The Ringer NBA Show - The Best and Worst NBA Offseasons So Far With Kevin O'Connor (Ep. 132)

Episode Date: July 11, 2017

The Ringer's Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor report live from summer league in Las Vegas to discuss the major story lines from the first weekend of games, and to rank the best and worst NBA offseasons so far. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me on this Tuesday from the 27th floor of the win overlooking the Las Vegas mountains. Kevin O'Connor, Kevin. Chris, this is surreal right there. It is surreal. What is also surreal is you and I doing a podcast in person. For those of you that have listened to us throughout the regular season of the NBA

and then throughout the playoffs, we've been doing this Ringer NBA show for the entire season. Kevin and I had never met in person until this week at the Las Vegas Summer League. So this is great to finally get to do a podcast in person instead of over a phone. Good thing we didn't record. The Raptors blow it up one in person. One of us wanted to get tossed out the window. That's right. This has been great being at Summer League.

Obviously an opportunity to talk to all kinds of people around the league and see tons of basketball. Let's start with Summer League. It seems to me just bouncing around in terms of. players. And we'll get to everything that's happened in the league. Kevin wrote an article about the best and worst offseason so far. But walking around and talking to people just specifically about players, I hear a ton of Tatum so far in this Las Vegas summer league. I hear Donovan Mitchell from Utah and I hear Dennis Smith Jr. from Dallas.

It seems like when talking to people about who has really stood out to you, because you always have to take into perspective, I think you know, with this summer league stuff, that being great in the summer league or having a great summer league, there's a history of guys that when you look back in time, it doesn't, it doesn't add up. Like, here's the leading scorers from the different summer leagues for the last, whatever, 10 years. Nicholas Skeetishvili, J.R. Smith, Randy Foy, Marcus Banks, Jared Bayliss, Anthony Randolph, John Wall.

there's a great one. Sean Wall. Damian Lillard, there's a great one. Dwight Bukes, Glenn Rice, Jr., Seth Curry, Trey Liles. So it's clearly not the end-all

be-all to kill people in Summer League. That being said, this was a rookie class that was very, very looked forward to. And I kind of feel like Tatum and Dennis Smith, Jr. are the two that people have been most impressed with.

Dennis Smith has been really, really good. Like I think you just see him in this environment right now compared to NC State. And at NC State he had two big men on the floor at all times. And now he's playing with a more spaced floor, high pick and roll action. He has the ability to drive and create and get to wherever he wants on the floor. And that's such a significant difference. And now you're seeing him here. And you're imagining him with Nerlens Noel rolling down the lane.

And Dirk Novitsky, you know, spacing the floor. And West Matthews is in the corner. And you're like, whoa, this guy, he, A lot of people felt he has a chance to be the best player in the draft. He's starting to look like it already. Well, you have seen some people already say, hey, this kid could have a chance at winning rookie of the year this year. A, great coach.

B, good culture, right? And he's going to be around Rick Carlisle and he's going to be around Dirtnevitzky. And C, they're going to give him the keys. By all accounts, talking to the people in Dallas in their games, I was trying to bounce around and talk to them, that they have decided. they're going to let him go and they're going to give him the keys. It's not going to be a rookie that sits and collects dust for his first season.

He is, I believe, the highest draft pick they have had since they traded up to get Devin Harris. And by all accounts, I was talking to Tim McMahon from ESPN. He said, I cannot remember an athlete that the Mavericks have had like this, which is strange because you think they have been a – this was a consistent playoff team for a decade, 50 plus wins over and over again. And they haven't really had, maybe Devin Harris would be the comparable athlete. But this kid looks, I mean, he certainly looks.

My first impression of him is, man, I'd be surprised if he's not awesome. Yeah. I think Rick Harlisle had a quote the other day in an article. He said, his eyes light up when you turn on NBA film. And that kind of alludes to like, I think we just kind of talked about where like the NBA spacing, will unlock him. Yeah. Just from the environment he came from an NC State to now.

It's going to be such a drastic difference where obviously like any young point card is going to have some difficulties adjusting to the pace of the game, the speed of the game and all that, whatever. But the fact is is that Dennis Smith is a, you know, a guy. You put him downhill in the pick and roll and he's really, really, really hard to stop. The other thing was there is, he had some background stuff where there were some worries about him. Like people thought off court stuff. Yeah, I don't know if it was.

Off course as much as like on court, like effort wasn't always there. Well, and he's got a very strange situation. And the backstory has been written before. I'm sure somebody will do a big story on it at some point, especially as he exposed. Raised by a single dad, which is very uncommon amongst NBA players. And so they wondered about like, he is so talented. He could jump off, he jump out of the gym, et cetera. And I was told that they have like a psych doctor that does the interviews.

Dallas. And they were a little worried that the psych doctor is going to go talk to this kid and that they're and he's going to flag him for something. Right? Because why is he they saw the talent and everything. And so what is it? Right. What's going on here? And I was told the psych doctor walked out and told Cuban and the rest of the guys that is one of the best interviews I've ever done in my life.

With Dennis Smith. Yes. Unbelievable, right? So they were worried going into. Yes. Okay. That something must be awry here. Because why is this kid?

Yeah. Why is this kid? Why would he be available at us? Yeah. Right? Because you wonder, right, with anybody. Because there were people saying there was, it was a common refrain that he could be better than his draft position going in.

And the psych doctor walked out and said that's one of the most impressive interviews I've ever done. I've talked to a couple of executives, you know, near the top of the draft, near the middle of the draft and like a hand. full of them and said, I wish we had a chance at Dennis Smith. I wish, like, we were in a range where we could take him. He was like, you know, top five was too high, not going to fall to 10 to 17 range. Yep.

He was just right there in the middle, right there for the plucking for Dallas and for the next and they missed out. But we'll see what happens how this goes. We also talked about Tatum. I will tell you, I talked to an unnamed NBA player because everybody's here. And I got to talking about Tatum. It was actually after the Los Angeles Celtics game where Lonzo had the triple double, etc. Right.

And unnamed NBA players said to me the first thing I said, what did you think about Tatum? And of course, eyes light up. And this person has literally no involvement or care about the Celtics. And then the second thing he said was he's already better than Jalen. And I was like, what? Yeah, I would agree with that.

You think? Yeah, I agree with it. How do you think they sift that out in terms of minutes? because it's like Jay Crowder and Gordon Hayward and Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum. And Jalen Brown, listen, it is not like he does not look like a fantastic prospect still. He does. It's just you watch some of the Tatum stuff and it's different. He is so polished.

He's just so, like if you put everybody on a graph, right? Right. of like, I guess, how should we frame this? How about, like, with footwork at 19 years old, Tatum would be an outlier in terms of footwork, just footwork. Yeah, that's all. I'm not talking about obviously scoring,

but just footwork, he's an outlier. And I think in that sense, like, that's why he's been so damn impressive just creating a shot against anybody. And, like, it's not going to be so easy against NBA players,

but Jaylon is just so much more raw. And I don't think he has quite the feel that Tatum does. So I think in that sense, that's where Tatum is just so far ahead. Athletically, obviously, Brown is ahead. You know, body-wise, he's ahead. And so that matters a lot, but just pure game, Tatum's ahead.

