The Ringer NBA Show - The Best and Worst Moves of the Offseason (So Far) | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 9, 2026

Justin, Rob, and J. Kyle Mann return to discuss which teams and players have made the most and least of the offseason. (00:00) Intro (3:52) Best Moves (16:11) Worst Moves (36:52) Biggest Questions (47:08) Biggest Winner (54:14) Biggest Loser Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and J. Kyle MannProducers: Victoria Valencia and Stefan AndersonProduction Supervision: Ben Cruz and Conor Nevins Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me, Rob Mahoney, J. Kyle, man. Getting to the dog days of summer. Rob is already just like abandoned all production quality. Are you in a hostage video right now? If you're watching a video, you should take a look at this because it looks like Rob is just like a ghost. I'm just, I'm coming apart at the seams. I'm going to be honest with you. But we have to soldier on. We have to make content. And I would like to think that I'm here for contrast. You two are appearing before us in beautiful, 4K resolution. I'm here to remind everyone this is how it used to be. This is where we came from and you guys are the

glow up. Just laying on the tripwire basically. That's Rob, typical. So what are we going on here? Summer League is about to start here. I'm not going. Rob, you're not going. Sadly, Kyle. Kyle's the party. He's going. He's ready to

rock out to watch some potential G-leaguers. Just get down. I don't know what this says about me, but the internal conversation about this is always a given space. No one has ever like, are you going? They're like, well, you're going, obviously. It's like people just assume, people assume I'm down to watch a lot of meaningless basketball. And they're right. I am. I'm so excited. I'm even going to go to EYBL. I'm doubling down on meaningless basketball. This is a great weekend for me. It's at that point where I start

to wonder to myself because I am going to like clock in. I'm going to do the work. I'm going to look at the, I'm going to watch the marquee matchups. The Peterson versus DeBonza is tonight. as we're recording this. Is it actually worse to watch this from afar to make appointment viewing in your just normal day of life as opposed to going out to Vegas, suffering through the heat

and watching this in real right in front of you? They're not even comparable. Kyle's going to be out there hobnobbin, live in the Vegas lifestyle, and you and I are just watching the G League equivalent on our couch. Even if it is, you know, elite prospects coming in,

it's loose basketball. It's pickup adjacent. I love Summer League. And it pains me deeply to not be there. And I got to say, The FOMO is already kicking in pretty hard, Kyle. Everybody's the best thing about Summer League is, I always say this, is just the hope springs eternal aspect of it because the season's over.

We're starting at square zero. Everybody's just in a good mood. That's the thing, man. It's like nobody's mad. It's just kind of, you know, the champs are strutting around a little bit, but people don't really care. It's like, I guess the Knicks are a little bit different. But just the everybody's hope is springing eternal.

So it makes for a very good vibe. all the nerdy beat riders just letting their hair down having two beers on the road as opposed to the normal just like one just to get them to sleep at night uh real party central very odd stuff very specific yeah anyone you want to call out justin what are you what are you feeling uh you specifically yeah i'm out there i'm out there getting trash baby it's party time for me when i'm there uh no there's no doubt well i mean look justin verier gets after it in his ways yeah by my myself away from everybody else. Sure.

Why would I go to a party, you know? Just talking to people, just hanging out. Never. Never going to do that. All right. We're going to talk about some Summer League findings next week. Talk about everything Kyle's going to see and everything Rob and I are going to see from afar. But first, we've got to check in on the moves that have already happened.

I feel like there's so much to talk about. We talked about a lot of them in the previous pods, but we still haven't dug into the weeds. So we're going to do some of the best and worst moves of the off season this far. A couple other categories in here, Winners, losers, biggest questions, all that good stuff. But why don't we start at the top? Because we're such positive, optimistic lads here.

Best move of the off season. Rob, do you want to kick us off? Yeah, forgive me for being obvious. But the heat traded for Janus onto Dekumpo. Seems like a good piece of business if you can do it. I feel like we've, there was an out-of-sight, out-of-mind thing with the bucks, where people checked out, they were annoyed by the Janus trade experience. They were waiting for a resolution.

and the conversation around Janus just kind of either vanished or took a turn that I did not expect, when the reality is, when this guy plays, he's awesome. When this guy played for the Bucks last season, they were really good. The Bucks with Janus on the floor last year with that team were better than the Lakers with Luca, were better than the wolves with Ant by the numbers. Like, this is the impact that this guy can have on a team. And if you're the Miami Heat going from functional irrelevance, clawing for the play in every year, to having a true, like, top.

five player on your team for the first time since 2014. That's a huge deal. So great to get Janus whenever you can. I understand the caveats. We can certainly dig into them. But to me, so many of the things we've been talking about with Janus and the heat as far as potential downsides, those are the differences between a second round playoff team and a contender. How about the fact that the heat are going to be a potential second round playoff team again? That's huge for them in particular. So this is where I want to distinguish between best move and winners of the off season because I looked at best move, Kyle, more is like the return and going out and just basically the move itself versus winners. Like I would say the heat might be winners

because they did actually change the shape of their franchise finally after muddling through the middle of the yeast for so long. But the move itself, I don't know, Kyle, what do you think? Because I thought it was a lot for Janus. And it doesn't seem like the heat or set up, at least for the immediate, to really hit the ground running with it. Well, yeah, I mean, you have to move heaven and earth to get these types of floor raising players because that's what Janus is. And like what Rob is articulating there is very true, which is if he's on the floor, you can have, you know, he's Tony Stark with a box of scraps. He can make the Iron Man suit. I've known I've made that joke a million times, but it's true. I mean, he out there, he's going to raise Miami's floor in a way where, and the

thing that we've been kind of quibbling about in the aftermath of the trade is just like, okay, well, what's their ceiling? If you put yourself in the position to just have that conversation at all, That's a huge win based on where Miami was. These are the guys that you want. When we always talk about like, you know, the four quarters don't equal a dollar. Janus is absolutely one of the few dollars in the world. He's different from everybody else, whether it's his, you know, downhill pressure, just creating easier shots for other people, drawing fouls.

He's just his presence. He's one of the most just unstoppable offensive forces in the league and he's imposing. So they have moved themselves to a different conversation. What they gave up, I mean, it feels like it's more of, when we think about this, it kind of feels like it's more of a Milwaukee problem at this point, right? Because if you're Milwaukee, you're looking at this and going like, I, we're, okay, we got a lot of stuff here, but I don't really know what the thing to move forward with is on that, in that case, I think it's a win for Miami. I don't really know that they gave up, you know, Hero might have an all-star season this year, but he's kind of a 20 or 15 through 25 kind of level player or is he. even that. I mean, he's definitely reaches all-star status, but I don't know that he's a like lead you to a title type of a guy. He feels like he's maybe even more

of an asset that we could flip forward and get more stuff. I think it's a win for Miami for all those reasons. Yeah, JV. Is there a bridge too far for you? Or are you like, not on my watch, Tyler Hero? You know, Jaime Hawkes, I simply couldn't bear it apart with him for Janus. Like, what was it that makes you

feel like maybe the move itself is up for debate? Well, they got the stick up package, which is They got the jewelry. They got everything in your wallet. They got all the loose change. They got everything that they had that a team would want. Yeah, but who carries cash these days?

