The Ringer NBA Show - The Biggest Questions After the Trade Deadline | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

Justin, Rob, and Wos get together to discuss some of the biggest questions we now now that the trade deadline is past. They discuss some of the more curious trades (3:40), who’s the most down bad (22:41), Jimmy Butler to GSW (40:41), Mark Williams to the Lakers (47:22), and more. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's popping, everybody? Logan Murdoch here from Real On the Ringer NBA show, and I want to invite you to pull up and kick it with Roger Bell, Howard Beck, and myself during All-Star weekend for our live podcast. We're going to be at the Stork Punchline Comedy Club in San Francisco on Saturday, February 15th at 2 p.m. pre-gaming all the all-star festivities, and you never know who might stop by. Get your tickets now by heading over to ringer.com backslash events. That's ringer.com backslash events. To see you there. In the group chat, I am Justin Varyer and joining me the luminaries of Trade Deadline podcasting.

That's right. Rob Mahoney, Bigwas. Gentlemen, thank you for joining me, just a lowly grommet of NBA podcasting here on Friday, the day after the trade deadline, the day after we typically record in order to go through all the action that happened Thursday in the days before. So thank you. I appreciate it. You're very welcome.

I wear many hats. This is nothing for me. I can do it all. I can show up with Bill Simmons. I could be here with my guys. If Joe Rogan called me and say, yo, we need some deadline talk. I'm ready. So it's nothing for me. Waswell podcast with literally anyone. Anybody. You know what, Justin, we're happy to be here with you. In part because, you know, we've been swapping takes. We've been swapping takes with people around the office. I have not heard a single morsel of a Justin Verrier trade deadline take yet. And not only do the people want it, I personally need it. I need to know what you think about your personal Super Bowl, the Ben Simmons buyout derby. This is where we live. This is what we need to be doing is figuring out where Ben Simmons is going to go,

and I need to know it from you. Listen, if you need someone to guard your second unit's best player once every 13 days, you call Ben Simmons, right? That's a helpful player to a lot of contenders. I'll say this. I've seen reports that he might go to Cleveland. He might go to some other contenders. I would be looking at Denver right now and seeing what Yokic did for Russell Westbrook.

Unfortunately, they can't, I think, because they're in the second apron. But, like, man, that would have been perfect. I would have loved to see him breathe new life into one of our favorite players in the NBA. Justin, you know how I feel about Nicola Yokic. Yeah. Even he couldn't save that boy. Oh, that's me. There are limits to the powers of Nicole Yokic, the god.

I worship at his ulcer. I'm not bringing this human sacrifice to him. Even he can't do it. You say that. Simmons is going to play 10 minutes of a second round playoff game, and he's going to turn that game. You'd be like, whoa. No, he's not.

There's going to be the Ben Simmons game, you think? I think there's going to be a Ben Simmons game. I could feel it in my bones. just like I feel very strongly about things that have happened over the course of this trade deadline. I have down for you guys five questions, which I have finally manicuredly crafted as I had all yesterday to prepare for them. This is already off the rails. We always start at the top here with the dog shit of yesterday because there was a couple things that flew around that I just frankly, I'm still struggling to figure out.

First question, who wins the team of fame Mazgolf Memorial, most curious move of the day? So we're looking at the most perplexing move. Who did the thing that we're still trying to figure out here, what, 24 hours later? I have three choices on the board. You could bring your own if you want to. A, Memphis dumping Marcus Smart for Capspace. B, Toronto trading for Brandon Ingram,

dealing another first round pick at the deadline to get a guy who's an impending free agent this offseason, or see Milwaukee getting Kyle Kuzma and only Kyle Kuzma. Rob, where do you stand? I think it's Kyle Kuzma for me. My feelings about Kyle Kuzma are well articulated at this point. Here's the problem. Memphis, while I don't understand it for a team that has genuine aspirations and credibility to contend now, they are a winning team.

They could win the Western Conference this year that is in play for them. They have chosen to go with some financial flexibility, but it's financial flexibility, it seems, with the intention of renegotiating and extending Jaron Jackson Jr.'s contract. Who could blame them for such a thing? Jaron Jackson Jr. is a great player.

The Milwaukee Bucks, on the other hand, made a move for a player who I don't particularly like as a fit for them all that much or like all that much in general, and one that appears to be a cost-cutting move on face to get them under the apron so then they could potentially make another move. But as you said, Justin, only Kyle Kuzma is sort of the problem here. If they had gotten Kyle Kuzma and used their newfound flexibility to bring in another player, I may be more sympathetic to this situation.

But Waz, as the foremost Kuz defender, not just at the company, not just on this podcast, but maybe in the world. Can you please explain to me how this makes sense for the box? First of all, they got Kevin Porter Jr., too. So that was another move. Like I said, nothing. that has another move that they make the Kuzman thing is really easy to understand.

He can play the three or the four next to both Janice and Brooke Lopez. He's a transition guy. He is one of the best cutters in the league. He proved that when he was playing with people that would actually pass him the ball, i.e. back in 2020, I get it. It was five years ago. But he made himself into.

a cutter. He made himself into a rebounder. He made himself into somebody who could guard multiple positions. He's not going to lock people down. He's not going to be a men Thompson tomorrow. Okay. But he's going to be credible whenever they put him in a spot. He's not going to kill them. And Milwaukee has had nothing, if not, a bunch of players who kill them situationally. Yeah. And Chris Middleton was to borrow the frame. from producers A, a cone. The man could not move. He couldn't guard my grandmother and she's dead.

Okay? He sucked. Kyle Kuzma is an improvement on that in terms of defensively. And offensively, I get it. He's shooting 27%. He was taking pull-up 30-footers over there. Guess what he's not going to do in Milwaukee? Dribble, dribble up the court, not past anybody and take a pull-up.

That's not what he's there to do. I agree. He's going to take spot-up jumpers. He's going to attack close-outs. He's going to be able to dribble, like, be a little bit of an offensive hub when needed. Mind you, this is a guy who averaged 20 points a game in this league before. Okay? He's not some scrub.

I get it. He was in NBA Siberia the last five years. And it's easy to write him off as he's a loser. He's a losing player. bro, he was a key ingredient to what they did on that championship team, guys. He will plug in holes where needed. That's what he's there to do. He's not there to be Chris Middleton part two.

No. Yeah, I kind of agree with both of you guys. I think there's some version in the middle where Kuzma is just an upgrade over Middleton because he could be more consistent than Middleton was given. Milton was like fine every couple of games with a game I saw him live. He literally could not keep himself from following because his body just wouldn't move in the way that an NBA player could. Kuzna gives them some sort of athletic pop that they need.