Anybody else player-wise really stand out to you so far? I like Malik Beasley. Interesting. You know what? I forgot about him. I mean, I went in liking him, so like a part of it might have to do with that, but he's also been impressive. I think Beasley...

Did he even log minutes? Fairly any. Yeah. So he's a guy. I think, so like when they were involved, like in Paul George conversations, like I, like, tweeted out, like, I would want Malik Beasley in any deal. I just think he's going to be a really good player. I just think his, A, like he talked about, you know, Dennis Smith, like personality-wise, Beasley is off the charts, like great kid. First of all, and then obviously great three-point shooter off the catch, good defender, can defend multiple positions.

He just does so many things well. Like he's going to at least be at worst, like a three-and-e guy, and then maybe he can build on that and become an even better player. Interesting you say that and bring up Denver because he was, they got a lot of really fun prospects and then they've added the great veteran and Paul Millsap, Yokic could take a massive leap forward. Yokic, who was already great, you could see him doing the Greek freak thing. Yeah. Where this is the first all-star appearance and now it's the first all-star appearance of very many, especially getting to play next to Millsap, who is a great passer in his own right, those two guys. interestingly enough, I wonder how much I thought they just run the offense to them. Because in the conversations I've had about the Nuggets, it has come back to Moudier and nobody has a high opinion, Kevin.

Nobody, like he hasn't come along at all really. Nobody has a high opinion of Mudier. And I'm talking about people that would know have, and I don't know if it's a work ethic thing or if it's obviously the, he has some interesting. injuries last year. Yeah. The percentage is very poor, but point guard is still going to be, I think, an Achilles heel for Denver this upcoming year or could possibly dependent upon how they play it out. But that's the one position.

They got so many fun prospects. You like Beasley. They got Jamal Murray. They got Yokic. They got some fun stuff going on in Denver. Juan Hernon Gomez, a guy I like a lot. I mean, they have so much damn. talent even like will barton coming off the bench i'll tell you this if they would have gotten

george hill different world yeah yeah i that would have been a good fit for them i reported that they were going to be chasing him but i thought i thought they would have an opportunity but i guess he signed like a deal that he couldn't pass up granted well no the deal he couldn't pass up was the one in utah and he did yeah he did pass on it yeah that's like four and eighty denver's got a lot of good things happening for them i mean the ell you mentioned the point guard position but it's like they have so much of everything else i know it's like i think eventually the they'll be able to plug in that point guard when there are so many point guards in the league. It's unfortunate they don't.

Look, Moodye could be one. I mean, he's still young. He's only 21 years old. So, like, it's not like any of us should be giving up on him. But obviously, he hasn't quite progressed to where you would like him to be considering the situation that they're in when they could make a push for the playoffs, even in the loaded west, like it was seven or eight seed. I wonder if they would try to run Jamal. I don't. I don't like Jamal Maury as a point card.

You don't. No, I don't. I know a lot of people view him as that. but I think he's just more of it too. That's one of the reasons why. But could he if you've got the two awesome point forward point center types. Yeah, sure. With Yokeach and Millsap, right?

So that's the appeal where, like, he's not a point guard, but he plays the role of one of the multiple ball handlers. Can you get the ball past half court? Yeah, pretty much, where it's like you have multiple guys that run your offense. And that's really the type of basketball I really like in today's league where you don't have one primary ball handler and multiple guys doing things. So in that sense, sure. He can be your quote unquote point guard

But I don't like him if you're expecting him to be like the Primary ball handler That really initiates most of the offense I just like Murray running around screens and just spotting up Just just really I think Using his gravity to space the floor against the defense There is nobody I've seen that's a highly ranked prospect Or one of those high picks in the draft

That I have thought to myself Oh man this is not going to be what I thought it was right I've seen I've seen Fox and I think to my myself as I watch him. My God, when he figures it out, the kid's going to be a superstar. Like, I really believe that. He looks so good. Ball, you know, had that miserable first game, but he's got what we thought he's got. Tatum, same way. Fultz, in the very short amount of time, got to see him. Same thing. But it might be down to your best buddy, Lori Markinen, before I was like,

oh gosh. Yeah. Because he was the one that the huge spotlight was on anyway because of the Jimmy Butler deal. Last night was like 0 of 10 and he missed everything. He got killed two games in a row. Ryan Kelly beat him up and then John Collins last night. Damn. It's rough so far for him. I think he's the old like I mean when we're going down the list of the guys that I have

seen so far, all of them look and then you get in and then even you make the jump to Dennis Smith. All of them look like even Donovan Mitchell like Bama. at a bio and Orlando is playing well. Ata bio. Even like go down the list like to the other guys. Ata bio looks fantastic. He looks great, yeah.

He looks exactly like he's the kind of guy that you would love because he is block shots, rebound, super high motor. Rim run, you know, gets in front of the rim. Great motor too. Good hands. I like BAM a lot. Great motor. I'm a big fan.

And who was the one you mentioned before that? Donovan Mitchell. In love with him. I feel like everybody loves Mitchell. I asked around about him. And I said, I asked somebody, I was like, what do you know about Donovan Mitchell? And the first thing they said to me, and this is very, very, very, very, very high praise. Said Patino loved him.

And I only say that, forget whatever your opinion is of Rick Patino. Tino's not in love with everybody. Let's just be honest. He's not in love with, he ain't in love. He is not one that is effusive in praise to the point where he would come out and tell everybody I really love this kid. But that kid is special. Maybe more so, and the first Summer League, the one that they played in Orlando, he was off the chart. Or was it Utah.

They might have played in the Utah one. He was off the chart when I saw him on NBA TV. I mean, he was hitting daggers. He plays with a real motor. And the funny thing is what Mitchell is like he never became a full-time basketball player until he was junior in high school. So he doesn't have the years that some of these other guys have. And his defense, like, look, even if his offense never gets better for, where it is right now, his defense will allow him to have a long career because he's that good

on that end of the floor. So if you take Mitchell at what he is now, and this is why I viewed him as one of like the nine or ten guys that have a chance of being the best player in the draft, because if you take where he is now and you project how he improved from his freshman year at Louisville to his sophomore year and then you project forward, he has shown the ability to create off the dribble. You mentioned the dagger shots he's hit. He has the ability to playmate a little bit, but he's really more score first guard. Just projecting ahead, there's a chance. There is a chance that he ends up the best player in the draft.

And I think, you know, everything Utah did this offseason, and obviously, you know, sucks for them. They're losing Gordon Hayward. But that trade moving up to draft Mitchell might have been like one of the best moves of the offseason, in my opinion, trading 24 and Trey Liles to move up to 13. Because Mitchell was like the guy that I would be angling the trade up for. So like I'm biased here. Yeah.

