The Ringer NBA Show - The Ceiling For the Clippers, Nets Momentum without Irving, and Love Chokes | Heat Check

Episode Date: December 2, 2019

Instant Replay (03:16): The Clippers and Raptors had wonderful games with no signs of slowing down. Also, James Harden had a moment. The Main Event (21:25): The gang looks closely at the Nets in Kyrie Irving’s absence and his inevitable return. Brooklyn seems to be doing just fine without him. Will he be hindering them or putting more gas in the tank? Good Call/Bad Call (32:23): The Bulls' optimism through movie quotes, love chokes in Philly, and cussing in Boston.Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Haley O’Shaughnessy, Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the NBA show, Heat Check on the Ringer podcast network, is brought to you by State Farm, just like basketball. The game of life is unpredictable. Talk to a state farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. All kinds of unpredictable things happened over the Thanksgiving holiday in the NBA like James Harden going for 60 points in three quarters. And then sitting was only two off of his career high. I thought he was going to go for 80 instead he sat down. That was unexpected. You should get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected.

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your first order. And now, heat check. Welcome to heat check. I'm your host John Gonzalez, joined as I will be every week by our new producer, Steve Alman. A belated happy Thanksgiving to you, sir. A happy Thanksgiving to you as well. How did it go for you? I would imagine that there were some vegan-related items on your Thanksgiving that perhaps you would not have experienced in Chicago, because now you're in Southern California. Yes. It's an ongoing trend for a lot of these people. And I got to say this mushroom gravy.

Yeah. Not exactly for me. It wasn't for you? No, no, I'm going to have to say that. I like mushrooms and I like gravy. It sounds delicious. Yeah, but you'd be surprised. Yeah.

The longer you stay here, the more that that will happen to you. Godspeed on your California travels. And thanks to all of you for listening. A reminder to please rate and review us. And don't forget about all the great MBA content on the ringer.com. Young Palo Esco blog wrote about Trey Young making the leap. He also has his biggest questions of the week column, which runs every Monday. This one is centered on whether the Bucks are the league's best team and other questions.

Check that out. Also be sure to read Zach Cram on why the post up is deader than dead in the NBA. Later on in the show, we'll discuss Kyrie Irving and how the Nets have been surprisingly good without him and whether or not that is going to be a thing, and maybe it's already a thing. But first, let's review the latest news from around the league and bring in our regular contributors, Dan and Haley. All right, one of them's in studio. One of them is way across the country in our NYCHQ. It's He-Chek coast to coast with Haley and Dan.

Hi, guys. Hey, guns. Hey, guns. Great to see you. Happy Thanksgiving belated to both of you. We have all kinds of fun stuff to discuss from the long weekend in the NBA. So let's review all of that with NBA, instant replay. All right.

just some eye-popping stuff that happened over the weekend, guys. First, the Clippers put up 150 points against the Wizards. The Wizards have a good offense. Not good enough, though. They lost by 25 points to the Clippers. Afterwards, Kauai Leonard said he still thinks it's going to take time for them to learn each other. Haley, they put up 150, and he thinks that they have room for improvement. I love it.

What's the ceiling? What was that Michael Jordan quote? The ceiling is the floor? Sure. The ceiling is the roof. The ceiling is the roof. I mean, like I... It was a Twitter thing.

The ceiling is the floor. The ceiling is the roof is the sky is the galaxy for the Clippers. I, I... Quote me. I will. I'll write all that down. I was... I had three of these eye-popping things to lead off the headlines.

And I just initially thought it would only be two. And then I woke up this morning and saw what the Clippers did. Because I didn't end up watching the game. And Dan, 150 points. Yeah. The Wizard. They're good for that. They will allow you to walk into their house and stomp your feet on their couch and just

sort of take whatever you want out of the cabinets in the pantry and do kind of whatever the hell you want to them. But the Clippers are going to be a team that can do that. We're still, I think, I think Kauai is right. Like, they're kind of still figuring out what it looks like with him and Paul George together. It hasn't been all that many games, all that many minutes yet. But they've looked absolutely sensational when they've had those two guys on the core, on the

court rather, it's about plus 9.6 per 100 with the two of them. And as they get more familiar with one another and the rotations shake out, it should only go better from there. Equally eye popping, perhaps even more impressive. The Toronto Raptors absolutely ruined the Utah Jazz, perhaps more impressive because of the competition, as Dan said. The Wizard's not so great on defense. The Jazz is known for defense.

