The Ringer NBA Show - The Celtics Start to Show Their Cracks. Plus: The Trade Deadline Rumor Mill | The Mismatch (Ep. 369)

Episode Date: January 15, 2019

The fraying Boston Celtics slide even further (0:44), James Harden continues his historic scoring streak amid the Houston Rockets’ injury plague (23:04), and trade rumors pile up as the deadline approaches (34:42). Hosts: Chris Vernon, Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. True Detective is back, and The Ringer's Chris Ryan and Jason Concepcion are our guides as we navigate the twisting pathways of season three's plots, themes, and characters on the flat circle, a true detective after show. Follow Jason and Chris as they chase down leads, explore each episode's cultural context, and discuss true crime cases that mirror the ones in the show. Join the guys live every Sunday night after True Detective on the ringer's YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook pages. to The Ringer NBA show. This is The Mismatch. I'm Chris Varnan. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O'Bomberr, A.K.A. Kevin O'Brien Kavanaugh! Kavanaugh! What's up, Berna? How are you doing after last night?

Been better. We will get to that in a little bit, but we have a ton of stuff to talk about, including everything that happens within the context of these different teams. could possibly affect an upcoming trade deadline, which we are now just about three weeks away from, not the least of which is a team that seemingly every week we go, have the Celtics gotten it together or what's wrong with the Celtics? Yes, no, yes, no. It goes back and forth.

Everybody expected them to be one of the premier teams in the NBA. They were expected to win a boatload of games. And there they are last night getting run out by the. Brooklyn Nets. This is after they had gotten beaten by the Orlando Magic. And so they get run out by the Nets. They lose that game. DeAngelo Russell goes supernova against them. And then we are now in the mode of the comments after the game. And over the weekend, it was Kyrie Irving. And then last night, it was Jalen Brown who made the headlines. We'll let everybody hear what he had to say after the game last night. We're just going to have each other's back.

end of the day. We can't make comments. We can't point fingers. We just got to continue to empower each other and have each other's back. If we don't, we point start pointing fingers. Everybody's going to go into their own little shell. We've got to continue to play basketball starts from the top to the bottom, not from the bottom to the top, but from the top to the bottom. So we've got to continue to empower each other and make the best of this. We got a lot of talent. We know what we're capable of doing. We just got a matter of going out and doing it, playing free. playing loose, having fun. So I think everybody correctly surmised that this was, in contrast to what Kyrie Irving

had said and been doing, because it seemed like he was blaming the young guys on the roster. Jalen Brown comes out last night and he says, it's got to start from the top to the bottom, and we've got to empower each other rather than pointing fingers at each other. And so this seemed like a, you know, like I said, in direct contrast to what Kyrie has been saying, what is going on? It's been so weird all season long, Chris, hasn't it? Where it seems like every single time things have been fixed for Boston.

I mean, when me, Danny Chow and Jonathan Charks recorded last week's corner three on Thursday, that was a moment where it seems like things were good. Then they lost on Thursday night. They are sliding again. And Kyrie had those really odd comments about how the young guys just don't understand, you know, what it takes to win the finals. And look, man, I don't think. think it's the right approach to go to the media with that like you can have those conversations

privately there's nothing to gain from going publicly so it just seems like the issues are the same now that they were when we first chatted about this back in october and november that right now there's just guys who are stepping outside of their roles you have jalen brown who was outstanding in the playoffs last year who you know is a young player who wants to keep getting better you have terry rosier who wants to get paid 19 or 20 million dollars this coming off season when he's a restricted free agent. Gordon and Hayward is still not the same old Gordon and Hayward we saw pre-injury. This team just has a number of issues, whether it's chemistry, whether it's Hayward just not being himself and still receiving 25 to 30 minutes per game. I don't know, man. The mix

just is very odd and I wonder if obviously the ultimate goal, Chris, is to trade for Anthony Davis the summer, but I wonder if there's any minor tweaks that they can make this season before the deadline to actually maximize their chances for this particular season. You know what it makes me think about is the old, and this is the leader of the ringer, Bill Simmons, in his book of basketball, the major context is the secret of basketball is that it's not about basketball. And there's this story in there where Isaiah Thomas is saying that maybe Adrian Dantley was a better player than Mark Aguier, but Aguier was a better fit for the team.

and we wouldn't have won if it wasn't for that. And so what you've got to see is, yes, there can be players on teams and teams loaded with talent, but that's not why they win. It's because they ignore statistics. They know their role within the team and that they value winning over everything else. And so it's not just throwing together a combination of awesome players. And for whatever reason, something is off with this combination of awesome. some players. For sure. Yeah, I think I think that that's a great example to give, right? Where oftentimes

you have a lot of talent, but it doesn't make a difference if guys aren't accepting their roles. This happens a lot, especially after a team wins a championship or makes a long playoff run like Boston did last year. And then guys, you know, they start thinking that they can do more than they actually should be doing within their roles. But I think on the other side of this, Chris, is have to also give Brooklyn some credit for last night's game. They've been playing really hard as well. And Kenny Atkinson went to the zone. He threw it like a curveball on the first and second quarter, and then he went to it heavy in the third quarter, and that really just messed up Boston's offense, their flow in that

third quarter before they surged in the fourth to try to make a comeback late in the game. But the nets are a tough team. They've been playing tough basketball, and Boston didn't have Kyrie Irving or Marker Smart, but that doesn't change the fact that, as we're talking about here, Boston has some underlying issues that just don't seem to go away. And anytime it seems like they're gone, they just come right back. And looking at the team, I'm not sure what solves that. I thought one of the smart things Kyrie said recently was after game 70,

these problems just solved themselves, guys put away their ego all in the name of pursuing a championship. But I'm not sure that's a guarantee. Let me ask you, well, first things first, when you just mentioned the zone defense, I do want to touch on this because we haven't talked about this much on the pocket. But in terms of watching games on a regular basis, and if you're flipping through league pass, this is something that teams have implemented to great success over and over again this year. I feel like it is happening a lot more this year than it has in the past. And I think it is because you have so many of these teams that are very dependent on a pick and roll offense.