But I just love that move for them for that particular reason. I think it could go down as one of those low-key best moves that when we look back a couple years from now that nobody's talking about it, trading up for Donovan Mitchell could be the best move. I really wanted to see Harry Giles because you know from this class, he was one of them that was once upon a time

people thought Harry Giles was the best player in the class. People thought maybe this kid could be, like the comps in high school were Chris Weber. And obviously he's been cut on a lot of times he's had really bad luck injury-wise. That being said, he's not playing. So I haven't gotten to see him. I have seen the Kings twice.

I mentioned already what I thought about Fox. Frankie Mason was great last night. Yeah. And he's got energy. He was the lowest drafted AP player of the year out of college basketball ever. That's a good fun fact. How about that? I don't know that.

Because you watch him and like, what the hell do these guys? I don't care. They put your age around. you're like a scarlet letter. Yeah. And like what do you need to see from Frank Mason to know that he does not suck, right? Like it's just a matter of how good he is going to be. Where he's going to be a solid backup point card.

Yes. Right? And he was really good. And it reminds you when you see a guy like that. They're just, and you can really tell a difference, even when it comes to Summer League, of the more experienced players. They just look like they've got a better feel for the game. They look more in control.

They look more like they belong. They're more aggressive. Right. They're not scared of anything. They've played in these massive environments, high leverage situations. So this summer league thing is not a big deal to them. And then you do see some of the younger kids and they're just, they're like deer in the headlights, even in a summer league because it's like, okay, this is different. You know, that's the interesting thing.

You know, you're touching on there, Chris, because like, so Mason went 34, right? Right. If you asked me before the draft, I would have said Mason would get drafted. But if you asked me who historically would probably be, like, drafted first? Frank Mason or a guy like Kobe Simmons, a raw point guard from Arizona, really underdeveloped, but an elite athlete, you can see the potential with him. I would have probably said Kobe Simmons would get drafted ahead of Frank Mason, just because Frank Mason's older.

Right. He is who he is, people would say, right? Yep. Whereas Kobe Simmons, you see the potential. And Simmons didn't even get drafted. So that surprised me. The Grizzlies have signed him to a two-way deal. He is going to be the Memphis Hustle point guards. First year for Memphis Hustle, right?

And obviously, I've been to all their games. Very intriguing. You know, shots a little flat, but he is, he's got great size. He is super fast. Yeah, he is. And he is. I'm not a fan. You're not?

Personally, no. You're not? Absolutely is a good feel. I'm a big feel guy. I'm a big feel guy. So, like, he's the type of guy. You're about to feel my knuckles. Come on.

I'm dying over here. I need Kobe Simmons to be great. He's one of those types of guys you want to use on a two-way contract. Like that's the great benefit of those. Come on. I'm talking myself into Kobe Simmons here. Come on, man. Yeah, I mean, look, maybe he learns how to play basketball.

Oh, great. That's all I did. Enough about Kobe Simmons. Back to the original point. I do think that there is some, though they're dropping to the second round, there is a little bit of this. I think some of these guys, maybe some that would have even go lower like the Frank Masons of the world that they now some of these teams look and how many times

have I chronicled this whether it is Chandler Parsons or it's Draymond Green or it's Jay Crowder or it's not last year Malcolm Brockton I'm talking guys that were players of the year in major conferences right you have established amongst your peers of what is in most cases filled with talented players within those Power 5 conferences is that you were the best amongst those, right? And that teams have got all of those guys that I just mentioned, you know, Chandler Parsons, SEC player of the year, second round, Draymond and Jay Crowder, respectively Big Ten and Big East.

Last year, Brogden, ACC player of the year. We had three of them at least taken in the second round. Frank Mason, you had, who was AP player of the year, you had Dylan, Pac-12. Not a big fan of him either. Of course you're not. Also, Cendarius Thornwell, who you know I love. and was great in the first game against the Clippers.

But one of those three guys, or maybe multiple of those three guys, is we are going to look back and we are going to go. For sure. They were drafted too low. How can you miss when they have a college body of work that there is, so many of these guys always want to hit the grand slam rather than the double. And that's why Brogden goes in the second round. And that's why Draymond goes in the second round.

And that's why. But I'm telling you, of those three guys, Mason Brooks and Thornwell. Two of them at least will have long NBA careers, I believe. It's odd. The draft is weird. It's a very weird thing because, like, you look at even some of the other guys. So I'm just, I have the draft up here, like guys like Jonah Bolden,

Shemmy O'Jule, go down the list, Damien Dotson, Sterling Brown, like these guys who project easily into that crucial, important piece of a championship team. that's the three and D role players. Right. And a lot of those guys can be more than that. So it's surprising to me that so many of them slip into the second round when we all know how important they are. So it's a little weird to me that you continue to see, you know, the Caleb Swanigan's and Tony Bradley's, the Tyler Lydon's going ahead. And I'm not saying that they shouldn't.

Yeah. Because I like Swanigan and I like Tony Bradley. But it's just a little weird to me that those guys do dip as far as I do, especially Sterling Brown, fall into 46. I love that, dude. I'm stunned he fell as far as he did. And I think he's looked pretty solid. And in the limited Milwaukee bucks I've seen so far. Anything else particularly stand out to you about Las Vegas Summer League so far while we're here?

It's a circus. It's a circus. It's your first one? Yeah, first one. Me too. Never been here. It's a total circus. It's amazing.

So the first game I went to was on Saturday because I got in late Friday and I'm seeing the games that day. And the first game was Celtics Lakers. And the crowd, it was like a Lakers playoff. game and from what everybody here's telling me is like they've never seen a game at las biggest summer league like that either just the interest is so high right now like even yesterday yesterday's lakers kings game people were cheering at like cheering like cheering like crazy towards the end of that game it was fun and that was everybody wanted to see fox versus ball yes in this environment we didn't see lonso or any leaker really for that matter unfortunately yeah

we did not Thomas bryant was out there hustling like always I like him we did not that's a guy that killed his draft stock yeah he should have come out the year before maybe i mean i i think i think he should have he probably should have yeah he probably should have he should have okay yeah he should have this was a stack draft you know i mean numbers went against him if maybe he should have stayed another year but but with the coaching changes i'm sure didn't want to deal with that neither did ogy nanoby they did not want to or i mean in terms of what you were saying the the amount of people they're there everybody wanted to see fox versus ball uh and that be revisited in the summer league so we didn't get to see that but to your

original point, which is that you were at Celtics Lakers. So I was talking to some fans that were, that day, there were games. Everything is wall to wall. It starts around 1 o'clock out here. And then it goes all the way until 10.30. And there's just games. And there's two adjoining gyms, the Cox Pavilion and Thomas and Mac Center. By the way, shout out to UNLV.

The facilities are fantastic. They are. I really think that. It's really nice. Really nice setup. It's great to be able to bounce. between the two gyms, everything going on. But what I was saying is the fans that I saw,

they said they've been coming to it for the last five to ten years. They come every year. And they just walk up to the box office and they buy a ticket for the day. So they walked up on Saturday to get the ticket to go in to watch the games all day. No tickets available.

Sold out. Sold out. Unbelievable. Okay. Sold out. They walked around outside and there are scalpers outside. Now, I don't know if these guys got, you know, rused or whatever, but they said they shopped around to find tickets.

