The Ringer NBA Show - The Daryl Morey Process Comes to Philly. Plus: The Warriors Have Reentered the Chat, With Anthony Slater | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 28, 2020

Justin and Sixers fan Chris Ryan delve into the breaking news of the day: Daryl Morey signs a five-year deal with the 76ers (1:30). Then The Athletic’s Anthony Slater joins Justin, Rob, and Tjarks to talk about what the 2020-21 NBA season will look like (17:35), what the Warriors will do this offseason to maximize their roster and be competitive against the best teams from the 2019-20 season (43:30), and some potential trades for the Lakers (1:12:00). Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Jonathan Tjarks Guests: Anthony Slater and Chris Ryan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. And we have quite the group and quite the chat here today for you. We have multiple segments on this podcast. You'll first hear Chris Ryan and myself react in real time to the breaking news of Daryl Mory joining the Philadelphia 76ers. And after that, the usual crew, myself, Rob, Charks, are joined by Anthony Slater of the athletic to talk about the Warriors, to talk about the Lakers and Wakers.

what's going on with this quick restart plan in the NBA. Basketball never stops here, so strap in. Here is group chat. Hello and welcome to the ringer NBA show. This is the group chat. I am Justin Vary on today's episode. We're going to talk to Anthony Slater of the athletic about the Warriors, about the Lakers, some about the NBA's restart plan.

But we have, once again, second straight week, some breaking news. Is that your memory? Yeah, that's what we do here. man. Darry is going to Philly to finish what Sam Hinky started. We brought in a seasoned hand at Philly Talk off the bullpen. Chris Ryan, tell me, how are you feeling right now? Ecstatic.

I feel great, man. I love how you set this up as if it's like Kylo Ren coming to finish what Darth Vader started. I know I've been watching Star Wars during this break. Yeah, I know. Welcome to the 21st century. Justin, no, I'm ecstatic. Yeah.

There's a lot of different angles to unpack this from because clearly the Sixers have been reshuffling their front office deck for a lot of the offseason, people going out, people coming in. And it does seem like at least initially that Elton Brand will stay in his position as GM. But he's got a new boss. He's got Darryl Morris' boss on a five-year deal. Just a few weeks after Mori left the Rockets, where he departed.

I guess he, you know, he waited a little while after the rockets exit from the bubble, but it seemed like he was going to make another run at it

with Tillman and the homies, but it didn't happen that way because something was calling him. Something was calling him. And it was the process. I do think that he heard a siren ringing or maybe a bell.

A bell? Yeah, maybe a bell that just had a crack in it. And it was just getting gonged, man, because we got to get, we got to get back to the thing that started to build this Sixers process in the first place, which is a little bit of outside in the box thinking. And I'm really excited to talk to you about what might happen here. He wasn't hearing from his children who he apparently left Houston for originally, or that was what he told the public. Going to spend more time with the family. But apparently when the Philly job opens up, don't worry about the kids.

Well, did it open up? I mean, it just seems like it was created for him. It's not like there was like an opening that he is filling. I think that there been some conversations about whether or not someone would come in in this capacity to kind of oversee basketball ops, which is I guess the title. President in charge of basketball operations is probably going to be the title officially. It was going to be a couple of days, I imagine, until this gets announced, maybe the turn of the month. But I don't know necessarily that this was like a quote unquote open job. I mean, Elton Brand was certainly filling positions in his front office as if this was his front office to mold. So the big thing I think immediately, well, the biggest thing is what does Darryorne do to the roster, right? But the big thing also is, what does this mean for Elton and what does this mean for the front office? How is it going to change? Yeah, maybe we could start with the Elton question because this definitely has vibes of Hinky getting replaced by Brian Colangelo where they just hired someone new. Yes. The Sixers have this like history now where they move on to their next significant other before they actually finish the relationship they're on. There's a lot of, there's a lot of bridge dating going on for the six

years. Um, I can't imagine he's happy with this. It's, he's not a weird position. He was entirely in the dark, right? I mean, like, I, I think that, I think that the, the, the Sixers ownership has been probably a little bit more participatory in Sixers moves than I think we, we, we kind of publicly acknowledged. Like, there had been a lot of talk that ownership was largely in charge of, were driving that initial acquisition of Jimmy Butler. At least that's the rumor. And obviously, we all know about the Doc dinner with Sixers ownership during the playoffs that pretty much sealed the deal for Doc Rivers to become the new coach of the Sixers

after Brett Brown had been let go. So, I don't know. It seems like they have been making moves. I have a hard time believing Elton was completely unaware that Darry was going to be coming in in a spot above him on the pecking order. I also wonder whether or not Elton might welcome this. I mean, this is certainly going to make the Sixers. I mean, look, you add Darrell Morey,

you just are going to get better in the front and that personnel department in a lot of different ways. Yeah, there's clarity now to the front office hierarchy. Where for since pretty much Colangelo left, Brain was in charge, but then you heard about all these other assistant GMs who had, say, over certain aspects of the organization. So they definitely focused like where the power is. brand is different from Hinky because this was his first job to begin with.

And as we've seen with him in charge or whatever you want to call it, he really didn't have a good handle of how to do this. Right. So let's just put it. Let's, I want to just set up the scene a little bit for people. So what happened was after Calangelo, like Calangelo was brought in, the Calangelo's were brought in kind of to oversee Sam Hinky. Sam Hinky left. Calangelo's, we know what happened there, right?

So the, uh, brought, yeah. Yeah, and Brian, and Brian exited. And then Brett Brown and Elton Brand come in to, Brett Bound gets a little bit more front office experience, but Elton Brand comes in to kind of steady the ship. Even though Elton Brand was there, I think that it's important to note that there were remnants of both the Hinky and Colangelo front offices

that were still underneath of Brand. And so Brand spent a little bit of time over the last couple months specifically. I think people leaving of their own volition or being pushed, kind of changing out some of the folks that were there. and they also brought in some guys, one, a sort of director of scouting from the magic, and Peter Dinwiddie from the Pacers,

who's more of a cap guy, although is sort of like a polymath. Is he also into Bitcoin? I don't, I see, that's the thing is, like, I don't know if those guys were brought in

knowing that Daryl was eventually going to come in. Because you would have to imagine that Daryl coming in, he's going to say to Josh Harris and David Blitzer are the owners of the Sixers, like, here's what I want to do. And here is the leverage I need.

Here's the leeway I need to make these decisions. So I guess, you know, I don't want to waste a lot of people's time with like, you know, the house of cards that is the Sixers stuff. Do you, let's, should we talk about like the elephant in the room, which is, does this mean the end of the Ben Joel experiment, right? Yeah. I mean, you would think that considering that the Broadendock Rivers, that whoever was going to come in on the front office side, that they were going to give this a try, like I would be surprised if all of a sudden they start blowing things up without at least seeing this for half a season.

Me too. Right? But long term, I mean, I mean, Mori is out here pretty much like going with Robert Covington as his center, whereas Robert Covington was once a small forward next to Joel and Ben.

And so I do wonder if this pairing, like the shelf life, is perhaps up until this deadline. Is that fair? So I think that what they've stripped is the sentiment. If it works, and if it works with the maybe, different players that Daryl brings in, great.

I don't think Daryl Mory is necessarily against winning with the center. He's never had a center as good as Joelle Embed, right? But I think that what he is against is keeping guys around because you feel like they sell, basically they can sell billboard space or because they sell season tickets or because people have become attached to them and bought their jerseys. I think that he is, much like Kinky, you're going to be looking at like the margins. and where can he get an edge and where can he vault this team ahead in the Eastern Conference

because the Eastern Conference is going to be more competitive this year. We have to assume that Miami is going to come back, Lodd for Bear. You're going to have to assume that Brooklyn is a playoff team. So, you know, the window is now with the Sixers like we've been talking about and they brought in a coach who coaches like the window is now in Doc. This is not like a developmental coach. This is a guy who gets teams over the hump and then collapses in the playoffs,

but gets teams over the hump in the first place. And I think that what will happen is that Daryl will be psyched because Tim Daryl, he's got one of the best passers in the game, one of the most unique talents in the game in Simmons, albeit one who seems created in a lab to not play Mori ball because he can't shoot. And then he's got the best center he's ever had on his roster with the exception of, I guess, late period, Yao Ming.

And I think that, so the idea that they, you know, tomorrow we're going to read about M. B'd for Hardin, I think is like a little bit, a little bit false. Well, yeah, I think you could look at Mori and his track record and from a broad sense say he's going to go where the analytics point to. Obviously, he was at the

front line of the three point shooting revolution and I would imagine them to shoot more threes because God knows that like they definitely need it. But I think he's been able to make whatever is in front of him work. I don't think he's as dogmatic as perhaps people assume, like he made it work with Yao Ming, and he basically changed everything in Houston to fit around James Hardin.

He basically optimized what Hardin was great at, and it just warped in a certain direction based on how he plays. So, yeah, I could definitely see him trying to make this work. And honestly, like, he's been working in Houston with his hand tied behind his back for so long, just not being able to go into the luxury tax, especially recently. Sixers, I think the owners here will spend. Yeah. And if you just get a couple shooters around Juel and Ben, I would want to see what that looks like. I mean, their best version of them was with guys they picked up off the scrap. People like Sova and Belli and Ellie during that season.

