The Ringer NBA Show - The Celtics Blow Out the Heat ... Again. Plus, the Warriors Are Overpowering the Mavericks. | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 24, 2022

Logan and Raja discuss the Celtics’ rout of the Heat in Game 4 of the Eastern Conference finals to tie up the series, which has seen Miami and Boston swap blowout wins (0:45). Then, they talk about how the Warriors have managed to go up 3-0 on the Mavericks, who took out the top-seeded Suns (21:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hi, I'm Derek Thompson. Does the news feel overwhelming to you these days? There's a pandemic. Then there's inflation. And also this crypto thing, it's way too much to keep track of. That's why my podcast, Plain English, breaks down the news twice a week. Short, sweet, and surprising. It's everything you need to know with key insights you won't forget.

Listen to Plain English free on Spotify. It's popping. Logan Murdoch here, Rajah Bill there. Rajah, what a day doing, buddy? I ain't seen you in a little. week, Doug. You're all right, man. My fucking back is hurting right now. Is it because, is it because, is it because of reason why?

Can I paint the picture really quickly? Yeah, go ahead. Can I just, can I just tell the out? So, um, so before we get to the shits, Raj, before we even, okay, so me and Sasha in the pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre, pre pod meeting, because let me just go all the way, all the way, all the way, all the way back. We're just going to go all the way back. Let's do this.

So the Heat Celtics game for was just a wash. So Sasha puts it in the chat like, hey, guys, you want to record. We don't even know the final score of this game because we're recording right now. But Sasha goes, hey, guys, you guys, you guys want to record after the third quarter? I'm like, bet because, you know, I'm on the West Coast, right? And I'm just like, okay, let's get this over. It's nine at night. Or it's seven.

It's eight at night right now. But it was like seven o'clock. And let's get this going. And I know Raja is always cranky. at night, so let's get him in early, right? So we get on the pod, so like we get on the Zoom, you know, Sasha opens up the thing.

So it's just being Sasha for like 20, 30 minutes on the stream, right? We're just talking, we're just catching up, you know, just talking. And we're like, where the hell is Raja, right? And just we say that, Raja sends in a

three-minute video of him shooting from NBA range, which any place, what I would assume, just a house. I don't know whose house it is. I was just going to say, I was going to keep a conspicuous. Okay, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, a half-court poppin, and he has a basket in his back, in the back of the house. And this guy has this, he's just really obnoxious, retired basketball player at this point right now, because he has a thing, my little homie, my, like, my favorite of Roger's kids, my little homie, Ty Bell, my favorite of the, of the, of the, of the, of the, of the

homies, right? So, Ty Bell, as Roger is shooting jumpers in this video, Ty Bell is just waiting for his chance to get on the court. But Pops is like, nah-uh. I'm cooking right now. From one spot, he's shooting from the wing, shooting like, he's shooting like Steph Curry. He's shooting like, you know, like Clay Thompson. He's shooting like Clay Thompson. Still just trying to get the form back. He is like 10 in a row. And at this point, my little homie is just bored. He's like, dog, dad, really? Do you want to, you're going to keep doing this? And this video is three. minutes long. And he sends this video in, right? And not only does he send the video in without any context or comments or anything, he waits the full three minutes just to make sure we watch

the damn thing before he gets in on the Zoom. Raj, why are you being a washed dad right now? Explain yourself, bro. What the hell is going on? I will. See, you've got you've got me all mistaken. You've got me twisted. Let me explain to you what happened. We came home from made hoops in Dallas yesterday with Ty. Ty was out there playing with the team. We got home at like 10 p.m. You know, Ty felt like he could have played better in the last game. So, you know, unbeknownst to me, it's my regular Monday.

You know, I'm getting kids from school. I run over to Dias football practice real quick. Ty just got home from school. He's got to be whooped because we didn't get until 10. He played ball all weekend. And I get in the house, you know, get me a cold one, about to sit on the couch for a minute in between shifts. And I hear the ball bouncing.

And I'm like, what's going? What is going on? So I go peek out back and tie is back there on his grind, music blaring. And I go out, I check the, I check the gun, right, the shooting machine. And he's 500 deep. Like it keeps track how many times it spit the ball. You're so proud right now, huh? He's 500 deep.

No, but really it was inspiration and it comes from weird spots, right? Because I'm looking at him like, bro, this is pretty fucking cool, man. Like, this little dude as tired as he is out here 500 deep. Mind you, we got a lift today too, right? So he's got a lift. And also you've been saying that you're trying to get the summer by. and you've been out here trying to get back in shape. Correct.

Slapped a soda out your hand. Anybody you see Roger right now, you slap the shoulder at his fucking hand if you see him. Immediately on, like on site. So I go grab the Kyriez, right? Finish the Corona light. Throw on some vibes.

And I start getting some jacks up, man. Like, it was good times in the backyard today. My back's not really happy about it right now. You know what's funny, though, man? Like, I imagine there are a lot of old dudes. was like I got asked to play in the big three for a few years, like when it first started and I was still maybe young enough to do it. I get in these moments like if I really forget about where I am

or how old I am where shit starts feeling good to me, man, I'm out there stroking it, the music is playing and you lose yourself in just being a basketball player again. And then you go to make a move or grab a ball that's just a little out of reach and your back just reminds you to you We ain't supposed to be out here doing that anymore. And so that happened a few times. I have a similar story, Roger, from this weekend. It didn't happen today, but I have a similar story. So, you know, I just, I went out on a Sunday, went out to see the family in Antioch, right?

Anybody knows in the Bay who was about a 45-minute drive out from the East Bay. And, you know, I went out there and there was a kickball game, Popping, you know, the family kickball game. Right. And so, you know, I'm thinking. like, yo, man, I'm backing my... I used to play football in high school, bro. Like, I hold on that to that with everything I got, because, you know, I think I'm fakeweight athletic, right?

