The Ringer NBA Show - The Best There Is, the Best That Will Be | Group Chat

Episode Date: December 27, 2023

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss which NBA teams and players are in trouble right now (3:20), who has the best team (29:27), who is the MVP so far (43:24), what team or player has taken the leap (52:03), and who’s the most intriguing disgruntled star (1:06:37). Then, they predict what the answers to those questions will look like at season's end. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Galaxy lights, Coachella, Lightning Bolt necklaces. 20203 was the year of Scandival. On March 3rd, one cheating scandal launched a reality TV investigation that generated hundreds of conspiracy theories, thousands of podcast episodes, and millions of dollars in revenue. I'm Jody Walker, host of an American Scandival. One retrospective story told in three salacious parts. Listen, December 26th, on the Ringer Reality Feudel. feed.

The group chat, I am Justin Barrier and joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz, happy holidays, gentlemen, happy new year. Rob, how are you feeling on this festive podcast recording week? Bloaded? Overindulged? I mean, you sound like a man on solid ground, Justin, so I'm hoping you can lift me up. I'm hoping you can bring me out of the darkness, the sugar darkness really, that comes with this kind of perpetual deserting of the holiday season.

Yeah, I don't know if you guys feel the same way here, but I feel like this was the holidays where I reached my limit in terms of eating and just like scarfing down whatever I can get my hands on. Like I got to the point was where, like, I was starting to feel a little tingly in the left hand. Oh, no. Things were constricting in my body that I hadn't felt before. Yeah, I mean, I did just, which rarely happens for me. I had two days of dinners.

So on Christmas Eve, I had a feast of the seven fishes that I was invited to. which, you know, it's like an Italian, American tradition, lots of seafood, lots of clams, lots of fried fish. It was quite incredible, honestly, shout to Nicole for putting that together. And then I had a bit of my own, like, dinner here with my lady. We did like a surfing turf theme. So lobster tail, shrimp, and some ribbyes.

We had a salad mixed in there as well. But, yeah, it's over for the over-in-bed. indulgence. You know, I cut that process short guys by having Chinese food for lunch. Well, you got the red and green. You got the lobster tails and you got the salad. So I think all colors are accounted for holiday-wise. I think that was my problem. I did a lot of Chinese leading into it, some pizza, and then the cookies. I made the mistake of trying out a classic Italian recipe, the lemon ricotta cookies. I made them just like my nani used to make. I He was able to pawn them off on some people, but unfortunately, I probably popped in like upwards of eight to nine a day for like a couple days stretch.

And so I'm down bad, hoping that you guys can just lift me up, as Rob would say. I think we can because as you know, Justin, as you know, Waz, today we're talking about the best. The best there is, the best that will be. Really, I think we're going to talk about the highs of the league, Justin, starting with the Detroit Pistons who are clearly in such a great play. place. Yes. So today's shtick is in honor of New Year's Eve. The NBA is a little weird with the year and stuff because we fall within the middle of a season typically. And so we're going to take a look at what is good now and what is bad now, but also flip ahead to see what would happen later in the season. We have best team MVP, a couple other things. We have to start with the team in serious

trouble. And I have the Pistons for now and later. So for both of my answers, because we are recording this a day after they made NBA history. 27 straight losses, Rob. I didn't think they had it in them. And I think the Pistons maybe thought they didn't have it in them because they were trying their asses off in that game last night against the Nets. But fortunately, things got away toward the end there. Yeah, the people were doubting. They didn't think the Pistons could pull off this incredible streak. But here they are, 27th straight. They are in that kind of loop now where they clearly want their way out.

They're trying really hard in these games. Well, at least some of these games. Some of them, the execution could be pretty lacking and pretty sloppy. But no one wants to lose to them at this point in the streak. So they're getting pretty decent efforts relative to what you would expect of a lottery-bound team.

This is not just any old like pencil in the win on the calendar anymore. It's we don't want to be the team that allows the Pistons to get out of this rut. it's a pretty dark place. I still don't really see a way out. So many of their problems are not, this guy is injured, this guy's out of the lineup.

They are endemic to the team they have created and short of a drastic overhaul of the group that they have, how are they going to win these games? How are they going to get anywhere near respectability? Like they can win a game to not lose 50 straight, but I don't think they can win on any kind of consistent basis with this group. Yeah, and I think why they classify as a group that's in trouble is because,

and, you know, I've been as guilty as anybody of making fun of Tillman Fretada's phase two rhetoric around the Rockets, but the truth of the matter is, he bought in a bunch of veterans to be around his young guys, and they're now on to phase two. It's happening.

They're solidly in the play-in. They've been a competitive team all season long with no signs of abating. It's actually worked, and I think Detroit coming into this year had an idea that, that they were in a bit of a phase to themselves, especially when you consider the price tag that Monty Williams came with,

making him the highest paid coach. You don't do that if you think you're going to lose 30 straight games at some point in that season, right? Like, you don't think that you're going to be historically inept if you go out and you hire a coach of Monty Williams' pedigree and you pay him as much as you didn't. So to me, that's the worst part about it is that they thought they were turning a corner this year. And they did turn that corner guys, except they got shot and killed and they're about to get buried.

Jesus Christ. He's got darker than they already were after 27 losses. Well, I think it's interesting that you bring up the Rockets, though, because that's a team that obviously crowded its roster with a bunch of veterans at the sacrifice of some recent draft picks. They got rid of a sense with like three low first round picks for nothing, just the sign guys like Dylan Brooks and whatnot. and Rob, I'm looking around last night,

and I'm like, where are the helpful vets? Like, Boyan McDonovanch is playing reasonably well after bringing out for a while. But it's like, Alec Berks, like, where is the help here? Yeah, Alec Berks has been a disaster. Boyan is going to do what he's able to do at his age, which is like be a decent shooter, be a decent score, but not give you a ton else.

And really the one guy that they've missed in terms of the players they actually have is Monta Morris. Like, he would help a little bit. But he's not bailing you out of a sip that's like sinking this quickly. So you want different veterans, you want better veterans, you want veterans who are giving you more in the minute

than Alec Berks is giving you. And to Waz's ultimate point, like in contrasting those phase twos, Houston and Detroit, the coaching has to be the biggest difference. Like IME Udoga has done such a good job with the rockets of instilling accountability in prioritizing the right young players on the roster,

even at the expense of other ones. And then you look at one, Monty Williams has done. And for me, the Pistons are obviously in serious trouble. But Monty Williams is in serious trouble. And his bank account is going to be just fine, as we all know, got a very rich deal to come coach this team. But when you're not just bad, but this bad,

depths of NBA history bad, I don't know if you can come back from that in coaching that particular team. Like Brett Brown, when he signed up to coach the process Sixers, that's what he was agreeing to was a team that was going to be that bad. and he still became the fall guy in the end. Paul Silas coached the Bobcats and their horrible 7 and 59 season during the post-lockout year.

