The Ringer NBA Show - The Bucks Beat the Hawks and Advance to the NBA Finals | Postgame

Episode Date: July 4, 2021

Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann rejoin after Game 6 in Atlanta to discuss Milwaukee's victory over the Hawks and advancing to the Finals against the Suns. They discuss what key elements took the Bucks to victory, along with what to look forward to in the Finals when the two teams battle it out. Hosts: Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Kahn is the Ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Conn.

Welcome to the Saturday night edition of the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor. The Bucks just won. Game 6 over the Hawks 118, 107 to advance the NBA finals against the Suns. Tuesday night will be game one of the finals. And joining me to discuss all of this is the ringers J. Kyle Mann. What's up, Kyle? Not too much, Kev.

It's been quite a playoffs, quite an. up and down playoffs, you know, kind of, I won't say culminating, but the beat goes on of players. A lot of interesting players are kind of getting their due in a way tonight, you know, heading on into the finals and, you know, like Drew Holiday, a guy that we've talked about for years. We kind of debated about whether or not he was eligible to be on the underrated list anymore, heading into a finals. That's awesome to see. I was thinking in the closing minutes of that game, PJ Tucker, going to be in a final.

I'm pretty sure this is his first finals. I'm happy for him. Long career, but the Bucks, as much as we've sort of teased them and it's been up and down, they've managed to be tough. They've been tough throughout the series, I thought, been pretty resilient. No doubt about it. I mean, the fact they were out with out with the Adis, Yant de Kumpo again, out again with that hyper extended knee.

The Hawks got Trey Youngback, but he wasn't his full, shifty self. And Milwaukee led the entire game. but this was a up and down kind of a classic game of runs, a game that we just watched, Kyle. The Hawks got the deficit to two points early in the third quarter. And this, it was a turning point here. Kevin Herder had a chance to hit a three-pointer to give the Hawks the lead. He missed that shot, clanked it off the rim, part of his horrible series that he had.

And then that's when Chris Middleton just got scorching hot at a 23-point quarter, his second 20-plus point quarter against Atlanta this series. the Bucks got the lead to 20. Herder got pulled for Cam Reddish. Then it went the other way. Cam Reddish just goes off, has 21 points. Hawks get at the 6 late in the fourth quarter. But it wasn't enough, you know, without Trey limited.

But Kyle, like you said, you know, a lot of guys getting their flowers here going to the finals here for the Hawks, for the Bucks and for the Sons on the other side here. But the Bucks doing this without Janus and for this team to step up twice after losing him and getting blown out. It looking like he might have a major, major injury. It's been a wild past week here for the Bucks. And I thought in these last two games, the two wins they had against Atlanta, it exemplified the importance of depth and schematic adjustments. These are ingredients for championship teams and the Bucks had different guys step up and Boodenholz on that coaching staff made the right adjustments. I come away, highly impressed from what Milwaukee did, especially doing this

without Janus with the way he went down. Yeah, and I think you could go a few different directions in terms of giving credit here. Obviously, the 44 point quarter, like you said, hugely driven by Middleton. I thought Middleton was just absolutely sadistically punishing Kevin Hurder there for a while before they went with Reddish. And Big Game Cam Reddish came in and kind of gave them. You know, you got a couple different, you know, kind of outlier performances. Jeff T. comes in and gives you, I think he ended up with like 11 points.

Well, he was just hitting a lot of shots on broken plays. I thought him and Bud in Atlanta, Kyle. Yeah, yeah. Demons. Redemption. If you like narratives, that's a good one. You could tell he was enjoying himself. But I know a big thing, too, is like those shots were kind of coming off of broken plays.

And I think that, you know, PJ Tucker, they were gang rebounding in a way. You know, whenever Atlanta would try to get those offensive lineups on the floor, they would have like PJ and Brooke and Middleton and Drew. It was just like a really, they really, really attacked the glass and created extra possessions and made it tougher because they weren't, it didn't feel like they took bad shots.

