The Ringer NBA Show - The Degenerate’s Guide to the NBA Playoff Race | Heat Check

Episode Date: March 18, 2019

Resident gambling degenerate Joe House gives his predictions for how the playoff race will shake out in each conference (4:05). Plus: New York Knicks owner James Dolan was in the headlines for all the wrong reasons last week; will he ever sell the team? (38:46) Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Joe House, Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly, and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. March Madness tips off on Thursday, and to get your bracket set, make sure you listen and subscribe to our college basketball experts on One Shining Podcast with Mark Titus and Tate Fraser. Also on Monday, be sure to watch the guys on their live selection show, recapping the seatings from Selection Sunday, and previewing the top matchups to look forward to. You can check out the show on YouTube and listen to One Shining podcast on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez.

Join as I am every week by my producer, Isaac Lee. Isaac, we were both out of town this weekend. You went to San Francisco. I was in Big Bear in the Mountains here in California. But like good basketball aficionados that we are, we just watched hoops the entire time. Right, right. We just went to our respective destinations, and we busted out our tablets and computers and just watch hoops. All basketball all the time.

I did, however, get a chance to pause and check out the reviews from, last week's show. So, Isaac, in the history of Heechek, as our resident Heechek historian, have we, and then, like, I know we do that bit a lot, but this time of being absolutely serious, have you ever seen as much reaction to a guest or a topic as we got from one Tyler Times, who is now simultaneously the most loved and hated guest in Heechak history? I don't think I've ever seen this on any kind of podcast or any kind of creative output that I've ever put out. Like, it's really astonishing to see one side of people. people being like, I love this guy, have him on every week, and the other side being like,

I hated hearing all of his takes. It was truly incredible. If you missed last week's show, we had staff writer Tyler Tynes on for the first time ever. And he is, I've known him since he was a kid. He was an intern back when I was a columnist at the Philadelphia Inquirer. And he is what you might call an acquired taste. A provocateur, if you will. I love him.

There are other people who love him and evidently some people who don't. But we appreciate all the feedback that you guys gave us. We hope you'll continue to listen. We'll have times on. Again, he was a lot of fun. I want to say thank you for listening and remind you to please rate and review us in all of our fantastic Ringer NBA shows and pods.

We have lots of great content on the ringer selection. Sunday just happened, so you get all your NCAA content. Titus and Cram both have pieces up there. One Shining podcast came out hot. You want to check that out. KOC has a piece that's sort of a hybrid that explains why NBA teams must do whatever it takes

to get one Zion. And then in the NBA realm, Palo has a piece on why the line loss of one Malcolm Brogden, the worst rookie of the year ever, who stole it, Isaac. He stole it from Joel Embed. It's actually a bummer for the bucks that could really use him right about now. They just lost a really fun game to watch to the Philadelphia 76ers. And NBA desktop with Jason Concepcion. They've been killing it all year. But Isaac, you made your triumphant return. Ice to Ice is back. We made a song called SELDA Team based on The Beatles Let It Be. And it's

pretty self-explanatory. It's aimed towards James Dolan. When you get your egot, will you continue to be my producer, or will he check be too below you at that point? He-Chick will never be too below me, John Gonzalez. I like that about you. We're going to listen to that song a little bit later. We're going to have Dan Devine on the program to talk about the Knicks and spiraling James Dolan, who just gets angry all the time and yells at people. So we'll talk to Devine about the Nix and his other, he wrote about the five most interesting teams of the week per usually, he does that every week. So we'll get into some of those with him later on in the program. But first, The playoffs, they're creeping.

They're coming, Isaac. And we figured we'd look at the playoffs to a different perspective. We're going to play a little game where we place our bets on different things that we think might happen in the playoffs. And for that, we need somebody who's fun, but also a degenerate. Let's bring him in. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining us on the other line, one of my absolute favorites from Fairway Rowland, his new golf podcast, and House of Carbs.

He had me on for the first time ever. I was so excited to talk about all the food I ate in Greece. Joe House is here. Yay, yay! What up, buddy? What up, Godso? We're doing yet another House of Carbs, heat check crossover. I love it.

The more we can cross over, the better. Alan Iverson approves. Yes, in honor of Alan Iverson, we dedicate this podcast. I thought I'd have you on because, you know, we're in that period now where we're waiting for the playoffs to start. And a lot of the teams, especially in the West, look like they're locked in. In the East, there could be like a little bit of drama with that last, with that eight seed.

But mostly we're just waiting. So I thought we'd do a thing where we place some bets on teams and players that we think might be good in the playoffs, might be bad in the playoffs. And who better than you? You're my favorite degenerate. So I thought, you know, we'll bring House in for this. I'm honored. Believe me. I mean, you could have gone to Cousin's Dell.

Any of his degenerate trifecta, those guys are all over the NBA action. But I'm glad you came to me. I do have some wrongs that need to be righted. You know, Bill Simmons and I at the beginning of each NBA season, try and do our best. at forecasting the fortunes of the teams, our NBA over-unders, I don't know how we're going to do, but I do know we are going to fail miserably on a handful of our prognostications. So I like having this little opportunity.

Well, we said the Lakers were not only going to make the playoffs, but we're going to be like a top three or four seed. So that's not happening. So I always love that podcast that you do with Bill. It's one of my favorites of the year. I was right there with you on the Lakers. Isaac and Powell have been busting my balls about the Lakers all season long. I had them third behind the Warriors and the Rockets in the West.

And House, I don't think that one's going to come home for me. This is one of those classic examples of future results cannot be based on previous experience. All right. So let's get into this. Let's start in the Eastern Conference. As I mentioned, as drama goes, this is probably it for who's going to make the playoffs. and it's who's going to make it into that eight seed. So the options are the heat, the magic, the hornets.

And for this team, I just put LOL on the outline. That's your Washington Wizards. Oh, God. The heat are in command of that eight spot right now. A game behind them are the magic, two games behind them are the Hornets. And then in the distance there are the Washington Wizards, but still not statistically eliminated. So place your bet on who you think will get that eight seed.

