The Ringer NBA Show - The Bucks Tie Their Series and the Suns Sweep! | Post Game

Episode Date: June 14, 2021

Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann sit down to analyze this Sunday's NBA playoff games and preview the week ahead. They begin with the Bucks, who tied their series with the Nets, and how PJ Tucker ended up as the most effective player on the court (01:50). Then they set their sights on one of Monday's games to discuss how the Hawks could possibly improve against the 76ers (19:28). They then move to the Phoenix Suns, who swept the Denver Nuggets, and comment on Nikola Jokic getting ejected from the game after a hard foul (32:36). Finally, they preview the Jazz-Clippers matchup (51:34). Hosts: Kevin O'Connor and J. Kyle Mann Producer: Steve Ahlman Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What if the Len Bias story hosted by Jordan Ritter-Con is the ringer's latest narrative podcast. You can find new episodes every Wednesday on the Book of Basketball 2.0 feed. Here's a quick trailer. You've heard his name, Lynn Bias, 1980s phenom, second pick in the NBA draft. And then, cocaine, tragedy, one of the most shocking deaths in sports history. 35 years later, Bias' legacy is still making an impact. From Spotify and the Ringer podcast network, this is What If, the Lynn Bias story. I'm Jordan Ritter-Conn.

Welcome to the Sunday edition of The Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor and here today, as always, is the ringers J. Kyle, man. What's up, Kyle? Not too much KOC. I've just been, you know, hanging out this weekend, doing some yard work, but watching a lot of good basketball. Really good game tonight. Well, I mean, I would say a good game. All right.

games. Entertaining. Very odd games. We saw Kyrie Irving turn his ankle and leave the arena in a walking boot in the Bucks Nets game earlier. Bucks won that, tied the series two to two. And then in the nightcapper, Yokic, the NBA and MVP got tossed after swiping hard at an inbound ball, a camera and pain hitting him in the face on the way to that ball. Sun swept the nuggets to advance to the Western Conference.

We'll talk about that later. We're going to get started with both series in the Eastern Conference and then discuss the West. So, Kyle, let's start with the bucks and nets. Now it's tied up two to two after Milwaukee won game seven, 107.96. Yonnas had 34 points, but I thought Big Was said it best on Twitter. PJ Tucker gets the game ball because of his defense on Kevin Durant, who had 28 points, but it came on 25 shots. And during the game, Kyrie Irving turned his ankle.

And according to Rachel Nichols, Irving left the building using crutches with his right ankle and a walking boot. We don't have word on any potential of our turn. Steve Nash and say much after the game, but that is obviously not a good sign, nor do we have any news on James Hardin status for the rest of the series. So that brings me to this thought, Kyle. With KD as a solo show in Game 4, we saw the Bucks do a pretty good job of him.

What did Milwaukee do that was so effective against him? I think with KD, it comes down to he's one of the best shot makers in the history of basketball, bar none, literally a unique entity in the history of the sport. and when he gets to his spots, you can't do anything. I mean, it's over. You know, it's already over. Death from above if Katie gets the ball in his spots.

So what, you know, what he, what some guys have a lot of success. Of course, a lot is a really fuzzy and heavy, heavy quotes thing. If you're going to have any success with Katie, you got stopping from getting there. And that PJ, one of his big advantages is he's positionally really, really clever. He has been. That's what one of the things when he came back over to the NBA when he did back a few years ago, was just hanging his hat on that. So he's a competitor nonstop competing,

and that's what he did throughout this game, is trying to raise the base. I think what he was trying to do was throughout this game, and the last game in the series is raise the baseline of physicality. Like what is going to be the standard? And I think it just kind of dictate

the way it's going to be played so that they don't call absolutely everything, you know? And I think kind of if you're consistently playing physically like that, and then you suddenly, let's say you're not playing physically, and then you suddenly do something physical, you know, it might get officiated differently. So he's kind of trying to do it that way and do it repetitively. So just keeping KD off of his spots.

But you're right. I think I noticed that around, there was a play at 723 in the second quarter where KD caught it in the corner. And this was after several sequences of physical play. And you could see Katie's eyes hesitate for a second. And I thought to myself, that doesn't happen very often because Katie is really,

tough. He hesitated for a second. I think that PJ didn't, I don't think the PJ totally negated him, but PJ definitely made him think, which is a win, you know, for a shot maker like Katie. Yeah, no doubt about it. Making him think he's getting him frustrated. There's multiple occasions during the game where Katie tried to draw a fall, you know, on some three pointers leaning forward, didn't get a whistle. He looks frustrated. Arms up, you know, his agent, Rich Climman's tweeting during the game, PJ Tucker just committed his 13th. The personal fall in the third quarter. Steve Nash after the game said, I thought it was borderline non-basketball physical at times. And obviously, Steve Nash doesn't believe that as a former

NBA player. He's just speaking out loud to get people talking about it, hoping that in game five, the officiating has a tighter whistle that they're calling those fouls and Kevin Durant's living at the free throw line. But it's not just PJ Tucker either. I mean, he individually is doing a sensational job. But I think, you know, watching especially today, this game four, the Bucks did a good job of helping off of some non-shooters, especially Bruce Brown. They had Pat Conantin oftentimes, sagging back away from the three-point line, limiting cutting lanes. We saw ball movement in first two games with Brooklyn, how sharp they were, the crisp actions that they ran all game. They're clogging the paint now and preventing some of those cuts, some of those driving lanes, you know, especially as

Brooke Lopez is also back in the paint dropping and pick and roll. They're doing things slightly differently on the defensive end of the floor. And now for Brooklyn, they're in a position where, look, we don't have the news yet. In all likelihood, they're not going to have Kyrie over for game five. The turn angle did not look great. Walking, you know, in a walking boot after the game, those are not good signs for your status in two days. James Hardin, we haven't heard a peep. We don't know anything.