That was the last season of his coaching career. I don't know what is ahead for Monty Williams with this group. I think he's a guy who is still respected in the league and would get other opportunities, even if this thing continues to spiral out of control. But how do they, how does this group of players

come to listen to and respond? to and respect Monty Williams in a way where they haven't for 26 straight games. And given the choices that he's been making in managing this team, I don't think they're wrong to like to feel that way and respond that way. And just so we could give the listeners some context in case they forgot as to how Monty Williams ended up being the highest paid coach in NBA fucking history. Not Coach Spolstra, not Popovich, Monty freaking Williams, y'all. How did this end up happening?

Detroit is looking for a coach. I think the GM and the president of basketball ops, they had their own ideas about who they should get. Probably some career assistant who gets his first shot, who you don't have to pay that much money to come in. And that's usually who gets these rebuilding jobs, right? And ownership got it in their mind that, no, we need, we absolutely need Monty Williams.

The news got out that Monty Williams is like, you know, I'm taking a year off. You know, I'm a little burnt out, whatever. I'm going to take a year off. And when I come back, I want to coach a veteran-laden team. I want to coach a team that, you know, I'm going to be in the playoffs, being competitive games, like, guys, I don't have to teach how to be professional. All the perks that come with dealing with vets.

And he's basically, he said, I don't want your job. They bowled him over with an offer. And he said, I mean, if you're going to literally make me the highest paid man in the history of the sport, I guess I have to take the job. And I want listeners to note the last time this happened, it happened in New York, and it happened with Phil Jackson. And of course, Phil Jackson's Phil Jackson, you know, 11 rings or all of that. But James Dolan called the guy and said, yo, I want you to run the Knicks. He said, bro, I don't have a desire to do this.

I'm happy smoking weed in Montana, whatever the hell Phil Jackson lives. And then James Dolan bowled him over with an RV off him like $60 million. But Phil Jackson said, I guess I have to do the job. And how did that turn out, guys? Well, this is very rich of you to bring this up, Waz, because this is exactly what happened when we tried to bring you in to join group chat is you turned us down. We upped our offer by $15 million. And here you are today, reluctantly going through the motions with us.

Yes, I was angling for the answer with Chris Ryan, but I ended up with you guys. And here we are. Well, I was going to say, like, I think you got a one man showing you about this. Monty Williams fiasco. You were doing both sides of the negotiation. You were flashing back to Phil Jackson. Like, let's get this on Broadway, man. Begging people to work for you doesn't work, guys.

This is if you have to literally beg somebody to do the job that you're offering them. It's like somebody literally, I don't want this. It's not in me. I don't have a passion to coach young guys. That's probably a sign that you shouldn't hire that person to do this particular job. Well, it also makes it difficult. when all the parts of that negotiation are public, everyone knows what the negotiation was

to get Monty Williams into this job in the first place. And then he comes out in front of the media, in front of the players, telling them about all the great things they're going to be able to accomplish this season, about how much they're going to develop? It's like, how do you trust that kind of salesmanship, when you know what it took to get the salesman in the door?

Yeah, a lot of processed Sixers jokes are being made as a result of the losing show. streak. A lot of like why it was the NBA to get the GM and the coach out of there, which are really well founded and very funny when you hear them for the 20th time. I am struck by the fact

that like this roster doesn't seem bereft of talent in the same way some of these other past losers were. And we were talking about this the other day was and your response was, well, the league is just better. And I think that's pretty instructive, especially on a night where

Kate Cunningham goes off for 41, had one of, if not the best games of his career thus far, and it still wasn't enough just because not only are the nets of quality basketball team, even though they are toward the bottom of the east, but they're shooting threes at a rate where it's just they can catch up regardless. And so, like, it does feel like a league shifting as so much it is the pistons being awful. So think about this. Michael Carter Williams led a process six-sist team in scoring one season. He would not play for this team. He wouldn't play. He wouldn't get minutes on this team. The guy that the guy that started for the process sixers in 2012 or whatever it was would not get minutes on this team. So it's

been just a shift of how bad bad teams are. Like they're just way better than they used to be. Middling teams are way better than they used to be, right? And so, you know, I think that's kind of the problem we're facing. And then, you know, just more obvious problems that both Marvin Bagley and James Wiseman are on this team. I mean, do you understand? That's not why they're here. You know, those guys are not really in the problem.

But just think about the mindset of putting this team together. Sure. That the same, that you thought both of these guys made sense to be on your roster. Well, I think you could take that idea more broadly, right? As we're talking about the quality of bad teams and how these teams are constructed, So much of what goes into drafting is best player available mentality. Don't worry about fit. Take the talent.

Take the best guy on the board and figure out the rest later. If you do that in 2024, you can end up where the pistons are with a roster that doesn't make sense and with a roster that is kind of suddenly driving the trade value of all the guys you've accumulated down into the ground a little bit. The market for J, if you wanted to trade Jaden Ivy, his market. it's probably as low as it's ever been right now because of the roster you've created. And so I wonder, as these bad teams are getting better over time, does that have to change the way teams are approaching the draft, the way these teams are building their teams in the first place?

Do you have to be more mindful of fit now and of showcasing the talent that you have versus just trying to get talented players in the door, even if it's taking a flyer on someone like James Wiseman who doesn't seem to be a fit? Yeah, it was a worthwhile second bet. He was a second draft guy who maybe in a different scenario had some talent that the pistons could unlock. Obviously, that hasn't been the case. And it is a little curious that Troy Weaver has targeted big men more than anything. Like they got rid of Sadiq Bay in part to bring in a James Wiseman. And Bay would be a very helpful addition for this team, especially with his shooting. I think like the contrast with the Rockets is an interesting one because I actually don't fault the process, excuse the pun, for the

Pistons so much because what's the way to get better in the NBA, even despite all these differences that we're talking about, is just to land higher draft picks. And like, the fatal flaw, really with the Pistons is the fact that they lost so many games last year, ended up with the fifth pick, I believe, as opposed to being first or even second or third. And you've seen some of the draft picks that have been able to pop as a result of that. And obviously, it's not a Sarr Thompson's fault. But like, I still don't necessarily think like the game planning for this roster was faulty, it just seems like it is tougher to win in the NBA one. And when you get into the situation where the optics are so bad, then you start to draw the sort of attention we're

getting now. And so like, not to default to the same conversations we were having with Sam Hinky, I do wonder if this is more of like an optics thing rather than it is like a complete catastrophe. Well, this is going to sound insane. But where the pistons are now, it could be a better premise toward a long-term trajectory that leads to a contending place. versus being better more quickly. We've seen teams who draft really good superstar level players and they get too good too fast and they aren't able to draft their second and third supporting guys.