There's so many awesome point guards. There's so many awesome point guards at running the pick and roll. And so now they run this pick and roll. They've got the decision to kick it over to the corner or they drive to the basket or they pick and pop or the obvious pick and roll play. And when these teams fall back into the zone, that's why it ends up making these offenses look so tremendously disjointed. Because so many of them are predicated upon this individual talent, maybe this one guy that is making choices on a regular basis. when you take that out of the mix and you make people run it. It's interesting you mentioned that too, the night after Syracuse goes and pulls this just absurd upset against Duke.

And they've done it obviously over and over again. And I wonder too, you know, it got me thinking last night if that is you've seen Syracuse in the NCAA tournament pull off these. Remember when they knocked off Michigan State that they had no business knocking off? You've seen them knock off teams over the years. and in the past where you watch the team and you're like, Jesus, that team just never seen the zone before. And I wonder if because, you know, obviously sometimes it trickles down to college, you've got more teams playing dribble drive slash isolation slash pick and roll.

That zone defense weirdly has become even more devastating when it's played correctly. Because now I see it in the NBA on a regular basis. And you see these teams look like they've never played basketball in their life. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I, you know, I wrote an article ahead of the postseason last year. The headline for that, if anybody wants to read it, was want to shock an elite NBA team. How about a dash of zone defense? And basically, it was about how early last season the Brooklyn Nets used zone against the Houston Rockets. And it was really effective in taking Houston out of their pick and roll. Houston's still got buckets like they always do. But it just changed the way they played because they weren't running as much picket. and roll. And we've seen a team like Dallas, especially when Dwayne Casey was their defensive coordinator, they use zone effectively. It was like, the example I use in there was like, it's like a baseball. Like if you're a fastball pitcher, sometimes you're going to throw in a breaking ball to keep the hitter off balance. So I think that's where we're seeing teams like Brooklyn and Miami,

especially those to use zone quite frequently this year. And you mentioned how it happens more across the league. It's mostly those two. But last season, according to Synergy, there was 718 possessions of zone defense over the full season for all the teams. This year already, it's at 1,176. So teams are using zone more already. And we're only about halfway through the season. Look at you back at it up with numbers. I just, it feels like, you know, I just watched a game against the heat.

I watched a game against the rockets last night. Well, I mean, it's funny, though, because I looked it up because last night I pitched an article about zone. Yeah. So it's like I pulled up these numbers this morning, like before recording, I was like, whoa. So it's funny that you've observed that as well, Chris. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think anybody that watches NBA basketball nightly and is flipping around on league pass, there's just so many times where you see these offenses get out of whack.

And it's because a team just dropped into a zone for maybe like, five, six minutes stretch. And these teams look so disjointed and the offense just looks so bad. Even a team as good as the Celtics last night. Yeah, exactly. They're not practicing that on a regular basis, right? They're not practicing zone offense. Exactly.

And that's the whole point. The first possession last night that Brooklyn went to the zone. I believe it was after a timeout, if I remember correctly. And they either forced a turnover or a 24-second violation. And this is coming after a timeout where Boston probably called at the design play. And Brooklyn's like, you know what? We're going to go zone. Right. Oh, yeah, it was 30 seconds of the game when Boston called that early timeout. That's when it was. And they came out and went zoned for just one possession in that first quarter. And Boston turned the ball over. It was like a

near 24 second violation. And that's the point. You're not going to go zone the full game. It's about, it's a change of pace in trying to surprise an offense. All right. Let me ask you two more questions on this real quickly. First, Brooklyn was relentless last night with their crowd chance. The biggest one, by a wide margin was when they were up by I believe 25 or 26.

And they ferociously were chanting, Kyrie's leaving. I mean, it was loud. You could audibly hear it if you were watching that game. Like that was one of those Iron Eagle is like doing

the read and it was of no consequence because you're just trying to, right? Like, it's just drowned out by Kyrie's leaving. And obviously they're attempting to get under the skin of the Boston Celtics. That being said, I did. Like, as it's happening, I'm thinking of myself like, damn, is he? Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I would still bet on Kyrie Stang. I haven't changed, you know, from that stance at all. But it's like we've talked about earlier in the season, Chris, there's always a chance. There's certainly a chance. that New York comes calling, or the Brooklyn Nets, even for that matter, come calling for Kyrie, and he decides to move closer to home for one of those two teams. Well, I told you this, Kev, a couple of weeks ago, I was at a Celtics game, and something that I'd never seen in my life took place, and that was, as the teams were all running

out to the court to warm up at halftime, in a tunnel that I was walking through, were Danny Aange and Kyrie Irving having a one-on-one at halftime. And I remember thinking, like, This is bizarre. I have never seen a player and a general manager having an off-to-the-side conversation in the middle of a game. And that was the first, like, I just remember thinking it was bizarre at the time. So obviously, listen, he's been upset throughout the year.