And once you get the ticket, you're in for the day, right? 200 bucks apiece. So I heard. That's what they paid. I heard one of those scalpers was trying to buy credentials off somebody. How much? I have no idea. One reporter who I obviously won't say their name said to me that the scalper was like,

how much for your credential? That's like some... That's ridiculous. Yeah, I know, seriously. It's got your picture on. I just like ready to continue walking on by. Your picture is on the potential. No kidding. No kidding.

How much? Yeah, how much? Chris is going to be like, for sale, walking around outside Thomas and back today. It's for sale. Taking, taking bids now. It's going to depend on these slot machines. Yeah, exactly. I need to buy my flight home.

That's right. All right. So summer leagues of ours, been a great time. Kevin O'Connor wrote an article. about the best and worst off seasons. And I will tell you, Kevin, there is a glaring omission that is just appalling. We'll get to it right after these words. Podcast today brought to you by Hotel Tonight.

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Pick up a few pairs. Go to sacksunderware.com. That's sacks with two X's SAX, SAX, underwear.com slash NBA. 20% off your first purchase, Sacksunderware.com slash NBA. All right, Kevin, so you wrote about the five best off seasons, the five worst off seasons.

I guess, man, how do I put this lightly? Why do you hate Sam Presti in the Oklahoma City Thunder? Okay, so let me just say this. Oklahoma City should be there. With the timing of how the article was written. What do you mean the timing?

You write it five weeks ago? Yeah, yeah, I wrote it right a month ago? Seven months ago. Last year when I got hired, that's what I wrote this last August. No, no, really, just with the timing, it's been super, super busy in Vegas. And the initial plan was kind of to do like all 30, but that was like way too long. So with the timing of everything, it was getting late in the day yesterday. I liked my Atlanta Hawks right up.

I liked that blurb a lot. So he kept that there and Oklahoma City got bumped. But look, some of the Oklahoma City thoughts are scattered throughout the other section. Like everything that said to Kevin. Pacers applies to Oklahoma City, too. I know. It's a bad excuse. Oklahoma City should be there.

I was wrong. I admit it. I was wrong. Should have foot him. You know, all right. Let me help you out with this. It's a little bit older. this is what you do when you omit something that obviously should be there.

I'm honest. I'm an honest guy, Chris. Don't be honest. I'm an honest guy. You can do one of two things. I'm counterculture guy. Oh, I am. I got the hawks on there.

Right. So be that. You're like, you don't understand how much I love blowing stuff up. That's what I need to say. Listen, I am way more impressed with somebody that is going to, that blew up their team than somebody that is taking a run of the title. The second thing is, or this would be better. better. You can say, I wanted to be different, right? And this would go into the counterhards thing.

I want to be to everybody's got, everybody's going to be writing about Oklahoma City. What I should have done is just mentioned, obviously Oklahoma City should be here, but everybody's talked about them being a big winner. Here's some others. My response is super bland and super honest. It is the truth, though. That is exactly why. But, you know, look, I think Atlanta should be there, though. Atlanta should be. Not over Oklahoma.

City. All right, let's go through it. The article is essentially like best decisions. I don't know if it's really like the best off seasons. It's like the best decision. So like the decision by Atlanta. Oh, yeah. The best decision. Don't don't keep digging. You already have the shovel. Listen, the best decision is trading Victorola Depot and DeMontasabon is for Paul George. And they're signing Patrick Patterson for $5 million. That's the best decision. Okay. That's fair. Not allowing Paul Millsap to walk.

I'm digging. This building is falling right now, but it's just me that's falling. All right. Let's get back to who you did name. Enough. We, right off the bat, there's Kevin O'Connell City telling you, Oklahoma City should have been there. Yeah, they should have been there. Houston, this is an obvious one.

Added Chris Paul, added PJ Tucker. They've had a very good offseason for sure. They're now extremely intriguing. Talking to people around the league here at Summer League, the only thing that comes up, almost all of them to a man will tell me the whole it can't work basketball wise is goofy. I agree. The issue is personality wise.

That's the issue. That there are those guys going to clash. Are those guys personality wise are they going to clash? Because they are clearly wired very different ways. There is a. There is a sense amongst many, and you know, and a lot of this is still shrapnel from the end of the rocket season, that Paul is the guy that will say, F this, I'm putting you on my back. We ain't losing this game. Give me the damn ball. And he takes over games, and he's an amazing clutch performer. And clearly Hardin was not the, F this, we ain't losing this game. We just saw him get buried on his home court and having one of the worst games of his life, right? So how does it all play out? But in terms of them plaguing together, nobody thinks it's a problem I don't sense.

Basketball-wise, that was an original. How they both need the ball, they both need the ball. It is that whole personality thing because they are both not the, they ain't Kevin Durant. They ain't the easy going. I just want to play amongst the guys and keep the ball moving and whatever else. Like how they're wired and them clashing. personality-wise seems to be the question. I think, so I think that's pretty fair.

I think it's up to Chris Paul, really. I think Hardin has proven that he can play off ball. He showed that in Oklahoma City, slashing to the rim, cutting to the rim, you know, just spotting up hitting three. He's even coming off screens more. I think Hardin, it won't be an issue at all for him to play off ball. It's really up for Chris Paul, in my opinion,

to really, I think, give it up a little bit more because you're not going to stop putting James Hardin in high pick and roll, right? Right. So if Paul is willing to relinquish some control, which I think he is, otherwise he wouldn't have been so aggressive in making this partnership happen, right? So I think just the fact that it happened, the way it did before free agency, shows to me how much he wanted this to happen, knowing that this really theoretically could be an unstoppable parent.

Because, like, dude, you're going to have one of those guys on the court at all times. And the fact is that these are two of our game's best pick and roll playmakers, Pick and Roll scores. And for 48 minutes, Mike Dantonie is going to have one of those guys on the floor at all times. And I don't think we can underestimate how much power that has. You know Paul is hard on his teammates. He is. He is a force of personality and make no mistake about it, it will become his team because of force of personality.

Any team he is on, that's the way it's going to be. For better or for worse in some ways. Right. And so how does that play itself out amongst those two? but clearly a great offseason and a team that improved themselves. I love the PJ Tucker thing, by the way. Oh, yeah. Love him.

Anything they could get Carmelo, too, if they'd flip my... And that's a weird one. I like Carmelo. I think Carmel. As a fit with those two? I think Carmelo would turn into Team USA Carmello. Really? Team USA Carmello is a high efficiency player with a lower usage rate.

I think you'll see him spotting up more, slashing more, cutting more. And, like, look, you can put him in some pick and roll. That's a weird spot, though, Kiv. I listened to Wojianowski, if you know, did a... With Mike Dantone. He buried Carmelo. Just one year ago. That interview took place like last April, like April 2016 or something like that.

