The Ringer NBA Show - The Celtics' Potential Trade Deadline Moves | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

Justin, Tjarks, and Rob open with a discussion on Marvin Bagley's hand injury and what it means for this season and the future for the Kings (02:00). Later, they are joined by The Athletic’s Jared Weiss to discuss what potential trades can improve the Celtics roster ahead of the trade deadline (11:00) Hosts: Justin Verrier, Jonathan Tjarks, and Rob Mahoney Guest: Jared Weiss Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

They don't have guests. They have contestants. Ten Questions with Kyle Brandt is the perfect game show and talk show hybrid that you need. Check out 10 questions exclusively on Spotify. Hello and welcome to group chat. The Ringers Weekly NBA group discussion where there are no untouchables except for John, the producer. I am Justin Verrier joining me today. It is hoodie charks.

I am definitely touchable. I don't know. I don't know. Is that a good choice of words there? Let's just keep going. Rob Mahoney is also here. Hey, what's going on? He is a true woodsman today with his background and choice.

If you could smell just the forest as you're listening to this podcast, that's just Rob checking in from Never Neverland. Are those sequoias in the background, Rob? Yeah, you want to go true to location. I'm just trying to get back in touch with my natural roots. It's true. Jared Weiss of the Athletic will be joining us in just a little bit as we talk about the Celtics. the most interesting team at the trade deadline,

or that's what we're going to tell you for this podcast. But first, let's talk about Marvin Bagley, who, man, this dude cannot catch a break, or I guess he can catch a break in this instance. Boo. No,

no. Okay. He broke his left hand. Probably going to be out for a little while here. Not great for a guy who has already struggled to fit in with the Kings and also to stay on the floor. Charks, you wrote about this on the site today.

What do you think? What are the ripple effects? or I guess let's just talk about Bagley first. Like, how big of a setback is this for him? It's funny because that was my lead at first. But we were like, you know, that's just too... On the break? It's too cliche.

We can't go with that. Yeah. You're an artist. That just means you're really good at what you do. Yeah, I mean, it's really tough for him. So this is his fourth major injury in three years. And it's like, the weird thing is it doesn't think much of a pattern. I believe he had a foot injury, a hand injury, and maybe he was a knee injury.

Yeah. It just seems like every part of his body. It's all like random things. It seems like you break your hand. It's not really necessarily a trend. But he has an uphill battle anyways to establish himself in the league. You know, obviously given where he was drafted, the guy's drafted behind him. And now it's just one more setback.

So if he broke his shooting hand, you would assume he's out for the season. And it's really kind of puts him in a tough spot because theoretically he could have up for an extension this offseason if he was, if they wanted to give him one. It especially hurts because, at least for me, the biggest uphill battle for a guy like Bagley is so much of the awareness stuff. If you're going to play him out of position, if you're going to play him in spots where he's not going to be optimally used, he has to be able to figure out how to contribute, fine spaces, fine angles, and especially on defense, figure out just how to be in the right places. And when you only play for six weeks at a time and you keep getting hurt over and over, there's just no way to develop that kind of feel. Yeah, my worry is if the Kings catch fire.

here in the aftermath of this, that it will be much tougher to work him back in than it already is. They had trouble just like finding the right fit for him, whether or not he plays with Roshan Holmes, whether he plays with Bielitsa, like, where do you really find him to optimize him? I wonder if like Halliburton gets in there and they reel off a couple wins, maybe they're feeling more excited than they're probably more prone to trade him and all of a sudden this thing kind of snowballed downhill. I guess that's a good point to basically just ask like, what do you think the Kings are going to do here? They're what, 15 and 24, I think. They're one of the worst teams in the West right now. Should they just like hit eject and just play for next

season? Or do you think there's any hope that like this team can maybe rally just a little bit in the second half? I think it's not about ejecting or playing for this season. It's just about finding lineups that make sense with Halliburton and Fox. So Halliburton's been the sixth man all season. And I think the obvious move is to make him the starter. Because, Because going forward, your team is built around your two star guards. They have not played that much together because Halliburton's been the second unit point guard. So now it's trying to play him and Fox together and just see what other pieces make sense. That's really the key.

Like the good thing for Sacramento, they've only been playing like seven or eight guys anyways. So they're losing games because they have no depth. So without back, they have even less depth. And they're probably still going to lose games. But they can still find roles around Halliburton and Fox. And as I was doing my article, what jumped out to me is when they play Halliburton, Fox, Healed Barnes, Holmes, they're plus 15 and almost 200 minutes.

That kind of small ball lineup has worked a lot. And it seems to make sense on paper to see what that comes up going forward. Well, especially if the reason not to play Fox and Halliburton and Buddy Heel together is that you're worried about the defense, I mean, it's already a disaster. Like, let's just put our best players on the floor. And especially as you're saying, Charks, let's put the two guys we're going to construct the future of our franchise around

to see what we have in that pairing specifically and see how we can build around them that's the part of this that makes sense it's just it's tough for Sacramento because they're kind of on the very edge of the teams that could plausibly talk themselves into trying to play for the play-in spots right now they should be going into the deadline anyway

thinking can we move on from Barnes like what's the market for him can we move on from Bialitza certainly I think he's a guy who doesn't really want to be there from the looks of it and who, you know, Luke Walton hasn't really wanted, didn't want to start at the very least. So there's some tension there. He's a plausible trade candidate. There's a lot of players on the King's roster that could be on the move. And so I don't think this changes your thinking from that perspective, or at least it shouldn't, in terms of how do we