I believe it's going to be the Miami Heat for a couple of reasons. First of all, they actually seem to be intending to make the playoffs this year. They have a goal and intention. And I think it's just part of the Pat Riley DNA and what that franchise hopes to do in terms of acquiring players, as long as they're around the rim and competitive in terms of just making the playoffs year over year. Miami takes care of itself. There's no income tax in Florida. So I think, you know, the one last run out of Pat Riley out of this upcoming free agent class,

you know, he's got one more set of surprises I anticipate. So them being in the playoffs helps with that narrative. They're trying. They're not going to, you know, tank over these last 10, 11 games and miss the playoffs. I also had the displeasure of watching the Orlando Magic play my own Washington Wizards. Wow, you watch that game? I watched quite a bit of it. You know, we're in this incredible run by Bradley Beale.

Yes. So he is, he is the reason to watch any anything involving Washington. and I expected to see an Orlando team threatening to make the playoffs with goals and intentions with aspirations of rewriting their own narrative. They sucked. So, you know, congratulations to them at least being relevant in this conversation,

but I don't know who they are. Aaron, Gordon, Jonathan Isaac, Vucevich. Oh, D.J. Augustine and Ross. Fornier, right. Terrence Ross. Like, you know, fine, sure. They just, you know, aren't moving the needle for them. me. So the heat is my selection for that slot. I'm with you on Orlando. Orlando has all year long, like, everybody you talked to in the league will say, like, Orlando really wants to make the

playoffs. It's important to them. They're trying. So they're doing like two things simultaneously. One, they're trying to get better and make the playoffs too. They're also, as you mentioned, trying to develop all these young players that you just outlined. And it's kind of stuck them in like a weird middle spot. They've just been like sort of sub 500 all year and like trying to get on the come, but it's been difficult. Whereas like, the mind. Sammy Heat have this history under Pat Riley of they hate to tank. They're trying to, you know, make the playoffs and then add people in free agency. And, you know, Pat Riley said that, you know, this season hasn't been good enough and they're going to reboot and he's dedicated to that.

And to your point about, like, them not just sort of throwing it away towards the end of the season. They've won seven of their last 10. They're a professional organization where as the magic are still trying to figure it out and the Hornets are still trying to figure it out and the Wizards of the Wizards of the Wizards. By the way, did you see who the Magic recently signed? Did I see who the magic read? No, I haven't been tracking the, the magic free agent wire. 10-day contract for your guy, MCW. Why is he my guy?

I don't know. He can't be my guy either. Michael Carter Williams and Markel Fultz on the same team. I mean, this is a league where Trey Burke has a job. So what, what do you want to say? Fair enough. You know what? I'm rooting for Michael Carter Williams.

That's got to be really tough, man. Can you imagine, like, you start out, you're obviously the prototype of the good stats, bad team guy when he was playing for the Sixers at the very beginning of the tank era. And he wins rookie of the year. And then he gets traded. And then, you know, before he knows it, he's like just trying to catch on in the league. Then he ends up with the rockets. And that's obviously a bad fit because he can't shoot. And then all of a sudden he's out for a while.

And now he's on a 10 day with the magic. My God, what a fall. Well, it's a case study in how. important it is when you get that first contract, when you arrived in the league, take that money and stick it into an interest-bearing account. 7% is fine. And if you want to buy a house, a house is okay. Just make sure it's in a location that's likely to hold its value. You can look up the historical results year over year. This is my free financial advice to every NBA rookie. Stick that money on that first NBA contract in the bank. Six percent is okay. Seven percent is fine.

8% is a home run. Just let that money compound. Don't go out and buy a bunch of garbage like jewelry and nonsense stuff. We're going to get you a financial podcast after this. That was very Herm Edwards of you. Herm used to say all the time, like you don't need two cars. You can only drive one at a time. This is sound advice.

When I sign my first NBA contract, I'm coming to you. Okay, good. I'll help. You're going to manage my money. All right. So we're eliminating the whiz. The whiz are terrible. The hornets are too far back.

I don't see the magic pulling it off. I'm with you. I think it's going to be the heat. And I think it should be the heat. And by the way, if you are, right now it would be the Bucks in the heat. Yeah. And the Bucks just lost Malcolm Brogden, who, you know, I make fun of Malcolm Brogden, but he's a useful piece.

He soaks up a lot of minutes for them. Yeah, yeah. So that makes them a little bit thinner. I mean, if you're the Bucks, are you a little bit worried about the heat? No. Nah. I am bum, though, that the Bucks don't have Brogden. I wanted them to arrive in their playoffs with their full complement

and all of the chemistry that they developed over the season, which I think has been as much. as anything, a big contributor to their success this season. Speaking of 10-day contracts, I mean, they need a, they need that body to take up some of those Brogden minutes. Yeah, that should have jumped on that MCW train. He's, I mean, one from one rookie of the year to the other, right? He was available.

Yeah, he was. All right, let's do another one here. Give me your team that you think will be the biggest surprise in the playoffs. And we could go a lot of different ways on this because I think, like, interestingly, in the same way that, like, the Eastern Conference is just sort of a jumble and who knows what's going to happen. Outside of the Warriors, I could see anybody in the Western Conference advancing. Yeah, I feel the exact same way. Unfortunately, you're going to be mad at me, and I can't believe I'm on the same line of thinking as Stephen A. Smith on this. But I believe the biggest surprise in the playoffs,

unfortunately, is the Boston Celtics. No. They are my pick to win the Eastern Conference in the 2019. I'm going to start booing on this podcast. My new thing's going to be booing, and I'm booing you now. It's your pod. You can boo. I don't know what to tell you. They are predictably rounding into form. It has been unpredictable. We thought that they'd be rounding into form.

There was like three different times over the course of this season that Bill Simmons came on and said, oh, it looks like they have it figured out. And each time they did not have it figured out, I'm sad to say it does seem like they may have it figured out in this last little bit of like 15 to 20 games. It seems like Kyrie has shut up. He has attempted to mend fences. apparently there was a plane ride from the west east coast to the west coast where they all got on the same page.

These injuries that Al Horford and Gordon Hayward experienced over the weekend, honestly, are somewhat lessings in disguise in this way. Horford, it gives him the excuse that he needs to go ahead and rest. He needs to rest. These next 12 games really don't matter to the Celtics because they're pretty locked in. It seems to the five seat, I believe is that right there in the five seat? Right now they're in the five. They end up playing the Pacers.

