The Ringer NBA Show - The Clippers Expose the Lakers’ Flaws in Round 1 of the Battle for L.A. Plus: Must-Watch Games. | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 23, 2019

The Los Angeles Clippers impress on opening night with a statement victory over crosstown rivals Los Angeles Lakers: how the Lakers can address their shortcomings (0:59) and what more we can expect from the Kawhi Leonard–era Clippers (12:29). Then we preview some of the most anticipated matchups of this week (20:19). Host: Chris Ryan Guests: Justin Verrier, Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What if the nuggets are too deep? The hornets are actually fun to watch. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. Group chat. Barrier is here. My name is Chris Ryan.

Shortly will be joined by Jonathan Charks. The NBA season has begun. The Raptors beat the Pelicans, like 1.30-something. That's what everyone wants to talk about. The marquee game last night was obviously the battle for Los Angeles. The Lakers.

On the road against the Clippers. What didn't feel like a road game? It felt like a neutral sight game. It felt like it was taking place in Tron. It was such a stupid court. And we could get into that if you want to. But yeah, Clippers beat the Lakers 112.102. It honestly did not feel that close to me,

as it didn't feel as close as a 10-point victory if I'm more like 15-16. Yeah, at times it seemed like the Lakers were going to be able to make a game out of this. But just at a certain point, Kauai was just like, this is my game. Yeah. And really didn't let go from there.

Yeah, so I was listening to Bill on the way into the office today, and he was talking about how it was pretty clear that LeBron was the third best player in this game. And I kind of wanted to talk, a little bit about the Lakers. I'd take anything away from the Clippers who I think are already who we thought they were and they don't even have Paul George yet. Paul George explicably showing up to this game like he's going to an eighth grade formal or something.

You don't know that's not where he came from. Has anybody ever, has anybody ever done that before? Just worn a tuxedo? To opening night of a basketball game? I'm sure they have, but not in that like resplendent of an outfit. Do you think that he was like, this is, I'm graduating. into L.A. basketball? Or do you think he does like, I look like James Bond? I think his stylist picked that out for him and he was just like, cool. He pulled the Anthony

Davis. This is just what someone laid out for him. Okay, that's right. That's right. All right. Let's talk a little bit about the Lakers though. Because I was a little chillier on their prospects than a lot of people, especially Kevin O'Connor, who had them winning the finals and he could

still be right. But the thing that I was really more worried about, regardless of any perceived, like, degregation. on LeBron's part, was the supporting cast around them. Yeah. It's real bad. Yeah, and it definitely showed up last night. It was particularly bad because it was juxtaposed with the Clippers, who, as we've talked

about for a year now, made all of the right moves on the fringes in the way that the Lakers just didn't. The Zubatch, like, trade is the one that everyone points to. Obviously, the Clippers got him at the trade deadline for basically Lent from the Lakers, and he's now their starting center. But I looked around in, like, Mo Harkless, all of a sudden looks like the type a guy who could potentially start even when Paul George comes back for this team.

Jamichael Green, a guy that they just picked up again at the trade deadline for basically nothing. I think the Grizzlies just needed to get out of the attacks. And he is now an essential piece of this team. I think he fired up seven threes and made four and was like a big part of turning that game around late there. The Lakers, they don't have Kyle Kuzma.

That's a big loss for them right now because he's injured. Rondo didn't play. But outside of Davis, James, and Danny Green going, off. There really wasn't much else. Yeah, the Danny Green thing is a little bit. It's interesting because you wonder whether or not Davis and James will attract so much attention that those points are out there for one of the other Lakers every night. Yeah. But Danny Green was unconscious last night. He was getting like six bounce threes to go in, you know, and he was doing fadeaways

from the corner. So you cannot count on that. Dwight was fine. They got absolutely nothing from KCP in 27 minutes. Yeah, the KCP one is the big one. Yeah, I mean, 0 for 3 and 27 minutes. I don't know what's going. What are you doing out? there. Because Polinka really made his bed with KCP a while ago. Well, he made his bed with Clutch on that one. Right. Yeah. And I get that. And perhaps that laid the track to get to where they are now with LeBron and Davis, both Clutch clients, leading this team. But it seems like they keep buying into this idea that KCP can still be the player. I don't know where else they have to put their money though. What else are they going to spend?

