The Ringer NBA Show - The Cardiac Lakers, the Church of Scottie Barnes, and More Early Season Story Lines We Love | The Answer

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

Chris and Seerat start their NBA affirmations by discussing the new rule changes and how they are affecting refereeing around the league (1;00). Then they dissect the Lakers' entertaining fourth quarters (6:00) and wax poetic about Gary Payton II (14:00) and Evan Mobley (23:00). They wrap everything up by showing the Chicago Bulls some love (33:00) and sharing their thoughts on the blooming Cade Cunningham vs. Jalen Green rivalry (40:00) and the NBA's new generation. Hosts: Chris Ryan and Seerat Sohi Production Assistant: Chris Sutton Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Let's help everybody. I'm JJ John Gistramski. And I'm Jason Gough. And if you haven't heard, the ringer has gone local. I'm bringing the fire. I'm bringing the rain from the big apple with my show, New York, New York. And I'm reping Shottown with my new show The Full Go on All Things Chicago. We've got episodes three nights a week with all the reaction to the local teams and guests.

Plus bonus episodes around all the big games and storylines. So whether you're uptown, downtown, downtown, in the burbs or a transplant. Make sure you follow New York, New York, and the full go on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's The Answer. I'm Chris Ryan. I'm joined as always by Siritt Soie. What's up, Siritt?

How's it going, Chris? I love basketball. Me too. And I'm not afraid who knows it. It's just been quite a week here in the NBA. Cyr and I wanted to hit a bunch of different things. So basically what you usually get in game 15 or wherever we're at right about now is the sort of, is this real, is this fake? We're just trying to like embrace the possible here on the answer.

So what Sirot and I are doing this week is we are leaning into our NBA season affirmations. This is our wish list of things that we've seen that we want to see continue. And it's just been a great week of basketball. Sir, I thought we could just kick it off with this general note, you know. So there's been a lot of discussion about the rule changes and how it has adversely impacted people like Dame Lillard or Trey Young or James Harden, but has contributed to an overall improvement of the product, the flow of the game's better, scores have come down, it's more physical, et cetera.

I think that's true. Obviously, I think that's true. But I feel like what it's also making me do is appreciate different parts of basketball that maybe the last couple of seasons I haven't noticed or gotten a chance to watch because so much of what we were seeing was wrapped up in not grifting.

Like, I don't want to get too carried away where like the sins of a few is like the sin of the league or something but that I do let's moralize let's do it I felt like the product was starting to get more and more homogenous that more and more teams were like giving up interesting mid to closer

in shots to hunt for threes that there was a lot of hunting for fouls when attempting threes and that the game was just really choppy and when I look at all these things that I've loved about the early part of the season I think a lot of them come down to this is the basketball that I grew up with, but like way better,

with way better playmakers and way better athletes and way more inventiveness on the perimeter. But I'm starting to see more games that feel like they're decided on physicality and defense and different things like that. And it's just been so exciting. This is honestly, honestly, like, been the most fun I've had watching basketball in a couple of years. Yeah, this was kind of the perfect counterbalance. It's kind of gone exactly the way that you would have hoped. only people who are, like, you know a rule is good when, like, the only people who are mad about it are the ones that it directly impacts. Like, nobody else is on their side saying, like,

oh, you know what, I actually miss the days of, of Tray Young or Steph Curry or Dame Lillard, like, veering into other people and potentially hurting themselves, you know, potentially, like, you know, landing in situations that would get their own ankles sprained in order to, to try to draw fouls. I think, you know, in time, they'll learn to love it, too, you know. Sure. Yeah. This is maybe an adjustment period for them, but, you know, I believe in, you know, I believe in good basketball, just bringing everybody together. And I think, you know, they'll get there.

Those guys are way too good to not be all NBA caliber players. Like, they'll figure it out. It was really funny. Did you get a chance to watch Lakers, Lakers Heat last night at all? Yeah. So towards the end of that game, Kyle Lowry managed to get himself fouled on a three-point attempt by Malik Monk hooked him. and there was literally a quorum

like LeBron dressed in all camp like green camo Vogel Malik Monk I think none was getting involved in the proceedings all surrounding the referee and they were all doing the same

like reenactment of Kyle Lowry's shooting motion and the ref was just like I called it the way I called it but they were like no but he went like this no but he went like this and it's supposed to be like this and it was just like this is probably the most comedic aspect of this is these guys trying to litigate it. But it was kind of awesome.

Like that was one of the only times I've seen a guy, at least last night it was like one of the only times I've seen a guy really get like a BS call out on the perimeter like that. Yeah, like there is like an extra sort of like drama to the proceedings right now, even the fact that we're calling them proceedings like ever in the early, you know, especially the first few games. Like I just wrote a feature on the Hawks. So like I've been watching the Trey Young referee kind of conflict.