I think, like, from a purely academic standpoint, your pick makes sense because I, you know, we were talking about the Pacers and, like, I don't know who their best player is. They'd just been sort of plugging along and being competent all season without Oladipo and good for them. But the Celtics on paper have a lot more talent. The thing here is, though, at present, the Pacers would have home court advantage. The Celtics, much better at home in Boston than they are on the road. They're 26 and 10 at home. They're 500 away from the garden house. So, like, I wonder if that would matter.

And again, the Pacers are kind of plucky. I love the Pacers. What a great story. What an organization that was confronted with really an existential kind of a crisis with Paul George saying he wanted to leave. And, you know, what were they going to do? And they make a trade that nobody saw coming. And then were roundly criticized for what they got back in that trade with Sabonis and Oladip. And by golly, they are not only in the upper.

echelon of the east. They lost their best player and still they're out there busting their ass showing a level of commitment. Like if I had, I wish I had Indiana season tickets. That's a franchise that gives a shit about its fans. They're out there trying. Let's not get crazy here. I mean, like, you gotta maybe pump the brakes on that one a little bit because I, like, I, all credit to the Pacers for doing what they've done and like still staying in that through four or five Mexican. Lately haven't been as good, but still plugging along, but still kind of a rough watch. I mean,

like, you're looking at Bogdanovich and Thad out there, and I'm like, all right. And also, the schedule maker's house, I've not done them any favors. For the second year in a row, they have a brutal and protracted West Coast road trip right now, where they just lost by two to Denver. They're in Portland tonight. They play in L.A. against the Clippers tomorrow. They've got Golden State on Thursday. Then they're home against Denver again.

Then they're back on the road for an OKC Boston road trip to Gamer, which is kind of crazy. So, like, if they come out of this, still in that three, four, five mix, good for them. But I don't know about watching them. That's a little bit. It's different. Well, let's stop because that's the most of the Pacers have been discussed probably on this podcast or a podcast the entire season. All right. But I like that.

I like your Celtics pick. I don't like it, but you know what I mean. All right. So for me, you could go a lot of different ways here. I think like in the Eastern Conference, you know, if you are, say, the Raptors or the Sixers and you're looking at potentially a first round matchup with the Nets or the Pistons, that probably doesn't make me feel super great about it. I'm going to go to the Western Conference

where I think basically everything is up for grabs. I could see the 4-5 matchup is the Blazers or the Thunder. I could see either of them advancing. I don't see the Spurs getting past the rockets. The interesting part here for me is who the nuggets draw.

Because it's right now looking like the jazz or the clippers. So you've got to know your audience. We always say that here at He-check. I'm going to pick the Clippers for my pleasant surprise. I'm going to hand her to my producer, Isaac Lee. Unbelievable.

I'm going to say the Clippers end up in that 2-7 matchup with the Nuggets. And if I'm the Nuggets, I don't want any part of the way the Clippers are playing right now. Lou Williams is killing it. Gallo is killing it. Montrez is killing it. Like, that team is just, they're the Pacers, but even more professional, even more talented. They don't have one single guy who you could point to and go, oh, he's clearly their best guy. They just have a lot of talented people across the board.

And by the way, House, as a golfer, how much money would you have bet that by now at this point in his career, that Doc Rivers would be out golfing somewhere instead of coaching. This is the most incredible story of this NBA season. It's one of the top three stories of the NBA season, maybe not the most incredible. And I feel somewhat disappointed that I didn't have the opportunity to come on somebody's podcast on the ringer.com and make this point, like three weeks ago, I sat down in my own leisure time and took notice of what the Clippers have been doing because I wanted to look at the odd, speaking of degener gambling,

for Doc Rivers to win coach of the year. Now, I don't believe that he's going to win coach of the year. And by the way, Gonzo, I don't know how close you are to ice right now. Make sure there's at least a 10-inch radius. I want you at least 10 inches away from ice because that's his boner zone right there. I don't want you anywhere near ice

during this portion of our chat and anything to have me to do with the clippers because the clippers really are an incredible feel-good story. season, a real testament to a franchise that's out there busting their ass. Speaking of a team that wanted to make the playoffs, they're reloading, not rebuilding. And holy cow, are they poised for something great to happen this summer? So what a nice run they've been on. Doc Rivers definitely deserves to be in this conversation for coach of the year.

I don't know who the Clippers best player is, Gonzo. Yeah. And like you said, they're in a position right now where not only they're good right now, but they've got those two max slots this off season, the summer. and they could be really good instead of just like, you know, functional and professional. Isaac, how excited are you right now that we're giving your clippers all this love?

This is amazing. I feel like the clippers never get any love. I have to like sneak it into the outline. I have to like, you know, a lot of times, like, you'll send me the rough outline and I'll like control F clippers and I'll type in clippers and there's no clippers mentioned, so I'd to like sneak it in there.

But you guys are doing it on your own. This is my favorite three-minute stretch of the heat check ever. Ever. The only thing I don't like about the clippers, and I really wish they would remedy this, but they won't because they just changed it in the first place. Their logo and their, like, uniform aesthetic is an abomination. It sucks.

It's actually a crime. It's a crime against fashion. This is not hard. I mentioned this on our Slack before. This is not hard. It's very simple, right? Clean and classic, greater than symbol, weird Microsoft logos and updates. Like, in every instance, in every sport, like the Jets are thinking about changing their uniform,

their current uniforms are beautiful. Old Eagles uniforms, better than current Eagles uniforms. The old Patriots logo with the colonial guy hiking the football, better than the current space, weird patriot. Always, old and clean and classic, greater than simple. Always. You're not going to get any argument out of me. All right, that's my rant for the day. All right, House, before we do more questions, let's take a quick pause for a word from our sponsors. Today's episode of Heech is brought to you by ZipRecruiter.

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All right, so we had the biggest surprise. Which team will be the most disappointing in the playoffs? I again somewhat regret sharing my observation on this point because this is a team and a franchise that I greatly admire and I honestly believe that this team has the MVP of the league on it. I think that the Milwaukee Bucks are going to be disappointing this year because I don't think that they're going to win the Eastern Conference. As I just shared, I think the Boston Celtics are going to win the Eastern Conference. And for a team that on a sort of differential basis has had a historical season in terms of its performance, I do. against its opponents over the course of an 82 game season, these bucks deserve better,

ought to be in the Eastern Conference finals, duking it out with whoever. I guess that would be the Sixers or Toronto. I just don't think they're going to get past the Celtics. So they're going to be my biggest disappointment. Wow, you have them losing to the Celtics. You've got the Celtics in the conference finals? I do.