As I'm sure Bill Simmons will say at some point on his podcast this week, Kyrie Irving was not at game seven of the Eastern Conference finals between the Celtics and the Cavaliers last year. And Boston said it was because he had. deviated septum surgery. Seems like a pretty good day to schedule surgery for your deviated septum. I had deviated septum surgery years ago, and I wouldn't have scheduled it on game seven of a conference finals for any team, never mind a team that I'm playing for.

I don't know, man. You know, look, if I were a player on that team, I'd be like, how are you not going to be there, man? You're the team leader? You're not going to be there? I mean, like, we can't look back to something that happened in May and turn into something that it's not. but it's interesting than the less.

Okay, let me ask you about the team on the flip side because you did rightfully so. Give the praise to the Brooklyn Nets and they are now one game under 500. DeAngelo Russell, like I said, went Supernova last night. He's now averaging a tick under 19 points a game in a little less than 30 minutes a game. So he's not, you know, typically a young guy like that

is playing an extreme amount of minutes. They have a ton of guys on that team that have averaged over 20 minutes. I mean, a ton. Russell, Lavert, I know he's been out. Dinwiddie, Joe Harris, Jared Allen, Damare Carroll, Ronde Hollis Jefferson, Alan Crabb, and then this, is it Curricks? Is that the way I say it? It's Cootts.

Is that correct, Isaac? Yeah, I believe it's Currots. Yeah, Cricks. And then you've got Ed Davis, you've got Jared Dudley. I mean, you just have a million guys on this team that are all playing minutes on a nightly basis. Russell might make the All-Star team. I don't know, man. I don't know if he's going to make the All-Star team.

You don't think so? I mean, I know the Eastern Conference is pretty weak, but I still don't think he's going to make the All-Star team now. Maybe not. I mean, he's got a chance just because of the conference. I mean, you look up and down. Obviously, listen, you're penciling in. I'm sure Ben Simmons, Jimmy Butler will inevitably both be there. You think Lowry makes it?

Maybe? Maybe. Maybe? Maybe. How are we still choosing players out of conferences? Right? I mean, come on. There's going to be some good players in the West that aren't going to make it just

because of the silly rules. I got you. Well, listen, the point I'm making, whether or not he makes an all-star team or not. I know. I'm just bothered by the fact that someone's going to make an all-star game just because they're in the Eastern Conference. There's going to be at least one guy just because they're in the East. I think that's true. For a game, that's for the fans, and that should have the best players and the funest players in the game, someone's going to make it just because they're in

the East. Well, I don't think that that necessarily applies to Russell, because every time I watch him, he has been fun to watch this year. Yeah, oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Russell's a fun player. And that team is better than what we thought they would be, don't you think? I mean, I think I thought they'd be like around 500. What are they now? They're right under 500. Yeah. I mean, I think in the east they were a borderline playoff team and they're about where they are.

I think, you know, then in a couple weeks ago, maybe, I don't know, time goes by so quickly. Maybe it was a couple months ago. But I think a lot of these teams, Chris, are pretty much where we expect it, except for a handful of them. Yeah, they get Leverd back. They could be a fun playoff team. Oh, yeah. I kind of wish they would make it. I kind of wish they would make it just because it's the young team that will probably take their lumps in the playoffs, but they're dangerous.

Yeah, I think they are going to make the playoffs, especially, I mean, hopefully Lavert comes back for them before the postseason. And, you know, look at their roster, Rodion's Kouruch, Jonathan Charks, wrote a great article last week about him on the ringer. He's been great. Second round pick, 40th pick in the draft, only 20 years old, 6'9, 610 forward, who's versatile, who can shoot, who can make plays off. the dribble. They have a lot of nice talent on that Nets team and a coach in Kenny Ackinson that the players believe in. And they got cap space coming up this summer with their own draft picks. Finally, now that that Celtics Nets trade is over and done with, they're in an interesting spot, man. They're an appealing team to me moving forward. All right. Let me ask you

about a couple other things that took place last night. One of which was the Sacramento Kings who kept on trucking along, they end up beating the Portland Trailblazers last night. They are now 23 and 21, two games over 500, and there was the story that came out from Sam Amick about Vlad A. DeVoc wanting to put the vote of confidence in Dave Yeager and his staff and to extend these guys and to commit to the coaching staff

that has done things. And I know some people were saying, well, good, they have overachie. much more than people expect them. Those guys have done a good job. I know a very large portion of that staff, obviously because they were all in Memphis. There was another part that I thought,

as I saw that story come out, which was Dave Yeager has coveted that Timberwolves job forever. He almost publicly hit it at it. Listen, how about this? I don't know if people remember this. He was a winning coach with the Grizzlies. And after the management team got flipped over, that summer, he went and interviewed for the Minnesota Timberwell's job, while currently the coach of the Grizzlies. I mean, he wanted that job.

And the Grizzlies weirdly said at the time, that's the only job we would allow him to interview for because basically it's his dream job. And we wouldn't want to have a coach that doesn't want to be here and would rather be somewhere else. It was all strange when it happened. But obviously, I can't get that out of my head. And I wondered if Vladi Divac, I wonder if this life is leverage and if that Sacramento staff got re-upped, though it looked extremely dicey for them just three weeks ago because that Minnesota job came open. And Minnesota, I would think, would look right towards a guy that, you know, covets the job and wants to come home. For sure. I had reported before that the Timberwolves are going to ride out the season with Ryan Saunders.