There's a podcast that Woj did when he was at the vertical. And when he buried Carmelo. I know. So now that what they're going to... It's going to be kumbaya with them. It's all about winning. I guess so. You know, one thing on Chris Paul, one thing I heard this week, because, you know,

I've bounced around the idea of like, would Paul, you know, would they recruit LeBron to Houston or something like that. And, you know, one of the things someone told me, and this is just one person's opinion, they don't think Chris Paul would want that super team. They think Chris Paul doesn't want, like, a championship handed to him. Like, he wants to earn it, fighting through the Warriors. That's what one person said to me. And so it's a little bit intriguing because it kind of aligns with his personality,

in some ways, the stubbornness in a way. You know what I mean? Do you get that vibe at all, Chris? You're looking at me like, you're like, no. The guy's been playing over a decade. He's never been to a conference finals. He should do it any way he can. Hey, hey, bro, you've tried to do it yourself.

I agree. I'm with you. Get to a conference finals and then. I love to play with LeBron. Get to a conference finals and then we'll talk about how you need to do it on your own. You need to earn it. When I play pickup basketball with my friends, when I get first pick, I always pick the best player.

I'm not going to pick a worst player. I want to win. Next one on the five best off seasons. Boston. Gordon Hayward There are some that I spoke to to that said They're really going to miss Avery Bradley Do you buy that?

In some ways, yes And other ways, no. I don't think that people thought That he would be the one sacrificed For this season. People thought Crowder, people thought smart And then it was a little surprising That it was Avery Bradley

That was the one that cleared the way To make room for Hayward So I think one of the things Okay, forget his defense for a minute Offensibly, I've read some things online on Twitter and whatnot, saying, oh, Celtics are going to miss him as a shooter. And, like, I totally disagree. I think Marcus Morris, you look at the numbers on synergy, spot up, catch and shoot the threes.

Marcus Morris is better the last four years on pretty much a similar sample off the catch. What you do lose is Bradley off screens and whatnot. That's fine. But what you do gain is Marcus Morris in the pick and pop. So it's going to be a redistribution of shots. You do lose the off-screen factor with Bradley, but I think that can be fulfilled with the Gordon Hayward that role. So now you do gain a new pick and pop threat in Marcus Morris

who can attack off the closeouts or shoot off the catch too. So I don't think it's a loss offensively at all. It's just a redistribution of roles that's on defense where, yeah, you lose your Curry stopper, you use your Irving stopper. But at the same time, you need to be big around Isaiah Thomas. And that's where I think Bradley is incredible as he was defensively. There are still some issues in the fact that he can't defend bigger guys necessarily, whereas Marcus Smart can, where's Gordon Hayward can,

where's Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, you hope they can. as young players. So I think going big, big and versatile, it might be a little bit better than holding on a Bradley where you're going to have to pay him $20 plus million next year, I would assume. What about the idea that there is, that they got a bunch of guys that would theoretically play the same spot? Gordon Hayward, Jay Crowder, J.

Lent Brown, Jason Tatum, does it just move to positionless basketball? Put them all out there. I mean, one thing I'm going to be really intrigued by is, and the Celtics kind of did this on one of it. games. I think it was against the Lakers where they just played jumbo. Yeah. Like you run the offense through Hayward and Horford with the other wings like Crowder, Brown, and Tatum, flank in the two, three, four spots. So you can play big. You have playmaking guys and Horford and Hayward. So I'm curious to see if the Celtics really unleashed like a jumbo

lineup this year when Isaiah's off the floor. Do you think it's enough to where you think that you could foresee a scenario where they could challenge and or be Cleveland? Have they done that much. I mean, it's so hard to say because it's like Darrell Morris said on Bill Simmons podcast. Like you're building your team to be completed in April, not in July. So look, yeah, they could they could beat LeBron.

But at the same time, like LeBron, I'd still pick like if they played a seven game series tomorrow, I'd pick Cleveland and six. Yeah, I'd still pick them. Toronto, I was very surprised you put this as a best off season. This is one of those that you threw the TNT on, but you were effusive in your praise on

Masai Yuri. Kyle Lowry, Serge Abaca, short deals, C.J. Miles, got rid of Carol's contract. So you were a fan of what Toronto did. And you and I talked about this, that their window does look different because of the catastrophe that is Dan Gilbert and that people opine very seriously that LeBron may not be the guy you have to beat in order to win the Eastern Conference. that definitely does change things. They're still on the blow-it-up track that I outlined back in March where it's like you go into the off-season, you try to make your team better, and you go into the following year,

and you know, you try to really compete, see how good you are. It would be more six months from now you think about blowing it up. But I think they had a great summer, man. That C.J. Miles trade was terrific. Because Delon Wright and Fred Van Bleet, I believe, can handle the backup point-guard role perfectly fine. And you can stagger minutes, even a little bit more than you already do.

He used to Rosenmore's backup point guard a little bit. So look, there's only one thing I would say. The only one thing I would say is I would certainly rather have Patterson on his contracts than the one they gave Ibaka. That is an appalling difference between those two guys, what those two guys bring to the table and then the numbers that they got in free agency. It was rather clear to me. That doesn't line up. They had both of them. and then seeing, and who knows,

if Patterson would have taken that deal from Toronto. But given what Patterson ended up with from Oklahoma City and what Abaca ended up from them, that's goofy to me. Well, I think John Gonzalez at the Ringer did a good piece before Free Agency that outlined how Lowry and E. Baca have the same agents anywhere. So it might have something to do with that.

Gotcha. The politics of the league. I didn't know that. Interesting. And they're both only three-year deals. Yep. So it's not like, you know, four years of them or five years of Lowry. Golden State you mentioned, Swaggy P, Omri Kasby, Rich get richer, except for Kevin Durant, who gets less.

I mean, what's he going to do? Who gets less? But they clearly improved their roster. I mean, I think that we thought that when teams win championships, there is a necessary sacrifice. You don't get to just run it back. Can he sacrifice so much? I'm only kidding. Yeah, but that's what happens.

You do. And then they bring back Livingston. and they bring back Iguodala, and they add these two guys that are real bucket getters, you know, especially you can envision them, especially in the scenario that they're going to be in, as being,

if they are counted on to be more than what they are going to be in Golden State, a periphery, hey, whatever you do is great. But in terms of just catching shoot guys, playing with the rest of those, these are great additions. Perfect, man.

I mean, Swaggy P, I feel like he's underrated in some ways because, like, he has, there's so much to him other than basketball that we know about and we talk about, just his persona. But he's a good basketball player. And he's an excellent spot-up shooter. So you put him in that role on Golden State, like, he's going to be really nice. Never mind Caspi, excellent spot-up shooter, too. They bought Jordan Bell for $3.5 million. And, like, if you're putting guys on teams before the draft, like, where you want them to go,

you would want Jordan Bell to go to the Warriors just based on fit, versatility, and a role in opportunity. So for them, like, think about what Javelle McGee did last year for the Warriors, and I think Jordan Bell could do it better. You know what the interesting thing about Jordan Bell is? I loved him.

One of my favorite prospects in the draft, he can still, even in this scenario, he can still block shots like crazy. He is a great shot blocker, and then he can run the corner and he'll be able to finish. Weirdly enough, something I did not expect, he gets gassed fast. He needs to get in a lot better shape, especially to play the way the Warriors play.

