The Ringer NBA Show - The Current State of LeBron With the Lakers | Real Ones

Episode Date: February 5, 2024

Logan and Howard react to LeBron ruffling some feathers in New York this weekend, then ponder what the future could hold for the aging superstar and whether or not he will remain a Laker after this season (02:00). Later, the guys answer some mailbag questions (44:00). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Logan Murdock and Howard Beck Producers: Jonathan Kermah and Stefan Anderson Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's up everybody? It's Austin Rivers from Offguard, and I've got some exciting news. Offguard hosted by me and my guy Pasha Giggi is officially moving to our own podcast feed. We are now dropping two shows every week. Me and Pasha go way back and talk so much hoops already that we figured it was time to fire up the mics and let you in on these conversations. Every week, Pasha and myself will hit on the biggest stories happening around the league. Tap into the show twice a week on our new Offguard feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. What's popping? Real ones Logan Murdoch here. No Raj today. I am here because it is motherfucking Mondays.

High above New York City with the one and only Howard motherfucking Beck. How are you Howard? It's good to see you. I'm in person. This is an historical event. How are you doing? Historic. It should be like a national holiday or something. We're in the same room, in the same building, in the same city, as you say, high above New York, high above the East River and the harbor. Yeah. We are live. from Spotify studios in New York. This is pretty cool. This is a pretty cool moment for real ones. And I'm happy to share this with you, Howard.

I don't know what else to say. This is pretty cool. I'm kind of speechless right now. We hadn't even seen each other in person since I got the job, right? I know. So this is great. Why can't we get Raja here? Raja, get out of Florida.

Get out, like, come to civilization to join us here in New York. Pull up to New York, man. We got producer Stefan in the flesh. Shout out to Valdas, the State. We're out here in New York. streets, you know what I mean, VSU in the building? Okay, anyways. Valdosta State. That's the first shout out in history to Valda State. Actually, second, because I did a story with another Valdosta State student by the name of Waleh, and he shouted out rapping at Foster Hall

and freestyle in there. So, second one on the ringer airways, we're here. Anyway, we're in New York, and over the weekend, LeBron James was also in New York. And he called was quite a stir. And I kind of want to talk through this because it seems like, and this is something that, you know, we've seen throughout his career. He brought like the first subliminal tweet to Los Angeles of his career, right? It was all cool and it was chill. He was signing so many deals. Now he has a player option coming up next year. And now he's all of a sudden being coy about his future once again. How was this playing right now, Howard? And is this going to go the way LeBron thinks he do because there's a couple of things at play here for me with the,

you know, with the Laker fan base and just the Laker franchise as a whole. And I've been talking through this in my head for the last two days. But I think that I don't know if he can do this, the same tactics that he does for control that he did or tried to do in Miami and definitely got away with in Cleveland. I don't know how that's going to play in a franchise like Los Angeles where it's a say it's the franchise with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar with Magic Johnson, with Kobe Bryant. and he's also a guy that hasn't won in the way that was promised when he got there. He's LeBron James on one end, but he's also a member of a Lakers organization that has

had players who have way better individual successes in that uniform. Do you think that this is going to play the way he thinks it's going to play with this control-type tactic in the normal LeBron type way? See, I think it's less about whether LeBron can have the same impact on the Lakers and that franchise, given all of its history and all of its luminaries versus the other teams he's been with. I think it's less about that and more about this is LeBron at age 39 and counting as opposed to LeBron at age 28 or 32 even, where when he did the passive aggressive stuff, especially in Cleveland, like Miami, I don't remember how much passive aggressive stuff he actually. You can't mess with Pat Riley in his culture, right? Sure. You can try, but it's ultimately Pat Riley's show.

Cleveland, he certainly flexes muscles a lot, and he certainly said and did and posted and hinted at and all these other things to try to make them uncomfortable at times when LeBron thought the roster was not up to snuff. By the way, he was almost always right about that. With the Lakers, I think it's more just about the fact that, like, he's 39. And so if he's making either quietly, subtly, not so subtly, noises about the state of things. One, there's only so many that they can

do. But two, they're not in a position where they're going to want to, we saw this a year ago. They don't want to mortgage the future, right? How reluctant were they? All that time when we were like, they've got to get rid of Westbrook. They've got to trade Westbrook and get more pieces back. They need. They've got all these other needs. Trade Westbrook and the two future firsts, if you have to to get X, Y, and Z. And it was always, no, no, no, no, no. They don't want to do that. that's their ticket to their post-Lebron future. They can't afford it. And then they eventually did give up one of those picks in all the moves that they made last

February. And they were better off for it. Not good enough right now, but they were better off for it. And they have, I think, one movable pick right now, but when they get to the summer, they're going to have, like, I think, two, three more because of the way that the NBA's rules work on future picks. But they don't want to have to give up too much of the future because they're the team that has LeBron the closest to the end. Remember, even Cleveland the last time through,

not because of his age, but because they weren't sure if he was staying. They didn't want to give up like that Nets pick that became the eighth pick, which became Colin Sexton, but they didn't, the Cavs did not want to trade that pick to get LeBron immediate help because they're like, well, you might leave tomorrow. And in the Lakers case, it's, well, you might retire tomorrow, or he could leave as a free agent this summer. And yeah, given the opportunity to like, clarify things the other day. Was it McMannerman who asked him? I believe so, yeah. And LeBron's like, yeah, we'll talk about that some other time. You could reassure people if you want to, but yeah, this is the time of year, February, coming up on the trade deadline, when LeBron's not going to

reassure you of anything. Yeah. He's going to make you nervous as hell. By the way, again, I kind of like it. He should. Yeah. The organization's obligated to get you as much help as you can to win championships. What do you think he gains from being coy all of a sudden, right? Because he, like, I think ever since his first, maybe his first few years in Cleveland, I don't think that there has been a sure bet that he is going to stay in a place. Like I see, I don't see him, I don't necessarily see him leaving Los Angeles, just for the simple fact that he is entrenched himself in L.A. His family loves it there. For all intents and purposes, if he went somewhere else, like his kid, his kid is playing at USC. His other kid is playing high school basketball in L.A.