Ultimately, if Detroit is so bad this year that they can get a clear number one type talent and the problem, of course, is that it doesn't look like this is going to be a particularly loaded draft class. But sometimes guys will surprise you. Sometimes you land exactly the right player. If they can get a guy to supplant Kate Cunningham as their best player,

then everything kind of shifts into place a little bit. Things start to make a little bit more sense depending on what the skill set of that player is. And so maybe this is the kind of thing that three or four years from now, we're looking back as a formative moment for this franchise that's headed in a much more positive direction. God, I mean, hopefully three or four years from now,

they're winning some games. But there are problems all over the competitive spectrum. And certainly being very good, very quickly can lead to its share. I just hope that whatever comes out of this losing, The Pistons can get one more talented player they wouldn't be able to afford otherwise and that it's the kind of player who makes the roster makes sense. Or maybe

they get a top two pick who's of the caliber of say a Marvin Bagley of James Wiseman? Good Lord. It's just something saying. You got to say it. Another team that I would like to contrast them with, honestly,

is the overachieving Utah Jazz of last year who I would say had absolutely nobody who you thought of as dynamic with the ball as a Cade Cunningham, you know, or even the raw talent upside of a Jaden Ivy at their point in their careers with the jazz. Like, you know, I love Jordan Clarkson. God bless him.

But nobody thought that guy was anything more than a seventh man off the bench for a decent team. And they overachieve the hell out of their performance because why? They constantly played five guys who, could pass dribble and shoot constantly. Like, we realized the game has gone in this direction, why we would deny it and just fill the roster

with incongruent parts. Like, just think about it. Like, on what planet could Killian Hayes, Jaden Ivy, and a sore Thompson exist in a rotation together? Like, how? How would, with Isaiah Stewart? Like, how would these guys in? And also, I think,

the part of it that compounds the issue of the non-complementary nature of the roster is that because Jaden Ivy plays under this constrained context, I don't think he's able to develop in a way that's going to be useful. He's not playing in the context that, you know, his most idealized version of himself would be. And so it's just, you're picking up Kevin Knox for shooting? Yeah, the shooting part of it is confounding. Like the fact that they didn't have shooting one in 2020, 23, 24, but also with Cade Cunningham is the guy who everyone is saying is like his whole thing is to in order to orchestrate the offense.

But I think an interesting contrast also is the Rockets yet again because look at Jalen Green. Like Jalen Green isn't taking off despite the structure that they put around him. So at a certain point, it does come down to drafting well. And that's just a certain, an exact science. And so I don't know. It really is kind of a Pandora's box where I don't know what is appropriate for each individual player, but something is a mis here with Detroit. But let's move on because I want to talk about other teams here.

Do you guys have any other teams on your in-series trouble list for right now? No, I'm thinking the Pistons right now. And as I said, more specifically, Monty and his ultimate fate with this team. Where are you wise? Do you have anybody you worried about? I mean, I think the Cavs, I'm always worried about the Cavs. just in the player development part, the roster construction part.

Now we're talking about injuries. They haven't completely fallen off a cliff to their credit despite the injuries to two of their major stars. But I just don't see how that is functional throughout the course of the season. So I'm definitely keeping my eye on them. Yeah, they look like a team that's treading water,

certainly given their situation. But I can't help but feel there's just an opening in the East now. Not necessarily at the top. I think we have a lot of respect for the teams that are at the top of the East. But I've just been kind of penciling in the Cavs going into this season as a team that's going to be really good in the regular season, pretty formidable in the playoffs, if with some questions to answer, you know, kind of a lock for that four to six range. And now that looks wide open. And I think there's going to be a real opportunity, especially for some young teams that there's going to be some room to talk about later, that can kind of take that spot. They can take their spot in the East in a way that's a little worrisome if you're a Cleveland team that was banking on being.

on the up and up this year. Yeah. So I also have the Lakers down here, two and six since they're in season tournament victory. Just call it the after effect of raising a banner and LeBron just feeling the deep shame of doing so with Kobe's and some of the other more prestigious accomplishments next to them.

Also the Sons, 14 and 15 overall three and nine since a seven game win streak. The one thing I didn't want to talk about with the Sons just briefly here is it seems to be a lot of revisionist history, with the Bradley Beal trade. And like I get it, Beal has been pretty much a disaster.

He's only played six games. And the fact that like when they finally get it on the floor, that's when he rolls his ankle is like some real dark cosmic shit. But I have to say, I think it's worth mentioning what they actually gave up for Bradley Beal, which was Chris Paul, Landry Shamit and some picks. And so like the cost benefit,

I still think is in their favor. So this to me strikes me as a very much a team in trouble now because they are dipping below 500, which even for a Kevin Durant, Devin Booker team is a serious issue. But I think long term, I'm still kind of around the same place with them. Rob, are you the same?

Yeah, revision is history by whom, Justin? The internet. I'm not revising anything. I've been worried about the Suns. And they're my pick for who will be in serious trouble. You know, right now, 11th place in the standings right now. They have one of the toughest remaining schedules

of any team in the field. they have an upward battle against their own injuries. And really, I don't even feel particularly good about the sun's making the play-in. Like, if they're in the play-in bracket, they're a team that has some really off nights. And we've seen it where whether you're trapping their stars and forcing the role players to beat you or vice versa, you're playing strictly to the outside and cutting off those spot-ups and making the stars beat you. Honestly, I think there's a lot of ways to beat Phoenix.

They just don't strike me as the most reliable team in terms of the way they actually execute their stuff. So I'm worried about them now because they've been losing games, but I'm worried about them long term because the problems they have aren't going anywhere. Yeah, it's just troublesome that they haven't been able to string together seven games in a row of the roster that they went so hard to put together this expensive-ass club, new ownership, went so hard to put it. Like, they can't even string together a freaking week and a half of seeing what they do on the floor as a group, that's very worrying in the short and long term

because it's not just that you're dropping games in the middle of this, it's that you're not building that continuity that we know you're going to need in the playoffs in order to ultimately achieve the goals that they set out for themselves. Yeah, the whole roster has been turned over in recent years. Even just from last season, so much turnover where that's what you were hoping for is not only are Kevin Durant and Devin Booker going to get even more comfortable together, but they're going to get more comfortable in context of the guys they're actually going to be playing with.

And at this point, I don't know who's going to be playing in the playoffs from this rotation. I think we can assume Aaron or Eric Gordon. We can, I guess, assume Grayson Allen, who's been one of their more reliable role players. He's essential. New Beal. I do want to thank the Suns because really their games right now are prime sicko season. Like, if you're watching a son's game on Christmas and one of your relatives is like, who the hell is Chamezimeti met to?

This is our time. This is our time to mansplain Chamezimeteu to people. So I do thank them for that. Was Devin Booker your relative? You might need to be introduced formally on the court at some point. I'm not that worried long term because I look at not only that, but the Aiton transaction. I'm like, I think they do it all over again. Everything is built around the fact that these three.

you guys can get on the court and obviously that is concerning but like right now it's an ankle with Beal it's not back it's not anything super long term so like I still think if they could just get these guys together like I think there's still that version of the team there but I guess we'll see I wish you the best

with all that I'm holding my stock if you want some my team that I'm worried for going forward by the end of the season I think is going to have a lot of questions is the Atlanta Hawks the fact that Jalen missing time your team completely falls apart is absurd that that that is just a crazy premise and you know

I think they were like we're going to give this the good old college try and we know the coach has a lot of influence over there and I think come the off season we're going to see some major changes if the hawks finish you know 37 and 45 like they're on pace to right now and so that's who I'm kind of, I got my eye on. Like, that could be a candidate for some blow-up potential. And, you know, the vultures who want to pick that thing for parts, they should be keeping their eye on what's going on in Atlanta right now. Who do you think the vultures are, like, licking their chops for?

