The Ringer NBA Show - The Biggest Questions About the Season’s Stretch Run

Episode Date: March 3, 2023

Michael Pina is joined by CBS Sports writer James Herbert to ask and answer some of the biggest questions about the season’s stretch run. Are the Lakers dead? Can Ty Lue ever figure out his rotation (and bench Russell Westbrook)? Is Golden State a sleeping giant? Which teams are going to make the playoffs at the bottom of the Eastern Conference? What’s different about the Sixers this year as opposed to their disappointing past? Will the Celtics or Bucks finish first in the Eastern Conference? And so much more! Host: Michael Pina Guest: James Herbert Producer: Jade Whaley Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's official. One Shining Podcast is back, and I am your host, Tate Frazier. And as March Badness begins, we're covering everything from Selection Sunday all the way to the championship and beyond. We're going to have great guests that are coming through on the show. And look, if you're a friend of the program and you're already subscribed, you don't have to do anything. OSP is back. It's going to be right back in your feed. And if you're not a friend of the program, and this is your first time on the rodeo, then let me tell you this. You need to go to Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast and smash subscribe today because the OSP show is back. Welcome to this super special edition of the Ringer NBA show.

I'm your host for the day. Ringer senior staff writer Michael the pod, Pina, and I'm joined on the other line by my good friend CBS Sports's very own James Herbert. James, how are you doing on this glorious Friday morning? I'm doing well. Thank you for having me. Awesome. So there's so much going on in the NBA right now.

The Bucks are on a 16 game winning streak. Durant is throwing fireballs in a son's uniform. The MVP conversation is getting ugly in my Twitter mentions. But with only about 20 games left before the playoff start, on today's episode, I thought it would be fun for you and I to ask and answer some important questions about the stretch run. What's so fun about this season is just the big picture unpredictability that underlines everything. There are injuries, there are huge trays, there's questionable, I underline and stress questionable buyout signings. And so much feels unsettled.

So let's try and settle it, James. Can I kick us off with the question that is on everyone's mind right now? Are you about to just like go at Dwayne Deadman or something right now? James, are the Lakers dead? What do you think? I guess it depends, like, at what point does the life stop for a season? Like, is their consciousness dependent on them having a chance to, like, win a playoff series or, like, compete for a championship or make the playoffs? You could, like, draw the line a bunch of different places.

I mean, I didn't think even before LeBron went down that this team had much of a shot to do anything serious. I thought they were more balanced. I liked kind of the way the pieces fit better after the deadline and all of that. I think the team is better equipped now to deal with LeBron's absence. than it would have been if they hadn't made the trade that they made at the deadline. So, like, I don't actually know that my answer would be that different today than it was a couple of weeks ago. Like, their odds of getting there are lower. But, like, that's still, like, conceivable they could get in the play-in.

And if LeBron is back by the play-in, like, maybe they can get into the playoffs. I just think they're kind of drawing dead after that. And, yeah, I want to see what they kind of look like the next little while. They're playing a lot of teams that are in the very similar position to them in the next few weeks. They have like two games against the Rockets before the season ends. But other than that, pretty much every game is against the team that's either fighting for playoff position or play in positioning. Dilo is hurt. Like Anthony Davis just had to miss the second game of a back-to-back kind of out of nowhere.

And then Darvindham claimed that they had been planning this for weeks. I don't know. If the broad is out, they need everybody else. And they don't even have everybody else right now. So I'm not feeling like super optimistic about them. right now, but like I wasn't before either. I think they're dead. They have such a soft schedule that you kind of touched on going forward.

According to Tankathon, they have the second easiest schedule for the rest of the season. They have 10 games at home this month, only four on the road, which is helpful. Jared Vanderbilt is Dennis Rodman now. He's awesome. We both love him. He had 17 rebounds and that massive comeback against the Dallas Mavericks last week in 27 minutes. Just absolutely ridiculous stuff.

I just think that, you know, I understand that when a star goes out, like LeBron, that teams are able to mentally prepare for something like that. And you can tread water and they have some talented pieces now, especially if Anthony Davis is healthy and playing every game and playing at least 35, 36 minutes a night. He had a really good February. But like, shredding water and being average. You're in 11th place, and you've got the Blazers, a team that really wants to win

and has incentive to win for a variety of reasons right behind you. You have every team above you wants to make the playoffs or make the play in, except maybe the jazz. You could say the jazz, but like the jazz are just like a competent bunch, even still after making the moves that they made at the trade deadline. So, like, even if they were to get the 10 seed or the 9th seed and the play-in, winning two play-in games against, like, a quality team, like the West, those teams at the bottom, like Zion is potentially going to come back. Like, the Pelicans are really good. Brandon Ingram is playing unbelievable basketball of late. I just, I just think they're dead.

Like, the best case scenario is that, the 9 or the 10 seed, I think. and having to win two play-in games to get to the playoffs. And then once that happens, you're going up against the Denver Nuggets or the Memphis Grizzlies in round one? Like, are you beating them? No, of course not. So, like dead.

I think they're dead. I like you brought up the Pelicans because I think they're an interesting contrast here and they're in sort of similar positions, right? Like they have Zion Williamson out. We don't know exactly what's going on there. But they at least seem to be kind of trending upward right now.

And we have seen this team. I mean, even like last year's Pelicans team, while on balance, they were better that year without Zion than they've been without Zion. This year, like we've seen like a pretty similar group play really well without Zion Williamson for a long stretch.

And my sort of optimism level for like what that team could be should he come back. And also like who they are without him is just on a different level than it is for the Lakers. where I can envision a best-case scenario for the Lakers where they're in the play-in and LeBron is back in playing. But I just don't really see much upside after that, whereas the Pelicans, I kind of think like anything can happen. Like, I still have kind of fuzzy feelings about the Pelicans team pre-Zion injury and how much fun they were to watch really early in the season. And at that point, like, when they're playing the best basketball, they didn't have Ingram.

So there's like secret upside there that we haven't even quite seen. Right. It could make the argument the Lakers have that too, just because this group. is so new and isn't whole right now, but I just don't know that the talent is quite the same. I don't know that the piece is kind of fit quite as well. And there's just a whole different kind of pressure there that is different. And I'm not, you know, I just, I guess if I'm trying to twist myself into like some sort of, like, positive feeling about this team, it's like, let's see what AD can do now.

because at times they've been short stretches, but the stretches have taken place. He has played like an MVP candidate. And now they just like desperately need that from him every night. And I do mean every night the rest of the way if they're going to actually make up some ground here. You got a question for me now? Yeah.