Like, what else are you doing here? Sure. But they keep making this bet and it keeps coming up just like Snake Eyes. It's just terrible. He was 0 for 3 last night. And I think that they had designs of him guarding Kauai, and that did not work. Yes. And I don't think he's going to be the stopper they need. I just also don't know where on this roster that sort of wing stopper is going to come from. Yeah, I think also, I mean, look, you alluded to this. This is a good segue at least.

This idea that KCP was taxed for everything else that they wanted to do with clutch, let's say. You know, it's like a goodwill token for Davis and James. Fine. But now you're in a situation where this team is just not good enough to play with those two superstars. And I don't know necessarily that they have the slack that they think they do. I'm not talking about Davis leaving as much as making adjustments for, if LeBron isn't going full speed on opening night, that seems strange to me. I can understand not going full speed at Thanksgiving on Valentine's Day.

at Easter, but not going full speed, and I'm only naming holidays. LeBron James only plays five times a year, and they're only major national holidays. Only rises on Easter, yeah. Exactly. No, I mean, like, if he's, I can understand these other mile markers along the way if he's like, I'm coasting right now. But if he's going to play like this, this bench and this supporting castes to be a lot better.

Can I play devil's advocate, though? I think it's in the Lakers. LeBron James doesn't like playing on the road. Perhaps. I think it's in the Lakers' best interest for him to defer, especially early. I think it's important that Anthony Davis is the most important player on this team. And LeBron signaled that in the offseason, just getting Davis in there and just wanting to give him his jersey number and all that.

And he was also willing to do so for Kauai. And I think it's important for him to show Davis that he's the reason why this team is going to either succeed or fail. because LeBron, as we saw, is in a different phase of his career. I think that's very clear now. Like, he could still turn it on. There was a point where he just made that, like, giant tomahawk dunk. And I'm like, oh, that's vintage LeBron. But for the most part, he was deferential.

He was setting guys up more. And I think from, like, outside of the paint, he was just atrocious. I don't think his jump shot was working. And so he definitely needs to be in that role going forward. He also just didn't get to the line enough. Davis didn't have, like, the greatest shooting night ever. but he got to the line 14 times, and LeBron only went four times.

I thought I saw a couple of weird LeBron plays where he was diving towards the rim with the ball and then would do acrobatic kickouts to Avery Bradley, which is, like, I think, probably good for the gander, but not for the goose. I would also say Davis was really good. I don't know what you get when you're playing Anthony Davis as primary ball handler, 37 minutes.

He didn't do that for 37 minutes, but there were long stretches where I felt like he was running the offense for the top of the key. Primary ball handler. He was deeing up Kauai a lot in crunch time. That's just a lot of usage. I was kind of wondering, like, is this the plan, 37 minutes? Because I watched that movie with Joel last year. Right.

Yeah, I think it's a good idea that they're going to split those guys up. You saw in limited stretches where, like, Davis nor LeBron were on the floor and it was just atrocious. So this is just going to have to be the way that they're going to do it going forward. It is a little bit discombobulated. Especially when Davis is there. Now, Rondo wasn't there. Alex Caruso, a guy that we kind of poke fun at. I keep hearing those names getting mentioned, though.

Like, what are we talking about? I think it just points to the dearth of ball handlers that have outside of LeBron. The ball handling, I can understand, yes. And so you're just hoping that Davis, they went to Davis in post-up situations. Dan Devine wrote about this for us on the ringer, like, more than Davis has pretty much his entire career. It's just not the way that he's used to playing. And while he's good in isolation, just seems like he was just forcing. Yeah, he was forcing a lot of, like,

turn around jumpers, and I just don't think that's the best usage of him. So do you think that's Anthony Davis saying, like, throw me down low, or you think it's Vogel and kid being like, this is how we play basketball in the 90s? When Ben Wallace raged over the world. Right. I would assume it's because of the personnel they had right now. I'd want to see, like, one or two games to see, like, what their plan of attack is with those sort of guys in there. But I'm worried that the minutes without LeBron are going to be like this, because Davis,

although he is developing as a ball handler, he's not an isolation scorer in the way that, like, you know, Kauai is. Yeah, okay. Well, the Lakers are own one. It's over. Vogel's on the hot seat. Did you see the photo that Jason Kidd put up

on Twitter yesterday? I don't know. Before the game, it was like, new Laker season, let's go. I just was like, if Jason Kitt's tweeting from the bench, we have a problem. But it was just him coaching a group of Lakers players. Was Vogel not in the shot?