We'll see if he can come back. if Kevin Durant is a solo show again in game five and maybe beyond, do you see any paths for Brooklyn to win this series? If it's just Katie, I mean, everything you just described is what they would be looking at going forward because you're not going to get for a moment there. I think everybody across the basketball world had the thought like,

oh, vintage Blake, maybe a little vintage Blake here. By the way, Blake went into playing the second half. Right, right. That's another element here to talk. hard at some point in the in the second quarter we didn't hear anything i don't believe there's any postgame quotes about him either but didn't see blake in the second half either yeah and he was you know he made a shot early on in the game and then he he tried to dunk on lopez which i thought was pretty

good it was really fun it resembled vaguely the the shape of blake griffin but like the explosiveness and the hype wasn't the same you know it's just kind of it's kind of something it reminds me of when, I don't know, I think I was like, I had just turned like 35, I think, and I tried to jump over a couch. I used to have this thing in our house where I would try to like flat-footed jump over a couch. And I was like, I'm going to do it just to prove myself I could. And I badly sprained my ankle trying to do it. So I don't know. It's just kind of a comparison there. Sometimes you think you got it and you don't. And then you start double second guessing yourself. So yeah, I think that for a second there, I thought maybe Blake would be Blake again. I think

everybody kind of thought that, but he's not the same guy. I think you kind of have to depend on him to pick his spots differently than in the past. He's a lot more of a cerebral kind of high post playmaker. I mean, he's always been a pretty good playmaker, but defensively, you know, his work on Janus is going to be a big factor, too, if he's not able to play. Now, Kyrie went out with 605, I think, in the second. These things, you were talking about that play specifically where KD, I thought, was second-guessing himself. Conantin actually. stole an attempted skip pass there because he was sagging into the passing lane, zoning up. So, yeah, Kyrie not being there, it puts a different load on KD for sure, because KD was really,

really getting nice and healthy off of the imbalance that having two stars creates. And I know that Mark Jackson made that comment about, like, welcome back to how the rest of the NBA lives with one star. that's kind of been a theme of the playoffs that I definitely want to talk with you more about as we go but it's going to be a big challenge because I like Brooklyn, I want to ask you this. You made a comment I think about Brooklyn's role players.

How do you feel about them overall with this kind of stress put on them? I should clarify first. Blake Griffin came out at 703 in the second half. So the third quarter is when he first came out, Bruce Brown entered the game for him and then we didn't see Blake the rest of the way. And without Blake, you know, it further strains their role players.

I still like Brooklyn's depth. I mean, I still like what Bruce Brown offers in the defensive end of the floor and what he offers as a short roller. I still love Joe Harris, a 46% three-point shooter. But when Joe Harris is going one for seven in game three and he's going two for six in game four, missing some easy open opportunities, it changes the way in which you're viewing these role players. I still like what Jeff Green can offer for that team.

And he had some good moments in his first game back today for game four. But if you're talking about these guys being shot creators, being defensive stoppers, it can be a bit much. And isn't this the risk in having a top heavy roster around three stars? And now if one of them drops out, then if two of them drop out, then suddenly your depth behind those three stars is looking weak because the context changes of what what is required from the depth

PLA is what is required from these role players to get offense generated to get stops on defense and you know for this next team moving forward like like again we'll find out what happens with James Hard and Kyrie Irving in the days to come but Milwaukee has figured some things out they have they have figured some things out

Brooke Lopez is showing a little higher on pick and rolls not dropping all the way to the paint you know like we said with earlier Conantin's sagging off non-shooters, they are doing a good job at containing the other guys in this roster. And if they only have to worry about Kevin Durant running pick and roll after pick and roll, ISO after ISO, I mean, it's very possible that this series only goes six. It's very, very possible. But to your point about these solo stars, you know, right now this week with, you know,

with Yokic and Denver and how their series has gone and, you know, some of the stars that have already been eliminated, like Luca last round, And now Trey with Philadelphia, the only guy in that team and they play Monday night. You know, no star can do it by themselves. Not in today's league. There's too many great players. There's too many teams with multiple great players and strong depth. So you can't expect a solo player.

You can't expect Kevin Durant to drag this team. Every star needs a little bit of help from their friends. Yeah. To get by, that's definitely true. I think, you know, going back, I wanted to tack on two. that, you know, above the break in this series, Joe Harris is eight for 25 from three, so non-corner threes, not good.

When we're talking about like stars, yeah, I noticed that that was kind of a trend among the teams that the series that have gone here, you talk about like Trey Young, that offense is built around him. They've done a lot to improve it, but, you know, once they make an adjustment to kind of address that,

which we'll talk about, it gets more difficult for them. You know, Dallas, whenever they stopped switching, picking rolls, and he can't pick them apart, it gets more difficult. Utah might be in a situation here where the clippers make a specific adjustment that could be a challenge for them.

But the idea of having like a multi, I don't know what the word would be, multi polar offensive approach where you have three guys or two plus guys that can create at a high level at an elite level and maybe, you know, do some playmaking. That's not new. I mean, that's been going on. We always act like it is. And you were talking about two, it makes you wonder about like roster construction. I don't know that it's so much an indictment on, you know, focusing on trying to lure three guys, like to create a super team in that way. You know, I think it's more of a philosophical thing.

I mean, no team, even if you had drafted these players, no team is going to survive losing three producers at that level. It's just really difficult. And it throws, you don't really rehearse for that kind of thing. I mean, I know Brooklyn throughout the year, I guess you could make the, you could contradict me and say, Brooklyn's barely played together this year. But I mean, the key thing here is, you know, if Hardin comes back, I think, let's just

imagine some hypothetical where Hardin comes back and he's like some inkling of himself. This will be one of the most up and down series I can ever remember. Yeah. I mean, do you think, let's say Hardin comes back at 80%. What do you think Brooklyn's chances are? Pretty good. Pretty good. The way in which James Hardin dictates.

switches on the offensive end of the floor and the way in which he can create the opportunity that he wants, pulling. I mean, the way Brooklyn and Hardin specifically run pick and roll and use screens is they put guys out of position. You know, they will have an offball screen set hoping to force a switch to bring Brooke Lopez to the perimeter out of a help position. And I'm sure Milwaukee will say, no, we're not going to do that. We're not going to switch that. But Harding creates a new set of challenges with his combination of scoring and playmaking. in ways that Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving don't. And that's no knock against Katie or Kyrie.

They're different types of players. Hardin is more of a playmaker. So having Hardin back, I mean, we mentioned earlier, if Blake is out, we don't know what the deal was in that second half yet. But you also lose a little bit of playmaking if you don't have him. You'll lose a little bit if you don't have Kyrie. You're not getting Spencer Didwitty back. You're not reversing the Karas Lavert trade.

You're not getting him back, you know, for Hardin for a couple games. No Can Doe. No Jared Allen. they're not walking through that door. So if Hardin does come back, that changes the whole complex, giving Milwaukee another initiator and the half court to worry about. And that kind of goes without saying, you know, you bring James Hardin back.

It's not, we're not, we're not Ruby and Wild here. No, I think if this former MVP comes back to series, he'll change. Like you said, no guarantees he'll be,

he'll be 100%. He played a minute. If he comes back at all, they might not. I mean, that's a nagging injury that can, it lingers in your mind, not just physically. I mean, that's something that that's something that nags at you.