As much of a family man, LeBron is, I just don't see him. and trenching his way to say like a Philadelphia or somewhere else just to be number two to someone else. I just don't see that at this point. So what does he gain from doing this part when it doesn't, even if he does leave, he's 39 years old, right? And it's not like he is, it's a 25-year-old LeBron leaving. What does he gain from this, from doing this? Nothing other than keeping the pressure on Rob Polinka to get him better help, right? Like, I, I, I, I, I, think, you know, it's pretty clear. And some of my friends who are Laker fans vehemently disagree with me on this. And we've had some spirited discussions over various channels recently. But I don't

believe the Lakers have enough to truly contend this season. I don't think, like John Hollinger, I think it was a week or so ago in The Athletic, it might have been a little hyperbolic on his part, maybe intentionally so. But he basically said that like the Lakers three through 15 were the worst three through 15 in the league. Now, that's pretty rough when you consider that the Detroit Pistons exist. Yeah. And the Hornets exist. They do?

The Hornies of this? I can't actually prove it. I withdraw it, Your Honor. I cannot actually. I can't prove that the Charlotte Hornets exist as a franchise or that they ever have. Going all the way back to like the Jamal Mashburn days or something. The second version of the Hornets, the Bobcats Hornets, I can't prove exist. So even if that was hyperbolic, the Lakers 3 through 15 are pretty weak.

Like, here's the fun game to play. Outside of LeBron and Anthony Davis and probably Austin Reeves, how many of those players would actually start on any of the actual contenders? And then as a corollary to that, or just another fun thought exercise, how many of the Lakers players other than LeBron, Anthony Davis, and again, I'll throw Austin Reeves into it, How many of those players do other teams really truly want? Because this is the other problem here. As we sit here on Monday morning talking about Laker potential trades and the pressure that LeBron is subtly or not so subtly putting on them, the trade deadline's a few days away here. How many of those players do other teams want?

Like, DeAngelo Russell, he's on another one of those hot streaks. Everybody's always like, he's fun to watch. He's got talent. There's always another shoot-a-drop for DeAngela Russell performance. And teams around the league are just very wary of him. It has nothing to do or has only a little bit to do with his play and a lot to do with everything else. But, like, people, teams around the league are not clamoring to get DeAngelo Russell. They're not clamoring to get anybody on this roster.

Like, it's, they've got, and this is not to dump on them. They're good players. But they are not the caliber of the, first of all, the three through five that you need next to a LeBron and AD to make them a contender, much less the six through 10. and so they're kind of, I don't want to say they're hemmed in, but it's an uphill battle. It's just interesting because last year, and I fell for the banana in the tailpipe, I will admit it,

you guys can listen to all past real ones episodes. I thought with that roster last year in the run that they had that rejuvenated LeBron, he was injured, and then he came back, they did really well, I thought that that could be a contender, right? Because they had proven that maybe with a year in a training camp under their belt, what I didn't account for was the drop-off.

in this way. Like, how, what do you think about that? How did they get from a place where they were in the Western Conference finals and looking like a team like, oh, man, this is a nice little bench. They could probably do something with a full season. How did we get from there to where we are now? Yeah, listen, all right, look, while we're all admitting, you know, whatever. I may or may not have picked them to go to the finals this year.

That was not. I did pick them to go to the finals this year. Not only that, but I liked the moves they made it, the Che den Nast. last February, and I liked their offseason. We all praised their off season. Yeah. Who didn't praise their off season? So what? It hasn't worked. So you have to deal with the reality of it. And by the way, it's fine for us to be wrong. We're just, you know, freaking pundits, right? The person who needs to be right is Rob Polink and his staff. So even if we praised you for it and we were wrong, it's okay for us to be wrong. You're the one who has to be right. It's your team to

fix, not ours. Don't list does. No, I thought they'd be better than they were. And it's funny. This is the crux of the argument that I've had with one particular friend who's a diehard Laker fan who's saying, listen to me, he's like, the last 30 whatever games of the season, and then through the playoffs and all the way to the conference finals, this was one of the best teams in the league, dominant defensively. Everything was clicking. Maybe not everything. They did get swept. I know it was a really close sweep, but you still did not take a single game from the next.

But also, you know, they got swept by the champs. There's nothing. They also, like, beat a really broken Grizzlies team and whatever. And a broken Warriors team. Yeah. So you have to put it in context. And also like 30-something games, it's a decent sample size, but it's not, it's still like a piece of a season. And teams can get hot for a couple months and then fall off or be crappy for a couple months and then get hot later.

Like it, you just never know. I can't place that much stock at it. But the case that's been made to me is if we were this good then, and they're not now, it's Darwin Ham's fault. that's that's where this is going that's the debate i've been having yo man i've we've talked to a lot of lakers people over the last couple of weeks the darvin ham just vitriol laker fans are not happening they are laker fans hate him some people in the building hate him it's just it's it's it's it's not great for darvinham and it's it's i'm surprised he's still he's still around right now to be honest with you but i'll just say this okay so the 26 and 25 is you and i record this and

any coach, whatever. There's like that, the range of coaches in the NBA, you know, good to great to bad to whatever. It's not that vast, right? Like, there is a, there are tears and everything else. But even the worst coach in the NBA, whoever that may be, I'm not saying it's Darwin Ham, whoever the worst coach in the NBA is, you're not taking a 50 plus win contending type team and turning them into a 500 team by your rotation decisions. Yeah.

All right? Talent rules in this league. The coach can make a difference around the edges. The coach can, you know, a good coach could get more out of a team. A bad coach might weigh a team down a little bit. But I'm telling you, folks, it would take a lot to take a truly elite contending type team and turn them into a 500 team just on the strength of your lineup and rotation. Okay.

I'll throw you some names. Okay. Like that guys that you think could make this better, right? I thought you were going to ask me like, how many, you started throwing me coaches like, who would actually burn a team down. Like if this guy had been in charge of the 90s would they actually have been a 200% of time? I'm just talking about with this team, right?

No, thank you that you're not asking me to actually insult any old coaches. No, no, no, no, no. You have no problem with that anyway, so it's fine. When, I'm with Eric Spolstrelstrel. Could Eric Spolstrup make this? Could he make them 10 games better than they are right now? Listen, Spolstra, Tailu, who they could have hired? Notably?

Sorry to pour salt in that wound, Laker fans. But, yeah, a different coach, a better coach, a more established coach, perhaps would have them in a better position right now. But I don't think leaps and bounds. My point is not that a different coach, my point is not that coaches that there's no difference between them. It's not that. My point is that ultimately, whether the Lakers are truly contenders this season or not, comes down to their talent.

You don't coach your way to a championship very often in this league. you need, and if you do, it's because you had elite talent, your opponent had elite talent, but you managed yours just a little bit better than they did or something. It's not... Like Rudy Tom Jonovitz with the Houston Rockets of the 90s. Is that a fair session? But he's also a Hall of Fame coach, right? Like, I don't know.