He was not in the shot. Where was Frank Vogel in this shot? He was probably just waiting for Jason Kidd to shift him in the back. I think that I just want to touch on this one more time. There is no cavalry coming. Kuspa's coming back and maybe he gets you 18 a game. And maybe if he's like doing the Danny Green act, he gets you 22 a game, like on a good night. And then Rondo's coming back and Rondo is going to be, it's not like Rondo is a spring chicken.

And Rondo is also injury prone, I think, in a way that which is like Rondo's good for two weeks. And now he's out for three weeks. And now he's back, but he's nursing a hamstring. but now he's out. Right. So they don't have the pieces to do anything here, really. I mean, I guess they could get into the Iguodala market if there is one, but it feels like Iguadalo is going to be one of the most valuable pieces in the trade market.

Yeah. And I don't know what they have to trade for him. Right. And if he gets bought out. Because Kuzma's deal is so low that that's actually not a chip. He's an interesting asset, but you wouldn't have to attack. Like, you wouldn't be able to make salary match with any other veteran. And presumably they're not going to want to sign some kit, get some kit in.

Right. Yeah. Wow, the Lakers are fucked, huh? I mean, we are kind of at Occam's Razor, where it's like all of the issues that we assume the Lakers would encounter this season, they faced from game one. Like, they just don't have the depth. They don't have a lot around these guys,

whereas the Clippers have that. They had everything that the Lakers didn't. All right, we're going to take a quick break to hear from our sponsor, and then we're going to call Jonathan Charks to talk about the Clippers and specifically Kauai. Today's episode of group chat is brought to you by Roman with two-thirds of guys experiencing noticeable hair

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slash Ringer MBA. That's getRoman.com slash ringer MBA for a free visit. to get started, go to get roman.com slash ringer NBA. Now, let's bring on Jonathan Charks. All right, now we're joined by Jonathan Charks, the ringer's Jonathan Charks. John, what's up, man?

Man, I'm glad basketballed me back. That was fun last night. Yeah, so let's talk about last night from the Clippers perspective because you had a really good observation last night that unless you were me and Justin and the other 50 people in our slash. The chosen few.

The chosen few. We're like the Marines, but we sit around a lot more. The thing you said last night was you felt like you were watching basically like the belt get transferred in real time to Kauai. Yeah, because I'm remembering the finals two years ago when, I mean, Duran, I think was playing LeBron to a draw, but LeBron was still putting up like 40 points and scoring a will. But I felt like last night, Kauai just had him beat.

Like, Kauai was just better in a way that I have never seen before where, okay, no, LeBron's not the best player on the floor. It's not even really an argument. Yeah, I mean, there was kind of cool that Kauai got this. first night and this first shot at the Lakers without Paul George. Because when you said the Durant thing, it made me think, like, we never really got to see or we haven't gotten to see Durant since those Thunder Days. And even those Thunder Days, some of it was with Hardin and Westbrook.

And then it was still with Westbrook, who's such a domineering presence. But Kauai got to, like, essentially bring the Raptors ethos right over to the Clippers where it's like, everybody's going to be involved. I'm going to play in the cut for a few minutes. And then whenever we need me, I'm just going to rattle off five. six in a row and just could lock down the team's best opposing player. And the fact that he got to do it without being like, oh, so he's super teamed up with Paul George.

And it wasn't like that, man. He was just the best player on the floor last night. It wasn't even really a debate. Yeah, it was whenever he wanted his shot, he'd get to his spot and get his shot. And all Lakers could do was double. Then he found the open man. Whereas it felt like LeBron wasn't doing that to the same degree.

Whereas LeBron was working a lot hard to score than Kauai was. Yeah, it was a weird, like, reality kind of window into what it would have been like had Kauai just been the guy for the Clippers. I still wonder to this day, and I think people within the Clippers wonder, had Kauai just been a little bit more patient and just let them maybe make the Paul George trade in midseason or just like allow themselves a little bit more leverage in the negotiations, whether or not Kauai, Shea and some of the other guys that they have now still would have been successful. I think Kauai is at the point in his career where they could have led that to you.

they hadn't had to make the thunder trade, would they have been able to make it for cheaper later? Right. Or if they just went ahead with Shea is kind of his guy next to him. Yeah, that would have been fascinating, right? I don't think Kauai cares, right? He doesn't care about the future. Like, make my team best now. I don't care about your future. Yeah. Clearly, he was just like, give me what I want now. But it's interesting because I do think this team would be perhaps not as fearsome, but like definitely in the title mix without Paul George. But do you think that part of that is because you had so much affection for the clipper.

team. That's SGA Gallos Clippers team. Part of it, it also just doesn't make sense business-wise to do what Kauai did, which was like hold them hostage and tell them to just get the guy that he wanted. Now, it makes them just a colossus and they're probably better

off this season for it, but you can't help but worry about the big picture. Yeah. What did you guys think of the way the Clippers actually played? Because obviously, I don't think we're going to see a massive difference when Paul George comes back. I think Paul George is notoriously amenable to like slipping into the flow of whatever the offense is.