And to Waz's point, yeah, he has had an awful season, but the Wizards have been so dreadful that Jonas Valchunis got traded late Wednesday night. He played a game last night in Portland 24 hours later, less than 24 hours later, not just showed up at the game. He was playing bench minutes for that team. And so we have to factor that in here. But I also agree with Rob where it's like if this was the setup move to do something else, to have Kuzma as your fourth or fifth best player as opposed to what is now third,

I think that's where the problem starts. I agree with you. I think that's the issue right now. Where I do see him as an upgrade and maybe let's just take the Chris Middleton out of it for a second. They didn't have like healthy Chris Middleton to begin with this year. Maybe that's not a relevant comparison point. Where I am sympathetic to your cause was, is not as a Chris Middleton. placement, but what happens when you replace some of the Andre Jackson, Ryan Rollins minutes

with Kyle Kuzma, a player who is not the defender that those guys are or even the effort player that those guys are all the time, but has a more well-rounded game. And I think most importantly, percentages be damned will be guarded more credibly than some of the Bucks supporting cast will be. And so he's not their best perimeter defender. And if anything, I think you can point at the bucks and say, why did you not get a very, very high level point of attack defender? Was that completely outside the realm of possibility, and maybe it was. But they have ended up in this middle ground

with a guy who is pretty versatile in all the ways you outlined was, a good transition player, a guy who can take the ball and go, who can make things happen potentially from the weak side, isn't great at anything. And maybe that's enough

to sort of work as the ballast of this Bucks team. I just look at Milwaukee's roster and I say that team needs more than ballast. They need pronounced defensive strength in particular. And Kyle Kuzma is not that. They were supposed to get that with Chris Middleton's corpse of a contract? How do you make that happen with Chris Middleton?

How do you convince a team that, oh, no, no, no. He's a veteran locker room presence, but he's not going to do anything on the court. And by the way, he ain't cheap. I think they bought low on Kuzma. And I'm sorry, y'all, like this idea that Kyle Kuzma's not a high effort player on the Wizards. Like, we talk about this all the time.

When you have... It's not just on the Wizards, it's five years. Like, even if he, even if he has a switch to flip. The Wizards were good at some point and I missed it. Actually, they were fine at some points. But I'm saying this is now a long run of established habits. Even if you think he has a switch to flip, that generator is going to need time to turn on. Let me ask you something, Mahoney.

Let's say we traded you somehow to the National Enquirer. You're trading me to the inquirer? Okay. Well, we traded you to TMZ. Or we traded you, God forbid, the Breitbart for five years. Okay. Okay. Wow.

And you came back to us. Yep. Or you came back to, I don't know, what's a reputable media organization. You went to ESPN. You started writing for The Athletic. You spent five years at Breitbart. Yep. Or you spent five years at the Enquirer.

You spent five years with. with Harvey Levinson, and then you went back to a credible organization. Your pen not going to work no more, Rob? I think this is where me and Coos diverge in the wood, is that he has been given chances to go to credible organizations and said, now I'm good. This is what it is. He didn't want to go to Dallas.

I think he would have to prove himself. If we're talking about Rob, if he did five years at Breitbart, there would be a lot he would need to show, but he would get a chance. I agree. But this is the thing. I agree with you, the Chris Middleton contract at this stage, given what Chris has shown. the season is

hard to move for a meaningfully better player than Kyle Kusma. But if you were going to move it, you would have to do it on the pretense of somebody

who has a little bit less to prove in this way, who has a little bit lower of a burden of proof in terms of how good they need to be on both sides of the ball, how much they fit. I want to be at the point

where I'm talking myself into a player who conceptually could make a lot of sense for the bucks. And I just personally don't think Kyle Kuzma is that player. I will say the business aspect of it for the Bucks doesn't bear well for Kuzma.

It doesn't really give him a stamp of credibility that the Bucks gave up. A.J. Johnson, their most recent number 23 pick, who everybody labeled as a reach at the time, plus a 2018 swap in order to go get him. But I don't think he's actually the worst move on the board here of these three choices. I don't think it's the worst business on the board here. I think that's actually Memphis dumping mark is smart. So in total, they spend three first plus Tice Jones for 39 games of smart. And even if you say like, oh, it's to help out Jaron Jackson Jr., who, by the way, is someone I flagged as I was going through to 2026 free agents because that's when Luca could come up and that's where Luca could presumably get a teammate into the Lakers.

I was like, oh, there's a lot of old guys, but Jaron Jackson, huh, makes a lot of sense. So maybe that was a move to counteract what just happened with the Lakers. talk about that a little bit later. But to do that now and just kind of get rid of another useful rotation player in Jake La Ravia, can you have done that in the offseason at worse? I just don't get that. Yeah. I mean, Marcus Smart definitely, he's just been a theoretical piece. He just has not played since they traded for him. He cannot stay on the court. And, you know, as Bill mentioned yesterday, it feels like Boston guys kind of knew that physically he was breaking down. And that's why they were okay parting ways with somebody who was a freaking staple of

this era. Obviously, Chris Staps has been such a beautiful addition and changed the way that they play forever. But getting rid of Marcus Smart obviously didn't come lightly. And the fact that he just, this dude has not played in two years. cannot play, can't get on the court. It's tough. And he's owed $21 million guaranteed next season.

Yeah, I would get it if they had a move after the fact. I have to almost wonder if they were in the mix for some bigger move and were using him as salary flotsam and then the music just stopped because we had reports that they were in on Jimmy or at least sniffing around there. And then Bob Myers let it fly on the DeHiss accidentally that they were in the Devin Durant mix or at the very least we're sniffing around him. So maybe they were just like trying to do stuff. They had to just get him off because he would have known about it

and wouldn't have been an issue. But that's one I just, I don't get. And then we could talk about Toronto, who once again seems like they're playing a different game out there. I think my question with them is, do they know something about the value or the lack of? No, I was going to say a first round picks because they keep jumping the gun in order to get guys in.

there a year before their free agency. And so maybe they're just looking at that as like a market inefficiency where like RJ Barrett and quickly are very good players. And these guys just don't want to pay them because of the way like the cap math works. Well, I'll just get them in there. I have cap. And I'll just utilize these good players and make them better. Maybe that's what they're thinking with Ingram.

