The Ringer NBA Show - The Celtics Way Bests Nembsanity | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 26, 2024

Justin and Wos recap the Celtics comeback win against the Pacers to take a 3-0 lead. They talk about Jayson Tatum’s big game, the valiant effort from the Pacers, and if there’s anything left the want to see from the Celtics this series (2:39). Then they talk about the Mavericks being up 2-0 on the Timberwolves and who in Minnesota is under the most pressure (33:29). Buy tickets to our live show in Los Angeles here! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Social: Eduardo Ocampo Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. And welcome to Group Chat. I am Justin Ferrier and joining me on this Saturday night, Big Waz, no Rob Mahoney, which I find a little curious, Was. He said it was flight delays, but I don't know. I think he might be ducking that smoke again. Yeah, Rob refuses to agree to terms to our bet payout about the Celtics outlasting the Nuggets in this year's end.

NBA playoffs. And of course, mysteriously, he ducks this pod. But I'm sure he'll be back on Wednesday with plenty of excuses. So you guys can look forward to that. But as we do now every pod, we have to update the coward tracker, which here we go. We got a big two up there just for the listeners at home. There's also art of a pacer logo with a smiley face and he is screaming a tone. So there you go.

Well, Rob isn't here tonight, but you can catch him at our live show on June 18th at the L. Ray Theater, part of the ringer residency. Get your tickets at the ringer.com slash events. We might have some special guests showing up there, some ringer faith. Sir. Some of your faves, they'll be joining in. So get those tickets now. Was, are you excited to be back on stage? You thrive on stage.

I'm super excited because. The listeners know we cut up up here between me, you, Zay, Rob, Ben. You know, we like to cut up here. But on a live setting with the audience involved, it's just a whole different energy. And just a lot more fun, honestly, to be, you know, be on stage and be in community with the people who support our show and our work. So I'm super excited about what we could do at the L. Ray, man. All right. Let's get to this game three in Indy.

I thought this was going to be where they struck back. I have a big old conversation about this team with Al Halliburton. But I think this is in the Celtics way, in the most Celtics way possible, this was probably their most dominant late performance of these playoffs and the most Celtics performance, I think thus far. Yeah, to be down most of this game in the 13, 14 range to this version of the Indiana Pacers, this Hoosiers version of the Pacers, like, was just laughable. And, like, folks got to understand, too.

And this is what I was trying to get at on in my feelings yesterday when I was like, look, we need to relax the panic meter here on the Celtics every time they don't play, like, world-beating juggernauts. Like, these guys are human beings. They see who's out there. It's the Pacers. It's hard to get, like, super-wiled up. Like, yes, we all understand that it's the Eastern.

Eastern Conference Finals, and, you know, that should be enough that they should give their best effort, but they know that they are much better than their opponent. And sometimes they play to that level. And I think we got a lot of that today, particularly on defense, where Andrew Nemhardt is basically getting his career high. I wonder if this dude ever scored 32 points in high school, okay? How ridiculous it was that he was just getting to every single spot that he felt like today. I just think the intensity just wasn't there.

And when they got to it, they ratcheted up their defense and they mounted an incredible comeback. And now they're in a driver's seat one game away from returning to the NBA finals for the second time in three years. I like this late playoffs pivot for you of being the Celtics voice of reason as even the apologists and the optimists like myself are like wringing our hands as they pretty much blow away the competition in the playoffs. But I mean, you see why so many people are doing that when they play, what, three quarters of this game, kind of trying to just keep pace with a Halliburton, Les Pacers team. Nemhart went off. I also felt like the Pacers, we could talk about this later, just felt very methodical in seacominy in a way that played to their strength. But I thought this was an incredible game for not only Jason Tatum, but Jalen Brown and the combination of the two together. Tatum 36, 10, and 8, Brown only with 24,

only with 24. But the way that they complimented each other was, where it seemed like Tatum was just doing that thing that he typically does, which is like steadily making the right play. And I think that eight assists were a credit to that. But then when they needed to really take the game by the throat, Tatum went and got it.

And so just if they had more help in this game, I wonder if they'd just blow away the Pacers. The rest of the roster didn't come through. But the two of them together, I thought were awesome. I love Tatum's floor, Tater. I loved Tatum's floor game today. He had eight assists, which, you know, newsflash, your teammates have to make shots in order for assist to count.

I thought that was a nice development, particularly Al Horford, just, you know, just splashing from three point land the entire game. But also, I loved his shot diet. I loved how he got to his shots, not just the shots that he'd be. was taking, you know, I think it's justifiable to get up 10, 11, 3-pointers if you're Jason Tatum. It's fine, but he got them within the rhythm and the flow. I thought when he felt like he had a size and matchup advantage, he was methodical in getting his shots even in the mid-range where I'm like, yo, he's a mid-range killer.

He can make those shots. I thought he was aggressive in transition, which is what I would love to see more from him and Brown. Like, these guys are mega athletes. I would love to see them do more transition work, but he was great in that regard to. And he just, he played with a beautiful pace and he played like a guy who just felt supremely confident in everything Indy tried to do to bother him because tonight they couldn't bother him. I do think, though, that his success from three point definitely unlocks the full totality of his game and the way that we're used to seeing maybe in past postseason.