Who are they really circling and eyeing right now? I'd be all in on a Congo, honestly. I think on a real team, he makes so much sense as, like, a really versatile, out defensive, big, plays with a lot of, you know, energy, high motor guy, decent IQ. I'd be all in on a Congo. I think, you know, once Baby Boy became an all-star, oh, I shoot, you know, I dropped 20 points a game, he stopped caring about defense. Dejante Murray, sorry, I did the very annoyance thing where I called him by his nickname.

But, like, once he became, you know, a lead guard, so to speak. speak, he's, he's just less attractive to me because he's a B minus level lead guard. And because he's dedicated himself to that B minus nature, he's no longer just a killer on defense anymore. And so I don't get, obviously Jaylin's going to be untouchable because he's the one young guy that feels like skies is the limit for his potential. But yeah, I'm, I'm in a Congo guy. I'm still in a Congo truther.

Yeah, what do we think about the Dejante Murray turf war that is, uh, circulating around the league, which is that apparently because he's a clutch client, he can't go to the Knicks or at the very least there isn't much dialogue because of the CIA beef there. Have you guys heard about this? It's almost like maybe you shouldn't let an agency

run your entire organization. Which side of the coin are we talking about there? The Knicks are the Lakers. All of the above. Hey, the Lakers won a championship doing that. That's fair. the Knicks are building a dynasty, okay? I don't really get the fit with Murray in New York to begin with.

He's not a fit. But he is one of the hot names on the rumor mill right now. And I think it makes sense. And like I look back on the offseason, I wonder if that extension that they signed him to was more to trade him later on, to lock him in an order to trade him, which honestly, maybe that's what is in the Hawks' best interest to just like completely reshape this thing.

I don't know how much they can really pick it apart, Rob, but at the very least, there needs to be a rethinking about what is working, what is it. Yeah, I mean, it was pretty illustrative to see them lose to the Bulls, who are a team with nothing, little to play for, as we've talked about, who have managed to rally their whole season, just with a couple of young players popping out with a well-timed Zach Levine injury, it would appear. The Bulls have been able to turn around their season in a way that the Hawks just continue to kind of languish.

And in particular, the Young and Murray Minutes, like, I just keep waiting to see something from those guys as a duo, as a collaboration, as an exercise in something that they ostensibly both wanted, which was to play together. And yet they don't really seem to show any growth at all in their capacity to do it. You're going to be waiting until the Lord, our Savior himself comes back for our salvation, Rob. There is me at the end of days, turning to dust, holding my young and Murray stock in my hands. So as we flip to best team here, Rob, are you saying that the Bulls are your current best team? Well, how could you possibly hope to stop Kobe White? If you have the blueprint of how to do it, I would love to see it. And 29 other coaches would love to see it, Justin. La Flama Blanca.

That's what we're calling them. One of the few legitimately good nicknames out there. I'm fine calling only referring to Kobe White as LaFlama Blanca on this podcast, as the one exception to our rule if we want to do it. But the best team, we are global. Clearly. I think the Celtics are still the best team. They give you enough reason for pause in some of these games. There's some shot selection issues that worry you. Obviously, when they don't have their full complement of guys, things can get a little diceier.

But when they're healthy, they're blowing the doors off people for the most part. And in particular, when Chrisaps Porzingis has been out there, they've just been so impressive and so balanced on both sides of the ball. and also inside and out in what they're doing. So I have questions, but I think the balance of specifically the Eastern Conference has shifted enough was from the beginning of the season where I know you and I were coming into this year thinking the bucks were kind of the more reliable entity

we could take for granted and the Celtics had to kind of show us something. And now I feel the opposite. Where I'm waiting to see Milwaukee's transition defense get up to snuff. I'm waiting to see Milwaukee's rotation to get up to snuff. I feel pretty confident in where the Celtics are right now. Yeah, I think the Celtics, It's impossible to deny that they've been the most consistent team in the league all year. And particularly, again, when Chris Staps is playing, he sort of unlocked their offense in a way that, you know, has been a sight to behold.

And he's delivering on defense, most importantly to me. He's delivering. Because, you know, they're playing these lineups where Tatum or Brown, whoever you, I guess his Tatum, is at the four. And Chris Staps is your last line of defense as far as, you know, guarding. the pain and he's done a magnificent job. There's no way to argue, you know, in an empirical sense that the Celtics have not been the best team in the NBA to start the season. So yeah, I'm in agreement with you there, Rob. Quite an asterisk you put on that thing was. Well, just for the sake of discussion, because clearly I agree with you guys, that the one team

that I want to bring to the table here is just Philly, because a lot of the metrics would suggest that the Sixers are actually the better team by net rating some of these other things. Now, we should point out that the schedule has been pretty charming for the Sixers. In fact, so they have a plus 10.8 point differential. When you take away the 45 point win against the Wizards, which let's just pause for a second and just remark on the fact that the Sixers won a game by 45 points. In this year, 2023, you take that away. It's 9.5. Still, I think second or third, but It's still good, but like I guess this is the question. Like, was, do you believe in the Sixers is like this level of team?

I don't. I don't. Well, Heaven Hall less was. I mean, clearly you need to do some deliberating here. Look, I'm, I've been heartened by the rise of Tyrese maxi. He's clearly elevated himself to like easily all-star. line player. He's an NBA All-Star at his tender young age. And so that's been a beautiful development to watch. We've mentioned the coaching adjustments around Embed and his offensive

game and, you know, that he's not just throwing the ball all over the place, that his assist have gotten so much better. He's seeing the floor much better just by, you know, nature of the positioning and the offense around him. And so it's been nice to see that, you know, moving on from James Hardin for what amounted to a bag of peanuts has effectively not changed the quality of this team. But the quality of this team was second round and out. And I don't foresee anything different happening for these guys going forward. So, no, I'm not that crazy about what the Sixers are doing. But again, individually, Tyrese Maxi, like, yes, I'm over the move for what he's doing.

Yeah, I think there's a needle to thread there where I do think that the quality of this team has changed. They feel more stable, more competitive, more viable, more flexible in how they execute. But I agree with you that the outcome is probably going to be about the same. And that's a tough thing to swallow when you're thinking about, oh, Maxi is having this amazing season. and we've made some really smart moves around the edges. Kelly Ubre has been pretty indispensable for them. Nicholas Batum, I thought, has been a great addition since they picked him up in the hardened deal too.

I watched a super cut of Batum literally just throwing post-entry passes and a tear crawled down my cheek. Who made that super cut? Was it you? Some Sixers sicko out there, but look, we're all on this together. And we just want to see good post players get fed properly down low. And the Sixers are doing that in a way that, allows Joel to play all over the floor with space, with energy, with good position.