Let's go. Will the bucks make me look incredibly stupid? You elaborate for the listeners who don't know what that means? I will. The last time. You and I talked on this particular platform. I made a prediction that at some point in the calendar year of 2023, like, Bucks panic would come back.

So we would be talking about sort of similar things that we were talking about when the Bucks were down in that playoff series against the Nets. Like, oh, like, can this team's half-court offense do anything? Like, does Janus need different sort of playmaking next to him? Like, Budenholzer will receive some, like, serious criticism. And basically, like, there will be some sort of existential crisis for the franchise. Again, part of that is because when they've looked not at their best this year, it's been for similar reasons in years past, like namely the half court offense.

And also because, like, Chris Middleton's heading toward free agency. It's sort of uncertain where this team is going in a post-Mittleton, post-Broke-Lopez world, whenever that may be. And I think there'll be some serious questions if they lose earlier than people expect. this year now, since then, they have become the hottest team in the NBA. I didn't lose in February. They're doing this despite the fact Middleton is still like coming up the bench, not playing huge minutes. So there's like even more upside theoretically on the offensive end. I still have some questions about what, how this is all going to end for them. I mean, they're still in February like the 12th best offense in the NBA. I've liked the Joe Ingalls edition.

That's probably like the guy I watch most closely when I watch them. He's injured. He changes them from who they were in the past. Their half court offense has been way, way, way better with him on the court this year than when he's on the bench. So maybe they just lean on that. They lean on Middleton a little more increases his minutes and everything is fine. And they, like, you know, get to the finals. Maybe you win another championship, all of that. But I still kind of like, I think they're going to face some very stiff competition.

And when Ingalls is playing a big role, like, teams are just going to be here. We're going to you. And we'll see how they kind of cover for him. So will the bucks make you look stupid? Was the question, right? Yes. Pretty much. I don't.

I mean, obviously they look tremendous, right? Like, you've laid out all the reasons why Janus is one of the best players in the world. I just really like the flexibility that they have now with Jay Crowder too. Ingalls, Jay Crowder, a lot of size on the wing. You can play small if you need to, which is something that they did. when they won the title with PJ Tucker, who they let go because they were a cheap organization, which we never forget over here. And, you know, they played this lineup against the magic that was like,

Grayson Allen, I'm blanking. It was like a very, it was like three white guys. Janice of five. Yes, Pat Conant. Yes, I'm totally blanking for some reason. And basically, Janice was at the five with three white guys. And I think Crowder was at the four. And it was just like a really interesting unit that I think can be effective in the type of

unit that you can go to in a playoff series and a pinch for a little bit if you need some scoring and their offense, as you said, even through this winning streak is 13th or 12th, 14th or something in the NBA. Cleaning Glass had them at 12th in February. Okay. NBA had them at 13th. So that's, you know, that's going to be an interesting one in the playoffs and it is every year for them. I think at the end of the day, like,

Like, are they going to make you look stupid? Is an interesting question, but are they, Mike, actually one of the questions that I wanted to ask you was who's going to finish in first in the Eastern Conference. Because I think that whoever has home court, I think it's critical, honestly. And I believe the Celtics, obviously a huge reason why that they beat the Bucks last year, in addition to Chris Middleton not playing, was having that game seven at home. I don't know if Grant Williams has that type of performance in Milwaukee. Maybe he does. I don't know. But that's just significant with these teams is when you're kind of splitting hairs between them.

And so, like, right now the Bucks are in first place by a hair. And what do you think about just these two kind of coming down the stretch here with, like, just first place really matters? And I think that basketball reference, they're pretty. projection system gives the Celtics 55% chance of finishing in first, so a slight lead. But, I mean, the Bucks just looked great. Like Drew Holiday, I kind of laughed when he made the All-Star team, and I regret doing that a little. I mean, he's just been absolutely tremendous, like an unstoppable offensive player over this

stretch. And obviously, the defense is the defense, and their defense has just been absolutely dominant in first place. So who's coming in first? I agree with you that it matters. I still kind of lean the Celtics, but I mean, we got to see which team

it's going for it more. Historically, you know, the Bucks don't want to play their guys too many minutes in the regular season. The Celtics have also, you know, they have rested guys throughout the year. They have been pretty conservative

when it comes to managing nagging injuries and the like, we'll kind of see. I think Chris Middleton's minutes on the bucks end, that's a stat to kind of manage as they're going down the stretch to see how serious they are. Maybe they don't even think they need to bring them up, though, the way that they're playing. We got to see them struggle a bit before I think they're going to consider making a big change there or ramping up faster than they're planning to.

But, yeah, I mean, I still, like there's something about just the balance that the Celtics have, the depth that the Celtics have. I just have fewer questions about them in just. general. So I would probably pick them. Honestly, like, I agree the home court matters, but like, I still would probably pick the Celtics in a series against them regardless. For the record, I would too, but I just wanted to be nice. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, the way the Bucks are playing right now, again, like they just, I feel like I felt like an idiot when they won the title. I, I am primed to feel like an idiot again when there's no existential crisis. And they,

potentially knock off the Celtics in a playoff series because I've just kind of like watching the Celtics all year. I just see fewer weaknesses. I see fewer holes. I see like a direct response to the way that they went out last year. Not to say that the Bucks haven't learned from like their kind of low points in the past. I think they obviously have. Like you can see the way they change their defense a little bit this season in terms of the shot profile. You can see in terms of the kind of players that they brought in even. Crowder was, I think, a necessary addition for them to, like, I think their chances of beating the Celtics are much better with Crowder on this roster than without him. I think they needed that size, they needed that toughness,

they needed another forward that can hang defensively and make threes. You can, you know, put the ball to the ball to a little bit and do all that. His shooting is going to be critical in that series. And they've just, like, obviously they missed the PJ Tucker archetype. I don't know that he is quite, like, let's say they get to the finals and they're going up against his former team. I don't know that he is hounding Kevin Durant quite as well as PJ Tucker did in that Brooklyn series a few years ago. But, like, more broadly speaking, I think he kind of fits in that that hole that PJ Tucker's departure left the bucks with a couple of years ago. Yes, I agree with all of that.