You know, like Middleton was hunting his shot on that stretch and creating his own shot. But that was the only guy I felt like that was really hunting his own creation in a way that could have swung the other way. But I kept waiting for Jeff Teague to do something like epically dumb. And he never quite passed the threshold.

He played within himself. He had a couple times where he attacked the basket. I was like, what is he doing here? But overall, he gave them a big lift, I thought. I thought, you know, one of the big keys to the series victory for the Bucks here was their defense. In games one to four, the Bucks switched only 40% of their screens according to second spectrum. In game five, without Trey, everything changed there. Milwaukee switch 74% of their screens in their game five, switched one through five at

Brooke Lopez on the perimeter against Bogdanovich. And they did that again tonight right off the start. They had Tucker start the game on Trey and they were able to switch Bobby Portis onto him. And that allowed them to have PJ Tucker with size on the switch against a big, either Capella or Collins, depending on who switched. And I thought from the jump, the Bucks did a nice job over the course of the game. Atlanta did start to pick them apart in little ways, finding ways to cut, move the ball

quickly, got some dunk opportunities when the Bucks were out of their typical alignment, but I thought the Bucks, they called the right, they made the right decisions on the defensive end of the floor throughout the series. And that really discombobulated Atlanta's offense throughout the series without Trey in Game 5 and tonight with Trey Young. And this is what the Bugs built for all season long, right, Kyle, for a moment like this to be able to have something else besides the drop defense to utilize to stop an offense. And so for the Bucks to execute at the level that they did in both game five, and six. I'm highly impressed looking forward to the NBA finals here. We'll have a lot more time on

the Ringer NBA show to talk about that series because game one isn't until Tuesday. But for the Sons in their last series against the Clippers, they scored only 0.8 points per chance when the Clippers switched, 1.1 with the Clippers defense at anything else. So I do wonder, like, what are your early thoughts on what the Bucks might do defensively in an NBA final series against the Phoenix Suns. The Hawks kind of lost a little bit of their pace dictation, I thought, whenever Trey went down. I like Hurtor and I like Bogdanovich as decision makers, sort of secondary,

secondary kind of decision makers, but they aren't enough of, they're not scores and creators to the level that Trey is. So if you start to think about like the two-headed monster, I would assume, I mean, they're going to be able to switch in a, in a similar way to the clippers. So I think what you said is pretty astute and pretty on. And they're going to be able to put, you know, they're going to be able to put effective offensive lineups on the floor to kind of combat that.

But I still kind of feel, I don't know, are you past the point of doubting? Like, I don't know. I feel strongly like Phoenix is a team that is humming and clicking on all cylinders. I feel like their bigs are going to, I feel like Aiton is going to be in a good position to match up with Brooke. I think he can take away some of the things at Brooke.

likes to do. I lean sons in this matchup. How many games? Are you saying that because you agree? Are we going to differ? I mean, I'm picking the sun to win the NBA five. Right, right, right, right. I would go, I'll say six. How about that? Okay. You know, and I think, I mean, it's hard

to say right now because we still don't know with Yannis. It's worth mentioning that Chris Haynes from Yahoo Sports reported on Friday that there's belief that Yannis could have been given the green light for a game seven, which means in all likelihood, maybe he'd be given that green light for a game one on Tuesday night. How he looks, whether he's out there, if he's able to play a full, you know,

35, 40 minutes. These are all questions we don't know the answer to. And that would obviously impact what we're going to, you know, feel about the series and what it means for the son's chances and what the bucks can do on either end of the floor. But I do think this son's team provides significantly more challenges. Like Kevin Herder was awful in this series. He did not play a lot tonight. It was so bad. Yeah. Two for 10 for tonight. he shot 40% from three in the first true rounds, Kyle. He had that big game against the Sixers. We're thinking this guy is going to help the Hawks,

maybe go to the NBA finals, and then he shot 28% from three in this series against the Bucks. Shot fell apart, did not hit the big shots when he needed to. And this goes back to what you said at the top about some role players stepping up. Kevin Herder couldn't hit anything in the series for Atlanta. Pat Conantin multiple times hit big time. shots at big moments. Andy did other stuff too.