I don't know if they've really ever found that level of success around them. And I mean, I'm sure Mori's going to pick up the next Robert Covington. That's really all you really need, one or two or three more of those guys. Yeah, I think that Mori, what I'm hoping will address is, rather than the core two guys, and especially even the Tobias. Let's just say, like, Tobias, because of his contract, and Ben and Joel, they go into one side. Everything else, I think Mori can shuffle the deck a little bit on it. And you might look at the Sixers and just say, oh, God, the asset cupboard is bare.

But look, like, there's a couple of interesting pieces there, whether it's Thiable, whether it's, you know, Zeyer Smith has barely played any NBA basketball, if any, but he's still a guy. and what can he do with roster spots 4 through 12 that makes the roster 1 through 3 better? And I think that that's what a lot of Sixers fans were really crying out for, especially in the stretch run, was like,

it's not Ben and Joelle per se, it's the things that are around them and the kind of players you put around them. It's finding guys who can dribble, finding guys who can shoot, finding guys who can make plays, and finding guys who have the ability to switch around the wing so that we're not just getting smoked

by any team that looks like it was put together in the last five years. I mean, this did look at times like a team strangely like it was playing the Roy Hibbert Pacers or something. Yeah, Philly has operated the past couple of years and especially under brand like they need to win the title right now. Like you get in Jimmy, you trade for Tobias, you get rid of all of these second round picks that Hinky accumulated for them. And it hasn't worked out. And the one thing that Mori is probably best known for in Houston is just a consistent level of success. They went to the playoffs. How many years in a row?

I mean, they didn't ultimately win the title. And perhaps that's probably going to shade his Houston run. But like he finds a way to make things work. Having said that, though, because we have to wrap it up really quickly, what about James Hardin? If you could, if you were running this and you were in Daryl's ear right now, would you be putting it? for that, Harden for Embedde? I don't know. I mean, like, obviously James Harden paired with either Embed or Simmons would be pretty stunning to watch. And I am on the record as like really disliking aesthetically, like watching James Hardin play basketball, but you will find me growing a

giant beard if he gets chintraded to the sixers. To the biggest beard I could possibly grow. I think that, uh, I don't think Darryl Morey took this job because he's going to, um, rebuild it. I just think that he thinks that there is some untapped potential in the roster as it exists and then fixing the margins of it rather than there's an Embed trade that the other guys were too scared to make or there's a Simmons trade that the other guys were too scared to make that I have the guts to make that then makes the Sixers a finals team. This team by all all metrics was supposed to be what, like a 55 to 60 win finals can. tender last year, and they utterly failed at that. So I think that for Mori, it's about getting as

much of the potential of this team, modernizing this team in a way where it really had gone from being this super progressive. Brett, when he first came in and was playing, was coaching the Hinky teams, Brett played like a really fast pace and had this team shooting threes all over the place. It's only been in the last like year or so that they've become this stodgy, big, lack of spacing, movement, lack of ideas, offense. And trading a Ben and a Joel is an extremist move. And they quickly moved away from Hinky when he went a little too far out there. And so I do wonder if ultimately what they got in Mory is Hinky who's able to color inside

the lines. They get the progressive analytic mind who isn't out there just trying to push the boundaries of like what is basically acceptable for a GM to do. Right. Right. And you think about, I mean, what Mori has done in the past, it's been opportunistically going after, like, whether it's a guy like Hardin. And, you know, there's obviously a lot of speculation that the Westbrook deal was not his deal. And that might have been the final nail in his coffin in Houston, that he just was like, if this is the kind of stuff that's going to happen and then you're going to ask me to fix the problem that you made, I'm not going to stick around for that. But I don't think Daryl's going to go around making more problems for himself. I think he's going to look to be, honestly like praying on teams like Houston and praying on teams that are like hey maybe like this isn't going to work out with the core that we have maybe we're looking to be sellers and that's where

darrell comes in you know there's so many other questions that I'm sure we'll get to as the weeks go on what are the Sixers going to do about you know getting a point guard in or does Ben take the point guard role and what does this mean for uh guys like horford and everything else and we can talk about that other other time but it's just it's a really fascinating move and it's also just like the NBA has like basically five weeks off and it's not going to be off at all. This is just, this is just wild. Yeah, the sixers are never off. In like the span of two months,

they've already like completely revamped who they are and what they do. And I'm sure as is the case. This is a constant change team. This team is never not in motion. So I'm kind of almost used to it. Yeah, just like you, man. You're always going. He always ready to hop on.

All right. That's it for us. We will get to the rest of the pod here where we previously recorded. Slater, Charks, Rob and myself, talking about the Warriors, Lakers, and the NBA's restart. Until then, we'll talk to you later. Chat, the Ringers' weekly NBA group discussion where we talk about everything from the Knicks being open to using their cap space to trade for an undesirable contract to what else is new. I am Justin Varyer and joining me today. Jonathan Charks.

What's up, guys? Rob Mahoney. Hello. And from the athletic in the Bay Area, Anthony Slater. What is up, man? What's up, fellas? How are you? Doing great, man.

So the NBA seems like it might be coming back as a beat writer, someone who has to or had to, I guess, attend these games previously. How are you feeling about that? I'm good. I haven't been to an NBA event in what is it now? Seven months, maybe? That's right. I mean, I just watched the playoffs for my couch. So, like, I didn't go through the bubble grind.

So I can sympathize with, you know, I know. I know on one of your podcast, Danny Green kind of came out and was like, you know, I don't even know if the Lakers are going to be there, basically. And for the Lakers and the heat and even like the conference finalists, I can see why it might be tough. But, you know, the team I cover hasn't played a game in seven months, they should be ready to go tomorrow. And even a lot of the teams that were in the bubble that were eliminated early, like, that's a pretty normal off season. And they had four months off before the bubble, too. So it's like, I don't know.

I mean, it doesn't feel like they just had an 82 game marathon into the playoffs and then two months later right back at it. I mean, personally, like, I'm kind of ready to go. And the other thing is, I mean, what's the travel going to be like this year? I don't think it's going to be like normal. I think it's going to be a lot easier. So at this point, people probably know. But just the highlights, the NBA seems like it's going to come back on December 22nd or thereabouts training camps, as Mark Stein of the New York Times reported, could start as soon as December 1st, which would mean. 13 days between the draft and training camps, which means we'll have to jam in a bunch of trades

and free agency into less than two weeks. And then it would be 10 weeks between the finals and opening night, presumably for the Lakers who would be on that opening night. That's a quick turnaround. It's about half as long, probably fewer days than usual. Rob, how are you feeling about this plan? It's the last to go through, I should mention. There seems to be a big vote on Friday that could, you know, officially make this a go or something thereabouts. But what are your general takes on this quick turnaround? I mean, I'm ready for the chaos. I'm preparing myself mentally and physically to just get a wave of trades, signings, you know, coupled with all the draft news and considerations that we have to wrap our heads around, especially as people who don't, aren't

familiar with these prospects. So there's just layer and layer of offseason news that's going to come really quickly. I don't know how we're going to process it, but we're going to try our best. I think the mystery is how the teams are going to deal with that, whether they're going to be complete by the time, quote-unquote, training camp starts, whenever that happens to be when the regular season starts, as Danny Green alluded to, who is going to show up for those games and who is not, who's going to take the season even more slowly or more casually than usual. It's going to be a wild ride. But as has been covered consistently, this is kind of the pace you need to get on to get that following season, the 2021-22 season back on schedule. And if it's saving money in the process, you know that's kind of where the NBA is going to lean. So before we talk about the team side, I kind of want to talk about our side of things or the fan side of things. So clearly the NBA is doing this, or at least it seems like, just based on the financial implications,

they keep splashing around the idea that there's a $500 million difference between starting around when they're proposing and starting perhaps later sometime in January. Martin Luther King Day, those days have been thrown around. I'm worried, though, that the NBA had something of a ratings issue, even before the bubble began, and the ratings in the bubble weren't good, although TV in general or sports on TV in general hasn't been really good. I'm just wondering if they're thinking about the bottom line in the media and not the long term. And so I think one of the biggest issues, I think perhaps we all agree on, is that the regular season just doesn't matter as much. And the NBA, I think, goes into lulls, almost like baseball style.

And I think by just having so much basketball, I do wonder if a lot of fans will tune out. I wonder after this big event on Christmas Day, like when the next time fans are really going to be engaged here. And I don't know. I think it's going in the opposite direction of what we would say about what the NBA needs to do two years ago when we were all talking about what's short in the season.

Let's make sure that these games matter. Let's get play in tournaments, to get a more extravagant play in tournament than what we got in the bubble. So I don't know. I'm a little mixed on it. But I would also, like, I'd be honest that I'm also doing this on a day-to-day basis

and closer to it than most people. So it could be colored by that. Charks, do you have any sense of, like, how people are reacting to this? Like, what's the vibe in Dallas right now? Are they ready for Mavs basketball again? Everyone's just talking about the Cowboys. That's a different conversation.