maximize the trade assets we have and how do we put these young guys in the best positions to succeed. And that goes back into the fit anyways between Halliburton, Fox and Bagley. So the number that jumped out to me, I was looking at how. how Halliburton and Fox play with all their key players. And when Halliburton and Fox play with Bagley, they're minus 20. When Halliburton and Fox play with Holmes, they're plus 10. It just seems pretty clear to me that those guys make more sense with smaller players who can spread the floor around them

because Bagel can helping them on defense anyways. So that's what you kind of want to see going forward for the rest of this season. My question is Buddy, though. So let's say they insert Halliburton into that starting lineup. Does the three-guard lineup of Halberton-Fox-Healed work long-term? Because if not, I'm wondering if this is the deadline to move him because it's such a seller's market that getting a three-and-d wing, I wonder if you can get a pretty penny for him.

Wait, are we calling healed a three-and-d-wing or just a three? Three-in-sum-D? Three-in moves around and gets in front of people sometimes. He's a shooter. And, I mean, that's going to go for a premium on this market, regardless of what he can do on defense. I think there's some concern about his contract and whether teams want to take on that kind of money

for the player that he is. But, you know, I had this thought even just watching Buddy Heald in last night's game that he's going to catch on with a really good team at some point and he's going to be a flamethrower. Like he's such a clean shooter. He's so agile, he's so flexible in terms of the kinds of shots he can get off.

Once he gets on a team where there's one or two superstars where there's an established order where he just kind of slots in, he's going to be really good for them. You know, again, provided they can make up for the lack of the D and the 3&D. I think to me, I look at it like maybe if you hit a high draft pick, the goal should probably be to find a small forward to put next to Halliburton and Fox. And then that leads you to Harrison Barnes.

And does he, he's still young enough. He's only 28 that he could still make sense with their young players, but he could also still fetch a premium on the trade market. And that's kind of probably the big question over the next week and a half for the Sacramento King. is what Harrison Barnes is worth and do they trade him. Is Harrison Barnes the oldest young player in the NBA

or the youngest old player in the NBA? He has been there forever. This is his third big contract, right? Or did he didn't really get one on the, on the Warriors? This is his second rookie contract. Big contract with the Mavs, then big with the Kings, yeah.

I would say youngest old player. He's always kind of been an old man in a young man's body. He's seen some things, that's for sure. Yeah, I mean, we'll get into the Celtics portion of this with Jared in a little bit because they seem to be one of like the primary suitors for him. And he makes a lot of sense in that team considering what they need. But I mean, for the Kings, do it does it make sense to move on for him at this point?

It seems like based on the reporting, we should mention that they really want a lot for him. I don't know how much of that is posturing just a week out from the deadline. But I don't know. I mean, I imagine teams are asking for a lot for any player at this point because they're just so few sellers. I think it makes sense to trade him. and some of that is, if I'm running a team and Harrison Barnes is on it, I'm not banking on him having eternal trade value.

He is a guy who there is interest in right now, certainly with his body type, with who he can defend, with the way he's been playing, that's a valuable player. Is that going to be true next season? I don't know. This is kind of an unprecedented year for Barnes in a lot of ways in terms of the style and the efficiency,

the assertiveness with which he's driving the ball. Maybe that's all just development. Maybe this is just who he is now. or maybe it's Harrison Barnes having a career year and you should strike where in the iron's hot. I would say even if he takes a step back next season, just in terms of positional value, it's always going to be there.

You start looking at how many six-foot-eight guys can defend the three and the four, can space the floor, can move the ball, can get their own shot. He has that skill set in his bag, and that skill set is hard to find. Every team needs it. If I'm the Kings, I like,

I want more Harrison Barnes on my team, not less. Right. Yeah. I mean, the Celtics can use him right now. And a bunch of other teams could as well. Let's take a quick break. And we come back. We'll talk about the Celtics side of this and other things going on in Boston leading into the deadline.

All right. We are backed and we are now joined by Jared Weiss of the Athletic. What's up, man? I feel like saying that you're joined by me is giving me too much credit. I'm just here. You glommed on. Yeah. So we're talking about the Celtics.

Maybe you've heard of them. They're the team in Philly? Boston. Boston. There we go. Right, right. So let's start here. So we're painting the Celtics as the most interesting team at the trade deadline, which pretty accurate, I would say. Just not along.

Let's start with this here. Would you consider the Celtics season thus far a disappointment? Oh, sure. It depends who you ask, the fact that they're not in first place by seven games would be disappointing to half of the fan base anyway. But if they didn't go on that four-game winning streak right before the All-Star break, I think it would have been a real panic situation. But that just kept the flames at bay. So right now, they feel relatively stable and they feel like they're kind of building off of something, especially because Campbell Walker is starting

to play decently. And Marcus Smart is back. And when Markets Markets back, that kind of changes a lot for them. So right now, things seem to feel like they're pretty fine, but they need to play at this level for the rest of the year. They need to be playing at like a 650, 700 level team for the rest of the year for people to be satisfied. Otherwise, absolutely is a disappointment. I mean, do you think that's possible given their health, like that they're now finally healthy? Yeah, it is possible, but it's only possible. It's not likely. It's a lot of stuff has to go their way. You know, So a big thing has been that Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown, while they were All-Stars, and they are definitely having really good years, they also have been shooting pretty poorly this year.