So it is just loose change and like a couple of firsts, if we're being honest about it. Let's tease this out, though. I mean, are we talking, do you need a job? Is this a heist? What's the next level of your metaphor there? Well, I think some of them actually, I don't know how to thread the needle because I do think the appeal of doing that. about getting everything that you can is what we've seen what the jazz do. Like, for instance, all of a sudden, Lori Marketingin is way better than you think.

Walker Kessler just went for two swaps and two first, didn't expect that. That was part of the, I believe, Rudy Gobert trade. Like, you just find things when you just take a big lump of assets that probably wouldn't have been otherwise explored because it didn't have the studio space in the previous team. And so I like it for that reason, in contrast to perhaps like Jalen Brown. but overall, like I'm looking at this more from the Miami side of things. They gave up everything. They couldn't even keep Yakoshonis at the end of it in order to get Janus.

And I just look at the heat. I'm like, Janus is great. Definitely would make the deal. But actually, like, if we're doing the accounting of it, I don't know if the heat are like appreciably like, they're not contenders next year. They're better, but they're not contenders. And for me, I wonder if the trade math puts them in best move of the all season. I think they could be contenders.

They still have some moves to make. They still need to round out the back part of their bench. But again, these are the questions for contending teams, right? The threshold we're holding them to is, are you going to be good enough to compete with the Knicks? Are you going to be good enough to compete with, you know, whoever the second best team in the East ends up being, whether it's like the Pistons take a step,

although they're going to need to make moves too. If it's the Celtics, if they pan out, if the Sixers, if they pan out, there's so many ifs. And Janus is one of those ifs, he's going to be healthy, one of the big lingering questions over the heat and over the east, I just think those problems are so much preferable to even whatever you would have had with Hero,

with Colel Ware, with Yucacuanus, with Jaime Hakez, with even the firsts, that if I'm Miami, I'm welcoming those questions as opposed to the alternatives. Kyle, do you want to do your best move? I've kind of a grab bag of them, but I mean, I think for all of the one, another obvious one,

sticking with the obvious theme, we talked on and on and on about the Celtic side of this, but for the Sixers, adding Jalen Brown after giving up a 36-year-old Paul George, who I still stick by, has been a better player than Jalen Brown for his career. Suck on that, guys. I'm not moving an inch off of that.

I still think that's true. And I pulled a lot of people who agree with me. So whatever, don't care. Roast me, whatever. I'm fireproof. And two second Brown picks. I mean, it's a, that's a great move for the Sixers. They got, I mean, they have some things to figure out

like we were talking about on the last episode. I mean, I think that they're courting a lot of, lot of other questions, but getting him in the door, I think, is a big win for them. And there's more stuff about Sixers to talk about. But yeah, Jaylon Brand of the Sixers, I think, is a great move. That was a great case of opportunistic thinking by them. Especially if the whole argument was that Paul George's contract and Jewel and Beade's contract had hemmed in the Sixers and prevented them from doing anything significant. This is a huge swing to be able to pull off under the circumstances. under no situation did I think that Philadelphia was going to be able to get a player as good as Jalen Brown.

So the imagination, the creativity, the opportunity of the moment, whatever it was that tied these teams together and like forced two rivals to make a monster trade. I'm glad they did it because it's going to result in like a lot of interesting basketball and certainly a much more interesting Sixers season. They paid very little for a guy who just finished sixth an MVP. we're a regular all-MBA guy or in contention for that. So in terms of like an actual move itself, yes, that is definitely one of the best of the summer. I just liked what the Sixers did overall this summer. I like them getting Dean Wade in there, especially as a prelude to getting Jalen Brown. Also, Anthony Simons, I believe, for like the mid-level or they're about.

Well, I was saving that. Yeah. Go ahead. I'm saving that. Shame on me for saving that. No, we can do it now if you want to do it now. Yeah, I mean, they're one of my winners. Yeah, for sure.

I mean, for the reasons you just said, they added back in depth with Labarion Phylon, another guy that they didn't expect to be there. Anthony Simons, that's a great signing. Dean Wade, I like that one too. Huck Porty could end up being a, you know, a depth piece for them. So, yeah. Tilemented Huck Porty. Got to get that in the building. Of course. Championship experience.

So I took a different approach here. I went with just the Hornets overall because I just felt like their move to look at the bigger picture, to get out the knuckleheads and be a little. little bit more serious about what they're doing. I think it took guts, first and foremost. Like, we've seen other new owners come in there and just try to swing for the fences. We see that pretty much every time a new guy takes over the wheel of a franchise. But they basically did the opposite to have taken a step back. And every time they've gotten to the point where they could hit the button, they've decided to like be a little bit more prudent about things, ultimately reap two unprotected 233 first round picks, one of which is from the

Phoenix Suns. Honestly, it's so far away. the Phoenix Suns might actually be good again that they've gotten so bad they've come out on the other end of it and so I wonder if it's too far away in some senses but I also got one from the wolves six seconds ultimately they're reaping from all their trades

Grace and Allen good player and they just got wings on like fine contracts which I think are either flippable or they're like totally fine rotation players in the now I just think like the hornets looking at their self and being like we could be fun or we could be good and serious down the road

and they chose the latter I think that's the best move of the all season I think there was a possibility they could have been fun and good and serious all at the same time if they had just kind of trudged forward with one of the most dominant cores of the back half of last season. But they clearly, I acknowledge the like the boldness that you're singling out here, right? That is a hard decision to make. Trading lamella ball, hard decision to make. Veering away from that core.

I appreciate the vision, if nothing else. And I think the part of this, we talk so much about lamello. that's like the bigger more sparkly deal. Getting a good first and good players for Miles Bridges is unbelievable under these circumstances. I'm baffled that the sons took that chance. But like, you're right. Grayson Allen's good. Royce O'Neill will help the Hornets.

And the first that they got, distant as it may be, who knows where the sons will be in that particular cycle, a worthy gamble to take when all you have to give up is, you know, the most lacking piece of your starting lineup effectively. Yeah, I have that written down that. unprotected, is it 2029 first from the, from the Sons? I think it is. Who knows what the Sons are going to be like? They're going to be paying Devin Booker, I think like 60 something million dollars that year. So that team, that could end up being an interesting situation for them if they end up getting handcuffed and aren't as good as they are right now. But yeah, I mean, you get back Knaz-Reed, who's going to fit what they do. He's a floor spacer. You draft Hanna Steinbach,

who is going to, as we were saying, feed into their style. He just is a black hole for offensive rebounds and defensive rebounds. Christian Anderson fits what they want to do. I think it really did take some mega stones to come out of your first really good season in a long time. The vibes, I mean, it's a risky move with their fans. I know that Lamello was a super popular guy. They must have internally just been kind of like waiting for the right chance to do this. Like it was just a target that was moving back and forth in front of them and it lined up at the right moment.

They're fire! I feel like that's probably what. happen. So we'll see if they take a step back. I mean, if Brandon Miller and Khan sort of spread their wings a little bit here and take up some of the playmaking chops or the playmaking load, it's hard to imagine that because Lamello is just so good at that stuff. And he's such a creative playmaking genius off the dribble. I'll be curious to see what their record does in relation to last year. Yeah. So for clarity, it was the Hornets gave up a 2029 first to the Suns. in part of the exchange.

And it's the 2030, 233 suns first unprotected that's coming back to the Hornets. That's the one. That's pretty far out. That's a different world. It is quite far out. The sun itself might have burned out.