I think I'm going to... I'm doing that, right? So, going there, the fam has me, like, because I'm the young one out here, and I'm like, you know, kind of fake weight athletic. They immediately make me captain, right? And so I'm picking my team out. Turns out the hitters that I had,

we'll get to that in a second when we go on and I'm kicking first I kicked it is with all my mic, Rajah. First of all, I got a kick out. I got to pop out. And then a can of corn. The whole right side of my back,

Roger. And then I try, and then when we went back on defense, my whole, like I tried to be shortstop, tried to be athletic person, right? I reached for one of them things to get an out, bro,

the same part of my back. It's killing me. now, dog. And I'm like, you know, not as old as you, but I, you know. It doesn't get any better, man. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it just doesn't get any better, man. It doesn't. I was in the street, I was in the street trying to guard my son last week. I still got a spasm in my back from that. Can you beat him yet? Well, I could beat him because I just bully him in the post. Like, but if, I was trying to guard him like in the street, you know, zigzagging, like trying to give him a good look. And he hit me with some shit.

I don't even know what it was, but it clipped my feet together, so I started falling. And I caught myself, but with my back muscles, so they all spasmed up. And I'm still, I'm still struggling with that. You're about two years now from two years away from, like, being all the way washed and him just embarrassing you, bro, because he's going to start lifting, you say he's lifting weights. All you got right now is like old man's strength and those, those, the fouls that the ref can't see. That's all you got for different stuff right now. D, D, my 15-year-old is, like, on the rim and shit.

like he's trying to dunk in the eighth grade. So like I don't even, I'm not even going to any street. He's football strong because he's in the weight room every day. So I don't even mess around with him. I don't even mess around with him. All right, man. We were bound to. Let's let's get to the shits.

Let's talk about the Miami Heat Boston series right now. I have no clue. It's not a lot of shits to get to, Logan. It's just been shitty. It has been a shitty basketball. I'm sure, but we have a, I want to go that we have a job to do vibe, right? We have to talk about this series. I just, no, but like, I want to go back to what we're talking about in the pre-pod with this, the quality of this series, right?

Sasha Mac makes the case that there was two good games in this series, which is game one and game three. She says game one was good, but I think that's because, you know, she's just a Lakers fan and just doesn't want Boston to be, to be good in any way, shape, which I get, right, in Miami one game one. I'd make the argument there's only been one. There's only been one good game. That's game three. That's when the heat held Jason Tatum in check, and then Bosset could still almost win, and there was the Jason Tatum-Willis Reed moment,

and then Victor Oladipo became an all-defense player. It just stripped everybody. And then since then, I just, I don't know what the series, man, the quality of this series, I don't know, Raja. Yeah, so it hasn't been a good series to watch, but I would make the argument that there's been high-quality, like there's been quality.

The games just haven't been very entertaining, right? Because we were getting spoiled. This playoffs has had some really interesting storyline, some really cool series to watch, some really great games within each series to watch. And this one, the games just haven't been edge of your seat type of TV for lack a better way to put it, right? They're usually a blowout in one way or the other,

save for game three. This is like, it is, you know, I thought this was going to be a heavyweight fight of a series. And to some degree it is, it's just not what I expect it is. But it is even in terms of like one of them, it's just, there's not a lot of like jabbing and and and and boxing skill going on to use an analogy. It's not like like ta-tat-tat-tat combos.

This is like, yo, I hit you with the haymaker. You went down for the eight count. Now you got up and you hit me with the haymaker and I'm down for the eight-count. And that's just what they're doing, right? Like they're just beating the hell out of each other from game to game. So it's just a weird series like that. And also just injuries to key guys, right? You know, Tyler Hurrell's day-to-day.

Marcus Smart ankle sprain. Don't necessarily know when he's coming back either. Jimmy Butler, knee injury, he played tonight, but that's something that's going to linger. I think this series is one of those series that it's like, whoever wins this series, the finals are going to be really good. You know, that's going to happen. There are storylines of, you know, the Jason Tatum coming of age storyline.

There's, you know, how the Boston as a whole is going to come of age in this postseason. And you've got Miami, the rough and tumble, Pat Riley-esque team that just fights. But, you know, it's a two-two series, and I just don't feel fulfilled or as you. I mean, I think that's fine. I think that's fair. I don't either. I would say, you know, if I was trying to. to grade the series or trying to figure out who's been better in the series, I think I would lean slightly towards Boston.

And I don't mean to throw any shade at what Miami's doing. But game one was going to be a tough game for Boston to play in. Like that was just going to be a tough game for the series that was the one before that. There were a lot of reasons that that was going to be a tough game. And Miami laid the wood to them like they were supposed to do, good for them. but I kind of like penciled that one in. So then I'm looking at games two, three, and four. And, you know, Boston, even in game three,

that's 19 turn. Anytime you have 19 turnovers in an NBA game and you're relatively evenly matched as teams go, it's hard to overcome 19 turnovers. And I mean, the amount of things that Boston did well in that game, like the free throw discrepancy was crazy. People were going off.

Like there was a lot of, of things that went well. I mean, you didn't get a great game from Jason Tatum, but you got a great one from Jalen Brown. 19 turnovers are going to be hard to overcome, you know? So I think on the whole, if I had to grade it and say who had the higher grade right now, it'd probably be Boston, but I still don't know who wins the series. I don't know who wins the series. I think it comes down to because it's funny because my, you say that you tell towards the, you know, the Celtics, I've seen some things that Miami has done to be like, oh man, they can really, really take over this series.