Because he looks like this high motor athletic, super athletic guy, but he gets a little tired. It seemed like the racing up and down the court really fast got to him maybe a little more so than some of the other guys. Because I'm a big fan of his. But yeah, they did great. Oh, here's a little tidbit from Summer League. So here's a odd conversation that I had. I have not met him yet, but I need to this week. Bob Myers runs, of course, the Golden State Warriors.

And I was talking to somebody about Myers, and they were just going on and on about how he is the coolest guy ever. And he is, you really need to meet him, great guy, yada, yada, yada. And then they said that he plays pickup with the guys. Yes. He plays pickup a lot of times, like amongst the people there, like around Golden State, that they play pickup together. and I said, how good is he? And they were like, he is awesome. I was like, what?

It's one of those people who's great at everything they do. No, he's evidently, they're like he is, he's like 40 something, low 40s. So he's not super old. But that he is, he is in unbelievable shape. And I didn't know this. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of people that are listening to us to be like, oh, he didn't know this idiot. He was on the Tias Edney UCLA title team.

Really? He didn't play. So that's how it would. No, but I didn't know that was part of his story. He was on the UCA, the Tyos Edney team. NCAA champion, 1995. Yeah, 95. Bob Myers.

How about that? They say he can hoop, like for real hoop, not like normal GMs. I mean, he's not. But that's, yeah, he's, um, this guy's got a tough life. I, I, I, great shape, good looking, runs the best team in the world. It's awesome at basketball. Screw Bob. He's got a fascinating story just being an agent or a high profile agent.

Not just any agents, very high profile. And then making the jump to doing a DMing gig for the best team in the world. It's something else. One thing about Bob Myers, whenever I hear his name, I think about what he said at Sloan at the Sports Analytics Conference in Boston this year. He mentioned when he talked to Steph Curry about the possibility of adding Kevin Durant. And I might have said this before on here, said this on here before. but he said, Kari was like,

hell yeah, like all about it. And Bob, like, just took that as a sign that, like, good, like, we get a group of guys

where, like, the only important thing is winning. Yeah. Because, like, some players, like, they might have been like,

you know what? No, I'm the guy here. You know, I don't want someone else here. So they're willing to share, give up a little bit of their, little bit of their startum

to add another guy to really just increase their chances of winning and winning and winning and really, right now it doesn't seem like they're going to stop winning. Other five, other of your five best off season, Oklahoma City. You do mention Atlanta, who is, oh God, this is a Kevin O'Connor favorite, 11 picks in the

next few drafts going nowhere. You know, you're going to look in the stands this year. I can't wait until you turn on league pass and you're like, Atlanta's doing the right thing. And you're going to see great tickets available, let's just say, they don't only way empty, unless Gucci Main shows up and then there might be some people at the games. I will say, they're two young guys. I thought DeAndre Bembert? And Prince. Yeah. I really like both of them.

I think they might have hit on both of those. I'm already certain they hit on Prince. I'm a big fan of Bambore. I like even more than Prince. Yeah. And then Bembery, who's played well, very, very active player, very active player. John Collins did he yesterday. Granted he was against Mark and I like Collins too.

He's a talented player. John Collins, he was great in college. Really good. A outstanding player in college. So, yeah, they got some interesting things. pieces going on and you chronicled how their GM said assets assets assets assets yeah he's basically basically in other words like what he said was we're in a stage where it's like about accumulating assets uh and then when it's time to strike you're ready and i think that's why this

season it's very important for Atlanta to understand who they are like you sure you could spend some money and add some players and push towards the middle but the best path for them to getting back to like the level that they were just a couple of years ago is tanking and getting a top pick in this draft because either you keep that player or if an opportunity comes up the trade for a guy I don't know who it could be maybe john wall becomes available or whoever it might be a sign and trade with a free agent you have that pick and you have those players where you are the team that can pounce on that you and you and i obviously have fundamental disagreements on this because i have seen teams do it and i get it right the idea

is to get the picks you have to nail the picks you have to you can fail right and or and then you're just You might go a decade and not be a good team, or you might be Orlando. And you go, all right, where they. Yeah, where are they going now? You love theoretical. I like real teams. You love theoretical teams, right? The idea of the asset and what could be, right?

Because I think there is a value to being okay. There is. I do. I think there's a value to be being okay might land you Paul Millsap. Yep. Right? Because it's okay. You look and see, all right, Denver could be something, right? They got these good young pieces.

That would be a place I'd like to play. Is Milstap still a bridge player for them, though? I love the, let me just make the good. I love the Millsap edition. Like, that really elevates their potential this season. I would be moving forward. I would be, I was surprised that, and I didn't realize this until you wrote it. Somehow I just missed it in the course of it, that he wasn't even off.

offered by Atlanta. Yeah. I mean, that's what he says. I was surprised by that. I buy it. I do buy it. Just based off what it seems like they're doing.

They just decided. Yeah, I mean, look, I get it. I totally get it. And I think it makes sense. No, no, no. I don't know. Why pay him, you know, X amount of money for X amount of years when the best path for you is a tank?

And that's why I love their office. For sure. How many wins do they get it? If they would have re-signed Paul Mills said this offseason, how many more wins are they getting in next year? $38-40-win team, right? maybe, maybe, right? the only thing is.

The only thing is you can suck and be a playoff team in the East this year. You really can't. Shitty teams are going to make the playoffs. They're really going to suck, though. Well, no. They're really going to suck. That team's not. But I'm saying that is the deal.

If you wanted to just be a playoff team, it wouldn't be all that difficult to become a playoff team. Sure. And you've got a lot of teams that are kind of thinking the same way or are going to be doing the same thing, i.e., being awful. I mean, think about how many, some of these teams are going to be really bad, Kevin. Yeah, I think, I think there's going to be some tanking this year. I mean, there really wasn't this past season. I mean, not like any just deliberate tanking the entire season. There go.

The last 20, 25 games is rough. That always happens, though, but I think through the whole year, we might see it a little bit more of the season. It's a top heavy draft. Let's get to the five worst, and we'll run through these quickly. I had absolutely no problem with your five worst, but I did find it interesting. And I don't know if you noticed this when you were writing it. all five Eastern Conference. Yeah, I did not notice that.

All five. Did not notice. All five were Easter Conference teams. This is how bad this disparity has gotten. And I don't disagree with you. Let's go through one more one. One Cleveland. You got bad PR going on.

It's also just Dan Gilbert stuff. Yeah. You come off losing the Golden State. You've got the Dan Gilbert stuff. And then losing David Griffin. then you've got the story which is and it's the way you always have to be concerned about the way the narrative goes on this stuff and the way the narrative went on the Chauncey Billups deal was not Chauncey Billups turns it down he doesn't want this isn't the right time or whatever it was

Dan Gilbert is cheap he low balled Chauncy Billups that's why he's not the GM of the Cleveland Cavaliers and that is a really. rough one. You never, it's fine if you make the, if you make the pitch and, and a guy just says, hey, not now, right? And he just makes a decision. I'm not going to be an NBA GM right now. But what you don't want is the story coming out.