The Raptors put up 77 in the first half haley against the Jazz one on to win by 20. According to Tim Reynolds, it is the biggest halftime lead in NBA, the season, the biggest halftime lead in Raptors history, the biggest halftime deficit in jazz history, tied for the eighth biggest margin, halftime margin in NBA history. Obviously, the Raptors sort of took their foot off the gas a little bit, but holy hell, what a performance. Yeah, I mean, the jazz just love making history, right? Do the ceiling again. Do the ceiling thing again. The ceiling is the roof for the Raptors, which none of us thought, and I want to add that Kyle Lowry is still not back. And there's no way that this is like some kind of, I mean,

he wouldn't be the Ewing and the Ewing theory anyway in this situation. But there's no way that him being gone is the reason that they're having success. They're just only going to be more successful when he comes back. Dan, they're going to get better. This is a really good team. Yeah, second best point differential in the NBA so far. It's not like super fluky. They've played a ESPN strength of schedule has them at number 10 overall.

So like they've played tough teams. They've had injuries, as Haley mentioned with Lowry and Serge Abaka being out. You know, it's just they've, Nick Nurse has sort of had to find a bench and he's found some contributors there through the injuries, guys like Terrence Davis and Chris Boucher helping out. Skokom's been like a second tier MVP candidate so far. There's no reason to believe that this is just going to house a cards fall apart. Really, really impressive start from the Raptors.

Last one that grabbed my attention. James Harden went for 60 points in three quarters against the Atlanta Hawks, two points off his career. Hi, only Kobe and Clay have done that. He sat in the fourth quarter. Dan, I'll go back to you on this one. Are you surprised that he sat and that he didn't just try to like, go for 80. I mean, there's no way in hell

Kobe would have sat. Well, I love the moment where it's like him watching the scoreboard and seeing that he's like two points to have his career high and then he's out and going like, you see him kind of like shrug meme and like, what the fuck? Why am I not going for this? As well, you should have that reaction, James Harden.

Go get yours. I think it's, uh, it was wild that Mike Dantone was like, yeah, no, we'll let him kind of go with that. And now it really has me wondering, like, if he just got sent out there and let go, What would be? Haley, where would his ceiling be in that sort of scoring scenario? The attic.

The attic. The ceiling. Stratosphere. I love that he didn't. I mean, no, I would have loved to see him go for it too. But it's like people already fucking hate him this year and last year and think that he's like cheating somehow by, you know, gaming the system. Whatever. I love that he's like, I'm not going to play basketball the way you want me to play basketball.

I'm just surprised that he didn't go for it. It feels like, you know... It's a long season, Gans. It's a long... Have you ever heard that expression? I just heard it the other day. It's a long season. It's a long season.

But this seemed like a good opportunity for him to just go out and get his, but maybe next time. All right. So for basketball purposes, for actual competition, team purposes, the Lakers and the Mavs played each other. This was a fun game. The Mavs beat the Lakers by 14 in L.A. And they did it in those funky, umbrae jerseys that we've discussed previously.

which, by the way, Dan, you're laughing. Initially, we were all out on it. We did a good call, bad call on this, and it was a decidedly bad call. It's kind of growing on me. They're kind of grown. Like, they're so bad. Like, everybody in studio, for those of you who can't see this because it's a podcast, as we've established, they're all shaking their heads and disgust at me. They're so bad, they're kind of good.

No. Like, I don't know. I don't know. They're kind of grown on me. But anyway, the Mavs snapped the Lakers 10 game win streak. Luca was incredible. One rebound shy of yet another triple-d. He averaged a 30-point triple double in November.