And I was curious, too, about, you talked about earlier in the game that Milwaukee, to me, the biggest most baffling thing about this series has been Milwaukee's offensive approach throughout. It's almost like Brooklyn overwhelmed them. And I was thinking about, you know, I tweeted before this series that Bucks Nets rhymes with something profane. You can go look it up. But to me, it seemed like something, it rhymes with fuck yes.

Okay, I'm being nice for Kevin because he doesn't like flooring. I don't mind the F word. I'll say it. So, no, I just thought on paper, I think we all just had this really fantasy idea of what this matchup was going to be. I think we just thought that it was going to be incredible offensive ratings. We thought that it would just be, hey, make, you know, shot making, shot making. We thought, and it's just been downright bizarre. A, because Milwaukee just, I think they took some punches to the matter.

and a lot of it has been Janice's decision-making. Now, he's just been, and it's been a theme for him over the years, you hear about the Janus Wall, stopping his transition game is a big deal. Obviously, Blake Griffin had some familiarity with his repertoire trying to get to the rim. It's not that crazy dynamic. What do you think about some of the things that they did early on in the game to try to change up the way they get Janus' downhill momentum

and how that affected their overall offense? I mean, we're seeing Janice pass more. It doesn't necessarily pop up in the stats. He only had three assists tonight. Seeing more early passes, which I think is a good thing for him. In game three, they used him more as a screener. Did it did it a little bit more tonight as well, using some more Chris Middleton to initiate the offense.

And I like that. I mean, I think that's a good thing for them to continue doing that. And for Yonis, I thought this was his best game of the series. You know, more aggressive going downhill. You only took five three pointers rather than the eight in game three. That's an improvement. Still a bit baffling at times when he does that. But overall, I was highly impressed with Janus in this game.

Did you see progress from him in that regard and creating for others and creating easier chances for himself? I think it's just for him a lot of the time, Janice is the Hulk and he can just smash whenever he wants. He can just do, he can get to the spot that he wants to get to just by his lateral flexibility. He can skirt around people. Well, the scouting gets better.

in the playoffs. It just does. The teams are better. The players are smarter. Those are the people left at the end of the year and he's run into this problem. Now, they have the pieces that are more dynamic, as you and I have talked about. They just weren't using them in the first game. And some of that is him identifying, okay, I have the angle. I have the advantage. I have Blake off balance. I can get around him or quickly deciding kick it. You know, because on the first, they didn't, they didn't score. They didn't hit shots in the first five possessions. But the first like five or six possessions where, like, left side pick and roll with Middleton, he turns the corner, Janus comes the opposite way, he catches a handoff and goes to the rim.

Janus as a screener for Middleton, Janus in the High Post, Janus in the Dunker Spot. They tried some creative ways to catch Brooklyn off balance so that he isn't just standing. And part of it, too, is like, it's not all where the bodies are. He has to consider where the eyes are, too, because he just draws a lot of attention. I really, really think in the future, this is just sort of a rant on my. for me with Janice, he's got to add some post stuff, man.

He has to, because there are a couple different times where he caught deep. And I'm pretty, he had like Jeff Green, I mean, he had a couple times where he had smaller players on him.

And he couldn't just go up and baby hook shots. I know I sound like an old man saying this kind of stuff, but there's some really simple stuff that he has to add because I just think that he's literally ramming his head

into a wall with this pull-up stuff. And I just don't, he's going to have to balance it. It can't be either or like that. Like he's got to add some other facet to his game to balance that stuff out. What do you think? No, absolutely, Kyle. I mean, that is the next step for Yonis.

I'd love to see him dedicate this time this offseason to postups, some low post work, some high post work, facilitating from the post, adding counter moves, how to handle double teams and pressure from the post, all of that stuff, because do that a little bit more instead of practicing your three,

pointer. And like that's not to diminish the importance of a three. Janus with a three pointer. If he's able to become a 35, 36, 37 percent guy and a higher volume with any consistency, that's scary. It's scary to think about. But it's also scary to think about what he can be in the low post because we're seeing that in the other series with Atlanta and the Sixers with Joelle Lombie. He's been a dominant force in that series. Philly is up 2.1. Game four of that is on 7.30 Eastern on Monday night. Kyle, I mean, I mean, Atlanta looked great in game one, but the way this series has progressed, I'm not feeling good at all about the Hawks' chances of getting back into this.

And that's, you know, because of Ben Simmons and Matisse Thival, the way they've defended Trey Young, but it's also because of John Al-Beed, somebody who, you know, he entered the NBA with far more a clear post-potential. I mean, his improvement at Kansas way back when in 2014 was remarkable to see that happen over the course of his freshman season. But every single year of his career and Bede his end. added something to his post game to become an absolutely dominant force borderline unstoppable on the post. In this series against the Hawks, the Sixers are scoring 1.3 points per chance on

Mbid postups according to second spectrum. That is an outstanding number. It's an outlier number far exceeds the top players in the NBA in the past four or five years. And the thing is with Mbid is he's scoring from this high, you know, high frequency. And he's scoring with high efficiency. and he looks unbothered. He doesn't feel the pressure. It's totally chill. Anytime the hawk's in a double, he's finding a shooter.

He's finding a cutter. And when they don't, he's just burying the defender one-on-one. And I think Embedd's serves as the prime example right now in the playoffs of what you can be when you're big and strong and have full work on the post. I'd love to see Janus take a page out of Embed's book because I don't think there's any chance of the hawk stopping him right now.

Do you? Oh, no. He looks honestly bored a lot of the time. They honestly just don't have. They're little stretches where you can tell Capella will maybe say something, maybe roar after a dunk, and Embed just like, seriously, dude, and then he'll come down and score pretty easily. I mean, we've seen that throughout.

You're talking about an evolving post game. I mean, the difference between him and Janus is Embed, for some reason, is just one of those players. I tried to talk about this in a video. Who knows where his touch came from, but he has touch. I've theorized. I think he has great spatial sense because, of his soccer experience.

And I think that, you know, it's a whole conversation. But I think volleyball probably helped his touch, too. I'm doing this with my hands right now. There's a lot of videos of him doing that. He just has great sense. And he's always kind of had those. He's never really had bad shooting habits, in my opinion. He's always had a great baseline as a shooter.

But you're absolutely right. And I think that adding the foul drawing was really tough. That made him even more difficult to guard because you're more terrified every time he catches the ball in the high post. And he's graceful. I really don't know of many players at his weight that can exert their power in a controlled way. You know, a lot of guys who are big and strong aren't as laterally agile as him. Years ago, Brett Brown said he's Shaq with soccer feet.