I think it was that Houston game was the first time that they both shot over 50% in the same game since all the way back to January in that Laker game where Marcus Smart first had his calf injury. So that whole stretch without Marcus Smart, they couldn't get both of their best players, so both have good nights at the same time. And if you look at all the other teams with a pair of elite stars, I mean, just like at Brooklyn, who's been playing with that Durant pretty much this whole time. And Kyrie and Hardin, pretty much every single night are giving them great performances.

And that's making up for their supporting cast, you know, also being maybe not nearly as deep, like kind of how the Celtics are in the same position. So the Celtics just haven't been getting that from their big stars. So it's just going to be so much easier for those guys to perform more efficiently when they actually have smart and kemba back and really fulfilling their role in the offense. So I just think that the severe erraticism that they were experiencing for most of the season is going to smooth out a lot, and that's just going to help kind of just lower or raise the tide that's going to raise all the ships for them.

The supporting cast really does seem like the big question mark. I mean, Charks, what do you think the Celtics need right now? I mean, beyond playing time, Lord Moore, that'd be the main. Right. Do we want to jump to the young guys here? Because this is definitely something that is in our wheelhouse. I mean, it does feel like to a certain extent they were counting on some of these young guys to really bully just like the bench there. And especially like after the injury started to set in, you really got exposed. The team really got exposed as to like how green they really are, no pun intended. But I mean, let's start with Time Lord because he's probably the most fascinating one. Like is the team better off with him starting Jared or are you not as. sold on the Time Lord era in Boston starting just now? Oh, literally the last story I just published was Start Time Lord. So I'm all on board. And, you know, Jarks, if you check the text receipts, because my text all got erased for some reason, I think he and I have been going back and forth on

Timeload for over a year now on his potential. And I mean, the guy is doing everything that we thought he could be doing by his fourth season, I think, at this rate. And the fact that that's starting to come out now with just finally getting consistent playing time. He hadn't played more than 14 minutes in like five straight games up until the last three weeks of his entire career. He just never has had consistent time, a consistent role in a rotation, and just a chance of build off of a good game. And, you know, part of that was deserved in that he was just so mistake prone on defense. I don't think any center in the NBA was taking as bad angles manning the pivot as he was. I mean, The guy would just get blown by like seven times a game.

You know, like if a baby looked up at the sky, he would jump. It's like the guy bites on every single semblance of an up fake that's ever existed. And now that he's playing more consistently, I think he's feeling less pressure to make those big plays. And it's actually just starting to kind of smooth out the rough edges on his game so that he can kind of just focus on doing the normal stuff. And then the brilliant plays are going to happen organically over the course of the game. Yeah, I was going to say the thing that jumped out to me, there was a game against the Pelicans a few weeks ago. And he blocked Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram on one-on-one plays. And it's like how many centers in the NBA could possibly do that?

So that game was the best game of his career up to that point. And I was trying to kind of warn people, I know you just saw this game on national TV. And Doris Burke is talking about him like he's the next to Kebib Batumbo. But just be careful because that was literally the best game of this career. We need to see more of it. But I think we've seen between the last game against Houston, which is like he was going against Justin Patton, so I'm pretty sure most of us could put up a double-double in that game.

That's not like the best example of him playing elite competition, but there was another example of him having an elite game. And I think he's put it together enough of these now that the Celtics need to act at the deadline as if they're betting on him being their main center. Yeah, I mean, he's got to be one of the key figures here. I think for Boston. One way or the other. It's either he is the starter at center.

He is the guy who allows you to move a Tristan Thompson or a Daniel Tice if you want to explore those options. Or if you want to get really ambitious, he's an attractive trade piece. I think by far the most attractive of their young players that they have to offer. To me, he's kind of at the center of a lot of different intersections when we talk about the possibilities of what Boston could be doing. You just slowed down. He's working himself into a trade here. So he has to be careful. Well, it's interesting that they've been connected to so many big men, like, you know,

the Vucevich gets thrown out here a lot and a couple other guys. But it seems like they're just almost stocked with bigs. And I wonder, like, especially with smart back in there, you almost have more reason to go with the solo bigs and kind of scratch the two big starting lineup that they've been going with. Like, it's so weird to me. Like, is the team at its best with, you know, Kemba, Jalen, Tatum, smart and time. is that like their best lineup right now? Yep, absolutely. And there's going to be a lot of nights

where Daniel Tice is the guy, because Tice is a really good stretch big. You know, even though he's certainly limited with his physicality and there's certain matchups that they're just going to bowl him over. But for the most part, he really works as that stretch big. And that's the one thing that Rob Williams can't do. However, Rob Williams has a verticality space

or just a lot threat going through the middle. It's pretty clear now that that is really blowing up defenses. and it's not going to it's not going to impact the defense on a play-by-play basis as consistently as tight stretching the floor, but it's also going to allow for so many big plays. And this is a team full of players that can make big plays. So if you kind of balance that out, you can get enough big plays throughout a run that you're still going to be on top. So, yeah, I think that's the lineup there. And as far as them targeting bigs, I mean, frankly, a lot of that is, I think, noise coming from outside of, of,