I don't think he played drastically different in Oklahoma than he necessarily didn't Indiana. So what did you think of the way Doc ran that team out and some of the new faces and some of the old faces? John. Well, I mean, to me, it just, what stood out was how much more room they have to get better. I mean, they started Patrick Patterson last night.

And he's probably their 10th, 11th best player. Yeah, that's improbable. I still don't really understand that one. I love a random starter, though. I love that because I feel like that was definitely more of a staple of like before the super teams you would just get the or actually even during the super teams where it would be like man we really got to just put a fifth guy out here. Right. Is the Keith Bogan's.

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Oh, Keith Bogan. There's a cut. Oh my goodness. Bulls Bogan's. But even just tactically, what did you see from the Clippers last night? I thought they did a great job of using Lou and Kauai as kind of their two main dudes.

And then Lou just picked apart Dwight Howard. That was bad. He said, whenever you're on the floor, I can get buckets on you, real easy. Either you're going to double me on get to Trez, or I'm just in that jumper. Tres had a lot of wide open looks, diving towards the lane. And also, it's kind of cool how they still use Lou as a quasi-closer at the end of the game. And they have Kauai Leonard. Lou Williams is still basically unstoppable in the last five minutes.

Yeah, I mean, they played Lou in Montrez the most amount of minutes last night. Which I think is kind of nice because clearly Kauai takes his team to another level, but there is a backbone of a good team still based on what they had last year. And they just exposed the Lakers' lack of depth, too. I mean, Jared Dudley, Troy Daniels, KCP, Dwight, Quinn Cook. Those guys, they couldn't really stay on the floor

against the Clippers, I didn't feel like. No, they should be ninth men. Those guys are ninth and tenth men. Jared Dudley should, I mean, like, Jared Dudley is nice, but I don't think he should be playing like 16, 17 minutes for a winning team right now. Yeah, and the Clippers just have

not only more options, but the options that they have just look more versatile. Seems like they could plug in play a bunch of different guys in different roles. Whereas the Lakers seem committed to making this Javelle McGee, Dwight Howard's center rotation work. I don't know how long that's going to last, but it seems like Anthony Davis wants that to be a thing. He wants to play more for. And the Lakers were pretty much playing a true center, I think, the entire game next to him.

It just feels like Harkless Harrell and Green versus Howard and McGee is everything you need to know. about these two front offices. Because these two front offices both went star hunting over the last couple years. They both got these elite players, but the Clippers were able to not only bring in some new guys

and bring in some interesting new guys, but strangely keep the DNA and the soul of the team that people really dug last year, SGA aside, Gallo aside, they still feel like the Clippers. Yeah.

Charks, who do you think is their best five, though, on the Clippers? That's a tough. I mean, are we counting Kauai and George, including those, win that five? Yeah, let's say George's back. Okay, I mean,

Kauai George, I'd say Kauai George Williams, Montrez, sham it, but they just have so many options. It's probably pretty, whatever the matchup requires, right? They can get Harkless in there for more wing size. They can get green out there for a stretch big. They can get Beverly in there for defense. I mean, they don't really have a best five. This makes them so good. They have like four best fives. Yeah, and that's the one thing that I, like, stood out to me. I wonder if, like, Mo Harkless all of a sudden is Fahom Money and like a type of guy who could start for that, even with Paul George and Kauai in there.

Yeah, just watching the, like, you don't even have to see the name on the back of the jersey to see how much more Harkless and Green feel like 2019 NBA players and part of a 2019 NBA system versus the guys that the Lakers are running out there. And it's not to say that the Lakers won't have a successful season or that these teams might not meet it in the Western Conference Finals. I mean, they very well could. But if they do, I don't know how tight it's going to be. See, to me, my thought was, I feel like the Lakers are going to need a point guard at some point.

I think you can ask LeBron to bring the ball up the court every time, expend that much energy, make rim runs. I think they're going to have to playmaker and make his life a little easier. I just don't know how they conjure that up. I don't know what magic beans they have and who's the playmaker. Like, even if they somehow got Iguidala. Like, is Iguodala the answer there? Alex Caruso, baby.