Haley O'Shaughnessy, refresh my memory at the beginning of the season when you and Dan became regulars here, were you or were you not the only heat check member who predicted that the Mavs would make the playoffs? I was the only heat check member who predicted that the Mavs would make the playoffs. You are, as I've said, many times the smartest person on this show. We clearly underestimated both Luka and the Mazz, but you did not. Yeah, I mean, I think that I'm not going to say that you guys didn't pay attention to Luka. last year, but there's just no way that he wouldn't be a player who wouldn't grow on this. I don't think that he was the kind of guy who would regress just because he already looked

like such a professional because he was a professional before. And he's already doing things like, God, that step back three in LeBron's face in the fourth quarter. And he straight up looked better than AD and LeBron in that game, although it came out later that neither of them was feeling very well as happens when you have off games, I guess. These things happen. Dan Devine, the Dallas Mavericks, I will say that I'm surprised by them as we record this podcast. They're 13 and 6. It puts them fourth in the Western Conference.

I thought that if they were going to, and you know, who knows, it is early. I know Haley hates that saying, but it is early. We're only about a quarter of the way through the season. Maybe that changes one way or the other. But I'm surprised personally that they're this good as a team. They've got a lot of depth. The rotations that Carlisle has used to have been interesting. He's kept Luca and KP together.

Are you buying them in the Western Conver? conference long term. I still think I would, I mean, as risk of sounding like a hater, I think I would still probably pick either of the LA teams over them in a series. I just think the mismatch problems that you could create with LeBron and AD or Paul George and Kauai Leonard together, like would just be too much for Dallas to handle in a short series. But I think they've really firmly established himself in the tier below that with, you know,

Houston and Denver and sort of the other teams in that kind of very good tier of the West. And they're building a resume. They're now six and three against other teams that would be in the playoffs if it started today. Four and two against other Western teams. They look solid and strong. As you said, figuring out the rotation and the bench, they've got enough to be able to sort of survive when Luca's off the floor. Porzingis gets time to sort of get himself rolling and now he's going to be tethered to Luca. It's the right way for all that to sort of play out.

And Luca at this level gives them a chance against basically anybody. I really like the mouse, but I do have a couple of postscripts. They had last night a huge game from Justin Jackson. He was three for five from the three-point line, 15 points. But I will say that Kings fans will tell you that he can be very inconsistent. And they also had a good game from Wright, who also will be essential, but he can also kind of not all the time have the intensity. So there are some factors there that perhaps, like especially against the clippers,

they don't necessarily have the same amount of depth and things have to go right. But I don't really see a reason why things can't go right. Yeah, the depth is relative for sure. I would like to see more and expected more from Dilan Wright. And yet, I think on the whole, the Mavs are exceeding at least my expectations. So are the Lakers, frankly. They're 17 and 3. They were until they got stopped by the Mavericks off to their best start since the 0809 season.

They are fourth in net rating, fifth in defense, six at offense. They had won 10 straight until that Mavs lost for the first time since 2009 and 10. As that Cram pointed out, though, however, and this is where it. gets a little interesting. I love when Zach throws a wrench into the works here. All 10 wins were versus teams with losing records. And as Young Palo pointed out, 10 of the 14 games that they will have in December come against teams over 500. We're going to see what the Lakers are made of here. Do you think that the Lakers are the best team in the NBA as they had looked record-wise? Or are you wondering whether we'll be divested of that in December? I know that you love when I don't take a

strong opinion here, but I'm still, I'm not sold on them being the best team in the NBA, just because there's a lot of others that have to reach their ceiling. We were just talking about Kauai saying that they haven't figured out him in PG. And then this is the sixth time that they've played a team, the only of the six time this season that they've played a team with a winning record. But on the positive side, you said this is their best start since 08-09. They won in 09. That's a good point.

This is a good history lesson by you. Dan Devine, LeBron James, you just wrote about him and why he. He's sort of moving the chess pieces around the board and has this all figured out here. Have we not to say, it's very difficult to say that we have forgotten about or slept on LeBron James, given who he is. But last season was a disappointment. And this year is going certainly to his plan. Are you buying LeBron James and the Lakers long term this season doing exactly what they've done so far, which is leading the Western Conference? I do think they're going to be right at the top of the Westall season long.