Hustin, frankly, but I do know that they have been aggressively pursuing Busevich. And that's a matter of that they have a bunch of good centers, but they don't have any great centers. And they have, if Kemba Walker is fully healthy, of Marcus Smart is fully healthy, they have All-Star to Borderline All-Star caliber players in every single position except for the five. So they could either have really good depth or they could just have five basically All-Star caliber players in their lineup. And that's kind of what they need to do if they're going to take down all these super teams around the league. Jared, it seems like Boston has had kind of a mercenary mindset to the five over the last

couple of years in terms of how they're spending money, how they're dedicating their resources. You mentioned pursuing Vouch, which to me signals like a kind of sea change or at least an interest in a particular kind of player. Do you think they're thinking around that position has shifted at all? Or is that just a matter of this guy may or may not be available at the right time and he's clearly very talented and he fits our team? That's a great question because the middle ground is Miles Turner, who's making almost half of what Vooch is making, and is probably half as good as Vucevich, even though it's obviously a different type of player. Actually, maybe not that different, but they didn't want him. A lot of it because they just felt that they'd rather either go sub-MLE on their center or go max on their center. There's just, there's not much room in between value-wise there. And so they've, they've

been sheeping out on the center position and emphasizing the wing position for a long time now, which is, I mean, most around the league, they've been considered to be ahead of the curve on that. And now the curve is caught up. So they're trying to now figure out what's their next zig ahead of the curve at this point. So, hey, maybe investing in centers that are mediocre, bigger role defenders is that Zick, who knows. But so they, I mean, they've gotten, they've really gotten all they needed out of Daniel Tice. and if Tice didn't improve so much last season, they would have been really screwed.

And they got a little bit lucky and also a shrewd move on their part to bet on him. And that worked out really well. But now that he's about to be a free agent, he's probably going to get 15 plus million somewhere. So he's no longer going to be a good value pick for them. And so they need to kind of decide, are we just going to invest in Rob Williams

or do we need to swing for the fence at this position right now? So they're just kind of caught in that limbo. But I don't think the things, thinking has changed except for that they saw how Tice as good as he was. Once they went up against Bam out of Bio, that matchup is what cost them their trip to the finals, really in the end. The thing I don't get, you're talking about swinging for the fences and going for someone like Vucevich, is like what is the trade back to the other team that makes sense, even for Miles Turner at this point?

Like, who are you putting in this trade? Are you putting in smarter Kemba? Are you dumping all your first round picks? how is that going to work out trade-wise? Well, Langford is untouchable, right? Can we get into that for a second? Like, Charks and Jared, please, I say this with all due respect to Romeo Langford. Can someone please explain to me what the appeal of Romeo Langford is? Is that a thing?

I haven't heard that yet. Is that a thing? I don't know that it's a thing so much as every time I see fake Celtics trade ideas bandied about, the linchpin of it is either an Aaron Neesmith or a Romeo Lankford. Look, I think we're putting Rob Williams in his own category among these young players. We're saying he's either a very valuable trade asset and trade piece or he's central to their future. That's kind of in his own group. All these other young guys on their roster, I just don't see a lot of ballast here to get a meaningful trade done. So, I mean, to me, it's always a matter of like how many picks are we attaching to this thing to make this worth some other teams while.

But I just see a lot of stock put in Langford and Neath Smith's future. And Neath Smith, I can kind of understand like where he's. he fits what he does theoretically for you down the line. I don't think he's ready to do that for the Celtics yet, but what he could do. Lankford, I don't know what to make of the idea that he's supposed to be a good NBA player in the near term. I agree with you. You're totally right.

When we saw the brief flashes of him playing in the bubble, you could see that he had really improved his game. A lot of the high school, Romeo Lankford was coming out. He was showing some nice pick and roll playmaking. He was really attacking in transition. He's a, you don't really. how good of an athlete he is until he's jumping over somebody at the rib, but he doesn't really seem like it for most of the time. So the guy's got a lot of, there's a lot of skill there.

I think he's a four-year project, and they keep drafting these four-year projects. And so they're always in this tricky situation where, like, Terry Rozier is the perfect example. I remember the first story ever broke in my entire career when I was back at a Celtics blog was that they were in the running for Serge Abaka before he ended up getting traded. to Toronto at like 2016. And I was told by a team source that they were not going to trade Terry Rozier for Sir Jabaca. And at that point, Terry Rozier kind of sucks.

He was barely getting off the bench. It was in the second season. And everyone outside of Boston was like, why did they care about this guy? And of course, every single rookie, it takes them basically four years until they turned into who they are. And now obviously Terry Rozier is a really good player. So they were smart to play the long game on that one. It worked exactly as they predicted it.

And that has been their MO forever. It's that we're not going to give up young assets for our short-term rental. So it makes sense that they're not going to do it for some of these guys on the market. But like, Vucevich is obviously a totally different ballgame. That's an all-star in his prime who's on a good contract. So I just think for them, you know, maybe Rob Williams is who Orlando wants. They have Mobamba. So it's hard to, it's really hard to tell how much they're still invested in Moamba.