I think that when you looked at down the stretch of game three and how they just their defense just swarmed on Tatum, right? And just out of nowhere, you had length in the wings, you had Victorola Depot snatching up

snatching steals. And this is all while Jimmy Butler is on the bench. It just hurt, you know, with that knee injury. It seems like a team that's resilient. But I think it also comes down to how healthy the star players are. When you see if Jason Tatum can continue to stay healthy,

and Jalen Brown can continue to stay healthy, and just this seems like a series where the healthier team will win at the end of the day. I mean, I know that's by and large for all series, but I think particularly in this series, if you get out healthy, you're probably going to win it. Yeah, absolutely. And Tyler, Tyler Hero was a huge scratch for them tonight. Just not having you saw how hard that we,

was for Miami to manufacture points in that first quarter. It was rough. I mean, Victor LaDipo was your steadiest offensive player in the first quarter. No shade of Victor LaDipo. But like that's, you know, you need Tyler here. That's six man of the year. Those are instant buckets usually. I would say what was interested in, they kept saying it on the broadcast to look out for, and I'm really going to be intrigued to see what Eric's bolster does. In a game like that, you take nothing good away from that if you're Miami, except, except Duncan Robinson started making shots. And if you are, and it's not my point because I heard it, Van Gundy and Mark Jackson said at first, but if you were the Celtics, I don't know. Now, he can't guard me and I just told you how bad my back

was. So that's always going to be an issue. But in a spot where you're not healthy and you need point production and he wasn't playing well, he gets hot in that series. That could be interesting. But all right, so you're minus Tyler Hero and a lot of it does hang on the health of Jim Butler because he's just Bam had a phenomenal game three. Phenomenal. Nope. No, phenomenal. Bam has been active.

Bam has been active, dog. Phenomenal. But Jimmy Butler is the, the, what is it? The straw that stirs the drink? Is that the term? Yes. For the heat? Yes.

And man, if he can get some real rest and get healthy, that's one thing. If he can, and he's marginalized in a way that it stops him from doing things that we said the heat needed him to be able to do in the playoffs, then we're talking about another animal. Yeah. When you go into a postseason, I start to look at the, and I'm talking about Jimmy Butler here, I see the kinds of injuries that happen. If there's a, if you're a star player and there is a, there is an injury that keeps you from playing a postseason game. And if you were a star player like Jimmy Butler, who is one of the toughest guys in the league, and he misses a, a whole postseason game, I'm really concerned about his, not his availability going forward, because I'm sure he's going to

try to play the rest of the series. But I am concerned with the fact that he, of all people, missed a playoff game and will have to go through the rest of the series. I don't trust that. Yeah, how effective can he be is what you're asking, right? Like, it's one thing to be, what scared me about the heat was not having that guy who Jimmy Butler turns into in the playoffs. And I didn't know he was going to do it again, but clearly that's what Jimmy Butler does, right? Like, Jimmy Butler's like, yo, I'm, I'm playoff Jimmy. Let's do this. But if he's marginalized to a degree that he can't be playoff Jimmy, then it puts them back in that precarious situation.

Because they can't go to Lowry. They can't go to a lot of these guys. It's not in his tank anymore. And greatest Tyler Hero is, NBAM out of bio on their trajectory as NBA stars, they're still early in that. And so with that means inconsistencies, right? And so, you know, you're just rolling the dice

in a way that you wouldn't want to if you were the heat. How do you feel about these injuries when we talk about Marcus Smart, right? Is there anything that we have to look forward going into that series on their end in terms of injuries? They had Robert Williams, who's been injured, you know, injured his knee throughout the back stretch of the season. He's been playing well. Horford's been playing well. Yeah. But they're going to miss Marcus Smart.

They're going to miss Marcus Smart. Yeah. Marcus Smart is he's their third shot creator. and people don't really give him credit for that because his defense overshadows it, but he really is good offensively now. I mean, he's, I don't know what the numbers say, but when you watch the playoffs,

he is a creator of opportunities for himself and others in there. And you can put him on, he's a defensive player at a damn year. Yes, that's going to hurt, man. For a top five defensive team in the league missing their best defender on the ball, he can put out all kind of fires,

teller heroes cooking, go get that. Jimmy Butler, you grab that for a while, even though. And he's such an energy boost. He's such an energy boost on top of being a great defender, especially at home. When they go see, when Margaret Smart is at home, he can take over a game just by getting the crowd involved. Absolutely.

They'll need him in Miami. For them to get a win in Miami, they need Mark Smart. All right, with that being said, man, we got to, what's your prediction for game five, sir? God, man, this thing is held to form. Heat. Yeah, we take the heat. I'll take the heat.

I mean, look, this thing has swung. The pendulum swung every time. And while I tell you, I think Boston's been overall probably a slightly better. The heat are tough at home, man. There's a lot of pride there, bro. You wouldn't know it better than I, but I'm going with Boston. Sasha's going to cut off the stream right now, but I'm going to go with Boston. And that might be the last thing you hear from me.

Let's take a quick break. Hopefully I'm back. We're going to talk about the Western Conference. No sweat, same game parlay each week. $20 in free bets if you don't win. Playoffs are heating up and you can make every game feel like game seven on Fanduil's Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA. Throughout the playoffs, all customers can place a no-swet same game parlay each week.

You'll get up to $20 in free bets if you don't win. Fandle has so many ways to play. And best of all, when you do win, you'll get paid faster than a fast break. Okay, I think the Warriors are going to just fumble the bag on Tuesday night and let the Mavericks have this one so they can win at home on Thursday. and then have a full week off before the finals. So I'm going to go ahead and take the Mavericks money line. Steph hasn't scored below 30 points this game one,

so I'm going to take the under on Steph Corey points, and Luca has been going crazy, so I'm going to take the over on Luca dodge its points. Last thing, I'll take a risk and take the Mavericks to win by a margin of 11 points or more. I think this is going to be a blowout. New to FanDuel? Just download the FanDuel Sportsbook app

and sign up with promo code Ringer MBA. Once again, that's promo code Ringer MBA. And if you already have an account, you're all set to bet. No sweat. Either way, you'll get up to $20 in free bets if your same game parlay during the playoffs doesn't win.

FanDuel Sportsbook, an official partner in the NBA. A 21 or older in select states, refund issued as non-withdrawable free bets that expire seven days after receipt. Max free bet $20 per week. Restrictions apply. See full terms at sportsbook.

Fanduel.com. Gambling problems, call 1-800 gambler or visit fanduel.com backslash RG for Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Virginia. 1-800 next step or text next step to 533442, Arizona, 1-888-789-7777, or visit ccpg.org backslash chat for Connecticut. 1-8009 with it, Indiana.