He had a tip offensive rebound late in that fourth quarter when Atlanta had a run. You had Jeff Teigen that first half going off for the Milwaukee Bucks. Different guys for Milwaukee stepped up in ways that you didn't consistently get from some of the guys who would have expected that to for Atlanta. And I mean, did what did the Bucs show anything this series, Kyle, for you to doubt them less against the sons? Or does the doubt continue? with their inconsistencies and what we've seen from them for a long time now.

Do you feel any better about them? I think that they are a little bit different than the Clippers and that they have legit bigs that they can keep on the floor, which is a little different because Zubach isn't going to be as effective spacing out. And I think, I personally don't think taking it back to Yonis, he said a few things I kind of wanted to touch on. But like,

I don't think that Yonis should play specifically because I think him not being out there has allowed them to shift to a different offensive identity that if he is hampered and he is out there, it could cause problems for them. So I want to make sure I understand. You're saying if he's not 100% or like... Yes, that's what I'm saying. Because I mean, I'm just going...

What if he can't be? Ever. What if he can be? What if he can only be 60%? 70%. I'm skeptical about that. And that kind of segues, well,

specifically because of his play style. Like, I mean, are you going to get like high post touches for Janus where he's going to be... Like, he's a momentum, rhythm player and a lot of, you know, the biggest part of his effectiveness is his downhill sort of, you know, lateral movement. Man, if your knee is sore, again, you know, I'm going to joke about this, but the knee expert here, because I've had every knee injury, if your knee is sore, man,

I just don't, he doesn't have the type of game that I think would do well in that scenario. I had a question for you, down the stretch of that game, you know, they kept saying even Reggie was kind of alluding to it over and over again. Like, we got to get, you know, the Hawks need to get some kind of a something from Trey here. Do you think that it was a smart decision ultimately to leave Trey on the floor? Because they kept talking about, they, I don't know if I agree. Because throughout the game, they kept talking about like, well, he looks normal to me.

He didn't look normal to me the whole game. Like, I didn't think he looked right. He kept trying. There were a couple different times. They kept attributing it to timing. I was like, well, the two things are interconnected. Like he physically just looked like unsure of his body a few different times where he was trying to step back. He was wincing after some hard landings too, multiple times throughout the game.

Yeah. And if you try to go hunting, if you go try to, you can, Rick Petino used to have this thing where he would talk about like, if you try hard enough to turn something on at some point you turn it off. And I kind of started to get that vibe with Trey towards the end of the game where I was just like, I don't know if it's in their best interest to keep pounding it to him because he just did not look right to me. He didn't look right, but he's still Tray Young. And the upside of Tray Young is outweighs the upside of Kevin Herder, you know, being out there or whoever that fifth guy might have been replacing him. I just think, you know, you have to ride your best guys and not having Tray Young out there. I mean, like sometimes when it comes to decisions in life, it's like, what am I going to regret the least? Am I going to regret not playing Tray Young more than playing a limited Tray Young? I would definitely regret not playing

Trey Young more than I would giving it a chance with Trey Young. Does that make sense? That's the way I sort of look at it here. Like you have to ride Trey Young and have to give him an opportunity to have a moment because that team was pushing it through Cam Reddish. Like you have a chance there. You have an opportunity.

And maybe he gets hot. Maybe something magical happens. It just didn't. It just didn't. But the Hawks put themselves in a position to potentially win that. I mean, they really they gave themselves a chance there, They did. They also got an outlier performance, I mean, based on what we've seen. I mean, we do need to talk about Cam Reddish. Oh, yeah. We'll talk about Cam and the Hawks future a little bit later.