Already. I do. I hate this. I hate everything about this. I don't know if Simmons put you up to this. No, he didn't. I think it's going to be the Celtics and the Raptors for the Eastern Conference final. All right. So that's fine. It's a fine pick for both ends. But I'm going to go a different way. In the Western Conference, I was thinking about there's a couple of different ways I could have gone here.

With the Blazers losing CJ and who knows when he's going to come back, he's going to be re-evaluated in a week. That's a big time blow to them. I don't want to pick the Blazers, though. I had previously said, hey, the Clippers, if they end up playing against the Nuggets, that could be bad news for the Nuggets, at which point the Nuggets would be top of my mind for the the team that's most disappointing because they've been so good all season. I also had the bucks on my list as a potential disappointing team. OKC. Previously, House, I was saying their defense is so good they might be able to give the Warriors fits if they somehow ran into the Warriors. They just got crushed by the Warriors by 22 points at home. Like, I was excited about OKC. Now I'm not excited. But this is going to be my pick because you forced me into it. You bet. I'm excited for this.

You knew what was going to happen. I'm going to go with your Boston Celtics as the most disappointing team in the playoffs. That's great. In the same way that LeVar Ball said, he had to speak Lonzo to the Lakers, I'm going to speak this into existence. I'm going to say the Boston Celtics, after all of us, myself included, anticipated that they would be the best team in the Easter conference this season and for many seasons moving forward and they're so deep and blah, blah, blah. No, I'm going to say no plane ride will save them. They're going down in the first round. In the first round?

Why not? to the Pacers? I'm all Indiana all the time now. Now I'm getting Indiana season tickets. This isn't going to happen. I just wanted to. That's funny. I enjoy it.

Go that direction. I do want to take note. You know, you went through very briefly there. The West is insane right now. It really is. Everybody from the four seed through the eight seed, barely like a game and a half separates them two games max. And you could really, you know, these matchups start to get really delicious and really

interesting. If Denver pulls Utah in the first round, that is going to be a knockdown dragout. Utah's net differential is third in the Western Conference right now, just behind Golden State and Denver. And Utah has been rounding in the form. I had them winning 50 games this season. It looks like they might come up just short. They have to go 10 and 3 over the next 13 games, which is possible. But they really seem to be finding their stride. And their defensive identity, speaking of defense, and defense in playoffs, and Denver, the lack of playoff experience that Denver has, Utah could be a problem. Yeah, this is what I'm saying about with the Nuggets. I'm nervous if I'm a Nuggets fan.

In fact, the way I'm looking at the Western Conference right now, I only have confidence in two teams for sure to advance in the first round. That's the Warriors and the Rockets. After that, the Nuggets, who knows if they end up with the Jazz or the Clippers, I'm not super confident that the Nuggets advance. And then that four or five matchup right now is Blazers Thunder flip a coin for me. So like you really could put those teams in a hat and pick one out and be like, yeah, they advanced. That makes sense to me. That's great. I mean, I'm excited for it.

All right. Let's do another one. Give me the player in the Eastern Conference playoffs that will be the guy that's going to carry their team. The best player in the Eastern Conference playoffs coming up. With all due respect, there's four names that deserve recognition and credit. So all do respect to Kyrie Irving. All do respect to Joel Embed. Which, by the way, this is the first time we've mentioned them, the Sixers on this podcast.

I'm not doing a bit right now. I'm being serious. That makes me a little nervous. They go out and they load up their roster. And at no point where we're like, you know who's going to be really good in the playoffs? I think it's going to be the Sixers. Well, let's talk about this real quick then. Here's the problem with the Sixers.

They don't have a talent problem. They have a coach problem. I don't understand this this Brett Brown disdain. Tynes did this bit last week. I think Brett is perfectly fine. I don't know whether or not it's disdain. Just prove it. Go show it.

Here's the thing. I watch the Sixers. I've seen a lot of their games. They've been deservedly on a lot of national TV. Inside of four minutes, which is the only barometer for me, that's when it's time for coaching to matter. I see them run offense that I can't figure out. I see Ben Simmons initiate the offense.

by passing the ball to one side of the other and then stand still at the top of the key. I see Joelle and B. taking three-point shot attempts inside of four minutes left in the basketball game when the outcome is still in doubt and throwing up bricks. Joel and B. should never touch the ball outside the three-point line with four minutes left in the game. That's coaching malpractice as far as I'm concerned unless it's a last second shot to try and tie the game. The ball bounce into his hands. I mean, I need to see this. Now, look, the talent load up was great.

I'm impressed. But they need to get up over this organizational. I'm going to use the word dysfunction. They need to figure out what they're going to do with four minutes left in the game in the playoffs. And you know what? They might shut me the F up. They just be here for it. I'd be fine with that.

You know, they just beat the box. It was the first game without Brogden. What I'm saying, and I didn't mean for this to become a Sixers thing, I didn't anticipate. Well, you said we had. hadn't talked about them. Let's give it to him a little. I didn't mean for it to like spark a conversation. I'll tell you what I told Times last week, which is this. After the first five guys, what do we reasonably expect Brown to Abercadabra Hocus Pocus with Mike Scott, James Ennis, Bobon, T.J., Jonah Bolden, Jonathan Simmons, and Amir Johnson. Like that bench, that after their five,

good luck. Give me the best coach in the NBA and tell me what he's going to do with that group. It's going to be real, real tough. But my complaint isn't with the bench. My complaint isn't a personnel complaint. Their five best guys are good enough to win the East. Yeah, but you can't play them all 48 minutes a game. But they're not showing up with four minutes left in the game down by a dozen because their benches put them in that spot. They're good.

The Sixers are good. They have a talent to win the East. They have a coaching problem. The knee bone is connected to the elbow bone or however that song goes. I think it's all related. All right, just give me your... Well, I was apologizing. I was apologizing to Embed.