That's true. We are approaching the heat death of the universe and always of the Phoenix Suns. All right. Do we want to go to worse move now? I feel like there are so many contenders here. This might be just like a halcyon days for worse moves over an offseason.

You think it was that bad? I think there are just so many contenders as opposed to there being just one tried and true, like obvious one. Who did you go with? So I went with kind of slightly smaller scale by, you know, the financial commitment, by what may seem to be the stakes. But in terms of importance and in terms of what it signals, I think this is an absolutely horrendous decision.

And that was James Dolan not bringing back Mitchell Robinson from the championship Knicks. Is this like of the magnitude of some of the biggest contracts handed out? not. But I think for one, championship teams, they don't have to bring back everybody. It's a financial reality for a lot of these groups. They're usually very expensive by the time they win the title. You have to cut somewhere. I get it.

But Mitchell Robinson was one of the most important Nix period, certainly their most important reserve. And it's like a legitimate game changer stylistically. Like one of the bench players who comes in and teams have to actively adjust to with how much of a menace he has on the offensive glass, forces lineup changes, forces you to match up with him. he's a huge deal for New York and them losing him is a huge deal

especially to the Celtics in yet another part of that exchange. If you removed him from let's say that Spur series and you can't look at every series I mean every series is its own vacuum and you can't, you know, they're all different. Do they win that series without Mitchell Robinson?

I mean, I know that's, they had a lot of important pieces and you could play that game with a lot of different guys. You know, if they don't have OG on and on and on. But he's integral, man. I mean, his offensive rebounding rate was like one of the, was it like, Topps in the league. It's crazy how much he spackles over their sort of half court woes at times

just with his ability to help them just reset and do it again. He's a very unique type of defensive tool that, yeah, I mean, I was joking that if the NBA ever did a musical that they should have James Dolan sing, I would do anything for love, but I won't do that. And the one that he won't do is the second apron. But he wouldn't even have had to go into the second apron. And I think some of these other guys, do you think that there's a tradeoff where they could have maybe deprioritized some of these other dudes in favor

to make the money work for Mitchell? I think it was always going to be really tricky with the math and there was going to have to be a picking and choosing that happened, but also just pay the second apron. Like if all we're saving is James Dolan drawing that particular line and them not going over it,

the Knicks are not a team that needs a ton of flexibility right now. They have a championship minted roster, as we've alluded to. Why not try to at least roll back to the core component? of it. Bring back Landry Shammit, bring back Mitchell Robinson. Keep this thing going in a way where instead you've subbed in Andre Drummond, who is fine, but I think it's just case and

point that not all rebounds are the same. Like the difference between a Mitchell Robinson rebound and an Andre Drummond rebound, I think it's going to be made painfully clear over the course of this next season. Yeah. If you're going to tell your roster to keep it in your pants, you should be able to pull out your Wad in order to keep Mitchell Robinson. Wow. Holy, holy, Christ. Yep. Holy Christ. I mean, I can't argue with where you got, you know.

The methods, the pullout, I don't know. But three signed Mitchell Robinson is the important part, whatever watt it takes. Yes. I think the issue is that Robinson only went for the mid-level, essentially. And so it is very low. It wasn't like some team came over the top and offered him a deal that you just like couldn't conceivably see. I would have loved to see like a one-year deal going to the second apron just to bring

it all back in order to do. do it. But this is this is what the owners do. They preach poor when they're probably printing money when everyone in New York is literally on the street being like, give me memorabilia, please. You could charge the mid-level for like two Knicks championship shirts. Just recoup the money. It's really not that hard. Kyle, what is your worst move of the offseason so far? In my list that we hit one of them. I mean, I had the everything is just a matter of perspective, right? We talked about how good that was for the Hornets that they got off of the bridges. I don't really understand.

Maybe there are some like-minded people out there in Scottsdale to Miles who can relate and they wanted him to come join their team. So I had that one. Another one, I mean, just automatically pulling the trigger on the sticker price for Walker Kessler, which I'm going to assume that was like the showroom price. And they were just like, deal. Like, was there much haggling? I also was just thinking here, if you, I like Kessler in a vacuum.

I think that he can do a lot of different things. I think he could be a pretty great, a pretty good roller, a pretty good rim protector. He fits with Luca. But if you look at the fact that Utah obviously was not in a high leverage situation. I mean, I'm just surprised there wasn't much haggling based on that because they've got some, I don't know if it's a log dim if you want to call it that, but it just seemed like a lot. A lot and they gave up a lot. I know we can zoom out and talk more about the Lakers.

in general, but this is a huge investment for a guy who has not really played a whole lot as much as we like him. And so the investment with the lack of seeing it and the picks, it just feels like the Angels once again stuck it to the Lakers. That's what it feels like to me. You know at the end of No Country for Old Men where Bardem, spoiler alert for a two-decade-old movie gets in the car crash and like there's those two kids and he like gets the shirt from him. That was basically the negotiation that went on. Like, he needed this exact shirt and they were the only ones that can give it to him. And so the jazz basically took everything. They took the pants. They took whatever everything in the pockets was going on there. And we're all sitting on the

curve all three of us saying, look at that fucking bone. Yeah. That's right. So two firsts, two swaps, plus the contract on top of it. That's where it really gets dice you for me. So obviously, you're going to have to overpay Kessler in order to get him to sign on to this entire sign and trade to begin with. So it's a 32.5 annual value of a contract that extends four years. But it's not actually four years because it's a three plus one. There's a player option on the end. And so essentially you have Walker Kessler for three years in which he is going to be spoon-fed buckets from Luka Dodge. It's probably one of the best to do that exact thing. And then in his age 27 season, after his age 27th season, he gets to go back on the market

where he's going to have you buy the balls at that point. And so it's not just now. It's also going to be later where you're going to be paying through the teeth. And so this was a very close 1B for me. I have another one here, but I think this is certainly in the running. It's just a lot. And the gymnastics that we now have to do as guys who understand the value of Walker Kessler defensively, but have to understand him in context.

And like, this is just a lot to give up for a guy with very little offensive game who hasn't had meaningful experience in any of these games as of yet. For this money, for this. turn. It's just a ton. And yet, I guess the desperation of the Lakers justified it, right, in terms of wanting to go out and get a premier center, if you want to call Walker Kessler that, I think the problem is he hasn't lived up to or measured up to that billing. He hasn't had a chance to in his NBA career so far. So it's hard to put him into that kind of slot. But that's the price they paid. The Lakers paid a premium price for a prospect who could be pretty good, could be a difference maker on defense,

but really we don't know. And that's a terrifying place to be, especially with that player option, you talked about Justin, where sometimes a player option is a big deal and sometimes it's not. This one does feel a little painful because in the scenario where this goes great for the Lakers, it still bites them in year four because they don't have been locked in at this price. So if he lives up to it, it really is just a three-year deal. And if he doesn't, you're on the hook for four years of quite an expensive center. Unfortunately, you guys missed the worst move, the definitive worst move of this offseason. Tell us.