18777-770. Stop, Louisiana. 18778. Hope N.R. or text Hope N.Y to 467. 369, New York. Tennessee redline, 1,800-889-9-9-7-89, Tennessee, 1-800-2-2-4-7-0-0-Wyoming, or visit www.wb,000-gambler.net, West Virginia.

Ra, rah, we are back. I'm talking about Warriors' Mabbs right now. Are the Warriors back, Roger Bell? Yes, warriors are backed. Do you see the Warriors' propaganda back? You see what it is? Do you see how, do you see when you watch? Do you see how it goes?

Well, they look good, man. They look good. What do you want me to say? They look good. Let me say this. Dallas, forgive me for what I'm about to say. Would have been a much better series. It would have been a much better and more entertaining series had the sons got to the Warriors, right?

We can agree to that, right? We can agree to that. That was last on the list. But no, actually, let's just start you right now. Let's get your son slander out of the way. And then we'll talk about the series. What does it say about the sons that when you look at this series, And you think back to the Sons and what they were supposed to do and where they were supposed to be.

And they're at home at this point. We're watching the Dallas Mavericks. What does that say about the Suns based on what the Maver's are doing? It's an epic bag of fumbling. That's what it was. You robbed. You robbed Raja of two weeks of basketball. Real talk like that.

You did. Not just me, NBA, NBA fan. Like the Mavs are a great story. I'm not throwing shade. They should, you should have handled that. You see what Golden State is able to do. do, Luca's going to get his, but you see what Golden State's been able to do to the others, right?

And those were always the question for the MAVs. It wasn't ever Luca. It was the others. And Phoenix, you let the others be Luca themselves in a lot of instances. Like, that shit is unfathomable. They weren't, the MAZMAS weren't, aren't supposed to be here, man. Great story. It's the fact that they're here is a testament to all the great that they've done with the trades

and stuff. And when you see, this is just me talking about the Maverick. We'll get to your son Slander in a second. But when I was able to go to the first two games in the Bay, and when you see the Mavericks, you see like a unit. They're a unit. You see Dirk traveling with the team, the greatest player in franchise history,

reading the box score and just utter shame after Game 2 victory. Just still in it. Proud organization. But they shouldn't be here. I'm sorry. I don't know what else to say. They're great, but let's get back to,

let's get to the series. It's a, I don't even want to talk about the sun. It's a disappointment, the fact that this is even happening. But the Mavericks, you want to talk about fumbling the bag, fumbled an epic bag in game two.

There's no way, when you have Luca cooking like that and you're up 19 points, you can't, and you can't give the warriors life. You can't do it. Those are one of those games, especially when you're an underdog in the series. And they've been an underdog.

in the postseason. When you see that happening, you've got to go for the kill. You just have to. You have to beat the Warriors and put them out of their misery. They were up by 20 in the second in the first half.

Let the Warriors get one of those little mini runs to end the quarter to end the half. And then just lost it. You can't do that. Let me just go PSA right now. Can I do PSA?

Can I side ball? Go ahead. Put a pin in it. And let me go off on a rant. Can I rant? Oh, oh. Razor rant. Razor rant.

Razor rant. I was in made hoops to all you knucklehead ass AAU coaches out there, right? All you knucklehead ass, I played high school basketball, AAU fucking coaches, all right? Teaching these kids to just run out there, space the floor, and everybody take turns, isoing. No ball movement, no anything. Nobody knows how to play unless they got the ball in their hands. Stop teaching that shit. That is for pros.

Those cats have already learned the basics. they all already know how to play. Now, like, stop. If you want to teach- What did you say, Roger? Bro, Ty played on it. I'm not going to get started. Brian, I'm going to throw no shade it.

I'm not going to do that. But listen, what you need to be watching is Golden State. See, they watch Luca and Boston, and it's just picking roll. And it's just pick and roll, right? You're going to go pick and roll. We're going to get a mismatch somewhere.

Now we're going to space the floor and we're just going to cook. First of all, that shit is terrible to watch. Nobody likes watching that shit. Secondly, those kids aren't good enough or well enough rounded as players to really just only learn how to do that. Golden State is the example if you want to teach kids to play a relatively new style with an open floor, but still learning concepts of how to get open, move without the ball, have people end ball movement and let that create easy shots. It's too hard to ask these little jits to score on fucking like on off the bounce for. 90% of the game. It's stupid. And sorry, I'm sorry. I just love, I love watching Golden State play.

And it's why the Sons were able to be stopped to some degree by Dallas because they kind of devolved into ISO type of shit. They weren't really moving with pace. Dallas can't keep up with Golden State. They just keep moving. They just keep moving. I referenced game two. And it's going to get right back to your point. Even when the Mazz were up, the warriors just seemed inevitable, right? They ran the same plays. You know it's coming.

They're going to run a back pick. But it's funny because they're just so selfless. You got Steph Curry doing backscreens for other guys like Nash used to do it. You know, just very selfless team. You got the back cut. Everybody's playing for each other to give and go. And I'm going to, and this is no shade of Dallas because Dallas is a very much a team. And you saw that when they, when they beat Phoenix.

But to your overall point, watching just, and that takes time, right? It takes, you know, it takes players. It takes you, it takes time to be able to learn the offense. It takes longevity. You need a whole bunch of stuff to build an offense like that. But when you see Golden State in their bag, there's nothing quite like it. It's, it's like how poetic the bull. looked in the triangle offense when it was just humming, right?

Or when you saw the Lakers do it, or when you saw, I hate to say it, Roger, because I wasn't a fan of you guys. You need to say it. Yeah, putting some respect on the name. When you watch the Phoenix Suns play, when you see Steve Nash running a fast break, faking the behind the back one way,

then say, oops, no, here you go, Raja, quick layup, you know? I didn't dunk that. When you got the quick dunk. No, no, no, what he faked it? When, oh, man, when Steve Nash faked behind the back to Raja and threw it to Leandro Barbosa, who then dunked the ball. Boy, cut it out.

