The Ringer NBA Show - The Bucks Squeeze Out a Win in Game 4 Despite Devin Booker’s Best Efforts. Plus: Kawhi Leonard’s Knee Surgery and Ben Simmons Trade Rumors. | Group Chat

Episode Date: July 15, 2021

Coming to you live on Greenroom right after Game 4 of the NBA Finals or whenever you like on Spotify (or wherever you get your podcasts), Justin, Rob, and Wos talk about the Bucks beating the Suns to tie the series (0:30). Then they get into the offseason drama of the day, namely Kawhi Leonard’s ACL surgery (39:35) and potential Ben Simmons trade scenarios (49:00) Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Associate Producer: Sasha Ashal Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On R2C2, C-C-2, C-Sabathia and Ryan Rucco guide listeners through everything going on in the MLB, NBA, and NFL. They also talk to friends, athletes, and celebrities about the world of sports, and much more. Check out R2C2 with C-C-2 with Sisi Sabathia and Ryan Ruko on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. To group chat, I am Justin Verrier joining me, Big Wise, Rob Mahoney. Gentlemen, we have a series in the NBA finals. Can you believe it? I can. How many fouls do I get on this pod, do you think?

depends on who's reffing. If you're Devin Booker, you get as many as you want here. Let me start here because I feel like this game was a culmination of everything we've been talking about these two teams for what, a week or two now. We've been saying so much about the Sons. This is their moment.

There's just this up-and-coming team young guys just coming into their own, blossoming into superstars of tomorrow before our eyes. And all the while, we've been saying the bucks need to muck this up. They need to be physical. They need to be the team that makes things hard for the sons. And I feel like we got that this game.

In particular, just the crucial moments of that fourth quarter, starting with the Janus Block, which, holy shit, that was incredible. Then it goes down the other way. Then it goes down the other way drew holiday one-handed rebound while holding off Chris Paul down on the blocks. And then Janus, I guess he kind of forced Chris Paul to turn it over more like, seem like Paul just kind of stumbled and then goes the other way and Milton finishes off. My God, just like everything you'd want from the bucks just coming together at the perfect

moment. Rob, as Mr. Milwaukee as the Kareem Abdul Mahoney, what do you think of here? No, I think you're spot on. This was like the ultimate win-ugly game for them. And no one exemplified that more than Drew who had a pretty horrific offensive game. I mean, kind of an inexplicable one in the sense that I just had no idea what he was doing with the ball a lot of the time. Sure. But he came up with so many of like 50-50 rebounds, obviously awesome defensive play,

but just wasn't there offensively. And this was a game where Milwaukee did not hit threes. They basically won with really tough defense and offensive rebounding effectively. Throughout this game, I was thinking to myself, Drew looks more like PJ Tucker with hair. You know, it's just like he wasn't doing anything. He had another awful game. Even Janus, I don't know if the sons were doing something. It seems like they were crowding him effectively.

seemed like in particular Jay Crowder and some of the wings were getting into him early on in order to stop his drive. Like I don't remember him finishing off a Eurostep that entire game. But like Chris Middleton, you got from him, enough from him. I want to call this like the Chris Middleton game, but I don't feel like that's appropriate wise. Like it seems more like they just like found a way to win, which seems like more appropriate for this buck team.

Yeah, but you know, it's the Chris Middleton game, but it's in tandem of the bucks. figuring out what their best option on offense is, and that's the two-time MVP, setting crushing screens on Middleton's guy, and allowing him the space, because Janus does attract that much gravity, to get off a mid-range two-pointed, which he is great at doing.

And we say it all the time. You know, the people say, well, analytics say mid-range is dead. No, mid-range is just never been a good shot for 99% of the players. These guys, Middleton, Chris Paul, Devin Booker, they're in the top 1% of mid-range shooters. So, yes, if they can get to a mid-range shot the way Middleton did, the way Devin Booker Shurisell did tonight, that's a great shot. And they were doing that by, wow, who would have thunk it? Spread, pick, and roll. Put Janus in a spread pick and roll and have him crush somebody at 22 feet and start your action that way.

Who could have ever predicted that? I wonder what Mike Dan Tony thinks as he watches these games that the Bucks play. Like, what are you guys doing half the time? Yeah. He's like, I want a job. Not exactly a coincidence of the Bucks for plus 21 in Pat Conantin's minutes tonight. Small ball for the Bucs. It's just such an easy recipe for success for them for as long as they can sustain it.

They should do it. Yeah. We should talk about the Bucs defense, though. Because Rob, you wrote about this coming into the game. Just what an effect the defense it had on Chris Paul. six turnovers in game two, I believe four in game three, which were his two highest, I believe the four tied a previous high from the Western Conference Finals. But now he had five in this game.

What is it that the bucks have figured out where they pretty much neutralized Paul these last couple games? Well, Drew has been awesome just hounding him all game long. And then the bigs are getting better about kind of eating into his space a little bit, swiping at the ball, especially, you know, even if he doesn't want to talk about it, Chris Paul is clearly going through something with his hand, some kind of injury. That certainly doesn't help your ball control. We saw him just lose his dribble a couple times in this game, which is pretty

uncharacteristic for him. But it's easy to forget on this side of Devin Booker's 42 points that the reason they started going to Booker was because Paul was just totally bottled up. And that never really changed. He never really was getting guys going. He never really was getting into his flow. And that's why I think, you know, even though Booker was going so well in this game, I think keeping Holiday on Paul for as long as possible is still the right play,

because the more you do that, the more you get all these other trickle-down turnovers where guys who aren't used to handling the ball as much have to do more, and you just get more opportunities if you're Milwaukee as a result. Also, JV, what I think you were seeing is that they're playing him for the drive. He wants to get to his mid-range. He wants to create that little bit of separation to get to his fadeaway mid-range that he's perfected. They're like, okay, we're going to get in your airspace and take us to the

up finish over length Chris Paul like let's face it he's not Kyrie Irving he's certainly not Jiamerrant he's not a finisher that's not what he does well anymore he doesn't have the burst he doesn't have the explosion and smartly the box are like we're way

bigger than you guys you know across the positions finish over us Chris Paul we're not just and even in the first half there were times where I could tell that what he really wanted to do was get to his mid-range because sort of Lopez dropped back in a little bit.