It's become pretty contentious. at this point. It feels almost like, you know, they're blowing the whistle on him a little bit early these days. And he's been pretty... In Philly, they did, actually, that Philly game, like the four-point play that he gave up. He kind of just, like, it was a dismissive arm flick,

and he got called for a tech. He's been, he's been, like, sneak-dissing them post-game. It's not, yeah, it's not a great dynamic right now between those two entities. But, yeah, it's interesting. like there is an extra sort of layer right now where we're kind of watching both sides try to figure out like what's going to be right or wrong

and it allows like it allows the team like the Lakers to then like put some extra pressure on and be like well no I mean look what's the spirit are we really like the spirit of the rules you know like this is not really going to be effective but we don't actually implement it this is actually very important for you to you got to take a stand referee the Lakers are the team encapsulation

of the well actually guy on Twitter Yeah. But yeah, it's just a matter of, you know, actually, you and Sean talked about this last week on the watchpot about succession. Like there's a lot of laws that exist and only the ones that actually, you know, are used in practice matter. So, yeah, this is like a good moment for the Lakers to put on some pressure. So the Lakers are actually my number one early season trend that I don't want to see go away. It's my, like, the thing I want to just keep going throughout the season. I know this isn't good for Lakers fans.

But right now, Succession's on, like you mentioned. Narcos Mexico, back for the season finale. Yellowstone's back. I got all my TV is on. But the number one show on television right now is Lakers' fourth quarters. Like, it is the full tapestry of human emotion is on display during Lakers' fourth quarters. I never wanted to stop. Can I just run through some of this?

stuff real quick for you. So, let's do it. Cardiac Lakers just never get heart medication, guys. As of Thursday afternoon, the Lakers average margin was, you know, victory loss. Like, their games are coming down to about less than a point. They barely beat Memphis. They go to O.T. against San Antonio for a win. They collapsed twice in the fourth to OKC. They beat Houston by a bucket. And their last two games against the Hornets in the Heat at home have been decided by three points each, both of which went to OT. Last night, or they were recording this on Thursday, so Wednesday night's game against the heat,

was fucking curb your enthusiasm. It was so good. It was five second calls, Russ heat checks, Malik Monks going nuts, guys are throwing the ball out of bounds, guys are colliding into people. Anthony Davis can't get a post-up,

but winds up getting like 14 rebounds in the last five minutes, it seemed like. Everything is happening. They're beatable on every night. They can also beat anyone. I don't know how long LeBron is going to be out there. Was the rumor that his abdominal injury might be like a month or something? I just want this to continue for as long as possible because it honestly feels like March Madness every night.

And even when they win, I don't even feel like they feel good about it because they almost lost all the time. Yeah, there's like there's this tenor with every Lakers game that's just like, well, we still need to be better than this. I mean, which is it's good that they see that. Last thing I guess the heat was really funny because it was a game that the Lakers kind of should have controlled, like, pretty much the moment that Jimmy Butler sprained his ankle. And there were a lot of reasons for the heat to lose. Like, they just weren't really shooting well all game. They were creating a ton of open threes. It took, like, a pretty bad Tyler Hero night, which we don't really see as much of anymore.

And, yeah, the sprained ankle, it took, like, you know, bam, just having, like, a really awkward fourth. And, like, the heat were just kind of like, here, take this game. this game. Like, let me, let us, let us miss new shots. Let us worry about Denver. Yeah, yeah. It took, it was, it was, it was funny to watch the Lakers come back because it was like, guys, like, this should have happened a while ago, but you just have like, you know, it's like, it's just like the late Russell Westbrook experience. Yeah. And then, you know, I know that they have, they're missing none, they're missing LeBron, they're missing Arisa, they're missing Austin Reeves. I think there's a couple of other guys hurt. They played like eight or nine guys against the heat. But,

Out of the chaos, a hero will rise. Every night, it seems like it's either Russ, triple double, but almost quadruple double with turnovers. It's last night, Malik Munk going, like, apparently he had to have LeBron explain who Vinnie Johnson was to him, which really touches my heart. Malik Munk Island is a place that I've bought land but have yet to develop because, you know, with architectural plans keep getting rejected by the city planning commission. But I'm really excited to build there. I've lived there for quite a while. he's exactly who I want to see going off in Lakers games early in the season. I know that later in the year it's going to probably get all figured out,

and it'll be AD and LeBron and Russ and Rondo and Mello or something. And it'll be like, yeah, you guys are kicking ass. But I don't know. While it's crazy chaotic like this, I'm really, really, really enjoying the Lakers experience. Yeah, it's honestly, it's a really good watch just between like, you know, you get like Frank Vogel just really frustrated on the bench. And then like you get like also Anthony Davis just, man,

there are games when you just don't know what you're there plays you just don't know what you're going to get with him he's just not really like i feel like lakers fans are pretty frustrated with him he's forgotten how to shoot threes um and he's like he's taking him though yeah oh loves taking them loves taking the midrange jumpers and yeah it's just like you just don't really know what you're going to get with him like there's moments like last night where bam kind of got the best of him um and just like everything around the lakers is always just a little bit more interesting and then like you bring in somebody like Russell Westbrook who has always just been like so polarizing. You never know what you're going to get.