He would have been the NBA GM, except the, this cheapo wouldn't pay him. I wish we had more details of those negotiations. I'm surprised we even got that scoop. I know. So that was an interesting window into, uh, into, I guess, Dan Gilbert and why he's never really re-signed or extended. Well, and you have a friggin title team, like a team that won the title two years ago, was just in the NBA finals, and really competed in the last three games.

It was not some kind of bloodbath, and you have gone through this whole damn thing with the draft and then up to now with no general manager. You have gone from the draft through free agency to now we're at Summer League with no general manager. That is outrageous. I think it'll be very interesting to see what happens with them because I think Kobe Altman is probably the guy that they hire. I just get that vibe just talking to people. I believe Adrian Wardenowski had a report this morning that said Dan Gilbert met with him.

So that could be a possibility where I just think just hire him. He's good. Everything I hear about Altman is that he's good. He's smart, young. He's got a lot of potential. I just think if you're Dan Gilbert, why wouldn't you want to pay whoever it is that you perceive as the best general manager as your captain post-Lebron because like you need someone who's really going to really i think make the right decisions in a post-lebron world you um you will know

from personal experience i know from personal experience and i will tell you he is a great guy great kid jeff green makes basketball teams worse end of story yeah he does that was just dumb yeah he does he makes teams worse you are not better because of jeff green trust me I lived it. I like what network said on Twitter. Jason Concepcion, historic moment as the cab has become potentially the final NBA team to fall for the old. Let's sign Jeff Green, prank. All right.

So Cleveland was one of the worst. You mentioned the Pistons. Everybody loves Stan Van Gundy personality-wise. Most people have a very high opinion of him as a head coach. General managing has not appeared to be his finest hour. over the course of the last couple of years of running this team, and you are unimpressed. I mean, he's paying like $40 million to Boban and Ish Smith and Josh Smith is still stretched. Now he's on Langston Galloway for a whole bunch of money.

I like the Avery Bradley trade, but at the same time, like, he's still going to be really costly, and I'm not convinced he's going to be worth it. I like Bradley a lot, but 20 million plus for him, I don't know. I like Luke Conard pick. Like I said in the article, I like Conard. But at the same time, just it's really a... There'll be a playoff team, though. It's really, it's really, I think, snowball effective to the decision of each year where

like maybe they didn't have a bottom five worst off season because the Avery Bradley trade helps them. And Conard could be a good player. But that Galloway deal, I don't like it. I don't like it. I just don't like what they've been doing. And I think... I don't hate that deal.

I don't hate it. I mean, if it's a mistake, it's a seven-year-old. million mistake it's not a critical it's a seven million dollar mistake on top of a bunch of other mistakes you can be a rotation guy they'll be a playoff team they will yeah sure in the east yeah then we'll get smoked in the first round nicks i mean i don't even know if we need to talk about this it goes without saying i mean it's just it's been an absolute disaster what is there's and it's even worse even if the so the tim hardaway contract four and 71 that is appalling to virtually every everyone. And it's interesting because I wonder if it makes it so much worse because it's New York or if it, no matter who would have done it.

Listen, anything gets accentuated because it's New York. And in fact, we're going to make that our Captain Morgan moment of the week. Tim Hardaway signing an offer sheet for four years and 71 million dollars with the New York Knickerbockers, who even he was surprised at the amount. that was going on. And I think what we would do is possibly they could do Tim Hardaway night, at least, since he is getting all this money. I do think at least one time throughout the season, they should have Tim Hardaway buys your drinks nights. And he, you go to the arena, and Tim Hardaway pays for you to get drunk

so that you can watch. Your first two beers are brought to you by Tim Hardaway. I don't know. I would have to do the math in my head. obviously things are a little more costly in New York. But Tim Hardaway, even he is surprised by the 71 million. I made the joke on Twitter when I saw the contract that Atlanta's headquarters when the facts came through or whatever, however they got the document.

They said, is that a seven in front of that one Tim Hardaway, Jr., signing an offer sheet? His father, who was a great NBA player, got paid $47 million in his entire career. his son is about to sign a $71 million contract. We now endorse Tim Hardaway drink night. Go there and Tim Hardaway pays for your drinks. That's the Captain Morgan's moment of the week. Tim Hardaway signing a four-year 70-1. And I suppose the entire New York Knicks front office was drinking Captain Morgan

when they decided, oh, hell, just go get Tim Hardaway Jr. We could get him. There's no way they'll match. No matter how you live like a captain. Captain Morgan reminds you, especially you, the New York Knicks front office. Please drink responsibly. Captain's orders.

71 billion bucks for $1.00. Now, okay. Let me put devil's advocate for a second, and I'm going to do this very poorly. Tim Hardaway Jr.'s signed offer sheet is not the worst contract given out because he doesn't suck. He's not a bum.

He's not worth that. But he's not either, and he can play. But he's not terrible. and there are bums that will sign good deals and the fact that he is not a bum makes that not the worst spent money and i'll play devil's advocate with you um he's also still young he's only 25 and the last two months of the season with atlanta he was balling ball and i saw workout videos of him this summer recently and he looked fantastic in a gym versus a chair Yeah

I mean that's like that's when you see that You know he's gonna be great Is he a good fit with Porzingis That's the I would view everything through that prism If I'm running the mix Yeah I think it could work I think it can At the same time though it's like

They don't have anything else So I feel like I think Porzingis can fit against a lot Fit with a lot of different guys The problem is that they don't really have much else To fit with him long term Okay Well Herna Gomez Hardaway Porzingis is that your three keep

It's really about it, right? The Bulls, they're next on your five worst all season. I mean, what are they doing? We talked about marketing already. All right, so let's get to what matters about the Bulls. Yeah, we talked about marketing, and the Jimmy Butler trade sucked. You look at their roster, and it's like, why, why? Let's get to the real thing.

Who do we think Duane Wade's going to end up playing for? Because that has not been talked about a lot. So we're assuming he gets bought out. He gets bought out. Like, let's just pretend he gets bought out today. Like, after we press end on this podcast and we send it off, he gets bought out. Where is he going to go? I cannot fathom it.

It's going to be Houston or Cleveland. I cannot fathom that Dwayne Wade ends up playing out the year for the Chicago Bulls, right? Yeah, at least by the deadline, he's bought out or something. Right? I don't think they do it now, but maybe by the deadline. Just not the Warriors. I'm just looking at Bulls right now. It says Cameron Payne went home today for family reasons.

and won't return to Summer League. So they've lost Chris Dunn recently as well. So some of their young guys have left the team the past couple days. Disappointing we haven't been able to see Chris Dunn too much. Yeah. Because, I mean, look, he was amazing in Summer League last year. And one of those guys were like, people like, whoa, rookie in the air. And then he stunk for the wolves.