Yeah. I'm sure there are some decent examples if we thought about it. But I just mean it's, to get too deep in the playoffs, especially to the finals in the first place, first you have to have the requisite elite talent. the greatest coach in history is not coaching a so-so team with no stars on it to the finals. It doesn't work that way in this league. So the point is not to take pressure off of ham or blame off of ham. The point is not to defend Darvindham.

The point is just that for the Laker fans who think that like firing him and replacing him with, you know, fill in the blank is going to suddenly solve everything. No, it's not. That's not the issue. And also, by the way, it's not exactly the same team that had that hot finish to the season last year. Schroeder's not on the team anymore. Schroeder's not on the team. I know Beasley wasn't great for them,

but this is a team that is one of the worst in the league in three-point shooting, and Beasley's actually a decent three-point shooter. He can't defend a lick, but, you know, Vanderbilt's been hurt. He was one of the other big pickups. Gabe Vincent. Gabe Vincent's been hurt, and he was a big pickup last summer. It's not exactly the same team,

and LeBron's another year older. And, you know, granted, LeBron and AD have played almost all their games, so that's been a plus, and they still haven't been able to break through. But at the end of the end of the end of the game, of it, that's how you know. You look at the supporting cast and you're like, they just, they don't have enough. And like some of the things that we've been kicking around for months, like, well, you know, yeah, Zach Levine would be expensive, but shit, he's exactly what they need, right? Like a guy who can score, create, put out with the ballroom. Now that's off the table.

They didn't want to make that investment anyway. But like, I don't, you know, I don't know what the options are. But, but I, yes, a different, a more established coach could do more, but it wouldn't I don't think it's the difference between them being, like, wherever they are in the West, you know, 10th or whatever versus like second. It's not that dramatic. Bandil's putting the ball in your court for the rest of the NBA season. Because right now, new customers get $200 in bonus bets with any winning $5 bet. That's $200 if your bet wins.

Let's take a look at the games tonight. Lakers Hornets, taking the over. Kingscaves, taking the over. Mavs, Sixers, huh, taking the over. Clippers Hawks, that's interesting. I'm taking over on that. So visit Fanduil.com slash ringer MBA and make your first bed a layup. Fan dual, official sportsbook partner of the NBA.

Must be 21 years and older and present in select states. Gambling problem called 1-800 gambler or visit www. Theringer.com backslash RG. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued is non-waterable bonus bets that expire seven days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fandul.com. I want to give back to LeBron really quickly because I was reading, I was reading in LA Times a couple of days.

days ago and I saw Bill Plasky just eviscerate LeBron, right? Just, it was just, it was what, he's just been all on LeBron's head for fucking years now, but like he just, he just got like, he saw that, that thread and just said, I'm just going to go, I'm just going to, I'm just going to punch him in the chest. I'm just going to just do one real quick. Basically talked about how just good riddance LeBron, right, because of this and, and I guess the gist of it was, you know, this is what I brought from it is LeBron is a guy that is out for LeBron and LeBron is someone that

does play these mind games, but those don't really track. And I'm really curious to see what the Laker... You talk to Laker fans a lot. I talk to Laker fans a lot. What do you think that this does? Like, LeBron is the global face for player empowerment. He brought in this new era.

but that doesn't seem to jive well with a fan base like the Lakers who want, loyalty is one thing, but they kind of just want you to be down with the cause and just be down with them. And LeBron seems to be incapable of doing that, even when he has a Laker moment. What do you think this latest bit of, I mean, it's, I'm not going to say it's non-news because everything LeBron does is calculated. how will this track right now in the short term in Lagern Nation? And honestly, if it goes the way it is right now with LeBron, I think he's won a, like maybe one a bubble title, and he got to the Western Conference Finals.

But there has not been this winning that was expected when he came here. How was this going to track now? His, like, I don't want to say behavior, but his actions track now and beyond when. it's all said and done when he's a lot like ended his career how are we going to look back on this era of lebron's jams in the laker uniform so it's fascinating the moment he signed with the lakers like okay one of the all-time greats and by most people's assessments right he's a you know discussion for goat with jordan or if you want to expand that to kareem whatever but lebron

is going to be he's going to go down as one of the top two three players of all time and now he's joining this franchise that is one of the greatest franchises of all time but it's a that had Kobe and Shaq and Magic and Kareem and Jerry West and Elgin. George Miken, put some perspective. George Miken. Shout out to a guy with glasses. So when you came up in the franchise, as Magic did, or as Kobe did, or even if you came in early, as Shaq did four years in, right? Karim was pretty deep into his career, but we don't think of Karim as a buck, right?

We just think of him as a Laker because he was there a long time and he won most of his championships there. he had a nice long run. LeBron came in so late in his career arc, like from day one, and partially, you know, look, I covered that team for seven years during the Shack and Kobe era. And so I think I have at least a little bit of a feel for like how that franchise thinks of itself, how people in L.A. think of that franchise. Like I'm not, I was well positioned to some people who grew up there. But it felt to me even the moment the LeBron got there, the question in my mind was always, will they really feel like he's a Laker? Is he just a just like, is he an all-time great Laker or an all-time great who happened to be a Laker for a time,

right? Forgive me, I'm doing this on the fly. Was he going to be like Steve Nash or was he going to be Will Chamberlain, right? You know what I'm saying? Where it's like Steve came late in his career. Will also came late in his career, but you consider him an all-time great Laker, right? Because he was on the 72 team and all these things. I don't know where LeBron fits in that ecosystem.

So the championship matters, right? Like that's huge, right? because it's probably the only one he's getting there, but at least he got one there. But the Lakers weren't getting Perennial MVP candidate LeBron anymore, right? Like they weren't getting... Even on that 1920 season,

you can make a case, the MVP case for him. Yeah, there was a case that year. But by perennial, I mean, like, you knew that be based on his age and mileage alone, that even if he got back in that discussion, it wasn't going to last very long, most likely. So, again, all-time great Laker or just an all-time great who happened to be a Laker.

And that's a huge difference. Like, it's the same basic words in the sentence, but it's not the same thing. And when he first got there, remember, like, there were a lot of Kobe fans in particular who were, like, kind of like, I don't know how I feel about this. And then LeBron hit some early milestone. I can't remember what it was, obviously not the scoring title last season, which he got a very nice ovation for. But he had gotten some other record, whatever it was, first or second year there, second

year, I think. And it was like this really kind of felt like muted response. No, he passed Michael Jordan on the scoring list. Was that it? I think that was one of the big first accomplishment. It was one of those like stoppage of game, announce it to the crowd things. And Staples Center was kind of like, you know, golf club. Well, that was towards the end of the season when they were losing. It was 18-19 season. So I could see why they would be that way. But I just think that there's a, there's always been a little bit of a reticence there to embrace him, especially because for a time, it was kind of a forced rivalry. But there was this kind of Kobe versus LeBron thing for a long time, during the back half of Kobe's career.