It just creates a really unpredictable experience. It doesn't like, there's nothing like wrong going on in L.A., you know? Like that's kind of the strange thing with all of this is this is all very much exactly what we expected. You know, like Westbrook being able to, you know, win them some games with LeBron Hurt has actually like borne itself out. Like there are times that it does work out. but it is the Westbrook experience.

So it means that, like, yeah, there's many times that it might get to, like, you know, they might win the next two games. It might be five and three, but there's going to be, like, there's always going to be a regression. In the past, in the more recent years, like the last couple years of the AD LeBron experience,

there was a feeling of inevitability. So, like, even if they're down seven, down seven, down seven, you're just like, they're going to flip the switch, AD is going to go to the five. LeBron will key in, this is over. You know, like, that's it. But with Westbrook, it's like, hey, maybe this whole place will turn into a flea market.

Like, who knows? Maybe we'll start selling, like, second-hand goods in the aisles. Like, we never know what's going to happen here. It's like there is an absolute joker-like element to the team now. I can't wait so LeBron comes back because, like, don't know how he is going to control it. It's one thing to be like, J.R., stand there, shoot this. But, like, Westbrook is Westbrook. Yeah, I don't think you can control it.

Like that's always just been a fact with him. And it's not just Westbrook. It's just like, this is what the team is. Like, he wanted guys that had the ball in their hands more. Like, you don't really know. Like, Malik Monk is really not a guy that you know what you're going to get from, get anything from him either. So, yeah, it's fun, honestly.

Because, like, you go into these fourth quarters, and it's really just, like, anything can happen. Like, you might see, like, even, like, Lakers games in general, like, you just might see it open with, like, Russell four times in a row lobbying it to DeAndre or Dwight Howard. I think he's like second or first in the league and like in lob passes with the Lakers. So that's fun. That's like actually effective.

It's like a really good use of his skills. But then, you know, you just, you don't know if it's going to last the whole game. And like there's other games where it's just like turnover after turnover. Yeah, it's really interesting. The analogy I would make right now is that Lakers basketball is like partying in New Orleans. It's like when you go to New Orleans and like that third night you've been there, you're like, oh my God. Like this is each night in New Orleans is a month of going out. But then you're there free nights and you're just like, how is this still happening?

That's what Lakers games are like right now. Like any, there was like four or five things that happen in the heat game, like Dwight fouling out in 11 minutes. That would be the most notable thing that happened to any other basketball team in a week. And instead, that all happens in the fourth quarter to the Lakers. They can't get out of their own way. It's amazing stuff to watch. What's your first thing that you want to see continue throughout the season?

My hope for this season is just that Gary Payton the second is more than a flash in the pan. This is honestly one of my favorite storylines this season. Gary Payton the second has been like, he's been floating in the NBA for like in and around the NBA, just getting like different 10 day contracts,

like playing in the G League for five years. Which is a really long time to kind of just be like waiting on the edges. And like, I think the NBA is now at a place where it's almost conspired to allow him to exist. Like GP2 is like, He's like 6-2. He's really athletic.

He is not much of a shooter at all. It never really has been. It just doesn't really have like a lot of offensive skill. So this is just like, like if you look at what we consider to be like the prerequisites for being in the modern NBA, this is just a guy that like is not supposed to be here at all, right? but I think like what we've seen in the last few years is just like like Bruce Brown on the nets the more amazing the superstars get

the better they get at shooting and playmaking like the more attention they get like the more it kind of creates this strange lane for like the really gritty guys like the versatile like defenders and like the athletic guys who can like cut into space to actually exist That's a really good point.

So are there other people besides Bruce and Bruce Brown and Gary Payton that you're thinking of in particular? Those two are probably the ones that stick out the most in terms of like, you know, just looking like basketball players. Like I wrote an article a long time ago about how we're seeing like a lot more Draymond Green types in the NBA. Yeah. Because of the same phenomenon, like the more skilled all the stars get like the more room it leaves for like, you know, first of all you need the counterbalance if you're going to be a contender. Like you need toughness, you need defense. So the better of the team, like, the more valuable those traits are. That's why, like, you know, Bruce Brown can exist on the Nets because, like, KD, Hardin, Joe Harris.

Same thing now with the Warriors. Now they're back to kind of being the Warriors, right? But I think it's more of like a product of a really well-oiled offense than it is, like, what the players themselves are doing. So, yeah, like, if you have more teams like this, you'll see more of this type of player. But I don't know. I don't know if it's going to like, if it's going to create like, a new trend or anything, but I think, like, just seeing these guys, it's fun because it's like,

it just lets, like, first of all, we get to see something kind of new in basketball, but we also, like, you know, for a guy that's been, like, just knocking on the door for five years, just to see the conditions of the league change a little bit more so he can actually, like, maybe it's just cool, man, yeah, like, guys who are, like, almost out of the league, this is the PJ Tucker story writ large, where PJ was basically out in the wilderness before he became essentially the Swiss Army knife for contenders. and it's awesome to watch. That Warriors Timberwolves game on Wednesday night was like that the ecstasy in that

building right now is pretty awesome. Like you can tell how much they missed winning basketball. I'm surprised how like generous I'm feeling where I'm just like, I mean, not even generous because the Warriors pre-KD to me were just like about as good as basketball can be played. But watching those guys freak out over GP2 and Wiggins dunks and doing like, like synchronized swimming routines on the sideline, like falling out of their chairs on the bench and like the crowd's going nuts. It's really cool to see.

