The Ringer NBA Show - The Collapse of the Lakers and Nets, the Warriors-Suns Rivalry, and More With Bill Simmons | Real Ones

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

The Podfather himself, Bill Simmons, joins Logan and Raja to discuss how kids are learning to play sports these days (0:55), the Warriors-Suns rivalry (9:40), whether the Warriors have any more moves to make this season (22:00), why the Lakers and Nets are disintegrating this season (35:40), whether the Bulls are ending the superteam era (42:15), and so, so much more. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Bill Simmons Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons. Did I tell you that we relaunched our TV podcast that is now called The Prestige TV Pot? We did it in time for Succession, which is launching in October. But there's so many good shows this fall. We got Yellowstone and Billions and Insecure. We have the shrink next door. Is Mayor of Kingston going to be good? We're going to be breaking all of it down. The morning show season finale. We are going to be here. Like, we're treated like we treat the NBA playoffs. If there's a really good prestigious TV show, we're breaking it down in this feed. Check it out. The Prestige TV pod from the Ringer podcast network. What's popping? Real ones.

Logan Murdoch here. Roger Bell there. Hi, Roger. Hi, buddy. Hi, buddy. We have a guest today. It's kind of, you know, a little guest. Bill Simmons, how you doing, bro?

I invited myself. He did invite himself. I got a text like during the holiday break. Like, hey, I'm trying to go on a real one's. What's popping? And I'm like, we'll figure it out. And so a week later, here we are. Here we are.

Well, I wanted to grab Roger for my pod, but he's doing two week here. And then he's got the next Pat Mahomes in his house. So I never want to bother him. Yes. You know, I try to ease into it with him. I'm hands off with that now. I may have ruined him for basketball bill. Like I think I've said this on the pod.

I'm really hard on him with basketball. So like football, I just stay as far away as I can stay, man. I'm like, good luck. Smart. He's looking good. Easier. I don't like for you to have a kid that plays a sport that you didn't like. Like, Raja, full disclosure,

Raja loves football. Like, he would have went to the University of Miami. If he could do it all over and do it perfectly, he would went to the University of Miami and played football. But that being said, he did not play professionally football. So my question to you, Raj is, is it easier for you to raise a kid in a sport that is, a sports you didn't play?

Like, you can just be vibes. Is that, is that easier for you? 1,000%. Like, DIA and I, well, let me just put it like that. When I was coaching, right, because I coach as well, I thought it was really hard to, separate or for him to understand the line between coach and dad, right? And so the relationship could be affected at times. But football, because I don't know shit and I don't coach any of it,

it's a much healthier relationship. My middle son is wired a little different and he really loves hoops. So we're good. But yeah, I think it's generally easier if you ask most people, man, if your kid plays a sport where you could just sit back and watch him go to work or whatever, it's healthier for that relationship. That's a fact. I had the same with soccer. My daughter started playing soccer when she was like five. And that was, I always thought she was going to play basketball. And she just kind of headed towards soccer. It was way more fun for me because I didn't really understand soccer.

And now I do. I can see it. I don't see it as well as I see basketball, but I can at least see the angles and the spacing and the stuff and it's been fun, but I don't know too much. Whereas basketball, I think I would have had a hard time if she was playing a hard level because I just understand it. And I think it would have probably driven me crazy a little bit. For me, I think, I mean, not that we're going to turn this into this,

But like I get to build, like when I retire, people ask me all the time, hey, do you miss it? And I don't, I mean, I don't necessarily miss playing. I miss some of the things around the game. I miss the camaraderie and stuff like that. But what I found that I miss the most is learning, you know, and trying to be good at something. And so for me with football through DIA, it gives me another avenue to learn because I don't know anything about it, like real in depth. And so as he learns, I learn, right? And then we're, you know, we get to watch film.

And it's been cool for me to satisfy that part of what I miss, you know, about playing in the NBA. Yeah, in that position, that's all studying, mechanics, repetition, picking up little tips here and there. So, yeah, that must be a cool experience. It's not much different than, I don't know, like being a quarterback versus, like, being a golfer. Or like some of the stuff I'm sure Steph was doing from like age seven, age eight, where he's just over and over again, figuring out his release, his touch. all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's interesting, right, because I was talking to someone earlier, and this goes right into Steph, where, you know, you see guys or people that are just athletes in general, and they, but it's just the sport that they had more, the most repetition in. And Steph, from every breath thing that I've heard, is one of the best athletes of all time. You talk to Steve, Steve Kerr, Steve Kerr, Steve Kerr compares him to Nash, who you wouldn't think is a great athlete. They always said that about Nash.

Yeah, exactly. But then you see, like, I went on a golf course one time with Steph and Phil Mickelson, and Steph isn't as good as Phil Mickelson, but he was like staying with him on the golf course, and that takes a lot of bump. And he didn't, he only plays, he's a scratch golfer, but he's a scratch golfer when he barely plays. And I saw Steph play in a charity baseball game one time, and he was like, he was playing shortstop, but he like turned a double play, and I was like, oh, shit, he's so good.

But that's going into what I wanted. Larry Bird was like that, too. Larry Bird played. Yeah. He messed around on Indiana State and just played for the varsity baseball team. And he was playing first base. And he actually broke his thumb or his finger. And in shooting, he always said was like never the same after he broke his finger.

He was like, I was really good in Boston. But actually would have been better. My finger is like my touch is a little bit off. Like, all right. Well, you're still like one of the five best ever. I want to ask you a question, though. Like I know we didn't come on the pod to do this. But Bill, since we have a little,

have kids that are playing sports. Logan and I, Pre-Pod, were talking about these kids and how advanced they are now in basketball when he was watching a video, right? And I was saying that the training starts so early now. Like, it wasn't around and available to us when I was coming up. But what it makes kids do is really have to streamline their sport, and they have to pick a sport and get in that lane because I hate it. I hate it too. I really do. I hate it. And you have so many kids that don't get the experience of playing multiple sports and trying to figure out what they really love and, you know, just generally cross-training those muscles, which make you an overall better athlete. Everyone is so specific. You have to figure it out really early now.