I'm going to just speak on me at Stefan right now. That shit was real. That shit was real. All right. For like a younger generation coming up, like you were either a LeBron fan or you were a Kobe fan. And that was what that shit was. And I was on the Kobe side of it as like in high school and all those things.

And then you come up and you kind of had to like, LeBron's better. I think Laker and Kobe fans didn't admit that LeBron was better until like, four years later, four years after the fact that it was true. Like after Kobe's Achilles' blue or something. Probably like, they were still there. I would say probably like 12, 13. LeBron, it was like, damn, this shit is undeniable, right?

But like, LeBron was better than Kobe four years before that. That part I remember. I do remember like this kind of like this very like slow to come around perspective on like, man, this LeBron looks really good. Like even the Olympics, right? It was like, yo, the Olympic team wouldn't even one without Kobe, even though Kobe, was a defensive stopper. He would score occasionally

on that Olympic team, but we would see like, yo, you see that fucking defensive mindset? That is Kobe influencing this team. All right. That's why he's better than him.

That was, we were, Laker fans, just pulling shit out of the wall just to see, make an excuse for it. Point withdrawn about the manufactured. There was no manufactured.

There was some realness too. I just, I think of it as like, first of all, they don't play the same position. They weren't really guarding each other much. There was more the league wanted it in the finals.

And also like Nike had like the, the freaking puppet commercials, right? So it felt like the brands were trying to make this a rivalry. It was more like the mythical rivalry. Like Kobe is kind of the standard bearer for this period of time in the post-Jordan era. Both came out of high school. Right.

And LeBron's the new guy. And so for a long time in the earlier part of LeBron's career and partially in the back half of Kobe's, it was like people really wanted to be a rivalry. And then it was like they really wanted them to meet in the finals. And it just didn't have like the Lakers. just like that implosion they had against the Mavericks that one year. So it just never happened. So I don't know.

What I think of rivalry, I think, like, even like Dirk and Dwayne Wade were kind of funky rivals, right? Not the same position, not in the same conference. But they just didn't have the level of stands on either side. That was the bigger thing. And they didn't have the same position in league, those league tiers, right? Like, Kobe's a top 10 all-timer, and LeBron is in the goat discussion. now and was definitely gone on that trajectory.

Dirk and Dwayne are like all-time greats who are just not at that level. But they did. They met in the finals twice. And those two series had a huge impact on each other's careers. It was cool. They did a podcast with each other recently. I think it was Wade's podcast and Dirk went on. And they didn't, you know, they don't really like each other that much.

Like there's always been like, I don't know if they dislike each other. There's always been attention. But Kobe and LeBron, like, when did they meet with stakes on the table? other than the mythical title of MLK Day 2009. Yes. Yeah, there were stakes there. Howard, I'm telling you, you just don't understand.

All right. For a 15-year-old, 16-year-old, that shit was like, nah, because you had to go to school the next day and lead your case. That was what, I was with the rival. I'm telling you. This is what the streets was, this was, this was the streets was talking. I'm telling you. Anyway, we've got the,

We got to get back to your point. What were you saying, though? I have no idea. How will LA treat LeBron and view LeBron? Because I also think that, like, LeBron has, like, kind of embraced the L.A. thing while also trying to take it over. Like, he's trying to take over L.A. prep scene in a way that's kind of murky, right? Like, his son is a McDonald's All-American where when there was another guy, I'm not, I'm forgetting the names, but this is what L.A. talk is, right?

where another kid was probably more deserving than Brani, but Brony gets the look, right? It's just, there's a lot of, like, nuance and weirdness going on with LeBron and L.A. that it just doesn't seem like as seamless of a marriage that it could be, whereas Kobe was just ingratiated into that world. It seems like LeBron is trying to force his way into it without actually giving love to Los Angeles.

There's just weird balance that it seems like there's L.A. and LeBron are just circling each other even as LeBron lives in L.A. Well, so let's bring this back to where this discussion began, right? Because you were asking about, like, LeBron doing the passive-aggressive thing, with tweeting about, tweeting the hourglass and being coy about it, being coy about whether he's staying or opting out and all this stuff. There's a lot you can get away with if you've built up enough of a reserve of goodwill, right? And LeBron hasn't been there long enough or accomplished enough as a Laker, I think, to probably have built that up. But also, again, and he came in toward the back half of his career.

But also, so LeBron, it's not like Kobe never pulled any of this, by the way. He made a trade request on Stephen A. Smith, so in 2007. Yeah, a massive, massive meltdown. Shack had plenty of meltdowns during his time. Like, you can do that. If you were the franchise star for the Lakers or anybody else, you were entitled to occasionally,

whether it's passive aggressive, aggressive, aggressive, not so subtle, very subtle, whatever it is, you can play the card occasionally of like, get me help, get me this guy, get me, it's fine. That is how this league works. But in LeBron's case, it's always felt like LeBron and the Lakers were almost like these two different entities. They're in this marriage and they're benefiting from each other, but it doesn't feel like a partnership in the way that even when Kobe or Shaq. Which is wild because that's the most L.A. shit ever. But, you know, they arranged marriage that no one likes it is being in.

You know. But I just, Kobe used to do this thing. Kobe would talk about, it was a little corny, but Kobe talked about like putting on the golden armor. Because Kobe had this reverence for the Lakers franchise. And he was talking about it from day one. But day one for him was being 18 years old and talking about, you know, having his grandparents or whoever sending over the VHS tapes of Magic Johnson to when he was in Italy so he could watch.

And so Kobe grows up with this reverence for Showtime and the Lakers and Magic and on day one he's talking about all that reverence and then later in his career he's talking about pulling on the golden armor. You never get the same sense from LeBron. I'm not saying that it doesn't mean, I'm not saying it means it's not there, but partially because when you're in your mid-30s,

you don't speak with the same reverence that you do when you're a teenager or earlier 20s because LeBron's already done it all and seen it all and LeBron's stature in the league is almost on a level of the Lakers as a franchise. Almost. Right? Like if you were just ranking most important entities in NBA history.

LeBron is his own orbit. Yeah. So it's just different because of everything that he already was before he got there. And on top of it, yeah, I don't think that L.A. has ever probably felt like, I don't want to speak for L.A. I live in New York and have for 20 years. But like the sense I get from a lot of friends who are Laker fans, it's like, yeah, they've never, They appreciate LeBron. They're rooting hard for LeBron.