And Chris Paul basically, with the ball, went to a dead sprint to a spot and quickly rose up. He missed it, but you could tell he's like, God, I got to get to that spot, get to that specific shot. That's what he wants to do. And the bucks didn't allow him to do that tonight. Even on, you know, even on that turnover at the end of the game,

guys were in his airspace. That's why he turned it over. You know, they weren't giving them the sort of game. one game two where he just had all the room to breathe and just sort of slowly walk into his favorite jump shot guys was in his shirt and you know he couldn't do anything about it this was a great really tightly contested game but if devon booker hadn't shot a thousand percent on contested jumpers i think the bucks could have pulled away with this thing because no one else on the suns had it going at all yeah that's exactly what i was going to say like as much as they were in paul's shirt

like they were all up into Devin book every one of the shots that he took in from like the second quarter on was an impossible shot he was coming off of screens and just getting like a hair of an edge on his defender and getting shot off there was one replay that they showed where I think he was like posting up on Conantton and he kind of like sprung off of Conantin to get a fade away and Conantin's hand must have been just a needle like length away from him it's just like he was just making unbelievable shots. And I thought it was interesting too that at some point, the bucks were trying to get Holiday more onto Booker.

And it seemed like Paul still couldn't get going, even with Middleton and some of these other guys trading off on him, which suggests to me that, like, this isn't just a Drew Holiday thing, although he opens up a lot of things for everybody else. This is just the bucks playing incredible fucking defense. Well, it goes to what was saying about Chris Paul not being a guy who's going to take you to the rack right now. As long as you could put length on him and can kind of eat into his. space for that mid-range, there's not a lot he's going to be able to do to punish you.

And so, yeah, as long as Jeff Teague isn't in the game, I think you have a lot of options for how you want to guard CP right now. Right. Well, I mean, should we talk about Aiton 2 here? Because he got 17 rebounds, which is incredible. But he was held to six points, only nine shots from the floor. Are these two things related? Is it the fact that you shut off Paul, you shut off Aiton?

Or, like, are the Bucks also doing a much better job on just limiting Aton at the rim? Yeah, I think they're being smarter about they know exactly what they want to do what the sons have been wanting to do all series long, which is quickly. And there was a couple of times where they did quickly get him the ball on the mismatch after the switch on the pick and roll. And he caught it. But most of the time, they were really diligent about sandwiching them and making it really hard, sitting on his damn thigh and making it hard for him to catch those lobs.

Like that's, you know, obviously what we said they should have been doing to begin the series. but they finally figured that part out of it. And, you know, look, again, there was a lot of miscommunications, specifically early on. I think the reason why we saw so much Janus in the second half at center, one, because again, drink at home,

Janice at center is their best lineup. But two, the miscommunications were a lot more often when Lopez was out there. And, you know, the Bobby Port is stuff. I get the crowd loves him. He's like one of the few sports, spots on the switches where they're like, all right, this feels like lunch. But I think they would just better communication on those switches as far as making sure

two guys were on Ait and on the role when he got the mismatch with the little guy. And again, the guy who switched out onto Paul, the ball handler was in his face. Like, that's what you needed to be doing from the start is making Chris Paul be a one-on-one guy and beat you. Like, beat you how a star player is supposed to be able to. if the Suns had won this game, there would have been a nightmare film session of the Bucks just completely blowing their assignments in the first.

They did a lot of them. There still will be knowing bud. Yeah. There must have been 10 possessions like that where they just completely lost a guy and gave up either a wide open three or a wide open layup and nearly cost him the NBA finals. So does it, I mean,

I'm surprised that we're now here four games into a 2021 NBA finals and saying that the defense is dictating play here. Are we surprised, Rob, that like, considering all that we talk about offense, even when we want to credit guys' defensive efforts, we all say everything comes down to their ability on the offensive end. Are you surprised that, like, this is really becoming, like, a defensive battle here? Well, we did get two 40-point games here. Yeah, sure. Yeah, but I think the name of the game, JV, is to make your team a two-way team, right?

And the bottom line is not only you optimizing what has been, again, completely unreliable half-court offense by the Bucks all playoffs long. Now you're optimizing what's clearly been your obvious weak point the whole post season by playing Janus more minutes at the five. And guess what? Not only do you not lose a single thing defensively, you become much better and much more dynamic on that end of the floor. So yes, bud, that's the name of it again. and the playoffs is to optimize your goddamn lineups. And they're finally, finally doing that. And again, at the end of the game, they said,

okay, what does the matchup dictate that we do? We spread the freaking floor around Janice and Chris Middleton and hammer them with pick and rolls. Dare them to switch that thing. Dare them to put a little skinnier guy on Janus. Dare them put anybody who isn't Aiton on Janus on a switch in that spread, pick and roll. And watch us eat that up.

And what the Sun did was like, no, we're going to guard this with two. We're not going to switch it. And guess what? That gave Middleton the airspace because Janus, unlike a lot of people we see. I think KD. is like the main guy. Never fucking sets a clean screen. Yonis plants his freaking guy every time.

That matters. That creates separation. That gives Middleton an advantage. That puts the defense in a bind. And Middleton is one of the best mid-range shooters in the NBA. And they went to it over and over again. From music. Middleton from the mid-range.

I don't know why Bud doesn't like this, but like something was working and they just kept doing it. It's the Tailu special. Like, oh, this work two times in a row? Let's run it five times in a row. The combination of like the little hesitation that Yannis has on his role and the methodical way that Middleton attacks mid-range,

there's just a moment where the defense is like, I don't know what the hell was supposed to do. Yeah, like, who am I supposed to guard here? And in that gap, the buck's got a lot of really good offense. I guess the question is going forward, is this formula repeatable for the book? So clearly Middleton had just an all-time, just probably for him career night.

Janice was still effective despite all the crowd and that we're talking about. I am looking around though. I'm not seeing much else. Holiday in particular is the one that stands out. Not to just knock him after we just praise their defensive effort. And he's obviously a huge part of that,

getting into everybody's airspace, but four for 20, over five from three. He's out there, like, acting like he's Jeff Teague on offense. And I'm talking about Jeff Teague today, not Jeff Teague 10 years ago when he was playing for Bud on the Hawks. Like, can they survive holiday playing like this? I feel like I'm asking this every time we do one of these podcasts, but like, can they survive

this? Justin is as otherworldly as he was on defense tonight. He was that fucking horrible on offense. Like, you just said the numbers. Four for 20. And again, some of this stuff is just bad. decision making. You're just taking shots that you know you're not really good at making, right? Like, you're just taking awful shots early in the possession. There was a play very

early on in the court, like in the first quarter. He caught the ball right underneath the basket. And I don't even think he came down with it. He just threw it back out to the three-point land. And I was like, is this kid fucking serious? Like, you have to be able to make layups true holiday. And, you know, the best things that we saw was when he was like, all right, I got Chris Paul on me, I got campaign on me. I'm forcing my way to the lane. That's, that's his only reliable offense at this point. We know, God knows, is not his step back where he thinks he's James Harding or Steph Curry. Like, that's, he needs to cut that completely out of his diet. But he, and he's missing guys on the short role. He's just, he's just bad on offense right now.