Everyone, I remember talking to Alex Morgan and Abby Wanbeck about that, both of whom played multiple sports. I don't think Alex even started playing soccer full time until she was like 13 or 14. And they were always like, you got to play multiple things. But the way things are rigged now, I really wanted my daughter to play soccer and basketball. And I thought she could have been good at basketball. There was no way to do both. There was this moment like fourth grade, fifth grade, where you have to start playing club, you have to start doing the privates, and you really have to, there's this two-year window

where if you don't hit it, she's not going to happen. And the soccer at that point was pretty time-consuming. And it's like to do both and just be one of those families where you're just in the car going from point A to point B to point C all weekend. We didn't want to do that. And I don't really know a lot of people who try to play the two sports at the same time. I think it's too hard. I tried when I was like obviously not on that level, but I tried.

I played quarterback in high school, but it was also my love was basketball. And it's, there's always an interesting time where you have to adjust, right? Because your body is telling you to play a certain way during the fall. And then you have to reposition your mind to play a totally different type of sport. And I will push back on the on the fact that, like, like, I would like if I, you know, when I have a kid, I'd like to think that I'd like to have them that have that focus and to just try other shit, right? Like your love is obviously one sport and that's one of your best at.

But like I would like them to try maybe a baseball if they played football or a basketball if they played another sport like that, but have a focus. What do you guys think about that? Because you guys have had kids would do that. What do you think? Well, mine right now, they do that. So Dio is football focused, right? Gave up a year and a half of basketball, but it's now playing varsity for me.

me. And he's, he's going through what you're talking about. He's played two games. He's got up nine threes and he's over nine because he hasn't played basketball in so long, right? So like, he got to knock that rust off. My other one is just the opposite. He's a basketball-focused kid who happens to be good at football. We got lucky because those sports just, like, they kind of bump into each other seasonally. They're not the same season. And that's where it really, the problems become. When you're, when you're taking a natural sport like football, let's say, it's fall, and now you're putting seven on seven in the spring, winter season. And that's usually basketball season.

And you're making a kid pick between a club season of seven on seven and whether he wants to continue to play basketball, it gets a little dicey. Well, California's, I think my daughter would have played soccer and basketball, but there is no upside for it because soccer and basketball are the same season in California. That's tough. And it's like, so what's the upside? You're not allowed to do both. and if anything, I don't know, maybe basketball, softball would be the ones.

But it's funny because I think basketball and soccer are the most similar with the way you have to kind of see in the spacing and the passing and playing off other people. And some of the triangle stuff is similar. And the conditioning and the fact that, you know, there's a certain toughness that I think both sports have. And it's too bad that they're at the same time. Let's talk about Sun's Warriors. I was able to go to, I went to the game on Friday and Chase. And I have my opinions on that because, you know, from the warrior standpoint, but I want to get your opinion. I'm going to start with Roger real quick.

Rod, is this the next rivalry in the Western Conference? You know, we had one with the Warriors and the, in the Rockets. I think there's some seeds there where this can do some things. What do you think? I'll hold my opinion, but I want to hear it your, both of your opinions. I want to go with Roger first. What do you think? I mean, yeah, right now, it's.

It's a rivalry. I mean, you have two of the best teams in the league. You know, you have two styles, I think, that make for a fun game to watch because they're like, it's not like a heavy, a heavyweight match where you have a brawler and a boxer, right? And you're trying to draw this guy into punching with you. Like, they're both coming out. Like, let's go. We're ready to score it. Let's get up and down.

So aesthetically, it's a cool game to watch. And they're, you know, they're loaded. They have a lot of talent. I think they both sneakily hang their hat on defense. you wouldn't like to like the naked eye say, hey, these are great defensive teams. They're about their offense, but that's where their bread is buttered defensively.

And they're both really good offensively. So I do think you have a really good rivalry set up. Some of that's going to depend on what pieces are kept and so on and so forth, what that looks like moving into the future. But right now, for sure. It's a good one. Is there enough hate, like constructive hate yet Simmons for this to be like a really compelling rivalry or is it just seeds right now?

That would have been Warriors Lakers at the lake. Lakers were still alive. Warrior Suns has the DNA of early 90s where you had like those Portland Phoenix series and you had like the Warriors were in there at the TMC Warriors for a year. But really it was the Portland Phoenix had some really good battles during that,

during that stretch, right? And there was that fun Lakers team after Kareem retired and they went toe to toe with Portland. And there was just like it was wide open. It was up and down. But both teams could play defense a little bit too. And then you saw in the mid-2000s, really more with Dallas and Phoenix, who I think had the seeds for an awesome rivalry. And Phoenix just had, we don't need to tell Raja, but just really bad luck a couple years with the injuries, especially like losing Amari for that year.

I think that was the year it really could happen. But the Dallas Phoenix games in the Dirk Nash DNA of those games were really fun. And now this is what that reminds me of. It's like you just know it's going to be an entertaining game unless you have the scenario of the first son's game where Steph just sucked, right? And Steph he'll do that from time and time. He just sucks. And sometimes the Warriors can can battle back, but the Sun's played it. And it was just that game you could tell where it was going.

And then, of course, he lays a smackdown two, three days later. I like it. It's got star power. It's got dicks on both sides, right? Dramas can be a huge dick. Jay Crowder, not afraid of being a dick. You have the Aiton issue with the Warriors where sometimes it seems kind of insurmountable. Other times it seems like they can play them off the floor.

And I don't think either team is done yet from a roster standpoint. Simmons, Simmons, don't discount Chris Paul and Steph. There's something simmering there. That's all I'm going to say right now. There's something. Simmering. That thing was taken out of the oven and passed out to the customers already. What are you talking about?

I know, no. But like you, it's, I think in the, with us, we've seen it, right? But in the social consciousness, there's been evolutions of both of their games. Well, you know the context of that, right? Yeah. Yeah. That was the Warriors Cooper series. Yep.

That was Steph's initiation into NBA manhood. Chris, I went to the game seven and Chris fouled him, I would say 28 times in that game. He was just bully ball, rugbying him. And he put chest hair on Steph's chest. That was the series where Steph went through NBA puberty, basically. Well, that was the year, honestly. where Steph came of age and it was such a surprise because no one expected it.

I don't care what anybody says in hindsight. No one expected him to win that title that year. And we thought it was going to be what calves coming out, it was going to be calves. No, that was the year after. I'm talking about 14. That was when the Quippers beat the Warriors. Mark Jackson wearing the black suit to the last game.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That like, I like this series because I feel like that, me and Roger have talked about this. I like this. I like this iteration of the Western Conference because of that we're just kind of on the tail end of the super team era, right?