I mean, the thing that I wrote about for the day after Thanksgiving, so everybody was hung over what I posted that, really ideal times for a think piece. But was that, you know, LeBron for as long as we can remember has been sort of the queen on the chessboard, the guy who can manipulate every matchup, every, you know, sort of figure out how to move everything around the floor to maximum effect. He's also done that in like the superstructure of the league

with his short, you know, one plus one contracts and player movement and sort of agency in terms of how he wants to coordinate his career. and his big one now has been bringing in Anthony Davis, figuring out a way to make that work and then reorganizing the Lakers from last year's unsuccessful model into this new one. The big thing that I want to watch for, though, is because the idea with Anthony Davis was it makes LeBron's life easier and it'll give him a chance to kind of, you know, rest and manage himself throughout the course of the season. And so far, they've only been, they've actually been outscored by 2.5 points per 100 possessions when AD's on the court and LeBron's not on the court. that's from cleaning the glass. So if they're awesome when they're both on the court, they're awesome when LeBron's on without AD and they haven't been good in AD, no LeBron minute.

So like that's going to be something to watch as a season goes on because you can't have LeBron playing this much that, you know, that well all season long and expected to keep going this way. But so far, I think you have to like what you've seen. As Palo and Cram said, I want to see what happens in December, but I'm encouraged so far. A couple of returns to discuss here. Carmelo Anthony is back.

I don't know what to make of this. I will throw it to the two of you. They're three and three with Carmelo in the lineup. He's averaging close to 18 points per game, six rebounds to assist. He's shooting 37% from three. Here's the one that's very surprising to me, Haley. He's playing 30 minutes per game. It's not like he hadn't played in over a year.

And now he's sucking up like a significant amount of time because they need him to. I'm just floored by that. Well, that was their sell to him. You know, when they called him, they were like, hey, we really need you and you really need us. And he was like, well, okay, I guess I do. But I'm still selling on the Blazers and on Mello because defense is incredibly important. Defense is incredibly important.

And he has, it's really good that he's been shooting better from three because they need him to be a spot-up shooter. I also don't know that that will maintain throughout the season. But he's undeniably been a spark for them compared to where I think the Blazers should be. No. Yeah, Dan, Melo said when he came back that this isn't a farewell tour. Is he right? What does he have left? Well, I think it might be right if what Mello winds up being is like, I don't know,

a stretch five at this point in his career. Like, we might have blown right past Mello at the four to like Mello as a small ball stretch five right now. Like, it's weird. He's taking way more of his shots at the rim than he has in years, fewer, a smaller share of his shots from three, but it's kind of like making things work better. He's finishing better inside than he has in a handful of seasons. The defense is a problem.

Obviously, if you expect him to be a rim protector or the last line of defense, that's going to be an issue. But he's still better than what Portland was able to throw out before. So if what you're asking is like, come be a release valve offensive player, help us juice up our offense so that we outscore people when you're on the floor, even if we're giving up a lot of points defensively. Maybe there is a life after, you know, the. the year-long siesta for Mello.

And it's been kind of cool to watch. Like, I don't know that I believe this is going to keep going. The three wins they have are two of them are over, two of them are over a really bad Bulls team and won against the Thunder. But on the other hand, the Blazers sucked against bad teams before this. Like, there's no gimmies for this team. Maybe there's something to be said for what Mello can do at this point. It's been kind of cool to watch it all develop.

Yeah, I don't know what to make of it, but it has been interesting to watch. Last return to wrap up headlines here. Another guy who's back, kind of. Dion Waiters is back. He practiced with the heat after being suspended for 10 games for reportedly taking a gummy on a team flight that led to a panic attack.

He issued a statement where he apologized to teammates, coaches, basketball staff, fans, the entire organization. All of you listening for heat check, basically everybody everywhere. He said he was wrong and he takes responsibility for what happened and he's sorry for what he put everybody through.