They love what he's done for them. And I think they love rooting for him. But if you were starting to, I hate to say it, because it feels so like obnoxious, but if you're ranking Lakers. Is he cracked the top 10? No, I'm talking. Does he crack the top 10?

That's a really, that's a big question. I'm talking about most loved Lakers. Right, the most beloved. Does he crack the top 10? It'd be, I don't think so. I really don't think so. I would be curious to hear what like hardcore Laker fans say. Does he pass Mark Madsen?

You had to play the Madsen card. He's definitely over Devin George. Sorry, Devin. Is he over Michael Cooper? Michael Cooper. Well, see, that's thing. That's another thing, right? So those Showtime teams had a lot of beloved figures that go beyond the superstars

because of the way that team played and just, you know, whatever. Like, say like this, right, this is the better question. If LeBron, LeBron would never do this. If LeBron said, like, man, fuck Byron Scott, right? L.A. would mobilize. In favor of Byron's. Yeah, they would take Byron. Yeah.

You ain't going to go against Morn and a side high. Like, you're not going to do that, right? That's kind of the question. Does he even crack that type of top 10 list? I don't know. See? Like, and I think that's the conundrum with LeBron is that he is a guy because he never gives himself fully to an organization.

This is the consequence he gets. And I'm really just, I think I'm really just curious to see. when it's all set and done. Like, Miami doesn't have the best relationship with LeBron, right? Like, Cleveland does, I guess, right? Because he's an Ohio one. I think that's probably the most natural one, right? Yeah.

But, like, when he's a, like, he's going to come to all the Laker things because you get the clout best associated with being a Laker. He's going to do that. But are they going to really, like, is he really going to be loved by an organization and a fan base for everything that, is that, I feel like that's a sacrifice he made for the empowerment. Yeah. if he had gone from Miami back to Cleveland, won that championship, and then retired there,

there would have, there would be no ambiguity. You would say, well, LeBron established himself in Miami, but he belongs to Cleveland, right? Not just because he was born in Akron, but because he was drafted there, came back there, got them their title, even if they never won another one. He complicated his, he complicated everything, people's emotions about him, the way we discuss him, the way each particular, each city feels about him. They all have a piece of him, but like, it's, he, he complicated it with deciding to make his career basically a bunch of different chapters, right? And it's the same thing, like, you know, Durant was just here last week. And we were all kind of like trying to assess, well, what is, who does KD belong to? Like, Oklahoma is still pretty pissed off about him, right? Like,

I think they'll retire his jersey someday. They have to. But, see, KD's interesting, because I was thinking about KD as well over this weekend too because I read your piece which is really great go read uh Howard's latest piece on Kevin it's probably one of the best things that's ever been written on Kevin and but it was basically talking about this very subject where these guys don't have a home and I actually asked Kevin about that when I saw him a couple of years ago actually in New York while he was a Brooklyn net where he was talking about how um he belongs to all of these teams um and his jersey it was funny because he said his jersey should be retired by all these teams, I don't think that it's going to get retired by the Nets. Maybe. Maybe they will retire his

jersey. I don't know. You would be more reverse than that. The Thunder of the Warriors, yes, the Nets doesn't make sense. But I think, like, he is a thunder for that part of his career, because he's had so many iconic moments as a Thunder. I think he'll get over that. And also, as a, as a warrior, I think he, I think he belongs to those two organizations in a way, right? Like, I think that two pieces of his heart or two pieces of his career are in those two places. I don't think he has that in Brooklyn necessarily. I don't think he will have that in Phoenix because I don't think they're winning a title or being that good. But that's, I think, the biggest lesson that we learned about in power, the player empowerment error, is you're not going to have a home in the way that you think to.

You're going to have all the bread. You're going to have all the control. But what does that actually get you? Yeah. Let's just, you know. Let me just think about this. Let me just make the case for LeBron real quick with the Lakers. Okay.

Nobody came to them for years to back part of Kobe's career after they've done winning titles. And that's like the list is like Lamarca's Alders, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Durant, all these people, Carmelo. All these guys, LeBron a couple of times. So the Lakers couldn't get anybody to come to play with Kobe and then they couldn't get somebody to play after Kobe until LeBron committed to them. So the case for LeBron is this. After a pretty long, fallow period where they're not getting superstars, it's no, Lakers exceptionalism ain't enough anymore. They're not just flocking to L.A. just because you're the Lakers. LeBron, like, brings back the brand, basically.

Yeah, he does. It's, I'm planting my flag here. One of the greatest players in an NBA history, still with something to do and still something, you know, playing for the glamour franchise. Yeah. He did it. He put them, I don't want to say back on the map, the Lakers never fall off the map, but they were not a destination.

They were not, you know, like, shit, man, like the, I mean, it's a, it's a, it's a, year later, but like, Kauai Laird to Paul George chose the clippers, and Kevin Durant and Kyrie Irving chose the nets. And the Lakers hadn't had a hole like that themselves since getting Shaq and Kobe together in 96 maybe, right? LeBron going there, then draws Anthony Davis there. Is Anthony Davis forcing his way to L.A.?

If LeBron's not already there? Probably not. Clutch or no clutch, all that other stuff, but just in general, you go somewhere to play with another star. So LeBron, in a lot of ways, I think, revived the brand. And then he got them a championship. Yeah. He got them the championship that ties them with the Celtics for the all-time lead.

People could say whatever they want about that title, but it matters. It counts. And I think when all is said and done, even if they don't win another one while he's there, and I think a lot of that, by the way, has to do with just shitty roster construction. Like, you look at their records. Like his first year, granted, LeBron was hurt for a lot of it, but 37 and 45, his first year. Second year is the year they win the championship. They win 52.

And then it's 42 and 30, 33 and 49, 43 and 39, and now they're 26 and 25. But it's a lackluster record. I think it's a losing record. Somebody else had done the math recently. A losing record if you take out the championship season. That speaks to shitty roster construction overall. And that's – so if LeBron's career there ends up feeling like it fell short – It's not just his fault.

It's not his fault. I don't think, like, you can always say some part of it is on the star, but they got him at a late stage of his career where you couldn't rely on him to just drag you to the finals every year the way that he did in, like, in Cleveland. By the way. And he could also make the argument. I brought Anthony Davis here. Y'all didn't do that shit. We, I, he did. Yeah.