And that is handing Trey Young, four years, $212. million dollars. I thought it couldn't get worse, but yesterday, so we're recording this on Thursday, on Wednesday, Winhorst did a radio hit somewhere. I forgot where he was. Where he was basically like the Wizards promised Young that he would get this deal if he just sat out for the rest of the season, which is nefarious and all this other stuff we can get into. This is just kind of how the NBA works. But like, why are you boxing yourself into a place where you need Trey Young. I already thought it was bad that after he opted out, you felt like you had to pay him the absolute maximum in order to retain him. I just thought there was a competing offer and like,

you just had to do that. I was always like, well, just let him go. Like, who cares? You paid nothing for him. If anything, you got off of some money long term in order to do so to trade him and basically trade for him and basically like agree to him sitting out. Like you could have just, you could have just tanked. But just don't take him on, let him opt out of his contract and sign him in the office. The whole thing just doesn't make sense to me anymore. Yeah, there was no competing offer. Like, it's real my girlfriend in Canada energy. Like, we have someone on the phone who's willing to pay Ray Young $200 million.

That person doesn't exist. I'm sorry to say, it is, I think it's just yet another case of the, like, it only takes one lottery. And Trey Young won it this year. I have him slotted in in a different cast. category because like I think him and his agent played this pretty much perfectly under the circumstances. So like hard to argue with getting the bag if you're Trey Young in this particular way. But this is an incomprehensible contract. Trey Young is really good. He's a genuine difference maker difference maker on offense. The playmaking is profound in terms of the effect

he can have on a team like the Wizards. Just why are you in line to pay this guy $212 million when literally no one wants to do it? The Hawks were begging teams to get off of him and settled for C.J. McCollum in a way that ended up benefiting them. But Tray Young's market just isn't like this. And I guess the Wizards backed themselves into thinking that it was for whatever reason. For every winner there's a loser, right? So let's go devil's advocate for a second here. I'm going to ask a question. I'm with you all with the money stuff. It hurts. It makes me feel nauseated, all that stuff. Will this be the most equipped defensive basketball team that Tray Young has ever played with? I mean, AD, he's the best room protector Trey's ever played with, unless I'm forgetting.

How many games of AD though? If they do actually play together. Ansar. What are you asking? Yeah, I mean, this could be the, I mean, the Hawks had some decent defensive teams around him, but this will be the biggest and longest team. I'm just going to say, if you were going to protect Trey, they're not in a terrible spot because you really do have to protect him and enhance him in some ways to get to balance out.

offensive stuff that you were getting, Rob. And I think in all of this, we do lose, we do lose track at times of just, he is one of the most brilliant pick and roll players in the league. He's an incredible passer. It's just he's so small that the tradeoffs hurt. This team could balance out the tradeoffs a little bit? Is that crazy? They could?

I think he's going to be good for the Wizards. I really don't think that's up for debate. It's more just how good. And do you want to bank the future of your team on him? Because with this kind of like, like, boulder around his neck and the, their neck, he's going to be a wizard for the foreseeable future. Like, this is not a very tradable contract. It's going to take a lot to get off of it if they ever want to move in that direction.

And so there's just no back door with a deal like this. You are now the Trey Young Washington Wizards at a time where you're also trying to be the AJ DeBonsa Washington Wizards. And you're also trying to be the Alexar Washington Wizards. And I don't even know if Anthony Davis is on this team or not. I guess he is. Maybe he's going to be on a long-term deal too. That's just a little scary for me, even as someone who really believes in so many of

these prospects individually. Yeah. They paid him as if their move was a success, that he reached all the heights that they're hoping to, as opposed to trading for a guy who the hawks just didn't want anymore. And so they're paying above market rate. And as we've seen, especially in this new era, below market contracts are really how you build success.

Like the Celtics are jettisoning one of their best players based off of the potential down the road of avoiding that issue. And so just how it works. works now. All right. Next one. Best under the radar move. Rob, what do you got? This one's under the radar enough. I don't know if we've mentioned it on this podcast. And that's Tari Easton resigning with the Rockets for five years, $82 million. Pretty good. He definitely thought it was undervalued. I'll say that. He certainly did. And that's how it kind of like led him into this down this road of trying to get more and more and more as any player should. Like

extract your value, get the biggest deal you possibly can. Set you and your family and your generations behind you up for life, do it. But for the rocket's perspective, Tari-Eason is a significant injury risk that's baked into this deal. It's baked into the price. It's why this number is what it is. But you're getting a first-class perimeter defender

with a streaky enough jumper to be effective and useful for just five years, 82. I would sign up for that any day of the week because if Tari-Eason can stay on the floor, this is incredible value for Houston. And if he can't, something like $16 million a year is just not going to kill you.

Like, that's just really not going to be that big of a deal. Case in point, they just dumped Dorian Finney Smith, who was not useful to the team anymore for a couple of second round picks. It was just like a non-consequence. So Tari A Easton's upside, tremendous, incredible, a playoff-altering kind of performer in terms of how he can bother guys and lock them down. And to get that for the ballpark of what John Collins is going for and Tobias Harris is going for and Julian Champ Penny, Quentin Grimes. Like, I'll take that for Tari Aston any day. In this environment, if you look at the way the game's being played in the postseason, I mean, Tari-Eason 1 through 4 switchability. I mean, I think pretty easily. Like you said, if he can space the floor even with a shot that kind of is up and down. I mean, it's up enough that I think that that that, you know, talking about trade-offs with Trey. The trade-offs aren't very painful with Tari. I mean, for that amount of money, yeah, in this environment, that's a great deal. I wonder what his other offers were, honestly. I don't understand why going for five years.

Maybe he was just worried because of his injury history that he had to lock that in. I guess you have to be worried from the rocket side that he was so game to go for five years out there. And maybe those are more serious than we've been led to believe. But like this is just like a totally middle of the road, mid-level money now sort of contract. Five years from now, this is going to look like a low-level rotation player. And he obviously plays well above that, even if he's only going to give you 50 games a year. Yeah. that's a good pick um kyle do you want to do yours this one this team didn't do a ton in the off season now

i went on spotrack to like look at all the just total transactions that they did be on the draft and that's the pacer's picking up kelly ubrae i think that's a good i think this is a good pickup um this is a guy who this past season on pretty huge volume shot 37 percent on catch and shoots um on a team that I don't think consistently generated great looks for him. I think that there's a music comparison I'm going to make here. Going to the Pacers, I don't know if you all have ever had this experience, but I in my life have had instruments, you know, in the house or whatever. And when someone who can really pick an instrument picks up something in your house,

you're like, oh, like they reveal a different side of the instrument that you have and that you try to get something out of. And you're like, oh, that's what that's capable of. that's Tyrese Halliburton when he's going to be like he's going to pick up Kelly Ubre like a guitar and be like, oh, the neck on this is incredible. This sounds great. You'd be like, oh, I didn't know he could do that. Like I just see him in the pace of their offense.

Like I think that Ubre is going to be a really good pickup for the Pacers. I like that move. And I don't know that enough was said about it. Yeah, me, he was really good for the Sixers, including in a lot of those playoff games in particular. To get him for basically room mid-level money, whether like that was kind of, of the market, whether teams were actually going to be using the room mid-level for him or not. The other guys in that range are like Colin Sexton, Kion Ellis, Zach Collins. I think Kelly Ubrek can outperform any of those guys in terms of games that actually matter.