Spolstra said his conditioning is, quote, at least at the level where we can work with him. He did not play versus the Nets. Haley O'Shaughnessy and Dan Devine and thought it up to both of you. What's the path here for Deion and the heat? Are we going to actually see him play? He's owed $12.1 million in total this season and $12.2 next when he becomes a free agent. Not going well for Deon despite the Mayacalpa.

That is the worst semi-positive endorsement you can give what's both said. I mean, like also why would his conditioning have been this bad? You can't work out in the meantime. What after? I mean, it's tough to get. You can smoke or however you want to indulge in weed and then go about your day. Trust me. You don't have to like be in a hospital bed the entire time.

So I don't know why his conditioning would be this bad, except for this speaks to Dion Waiters. He was also suspended before any of this happened in the preseason. He did not play in the season opener for a good reason. I mean, this is like a repetitive thing. It's not going well. Dan Devine is our heat check resident gummy expert. What say you on getting up off the couch to practice? to me, I would just want to put on a movie or something.

I would say, if nothing else, I think Dion Waiters deserves credit for being at at least the level where you can work with him conditioning-wise. I'm not there. I'll be honest with you. It's been a tough few months. I'm not at that level of heat conditioning. If the question is, what's the path for Deon? I don't think there isn't one.

At this point, the heat are 14 and 5. They're one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. They go like a legit 11 or 12 deep with all the rookies they've brought in. And they're bench wings right now. their bench perimeter group is Justice Winslow, Goran Dragich, and Tyler Hero. Who of which of those guys should Deon Waiters be taking their minutes? I don't see one. It seems like without an injury or a trade, both possible, there's not really a good reason

to get him back into the rotation and mess up a good thing. We'll continue to monitor that for Deion. We'll see if he gets back on the court, a couple of injuries as well to keep track of John Moran, who's been absolutely killing it and is by far and away the favorite for rookie of the year. He's out and week to week with back spasms and then Marcus Smart left the game against the Knicks with an abdominal injury. He missed about a month last season with an oblique injury. So something for us to pay attention to there. That was NBA instant replay before we go to the main event. Let's take a quick break for a word from our sponsors. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place

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All right, so the Nets have been interesting here, guys, gang, to stay on brand. Kari Irving has been out for a while. He set out nine straight games with a shoulder impingement. The Nets just lost on Sunday to the Miami Heat. And yet, the Nets are six and three without one Kyrie Irvin. They beat the Celtics at home on Friday. afterwards, a bunch of guys, including Marcus Smart and Kemper Walker, went over and hugged him. Jason Tatum said that they still talk.

Marcus Smart said there's no hard feelings. And in fact, he said, quite frankly, and I believe this, he gave this quote to our guy, Timbont, Temps. Quite frankly, I'm really honestly tired of hearing about Kyrie. Kyrie is no longer with the Boston Celtics, and it's a slap across the face of everybody on this team that's here now to keep hearing about Kyrie's name. So he was not really loving that. I don't blame him for that, but do you buy Haley that there's no hard feelings? Because Boston booed the living shit out of him in a win at the Garden last week over the Nets. They really enjoyed booing Karee, and that's not surprising.

And as I said last week, as a Philadelphia, and it's my God-given right to boo. Boston and Philadelphia, extremely similar cities despite the fact that both cities would hate hearing that. Do you buy that there's no hard feeling? Fans, myself included, can say we as much as possible, but they're very different from the team. and they don't see what goes on with the team. I truly do believe this. I also heard Marcus Smart on Zach Lowe's podcast, and he kind of said the same thing.

He just said, it didn't work out. And you know what? You can have two very lovely people in a relationship, and it can just not work out. Yeah, these things happen. And yet, you know, I get why, Dan, Boston fans were worked up about this. Because, look, he got traded there, so that's not his fault. But he did so much shit last year at the beginning of the year with the commercial

and saying, like, you know, my plan is to be, to have. have my jersey retired in the rafters and, you know, I'll be here as long as you'll have me. And then all of a sudden it was, well, you know, why are you asking me these questions and let's figure it out in June and July? Yeah, I mean, I think we have to keep in mind the, at least the Kyrie's side of that story, which was I had every intention of wanting to be here long term. The beginning of the season happens. He has a death in the family that kind of shakes him and messes things up for him and

