a playoff team. Those are the ones who would be totally stunned. Kings are at the bottom of the barrel in the West, maybe in the league, for that matter. They got Marvin Bagley, though. I was waiting for that. I threw an alley, you wondering if you put it down. You didn't slam it in, but you

kind of laid it up. Well, you slammed it in or you did something with this most underrated acquisitions of the NBA article. Oh boy. I mean, you are the only person in the world caping for Dwight Howard. How is it caping for him?

Yeah, you are caping for him. This is why? Because the sub headline says, Dwight Howard was a good signing by the Wizards. Seriously. Even though he has made now four consecutive teams worse. The Lakers, the Rock,

the Hawks and the don't call me Bobcat Hornets. The Lakers, Houston, Atlanta, Charlotte have all gotten worse once acquiring Dwighthout. Okay. You could take all these stats and you could throw them in the trash. I don't know how

a player of his ability seemingly has made every team worse. It is like what Bill Simmons and Joe House called Dwight Bolivirus. And he's on House's favorite team now. Okay. Okay. So on these teams that he made worse in the past, Lakers, he made 19.5 million.

Rockets, he made up to 22.4 million. Hawks, he made 23.1 million. For the Hornets, he made 23.5. This season, he's making 5.3. 5.3 for a guy who is still a pretty good defensive player, still an elite rebounder, and still a guy who can finish around the rim quite efficiently. And maybe if he adapts his play to do more pick and roll,

which we've been saying for five years. And he never has. But if he does now, when his. wallet's getting hit, maybe this is the time where he's like, oh, shit, like, I really do have to change my game to start making 20 plus million dollars again. Maybe this is... Give up the dream, Kevin. Yeah, but...

Listen, it's a $5.3 million gamble for a guy who has underperformed his contract the past four years and has been a pain in the ass for some of the locker rooms, but now he's a much less significant risk at $5.3 million. That's why he's, in my opinion, underappreciated signing from this summer. He's worth the risk for a team that's been in the middle for the whole. decade gives him a little bit more higher upside. No. I know.

I know. I know that's going to be their response. He makes him worse and he makes everybody worse. And that's the end of the deal. Who was it that he just, who did he compare himself to? We'll see. What he's talking about hitting jumpers and stuff? Yeah, Kevin Duran and all that.

I just ignore that. What do you mean you ignore it? I think he's freaking Kevin Duran. You're talking about picking rolls? That's all talk, man. we'll see I realize I'm nitpicking here

but the comment that was interesting to me in that article your affidcing is was when Howard himself said it's either evolve, adapt or get left behind but he doesn't understand how he needs to adapt he thinks he needs to become like somebody can bury jumpers

listen that's what his trainer said in the article the quote from his trainer Justin Zormello was quote he wants to evolve into Anthony Davis and Kevin Durant, but his own version of that. I don't know what the trainer meant. Oh, my God. Trainers are often out of way of hyping up their own players.

It happens with every trainer with the Instagram videos and all this stuff. I'm sure Zormelo was just hyphen up his guy with the good summer he feels like he's having. But that's not going to happen, obviously. Dwight Howard's not going to become that player. So it's not even worth entertaining. But if he's trying to evolve his game to extend his career. You're talking about a guy that's working with him all the time that is using his name in the same sentence

we can't. Come on. Why how is that the focus? Why? He's not a bad player. He's just been overpaid. Ever since he's been gone from Orlando pretty much. What he gets paid has nothing to do with the fact that he's made everybody worse. The money matters. How are you going to tell me the money doesn't matter?

You were just done talking about Ryan Anderson makes $20 million. If he made $5 million, would you care? No, you wouldn't. Because the money matters. If he's playing all the time and he actively makes my team worse, he should be paying me. He should be paying the Wizards $5 million. He's going to make him, oh my goodness. What that? I mean, I don't, I don't care what the guy

gets paid if he makes me worse. I do care, like, I'm expecting him to play for me. Why do you think Dwight how, I realize, whether he makes $25 million or $5 million. Why do you think he's going to make the Wizards worse? Because he's made every frigging team worse since Orlando. Literally every team. Every team he's ever been on, acquires him, and becomes worse. Like at what point does that not become a reasonable expectation? What are we talking about here? Maybe they will. The Lakers got worse.

The Houston Rockets got worse. The Atlanta Hawks got worse. I can't really believe I'm defending Dwight. Did they get worse just because of Dwight? The Rockets get worse just because of Dwight. The Hawks were already bad. The Hornets were already average. And the Wizards very well might continue to be average.

Or maybe John Wall, Dwight Howard, maybe they clash. Who knows? But what we do know what the team was before. They were going nowhere. nowhere. It's a calculated risk at only $5.3 million for a guy who is a good defensive center, an elite rebounder, and if he does just really just take it and just try to do more pick and roll, he could be really, really good in that role. He'd be really good with John Law. There's a chance they could work out with Dwight Howard. And I haven't said that in the past. This is the first year I'm saying it.