So good business by the Pacers for sure. I always thought of Kelly Ubrey more as like something quirky, like a recorder or maybe like a mandolin. You know, something that you don't typically. Maybe, you know, like something a little bit from the future, maybe not of this time. from the future but not always applicable but you're like that's futuristic yeah yeah I like a vocoder I like that I still don't know why the Lakers

picked Colin Sexton over Ubre for similar money but weird more power to them maybe they didn't you know like maybe Kelly Ubre picked the Pacers over the Lakers these guys do have free will have you ever thought about that well I don't know the tradeoff seems very few players make that choice

but maybe someone did they're not from the future, you know? Maybe he knows the big one is coming. Maybe he knows LA is not the place you want to be. That's right. I have on the flip side of some of the Knicks penny pinching, I have Landry Shamet going for four years, $24 million with small guarantees in year three and year four. I'm just like this guy was one of the most essential role players for the title winners.

And I realized that the journey of late has been pretty mixed. He was basically falling out of the league at a certain point. like over the past two seasons, regular season and playoffs combined, shot 43, 41% from three. That's just like, that's nails. You need those sorts of player. Every team needs those sorts of player. And so I'm surprised that no one gave him more money up front that he had to take a longer deal for what is essentially like five to six million dollars a year. Like, that's a good player.

Like he's going to be good no matter where he goes. And so I thought that was a miss for a lot of teams that just had available cap and roster spots. Yeah. I mean, just a full stop quality player to have on any team, as you said, Justin. I think it's a combination of the percentage shooting. Like you love seeing a guy who can hit, you know, above 40% regularly in a playoff run, but also the timeliness of that shooting, the fact that even though he is small, you may think you can pick on him defensively, but he's competitive, he's feisty, he gets after it.

I mean, the fact that the Knicks were able to sustain having two, sometimes three, tiny guards on the court at any point in time and just scrap and fight and switch and like help each other enough to get through, I think is proof of the value of someone like Landry Schammett, who is not the kind of liability who's going to drag you down. He is context dependent. He needs other people to set him up. He's a role player, but he's a really good role player. Yeah, and I'm going to assume that he has particular fondness for this particular context, because this is a guy who has fought and clawed as much as he in the in the micro fight and claws to stay in the possessions defensively and stay on the floor.

In the macro, this guy who has had trouble sticking in the league, and he's a guy who bounced around. I mean, he came in as somebody who initially with the Clippers, it was like, okay, this is, we see the vision here. And then it was like Landry Schammett just bounced around. So, I mean, then I guess you could look at it like maybe the Knicks for saw that. And they thought, okay, we know you want to stay. We can get a good deal here.

And he, he, you know, found something that works. I would have been surprised if he would have moved on from this so quickly because it's a little bit different than Mitchell Robinson where he, he, you know, hadn't really been anywhere else. I mean, literally hadn't been anywhere else. And Shamim had has. He's seen the shit that's out there beyond those, the wall, the barrier of the fortress and the zombie apocalypse.

And he's like, I'm staying in here. This success felt good to me. I'm going to stay in New York. Yeah. You got those free adele tickets to MS. Gene. He's like, these are my people. That's all I think.

Did he get the Taylor Swift in fight, do you think? Or is it just the Nick starters who got in the door? That's what they said, right? It was just the starting lineup, which I think is amiss. Mitchell Robinson at a wedding, I bet you fucking just like, oh my God, goes nuts. You want to see anyone on the dance for? Yeah, exactly. He is going to request like purely country from the DJ if you're taking those things.

So plan accordingly, but a welcome guest nonetheless. Taylor pretended to be country for several years to start her career. Honor your previous eras, you know, a coward. This is the real way to do it. Invite Mitchell Robinson to your wedding. Please don't docks me, Taylor Swift fans. All right. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. All right. Biggest question going forward.

I feel like we can skip LeBron in this because we did a whole episode of it last time. So biggest non-Lebron question, Rob, what's yours for the rest of the summer? Well, how about the biggest post-Lebron question? And by that I mean, if you're the Warriors, if you're the Cavs, if you're the heat, the teams that strike out that don't end up getting LeBron, how many options do they really have left? You know, like it's not like there are a ton of for agents out there who you could just plug into that spot and feel really good about the quality of player, the drop-off after LeBron is significant. And so if your golden state, like if you don't get LeBron, does that make you more or less likely to investigate the Jimmy Butler trade market in a more serious way? If the Cavs do or don't get LeBron, does that affect whether they bring back James Hardin and at what financial value?

I'm kind of looking for the ripple effects of both for the team that gets LeBron, but more importantly for the teams that don't. where are the side doors here? Like what else can they get into over the back part of the summer when it seems like a lot of the business around the league is pretty much resolved right now? Yeah, I think the Warriors probably have the most to lose

in the LeBron Derby here. I just don't know what they do if he says no. Because we've seen even like the Rory Hotramurs go off the table. There's still like guys kicking around but like you're probably even reaching for a guy who's worthy of a mid-level

at this point. So there's a real dark timeline where we talked about like should the Warriors trade for Anthony Davis? I don't know if that's really their move there. They just signed Christopps. They might have to trade for Anthony Davis because it's the only move on the table.

And so, yeah, I think that's a good pick there. Yeah, I mean, LeBron is a fault line here who sort of will separate, he will sort teams into the winners or losers of the off season here because, like you were saying, this is definitely shaping up to be one of those, you know, I ask one person to the prom, and maybe I'm just going to be like,

I'm going with my friends, you know. One of those moves at the end, no offense to people who do that. No, I think you intended a lot of offense. There's some offense there. Look, I skipped prom when you're. I'm in no position to judge anybody. Did you go to a punk rock show instead? No, I was just kind of like not in the mood for love, Justin.

I was just feeling a little. I was like, you know what, I'm going to go to the movies. That doesn't sound like the Kyle I know. Always in the movie for love, this guy. Now, the Warriors definitely. It's going to put them in the position where what moves are they going to make? You know, I had the same kind of thing, questions about Denver. You could get to the end of this if they lose out.

Granted, I don't know how much they're living or dying by the LeBron sweepstakes here. But if you look at the moves that they've made, they stand to kind of come out of this looking like, all right, man, we needed to do something big here. So I think the Warriors and the Nuggets are both in the position there to lose out if they don't end up winning the LeBron's sweepstakes. The calves, I think will be okay. but I think you're right, Rob, to target that one of my big questions for the offseason. This is critically important is Justin, what are you going to do with those potatoes that you got out of the yard? Because I had some ideas, but I was just curious what people would go to Justin's Instagram.

Is that where you posted them? Yeah. Or I can send it to you via email if you want to shoot that over. The potato thirst trap is next level. The potato thirst trap. Hunger trap? I don't know what it is, but it worked. My go-go patazes.

which I've been saying to myself in the garden for three months. Yeah, harvested some nice potatoes. What's crazy about those are I just took some potatoes that I got from the grocery store. I let them sit. You get the little sprouts going. Typically, you're like, I can't eat these guys. I've thrown them away. No, no, no, my friends.

I actually, you cut them in half, you plant them, you foster them. You put your care into them. And they grow into several more. It was only like maybe two extra. of what I originally planted or whatever. Trix is great. But I don't have to buy potatoes. And right now, they're just in a dark place in my basement, just cure it.