But I agree with you. I know I agree with you, man. I definitely agree with you. And what you're talking about is people who have mastered, like, the style of play that they're playing in. And coaches who have taught it and drilled it and preached it. You need the infrastructure to be able to do that. You have to have infrastructure to be able to do that, man.

And, you know, look, when good offense, this is why I try to tell my sons all the time, because they come up in this age. Luca Dajic, Kyrie Irvin, Kevin Durant, Jason Tatum, those are some of the best players on the planet. Got out of James Harden. James Harder. But yes. And so can they get a guy in their sights and one-on-one score on them? Yeah. But you'll even see those guys when good defensive teams have solid game.

plans and they really start to shrink the floor on them and commit multiple bodies. Even they will struggle because it's too hard. There's nothing helping them create a shot. It's just their God-given ability, right? And so Golden State, what you do, what good offense is supposed to do, it's supposed to put a defender in a compromising situation where he's got to make a decision. Do I stay here or do I go there? And then depending on what he does, you make the read off of that.

And the player that's in the action with him will do whatever the opposite action is. If he tight curls, I'm going to pop, right? If he comes off, I'm going to slip. And so you put that defender in those decision-making spots, compromising positions over and over, and eventually they're going to screw it up. And then you've created an easy shot with your movement and with your offense. And that's what Golden State does to you over and over again. You could get it right three times on one possession.

But it's not going to stop. So you got to get it right three more times or they're going to get a wide. open look. And that the average, I mean, the probability that that happens, you know, isn't really high. Yeah. And it's funny. The Warriors, to your point about Luca and one-on-one players,

the Warriors just said, fucking, and put a box in one in game three. He just said, you know, just go beat us. Or don't. Or just do what you got to do. Do what you got to do. It's all good. Absolutely. Throw it to the shooters. Now, I like Golden State because, like I told you, like Phoenix should have zoned him too. Phoenix should have zoned him. Phoenix should have thrown multiple.

This is, so I, you know. And in zone until it was too late. In the zone until it was too late. You know, everybody, like, I know boxing one is corny, but I'm, listen, I throw a boxing one. I triangle into you. I do, like, if you have someone like a Luca or like- Talk your shit, you was a defender on the boxing one, huh? You was the defender. You was guarding that boy, huh?

It's the easiest assignment on the planet because you could literally just face-guard it. And you don't have to really worry about help or anything. But, you know, you got to employ different strategies. And as great as Luca is, as Kobe was, as those guys. gifted as scores are, you can't give them the same look all the time. So what Steve Kerr and them do, which is really cool is they just keep it moving, right? Yeah, you can see the box a little bit. Boom, we'll double you occasionally when you get in. Now you're looking at a high zone, like, and it just keeps the wheels spinning. You never really get comfortable.

Now, it's interesting, right, because this goes back to the conundrum with Luca, right, where he is so good. He is so good that he got the Mavericks of the Western Conference finals, you know? He carried that team to the Western Conference finals. But it goes back to the age old thing with him is, can a star play alongside him? Because the fact of the matter is he's going to need another perennial all-star next to him. If he's going to compete in a Western Conference, that's just what it is. We've seen that. There's a ceiling to what his greatness can be before this team, if that makes sense.

You get what I'm saying? For sure. Where he is, it was a similar. similar problem LeBron face, right? Kevin faced it this year too with his team. The great ones are

amazingly great, but they can only get you to a point. You need a well-rounded team. What does Luca need in this office season? The big thing is a big. Does he need? Is that what he need?

If he can get an all, like, a great big on his team, is that going to be enough or what does he need around him? I mean, a big, yeah, you always need a big,

but I, I think Luca needs another, Luca needs another six, seven wing creator. But, but Luca, Luca, you know, I think Luke,

when I watched Luca, like he gives Spencer Dinwiddie some breath to kind of do his thing. He gives, you know, Jalen a little room to kind of work. Like, it looks like he is amenable to that. There was a point where I wasn't sure.

And so maybe he doesn't have to be six, seven. Maybe he's a cold. Like, I think, I don't know that it's Jalen Brunson. Forgive me, think he should make a lot of bread. I think he secured the bag and all of that. But I don't know if that's the piece, if that makes sense to you, that Luca needs to get him over the top. But it's

got to be someone else that can create. Because what you can't do is just have Luca out there, having to dribble it for 17 seconds, 16 seconds, get to the rim, everything's collapsed on him. And now he's kicking it out. And it's just whether or not the others make or miss threes. Like, that's just going to be too much on his body, on, on, you know, on the people who probably, you know, aren't good enough to do that at a consistent enough rate to win them games. So, like, you need someone else that can help you carry. Yeah, yeah. And the lawyers are just putting different dudes on him, man. He gets switched on.

And also, it was funny because I think about what we were talking about last week. Because we were caught up in the moment. we're caught up in the rapture of the maps. I'll just say it. We were, because we were talking about, I was going seven. You know,

they got to worry about Luca. Wiggins is light in the ass. We'll get that in the second. We'll specifically in a second. Yeah. Hey, Sasha didn't say it was last week. We were just going in. We just went it completely the other way.

But now that you see it, like the warriors, they're saying, you know, you're going to try to pick and roll on, and try to get a switch on a step. We're not letting that happen. Steph is not going to guard Luca.

It's just not going to happen. Right. We're going to lock this screen up. We're not even going to ice it. We're just going to just, Steph, go through, get back to your man. That's all that's going to happen.

And we're going to play. And Wiggins has been really fucking good this series. Wiggins, it's been really good, man. Wiggins, I always thought that was going to be a great fit for Wiggins. And it's got nothing to do with what you're talking about, except I think it's, you know, indirectly related.