Yeah, not hitting shots, not hitting layups. I, will say this for him. I think there are a lot of players who, if they were playing as poorly offensively as he was, their effort would have wavered, their focus would have wavered on defense. They don't come up with that rebound he does at the very end of this game, one-armed, holding dudes off. That's something that, let's say, previous Bucks point guards might have kind of checked out of the game if they had been playing like that on offense.

That to me is the difference. You're talking about Brandon Jennings? Bucks and six. Bucks and six, baby. Yeah, no, he made, he made Devin'Bucson. look like Tony Allen tonight, you know, which is appropriate because right before we got on here, we were talking about Drew looking like Tony Allen on offense. So it all goes hand in hand. I don't know what you could do at this point. You need him to be a huge part of your offense.

He's just not giving it to you there. Like, PJ Tucker, oh for one. He took one shot in his entire game, which is impossible considering he played 29 minutes. They did go to Pat Conninton a little bit more in this game, which I thought was a nice little wrinkle. But I guess this is just, what they'll have to live with. I did want to talk about Booker, though, because he had an incredible night. And my thing is, like, he pretty much became Kobe. I know he's going through this whole, like, writing Be Legendary on his shoes, and they mention it 30 times during a broadcast. Yeah, he will not stop bringing up that man's name. Right. But I have to say, his shot selection was Kobe-esque, where he was just getting the ball, he's going to shoot it no

matter what and he was just hitting impossible, impossible freaking shots. Is this just if Paul is going to go through these troubles, if Bridges is going to kind of disappear like he did in this night, if you're not going to get anybody else, is this how they're going to have to win Rob? Like, are you going to have to just rely on Booker to be that guy that everyone thinks he is right now? Well, is Kobe-esque shot selection a compliment? It's a little of both, to be frank. I guess when you make them like this, it is. I mean, for me, the thing that was so impressive, about Booker, I was just in awe of the patience he was playing with. Even when he's that hot, he knows exactly how long he needs to wait for the defender who's

like trying to hustle up and catch up to him to basically overshoot it by one step. And then he just rises up and hits that mid-range every time. It's incredible to watch him play in a game like this where everyone else seemed a little bit frazzled, especially in the second half, especially in the fourth quarter. And he was the one guy who seemed to be totally under control when he was playing at all times. But, I mean, you mentioned PJ Tucker a second ago. He might have made the biggest play of the game going in for an offensive rebound, picking up Butler's fifth foul, taking him out of the game at a time when,

I mean, frankly, the Bucks didn't really have a lot of answers right to deal with Devin Boker then. Yeah, and what was cool is that Devin Bucker was aggressive. But, like, generally we think of players being aggressive as getting to the foul line, getting to the basket, getting layups, right? Forcing their will upon the guy who's defending him. Devin Bougar was being aggressive at hunting mid-range jumpers, but those are great shots for him. A lot of them were.

Some of them were just legitimate, great defense. Just he had better offense tonight than some great defensive possessions, particularly by guys like Pat Conninton who were draped all over this dude, right? But I like the fact that he was aggressive in hunting those shots. It was no hesitation. It was like, all right, if I get daylight from 16 feet, I'm firing every single time because those are shots that I'm really good at. And those are the shots that are basically going to become available to me.

I just thought it was incredible. See, it was incredible shot making. Yeah, you could say it was Kobe-esque shot selection. But, man, you know, the efficiency at one point he was, I think, what, was he 17 of 24, 18 of 24, something ridiculous like that? That was, you know, all on jump shots. 17 for 28 you finished. Didn't even hit a three.

That's how crazy it is. It was amazing. I, you know, tip your cap to Devin Booker. I thought in the third quarter, the Bucks would have been kind of took a commanding lead in that thing if it wasn't for Buckech just going insane and dropping 20 on his own. It was crazy. It was amazing to watch.

I love D. Book. Well, and for Monty getting him back in the game after he picked up that flydoll. You got to do it. Like, you got to let him roll. You got to trust your guy. And it really paid off for them in the sense that they were able to keep the game close. I actually thought in the previous game not getting 80s. and sooner because he had those

falls on him was a mistake and I'm glad he didn't be over conservative in this one. And guess who ended up not filing out of the game? Yes, exactly. Especially when you were gifted from the gods, from the refereeing gods, from that control booth

in C caucus. Just a free pass on it was Drew Holiday, right? Who he completely manhandled not only like just like slapped down on him, but with his other arm just like gave him a nice little bear hug. If you are watching this on video,

you could see me giving a bear hug on my screen right now. There's no way that that was not his six file, right? Yeah, that was his six. And I think he got his seventh on Middleton shortly afterwards in transition. So, I mean, really history being made in this game, I think the first player to ever score in an NBA game after, after fouling out, congrats seven. Yeah, the Drew Holiday wasn't sometimes.

of verticality where he might have grazed the guy's arm or, you know, verticality where he gets up early on the guy, into the guy's body and therefore affects his angle and his shot. No, he, he filed him going up low, like around his waist. He fouled him on the freaking arm. He fouled him as they were up in the air. He basically had his arm around his waist as if he was his girlfriend.

He just felt, he felt him three different times on that play. And to the point where it almost looked like that intentional foul like, oh, I'm wrapping them up type of not trying to give up a layup type of thing. And the refs just said, go ahead. Luckily, Janus was hustling because Janus is Janus. And they scored anyway, but that was insane to see.

Yeah, I mean, I won't try to rationalize it, but can I just play devil's advocate for all of us? Was the game not more exciting with him out there? Yes, of course. 100%. I feel like I'm always of two minds when these things pop up. Like, on the one hand, you need to follow the fucking rules, especially when everyone else has to play by them. On the other hand, I kind of want to see Stars go against Stars.

So, like, I think you should have been called for the follow, but I'm also glad that we got the outcome that we did. The game was more exciting for everybody except for Bucks fans and people who bet on the Bucks tonight. Yeah. Have you guys seen Goodfellas? What kind of question? I don't know, man. You know where we work, right? I know the scene where he's in prison

and like his wife is yelling at him Karen's yelling at him and like the guard just looks the other way as she's throwing like pills and whatnot that was the rest it's everything that I kept thinking about during that one what else from this game? Is there anything else you want to talk about Rob? Are we missing anything?

Was. Campaign of it all. If there were a freaking God in heaven in Milwaukee Bucks Heaven, the Bucks would be attacking this dude more. He is so frail. He is such a liability. And God bless him, he's a good effort, God.