And Philly's been thriving. I think they are materially better than they were with James Harden. And yet I just am not sure it's going to matter in the grand scheme of things. So you're saying when they leave in the second round, it'll be with a pat on the ass rather than a kick in the ass. I hear you. They might prefer it. Given some of the season-ending Joel and Bede press conferences we've gotten,

I think some good vibes could be in order. I have to say, though, this is kind of a masterstroke by Daryl and just that like giving Embed this showcase to just perform at his best level, to allow him to play, make a little bit more has clearly just made him happy and just made this like whole thing just so much easier to work with because now you're buying time with Joel and hopefully like within a year or two, like all of a sudden there's runway here to figure this thing out. And so I agree with you guys in this year. Some of the math is a little funny on them. And so I would have the Celtics first. And I also have the Celtics long term. If only for this reason, the Celtics have,

according to Tankathon, the easiest schedule left on the docket here. And now injuries are concerned. You guys kind of referencing them. Christops has missed eight games. The rest of the starting lineup has missed a combined seven. And when it feels like one of those guys is out, it feels like things are a little bit off. And obviously the bench is a major concern. I don't think it's a concern when you get to the playoffs, especially considering the Celtics do have ammunition to add a bench player or two at the trade deadline. But I think the fact that they've done this against the schedule and it's only going to get easier from here, I could see them very clearly being the one seed, not only in the east, but in the NBA. Yeah, they're going to win a shit ton of regular

season games no matter who they play. Like, they're going to be the most talented team on the floor most nights. They're going to be the best shooting team on the floor most nights. They're going to be the most versatile team on the floor most nights. So they're going to beat a lot of regular season teams. but they're going to lose to the Nuggets if they get to the NBA finals who are the best team who will be the best team in the league if they aren't right now.

I think it just depends on how you want to define it because yes, by point differential, by net rating, the Celtics and the Sixers are kind of far and away the best teams right now. But the Nuggets are a championship team whenever they want to be

and you can see it on the nights when they're healthy. You can see it on the nights where Nicole Yokic has decided, all right, we're just going to destroy these guys and they do it systematically every time.

So I feel pretty confident in where the Nuggets are in terms of the long-term development of the young guys who they need to develop, but also in terms of who they are when their best players are actually available. Yeah, I think the Nuggets, to me, are still the most overwhelming team that I've seen this season when they're at their most nuggets-yest, right? When, you know, it's like, oh, we're diverting our big man resources, our size into trying to bother Nacola. oh wait, we got a six-foot-four guy in the post against Aaron Gordon. That's a dunk. And one, you know, when Jamal Murray ratchets it up, like, where he's like, all right, I'm going to have a 17-point quarter. Like, it's just, when I watch these guys at their best,

not only do they look the most overwhelming, they look like they're having the easiest time in the process of doing it. And so, yeah, I'm still, I still have not unsurprisingly moved off my position. that this is ultimately the class of the NBA. Obviously, we have months and months and months and months until this stuff gets proven on the court. But yeah, I haven't changed my mind. You know, nice Chris Staps, poisingas, 30-footers, notwithstanding.

I feel like we just need a soundboard at this point for any Nugget segment where we just take what you guys said seven months ago and just repeat it. Do it in the playoffs. They have so much confidence. What consistency? see they play with. Have you watched this team play, though?

This is what they do. No, I don't watch basketball. I actually don't like basketball. So, well, we have to talk about this because this is a CYO basketball guy. Yeah. That's why I'm going to appeal to the indie fans so well. So I'm just going to talk about high school basketball. Aaron Gordon got bit by a dog on Christmas Day, according to Shams.

This is happening as we're recording this. Apparently, it was serious enough that it required 21 stitches to his face and shooting hand. What the fuck is going on with Aaron Gordon and his dogs? That's a gnarly business. I have no words. I'm not going to let the dog lobby get sick on me, pun intended, but I'm not surprised. Well, you're wise because these are two members of the dog lobby you're speaking to right now, wise. So you will address the canine community with the respect it deserves.

Rob, have you ever gotten bit by your corgi in the face? You know, they're not your ferocious corgi? Yeah, they're not quite so ferocious, it turns out. I do think it helps when your dog is small enough where when it gives you trouble, you can just kind of snatch it up or pin it down or do whatever you need to do. But you don't have a German shepherd or a Rottweiler? Yeah, no dog or I have to say like a command in German to sick on somebody. You know, no attack dogs around here.

Copy. So what's the Nuggets take here? is that Aaron Gordon, after coming through this, will be battle tested? He's always how we spend this? How do you think you get that dog in you, Justin? You got to fight with the dogs to get that dog. Also, obviously, you know their leaders from a war-torn country. This guy was shooting AKs when he was three months old.

Like, come on now. Nobody's is battle-tested as this group. You got to be kidding me. There you go. On an earnest basketball note, if we can talk about actual basketball for a moment rather than dog bites. I thought there was an interesting, like, little passing of the stylistic torch in the league moment in the Christmas game between the Warriors and the Nuggets,

where obviously the Warriors, this established team, this institution of where the NBA has been over the last decade or so. And in particular, when Clay Thompson was trying to free himself up for open shots, and no one on this podcast will pretend this has been Clay's best year. But he's been trying to free himself up for open shots. He finally gets a little bit of daylight in the corner. and his shot gets absolutely devoured by 610 Michael Porter Jr. Blocking it out of bounds.

And there does feel like a little bit of that happening with the Nuggets and a lot of these other elite teams where you think you've got good-sized wings at the two and the three. You think your 6-7, 6-8 guys are going to be enough. And then they get guarded by Michael Porter Jr.'s length, who I think has been really good on defense this season, by Aaron Gordon in some matchups where he's switching over, even by Jamal Murray, who's really big by point guard standards.

and what Denver can do to you in those respects. Justin, I can hear you queuing up the sound drop, but it's a real thing. Hey, it's a real thing. Is Michael Porter Jr. the new Kevin Durant? Would you guys say that? In what sense? I'm kidding.

What, does he have weird Twitter habits? Well, that we know for sure. I don't know if you guys checked out the Michael Porter Jr. podcast, but there's some stuff going on there. Can you allow us to say a nice thing about a player on a team that you don't particularly respect, Justin. Can you allow it? This is like 20 minutes now. Let's move along. Cash in on balling out this NBA season with Fandle, America's number one sportsbook.

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See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. All right. MVP. Who wants to go first? I'm scared to even get into this conversation. I think right now the smart people, shout to my man Tim Bontemps, he did his MVP straw poll the first of the season. They got Joelle.