I apologize to Kyrie Irving. I'm an apologize to the Greek freak. The best player in the Easter Conference playoffs is going to be Kauai Leonard. I believe that he is going to remind all of us of what he's capable of at the height of his Kauai powers. It has been really two full years since we laid eyes on the full Kauai in the playoffs. This dude is a top three talent in the entire national basketball association. And this dude wants to play. Oh no, stay away from ice. Get two feet away from ice, Gonson. So Kauai Leonard wants to play for the Los Angeles Clippers next season.

And he is going to come out and put it on everybody this coming Eastern Conference playoffs. He's not going to permit the Kyle Lowry annual wilting flower routine in the playoffs. I think Kauai is going to carry Toronto to the Eastern Conference finals. I didn't want to do this, but for the first time on this pod, we've agreed. I also have Kauai. Like I like Toronto. I've liked them all year. They're deep, they're good, they're functional.

Kauai is really super talented. And that narrative that you just do out there about Kauai being one and done in Toronto, womp-womp for all of our We the North fans, that sucks for them. But it could be a good farewell because they're really well positioned to win the Eastern Conference. And I'm with you. If Kauai ends up being the best player in the Eastern Conference playoffs, they're probably going to be in the finals. And if he leaves, but he gets you to the finals, that's a relatively good outcome. I mean, obviously, you'd rather have him stick around.

but I think after all these years of running into LeBron in the playoffs and getting smacked and getting shut down and Toronto like having a good regular season record but like disappointing the playoffs, that would be better than previous seasons. Yeah, that's right. He will be leaving the franchise in a better place than when he arrived. It would still be sad for Raptors fans, but we'll see if we get there. All right, last one for you, non-Warriors edition.

You can't pick any Warriors. Who's going to be the best player in the Western Conference? This is so lame. I can't believe that I'm going to go a lame route. I'm just going to say James Harden. And the reason I'm going to say James Harden is because I think this is the playoffs where the Houston Rockets acquit themselves. Now, look, I'm knocking on wood. Do you hear me?

Ow, I'm knocking so loud. It hurts my hand. This is going to be the redemption story for the Rockets. And it's going to be a little bit out of left field because last season, they showed everybody when they're all healthy and what I'm knocking on wood for is for health. I really am dying for health for the Rockets. but that when Capella and our boy CP3 and Hardin are healthy and able to play together, they're formidable and honestly can pose an interesting challenge to the Warriors. I didn't say beat them.

I didn't say win a series of seven games. I just think it's a really, really the most interesting challenge out of the West to me come from the Houston Rockets. It begins and ends obviously with Hardin. I think he's going to rest a little bit. his efficiency has gone down a bit in March so far. You know, at some point that all of that carrying this franchise for the first, you know, 75 games will catch up to him, let James get a little bit of rest, let his neck and shoulder soothe a little bit, get the stimulation on there,

a little ice, little heat. That's what I recommend. And just come on in and let's get this thing going. In addition to providing financial advice on this podcast, now you're providing, like, trainer, health, doctor advice. Little PT, little physical therapy guidance. You're multi-talented. Hardin's a good one. I won't pick Hardin though because you did. For me, like, you know, in the same way that I said that I'm worried about the nuggets and who they draw in the first round, that sort of negates Yokach for me.

Like, I could see Yokuch being that guy. I'll go to that four or five matchup where I see, like, whoever gets out of the Blazers OKC matchup if they end up, in fact, playing each other. I think that could be a guy who could be a candidate. And for me, it would be either Dame or PG. And we're not going to straddle the fence here. and I hate to do this because longtime listeners if He Check know how much I love all things, Portland and the Blazers and their aesthetic and their team and the whole bit. I love all of it. I would love to pick a game. I'm not going to. I'm going to pick a guy who's been a killer all season. Paul George.

Paul George has been so good at both ends of the floor all season long, and if OKC is going to do anything in the playoffs, they're going to need to ride his back. It's always Russ's team because it's the thunder, right? But really, if you're talking about who's the best player, it's Paul George and it's not close. So my only concern is what version of PG-13 are we getting?

Because since he's returned after the shoulder injury, his efficiency, shooting his efficiency is way down. He struggled with its efficiency and his seven games back after the injury, 36% from the field, still averaging 30 points and nine rebounds over the last three games. So maybe this is just a work in the rust-off kind of thing. Yeah. But you remember last season, he was gangbusters up to a certain point. And then sort of somewhat mysteriously, and we don't really have an explanation, his efficiency fell way off and it carried through into the playoffs.

Redemption. It's a redemption. It's a redemption story. I'm placing it. I love it. I admit that it's a gamble. It's a gamble on the player. I'm doing it anyway.

I'm picking PJ. Joe House, always love having you on the program. You've got Fairway Rolling now. It's your new golf podcast. You've got House of Carbs, which was so much fun to be on. You've got all kinds of stuff going on. Love you, Gonso. We're going to talk today. Break down the just concluded players championship on Farrowe Rowland.

Rory McElroy, just put it down. And what a glorious tournament. Golf relevant in March is such a neat idea. I have to give kudos to the PGA tour. I'm going to give all of them. Pat's on the back and hope that they invite me out for a round. Anyway, we'll have that up later today. Gonso, thanks for having me on.

Listen to House. House, we always love having you. Thanks, buddy. Thanks to House. We always love having him. on before we get to Dan Devine. We're going to run through the NBA watch of the night. I'm going to go with Pacers

at Blazers tonight on ESPN. The Pacers, Isaac, refused to yield to anybody. They lose Ola Depot. And yet they have, I believe they're still sixth in the league in that rating, which is just kind of crazy to me. They're playing at the Blazers. Blazers just lost C.J. McCollum for a little bit.

He's going to be re-evaluated next week. He had a little scare. But the Blazers are kind of plugging along. The Pacers are plugging along. And Isaac, like, if you were going to pick the best player on the Pacers right now. Who would it be? Oh, that's tough. I mean, Boyan Bogdanovich is the guy

who's scoring a lot, but you see sub bonus getting a lot of production off the bench. It depends on the night. Like, that's what I said. You look at the Pacers and I'm like, I don't know who their best player is anymore. I think maybe that's what's fueling their winning streak

is that they're pretty unpredictable now without Victor Oladipo. I mean, granted, they are four and six over the last 10. They're not bulldozing over teams, but... They're not bulldozing teams. You're right. They are four and six over the last 10. But my thing is, Without Ola Depot, I expected them to absolutely crater.