I want to see him out there. AC. Lakers legend. Didn't he damage his core with all this crazy lifting? Didn't he tried to get too swall? Yeah. All right, let's talk a little bit about the league at large. By the time you're listening to this,

I'm sure the games might almost be tipping off for the first full slate of the NBA season. Let's take a look at these games. So we've done so many power ranking, so many predictions, so many, you know, here's my takes about the season. I kind of wanted to get into more practical terms about games we're really looking forward to. So we're going to do appointment viewing here. This is where John. me and Justin are just going to recommend games that you tune in for if you've got the league

pass fired up. We're going to start out with musty games and then we're also going to do a hipster game for the week too. So Justin, why don't you tell me what your musty game of the next like six, seven days is going to be? So I went with the easy one here. So I thought the opening night lineup ended up being, well, kind of the nightcap was good. But overall, I think Raptors, Pelicans definitely left a lot to be desired as a matchup. I've been looking forward to the most. I've been looking forward to the most the Clippers Warriors match up on Thursday, in large part because not only are these

teams, do they have a lot of history, but I am fascinated to see what Steph Curry does as the number one option and also to see just how bad it is after Steph Curry on offense. There's just so much to be figured out about this team, the team that's really just been

most consistent and just like we knew what we were getting into over the past five years. Yeah, I mean, when they turn on the fire hose and try to out, like, put up 132 on this Clippers team, or they're going to be able to be successful? And if they are, can the Clippers keep up with them? I'm being serious.

Like, how do the Clippers want to play this year? Can they run? Can they play in a shootout with people? Are they going to want to play closer to what we saw last night, which is a game in the low 100s? That's interesting, like control tempo of the game, let Kauai isolate. Yeah, and then kind of, I almost felt like they were really content to let the Lakers sort of hang around because they knew that they had the right hand coming into the last,

like the last couple minutes. Well, against the Warriors, there's easy. points everywhere. I mean, they're going to start probably Glenn Robinson 3 on Kauai. I don't know. Oh, man. But the thing is, is that, like, do you think Kauai

looks at that as, like, lunch? Do you think he's like, I can't wait, get me out there? I'm going to put up 14 in the first quarter? I feel like if he needs to, he has it in his back pocket. Oh, y'all are, like, having a run on me. Hold on. I have GR3 on me. Clear out. Right, exactly. All right. Charks, what's your like, mainstream, must-see game of the week?

I'm going to stick with Lakers I think Lakers Jazz on Friday is going to be really fascinating to see. Because I think both teams can kind of attack each other's weaknesses and see how they respond to that. It's sort of like the sports center brain versus NBA Twitter brain. It's like the most popular team in the league and in the world probably in the Lakers versus the team that so many people have been like, dude, it's not going to be surprising if the Jazz are in the finals.

And here's all the reasons why. So big test for the Jazz early on. Yeah, I mean, it's also the regular season team versus probably the playoff team. The Lakers need to stack wins in order to be. to get themselves to the playoffs, but it does seem like in the series, I would still lean toward the Lakers because of those big two.

But as we saw last night, they need other guys to show up in order to really kind of make that work. People are going to freak out when these guys start losing. I just like watching it last night and, you know, it's like, okay, you're competitive. There was a great, did Anthony Davis play well?

Dwight didn't embarrass himself. It's going to get hot in L.A. when the Lakers are 5 and 10. The schedule is not doing them. Five and 10. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. Utah is a bad matchup for them because Utah is a machine.

They have a couple new pieces, but I just assume that just the system that they've been run for so long to just keep humming. After that, it gets a little bit easier. Give me the Charlott. Memphis. W.W. Dallas.

Maybe. Okay. I'm saying Dallas beats them. So that's their two and two there. I love the confidence, Chris. I love the confidence, my maps. San Antonio. Chicago, Miami, Toronto, Phoenix, Golden State.