If, you know, I turn on my YouTube, JJ Reddick is yelling about nobody's giving Joel enough respect for how dominant he's been. I think right now, Joel is carrying the narrative trained with the unexpected great start to the season and his undeniably great play to start. I think right now it'd be kind of hard. to, I shouldn't say that. It wouldn't be that hard. But right now, I think Joelle is who people are

leaning towards for MVP right now. That's who I got for right now, Rob. Yeah, I'm in the same boat. And this is an interesting one where I think Will Be makes, you know, there's kind of two different contexts here. There's who's going to be MVP by the end of the season. And there's who are the voters actually willing to vote for? Because, you know, straw polls are one thing. Media members saying right now, Joelle Embed is my MVP, but putting, I was going to say pen to paper, but I guess it's like cursor to drop down menu and choosing Joelle Embed as your MVP when I think a lot of Embed voters last season came to regret it is going to be a different thing. And if the nuggets are one of the highest seed of teams in the league, if Yokic continues to play at the

level he usually plays at, I'm very curious to see how many people actually actually. actually vote for Embeded over him, even though I personally think Abed has been better to this point in the year. It's just going to be like there's going to be a factor where like he almost has to be the best player by a pretty significant margin in order to out vote or out pull Yokic in the voting again. I can see that. I kind of think that's a misread of the narrative up into this point because one of the big propulsive factors with MVP is not only being good in comparison to your peers, but being better than you were even last season. And in comparison to last season, Embedd has clearly taken a step forward, leading the league

in scoring again, getting through the line at league high rates. And not only that, he's doing so without playing some of these fourth quarters because the team is just blowing them out. Embeded has only played 854 minutes. Luca, Janice, Yokic have all past the 1,000 minute mark, even Sheailders-Alexander, playing 936 minutes. And now you could say maybe that's helping Embed with his efficiency stats, but clearly the raw production is there. And so, like, I think about it more when you put this all out on paper and you see that Embed is playing better than he was last year, especially with the playmaking stats.

I wonder if that's going to trump any sort of, like, queasy. feeling people have about maybe we shouldn't have given it to Embed last year. It's a really great point. The fact that he's not just leading the league in scoring again for a third straight season, but every one of those three seasons has been ascending in scoring and ascending in many ways in efficiency. And on top of that, that this is the best passing season of his career, there's a lot to commend.

I mean, Joe Will's been incredible. There's just going to be the question of like, obviously, sustaining this level of production over the course of the full year. but that's where playing more limited minutes in some of these blowout games while still putting up crazy numbers in the process is really going to serve him well. I think I could see it

and it would certainly be interesting if at the end of this season we're looking at Janus and Yokic and Embed all as they would all be two-time MVP's right if Embed wins again. So that's why I think ultimately I think Luke is going to win the MVP this year because they're going

and like if you look in the standings their record is not all that dissimilar to Phillies. It's closer than you would think given the start that Philly had. And I think voters are just going to view what Luca does for that team as more instrumental.

He just has more ownership just by his nature as a player. Like, you know, the guy generated like 92 points on Christmas Day, which is just completely insane. And I think he's going to continue to do that all season. He's playing the best ball of his life. The jumper is finally falling

at a clip that's like damn near scary. And so ultimately, I think Luca is going to, they're going to get around that 50 win range that is generally in the past has been the threshold for MVP. And ultimately, I think Lucas is going to take this thing by the end of the year. Because for me, man, some of the stuff he's doing outside of Yokic when he's, you know,

in those moments that he's been completely engaged, Lucas felt like the most unstoppable and immovable force. in the game this year for me when I'm watching it, man. Like when it comes through the idea that they're throwing 12 million guys at him in hopes to slow him down a little bit. And he's creating every single opportunity for the guys on his team with, you know, especially during this Kyrie absence, to me, that's why I think Luca ultimately over the course of the season, everybody's going to come to see that this guy is doing something

crazy out in Dallas. I have Luca as well. My one concern there is just are the Mavs going to win enough, especially when all of his closest competition is probably going to be higher than the Mavs in the standings? And now the Mavs could rip off a bunch of wins, especially when Kairi gets back in there. They've managed to be successful with Dante Aksum playing in that role. I just don't know. And I think that probably gets us in this to the Shay territory. We could talk about Yannis as well.

I think all of these teams might have more wins. and the typical recipe for MVP, Rob, is usually best player, best team in most cases. Yeah, I think in order for Luca to be in there, the narrative case would have to be really strong. And for me, that means Kyrie misses significant time over the course of the entire season. Luca obviously continues to play at this level,

which wasn't with you, like on a night-by-night basis. I mean, it's hard to match someone in terms of pure creation what he is doing for the Mavs right now. Juel scores a lot, creates a lot, but part of his value too is what he provides defensively. Luca is tilted much more toward only offense, but holy shit is what he providing offensively good enough to potentially win him an MVP.

So I think the Mavs would have to be in that four, they would have to stay in the four-five range in the West, and his numbers would have to be so overwhelming that they make the case for him. That's hard to do when Joelle's scoring 35 a game. That's hard to do when Shays putting up the numbers he is and the Thunder are winning this much too. And Janus, yeah.

Janus absolutely has a place in this conversation too, given what he means to Milwaukee as a downhill driver, the pressure he puts on the rim and what that creates for everyone else. So much of what Dame does is playing off of what Janus does right now. And to be the centerpiece of an absolutely elite offense in Milwaukee, Janice has to be in that group. But he has the same uphill battle that a lot of these guys do. I think Joel has been good enough to lock it up to this point. I still think we come back to Yokic at the end. that that's kind of where I'm leaning is that it relies on him playing at a level

he has not played at yet in terms of production but that we all know is there and that we all know has been playoff affirmed but yeah but does the playoff success almost give him a case not to put the pedal like the pedals from the metal I almost feel like Yokic Yokish might be like post MVP if that's actually a thing

he just like doesn't care about it in the same way that Joel did last season and like at the end of the day this is a political race. And if one guy is up there being like, I don't know, maybe vote me into office. It's up to you guys. I hope you just look at the body of work

and you appreciate it. Like, that's not typically how these things win. And so, like, Joelle definitely wants this again. And Luca, it's clearly been on this trajectory for a while. I do wonder if he's the type of player who will say this is my year. Let me do everything I can, can, play all of the possible games that I can in order to win it.

So do we have an MVP award for NBA player who, during his night in New York City hauls it to the freaking Bronx to watch the ponies like a real degenerate shouts to him yeah I think that's just like a betting slip is what he gets

the golden betting slip yeah all right taking the leap I have kind of just some of the usual candidates I have Halliburton I have Fox

as for right now Let's have Jalen Brunson on that list, despite our short king taking just attacks from certain places. Just trades all over the place. Because of his height. But over the past 15 games, 27.8 points, 11th in the league. He's definitely hitting a second tier of like scoring capability. I'm not sure if it changes anything materially with the Knicks. But he's clearly like hitting a different level, which is wild because like two to three years ago, this guy was basically Lucas backup.