I hope they are because like the guy's got a lot of potential. But I think if they're going to get Vucevic, they have to throw in three draft picks, two of their recent first-rap picks on top of that. You have to overwhelm them and go for a Drew Holiday-type package because there are other teams out there than have a blue-chip prospect that could be a centerpiece of an all-star trade. And they have to overwhelm those offers by just mortgaging their entire future, which is totally worth it because they already have like seven first-round picks on the roster right now as it is. Yeah, I think that's an interesting. like big picture question with the Celtics. I think like in a lot of ways Langford probably represents it. Like do they have to go all in now?

Like I heard Danny talking about like, well, maybe we don't need to use this trade exception until the summer. You know, that's probably where it'll be better to use. Maybe you break it off and use a bit of it this time. Like my question, I guess is like, aren't they fine as is? Isn't this kind of the team that they expected to be when healthy? Because I watched the Nets game, for instance.

And even though they've lost that game, I was like, this team is pretty good. And it struck me that, like, maybe we didn't give the smart injury as much credit as as it needed. Like, if Drew Holiday gets injured, that's a fringe all-star. And you could say, well, the buck didn't play as well because they didn't have fringe all-star. When smart goes out, it doesn't seem like as big of a deal.

But it actually was a huge deal because the team is top-heavy. And to play those guys, you know, the younger guys, it means just, like, putting in a lot of, like, worse minutes out there. So I guess it's a long-winded way of saying, like, is this team fine as is if they don't make a big deal? I would say it's more about, like, the big picture of it. Because you look at their salaries, right? You got J-L-L-on-A-Max contract, Tatum on a max contract,

Marker Smartably up soon, he'll want a bigger deal. Kema's on a max. So this is like $20.5 million exception, this is their like big chance to add one more key player to their core. Otherwise, this is the team for like three or four years. They don't have much flexibility. So it's like this is the chance to strike while the iron's hot to finish out your core and add one more really good player

because if you don't use it now, it's not coming back, basically. A big thing is that they've been active on the trade market with Kembo Walker over the past few years because that's obviously someone that a lot of teams are interested in and he's had a tough time in Boston. And so if he doesn't say healthy this year, they're in a situation where they might have to try to look to to move off of this huge salary, and they might not be able to acquire talent to replace him at that

point. So if that worst case scenario happens, this could be their chance to bring in a player that would essentially be what they would want to be getting back for trading away a max salary slot like that. So that's another way that they might have to approach it. But either way, it's just as simple as they had enough talent to be a championship team. They lost Gordon Hayward, and they turned down a chance to get like some good players in return that all it would have done was just hamper them into the tax and just take it away their flexibility. But they would have gotten good players. They pass on that. So if they're going to pass on that, they just like to not piss everyone else off, they have to get a really good player to fill that space in their window to do that ends this upcoming off season.

So if they don't do it by this upcoming off season, that's basically a sign that ownership didn't want to pay the luxury tax. or didn't believe in this team. And that would be infuriating to everybody that's been invested in watching them grow over the past few years. Yeah, I think we're zeroing in on some of the complication here, which is that they don't want to go into the tax right now for what Aange called a Band-Aid solution. That makes sense.

I think that's totally fair, given where they are. But I don't know that they have the players and the picks to do better than a Band-Aid right now. And then the question becomes, if you stretch this out into the off-season, what has materially changed about your situation? The hard cap math changes a little bit, but in terms of what they have to deal,

what they can come to the table with, I don't know that kicking that particular can down the road does them a lot of good. From everything that I've been told, it seems like they're convinced that there's players that they can trade for this offseason that they can't trade for now. And it's not just Bradley Beal.

There's more to it. So I don't know if they have a sense that the Carlstown situation is going to fall apart because obviously that would be the perfect guy for them. You know, they want a new center. How about the best offensive center out there pretty much? So I think that they feel that there's somebody else out there. And that's why I would just be really surprised if they made the Harrison Barnes deal,

which is pretty much sitting there for them. If they want to do it, they can throw in Neesmith a first rounder, maybe another first rounder. They can get that done pretty easily. That deal is there for them. So if they do that, I would be surprised. And if they do it, you know what? It's a safe play.

And it gets to someone that isn't as good as Gordon Hayward, but it's still pretty solid and is in his prime and is on a good deal. And he fits the exact position that they're looking to fill. So that wouldn't be the end of the world. It would just be really disappointing if after all this buildup, all this potential, that you end up with the safe play. You know what's funny about that? I was we were just talking about the Kings in the last segment,

is if I'm the Kings, I don't really want what that's supposed to offer. He's on a good contract. He's still pretty young. Like, why do I want Romeo, Langford, and Aaron Neesmith and like a late first-round pick for a 28-year-old wing who can defend two positions and play off Fox and Halliburton. I think that's the other part of it too, is the better the player that you trade to the Celtics,

the less valuable their picks become. And I don't know that Harrison Barnes is like moving the needle in some dramatic way, but if he is a stabilizing piece for them to fill out their rotation where, you know, this team just kind of needs some minutes, honestly, to balance out some of their lineups. I don't know that I would be crazy about that pick either.

The one thing that does work in Boston's favor is that they're so far back of the East teams that, and there's so many teams at the top of the West that are a few games ahead of them, it's going to be really hard for them to really jump draft pick spots. They're in this weird morass in the kind of the middle of both conferences where they can

go anywhere from the 15th pick to like the 21st pick at any moment, but they're probably not going to crack like 23 or above in all likelihood, unless they're like the best team in the league for the rest of the season, which I highly doubt is going to happen even if they bring Harrison Barnes

But even then, 15 to 21, like, that's a somewhat valuable pick, but it's not like earth-shattering. You know, it's not going to change my world to get it. So if we're talking about needle-moving players that they could realistically get at the deadline, is John Collins at the top of that list? Do you guys think he fits at all? And, like, would you be willing to pay the price that would probably take to, like, prime away from Atlanta at this point? I find myself a little bit skeptical just because, like, Let's get this part straight.