Where it's not super teams that are put together. It is teams built the more traditional way. And you see these two teams that are deep and you really don't know who can win. I put the edge to the Warriors right now just based off of experience. But when you look at the Sun's roster right now, and I don't want to get to Rajah when we talk about this,

when you look at the Sun's roster, they have a guy like Aiden, who is a great front court presence that the Warriors just don't have. Yeah, they have Draymond Green, but if he gets injured or if somebody gets injured, that front court, they have problems. It's not a very deep front court. And the sons have the perfect roster to play against a Warriors roster on paper. What do you think of that statement, Roger? Yeah, look, I don't think that Aiton, I mean, I do think he's a mismatch.

I don't think that the sons would commit to, like, just bully balling the hell out of, of Golden State. They can't. You know what I mean? Like I like it. He's going to get his point. I'm just saying the variance of like if somebody gets nicked up or something like that, then there's something that could,

Phoenix can beat the Warriors if there's somebody gets knicked. I think they could beat them anyway. I think this is one of those series where, I mean, I'm not going to pick Phoenix. Like I, it would be four three, right? Three, four. It's going to go back and forth.

And I think you hit the nail on the head. There's something I was going to say about Phoenix. You know, there are pieces, Mikhail Bridges, you know, defensively. They've got guys that are long, athletic, they'll guard, they're not afraid, they'll get in your face, they're physical. And that's always for me been kind of kryptonite at times for warriors, for Steph. You know, not all the time, but those are the type of things that get

to him, physical defenders with length that are just there all the time, right? And you've got a bunch of them with Phoenix that are interchangeable and could switch. So it would present problems on any given night for a Golden State. You know, Logan, you were talking about, is this the next rivalry. There's some stuff that shifted their, this rivalry's way in the West, right? Denver, the combo of they lose Murray and then they give Porter this extension and he's not even going to play this year. And he's not even, you can't even say he's a trade asset at this point. So they're kind of stuck with their team where the number two and number three guys and the team aren't even playing. So you cross them off, at least for this year. And then Dallas, they've never been

able to figure out the roster around Luca and, you know, whether Luca is in the right kind of shape and all that stuff. So you kind of push them to the side. Quagot gets her for the quippers. And then the Lakers go all in with this terrible Westbrook trade that's kind of crippled them as a contender. So you look around at the West and it's like, other than Utah. Oh, no. Uh-oh. Hold on. Don't make that face of me, Roger. No, no. Tell them, Raja, what's the rule of real ones? What's the real ones? There will be no rust slander. He came dangerously close, Logan. It wasn't slanderous. And almost. We don't. We don't. We He almost had Soshti back take him off.

He almost came, he almost broke the Cardinal Raj's sin, which is no Russell Westbrook slander on the pot. There's truth. There's truth in it right now. It's not funny. Go ahead. Yeah, go. Is it slander to calm a losing player for a half a decade? Is that a slander?

Oh, come on, man. What are you doing, man? You invite yourself on the real. You invite yourself on the real ones and then break the card to the rules. Listen, if you have a 44 wind ceiling with somebody who makes. $44 million a year? Does that make him a losing player? I don't know.

Here's what I will agree with. It has been a bad trade so far. I can agree. I concur. It's been a bad trade so far. You care about defense more than anyone on the planet. This team completely sacrificed defense. The reason they won the title in the bubble other than Davis on the Bronon and defense,

those are the three reasons. And they gave away one of them. Pretty great. I can't argue that. And Logan, they're going to blame Frank Vogel. It's his fault that Malik Mock and Wayne Ellington and Russell Westbrook aren't good on defense.

all right so yeah you're right but make your point because you had a good point you're on a on a roll right there with the teams and how this sets up for the road right sometimes this happens right sometimes the seas of the conference open up and yeah you have it in this case where the the warriors were able to reboot incredibly and they have assets to trade if they want they got clay coming back and you have the sons who you know they were able to pull off this Chris Paul thing and I don't know how he's still doing it at age 36, but he's doing it. And they have the foundation now

for at least a couple years. And I don't think anyone's on their level. I watch Mitchell destroy the Celtics the other night, right? And it's like, all right, if Mitchell's going to go up a level over the next three months, if he's going to become, like basically one of the top seven, eight players in the league,

then you would have to take Utah seriously. He's showing signs? I don't know if we're ready for it yet. I'm going to tell you one thing right now. Donovan Mitchell could be the greatest player on the planet. It doesn't matter against the Warriors. It doesn't matter against any team because you know what's going to happen in the postseason? You know what's going to happen if the Jazz play the Warriors in the postseason?

It's going to be Steph Curry. Hey, Rudy Gobert. Let's dance. Let's kick it real quick. I'm going to the cup and I'm going to shoot a three in your face. Or Jordan Poole is going to be like, hey, you know what? Rudy, come here. I want to have some time with this.

It doesn't matter, right? I don't think it would matter. And same thing if the jazz played against the sub. guns. Like, it's going to be the same thing with the pick and roll match. I don't even see the jazz. I don't think the jazz are going to, I don't think they're going to be a factor in the postseason. How did she do this to me? Now I'm defending the jazz, the team I don't even like. I'm just saying, I have my eye on the Mitchell thing. I think he's the one guy in either conference that could make a leap. What do you think, Raja? No, it was, we did a, what do we call the pod, Logan, where it was like the most important player on teams coming in.

It was a early pot. But anyway, Donovan Mitchell was one of my bill. Because if he does, it was the same thing you just said, if he will take that next step, right? Because what we're talking about is like, yeah, Logan, I agree with you on paper that that's a bad matchup having Rudy Goberra's big ass out there in space for either one of those teams with the style of play that they play. The one thing that counters that is if Donovan Mitchell takes it into like the next realm, where you just can't guard him, where it's 45. If that mid-2000s, Duane Wade. Yeah, you're just not, you can't do anything with that. That would even that playing field a little bit, right? I do want to say this about Golden