But the way that these things all kind of come together doesn't really coalesce into a better than average team, I would think. Yeah, I don't have a problem with a team in the Raptor's position making. what they see as asset plays, right? Like Brandon Ingram's value is incredibly low right now. The idea of getting a player who can do all the things that he does at the cost that they paid, which we should say, two players who were not going to be a part of their long-term plans

and a first-round pick that is not going to be that great. Not an unreasonable price to pay on its face for a player like Ingram. The problem that I have with it is if you do make these sorts of asset plays, you want players who, because of your style and your roster, could pop either so that you can keep it. them on good value contracts going forward or you can trade them. And the rest of the league will think that that player is really good or really valuable. We have a lot of empirical evidence that says most of the league is not super interested in trading

for Brandon Ingram. And I don't suspect that's going to change if you're paying him $40 million a year. You don't think Scotty Barnes and Ingram or the new Tatum and Brown? You're not getting that feeling that they're recreating the magic in Boston. I think the only only only... way this makes sense they think they can get branding ingram on a respectable deal, perhaps like a three-year player option after two kind of deal. Maybe you even pay him 35, close to 40 million throughout the duration of the contract.

But it's not because you're going to give him the contract that he's been angling for for two years that nobody wanted to pay. Nobody. The guys went on the block for two years. Yeah, there's no competition out there. No one has money except for the Brooklyn Nets. It doesn't seem like they would want to get into the Brandon Ingram business. So there is a logic to that.

This isn't Seacom where the Pacers had to give him a max because he could have gone elsewhere. You already gave up all of this stuff. Raptors didn't give up a lot. And if they let him go, it would be bad, but it wouldn't be like a catastrophe. I just don't think, I don't see how it all fits together, though. So are we envisioning Ingram being your prime? primary ball handler. What does that mean for Barrett who likes the ball in his hands? What does that mean for quickly? These guys all aren't ball dominant in the way that like a Hardin would be, but at the very

least, these are guys that like to be on the ball. And so yeah, I don't get it. Brandon Ingram is kind of proven over and over again that he's not a playoff of people player. He doesn't. He needs the ball. He needs to sort of probe. He needs multiple possessions to establish like how he thinks he's going to attack. He's not going to shoot any threes. He's not going to pull up. He's not going to guard anybody. I mean, this guy has like a 7-3 wingspan.

He has decent enough feet. He should be one of the better defenders at his position in the NBA. He's been the opposite. He's one of the worst defenders at his position. And all of that so he can snake around picks and take long two. I used to have a little Ingram cape because I thought like the tools would one day come to fruition with the right coach, the right team.

The tools would coalesce into a guy that like had. Every now and again he's flashing, you know, playmaking and pick and roll. Every now and again, it's like, oh, the jumper is like pretty smooth. Every now and again, he's flashing all these different things, but it's never coalesced. He thinks of himself as, you know, give me the ballroom. let me cook kind of player. And if Brandon Ingram

is cooking that meal, I do not want to eat there. Nor do I. And I think the overarching problem here is he gets in the way of what the best things that the Raptors have going. And so, yeah, a best case scenario for Ingram is one in which he dramatically reinvents himself.

A more realistic version is one where he continues to play pretty well within the context of how Brandon Ingram plays and it just doesn't really do a lot for you. It doesn't take you anywhere meaningful. I keep coming back to this place with Ingham. He's been in the NBA almost a decade now. He's had two winning seasons in his entire career.

There are circumstantial factors that are so far beyond his control, the early Lakers being what they were, Zion Williamson getting hurt, all those things are true. There's also the parts of Brandon Ingram's game that are not malleable, that do not accommodate others, that do not fit in the context of trying to facilitate Scotty Barnes's development. finding places for RJ Barrett off the ball.

RJ and Scotty and quickly, to their credit, have give to their games in ways that can make some of that stuff makes sense. The team doesn't have quite enough yet, but you're starting to see the overall roster put itself together in a way that could work, even when some guys have been out of the lineup. Ingram complicates all that,

and he gives you talent, but talent isn't enough when it becomes at the expense of the guys you already have. He'd have to become a great screener, a great cutter, a willing catch and shoot person he'd have to be willing

to get off of the ball a ball mover has Brandon Ingram ever done that he'd have to be Kyle Coosma you're saying to Ingram's credit he has been taking

more threes in the few games that he played this season I think he's up to around seven and the Raptors have unearthed something in RJ Barrett

that we didn't really see in New York quickly is kind of a TBD but I think Rob's right that there is like a version where this may be coalesce but you're hoping for veteran players who are going to be on big salaries who didn't necessarily pick Toronto

actively like doing the hard stuff. Someone he's going to have to do the hard stuff other than Scottie Barnes on this team or Jakub Pertl who God bless him is just doing all of the hard stuff. And the other part of this is like you kind of screw up your tank here. Ingram has been hurt for a little while here. I don't know if he's been hurt or if he's been hurt. But if they're better over the back end of this season is like just screws up the one chance you have at a plum draft pick. And so very perplexing, I would say. I would say if we're answering this question, I would still go with Memphis. But man, I just, it seems like Toronto is trying something that's like light years ahead, but I just don't get how it adds up to a winning contender in the immediate.

So we'll see on that one. Toronto is doing things where their GM can't get fired. Well, sounds like that's how they operate. Might have to do these things or he will get fired. I don't know. There were some wild stories about like his relationship with Sportsnet people and the people taking over that team there. So we'll see. Speaking of down bad, number two, who's the down baddest as a result of this trade deadline? A, Kevin Durant, who was in nine different rumors and basically had to tell the warriors not to bring him back. B, Trey Young, who his future is according to Chris Haynes, becoming murky. C, Chris Middleton and Marcus Smart, who were in one of the best graphics I've ever seen in the photoshopped Washington Wizards jerseys just teaming up and like, these are the new duo of the Wizards. Or D, me for having to sit out yesterday's trade deadline and come up with his dog.

Well, we already know the answer is D. You've been crashing out pretty hard. Yeah, that's right. Who's number two then? it's hard to not pick people going to the Wizards. Okay. Like Chris Middleton, here's the thing. One thing we have not talked about enough with the Chris Middleton trade, we've discussed in and out what he's been this season.

We probably haven't talked enough about this is the end of a sort of era of Milwaukee Bucks basketball and one of the longest tenured on-court relationships in the sport. He had something really special with Yannis that culminated in a championship. And I will say part of what makes this so agonizing is they never, really got a chance to defend it without one of them being hurt. They never really had any moment since they won the title a real run where both Janus and Middleton were on the floor healthy operating together. And so to see it go down like this and Chris Middleton, a guy who's had a great career who

established this amazing on-court rapport with Janus, who to this day is probably the best playmaker in terms of chemistry that Janus has ever had. Now is a Washington wizard and gets to babysit. if he wants to play. And I suspect he does want to play, but work his way back and try to prove his value for a context that,

as was so eloquently laid out, is not where anyone wants to play. Anyone wants to be a part of. I want to see Chris Middleton, your boy, become just a consummate winning type of player in Washington. He better turn himself into a hustle monster.