I've never seen Andreudala smile this much in the regular season. He seems incredibly happy to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm happy to watch them, you know, like take me back. You know, I feel like that's always been my consistent position with the, with the warriors. Generally speaking, the warriors have had, like, there's been a little bit of like who they, who they beaten yet stuff about the warriors.

Do you, do you think that like this is more a product of like a long, home stand with some less than great opposition, or do you think that this team is for real, for real? I actually, I picked the Warriors to win the West, so I kind of figured they'd be for real, for real, no matter what. But yeah, I know, I think that's like, you know, the schedule has been pretty soft. And I think the rubble will hit the road at some point because, I mean, Curry can't keep playing like, I mean, he can, but he can't, you know, not like all the time.

When Draymond tweaked his, I think they said thigh contusion, but I thought it about, might be the knee and I was like, ah, shit. Yeah, yeah, it kind of felt like, oh, okay, all right, we're going to kind of get into dark times a little bit more here. But I do think it'll be way easier than last season. Like when injuries hit them last season, they just weren't as deep. And I think they have, like, a couple more guys that can step up. They have a little bit more youth.

So I think that, like, I think they'll be fine. I think, like, the reason I picked them to win the championship is just that, like, of all the things that could break right for a team, they feel like the team that would have the most amount of things break, right? Like, I know it sounds like, it's almost like a little bit mystical, but it's also just kind of rooted in like, this is a very competent team. Like, when they aren't together, they've been happy to be together. They're really good problem solvers. Like, I think out of all of like, you know, every team kind of has like a series of questions going into a season about like, okay, well, you know, with the Warriors, it's like, what are we going to get out of the rookies, out of wise men?

Like, you know, is Clay going to be healthy? Like there's variables you can't control, but then there's also a lot of stuff that you can. And they just tend to, like, I kind of trust these guys to be able to figure out most of the stuff that they need to figure out. They just picked right this year. They picked right with the guys that they added. They picked right with like adding Kenny Atkinson to the coaching staff. Like everything about it just seems to have like slid right. And auto porter looks good.

Yeah. And there's talk that Clay could be back at Christmas. You know, they still haven't gotten Wiseman back. They haven't really gotten a ton out of commingo or moody yet. So it's like, it's kind of, it'll be really fascinating. I think also like, look, look, these kinds of like opens to the season to go 10 and 1, it buys you a lot of breathing room. Whereas like a team like the Lakers does have to like kind of scratch and claw now,

you know, a little bit. They don't want to be below sixth. And the plan does create a little bit of regular season tension, I think, in that way. Yeah, also, I mean, like, it kind of, it kind of also gives like all the younger guys on the team, all of the newer editions and the people who weren't part of the championship run, just like a sense that, oh, okay, this is actually serious. Like, we went 10 and 1 to start the season. Just having that beginning to give them like, okay, like this, now the perspective on this season

is like we can actually fight for a championship. I think that just changes individually, like the way that people, you know, just, you know, behave into seasons. And I think if you extrapolate that onto the Warriors guys, like, you know, I think a player like Andrew Wiggins is like much more likely to go and have a career year now if, Not to say that he is. Like the Wolves game was kind of like one of his first good games. After which, by the way, Curry was like,

Curry was low-key, like kind of, I don't know, like trying to like motivate him through the press it felt like. Did you see that? Yeah. You know, he said that he's going to text Wiggins, the dunk that he had over Kat before every game because like that's the type of Andrew Wiggins he wants to see. And he was just talking about like,

well, no, it's nice to get a preview. of like what he can look like when he's when he's being this aggressive, which I don't want to say it was backhanded, but it felt a little bit more like, you know, kind of pushing him to be like, come on, dude, like, just against your, like, now that you're playing, like, the best team. The NBA is full of guys who have the talent. Yeah, it's full of guys who have the talent to score 35 points tonight. You know what I mean? But they just don't do it for whatever reason. It's like, Malik Monk can do what he did last night. Andrew Wiggins can do what he did on Wednesday night. It's just there's the thing that makes you a star is being able to do it three.

to four times a week. Yeah, Kyle Kuzma the other day, against the Cavs, he said that the Cavs fans motivated him. I think they, like, they said something along the lines of like, you know, like, if you, you know, like Kyle Kuzma is like nobody without L.A. or something. You're nobody without LeBron. Or like nobody without LeBron. And he was basically just like right back at you.

And he was just like, you know, like that motivated me. And it was just funny because it was like, man, like, if you really like this, totally goes against the spirit of this podcast, which is just we're just trying to speak positive things into existence. But, like, Wigginson and Kyle Kuzma both have, they have plenty of doubters. Like, if they want to dig into the well and just do this all season, like they totally could.