Like, I was the one that brought the roster construction. You guys fucked it up. And he can also say plausible liability. Like, you guys traded for Russell Westbrook. You guys did this, even though he did push for it and did. Well, you know, my. position on that. You can say no to your star if you think it's a bad move. One thousand percent. So I'm like, it's not that he's off the hook for that one, but that's

still on you as a franchise for doing it. You shouldn't have done it. So, yeah. We'll see. Last question on this segment. Then we'll get to the mailback. Does LeBron retire a Laker? I think he does. I, like, I will say a year, like 14 months ago, I was doing a piece for my previous employer, about the fact that I thought that the Lakers were kind of failing LeBron. Like, LeBron was still playing at a really high level, even at the stage of his career. And it was unprecedented for a player of his caliber at this stage of his career to be still playing at this high of a level without the requisite help around him. And in the course of reporting that story, I had spoken to somebody who's known LeBron a long time.

This is not somebody who's officially representation or anything else, just somebody else who's tight with him, who basically said. like, they better watch out. They better watch out because he will leave. And I did not put that in the story for a variety of reasons, but I'm saying it now. Somebody did in the course of my reporting for that story say they better watch out. Now, it ended up being irrelevant anyway because a couple months later they did make all the moves to finally trade Westbrook for all the help they got, blah, blah, blah. Like they made the effort. They tried to fix that problem at least and for a time it was fixed. But, you know, that was another year plus ago. Like today, I don't know, like this stage of his career, and Bronny's at USC. Like, I don't... He has a really good setup in L.A., just in general. At Lifespace, like, this is pretty cool for LeBron.

He used to be a Laker, has a prestige ad, and gets to watch the kids grow up in Los Angeles. This is going to sound like I'm hedging. I don't think he's going to finish his career anywhere else. I think he's going to retire a Laker, but because LeBron has had the career he's had and made the choices he's made, nothing would surprise me. Like, if they don't do anything by the trade deadline,

And the rest of the season, they fall off a cliff. And LeBron is playing at the level that he's playing at. If he thinks I've got at least one more good run left in me, but I don't have faith that these guys can help me get there, would I be shocked if he just... Like, it's funny because I was covering the Lakers when Carl Malone and Gary Payton decided to, like, take massive pay cuts. How was the last year in L.A.?

My last season. Gary Payton took the mid-level exception, which at that time was like $4.5 million or something. And I think Malone had actually said to Peyton because they discussed this together. And Malone had told Peyton, you take it, I'll take the veterans minimum. I don't care. I just want to try to win a championship before my career's over. And so the two of those guys came for combined like six or seven million, which even by salary cap standards in those days was nothing.

And the reason I bring that up is like that just doesn't happen that often. LeBron, if he wanted to, could play for any team in the league. Cap room doesn't matter. LeBron can take the veterans minimum if he wanted to. It's like two million these days. I don't think he's going to, but he's also a capitalist. Yeah, like it's just, and it's just different, right? Like certain guys, like some guys, they associate the money with the prestige more than others.

And I think Malone and Peyton at that stage were just like, I've made enough, I want to chase a title. I've never won one. And LeBron. And LeBron. Those guys were as good or as big as LeBron James. Right. And no. And LeBron's already won four rings.

So it's not the same level of desperation. Right. So, but he could. I'm just saying he could. Okay, man, you're hedgy. Now I'm going to do my thing. He's retiring a Laker. Say a quick break and let's go to the mailback.

You're listening to Real Ones, and I am Jade. Did you know that Howard Beck is 55 years old? That's older than producers Kai. and Kern combined. Damn, that's hella old. And we are back. We got Val Dostin State's finest. I got to correct you, Logan.

Did I say it wrong? It's Virginia State. Valdosta is the one in Georgia. No, Valdosta, excuse me. Sorry. It's the one in Georgia. But Dall said is there. Hold on.

I got to correct. Hey, Kern, put that shit in post. Get that figured out. Got it correct. Virginia State. They would never let me back at home. VSU. Virginia State.

They could never let me back at home coming if I let shit in post because I'm not about to do that. No, we're not going to do that part. But I did get, but I did get, uh, Foster Hall right. Shout out to Foster Hall. Shout out to Foster Hall. Shout out. Shout out.

For sure. Okay. That is, that is a big shout out. Virginia State. Yes. Remember when Virginia State would Wale and then, no, no, no, yeah. Exactly. Put that all in post, curve.

Word. It's all good, it's all good. It's all good. So long as you don't ever mess up UC Davis. Oh, you see Santa Cruz. All right. Here we with the mail back. Charles, what's up real ones?

I'm a long time listener. I have three questions about how the media use the stats when discussing player performance. Too many times I see national sports media personalities focus on players' points per game. I believe this sends young players a message that scoring a ball is the most important measure of their value on the court. Should the NBA do a better job of popularizing efficiency stats like per, pie, etc., or should the NBA and its media partners talk about more skill sets and popularize the stats that measures those skills, like assist the turnover ratio, rebound percentage, opponent field goal percentage. Will these stats change the way that casual fans view the game?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Charles. That's a really good question. It's a really great question. I'm in my writing or in how I approach the game, I tend to use stats the least of violence possible for me. Like I'll say something about points or I'll say something about just assist or he did such and such in this game, and this is how he or they or she affected the game. I try not to use stats because I feel like it gets bogged down in my writing sometimes, and I'm just being really

just being very transparent in my process. But I do, that being said, I do think that we can do a better job of just educating people on playing the right way, right? Because any person that I talk to that is in the AAU circuit or has seen this next generation, and I've seen this too anecdotally, but I've seen the next generation grow up, they are focused on entirely the wrong things when it comes to the fundamentals of the game. I mean, Roger rails against that a lot on this podcast.

So I think there can be a mix of both, right? Like, I think that we can do a better job of educating them with stats, but usually, and I'm just going to say this for just my observation, usually when stats are thrown at someone, it's usually from a condescending place. I will say that, and definitely in the way that this game is covered, I think we can do a better job

of not being hella condescending on how we throw stats at a fan or even a casual fan. Like you don't, like, you've been, I mean, Stefan, Howard, you've been in a bar before. When you go to a bar and somebody's like, yo, man, I like this kid. And then some fucking asshole is like,

well, his purse sucks. Like, bro, I. I just like watching them play. I don't think we have to ruin the game, but I think that we can use the stats more constructively to tell a story about how a player can improve or even if we're just bringing up this next generation of basketball players, yo, you should be looking at this a little bit more.

Just see, you know, you don't want to throw a turnover. You should be thinking the game through a little bit more. We can have both sides. We can have everybody's needs meant. We just don't have to be condescending about it. And I think people are, when it comes to stats by and large right now, I feel like people are really condescending of how they put the stats out. Speaking as the condescending person in this conversation.