And they have still somehow managed to stay in that three, four, five mix with the Sixers and the Celtics and make it sort of interesting. And like, I don't know if Nate McMillan is a good coach. But I know this team somehow is greater than the sum of its parts. It's an interesting team. Yeah, I think it might be an indictment on the rest of the East, though, from five to eight. The Celtics, the Pistons, Nets, and the Heat. Obviously, the Celtics are quite good, but they had that slump at the beginning of the year. So Pistons, Nets and Heat, what's up with them?

It's probably the question we should be asking. Pacers have an absolutely brutal schedule. They're on a back-to-back. They're playing on the road right now for a while. They've got a little road trip. Blazers tonight, Clippers tomorrow night. But tonight, they're in Portland. That's the second half of a double header on ESPN.

Before that, you get the Golden State Warriors at the Spurs. Golden State will be probably without boogie. It looks like he's going to have an MRI on his ailing foot. They're going to have bog it in the mix. So a big night on ESPN. Check out all that basketball. And remember, gang, if you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA.com or from your preferred video provider. And now, before we get to Dan Devine, a word from our sponsors.

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I'm going to start my business today to find the right tools to make 2019 the year for your business. Captera.com slash NBA. That's Captera, spelled C-A-T-E-E-R-A. slash NBA. Today's episode of Heech is brought to you by ADT. That's real protection. When it comes to something as important as your family's safety, you deserve real protection from ADT.

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safeguarding you. Real protection means direct connections with first responders. No matter how you define safety for you, your family, or your business, ADT is there. ADT, real protection. Visit adt.com podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. All right, joining us on the other line from New York City, one of our favorite staff writers. It's Dan Devine. He's also the resident Mario Hizonia superfan. That's right. It's not Danny Chow.

Danny Chow may have written pieces about how he still believes in the Mario Hizonia, but it's been inside me this whole time. It's always been bubbling inside you. I got off of Mario Hizonia a while ago. I had previously been all about Mario Hizone, especially like before. before he came over from the Euro League. Like when he said, I love this, I've always loved. I loved watching him in the Euro League,

but there was a famous quote where somebody said, hey, have you gone to see Messi yet? And he said, let Messi come see me. And I'm like, I love that, dude. Yeah, that was wonderful. It was a really great, like, elevator pitch for why you should like Mario Hizonia. The last four years have provided maybe the counter argument

to that elevator pitch. But the confidence is still in there, as was pretty clearly evident on the final play of the Nix game against the Lakers, yeah, on Sunday. So the Knicks beat the Lakers, L.O.L. Lakers. They win on a game-winning block by Mario Hazzonia on LeBron James, which is crazy. And also post-game hilarious. So Ian Begley in the media, New York media, ask Mario Hizonia,

hey, of course, everybody always thinks about, you know, like dreams about hitting a game-winning shot. Did you ever dream about making a game-winning block? And he said, you know, I said this to Scott Perry and Steve. Steve Mills, the GM and president, he said, if you sign me because of this defense, you're crazy. I've never played like this. It happens, you know, especially now, if you look at guys like Clay Thompson and Kauai and stuff like that, there's as effective on offense as they are on defense, and that's what the NBA needs right now to win.

That's what teams need. And I'm trying my best to be one of those guys. Yo, I'm back in on Mario Hizonia. I mean, listen, there are not very many players who this season have, like, signature moments against Janice and LeBron. So, I mean, if you're developing a very narrowly tailored and highly filtered power rankings of players, he's got to be right up there at the top of the list. League MVP, I think.

I mean, DPOI, there's a lot of ways you can go with Mario Hizoneo for these final couple of weeks. The Knicks are just bananas. So all of this stuff is swirling with the Knicks all year long. But they're tanking, they're trying to free up two max slots. They trade away, Chris Stapp's Porzengas. And then on top of that, you've got James Dolan out there being James Dolan. And he had previously, like, a fan had said sell the team.

And he got pissed off and the fan got escorted out. And then apparently there was video of Dolan telling a man with a sell the Nick sign to leave his band's performance. And this is according from Stefan Bondi, he said, anybody else here thinks that's a little negative? That's what Dolan asked the crowd. And one person in the sparse crowd booed, at which point Dolan said, I'm going to invite you to leave too. amazing how thin skin this dude is. So naturally, I'm sure you saw this. Our esteemed and super talented producer, Isaac Lee,

revamped ice to ice and came back with yet another song. And this one is for your New York Knicks. He did a song called Sell the Teen. When I find myself in times of trouble, courtside seeds at MSG, speaking words of wisdom, sell the team. And in our hour of darkness, There's a buyer right of front of thee

Speaking words of wisdom Sell the team Sell the team Sell the team So the team Whisper words of wisdom Sounded team So good

In addition to being super talented And handsome That voice is angelic Isaac Lee It's amazing It made me weeped sweet sweet tears of joy to hear the song, and then when I thought about what the song was about, made me weep very, very bitter, bitter tears of anguish and agony on the flip side of things.

But listen, music is there for us to have that kind of emotional experience. And I mean, Ice to Ice has provided that for fans, you know, the world over. And forever. I mean, they're a classic, legendary Hall of Fame band. Going back to the 60s and 70s. They're going to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame any minute now. Not if James Dolan has anything to say about it with his music industry connections. That would be incredible.

I told Isaac when he gets his egot, he still has to produce the podcast. For you, as a Knicks fan, as a New Yorker, as a basketball writer, what is it like to be a Knicks fan right now? And normally, like, that's a charged question, but I feel like it's even more charged right now because they've had such a strange season even for them. And this whole Dolan thing, like Simmons swears that he's right about Dolan fielding offers to potentially sell off the team. Dolan has said that's not true. he said that Simmons was peddling propaganda on behalf of one of the GMs that he's very close friends with. Then Bill came on NBA desktop and he's like, why would I want James Dolan to sell the team? I want him to be the owner forever, which hilarious, and I'm on board with that idea.