That's pretty good description. It made sense to me. He's still not even as heavy as Shaq. I've tried to tell a lot of these kids on Twitter that they need to go watch the tape because Shaq was seriously a planet. What was Shaq's peak weight? he was over 300 several years I mean go watch Shaq

yeah like 06 Shaq I mean seriously Embed's big but I mean he's more graceful I think in terms of overall balance but Shaq didn't play in the same era you know and there weren't a lot of the same he didn't have a lot of same elements anyway

that's a short thing I thought it was also interesting in game three the Sixers the second half used the post in a different way with Ben Simmons don't see a lot of post stuff from here there's only one and a half per game the whole season. He had six in game three. The coaching staff clearly made that adjustment at half time, went to Simmons immediately,

and it worked out great, man. I mean, if they showed any help towards him at all, he was able to distribute. He was a pass first player on the post. It worked great, man. It added a new wrinkle to their offense that you don't see a lot of. And for the Sixers, Simmons isn't necessarily a scoring threat on the post. He's improved a little bit over the years. He gets to his right hook, has a bit more footwork on the low post, but using that as a hub for playmaking as another element to their half court offense where you space and bead out or if it beads off the floor. That makes me feel better about their chances in a potential series next round against Milwaukee or Brooklyn.

The more layers you add to your half court offense, the better. Yeah, if they do it. I mean, that one, I noticed the common denominator. They went on a 19 to 5 run, I think. well, they went on a few runs that buried them 16 to 5 in the first, and that was Embed, Simmons, Stuybill, Curry, Korkmaws. But then they went on like a 19 to 5 run, I think, in the third quarter, where Tony Snell is on the floor and it just didn't go well. But he did that nice weakside corner skip to Seth Curry that was gorgeous. Oh, that was gorgeous. Oh, so beautiful.

I think that Seth and Korkma's, their movement shooting in this game was a particular, particularly a headache for Atlanta. One thing that I think is interesting is that you're talking about how Philly is this big team. They have these things that Atlanta can't refute just because of, I mean, at times it looks varsity JV

size-wise out there. And Bid makes Capella look small. Which is a lot. Yeah. I mean, I've seen Capella in person. He's big. But if you think about what Atlanta wants to do offensively, some of this is they're missing guys that would like we talked about bridge the gap.

some of the physical gap here and help. Probably not enough to make a difference. But, you know, Atlanta wants to put that playmaking on the floor. They want to keep, they like keeping Collins at the four. But what Philly is doing that is sort of on the other end flipping it is that since they know they want to keep these certain lineups on the floor, they're putting, you know, either Thibel or Simmons on Trey and Collins. So whenever they try to go run those one four pick and rolls, Tray's coming around the corner

and he's got Embed, imagine being Trey Young. Imagine being Trey Young, who's shorter than me. And he's, I was likening it to, have you seen the, the, what's it, Peter Jackson version of King Kong? I don't think so, no. Well, there's a scene where they're running through this valley and there are dinosaurs all around. And there are these human beings that are looking up. And it's like, oh, God, there are dinosaurs on all sides. That has to be what Trey feels like whenever he turns the corner.

Because he's got Joelle Embed in Center Field waiting for it. him should he try to get into the middle of the floor. He's got Simmons or Thibble behind him, and then he's got Simmons or Thibble switching. So either way, he's in this triangle of size. Over the course of this series, in game one, Philly switched two defensive pick and rolls with Trey in game two, four, in game three, 14. So they have figured out that we put Trey in a crowd with these guys. Keeping Thibel on the floor has been huge for them, I think. Kyle, doesn't this speak to the importance for Trey?

Like, you know, whenever the series ends, you go into the off season, you're thinking about what went wrong in the series? What do I need to get better at? And the number one thing that sticks out in my mind is if you can't get Trey going on on the ball, get him going off the ball. You know, to me, I think that's the next key for Trey's Young is developing a game off the ball, cutting off coming off screens, do a little bit more. Take a page out of Steph Curry's book. You're not an elite all-time shooter like Steph, but you can still do some of the things that made him effective. Some of the things that years ago made Isaiah Thomas with the Celtics effective. When IT had that top five MVP season with the Celtics, it wasn't just pick and roll, isolation, pick and roll, isolation.

It was pick and roll, come off a screen, come off a dribble handoff, then in isolation, then a pick and roll. It was constantly changing what you were doing on offense. And you look at the Hawks roster with Bogdanovich, with Gellonari, with a dribble, Hurter. You have other secondary creators in the team who can create a little bit for you. I mean, where do you stand with that? Like, what's the next step for Trey's game? So this doesn't happen again, where he is in that triangle of size after he's on and picking rolls all the time. It's a challenge. I think the size thing, like we talked about, is an issue for him offensively because he's not going to strictly be catching shoot. It's tougher for him because he is small. I think

we underestimate just how small he is physically. I'm not saying he's like a weakling. I'm just saying he is a he's a small guy so of like off the catch uh it's going to be tough for him on that front and he's just yeah developing that off ball motor i think it's just a big thing for him is he going to be is he going to want to do that um i'm i'm not totally sure um another thing too is just that a big concern for him is you know they're picking on him defensively a lot in this cork boss came for oh dude they picked they picked on him in a in a smorgas board of ways they They came at him with, well, offensively, they're trying to, like, compartmentalize his offense. That's the thing, too, is that they're just, they're cutting, they're cutting the water off.

The landlord is shutting the water off with the spot-up offense for Atlanta. They're not, they're not getting anything. I mean, over the course of this series, yeah, they were one point, we talked one point three, two in the first game. This game, they were 0.7. It's, they've cut in half, basically. So, but defensively, yeah, they're targeting. They're trying to get him in ball screens, off the ball, things like that. Cork Mazz was attacking him off the dribble,

which was pretty sad to watch on it. I mean, Cork Mazz is a good player. I'm just saying, like, the resistance was just pitiful. Did you notice them targeting him? None of it. None of it. There was no resistance at all.

And, you know, you mentioned Trey size. You know, Trey's potential was obvious at Oklahoma. Clear his day, what he could be if everything worked out for him. The people who weren't all the way in on him, which includes me, I think I had him ranked 10th, 9th or 10th on my big boards. something like that. A little way too low for Trey Young, but the reason why it was because of the size

and how that would impact him against longer defenders on offense. It was because of the defense and how he could be a liability. And I still don't think we've seen an offense that can completely exploit Trey on defense. The Sixers don't have that downhill pick and roll guy trying to force a switch to get Trey on him. That element isn't there. And I do think we could see that in the years to come.