And that's probably the one sticking point, I think regardless of what side of the divide you were on Tatum at this point, whether you're an extreme optimist or kind of more of a tentative optimist because you really couldn't ding him too much, I think. But the fact that the three ball was going, you could just see how it just unlocks everything else that he does to the point where the defense has to account for that. Then he plays off the drive. He's just such a programmatic style of player. And so you see everything playing off of that. But you're right. That is dime to Horford in the corner as they were kind of charging back there toward the end. Behind the back, while he was already pretty much at the rim on the money in flow,

so that Horford could hit that was incredible. And we have to give it up to Al Horford, who hit seven three-pointers in this game. And even when he was going for his six, I was like, oh, my God, I can't believe this guy's going to take this shot. He's been so bad his both season. But he was on today and they needed him. And these shots were hitting nothing but bottom. You would have thought Al Horford was Nas read or something out there. It was crazy.

He wishes. Zay's Horford tattoo is incoming, folks. Look, Al Horford, somebody, I'm not the biggest fan of Al Horford taking a bunch of threes, but some of these are wide open in the corner. He should be taking those shots. Like these shots were in the flow. I don't think it was like forced. One of the above the break threes, I felt like, man,

he pulled the trigger on that one pretty quick, but he splashed it anyway. It was dope that type of night for him. But yeah, that's kind of been their formula all season, right? Like we talked in the pre-show, you said this was like their process being validated. And it's like, yeah, like all the shots, all the threes, all the five-out stuff actually was to their benefit today. And I think it opened up a lot of stuff for people like Brown and Tatum having their big men,

you know, actually making shots today. And so, you know, like, look, Indy, like, this has got to be a sickening loss if you're the Pacers. Like, you had this. You were basically killing them the entire game and to cough this up at the end, the way that Indy did. I'm sure these guys are going to be sick about this for pretty much the rest of this series. But, look, I like that Boston actually clamp these dudes down in the fourth. Because to me, that's the actual Boston Weathervane. When they're getting stops and they don't have to constantly be playing in the half.

half court, they're better because they don't have a traditional maestro sort of, you know, pick a defensive part type of offense. So when they can like be less deliberate in their offensive approach, I think it's better. And getting stops playing defense up to their actual talent. It's how they get there. I watched that HBO documentary about the Patriots. And so I've been hearing so much about the Patriots way. I feel like this was very much like a Celtics way, Joe Missoula style of win.

The point where it might only indulge him on some of his, like, worst tendencies to the point where, like, they were down in the rebounding. And so we get the double big Al Horford, Xavier Tillman line up. And I was like, oh, God, Joe, this is not what we need to be doing. Like, oh, Shay Brissette finally gets into the game. Last game because Cornette is out, he plays him some, but clearly doesn't trust him. The bench was awful in this game. And I think that's, like, kind of a sneaky thing to keep an eye on as they go into the finals,

because Hauser seems virtually unplayable if he can't hit a shot. Pritchard was also bad. He airballed his shot today. That was crazy. It was brutal. And so Drew was sick coming into this game. Definitely played like it on defense for most of this game. White was all over the place on both ends of the floor.

And so like there really wasn't much there, but you didn't see them get rattled or really adjust too much to the point where they were over adjusting. And so they just kind of kept doing what they do. trusted that Horford would make those shots, trusted that Tateman Brown would do enough. And then ultimately toward the end there, we got to give it up to Drew with,

I saw Andrea Godala kind of taking credit for that one, being like I taught him everything he knows, where he stumbles on the play, gets himself back up, bodies Nemhart, and then is able to tip the ball away with his offhand. That was like one of the most impressive, like defensive plays I've seen in a while.

Yeah, Drew Hollidays playmaking on defense toward the end, basically sealed this thing up. Of course, he had that crucial N one that actually gave them the lead for good. That was a monster play. Not his best shooting game, whatever is Drew Holiday in the playoffs that's going to happen. But when he brings it on defense this way and like what he does is like he's imposing his will with physicality, man. Like he's making these guys feel him on every single possession. And I think that changes the general shade of Boston's defense, right?

Like, these guys, you know, they have long, lanky athletes and stuff, but they're not always hitting first, particularly on defense. But Drew Holiday does that, no matter who he's guarding. And it just changes the complexion of how they do. And I do want to give it up to the Pacers because they did play well. They played like a team whose season was on the line. They played like guys who don't want to go to Bahamas in a few days, right? And so they played with some pride.

They played with purpose. Like, I want to give it. up to them for that. But this is just, you know, it's a tough loss. They lost to a better team. They lost to the team that is obviously destined for the finals. Yeah, the Pacers did the same thing that they've been doing the series where they kind of dictated the terms of engagement right from the jump there. And without Halliburton there, maybe they weren't as fast playing off of misses and like getting up and down, but they were methodical, man. And they played with the purpose and they played with the physicality that really like, especially. Right? It seemed like this was

more of like a Siakum driven Toronto team than a Pacer's team. I mean, Nemhart is probably the outlier there. But like it seemed like they didn't really miss Halliburton that much. Is that fair to say? I mean, look, it's a one game sample, right? Like, we've seen this happen all the time. Like a team loses one of their prominent players. Everybody thinks they're completely dead in the water.

And they come out and, you know, they play above their heads. They could do this for one game. But like, over the course of a series, they just. Andrew Nemhart, look, had the game of his life. God bless him. He's just not that dynamic of a player. I think the Celtics will figure out how to stop Andrew Nemhard. That seems within their wheelhouse of things that they can accomplish in this series.

And so, you know, I'm not of the belief that they're better without Aliburton. They're just more dynamic with him on the floor with his playmaking and obviously the shooting, right? Like, he's turned himself into, like, basically, Reggie Miller 2.0, Richard Hamilton, type of movement kind of shooter. And so, look, again, I want to tip my cap out, cap to them for being this competitive in this game against a team that's just so much more talented than they are. But, you know, I'm not surprised by this. And to speak to, I think, people's general panic about Boston, I think when we have all of these

nights of Western Conference playoff matchup, where the things we were seeing in the Wolves Nugget series, the Mavericks OKC series, and now what we're seeing, the level of play that we're seeing expressed with Luca and Kyrie and all these guys on the Timberwolves, and then we compare it to what we're watching Indiana do. I think that's what people are really responding to.