So, James, my next question for you is one that I think might derail this entire podcast, but I just have to, it's just on my mind and has been. We were texting about it last night. And to put it plainly, will Los Angeles Clippers head coach Tyloo ever figure out his rotation, i.e. will he pull Russell Westbrook out of the starting lineup and either limit his minutes or take him out of the rotation altogether? I think that this question is just like, as someone who pick the clippers to win the championship, who for whatever reason, even as I'm watching them, just get absolutely shillacked in the second

half by the Warriors last night, still have faith in their ability to do so. Like, this is just a paramount question. And I was a believer that bringing in Westbrook would be kind of a no harm, no foul decision. as long as you followed certain caveats, like don't start him, don't finish him, don't finish with him, don't play him with other non-shooters,

don't have him logging more minutes than like four of your best players. And like Tyler was just gone against all of these, broken all of them. Like he's started all four games, they're o' and four and all of them. He's playing with Mason Plumlee. he's playing more minutes than Eric Gordon and Norm Powell and Nick Batum and Terrence Mann. It's just like, what are, like, I, you listen to Draymond Green after that Warriors game,

and he's just describing the strategy of, hey, we're not going to guard Russell Westbrook when he's on the perimeter, which is what will happen in the playoffs. And last night, you go up against a championship level defense, which is what the Warriors can still be. And that's what it looks like. It's horrendous. They scored like, what, 87 points or something like that? And they were not good when Russell was on the bench either, so whatever. But that was mostly because Norm Powell was just barfing up all over the court.

They missed open threes. Yes. Yes. So I just think that this is a really, really, really significant question. I don't know if everyone agrees with that because there's a lot of people who just don't believe in the Clippers. And that's fine. I do. And I think this is like self-sabotage to the 10th degree.

and I'm very, very curious to see, we're recording this on Friday morning. I'm very curious to see what Russell Westbrook's role is tonight against the Sacramento Kings. I don't know. It's just like a really worrisome situation already. Yeah, I want to be fair to Westbrook. I mean, until last night,

I don't think he'd had a straight-up bad game. I think he has basically played the role that they wanted him to play. Like, he pushes the pace. He, like, gets in the paint. He creates shots. I mean, he's created shots at the rim for big guys. He's created threes.

For other players, I think sometimes, like, maybe this is a stretch, but sometimes I've seen the clippers, like, other guys on the clippers, like getting into the offense a little bit faster, pushing after made baskets a little bit because it feels like there's been a team-wide kind of effort to stop being so damn slow. Now that they have Russ on the team that's been just emphasized, people are kind of following his lead in that respect, hasn't been 100% bad.

But, like, they've been bad. when he's been on the floor. And he has hurt the spacing, as you would expect. It was to an extreme degree last night. I mean, that was insane. It was laughable. And, you know, they have some defensive issues, too. My Clippers question was going to be,

well, like, Clippers ever stopped being so damn frustrating because I think for people like you and me who have not just written them off, like we see that upside. and then we see them kind of mess around. And I think defensively, you know, we could count on at the beginning of the season when you had no idea who was going to be in the lineup, but you're pretty sure Kawhi Leonard was not going to be.

You had no idea what the offense was going to look like from night tonight. Like you could actually count on them being a really good defensive team. Like they were an elite defensive team for a long time this season. And for the last like 20 games or so, the numbers say they've been an awesome offensive team. The defense has been kind of bad. and that is strange. And they have all the pieces to be a good defensive team.

Russell Westbrook, in theory, is a fine switch defender because he is strong. He can kind of like, you know, you watch him against a bigger guy and he can be physical and all of that. But the problem is, like, while they have like the theoretical pieces to do all of that, like, guys just get blowbys against this team. there are miscommunications on switches all the time, like, especially off the ball. Like, Russell Westbrook is not the most, like, fundamentally sound defender in the world. And the way that he is as a defender where it's like he looks like it should be good and he has the physicality to do it, he can, like, in theory, like, you switch him and it's okay. Like, that is kind of a metaphor for like the whole Clippers team right now. It's like they just should be better on defense.

The communication should be better. Obviously, like, they've been missing Zubots, like, for most of this stretch. That is some rim protection. They don't have a lot behind him. Like, Mason Plumley. Who's arguably their third most important player, even with Plumley. Yeah. I mean, Plumley, like, love the guy.

The way he vertically contests at the rim, like, very fundamentally sound solid, has been doing this for, like, a decade, whatever. Not the most imposing guy down there. He brings him size, but it's kind of not the same. I think there is some upside here, but they just desperately need to find what they had going before the Russ pickup. Like they seemed to be working towards something. They had an identity.

The rotation was actually like almost set in stone to a degree that some Clippers fans were being frustrated by some of their favorite players, like not even getting a chance. Like Luke Kinnard, who had shot so well for them. them all year. And some games were just not even getting on the court because Ty Lou was just like, let me try to get some continuity and consistency with this group. We finally have it and it's working. It's working on both ends. Everybody seems comfortable. Covington was sitting there like, hello, I'm a competent NBA player. I can like do a bunch of stuff. I can like protect the rim, even though I'm six, seven, please let me play basketball. And Tyler is like, nope, like we have our group.

Now Covington's still sitting there, but like they're not playing that well. And they seem like they don't know who they are. And that sucks because there was this tiny period of time when it seemed like they did know who they were. We are both Terrence Mann guys. I know that. And like the fact that he isn't playing more is driving me crazy. The fact that Batum isn't playing more is driving me crazy. And it's not all about Russ. There's some other stuff going on. But I think the Russ acquisition has had a lot of like downstream effects that have all been really bad. I think if they win those first two games, which were toss-up games, and he played, he played well in them. He didn't even struggle.

Like, he really bought into the role. He was disciplined. He wasn't hijacking the offense. He wasn't turning it over. He was pushing the pace. It's really funny. Like, their pace this season with him on the floor is 108 and regularly. It's 98.

Just like completely, they play just so different when he's on the court. And those are in ways that are positive for them. and what they needed. But their offense is also just like terrible when he's on the course. The worst offense in the NBA, despite a lot of those minutes coming with Kauai and Paul George beside him. I mean, I generalized this question more about the rotation than Russ.