Just waiting for me to come and just give them a little and then you put them in another dark place again. Those things last forever, man. I think you're literally describing the plot of the Martian right now. You're really just doing it and I appreciate it. No human feces involved in this one. I didn't want to ask. Regular old chicken compost, my friend. Okay, that's much better.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, little olive oil, little salt. I mean, put them in the, I like air frying, you know, like, I don't know what kind of potatoes we're talking here. There's like petite, like golden. Like Yukon. Yeah, gold. They're delicious. Yeah. You can do whatever you want. You could fry them. You can roast them. Those potatoes and Justin, but perpetually in a dark place. That's right. Was that your biggest question of the offseason, Kyle? No, I had another question. My first big question is, are the Pelicans ever going to do anything. Because clearly they sat out the deadline. They weren't a part of the draft beyond Geron-Pierre. And if they have a lot of optimism about that, you know, more power to them, you might do something.

Who knows? But that was a late second round pick. And then they don't do anything again. So clearly, we were joking. We were like, are they just sitting pat and they're just waiting? Because they have some pieces that other teams want and they just continue to not do anything. Do they know something that we don't? You know, that's my big thing.

because the decisions that they make could have an impact on some good teams. Well, let me stop you there because they did do two things. They re-signed DeAndre Jordan and they lost Kavanaugh-Luny. So, you know, they are involved in the bare minimum of stuff. But I had them as my biggest loser of the offseason so far for this reason. There are ways, as Kyle alluded to, that they can remedy that. They can get in a lot of trade conversations if they want to. This was a disastrously bad team last year.

26 wins and the solution is don't touch anything right it back baby let's go let's just keep the good energy going well clearly the issue with this franchise

dating back decades at this point was just not having the right coach in order to organize these amazing players that they have in front of them they did get Jamal Mosley in there I wouldn't say the most inventive offensive mine

in order to really like draw up something with the available talent there but maybe they're just so shell shocked based off of the trade made for Derrick Queen that they're just like actually not doing anything is our best course of action. And I have to agree to a certain extent because they've always had talented players. Like, why if everybody else wants Trey Murphy, are you getting rid of Trey Murphy or a Herb Jones or any of these guys? These are like the exact type of title minted teams or these are the ones

they're going to target. Just keep those guys and just make the best team out of them. They still have holes all over the place. Like, what are they doing at center? I don't think they have a long-term option there despite the fact that you've missy has just been kicking around for several years now jordan probably not going to play but like maybe he'll get in the mix there as he did at the end of last season for some reason i just i don't know what they're doing but i do think for this franchise doing nothing happens to be better than doing something because doing something is usually way worse so your contention is that their front office is so bad at their jobs so yeah that just like don't Don't touch anything is better than making literally any move.

I wasn't even going to say that. That's rough. Your positivity is deeply insulting. Also, I mean, by your parameters, their big off-season acquisition is like self-reflection, self-actualization, a hard look in the mirror. Well, I guess an easy look in the mirror. They're not really scrutinizing anything too closely. That's the best move. That's the best move.

Over your shoulder. Yeah. Yeah. That's the most important move, you know? I guess so. But their team, I mean, the team is still relatively young. Like, even the guys we mentioned, Deshante Murray, do they even know what he is now post-injury? And so I don't hate it overall, but you're right.

Where is this franchise going long-term? What is the vision? Who are the keepers who aren't, like, is Derek Queen even going to be a top-level guy that they're kind of banking him on him being? Who the hell knows? But, you know, this is the case with the Pelicans going back to, what, two decades now? Well, you mentioned the Nuggets before. They're definitely my biggest question because they're another team that hasn't done a ton.

They just waive Jonas Valanchunis the other day. They signed Marvin Bagley. They re-signed Tyas Jones. But all of the big questions we came into the offseason asking about this team just haven't been addressed at this point. Maybe they're waiting for Peyton Watson. And I guess this is typically how restricted free agency goes where they just wait everybody else out. No one has enough money. And you just hold this guy's feet to the fire.

And you're like, actually, no, you're going to get $5 million. dollars less because this is how this stupid mechanism works for people coming off their rookie deals. But like, Yokic, not taking an extension. Maybe that is to bank more years on his future extension, but that has to worry you because if things fall apart next year, he's just going to be a free agent. No Watson, haven't traded Brown, haven't traded Johnson. As we're recording this right now on Thursday, before they make any other moves, they currently are $7.4 million underneath the second apron with 10 player assigned. Yeah.

Gotta figure that out. Well, this is why waving Valanchunis was a foregone conclusion, despite how honestly useful he was to them, especially in the regular season. He's not a great playoff performer. He is a guy who, the deeper you go, will get picked on, will get exposed.

That's part of the experience with a lot of bigs right now. But between losing him, which is not nothing, and losing Tim Hardaway Jr. to the heat, which I thought was another one of the good, like under the radar moves for Miami in terms of what's happened so far, those are really costly,

especially when you think that Tim Hardaway Jr. was a huge reason why Christian Brown, a guy making $20 plus million a year for all of the next five years, they took him off the floor and replaced him with Tim Hardaway Jr. When Cam Johnson couldn't hit a shot, Tim Hardaway Jr., now is your time.

Who is that guy now? Where are they going to find their sufficient bench replacements that were so vital to their success in weathering last season when, as we've said many times over the course of this pot, the market right now is just not very flat. with good difference-making rotation players. And farewell to beef Borgnon. I mean, what are we,

it leaves us with a lot of questions to answer in terms of nicknames. All right, let's be a little bit more positive now. Biggest winner of the offseason thus far. Rob, you mentioned yours already, right? How was it not Trey Young? Just for cash in. I actually had one similar.

I actually have Mark Bartlesstein of Priority Sports. Yes. Just the head of Austin Brown, co-head of, CAA basketball. Makes sense. Kyle, who do you have? I had a handful. I mean, the Sixers obviously was the tie-in from the first one. I thought they did great. I thought Utah, not that they really had to think a ton about it,

but ending up with maybe the best offensive guard prospect in recent memory, that's a good ad, and then all the assets that they acquired. And then the other one was, I thought Memphis did a great job. The fact that they got something for John Morant's, They got out of the John Morant business. They got two dudes they can kick the tires on and take a look at with Grant and Murray. And then, yeah, I think they really helped out a lot of their young players with their pick too. And getting beef stew for a couple second round picks. I thought they did pretty well.

I made a video about this on my Twitter. So, yeah, Utah and Memphis, I think in particular, did pretty well. And now picked up Quentin Post, too, for three years 30, which is totally fine. But also, like, they have so many bigs. I don't know what that says about Zach Edie's availability in particular, which is clearly the elephant in the room. But I'm sure they're going to figure out in terms of who of these guys can play and in what combinations. I was thinking about this. Being Zach Edie's understudy, what is the equivalent of that in another field? Like if you're somebody's understudy and you know that you know it means you're going to be going on.

I was trying to think like Axel Rose's like backup singer. I'm trying to think like what. Yeah. Or not even to back, or maybe like the hype man who is secretly doing all of the live rap performance for the very well-known rapper. You know, it's just like, look, you're going to be called upon. You were absolutely crucial to what we do here. You're not going to get your due though, but everyone plays a role.

Keith Richards' guitar tech. It's the younger guy back behind the shadow actually playing the parts. I don't know that for sure. Sorry, Keith Richards, but yeah. Quentin Post, Isaiah Stewart, Taylor Hendricks, Stephen have Olivier Max Prosper. still, who was functionally a center, I guess, towards the end of last season. I have to imagine, like, maybe one, they're just taking good available players when they can get them. And it's funny because the Grizzlies, apparently, there's only a few couple

offer sheets that have been signed and actually conveyed from restricted free agents. And, like, the Grizzlies are four of the past five. So, shout to them for actually doing the work. But also, maybe they just think, like, loading up on centers because everybody needs centers in this current environment is a long-term play for assets, but they have so many players. They're basically like a three-deep at every position right now. Maybe they're just going to be ultra-deep. If depth is important, they're going to be the deepest team possible where they're going 10 to 11 every night.