And a guy who had a lot of trouble scoring over length and surviving in the capacities of playing like a lead guard. Jalen Brunson's evolution in terms of what he's always had the footwork. He's always had the frame of a game that could work, but he stretched it further and further, both in terms of physical distance, like stretching out to three point range, becoming one of the best volume shooters in the league from that distance,

but also just the range of what he can create out of those pivots, the touch, the floaters, the angles he's able to manufacture, against bigger, longer defenders, more athletic defenders. He's an unbelievable shot creator. Really has done an exceptional job this season. And, like, New York has found all kinds of ways to continue to score, despite some of their absences, despite some of the bumps along the way. They just kind of keep chugging along, winning some games,

beating teams like Milwaukee. Like, they just kind of make it work. And Jalen Brunson overwhelmingly is the reason why. Take that, Becky Hammond. I decided to take a different approach. to this, and I picked a team that I thought was making the leap. And my team is the wolves, because I think people underrate what it takes to go from, all right, we're a really good solidly playoff team to, no, we're going to threaten the championship

this year, straight up. And I'm of the belief that the wolves can win a championship this year. I really do feel that way. It's because they have an elite unit, but they also have Anthony Edwards, who has the capability of being the best player on the floor any night against any opponent, right? We've seen it time and time again this season. And I think back to the T, because I think what the wolves were trying to do when they assembled this group, when they went all in for Rudy Gobert, I think they were trying to put themselves in a position

to be a grit-and-grind Grizzlies type. Like, we're going to be 52, 53 wins every single year. If things sort of kind of break our way, we might be able to go to a conference championship and maybe even sneak into a championship, right? I think about the, you know, the starting five player of the month, Atlanta Hawks, right? Who was like, you know, mid-50s, you know, everybody was like, oh, this is one of the best teams in the East, but never could ultimately get over that hump.

It's so hard to get into the championship content. Because it's one thing to go from where, you know, OKC was young team up and coming to be like, no, we're a playoff team now. But to get from we're a playoff team now to know, like, we're one of the four teams that can win the chip this year, that's the hardest leap in the sport to make. And so to me, I think the wolves have made that leap. And I really do think it's because they have a really,

really special talent in Anthony Edwards. And in the playoffs, man, like, when these possessions get grinded down, it's going to take a lot of individual brilliance and, you know, physically overwhelming guys. And having Anthony Edwards, I think really helps them, you know, move forward in that goal. So, so what's my leap candidate? And they're a great one.

But you said two things there was. One, that Anthony Edwards can be the best player on the floor on a nightly basis. And that there's only four teams in your estimation that are competing for the title. But I can't help but notice they just played the thunder. I'm guessing the thunder are not in your four teams. And I know Anthony Edwards wasn't the best player on the floor in that game. They're not in my four teams We love the thunder

We love Chet We love Shay Didn't did not in my four teams Too young What a respect I don't believe in youth From Rob I'm just

I'm just saying Get off my lawn Get off my lawn O Casey Well the Thunder are certainly Taking a leap In their own right They have

Did you see the like The stop and up and under Move that She had Against Gobert late in that game Where Gobert just went flying by him man, Lordy. That dude has some, like, his ability to just hit pause and then everything else just goes past them.

It's incredible. I have a similar player in that vein, a player who's taking the leap. And mind you, this is a lower leap than what we're talking about with the Shays and the foxes and players of that caliber. This play, it better not be on a spurs, Rob. No. Jaime Hockes was. Charles Bassie. Even I would, like, having watched too much Spurs basketball of late, even I would not descend to those depths.

But Jaime Hakez, since kind of popping earlier in the season in a nice little role player capacity, turning out to be one of the best rookies in the league, turning into the kind of player where you can feel the conversation shifting and how people talk about him and think about him. And maybe this is recency bias, him coming off like a career high 31 against the Sixers without Embed. But also over the last month or so, putting up points consistently, continues to make really smart passes. obviously looks like such a freaking Miami Heat player. But the Heat are winning games with him being a prominent part of their team in a way that I probably wouldn't have expected. If you would have told me Jaime Hakez is in the spotlight for Miami as a creator, I would say, oh, Jimmy Butler's out, Bams out. You know, they're trying to tread water while they're dealing with injuries.

But no, they're six and two over the last eight games. Jaime Hakez is putting up 17 a night over the last month. That feels like a guy who's taken a leap, even if it's a leap, kind of. of off of the launch launching pad of his career ultimately. Yeah, it's a bummer that he was in this draft class. Because pretty much any other draft class, he would be well in a way, the rookie of the year favorite. And so, like, nights like that,

where he's basically carrying a legacy team that's just coming off of a finals bid, it kind of goes unnoticed because guys like Victor and Cheddar just doing such dominant things. Do you guys know which team drafted one spot ahead of the heat for Jaime Hawkes? I can't remember where. no that's a good guess uh the los angeles lakers jalen hoodscofino can you imagine the lakers

with honey chafino i believe but yeah thank you i feel like you're just like slowly developing a podcast persona is like clippy from microsoft did you mean chafino can i help you with that um all right uh looking forward what do you guys have as will be taking the leap by season's end? I think, Justin, it's your Orlando Magic collectively. We'll be taking a leap by seasons end. And for me, it kind of ties into the Cavs conversation we're having earlier,

where I'm looking at the east. You know, you have Milwaukee, you have Boston, you have Philly. Miami is going to have a place in that conversation ultimately. But Miami's a team that could end up kind of anywhere in the standings. They could end up, you know, playing one of the top three-seated teams. if Orlando can hang out in 4-5, tell me why I shouldn't pick them to make it out of the first round of the playoffs.

I can't do it. I don't know that anyone can do it. And Orlando has a lot of issues they're still working out, in particular. They can get shaky on an execution level, which makes sense for a team with young point guards who are learning on the job. But the defense is rock-steady,

and what the magic do well is so much hangs on their size in a way that makes it really hard to stop. And so I could see them in, you know, kind of a Knicks spot this year where they roll into kind of a four or five series and really surprise a lot of people with what they're capable of right off the bat with that group of players. Yeah. You know, I thought about the magic a lot because I think it's going to have to be Franz Wagner and Paolo as individuals making the leap to achieve what you're talking about, Rob. Like, these guys have to be overwhelming. They have to be physically dominant for this team to take the next step because they're

complimentary guys like Wendell Carter's just coming back. And, you know, they're complimentary guys are really nice players. Like, we, we, I think any team would like to have those level of role players. But for them to be, you know, win four games in the first rounds, because Paolo is, is great. It's because France is great. And so, yeah, you definitely. got to look to those guys to take it up to a next level. Because I don't think they've been quite all-star level this year,

individually, although in tandem, you know, they provide a hell of a punch. But I think they're going to have to step it up, you know, just another notch against some of the best defenses in the league when they get into the playoffs. I haven't read through the names, but you don't think those guys have been in an all-star level? It's tough to tell you. I'm a big reputation, all-star guy. I'm like, man, I want to see these dudes do something first before it's like,

yo, you know, I average 19 points and I get to go to the All-Star game. You feel me? Like, I haven't been there. Oh, boy. They've been a little better than that. And then do it in the finals and then do it again. I do think. Then we'll consider you an all-star.

I do think to give one specific shout-out with the magic. A guy who in my mind is just destined to become the opposing. team's fan base's most hated player, Cole Anthony has been so good and like really a six-man candidate this season in a way that certainly surprised me. I didn't know that he had quite this kind of level of production and consistency in him, but he's really found a lane. He's really found a niche. And he's got to irritate the hell out of some opponents and some opposing fans in a playoff series. That's for sure. Yeah. That is exactly the type of guy to circle back to the pistons that they need. They need the microwave scorer who could just score against second units.

and that would have probably gotten them a winner to over the past, what is it, two months or so. Good God. Just since we're talking about teams, the Grizzlies, 4-0 with John Morant, they're back. And now last night's win against the Pelicans got a little hairy at times. There were certain celebrations for Jaa that has me a little bit worried long-term about what could happen there. But it's just crazy how everything just looks so much like it's in its right place with Jaa there. like all the concerns we had about Jaron Jackson and and Bain and some of the supplementary players. Like all of a sudden, like everyone is clarified by Jaws emergence there.