See how that goes? He might be their coach of the future, depending on how the next couple months go with him. But if things don't go so well, Dave Yeager should absolutely be near the top of that list for them. Yeah. And they have certainly exceeded all expectation and have kept on rolling. The team that has gotten rolling has been the Jazz, led by Donovan Mitchell, who won Western Conference Player of the week. And then you have a game like last night where Rudy Gobert is. the most dominant force going.

I mean, he's 18 points, 25 rebounds last night. 18 and 25. Yeah, for Gobert last night. So at the very beginning of the season, especially coming off of last season, we thought that the Jazz were for sure going to be a home court advantage team. Who knows where they will end up at the end,

but at least it's looking more like the team that we thought that it was going to be. And certainly Mitchell, who has had a little bit of a second year struggle, he's gotten cracking over the course of the last week. He's killing, man. He's been absolutely, I was saying, this month averaging 27 points a game,

high efficiency, shooting the lights out, and it's aligned with Ricky Rubio being out for Utah. So Mitchell has played a lot more point card this month more so than he did prior to Rubio's absence. And that has helped him, I think, putting the ball in his hands. it could also just be a hot streak, right? A little bit of regression to the mean

where he started out with that slump and now he's returning to the same efficiency numbers that he did last season. That's why it's hard to read in too much to what's happening early in the season. But nonetheless, just these past couple of weeks, Mitchell's right back on track to looking like and resembling

that potential superstar player that we saw all of last season into the playoffs. Still has some work to do as a scorer, still has his inefficient nights. But that dude's dynamite. Another thing that took place last night was the Tony Parker emotional return to San Antonio, where they gave him the roar that he deserved last night. It's still strange that he's not in a San Antonio uniform,

but I found it very interesting, Kevin, that this was in complete contrast to what took place with the Kauai game, right? They were out for blood in that game, and then they ran all over the Raptors. And then last night, you've got the video tribute and the homecoming for Tony Parker, and they take a 15-point loss to the Hornets. I don't know. Maybe they were all still in their feelings when the game was going on. Yeah.

And Kimball Walker, he's somebody who, unlike Donovan Mitchell, has slumped as of late after his just ferocious start early in the season. in this past month or so, his numbers have really returned to Earth, except for the last two games against Sacramento and then last time against San Antonio, scored 33 points last night on zero free throws, which will make you happy, Chris. Zero free throws, 32 points, wow. What a player.

Speaking of free throws, only 18 for James Harden last night. Oh, only 18, yeah, yeah. You know how many points he scored without the free throws? 40. He had 57 last, I mean, listen, as I have said many times, he is totally unstoppable. I have never taken away from his amazing talent. I've also told you, as someone who, listen, and just so I can explain to everybody,

the 2014 San Antonio Spurs is the most beautiful basketball I've ever watched in my life. They were the source of what I feel like is one of the best basketball articles ever written. And it's, anybody can look this up. Just type in Jackie McMullen's summertime. And it's about the 2014 spurs. It's about losing to Ray Allen and that dagger and being so close to the title. And then their mission the next season and how they took training camp, where they took it, and what they installed to be able to become this absolute juggernaut that destroyed

LeBron and Wade and Bosch in that second final. And so as someone who loves that style of basketball and the ball popping around and teammates making everybody better, I just don't enjoy watching one player pound the ball into the ground for 20 seconds and then make a step back three or get fouled or go to the basket. I mean, I like basketball because it is the greatest of team sports, in my opinion, and can look like a symphony at times. And I just don't, I don't like isolation one-on-one basketball. But I do not deny it is best for them. And they have had amazing success doing it. And he is, he is one of the greatest offensive talents I've ever seen in my life.

He is totally and completely unstoppable right now. So let me get that out of the way. That being said, we do need to talk about them. They had an easy go with the Grizzlies last night. Yeah. The Capella injury is monstrous for them. while it was not the Grizzlies, as I said, they didn't make it hard on them. They could be without Gordon, Paul, and Capella and still beat the Grizzlies last night.

What do you think happens over the course of the next four to six weeks, though, when they are inevitably without Capella with this broken thumb? Well, I mean, I think we saw hints of it last night, and we've seen hints of it over the last couple seasons. When Capella's off the floor, typically James Harden tallies more points, and fewer assists. He shoots more because there's not a lob target, just rumbling down the lane, which Clint Capella is.

He's fantastic. Capella's gotten better at passing out of the short roll as well, never mind his finishing at the rim. So there's even more of a demand on James Hardin to score like it was last night with the amount of shots that he took, the amount of free throws that he took. There's just nothing else for them without Chris Paul, without Eric Gordon, and now without Clint Capella, for that matter.

What I'm interested in seeing is how this develops for them on the defensive end of the floor because one of their biggest issues earlier in the season, Chris, was how teams would force a switch and bring Capella away from the perimeter. And they were just offensive rebounding relentlessly against Houston's smaller wings and forwards. Capella wasn't there for rim protection. So teams were getting to the rim more easily. And now, Capella is just not there. And Houston doesn't have a lot of depth.