So I'll go there. Let's talk about it. You know, it's incredible to me how many times I see an athlete, not just a basketball player, not do what people think he or she should do in a certain situation and leave that situation and flourish. And I say it all the time. Not every organization is run well.

at the time that that player is there. I'm not saying that that organization, specifically, Minnesota, we're talking about isn't run well now and isn't heading in a right direction. But clearly, like, when those guys were young and they were there, there was a lot of dysfunction there. And so you're not getting the best out of people. You know what I mean? And so I just think it's so important that players, not just NBA players.

Like, I talk to my boys about this. If they ever should get a chance to play a college sport, if they're lucky enough and blessed enough to do that, there's more that goes into that than, hey man, I like Ohio State or, hey man, I really want to live in Southern California so I want to go to USC. There's so many factors that are going into picking a place

that's right for you, you know, and somewhere that you think you'll be able to flourish. And I'm happy for Andrew Wiggins, and he's been able to find a culture. And that's what he needed. He needed a culture, Logan. He needed people around him that held them accountable that worked in a way that was going to,

you know, provide a roadmap for him to kind of get into that next level as a pro and having playoff success. And it's cool to watch. It's interesting because I remember when the trade went down, the Warriors were so giddy about Andrew Wiggins, and they were so excited. And it was at a time where,

because you remember back then, it was inevitable that DeAngelo Russell was going to get traded. From the moment that the Warriors got Russell on the sign and trade, they knew that the Timberwolves were probably going to be. were the destination because they, you know, best above worlds, Russell gets the max and he gets to ultimately play with his teammate or play with Cat, which is what he always wanted to do.

Now, when they, when the Warriors got Andrew Wiggins, I remember thinking, you know, man, he's just miscast. He's not a, he's not a franchise player. It's okay. He's not a number one. That's fine. Yeah. Might not even be a number two, but if he's your number three, four best player, like, yo, that's Andrew Wiggins, dog.

Yeah, that is six. What did they list them at? Six eight. Six eight. Silly athletic can guard probably one through five. I mean. In this NBA five. In this NBA, yeah.

Went through five. I wouldn't have him down there a lot, but he could. It's gotten better at his shot. Like, I see the work he puts in. Every once in a while, get you 30 to 40 points in the game if you just need to. Come on, man. Come on, man. And then, like, they got, I mean, they're really set up in a nice spot, you know,

on Kaminga in a year or two. I mean, I don't know what Wiseman looks like. You talk about him all the time, but Jordan Poole, still young, still silly young, man. And, I mean, they're really set up to, you know who else look good, though? Can I make a shout out? Because we talk, who, you know, who's moving a lot better than I thought? Who? Clay Thompson.

Yes. I'm not talking about the consistencies or inconsistencies with the jumper and all of that. Like, he still shoots a lot of shots that, like, but I'm just talking about moving. Yeah. He's moving well. It's funny. I asked him after the, I think it was after game two.

I asked him like how, how much are you trying to get back? Because, you know, he was a great defender before the injury, like one of the league's best. He probably didn't go on all, all defensive teams, but he probably,

the numbers may not suggest it, but if you go up against Clay Thompson, bro, like bring your lunch bail. It's going to be, he's a hell of a post defender. He's a hell of an on-ball defender. He's really fucking good. And so pre-injury,

I asked him after the after game, It was like how much we all know about your offensive prowess and what you can be offensively. But how much are you trying to get back to that level you used to be defensively? And he was like, I'm trying. I'm trying hard. The way you do this is just to be. You know how Clay talks. He was like, the only way to do this is to be a two-way player.

You know, that's how all the greats are a two-way player. He takes that shit seriously. And a lot of players don't take pride in being a two-way player in this day and age. You know that, Roger. They don't. It's either one way or another. And it's rare did you get the two-way.

He's moving well defensively. He's playing really well defensively. Like, can he play Luca as a primary all-game? I don't think so. But, like, yo, he can play Luca in spurs. Played Luca fine a couple times in that middle of the key area, man. Luca was dancing and he was writing his shit. Yeah, yeah.

So I got to ask, what did you think when you saw Luca? Where were you when you saw the Wiggins dunk on Luca? What was going through your head on that one? Yeah, I got, I had just got off a plane. No, yeah, was I still in the airport? I don't know. I don't remember exactly where I was, but that shit was nasty. He cocked it back.

You forget, it goes back to when we were talking about the athleticism. You forget just like how athletic he is and was, like, they forgot about wig. Here's my beef with that. Yeah, you forgot, you completely forgot about him. And Luca. look again let me just preface this by saying he's phenomenal all right this is my beef with the NBA today what did you run your ass over there for what were you going to do so if you are not going to jump in the air and physically stop that man from dunking the ball don't get your ass in the

picture man just move and so the half-hearted jump and like let me just just get in the trading card with you. I didn't understand that. And the audacity to potentially think we can spell them, bro. Yeah, that, that's, talk about that. Let's talk about that.

Let's talk about that, Roger, because that's where the real problem is, bro. I'm not going to do it. This is when you're not going to do it. This is when you're not going to do it. You're not going to pay me to. This is turned into,

this shit's turned into the WWE, bro. This shit's turned into the wide world of wrestling. Like, like, it's, it's so, fake with some of this now. Not the games

themselves, but just the we didn't play, we sold fouls. We did. And you're supposed to, dude. Like, everybody was like, oh, you flop. Like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to just keep letting Carmelo Anthony, who's 260 pounds try to cave in my

sternum. No, at some point, I got to go down. Yeah, I got to go down. Like, what do you want me to do? So we sold bals to get offensive calls or to get some free throws. These dudes are like trying to convince the refs that they've been stabbed. It's like, what are you doing, man? How often have you read to the TV and went like full Avon barks?

I was like, that's not how the game was played. That's not how the game was played. That's been you, right? I don't do that, but I've, I've rewound a few times and called people into the room to look at the bullshit. I'm not above that. Okay. I'm not above that.