I mean, on your, on your, like, document, you said, will the NBA have a baseball problem? I mean, they've had a baseball problem for, like, I don't know. As long as I've been around, it hasn't really mattered. This isn't going to change much more, I don't think. One thing I want to see happen with this weird schedule, I hope they do some more experimentation. They've been talking about the cut down on travel,

doing like two or three games series between insure, like, conference opponents. I think that could be really, really helpful for the league. I'd love to see that. Like, if I'm a Mavs fan, though, this week, we're playing the Rockets three games like two in Dallas one in Houston or something and it's like it's like a mini rocket series I could see that I think that's worth trying I think that would be really interesting way to do the regular season I'll just see them move towards more of those kind of experimental model see what it looks like charx mentioned something interesting though there you know it was joking he

mentioned the Cowboys how everyone at Dallas is worried about the Cowboys right now but that's kind of true right I mean like right the reason why the NBA a lot you know we could talk about the 25 different reasons the ratings, the ratings might have been down. But one of them is they're going against the NFL. People in Dallas are going to care about the Cowboys during these months right now. And when you get two around Christmas, particularly this year for the Cowboys, is right around the time they'll stop caring about the Cowboys. You know, you will have to kind of go against some NFL playoffs, but that's really just

a Saturday, Sunday. And they'll still be conversations. So the hope from the NFL is you just separate away for, or for the NBA, is you separate away from the NFL. then, you know, if the political climate at the time isn't so, like, high octane, then I think that also gets some eyeballs back maybe in the NBA. And that's nothing they can really do about if they just got to hope, like we all kind of have to hope right now. Yeah. So maybe on the back end, this wall sort itself out and like, we'll just have to get through the next few months of maybe

just like some pretty rough basketball. But that's the thing. I do wonder, I wish they would have been, if they're going to do this approach a little bit more proactive about changing up the format. If you're anticipating some lulls, if you're anticipating some distracted viewers, why not just change things up of it? Why not like try this midseason tournament that Adam Silver has been floating for several years now? Because the other thing we should probably talk about is just like the implications on the basketball itself. I mean, like I said, the Lakers pretty much just like they're still celebrating the title. LeBron is still Instagramming like 60 things. a day just like claiming that he was the winner and all this other stuff. And I do wonder if like,

well, for one, is LeBron going to show up? And two, like if he does show up, if he and Kauai show up, like, how many games are they going to be playing, especially during the early going to goings? Rob, you have a sense of like maybe how like teams and players might like respond to this? I mean, I think it's going to be a variable across the board. And of course, you're going to see more veterans take things a little slowly. But I want to circle back to the midseason tournament idea, which in theory, I think you're exactly right. This is a. exactly the time to be experimenting with the schedule, to be trying new things, you wouldn't under normal circumstances. It's already kind of broken, right, the format of the season. So let's mess

with it a little bit. The problem is that we're also, while off schedule, dealing with this pandemic. And so, like, the idea of bringing 30 teams to one place to play a tournament, the NBA has already said it would prefer not to do a bubble again, basically if it has any say in it or any ability to play out of markets. That creates a lot of limitations in terms of those kinds of plans, those kinds of bigger scale things that we would normally love to see. I'd be really excited about a mid-season tournament. But there's just certain things that aren't going to be feasible under these circumstances, especially if we're, if we're prioritizing that $500 million, prioritizing these financial savings, the idea of offsetting that with a bubble environment,

even for a limited time, with expanded testing to accommodate lots of teams being in one place, that's tricky. But I mean, to your bigger question, how teams navigate this is going to be one of one of the big variables, I think, just because we don't have a sense yet of which teams are going to have fans in their markets or not, which teams are going to be, again, complete at the start of the season or not. It's a very different thing if you're bringing in big free agents

or making a big off-season trade, how you're going to approach the regular season. All of a sudden, those games now start to matter a lot. As the Clippers showed, I think, last year, in terms of their chemistry by the end of the year, if you take things a certain way with a pretty much brand new roster, at least at the top end, and come back to bite you. One thing I'll be watching, in terms of finances,

this could be a year where your two-way contracts become important, right? If you're playing more games, you've got to rest guys, give guys nights off. You're going to need to use your whole roster, and that's 14, 15, 16, 17. But that's like, I don't know, by the same of your cutting costs, it's like a million dollars, right? I think the teams that'll pay the extra like $1 million for the end of their bench players could have a huge advantage, because this is not a year to have 12 guys. on your roster. That's really going to hurt you

over the long haul. You didn't even mention the virus either. You know, I mean, that could knock four guys out in a week. And I mean, you're seeing it in the NFL and the MLB. But I did hear some rumblings about maybe maybe you have four two-way guys, you know, and you can't activate two of them unless you're missing two. I do think there's going to be some

finangling there roster-wise. Well, what is our confidence level in terms of the two-way guys that the G-League will continue operations as usual? Like, I mean, that's it's one thing if you're going to pay to keep NBA arenas open and make them safe, the G League is just a whole different financial endeavor. Well, I hope they play. I want to go down to Walnut Creek with you, Rob, and watch all the great prospects.

Right when they put one in our backyard, we're shutting things down. I know, unbelievable. And I will say, too, like, for these young guys, like, this class is going to be tough. You're going to be drafted, right? Seedon starts, like, two weeks later. There's no G League, most likely. Like, the developmental path for these guys in this year's draft, this could be like one of those, what do they always say, like, if you graduate in a recession, it's always hurts your

career, I feel like this draft class could be really hurt by what's happening. Two draft classes, probably. This one and the next one. Free agents, anybody that's traded during this, like, two weeks, I guess, we're going to get of an offseason. Like, you're pretty much going to have to, like, pack up your stuff and move to, like, Detroit and, like, be in the starting lineup tomorrow. I mean, this is a good time to talk about just, like, the difference of how this will affect team. Slater, you covered a little bit of the Lakers during the postseason, and obviously you cover the Warriors full-time. Do you think that that is the divide in and of itself? Do you think like the Warriors are super excited about this and the Lakers are just loathing this?

You know, not the financial aspect of all this because, you know, you mentioned different municipalities might let fans in later. I think Chase Center might be the last to let fans in. I mean, San Francisco's been the safest. And that hurts the bottom line in the Warriors who were planning on literally having the most expensive roster and NBA history. Like already have like four basically max guys locked in, had a $17.2 million exception they were planning to use, are about to, if they use the second overall pick, I mean, pay that rookie like $9 million, $8 million, $9 million in his first year. And with absurd tax numbers attached to that. And now I don't know if we're going to find out soon, I think. But if the tax line is down, that jumps the tax bill up even more. So the

warriors are sitting there like, first of all, they need to understand if they have an appetite to spend all this when they're supposed to be having Beyonce concerts right now just shoveling in money and Phil Collins. They had to cancel, I think, like 25 concerts this summer. Not Phil Collins. That's heartbreaking. That's truly heartbreaking. They had a very diverse array of artists that they had to shut down. But, you know, again, they just got to, I don't think anyone is cool with it. Just because the amount of money they're all losing. And at this point, you know, there was talk about March because it was like, if we

bump it out to March, maybe on opening night, you're going to fill up chasing. And now I think they're saying, let's just do December because I don't think fans might be, at least full fans might not be in all season. And, you know, maybe out in Dallas, maybe you'll have 25% capacity at some point. But, I mean, the Warriors just are not going to be bringing in the money that they thought they were. So I don't know. They're trying to decide can they still spend like they thought. New Orleans will still be 10% capacity, but that's just because no one will go. Hey, oh. Yeah, I don't know. And I do wonder if like everyone in the NBA saw Justin Turner

like running around without a mass last night when the Dodgers won. And they're like, that's exactly why we can't push this any further. It doesn't seem like there's any hope in sight here. I am curious how the players. are going to react to this. I think by and large, you'd expect a lot of guys to push back on this just because they don't have the same amount of ramping up time. But at the same time, I think we do forget, as Slater, you mentioned early on, like, the Warriors have been sitting around for how long months and months and months and like March 10. Even teams, geez, and even like the nets, let's say a team that was in the bubble has been sitting around for months. Even a team,

like the Clippers has already gone through a coaching change and a bunch of other stuff. So it is probably a high class problem. Like there are probably only like four teams who might like really be upset about this. But one of those teams employs LeBron James. And as we've seen, even just in the bubble as LeBron goes, so does the rest of the league.

And so I do wonder like Charks, could this like be as simple as LeBron spikes this and all of a sudden we're talking about something different? No, I don't think so. The thing I don't thought of me was with the escrows, right? I saw it was like a 30, 40 percent. So if you're,

working in California and you're paying half your money in taxes and you're getting 40% of your money in escrow, that means you're getting 10% of your salary this year. I mean, who knows how much escrow you get back? That much money being lost, like, let's just do it, man. Like, that's a, I'm not getting 10% of your salary, right? Right? Like, even if you're really frugal, like, you're, you're in trouble with your budget. No one budgets to pay 10% of their salary, I don't think. Well, I mean, I feel like the, the players had a lot of negotiating, say, in power in the bubble situation in the first place. And we saw them give up a lot to be able to pull that off.

I think we're going to see the same thing again. I think like Chuck's was laying out, the players want this just as badly as the teams do from a financial standpoint. The question is, can they justify it with their bodies, with their training, with the free agency aspect if you're on the market? There's a lot of variables there, but I think the players want to get this done too. I think you just load manage early if you're the Lakers. That's what they'll do.

and, you know, your original question about the worst, it is good for them in a sense of like they should be coming out of the gates, like, you know, fired up because Clay Thompson hasn't played an NBA game in like 18 months. They need, they actually like really need the basketball more than these other teams. But what does that equate to? Sure, maybe they're 12 and 4 and the Lakers are 8 and 8, but then the Lakers start taking it seriously.

Okay, like season on. I mean, it's, I mean, we all know how it works. The regular season ends up not really matter in that. much. That's true. I mean, do you even expect the Warriors to even have to load manage someone like Clay coming off of a year and a half of without basketball and stuff and some of these other guys? Yeah. You know, yes in the sense of like Clay Thompson used to be like 38 minutes of like two-way basketball every night. You're guarding James Harden, you know, the bulk of the game. And you're not you're not taking a game off. For this year, I do think, you know, particularly early 28 minutes for Clay Thompson.