You're relying on guys like Marquise Chris even for a short stint. last night's game until he was pulled. You're relying more on PJ Tucker. There's a greater demand on him. You're relying on guys like Isaiah Hartenstein, relying on Gary Clark, relying more on James Ennis. How does this over the course of time

hurt Houston on defense when nays your starting center? That's where I think Houston against better teams and more potent offensive teams are going to get exposed. Hardin's still going to get buckets no matter who's on the floor. And that's going to cause fatigue for him, but it's their defense.

that I would be especially concerned about without Clint's Capella. Yeah, and this was on a second night of a back-to-back after you just knew he was going to explode after the headlines everywhere from the prior day were the rockets blow it and he goes one for 17 from three. I mean, you just knew the next game it was going to be man on fire and in fact it was. No doubt. And like the other side of it is obviously like you mentioned how aesthetically, like you just don't like the style of basketball, right?

And I do. I mean, I like watching James Hardin's style. But the one thing that I've written about in the past and context with Russell Westbrook, I think I had a 2016 or 2017 article when Russell Westbrook was having that triple double season. And you look historically at players that have posted a usage percentage over 35. And right now, Hardin is at 39.9. And it's way higher than that over this past month. those teams typically don't go far in the playoffs because you can't you can't play winning basketball in the playoffs relying solely on one player just doesn't work whether it's the ai sixers in 2000 or cobi Bryant or even you know michael jordan's on that list even like you need other players so right now the rockets are getting what they need from james hard in order to stay afloat but this isn't going to work for them in the playoffs and it might not even get them a higher seed like they really really

really, really need Chris Paul to get back, which might not happen for another two, three weeks I've heard. Yeah. And to your point, I feel like Westbrook got killed a lot more for being the one-man show on Oklahoma City. And maybe it was a function of being a little less, you know, I mean, obviously it was a little less efficient. Not a little, way less efficient. And that was the difference, in my opinion. I mean, right now, Hardin is posting a true shooting percentage of 62. that Westbrook season was 55.4, which is not good. Hardin is not only a high volume guy, but he's a high efficiency player. If you look at all the players that I just mentioned that have posted a usage over 35, Hardin's number one and number two in efficiency with his season last year and then this year. He's number one and number two of everybody else and

nobody else is even close. Bernard King, the next closest guy, was 58.5. Dwayne Wade, 57.4. Tracy to Grady, 56.4, that's for true shooting percentage. Harden. He's on another level. Well, and what skews that is, and I don't want to say skews is a negative term. What skews it is Westbrook's not a good free throw shooter and Harden is. Well, Westbrook was that season. He shot 84. Yeah, Westbrook was at 84.5% from the free show line that triple double season. It's the three-point shooting, really, and the frequency of free throws. This is what I'm saying. I listened to House and Simmons last week, and they were talking about they were obviously mocking the triple double season of Russell Westbrook.

And Bill said in passing, he was like, what's more impressive to me is the 27, 7, and 7. They're almost to be called the LeBron. And I was thinking to myself like, Westbrook averaged over that by a wide margin. I was about to say the same thing. Like what? He did have a 27, 7 and 7. He averaged 30, 11, and 10. Like, it's more impressive to average less.

I don't, I'm not pretty sure. To me, it's the efficiency. that's what you have to look at in my opinion. The efficiency of matters more than anything else. Here's how you know that maybe it wouldn't have all worked together in Oklahoma City like everybody thinks it was. Because you see, right, you see Durant in Golden State. You see Hardin in Houston and you see Westbrook in Oklahoma City. And it's like, can you imagine these guys all functioning as, you know, a team and everybody getting theirs at the same time.

We were talking about the whole you can't just necessarily. assemble a bunch of talent. Maybe it would have all worked and they could have all fallen into their roles. But it's funny now to watch and they're like the highest usage guys ever, at least two of them. It's still hard to believe that those three guys

played on the same team at one point. Insanity. It's so, like that's going to be a fascinating story when all these guys' careers are over. Like the big story about those guys playing together and then going their own ways in the past that they ended up taking. And Katie, you know, these guys' stories aren't complete either.

Westbrook turned 30 this year. And I think Katie did as well. Harden is, I think, 28 or 29 years old. These guys aren't done yet. A lot of time left for them to still continue writing their stories. All right. On the flip side of that was a bludgeoning taken by the Grizzlies. And then you and I fought a little bit on Twitter about the whole blow it up.

There are teams that are either going to bolster themselves or decide to go the opposite direction and just lose a lot of games the rest of the year. And we will talk about the trade rumors and those particular teams right after these words. Today's Ringer MBA show brought to you by Kaptara. It's 2019. Are you still doing things the old way at work? Start off the year right by replacing the software that causes you angst and agony every day. And find software that fits your business's needs using Kaptara.com. Kaptara is the leader. free online resource to help you find the best software solution for your business. With over 700,000 reviews of products from real software users, it has everything you need to make an informed

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Plus, it's light, super fast, and has a great battery life. Brian and Michael are proving you can tackle all your passions with the power and speed of the new Surface Pro 6. All right, Kevin. So on the other side of James Hardin's 57 points were the Grizzlies, who I follow, who lost another game and things have gone exceedingly horrible for them. They are now five games under 500 after starting the season,

12 and 5 and like gangbusters. They've also had a million guys get hurt Dylan Brooks out for the season. Kyle Anderson got hurt. Chandler Parsons is in Los Angeles. You had a botched trade. It's just all gone horribly wrong. But you brought up the idea of getting rid of guys. Mark Stein.