I don't know. Can I shout out a couple more winners? Yeah. I still haven't done mine. Oh, here's first. I have more honorable mentions. Well, Kyle mentioned it there. I think Utah clearly just knocked it out of the park this off season.

Kessler would have been interesting in the, in the, refurbished front court that they've established there, but just being able to take everything off the Lakers in order to get him off there. And they still have an interesting team. They still need to figure out center. I don't know of Jaron Jackson's like the full time there, but Yusuf Nurkich was so good at the end of last season that they actually had to shut him down along with Jaron Jackson, Laurie Markman. So maybe there's something still there to tap into. Bringing him back for, I think it was two years 22 for Yusuf Nerkich. He way outperformed that with the guy he was last season. shouts to him and his agent too thought he was left for dead two to three seasons ago you and me both

um Darren Peterson we'll talk about him probably more next week but it looks like it's pretty good looks like he belongs in the little summer league that he's played thus far I know Kyle's been watching oh boy yeah oh my goodness working on something now so I'll save some of it also tianti George just wanting to coach summer league I thought was one of the best stories of the Of the Yonzi's man, coach. Why won't they let him coach? I think that's smart on Utah's side because I think the early stuff you heard about Kianti's sort of relationship with, you know, the work. This is pretty smart.

Keeping him engaged with that side of it, I think, is pretty wise by the jazz. So just kind of like extend the offer, get him involved, keep him involved. It's smart on their part, I think. Well, a wise attempt anyway. Supposedly he will not be allowed to coach in Summer League, which is what are we doing? Like, we used to live in a world where they nailed Nate Robinson's summer league jersey to the wall and said it was retired. And now we won't even let Keonté George coach a fake game. Let me ask a very simple question.

Who gives a shit? Just let him coach. That's what I'm saying. Seriously, who gives a shit? But great for the vibes. Like, obviously, that pairing with Peterson is going to be important for them. Just like, just hanging out, just like drawing up plays and in the practice huddles. Like, that's good stuff.

The jazz, like, honestly, there's a lot of, like, hope going there and, like, there's a lot of good things happening. And, like, I'm excited to watch the jazz probably for the first time since the Donovan Mitchell trade. What is that, like, five years ago at this point? Well, and a lot of winners within that, right? Like, if you're Lowry Markinen and you've just been biting your time waiting for this team to be good again, if you're Will Hardy, who, frankly, I think has been kind of held back in some respects from trying to make the jazz good. And every time he tries to, they usually get a little too good, too fast. I'm eager to see what happens with him in this kind of team.

I just think there are so many people involved in that operation in Utah right now who are deserving of a chance to play good, honest, competitive basketball for the first time in a while. Do you remember that Kurt Vonnegut story that Harrison Bergeron? Did you all ever read that where Harrison Bergeron was this like seven-foot kid who was like a genius and he was, you know, good, but he lived in this society where they intentionally handicapped everybody to average. So anyone that was a remarkable guy, you can read into what they were trying to do there. But I feel like Will Hardy, the past few years that's been like Harrison Bergeron, where they were like, ah, not so fast. We got to, we got to tamp down that those good ideas.

He's going to be like somebody let out of basketball prison. It's going to be a great time for him. Was that this story of Zach Eady that you were just describing, just being large and average? They just wanted to be average, but he's only exceptional in everything he tries to do. Yeah, yeah. Any other winners? How about Demar de Rosen getting waived by the Kings? Play literally anywhere else.

And I think it's going to be a significant upgrade for him. Iodosumu, stretching this back a bit, but going from like salary negotiation hell with the Bulls to guaranteed five years, $112 million with a playoff team that actually needs you. Huge come up for Ayur dosumu. And Rui Hachamura, who clearly wanted to live in L.A. and still got his money. Incredible work by him. Nice work.

All right. Losers now. Who are the biggest losers of this offseason? I already did mine. Mine was the Pelicans. Do we have any other losers we want to hit? I have a few here. First and foremost,

union leadership that led the CBA negotiations last time. Because we're now at the point where there's a hard cap and every owner is acting as if there is a hard cap and is suppressing the value of players left and right. Every owner can just be like, oh man, this hard cap, I hate this. Whose idea was this? They can look around and just defer the blame? It's just like secretly they're like, I kind of love this hard cap.

This is great. That already existed in other forums. It was the same thing before. It was just NBA owners talking about like, oh, the luxury tax. Oh, the repeater. Like there's been some version of it in the last two CBAs at the very least. It's definitely more extreme at this point where if you hear any owner talk about the second apron, they think it's like going bankrupt essentially.

It's like it is a hard and fast line that you. you don't cross because there are other penalties. And so they could stand up there and say like, oh, it's not just my pocketbook. It's like we freeze the draft picks. You can't make this sort of trade and that thing. It's basically giving them an out in order to not go past it in a way that luxury tax was an artificial one. It was like a, it was like a line in the sand that you could just put your foot over and go over that anytime you wanted. You're absolutely right. Like the propagandizing of the apron, which is so like labyrinthine in its construction that casual, a lot of casual Even sometimes I'm like, okay, what are the second apron restrictions again?

Like there are so many things involved with each level of the apron and where it caps you, depending on what you have or have not done previously, that it's so easy to hide behind it in a way where I completely agree with that part, Justin. It's like only saying I don't want to pay this money because of the tax is such a transparent kind of like phony ownership, whereas saying, oh, we're trying to stay smart and flexible. is like a projection of a progressive kind of thinking as far as running an NBA team goes that is clearly just like financial cowardice in a lot of cases. We're in the optionality era. Yeah. Apparently. You're also not allowed to smile.

That was one of the, I saw that on, I didn't know that on Spott Trek. If you're in the second apron, you're not allowed to smile. I thought that was severe. Well, just quickly, just also on top of that, I think the Supermax, if it wasn't the worst thing that's happened in recent years, is. has been even more bludgeoned because we had the class of players, the Anthony Davis is that Paul George in Indiana who are basically like, this fifth year doesn't move me. I'm actually going to force my way out or you had teams unwilling to sign them to it because it was too much

and you trade them before anything. And now we have examples like Jalen Brown who like this is what it was made for. You keep a player that you home grew and he got to the point where like he could go elsewhere or you could pay him a little bit more. And that's why you keep those guys. Now you're getting rid of those contracts because they're not viable unless you're one of the top five to 10 players in the league. And so the Supermax seems dead even more so than it ever did before. Yeah. I mean, this was one of the things that Brad Stevens raised in that press conference that actually do kind of agree with just on a philosophical level is the idea that if you do have homegrown Supermax players, they should take up a smaller percentage of the cap hit than what they're

actually paid. Like let these guys get their supermax. Yes. supermax money, but promote the kind of retention that will allow good teams to stay together. Because otherwise, what are we really doing this stuff for? If you have a certain length of service, you should only count like 25 against the cap, but you should be making 35% of the cap. That sort of like discount, at least in the accounting of it all, there should be something there. Otherwise, there's no reason to give it to these guys because you're constantly going to be afraid that they're not going to live up to it. And so it sets a really bad standard

for players because if you're not a top five player, then you're probably going to be like on the chopping block just because of how much you make. Kyle, what do you have? I don't know that they're like a down and out because we talked about some of these other teams that lost and had a tough time. I don't know that they're down and out,

but I didn't love their offseason. That's Detroit. I mean, I like the fact that they went and got Abuco Corey in that trade. I like that they got Isaiah Joe. Javante Green, I think, is more of a dude than people give him credit for. I don't understand the easy.

eagerness to re-sign Kevin Herder win in like 45. He couldn't get on the floor most of the time in the playoffs. And then when he did, it was 45 total minutes, six points, two turnovers, and seven assists. I mean, happy for those seven assists. But it was mostly bad. So I didn't, I thought that that money maybe could have been directed elsewhere. And I was optimistic when they went and got him. I was like, hey, maybe this will work.