But for Trey, we are some. seeing some of the downsides here. And that's why, again, I really think for him, adding layers to his offense will always keep him as a threat. He can't be a non-threat when he's away from the ball. He's too talented. He's too smart of a player to not move off the ball. He's too good of a shooter, not to be a threat off the catch and off screens and off

handoffs. Like, you add that to your game, man. It makes the defense have no moments to relax. There's not a single second you can relax off the ball. That's the challenge in defending. Stephen Curry. He is a constant threat in the half court because he's on ball and off ball. Trey right now is just an on ball guy. And defensively, I'm not sure there's any solving that besides building a strong defense around him. And that's going to take time. They did a better job

this year. Capella had a great year, you know, was deserving of all defensive team consideration. They added some good wing defenders. They're without DeAndre Hauna right now. Cam Rutters is somewhere, you know, rehabbing. He's not on the floor. And what their building makes sense around Trey, but there's always going to be challenges with him. Yeah, and I think that's probably part of the thinking and getting a Kongwu where they did too. Yes. I'd similar kind of thoughts on him at Oklahoma.

The skill was never a question with him. It's never, ever been the question with Trey. I'm more worried about the sort of insistence on play style. And, you know, defensively, he was really bad. Honestly, I think I had him like six or seventh, honestly, which was probably even, you know, it's too low because he's talented. But those questions, you got to be thinking about the larger goals. And I think that they still have some tooling to do.

Really, this series comes down to, there's been an ebb and flow of we were really excited. We're like, hey, man, how about those hawks? And then, you know, they beat a Knicks team that had some flaws that they're going to have to address. But maybe we overreacted to that a little bit and B being out. And then game one comes down to just some poor game planning going into game one for Philly. And I think that you're grinning really big. I mean, what do you? Having Danny Green on Trey Young, game one, still a bit of an odd move.

And Danny Green now will be out for at least two weeks with a calf injury, which could affect them next round. But I don't think it's going to be an issue to get past Atlanta the rest of the way here. Yeah. I mean, yeah, that's another thing. We saw a little, I think we saw a little more production from Shake Milton. He was attacking Trey too. I mean, they were just taking turns attacking it. Yeah, but they were.

They were. And I think what you just said there about, you know, maybe we, you know, overreacted a little bit until the way they beat the Nix. could say the same thing with the way the Nuggets beat a flawed Blazers team and that takes us to game four of Sons and Nuggets. All right, Kyle, let's move on to the Western Conference on Sunday, Phoenix beat Denver 125 to 118 to advance

to the Western Conference finals. The Bright Future Sons are now the Bright Now Sons. Devin Booker had 34 points, fueled the Sun's first half lead. And Chris Paul, again, just absolutely magnificent, Kyle, 37.7 assist, two turnovers for the series. Games one through four.

Game one, 21 points, 11 assists, one turnover. Game two, 17 points, 15 assists, zero turnovers. Game three, 27 points,

eight assists, two turnovers. Game four, 37 points, seven assists, two turnovers for the series, 25 and a half points, 10.3 assists to only one point three

turnovers. Chris Paul is not going away anytime soon. Kyle, this guy is still a dominant force and it was a pleasure to watch him just rip apart the Nuggets defense.

Yeah, man. It's been, a pretty crazy shift from where we started, you know, in the beginning of game one against the Lakers to where we are now. It just seemed like the narrative had shifted back towards that tragedy that has followed him a lot throughout his career, you know, he's a guy that I think is universally, you know, respected among the hoop world, you know, players, even if he can be sort of a combative personality, you like to see it. I know Chris Paul isn't everybody's favorite, it, but he's a great mentor to young point guards across the league.

That was something that I found in researching him. You know, a lot of, he takes a lot of time to tutor those guys. But he's showing us that he's not just to sort of dribble around Bob Coosy type, who's just kind of hanging in there on the floor. Like he, I just mean like, he's not like a guy who's just barely hanging on out there. Chris Paul, he knows his spots. I mean, specifically, we know, we know his spot. It's the right elbow.

we know how he likes to get there. And you could tell in that third quarter, he smelled blood. Like he could tell it was time to close this thing out. You mentioned that third quarter from Chris Paul, Kyle, all series long. It felt like anytime Denver pulled the help defense over to the paint to help against a lob or an entry pass to DeAndre Aiton,

he would immediately fire a pass to a corner three shooter, put the defense into her rotation, or it just be a spot up three opportunity. And if they didn't do that and they stayed home with a shooter, he would either get to the mid-range pull-up or fine Aiton or just get into the teeth of the defense and then kick it out. He just, it felt like every game, I read those stats, like the low amount of turnover is only five in the entire series.

It felt like he was just in complete control. You know, that speaks to his level of experience and how many times he's been through these runs. And as you said, the way the discourse changed around Chris Paul from that injury when he didn't look like his total self, it's like, uh-oh, it's happening again. another CP3 injury, but I mean, he looks like a guy who got MVP votes again right now and all NBA caliber player. And for the Sons, I mean, I'll tell you what, whether it's, you know, whether it's the MEPA, whether it's the Clippers or whether it's the Jazz for their opponent in the West Finals, I feel really, really good about the Sun's chances next round. That's because of Chris Ball, it's because of Devin Booker in this whole group.

Yeah. I mean, Phoenix has a Ben Don't Break sort of identity now. And I mean, in this series, they didn't been really at all. Not too much, though. But it was a thing where Portland and Phoenix kind of presented Utah similar problems. They really, really made their inefficiencies and struggles glaring. They could exploit them. You could see that at any moment, you know, Phoenix could just decide to pick on whoever they wanted in the pick and roll.

And it was, if Yokic hadn't gotten that flagrant foul, I felt like this game was on the path to being pitiful because that was a pretty demoralizing stretch. I almost feel like Denver kind of behaved like a wounded wild animal there for a stretch where it was just like this thing feels wild. And I was going to say shout out to the Denver crowd. I'm speculating here, but they seem like they'd been having a pretty good time. They were pretty rowdy.

But in terms of Chris Paul, I mean, he was never, you talked about the different types of reads. He never felt challenged. He never felt sped up in this series. They pointed this out on the broadcast. His eyes were big this whole game. And I talked about this a little bit in the Chris Paul video that I made is that like if Chris can get into the middle of the floor against a slow-footed five, they're toast. Because he is just masterful at like forcing those traditional fives to move laterally. And he knows the amount of separation that he has to create.

How many times in a road did he get to that shot in the third quarter? It was just funny to watch. And for me, I guess you could spin this forward. Which matchup do you think is more favorable for Phoenix? I think it's the first question coming away from this. Maybe slight edge to Clippers, but it's really close between those too. I mean, we've seen the way the clippers can match up in different ways. They've experimented, as we've talked about, you know, on this pod with different types of defenses.