But there's not a lot he can do when Drew Holiday gets the ball against him eight feet from the basket. When Chris Middleton gets the ball from him eight feet from the basket, when Yonis gets it like, they are so much huger than these guys. The fact that they don't attack this dude

relentlessly, the way, say, I don't know, when Bobby Portis is in the, game, the sons are like, hold on, hold on, let's get Bobby Portis involved in every single freaking action on this play because he's their worst defender right now. If the Bucks, for the love of God, don't freaking attack this dude, that's something that has. Because when they did, it was very fruitful. It's pretty telling that, I mean, the Bucks basically don't play Bryn Forbes anymore for exactly this reason. They just can't afford to put him on the floor and you

can get 17 break-even minutes out of campaign. That's not a great look if you're the Bucks. But I think it, their offense overall, which is kind of in a weird state in the half court, which is something that happens to them, obviously, on a pretty frequent basis. But I still don't understand why Janus didn't get more shots in this game. It just seemed like they denied it from him enough. Like, it seems like Janus is at his best, as we talked about it time and time again with a head of steam. And it seemed like that was their main focus.

Jay Crowder in particular, I mentioned this already. But he was almost like a heat-seeking missile on defense, just finding Janus, especially when he had the ball and making sure. he didn't get into the restricted zone with just any room to go. I mean, it's certainly not a coincidence that we saw so many Drew Holiday layup attempts because that's indicative of them overplaying Janus in the pick and roll, edging toward him more than anything. So I get some of that.

I get that they were trying to set up more of a wall. I get that Aiden obviously wasn't in foul trouble, so he's able to be more of a deterrent in this game. But just given how dominant Janus was over the last two, I was just a little surprised. We didn't just see them trying to go to him more deliberately. especially when the offense wasn't really working, especially in those stretches where Holiday was a little bit off his rocker.

Luckily, Middleton was able to step in in those moments and kind of stabilize them. But Janus can do some of that too. It doesn't have to be the top of the floor, Janus, attacking a guy. There's a lot of creative ways that they usually get him involved on the wing for Dukkins and stuff like that. That thought could have been more viable for them if they had gone to it. Or Rob, how about this? Just run a pick and roll.

Run a pick and roll. How about you can run a pick and roll where Janus is the ball handler, running pick and roll with, I don't know, Janice set in the street. They did none of that in the first quarter. Janice was kind of tentative attacking in transition. One, two, it was a very slowly paced first quarter, but they weren't playing that great of defense. So they weren't able to just, you know, straight up attack the way that they were in the previous game.

I think they just like run a pick and roll, get Janice going on the move, allow him to do his thing. A lot of times they're not even running anything, guys. They're just out there hooping. And yet the series is tied to too, too. It's the craziest thing. It really looked like they played the first quarter as if they were trying to save Janus for the second half.

Like they were deliberately going away from him because they thought they were going to have to ride him down the stretch and then they just didn't write him down the stretch. I will say 26 points, 14 rebounds, eight assists, three steals, two blocks. I mean, he was awesome. Turnover. for 19 from the field.

Like the opportunities that he did get, he completely took advantage of. And so, yeah, you're right. Maybe he should get involved a little bit more. But like, he did his job. I'll say that. And let's say it one more time, an all-time playoff block.

All-time playoff block. Like, that was up there with the two LeBron blocks, the one on Tiago Splitter, which was amazing. Forgot about that one. And the one on obviously Andre Agadala.

That was right there. Obviously the Igadala was game seven. with like, you know, two minutes to go. So it was insane. But this was shit, man. If the bucks don't win this game, the series is kind of over. Yeah, this was effectively their game seven a little bit.

Yep. Right. Well, that brings us to a question from one Evan Turner. I guess we have the villain in the chat room. Where is Janus ranked for all-time defenders? That's a tough one, you know, all-time. Big question. Let's do in the league.

Is he the best defender in the league right now? Nah, that's AD. to me. To me, it's Anthony Davis. Just what he's able to do one-on-one against little guys, like, still be effective against any wing. Like, he was guarding James Harden last year. He's guarding Jimmy Butler. He was guarding the best wings in the NBA for, like, long periods of time on possessions, right? Not like at the end of the shot clock with four seconds to go. He switched on guys. He was guarding those guys at times. Whenever he was at the five and they were doing a heavy switching thing. And of course, he erases everything at the rim, too. I still think AD is number

one. But when Yonis is able to do his sort of, you know, vulture, help side defense where, like, he's able to, you know, show and then recover and do all of that, he's incredible. I don't know that he's the one-on-one guy that AD is, though. But he's incredible. I just think AD is the best. Yeah, it was telling in this game that, as Waz said, when Jimmy Butler gets going, you can put AD on him. there was never talk of like, oh, why don't we put Yannis on Devin Booker? Like, that's not a thing you do. Charks would.

If Charks was here right now, he would be talking about that because that was his big adjustment for the Bucks last year. Well, yeah, I mean, that situation was probably a little bit different, but I will say this in kind of an underrated part

about Janus' defense. It's not only is he given you the incredible helpside defense blowing up that lob to Aiton, but there was no doubt whenever the Sons missed a shot that the Bucks were getting the defensive rebound. And I know that they're kind of a bigger team across the board,

but they were just sealing up possessions. And a lot of them were him sprinting it out of position to clear guys out and grab those things and go the other way. So huge part of his defensive game that I think is easy to gloss over just because the rest of it is, I mean, I'm not going to say sexier because we're talking about defense, but you know what I mean. We're after dark here, Rob. Just let your hair down, man. Spice. All right. So we talked a lot about the bucks in like potential things that they could do in this next game. What about the Sons? Heineken believes you could twist any situation into something positive. You just need a fresh take. So here are some fresh takes from game four of the NBA finals.

Was, what's your fresh take on one Devin Booker? Stop killing these guys after one bad game. Booker was horrible in game three. Doesn't mean that he was a horrible player, that he couldn't step up to the moment or that he was shook. He had a bad game. He comes out in game four and was one of the best finals performance. I've ever seen, albeit in a loss. So my thing is, watch these guys from game to game. Great players are going to find a way to step up. Devin Booker did that tonight.

And, you know, I think you're going to see that from other guys, too. Yeah, it's not like the Bucks went into their film session after game three and said, oh, we can let up off Devin Booker. And that's why he dropped 42 on him. They were draped all over him, giving him all the respect in the world because he can bounce back with that game because great players can. That's why I don't think they can write off the idea that Chris Paul could come back with a game like that in game five, for example,

or on the buck side of it, the Drew Holiday could have a game like that. You can't give any guy an opportunity when the stakes are this big. Drew Holiday, maybe not. Yeah, I was just going to say, I have a fresh take. Drew Holiday, I think we have the book on him

at this point, no pun intended. But get out there and find your own fresh takes. What a transition. Grab a pack of Heineken from your local retailer or have one delivered right to your door. Must be 21 years of age to purchase. Cheers, guys. Cheers.

Whoa. Are there any obvious adjustments that they could make, or is this really going to come down to CP figuring things out, or maybe, as Rob suggests, like, playing through whatever injury or getting, you know in soccer where they have that, that thing they spray on every injury, maybe needs, like, just a few of those cans and it'll be good. I think defensively, their sound, they're getting, for the most part, the shots that you kind of want to give up.