A team that just fired its coach out of urgency to make the playoffs this year is going to flip John Collins for Aaron Neesmith and future. That part of the math doesn't really make sense in terms of the hawks motivating interests. Would he move the needle for Boston? I think he'd be great for Boston. I think he fits a lot of what they do.

I think the steps he's made defensively this season are really encouraging for who he could be as a playoff performer. But what's in it for Atlanta? That's the thing is you've got to figure out what the trade package because obviously, you know, with Boston, it's always, I don't even know this is true or not, but the rumor is like, okay, they want to kill you in every trade, right?

They don't want to give you fair value for a trade. So what are they really sending back? Will they give up two first round picks? Or they give up Pritchard and Williams? Like, it's hard for me to imagine them putting together a package big enough to get a needle-moving player, really. As far as that, like, that rumor about the one that kill people every trade, the way that I've always heard of it is just that they're willing to walk away

pretty easily from trades that they just don't really bow them basically. So you can't perceive that if you're on the other end of that of being like, oh, but they're not going to work with me unless they're going to kill me in this deal. But from their perspective, they're thinking, like, we have our price pretty clearly. We're going to tell them what it is. And if they're not interested, we're just going to walk away from it. But I have heard of a few instances where they've kind of like really tighten the needle or they changed something at the last seconds, that definitely pissed teams off. So, I mean, they're as aggressive as it gets for sure at negotiation. But as far as Atlanta, this is a great example of how if they're going to get a deal done for a player like John Collins right now, they have to be willing to dramatically overpay.

They have to be willing to throw in three first round picks, probably multiple young players on top of that. Like, they have to give an offer that's so extreme that Atlanta is willing to just to lose their restricted rights on Collins and not be a player for Collins in the free agency. And like people forget, having a restricted free agency. agent means that you essentially have that player and you still have full control over that situation aside from your walkaway number now in this year's free agency market because the player supply is so thin relative to the market demand college is probably going to get a completely undeserved max contract like he clearly is not playing at that level but he's probably going to get a deal really high it's possible that alana so screw it we're already committed to clincapella deandre hunter's probably

going to be, he seems like he's maybe on his way to getting close to a max in a couple of years, so maybe they decided they don't want to do it. But I'm pretty sure Boston would be willing to do it if they are that team committed to the tax. See, that's why I'm wondering. You're talking about big picture. What about a smaller move? Like maybe like one of the other Orlando guys, like a Terrence Ross or an Evan Fornier, does that seem more like plausible to you in terms of, hey, we'll make a move on the edges, not give up a ton, but get a good quality player back? I think everyone on Orlando's roster, except for Jonathan Isaac, is probably a play for them. I think they would like any one of those guys.

And 48 is the toughest guy to pin down his value in the league, because it doesn't seem like he has much value from everyone that I've talked to, but he puts up the kind of numbers and has a kind of role that you would expect would cost a first round figure two. But it doesn't seem like anybody's interested in throwing a first after him. So we'll see if somebody loses that game of chicken, I guess, or wins that game of chicken. actually pays that out. But Ross and Fornier are the level of the player. One, they're guards, and I think that the subtlinks need more shooting with big wing size that can handle defending three through five, basically. But so even if they do decide to get those guys, that's another great example with the same exact team with Sir Tobaka as another instance of just like a player

that just is not of the caliber that's going to move the needle for you. That's worth getting rid of one of your young guys. Now, at the other hand, unlike four years ago, they have so many young guys. They have too many young guys. They can't even give their young guys minutes. Yeah, I think this is where Ross comes into the conversation for me is less as a trade exception candidate and more as can we cobble together enough other salary, you know, whether it's like a Tristan Thompson-based deal or something like that to get it. You know, Tristan and Neesmith and some mild draft considerations or something like that. Because if you're going to do that, you're going to dip into that exception. If they want to keep the exception

with its full potency going into next offseason, cutting it in half with a Terrence Ross salary, eating into it with a Harrison Barnes salary, that stuff kind of just defeats the point of it. And so if you can find a way to work another avenue towards some of these guys, and Barnes salary is a little bit big for that, but I think Ross is right in that wheelhouse,

that kind of makes sense in terms of what could actually help the Celtics right now, but doesn't fit that kind of bandaid that Angel was talking about that's going to put them into a tough, financial spot. So who is on our list, on the top of our list of getable guys who aren't at the top of the market? Is it a George Hill? Is it PJ Tucker and just hoping that he could learn how to shoot again?

Is it Lamarcus Aldridge and hoping he could learn how to walk again? Like what makes sense as like a realistic like target here? Well, we should clarify. And Jared, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Celtics are hard cap this season. there's a pretty limited window here that they actually have to spend. I think someone like LaMarcus would really strain that unless they're sending out a bunch of salary, right?

They're at $19.8 million by my calculation. So LaMarcus Aldridge to trade for him is a non-starter. There's no way in hell it's going to happen. They're going to, if he gets bought out, they're probably one or two in line for him because they would love to just have another stretch big. And the big question mark is, do they want to trade Tristan Thompson?