But for you, as somebody who's like kind of quasi invested in their, you know, outcome, their results, like, what's this like right now? It is, it's really, it's hard to be able to put it into words because there's a part of it that is so believable. Like that this would be the way things are shaping up that in the first sort of open door toward a positive future that the Knicks have had in a few years where, you know, you can make the logical argument for, yeah, okay, yes, you trade away Christaps, but you do that for the purpose of clearing up the cap space. And now there's, you know, yes, you can go after premium free agents. You also have a ton of room to be able to bring in other things in trade if you need to do it that way. You have all these young talents. You have all your picks going forward. You have extra picks.

There's an ill logic to the team built. where you're like, there's a lot of ways this could turn out well. Or. Right. The or is the key. Is the key. And like the or gets louder and louder the more James Dolan says things, does things, looks sideways at people and tells them they can't come to his JD in the straight shot show,

all these sorts of things. And it's like, so the thing that I have a harder time with is as we get closer and closer to July 1st, if you're one of these elite free agents, if you're Kevin Durand, if you're Kyrie Irving, you know, further on down the list. is this the person you want to hit your wagon to over the course of the next few years of your career? This is my point. Maybe owning New York is worth it,

but like, I don't know, man. It's a hard sell, I think. It's a super hard sell. Like, you and I both have written about the Knicks at length this season, to your initial point about, like, the team building and the idea of like, oh, shit, for the first time in a long time,

the Knicks have all their picks. That hasn't been true for a decade, which is crazy, right? And then they traded away their best player in a very long time, but they also gave themselves like considerable flexibility, right? And they could have two max slots and that makes sense. That's very attractive from a team building standpoint.

However, and this is in the same way that you had an ore, my however is gigantic and it's all capitals and it's underlined and it's bold. I don't think I'd want to go work for James Dolan. I don't want to be in that environment. He has shown that organization has shown no capacity for actually writing the ship and like for self-evaluation and auditing where they go, oh, well, you know, what we're doing here doesn't make much sense or what the owner is doing isn't very helpful.

And they're just so universally thin-skinned. Like when they're banning or not involving all the media members or they're getting upset about certain things that are written or a fan saying sell the team. Like you live and work and own a team in New York, dude. If somebody says sell the team, you've got to let that roll off your back. It's significantly worse when you see that Ted Leonis in D.C. had a similar situation recently. Candice Buckner, the Washington Post wrote about it. Fan comes up and says, you know, I think it was Fire Ernie, which I know we've talked about a few

times here on this show. And that the response he had was to like make a joke out of it, spin it forward. And then it completely takes all the venom out of it. It completely defangs it by like, I'm not going to take this seriously. That is, you know, we move forward with it. And we don't, we certainly don't ban people and turn it into a whole public debacle that then you, like, four days after the fact, go on the radio to explain yourself and then, extend the news cycle and make it all look worse anyway. It's a franchise that the Knicks have been very, very clear that they want to be judged by the actions and the track record and the performance of this current new group, right?

The Steve Mills, Scott Perry, and David Fisdale sort of era, this new front office, new organization. And that may, I understand that. That makes sense. Judge us by what we do with this group, not what has been done by regimes past. the problem is there will always be that guy at the top of the food chain at the top of the organization chart. And I don't know how you disassociate that if you are somebody who's saying, I'm going to put, I don't know, the remainder of my competitive prime in the hands of an organization,

and that's the guy running it. I think that becomes a cautionary tale, a real concern for if you're a player that's trying to make that decision. When you are a max level talent, you're going to get max offers from anywhere you want to be. That kind of stuff matters. And we just haven't seen, it's entirely possible that this was, you know, the entire Knicks rebuilding plan has been done with an eye toward putting something together that they know they have in hand. It's just, it's a long time before we get to July. And every time James Dolan's name comes up in a headline, it makes the chances of it all going well seem more and more remote. I'm in agreement with you.

But in a weird way, this is going to work out great regardless for me because I only care about narrative. I mean, I know that, like, you know, I talk about the Sixers and they're the team that I follow the most. And there's some part of me deep down buried away that, like, wants good things for them. But mostly, I just root for me and for storylines because we're about content here at the ringer and narratives, right? So this works out either way on that front because if KD and or Kyrie go to the Knicks, that's a fascinating story. But if neither of them go and they miss out and now the Knicks are looking around like to spend some money on somebody, I had mentioned to this to you before. My working theory at present,

and I really hope this happens because it would also work out nicely for the Sixers. Katie and Kyrie don't go there. The Knicks are looking around to spend some money on somebody, and here comes Jimmy Butler to the rescue. I want that so bad. I mean, yeah, there's a, it's so hard because if the pull the football away result is still you get like an All-Star,

That's like, it's hard to argue with that too much. But then that said, that's like three other fan bases have talked themselves into and out of that scenario in the last couple of years with Jimmy Butler. It's really, it would seem almost too perfect for the Knicks to be the fourth in line in there. And, you know, whatever that is, sloppy fourths. I don't know. Within moments of signing him, he would be singing ice to ice as acclaimed classics sell the team. And James Dolan would be asking him to leave his band's performance. It would be fucking amazing.

And that would be the end of your guy, Mitchell Robinson. Jimmy Butler would ruin him. Oh, my God. You love Mitchell Robinson. You wrote about him. You couldn't keep them out of your comb from the five most interesting teams. Well, you know, ever since John Gonzalez, the great John Gonzalez, unveiled the take on heat check. Actually, I think it might have been first with Chris Ryan.

You talked about it. I wasn't even on the podcast when you brought up the take. And then we discussed it. It has become, I'm not going to say it's inspired Mitchell Robinson to New Heights. But, I mean, dude's been amazing. And, yeah, so last Friday I got to write about my weekly five-months. interesting teams column. It was a what is the most interesting thing about the five least interesting teams in the league. Obviously I you know I fudged a little bit because clearly I'm

interested in what goes on with the Knicks but on the court it has not been particularly exciting unless you're paying attention to Mitchell Robinson and uh yeah my guy I enjoy very much and I got to be able to put the take into print which I enjoyed very much. It's an excellent take included in that take about you standing for Mitchell Robinson. You mentioned uh ESPN's excellent Kevin Peltin, who said that per Kevin Peltin's numbers, Robinson trails only Luca and Trey Young in wins above replacement player among rookies. My computer almost exploded from the fire take. But good for the next. That's one thing that they can be excited about is Mitchell Robinson, and who knows how it'll work out. But so they just beat the Lakers. And I wanted to ask you about

this. Like, if you had a pick between those two franchises right now, which would you be more optimistic about? Because there's some feeling that, you know, with LeBron going to be 35 years old, and and you're going to write about, like, you know, are we looking at maybe post-peak LeBron? If he is post-peak, which you're, you know, you're going to interrogate, which one do you feel better about, Lakers or Knicks? Oh, man, I'd still probably say L.A., if only because there isn't, you're still banking on the Knicks landing something that even is at the level of post-peak LeBron. Like, post-peak LeBron is still 27, 8-8 and 8.