Yeah, I just think that if you have a game that is predicated on you being the focus of the off, like all eyes are on tray a lot of the time. And if he's not right and he's unable to create kind of consistent downhill shiftingness and he's not able. I don't know if there was some way to shift him into sort of a decoy situation. where because Bogdanovich was doing okay. It's just kind of, I don't know, they were pinched

into a tough situation there in my opinion. They could, I felt like they went away from Collins. Collins was actually showing some competency kind of using size mismatches

to his advantage. He looked comfortable. I thought they went away from him. Maybe that was something they could have gone to. But I thought Portis actually kind of attacked Gallo

at different points throughout the game and made him look a little stunted, a little slower. I don't know, the, the Bucks just kind of, Middleton kind of picked his spots at the right time, and that was kind of the story of the game, ultimately, I think. Let's actually talk about that Atlanta Hawks future now. Camerettish, 21 points tonight,

the talking trash, you know, had a look of a killer in his eyes at times. I loved seeing that energy and that enthusiasm and that spirit on the court from Cameron, because that's one of the things people knocked him for. You know, sometimes he goes in and out of the game. He's up and down, hot and cold. This guy was hot the entire game.

It was great to see that. This Atlanta team, you know, John Collins will be a free agent. They have some decisions to make this off season. But overall, I mean, if you're a Hawks fan, there's no guarantee that you're back here again. There's no guarantee of that. But if you're a Hawks fan here going to Game 6 against the Milwaukee Bucks and the Eastern Conference finals, you have to be feeling great about the way Cam Reddish looked, about the way Anyake O'Kong looked in his limited minutes coming off the bench,

he looked very, very seasoned for a rookie big man in 12, 15 minutes stints. You have to be feeling great about Trey Young in the postseason. He was not a liability in the way people might have expected on the defensive end of the floor. Bogdanovich had big moments. Hearder was good

the first two rounds. You'll get DeAndre Hunter back. You'll have other pieces coming in. Other changes to be made potentially through trade and free agency. The Hawks could very well be back. here again, Kyle. They have the pieces and they have a great roster construction with the way they've built around Trey Young. What is the missing piece for them moving forward, though, to help

complete what they have? That's a good question because they do have, the missing piece may just be maturity, honestly. I mean, because if you look at their roster, it's the talent is great. I mean, maybe you would like, that's a really good question. I mean, because they don't really forced, they don't depend on a lot of like offensive creation in like the four or five spots. You know, it's pretty heavily one, two, three. I don't know how much you care about that because you have to pick a way to build your team and they've picked this way. It's an embarrassment of wings. I mean, it's crazy that you were talking about Hunter, Hunter would have made a big difference tonight with Middleton. I don't know that it would have stopped him. Reddish, he's a little bit more

of a little more disciplined as an on-ball defender in terms of like staying down. Reddish gets a little, of course, Reddish is a little more of a disruptive type athlete. I just think that in terms of size and strength that Hunter could have given a little more of a battle. But if you think just around, I mean, they have like six wings that are legitimate NBA wings that could play. I don't know. What do you think? Where do you think their offense should come through? I kind of feel like maybe it is just a case of them playing together because the pieces are, it's hard to complain if you're a Hawks fan.

like this roster is put together so well i think you know looking at this roster for the hawks i love what de nello galari brings to them but it's important to keep in mind that this august he'll be turning 33 years old so you have gallo with a long injury history turning 33 and the fact is that he is one year left um guaranteed on his deal then a non guaranteed year so he's signed through at least 2022 possibly 2023 having a guy who can fill that role, a big forward who can get buckets for you is critical. Could that be already on the roster? It could be DeAndre Hunter. It could be Cam Reddish. I say find another one because having that guy who can get a bucket for you at any moment is critical. And with Hunter and Reddish,

Reddish more easily projects into that role of a perimeter oriented guy, but finding more people in that role who also can bring more in the defensive end of the floor is important here. And I think for the Hawks, we saw them go without and Capella on the floor at certain moments down the stretch of that game. I look forward to seeing what they do with John Collins here. Because with John Collins, his role and his importance of the team is clear.

I thought he really brought it on the offensive end of the floor at times. I mean, he's solid at worst defensively. I wonder what the market is going to be for him. I wonder what the price is that the Hawks would feel comfortable bringing him back.

How high do you think you'd be willing to go? here because you don't want to restrict yourself too much with like 25, you know, max level potentially. Like, where would you feel good about John Collins with his given role on the Atlanta Hawks roster? How much I would pay him? Or, I mean, I guess maybe a better question is how much of a priority should he be to bring him back?