I'm not, we're not trying to get each other fined here. Like, what are you getting out of getting? me a flagrant. Like what the hell are you getting? A free throw of the ball back? There's been so many flagrants called, bro. There's been so many. Seriously, what are you getting by, what do Logan Murdoch's team get other than the ball back? You get one possession. Like, that's worth getting me a fake flagrant. Like, this is a brotherhood, bro. I'm with Steve Carter. There's some unwritten rules to that shit, bro. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's not get you fine. You brought up an interesting point. of how the Golden State is stacked

and how they have a light's little group. This is how you build, you know, this is how you kind of, this is how you extend runs. This is how you extend, you extend legacies. This is how you, you, you, you know,

do right by your best player. Like I juxtapose that, sorry, Roger, with like the sons and how, how you felt like you guys could have extended such and such runs and you guys got a got in your own way. Is that fair?

That is fair. fair? I think that's fair. More than fair. And we talked about this current iteration of the son's dog. DeAndre Aden his agent is on record talking about there are other teams that's going to pay my guy. How do you get to that point with your good

rookies, bro? That's just another thing. But you juxtapose that what's going on and go to state, man. That's how you build a team. That's how the Bulls did it, right? That's how they do. That's the model. You've got to continue to make moves and you've got to hit on things if you

want to extend your best players run. That's what the Spurs did, Raja. You know, we had Tim Duncan talking about it's what the Spurs. It's what the heat do. It's what the heat do. Yeah. He's a little different because they didn't have the run. I don't think the stretch because they lost a lot of those guys, but they just keep reloading and figuring out a way to redo it with different personnel. But certainly the heat are just never going to take a hell. They're just not, we're not going down without a fight. Right. Right. But no, I'm with you. The model, those are three of the most stable winningest franchises. Like, they just, they do it the right way.

And Golden State, I don't remember if it was at the beginning of this year or towards the end of last year when we were on here and I was questioning, not in a bad way, but just posing the question and the possibility that if they didn't get it right and these things didn't work out, could they be squandering like Steph's Twilight? And the answer to that is unequivocally no. Like, they were, this is perfect. are going to win a championship this year. Are you saying this right now?

Are you saying this right? They're going to win championship? Yeah. They're going to win a championship. It was funny because if you look back on the Warriors season, man, because we talked about this. We talked about this opening night. I didn't mean for this to be this podcast. We talked about this opening night. I was like, remember when they beat the Lakers?

Yeah. And the way that they did, it seems like eons ago. It was opening night. And it just felt like a statement. game to the rest of the league. Like, hey, yo, check this out. Because I remember being, I was at, it was, it was staple center then. There was just like a, just a vibe around this team.

Like, because the Lakers were sticking their chest out. They had AD. They had just gotten rusts. And they were just like, yeah. And then the war was like, okay, don't even trip. Don't even trip. And they set the tone. And then they beat the Clippers at next week.

That really set the tone for the rest of the season. Now, they have had their hiccups, you know, with injuries and reintegrating clay and things like that. But they've always just been. inevitable, you know? And the way that we always thought that Phoenix was supposed to be. The Warriors were just, just put in, just did it. Listen, when you're, I mean,

they do a lot of things. You got them wanting a title over? I got one in a title. I absolutely do. Against both teams. It doesn't matter. To me, to me, it doesn't matter. I mean, I certainly could be wrong, but it doesn't really matter because they have two things going for them that first of all, they are,

I talked about Clay being better defensive. Clearly, Draymond is always a defensive of the player of the year candidate. Andrew Wiggins. I would push back on that. I will push back on that. I'm just saying that it's being, Draymond is not always a defensive player of the year candidate, simply because he just doesn't do it night in, night out, in the regular season.

Okay. In the post season, he's that dude. He's got the ability to be one, right? Like his defensive chops are on. He's a top five defensive player. Cool. Andrew Wiggins, positionally, is a really, really good defense. defender, like really good defender.

We talked about his versatility and length and all of that. Steph Curry, much better defender than people give him credit for. They really defend. Like, that team really, really defends. And whenever you've got that kind of movement, it neutralizes to some degree the other team's defensive chops because you can't just load the ball. I'm talking about all these situations they're putting you in. You've got to be locked in on every damn action that they run.

You make a mistake and they hit you in the head for it. So, yeah, I take Golden State. I keep thinking, man, this team is deep. This team is deep. And if Wiseman gets like just a 10-and-10 guy next year, you know, if Cominga just takes the next step as a defender and just with age, because he's doing great at such a young age, if he just continues to do what he's doing, and Jordan Poole continues to, you know, evolve into what he is,

I mean, if they win a title this year, are they the favorites next? No, it's not. We're not even going to go there. We're not even going to go there. We're not even going to go there. Let's not even do that. It's not even do that. Oh, man.

Do I have to ask you your prediction for game four on that? Are they sweeping the Mavs? I don't know if they sweep the Mavs. I don't know that they sweep the Mazz. I don't know that they sweep the Mazz. Because I'm going to go Mabs game four because the Mabs are one of those teams where they're not going to go out without a fight, bro. If the Warriors sweep, they're going to earn that shit. That's where you're going.

If you're going there, then I'd say they sweep the maps. Okay. But you don't, like, it'd go either way, though, right? I think it could go either way. I don't think it's foregone. Like, look, if those dudes, if the others don't make shots, they're going to sweep the maps. I just saw, it's funny because the Mavs, it wasn't like the Mabs didn't play hard in game three. No.

It just seemed like the Warriors were just on a different level, just on a different playing field. They were running cardio and, and they were, they were, you know, when someone is just all the way in their bag where it seems like, they're jogging but they're still faster than you you know whether just this is on a different that's what it seemed like with the warriors now i could see them like you know mavericks are our very prideful group just blowing them out just for there just to you know just get another trip back to the west coast i could see that happening but the warriors can 100% sweep but i'm gonna pick the mavericks that's tough that hey listen game down 3-0 there's there's definitely pride attached to that right but there are a lot of

other things like, you know, everyone knows that no one has come back from 3-0. So there's part of you that knows that you're not winning the series. You know what I'm saying? And so the pride is what's going to take you out on the court and you're going to give it your best shot. But if that doesn't translate early, there's some point where everyone knows the inevitability of this. Can you dig what I'm saying? And then it starts working against you. The first quarter of these closeout games are like a really great indicator, right?