Mark Stein did. Yes. Jack Lowe and Mark Stein did. I just was like, too late. Yeah, right. The idea about moving Mark Gasol rather than have him opt in in the offseason or possibly losing him for nothing. I just don't think you can get anything for

Mark Gassau. I think you could get something like great for Mike Conley. You couldn't for Mark Gassal. And so what's the point? Like, are you just doing it to do it? I'm right there with you, Chris. We're on the same exact page. That's why I suggest it.

Yeah, you're not going to get anything for Mark Gasol. He turns 34 years old. Okay. Later this month, he had major foot surgery a couple years ago. And granted he got off to a fast start this season. He's not been that good at all, maybe the past month or a half or so. What are you going to get?

He turned his ankle and has not been the same sense and he plays 38 minutes a night. I mean, it's ridiculous. I don't want to get it. And also, never mind the difficulty in finding a trade that works for him. He makes $24.1 million this season. So it's hard to find a team that can take on that salary that would give up the necessary salaries in order to make it work. It's just really hard to find a deal Well, and the other thing is conveying a Celtics pick, which is anything outside of the top eight, at best, you won so many games early, you'd probably have like the sixth worst record.

I mean, at best, you know what I mean? Yeah, six. Right now, just for context, they are 19 and 24. Washington is in that sixth spot at 18 and 26. So Memphis is separated by a game and a half. You're not catching Atlanta at five. No, you're super.

We're playing with fire at that point because then what? You know what I mean? Like it's almost like too late to just lose all the time so that you can get a high draft back because you're not going to. This draft stinks too. Yeah, right. So it's certainly not worth it. But a lot of teams have these choices to make.

And I want to ask you about Nikola Vucevich, right? Because he is having the contract year of all contract years will probably make the All-Star team. And I was reading an article on, unbelievably, theringer.com. DJ Foster, yeah, DJ Foster wrote an article recently about Vucevic being a trade deadline difference maker. And one of the quotes that he had in there was that Vucevic obviously is still a little bit in the way of Mo Bamba and maybe more front court minutes for Jonathan Isaac.

And that the magic are just a half a game back. from eighth place in the Eastern Conference, but they would be better off long term if they tank and land a top pick rather than somehow stumbling into a first round sweep. Now, obviously, philosophically, I disagree with this. And also, I've said this on, I think, corner three and a couple of times,

from what I've heard is Vucevich right now with Orlando, they still want to make the playoffs. They enter the season wanting to make the playoffs, and I'm not sure anything has changed. So yes, you might be able to give Bamba more minutes, but I think the magic are perfectly happy easing Bamba into things instead of just force feeding him minutes and giving him too much opportunity, putting too much on his plate, just easing him in. He's only 20 years old. And with Jonathan Isaac, he's lost weight this year already from what he entered the year with. I'm not sure how much you can really put him in the front court more so than you already do. Only plays 25 minutes per game. I don't know if he can. survive playing 35 minutes if that's what you're deeming for. Here's the big question. Do you keep him?

Instead of trading him now, you mean? It's the perfect trade candidate. 28, prime of his career, contract year, 13 million. So it's not a big deal, right? If you're Orlando, do you move him for assets? Because you do have young players that you can develop behind him. Or do you say, you know what? now that we've got this new coach,

look at how well this guy is playing. We don't have a bunch of guys that we have money super committed to. Maybe we should keep him. Yeah. What do you think? I feel exactly the same, especially if the money's right this summer. I mean,

honestly, I think the Nicola Vucevich trade stuff has been a little bit overblown all season long because Orlando wants to make the playoffs. And not only that, what are you tanking for? This year is not the year to tank. It's not a good draft.

Yeah, you're tanking for Zion, but it's the same thing you just said with Memphis. The best odds you'll get is that six spot, right? Right now Orlando is one and a half games back from that, just like Memphis's. And that would give you a 9% chance of the number one pick. So 9% at Zion or a 37.2% chance at a top four pick. And you want to be in one of those top two spots, unless there's another guy that you really, really are high on. but people I've talked to around the league for the most part, man.

People don't like this draft. It's not a good draft. It's just not. You have Zion Williamson who's a really, really great prospect, and RJ who's a really good one. But beyond that, John Morantz, he wouldn't be a top three or four pick

in any of the past two drafts. Cam Reddish still has potential, but he's falling off. Other than that, man. There's not a lot. There's not a lot. So if you're Orlando, if the deal's right,

if you're getting something that helps you in the future, great, then you do the deal. But if you're moving Vucevic's just a tank, it doesn't make any sense to me. It's interesting to me that you say that because you have so many of these teams that are like on the cusp in both conferences, right?

They're not that far off. One, eight and two stretch, and everything changes. For a majority of these teams, within two weeks' time, everything changes. if you can win eight out of ten games. Now, for some of those teams, it's super far-fetched that that could happen.

But, you know, on these whole teams that are in the middle, we know they're not going to win a title. We know they're probably not going to be in an Eastern or Western Conference finals. They're going to, quote, make the playoffs and then have a middle of the road pick that maybe that forms the opinions of a majority of these teams. and so they become buyers or maybe tweakers, as it were, right? You try to tweak your roster to improve yourself a little bit and take a shot at making the playoffs because there's no glory in becoming very bad and getting a very high pick this year. Well, and you might not get a very high pick. That may dry up the seller's market. Yeah.