Andrew Wiggins, why don't you guard James Harden? Even if he might get on you a little bit, we just don't want to give Clay Thompson that assignment. And then, hey, it's a back-to-back. It's the first four back-to-backs of the year. This year we might have back-to-back. So I don't know how they're going to crunch this schedule, but he might take a game off.

I mean, they're all on the backside of 30. This is not the warriors of who they used to be. Draymond, I assume, is going to need some ramp up time. So, I mean, it's Russ versus. rest a little bit, you know. They need the basketball because they need to get their bodies back in shape. But they're also not going to be coming out of the gates looking super sharp, I don't think. I just think they'll be energized more than the other teams.

I'm already excited about NBA basketball. Just a lot of load management. Clay Thompson every three games. This is what I'm worried about here. That's the tagline for ABC. A lot of load management. Come tune in. Why don't we get, why don't we just go Warriors Nets four games?

series in San Francisco to start the season or Brooklyn, wherever you want to do it. Because those are the two teams that I think people will be the most excited to see the newness of like, wow, Durant, you know, Kyrie, Steve Nash, and then, you know, just the Warriors being back. And those two teams should be, you know, energized for the season. So maybe you can sparkle those two teams early on, really kind of showcase them. And you backload the Lakers national TV games. I don't hate that idea, like almost staggering the schedule. It would put a lot of like big games for the Lakers on the back end, but Lakers Hornets opening night on

spectrum. That's what shit is. Hey man, the Lamello Ball era of the Hornets is going to take them to a new new heights here. I don't know. I just increasingly find myself, like I get all of the motivations for doing it now. But like, I'm not excited about this season. And I think there is probably a camp of hardcore NBA fans. Like, give me all of NBA that like you can give me and just shoot it into my veins. That,

that sort of crowd. And for the owners, just any basketball equals more money. But I don't know, just really is deflating. And I don't know how you pick up that momentum until the playoffs again, really. Well, the basketball is going to be bad, right?

I think we're all accepting that up front, that at least for the first two to three months of the season, it's going to be pretty sloppy. Whether it's guys out of shape, whether it's guys load managing, whether it's rotation players who aren't used to being in a rotation, now forced to play 22 minutes a game. I don't know how the NBA could expect to field a great product over the first couple months of a rushed season like this.

But they've just decided for understandable reasons that that doesn't matter to them too much. I'm not sure two months would help that much either. You know, I'm not sure if you start MLK Day, which was the one I was kind of getting ready for, or even a little after that, it would be like, you know, fired up. This is going to be a great season. It's just they got to crunch this in. I think they have to do the 72 to, I guess, the local TV numbers. They just need a certain amount of games. And then I think the big thing is they just want to, I think we're talking too much about the front end.

It's about the back end. They got to get the playoffs in June, July, not August, September. And I think that's, they're trying to correct that aspect of it. Yeah. Well, immediately here, we talked about the offseason. I do wonder what the effects are going to be just on the transaction game. Like, are we going to see free agency? play out tomorrow and over the next couple days, is free agency already happening?

Like, do you get a sense just from like the Warriors? Like, things are already in motion? Yeah. You know, I don't think they're, you know, sitting down having like, you know, lunches with Marcus Sol trying to convince them to take the MLE. But like, you know, particularly with the Warriors, I've been, I have been having discussions with some of their people behind the scenes about their offseason for seven months. because it's been their off season for seven months.

You know, like, they've, they know every single plan. They know every, I mean, every draft pick, every TPE option and all the maneuvers it would make sense and, you know, what the money would be if the tax line was here. I mean, yes, they are, and they're obviously not alone, like a lot of these front offices right now. Like, they've laid out everything they want to do. And I'm sure had conversations with agents. I can't report on any specific conversations they've had with agents. But, I mean, you're already hearing, you know, some of the.

most plugged in national reporters, like there's some free agency deals already lined up. Yeah. I think the front offices are ready to hit go on draft free agency. Now, the big problem is then you turn to the players and say, all right, you just signed. Well, guess what? It's training camp practice number two. Here's the jersey. Get out on the court.

I mean, I wonder about that part where you've given the teams with the eight worst records in the league an extended offseason to game plan to theorize every possibility for how their offseason could go. could we see more creative stuff happen? Could we see those teams be slightly ahead of the curve in terms of their operations or their maneuvering? If any team could use them, it's certainly the hornets of the world.

The Warriors are in a different class, different category as far as that stuff goes. But some of these other lottery teams maybe they're in a position to do some more interesting things. I would look at like the Hawks. I would say a young team with a lot of continuity. We talked about them last week, too, the Suns. Those teams I'd be looking for early.

A young team with the fresh legs didn't play very, deep, has their coach coming back, has their rotation coming back. Those teams I'm watching for early in the season might get an advantage from this. Yeah, I think the Sons are in that category of team that got good reps in the bubble and reason for positivity and then got out early enough to rest for an extended period of time and go, you know, go through their offseason reps. That's kind of the sweet spot. If you're talking about, who are we going to be talking about 90 days into the season? It's like, oh, this is the surprise team of the beginning of the season. I think Phoenix is almost certainly going to be in that category.

Well, if free agency is going to be contracted, if it's going to be such an accelerated pace, like that's more of an advantage for a team like the Warriors who has all of these situations planned out. So if A, doesn't happen, they already have B, C, D, E already ready to go, whereas the Lakers have maybe not as equally as complicated an offseason, but they have a lot of things to figure out, and they could potentially reach for a big trade here to bring in,

a third guy, Rob Polinka has been talking about that, and we'll talk about that later in the podcast. But I do wonder for teams like, let's say the Denver Nuggets, Miami Heat or some of these other ones that potentially could swing a big trade, like does the calculus change? Are you starting to think more about consistency, keeping what you had, than throwing in this new element who might just be your highest usage player?

Some of these front offices, I mean, it's their jobs during the playoffs to also be working through this. you know, Rob me, you dealt with it around the Warriors the last five years where it was like, they would be playing NBA finals game too. Meanwhile, Bob Myers in the front office are having draft workouts with like possible 28th overall picks in the facility. I remember, you know, you talked to a couple of the draft prospects. They came on Parade Day in Oakland. They would be at the facility while the Warriors are like getting drunk, you know, on this side of a facility.

It's like the 28th overall picks are over there, like trying to, you know, scrap for, for a roster spot for next year's team. So these front offices, if they're good at their jobs, plant, you know, they got the bubble to kind of talk to each other. I don't really know how intimate that setup was, but I hope all these front offices were ready for this office. If not, then you're going to be buying, but that's kind of your fault. There were some candles, you know, candlelight dinners in the bubble.

I heard about all these like Mickey Mouse restaurants and what the Three Bridges Club. And it sounded like kind of interesting time down there. See, that's why we needed you in the, the bubble. Those are the stories I actually want to read. I want to know what Gorindrajic is like eating before a playoff game and whether or not he gets the good seat at the Serbian dinner, you know?

He seems like a Caesar salad guy for some reason. I don't know what that says about him, but that's my first impression. All right. I think that's a good place to perhaps pivot here. So the Warriors are one of these teams with the big off season, as we mentioned. Slater, you wrote yesterday, actually, that they have two big questions to solve here

going into it. The first one is just what to do with their trade exception. So maybe let's just start there. So it's $17.2 million as a result of the Andre Aguadalra trade last year. And you would think considering how much money the worries had raked in over the years that this would be a no-brainer. But as you mentioned earlier, being in the pandemic, not having fans is probably a more difficult equation for them.

Do you think ultimately they'll end up using it? And if they do, like how do you think they'll use it? I mean, I think they'd love to use it because if they used it, I think they'll, you know, you talk to people behind the scenes that it's like it better be like I can't miss opportunity. It reminds me a little bit a couple of years ago, a couple off seasons ago. They came out and said, you know, I don't know if we're going to use the mid level because, yes, it's a $5 million contract, but because of the tax bracket we're in, it's really $20 million. You know, you'd be committing $20 million to an MLE guy and like, is it the right guy?