Just get the chip on the shoulder going. Yeah, like bring back being motivated by slights. We're all trying to be a little too balanced here. Speaking of that Wizards Cavs game, here's my second one. And we haven't done this yet, so I'm excited to do it. It's a right of passage on the rail right now, which is two or more podcast hosts sound like they are on DMT talking about Evan Mowgli. Like we, we haven't really had the Evan Mowley conversation. He's my favorite basketball player to watch right now.

You know, when Kyle Mann went on Bill's Pod and they were throwing around names like KG and Akeem, it's a lot. You know what I mean? You can't get much higher than that. I just, I know that like a lot, there's a lot more to come. But I can't get over how much I love watching this guy play basketball. He basically is a complete basketball player 15 games into his career. Ever since Sexton went down, his usage is spiking. Chris Fawyer had a good piece in Cleveland.com just talking about what he's doing right now.

I'll just go through briefly just to say he is, well, first of all, it's worth mentioning that the Cavs in general, especially when they're featuring Mobley. They're currently fourth and a assist percentage, eighth and total passes, and 25th in Isos. So it's a team that shares the ball. It's a team that's moving the ball through Mobley, especially over these last couple of games. Already on defense, you guys know the drill.

I can't remember who they were playing, but there was like a play where I was like, I looked up and Mobley backpedaled the entire length of the court in transition to get back on defense, got to the paint, took him three strides to do that, and then exploded out to the three-point arc, to block, to like,

disrupt a three-point shot. Like, I've never seen defenders, like, do stuff like that. We've been talking for, like, 10 years about unicorns. I finally have seen one in the wild. It's really, really, really powerful. It really is. Evan Mobley is like, he's like what we think bowl bowl could be, you know? Like, we're all, we're a...

Sir, he's what we thought we thought we're going to be. He's what we thought we thought towns was going to be. Yeah, I'm projecting when I say we, I'm maybe, I mean, there are probably a couple of people that are just trying to manifest a real bull-bull career just because of how fun it would look. But yeah, he's probably like just one of the single most fun players to watch the NBA right now. He's like, it's so, it's almost like, because he's still so skinny too, right? Like it's like watching like a skeleton kind of like Traverse the Court. And then also like, oh, by the way, I'm actually, no, I'm strong enough to block this shot.

Yeah, it's a lot of fun. And then the cabs too, like, just like, they have like a weird thing going where they're playing a lot of big players at the same time. And it's like kind of working, but we'll kind of see if it does. But yeah, I don't know. And he's hitting like every shot too. Yeah, it's elbow jumpers. It's three pointers.

It's finishes, rim running. It's like, it's everything. He can go off the dribble. He can finish on a pick and roll. He has like a great two-man game with Rubio, a pretty good two-man game with Garland. I love how he plays with Jared Allen. It's, it's just every night. I want Cleveland to keep winning

so that his performances aren't happening in a vacuum. You know what I mean? Sometimes with rookies, you're like, oh, but they're only going to win like 28 games, but it's still cool to watch this guy cook. I want him to have Cleveland as a playoff contender. It's like that's what I think. The league needs it.

Mobley is just such an incredible, incredible player. I hope more and more people get to watch him. I wish they could, I wish they could flex Cleveland into all the New Orleans Pelicans National Games. Who would have thought, who would have thought that they were, the real action would be in Cleveland.

It's kind of like an increasing thing that's happening too in the league where all of these rookies that come in are just so smart. So my second, my second affirmation is just that like Scotty Barnes never hits a rookie wall. That's right. Yeah, that's, that's all I want. That's all I want for Scotty Barnes for the Raptors, man.

I feel like he's like this gift. He's like this gift that came to them for having to spend this whole season. Tampa, which they clearly hated. And it, like, just like, I mean, Matt, like, I don't know if this is, like, just, like, overly dramatic on their part. But, like, I remember hearing Maasai say that, like, he thought it set the franchise back by, like, five years or something. Now, I don't, he didn't say that.

He said that a while ago. I think he hadn't seen Scotty Barnes in a Raptors uniform at that point. Because, like, this is kind of, like, what you dream of happening. If you're a middling team, like, the Raptors, like, it's almost like what happened to the spurs when when david robinson got hurt and they got to draft tim duncan like not to say that scotty barnes is tim Duncan by any means but just like being able to get a player that's like this talented um just off of like a one season sort of like accidental not even tank but like we tried it was just like the circumstances didn't really

allow us to win and it's like you know the first year of the new lottery rules so that like you know they can step up to four like it's just i mean it's it's great for them and he is just so fun to watch. He's incredible. Yeah. He's like, he's always smiling. He's like the, I think he's like the single happiest person that I see on TV ever, especially with the shows that you mentioned being on.