I mean, I really liked, we're big on body language here at the ringer. I really liked his body language a lot. I thought that he played hard consistently whether or not he was getting the ball or not. I definitely think that his offensive role could expand. Like I kind of felt like that throughout the night. I was like, I feel like we could get more out of Collins. It makes you wonder, there's this kind of thing with team sometimes

where short-term satisfaction can kind of stop you from making the move that you need to make to get to the level that you need to get to. Of course, over and over again, we say that you need to have this X number of all-stars on your team to get to a certain spot in the playoffs. These playoffs have been aberrational enough to sort of run against that. Do you think that there's a move where since they have this glut of wings,

I like Collins, I would want to keep them around if I can, within reason. But since they have this glut of wings, do you think that they could sort of parlay that for an All-Star, a guy who is like a big-time creator? Or do they need to? do you want to follow the Sun's game plan here, bring in a great veteran?

Is that where you're proposing there? Who would that even be? Who would even be affordable at that point? I know they've talked about like Mike Conley potentially being on the move. I know, but I don't know that who would be out there that would be a good fit in that sense. Well, I mean, I think we did see the game plan, though. The two teams in the NBA finals, Chris Paul, and Jay Crowder were added to the Phoenix Sun's two veterans to a year.

younger team help complete that roster. And then for the Bucks, of course, added Drew Holiday before the season, got P.J. Tucker before the season, added Brooke Lopez a couple of years ago, who had some awesome moments throughout this postseason, dominated offensively in game five, dominated defensively for long stretches in game six. I'm really, really excited, Kyle, for Buck Sons. I am really, really excited for this series. None of these players in either roster have ever won an NBA finals.

We're seeing some first timers in the finals that are legends. Yannas will play at some point if that Chris Haynes report is accurate that he could have gotten the green light for game seven. At some point, we are going to say Yonnas playing in the NBA files, two-time MVP, finally going to get an opportunity. We are going to see Chris Paul in year 16. It's been 16 years. Chris Paul is going to get a chance, Kyle. I'm stoked. Like there's so many likable players on both sides.

Chris Middleton's fun to watch. Drew Holliday's awesome. PJ Tucker plays the way I would hope any player wants to play. How could you not want to play like PJ Tucker with the intensity that he has? And the Phoenix size, you got McKell Bridges with eight foot long arms. DeAndre Aitin going from a guy who people say, oh, he doesn't try hard. He doesn't have intensity to being one of the leaders of that defense anchoring them, being a constant enforcer on that end of the floor.

You get Devin Booker going off. It's just so many likable guys. Campaign. Kyle, this is a, this is a very likable NBA finals. You really got jazz there for a second. I'm pumped up, man. This is going to be good. This is going to be good.

No, I mean, it is. I'm really, really excited to see the, the wing. I think it's a wing driven matchup that's going to be, it's just going to be fascinating to watch because, yeah, I mean, well, I get my wires crossed there for a second. Yeah, I mean, who do you think that they're going to put Drew on is going to be question. I think that that's going to be interesting. Drew, Drew guarded all five positions tonight. He was insanely impressive defensively. Oh my God. Do you think, who do you think the

matchup is? Even though we expect them to kind of go towards like a switch-heavy scheme, who do we think they sick him on? Is it going to be Booker? Is it going to be CP3? I mean, I kind of feel like it might be CP3, to be honest. Well, during the regular season, Holiday defended Chris Paul for 42 possessions, defended Devin Booker for 25 possessions. And the primary defender on Booker was Chris Middleton. We did see in this series,

especially in that fourth quarter, at times the Hawks did try to attack Middleton a little bit. Maybe we'll see them alternate. I could see a situation in which it's Drew Holiday. You stick on the hot guy. If it's a Chris Paul night, Drew Holiday is on him. If it's

Devin Booker night, Drew Holliday is on him. but that does get back to one of the things we talked about earlier, Kyle, with the switching scheme. I mean, Drew Holiday very well might start possessions on Chris Paul. I can't imagine a scenario in which that the, that we see the bucks switch a one five pick and roll. If DeAndre Aitin's screening for Chris Paul and then Brooke Lopez goes on to Chris Paul and then you have DeAndre eight and being defended by Drew Holiday,