Then DeMarcus Cousins becomes available. and I know it didn't necessarily work out perfectly, but you guys remember the night they signed to Marcus Cousins. It was like, whoa! That was the no-brainer. And, yeah, sure. If there's, like I mentioned in the article, like Marcus Smart and a pick swap, you know, because Boston needs to get off some salary

and wants to jump up to two and they'll give their first rounder. Sure, I think that's probably a no-brainer for a team like the Warriors. Or if there's a really good player that a team like Houston, like let's say, for kids, it's like, we just need a shed salary. Robert Covington, here. you go right into your trade exception thank you for taking that money on yeah sure you go yes i don't know that that's going to be available uh and then when you get down to the levels of rudy gay would rudy gay help the warriors next year as a as a seventh man yes um but rudy gay is making i think 14 million

uh which you times that by the tax bracket they're in i mean we're talking about you're spending 50 million dollars or something like that to to have rudy gay as your seventh man like joe laca has you know pinned himself up as the owner that will spend every last dollar to get every little bit of value. But considering the times we're in, which were pretty, you know, they're unprecedented financially, the fact they can't have, they don't know if they're going to have fans in Chase Center next year. It's like, it becomes a really tough conversation with the ownership group where you're just like, you know, 50 million for Kelly Olenick or, you know, whoever you want to say into that trade exception. But I'll tell you what, he's going to get

criticized locally if he doesn't use it because he spent all last year talking about it. And they dipped under the tax during that. That was the underrated part of the Wiggins, Russell. move at the deadline. They threw Jacob Evans and Omari Spelman in there just so they could dip under the tax. And they had the press conference that said, well, we did that because we're going to spend so big this summer. And then if they don't, they're going to get criticized, but I wouldn't necessarily blame them for

not spending $50 million to just add Rudy Gay. But, I mean, that's just the reality of the world. Well, that does feel like the king move right there. Because we're talking about the Lakers having this just dominant big two. But if the Warriors can trot out like three Hall of Famers, Andrew Wiggins, the number two pick, and then also Rudy Gay is like your seventh man. And the Lakers are throwing out Markief Morris. That seems like a pretty big advantage. No team is going to be able to go that deep and that good. And like, I don't know. Like, transactively, it makes a ton of sense. I just, I don't know. It seems like

a really difficult decision. Well, it's interesting. I mean, the problem is the fact that it expires. and if you don't use it by, it's going to be right after the moratorium. So like seven days after free agency, it'll expire. If you don't use it, I mean, like, that is just a very valuable weapon that just like it's gone for nothing where even if like a Rudy Gay is available, you could go to Minnesota and say James Johnson, who's making $16 million, it was like a minimum player at this point. Like, give us James Johnson and a second round pick, probably because we'll just take them on in the books. And then you down the line, maybe we're talking trade deadline, maybe we're talking a few weeks later,

you go, Orlando will give you Minnesota's next first and James Johnson's contract. Give us Aaron Gordon. You know, there are chess moves to make, but you need to keep that salary slot, you know, on the books. Right now it's an exception. You can make it a James Johnson. And then you can bridge it to, I mentioned Aaron Gordon, Miles Turner is another potential target that I think would be really intriguing with the Warriors. But that requires you to have the appetite to spend, I mean, outrageous amount of tax money. I mean, because we're not even talking about what they already owe to four of their players.

I mean, I think it's $130 million combined for four players next year, which already gets you over the cap. So Joe Lacob, this is, if you really want to be light years, this is your summer to prove it. Because like if they are willing to spend, they can, you know, have a pretty stacked roster, I think. But it's going to cost. Yeah, Slater, doesn't it kind of feel like Wiggins was the work? going to spend money move, right? When you have three guys on max contracts and you add Andrew Wiggins, that was your big financial investment. That was the move, okay, we're spending a lot of money. So now it's like, what did you get for it? Well, yeah, well, if you want to take it back even further,

DeAngelo Russell was the we're going to spend move because you could have let Durant walk for nothing. And you said, no, we're going to take Russell who they knew did not fit. I mean, like, you know, Steve Kerr was not going in the season like, yeah, Russell, Steph, backcourt is the future. But they wanted the max salary slot and they figured, you know, they could flip Russell down the line. And they proved to be right. I mean, say what you want about Andrew Wiggins. But just if you just say, we don't care about the money, it's better to have Andrew Wiggins on the roster than not have Andrew Wiggins on the roster next year because you wouldn't have that salary slot otherwise. Plus they get the first rounder from Minnesota.

So, yeah, you're right. I mean, like, but the problem is they made all of these maneuvers, which included the Wiggins salary slot now and the trade exception thinking all summer. they were going to have parties in the Chase Center. They were going to be shoveling in money. They were going to show this product to 20,000 people, including all the people in the bunker suites at Chase Center, which they cost, I think, like, 2.5 million a year or even rent. Why can't they use those?

They're bunkers, right? Isn't it a part of a bunker? What the heck? You know what? You were having the exact conversation that the Warriors front office is having with the league right now. Why can't we use the bunkers? Can we use it, please. Stock them with canned goods and, like, rations.

Yeah. So, I mean, this is high-level financial stuff. And yeah, I mean, Joe Likov has a chance to be the Warriors MVP of the summer or he has a chance to be roundly criticized locally as Rob knows. Well, the thing about that exception, too, and the number two pick kind of comes into this as well, I keep coming back to the fact that at the end of next season, Steph is going to be 33 years old. It's like if not now, when?

You know, like, I could understand if you want to use the number two pick on a young player, have kind of a bridge talent into the next generation of the Warriors, I get it. But I mean, I would also feel the compulsion of we need to put the best team on the floor over these next two years, basically. It's hard enough in the NBA to win with a small guard as your best player.

And, you know, it's one thing for LeBron to be 35 or I guess 40 years old and he's still going to be amazing. But, you know, Steph has a shelf life here. And if you want to maximize it, I feel like the trade exception is the first way to do that and probably trading the number two pick is the second way to do that. So this is what I want to talk about Wiggins.

Like Anthony, what did you see from Wiggins' second half of the season? What's a realistic expectation for him this season? How good can he be in this system in this role? You know, I wish I got more of a look because, you know, you say second half, but the problem is they sliced off 17 games of that, including, I mean, I don't know if you guys remember. Steph came back for one game and it was like, you know, like the franchise was really, they weren't going to make playoffs, obviously, but it was like they're going to get 17 games of Steph in Wiggins. and even some Draymon in there.

And you play one game. And then he actually didn't play the next game because he had the flu. And the franchise had to actually announce that he didn't have coronavirus. They gave him the first test of anyone in the NBA. They said, no, he doesn't have it. I don't remember that. Yeah. And then he didn't play.

And then the next game, they were like, well, we'll just have no fans in. And then Gobert test, boom. So I didn't get Wiggins and Steph on the court, which, you know, you mentioned Wiggins in their system. You kind of need stuff out there to, like, see him. the system. But I see what they see, which is a guy they believe they can turn really into like an offball slasher, cutter, finisher, who is not the first or second option like he was in Minnesota, which I think is going to be good for him, who will not at all be the first or second personality in a locker room, which I think fits his personality. Like he doesn't not want to

talk to the media. And when you have Draymond, Clay, Steph, Steve Kerr making headlines, like, You just can kind of play basketball and leave the gym a little bit. So I think it's going to be comfy for him personally in there, which matters. And then I thought he defended pretty well. It was very weird. He came to the war. He played 12 games. And within like the first five games, he had a career high and steel game, which was like, I think, four or five steals.

And then he had like two games later, career high and blocks. And he had four or five guarded Devon Booker well. I remember they played the Lakers twice. He guarded LeBron pretty well. And like you talk to people who've seen him his whole career. Apparently he plays LeBron really well all the time because LeBron traded him back in the day. So there were flashes.

And I do think the offball nature, the movement, the cutting that Kerr is just going to get in his ear about it all the time. They already have Leandro Barbosa now that they basically got us his personal coach. I think they're going to get a lot out of them. The problem is I don't know what his ceiling is. Ron Adams seems to think he can be like fringe all defensive teams. type wing. I'm not there. Ron Adams is optimistic about stuff like that. Ron Adams is also probably speaking to the earth for that answer. Ron Adams is like trying to put his brain in Andrew Wiggins. And he's like, if I was Andrew Wiggins, I could be in all defensive team. But I, you know, look, worth

whatever 30-something million that he's going to make next year? No. But can they make him a 20 million per year type wing? I think so. I mean, I don't think he's going to be an all-star, but I think he's going to be about as good as you can get of a fourth best player on a contender next year. So could he be Harrison Barnes, I guess? That's the question. I think he's better than Barnes offensively. I think he will be for the Warriors. I think not as good defensively because not as versatile. I've literally mentioned that comparison to Kerr. Like, hey, can he be that? And he's like, well, he doesn't guard four. Barnes is a lot, you know, sturdier can shift down guard fours and unlock the death lineup. That's what he did back in the day.

Wiggins can't do that But I think Wiggins can maybe upsides a little bit better defensively, maybe guard like twos, threes better than Barnes did Who would you guys rather have now? If both were free agents Because both are currently on contracts, neither

and none of us probably would want, but who'd you rather have Wiggins or Barnes? Just forget money or I guess like if you were signing them but for the same price. For the Warriors specifically? Sure. I would take Barnes. You know, I would, as a person who wants to believe that humans are capable of change in the way you described Slater, like, I would love to see Andrew Wiggins slasher, cut, or off ball move.

I would love to see engaged defender Andrew Wiggins on a nightly basis. I just don't think there's enough evidence to believe that that player exists. And maybe the Warriors pull it out of him and it's a miraculous thing. And it's amazing. I'm probably on the more pessimistic side of that, which, like, that's still a valuable player. A guy who can score like him is still valuable. I just think when you have Stefan Clay and Dremont, it's not necessarily what I'm interested in.

The part about him playing the four is really interesting. So what is a death lineup now? If Wiggins is not going to play four, who would he be in that spot? I mean, I think Wiggins will play the four. I think the point is he's just not going to be as good defensively as Barnes was. But yeah, I mean, they've mentioned him playing a little bit of the four.

Problem is Draymond's not, I don't think the small ball five he used to be. We'll see. I mean, who knows, he might be listening to this right now. like the 25 other people who have said he won't be that, and it's just infuriating him. But, you know, Pascal could be, you could make him the small ball four in there. And I think they're going to go with centers more often

than people think next year. Yeah, it's probably a good time to talk about. Including maybe James Wiseman. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about that. So let's just get to it. Like, I mean, it seems like they've been going around and talking to some of these guys.