But listen, man, these guys up 3-0. They're going to be in the finals. They've done their job. Yeah, I think a lot of the anxiety about the Celtics is just the history. Like, it's impossible to ignore everything that we've seen about this team. God, it's basically half a decade at this point where it's like they get to a point and they need to prove it.

And so, like, if anything, the bar is set because of how good they've been in the past. And they're just not the type of team that's going to be as viscerally satisfying as a Wolves win or even like what we saw last night with Luca. And so I get it to a certain extent. And they do wobble in ways that dominant, historically regular season, and dominant team typically doesn't, but they've just been mowing teams down. But you're right. I think we need to give credit to the Pacers here.

I don't think it's so much that they're better or worse without Halliburne. I think two things. One, the injury that Halliburton sustained to put him out of this one, same hamstring industry that kept them out earlier this year. I think that probably speaks to maybe we haven't seen Fullborn or Halliburton in a very long time. So how much can you really draw major conclusions when maybe he was gutting through things, not only during the postseason, but most of the regular season at this point.

And two, it's just like, I think things clicked into place for Nemhart particular, where he's had to play off of Halliburton in a way that maybe wasn't to his benefit, to his individual benefit, where it's like he's kind of been the defensive grinder after they made the buddy healed trade and kind of brought him as a mainstay of that first unit when Carlisle's like, listen, we're going to try to find balance on this team. We're going to be a little bit more defensive focused. Let's like get guys like Nemhard into the mix more. and he was a point guard in college and Gonzaga.

And so, like, playmaking was one of his strong suits. And so it just seemed like he played with more of a flow and an ease and probably a more natural, just, like, position in, like, what he does naturally to him. Now, will he do this again, this postseason or even in his career? I'm not sure. He had 21 points in the first half, which was a career playoff high. So at the half, he was already blowing away his previous expectations.

But, like, I don't know. I also think, like, he and Seacom and McConnell, they kind of have been the heart of this team in the posties. Maybe that's because Halliburton's been injured. But, like, they have been the grinders kind of booing what the success of the Pacers have had this far. Yeah, I would agree with all of those things. I just, I don't see how, you know, more T.J. McConnell in your diet somehow makes you a more formidable postseason foe. Like, it's hard for me to.

It's hard for me to accept that as a reality. But, you know, again, Nemhard, again, it's cool to see this because now the Pacers can be like, well, maybe we can play different kinds of ways, right? Like, maybe we can give teams different looks by taking Tyrese off the ball, letting Nemhard do a lot of the play, making, saving Tyrese in terms of, you know, physically saving him from having to exert himself so much. I think that hammy injury is an exertion industry, is, excuse me, injury is from him pushing himself to the actual limit in these playoffs, right?

And so, you know, maybe they have discovered something. Again, I don't want to jump off the freaking roof. It's one game of Nemhard looking like, you know, prime Chris Paul. But, like, I think maybe this is something just to spin it forward. The faces could be like, yo, maybe we can actually trust this guy with the rock in his hands, creating in big moments because of, you know, this opportunity that he's been thrust into. Yeah, I want to hit the pause button here. I'm not necessarily saying the team should go out and trade Tyre's Halliburton for De Manus Sabon, just like reverse history. Haliburton is the future

of this franchise. And he is, as far as he goes, the ceiling of this team. That was abundantly clear when they made the Seacom trade because they could have just kept rolling with the young guys. They consciously made a decision to be like, we're going to go for the now. and make the most of this. And so whatever happens from here on now is going to be Halliburton-centric. I think it just opens up some opportunities for them. Maybe Nemhart, maybe the best thing for him is honestly to come off the bench and run the bench unit. Or maybe like find some minutes where he is running the offense in a way that can spell Halliburton.

But like, or maybe you trade him. Maybe another team sees something in him and you trade him for a higher value to find something that fits what the Pacers want to do. but you said TJ, you don't believe in it. But this is every game now. Let me read you his line for tonight. 23 points. Nine rebounds, six assists, 10 for 17 from the floor, and one beautiful, beautiful made three-pooner. He made 18-3s, was this regular season.

He is now up to seven over three rounds of this postseason. I think this is this guy is just a gamer. Yeah, who are you going to believe me or you're lying eyes? No, it's crazy. Like, honestly, the first two rounds, every time he got into the game, he was a difference maker. And he was dictating the terms of play, which just blew me away that T.J. McConnell could dominate the complexion and the feel of a game, right? And I was like, you know what, Boston's a real defense. They've got a bunch of, you know, lanky, quick guys they could throw at T.J. McConnell.

They're going to swallow this dude up. And that just hasn't been. the case. Like, this guy getting up 17 shots in a game for the Pacers to go home or not, basically, you know, functionally, their season is on the line is amazing. And that he answered the bell and scored efficiently and was just getting by every single Boston defender. Like, I'm at a loss for words, especially at this point in his career, right?

Like, we've just never seen him do this at this level, obviously, like, in a conference finals. Like obviously this is the first time he's playing on this stage. Yeah, it's just wild for a one game sample. I still have to believe that Boston can be better against this back court. But maybe they won't have to be, honestly. Maybe they can just continue to be mediocre against T.J. McConnell and, you know, just advance. Anyway.