I don't see that, but you never know. Like we very well could because this is sort of. have been a theme here. We saw the Clippers do this against the Jazz trying to limit Rudy O'Ber who could not beat them. We saw the Clippers tried against Aiton. It worked at times with that switching. And we saw that in this series with the

Bucks switching against the Hawks at times taking Clint's Capella out of it because that rim running and the gravity when it forces the defense to suck into the paint, it can open up shooters and a whole other slew of offensive opportunities. So I do wonder if maybe we could see that even if it doesn't make total

sense on paper if you have Chris Paul on an island against Brooke Lopez. I'm intrigued. Because I'll tell you what, Kyle, Brooke Lopez did not look like a liability? Did he? No, he did not at all. I thought that honestly, I think Brooke Lopez made a ton of big plays in this game. I thought that they were really, they really dictated their own pace really well and picked their spots, I thought. I never really felt like I know Charles was kind of busting their chops at halftime about them settling and not getting to the rim. I thought over the course of this game, they did start to pick their spots pretty well.

But Brooke in the first quarter, I wrote it down. I mean, he had a sequence where I think they went on, like in the second quarter, they went on a 10-0 run where he hit a jumper. He contested like a couple different mid-range shots in a row. He had a putback. Brooke has had amazing. It's amazing just how skilled he is for how big he is.

And he's, and like we've talked about a bunch of times on this show. It's like he's, he's positionally smart on defense, so he's able to and provide enough to keep himself on the floor, which is, it's critical. It's really difficult today in the land of, it's hard for the dinosaurs to not go extinct these days in terms of big.

No doubt about that. It's, it's fun to see these bigs evolve their games and adapt. And I think, really, for both of these teams and the other conference finalists, with the Clippers, you know, getting Reggie Jackson, getting Nick Batum,

The Sun's getting guys like Cameron Payman to come off their bench. Even a Tori Craig played 31 minutes in the close-out game against the Clippers. And then with the Bucks, you know, we mentioned earlier, getting PJ Tucker, you know, having Pat Conneth and have some big minutes for that team, having guys who round out your roster on minimum or near minimum contracts, they're not the stars. They're not the guys who necessarily swing a series, but they are players who can swing a quarter.

and I think there's a number of them on each side of it here. And for the Sons, I look at their bench unit. And one of the only flaws on the Sons roster is the lack of a true big behind Aiton. So if Aiton were to get into foul trouble, there's not a guy behind him. Like Sarch is not a big, you know, you don't want Frank Kerminski playing heavy minutes in the postseason. And it didn't punish them against the Clippers as much they could have. Yes. And I'm not quite sure this Bucks team is going to be able. able to defeat them in that way either unless you do get Aiton into foul trouble unless you do.

And if that's the case, I wonder if we would see the bucks go jumbo again, some big Bobby Portis minutes, Janus perhaps out there depending on his health, Brooke Lopez, like DeAndre Aton once again, throughout this entire postseason, we said it every single round. DeAndre Aten has to have the series of his life. He did it in round one. He did it in round two. He did it in round three. once again, I think about DeAndre Aten and like this guy, at some point he's going to have to stop Janice.

At some point he's going to have to be battling Brooke Lopez. At some point, Brooke Lopez is going to be spotting up from three. He's going to have to be out there on him and still have to help inside. This is another series for DeAndre Aiton where he's going to get tested in so many different ways. And I just look forward to seeing how a young guy like him continues to respond to the challenge. How do you feel about this series for DeAndre Aighton, Kyle? I feel pretty confident about him on the perimeter like you were talking about. I mean, in these playoffs, he hasn't really faced like a competent, unless I'm forgetting somebody, like a competent true stretch big.