You and Marcus Thompson reported that they, talk to to Wiseman to Avija to is that how you say it sharks Anthony you got an answer you're good denia Vija I believe that's correct I need an initiation guide there we go and then Anthony Edwards I could say that one

but Wiseman seems like just based on like on paper makes a ton of sense are we overthinking this or is someone like Edwards just like too talented to pass up when you only have one shot at a top two pick here I've been making the Weisman case for months now because I've had seven months of off-season and to really dive into this stuff.

But yeah, again, some people might not like Wiseman as much as I do. And honestly, part of it's just, he's played about 69 college minutes. I can't have too firm of an opinion on him. But I just think in a draft that is devoid of a definite number one, the physical profile of Wiseman, I mean, he's basically Rudy Gober's size already. And even the little sprinkles of film we've seen. where he's just crushing lobs. And I know he's playing terrible competition.

I don't need to be reminded of that. But he just looks like a guy that if you believe in your developmental staff, if you believe in Ron Adams, you bring, you know, Wiseman, you could convince Ron Adams, go make him a defensive player of the year type because he has the physical profile to be that as a center. We'll see if he can slide out on the perimeter. That'll probably be the biggest conversation about him.

But just considering need and the surrounding options in the draft from my perspective, and I'm not a draft expert like sharks or some of the other guys, I just think it's an obvious pick. And I've been saying that for months. Maybe I'm wrong. Well, I would say the funny thing about what Slater is saying there about if you look at them, if you say in theory, that's been the story with him his whole career, going back to his AAU days.

Like, the production has never really been there. I say you guys, he got beat by guys like Vernon Carey Jr. Isaiah Stewart. They beat him in one-on-one matchups, but everyone was like, but this guy's seven feet tall and he's so athletic. Like, he's got with an overall pick. And that's just kind of been his thing. So what I'm curious about, like, I'm drafting James Wiseman to guard Anthony Davis in the next two to three years, when realistically, when's his prime going to be, right?

He's a young big man with a lot, a lot of experience. You need to develop this guy over four, five, six years. That'd be my concern right off the top. I mean, I think if the Warriors are really thinking about who guards Anthony Davis when it matters next year, it better be Draymond Green and he better be up for the task like he used to be. So, I mean, their season in a lot of ways hinges on Draymond Green being Draymond Green. As again, as kind of a non-expert looking at this stuff and certainly not having the landscape that you do of the draft prospects, to me he looks like the highest upside.

And again, I'm talking about the stuff you're talking about like just looking at him and seeing some of the film and him crushing lob dunks basically on us four playing against them last year. Hey, Rob is a great post defender. Don't be... He's a tall man.

I'm going to have you write my draft profile checks. He was basically the center on whoever, Arkansas, you know, Pine Bluff or whoever they played in the opener last year. Again,

it's maybe a bet on your developmental staff and like you are mentioned you're correct, I'm sure, like all the AAU stuff, but like he, is only 19. He's played so little basketball.

Like, if you can hand them to your developmental staff and, you know, Ron Adams, maybe you do have, you know, an All-Star Center by the age of 23, 24. And, you know, there's a lot of talk about the Warriors needing to maximize the asset now, maybe even trade it to, to, like, win next year or win in the next two years before Steph is aged too far out before this core is aged out. I think this is the perfect opportunity to worry about 2024, 2025, like get the

next guy to take the mantle from Steph Curry. Not that you're going to get Steph Curry 2.0, but at least a franchise face, try to get a superstar now or a guy that will be a superstar in 2024 when you don't have one anymore. Yeah. That's my concern here. It's just like how many of these draft picks are going to be

able to help in a regular season game, let alone a playoff game, let alone a playoff game against Anthony Davis. So I almost wonder if you want to think about bringing this guy off the bench and bringing them along slowly. And if that's the case, why not just take best player available, whether that's Wiseman or Edwards or whoever? Yeah, I think you could make the argument like Tyrese Halliburton would definitely be a better

rotation piece for the Warriors next year than James Wiseman. Or you could probably make the case for three other guys who won't go as high as James Wiseman. But I don't think they can only think about next year. And I agree with you. I think they're scouting and they're scouting. and they're scouting staff and they have scouted this draft

for many months now needs to take the best player available whoever they think it is. I'm not saying they have to agree with me and say it's Wiseman. I know a lot of people don't. Some do you guys think will be the best player

from this draft in 2024? And whoever that is, that's who they should take. See, that's interesting because that's what Rose just basically said the other day at a press conference and he was talking about like with this pick, I'm looking at it as a three, four year window.

And when my experience or guys make mistakes in the draft is they look forward the one-year guy because it's just unrealistic to draft a 19-year-old and not look at him at 24-25. That's the goal of a draft. It's not to win the title next season. That's just not how it works generally.

Unless you get Tim Duncan, which is there's no Tim Duncan's in this draft. I mean, to me all this speaks to the exceptionally kind of privileged place that teams like the Lakers operate from where they have LeBron and they bring in Anthony Davis and now of a sudden they don't have to worry, assuming Davis resigns, don't have to worry about the next five years of their future. You know, if you can time these things,

right. And this is, again, a very rare opportunity that the Warriors have. If they nail this pick and the player turns out to be the kind of prospect they think he is, I mean, that sets you up for a really long time. I do think it's interesting because the Warriors and the Lakers are kind of setting themselves off to be foiled in a lot of ways here. But like, I do wonder how much the warriors want to build their team in order to beat the Lakers. Like, they could just size up. I think that would be, it would make sense just on paper because you don't know if they have that sort of guy to guard Davis or maybe even Yokicch or something. of these other guys. But on the other hand, they did kind of make their bones. They built this

dynasty not really doing that. They went more wing, big wings and switching and all this other stuff. I wonder if there's a way to almost like keep leaning into that identity and make someone like Davis guard, let's say a Rudy Gay on the perimeter. And so is it worse to maybe like go for an Edwards type? And you're now looking at a death lineup of Dremont. Let's just assume it's Rudy gay who comes in on that trade exception. Wiggins. Clay staff with Edwards thrown in there? Is that like, I don't know, I do wonder if there's like a stylistic component to all of this.

I think they need to do both in a sense of they need a wing this summer and they need a big this summer. Now, you know, do you use the draft of the wing or the draft of the big and free agency or the trade exception for the other one? I don't know, but they need like, you know, I've mentioned Kelly Ubre as like a trade exception candidate that they could maybe go after like, you know, Rudy Gay, you mentioned it like they need depth there but you know we we view their past I think too much like

it was only small ball like for Kevin to Rand was like ninth in the league in block shots they don't have shot blocking anymore they were like they led the league in shot blocks I think three out of four year their last four years um and then last year they were like 25th I mean like they need rim protection bad and also they had big centers on their title teams I mean I know he's not sexy but like Zaza, David West, Javelle McGee, like they played roles. They need to find one of those guys this summer. I mean, Marquis, Chris, they're hyping up. And I do think Chris has some intriguing passing talents, almost like a David West style.

But they don't have a big to guard Davis. And I'm not even necessarily saying, you could draft Wiseman. They still try to get another one. Their dream scenario is Marcusole. But I don't even know if Marcusole staying in the United States. I mean. So Aaron Baines is another guy. I just don't know if it'll be in their price range,

but they need a big, and they've had a big in the past. And they need it more next year because of who they're probably going to go against the Nuggets and the Lakers. The Kavan Looney disrespect in this podcast will not stand. Will not stand. It's more of a switch big. But yeah. Well, I think it comes down to basically asset allocation just like in 2020, too.

Like can they find that player just on the. scrap heap. Can they find the next Dwight Howard? If Javelle McGee gets let go, can they just sign him, and all of a sudden you have a plug-and-play guy who's just large? You have a spot for large man, and you just fill that pretty easily these days.

They only have six to nine centers right now. They're two centers of Marquis, Chris, and Looney, as Rob mentioned, those are six-nine, like, Chris can get, Chris is like kind of somewhat of a high-flyer, but he's not like a rim-protectin big. And then Looney's like six-nine and doesn't jump, basically.

I mean, he has his skills. Their tallest players, Alan Smileyge, who we haven't mentioned, and I don't think we will mention next year because he's the ultimate project, but he's 6-10, he's their tallest player. And you mentioned, like, they did their own bubble practices, and you talk to the people, the coaching staff, everyone that was at the practices, it was like good. They said it was good to get the whole team in the room,

so you kind of know what you have. They're small, and they know they're small. And they were doing it during the Western Commerce Final, So they're going to practice, watching their small team practice, and then having watch parties watching Nicolai Yokic and Anthony Davis just like clash. And they're like, eh, might need to get big. And that's honestly when James Wiseman started

to become a larger conversation around the team. I'm not sure that's what's going to happen, but they know they need a big this summer. If they were going to go after a wing, who would it be in free agency? Have there already been names thrown out? It's like your middle-level exception wing kind of guy. You know, it's funny.

Early in the summer pre-bubble, it was like Jay Crowder would be a really good fit. I'm like Jay Crowder goes into the bubble and probably plays himself into, what, 10 million a year? Yeah. He might stay. So I'm not sure he's going to be there. I've floated Mo Harkless as I think, you know, a depth wing that could kind of come off the bench but could close at times if you wanted to have a small lineup. Mo Harkless has become the guy in free agency now who's like good enough but not really good.

It's like, oh, you can you can play some minutes on a good team but we won't want to pay you enough. Yep. He's a name you float. Yeah, exactly. And then, you know, you have, the trade exception does allow them to look at other names that aren't necessarily in the free agent pool. But, you know, again, like an Uber-A, but there's options, but they need one more for sure. I mean, I honestly, I can't even believe I'm bringing this up. I kind of like Michael Mulder as part of their depth next year.