What you may have is these awesome teams sitting around going, you know, know what, we need to tweak. Maybe the Celtics make a big deal and the Lakers make a big deal because they sit there and they go, listen, we're going to have a crack at the title. Now we got to do some tweaking. And so that's actually, it's not the teams that are going to lose excessively that are making the big deals, but rather the awesome teams that are making the big deals this year. You know? Yeah, I mean, it's a buyer's market right now with not a lot of sellers. You know, We only have those bottom five teams that are outright. I'm going to have a chance at the top pick with Cleveland, Chicago, New York, Phoenix, and Atlanta.

Other than that, even Washington and with the sixth worst record, even then with Bradley Bale, just on the absolute, just ferocious tear that he's on, even Washington, I think, still has hopes of pushing into the playoffs. Yeah, well, I mean, for better and for worse. Denver, outside of Denver and Golden State, and maybe Oklahoma City, there's probably no fan base that doesn't think we need to make a deal. Seriously. Yeah. Like all of them think that they need to make. I mean, Philly thinks they need to make a deal. And Boston, their fans think they need to make a deal.

You have Spike Eskin from the Rights to Ricky Sanchez podcast writing an article yesterday about how the Sixers should trade Jimmy Butler, which, you know, talk to some people. They won't necessarily disagree with that. And Spike made a pretty strong case in that article. I think the case was strong because it was five years, $190 million to keep him. It's going to be the same conversation with Charlotte and Kemba Walker, which I think based off everybody I've talked to, everybody around the league thinks Charlotte will keep Kemba Walker. Michael Jordan loves Kemper Walker.

The Charlotte Hornets are one of those teams that are happy just making the playoffs and going to the second round and flaming out. They're just happy doing that. Well, and holy moly, if that kid makes all NBA, you got a real decision to me. Exactly. And that's why with Kemba, I would doubt there would be a trade.

However, he would be a guy that if I'm, I don't know, if you're a team that's on the bubble and you need to make a big move, Kemba Walker's a guy to at least try to make a call for. I wouldn't want to give him that money, though,

and I don't think you would either, Chris. I mean, yeah, we're talking over a $200 million contract, right? I know the cap's going up, but still he makes an all-NBA team and that contract just becomes radically different. We talked about Orlando and their possibility.

Another team that would be an 8 and 2 stretch from changing everything is the Dallas Mavericks, who are 20 and 23 as of right now. They've lost their last two games, but as it stands, they are four games out of that 8 seed. They are also just a few games out, or their one game from being the 13 seed. as of right now. As first reported by my own Kevin Obama, Dennis Smith Jr. could be on the move and that the Mavericks would be exploring deals for Kim. That report advanced by Adrian Orginowski and ESPN talking about the Phoenix Sons and also the Orlando Magic as possible destinations. So first things first. Why is Dennis Smith Jr? I get Luca and

and what's happened with Luca and Luca having the ball? Why do you think that they are interested in moving off a guy that, less than a year ago, they took with a top 10 pick, or a year ago, they took with a top 10 pick? And which of those two probable or possible destinations do you think Smith would be a better fit? Yeah, I think Orlando's a better fit, Chris. But I have heard last night I had heard that it won't be Orlando. We'll see if that changes.

But I had a source telling me that it's not going to be Orlando for Dennis. Smith. And then last night, John Gambardo from Arizona Sports 987 in Phoenix, who, you know, always gets a lot of sun scoops, said the sons have no interest in Dennis Smith. I'm not sure about no interest. They have had conversations, but it's also possible that there's just nothing there. Mitch Lawrence reported that the Pistons have had conversations with Dennis Smith. So that's something to monitor as well. If I'm Dallas, personally, I would call about Kemba Walker just to see it's there. I don't think anything would happen, but it's worth taking a look with the Charlotte Hornets. You know what? He played at NC State, so at least it'd be intensely familiar with.

I think if, you know, if it's from Charlotte's perspective, if there's any deal that you can make, taking a PR hit, which would undoubtedly come if you're trading Kemba weeks before the All-Star game is in Charlotte, getting Dennis Smith back is about one of the only players that would make it worth it, especially if you're dumping Nick Batum in the deal as well. That's about the only type of deal that I think they could make without fans just raging in Charlotte. Okay, why do they want to get rid of Dennis Smith? I think it's really about maximizing the asset. Right now, he's a 21-year-old point guard, Chris, that like you said, just in 2017 was drafted

ninth in the draft. Who, you know, I'm not a big fan of his game, but he's at least flashed potential, especially as a high pick and roll scorer. I think it's about maximizing him instead of his value further depreciating as Luca just blossoms into a star and not to mention Luca

but Jaylon Brunson, their young rookie point card they drafted from Villanova in the second round, he's been steadily getting better over the course of the season as well. So even though Berrea got hurt, Luca just is demanding more of the ball because he's so damn good. And then Brunson

I think at the second round pick is worthy of getting opportunity coming off the bench as well. So it's about exchanging an asset and getting something else back that helps you. Yeah, I mean, the story goes that Carlisle and him butted heads, which is unsurprising that, I mean, Carlisle and point guards, right,

outside of like a 40-year-old Jason kid, we've heard that about literally every point guard that they've had. Especially a guy like Dennis Smith who, let's just be real. In college, he's not the best decision maker. And that has manifested in the NBA, too. He's not Carlisle's type.