Sacramento, Atlanta, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma City. So it does get easier. And then there's another Memphis game. I will say too for this game on Friday. I think it's as important for the Jazz, because for as much as they're like NBA Twitter's favorite team now, they quietly kind of got really small this offseason. So they're playing Connolly, Mitchell, Ingalls, Bogdanovich, around Gobert. So which one of those guys guards LeBron? I mean, I guess Bogdanovich guards him. For you last night, John, were you like, this is a different LeBron that I'm, used to seeing. What I saw was a guy who kind of has to change who he is. Like, I was kind of seeing LeBron a year from now. And I feel like when he watches this film, he's going to see it

too. Like, to me, if I'm LeBron, I think we've been saying for like five years, LeBron's going to have to start playing more in the post. And to me, we saw it last night. I think the best version of LeBron in 2019 is just playing bully ball down low. We saw it in the opening this game when he bullied Beverly and Kauai for like two straight points. Like, if I'm the Lakers, I won LeBron at like eight feet backing people in old school, 90s basketball stuff. But the implication there is that that's more physically demanding, right? That's why Anthony Davis doesn't want to play sender. That's why guys, like, that is an wear and tear thing to get an elbow in the lower back

for 35 minutes a night is why those guys, nobody is like, please play me on the block all night, right? But see, I'm not sure for a guy LeBron's age, like the idea of LeBron sprinting 40 feet to dunk over someone in traffic, that's physically demanding if he's playing point guard. If the Lakers are playing like YMCA basketball, then walking it up the floor. And LeBron's so big and strong, to me, that's not, because if he's playing in the post, he doesn't have to jump.

He can just elbow people and bully them. And he's so big, they can just bounce off him. But if he has to sprint constantly. Can you imagine play pickup with a guy and you get out there and the guy who's like, I'll play point. Here's the thing. We're going to grind it out. We're going to grind it out.

We're going to make every possession count. We're going to milk the clock. Chris, that's what we do with the Y now. I'm doing that today. But this was kind of... There's no shot block at the Y. You played a 30, man. So you're like, okay, we've got 25.

Let's slow the tempo down, go inside. This team is too fast. I mean, you've got to play basketball, man. But this was really LeBron's plan when he first signed him with the Lakers. No, that story came out as soon as they started signing all these guys that didn't really make sense for him last summer, where it was like, oh, LeBron's going to play more out of the post and he's going to get guys involved kind of in those situations. It seems like that was more of LeBron.

plan? Because he's kind of making that happen this year. The problem is if you're going to play that way, if LeBron's going to trend that way in his career, that's all the more reason not to play a traditional center next to him in Davis. There's another trend in LeBron's career. What's that?

He does not follow his plans. Sure. Not five, not six championships. Yeah. I will be in Cleveland for the years to come, building something for the future. Listen, Space Jam 2 is going to be great. Well, I mean, it's like the Mike Tyson line,

Everyone has a plant that get punched in the face. They got punched. So let's see. My mainstream, I'm not going to deviate from the brand too much. It's Celtic Sixers. Nice. Celtic Sixers tonight. I have had a lot of people.

I don't work for the Philadelphia 76ers. I'm just a fan. But a lot of people coming back, like, how are you feeling, man? How you feeling? I think you guys got this. I think you got this wrapped up. And it feels weird to get crowned early like that. It's been a strange experience to be going from, you know,

wow, this is going to be really interesting. couple years, then the massive changes that they made last year getting Butler and Harris, and then the massive changes that they went through this summer, bringing in Horford, losing Butler, but arguably becoming a more balanced team. All the speculation about Simmons's three-pointer, there's literally two Ben Simmons profiles up as of Wednesday morning, one on ESPN, one on undefeated, and it's just a lot of attention around this team. And traditionally, the Celtics have been a little bit of a boogeyman for the Sixers, but that boogeyman has traditionally been Al Horford, who's now on the Sixers. So I'm all close.

crossed up, but I'm very excited to see. The Celtic Sixers is one of the three or four best rivalries in the game. I mean, I thought actually Thunderblazers had a shot of being something for the next couple of years. It's like this really exciting, smaller gyms, like very, very, like, aggressive, passionate fans in both places and teams that seem to like stop not really like each other or too much. And then they essentially blew up the Thunder so we don't have, we don't have those players there anymore. So the Celtic Sixers is one of the best rivalries the games has. I'm glad they get scheduled at an opening night and Christmas Day.

It's a really great marquee matchup. Justin, we talked about this a little bit on group chat live during NBA Palozy yesterday, but obviously this isn't where the Celtics want to be. They were looking for a big three. They were looking to bring in major talent. And instead, they're kind of rolling with a hopefully rebooted Hayward. Kemma getting a second chance in a city

where basketball really is like, not to disparage Charlotte, but we're in a franchise that really matters. and these kids that they're now betting on. They gave Jalen the extension and Jason Tatum is World Cup. Everybody's just like, okay, it's Tatum's team. So what do you think of the Celtics chances this year? It's funny. I almost feel like the dynamics are flipped in this rivalry

where they don't have Horford, yes, but they have all the kids. They're the fun team with lower expectations. All of a sudden, the Sixers are stacked with veterans and they are expected to compete for a title. And if they don't, what does that mean? I think that is going to be a good thing for the Celtics, especially after Kyrie just completely torpedoed their season.