But then again, with the jazz, if you're facing Rudy Gobert, it's a you could, face that drop coverage, have Chris Paul and Devin Booker feast on pull-ups. That's a possibility too. But I think Utah's overall defense is more potent. So I love the jazz. I think the jazz have a real shot of winning the whole thing. So that's why I lean towards the clippers being the slightly easier matchup, but it's close. How about you?

Yeah, I think that the Jets, I think that the Clippers could throw them some pretty unique problems for these playoffs. Defensively, like I think that they have stronger individuals. guys that can cause them specific issues. It depends on, you know, the clippers can be sort of up and down like we talked about. Another thing, too, is like Chris, Chris over the years has had a time feasting on Gobert in some of those situations. He's burned him with that shot a lot. I'm really interested, too, about this is sort of a question I know. And it's something that I think Suns fans have to, if they're being realistic, you have to consider. It's a good year to, they're in a good situation. You know, this could have fallen in another situation.

They've had some things kind of go their way. You never want to see injuries, but 80 going down was a big deal. Denver was not complete. They sort of started to kind of put together a more consistent lineup that they, you know, they were closer to what they were in the past. I guess you just kind of have to wonder how much of that factors in. Because I think that the Sons are a good, balanced team, I believe in them. How much of that do you think that we have to factor into it?

fact that I don't think that they've played a fully functional, dynamic elite NBA offense in these playoffs. Can I speak for Suns fans everywhere? Yeah, go ahead. Who cares? Jesus Christ. Injuries happen. They're part of the game.

It happens. You know, I'm trying to use that to factor in going forward. Like, you know, it's like those were fortunate things to happen. But I'm not trying to discredit what they did. I'm just saying, yeah. Spending it forward, these teams that they're playing are complete. Totally. Totally understand.

Totally understandable. With Utah's, we'll talk about later in the show. Mike Conley, questionable for Monday's game. So not quite complete for the Utah Jazz. So we'll see what happens there. That's true. To your point, assuming Conley's back, they will be complete, as well, the Clippers. You know, I think for the Sons, that will present another challenge.

I still think they could have beat the Lakers had eight even healthy. I still think they could have beat the Nuggets had Jamal Murray been available, you know, had Michael Porter not tweaked his back and not looked horrible and defense had he not falling off a cliff on that end. I still think they could have. The sons are all season long. All season long, the sons have constantly added layer after layer to their offense.

They have gotten more connected on the defensive end of the floor. The level that Diadri Aitin is playing at in this postseason is honestly remarkable. It is. I mean, Aighton ever since we were watching him in Arizona, ever since he was in high school, there's always been questions about this guy's effort, his motor, his ability to constantly bring it.

That's what he's doing in the postseason. And this team, any question I had about the sons and during the postseason, all tended to revolve around experience. And now we've seen these guys thrive, these young players, Aiton, Bridges, Cameron Johnson, Cameron Payne, Devin Booker, up and down the roster, they are thriving individually. They are thriving together. So for this team, yeah, they face some opponents with injuries. Yeah, maybe the series would have played out a little bit differently.

And maybe they would have even lost. It's possible. You know, if you lose the LeBron and AD, you know, you lost the LeBron and AD. You're just making your Phoenix Reddit sound bite right now. I know. Go ahead and put it on there. I'm kidding. I really believe in this team, Kyle.

I really do. I think this team like Devin Booker. Hold on. You're setting it up like I don't. I'm just asking important pertinent questions. Totally understand, Kyle. But do you believe? in them, though, in a series against the Utah

Jazz or the Los Angeles Clippers? Can they win that? Or even better yet, do you believe in this team as a serious threat to win the NBA finals over the top opponents in the East or whoever they might have to face in the West? Do you believe in them at that level?

I mean, if I'm being brutally honest, I'm skeptical. I'm skeptical about, like, if they face the full strength Brooklyn's of the world, I mean, come on. And then Philly is going to be, is defensive They're huge. I think that it would be an issue for them on the level.

It would kind of show some of the same lineup constraints that they were facing when the Lakers were rolling and it was starting to look kind of like rough. Milwaukee is an interesting one too because they're also pretty big. And I think that you could run into some similar issues there. The East, yeah, the East weirdly is a little bit more of a daunting task for me. I could see them conquering the West more easily than the East right now. What do you think about that in terms of your ranking? Very fair, I think. Especially as you noted, if it's a full strength,

Nets roster with Hardin and Katie and Kyrie. I mean, I don't know if anybody remaining is beating that team, if they're at full strength. But that's a big question ultimately. And before we talk about Denver for a second here, Devin Booker, 11 for 25 in the game, 34 points. He had 21 in the first half, really, really, really strong performance to help give them the lead early on.

What did you see from Booker in these playoffs in terms of him making a leap at all? Has he shown anything to you to suggest that something's imminent, you know, like we saw from Mitchell or Murray in last year's postseason? I guess you kind of have to ask yourself, you know, was this there before? Because he hasn't had the chance to compete. You know, he's had a lot of, he's had his hands tied in some ways in terms of personnel and things. It wasn't built quite right. They always really wanted to put, he really fits into that sort of dual point guard,

dual lead ball handler set up, you know. I don't see, I don't see Booker as somebody that I would necessarily want to take, like, the heliocentric, the heliocentric, you know, sort of approach and just, but I don't know, I'm kind of falling less in love with that, like, dominant ball handler. That's another conversation. I think that we saw, we saw leaps from him in terms of his maturity in pacing and shot selection. I think we, I think we're going to have to start calling him big game book. That was my suggestion. I like it. Big game book.

Yeah. What do you think about that, Suns fans? Let us know, tweet at us. What do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, he's, he showed, we kind of got an idea that, you know, the, the killer personality was there. But I think, yet again, I just think CP3 has been great for him, both schematically and off the court.

I think that he's been a great influence on him. And you could see down this game, not to pivot back to Chris Paul again, but I mean, like, He just, they together seem to have this like, they were holding the reins of this. And I never really felt like this is going to fall apart, you know? They didn't look freaked out. They had one moment where, you know, they threw an inbound and Will Barton stole it. And you were just like, what's going on here? But I think that Devin is, in terms of like skill development, he's been put in a better position to do things that he already did well, in my opinion, a little bit.

but I think that he is on the verge of making another skill development leap. I think that could happen this coming season. But in terms of his poise and things like that, he's amplifying things that he was good at in the past. I absolutely agree with you. Next step for him is further extending his range off the dribble, becoming the most potent three-point shooter off the dribble that he can be. Let's talk about the nuggets for a minute and just start off with Yokic,

the flagrant two and tossed out of the game. You know, I saw that play. I did not see it live. when it first happened. I was doing some jazz media availability as that happened. Watching the replay afterwards, first of all, I'm curious, Kyle. What did Twitter react like? I didn't see that lie. They were mad. They were very mad. Did they believe it was correct to throw him out? Or did people think it was a wrong decision? Most people thought it was weak sauce. I thought so too. I thought, I totally thought so too. Watching the replay again, didn't see it live.