Tristan Thompson was someone that they really wanted for postseason defensive purposes and leadership purposes. And he's been playing pretty solid for the last month or so now that he's been playing with a real point guard in Kemper Walker. And he's had enough time since his hamstring injury in the off season to kind of build this game up. So he's actually been pretty solid for them. But it certainly seems with the way that Rob Williams was playing and Tice is continuing to be really good this year, he's just like the third center. And Brad Stevens, you can tell he was jumping for joy when he said it the other night. but he said after, I think it was the Houston game, we're not going to be able to play all three centers anymore

because we're not going to be playing double big anymore. And I'm sure that was one of the greatest moments of his entire life. And I'm sure it's one of the greatest moments of most people's lives. But Tristan Thompson is not as necessary to the day-to-day rotation as bringing in a Terrence Ross or even just a PJ Tucker, assuming PJ Tucker can remember how to shoot. And that's a huge question mark with a lot of these guys, a lot of these vets like Blake Griffin, for instance, the Celtics were hard after Blake Griffin.

Obviously, the Nets went after him. Blake Griffin was washed as hell this year. He was horrible this year. But every contending team is pretty convinced that he was going to be very effective for them. So I'm assuming a lot of these teams are assuming that PJ is going to be really good, that Ginger Redick is going to be really good once they're in a winning situation again and they actually give a crap. So, you know, flipping Thompson for one of those guys, especially PJ Tucker, who I think brings a lot of the same. leadership skills, power under the rim kind of stuff to the table.

That would certainly make sense, but they don't want to just cut bait on Thompson just to desperately find more shooting and not even just think about like, well, why did we bring Tristan Thompson here in the first place? Yeah, can I ask about that Thompson contract? Because that one was always curious to me, because if you're going to make a bet that you shouldn't pay a lot of money on Biggs, like spending the entire MLE on Tristan Thompson always struck me as really curious. Was the goal there just to in part, like maybe get like a middle tier contract in order to move it later?

Or did they really think like Tristan Thompson could solve a lot of our issues? Well, so the first thing that happened was, so they gave the MLE to Paul Millsap. And Millsap said, give me a couple hours on the signing between Denver and Boston. He picked Denver in the end. But they thought they were going to get Bill Sap. And so they had to pivot from there. Obviously, they were like, oh, who do we call now? had their list. And Serge Abaka was, I think, the other guy on the list. He was the guy that I thought

should have been their top target. And obviously, Abaka wanted to go to the clippers. Don't blame the guy at all. So I think it was just like that was all they had left at the center spot. And then if you look at the rest of the league, there weren't really any other centers in the sub-MLE tier that really made sense. And the big thing that everyone kept complaining to me about was why didn't they get a wing with the MLE? Name a wing that costs less than $10 million on the market last year. there weren't any. It was like they could have gotten David Nawaba probably. I think I'd rather interest Thompson. So it was just like they lost out on the top choices on their list for the MLE and they had to settle for Thompson, which, you know, I think Thompson's probably worth six or

seven million dollars. So if you're paying an extra couple million, not a big deal, especially because he's a very usable contract at deadline time. So it actually, it's probably been beneficial to the team that they overpaid for him because Mark, Marcus Smart was their only other guy in that kind of $10 to $15 million range that they could use to match salaries without touching the TPE. And obviously, Marcus Smart is a little bit more value than Tristan Thompson does. You got to love the NBA when you can get paid as a matching salary, not even because you're good, just because theoretically, a year from now, we might need you to construct a trade. Like, that's just amazing. I think also at Tristan, the shock of watching Bam just dunk on Daniel Tice and just take his soul.

in that game six, it probably was still reverberating in the Celtics front office. They're like, we've got to have some insurance that we don't just have that matchup happen again. And then Justin,

you were talking about, when you said George Hill, they don't talk to me, like talking about a wing who could shoot and maybe guard bigger positions. How about Trevor Areza? Like, he's still around?

Does he exist? Maybe. Are we sure that he's alive still? He was putting up videos of him shooting during the L-Star break. So he was advertising his availability pretty, well, that's for sure. He's starting for Portland

last season and gave him good minutes. It's not crazy. I mean, he's 36 years old, basically. Is 36-year-old Trevor is really the answer to the problems here? Well, the other answer is semi-Ogillet, right? It's one thing to trade for a rental. It's another thing to trade for a guy who's literally going to retire

once he's done with the season. So, yeah, I think they probably won't go for him. And to your point, I think they'd rather have Ojolay. Ojolay has been shooting like 37% from three. He's a decent defender. He's got some defensive versatility. He knows the system, even if he can't do a lot in it.

But he's like a solid ninth, tenth, man. And I don't think they really need to go after these guys necessarily. So who does that leave us with? We've gone through every name, like rumored in the trade market. Like, Jared, is there someone like you think makes sense that we haven't named yet? Honestly, JJ Redding is a buyout. He's like the ideal guy for them, assuming. that he actually is going to shoot and not get ejected.