Yeah, it's just, it's, it's so much fun to watch him. And he's like, he's bigger than Oji Anunovie, um, which is honestly like just a sentence that you should never be able to say about like a rookie wing ever. And like they just run with with him, you know, like they just defend. and run and like they will probably make the playoffs based on that and like that's that's pretty good I don't know it's just like it's they're a really fun team to watch this season and every every game he kind of does something new which is like always like the cool thing about rookies you know like we don't really dwell on this too much but you're absolutely right about the Tampa thing like the fact

that that team was just like playing in Florida is kind of unremarked upon I think in terms of like recent NBA history and the fact that a city didn't have their team in town even if they wouldn't have been able to attend games in person. I mean, there's something to be said about that. I'm so happy for Toronto Raptors fans that they get a guy like after losing Lowry, after losing Gasol, after losing, uh, after losing Kauai, obviously, for them to have like a guy who they can at least be like, this, this dude is ours for like four to seven years is really cool.

Do you think he's going to still, will the fit with him and OG and now see Akum coming back? Like, how do you see that working out? There's kind of like two different directions that could go. it's it's a lot like I mean I was I was trying to look at if it if it kind of compared to the cab situation just like with them playing like Allen Mobley mark in at the same time like having a Coro and stuff like just a bunch of defenders on the floor and it for some reason like it doesn't the cabs are strangely like not so they're not like they're getting killed on the offensive boards and they're not really blocking any shots which is weird I guess for for what

the personality is but mostly is contesting a lot of stuff but yeah, I know what you mean, yeah. Yeah. The Raptors, though, I mean, they are kind of actually what you would imagine with, like, a team full of guys that have, like, seven-foot wingspans. It's kind of, yeah. So actually, Dan Devine wrote a piece about this at the ringer today. So, and he talked about, like, they have, I mean, they have, like, multiple guys that can just defend.

And they, I think, like, they're leading the league and, like, points off turnovers. And I think that type of thing. is likely to continue because I think what we found in the finals is just that size compounds um like it's watching watching the bucks in the finals just like with the amount of size that they have around

Janus who is also like I mean he might he is like the rangiest player in the NBA probably like he is like the he is like the positional ideal of like all of these guys that the raptors have drafted over the last few years um like watching him I think it kind of made me realize that like if there ever is going to be an antidote to the Pace and Space Revolution. It's going to be a team that kind of looks like that.

Interesting. And I think that's kind of what the Raptors have built here. Like when they drafted Scotty, a lot of Raptors fans were upset because, well, first of all, everybody thought that Jalen Sucks should have been the number, number four pick. I think they obviously surprised a lot of people by taking Barnes. Yeah, replace Lowry with this guy who just went to the finals and was like the best player in the final four. Yeah.

Well, intuitively, it made a lot of sense because they need that guy. They still need that guy, right? Like, they don't have a lot of scoring. They don't have a lot of playmaking. Like, you know, OG Anonobi is like, they live and die with Oji on anobi. And like, that's just, you know, as much progress as he's made. Just not a sentence you really want to be saying ever.

Yeah, but you know what? Is it OG kind of like a different variation on what you're talking about with guys like GP2? Where it's like, oh, like when this role player gets a chance to be the featured star on the team. Yeah, maybe the Raptors aren't like what they were three seasons ago or something. but look at what he's doing with this opportunity. Yeah, I think the difference with him is probably just like

the ability to actually create some shots. Like he's kind of developing more into a traditional perimeter player, but he does have that. And like, yeah, like that is what allowed him to stay on the floor in the early seasons, like when he couldn't handle the ball and like he couldn't step back and shoot and everything too. Like it was just more, yeah, like, because like the Raptors were a lesser version of a team.

that couldn't really defend. Right. Yeah. Like they weren't championship level, but they needed to counterbalance and have, you know, have a guy like him, like, be able to play. That's kind of how a lot of these guys have gotten on the floor, actually. Yeah, that's true. I mean, like, the theme of what we're kind of talking about with OG,

or with, with Mobley and Barnes, and it has been such a, like, delightful rookie class. I love watching Giddy. I like watching Jalen Green. I enjoyed watching Cade versus Jailam last night on Wednesday. Yeah. It's the thing that I like, though, is we're appreciating guys for all these different things that they can do beyond scoring or besides scoring.

You know, like Scotty Barnes's Swiss Army knife-ishness is great. Mowgli's defense is incredible. You know, Giddy does a lot of like hockey assist stuff that I really like watching. It's just really cool to see like these different elements of basketball get highlighted earlier part of the season as the, like, he's in his bag stuff has been sort of tamped down a little bit. And even if he's in his bag, and this kind of leads me to. my next one that I want to talk about. There's a tons of different ways to score. And if you want to see every single way you can score basketball,

watch Chicago Bulls. So, Sir and I talked a little bit about Chicago earlier when I think we were getting into the beginning of the season, and I think we had some discussions about whether or not Chicago was a major media market or not. And I think that got misinterpreted as not like game of bulls. But I have to say that they are by far, like, like one of my favorite things to watch these opening 15 games.

the combination of Levine, DeRosen, Lonzo and Caruso, whether on the floor together, a closing or not, has been really awesome to watch. They have been kind of like this sneaky, positionless basketball team. They somehow are like holding their own on defense.