I am on the side, and I agree with the beloved Bob Ryan, who I watched one day on Around the Horn, say that Dwight Howard is the absolute biggest waste of talent in NBA history. You know what? And that's how I open up the article. I open up the article the first sentence. I never cared for Dwight Howard. And I still don't. Because I think I agree with Bob Ryan that he, despite the fact that he's arguably had a Hall of Fame career, three-time defensive player of the year, eight straight all-NBA selections. The guy was amazing for some time. But even then there's still more that he never gave, especially, you know, in playoff situations when Orlando made some of their runs,

you needed more from Dwight and he wasn't able to give it, right? And then, you know, talk about him as a teammate being a goofball. Early on his career, it was kind of fun, but now it's not so fun. I'm with you, but for $5.3 million, that's what matters, Sarah. And then the reason I think he makes teams worse is because I don't think he cares if he's losing. I don't. I think he's just a goofy, laissez-faire, whatever. He doesn't have that thing where he cares.

desperately if he wins or loses. And that has a big effect on teams having a guy like that around all time. And that's why I think he makes teams worse. I think that has a profound effect on people when you just go out there, get your stupid points and rebounds and get your ass kicked and then, you know, go on to the next game. So what? That's my biggest beef.

And I do think that has a big impact on other players. And it permeates a team because he's always. been, I mean, he's a very accomplished player. He is. I can't take away his accomplishments. But I have seen absolutely no reason to believe that he cares about winning in a long time.

And I think if you're going to have a big time player on your team that doesn't care about winning, it's a killer. An absolute killer. Anyway, I liked your other ones. One last thing on Dwight. I'm not saying he's going to make the Wizards better, to be clear. I'm saying it's underappreciated because everybody's

saying he sucks. He's not going to help. This is going to cause the wizards to just be destroyed. What I'm saying is, well, maybe not. Maybe this could work out. There's a chance that it will. And I could end up looking silly. You will. Maybe I will. But I think there's a chance I could end up looking right here. No, it's not maybe. You're 100% going to look silly. And this was a very dumb thing to write. I'm glad you like my other ones. I know. No. Well, this is what I liked about him. Because then I started to realize something. After I read through the Dwight Howard one, right? What I realized when I got to number two,

Austin Rivers is that you really sat down and think okay, who do people hate the most? And you said, all right, Dwight Howard, all right, oh, I know, Austin Rivers.

And you're just going to reel them off one by one. You're going to say, yeah, people really hate this dude. All right, Austin Rivers is an underrated acquisition. He is. I actually, I think I have a higher opinion of Austin Rivers.

Okay, cool. I think Austin Rivers is, in a league that is not, there's not a plethora of a good backup point guards. And I mean ones that you can put in the game when your starter is out and feel like you can still win. If you're just in a pinch like that and you just need a guy to come out and run a pick and roll, I mean, I've seen Austin Rivers win games like that.

And there have been stretches where he's been very good. I have a higher opinion of him. I've said this to you before. I think if his name was Austin Jones, he would be viewed infinitely different. That sums it all up. That's literally all you have to say about Austin Rivers. If he did a different last name, he'd be viewed completely differently.

I liked the Yaka Portal. I like Tyreek Evans. Somebody like nobody cares about it. So it went from like two people people hate to somebody. It's like, oh, Pertil. How do you say it's portal? POTL. How do you say it rhymes with Turtle? Tyreek, obviously, I covered him last season.

It'd be interesting. I don't know how he's going to fit with those other guys. What has B. Feldt. He was so good at the very beginning of the season. I would have loved to have seen him in the role that he'll play. He is not, you don't want him to be your starting point guard. You just don't. But if he's the man on your bench unit, he is a devastating scorer like that, player like that, right? And it befelled him again where he just played on a losing team. He has always lost. He's just over and over again,

all losing. So at one point, I would like to see Kit Tyreek have a big season and play like he did last year and put up the numbers and the percentages playing for a good team. Because obviously, Indiana should be good next year, right? They should be a good team. Yeah, they're going to be an entertaining team. I think he can, but it'll be interesting to see how he plays with everybody else because he just kind of had the ball whenever he wanted it and could do whatever he wanted to do. And you can't typically do that on good teams, you know.

You know, never mind with the ball handlers. They had Victor Oladipo, all NBA player last season. Darren Collison, a solid point guard for them last season, shot three really well. But, you know, with those guys, Ola Depot Evans and Collison and Cory Joseph, if he sticks around, we'll see. All those guys can play on and off the ball. So they have multiple ball handlers who can initiate the offense for you and give you different looks. I like the Tyree Kevin's fit for them. People can go see the rest of the article, the most underrated NBA offseason moves by Kevin O'Connor.

Kevin, it was good to catch up. I'm glad to hear you are doing so well, and I'll talk to you soon. The season is, what we got? I think we got two weeks till training camps. Boy, it's coming soon, isn't it, Chris? Yeah, two weeks till training camps, and everything will get back cracking. Time moves by so quickly. Yeah, I'll talk to you around the corner.

Thanks, brother. It's going to do it for another Ringer NBA show. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, and we will talk to you next week.