Like, you got to live with Conantton taking contested threes, right? Like, you got to live with most of the, like, they didn't get crushed by Yannis in transition. He didn't just live in the paint against them today the way he did in game three. So I think they got, you know, you got, you turn Middleton into a long two-point jump shooter. You're optimizing your defensive possessions when you're doing that. I think offensively, they got to figure out some ways to free Chris Paul up because it's not going to. Because he's their only on ball guy that you can actually count on as far as creating a shot for himself in a one-on-one or a pick-and-roll situation. So they got to get a little bit more creative about how they're going to free him up.

But other than that, I think they're doing what they can't. They really have to do better in the possession game because, I mean, let's look at the bottom lines for this one. The Bucks took 19 more shots from the field. Wow. And they took 10 more free throws in this game. Lord have mercy. So, I mean, when you get, you know, one team gets three times as many offensive rebounds as the other and is winning the turnover battle. That's just not a sustainable formula.

So I know you're playing undersized. You got to find some way to be a little more competitive on the glass. You got to find some way to protect the ball a little bit better. And that that starts as we've hit with Chris Paul. Yeah. Well, I will say this. I know this playoffs has been a DeAndre Atene in Love Fest. Like we brought up like how he's the pride of the Bahamas so much that Buddy Heald is starting to get jealous.

I do wonder if this is where his age is starting to show and putting him into the box that he's been so successful at, playing off of Chris Paul, doing the dirty work, rolling very hard to the rim, all that stuff. I do wonder if he did have more of a step-out game, if he were able to shoot those mid-range jumpers that sometimes get him into trouble because he falls in love with him. If he did have a three-point shot, I wonder if he had something else to throw out there. And I guess this this includes other guys like Bridges and Crowder, too. if they could do anything else and create a little bit more, it seems like that's what they need. No, am I wrong?

Well, I do feel like you got that game from Cam Johnson. Like, he had that kind of game. Yes. But it's hard to, like, look at the suns and say,

oh, my God, you really blew this part of it because they really were like one stop away from winning this game. Yeah, and I think Aiton is playing like his age, right?

Like, he doesn't have that sophisticated of a game right now. He doesn't have counters, et cetera, etc. But he's, you know, optimizing all of his actual tools. He's catching every ball when they throw it to him, like when Yannis isn't blocking it, you know, but like when he, like he had, he caught the ball one time. He was sandwiched in between the two defenders. He gets, he grabs it and just softly lays it in. Like, that's a very tough pass to make. That's a tough catch. That's a tough

finish. When the opportunities are presenting themselves, he's doing what he has to do. Like, yes, it would be, very helpful if he could step out to three and knock down a few, you know, open threes. But I think right now you can't say he's anything but a plus for what they're doing specifically as it pertains to garden Janus and just the paint. Just being a deterrent just generally

in the pain. You got to love what he's bringing to the table. Yeah, he's awesome at being huge. Which is overly simplistic, I know, but like there are a lot of big men. You can't say that about it. Like, also if the son's had a second one of them. Have you ever seen Jalilil Oka for trying to play defense? You mean the pride of

Team Nigeria? Yeah. All right. We're going to do just one last thing on this finals game. My favorite segment, the one that everyone loves to answer, who is the playoff MVP right now.

Rob, you're so excited. I could tell who's on the top of your game for ballot. Can someone, someone show me how to leave this green room real quick? You can get IT in here? You're starting.

I mean, how could you not pick Janus? Yeah. Do you guys remember a couple weeks ago when we thought he might have a season-ending injury? Yes, I do. Oh, Dr. Ruiz, definitely does. I will know. I did not. It's true.

It's true. I was the only person saying not only he's going to come back, he's going to be fine. Yeah. Yeah, to me, it's got to be honest. Like, even, because you just mentioned it, JV. It's like, oh, he didn't score 40 again. He didn't do 40 and 10 again. Oh, all he did was damn near do 30 and 12.

Like, you know, like, even when he's not otherworldly, he's excellent. Every single freaking night out. We're at the point now where he's excellent every single game in the biggest games, in the biggest spots. Like, you know, I got to give it to Janus. Well, that's actually a good point, though. Like, what happened with Janus? Because I think last series, in the series before that, like, we were saying,

What is wrong with this guy? Have they figured him out? We know what happened. We know what happened. James Hardin was injured, so it was Kyrie. So he was able to work out the kinks. That's what happened. He was able to get the reps.

He got the reps because they ran into a Brooklyn team that was injured. That team was even 20% more healthy. They would have beat this team, you know, and it would have been a long offseason of us wondering about Janus. But he got the reps. He got to play in these big ass games. and he got to show out every single time. And he's proven himself.

Like to the point where I'm just like, I come away from this playoffs so utterly impressed because, again, there are things that he was failing at that he just straight up said, no, I'm going to do this now. And I'm just going to completely be, always be the most effective version of myself, although I didn't need that air ball three point pull up.

And I didn't need you following it up with another three point pull up. But again, like, for the most part, man, And he is doing everything that he can when he can do it. And it's shown. But I think it's just the reps. It's the reps. And the timing is everything.

Because if they play the Nets next year, this more confident version of Yon is a more formidable matchup for them. But the way he's been able to do all of this without forcing things, without trying to be someone he's not, it's really impressive. And really the trust he's shown in his teammates in a lot of really key spots, I think, is just a sign of a really mature player. find someone in your life that you trust like Janus trust Pat Connettin is what I'm trying to tell you. Are you trying to tell me, Rob, that I'm your Pat Connoisse.

Always. Well, I will say, like, I would have expected him to struggle more in this series than he did against the Nets, just because of, like, the Nets defense is just paper, you know, it's Blake Griffin, as opposed to DeAndre Aiton. Like, I almost wonder if playing a more traditional center has almost unlocked him and almost forced him to be a big. Like he's not taking any threes. And you would have expected that to come up earlier on

because he would have had more just room in the pain to run. So I'm a little bit surprised that it's coming now. I'm thrilled that it's coming now. Yeah, but again, Justin, he's not playing the way he was playing in Brooklyn. Remember how many times he would feel like, I'm the man. I got an ISO on Brooke Lopez. I got to do this 101. Got to do this by myself.

He cut that out. He's finally cut that out. He's finally been like, how best do we put pressure on the defense? And how we do it is not be isolating D'Andre Aiton from 30 feet. That's not good Bucks basketball. He's figured out like, no, as much as my ego. And, you know, I think I was listening to Arniewicz on low post. And he was like, yo, it's not easy telling your MVP to stop trying to be James Hardin on the perimeter.