He better turn himself into the coach's pet. Because in Washington, apparently everybody should want to and be able to do that. because the setting, it allows for everybody to become obviously winning type of players. And I better see Chris Middleton step up to the plate and become just the consummate professional, the veteran in the locker room, the sage. He better become that because Washington apparently is just,

you just wake up in the morning in Washington and want to become goddamn Judge Bushler. If you think Chris Middleton is not going to be a consummate pro going to the Wizards, I got bad news for you. Like he's going to show up. He's going to do his job. He's probably going to be a more welcome presence on that team than Kyle Kuzma is or has ever been. If we're all being honest about it. I'm not worried about that part.

Chris Middleton, not very accepting of a role when he was in Milwaukee as he became a more diminished player. That's a thing. That's a thing. He was not, he did not embrace his new reality in Milwaukee with just open arms. Of course. And I understand he, like, in 2021, When these guys did generate quality offense in crunch time, it's because Chris Middleton was driving it.

It's not because Janice got the ball isolated and made magic happen. It's because Chris Middleton was doing stuff. And I have ultimate respect for what he provided for the team. It's just like he is just such a diminished version of himself. And I don't know, like, is Bilal Kula Bale? He's going to love Chris Middleton now? Let's hope so. He might.

Because apparently that guy's got a pin. The thrill of competition will just just lift his spirits. By the way, speaking of Janus, did you see the tweet and then delete of a tweet where it was like a red circle, white circle and then like the thinky emoji? He did this in the midst of the trade deadline like soon after Middleton got traded. What does that mean? Did the producers of your live podcast not send that one your way? No. No.

Okay. They didn't send that tweet. I was plugged in to this. If you were a good teammate, you'd be sending it to us. Is that like a Scantron? Like, what, what's the implication? I think it was like red white. It was like, should I go to the Rockets or another team with those colors sort of things?

Really? Tweet and then a delete. I'm just saying, I'm just throwing it out there. Yonis tweeted that. Should I go to the Rockets? I don't know. We'll see. I'm just throwing out possibilities because another guy who's kind of in the same.

mixed there, Kevin Durant, who would be my answer to this question, has to be feeling 30 different types of ways here because on the one hand, the team sucks and they have been playing awful of late. And then they try to get Jimmy to save the sinking ship. They can't do that because the guy that they also brought in in order to help save the sinking ship is blocking every trade because nobody wants his contract. And then he's getting thrown into trade. I don't know what happened where Kevin Durant went from let's bring this guy in to let's get rid of Kevin Durant. Like maybe he

was just being a dick behind the scenes but I can't imagine this rest of the season is going to go well and I have to imagine by the off season he's to blank or someone else. My phone is telling me that is February 7th, 2012 24.

That means that means I've been 25, excuse me, sorry. That makes it even worse. That means I've been potted with Justavarian for in four years. And this man is somehow surprised that a situation that

KD is a part of has fallen apart. You're really on one today, man. You brought it, and I appreciate it. This 38-year-old Waz is just on another level. Grizzles. I'm seasoned. How could you be surprised? That's true. I log on the ESPN.com yesterday.

Slash NBA. I'm on the slash NBA. That's right. I'm on the side scroll. I'm on a side scroll. It says report. The situation in Phoenix has turned toxic. Where have I heard that before?

When K.D. was on a team on a 66 win pace and they're in freaking huddles during games. And he's grabbing the net while his team huddles to try to figure out how to win a game. That's his last year in Golden State. He gets to Brooklyn. Do we need to talk about what happened in Brooklyn? Where people... We're on his magic carpet ride, right? Where the guy who he chose as his co-star

became a damn near eugenesis. Okay? This is KD we're talking about. Where James Hardin had to be the guy, the adult in the room was like, I'll give Kyrie to jab my goddamn self. How the hell is our second best player not committed and pot committed?

admitted over something like, Katie presided over that, okay? Didn't lift a finger to help or fix anything. Now he's in Phoenix. The situation has become toxic. Can't believe that. Can't believe the, Katie as your best player, your leader, your focal point, can't believe that went bad. I told you, I've been telling you all this.

Katie want to show up, take mid-range jumpers and go home. Yep. He don't want to do a single other thing. Here's my question about that was, you to me are the king of work-life balance. You have a very healthy separation between what is your problem and what is not your problem. And I would say Kevin Durant does too in a way. He is not a LeBron-level operator, fingers on the scales, wanting input and decisions. He's very much a, that is not my problem kind of superstar.

Rob, I can't believe you, I can't believe you just did that. Okay. So let's just say, right, behind the scenes. Yep. Varyer and Ben Cruz was having problems. You think I wouldn't intervene? I don't know. You really think I'd be like, it's not my job to make it so that Ben,

Cruz, and Varyer have a good work relationship? You think I would just, you think I would just kick my feet up and be like, hopefully that take care of itself. I would intervene. Waswood intervene. But Kevin Durand would not. Wise would. On this podcast,

Wise would interview. You're throwing me under the bus. I would intervene because I care about the results of what we're doing up here. If I thought something wasn't working in the way that it needs to work, I would lift a finger. That's not your boy. I'm going to show up. Take 18 footers. I'm going to go home and smoke hookah.

What a hookah going around the NBA these days. That's true. No kidding. I just, yeah, it's tough because I agree with Waz. And it hasn't matched Kevin Durant's motivations and how he's plotted out the back end of his career because he tried to do the LeBron thing without all of the like computing power and the necessary relationship building. And honestly, the sharp eye for picking the right teammates that LeBron has shown and perhaps shown. most recently with Luca Donchis. That seems like a marriage that he's quite fond of

that just shocked him that he was on his team at dinner one day. And now he's just talking about how much he can't wait to play with him and all this other stuff. But that's been Durant's problem. He's an amazing basketball player. I just don't think he gets the business side of things, but has tried to comport himself as if he does. And he's tried to wield his power,

tried to follow in LeBron footsteps. It just hasn't worked as well. Did you guys watch the trailer for Court of Gold? No, what is that? Is that the Olympic talk? Yes. The Team USA won. Yes.

Where KD says, yeah, I got to have all that chemistry, but how you going to guard stuff? It's a great quote, but it's an insight into the mind of KD. And underrating of this sort of cosmic stuff, this intangible stuff that, yeah, I get it. If you score 30 every night, I can, I've never been a 30 a night score. If I was one of the, I could probably see myself as somebody who thinks that's all that matters. I can't pretend that I know what it's like to be KD, but I think that's an insight into the mind of a certain type of basketball attitude. This idea that nothing else matters except for what you do on that court. And people could make all of the legium jokes and LeBron as like this sort of diva and blah, blah, blah, blah.