I think they are the sixth defensive rating team, six offensive rating team, maybe fourth net rating team right now. Two guys in the top ten of scoring with Levine and DeRosen. Lonzo looks like he's going to have a career year. Caruso is exactly what was on the package when you bought it. You know, it's just like toughness, extra passes, a lot of grit, a lot of going, getting after like loose ball bullshit that like, you know, the Lakers could really probably use.

And the thing I love about the Bulls experience right now is those guys are killers in the fourth quarter. They have like the best fourth quarter scoring margin right now. They did it to Boston. They did it last night to Dallas. Like essentially when you lose that lead to them in the fourth quarter, fourth quarter. They basically walk away with the game. Yeah, they're too competent offensively to lose when you have a lead on them or when they have when they have a lead on you. Yeah, one of one of the responses that we got to to the podcast we recorded just kind of like early season, you know,

preseason overreactions was somebody saying that we were underrating the Bulls in a podcast in which I said that they were going to be a top four seed. I think it was because I reiterated that that 538 had them ranked 10th in the Eastern Conference. I was really. wrong though because they are the second the second seat in the east right now. Is the, are the wizards the first? She was right. She was right.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everything has gone right. Everything that you kind of would have hoped to see, the stuff that we were talking about in the preseason, like, you know, the backcourt defense with Lanzo and Caruso, it's enough, you know, like it'll hold you down. And like, DeMarre is really actually trying. I think that's actually something that we didn't talk about in an element that we probably

don't talk about enough. Like, sometimes I think that, like, when there's a free agency signing or a trade, like, we think that defense is going to translate. And if it's an effort issue, we should just never make that assumption, like, ever. Like, a different scenario is always just going to get somebody to either they try less or try more based on whatever is happening. Like, that is kind of just how it goes. Unless you're, you know, unless you're a player that needs to stay in the league, like,

there are guys who play defense every night because, like, you know, that's their job. and like that's how they keep in it. But for a guy like DeMarie Rosen, like, just he's trying now. And it reminded me of like late season Raptors before he got traded where he was actually trying to be all these things that you could be for a championship contender. He just wasn't doing that in San Antonio. He was growing his game in other ways, like becoming a playmaker. But he obviously wasn't doing that in San Antonio because like, honestly, what's the point?

And now he's taking like that version and everything he learned there. And he's like one of their best playmakers. Yeah. alongside like, you know, being an incredible post-mismatch for them, like being amazing in isolation, alongside Levine. Like, it's just, he's, he's fit in so well. And another guy's fit in so well is Lonzo, too. Like, everything that you would have hoped to see happen.

Lanzo's going to cost Griffin his job. Like, a lot of things are going to cost Griffin's job, but the Lanzo thing specifically will cost Griffin his job in New Orleans. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it might. I mean, I think, like you said, yes. Like, it will.

a long a long list of potential things but yeah it's just really fun to watch like I love good like offensive synchronic city you know it's just fun and like the positioning is kind of strange too

like it's like what is Demar really doing um you know like where do you like sometimes he's like kind of down low other times he's not like it's just fun to watch and also like shout out Billy Donovan like I feel like if you give Billy Donovan Billy Donovan like some ingredients he'll find something interesting to make out of it. Yeah, I'm really, I'm happy for Billy Donovan because I think that like the Oklahoma

City thing did not like the potential wasn't realized when he first arrived there like to have like possibly maybe not a dynasty, but he had two of the best players in the NBA on his team and it didn't work out. I love, love, love how each one of these guys like in the, has like a micro identity within the collective of all these guards out on the floor like demar's a professional. Zach Levine, I know I just was like kind of shit talking, you know,

guys in their bag. Like that dude definitely gets all the tote bags from all his like sponsorships of public radio. Like he has like all these like little moves that he pulls. Like he's doing a lot of stuff with like it's not a rip through move. But like while he's on the on the dribble, he'll just like move the basketball around a lot so that it's a like you can't get it away from him.

but B, he's almost got like passing angles. It's like a read pat, like a run pass option in football, like where he's like, if this is there, then I have like a cut pass or I have like a kickout, but I can also just go up for the for the bucket. It's really cool. And then Lonzo is obviously the facilitator, although he's also now turning into fucking Ray Allen. And Caruso does everything in between.

He's the mortar guy. So there's really, really like enjoyable. How fun is it that we have all these like newer teams kind of this year to kind of get invested in? I don't like seeing Portland suffer. Shout out to our producer Chris Sutton. But like it's fun to have like some different teams in the spotlight this season. Yeah.

No, it is. It's like, you know, I think it's weird. I think like the season before it was almost like we were kind of sick of all of the movement. But, you know, I think, you know, a couple of necessary shakeups. And also just like when people get where they want to go, I think that they tend to just be happier as well. Like I think what we're seeing in Chicago is just like, you know, know, the two free agency signings of Lonzo and Damar, that was the first time in both of their careers that they've, like, chosen to go to a different team, like, the first, like, real decision

that they've made. And, like, they both chose places that, like, where they, their complementary skill sets are also just, like, unique to the team. And I think, you know, it just, like, it lends itself to just, like, good vibes, honestly. Like, it allows, like, people to, to feel valued, I guess. also really good home announcers if you're watching the bulls. Yeah. Oh my God. That's actually one of the best parts about the Bulls being back. It's just like the Bulls announcers are just next level when the Bulls are good. What's your last affirmation before we get out of here? My last affirmation is actually related to the rookies as well.