State. I agree with the C's opening in the Western Conference and all of that. And I think it's interesting both of these teams, but I give the edge to Golden State, have what a lot of teams in the NBA lack, which is great player development, just great behind the scenes player development in terms of skills, you know, and figuring out how to get people to buy into the way they want to play, right? And I guess that's got something to do with their player personnel department. Like, I'm going to go shopping for ingredients that really fit, right? To your point about about the Lakers bill, eh, not a great fit. Like, we're just, you know, like, so many teams do that, though. You take for granted that people are like really sitting behind closed doors saying, hey,

does this fit with that? And in a lot of instances, they're like, I got to take a swing at that talent. Golden State, Phoenix to a degree, they're shopping for certain pieces, certain items, and they developed the shit out of them. Chicago did that, by the way, Logan, and I didn't see the DeRosen thing when it happened, but they figured out like, hey, DeRosen, Lonzo, Zach, and Caruso, which I think was the wild card, but I think they thought

that was going to be Patrick Williams in that slot with Vosovich. We're going to be able to guard and we're going to be able to create shots at the end of games. And they were right. They're a really good fourth quarter team. We're going to talk about that next second. We'll keep you on for that. We're going to talk about that next segment about the Bulls. Put that in your pocket. Yeah, yeah. I just

Thank you. I'll take that. Put it in a pocket. But Roger made a point about player development with the Golden State Warriors. And that's a relatively new phenomenon with the Warriors. Because if you look back at their draft history, they didn't draft particularly well during that time. You know, they got the Jordan Bells. They got the Pat McCaws. They got these guys that were good but couldn't get developed. And the Warriors argument was, well, we're chasing titles, not developing for the next generation.

So they revamped their player development team. And this happened when Steph got injured and when Kevin left. It's not a coincidence that that's happened. You got a guy like Jordan Poole who I had a little faith, but I bought very low on Jordan pool when he got drafted. Then you get like Pascual and you get all these other guys that are playing well. Now you get a Juan Descano Anderson basically out of your G League that you didn't know that you were going to get. And they've gotten some pieces.

The reason why I would put the slight edge over Golden State is because they're playing well right now and they have two pieces that are coming in the fold. I don't know what Wise was going to be, but everything I've heard about Clay Thompson, and I'm sure Simmons, you've heard some things too. Everything I've heard about Clay is he's fucking bawling in these scrimmages right now. He is, there's no question of how good he's going to be. The question is, is he going to be able to sustain how good he is with his health? Because he's had two debilitating injuries.

But they got some dudes coming onto their roster. Now, their front court needs to be shored up, but I have an edge to the goal to stay warriors right now. Are you on that plane on the same plane right now, Simmons? I have a couple concerns. One is that there's only 240 minutes in a basketball game, and they have a lot of dudes. So Clay comes back. How does that affect Jordan Poole?

So he can play as much? Is he going to be able to be as good as he's been the last, like, basically season and a half if it's 15 minutes instead of 27? How does that affect Wiggins? Who's playing crunch time? I still feel like they need to improve the Looney's, spot for me to feel great about them against the sons. I said that last week.

I think Aiton's a problem for them, you know, and there's a malleability they have that I don't think the sons have, but the sons you kind of know, all right, we know who's going to be out there in the fourth quarter for better worse. The warriors have the ability they can go small, they can go big. But I don't love their big lineup that much. And that was why I was mentioned in Miles Turner last week. It seems like Indiana is probably more likely to trades a bonus. But can they improve the loony spot?

Do you use Wiseman to improve the loonies? looming spot, or do you hope Wiseman becomes the improvement? That's what I need to see with them. I'm going to push it to Roz in a second, but I think that Wiseman is going to be good long term. I don't think they're going to, I don't think right at this very moment that they're going to trade him, but I think that the best case scenario for him is 10 and 10 this year. Like, if he can do that, that's a win.

10 and 10? That would be a miracle. I don't think, like, or he needs to get 10 rebounds. He needs to block shots. He needs to be the ultimate defender of the season. It doesn't fuck what you see from Lamello Ball. Fuck what you see from all the rookies in your class. We need you to play a role this season.

And I think he's going to do that. We'll see, but we haven't seen enough. What do you think about that, Raz? Do you think that Wiseman can be that X factor or do they need to go out? Because I don't think a trade is going to happen. I think it'll be a buyout market type thing. But I think Wiseman has to play a role. I don't have a great answer for that.

So let me just, this is, I do find something really fascinating about what Bill said in the conversation. coming into this year of your Golden State, and you're sitting around in that front office and you're chopping it up, you're not sure what the window looks like. You don't. Like everyone says they're going to come out and win, but you don't really know.

Like, Clay's still out. You know, last year ended the way it did. And so you'd probably be reluctant to give up pieces like James Wiseman because, you know, that's your future. And you don't know the, you know, you had all those heavyweights in the Western Conference. To Bill's point, the Cs hadn't parted yet.

And now they fucking part, right? And you're sitting there saying, oh, shit, windows right now again. And so what's interesting to me is, does that, like, motivate you to maybe move a James Wiseman for something? Because he's not going to be the difference maker this year. I'm just going to say that.

Like, he's not. And so, like, that's what I find interesting about. Logan has a 10 and 10. I said the best case to Derek, but the thing with, I said that's this, I think that's the best he can do. I don't know.

I heard it. I heard it. I heard of the 10 and 10 guy. Anyway, anyway, anyway. Wait, can I throw an old NBA example at you? part of the thing with keeping these assets, like, yeah, we're going to keep these guys and we're next generation, we're building.

So we've seen this before. We saw this with Portland in the early 2000s with Jermaine O'Neill, right? Where they had high school kid. I think they traded for him. Somebody else, no, they drafted him. And it's cool. It's like, all right, he's basically going to college with us.

Now, that was a pretty, hilarious college to go to in retrospect, the early 2000s Portland College. Would have been a fun college. Yeah. You really definitely learned some life lessons in that college. But by the time he was ready to actually start playing, he was also ready for a giant contract. And if you remember, they end up trading him to Indiana and then he becomes who he is in Indiana.

But I think it's hard when you have these assets. They're not playing a lot, but they're also going to start hitting that rookie extension territory. And it's like, all right, so are we going to pay James Wiseman $22 million a year, a year from now, and we don't even know if he can play 22 minutes a game? I push back on that. I think that the person you have to worry about right now is not a James Wiseman. I'd say it might be a Jordan Poole

who was not expected to be playing this good at this point and is going to be up for an extension very soon. And it's going to probably want some bread, you know? He's the unexpected dude, right? Where they're probably going to put him, you know, everybody that I talk to around the organization says that, hey, he's probably a six-man. you know, he's probably the six-man dude

and he's playing right now as a starter because he has to. That's something that you would have to look at. I don't think that they would trade wise to this. I don't think that they would trade wise to look at. Damn right. If I'm playing 15 minutes a game, can I make $20 million a year? Right.