But he made a play at the ball. You know, it was a silly play. You know, he showed. shouldn't have done it. He was clearly angry. He's got to stop that stuff. I know, but throwing him out of the game, he did make a play at the ball. He didn't mean to hit him in the face. Like, he did. The only thing, the only thing that I would throw in there is, I think

that the call waived, I don't know the exact literature wordage on the, on the call, on the rule, but like, the wind up was pretty gnarly. Like, that was, that was like, and you got to start to think, wind up equals intent. And it's like, yeah,

where it landed. I mean, if I, you know, aim a gun at you and I miss, I was like, well, my intention was to shoot you, Kevin. No, I mean, like, I'm just, that's pretty extreme, but I'm just saying, I don't think he was trying to hit him in the face, though. He was, you don't think so? I don't believe so. If you watch that slow motion, man, it was almost Shakespeare in the way, like, he was like, he just, I don't know, it was like animal planet, the intense rage on Yokic's face. Kyle, it was all ball and a little bit of nose.

You're right. You're right, Kib. How dare those rats make that call? I mean, regardless, like the reps have to have to do their jobs and police the game. And then like you said, with the wind up and just how hard of a throw that was by him, understandable that he was thrown out. That was an L duke wind up. That was a good. That was a good. Rare baseball reference from me.

I like it. So for this Denver team, Yokic wins MVP. You know, Michael Porter Jr. terrific to close the season, gets hurt a little bit. but in the last couple of games here. Defense was not quite as good against the Phoenix Suns. Get Aaron Gord at the trade deadline. You know, you got Campasel getting a lot of minutes. Monte Morris getting a lot of minutes.

Austin Rivers. What's missing from this Nuggets team, Kyle, spinning it forward for them as they build this thing out? What should they be seeking to complete this team? Well, I mean, I think you need a little bit better Murray insurance, I would assume. Do you think, I mean, do you think that they need another scoring wing? do you think they obviously I mean the ball screen thing is is a big deal and Murray being out I think Murray being there I think it would have probably been just as big a deal you know losing you know

Gary Harris was their only really solid uh on ball defender barton's pretty you know barn's fine he's pretty good I just think you start getting into these conversations where you're like well we need a two-way wing who can who can score to me I mean the defense is a big deal they just got picked on over and over and over again. What do you think? I don't know. I'm kind of ramble on that. I think you're right that, you know, finding another defensive oriented guard or wing, getting

Aaron Gordon was a smart thing to do. You know, he was up and down to the offensive end of the floor at times. You wish he'd offered more. But I still like Gordon in this roster playing next to Yokich in the front court. So adding another defensive oriented wing,

whether it's over Will Barton or whether it's instead of, you know, Campazo or Monta Morris. Because I think your, I think your Jamal Murray insurance is those guys. You know, Monta Morris is a really good backup guard. He is for sure. He's a really good backup guard. And Campazo is, you know, in my opinion, not on the level of Monta Morris, but still good depth to have coming off your bench with the energy and the spark that he can provide. So I think you have a bit of a Murray insurance. It's still about finding the right surrounding pieces for those guys. And they've gotten closer. You know, they went to the Western Conference finals last year. year. You know, they still have a really great team. They beat a tough,

blazer, tough butt flawed, the Blazers team. You know, they faced Phoenix and obviously got swept, but, you know, the sons were just a way better team, the way healthier team. I still think this Denver team is close, but having the right supporting pieces around Yokic on the defensive end of the floor is going to be the real key to elevating this thing for them. And with Aaron Gordon, though, the flip side of that is, well, what happens if some of those guys aren't offering a lot on the offensive on the floor? Does I heard you. It's so tough to balance out roster building in the NBA.

Yeah, I think that they obviously can score the ball whenever they're at full strength. It's just, it really is. And I mean, I don't know, you get into a situation where you're just, you have to start to wonder, you know, we have this glut of guys who are Jamal Murray

insurance. It's like, do we hang on to all those people? Do we need, or do we need to sort of focus more on on, I don't know, that's a lot, that's a lot of bodies in the rotation. It's like, we need to kind of get bodies into that rotation that can that can do i mean you saw the quality of the perimeter when i think about denver's roster and then i look at like phoenix's roster i see like a plethora of players on the phoenix roster that can do what you need to do in the modern NBA that can

close gaps quickly hit shots but but are generally crowd or johnson yeah about the switchability troy craig for that matter who used to be with the nuggets Denver player yeah yeah so i i just start thinking about those things. I think that they have some, some decisions to make going forward. They, they definitely do. But it would have been really interesting to see them in these, in these playoffs with Murray. We'll just have to kind of think about that going forward. We'll never know. It's a shame he got hurt and hopefully comes back healthy next season and Denver can make another run. Let's move on to the other series in the Western Conference between the Clippers and the Jazz. All right, let's move on to the nightcapper on Monday night. That's game four of

Clippers Jazz. We saw L.A. win game three on Saturday night. They changed the way they defended Donovan Mitchell. They blitzed him and pressured him more often. We saw a little bit more Kauai Lander defending him too. Kyle, we saw last round the Clippers adjusted to the way they defended Luca.

Have they figured out their best way to defend Mitchell? Just like they did last round against Dallas. I mean, they're playing him a little differently. I think that a big thing is it always kind of seems like Kauai agree or disagree with this. Rightly,

wrongly. Kauai has a mode that he shifts into it's almost like he a lot of the stars do this. They're like I have this finite amount of like max energy and Kauai we've seen you know LeBron tried to do that this year

but it just kind of fell apart on him they couldn't do it. Yeah they went with a smaller lineup here and tried to attack him and put more rangy defenders on the floor. They were allowing Donovan early in the game last game to kind of turn the corner and attack them with his dribble pull-ups, split the traps, just giving him too much space, putting more

like fleet-footed defenders on the floor to trap him, forcing their kind of secondary playmakers to make decisions and make plays. I definitely think that that's made a big difference. I mean, he's still got his offense, not super efficiently. He was 11 for 24, 5 for 9 from 3. I don't know that the problem was so much Donovan as what that pressure did to their other people. pieces. What do you think? What do you mean by that, Kyle? I just mean that I think that it put pressure on some of their other guys to make plays like Ingalls and Bogdanovich and Clarkson when he comes in. And it just seemed like their offense, we were talking about the spot-up offense with the Hawks or the Hawks and the Bucks.