Right, like that's a tough conversation to have, but whoever had it or however he came to understand that he's not that guy, he's realized it. Like, I attack and transition. I set amazing screens. I catch everything. I get the offensive rebounds. Like, now he's just looking like a fucking a monster. And you would expect after the injury, too, he would have taken a little bit more easily. But now he's like getting checked out two minutes into the game because he's just so hype, which is wild.

and it's actually kind of an adorable thing that keeps happening. Let's move on here, because we have some off-season stuff that's been percolated in the background, and I'm thrilled. I love a good rumor-monger season, but first we have some actual news here. Turns out, Kauai Leonard has a partial tear

in his right ACL. I'm surprised they even said something because they kept it from us for so long. Yeah, you wouldn't mean to suggest that the clippers were less than forthcoming, with the health of their players, would you? No, not the Clippers. They're the most transparent team in the NBA.

Right, not Steve Balmer, who pays tons and taxes every year, would never try to get anything over on the public. So Jeff Stott's, who does a great job on street clothes, both on website and on Twitter. I think I got some breaking news, guys. Okay. Our colleague, Paolo, just got engaged.

Congrats. Congratulations to the brother Paolo on his engagement, man. Congrats to follow. I just, I just peep that on Instagram. Congrats, my brother. The office season already done. Easily. Congrats.

He's going to Phoenix tomorrow. So this celebration is going to be over very quickly there. That's great. Congrats, Paula. I guess, Kauai Leonard now. Let's talk about someone who isn't getting engaged here. So I was saying, Jeff Stott's in street clothes, he brings up that Thomas Bryant and Spencer Dinwiddie both had partial tears, other ACL during the season.

season. They both missed 60 plus games and that didn't winnie wasn't cleared until six months for basketball activity. So that's probably what you're looking at for Kauai, which means maybe we'll see him the top of next year. If we're lucky, considering all the load management, maybe not. Maybe we won't see him until next playoffs. I guess my question was, is if you're Kauai, does this change your thinking at all in terms of do you opt into your contract for next season? do you opt out and maybe survey the landscape? Do you even try to go somewhere else, KD style, or do you just run it back with the Clippers?

Look, if there's any indication from previously how the Clippers have handled anything with Kauai, they're going to do whatever the hell he wants. And if what he wants is to do the opt-in and then get his $250 million after next season, then that's what they're going to do, right? I think there's just an understanding between the two sides. I don't know if I don't know if the plan was to always sign the max five-year extension this off-season.

And so that's what they'll probably end up doing. But like they're going to do whatever the hell it is, Kauai tells them he wants them to do. But if I was Kauai, yeah, I'd be like I'm going to opt in, not play a single game next season. And then I'm going to sign for the max after that. The full max. Here's where the math breaks down. he has a $36 million player option for next season. He does not have full bird rights with the clippers right now.

Oh, wow. Because he only has two years. He has early bird rights. So this is from Bobby Marks. The more prudent route, even before this injury, was for him to opt in, establish bird rights and then sign an extension for four years, 181 million. If he declines his player option, he can only sign a four-year, $176 million option. And so the bonus comes on the back end.

It's only, I think, what, only a couple million dollars difference, but he gets that extra big fifth year if he does do that. So that's the math. But it's still like, I mean, this is a guy who doesn't really follow logic most of the time. He just kind of does what he does. He just wants to hang out in San Diego and that's where he's going. So there is that part of it. Rob, like if you're the clippers right now, are you feeling better about getting him back?

because on the one hand, maybe this ensures that he's coming back, but on the other hand, that means he's coming back, but you might not see him for a very long time. Yeah, I mean, I don't think you're feeling great about anything.

You know, as you mentioned, he's probably six months away from playing NBA basketball again. He's likely even longer from playing great NBA basketball again. How many players on your current roster are even going to be under contract in that time

are still going to be on this team when Kauai is Kauai again? That's a worrisome proposition, especially as Waz outlined, you're kind of beholden to whatever it is he wants to do. That's kind of the position you put yourself in, given all the draft capital, you send out to make this team possible. Now you're just kind of doing, you're letting Kauai dictate what this team is going to look like. And unfortunately, now his injury is going to

dictate what the team is going to look like. It's not a lot of power to have if you're an NBA front office right now. Yeah. And this is kind of the bargain you make with Kauai when you signed that contract with them for only, what was it, two years, two plus one. It's just like you kind of have to bring them back. And it must be like the shittiest position. I like, I know all the reasons that the clippers did this. Like, they're better off for in the immediate. We'll see about in the future. But it must just suck to work there for the past like two, three years and just have everything be dictated by this morose guy who won't talk to you. Well, look, here's the thing. I, I would disagree and push back only in a sense of this. When they did what they did in 2019,

everybody to a man thought it was genius. They thought it was a coup. They stepped on the Lakers neck. The Lakers had to settle for Rondo and Danny Green and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It was the greatest thing that a single team had ever done in an offseason. As far as what the reaction was, this was universally what the opinion was. So they went out and did what was universally accepted as the best move. Not only getting him but trading for Paul George, giving away Shea and

all the picks and all of that. Like at the time, I know with hindsight is 50-50, and we could, you know, we could say that, damn, this is kind of a bummer,

but at the time, they got all the credit for it. Everybody thought this was a great thing. I do think opinions were mixed, especially in the clippers. On the Clippers? In the Clippers? In 2019?

Oh, internally. Yeah, I think there were some dissenting opinions. I think, I don't think they, like, happily just, like, pushed all their chips in.

It was more like a, I guess. because they did give away absolutely everything. And like, even though Kauai is as good as he is, I think you do that for any player. You're feeling a little queasy even though you know, like, the odds are that this is probably the best move. That's all.

That's all the same. But it does make things complicated this summer. Like, you're already starting to hear buzz on Lonzo Ball. I think Shams reported that the clippers and the bulls are interested in him. I don't know how the clippers get involved there. It would have to be a sign-in trade. and I don't know what the Pelicans would want in return. And I think if you sign and trade...

And they want Luke Conard. Well, honestly, that's probably the only thing that they really have in order to entice it to you like the Pelicans are based on younger players. And then like if you sign and trade someone, then you're hard capped and I don't know how they fit all those salaries in. But I will say like things are, this is pretty much 13. And I don't know. Like, how are we feeling about that coming off of this postseason where I think that

they acquitted themselves, but there's still some things that you have to be worried about. I mean, look, if I'm watching the NBA finals tonight and I got what I got on my team and I can bring Kauai back and I know we lose a year, I'm fine with it. I don't look at the landscape in the West or even, you know, the Nets with the situation out there. I don't know if you see Matt Sullivan doing interviews for his book, but that thing is, Lord have mercy. I don't know how you see any of that and feel like you are so far from the mountaintop. I don't see how you watch this Sun's team and think, I can't be better than that when my guys finally come back.