I know he was kind of penciled in there as well, just kind of shoved in. But like, why doesn't Nick Batum play more minutes? Why doesn't he start? I don't, I don't get it. Like, why is Marcus Morris just here,

this placeholder starting for who doesn't close games on a regular basis and when he does it's like a disaster like i i just i don't really i don't really get that one that's curious to me terence man who was the starting point guard had a lot of value on the defensive end for them and when they were in new york ty lu spoke about that he just he loved the looks that they were able to give defensively, particularly with how it freed up Kauai Leonard off ball. He's maybe their best rebounder, one of their best rebounders. He can just like roam and trap the box and protect the rim and just do all these things, like be in passing lanes.

Same with Paul George. So you take that away. And I mean, you look at like Jordan Poole in the third quarter last night when Russell Westbrook was his man, it was just like, it's like disaster. It's like ridiculous. Like Paul George is just looking at him and like with his. just palms up multiple times. Like, what happened?

Why is he wide open? What is going on? So, I don't know. I still believe in this team like an idiot. I am. I don't know. Like, if they, this Westbrook thing, like, after the Timberwolves loss, where it's like the Timberwolves were in a really bad place going into that game.

The Clippers are healthy. Clippers are at home. and Anthony Edwards doesn't even play well and you lose that game and Westbrook in the fourth quarter in the last like three minutes is doing a lot of stuff and I'm like what is going on?

Eric Gordon plays seven minutes in that game I just, that was just like really frustrating for me and then just to watch the second half last night it was just with the lead. They blew like a double digit lead at half time I think so they were cruising.

I mean they weren't making shots in the first half either but they were like the defense looked better. I mean maybe the Warriors were just missing and shots. Maybe that's all it was, and we were just fooled by it. But it seemed like they were cruising toward a win, and then I just, I got like, bad Rockets vibes. Like, I got Rockets vibes from like two different, this is going to break

your heart, two different sort of iterations of the James Hardin Rockets losing. One was when they missed the, like, 273s in a row because the Clippers had their own, like, extremely long cold streak. And the second was like the following year when Durant went out and the Warriors just like warriors them to death with their offense. And they were just like, you know, a second late. Like one little mistake. And then it was a basket.

And it's like the clippers, you're watching them on defense. And it's like, okay, like they're matched up. Everything's fine. Oh, no, one little thing. Basket. Wide open shot lay up. And it's just like. Which loss do you think is more painful for Rockets fans today?

Oh, the one like game seven. Really? Come on. I thought they were. I kind of disagree. No, because if I was a Rockets fan, I would look at that game and I would always be like, look, man, like Chris Paul was hurt, didn't play in this game. We had all these open looks.

We just missed them. We were right there. Like, give us an asterisk. But the other loss is just like, oh my God. Like, we just weren't as good. Like, like, this team was just clearly better than us. And like, we have something wrong, like fundamentally with us. and this was a waste of everyone's time.

That's how I feel about that loss. I agree, but that's why the first one would bother me more if I were a rocket's fan, because it was like, that's the one where they like could have won the championship, and they believe they should have, I think a lot of them do. Whereas the other one, it's like, well, I mean, look, they, Warriors just played way better. I know it's your turn for a question, but since we were just talking about the Warriors, can I ask my next one?

My next question was Warriors anyway. Oh, my goodness. Wow. Okay. Well, my question is just are the Warriors of Sleeping Giant? Was that basically yours? Yeah, mine was a little more Gary Payton the second specific. All right. We're not the idea. I'm sorry. No, but the idea was, okay, it was Gary Payton the second specific, but like the entire idea around it is like when he is back, when they are whole, when it's him and Steph and Wiggins. like is this just an obvious championship contender

and a team that we should be taken seriously in that respect? Gary Payton the second or not, and I'm not, I don't mean to be, I'm not disrespecting him at all. I think he's very good and was important when they won the championship. But I also think that Dante DiVincenzo can slide into those minutes

and the player that you might be needing to replace in the postseason is Otto Porter, but that's a different conversation. The fundamental thing that we're both agreeing on is are the Warriors a Sleeping Giant. That's the question. I think they are. Look, like, they've been inconsistent all season. They've lacked poise.

They've been terrible on the road. Their defense has come and gone. There are nights when they just don't want to get back in transition. I just like to be the champs you got to beat the champs right like that's just what it is this the trio Dremont Clay who by the way is making more threes per game than at any point in his career just one of the craziest stats incredible stuff clay Steph Dremont that trio if they're healthy and you have healthy Kavon Luni healthy Andrew Wiggins I'm not a Jordan Poole person, but I think he's important a little bit.

They will need him in the playoffs. They would be complimenting Jordan Poole. Just through gritted teeth. Look, like, I think that the way they play, and particularly on the defense event, I mean, I watched their win against the Blazers. I fell asleep at halftime thinking that the Blazers were just, going to wash them and woke up the next morning, didn't check the score, watched the second half and was just kind of like, oh my God, the Warriors.

Like this is, they're throwing triangle twos at Dame the entire game. And like not many, like teams that can do stuff like that, I just have so much respect for. I think Draymond's still the best help defender in the NBA. Steph before he went down with the first injury in mid-December, it was 5040 for 90-something. averaging 30 points a game. He was an MVP candidate. Yeah. So, like, they're just, why, like, the fact that they're not now scuffling for the

plan, like, if they're the four seed, or the five, let's say they're the five or four seed, like, why can't they win the title? They're, like, I'm a huge Denver Nuggets fan. I think they're really good. I think they're much better, obviously, than they were the past two seasons. and better equipped for a postseason run, particularly in the defensive end. But it is not the greatest matchup for Nicole Yokic. I will happily admit that.

Not happily, but I will admit that. And if you get them in the second round, I think that would be a really fun series, really competitive. But if you were to pick the Warriors, especially if they won their first round series against the Phoenix Suns, like I'm sorry like that's just a formidable team it just is and they you have to beat them and they don't go they don't beat themselves and they play as style that's just like different from everyone else so I don't know like last year going to the postseason like I don't think a lot of people remember this but they basically had like no minutes and no encore chemistry with their best lineups and Steph was coming off the bench in that first round series against the nuggets just like didn't matter. It's the playoffs. Like, these guys are gamers.