I don't think that they're going to trade Wiseman this season just for the simple fact that you would have to trade another guy for him and they're better than expected. Why would you want to trade and mess up the roster nucleus just to get a piece for this season that has not played with them? You know, And that offense is hard to get to. The reason why they're all vibes and stuff is because they all know each other.

They don't do meet season trades like that. The Warriors don't. So I don't think that they're going to go as is. And I think a more likely option, and I could be wrong. And I'm not reporting anything because, you know, Sim is getting me and getting in the corner right now. But I think just looking at things, I think a buyout, getting somebody on a buyout market is more of an option this season than trading for a front court guy.

No, look, it makes more. It makes more sense if you can get a good piece in the bio, right? You get your cake and eat it too. You get something that helps and you whatever. I just, I think the conversation was probably dead at the start of the season. And I think internally when you're, you know, when you're an organization trying to, trying to figure out every possible alternative, you at least have to have the conversation again once your window opens, right? Because when windows open, I mean, you have to strike, not saying that they have to make the trade.

The most interesting thing to me with just talking trades with them is the evolution of Wiggins as an asset for them, right? Because you would have thought that was the contract that basically took to dump D-Low and get this lottery pick that they had their fingers crossed on. And now Wiggins, I think, is a valuable two-way guy. And I think has hit most of the potential we would have guessed for him, right? He's pretty steady, 17 to 20 a game. He's a good two-way player.

I think he plays harder, you know, game in, game out than maybe he has at any point in his career. And it's like, yeah, he makes $32 million, whatever it is, but he's a guy who can play in a playoff series. You know, if anything, the thing that worries me you saw in the playing games last year is sometimes he gets a little too rational confidence, a little, I got this where it's like, just guard the other guy's best player and hit some threes. But the question for me is you could, you could really get somebody good if you took Wiggins now with one or two of your assets. And I don't know if I, to me, it's like, I don't know if they would be too delighted about Traded Wiggins at this point because I think he does a lot of stuff for them. Yeah.

Don't take this for granted. There was a shift when he dunked all over Carl Anthony Town. There was a shift in just him. And you know that, Roger, you know this being in the league for a long time where you just get one play that goes your way. Doesn't matter how successful or bad you've been, it could change the course of a lot of shit in your career or in that season. I was in the building. It was, I haven't seen a dunk like that in covering the league, covering the team for a long time. There was a shift in how the Warriors fans thought of him and how his, I don't know and

to say necessarily his teammates, but how he was perceived around that organization, man. There was, there was something there. I want to talk about real quick before we, by the way, he's, he's not old. He's not old. He's not. I think he's younger than Janus, which I think most people wouldn't guess. I would not have guessed that. Let me just say something before you move on, Logan.

Because when he got traded, remember, we covered that we got traded. It's going to be a very good fit for him and for their team. And why I thought it would be a good fit for him is I talk about this all the time. When you go to unstable situations, and the priorities always aren't in the right place. And you don't have great examples as to what a pro in that 3-&D role looks like. And someone's not communicating that to you every game. You know, you could just be out there thinking the NBA is something, you know, that's just really cool. And I get to play in it and I get all the fame and whatever.

But when it comes down to winning and you hit an organization where that's what it's about and everything they do is geared towards it and the singular focuses on winning, like he was going to do well in that. And it helps people because there's some direction. And I thought it was just going to be a good fit. And I'm glad for him and for his career that it has been because that's what he was missing. He was missing some stability. And that's the thing with the, when there were rumors about it could this be a Ben Simmons location? You think like it's so hard to create a culture in basketball.

Raja saw it first time with Nash. Nash is like a one-man culture. Like that 2010 Sun's team that everybody had kind of written off. The Nash culture, the same thing with Duncan in the early 2010s with that Spurs team. You have the foundation. It's pretty easy to move guys into that who could go either way. And Wiggins was an either way guy. You know, and I think that's why when you think about people that could trade for,

there are guys who were just on the wrong teams. Like everyone on Sacramento to me is somebody I'd be trying to get. Because as soon as you pull them out of whatever the hell is going on over there and you put them in a real situation, I don't know what the upside of those guys would be. You know, same thing for Indiana right now. I think Indiana's been unhappy for a couple years. You're pulling a couple people out of that situation.

Who knows? But I'm with Rajah Wiggins easily could have gone the other way. And we wouldn't have called him a bus because he was always a 12. 20 points a game guy, but we would have said it was a wager. Underachiever wasted talent, right? It's like, oh, man, too bad. That guy had all the tools. He just didn't have it in his head.

Simmons, I'm a prediction right now. Will Chris Paul be healthy enough for them to realize their destiny? The son's a real estate. So that's a great question because a lot of miles put on him last year. You think those playoff rounds, which you saw it with the Lakers last year, you know, when you go the extra two months and you're playing those. Those finals games, those count as like two games. Raj, you've been in games like that.

Those are not- Those are not-48-minute games. Those are like two games packed into a game and everything's so physical and everything's so tense. Like that takes something out of you. And Chris is old. He's already what he was doing last year we'd never seen from that position at that age, you know, other than Nash. I got a stat for you. He's averaging 32.3 minutes per game. That is the most since his last year in Houston.

I'm just saying it's early, but you don't want to put miles on it. You don't have to put Miles on him this early in the season, right? Like, he's a guy that you would, honestly, I'd put Chris Paul at like 25 minutes if I could. Just like, I don't care about, I'll see you fully healthy in April and let's go get this title, right? There was something weird going on with them, though. I think the Sarver thing, I think they put it on the basketball court, and that winning streak ended up actually meeting something to them. And I just think they approached it differently. What do you think, Roger?

That's an interesting way to look at it. Because I was going to give the same stat, Logan, about his minutes per game. And one of the things we talked about coming into this season was finding minutes from someone else that could get Chris Paul off the floor for those seven minutes that you're talking about, Logan, that really means something at the end of the season. And whether it's a blown tire at the end in terms of an injury, or if it's just general fatigue, like you can't afford that if you're the sons.

Like you, you know, I almost feel like, Bill, it's a great point. Maybe that Sarver thing just got them, you know, galvanized and chasing and focused on something.