LeBron is organizing team dinners. LeBron is galvanizing a group, making them feel like they're part of a whole. Katie don't do that. Yeah. I do think being the best player on a team also means being the leader, and it just doesn't jive with a lot of different players.

LeBron has done both in spades. Honestly, it's a nice segue into Trey Young here, who finds himself in a weird situation. The Hawks didn't necessarily bottom out They just kind of like rejiggered the same types of players that they have. So they end up with Keros LaVert, Nyang, back in the bosom of Quinn Snyder. Terrence, Mann, Bones, Highland, some swaps, a bunch of seconds. So I don't know if they're necessarily worse, Rob, but I can't say that they're better

and they're different in ways that I think would suggest the young that they're probably not thinking about his timeline. Probably not. I think once Jalen Johnson got hurt, a lot changed for this Atlanta Hawks season. And it is, it's put it on the rails in a way that may surprise even us as maybe the foremost Jalen Johnson boosters.

But they haven't been good enough to really be competitive. They're still young enough that they have a really long time horizon around some of their most interesting young players. And that's what the future of the Hawks are going to be based on. My issue is like, the best way I can read, specifically the DeAndre Hunter portion of this deal, is that you are selling probably pretty high

on a player who has never been this good before. And you're trading him away when he's finally hitting his stride, finally hitting the peak of his efficiency, his scoring prowess, still a pretty, like at least relevant defender, not a stopper by any means, but a guy who can be in the mix. And you're trading him at the peak of his value.

That's great. But if you're doing that, why are you trading Bogdan Bogdanovich at the lowest point of his value when he's having a terrible season? And so there is a value proposition happening with these two deals in conjunction that I don't understand. Like what is the urgency in Atlanta to clear the decks when nothing that you're bringing in is in itself super compelling that would make you trade Bogdan Bogdanovich or DeAndre Hunter? And so you've just artificially created this pressure, I guess, to trade away two of your better players for, no real benefit or reason at all when you don't even have control of your first round pick. At the same time, like, why should the Hawks be operating as if they need to appease Tray Young?

Because he once beat Julius Randall led Knicks and ended Ben Simmons' career. Like, I don't know why that warrants some level of devotion by a franchise. Like, Trey Young, sorry, like, you're just another guy here. Yes, you're our highest paid guy, you're our best guy, but like, why do we need to cowtow towards maximizing the Tray Young prime? I agree. I'm sorry, they made a big deal in bringing baby boy Murray up there. That was an all-in on Tray Young move.

It didn't work out in any sense of the word. Probably was the wrong move, but like they've done that already. think they should be moving in the direction of doing something different. And if Trey Young doesn't like it, then tough shit, bro. Like, could you imagine a world with somebody who's like, Demi and Sonus doesn't like it? The king shouldn't do it. Like, what?

Yeah, you're our best player, but who cares? Like, why should we gear everything we're doing towards your likes or dislikes? I think Trey Young, like, yeah. But I like the player that he was this season, or he's been, excuse me, this season, I think it shows a willingness to be adaptable to a situation that I think will serve him in his next destination because maybe I'm crazy. I don't think Trey Young's going to retire as a hawk. At the same time, I don't know why the hawks should be operating as if, like, we got the,

I get it. Y'all traded him for Luca Donches, but. he's not a franchise player guys. And there's no reason to pretend that he is. Yeah, I just assumed when they made the Hunter deal that they were just collecting assets to kind of supplement what they lost in the Murray trade because they are out their next three picks.

They have a swap in the middle there. So they will have one of those picks, but basically the spurs control their next three drafts. And so I was like, oh, they're just, they're doing the right thing and getting assets back rather than playing for a worse pick just despite the spurs.

And I was like, oh, that makes some sense. But then they made the bogey trade, who as Rob mentioned, has been playing well. So, okay, I thought that was a money dump. But then they took back Terrence Mann, who I think makes about the same for longer. And so it just complicated things.

So maybe they just see something in Terrence, man. But then, like, he plays pretty similar to Dyson Daniels. But I don't know. That's very complimentary to Terrence Man. Yeah, not as good, but certainly in the mold, I would say. They don't see something to Terrance, man. I think we've seen all we're ever going to see out of Terrence. Like, he is the player who he is.

He never clicked. He never took off. And I like him. And I was actually in the building for that Utah game in the playoffs where he just could not miss a three. And he is a dynamite locker room guy. Nobody who's ever been around Terrence, man, has a single bad thing to say.

I think he's the kind of guy like, I think any team should want Terrence man there. And I think he would earn minutes on pretty much any team in the league. But, like, they're not taking like a flyer like, oh, this might take off. No. He's just a guy. He's just a guy. Which is perfectly fine.

He's a man. He is the man. Law is invoking Sabonis in this inspired me to bring forth another down bad nominee, Justin. I don't know if you guys have seen the latest from Malik Monk, who, if you may remember, took a pay cut to go play with his. his pal Dieran Fox in Sacramento, apparently didn't get a lot of courtesy from Dier and Fox on his way out as far as, like,

what was happening, the fact that you're just going to bolt in the night on this thing, understandably a bit soured by the experience. I just have to say, Malik Munk, a player we love, a presence who we appreciate in the NBA, that just kind of sucks.

It really does suck. He has gotten to dribble more. Like, he does more on that team and his bigger part of that team now, probably as a result of Fox going away, but yeah, he also got locked up by the mighty Portland Trailblazers winners of 10 of the past 11, just enough way I. Sure. Since we're talking around the West, why don't we when we talk about the Jimmy Butler trade, which we haven't had a chance to get into here.

Number three I have on the docket is does Jimmy Butler really change the Western playoff pictures? Because from my side of things, I love the deal. I love it in part because they didn't give up a ton in order to get Jimmy. I think Wiggins has been good for them and has been stable for them in ways that I think go unappreciated. Jimmy is obviously a better version of that when he is locked in. And I think the fact that he's only played five games since December 20th probably helps keep the Jimmy you need on ice for long enough to make this next little run into the playoff.

So I like it. But then they also have the powder to go make something else happen in the off season because right now what we'll see is like Jimmy passing off to Steph, the defense collapsed and him passing it off to quit and post in the corner just for the game winning three. And I just don't like that. So my perspective is I don't necessarily take. thinks this changed as much for Golden State. If anything, I'm not necessarily even projecting them

into the playing race. Where do you guys stand on both the Warriors and just like the entire bottom of the West here? So you don't think it'll change the play in race at all? With the Warriors. I don't necessarily think the Warriors. You don't think Jimmy Butler's going to make a difference?