Like, so I don't think it's Gary Payton the second dependent. He would obviously help if he was healthy and he came back. I just like and respect this team so much. And we both know, like, the playoffs and the regular season are two different sports. That's one of the fundamental reasons why I still cling to the clippers because I think they're constructed for the postseason and not the regular season. And I feel that way about. Golden State Warriors and just like their mentality and how they lock in and how they focus and

how they can adjust and all the different lineups they can play, they're not going to get flustered in any environment in the playoffs versus just like taking nights off in the middle of January because they're in Chicago. You know what I mean? Like there's just they're they should be terrifying. I think I would not want to play them in a postseason series. I think if you believe in the clippers or the Warriors then what you are clinging to is that the notion that versatility, the ability to make adjustments in between games, the ability to play different styles, find different lineups, all of that stuff, the ability to kind of know how to figure things out in a playoff series matters more than like your regular season track record

and numbers and that kind of thing. And I think you can find support for that. You look at the past few years. I mean, most of the teams, like all the teams that have won championships, like they have been great in the regular season too, but I think you have seen, you know, the Warriors last year, as you said, going into the playoffs, a lot of people are sort of like, well, the sons have earned the right to be the favorites. Like, they're the number one team. You look at their net rating. You look at this.

You look at that. And it's like, well, like, when you look at when the Warriors had their guys, you look at the beginning of this season, like, they were the number one team. Why are we punishing them for, like, basically getting hurt? Like, if they have their guys, they're going to be really good. and that's what it turned out to be. You saw them, you know, make some adjustments throughout the playoffs, shorten their rotations, try different guys in different situations, survive somehow an injury to the like magnificently

important Gary Payton the second early in the playoffs and bring him back at the best possible time when they needed him to guard your beloved Celtics star wings on the perimeter and pressure them and make the Celtics get into their offense later and all of that. And they end up winning the championship. look at the bucks and how they evolved and played different styles, how the Raptors got better in like every series as they went toward a championship, how the Lakers would somehow, for some reason, at the end of every important series, they'd no longer be like starting Dwight Howard.

Like, funny how that worked. Like they figured out what worked. They were just versatile enough to win a championship. I think if you look at the Warriors, like maybe it doesn't matter that their bench was, like, has been pretty bad. numbers-wise for most of the season, maybe it doesn't matter what their numbers are when Steph is not playing because Steph is going to be playing

upwards of 40 minutes in must-win games because at the beginning of the year, Dante DiVincenzo wasn't super comfortable and now he has a pretty long track record of being really good. The reason why I kind of wanted to talk about Gary Payton the second is because I think in some ways he's exactly what they need.

Right? Like he is just like they need, they've needed depth, they've needed more defensive versatility. Di Vincenzo is, I think he's fit in as well as everybody thought. He's such a smart player.

He does a lot of things for them. In terms of just like locked down one-on-one defense, like it just, it's not the same thing. And GP2, I think, is unlike almost anyone in the NBA in that respect. Like, he's elite among the elite of one-on-one, like just point-of-attack defenders. I am interested, though, to see how it works and what the lineups all look like, because they haven't had him, and because a lot of the ways

that they were able to sort of unlock him last year was to play him next to Otto Porter, to play him next to Namanya B. Elisa, neither of whom is still on the team. So I think they're probably going to have to use him in smaller lineups than they did last year, where he is functionally kind of the big, and he's next to either Dremond or Looney,

and then, like, next to them, you have, like, Steph and Wiggins and Poole or Steph and Wiggins and DeVincenzo or whatever, and it's just a little bit of a smaller look than they had last year. Maybe that works in some matchups. Maybe it doesn't work in others. So I think he can really help, but I think it might look a little bit different than it did last year.

Yeah, I think if you just look at their rotation and their roster generally, I feel pretty confident in their top seven through a playoff run. And then you're just kind of looking for that eighth guy is a comminga, maybe. do you need nine guys, probably. Okay, so then you have Cumminga and you have GP2, and then you're kind of set, right? So, yeah, I, I just, I like the Warriors a lot. The NBA season is heating up,

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Okay, so one spread tonight that I have my eye on that I suggest is the Phoenix Suns are giving three and a half points to the Chicago Bulls. The Phoenix Suns have Kevin Durant on them in case you've heard. and I anticipate that offense just going ballistic, even though the Bulls have been really good and stout. Over the past few weeks, Devin Booker, Kevin Durant, even in limited minutes, Chris Paul, just a really effective explosive offense. So that's got to be my pick that I would suggest for Friday night. So don't miss the chance to get your no sweat first bet up to $1,000 in bonus bets

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slash problem gambling, 1-8-7-7-8-Hope-N-Y or text Hope, N.Y. 1-800-552-4700, or visit www.8800 gambler.net. One thing we didn't really talk about is, I just wonder about, like, psychologically, as an organization, kind of shedding James Wiseman and really committing to, okay, this is what we are. We're not really worried about the future as much. We're solely focused on the present and maximizing this magical trio and I don't know what Tremont's short-term future is going to be, but like right now, this is, this is it. This is who we are. So yeah, there's Gary. Okay, let's move on. Do you want to do the question? I know we kind of like just tied questions there, but I can go or

you want to go? What do you want to do? How do you want to do this? I'll just ask the question. Ask the question. Stephen Adams is a real MVP, Peanut. We keep talking about these teams that, like, have some sort of upside, like, by virtue of the fact they're playing, like, not quite as we imagine them in a theoretical playoff series. And I just wonder if, like, anything about this grizzly slide is relevant at all? Because they were, like, 31 and 15 when Adams got hurt, the slide, it, like, sort of started, I guess, and they lost two games. Like, one was a one-point

loss of the Lakers, that Shannon Sharp game. And then there's a two-point loss of Suns, like, whatever. The offense, just, like, it sucks without Adams. It has, like, they they can't get the offensive rebounds. They miss his screening a lot. Like, this is not a team that plays like beautiful half-court basketball or anything. They rely on the stuff that he did. And so much of it is, like, you get in the paint and whether it's, I mean, Jaws the most obvious one, but it's a team full of guys who they take floaters.

And a lot of the times they go in, other times it just draws the big away. And then Stedham Adams is the best offensive rebounder on planet Earth. And he just puts it back in. Defensively, the numbers haven't been like that much worse, but I think that matters a lot too. Like, he, it, Jeron Jackson is an easier time avoiding fouling out of games if he's next to Stephen Adams, not just playing five all the time. It unlocks him more as the amazing help side defender that he is. So like, it's like I am not being 100% serious when I say is he the real MVP. But in terms of value to the team, like I just, I think we have seen it.