He plays. He's really short, though, right? He's not ever... Yeah, he's more of a... Like, he'd be kind of like your guard. I've kind of compared him a little bit to, like, Caldwell Pope. Not that he was nearly as good at this point. And I can't believe we're now saying that about Kent Davies,

Caldwell Pope, but he's NBA champion. He was probably the third best player. But, yeah, he's kind of more of like a guard. This is Juan Tiscano Anderson disrespect, too. I mean, come on. Just left it right from Slater. Unbelievable. I think worth pointing out, too, as you'd mention this.

And you mentioned them kind of throwing in, who they throw in that trade from Minnesota. us, Spellman and Evans. Jacob Evans, yeah. Right, Evans was a first round pick.

I feel like they haven't had a first round pick in a while, right? They haven't hit. Yeah, they were known for their drafting and they haven't drafted well in quite a while now.

No, I mean, it is, it's interesting because it's, you know, it could be kind of excusable when you're picking at 28.

It's like, oh, you didn't hit on 28. It's like, did anyone hit on 28? It's kind of hard. But they, like,

Evans was a big whiff because they were, they drafted Evans saying, It's low ceiling, high floor, plug them in right away. Like, will he ever be terrific? No, we're not planning on that. He's just going to play 14 minutes off the bench. And he never did that.

Their best recent picks were actually the ones they bought. They went and bought Jordan Bell. And I know that Jordan Bell's flamed out of the league a bit, although now he's in Cleveland. I think he was on like five teams last year. He helped him in the NBA finals against Houston in the conference finals. And if you get that out of a 35th pick, that's good.

McCaw, very similar story to Jordan Bell, help them. Damien Jones was a bad first round pick from years ago. They've traded a couple of first rounders. I would say the best recent one was Looney. And that wasn't a home run pick, but it's just been a guy who helped them in the playoffs. And that's, when you're drafting 28th overall, 30th overall, you're just trying to get a helper. The thing is, now they're doing something. And this front office really hasn't done since Harrison Barnes,

which is high lottery pick. You have to hit on that. They have to hit on the number two pick. I just wonder like missing Travis Slank. He was kind of one of that big drafting guys. Jerry West too. They've had some kind of a brain drain in their front office last few years. Yeah.

And that happens with when you're successful, right? I mean, it's not just the front office. I mean, Travis Slink then came in and took their trainer at Chelsea Leng. And Sammy Gelfen, their analytical. politics guy goes to Detroit. I mean, they, they have kind of rearranged their, really, their organization overall. So, uh, fan favorite Mike Dunleavy will steps up to the plate now. Why is their entire front office nowadays just like everyone who's played for them in the last decade? Like, Leandro Barbrosa is basically like the assistant GM and like Zaza is hanging around

there. Sean Livingston's the big one. And I actually, Livingston, I do think, has a future in this. I mean, we'll see. A least one of them does. Yeah. Well, Zaza, they have doing everything. Like, Raymond Ritter's got him handing out pizzas to the Giants mascot, like, welcoming them to town. Zaza's like a really do everything role. I don't know that he's making, like, personnel decisions.

I'm interested with how living's, I mean, Livingston's only been there a month. So I don't know how much of an imprint he's going to have early on. But I'm optimistic about his future. Dunleavy's the interesting case because he, is not in the warrior's front office because he's some beloved former warrior, the fan base hates him. Every time anything goes

bad, like, from a front office perspective, they just want to blame him. And he may not have had anything to do with the move, but like he just, I don't know if you guys remember his history with the Warriors fan base. At one point, he was like yelling about the fans on his way out the door. He has nothing to do with this regime. The problem

was Bob Myers was his agent, and they're like really good friends. And so Bob Myers brought him on. And so, So that's how he's connected to the organization. But yeah, it's definitely a shifted different front office than the one that kind of built the dynasty a little bit. Although Myers is still at the top. Yeah, it's definitely a big trial by fire here for Myers, considering what a charmed life he's led over the past couple of years. Speaking of Charmed Lives, the other team that we've been talking around here, who also has a pretty fascinating offseason is the Lakers.

Rob Polinka didn't waste much time this offseason, already talking about how he's going after his next big star. He basically was like, we have the cap space. If you look at our books, yada yada, we can add someone pretty good here. And he's right.

The Lakers kind of find themselves now in the situation that he did in their second year with LeBron James, where they already had a stack team, but they had to gut it in order to get those stars. And then all of a sudden they had Shane Betty in, that was the piece that really even made them better. The Lakers have that ability with their mid-level exception, although they also have already won a title. So they're a little bit ahead of the curve here. And then we could also talk about trade candidates later on. But I first want to

talk about this mid-level, which the financials are a little bit hazy. It's basically like if the tax is high enough, they could use probably the full non-taxpayer mid-level, which is about 10 million and considering no team has cap space, that's pretty much like as much as most teams can offer. They have to retain a lot of their guys because KCP, as we mentioned before, has a player option. Rondo has a player option. Dwight is an unrestricted free agent. Kyle Kuzma might be pushing for a contract extension to this off-season. So there's a lot going on here. But if they just retain some semblance of what they had here and add another guy at the B plus level.

They could be significantly better. I think I'm curious what they need right now. They're looking at the market and you want to add a next high level piece. Slater, you watch them throughout the playoffs. Is there any obvious candidate or just like player type you think they could focus on here with this mid-level? I do like Gallinari if they could somehow, you know, if they can use the full mid-level and if he just can't find a bigger offer elsewhere.

just like, you know, even putting, when they put Markief Morris out there as like a stretch big next to Davis, it was like, whoa, you know, this is super dangerous. Justin, you know this from the New Orleans days. Remember when Miritage came and it was like, whoa, Mirage next to Davis? This is like really unlocked everything. So I think Gallinari would be perfect. I just, I don't know price wise if that'll be available to them. What do you guys think about a trade? You know, maybe it's Kuzma and like Danny Green's contract. And you go after all at D.T. I think it's high risk, I reward,

but I do think if they add a guard, like if Ola Depot is near, you know, 80% of what he was pre that bad injury he had, like that could be intriguing because they do kind of need it. Well, maybe they don't.

They just won the title, so they don't maybe need anything, but like a third score, third start. It was very weird to go through the playoffs and you're like, who's the third best player on this team? I guess it's called Well Pope.

Like it was kind of strange. Yeah, so just to set this up here, they basically have enough expiring contracts or to aggregate enough salary to get someone like Ola Depot, a high-level veteran superstar. I think they actually have enough if everything works right to get enough to match or get close to Chris Paul's number.

And the sweetener you would think would be Kuzma and their first round this year, which I believe they have to actually draft first before they trade it. So in essence, they could turn this just like morass of like. averageness into a third star here. Rob, what do you think? Is Oladipo someone who would make sense? And I guess the question is for a lot of these teams is Maras plus Coosmo plus a first enough for you to trade them.

I think the tricky thing with Oladipo is you have the dual risk, right? You have not only the fact that he's dealing with this pretty significant injury and still trying to become himself again, but even if he does, he could just leave in free agency. And, you know, especially if the situation, situation isn't quite what he wanted. You know, if he wants a little more responsibility, we saw in Oklahoma City, you know, he kind of chafed a little bit. I think he learned a lot in that spot, but wanted more of a role in terms of creating the offense. If you're a clear

third guy with the Lakers, that's just a different kind of life than what you're used to. That said, when you're looking at the other stars they could trade for, everyone has some of these question marks. You're either trading for a guy like Chris Paul, who's pretty old. You're either trading for a guy whose game doesn't quite fit like a Demardor Rosen type. It's hard to find the player who's exactly right. I really do like the idea of having a guard, like a pick and rule guard when LeBron's not in the game that run the offense.

That makes a ton of sense to me, like scheme-wise. But it feels like to me, this is more of a 2021 conversation. Because I'm looking at it like, LeBron's got an opt-out for next summer. And if 80 signs a one-in-one, he could have an opt-out for next summer too. And then it's like, well, if they both opt-out,

maybe they both take a little less. And then we're talking about getting a third legitimate max player in there. And if you're LeBron going for your sixth ring, I would imagine LeBron's not going to let his annual salary impact that chase, would be my guess. Well, I think that's why some of the other moves they might have to make here are so fascinating.

So let's say they want to keep KCP and the bidding starts to get up there. We're talking about $12 million. He's probably not going to sign a one-year manna from heaven sort of deal here. he's probably going to cut into your cap going into the following season. Rondo is all of a sudden, like, might be worth a two-year deal. And so there are probably enough contracts where they're probably still maintain a max slot two years from now.

I mean, I'd have to really go into the financials, but like it gets pretty complicated, especially if you want to use the mid-level to help your team this year, right? And so they're in this weird position where you really sacrifice the now and worry about, instead of like going a year from now, when LeBron will be, what, 35, 36. So I don't know. I think if they can get someone like an Oladipo, like maybe even like a Kevin Love type,

that would make them interesting this year while still potentially having like a runway here. Kevin Love. How many years Kevin Love have left on his deal? I think it's three. Too many is the answer. I think it's way too many. But I mean, if you have Anthony Davis protecting him

instead of Tristan Thompson, I don't know, maybe that makes it more palatable. Because of the conversation you guys were just having is why, like, Ola Depot probably makes him most sense because he's expiring. And he's kind of bargain-bin superstar shopping where, you know, I don't know if he's still a superstar. I don't think it'll cost too much because that Indiana situation seems like it's kind of, you know, it almost seems like the patients are ready to go, yeah, sure, yeah, come on.