And it was pretty much like every week we're having powwows about whether or not this team gets along. And like, why is Kyrie saying this? I think that will help. I am concerned a little bit about the Celtics on the defensive end. But they have this possibility to be this fun young team led by Brad Stevens. Maybe he can recreate some magic with Kemmel Walker that he had with Isaiah Thomas. and all of a sudden, they might not be a title contender, but they're just a good team.

And that's something. Right. Sharks, on the other hand, should we talk a little bit about Thibble's MVP chances? I mean, I think that... I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think we've seen that Kauai has really modeled his game off of Thiable. How are you feeling about the Sixers heading into tonight?

Right. Matisse Thibel Revenge Game. He was drafted by the Celtics originally, right? That's right. It is a revenge game. It is a revenge game. Carson Edwards, too. They're all over the place.

All right. Sixers bully ball. Are you buying it? I think against a team like Boston. I mean, we got to see who Boston plays against Embed. Because they didn't just lose Horford. They also lost Aaron Baines. So, like, how long can Ennis Canter stay out there? It seems, that seems like a tough matchup for them.

It's just understatement right there. The other thing is, I want to see Josh Richardson play in this one. Because I think he'll be guarding point guards. See him against Kemba Walker. It'll be fun to watch that matchup. let's do our hipster games. So these are the games that people might not be checking for

ordinarily or you might want to just take a night off from the game. Justin, you give me your, this is my hipster game. I went deep cup here because sharks stole the grizzlies from me. So tonight, this is Wednesday, you have the clash

of the Washington Wizards against the Dallas Mavericks. Are you going to watch that instead of Celtic Sixers? I might come back to it. Because I have to tape Celtic Sixers because I'm going to a haunted hayride tonight.

As one does. on the second night of the NBA season. Look, man, you got to make sure everybody's happy in your life. Right, right. This is the key to marital bliss right here. But, yeah, so are Wizards Mavs? Okay, I'm fascinated for two reasons.

One, the Mavs are just super interesting to me. Luca in year two, seems like he's prime for a leap. I think that they have a lot of depth. And I'm just curious whether or not this team is the type of team that could sneak up on us and all of a sudden make the seventh seed or if they still need a little bit of time.

on top of that, we haven't seen Christopps Phringas for like two years at this point, definitely a year and a half. And while they're talking about perhaps bringing him along slowly, maybe he'll only play 60 or 50 games, the dynamics between him and Luca are appointment viewing for me from the jump. John, what's the word coming out of Dallas? Justin, that is a deep cut. I'll be at the game tonight.

I'm not sure I really want to be there. I respect it. Charks would rather be on the haunted hayride with me, man. Hey, man. Halloween season. The thing with Porzingis is really fun. So I've been going to match practices. And what they've been doing after practice,

they've been playing King of the Court with Porzingis, Luca, and Jalen Brunson. So that's where you have three guys playing one-on-one alternating so you can score the longest. The new big three. There you go. Rick Lowe's Jalen Brunson. It's been fun to watch Porzengis guard a 6-3 guard

and try to dribble around a 6-3 guard. Like, he looks pretty good. And on the other hand, I am interested in seeing what Bradley Beal and this kind of just misfit toys Wizards team is. It's weird because I just assume that they're going to be the worst team in the league.

I assume that Beal would just give up and want to be traded. All of a sudden, he's just completely subverted expectations where now he is committed at least for another season with this team. And it was interesting because Kevin Pelton did his stats-based projections

for the season, and the Wizards actually were better than the Hawks. So maybe there's something that we're missing about like the Bradley Beal, Thomas Bryant, pick, pick and roll. I want to find out. Okay, John, what's your hipster game? So I'm going to go true hipster.

I'm going to go Grizzlies Bulls on Friday. I think that's two really interesting young teams, and especially the Bulls. I really want to watch some play this year. This is like getting stuck in a dorm room and listening to like a dude play Jose Gonzalez covers on an acoustic guitar. That's how hipster this is.

This sucks. I would never watch this game. I don't even know who that is, who Jose Gonzalez is. Well, that's exactly why it's such a hipster cut. You don't know. Yeah, you sit on Chris's bed and talk about this into the night.