But I didn't totally understand that. And then, you know, John Collins, you know, Tobias wanted to leave apparently. Yeah. That was reported. understand him going to the spurs. We should have mentioned that as one of the better moves. I like that one. But Detroit just kind of feels like the momentum that they had,

and then they have kind of just some taint in the water with the whole, you know, with whole Jalen Duren situation. It just doesn't feel like it was momentum maintained in this offseason for Detroit. Yeah, of all the things that you described, I think the Isaiah Joe one is really the only one I feel positive about basically at all. Otherwise, like John Collins has always had a whiff of empty stats to his box score production.

Like, we'll do things that are genuinely impressive and amazing. And then you zoom out and it's like, how do I actually feel about this guy's minutes on the court? And it's rarely overjoyed. And otherwise, they just brought it a bunch of fake shooters, not just Kevin Herder, but then they flipped Karris Levert for Gary Harris and Tori and Prince, two guys who, as the Bucks have demonstrated, you just can't rely on, even when they are healthy, to be functional, important players of your team. and gave up beef stew who we've already talked about was important to their identity.

Granted is going to be expensive to keep around if Jalen Dern is also coming back on a massive deal, which I assume he will at some point or another. They're still hashing all that out. So it's just where is the step forward when they're doing so much treading water just to not take steps back? And they're still taking steps back. Yeah, it seems like they went to the off season looking to replicate what they already had as opposed to spinning it forward into something different. And I thought they hit that point last year in the playoffs where

the diminishing returns of being the biggest, baddest, most physical team, just like you can only go so far where you just have to have the offense in order to counterbalance that. There's still like some moves that they could make, because as a part of all these weird, like this six team trade that helped them

get off of Carus Lavert, they opened up cap. If they just end up spending that on Dern, I think 100%, they're probably the biggest loser of the offseason, considering the stakes and considering where they are in their trajectory. Right now, I'm more like an incomplete. I'm going to wait and see if, like, they actually do something with that, but like they need to. They're one of those teams that needs to do something.

Otherwise, we're looking at a backslide here, not a step forward. Agreed. I also have the Brooklyn Nets down here, which is tough because I feel like I've tried to rationalize what they've been doing for a while. I felt like even less offseason, you could look back at that as success because I think the Cam Johnson trade ultimately ended up working in their favor to a large degree. But there are only so many moves on the margin and small victories you can make before you really have to stop and like wonder what you're doing in the big

picture. I just don't get it. Like maybe Julius Randall for free is like something like three dimensional chest that I don't see where he just has all this untapped value. I doubt it, but probably not. Like Keanu is fine. There's just like all these fine moves.

I just don't know how they get to the next level. And even the things that were on the table didn't seem like they're interested in, like, why weren't they in the mix for Jalen Brown? Why aren't they in the mix for any sort? Like, what is the future of this team right now? And so I think they have to be, along with the Pelicans, one of these teams at the bottom, who are not only bad, but also kind of directionless, which is the worst place to be.

Well, if they did get in the mix for Jalen Brown, other than him taking 30 shots a game because who else would shoot, like what is the value? What is even the value of having a player like him when the rest of your roster is this unsettled and incomplete? lead. So yeah, I'm with you. I don't really see the pieces coming together here. They are so far out from being a team of any kind of relevance whatsoever. And for that reason, too, I think Julius Randall is a huge loser of this offseason, some of his own making based on the way he performed and really conducted himself in the playoffs, just kind of like imploded in terms of his ability to function as a part

of a high, like an actually good playoff team. But to go from the wolves who had something to compete for to now being a guy who's co-piloting the Brooklyn Nets. That's just a really steep fall for Julius Randall. I don't get it. Sean Mark's the best job security in the NBA right now. Apparently. Yeah. It's a good gig if you can get it. All right. Anything else for you guys? I have a couple other, well, one other quick loser of note. Jonathan Cumminga going from, I hope I can land on a place where someone believes in me to pick up this team option and maybe even give me an extension to the bell of the ball. I mean, I mean the bell of maybe this stage of for agency once LeBron goes, once James Harden goes, you know, like, who else is there to look

around at the market and see and talk yourself into other than Jonathan Camingo? So maybe there's a silver lining here, but it's just been such a tough fall for him, not finding any team, any front office that really believes in him enough to invest in the way that I'm sure he would have liked to be invested in. Early July is for the superstars, man. It's for LeBron. It's for Janus, all the guys that we've been talking about over the past week or so. Late July into August, that's Jonathan Kaminga time, baby. First, it was last year's contract negotiations that extended way too long, and it got way too many podcast segments and ESPN hits than anyone could ever imagine.

Now we're at the point where the minimum just derby is underway here. Because it seems like that's the best course of action for Kaminga where it's like, go, Lakers might be able to carve out some cap space if you just take the absolute minimum or go to this competitive team and try to latch on and be the type of player that you have never been up until this point. It's just, it's sad. He's a talented guy. He's doesn't seem like he's ever fallen into the right situation in order to be who he

wants to be or even get like a tryout for it. Yeah. Well, so I've heard the conspiracy theory that LeBron is drawing out his process to really, like, create many more sports news cycles out of his potential free agency. what I'm hearing from you is that Cumminga is like even three steps ahead of that he's thinking what is the unexplored real estate that literally no other NBA player

at once that I can dominate for weeks on end as we do the Jonathan Cominga sweepstakes and frankly as content creators we have no choice but to support it. Smart on his part. Yeah. One other big loser

the listeners of group chat because we're transitioning into a summer schedule. Ah. We will be back next week. And then I think from there it's going to be a little bit more touch and go as we tried to take some time off. So next week we'll be talking about Summer League, probably some other stuff happening around the league. Not sure what day yet. Maybe middle of the week?

Not sure. Text Rob. If you've, if you, or email Rob, ask for his number and then call him and be like, hey, Rob, can you give you the minute by minute? Maybe we should set up like a voice. that people can call into. Yeah. It's just you giving the update like the weather used to be reported.

Like the movie phone guy, but for group chat. Yeah, I like that. Honestly, it's not a bad bit for us. I mean, we do still have the existing email address, ringer group chat at gml.com.

I mean, I guess just give us stuff we could do episodes about because we're going to need it over the coming months. If you have weird bits, weird, like premises for an episode, I'm all ears, frankly.

Why don't you just tell me the next recording date that you guys are going to do? All right. Thank you to Victoria Valencia. Thank you, Stefan Anderson for filling in on production. We'll be back next week.

Talk to you then.