I think he'll make some difference but not enough to get them in. Let me ask you something. Pose it a different way. Do you think 2023 was a fluke? or do you think Jimmy Butler's that good? That's what, to me, that's the ultimate question of the Jimmy trade. Do you think that was bullshit or do you think that's who this guy is?

I think it's who he is, but I think it's lost the time that he was hurt practically from the second round on. And he wasn't the same player after the fact. So I think he could hit those heights. I don't know how often he could hit those heights again. And the Warriors need to be nails for 30 straight games here because they're one game under 500. they're currently tied for 10th with the Kings. They're in the 11th technically just because it's highbreakers. So they have a lot of work to do.

They basically have to play, what, like 600 ball rest of the way? Maybe at worse? I think Jimmy Butler has been underrated. He's been under in terms of like people's perception of the level of flair that he is his whole career. And I think it's happening again. And I think, again, it's easy, or it's probably right, to look at the last three months in Miami and be like, like, that guy who we've seen on the floor is not going to change your life. I just happen to think that like Jimmy Butler motivated playing with Steph Curry, I think it's just a new equation, man. And I can't wait to see what they put on the floor.

And I understand why people, you know, people who I respect can be down on this deal because the fit is not seamless. Like, it's an awkward fit when you think about him and Draymond on the floor. But in 2023, when, you know, Duncan Robinson learned how to dribble and they were doing all of this off ball stuff, Golden State. stuff, leveraging three point line action, right? Like, you have to worry about what's happening out on the perimeter. And then when you're not super consumed by that, Jimmy Butler is killing you in the paint. He is getting to the line.

He's getting buckets at the cup. Like, he's killing you. I think that can very easily be repeated. I think Draymond has perfected the non-entity aspect. offensively of his game in the sense that he's always a threat to screen for Steph. Yeah, the handoff stuff is always a problem, right?

He's always making himself useful in terms of springing Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler operating around the edges of what Steph brings to the table. I just think people are, let's just say Jimmy Butler's 85% of the guy from 2023.

That is a killer. And that's a different. difference maker and I think the Warriors, man, I think the Warriors made a killer deal. It's better than Andrew Wiggins too, which is the most meaningful comparison here. I think this does not change anything really in terms

of the title race, right? The Warriors are so far back in the standings and just in quality, like, qualitative value of what they put on the floor. I don't think Jimmy Butler is really going to change who wins the NBA title, but it changes two things that I think are important. One, the playing race is

getting very feisty, very competitive. And even a Steph Curry team is not going to walk into it as evidenced by the fact that as we're recording, Golden State is basically tied for 10th, right on the edge of not even making the play in to begin with. So getting

any kind of momentum, any kind of help to edge out the kings or the sons or the Mavs or the Clippers or the spurs right behind them or Justin's Blazers who are storming up the ranks. Any of that is helpful. So that kind of moving the needle is helpful. And

maybe most importantly of all, you have made Steph Curry's job easier and you've done him an actual service by getting a player of value when you've been sitting on your hands for now effectively years and not doing that. So making a Steph Curry team better at this stage in his career and making the Warriors

even more competitive team, even if it's not going to guarantee them a playoff spot, that's a swing you should take. Even if Jimmy Butler does come with his questions, even if the fit stuff has to be navigated exactly as you said was, not just with Draymond and Jimmy, but like Jonathan Cuminga's going to be in that mix too as far as like how do you play this combination of guys

together and in what alignments. Steve Kerr's going to have his hands full with that kind of thing, but you absolutely take this kind of opportunity when it's presented to you, particularly at this price. Yeah, I think you owed it to Steph to do something. And if you're only just making him happy, if you're lifting his spirits for a couple weeks here, that's good enough. Because like I said, they just didn't go out and do the follow up, Nikola Vucevich, let's just make a go of this right now.

that wasn't going to happen this year. At best, they're probably going to make the first round of the playoffs. The West's top half is good enough that like maybe they'll be competitive. Maybe they'll be sprightly, but that's probably it. And so I like what they did. I don't know if it means much for this season, but going forward, I feel better about them. We're already talking about the West. So let's go to my next question here, which is about the Los Angeles Lakers. I don't know if you guys have talked about them at all this week. Here's my thing. The Mark Williams move has been really interesting. I find it a little curious in some aspects. I'm wondering, as I have down here, did the Lakers fumble the follow-up move? Because on the one hand, while I like Williams, big target, I've watched too many Hornets games to not, like, feel good about this guy, like good hands, good offensive player. But I think as well, has been well documented at this point, not a great defensive player, not just a plug-in play guy.

He's 23 years old, has played only 85 games, in part because he's had some pretty significant injuries when he played 40% of his games because of a back injury and then a foot. And the Hornets gave that guy up. And so, I'm kind of wondering, like, I see it. Luca needs a lob target. But I almost wonder if they kind of shot themselves on the foot because that was their major bullet to add something before Luca hits free agency two years from now. I think it's definitely weird that Charlotte gave this guy up after he played the best ball of

his life for them. They were just like, yeah, sign me up for the Lakers' 20, 30, 31 pick. Get this guy out of here. And Lake of fans, Dalton Connect is not a person. Nobody around the league cares about Don't Connect. Nobody was like, oh, we rarely are dying to get our hands on this prospect. I want to say, Dalton Connect, if you're listening, you are a person. And I acknowledge your personhood, Dolphin Connect.

You, Don. This is about the pick that they gave up, right? And Charlotte being willing to move off of this guy after having them in their building for three years or going on three years, I think speaks something. Like, it says something about this deal. For me, if he can become a good defensive player, not great, but good at defense, then all of this was worth it.

but if he stays the defender that he's been, I just don't think you need offense first players when you have Luca Donchich. That's what we've learned. When you got Luca, surround him with dogs on defense, Kyrie to spell him, which I don't even think is necessary.