If we could just get them piece together, taped together, you know, like an old Buick. You know, you ever see one of those cars where the rear window joint is taped with, like, the great construction. I've seen two of them today. If I could just get that to my destination, which is the finals, why can't I be the sons or the bucks? Why can't I be one of those teams? That's how I would feel if I would have. I just want to say, I mean, we just had a great game for the NBA finals. And Justin's just trying to casually float like Lonzo Ball trade rumors here in this podcast.

Like that's what we're talking about. Come on. This is what everyone actually wants to talk about. You go on Reddit NBA right now. it is 95% rumors about the seventh man on the Lakers. Like, this is what 90% of the audience actually cares about. Well, first of all, I would never go on Reddit NBA. That was your first mistake.

Right, right. No, well, I will say this. In the Clippers defense, I do think other teams in the West have some issues in front of. The Lakers chief among them, like another rumor, Rob that is circulating, according to Mark Stein, is like they are also interested in Lanzo here. they want to bring them back. But like, again, I don't know how they replace anyone because they needed Dennis Schroeder approximation.

The first one didn't work out so well. But they have a lot of holes to fill. And I think they're going to face more questions with their roster than a team like the Clippers. So that's just the counterpoint. Okay. Well, Rob, you're going to love this next segment because we're going to talk about Ben Simmons.

Also, our guy is in the news here. Shams is reporting that the Sixers want an all-star caliber player, in your quotes, and Mark Stein has Cleveland, Indiana, Minnesota, and Sacramento as known suitors. Toronto is also said to express interest, more will emerge. So here's what I did for you guys. So these are the teams in the mix, reportedly. I came up with the best possible offer for each of them, and I want to get your opinions on them, starting with the Sacramento. Sacramento Kings. So this is a tough one because I don't think the Sixers would be on the table. De Aaron Fox would have to be on the table, I think. I think it would have to be Simmons for Fox.

Was, you are the Sacramento Kings GM, Monty McNair. What do you say to that? I think in a vacuum, I don't see how you can argue that Ben Simmons hasn't been a better player than Deeran Fox in his career. That's that's inarguable But I mean Is Deeran Fox in the context of the Sixers Not a better player? I think so I think he's a better player than Ben Simmons In that specific context

Because you know a guy who's not afraid to go to the rack Not afraid to take an open jump shot Again he's his his playmaking has been disappointing not gonna lie at times He's been disappointed but I've you know I'm a D Aaron Fox a bit of a Deeran Fox Truther because I've seen him at Staples twice against the Clippers, and he was just unreal. Like, nobody on the team could stay in front of him, and he had probably some of the best

games of his life at Staples. So, you know, I probably think more highly of him than most people do, but I don't know. I don't know how high they still are in Sacramento. If I'm the Sixers, if I get De Aaron Fox or Ben Simmons, of course I'm doing it. Of course I'm doing it. This is such an interesting case study in the idea of like, what if Ben Simmons was willing to shoot threes, but was just like a 31% three-point shooter? Because that's kind of what you're getting. Exactly.

I don't love the prospect of a Joel Embed post-up and Deere and Fox waiting on the perimeter one or two passes away. I don't love that. So I don't know. I mean, it depends on how robust the market really is versus how much of this stuff is just kind of, let's try to create enough smoke to amplify Ben Simmons trade value. Wait, so you're saying the Sixers wouldn't be interested in that.

I'm saying there's a possibility they would wait and see what else is out there. I don't think it's a perfect. I mean, it's not a perfect fit. Right. Well, I got to tell you, based on the reports we're getting and just like what we know about Ben Simmons as a player at this point, I don't know if they're getting much better than Deer and Fox. Like, I thought Fox was a reach based on like the type of other guys.

guys that you're probably thrown out there at this point. He might be based on how valuable he is to the Kings. But Simmons is, again, we know what his playoff faults are, and they're pretty clear. They're very well articulated. He's had a whole arc of playoff disappointment at this point. But you watch a game like this finals game, and you're telling me he couldn't do some of what Drew Holiday did in this game to like meaningfully impact it even while not really contributing that much offensively.

Are you saying Ben Simmons? Yeah. I'm saying he can have that kind of impact on a game. Sure. Ben, he would shoot the, he, Drew would shoot the threes is the problem. Maybe you wouldn't want him to, but at least he would actually do it. If you want Ben Simmons to go 0 for five from three like Drew did in this game, I think he could oblige. But again, the thing about this playoffs is, is not the theoretical Ben Simmons.

It's like what he actually did, right? He averaged 11 drives a game this season. My man, Sammis Fendiari tweeted this. 10 drives a game the season before. He averaged five. in the playoffs. He's just not the player that people have conceived and envisioned him to be in the play.

He hasn't done it. Sure, maybe he'll come into next playoffs and he'll be rejuvenated and he will have found a way to, like, exercise the demons, right? Or maybe they probably got some exorcists in Australia or something. You know, who knows, right? But the guy that I watched, nah, he's not having Drew Holiday impact on the game.

Yeah, I think if you can get Fox, I honestly think that's a boon. Like, I think this guy is like John Wall part two. And if you can get that for a guy who is scared to dunk, like you take it 10 times out 10. That's my thought. I think my underlying notion is not that Fox is a bad return or a player you don't want. It's that you get one shot at this. You get basically one shot to convert Joelle and Beads, like, key years here.

And if you want to put that on Fox, I understand why, but I would hear, I just want to hear the rest of the beautiful offers you've created for, Justin, that's all I'm saying. I have to say, if you didn't like that one, you're not going to like these next few. Oh, boy. Let's go to Indiana. We're just a surprise one. I didn't expect them to be in the mix here.

I put together Malcolm Brogden and T.J. Warren for one, Ben Simmons. Because if you're looking for return here, if you're Philly, you want a more traditional point. card. You want someone who could shoot, God forbid. I think Warren, if the bubble was close to what you're getting from him now as like a wing shooter, like you're getting two capable wings.

And Brogden, when healthy, which is a big concern when you have a team based around Joel and Bede, when healthy, he's just as good as what? A lot of fringe all-star point cards in the league. It's not bad.

But, Wads, you don't seem convinced. I mean, in that instance, you're doing wing creation by committee between three guys, between Warren, Tobias Harris, and Brogden, who I think when we think of them being their optimal selves, that's pretty good to surround Joellen. Like, that's actually excellent to surround Joelle and Bede with. But I just think in a playoff setting, when these plays are, possessions bogged down and I'm relying upon T.J. Warren has set me up or, and Prattie's actually been pretty decent in big spots before. It's not like he's been horrible at it. I just,

I just, I don't know, I'm kind of a, like I said, a Deeran Fox truth. And since I have a lot of, uh, I got a lot of hope in how dynamic he can be as a playmaker. And I don't think, I think his ceiling to me still feels a lot higher than those three guys. that we just mentioned as a perimeter guy that, you know, one-on-one that people can't deal with. Yeah, my estimation of the Fox deal is already growing after hearing option number two. Although there would be something entertaining about after a season in which Doc Rivers was clearly not entertained by Tobias Harris going one-on-one off the dribble and trying to create, having to watch, you know, basically his younger brother, T.J. Warren, come in and also do the same

thing. Yeah. I mean, this is the issue with any Ben Simmons trade. I mean, we went through this a couple episodes ago, which team is giving up an all-star caliber player in their quotes for Ben Simmons at this point when his value is presumably the lowest it's been ever.