I just want to put this on record when five to 10 years from now, when we're still doing this podcast on some platform, that hasn't been invented yet. And T.J. McConnell is now running the front office as the new Larry Bird in Indiana, just holding court at St. Elmo's. Just to let you know, like, you heard her here first. Dude, the reason why you might be press in that, and I don't know if I shared that this on the pod, at the end-season tournament, I was sitting with Bill, and right next to me were two older gentlemen Pacer fans.

at the Pacer Bucks game, and these dudes were losing their minds every time T.J. did anything. Like, they were going nuts. Like, the love is real and felt for sure for T.J. McConnell. It's a cult out there. And that's exactly why you picked him at our live show. So you had insider intel.

Of course. That was going to swing the draft. I do my homework. I'm a real journalist. Your boots on the ground. That's right. Exactly. So let's go team by team here, though, over the course of however long this series goes, because we might not get a chance.

We're scheduled to record next Wednesday for what would be game five. I don't know if we'll get a chance to tap into this series again. So for this next game or however long the series goes, anything from the Celtics, like, you need to see before they advance to the finals and take that, like, big leap from what seems to be the JV side of the bracket to a pretty formidable opponent, whoever they get. Yeah, it's hard to. It's hard to feel like anything can be accomplished here that they can carry over to the next series. It's just going to be a different challenge

in terms of size, athleticism, skill that will be brought to bear from whichever team makes it out of that damn night fight that's happening on the Western Conference bracket. Like, I don't know, Miles Turtley, I don't know. See, I don't know how any of that translate. Translates to the rim protection that's being brought to bear, man.

These guys are pounding the boards just like incessantly on both, by both of those teams. There's no Luca, obviously there's no Luca comp here in terms of what Indiana is doing and how to guard him and deal with him. It's just, I don't know, like, is knee Smith, some kind of Derek Jones? type or you know jaden macdaniels defender no like i don't i just don't know what how they carry anything over from this series um when they inevitably get to the finals yeah my thing is just figuring out this backup center rotation for minutes or what you're doing there obviously chris

stops i think we're at the point where he we might see him again i think there was talk of him coming back as soon as game four if anything like in the fifth game might get his legs underneath them in a way that he might not have if he just has to reboot in the NBA finals or maybe he doesn't even show up in the finals yet. So we'll see about there. But like seeing Al play as well as he has, despite his age, despite the fact that he has been picked on a bunch, I think is encouraging if you have to downshift him back to a backup center role. And that just provides so many different options for them. It's not Tillman and Horford. It would be Horford and Chris Dobbs if you wanted to throw a double big lineup up there. I still, I've said, yeah, I think I think we'll see,

some double big lineups if Pristaps comes back in time. They're going to have to, man, because it's just a whole other level in terms of acts. Like, Lively and Gafford are not just huge. These guys have incredible motors. They do not stop. And so this is going to be a big challenge, man. They're going to need, they're going to need all of their guns. Yeah.

And then, like, if you could find something in the small ball line, I said this, God, for five pods in a row. this point, but just like, if it's not Berset, just like, let's find a small wall lineup and just play it for four minutes. Hauser being able to shoot would be nice to you. I do think we need to watch out for the bench. We'll see about that going forward. With the Pacers, though, let's start big picture before we talk about game four.

Has this playoffs changed anything about how you view the Pacers long term? Because I think there was some pushback where it's like, why aren't we talking about the Pacers enough? But on the other hand, they have kind of climbed in large part, of some of the injuries to their opponents. But on the other hand, you don't want to take too much away because, like, they are in the Eastern Conference Finals way ahead of schedule.

And so I'm, like, I'm constantly balancing, like, how much is too much credit versus not enough? And so, like, have these three games, have them without Halliburton, has Halliburton's postseason as far? Does that change anything about their long-term trajectory for you? I think to me they should be encouraged by this run. Obviously, you get to the Eastern Conference finals. There's no way before the balls went up this season

in the last fall that the pace was expected to be in the conference finals. That was not the expectation. So you surpassed expectation. But I think most importantly is that their style of play has been validated. It's not a gimmick. They do have a distinct style and it's hard to play against. They present problems for opponents in terms of their pace and their speed. And I think that's been validated, man.

Like in the postseason against some real true blue defenses, like legitimate, you know, opponents, like they played their style and it was effective. I think that's really encouraging. And so they can lean into how they play and feel like, yo, we're going in the right direction with the type of team that we've built

and doing this around Halley and doing it around his pace. And it's something we can win with and we can feel, you know, confident in that. And we can pursue ends that magnify that edge, right? Like, they can dive head first into it. And so that's what to me is the biggest takeaway from here.

I think their style is legit. And it's a problem for teams, and they should be happy about that. They're starting to find a balance too. Like, you could see this team utilizing Siakum and, like, making him a priority and, like, adapting him to what they already do in a way that seems a little bit more seamless than it did at times throughout the back end of the season. And obviously he was imported in the middle of the season. So it's going to take some time.

So having him in a full training camp. And also I would love to see the way that Halliburton's Siacom can develop a two-man game, like kind of in both ways. Like I would want to see Halliburton screening for Siacom while Siacom created. Like there's a lot of versatility in the two of them that I think they can unlock with the full training camp. Also getting Matherin back in there, your boys. Like they've been doing this all without him.

I think maybe even bringing Buddy healed back at a certain point or a shooter like him would also be a nice little release valve for the pacer. So they have options going forward. And so I do think like this is all encouraging and blue skies and they have a lot to be encouraged by. But having said that looking at the east, just in general, like if we're going into next season, you probably wouldn't say like they vaulted over the Celtics obviously. Like do you feel better about them than the Knicks, the Bucks, like the magic? like the magic, the cabs, the heat, the Sixers. Like, do they find themselves still in the same place before we go into the offseason?