His absence has been very telling. And I think it's funny that the Grizzlies are sort of this, I don't know, like an internet joke now because jaw talks trash and like people think they're too cocky and Dylan Brooks dresses crazy and does wild things on the floor. Whereas like before the Adams injury, it was like this was this like really just amazing story. Everybody was talking about how they actually, they weathered all these injuries and they stuck together while other teams were falling apart. Turns out, yeah, they can weather injuries to John Morant. We saw that, like more last season, this season. They can weather injuries. Jaron Jackson, we saw the beginning of this year, to Desmond Bain,

who was out for a long time in the beginning of the year. But not Stephen Adams, man. They cannot afford to not have him on the court. So I'm looking at the numbers now that you bring this up since Stephen Adams went out, and their offense is terrible. Their net rating is about league average. There's still fourth in defensive rating, which is kind of what is just, the backbone of them as a basketball team.

What's really interesting about Adams, and I've thought about this ever since covering the Minnesota Timberwolves, Grizzlies first round series last year, and how Adam, they lose game one. And then Taylor Jenkins just kind of pulls Stephen Adams out of the series because of Carl Anthony Towns and the way he just kind of discombobulates defenses

with his ability to space as a five. and Stephen Adams in reporting this other story I came across just all this stuff that this is kind of weird but Stephen Adams has like spent basically his entire off season working on how to defend better up to touch being able to move in space not being a defensive liability in a series like that

being more comfortable in the perimeter defensively and if you look at the numbers the second spectrum numbers like he's been great this year defensively in those spots defending pick and rolls like much better than he was last year. I'm not saying he's like switching out on guards and like being, but he's just like, do you remember like Tristan Thompson back when the calves were amazing? Like, Stephen Adams just kind of looks like that. Like he's just at the level and then he's able to recover and you don't really get anywhere with the way he moves sideline to sideline. So that's just really, really important. And in a playoff series, if he's not a plate off the floor, they're just a completely different basketball team because I thought it was a mistake for Jenkins to take Adams out of that series as quickly as he did.

He's like their entire identity in a lot of ways and how they just bully you. He just, there's no answer for him physically. And so that was just really, that's just an interesting little tidbit with Stephen Adams that I've been kind of marinating on when I think about the Memphis Squislies and his value to them going forward. But yeah, Stephen Adams, I don't know if he'll be on my MVP ballot. I can't say right now it's too soon. There's five spots, obviously. Damien Lillard's been playing tremendous basketball of late. It's close between those two, though.

Those two have both been just tremendous, and their value is shown through. Okay, I have kind of a, I have a fun one that's going to make you, we did not share any of these questions with each other beforehand. And a question like this is really why, because I love springing stuff like this on you. Okay. Which of the following two teams are making the playoffs, not the play in, the playoffs? The playoffs. The Brooklyn Nets, the Miami Heat, the Atlanta Hawks, Toronto Raptors, and the Washington Wizards. two of these five teams

you can only pick two of them making the playoffs I need to pull up the standings to just see who is in pole position here okay so you had

all right did you include the Knicks no because I think the Knicks are like really good okay all right should I have given you three teams or did I mess up my math

I think I'm good with two, maybe three. Do we need three? I'll give you three. Okay. I'll say, I'll say, so we're basically going the six, seven, eight spot. Yes, yes. I'll say, I'll say, I actually like the way Toronto's playing with Pertil. I think I'm going to put them in.

I feel not confident at all based on how their season is gone, but I really, it's kind of like the Stephen Adams thing, honestly. It's like, they're just a completely different team with that dude. just they it's like very similar how like what he does for them honestly on both end their defense has been like crazy better like I think like no one in the NBA has maybe been as like important in terms of like an on-off situation than then Pertil has but then offensively I mean the screens he sets that changes Van Vleet's life it changes like pretty much any one who's running in Pick and Rolls life so Toronto's I wrote a little bit about this in preparation for this exact question but Toronto's offensive

rating with Pertl and Fred Van Fleet on the court as 120.3. Yeah, of course. Since they made the trade. Van Fleet looks like a different player with him. Even the other night when he wasn't making any shots. Yeah, no, it's just different. Yeah, he's just, it's one of the better pick and, I mean, it's a actual pick and roll combination for a point guard who knows how to function as a pick and roll ball handler.

So it's just a total game changer for him, exactly. So you're picking, you're putting Toronto on for the record, Toronto is one. of the teams that I also think is going to make the playoffs. Yeah, I'll put Toronto in. I have to put Miami in. I feel weird about it, but I just, like Jimmy in a play-in situation, like I'm not bidding against that guy. Like, they've had such a weird year.

Love and Zeller, like, change them a little bit. Like, they give them handoff hubs and stuff like that. I feel weird about it, but I'm going to pick Miami. And then I need to pick one more between what, Brooklyn, Atlanta and Washington. You know, this question was a lot sexier when I thought you could only pick two teams because I messed up, but we'll go with three is like actual reality. So that's perfectly fine.

Can I just take Brooklyn, even though I feel horrible about it? Like, I would feel way better about this Brooklyn team if there was more kind of a runway for them to figure out who they are because they, I mean, they don't know. they're doing. They don't, their defense should be way better. Like, they have the personnel to be the best defensive team in the league. They're just not. They're not kind of always on the same page. In that respect, the offense often hurts their defense because the offense has been mostly bad. They have a ton of spacing and shooting, but some games, like, they're just not really in much rhythm with their drive-and-kick game. They're not creating kind of looks they want.

And if they miss a couple of threes, it's like they don't have, like, it's an obvious thing to say because they just traded away two superstars, but they don't have, like, the runstopper guy. They don't have the guy that's, like, going to get to the line or get an easy two-point shot or, like, get something comfortable and just kind of keep games at bay. So, like, they often find themselves, at least so far, like, trying to come back from, like, a big deficit or a game that seems like they're right there and suddenly, oh, man, it's like there's just this run that's happening. but they built just enough of a cushion to where, like, what I'm basically betting on is that

if they're in the play-in, by the time that the play-in is happening, which is like, you know, six weeks from now, month and a bit, that they will have figured out a rotation, they'll have figured out an identity, and they'll be just more solid. and that will be enough to kind of get them past an Atlanta, a Washington, or whomever that is. I don't feel awesome about what I've seen so far. Like, I mean, frankly, they've just been worse than I thought they would be after the two trades.