But I think that you want to be hitting the stride that they hit. And it was part of what happened to us, you know, when we went 17 wins in a row twice. We were so hot, so early. And we had hit that stride when it didn't mean shit, you know,

and that's the stride you want to be hitting later in the season, man. You don't want to be burning the candle now. Yeah, for sure. We'll see what happens, man. It's funny because in the beginning of the season, me and Rosa were like, Western Conference finals, Lakers, Warriors, Lakers, Warriors, is this what we wanted, right? I don't even know if that's going to be a 1-8 matchup

at best. I don't even know. You guys were stiff and glue. I don't know. What were you guys seeing? We wanted. What are you seen in that Lakers team? Here's a thing. Here's a thing. You know, I'm from the Bay. We've never had a Warriors, Lakers thing.

We've never had a real rival. in basketball like that where they were both good at the same time. I wanted that for nostalgia. I wanted to go back and forth from L.A. to the Bay for this specific thing. And Roger just loves Russ.

And so, you know, I don't know. I really just wanted this to happen. I love Russ and I love LeBron. I think AD is great, like, as a talent and his skill set. I can't say that I necessarily love him the way I love the other ones. But so what I was thinking, Bill, was, you know, you give me those three.

in a seven-game series. In a video game? Provided they could play some defense. See, this is what I didn't anticipate. I just couldn't have, and maybe I should have, right? This is me not doing a great job with my job. I can't believe you didn't see this. You of all people.

You know defense matters. No, no, no. I didn't see them being that terrible defensively. Like, I didn't see that. Now, I know that if you're that bad, you can't win, but I just really didn't see them being that bad. And I thought if you had that high-end talent, you know, offensively with those three,

I don't bet against LeBron. You put him with AD in a seven-game series. I'm going to roll the dice. But they're just way worse defensively than I thought they were going to be. I think they really overreacted to what happened last playoffs where they're up to 1 against the Suns.

We all thought they were going to beat the Suns. Davis gets hurt. It flips. And then it's like panic time. And it's kind of weird in retrospect. Listen, I'm not even going to, I'm not going to say I knew Caruso was that good. You talked to some of the nerds.

and they're like, yeah, they were literally all of these defensive stats about his one-on-one defense, his, the plus minus when he was in different lineups, all that stuff. I never thought he was as valuable as it turned out that he is. I mean, he's been unleashed on this Bulls team where, and then the combo, like, they lose Danny Green. They lose him. Who is it, who is the other? Oh, and then the KCP. And I always thought Kuzma, you know, who was always playing out of position for them because he was always the same position as LeBron. but at least he gave a shit on defense.

You know, they have guys now who don't even know what they're doing defensively. You know, hey, that Buddy Hill bullshit shot over LeBron was so, it was so gangst. It was just so, did you see that? Did you see the triple overtime game when...

Oh, that game was great. Oh, that buddy, when Buddy Hill just sees, he just looks at LeBron, he just sizes them up, throws some bullshit up and it goes in. I think it was the tie to game or to take the lead. It was,

and he had already hit it like a deep three from the Lakers logo. that was just, it was beautiful. It was poetic. It was, it was awesome. It was all that. Adande, Adonde was on my pot a couple months ago and he was saying how, he thought the bubble title that the Lakers won, where you had all this time, right, to just get in shape for a 10-week thing was actually so perfect for LeBron, right, where you don't have the miles from the regular, I thought it was a great point. You don't have the miles from the regular season. You get to rest. You get to work on your body

and basically do this 10-week sprint. And LeBron was saying that was the hardest title. had to win. I disagree. I would say he was uniquely equipped to succeed in the bubble from how much care and time he puts into his body and the conditioning. I think at the age he's at, and this goes for Chris Paul, too, like to play 100 games over eight months is really hard to stay healthy. I think if they had a, and this goes back to my super team argument, right? Like you put some, we're seeing this in Brooklyn, too, with the two dudes who are really, really good. It was the Popovich philosophy. Like, You used to see that towards a tail end to Tim Duncan's era where they would just, let's just say it, they would just throw games. And they would play fucking Duncan 25 minutes a game because they had the infrastructure to be able to do that.

I wish LeBron could just play like, fuck it, 25 minutes a game. Like, all parties would be great. Just play them 25 minutes a game until the postseason and then put them all out. And now they can't do it because of the team that's around him. Yeah. Yeah. I don't like, I want to, but I want to talk to you about the Bulls real quick. Wait, before you do that, can I ask Roger one thing?

Go ahead. Poor Nash. It's not even a question. Poor Nash. His third best player is Marcus Aldrich. He's kind of be like, what happened? He was going to coach this offensive super team and Kyrie. Now he's got James Packed on an extra 20 Hardin.

He's got Durant playing the best ball of his life, just getting wasted on this team. Washed up Blake Griffin. This team is just a bunch of minimum dudes with Durant and Hardin. It's such a bummer. It's such a waste. Do you think we're at the tail end of that? Do you think we're at the tail end of that super team thing? Wait, let's get Roger's point.

Let's get Roger's point. Let's see what he thinks about his friend real quick. And then we'll go to that. I'm going to ask, do you remember what I said about my friend earlier, earlier when we talked about the nets? Do you remember what I said? I feel sorry for him. Like, I just feel bad.

I remember talking to him, Bill. Do you remember when you called me about coming on board, you on the pod? And I told you at the time what I was mulling over. And we had talked about, I was in conversation. with Steve about going with him, right? And we, his excitement level was so high. Like the things and the cool stuff he wanted to do philosophically, you know, we kind of talked about the way he was going to approach it and,

and what type of coach he'd be and, you know, offensively and defensively. Like, the excitement was really cool to hear coming out of his voice. And then I saw him on TV the other day and I looked at his face. And it's my guy. And I know he's a little older than me. But Bill, he looked, he looked like it would. He looked old. He looked like the stress was starting to, like, get to him.

And I can't imagine how it wouldn't. Like, that's, it went from, I don't know, sugar to shit. Like, what it, to use a, you know, I don't know. Like, you just sit in there thinking you had all this at your disposal and it was supposed to be this great ride. And then the match pulled out from under you for various reasons. We need a Nash, we need a Nash basketball exorcism. I don't know what he did.