Otherwise, I think it's just the big swing guys. It's the big swing guys and then guys that they can fit into the N.S. Cantor TP, which is about $4.5 million or something like that. So, you know, there's anyone that's making $4.5 million can pretty much be traded at any time at any place in the NBA. So, you know, you take your pick from those kind of guys. You know, they have plenty of first round picks to throw out there to just pry one of those guys out of a team that doesn't even have their guy on the trade block. So I think it's most

likely that that's the kind of move that they end up making and they save the TP completely intact for the offseason. And then Celtics fans just yell at me for the next six months until the offseason arrives and then we see what happens. Yeah, I guess what I'm curious is if they make a minor move for like a seventh, eighth, ninth man, what's a realistic expectation for them for that version of this team the rest of the season? Like winning one playoff series? Is that kind of kind of the goal still? Yeah, because the three teams at the top of the East are clearly better than they are. And unless even the Harrison Barnes trade wouldn't even put them,

maybe put them like at the bottom of that tier at best. So is that tier, the Sixers, the Nets, and the Hornets? Nice. So you clearly have been following me on Twitter lately because I am all about the hive. the Hornets are my favorite team to watch the NBA. And honestly, the Hornets are my upset special if we're picking an upset special in the East. I mean, these guys, when they get hot in crunch time,

nobody can beat them. It's a Terry Rozier effect. That would be pretty amazing if Rojier and Hayward played the Celtics. Like, I would be all here for that. And then Kempa playing the Hornets. That would be really fast. That would be incredible.

Unfortunately, I just don't think the Celtics are going to get high enough in the seating to be able to pull that off. So more likely looking at a four-five Miami-Boston series. Like, how do you feel about that right now? Rematch the conference finals in the first round? Right now, it's not too concerning because Miami has been like kind of trying to find their footing and all their guys that were performing so well in the playoffs last year are still like kind

of, you know, finding that form, I guess. But we know that Jimmy Butler is going to have a metamorphosis whenever the playoffs start. He does it every single time. and Celtics are a little bit better equipped to handle him at this point, but we'll see what happens with the band matchup. I mean, the band was just so insanely dominant, and he was playing hurt.

Like, imagine him not being hurt in that matchup. I just, even with Tristan Thompson there, I feel like it's not going to be enough. So it's going to, it's probably going to go to the distance again, and it's probably going to come down to the Celtics. They're just hot shooting the ball.

So you'll have to forgive me, but I'm having flashback. here to where we're saying that the Celtics probably aren't going to make a move now because they're coveting bigger stars in the future. And while perhaps like there aren't the right players to really go after now, is there anything you can get a sense of that like the past might inform what they do in the future? Like are they worried at all that they'll miss certain opportunities to take advantage of this team in this window, whatever or however big it might be in order to chase the idea that maybe a town could come on the market in the summer.

That's a great point because I think that they were passing on Paul George leaving Indiana and Jimmy Butler leaving Chicago, which is like 17 teams ago, because they wanted to get to this point. They wanted to get to this point with Tatum and Brown and have that ideal core. And that works. That bet paid off. And of course, a whole part of that calculus was that they were also going to trade Anthony Davis, and then Anthony Davis said, ha ha, no way. So that really screwed things up for them, and they've been kind of trying to pivot and recover from that ever since. Not to mention, obviously, Kyrie, you know, failing the way that it did was another

kind of shock to screwed everything up. So I think that them realizing how fleeting, acquiring a star player is and even retaining a star player is, should make them more willing to settle for the burdened hand rather than the two in the bush, if I even got that metaphor right, especially because they already have Tatum and Brown. They already have the centerpieces. They don't need to get, they don't need to get in Anthony Davis anymore. They really just need to get like a Nick Vucevich at this point. They need, actually, that would be ideal. I think if they get John Collins or Aaron Gordon, I think that would be great. And I think they shouldn't go for those guys. Those are the guys that

they need. They need a four who can't run an offense himself, but when you have all the great offensive players around him and all he needs to do is catch the ball and shoot it or drive it, then they can really dominate in that kind of situation. So those are the guys I think they should be going for. But like obviously I get it. If you want to hold out for Bradley Beal or another superstar like that and you think you can put together a big three of Brown, Tatum, and Beal, like sure, you got to go for that, but you can't miss out on some really good turnkey opportunities in the process. So at least luckily for them, if Aaron Gordon doesn't get traded at this deadline. He's definitely going to get traded in the offseason. Everything that I've

been hearing is that he wants out of there. I think, uh, was it Chris Haynes, I think this morning reported that he would welcome a change of scenery. Uh, welcome a change of scenery is an understatement. I, I, I can promise you that from everything that I've heard. He wants to move on. And so it's going to happen pretty soon. And I guess the Vucevich decision, this deadline is going to be the first, uh, thing that, the first domino that falls in that whole chain reaction of what's going to happen in Orlando. But the Celtics should be taking advantage because they can get some good talent at really lower prices

than they should because Orlando is kind of on the verge of a fire sale. It all comes back to Vouch, baby. That's what we've settled. Six degrees of Vouch out here. All right, that's a good place to end it. Jared, man. Thank you so much for joining us. That was great, guys. Thanks. Yeah, I appreciate you, man. We can catch

your work at The Athletic. Anything else here on a plug? The Daily Ding podcast. That's our morning show at The Athletic. You should listen to that when you're done listening to all of your favorite ringer podcast. And you'll hear my voice on there every once in a while. There you go. Perfect plug. All right. Thanks again to Jared.

Thanks to Charks, to Rob. And to Big Kerm on production. We'll be back next week. See you then.