I think the Kyrie thing ended up working out, but I don't think it's actually necessary that you have a Kyrie level playmaker. But like surrounding him with dogs that are going to do. defend. Luca is going to make them into better offensive players

than they otherwise would be. I think Mark Williams is the other direction in that and I don't see why you would go more offense than defense to pair with Luca long term. I think it is because of that defensive potential that we're sort of

circling around, this idea that as Mark Williams gets healthy. He's huge. He's huge. He's mobile. He's such a vertical presence on offense. You could see how that might translate

if he can get his timing down with the verticality. He just needs actual time on an NBA court and he has not had a lot. lot of it yet. And so putting him out there, not just with Luca, but with guys like LeBron, you know, like with a coaching staff that can nurture him a little bit. And most importantly, in a competitive environment in which good defense is going to be asked of him, I think can facilitate

that sort of development. But there's no way around the fact that the Lakers invested the most prominent trade chips they had as far as not breaking up core parts of their team. We're going to have an Austin Reeves conversation at many points, I imagine, over the next couple years as to whether, you know, the Lakers could use this or that instead of a player like Austin Reeves, who is quite good offensively and can give Luca some relief not in a Kyrie way, but in some

kind of way. I think where I would disagree with you a little bit was is the Mavs tried the surround Luca with dog strategy absent a player like Kyrie, and it's good. But you run hard, when you run into the wall, you run hard into the wall. And so you do want

playmaking, but Mark Williams is not providing you playmaking. He is just the lob threat, just the finisher, just the potential rebounder. Jayla Brunson would have been a good enough playmaker without Carried. I'm just saying. Jalen Bruns, you know, can you imagine if a team had both Jalen Brunson and Luca Dantius? Just crazy. And Porzingis?

I know. That would have been nuts. I can't believe. That would be a sick-ass team. I know, I know. Well, I think it's the Williams move is fascinating for a lot of reasons. But I also think it indicates probably what the Lakers are thinking long term with Luca. I think it's one of two things.

They either think they need to convince him. him to stay. And there are quotes both from Polinka directly, but also from David Miniman, just based on conversations before that, that they talked to Luca and he was like, I would love to play with a lob threat. That would be nice for me. And then

Blanca goes out, gets them one within like a day or two at that point. So that seems curious. Yeah, the parentheses there are not Jackson Hayes. Exactly. The other part of this is that maybe they think that they're ready to win now. And recent

results without. Well, LeBron is playing like he's 27 years old at this point. He is like, he is completely moving. If we're talking about Jimmy Butler adding a pep into Steph step, like look at LeBron right now. Were you watching last night live when he made the three straight three-quarters? That's crazy.

Excuse me. I was watching Blazers Kings live in Portland. I was at the real, Super Bowl. The Valenciennes Bowl. I saw the game before that. Yeah. He is loving things. And they also, I will mention, have a nice little cushion. because they played so well before they made this blockbuster trade.

Like they're two and a half games up on the wolves who are in sixth. They're up right now four and a half games on the Dallas Mavericks just because the Mabbs had to play through so many injuries, including with Luca before all this happened. And so I don't know. I'm mixed on the Lakers. I think they can be awesome offensively. And the fact that like they are so good there and have this cushion,

they'll get to the playoffs and Luke and LeBron can probably do anything. on the other hand, like, there's still a lot to figure out here on the fly. Defensively, they're going to be, I think, pretty dog shit. They do have to outgun teams. And so, I don't know. Yeah, what were you? His poor defensive outfit. They're going to be taping and piecing together the facade of an actual defense the entire

rest of the season. If you start LeBron, Luca, and Austin Reeves, that's just, and Mark Williams. the defender that he's been, not that he's going to be. Maybe he's going to turn into a bigger, better guy. But that he's been, those four guys, that does not a good defensive lineup make. However, on the other end,

good luck, trying to stop a motivated Luca Donchich, a rejuvenated LeBron James. They're like, they are going to be held on offenses. Defense is just looking, it's looking shaky at the moment. And I think it's okay with a team that's had this sort of dramatic reconstruction in the matter of a couple days to want to wait and see a little bit. And to be cautiously optimistic about what they could be this season, you're right, Justin, that they have some real inroads in the standings they could make to get as far as like third place in the West without a ton of heavy lifting. If any of this clicks into place, and frankly, probably just from getting Luca Donchich on the floor is going to give them a pretty decent shot to do that. I think defensively, they're going to have problems.

we're not going to look at this remaining stretch of regular season games and see an inspiring defensive performance. I would find that very unlikely. But in a playoff series, I think LeBron can still turn it up defensively. We have seen that Luca, when very motivated, can at least be fine. Is he going to straighten his calf in the process? He might.

He might strain his calf in the process, but I suspect he will be quite motivated to prove that he is not a poor defender. And we're going to see what Mark Williams has when he's surrounded by at least a more veteran group. We're going to see certainly what Dorian Finney Smith and Jared Vanderbilt and the guys who are going to be asked to do a ton of heavy lifting on defense can really shoulder because those are even for all of their defensive talents,

not ideal point of attack. And Tony Smith is 33 years old, y'all. He is indeed 33 years old. And he's like a good contributor to a team concept, but he is not a stopper. Is he 33? 31. He's 31. Let's get the fact check.

I believed it, though. Honestly. I do think it shines a light on some of the moves that the Lakers had made up to this point, where it's like, hey, let's see where Jared Vanderbilt is. Like, if he's going to add defensive heft here, now's the time to do it. If Gabe Vincent is going to be a credible rotation player who brings that element to the team, let's see it now. I'll be honest here.

I'm just with my guys, I'll be Frank. I was toying with the idea that the Mavs would finish above the Lakers over the second half of the season. And making that a bet, Waz is doing a very, vulgar motion right now. If you're on YouTube, you're privy to it. The Justin Barrier double down is unbelievable. Well, the problem

is the standings. Like, they're way far back here. But I will say. The problem is the basketball. The problem is the rosters. Yeah. I don't, I don't think the Mavs are going to be bad. I think there's a word we're not going to be bad. I think they're going to be quite good. I just don't know what it will be down the road there. But this

season, you know, seems fine. I don't really understand the Caleb Martin's and now he's hurt, which is weird. The follow-up moves are bad. And AD isn't playing right away, and so that's not helping PJ Washington isn't playing. They didn't hard. Just imagine when AD comes back.

It's not a total disaster there. No, hell no. All of the criticisms for the Mavs, by and large, are more future-looking, are more about the structure of your team and where it's headed. That changes when you lose look at Don. and replace him with Anthony Davis.

It's still a good roster. It's still the bones of a roster that just went to the finals. And you're adding another of the best players in the world. It's just a player who plays completely differently. And I think the thing we may be maybe like glossing over, even given all the Mavs experience playing without Luca this season, they haven't come up with some miraculous offensive concepts to compensate for that. It just kind of works or it doesn't, depending on jump shots falling,

depending on if Kyrie can create separation, depending on if you're getting the good Spencer Dinwiddie game or not, they're still trying to figure that stuff out. And it's going to get easier when you have Anthony Davis in there, getting a ton of stops and finishing plays with force and giving you a more versatile front-line presence than what they have, but it's not going to solve all those issues. And so for everything that the Lakers have to figure out,

the Mavs have an awful lot to figure out too, as far as this portion of the regular season and getting into the playoffs in one piece. Yep, I agree with that. What about the title race? That's what I have right down here as the last question. Talked all about the teams kind of vying for this. Do you think anything that happened at the deadline changes how you guys look at the overall title race?