And I got to say, I'm a little bit wondering if this team can make the play in race that we kind of jokingly talked about a couple days ago. I mean, I'm certainly not confident enough in the sons or the warriors to say they couldn't. You know? Yeah. And obviously the rockets could fade. It's a young group. They're, you know, they're chasing the playoffs for the first time, really, for all of those young guys.

So there's ways that they can fade. But, yeah, I mean, you know, the stuff that happened to Jaws, toxic as it was, it could serve to be the sort of rallying cry of, you know, nobody believed in us, us against the world, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. What did people not believe in? Flashing gats in the strip club? but, you know, that's neither here nor there. So, yeah, they feel like a galvanized group right now,

and they have the talent. Like, these are high-end players that John Morant plays with, man, when it comes to, you know, Triple J and Bain. So, yeah, I think they're a threat for the play in. How could they not be? Yeah, the reason they're good now is the same reason why we were kind of flummoxed, why they weren't better earlier,

because they do have good players. They do have good complimentary players. in particular. And if anything, Jaws timeout, I think underline two things. One, Desmond Bain is a very good compensatory score, a guy who can make up some ground, who can create more than he's allowed to

on a usual Grizzly's possession in a way that I think is good for second unit. It's good for filling out playoff rotations. And Jaron Jackson Jr. is not. And that's kind of where we're at with those guys. One guy can swell to fill a bigger role when needed and the other one can't. And when you take John Morant out of that ecosystem,

there was just too much airspace to fill. Any other ones you guys have on your list? Maybe players? I just pick the one. No players? Wow. Thanks for doing the work, guys. I'm going to shout out two players here.

One is Anthony Simon. You shouted out like seven at the top, Justin. And then he says no players. All right. Anthony Simons, 14th in scoring over the past 10 games. I don't know if you guys saw that Trailblazers game last night. I'm starting to believe in the scoot, Anthony Simon's back court. Hell, yeah, Justin.

I don't know what that means for Shaden Sharp because Sharp wasn't playing. And obviously, he is a big part of the future there. But I'm starting to see some signs of life there. Simons is clearly a guy. And honestly, I think he's becoming a guy that you can't even talk about trading at this point because he's just been playing so well. Trey Murphy, the third, back in the Pelicans lineup, coming off the bench, 11 games he's only played this year, but 43.7.

three point percentage. One of the best shooters in the league. I think a lot of people had high hopes for him coming into this season before the injury happened. I think they should again. It seems like a critical player for that team. Is he taking the leap though? Because I agree people had high hopes for him,

including internally with the Pelicans. Is he a different player than the player we've seen? He was flashing last year. This is now that we've adjusted to the flashes, we can calibrate. There you go. go. He hasn't done it in the playoffs yet. No. Have they become permanent the flashes or we've just gone from like flashing to strobing?

Yeah, we're strobing right now. Okay. I can do it. I can manage that. Okay. Before we go, we have one last category. Most intriguing disgruntled superstar. Was, who do you have on your list? There's a guy in the NBA who once was disgruntled with the roster who essentially won 70 games every single year. Got his way out of town

first chance that he could. Then cried about the team that he himself put together, literally put together and now forced his way to a new team and is crying again.

The most intriguing disgruntled superstar, I would say, is one Kevin Durant, man. These whispers are real. The idea that he's crying about having to carry a load is hilarious and laughable. But yeah, it's something to monitor because he's done it in incredible positions. Now, look, OKC roster-wise was a great situation.

We're going back that far? But for the love of God, I couldn't blame a guy for wanting to high-tail it out of the goddamn Oklahoma. I mean, the dust. I mean, Jesus Christ. The man was living on the prairie, y'all. I can't kill him for that. You know, but the other stuff that he just made happening and cried about later, it's a pattern at this point.

So you got to keep your eye on what's happening with KD and Phoenix, if only because he's done it two times in a row already. Hold on. Can we just have Waz as Benoit Blanc as like a recurring segment here? Yes. I love it. My word, Kevin Durant.

He's at it again. Your Benoit Blanc is very Stephen A. Smith. It's good. It's good. It's NBA-ified. It is NBA-Fied for sure. But I think this is a good example of how there's different kinds of intrigue

with disgruntled superstars. Like, the sons aren't going to trade Kevin Durant, but he doesn't seem thrilled with the way things are going, nor should he be when they've just dropped nine of 12. games. So what do you do if you're KD right now with your team in again 11th place outside the play in guys injured up and down the roster

who you are now relying on in ways you never probably ever dreamed you would rely on Yusuf Nurkich but here you are seems pretty disgruntled and seems pretty right to be frankly. Man the millennials they're just never happy. You know we give them all the technology in the world we give them all the superstars they can handle

and here they are still griping. It us. Anybody else we want to discuss here? Well, unfortunately, I think who will be the most disgruntled superstar is still Kevin Durant. That's kind of where I'm as. There's never been a more disgruntled superstar in the history of the league, and that's the problem with that dude. He's just constantly unhappy.

Obviously, Zach Levine's not a superstar, but, man, I'm beginning to think that the bulls are dysfunctional enough. management-wise, to not move this guy by the deadline. Like, it really feels like it's possible that they would do this, even as they flourish without the guy, that they would really take this into the off-season and have Levine around. So, you know, that's another guy you got to watch because it feels like, you know, the bulls are putting stuff out there.

We haven't gotten any serious offers. And so they're trying to threaten, like, no, we'll just keep them if we don't like what we get, which I think would be just silly. on their part. Yeah, we recently got Word kind of updating on Vooch's injury status.

He has a groin strain right now. And this is where things have gone with the Bulls where a month ago we see that news and honestly, it just flies right by me. I probably would not even

clock it in a serious way until I was watching the next Bulls game. I see that news today. I'm like, ooh, that's a loss. That's a big deal for a team that Vooch has been

bawling out. The Bulls are playing really well and they're playing really well conspicuously because Zach Levine is not out there. It just seems like this is something that they have to find real resolution too sooner than later because once Levine is back in the lineup, I really hope for the sake of everyone involved

that doesn't get ugly again, but history tells us it's probably going to get ugly again. So as you're grinding Charles Bassie tape, you see the news come across the ticker and you just exclamation points above the head. Wow. Is that not the biggest news? It's not like Charles Bassie got hurt.

Oh, boy. What's going on in San Antonio? This is Justin's time in Louisiana shining through finally. Yeah. This was good for something. All right. Let's wrap it there. We are off on Sunday.

No pod for us. Happy New Year. Celebrate without the group chat crew. But we'll be back the following Wednesday, so a week from now. Thank you to Isaiah Blakelyon production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll see you in the new year. Must be 21 plus and present in select states.

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