puts him in a very different headspace. that plus the struggles throughout the beginning part of the season winds up spiraling. And, you know, he just felt like he needed a fresh start. And, you know, every if the people on the Celtics and the people with the Celtics are comfortable with moving forward from that, that's on them. I don't blame Celtics fans for feeling like you have to, you can't tell the story of where the Celtics are and where they're going to go for the next handful of years without saying, without telling the part about Kyrie getting there and things not going

the way that they intended to because there's draft picks that went into. that. There's a trade that went into that. There's sort of plans and ideas. Remember, it's not too long ago we were talking about like the next version of the Celtics being Kyrie and Anthony Davis. Like things changed so drastically based on that like butterfly effect kind of thing. But, you know, they're on to sort of a new path and the Celtics seem to be doing great with it. I think the interesting part to me is like where the nets kind of go from here. Yes. Yeah. More interesting than Boston being upset about how things didn't work out with Kyrie is very much how things are working out in Brooklyn without Kyrie.

Again, they lost to the Miami Heat, but taking that aside, they've won the Nets have won five of their last seven. They've looked really good without Kyrie Irvin, especially Spencer Dinwiddie has looked good. Kenny Atkinson called him a difference maker. Haley, how will that change when Kyrie gets back out there? And are you surprised by how good the Nets have looked

by extracting Kyrie and giving more run to Spencer Dinwiddie? I wouldn't say surprised because we saw, the Nets last year, pull off what they did short-handed. And then also we saw the Celtics two years ago pull off what they did when Kairi left the court. But I also wouldn't blame this on Kairi either. This is not as easy as incorporating Paul George back into the clippers. I mean, Kyrie is a ball-dominant guard. It's just going to take some time. And the Nets are fortunate that they have players like Spencer Didwitty who can step in and have big games. But ultimately, they're going to need Kairi. Last night after the game, Joe

Harris said we live by Dinwiddie and die by Dinwiddie, something like that down the stretch. That's what you need Kyrie Arbing for. It will just take time. It's just not as easy to insert him into a team as it is a player like Paul George. Dan Haley brings up a good point. I don't think that it's fair to blame it all on just like the extraction of Kyrie either because don't forget, Karis Lavert was having a pretty good season. And I don't have Karis Lavert either. And I don't hear anybody going, oh, right, they're a better team just because Karis Lavert's not on the floor. And, you know, Garrett Temple's getting more run. But it is interesting.

And as these things tend to go, there is sort of a bubbling conversation about, you know, the Nets playing better without Kyrie Irving. Is it already a thing that people will talk about? It's certainly a thing people will talk about because it's, you know, like whatever, like the idea in journalism of like once is a, can be a fluke, twice as a coincidence, three times is a trend. And it's like if these are, if teams are starting, if they're a sort of movement toward, at least they're not getting crushed with him off the floor.

they're moving in a successful way. The offense has been trailing without him. I think they're like bottom 10 offense over the nine games that he's been out. But they've also been like a top 10 defense with him out. And Dinwiddie has stepped into that usage role kind of pretty comfortably. And so now there's the question of when Irving is back, do they start together? Do you juggle the rotation differently? Do you bump Dinwiddie back to sort of a sixth man role?

When Levert is back healthy, you know, how does that juggle the rotation? So there's definitely a lot of questions to answer. or because of it. I think it comes back to a lot of it. Like, you know, not to use one sort of throwaway quote as like the keystone into all this, but I was at a Nets practice before they went to China earlier this summer. And Kenny Acosid was talking about like the difference between bringing in like a different magnitude of star in Kyrie Irving than DeAngela Russell or some of the other guys they've had.

And he said basically like it's interesting to see how guys respond to it. And the thing you really want to see is do guys just sort of recede? And when you have a guy like Kyrie that's just such a magnetic offensive force, like at some point, people are. just watching him, right? And like, you have to get used to what it's like to play with that guy and to make yourself a threat and be part of the system as opposed to just letting him be the system, even if it's a really effective system. So all of those questions are still need to be answered. And the injuries and the sort of absences of guys are not going to help with that.