Because what happens is it's one of two things that are going to happen. It's the home team, the team that's like down 3-0, they are going to beat them down. They beat them down, right? The first half or the first quarter, they're up like 30 to 12 or something, right? And they just graduate, gradually put that lead high as possible. And then there's that other thing where... you know, maybe it's tied. And then that second quarter that the team, like if the Warriors play like they did,

I think this is how it was going to go. If they play like they did in game three, it's going to go, Warriors probably tied or up, you know, tied or maybe down two after the first quarter. And they just go on a run and then it's over at that point. We'll see. We're going to see. We'll see what happens. Sasha Mack with a good point.

Says the Warriors kind of known. And I love her terminology here. kind of known for catting off when they don't need to win. That's some base shit, Roger. You're going on the... I don't know, but I liked it. I liked saying it. Yeah.

Yeah. When you cat off, that means you ain't on your shit. Catting off, huh? When you catn off, that means you ain't on your shit. And the warriors have been known to cat off and not be on their shit in elimination days. Is it catn off or is it just cat off? Okay, so it originates, Roger, from saying, like, if I say like, hey, bro, you a cat. All right?

If I say that, that means that you're not, you cat, you're not on your shit right now. You're a cat. You're not working. You're not doing whatever it is, right? It could be like, you know, you're a cat, bro. You ain't on your shit. What's you doing, bro? And then if I see you like, I don't know,

if I see you not running a drill right. Right, so you're catting off, bro. Fair. You caten off. You ain't on your shit. Stop cat and. Stop being a cat. Stop being a cat.

But if you get called, this is the last thing I'm going real deep out and cut. If you get called a J-cat, that means you are all the way, like you were without just, There's no coming back from that. There's no hope. That's it?

You're at the whole thing. Yeah, yeah. You're hopeless. So the warriors have been known to be some cats. They'll be fine, but they do cat off on occasion. Can dig it. Can dig it. I can dig it.

It's not a big area terminology lesson. I appreciate that. We out here. Let's get to a row into the week, shall we? I'm going to start off. Playing it simply easy. I'm going to go with Andrew Wiggins, bro. Like, that was just, that was just ridiculous.

There's nothing more to say. Let's just go with that. Yeah. I don't have a great one. Maybe I give it to Bob Myers and company, man. Dang, is this a Warriors Love Fest? I don't like this. I mean, I don't know where else to go right now within the NBA circles.

And I don't, there's not a lot going on in the world. I don't follow hockey. Not really into the baseball season right now. Yeah. You got one for me? I'll take one. Yeah, you can do mine. I don't know.

I just had some news that came through and I kind of want to get your opinion. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, it's really quick. So Tim Connolly. Former GM of the Denver Nuggets has taken a position. I don't have the exact thing on it, but he's taking a position with the Minnesota Timberwell's going to run their basketball apps. I think that's really intriguing.

He just built, also really slick move by Tim Connolly. You know why? Yes, he does have Yokic. Yes, he has Yokic. But the people around Yokic are both highly paid and are injury prone. It's true. And he's going to the Minnesota Timberwolves with Ant Man, who we both love,

not front of the shell, but we are, we are admirer of his game. Building blocks. Carl Towns. Yeah. Carl Towns has it really, like, the Timberwolves are on the up and up, and to get a new, get a guy like Tim Connolly who was built the Nuggets into a respectable organization,

to get him at the right time. This just seems like a savvy move. from A. Rod and Company. What do you think? Real one. Real one. There you go. I mean, what? It was very, okay.

All right. Yeah, no, I do think it's a very good look for, for Minnesota. And I think, again, what I talked about, you know, when Andrew Williams was there years ago, I think culturally you're starting to see a real shift there. You're starting to see, you're starting to see some things really flip to a more healthy. you know, dynamics and culture being established. And this is another step in that. And it'll be interesting to see what he can build there

because he does have some good building blocks, some good pillars. Talking about Minnesota Timberwolves in May, man. What? Who's on the up and up, man. That has been another edition of Monday Real Ones. Real ones after dark, Raja off that dark. You know, he got a new lamp in the background.

He's really filling himself right now. He's shooting jumpers. After, after flights. I'm not going to walk for two days, bro. All right, we've got to get out of here so so Roger can put on the icy hot. Before we do,

before we get out of here, make sure you check out our whole slate on the ringer, NBA feed. That is group chat. That is weekends with Woz. That is the answer. Sirat Sohi and Chris Ryan. Make sure you also check out the mismatch feed.

Raja, we need to do something with them. You know, this is a PSA. We, the Streets said they want part two of the real mismatch they need it very soon. And I think we're going to have something really, really soon. So make sure you check that out. Bring it. Bring it.

Because I need to talk to Chris Vernon. It's been a lot. This is the first time we're talking to Chris Vernon since the Memphis Grizzlies. People need to see you, Verno. Hey, hey, hey, the streets need to see you. Okay. Make sure you also check out, love the mismatch, guys. Make sure you also check out the void for the void with Kevin O'Connor.

And, you know, we got to keep the propaganda going, man. Also, make sure you check out playing English with Derek Thompson. Really loved that. Had a really interesting conversation about crypto that I think you guys would like. That's also on the ring or feed. Make sure you check out. Let's keep the propaganda going. We ain't messing around.

Okay, let's check out. We ain't cat enough. We got to work. We got to work. Shout to that, buddy. Make sure you check out Black Girl's Songbook with Who, Roger Bell. That's town legend. Miss Daniel Smith.

Make sure you check out R2C2 with who. Roger Bell. The Crestside Clown. That would also be known, aka the Vallejo legend. C.C. C.C. Sabati. I'm sorry. I don't even. I'm sorry.

Don't butcher his name. C.C. Sabathia. C.C. Sabathia. Print of the show, C.C. C.C. Sabatia. All right, man. We'll see you guys next week. Halla.