Right. He'd swipe left on Tinder, on NBA Tinder. The most important about that is the whole maxing out Luca. Donchich and Smith average 100.9 points per 100 possessions this season. Donchich and Brunson average a tick under 107 points while Donchich and Berea were at 113 per 100 possessions. So it's pretty obvious just in terms of what they've got on that roster this year. The back court of Donchich and Smith has been intensely less effective than Donchich and Brunson or Donchich and Berea, who obviously is out now with the Achilles thing. So there's sometimes where it can just be addition by subtraction, the fact that you're getting more minutes of Donchich with a different pairing.

because though it is only 687 minutes, I mean, it's come to the worst of the results of the back court pairings with Luca. So it doesn't work that well. Yeah, I don't love the fit with Dennis Smith. And you're just playing thought experiment here, Chris. I don't think a Kemba thing would happen. But if it were, I'm curious,

how would you feel about that fit with Luca Donchich and Kemba Walker or a player like that? personally, I like that fit. I don't. I don't because I think to maximize Luca is to have the ball in his hands. And I do not believe that you're going to maximize.

So you want him to play like James Harden then? No, I just don't think you're going to maximize Kemba unless the ball is in his hands. So. I don't know. I think both those guys are a really good off ball. Oh, Kemba's not a make everybody better guy. You know that.

Donchich is. Well, that's what I'm saying. I think with Kemba, yes, he wouldn't have the ball on his hands as much as he doesn't show him. And that's kind of the point. Then you can maximize him as an off ball shooter as a cutter. With Luca Donchich as well, you can use him as a screener. You can use him as a cutter. Like there's so many ways to get creative with both those guys. Like Luca Donchich, he, Luca, Luca, is going to be a superstar, but you need more than one star to win a championship. I get, but the contract that Kemba's going to get is going to be extraordinary.

I know. I know. That's your answer? That's the star you want next to Luca is spending $40 million on Kemba? No way. Yeah, I know. And that's ultimately the issue here. It's the money, right? If you're paying Kemba Walker that much money, I don't know. But I will say this, though, Chris, looking at their books this off season, if they were

to pay Kemba, they could still create a lot of money, either this summer or the following summer, if they wanted to, to add another guy. Depending on what the deal looks like, if they're getting a salary back and whatever else, it's really hard to say. and we're just speaking hypothetically here. But theoretically, they could have, you know, Luka makes you a lot. Luca certainly makes you a lot more attractive

than anything they've had in a long, long time. Simply because, like, and I'm talking a tear up from Harrison Barnes and DeAndre Jordan and West Matthews. Like, those are the level of free agents that they've gotten over the course of the last several years. I do think Luca is a severe enough talent that people would want to go and be a part of that.

They also have a culture of winning in Dallas. They do. They've had the one down year, but I mean, they have a culture of winning at that organization, which I do think is incredibly helpful in terms of players usually join winning teams. What they do not do in free agency is join losing teams. Speaking of two winning teams tonight, you are going to see the teams with the two best records in the Western Conference. we will make that our NBA watch of the night, and I will keep my eyes peeled for one, Kevin O'Connor on Media Row,

because you are going to be at Denver versus Golden State, and this is going to be available on League Pass, so anybody can flip on League Pass and not only see the teams with the two best records in the Western Conference, but also possibly get a glimpse of Kevin O'Connor. And remember, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com, Amazon, or your local cable or satellite provider. You are recording with me today in Denver, Colorado. As I mentioned, you're going to be in attendance of this NBA Watch of the Night game that we just mentioned.

I am very excited to watch this. Denver has been a big surprise this year. And so now we get to see them against Golden State. And weirdly, this could actually decide something interesting, which is who represents the Western Conference in the All-Star game from a coaching standpoint. Is it Steve Kerr and his staff that will have the best record in the Western Conference? Or is it the Denver Nuggets, Mike Malone, and his staff, that would be representing the Western Conference in the All-Star game.

It might actually come down to this game. It absolutely could. And for Michael Malone and his coaching staff in Denver, it's an opportunity to mingle with some All-Stars, do some recruiting, make some connections for down the line when guys become available in trades or free agency. So it matters in that sense for Denver to get an opportunity to have their coaching staff be at the All-Star game.

But even besides that, Chris, like, this is going to be a heck of a game. game too. One and two in the Western Conference with the way Denver's playing. Granted, they are in the middle of a stretch with, I think, five games and seven nights. So there's a little bit of fatigue playing a role for them. But I'm excited to see Nicole Yokic, who had a really strong game against Golden State earlier this season when Denver beat Gold State their first time around. Yokic just continues to be on a tear, man. He is having a MVP caliber season in a year loaded with MVP's candidates.

let me see here. I want to pull up what Vegas has got on this. Who do you think is favored? It's got to be Golden State, right? Golden State by one. Oh. Oh, wow. Almost a So we're like right at, you know what I mean? And a couple of the places have it as a pickum. 75% of the bet so far on Golden State. That's dangerous. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So that means that means you should probably take Denver in this game, honestly. 75% for Golden State. Wow. Yeah, yeah. 75% of the bets so far, according to Sports Insight. for what it's worth. But anyway, yeah. One of the reasons why that line is probably so close

is the Nuggets are 18 and 3 at home this season. They've been outstanding at their home court. Oh, for sure. Wow. Well, you are going to see a great one, and we will certainly keep our eyes peeled for you in the crowd. Maybe I can catch a glimpse of the great Kevin O'Connor at the game. Don't look for me.

Are you right? I suppose you're there because you're going to be writing about the Nuggets. Is that true? Yeah. Yep. Nice. All right. Enjoy Denver, Kevin.

Enjoy the game tonight, and I will talk to you next week. Looking forward to it, Chris. Have it going. Thanks to everybody for listening to another edition of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.