But I think the more that they do well without him and the more that they've struggled in terms with him on the floor, the more that's going to be a conversation. Yeah, there's definitely questions here to answer. And I think like, Haley, at the beginning of the season, You saw Kenny Atkinson sort of trying to work through it in real time because this team, I think is pretty clearly their three best players are Kyrie, Spencer, Dinwiddie, and Karris Levert. And there were times when, as Dan mentioned, they were sort of staggering their play. Or then, and I watched at the beginning of the season probably an unhealthy amount of Nets basketball, but there were, then there were moments when they were closing with all three of those guys on the floor at the same time. They're trying to get a sense of like, well, what's that look like? And is that a good thing or a bad thing.

How much of this, I guess my question is, falls to Kenny Atkinson. to really figure out because I think, you know, and understandably so as people who consume the NBA, we immediately look to the number one star and that's Kyrie Irving, right? And we put like maybe a disproportionate amount of the onus on him. But I think figuring out this puzzle is very much a Kenny Atkinson thing, no? As long as Kyrie is willing to share and the other two are willing to not get upset about losing a bit of touches and possessions. And yeah, absolutely, it's all in him. And I think that he has to also manage as well as lineups the dynamics. Because Kyrie has gone through so much the last couple years in terms of mentality switches.

I mean, first of all, he went to Boston after being under Dan Gilbert for forever and then wanted to show that he could stay in a good and healthy environment like that. And then he moves to the nets, a team that he actually committed to. And there's all this pressure on him to be the leader that everyone likes because, you know, he had all that bad PR there. And then there's also players, you know, Karris Leverton, Spencer, did when he have more than proven that they are worthwhile, like, household names. And they probably want their time. They want to be put in the right positions. So I think actually way more of this falls on Kenny Atkinson.

And when everyone returns to be healthy, he's the one that we should be putting the most pressure on. Dan, I like as much as anybody probably because of his last stop and where he played in Boston, to make fun of Kyrie Irving. it's a good it's a good time however i think like we sometimes forget like when we when we dump on kairie and say that he doesn't play well with others we sometimes forget how good he was with the cabs when by the way he was playing with the biggest player the best player on the planet i mean like to be able to coexist with lebron and thrive and win a championship i think should like we should remember that when we're uh quick to to strike him down and say that you know he's a ball hog or

he's a team killer. I mean, he played with, again, LeBron James. So as he returns and then when KD comes back, like long term with the Nets, what do you see this thing be? Yeah, I think the everything that happens this season has like a seven foot shroud cast over it, right? Like a big shadow, which is like there's an empty space in that lineup that you're going to eventually fill with one of the two, three, four best players in the world. Hopefully, if he is, you know, something resembling what he looked like before his injury and Kevin Durant. So the question to me is, I think what you expect from them is this season is kind of a bridge year no matter what.

And everybody knew that, right? But the hope was you'd sort of institute a program and a scheme and a system that then when you plug Kevin Durant into the culture, into the existing thing, it makes everything sort of look championship caliber. The fear would be if things get like dicey and uncomfortable and, you know, rumbly and grumbly throughout the year. And then by the time Katie comes back, everybody's nose is at a joint, that's a bad scene. And that's not what you're looking for.

But Kyrie has shown he can play well with others, as you said, and expecting him to maybe to carry everything on his own. He's never shown he can do that. And that's really the issue. So the idea that they're a package deal. They come together. We just don't know what the full package looks like, which gets me to a nice sort of button on this, which was Spencer Dinwiddie after last night's game, courtesy of ESPN's Malika

Andrews. We have no idea what our ceiling is because we are not even close to healthy. We have no idea how good we could be. It's encouraging to know that our floor is continuing to rise. The floor might be the ceiling, might be the roof in Brooklyn. And we really kind of have to wait until everybody's back in the lineup to find out. Expertly done, Dan Devine, tying a bow on it. That was the main event.