I think if the box and nicks are right in terms of physical health, I think they're probably, you know, half a notch better than the Pacers, but at no point that I, like, that's a new reality to me. That's something I've learned about the Pacers this postseason, man.

Like, they're legitimate. The heat, God only knows what's happening with Jimmy and Pat Riley and the contract and all of that stuff. We'll see what the Sixers look like there because they're due for a major facelift or whatever it is we're calling what they're ultimately going to be next year. We don't know who the Sixers are going to be next year, right? And so because of that unknown, I'm more confident in what the Pacers will be able to bring the bear.

But yeah, I still would say that they're slightly, I would slightly lean Knicks and Bucks over them because of the like, you know, just the top in talent that the Bucks have. And then the Knicks just, you know, I just think they looked better when they had all of their guys. Like when OG was playing and, you know, like they had their full comp, Mitch and all of these guys. I think they're just a hair better than what the Pacers have shown. I think the one advantage that the Pacers are going to have, and we don't know what's going to happen this all season, a lot's going to happen.

But a lot of these teams are going to have to reshake and re, like, constitute who they are, like the Sixers first and foremost. So if the Sixers, let's say they even get a Paul George, now they're trying to figure that out and just like trying to manufacture the team that they're going to be, the Pacers just have such a clear identity, as you were kind of saying before. And now they have all the pieces kind of in place. So if they bring one or two guys in, it's not going to functionally change who they are. And so I could just see them as kind of a very, very, very good regular season team to the point where we're talking like top three in the East better than some of these teams that are more star-laden just because they have the foundation and the backbone of what they had.

And that's kind of like the advantage of a postseason run like this. Like you develop who you are. You know who can step up in certain situations. And like as we're saying, half the team has stepped up with Halbert and gone. We talked about four or five guys. Like even Ben Shepard looked awful tonight. But like he's had some minutes here where he might be able. He had some moments in the first two rounds.

Totally. So he might be a guy too. So they might be developing some semblance of what they had in the Paul George, Roy Hibbert, Verticality era, which is obviously huge for them. With Fandle, it's never too late to get in on the action this NBA playoffs because right now new customers get 150 bucks in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $150 to use on same game parley's live bets, championship futures, exclusive markets, and so much more. So let's look ahead to Sunday's tilt between the wolves and Mavericks. Game

three, they're in Dallas, but I kind of like the wolves here, plus two and a halfs. I want to take the points first and foremost because the games have been close. I also think the wolves are going to have to get back into this. They were a Nasreed shot away from winning that game two. So I have to imagine that this might be the game they get back. We'll see, but I think there's enough in their favor to take that bet, plus two and a half in game three. Give me the wolves. With Vandle, there's is no better place to bet all the playoff action than America's number one sports book. Just go to Fandul.com slash ringer NBA to get started, Fandul official sports betting partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 plus and 18 plus in D.C. And present in select states, excluding North Carolina, gambling problem, call 1,800 gambler or visit RG dash help.com, first online real money wager only, $10 deposit required, bonus bets are non-withdrawable and expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. All right, let's turn to the West Finals before we go here. I'm curious because I did the pod, the live YouTube thing last night.

What was your reaction to the Lucas shot? Were you screaming in Slovenian at whoever you could find in your apartment? I was actually across the street from Staples at a bar full of people at 33 taps. Shouts to the staff over there, the A1. Just amazed, man. I'm just, like, I've just been blown away by Luca this whole playoffs, just from, you know, dealing with the nagging knee injury to just he's pressing all the right buttons, man. Even at the end of that in the fourth quarter where, you know, they ran that damn staggered screen action every single time.

And every single answer Minnesota had, Luca was finding the weakness, whether it was a shooter in the corner. whether it was a lob, whether it was a shot for himself. Like, he just kept hitting all of his marks. And when he made that shot, that step back, I was just in awe, man, of the journey that he's taking this playoffs. I think we've all assumed this was going to happen for Luca at some point in his career. I don't think many of us predicted it would be this particular postseason. But, man, I'll be damned if he hasn't been the best.

player all around in the playoffs. There were games where the shot wasn't falling and he couldn't get to his spots and he wasn't scoring efficiently. But right now, the way he's controlling the offense, man, of this game, a couple of possessions where he stoned a couple of drives on defense. I'm just like, I'm blown away by how Lucas playing and the way that he's delivering for the Mavs, man. So, yeah, I was just, it was jaw-dropping.

And that game was just played at such a high level. The freaking Kyrie bobble into an alley-you for a dunk, I'm just like, yo, even when these dudes are screwing up, they're making incredible plays. Like, I'm just blown away by this series, man. I never wanted to end. I just think the level of players has been so incredible. But yeah, to answer your question, just amazement at this guy.

The two things from Luca these days that jump out are, won the just sheer dominance. In that third quarter, the only defense that the wolves really had was that Lucas seemed to get tired because he had to do so much work in order to cook these guys. Like the fact that the best defense in the NBA just does not have a matchup for this guy is just to show you like the combination of just footwork and shopmaking and size and just smarts. It's just like it's really unbelievable.

And then two is just like the theater of it all. What was it? like two seconds into the game, they take the time out and he's biting the towel because it seems like he's too hurt. And then by the end, he's screaming bloody murder, perhaps in Serbian, although it didn't look like it was in Serbian or Slovenian. Sorry, I can make a mistake. Because he's just hit one of the biggest shots in recent playoff history. It's just like he's really got everything going here. And so I don't know. How are you feeling as the series tilts back to Dallas? Does it feel like the wolf?