Well, I picked the Mavs to not only get back to the finals, but to win it before the season. I forgot about that. I didn't pick that because I thought they were trading for Anthony Davis. I'll tell you that much. So, yeah, I think the West has definitely become, I think the Mavs with Luca, are a much better team than the Lakers are right now with Luca. I just think that's true. And so OKC's problems have definitely been diminished in my estimation

in terms of their pursuit of getting to the Western Conference Finals, which, you know, Varian Rob failed to remember. These guys didn't get out the second round last year. They got to make it to the damn conference finals. But I think the Luca trade makes it easier. Yeah. I just do. And not just the Luca trade, but Memphis didn't add anybody.

Didn't do nothing. The Nuggets didn't add anybody. The Rockets didn't trade young players for a veteran, Kevin Durant type who's going to change their prospects now. Although Gigi Jackson, he's in addition to this season. They've been slowly bringing guys back in a way that is meaningful. He looks good.

But yeah, all of the other potential contenders in the West did not add players who are going to make them more viable this season. Yeah. And the Thunder got Daniel Tice. So they did. I'll change things. I don't know if he's stayed on the roster. The Thunder, I think, are in a much stronger position now than they were a week ago.

Getting Chad Holmgren back. Huge news. Huge news. That just came out of nowhere. So, yeah, the Thunder are looking pretty good. But what about in? Shot Holmgren, man, full core fits alum. My guy.

My brother. That's how we knew he was going to be somebody. What about in the East, though? Because the best team in the conference did add somebody. They got DeAndre Hunter. Yeah. It's a good move for that. I like that.

You guys think about that differently, especially in light of the Celtics, playing practically full strength and losing to the Mavs last night in pretty ugly fashion yet again. See, this is the thing. The Celtics played the Cavaliers. They were not a D'Andre Hunter away from making that a more serious matchup. They smoked these guys. They were in control of that game the entire time. They just toyed with them the whole game.

They showed themselves to be in a class, a different class from the Cleveland Cavaliers. And so to me, the Celtics are still the guys to be. I think DeAndre Hunter, because he's 6-8 and not 6-3, like the guy he was traded for, very physical guy. I've personally felt like his defensive, you know, know-how or ability has always been more theoretical. It's overstated for sure. Then what he's actually put on the floor. But I understand the need to bring in a 6-8 guy.

who can move and can also make a shot when you're facing down Boston. Like, that's an obvious thing that you need to do, right? I want to see it on the floor because that guy is a ball stopping-ass, ball-hogging-ass person. That's been his M.O., his old career. At least he's better at it when he does stop it. You know, he's making shots at such a high level

that you can't complain about it too much. And this has been good DeAndre Hunter basketball. And from that perspective, this is not a move that's going to bite the cast. by any stretch. I just don't think to align with Waz here that it really changes things all that much. It might help them slightly in the Boston matchup. And maybe that's enough. Given where the calves are, you don't want to do anything dramatic.

You don't want to break a formula that's been working so well for you, at least in the regular season so far. And so you make a move like this that's a little bit matchup dependent. That's a little bit tailored specific to your matchup with Boston and trying to make that more competitive and that more viable, that more survivable for the guards and wings we're talking about. for Cleveland. So from that perspective, it's all well and good. I'm still kind of disappointed

that Nix didn't do anything other than trade away Jericho Sims. Yeah, I guess they're just banking on they're banking on the health of Mitchell Robinson, which seems fucking insane. And he was supposed to be back in January. That was the original diagnosis.

Still isn't back, but he's been clear for full contact. And I would assume this like prolonged rehab. is like with an eye towards we need this guy in the postseason to play minutes. It's just this guy has been unreliable, health-wise. Well, not just health-wise. When was, well, I guess partially health-wise, but not just availability.

I think there's a larger issue of when was the last time Mitchell-Robinson looked like Mitchell-Robinson. And it's been longer than him just being out. Yeah. I still like the Knicks in this derby, but I have to say I love what the Cavs did. seeing the opportunity to go and make this year their year and getting a guy, as Rob said, who will play well or seems to match up well in a Celtic series. Like Hunter has his flaws.

He hasn't been good practically until this season. So there is a little bit of like when is that record going to stop there. But he is shooting the hell out of the ball, high volume, scoring the hell out of the ball. I think he's at 19 points per game off the bench was kind of like one of the front runners sneakily for six man of the year. and just like he's a strong physical dude. I think that's what you need in those matchups when, especially if you wanted to throw a small ball lineup,

if you got into that situation where Jared Allen couldn't play in crunch time, like he's this type of guy who could easily flash to the four and you can make it work there, especially with their core and some of those other guys that they have in the mix. And so I don't think it changes my outlook, but I will say I'm increasingly getting more suspicious of the Celtics because we're at the point where it really has to be a flip switch situation. They're on paper.

They're great. I think that it could work. They flip that switch against Cleveland this week, y'all. Yeah, but they just like they lay down practically every other game. And just like I need like two weeks. That was bad. Yeah. And even the other game.

It feels like Jason Tatum has had to save them more often than he hasn't, which is, I guess, good because you know that he is getting the confidence in doing so. And he's stepping into a role that he probably hadn't been before for them. But it's just hasn't been great. I just want two weeks. I want two weeks where they're just a buzzsaw like they were going into last year. And otherwise, by the way, if you wanted to, if you wanted to throw some cold water on the Celtics, you know, sort of demolition of the calves the other day, Derek White made about seven of the craziest shots that I might have ever seen in my life. Like, literally the guy was making impossible shots. And so if you're the Cavs, you know, if you're Kenny Atkinson who at half time, he's like, look, these guys are making some hard shots right now.

You can take that, like, as solace, like, all right, man, we made them take hard shots. I think our defense is there. We need to be better about how we attack them. But, like, we're right there. Okay. You can take that as the takeaway. I don't. My takeaway was the Celtics are nightmare matchup.

The thing that's made the Cavs offense very special this year, the Celtics take it away because they're switching everything and aren't scrambling against them. And it's like, all right, Garland, like, do something. All right, Mitchell, do something. But if they wanted to, they could be positive about that outcome the other night. Yeah. All right, let's wrap it there.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back. Regular schedule. next week. So that means Monday. That means Thursday. We'll talk you then.