That guy's a professional broadcaster. What can I say? All right, let's go to everybody's favorite segment to wrap up the show. It's time for good call, bad call. What a bold call here. All right, for good call, bad call, we go immediately to one Jim Boylan, who seems to be a regular on this particular segment after yet another Bulls loss that dropped them to 6 and 14. He said, we have to keep playing the way we're playing. The wins will come, which is hilarious.

So a reporter said, well, what makes you think the wins will come? And Boylan responded, if you build it, they will come. You ever seen that movie? To which I said, what the fuck is he talking about? Halee O'Shaughnessy. Here's my question. Forget about that particular, because I have no idea.

That was a complete non-sequitur. But then I started thinking, like, maybe he should just answer all questions in completely random movie quotes. Good call, bad call on that idea. I'm just a girl standing in front of a boilin, asking him to keep it up. May the force be with you, Jim. Good call. Dan Devine.

Good call, but Haley O'Shaughnessy with the best call of the year. year. Thank you. Thank goodness, Shail. Best calls. Steve, noted Bulls fan, resident Bulls fan. Extremely good call. Some men just want to watch the world burn. Extremely, extremely good call. sweep it up. T.J. McConnell returned to Philadelphia. Not surprisingly, unlike Kyrie Irving in Boston, Philly knows how to welcome somebody back. Cheered him as a returning hero. He was greeted, though, pretty interestingly, by both his former teammate Joellen Bede and his

former coach Brett Brown. Joel Embed, after the game, recreated the post game after T.J. had won on a game winning shot a couple of years ago. Joel Embed choked him with a love choke. Because it's a lot, you know, that's what you do in Philadelphia. Everybody gives a love choke to say hello.

Did that again after the game. And then during the game, Brett Brown gave him like a belly rub, which I thought was pretty great. So a good call or bad call on the unique way that the Sixers welcomed T.J. back to the fold. Look, man, I'm not telling people what to do as long as the belly rubbing and the choking is consensual. Welcome back to Philly, TJ.

That's a good call. Haley O'Shaughnessy really shines in this segment. Dan Devine. I would agree. Like, I'm not here to yuck your yum, man. As long as you guys are both on board with it, that's cool by me. I'd be interested in learning a lot more about how the choking came to be a big part of Joel and TJ's relationship. But if they want to continue that, that's on them.

And belly rubs, listen, TJ's a good boy. All good boys deserve belly rubs. That's what I thought too. Like, when I saw that, I'm like, wow, he's literally giving him a belly rub. Like, scratching behind his ear might be next. Steve, how do you feel about this? Good call to the sentiment. Bad call to the term love choking?

Love choke is not good? Maybe not some hostile work environment in PR there. You're from Chicago. Everybody in Philadelphia knows about the love choke. It's a good call. Last one here presented by our very own Haley O'Shaughnessy. Hey, Haley, you take. take it away and then also you're the first to vote on this.

Okay, gang. Good call or bad call? Brad Stevens was very unhappy on the bench with the result of his challenge and he said, quote, I'm done with these fucking challenges. This is unbelievable. I'm going to go first since I'm a lady here. I have never cussed, not even in the last 10 seconds to read that quote. So this is a really bad call for me.

Dan Devine, otherwise wholesome Brad Stevens cursing and saying he's done with these fucking challenges. I mean, you really hate to see it. It's unfortunate that Brad Stevens feels like he's got to resort to this sort of pottymouth behavior. You really wonder if the culture in Boston can sustain and survive this kind of ridiculous behavior from a head coach. Yeah, puritanical Boston.

They never curse up there. Steve, what say you? It's absolutely no city for such behavior like that. So extremely bad call. Yeah, extremely bad call. I mean, the Celtics off to a really hot start, 14 and 5. this could ruin their season. Could put Brad Stevens on the hot seat.

It's a BC. Brad, I don't know what you're doing there, buddy. That was good call, bad call. That was our show. I want to thank New Isaac, Steve Allman, for producing Dan Devine and Haley O'Shaughnessy. And thank all of you for listening. Please rate and review us. Read all of our content on the rigger.com. Listen to the Ringer NBA show on the Ringer podcast network all week long.

Heat Check will be back next week. Thanks for listening, gang. Bye.