It just seemed like, I don't know. I'm kind of mixed here. Do you think it's so much the Clippers made a switch or did the Jazz just not make shots in this game? What do you think? It's a little bit of both. It certainly is partially that the Jazz just missed some open shooting opportunities. But I do think your point about the fact that it put pressure on some of those other guys to have to make plays. That speaks to the lack of Mike Conley here, doesn't it? Without Conley, Ingls moves into the starting five, which means Jordan Clarkson is handling the majority of the creation off the bench rather than him and Engels sharing it. They're at their best when Ingalls is coming off the bench. Should have been the sixth man of the year. That's a different discussion for another day. I mean, Clarkson is the seventh man. Ingalls is the sixth man. But anyway, so pieces fall into, into alignment for this jazz roster when you have Mike Conley starting.

We don't know his status as of recording late Sunday for game five for game four. You would hope if you're the jazz, you're able to get him back because that changes everything. And not only that, it's not just about Mitchell. It's not just about Ingalls and Bogdanovich and these guys. It's also about Ruth's. be Gobert.

For sure. Mike Conley and Gobert developed a very, very good connection this season in the pick and roll. And if you're able to get Gobert going and create some lob opportunities, some dump off to him near the rim with Conley running high pick and roll, that's going to make life a heck of a lot more difficult on what the clippers want to do. They might want to pressure Mitchell, but you might not have the personnel to do that to Mike Conley as well. How do you see Conley's potential return impact in the series if he does come back?

I mean, it's pretty obvious. It's what you all you just, you detailed it. honestly, just now, I mean, he gives you extra playmaking on the floor. He gives you extra shooting. He gives you every time that Donovan kicks that ball, you're someone who a great high-level decision maker and a score is catching. And that really helps. That helps to grease the wheels.

And it's going to help them to compete with some of these lineups. It's like we don't see the clippers. We always talk about the clippers that, you know, they got all these wings. They have all this like perimeter size. And it's like we don't fully see it unlocked until they just like play all of them at the same time, basically. Whenever it's like whenever they put Zubotch on the floor, there's there is some pawn out there for either Luca or for Donovan Mitchell to just play games with and to exploit tonight. I guess technically did they have Batum at the Five tonight? They really were challenging him.

They were challenging Gobert. You were right. but I think on the offensive side of the floor, I was noticing it more too. Some of these smaller lineups were really challenging Derek Favors, really challenging Gobert, getting them away from the basket. If you go back and you watch play by play, Gobert did fine.

I mean, he held his own. He didn't necessarily get exploited, but it's more, whenever you're pulling Gobert away from the basket, I put a screenshot in our document, but it's the indirect things that happen. Whenever you have, like, Batum in the corner to potentially catch a pass and hit a three,

it opens up, it lessens the fear. And, you know, the Clippers, to straight line drive to the rim because he's not going to be there. And the Clippers, stars played well tonight or played well in the last game. And that's, I think that's a huge factor for the Clippers, obviously, if your stars play well. No doubt. I mean, Nick Patoon, revive from the dead. Yeah. It's been great.

How fun is it to watch Nick Patum. Reanimated Corps. Yeah. And yeah, to your point about Gobert getting pulled away from the pain, he does a fine job one-on-one. It's just the fact that you're taking him away from the area of the floor where he is such a nuisance, a deterrent to guys attacking. And I mean, he still did a great job in that game when opportunities were there. But if he's pulled out, you know, I think it was a good move for the clippers to do that. It really was because Batum and Morris are guys you can't

sag off of. You can't leave them open. They're not non-threats. And that's the benefit of the Clippers when they're playing small. And I thought Tyloo has messed around with his rotation a lot throughout the entire playoffs, going back to the first round against Dallas. And he stumbled upon something in game three that I'm very,

very intrigued by with Beverly, man, Kinard, as the first three guys off the bench. And then Zubat's got 13 minutes, didn't play a lot. So he went with basically a nine-man rotation. And Rondo didn't play. Cousel

didn't play after they've played throughout the series. And I like what Ty Loo threw out there. To me, this was a pretty good mix. What were your thoughts? Did he figure out his rotation here? Is this something to go with moving forward with no Rondo, no cousins? You kind of emphasize some names at the end there. Are you trying to, what are you trying to get at there, Kev, with your specific?

It's nothing to do with Kentucky, cut. Nothing to do with Kentucky. Do you don't want to rub my nose in it that DeMarcus cousins, Patrick Patterson, and Ron John Rondo did like? Patrick Patterson also got the DNP coach's decision. Wasched crew. Yeah, blue wash at the end there. Big blue wash.

No, yeah, I think these lineups are versatile. I think a big part of it, too, is just they just are flipping a switch of, I've always kind of gotten this vibe in the last couple of seasons from the clipper. Now, some of the, some of the personnel has changed. They just kind of have had this vibe of like, oh, shit, oh, shit, we got to, we got to, like, lock in now. they've kind of had that mode where they'll, they'll, they lock in and then show you what they can really do. I mean, shot making, it really is, it's a league where if you make shots, you're going to

win. I mean, they went 19 for 36 from the three point line, 52.8%. They create a lot of open shots. I just think that, I don't know, do you think that this series is going to go seven? What do you, what's your prediction if we were just sitting here, if you made an on-the-fly prediction? I picked Utah and six. I'll stick with that. You think so? Okay. How about yourself going seven? I guess a lot of it, the shot making was a little aberrational here. I mean, like, Bogie missed a lot of shots that he normally makes. I went back and watched some of the specific ones.

They were like in rhythm shots that he usually cans. But they were being pretty physical with him, making him drive, kind of making him drive odd angles because he's not really known as a super creative finisher. But if he hits shots, I think it's a different game. Clarkson didn't have the game that he's been having. he was a little off, five for 16 from the field. I would still, I don't know, I could see the Clippers doing it, man. I really could.

Me too. It felt different. The vibe there felt different. I could just, I could see it happening. Don't get me wrong. I mean, Clippers have a real chance to win the series. They do. You have Kawhi Leonard.

You have Paul George. You have a really, really good team. And I just think the jazz are a better team. And we'll see how the rest of this series plays out. Kyle, this is fun. looking forward to doing this again with you next Sunday. Always, man. Always, KOC. I'll see you, buddy.

Thank you for listening to today's episode of the Ringer NBA show. And thank you to Steve Allman for producing. Follow the Ringer NBA show on Spotify and subscribe wherever you get your podcast. And be sure to tell a friend about the show as well if you liked it. Thank you. And I hope you have a fun day.