But I do see the outlines of a good team. An unconventional team, because they have to run, like, it has to be a system thing more than just a straight, like, conventional NBA offense. Like, I want them to kind of play, like, buds Atlanta Hawks did. And, like, that team had, like, a bunch of, like, really, really smart veterans who, like, establish something really special together. And it's, like, completely unrealistic to, like, assume that a team put together mid-season

with a bunch of guys in their mid-20s are going to figure it out immediately. But maybe another six weeks, they'll be closer. Like, I think the talent is there. You just, yeah. And, you know, I wrote this story about Nick Claxton last week. And one of the first things he said to me when I sat down with them was like, we have the potential to be the best defense in the NBA. But we just need to gel first. And you're right.

I don't know if they have enough time to do that this season. Offensively, I think role definition is a pretty big issue. And they don't have enough ball handlers. And when I say role definition, it's like, okay, McKell Bridges goes from what he was his entire career in Phoenix. Knicks playing next to Chris Paul and Devin Booker and DeAndre Ait. And to now it's like, all right, you're either like, well, there are stretches where you're going to be the primary ball handler now. And what does that mean?

And what does that look like for you? And you're playing with guys you've never really played before besides Cam Johnson. And like, you know, there's obviously the Ben Simmons thing that we don't have to get into. But when Nick Clarkson sits, they play like Doria Finney Smith at the five. Like, they're just so small for stretches. Or they play sharp at the five, and that's worse. And I think Jack Fond does not want to do that. Yeah, exactly.

So it's just a really tricky situation. And Joe Harris isn't who he used to be defensively. He's still like an awesome shooter, you know, moving Royce and Joe and those guys to the bench after the trade deadline. Just like so suddenly I think, I don't know, kind of caught me off God personally in the way they've stuck to it. Like, I love that lineup that they start games with. They're just not enough, like, offensive punch. And there's just clearly not enough, like, a lot of trust on either end when you watch them play. And that's totally understandable.

But it's also necessary when you don't have, like, a clear all-star who's, like, the center of everything that you do. So I can't pick them. I'm sorry. I really want to because I love them and I love what they stand for and what they are right now. I love all their like individual pieces. But like I'll just say real quick like Quinn Snyder baby, Atlanta Hawks, let's go. You're in on this.

I'm all in. No, I'm not all in. I can't be all in. I can't be all in on the clippers and the hawks or I just like go calm the toast. But like I do think that that's something that I want to watch. And it's he only, he only coached one game so far. But even in that one game, you see the rotational changes that. I'd have defer from what Nate McMillan was doing, be it small example, but Try Young started the second quarter zero times until Quinn Snyder is the head coach. And all of a sudden, he's coming out of the game in the middle of the first quarter, starting the second quarter, running a bench unit.

DeJante Murray and DeAndre Hunter played the entire first quarter in the first game with Quinn Snyder against the Wizards. Like Jalen Johnson didn't play or something? Jaylen Johnson, out of the rotation, exactly. Like, there were a lot of games where Nate McMahon would play 10 guys in the first quarter. There's a lot of talented players on Atlanta, so you understand that. But after the game, Quinn-Snyder is like, I'm not,

it's really hard to do that. So like a nine-man rotation that's really solid going forward. I think would help this team. He played the starting five, like a lot more in that first game. Like, Collins, Capel, like stretching their minutes. I think that that is just kind of like, Starting 5 has been good. Yeah, it's just like a common sense adjustment for sure.

And something interesting, and we're going off literally a one-game sample size. But closing with Sadiq Bay over John Collins, I also thought it was like, interesting. I don't know if necessarily Nate McBillen would do that and kind of really value shooting and spacing at the end of a game. I don't know. Not saying John Kahn's is a bad shooter, but Sadiq Bay is a better spot-up three-point shooter. So con has been bad shooter this year. Yes, he has. So I got to go hawks over nets.

I agree with you in the heat. We don't have to spend too much time on them. Like, yeah, if they're in the play in, which they should be, maybe they're the six seed anyway. But if they're in the plan, yeah, if they're in the plan, yeah, I'm not like Jimmy Butler. Sorry. He's, what are we even talking about?

He's just going to take like 20 shots and get to the line 17 times and they'll win. That's just what it is. but let's close on one question, last question from you. Do you have another one, James? I think I only have one more. Awesome. Will the playoff Sixers be any different? I love it.

Like, there's some low-hanging fruit here. I feel like, you know, they're slow as hell. They don't need to be. The non-imede minutes is like the most obvious freaking thing in the NBA. Like, I kind of feel like, if there's a solution, maybe there's not. The solution is probably just, PJ Tucker is the backup five.

He is always the backup five. And that's it. And I, maybe just that, like foul a little less for starters. Like you guys foul a ton. The offensive rebounding, I don't know why that doesn't happen.

Like, this is a team that starts. Well, Doug Rivers is the head coach. He doesn't believe in offensive rebounding. But in a playoff series, if you have a matchup, you can exploit. Maybe you say, hey, PJ Talker, you're crashing every time. Hey, like, Joelle and Bede, like, try to make an impact on that end. Like, I know they are afraid of, like, transition defense being bad, like, which is also, I mean, that's been an issue for this team.

And it's been an issue for, like, past teams that some of these same players have been on and all of that. But I just, I wonder if the play. if the playoffs will bring out that, I mean, it's kind of like what I was getting at earlier. Like there's a version of this Sixers story where they kind of transform themselves and some of the weaknesses that have just been kind of there all years. Some of the stuff that has made them kind of frustrating is just like, all right, well, it's playoff time. So we're going to get serious. And then they disappear. And like, I don't know if that happens because I still think they just have some flaws that they can't really change with the roster, like, just some defensive stuff

when, like, Nying is on the court or when Hardin and Max are on the court together, all of that stuff that we've been talking about from the beginning of the year. But, I mean, they've just, they're such a powerful offensive team. They have been a good defensive team on the balance of the season, like, a really good one. And there's this low-hanging fruit that, like, I just, sometimes when I watch them, I just, I imagine myself believing in this team, because I don't know that I do. But I imagine myself believing in this team. And I'm like, well, If they just do X, Y, and Z, like, it could look a lot different. So maybe they should be in the, like, inner tier of championship contenders and all of that for that reason.