Because, you know, Gobert is not going to be out there, Drummond and AD was hurt. Gasol a little bit, you know, Gasol hit some shots, but it wasn't enough to be a big deal. I trust Aitin in that setting. He's, well, you know, Yokic is also a pretty key person to mention in that conversation. But, I mean, Aiton's earned our trust, I think. It's hard to, it's hard to doubt him defensively at this point. He's harder to pick on. He's patient deep into the clock. It's hard to get him confused in like multiple actions. And he's, he's talked a lot about how, you know, Chris Paul, this is ad nauseum at this point, but Chris Paul did a lot for him. You know, him and Monty Williams challenging his focus and he's ramped it up. So in terms of Aiton, often. Offensively, I don't think that much is going to change for him. What's going to be asked from him as long as he just continues to be like hyper efficient, hard rolling to the basket, finishing, tapping shots in.

I've been super impressed with his hands around the rim. I mean, I always knew he kind of had that, but he's got a really incredible ability to just guide shots in. You ever notice that? Those put back, he can like turn his hands to, you know, to guide the ball right in. It's really nice. They're not full on tips. He guides them. It's really cool.

It's funny to see. but for Aiton, I think it's much of the same. I really do. It's going to be a question of like, is Chris Paul going to be slowed down at all for me? Because I think the bucks are long enough and competent enough to Tucker and Booker is going to be interesting too because we talked a lot about like the physicality with Beverly

and some of those off ball actions. You know, Booker, it seemed like he started with momentum against the clippers and then he lost his momentum off ball and then he got it back as the series went on. Tucker is going to be an interesting challenge. If it's Tucker that's on him, I don't know. It's fun to just sort of think about the matchups

because these two teams are defensively competent, but it'll be interesting just to see if Janus is able to play. A lot of things in the air. And at some point, we'll inevitably have the conversation. Will Janus defend Evan Booker? Will he defend a man and man? Like, that's going to be a thing on TV.

It's going to be a thing on podcast. That's going to happen. And last thing I want to hit here, Kyle. I'm just so stoked for both of these fan bases. Oh yeah. I love seeing those Bucks fans outside thousands and thousands of people jumping up and down like it's a concert going crazy. Those are some of the most fun things if you're a fan is like not necessarily being at the game, but being in a big gathering like that. Like, oh man, some of the most fun times I've ever had as a fan.

Sometimes it's better than being at the game. I mean, like, you know, you want to be at a game. But like sometimes it's like great to be like at a restaurant with your friends over your friend's house enjoying it together. watching on television. That could be just a special. I almost got my nose broken at a, at a, at a guy. No, I know. It was at a celebration in a big crowd like that.

Somebody jumped into me and almost broke my nose. Cracked it. My scariest concert moment was that I saw Odd Future. See no Odd Future Kyle, Tyler, Creator. Come on, man. Yeah, of course. I've seen Odd Future, I think, three or four times in concert. The first two times I saw them.

This was 2012. I think their first year they toured. I saw them in Boston twice. We were up like on a balcony and watched all the crazy kids down low pushing, you know, jumping up and down, feet flying everywhere. And the third show, it was at the House of Blues in Boston. And at the House of Blues in Boston, if you eat at their restaurant before you get the past the line, you can go in before anybody.

So we did. We did that. We were up front. The internet opened the show. Cool, chill band. There's a lot of pushing against our bags. We're like, uh-oh. That's my man, the internet.

That's my man, what's his name? Steve Lacey, right? Yeah, Steve Lacey. Yeah, Matt Martians is on that too. So, but like, yeah, we saw them open. And then Odd Future comes out. And within like 20 seconds, multiple feet come flying past our face. A girl gets clocked right in front of us.

And like, we look at each other. It's like me and four or five of my friends. One of my friends has like a bad back. and we're looking at each other like, let's get out of here. I don't anticipate that it would be that crazy at a Bucks or Sons celebration, but it could be. Be careful out there. Milwaukee people deserve this. And I want to say, too, I mean, I feel bad for Atlanta.

Atlanta is a city that loves basketball. I enjoyed seeing them have a good time following this Hawks team. Every fan base involved here is a flower. that has been yearning for water in the desert for a long time here. And Phoenix, as we know, you know, that fan base is rabid and excited for this too. So it's going to be whoever wins, it's going to be a fan base that is overdue to celebrate on this level, in my opinion. Absolutely, Kyle. I'm looking forward to the NBA final.