To think they were a hair away from getting James Hardin for this kid. I know. We didn't even get to the Indiana side of this which is Ben Simmons and Domas Sabonis do not work together at all. Right. You'd have to find somewhere for Miles Turner too because then you'd probably have to

a way to play all three. Somebody please get Miles Turner out of there, please, man. I really want him to play for a team that actually cares about what he brings to the table, man. I really would like to see somebody actually trade for him this summer. He should have been out of there last summer, but teams thought it was more prudent to go out and get people like Stephen Adams instead. He should be in New Orleans.

Yes. I had no idea why he's not there already. Or Boston. Either of those teams he would have been a perfect fit on. All right. Minnesota, another bad one. I'm sorry. DeAngel Russell and Malique Beasley for Simmons and George Hill.

I don't hate it. Oh, interesting. I don't hate it either because guess what? I have my perimeter creator in the young boy, right? And what I really like about it is the same reason that it works for the young boy is he doesn't have a jump shot yet, but Cat is so incredible a jump shooter that that creates space in the pick and roll for him. Like, even when guys want to go under

or they want to do silly type of coverages, the fact that Cat is so effective at popping, that allows him the airspace to get ahead of steam and create something because of Kat's threat. I think that would have the same, you know, effect on a Ben Simmons and Cat pick and roll. I think a shooting big man is the answer. to these cats that can't shoot worth a lick.

It's these elite shooting big men on picket pops. So I like that a lot. And I like the dynamism of those two level of athletes with Simmons and Edwards. Yeah, I'm very into it for Minnesota. The question for me is if I'm Philly, you're putting an awful lot of pressure at that point on Joelle and B to anchor your defense.

When you got Russell, you got Harris, you got presumably Seth Curry still out there. all of a sudden, Danny Green and Joel Embed are your last hopes, or I guess Matisse Thiebill, if you want to start him, however you want to manage it, compounded with the fact that DeAngel Russell, not historically the healthiest guy in terms of his injury record. Right. Not healthy and also not all that effective historically. Oh, there's that problem, too. I mean, that's the biggest question. I find that I am often a Russell apologist.

I think he will just make a ton of mistakes, but I also think he'll do things that other guys just can't. And those often just stand out to me more than some of the flaws there, especially on the defensive end. Robert, remind me, are you a Russell optimist? Not really at all. But I think what could give him a chance there in that kind of situation is he doesn't rely on like hard drives to the rim or explosive athleticism to create for other people. Like he has pretty good passing vision.

And so I kind of think that in a team that historically has been a little clogged up offensively, he could still find some angles that work. And so between that and his ability to shoot hypothetically, that could be a kind of player who could work off of Embedd pretty well. So I see the outline of what could work there. And I don't want to gloss over Malik Beasley in that, who the more dead-eye shooters you can get around a player like Embed, you know, the better off you're going to be. Right.

Last one is Cleveland. I didn't come up with one because there's just no way. Like there's so much smoke around Collins. Hard pass. Yeah. I just hell out of here. don't see who Philly would be interested in. But I do have one last one I want to throw in there.

If they trade for Colin Sexton, test Darry for crack or Dan Gilbert to see if he got some naked pictures of this dude or something, because that would be insane. We're drug testing GMs out here now. Last one, curveball. Just based on something someone in the chat said, they suggested a three-team deal with Ben Simmons, Joe Harris and Anthony Simons. This is from real name. But I'm taking that and I'm pyramiding off of that to include the Brooklyn Nets.

What if it was Ben Simmons for Kyrie Irving? Did I just blow your fucking mind right now? You kind of did. That would be a great trade, obviously, for the Sixers because Kyrie gives them everything that they are lacking right now. Like, straight up, a hub on a... offense in big possessions when you can't get the ball to Joel because we know how hard it is to get the ball to the non-ball handlers in big clutch possessions.

Like exactly what Middleton was able to create today in the mid-range on these spread picking rolls with Janus. That's the same thing Kyrie could do with Joel, who's both. And it's even more dynamic because he's a pick and pop threat now. And you add that to Kyrie's pull-up ability. That's just, whoa, that's. That is completely deadly. Now, Brooklyn, I don't see how you trade Kyrie Irvin after you've basically sold your

sold to Kevin Duran and you're buying their side pieces, houses in New York, and you basically gave them the keys to the kingdom. I don't know how you do that, but that, man, that would be perfect for Philly. We've been saying for a long time that Ben Simmons could probably play center. Now he's Brooklyn small ball center in this hypothetical. I'm kind of into this more than I thought I would be. Right. Yeah.

I mean, based on current reporting, maybe you just assume that KD is too high to notice or is on Twitter too much. And then you just trade them away. I think it won't happen. It will never happen. But it's a type of thing that I think actually works better for both teams to make this deal. I don't know if I'm Brooklyn that I'm ready to punt on the vision of the thing we haven't even seen in the playoffs.

How do you give up on that? I mean, you know, that's the benefit of being Brooklyn. You don't have to do anything and you're amazing. You're a generational team. Yeah. And the thing is, I think how you give up on it, Rob, is the guy that took off like, you know, seven weeks of PTO this season, right? Like, he had sick leave. He had workmen's comp days.

This dude just straight up did not show up to work, basically, whenever the hell he wanted. And that's unprecedented. Like, and at a certain point, who wants to continue to deal with that? How? How could you be happy dealing with that? That's the only thing that I could envision not working is Kyrie on a quest to, like, sort of find himself as a human being interfering with just the business of running a professional basketball team. So that's the only way I could envision it.

What happened to socialist was? What happened to the man for the working people? Hey, listen, listen, ain't nothing changed on that front. I'm not talking about me. I'm talking about the nets. Listen, those vacation dates roll over. He had a bunch stacked up from the year before. That all comes into play.

Okay. That's it. Rob, did you have fun talking off season? It was a delight. Thank you. I appreciate that. All right. That's it for us this week.

We might be back next week. I guess there might still be a finals game to talk about. But until then, follow along. We'll have more ringer and bay pods this week for Sasha Ashall on production. For Pat Maldowny on the Spotify greenroom for Waz, for Rob, and for me. We'll see you next.