But I don't know. I kind of have them, like, just on the outside, like, a bunch of things would have to go right. Like, they're – I don't know if this idealized version of them will actually come out in the playoffs or not. That's what I'm asking you. When you say a bunch of things have to go right, like, the first thing that comes to mind for me is – matchups. And that is like,

it's just kind of hard for me to call a team inner circle contender when it's like, well, if you face the Celtics, you're not going to win. So you can't, so you can't be a contender, right?

Just like the matchup is so bad. They have never beaten the Celtics and beats never beaten the Celtics on a playoff series. And there's reason for that. And the, you know, I don't think that suddenly Jalen McDaniels is going to be the Jason Tatum stopper. Like, I don't know who's guarding Jalen Brown in that series. Like, I don't, it's just a lot of questions there.

And I think there's a lot to like right now with Philly. I wrote about Hardin this week. Hardin fascinates me. Shooting about 40% finally, or not finally, but like, for the first time in his career. It's above 40% on number seven attempts per game. He leaves the league in assists. And then there's all these,

there's all these really good things about his game. And the playmaking is just top tier elite. And some of the passes he makes on a nightly basis, like even in that loss against Dallas, just like, through a kick ahead to Embed that was just like, like 50 feet in the air, Tom Brady would be jealous.

Like it was so beautiful. So I love, I like love that. part of what he's doing, but like, I also want to see, okay, so when Embed's on the bench, like the other thing you were saying about Tucker at the five, which is really important, you got to, I think you have to stagger and bead and harden in the playoffs. And even though Maxi, like, went off last night in lineups by himself and has done that for the past couple games. I don't trust that in a playoff series personally. Like I would I need Embed and Hardin to be

split up and I need Hardin because when Hardin's on the court no matter what their offense is like really good. Yeah. And I need Hardin with Tucker at the five to like get buckets for me in those minutes when Embed's on the bench and that's how we're going to tread water and that's how we're going to survive. Like if we, you know, are shedding points on the other end, so be it. We probably would do that anyway regardless if Paul Reed was on the court or definitely if Montres-Harrell was on the court who played last night for some unknown reason. So yeah, I think that there's definitely some like regular season to post-season stylistic adjustments that are obvious and that will have to happen. But I just think that they're sealing.

I don't think it's like an indictment of Embed at all. I think he's like, he's just, he's amazing, he's unstoppable. It's just there's something about this team that I can't, and it might just be the competition. The competition just might be like that. Competition's really good. Yeah, I just like, that might be it. I do think the maxi thing he brought up is actually one of the other sort of

piece of low-hanging fruit, I think, is like, um, I, Darrell Mori, when he was on the Rice to Ricky Sanchez was talking about those maxi units without Joel. and Harden. He said one of the reasons they're doing that is, they know how good the guy is and they want to develop him, right? Like, that's part of the plan. It's like, let him be the primary guy for some portions of every game. They don't care about that in the playoffs. So in my mind, I'm like, I just kind of assume that that won't be happening anymore. I don't know if that'll be the case. Like, we've seen Doc play like five-man bench units in playoff games before, like in the past couple of years. So that could happen again. but I kind of think against the Celtics against the bucks. I don't anticipate that happening. Like that's usually a first round thing anyway.

So that's one of the things. I'm not that worried about it. Like I think they'll get the staggering part right. Like I at least have to hope that they will. The McDaniels thing, no, like I don't expect to be a Tatum stopper. But I do think one of the like subtle ways in which he might help is when Tucker is at the five. like McDaniels is a guy that like he is long enough and athletic enough that you know he can give him a little bit of like remember like Tucker at the five in in Houston it's like well he's he the five or is Covington the five because Covington is the guy that's blocking shots Tucker's a guy that's like defending post-up players and stuff like McDaniels kind of can function in a little bit of a similar way in that regard also just you know like another guy like they're just again like they're a frustratingly slow team maxi is fast McDaniels is fast he's athletic He can get them buckets in transition.

That's the sort of thing. Once the playoffs hit, I think traditionally you think about just the game slowing down because it becomes a possession game. I don't think it's quite that simple anymore. I think it's like possessions are more valuable. So you're looking for little edges anywhere you can. So one of the ways to try to change your game plan going into a playoff game or a playoff series or even just like the best teams, it's like, well, at this part of the second quarter, when we know or we anticipate the other team is going to have this lineup in,

we're going to put this lineup in, and we're going to play fast as hell, or we're going to crash the glass every time. Or, like, whatever it is, we're going to make their star player box this annoying guy out. And that's the sort of stuff that, like, you're probably not doing on a night-to-night basis during the regular season. But in the playoffs, it's like, hopefully, like, from the Sixers perspective,

they can find some transition points. Hopefully it can find some transition points. find some more second chance points. Hopefully these little areas where they're kind of bad, they can be neutral or good or take advantage of certain matchup situations. I don't know how many little advantages they have to poke at in a series against Boston, but I think a series of them against Milwaukee, like, that's interesting to me.

Like, that is something that I really think, like, there are, like, I feel better about them against the Bucks than I do them against the Celtics. that's just because the Celtics are better, obviously. I will say real quick, before we go, the Cleveland Cavaliers have the easiest schedule, softest schedule going forward. These Sixers have the second hardest schedule the rest of the season.

And there's a four-game cushion there that the Sixers have at the third seed. But like, that's just an interest. You know who's going to be the one seed? that's the problem yeah so that's like just an interesting little wrinkle there I wonder if there's going to be some

we'll see how close they are in the final few games of the season and who wants the four who wants the three that's just an interesting one especially if like the heat or the six C do you want to face the heat in round one if you're the sixers like I'm not

I'm sorry like I'm not just going to the Sixers against the heat in that matchup. I'm just not going to do it. Really? I mean, look, the playoffs are different. I'm sorry, like Jimmy Butler in the playoffs series is just not, they're just different. We saw what happened last year when those two teams went up against each other.

Okay, I think we covered pretty much everything perfectly. James, thank you so much for joining me on this special episode. We had a lot of fun. And do you want to tell the people where they can find you? That's just a common courtesy I'm giving to you as the host of the show. Sure. All my stuff is at cbsports.com in the NBA section, and I'm on Twitter at Outside the NBA.

Thanks, James. Thanks, everyone. We'll catch you later.