So Kate Cunningham versus Jalen Green, we got our first our first matchup. Yeah, yeah, one versus two. and I mean we're going to be seeing this forever, right? Like, I mean, they've both shown enough for us to know that they'll be around. And it was a lot of fun, but what I like the most about it, first of all, actually, Kate had, like, one of his best games. I think he actually had his best game so far. Like, he's kind of, he's starting to make his way back.

Like, he was coming off an injury. And I think that he was, like, a little bit rusty in the first few games. But, like, he's actually, every single game he's played, he's gotten better. And he had 20 points last night. So, like, you know, it's nice to see him get going. And I mean, Jalen's just like, he's a really explosive score. I feel like he's going to have a lot of highlight real nights this season. But after the game, Jalen, not Jalen, actually, Cade, in response to basically what has been an offseason of Jalen just doing a tour of I should have been the number one pick and like really like doing the whole chip on my shoulder thing.

So it was actually pretty funny. So in the fourth quarter of, I think it was the fourth quarter of this game in which Jalen also had a turnover and a charge against Cade when Cade was guarding him. Like Cade was doing a pretty good job. But he had this dunk as well in which Cade was kind of on help side, but he was basically just kind of in the general location. Like you could not call this like a dunk on Cade Cunningham. But, you know, Jalen after dunking in the general direction of Cade Cunningham, start screaming in his face. And then after the game, Cade Cunningham is basically just like, he calls it fake beef essentially. He was like, oh, yeah, like, I don't know.

He's just doing that for the cameras, basically. Which is just, I mean, the most incredible diss, especially for like two 20-year-olds. Like, I just don't think that there's something worse that you could say to, like, Gen Z than to say, like, oh, it's really obvious that you're chasing Cloud right now. and like the, you know, the narrative that you're projecting online, like, I can kind of see through it. This is still, though, you, you, you, you, you want more, you want more grievances. You don't, you want, like, you want that, like, the Jimmy Butler, Nicola Yokic energy of, like, let's, let's not always be pals, right? Yeah, well, yeah, I think we're seeing more of that with these, with this generation, because, like,

I think last, like, this last generation of guys that was friends, like, they were friends, but they weren't like best friends that grew up together for the most part right um like kate cunningham robed with scotty barns and and moses moody right like in like in high school like he is friends with those guys like they are close so like they are close enough to really really want to beat each other jeline i mean jaylin and kate i don't know but i think that there's like that extra level like where like sometimes you're like if you're friends with somebody but you're not like that close. Like you might go at them in a competitive scenario,

but you're not really going to get into that trash talk zone as much because like there's boundaries still, right? Whereas like if somebody's like actually like one of your best friends, like you'll say anything to them, you definitely won't want to lose to them. You'll make it very clear that you won't want to lose to them. I mean, I mean, I might just, all this stuff might be projection.

But no, but as soon as you start putting guys in order of like a draft order like that, I think it inevitably creates like a competitive narrative. Yeah, yeah. And I think like if you know each other, it's just going to make you a little bit more competitive. And as an observer, there's a referendum happening about like what's valuable in basketball. So is it like Cade Cunningham like routinely making the right play every time down even if like athletically it seems like he's a little bit more in third gear than Jalen Green is? Or is it Evan Mowbly being able to defend five positions or is it Scotty Barnes being able to play five positions on offense and defense? Like that's that that's the kind of stuff that we're being asked now when you watch these guys play. Yeah, the stuff that these guys all have to do has never been, like, more variable.

And it's created, like, the same kind of player in a lot of ways, too, which is, like, also going to lead to some of these rivalries as well. Like, Kate and Jalen, they're going to be guarding each other, right? Like, they're going to be trying to do the same things. And, like, they're essentially, like, Kate is, like, Kate's, like, like, very just, like, fundamentally sound makes the right play, like, isn't very flashy. and then Jalen's more like, you know, he's more exuberant and like, you know, probably like more emotional. I mean, he's definitely like, you know, he's getting into all of this stuff more too.

And it's like, I don't know, I'm just, I'm just, I'm ready to enjoy this dynamic for the next few years. Like I'm ready for like the next like, like, like KG, Tim Duncan, like KG trying to talk shit to Tim Duncan and Tim Duncan just like, hey, yeah, yeah, nice try. Oh, damn. Like, it'll be fun. It'll be fun. I hope that Kade sticks to this and I hope that Jalen like doesn't get discouraged by it. It just makes Jailen crazy. Yeah, no, I don't want him to get discouraged by it. Like, you know, if that's like what's going to get you going, do it. Like, I love to see it. Okay. Um, Siri, thank you so much for joining me today on the answer. I think we have a bunch of things that we're excited for for the rest of the season that we want to keep

seeing. Uh, you can check out shows all week on the ringer NBA show. And Siri, thank you so much for joining me today. Chris Sutton was our producer. We'll be back next week.