I mean, I remember at the beginning of the season, I believe it was Wojornowski, had a report that Tibido wanted Dun to be at the start or 20 games of the year. like that wouldn't have been possible he could play 200 games and he wouldn't have been ready i mean i think with chris done i'm not done with him though i mean either nobody no pun intended i'm not done with done you shouldn't be because point guards take a long time to develop oftentimes and especially for him like his development was so unique in college with the injuries he's had set him back so give chris done time but at the same time like it's important that you do reassess your evaluation and i was talking to somebody last night. I forget who said it, but it's like the Bulls made this trade not based

off everything that happened the past year. So Chris Dunstunk with Minnesota, so you need to revise your original evaluation of him at least a little bit. And then Zach Levine tore his ACL. If they had made this deal last year, I don't think it would look nearly as bad through that lens, but based off all the new information that we have, that's what made it such a bad deal to me. Levine coming off a torn ACL one, but personally, I'm not a big fan of him in the first place and then Chris Dunn, not a good good year for him. I saw Zach Levine at the games two days ago.

He was wearing a jean jacket. It was the most bizarre thing. There was something out of the Westbrook attire, I believe. But it was like a jean, imagine a jean jack. The Westbrook line. A jean jacket with the sleeves like cutoff. So like a sleeveless jean jacket, right? And it had, you're never going to believe this.

Guess what was the big emblem embroidered on the back? When I walked in, I was like, What in the hell? And now I turn around. I'm like, oh, my God, that's Zach Levine. He was standing in the tunnel as I was walking into the Summer League. Motorhead. Motorhead.

Now, how many times do you think Zach Levine has listened to Motorhead? I think he's a big Lemmy fan? Every day. Every day he listens to him. First thing he listens to in the morning. Do you think that Zach Levine could tell you literally anything about Motorhead? I'm not sure. You might be surprised, Chris.

You never know. He might be a hardcore fan. You never know. No. You have got to. You're looking at me like, there's no way. Dude. There's no way.

I bet Zach Levine does not know that motorhead is a band. Sorry, that's a cool word, motorhead. I had a lift driver yesterday who says he can't go a day without a lot of listening to CCR. Can't go a day? Yeah, he'll be very excited. This hotel in which we're doing the podcast in, John Fogarty is going to be here in the coming months. And he is going to be playing. They are promoting it as playing all of the greatest CCR catalog,

which is obviously a great way to promote it because the worst thing ever is going to an act and then playing all their stuff, right? Not saying that Centerfield and other hits that he had are not things that you would want to hear, but let's be honest. Nobody wants to go see Paul McCartney and him play all of his solo stuff. Like you got to give me some Beatles stuff too. And they're clearly promoting it like, hey, come see. see John Fogarty

and he'll play all the CCR songs and we're like all right. You know, the great irony is not to like totally go off the rails here, but I'm seeing Roger Waters sometime later this year. And his set list, I'm disappointed that he doesn't have more of his original stuff. It's like all pink floated stuff besides his new album that came out.

But I just feel like some of some of his other solo albums would have been a perfect fit alongside some of the other stuff like Amused to Death, pros and cons of hitchhiking and none of that is on the set list that's very very sad and disappointing to me that it's a lot a lot of just pink floyd when i've seen him do okay you're like literally the only person that feels that way i know i'm not i know i know i'm not i know i'm not i mean look like i've heard welcome to the machine so many damn times i want to hear some of his live stuff from his solo albums and last one uh of the five worst all seasons

indiana oh boy uh tough spot for indiana fans because paul george going out to Oklahoma City. The return they got had been widely. Okay, so who had the best off season. Huh? OK, see, who had the best off season? They are, the return they got has been widely criticized. Yeah.

And I'm a Vic fan. I think people were too hard on Oladipo in all of this. He's fine. He's fine. Yeah, I think he's $21 million. He's a little overpaid. A lot overpaid. All right.

But I do, he's a piece and I like him. He's a NBA starter and a good player. Yeah. He's a good player. He's not elite. He's a good player. And Sabonis, again, the book's not written on him. Who knows? Super skilled guy. You know, rookie year was not one that you would walk away from going, wow, this guy's going to be great. I mean, I remember, it was like, and I'm not being hyperbolic here. He was like late into the season. It was like frigging like December or something. And I remember Royce Young who covers them. And he was like, and here are Demontas Sabonis's first two free throw attempts.

of the year. And I was like, wait, what the hell? That's unbelievable. He, like, didn't have a free throw attempt for, like, the first month of his career. And I was like, okay. Hey, a big fella, can we get on the block a little bit? Can I share a story about Sabonis? I think I'm the reason why his shooting percentage was so bad. Oh, no. Three. I don't think I'm actually the reason, but it's just funny. Because so on December 23rd, he shot four for four from six for three, scored 20 points against the Celtics. And after the game, I asked the bonus, like, what's behind?

his progress as a shooter because he made a big job from Gonzaga to the NBA. You're shooting like 43% from three. He was killing it. And he basically said, oh, it's just confidence. Like, my guys always are pushing me to shoot the ball. And then ever since that game, oh, no. Ever since that game, when he was shooting 43% on December 23rd last year, he shot, like, like, 18% from 3. Like, 20% from 3.

Holy mackerel. You have destroyed Sabonis' career. Either he ate something really, really bad for, like, Christmas. Or or I got it too bad. We are changing it now from Simmons always calls you the KOC. You are the KOD,

the kiss of death. You have driven Kevin Durant to become a warrior so that he could get a ring. And now you have ruined DeMontasabonis' career. He'll be fine. He'll be fine. Even though we only shall like 20%

the rest of the season. He'll be all right. He'll be okay. All right. you do it's one of those teams that you look at and go all right what's the point yeah it's i mean look it's like i alluded to in the the last paragraph on the article is like so you and i we kind of have different perspective when it comes to like team building and whatnot and so for indiana like their priority might not be to blow it up and get get all these draft picks and

whatnot for them the priority might be like maintaining a solid to good team and oladipo helps them do that, right? I mean, but if you're viewing it through that lens, then they might be the winners of the offseason. Like, yay, they're going to continue to be a 35 to 45 win team. They're going to make the playoffs in the week east. They can sell tickets and they can sell hope to the more casual fans and bring in people to the seats. And then they're the winners in that sense. But if you're viewing it through the lens that I do and a lot of other people do, is that this team doesn't bring them any closer to really competing deep into the playoffs. This trade does the opposite of that. So that's where the biggest disappointment is for me personally assessing that trade and for fans of the team.

I mean, it sucks. And the funny thing is, is like just talking to people this week, Chris, is it feels like to me people are still in disbelief about it. People are still amazed that it actually happened when it did. If they just waited a week, just waited a couple days for Hayward to decide they would have been able to get more from Boston than maybe other teams jump in. Who knows what happens? all I know is that doing the deal at the time that they did was just a huge, huge mistake. And that's something that I think they're going to regret when we look back at this deal long term. Because I feel like they could have gotten so much more.

He is Kevin O'Connor. He's going to be filing stories here from Las Vegas. We've got to get back to the Summer League games. Thanks to everybody for listening to the Ringer NBA show. It was good to be back. It was good to do a podcast in person. Fun, man. For certain.

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