Wolves are kind of on the ropes here? Or are you more bullish about their ability to get back in? The Mavs have two games in hand, and they haven't even played at home yet. Obviously, we're not rocket sciences for pointing out that they're favored to win this series at this point, the advantages with the Mabs. I just think if you're the wolves, like, you feel confident that you can beat this team. Like, you've been in these games.

You've been in a position to win. And I think one of the cool things that happened towards the end, Ant started going downhill and just attacking the basket with reckless abandon. I think that's something that was found. And I think that's something that needs to be explored more in these games in Dallas. I just think, look, man, you lost two tough games and you have to feel like you're good enough to be on the same floor as the Dallas Mavericks. I don't see why they should be dissuaded from that. But it is tough to lose those two games in that tough manner that they did

and have to now go to Dallas and try to steal to. Yeah, I'm up to minds where it's like the wolves have been right there in both of these games. The point where Nas Reid makes that shot that Luke was like, oh, I thought that was going in because Nas could hit God damn near everything in that game last night. This is a completely different series. But on the other hand, it's like, man, you look at it more broadly. It's like, oh, they did get like a Jada McDaniels, like, couldn't miss game. They did get a Nas Reid couldn't miss game in the process.

process for what Dallas is doing just seems so much more repeatable because it really is Kyrie and Luca just driving so much what they do and they do have the two bigs who are just playing absolutely out of their mind and just like running these guys into the ground like to be Rudy Gobert like obvious not the biggest highlight for Rudy Gobert's defensive player of the year Hall of Fame real light highlight clip right but to track these like young springy bigs when they're just just running the shit out of you for three minutes and then subbing outside out like a hockey lineup. Like that's tough.

And that's like a combination that's not the only going to be tough for the wolves, but if they get to the finals of the Mavs do, like that's going to be tough on the Celtics. Yeah, the fact that those guys can just essentially play balls to the wall in all of their minutes,

which is something you just can't ask Biggs to do generally, right? Like it's hard to ask them to just sprint into every screen and then sprint on your role and like, you know, get back on defense really fast. and like do all of this stuff, be willing to meet guys at the level or switch or blitz or like to put a big man through all of that. It's tough to ask him to do that for 36 minutes,

but guess what? These guys aren't asked to do that, right? It's just an incredible advantage. I think like if you want to critique Rudy's defense on that last possession, I think it's fair to say that he probably could have played Luca more for the drive and sent him into some help. But like, bro, Luca crossed this guy up, made an incredible shot. Like, come on, bro.

Like, what do you really want from a dude that's seven foot four, whatever the hell Rudy is? Like, I think he gave it a pretty good effort. I just think Luca is just so dialed in and locked in right now that it's just going to be tough for whoever is put in front of him. Yeah, I don't know why he was out there to begin with. That seemed like as much a coaching thing as it was a Rudy thing. Like, to be on an island against Luca, it's just like,

I don't know what you'd expect from any things. lumbering 7-2 guy in the league. He was in a no-win situation, but you're right. Maybe he could have played for the drive. But it just seemed like a lot was off on that position. But I wanted to go through here what I'm calling the pressure index going into game three for some of these wolves guys because it does feel like each of their three superstars, stars, whatever you want to call them, are like kind of wobbling in a way that is interesting.

First and foremost, I think we've got to talk about Ant, who the past three games have just been kind of a muted, I would say. He's probably the best way to think of it. He's still averaging 198 and 7 overall, shooting 29.8% from the field. So that's three games. So last game seven of the Nugget series in these two was obviously on a different level in the previous 10, 36 and 6 basically. What do you think Ant needs to do in this game?

And is he like on in your packing order of who needs to show up in this game three? is he first and foremost? I mean, for me, in game two particularly, I thought he got some shots that I didn't hate. Like, some of those looks felt like decent looks. Again, most of them are off the dribble, and he's doing all of the shot creation on his own, and I think that is tough, and that takes a toll.

Those are the hardest shots to generate and make in the game. But, like, I think he's just got to stay the course. Like I said before, be more willing or put an emphasis, a bigger emphasis on getting to the basket. Because we saw that he was getting filed. He was finishing. He was just more aggressive down the stretch about getting to the lane. And I think that is going to open up more stuff,

make guys load up on that. And that'll give his jumper and his perimeter game some space to breathe when he's doing that. But, you know, again, the guy's 22 years old, bro. Like, this is an incredible stage. The Mavs are legitimately an elite NBA defense. Like, you know, these are some of the bumps you take on the way, man. Like, thank Kobe his first year. Think LeBron so many years in the Eastern Conference

against teams like the Celtics and stuff like that. Like, he's taking his lumps and it's not looking pretty right now, but I think this is important in terms of the road to becoming a lucre type, man, the kind of guy who just, he sees a defense and he has an answer for everything that they put in front of him. and it's just not there yet on the mental side, but I think there's still stuff that he can discover, and I think he will play better going forward.

Yeah, in a lot of ways the book just might be out on him, at least in this postseason setting, where it's like you just want to make him a decision maker. And I thought the main difference between his first half and his second half in game two was just he was getting downhill, as you mentioned, putting fouls on guys, getting to the line, playing with physicality, and that reckless abandon that he does so well.

In the second half, he was, forced to just run things and make the right reads. And he did some of the times, but in these situations, as you mentioned, like, you kind of have to do it every time because that's the bar that Luke is going to set. I also think it helps. We talked about, like, what the, the bigs do for Dallas just running and just with their activity levels, but also on the boards, we should mention. But, like, the fact that those guys are so good at rim protecting, both of them without falling as much. And even if they do fall, that's 10 falls, as opposed to in most situations, like, You have to turn to a backup who probably can't do as much.