So start up on Tuesday night. Last thing, you said series prediction with Sons and Six. Yeah, I'm going to stick with Sons and Six. I'm not good at predictions, but we'll see. Hold me to it. Let's do it. I'm going to shift the suns in seven. I think this could be an epic.

It could be an epic, Kyle. Like, there'll be like poems written about this? Is that what you mean? Years from now? Maybe, maybe we'll see some poems in the form of a Van Halen right now adaptation called Bright Now. Maybe that's what it will be. Maybe it already exists. It could.

You should just go ahead and just make that and impress everybody. I can see you playing like a big guitar solo on that. Yeah, with a fake wig on. doing my Eddie Van Halen. Yeah. Do you think that there's a young player in this series that could, before we go, that could have,

that could level up and have a surprise, big impact in this series? Most likely on the Suns. I mean, I mean, yeah, like who were the candidates on the Bucks? I don't think there is one necessarily for,

to fit that. On the Sun side, Cameron Payne would fit that. McHell Bridges could fit that. Chris Paul. I mean, Devin Booker like doesn't in that back court because he's already a star player. Cameron Payne could have more big nights.

You know, doing it on the NBA, he's already had some big games, but doing it on the NBA final stage is a totally different thing than doing it in the conference finals or the second round. Would you agree? I mean, the basketball, is there like a basketball difference between the finals and in the conference finals? I just mean the stage.

Yeah, I know. Well, it depends. I guess it just depends on how it is seen through his eyes because all of this has been unbelievable in terms of campaign. I mean, what an unbelievable story, really. It would go, if he continues and has an incredible story and keeps going, yeah, I mean, it's going to be one of the wilder stories in NBA history, I think. If he leaves the league and comes back and then has an impact like this,

and kudos tomani Williams for reaching out to him, honestly. I mean, that's, that was a really incredible call on their part. For sure. I mean, on either side, on the sun's side, it would be. be a story of a team that was lost for 10 years that gets this legendary player and Chris Paul and a coach that he had played for before in Monty Williams, James Jones, this great player who brought in the right guys and kept the right pieces. And Ryan McDonough for picking some important pieces too.

Sure. Yep. And then on the Bucks side, obviously they've been through it. They've lost before. They've taken their punches and they've dealt with their adversity throughout this postseason. and if the Bucks win at all, the team lifted them to the finals without Janus, with Brooke Lopez stepping up, with Chris Middleton stepping up, with PJ Tucker, all these different guys.

And then if Yonis were to come back and help lift them to a championship, what a way to write that story would be. Because Yonis, at the time he signed that deal, Kyle, people said, is this the right decision? Is this the right thing to do? Well, the teammates answered that question in games five and six to lift them to the NBA finals. Now, Janice will at some point have to return, help lift them to the NBA finals.

Either way, dude, it's going to be a sensational story. I'm excited for this and I'm looking forward to talking with you about it. Some point next week, I'm not sure if we have another Saturday show next week because there's no game that night. Either way, Kyle, we get other stuff coming up on the radio. We got lots to talk about KOS. Lots, lots to talk about. Well, at the least, we get a lot of draft to talk about coming up to. Combine is in the rear rear view mirror.

Full speed ahead. There's a lot happening in the NBA. It's going to be trade season coming up to, in addition to the NBA finals, we'll be doing more live green rooms next week after the NBA finals games. I'll be on the mismatch on Tuesday night with Chris Vernon reacting to game one. I can't wait for that. And Kyle, I look forward to the next time we do another pod together. Likewise, man. Can't wait to lay eyes on you again, Casey.

That was creepy, but don't worry about it. It's late. Same to you, Kyle. Thank you, everybody for listening to today's episode of the. ringer NBA show and thank you to Steve Allman for producing it. Follow the NBA show on Spotify or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and be sure to tell a friend about the show if you liked it. Thank you to everybody in Green Room who listened live to the show on Saturday night. Thank you again. I hope you have a fun rest of your night.