I mean, he's this nice Canadian guy. What did he do the basketball guys? He left Manhattan. Beach is what he did. That's what he did. Yeah, but he went to go. He had to rent Kyrie and they knew there was some trade coming. He probably had an inkling of that Hardin was a possibility. But to have a team in this day and age built around a big three where one of the three

has just now been wiped out, good luck there. No, no, there goes a question, yeah. Well, you mentioned the super team era. I would say the talent in the league right now is the highest it's been since the early 90s. I have actually went through and looked at like, if you make like just, a top 40 list of players. Because they always talked about, well, the Sixers aren't trading Ben Simmons

unless they get one of the top 30 guys. If you actually make the list of the 30 guys, 40 guys, 50 guys, this league is fucking loaded right now. And you can't win with, like whatever the 2013-14 heat team where Joaqu Noah was the first team All-N-Ba Center in one of those years

and Carmelo was like the third best player in the league, the talent is so much deeper now. You would have no chance of making the finals with that 2014 Heat team now, where you had LeBron and his prime, but you had Wade basically playing hurt and Bosch and nobody else. That team's not getting the finals these days, which is basically what Brooklyn's put together.

You're playing the team like Chicago that has two guys at the end of the game. There we go. That know what they're doing. And they have spacing, and they can guard the best player on the other team, and they have a really good coach. And it's like,

you're not just slapping together a two-man team with minimum guys and beating that team. I'm glad you said that. I'm glad he said it. Yeah, let's get into it. We had this pre-pod argument. Go.

Yeah, we had a prepod argument. Like, I love the Bulls. And our colleague, Sirius Sohi, was on this, like back in July. She saw this way back in July that this was going to happen. So kudos to her. And but I didn't, I remember, like, calling her and being like, what the fuck are you talking about? Like, what do you mean this is the team that could be a championship contender? And the reason why is because I'm of the.

the super team mind. I'm still in that era where it's like, yo, you can't win unless you have a top five person on your roster. And while that still may be true, I just saw this team, as Rosal put in our prepot meeting, a team of high-end number twos, right, where you have a Demard de Rosen, who's a really, really, really, really good dude, really, really, really, really good players. Is he honest? No, but he's a star. Do you have Busevich, who was a number one, right? You have Alonzo ball who wasn't a number one immediately out of the gate. Love Lonzo. But you see them go toe to toe with the nets.

And it's like, they're not fucking scared of shit, right? Raja, what do you think of this Bulls team? You were chopping at the bit. What do you think of this Bulls team right now? Yeah, first of all, I put more respect. Like, DeMarsan is a boss. Always has been a boss. Now, like, in terms of being able to get buckets, like he gets buckets.

Like, that's certified. I think he's gone up a level from a Mexican stand. standpoint. There's no question. He definitely has. And I attribute some of that to spend the time in San Antonio with Pop and company, right? Like, Zach Levine was a guy who I thought was burgeoning on

on stardom, but I didn't know if he was like the guy on a championship team, right? Like, we're going to have you and then we're going to have, you know, guys that aren't necessarily. But if you put him with someone like him, Damar de Rosen, like where we both can get 25, 26

a night, I think you're in really good shape. Lanzo and Alex Caruso are two of the best defensive guards in the league. Yep. Those dudes sit down and lock up. Like, Lonzo has his haters. I'm not one of them. But those two dudes will sit down and guard your dudes who go to work, right? And they don't need the ball.

They don't need the ball. We'll sit over there and we'll shoot. We'll get ours in transition, what have you. And then you have two dudes in DeRosen and Levine and Vucevich that can get buckets. Like, you give him the ball. And Vouch hasn't even gone going yet.

He hasn't. He hasn't. playing great. I mean, he's, he's made the most sacrifice out of all of those guys from a shots giving up perspective and slippage of a field goal percentage. But he'll figure it out, and they'll figure it out around him. The rest of their team, Bill, are the guys that I think you just spoke about a second ago, where the league has really grown. Like, at one point, you'd have me out there who's going to play some D and shoot threes. They have guys that get buckets and can do a lot of things. There's versatility around the fringes of that. Like, Their ceiling, their floor is higher because of the pieces they have around the ones we just talked about.

I really like the Bulls. And who was going to beat them? Well, you think about what Raja had in the mid-2000s, right? If you had one injury, look at that Sun's team you had. We're done. Like Jaylen was playing for that team. He was, at the last rights of his career, he had Marcus Banks. You actually had to rely on.

You had dudes you're throwing out there who I think would be like 14, 15th men now. I'm looking at the Fandah odds. I think this is nuts. Brooklyn is plus 260 to win the title. Milwaukee is plus 700, 7 to 1. And I would pick Milwaukee if I had to pick anybody. Miami's 12 to 1. Philly's 24 to 1.

Denver's 30 to 1 to win the title. And to me, it's like, that team could, I would not want to see that team in a playoff series. I think they have already figured out the Zach and DeRosen. Like those guys, there's no ego at all with those guys. I haven't seen it in the games I've watched where it's all right. It's not like, hey, man, I was hot.

And then you took those two shots. Like, both of them kind of know how to fit in with each other, which I think is really unusual. And the Lanzo's really fun to play with. I just think that team's good. I think they have as good of a chance to make the finals as any one of these. I do too. And I think they have another thing going for them.

I should have talked about it before. They're all on the same page in terms of the way they're perceived in the league. Like, those are dudes who still have. something to prove to people for one reason or another, right? Chips on your shoulder. And the coach as well, Billy Donovan, I think probably approaches his messaging the same way. Like, listen, no one, no one gives us a chance to do shit. Like, here's what they said about you, Zach. Here was the knock on you, DeMar. Here, look, Lonzo, you know, everyone's got this organic kind of chip on their shoulder and they put it all together and it's unselfish, including the coach.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so this is my pause on this and I told Roger this. The Bulls team look, and I'm not talking about talent-wise, I'm just talking about where they stand in the Eastern Conference and where they stand. They remind me of those Tibido Bulls teams with the Derek Roses and the young Jimmy Butler's and the Todd Gippins where they're really good, really deep team, but they don't have a dude,

and you make the argument with Derek Rose, but they don't have a dude like a Yonis on the team where you know you're going to give them the ball. They don't have a top-flight person to do that. So it seems like, you know, they're going to be just good enough to get to the Eastern Conference finals and lose to a team with a generational star. Simmons, talk me out of that right now.

I disagree completely. So here's what I judge this stuff by, especially like first 25 games. Like, do I like the shots you're getting? Can you get stops? I really like the shots the Bulls get. If you really watch them carefully, the fourth quarter,

DeRosen gets great shots. Zach can either create a good shot for himself or get a shot for somebody else. It's always like somebody's wide open or it's like if they missed a shot, it was because the guy just missed a wide open three or he missed like a 10 footer. You look at some of these other teams and, you know, like I look up my Celtics when things really slow down and it's like, uh-oh, here comes Tadem between the legs 20 times, pull up 25-footer, or here's Schrooter like just barreling into the paint or here's Jalen from corner three.