I mean, look at the drop off from like a Gobert to whatever they're going to bring in. Then you're worrying about like a Kyle Anderson and whatnot. And so I do think like having to cycle through two separate rim protectors makes it tougher to even do that strategy where you're not really playing a guy off the court because Lively's coming. And quite frankly, he's been better in a lot of these situations in Gafford. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

His activity has been incredible. These guys are just actual legitimate deterrence, man. Like, when the wolf's guards, like Mike Conley is like, look, I got to get it done from floater range. You know, for basically a game and a half, it was like, yo, I'm not even going down there to attempt. And some of his attempts just looked wild and harried and rushed. You know, these guys, like, the best defenses is not even that you so much are great at guarding, you know, paint shots. You're great at discouraging them in the first place. And that's what the wolves bigs have been able to accomplish in these games so far, man.

I just think that the wolves need to be more daring and not just aunt. Carl Towns need to be, he needs to be less quick, trick. I get it. He's the greatest shooting big man in the history of big man, according to himself. But he needs to have a more concerted effort in terms of driving to the basket going forward. And I think that just has to be

the onus has to be on the two stars. The two best offensive players to get that done. So number two on the list is you guessed at Carl Anthony Towns, who is somehow shooting worse over the past two games than Anthony Edwards, 27.8% from the field, 21.4% from three for the self-proclaimed best shooting big man of all time.

I don't know. I ultimately default to this is just a very townsy situation where like that squishiness that you worry about with him, where the settling for the shots and not like throwing his weight around in a way that he can, but typically does not. He seems to be falling into that zone a little too readily than he was maybe in the next, in the previous round. Yeah, I think he's having trouble calibrating the two towns is, the big man towns and the perimeter oriented towns.

And I just think he needs to get it in his head that he needs to play more big man style and be willing to bloody and bludgeon and just play with more physicality. I know like that work is thrown around, but it's the playoffs and like the nature of how the game is now called, God bless Adam Silver. Like that's how you have to get it done.

You have to be willing to hit first, you know, like, and it's not like every time he gets the ball, he's got Gafford of somebody on him. Oftentimes it is a person that he has a nice size advantage against. And so that's just, again, it's a calibration, like, even with aunt. It's like, okay, the defense sent some help, but I could still get a, you know, a decent for me anyway, as Aunt Edwards pull up two going, right?

Like, how often do you take that decent ant shot or make the quote unquote right play or the right pass? I think Towns is having issues with those decisions right now in terms of when to attack, when to get off the ball, when to take the three, when to give the up fake and actually drive against the closeout. I think he needs to just watch the tape, man, and just get better. He has to be better. That's the adjustment, right? Be better. Lock in. It's crazy because the wolves are so big.

yet the Mavs just play with the force that we're killing them inside. And they're just the activity, right? It's just like, it's not just the two centers that we're talking about. It's like PJ Washington has not had a good series. It seems like if he just steps above the break, all of a sudden he's a completely different player. Like he just flashes back to Charlotte, PJ. But like Derek Jones Jr., like there's just like all over the floor. Even Josh Green, not my favorite player who make a couple of mistakes a game.

But like those guys are just all over the place in a way that's like probably putting miles and time on a guy like towns who's just like he's a little lumber he's a center for god god forbid like the fact that he's been out there guarding some guys in the perimeter of this entire season like that was to his credit because that's not what he typically should be doing um but rudy's the last guy i mean i feel bad because the discourse about rudy is in a different place and i'm kind of in this other place where it's like oh he could be doing other things but like i don't know like on the one hand it's like they were so close in these games they probably don't have to change anything. On the other hand, like, Nasri almost won that game for them.

And Rudy just, my whole thing is like on offense, like, there's just never enough to counterbalance if you aren't just like laying the wood, just completely wiping out a team on the other end. So like, where are you on Rudy going into this game three? I'll say, like, he surprised me on offense, man. He caught most of the, you know, those interior passes. He had some nice finishes. Like, there was that one freaking. actual dribble, then dunk in the fourth quarter. I think it was, Jada McDaniels was on the baseline, fed it to Rudy. And, like, he had, like, he had some nice post-ups with a little guy.

He forced a foul. Like, I thought he was decent by Rudy's standards on offense. But you wonder, and this is, you know, this is the game within the game as far as the playoffs and why we are so obsessed with the chess match in playoff series. Like, you wonder if they want to be more offensive in their. approach by maybe, yeah, playing more Nasreed, more five out, spreading these guys out, giving an aunt a chance to attack a defense that has to guard four other shooters and not have the benefit of Rudy being parked by the lane.

Like, that's why these coaches get paid millions of dollars. Like, do you sit your $45 million defensive anchor in hopes of gusing extra offense? Who knows? You know, and you wonder if their defense will, like, you know, materially suffer from not having Rudy out there against these maps. Like, I don't know. I don't envy Chris Finch in trying to figure out this puzzle, honestly, man. But I don't think Rudy's been bad is what I'm saying.