The Grizzlies, listen, they're just going to be a fun team. They play fast. Drama rant with the court spread and Jerry Jackson Jr. People are saying this about bad teams for like 11 years, but they play fast. They play fast. Well, they actually have to play fast because they don't have a lot else. Okay, so you're obviously, you need your John Morant passion confirmed then, Justin. Oh, it's already been confirmed.

I just want you to join the bandway. I promise to watch the nine minute highlight. I'll watch five minutes of that. Sharks, is there anybody on the Bulls that you're especially excited to see? I think Levine. I think he could have a huge year this year. It feels like it's really set up for him to go for like 25, 26 a night every night. I mean, the guy, when he's on, he can score a will, basically.

My Hipster game is the 7 p.m. Friday, or 7 p.m. Pacific. Friday night clash between the Sacramento Kings and the Portland Trailblazers. Wow. And the reason I picked this, it's not even that hipster. These are just two kind of like upper and lower middle tier teams. But for years, I think the kings have been aiming too high. They're trying to skip steps two and three to get to four. And all you hear about from VEC and that organization was like,

well, we want to be the warriors. We want to be the warriors. Like we have that warriors. The warriors are nearby and we just have our eye on the apple there. And I think that the kings could do a lot worse than to beat the Blazers. To be regular, feisty playoff appearances, really beloved players. They have a great fan base

that's dying for something to watch. And I think they're on their way there with some of the guys that they have. I think Deerrin Fox could very easily be a Damian Lillard-type figure for this fan base and for this city. And I think that it's going to be a really interesting test. You basically have a Blazers team

that believes in continuity that every year seems to lose what we would think is a key piece. Damian Lillard's still out here, candle in the win for Ed Davis. And now Harkless is on the Clippers. Myers-Leon, goodbye. This year, they've brought in Hassan Whiteside,

and they've, I think, improved their shooting a little bit, but the Blazers are the Blazers. We just don't know what the Kings are yet. And it's going to be kind of fascinating to see the kings measure themselves, not against the leagues necessarily the best, even though the Blazers obviously made us the conference finals last year, but just against the good and see whether or not they can regularly compete on a night-to-night basis. Yeah, I think this is a good matchup between two teams that have wide gaps

between their ceiling and their floor. These two seasons can go anyway. I could see the Kings putting things together, maybe the veterans that they brought in more enough, and some of the progress by Buddy Heel, Deer and Fox, that's enough to push them into the playoffs. Maybe the Spurs get injured and all the teams that we expect to be in the playoff mix

aren't there and the Kings just step up. On the other hand, I feel like the Blazers can fluctuate between either a home court advantage team, as we've seen in the past, or a team that might just barely sneak in the playoffs, because while they've done an okay job filling in around Lillard and McCollum, I think there's just a ton of questions here to the point where until Yusuf Nerkich comes, I wonder if they need to make a trade in order to really actually get a wing in there

as opposed to going with a lot of these just two guards and centers. But I almost feel like the Blazers showed with Rodney Hood. And obviously it's not like a one-to-one thing here, but they show that they can give almost a Blazers bounce for guys. you could bring in a Kent Bazemore and maybe get a little bit more out of him than other teams have over the past couple years. And we still don't know what Anthony Simons is going to be.

This is basically his rookie season. And he's been really, really hotly talked about since Summer League. Charks, have you seen much Simons? I watched him in Summer League, and he was putting up work there. He's going to be running back up point, probably, behind Damon and CJ. And this is a low-key, very different Blazers team.

Like for all the continuity that they don't have Harkless anymore, they don't have AFA anymore. I mean, they're going to be playing two bigs with Whiteside and Zach Collins at the four. They're going to be much smaller on the perimeter. They have your hood, Kent Baysmore. This is a smaller, more versatile team, but there might be struggling to play defense with the personnel they have. I just can't wait until they go, Hizonia, small ball five. That's the answer. Right there.

All right. So let's wrap it up there. Group chat will be coming to you every Wednesday with some combination of, this trio. Thanks to Isaac Lee for producing today's podcast. And make sure you're tuned in to all the other Ringer NBA shows this week. So the schedule for the week is heat check on Monday, mismatch on Tuesday, group shout on Wednesday, mismatch on Thursday. Obviously, Rissolow will be hitting the NBA throughout the season. And you might want to check out Bill Simmons' podcast because I hear he talks about basketball from time to time. So thanks for listening.

And we will talk to you next week. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good. You know,