Like we don't have a lot of options. It's hard for us to score when the game slows down. I don't think it's hard for the Bulls to score when the game slows down. the game slows down. And then the Lonzo piece, they just get like 8, 10 transition points a game that Lonzo brings you. Just rebound, flick of the 70 foot pass, flick of the wrist, or just hockey assist. People don't know what that does to a team, Bill.

If you haven't played with someone like that, you don't know the cumulative effect that it has. Like, it is so infectious that, that, hey, man, I'm just going to give you this. Go ahead, take that. I'm in advance it. Go get that layout. Right. I don't think they have one guy that can get you a bucket. They got two.

They got two and a third because when Booge figures, they have three dudes who can get you a bucket. Now, do we have 2019 Raptors vibes here where we're just like, you know, that we're going to not know until we know? Yeah, okay. 100%. So two things.

They need Williams to come back. They said he's out for the season, but I think they meant out for the season probably April. But if he can come back for the point, playoffs and they at least, I'm just thinking like, how'd he be Brooklyn? How'd he be Milwaukee? They need guys to throw it to rant. Now, does it even matter with Durant?

He's getting at 35 anyway? Maybe it doesn't. And then the Milwaukee thing, like, Janus is the best player in the league. He's been the best player in the league for a couple years. And could he just athletically destroy them? I'm pushing back on that. I think it's Kevin still. But go ahead. I'm just going to say, I think it's Kevin.

Janus is the best player in the league a little bit. That's fine. Go ahead. he's the best two-way player not just this year but in the last few years you'd have to go back to LeBron and like 2013 on Miami to a guy who makes this much of an impact on both sides and his team still almost lost to Kevin

last year in the playoffs five and Kevin went almost this is 2021 Janus you can't the evolution of him over the last eight months has to be accounted for he's a different guy than he was eight months ago. I'm a full believer. I think he's got it. He figured it out. I, for sure. Do you think Milwaukee is the team to beat in the Eastern Conference right now? Is that the one that the boy, it has to go through Milwaukee to get to the finals?

Like, okay. Because they're better than they were last year. And the Yonnes piece, you know, he's at the peak of his powers. It's no different than, I don't know, Duncan in 2003 or LeBron in 2013. Like, this is like a once a decade. athlete at the peak of his powers who has figured out a lot of the chest stuff with basketball. I still think it goes through that. What do you think, Raja? No, it's definitely going through Milwaukee. I mean, without- It has to. Yeah, it's not even a question. Without, without Kyrie, it's not even question. Yeah. Who's winning the title? Way too early right now. Who's winning the title? Way too early right now. But who's winning it? December pick right now? Because I don't know

when we're going to get you right now. I don't think Brooklyn can get there unless they figure out the Kyrie thing. Either turn them into an asset or bring them back. But if that's just a loss, asset, you can't recover from that. It's like, like, Rajah had that in 06. It's like, oh, we can win without Amari. No, you can't. You're not actually winning the finals. Sorry, Rob.

Like, one of your two best players. No. And you fought and you got there and it was close. But ultimately, like, it fucking sucks not to have one of your three best players. It's just a fact. Teams don't win titles without one of their three best guys. So you got Milwaukee? I think it's Milwaukee.

I like Chicago more than Miami, personally. Okay. Who you got, Rob. The real two, December, pick way too early pick. Win the chip? Oh, you won at West too? I would say I had Milwaukee Phoenix before the season,

and I'm sticking with that, even though wavering a little Golden State versus Phoenix, but I'm going to stick with what I did. I'm going to go, I'm going to go, because this is just what I want, and it's just a bias here, you know, and it'll be good for the ringer in the rules. Don't say the Lakers. Don't you dare. Don't you say the Lakers? No.

It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. It's going to be Brooklyn Gold Estate. Oh, my God. He said it. That's what I want. It's what I want. It's okay. Go ahead. Rob, I'm giving Roger real quick a chance to amend his pick because we both picked the Lakers to come out of the Western Conference. Terrible. As you know, it was terrible.

I'm giving you an opportunity to amend your pick right now, Ra. Who you got, Ra? Yeah, right now I will take that. I think I said Milwaukee from the jump, right? We were always on Milwaukee to represent the Eastern Conference. I thought other than L.A., Phoenix would be the team that I would pick coming in. But what I've seen from Golden State. Yes.

And if Clay is back and Clay is moving well, that's going to be, Dan, I'm telling you, there's going to be a tough one. I'm going to take Golden State. So I'll take Milwaukee Golden State. Take right now who you got. Who you got? Milwaukee. I have Milwaukee, too.

I think Golden State's probably a safer pick. I'm going to stick with my pick just because I hate changing my pick 20 times. But I think it's Milwaukee in Chicago. I think it's Golden State Phoenix. I think that's our final four. and Brooklyn, if they can somehow figure out how to leverage Kyrie into a different asset that can help these guys, then that that's the wild card, at least in the east. I don't see the Miami thing, though.

I can't get as excited about it as some other people. Maybe I need to watch them more, but I just don't think they're on the level of some of these other teams. They came out of the gates, they came out of the gates hot. They're going to, you know what you're going to get on Miami, Bill. Like, you know that. They're going to be solid. they're going to be, you know, they're going to share a hell at a ball. They're going to defend, but I think there's a ceiling on that, too.

They need too many breaks to get to the finals. They need too many breaks to happen for them. And it's not because they're not tough and good in a Pat Riley system, but I don't see Miami either. Hey, guys, don't sleep on the Celtics. Best net rating after the first five games, like one of the best net ratings in the league. I don't believe this. I don't believe this stuff. Simmons, we're going to have you and Jackie Mac on for our Celtics Beluza in a few weeks.

That'll be the lowest rated podcast you have. I watch the Warriors and the Bulls more than I watch the Celtics at this point. We're going to talk about that in depth, so we will see you back for that one. This has been another edition of Real Ones, Monday Real Ones, with me, Ra. Thanks Simmons for coming on, though. You can catch us every Monday and Thursday. But in the meantime, make sure you check out mismatch. Make sure you check out group chat.

Make sure you check out the answer with Sirits Sohi, who has been talking about the Chicago Bulls. make sure you check out R2C2 with who Roger Bello legend The Crescent Clown C-C-Sabathe Wow Make sure you check out Black Girl's songbook With Who Roger Bell So much propaganda

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