Like, I would go to say he's been pretty good, honestly. Yeah, I agree with that. And then the last guy I just have on the list here would be Chris Finch because you have to figure something out here because I just don't think Jaden McDaniels in isolation against Luca Donchich is going to do it. But I'm struggling to come up like with who. Who's the answer is like, do you try ant? But then on the flip side of that is,

are you really going to wear ant down because you're going to need him to drive so much of the offense? Like, I don't see an easy answer here. So some of the stuff, especially, I think they'll be able to clean up. The staggered screen actions, like Jaden kept trying to go over these screens. When really, like, Lucas 35 feet from the basket,

like that's actually an opportunity to go under right there and blow up the usefulness of that play. I think there's things that they could nip and tuck and fix in post. But I think Jaden is your best option against Luca. Like, I don't know. Like, Ant is having a hard enough time on offense that, like, to be like, all right, now Luca Donchich has to be your primary focus as well on defense. I think they should stick and believe in the Jaden matchup

and just, you know, try to just make it difficult by, correcting some of the stuff on the fringes, like the screen navigation, like negotiating, you know, how far Rudy is, you know, up on the screen and navigating, like, the lob and the corner threat. And getting that stuff right, like, there was a, like, a last possession

where Kyrie made the three-pointer in the corner, where Mike Conley, it's his duty to go close out on the shooter, and he jumps out to Derek White instead of Luca. Like, it's those little, things that I think they can be improving upon that. That makes the difference in these tight-ass games. And so those are the kind of things I think they've got to do more so than some drastic overhaul of their philosophy on defense.

Because, again, they almost won it. Had Nazare just made that last shot. So it was super close there. And they have been better on the road. So maybe unlike Zion, like going to Dallas actually provides a focus for these guys. Quickly, who do you think the Celtics? are reading for her to come out of this series? I mean, I would have said Dallas before,

but the way Luca is locked in, he's been obviously the best player. He's going to be by far the best player in that series if he plays against Dallas. And so I kind of feel like they want to play Minnesota. Like at this point, the way Lucas got it going, I feel like somehow the wolves, who I thought was the more superior, talented team coming into this.

this, I think the Celtics would rather play these guys. Like, Luca just feels like he's on an incredible role right now. Yeah. And that was kind of my expectation going out of the West Finals that, like, if the wolves made it there, I felt like the Celtics would have preferred that just because the issues that Ant's running into now almost plays to the Celtics strength. They're not going to get outfought by a team like the wolves. Whereas, like, with Luca, it's kind of a similar proposition to Yokic, where it's like, this

guy has everything and also the size without necessarily lacking the mobility of a team like the wolves like they matched up pretty well and i'd be i'd be afraid there actually i want to get isaiah's take here because especially with rob out we have more space to fill i say who do you want to play i'm kind of conflicted on this um but honestly either i think this likes to be either of them like i think yeah how lucas hooping right now is tough um but i would like to see him guard Jalen Brown for seven games. It hasn't gone well in any game I've seen in the past. I don't anticipate it going well in that series.

Also, do I think Jane Hardy's going to play well against the Celtics? I don't. Sorry. I don't, you know what I mean? They're key role guys. I just don't see it for them. So you want to, you want Dallas? I think so. Plus, for the narrative reasons I want Dallas, but.

The Kyrie of it all? The Sage. The K.P. Chris. For two weeks talking about Sage. If Taiton can beat Luke in a series, all the talks are finished, all that stuff would be fun. But the wolves and experiences really would help the Celtics a lot. Like, their half-court sub-lating games is worse than the Celtics.

And so that would be helpful. That would be helpful. One of the few teams in the league, for sure. Yeah, we have worst half-court stuff. Anything coming out of the East Finals for you, Isaiah? Any takeaways? What are the people saying? I mean, everybody's just shitting on the,

some weeks, which they can do, I don't care. You know what I mean? It's the 3-0. I don't care. I don't think they've played their best ball because, like you said, was they're looking at the other team going, I think we'll coast. Like tonight felt like the first playoff game I've watched all playoffs. Since probably like game two at a heat series or something like that. Like, most of these games felt like another regular season game. And half of this felt like a regular season.

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. So like I was happy to see Elite Shotmaking, Tatum making threes. was like, I had to check the box score to see, wait, this guy made three threes in a playoff game. Let's go. We're back. And so the only thing I'm looking forward to the rest of this series is Kent Tatum keep the three-point shooting going. Because if he's making threes, they're winning the finals with or without KP. If he makes threes 27 a game, whatever he was averaging before, is now 35 a game.

Like, there's just a huge difference than that. You know what I mean? They can't wait to see it. Supremely confident headed into the final. These teams just, I don't know, man. They're too small and don't spook me. Yeah. I like Derek Jones as a defender, but he's like 180 pounds, 190 pounds.

It's not heavy enough. He's too skinny. Same with Jaden, to be honest. He has similar problems. I would also say Celtics Mavs would also be a win, another win for your guy here. Because I remember going into the playoffs, we were talking about which team other than the Nuggets in the Celtics could we see getting there? Barrier You were a Mavs guy

I was a Mavs guy Oh that's good I love this bit of Justin Just like I'm always right Like I'm on a heater right Not every take is right

The ones that matter are Justin being like I have to bring it back though Like I had the right tape But let me just That's fair This is fair This is fair

I have to roll it back for you guys I'm loving it I actually have some sage Right here on my Counterspace over here And I can't wait If the if the if the Mavericks and the Celtics

Make it to the finals We're gonna be burning some sage up here Every single game I don't know if there's enough Carrie can bring into the garden I don't know if there's enough To actually clean that up Well maybe that will like

Fend off all the evil spirit it's keeping you and Rob from being right about anything. So. Oh, God. All right. Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be back Wednesday. I guess time TBD based on how the East Finals goes.

Thank you to Isaiah Blakely for chiming in and for producing this episode. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Eduardo Ocampo. We'll see you next time. Must be 21 plus and 18 plus in D.C. In present in select states, Fandul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star Casino LLC.

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