We'll take some assets. It's the last year of his deal. You might be leaving anyways. And then you just experiment with Ola-Dipo next year. hope he recovers and if he becomes your third star, wow, maybe you re-sign him and he's your third star or it doesn't work out and you've created, you know, he's an expiring. You've created the slot to go after somebody else. So that's almost, to me, that almost seems like the smooth, this easiest off-season move or they run it back. I mean, that's the other option, right? They just-

Well, based on that thinking, what do we think about DeRosen? I know Rob Poopoed this, but he's also a free agent two years from now. And I wonder if he does enough to where he gets. And I wonder if he gives you a little bit of an upgrade without sacrificing that. And you don't have to worry as much about like the injury concerns about him not being there. Because this is a pretty significant move here. If you're going to get rid of all of those other guys, you're basically going to have to fill everyone's role with like minimum contracts. And you're going from a Avery Bradley type to whatever is below Avery Bradley type. So you're hoping to find more Caruso. So this is a pretty significant decision here. So I don't know. I think DeRosen makes some sense. I would

be curious what the defense looks there, but I don't know. What do you think, Charx? 28 million. There's a lot of salary to give up to get DeRosen. And I think to take it back a second, if I'm Indiana, I don't really want Kyle Kuzma for Oladipo. I always run it back at that point. That's all you're giving me is Ola Dippa, as Kuzman a one first round pick? Because you have no picks similar trade, right? Your assets are pretty much non-existent at this point. Do you think Oladipo is getting dramatically more than that? I mean, he's a really tough sell, I think, just because of what we talked about, who's going to invest in him without the knowledge

that he's going to be around beyond one season? Well, I'm saying you're just going to keep him, I guess. There's not going to be traded at all. That'd be my assumption. The other thing that Ola Depot gives you that guys like DeRosen don't is, at this point, if you're the Lakers, as Slater is saying, run it back,

that's totally fine. You're the defending champions. Clearly, you have a great team. My concern for the couple years coming up is how do we we wean ourselves off of leaning on Rajan Rondo as much as we did, both because he may not be in our team. He may be out of the league.

He may retire at some point. He's getting up there in age to the point where you want to start thinking about who is our ball handler, who is our secondary pick and roll guy, like Charks mentioned. How do we find that player? Oladipo is probably the best of that group

that you can find in terms of who might be available. But otherwise, I mean, I don't know that there are a lot of great options out there that fit that particular need. Yeah, I do love the idea of getting another playmaker in there. I think there's probably some in the bargain bin that could also be successful here. I know they dance around Derek Rose at the trade deadline.

I feel like he would probably be an easier fit there. And as we've seen, LeBron kind of has a Doc Rivers style of GMing here, where he just wants guys who he's beat in the playoffs or just like gone against in competitive games here. The list definitely gets short pretty quickly. But I don't know, maybe a Dennis Schroeder type. And the one we should probably talk about is

Trudor's teammate right now is Chris Paul. Like that is the nuclear option here. you would have to gut your entire team probably to do it. But is Paul someone you can count on for two years? Maybe you'll line your contract with LeBron. And all of a sudden, it's Paul A.D. LeBron. Then nobody, right? I mean, they'd have to just.

Yeah. I don't even know. 38 million would be tough. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess you would trade them Carouse. You'd trade them everybody. I could see LeBron's liking that move.

I don't. but I could, you know, I can see Chris Paul liking that move. I don't think that's the right move. I think they should keep a bulk of their depth. Honestly, if you said Chris Paul and you got the roster or you just keep the roster pretty much intact and you go at it again, I would say go at it again. I mean, you prove and you can win that way.

I like the Schrooter idea. That I think is a nice middle ground tier because Shooter's a 15 million. Kuzman Green for Schrooter, I could go with that. then you could still start Bradley KCP. Shooter's probably sixth man in the year. You have Shooter Rondo Caruso. I think Schroeder, he's out one-thotless contract. He's still pretty young.

He was sixth man last year. That to me kind of fits all the criteria. That gets you like, it's a win now guy. He's not too old. You can bring him back. Not a huge salary. Helps with your play, making off the bench. He'd be awesome.

And him and AD together. I like that shooter idea a lot, actually. I do too. it helps them shooting wise and like that was their weakness that never really showed but like they were like the 23rd rank three point shooting team last year um my concern with him and i you know i do think it's a very good bench option is like he doesn't fit their like defensive mold that they're like kind of built like in this frank vogel yeah we might not be able to shoot threes it's just like everyone defends in the rotation um he just doesn't really i mean like that's but you know you add some

shooting and some playmaking here, you lose some defense there. It's kind of, I guess, the balance of building a roster. Yeah, it does feel like the big equation here is, is not just the trade itself, but what's the trickle down effect is? Because if they do get rid of some of these just guys that the 3 and D guys that really made their defense, then you're having to replace them with minimum guys. And there is, I think, a pretty stark difference between Navie Bradley and whoever you're going to pick up off the scrap heap, which makes me wonder if they can't swing a trade, if there isn't someone that immediately fits into what they do if their best option isn't to just go ahead with what they have and then just use the full med level at 10 million. You're already looking

at a player who is probably one of the better players on the market. Slater mentioned Gallinari. I wonder if the big market, specifically the shooting big market is so robust now that that makes a lot of sense to go to. So we mentioned Marcus Saul earlier for the Warriors is like a dream scenario. I wonder if the Lakers pay him more and all of a sudden he's coming back from the beach in Barcelona and he's playing next to AD and that that seems like a really nice fit. I also think Serge Baca is someone who could be interesting. Aaron Baines, we mentioned before. I feel like Aaron Baines is quietly becoming one of the most important players on the free agent market. He hits like threes now. It looks very strange, but he hits threes. He broke Steph's hand though.

That's a tougher sell for the word. Can't do that. I like a Baca for either California. I don't I think Toronto's probably gonna give him a balloon one-year deal, right? Just to stay and that makes sense but if he becomes available Yeah, I guess the bigger mid-level will get the Lakers the advantage but like either team and the way he like it's the rare He shoots threes and he block shots and like that's just tough to find and if you can find that on bargain bin shopping like that's perf Slater can you summon DeMarcus cousins at all like we got optimistic about this? I don't know He'll be back. Cousins for who?

Which teams? I mean, look. Like, I have Achilles tear, blew out his quad in the playoffs. Pretty sadly. I don't know if you remember when he had the steel and he kind of blew it out. That's kind of a forgotten injury here. And then blows out his knee. I don't know how you trust that.

I mean, he was already kind of a guy who, like, the legs seem to, you know, be aging. And three just major, massive, serious injuries in. I think it was like 14 months time, 15 months time. He, you know, he screwed up all those ligaments. I mean, on a minimum, on a flyer, basically, but definitely not in any way building the roster relying on him. Also, I don't know where the shot is. He came to the Warriors and it was billed as like, well, he's going to stretch the floor.

He shot like 29% from 3, so I don't know. I also don't want to breeze over the idea of bringing back all the guys that they already had on the team for the Lakers, just because, as Justin laid out, there's kind of a tight rope you're walking here in terms of the luxury tax apron. The Lakers are going to pay the tax, but if they want to use that full mid-level exception,

they're hard caps. And so it's can we afford KCP and Rondo? And all of a sudden, not only Dwight is going to be a free agent, also Marquif Morris, who played more minutes in the finals than Dwight and Javille combined. Like, can we pay him to keep him?

you know, Javale could at free agency if he wants to, can you do all of these things and pay the full mid-level and potentially, as we've been talking about, make a trade where you're taking on more salary while trading Kuzma or whoever, it just starts getting really, really tight. And I think, you know, that's where the Lakers have to, you know, mind their peas and cues, so to speak, in terms of really fine-tuning salary-wise what they're taking in and out because it could really get in the way of some of their plans. Well, that's why I wonder if the path of least resistance is maybe to swing a trade and then you're not worrying as much about the dance of mid-level and you're using maybe the taxpayer mid-level or just like a portion of it and that becomes

more of a rotational guy rather than just like a foundational guy. So it's really, I mean, ultimately kind of boils down to the cap math here. It's really complicated. But I don't know, it's pretty fascinating that the Lakers could and seem likely to be better next year than they are this year already. And have that chance in the future to take an even big, bigger swing on a, you know, free agent or player to be traded later. You know, they, they're in really an ideal position as far as defending champions go. They don't have the young talent that's coming up, but they have a lot of flexibility considering where they are. I also think there's like a big possibility here that the LeBron factor comes into play and all of a sudden if Rondo wants

to go for more money or something and he just wants to keep him, then all of a sudden you're paying Rondo to your contract. Maybe Tristan Thompson all of a sudden is taking discounts and New Orleans Noel is on the roster again. Like I do feel like this is a much more difficult situation than even like the Warriors perhaps. But we'll see. I think it's a good place to end it. Slater, thanks so much for joining us.

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for coming on, man. We will be back next week. And I think it's the day, the morning after the election. So that will be a fun one. Sure everyone would be looking to talk about the off season. Oh, yeah. I got a Tuesday podcast and we're like,

talking about it yesterday like, gosh, are we talking next week? Should we talk next week? Maybe we should take a week off. Maybe we'll compare NBA teams to presidential candidates. It's always fun to play with the theme. It goes very well. But it's something to look forward to. We'll be back then for all of us for Sasha production. We'll see you next time.