Exactly. Not because I've literally done this recently, right? So like Nets fans freaking love Cam Thomas, love Cam Thomas, right? Like you cannot, it's dangerous. I'm just telling you now because you're coming with me. We're both to be at the Nets game of Barclay Center tonight. You've got to be careful about any Cam Thomas. Slander, as the kids call it.

Sure. I just call it. Shamed. Shade. Shade. Does shade still, is that still a thing? No, it's just it works. Okay.

Shade works. Have you heard of the Shade Room? I've seen. Have you stepped into the Shade Room? What's the Shade Store that I walk by sometimes on the street? Is it just called the Shade Store? Maybe. I've always thought like, is that where you go?

No, the Shade Room is something entirely about that shade store. Howard, Vieter would kill me. Would be crazy. Actually, I do follow them. I do hear the same room. You'll have to educate me after we get off. The Cam Thomas won, really fun to watch, right? If you're watching a team and I'm just going to say it,

if you don't care whether you're winning or not, and you just want to watch a really entertaining player, Cam Thomas is really entertaining. But we've seen guys like him before, right? Guys who are, for lack of a better term, kind of gunners who just, they're going to shoot every time they got it, but they're going to make a lot of tough shots. They're really skilled as scorers.

The Nick Nung Memorial Award. Right. And there's a whole bunch of... The J.R. Smith, the annual award for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That tree of lineage of players, for sure. There's, like, there's a lot of these, right? And we've seen those kinds of players come and go over the years. And they're fun, and they're always kind of polarizing.

So there's... So I'll just, I'll go to my condescension card. So I'm having the debate with my buddy of mine who's the Nets fan now. Sure. Why am I in all these debates with fans of these teams? What am I doing, Logan? You're popular. People care about your opinion.

So I'm having to point out to him, all right, listen, yes, Cam Thomas has been really fun to watch and he puts up a lot of points. However, and I did that however. And I sent him like freaking stathead links to all these different. You send him some stat muse tweets and shit? No stat news. Just stat head. That's the basketball reference tool. To show, like, of all the guys who are scoring 20 points plus, his true shooting percentage, hate to say it, or his effective field goal percentage, hate to say it, they're really low among.

all the guys who are scoring 20 plus. His assist rate for all the guys who are scoring a lot or have high usage rates. His assist rate is abysmal. This is a guy who is the classic ball dominant scorer who the question then becomes. And this is where I say like we are to the to the readers or the listener's question. We use the phrase a lot these days more so now than in the past. Does he impact winning? That's a question that we talk about now or a statement. He impacts winning or what he does doesn't impact winning. I think it's an open-ended question right now about whether Cam Thomas what he does. He puts up spectacular numbers and he's fun to watch. Does he impact winning? I think that's something that's the Andre Iguodala Memorial Award

for Impact winning. Andre Agadala, he's like the Shane Badiere was called the No Stats All-Star by Michael Lewis in that piece for the Times Sunday magazine years ago. That's Igadala during his Warriors days, right? Like the No Stats All-Star. Like Iigada probably had better stats than Badiye. but Andre was hugely important without the numbers. The numbers don't tell us everything. And we as the media, we do have a responsibility.

And I think we do as best a job as we can to say, guys, watch Igadala. He really matters a lot. But did we ever make him sixth man of the year? Like, did he ever actually get it? No, but he did get finals MVP. He did get finals MVP,

which we get killed for that. I voted for LeBron that year. But I get killed for that too. But I think it's an uphill battle because every kid on the playground, every guy at the proverbial bar you were alluding to or the proverbial barbershop or anywhere else, the water cooler, there are no water cooler. I'm usually at the wine lounge and they don't really talk about that of the wine lounge. We can't say gathering around a water cooler because people don't even go to offices anymore and they're all drinking their own like freaking bottled water. There's no cooler. But if they were gathered around one, they would be talking in points per game.

No matter how many times we thump them over the head with effective field goal percentage or P.E.R. or wind share. or anything else or defense. You know what me and Stefan say when we're talking? That motherfucker ain't going to the playoffs. Next. He's a bucket. He's a bucket though.

And I say all that to say, I can't wait to watch Cam Thomas tonight. Can't fucking wait. He's a bucket. He's a bucket. If you guys know the meme, I don't know if you guys see the meme, there's the guy sitting on the bus

and one side is darkness. Yeah, yeah. It's nice. Cam Thomas is the absolute. The dark side is analytics. The other side, that boy, nice. He is the epitome of that meme, for sure. He's going to, Cam Thomas, when he's out of the league at some point,

and I'm not saying that's any time soon, but he is going to kick someone's ass on an LA fitness, bro. For sure. Oh, my God. And he's pulling up from half court out there. I'm passing, if I'm ever on the team with Cam Thomas, I'm passing him the ball all the time. He is our offense in a pickup game.

And a four-on-four. Tell you what? Yeah. He ain't passing it back. He doesn't have to. It's fine. It's totally fine. That's the next question.

All right. Dear real ones, honestly, what the... No, you can curse. Oh, what the fuck? All right. Let's do it. This podcast is one of the great resources to get insight on how players hustle, grit, and grind. Roger's stories are the best examples. Yet one team you guys never talk about, the one team that consists of hard work and chaps, led by an old school coach.

This team has never discussed. The Charlotte Hornets? Look at the standings. The New York Knicks. What are we talking about? Fight their way through the top. of East, keeping teams in the low 100s by fighting, by boxing out, by getting to the rebounds. Jalen Brunson is taking charges on a rate that other teams do not accomplish.

And yes, Roger loves that. He mentioned this when discussing his son's team. Why is it that the podcast established, yes, even you guys, do not want to discuss defense, starters and bench, but will always go to shiny topics. You know what? Boxing out, the real shit, rebounds, second chance. Come on. The Knicks deserve it. Apologies that I went on a rant. But that's what makes the real ones

R-E-A-L. Sincerely. Yosef. Oh, my God. That was awesome. That was fucking awesome. How are we going to say it any better than he just did? Yeah, he just said it. Shout out to the Nick.

Also, you could go in my motherfucking archives and the real ones and how much I talk about the love that I have for New York City and the love that I have for the New York Knicks. If you go back, talk about orange and blue Thames in the air. You can go and check my resume. I'll fuck with the energy. I am here for it.

However, I do have a West Coast bias. I'm not going to lie. I'm sorry. You guys always have the East Coast bias, and you guys don't never give a fuck about what's going on. I just be like, okay, it's cool. It's nice. When I see the Knicks when they come once a year and when they're going to be in the Bay Area at some point, I'm going to talk about the Knicks.

Okay? That's when it's going to happen. I saw their game against the Lakers the other night in the garden. It was great. It was awesome. It's great for the game. They lost that game, by the way, to a team that is not as good as them. So, you know, Knicks, if you want me to talk about the Knicks, I'm going to tell you my honest opinion.

They are a good team. They're a typical 90s Knicks team. They're running gun. They're kicking your ass. You're going to have welts and bruises and shit when you play against them. But they're probably going to lose in, like, the first or second round. I'm sorry. That's what I see. If you want me to talk about the Knicks, that's what I see about the iteration of this year's team. But I love the energy. I love orange and blue skies, baby.

We see you. Tim's in the air. I got love for all the burrows. We hear. Okay. That's, that's my take on the Knicks. The Knicks need to get Julius Randall back. That's going to be a little bit. They need to get O.G. and Nobie back. But that team at full strength, and eventually Mitchell Robinson can still be back this season. That team is full strength. And then, and they, by the way, can they sneak into the conference finals? Real quick. They may have another move left in them before Thursday, too. Like, if they want to go get another playmaker to more or less replace the quickly roll off the bench or whatever, like they've got the resources to do it. They have done an incredible job of building this team very methodically, not taking the big swing. Now, they did take the big

swing when they offloaded Porzegas and cleared all the cap room and then they whiffed on Durant, whatever. But since then, and that was the previous administration. Y'all can blame Kyrie on that, guys. But this administration, the Leon Rose administration, they have been as patient as any group has been in the 20 years that I've been here. They've been allowed to be as patient, right? Because it's always been about the owner, too. And it's always this ticking time bomb. And even people who have worked there in recent years have told me, like, yeah, that's not gone away. But they've had enough success that it's kept the owner at bay. It's kept him in check. They've done a phenomenal job of just methodically building this thing where it's been hitting singles, not home runs. It's been not trying to

win the back page headline or trying to win the press conference. That's always what the Knicks were guilty of. And they haven't done that. Even the Jalen Brunson thing, right? Like they found, like somebody just noted this the other day. I think it was Dan Devine wrote about this. Like you don't get superstars in free agency anymore. You only get them via trade. turns out the Knicks did get one. Yeah. We just didn't know it at the time. But again, that literally at the time is when it mattered.

They got him at a time when it was like, oh. It was an undervalued asset. Yeah. Phenomenal bet by them. And a contract that at the time, I didn't, but some people were saying, oh, they overpaid a little bit for me. I said, this is one of my worst takes I've ever made, Howard. I said that the, I said that the Knicks were doing the Mavericks of favor taking Jalen Brunson. Oof, that was tough.

Yeah, that's, that's, uh, props, you. you for admitting that on air. Oh, we do our, yeah, you know what I mean? But, but they've put this thing together the right way. And even like the Ananobe move, it's like, yeah, exactly what they needed. And also perfect Nick. And that's the other thing. Like, to your point, like, these guys feel like a great Nick's team.

They vibe with this city because of the way they play and the grit that they show. And because if you go, like, you go back to the 90s. It's funny, when I first moved to New York in 2004, it always struck me, whether it was the media or fans here, that. talked about the 90s Nix, you would think that they were the ones, the franchise that won six titles. They didn't want a championship? During the 90s? Are you sure? I did a double check, but I'm pretty sure they did not win any, and they went to the finals twice. You know who else went to the finals twice and lost in the

90s? The Utah Jazz. But they, we do not speak with the reverence of the Utah Jazz as we do of the 90s Nix. We do not. But it's also the behavior of their stars did not really age well, and that plays a part as well. But go ahead. Did not. But the Nicks have, it, part, Because it's New York. Dude, it's New York exceptionalism. There's no way of getting around it. I'm just going to say, this is like my fourth time coming to New York. And I just got to say, like, I respect the New York energy so much.

I see why y'all don't give a fuck about anybody else or anything. I see it. I understand. I wouldn't either. It was funny. So I moved here in 2004. So not only do they speak about the Knicks in these reverential ways, which I get it. Those were like really important teams and they did a lot.

But no, they did not win any tiles. But then I was like, it's like the garden at the United Tiles. that time was before they'd renovated the garden. The garden always just smelled like stale beer. It was kind of still raggedy now. Yeah, but it also smelled like stale beer and elephants. Yeah. Um, because the circus would come through. And LaGuardia was like a disaster. And the subways are what they are. And I looked around. I realized one day after living here, I'm like, New York doesn't have to fix any of this because it's fucking New York. Like we don't give a shit. You're going to come here anyway. You're going to spend your, your tourist dollars. And we're New York.

We don't care. Now to, to the to the, to the, to, to the, to, to, to, to, to, to, but. That said, they did spend a billion plus to renovate the garden. They have been spending billions to renovate LaGuardia. LaGuardia is actually a respectable airport now. I don't know how that happened. I've been in New York, so I haven't seen the New LaGuardia yet. Oh, dude, the new LaGuardia, like it's unrecognizable. So they have fixed some of these things to their credit.

They even fixed the Knicks. How about that? But yes, there is something in this city that's a little bit of like, fuck it. Like, we're New York. We don't have to try to prove anything to you. Man, I was outside a fucking store yesterday. and they made me have a take, I was with the homing,

and they made us fucking have a 15 minute wait to get into this store in Soho. And I was like, you know what? Fuck you. And also put me on the list because I want to cover it out. There you go. All right.

Anyways. The Knicks are great. Can they make the conference finals? Absolutely. Can they make the finals? Like, I'm not ruling anything out now because the Celtics have just been goofy

enough the last couple of weeks. I don't trust the Celtics, man. I don't trust the Celtics. Our boss Bill Simmons has even said, I think, on record, he's a little nervous about the NICS. He should be. He's always nervous about his own team anyway. The Sixers have just lost NB to knee surgery. It's not a procedure.

It's a surgery. On a meniscus tear, I believe. On a meniscus tear, he's going to be gone for some amount of time. So the Sixers are in a little bit in doubt. The Bucks have been shaky. Like, if the Celtics are the clear number one in the East, there is no clear number two, and it might be the NICS. Hey, finals in New York. I'll have bad.

I'm going to tell you that right fucking now. I will come back. I will come back. It kind of messes with it. my airline miles though like i need it helps my airline miles jv check it out i'm coming to new york i'm coming back anyways one last question do we have any more questions that's it no more questions okay all right that has been another edition of motherfucking mondays we we have no show on thursday i am in transit um so we will see you guys next monday me howard and raja back on motherfucking mondays

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