Yes, the Lakers are now closer to the bottom of the standings than they are to the eighth-seat at this point. But they've been, I think they're 25 and 26 with LeBron in the lineup this year. And that is like a level of success and competence that the Knicks haven't been able to have only barely grasped at the hem of over the last half decade or so. How incredible is that too? Like one of LeBron's worst seasons where he's a game under 500. If you're a next fan, you're going, God, I would take that. That sounds great. We're talking about, you know, a fan base that is starved for scraps, no question about it. And that, you know, I find myself sometimes thinking about, like,

I really should have appreciated the one, like, cool Mike Woodson season a lot more when it was happening, when he put Carmelo at the four and two point guards and Pablo Prygione. I should have really, like, savored that more when I had the chance. And that's, like, where you find yourself left at this point. But, I mean, the Lakers, they are in a very complicated situation that's made even more so by Brandon Ingram's health situation. Obviously, you know, news coming out that he's had surgery to respond to the deep venous thrombose.

in his arm that expected to make a full recovery for next season. We certainly hope for the best for him. We hope for healthy recovery. He is a major trade piece for them that obviously they're going to be looking to make upgrades to the roster this summer. It's his injury and Alonzo Ball, the fact that he has basically missed half the season now with a sprained ankle, and this is the second straight season that he's going to be playing a significantly curtailed number of games and ending the season on the injured

list. Like, that's a big deal. And for whatever the Lakers hopes to be able to accomplish and trade. they are going to be a max free agency shopper too. We'll see how successful they're going to be in that regard. But at least they already have a couple of young pieces that look like

they're at least as somewhat enticing and LeBron on the roster. With the Knicks, you're sort of projecting out with Robinson, you're projecting out with Kevin Knox. Beyond that, none of the other sort of main pieces are already there on the roster. So it's weird to say that as rough as it's been for the Lakers, you might take their situation right now at least.

But obviously all that changes if Kevin Duran or Kyrie Irving are both sign on the dotted line. on July 1. Yeah, I would definitely still take the Lakers. I mean, I think, like, for all the reasons you outlined, plus LeBron is better than anything that the Knicks have had for a long time. So, even if he is post-peak, which, by the way, this could be a real thing now. Like, we might be into the decline of the greatest player of his generation and perhaps the greatest player of all time. I don't know if I'm ready for that yet. I still could have a, like, I could do with a few more years of, you know, prime, superstar, superhero LeBron. I like that. Like, the NBA

is more enjoyable to me when LeBron's on top of his game. And when he's going to go home early to, you know, spend his offseason shooting Space Jam 2, I want to see the movie eventually, but I'm less excited about him using his talent in the offseason that way than another deep run into the playoffs. I would agree with you, except I'm not sure that I agree on I want to go see Space Jam 2. You don't want to see Space Jam too.

Tell me you like Space Jam. I mean, I have the nostalgia for it as remembering it as something from my youth, but it's not, it wasn't very good. The best part of Space Jam to me, and this is the one take that I will always have is Bill Murray, that sort of, whoa, whoa, whoa, I don't play defense. That was always my favorite part of that movie as maybe a one-dimensional player in my own right.

But, I mean, yeah, LeBron is now, you know, it's well chronicled. Past 56,000 career minutes at this point, regular and postseason combined, and it's only going to get, you know, the number's only going to go up, the age is only going to go up. That happens, by the way. I can confirm that. Yes, as a washed gentleman with a lower back issue.

Yes, I can tell you. totally confirm that. The suspension of disbelief where you have to say, like, well, all things are possible through LeBron James, we now know that's not true. Like, you couldn't even get into the playoffs in the West with LeBron James this year. Obviously, he was missed a bunch of time with the groin injury. But, like, we now know that that's not always going to be the case. And it seems like when things start to pick up steam going downhill, the speed can pick up awfully

quickly. So, I mean, this will also be the flip side of that is this is the first, will be the longest layoff LeBron has had in 15 years. So maybe he uses that to get his body right and get everything else in order in order to extend this run as long as possible. But it's at least a possibility. And I think that's got to be a pretty frightening thing if you're a Laker fan. Top of his form, though, when it comes to entertainment world.

I mean, shop is out there. He's doing uninterrupted stuff. I mean, he's really like he's coming into his prime in the entertainment world. There's no question about that. And he's certainly setting the table. I mean, the real thing is I think I'm going to be fascinated to find out if he's got all this extra time this spring and summer. You know, Kobe just came out with the, what is it called, the Wisenard series?

Does LeBron have a 550-word fantasy novel banked-around basketball in his pocket? Kobe very clearly went with like the Harry Potter route. Since we're talking, you know, we're in the season of binge mode, I'm interested to find out if LeBron has a like mammoth, George R.R. Martin, Game of Thrones but basketball kind of storyline in his back pocket that he can start working on this summer. I want to see some pages, LeBron. That's what I need to see from you this summer. Yet another reason for Kobe fans to hate LeBron.

The rivalry continues. I had intended to run through your entire five most interesting teams, and I wanted to get into this whole bit about what the Charlotte Hornets are going to do with Kemper Walker. We don't have time because you're too busy. You've got to go finish writing. So next time you come on, we'll run through your entire team. But I encourage everybody to go and read that story because it was a fun story. Thank you very much, Gons.

Any time for you. and as much time as you need for me. That's what I'd be happy to do. Dan Devine, go and read him on the ringer. He's excellent. Thanks, Dan. Thank you. All right, that was Dan Devine. I want to thank him.

Want to thank House. I want to thank Isaac. As we get out of the show here, let's just play out some more sell the team because it was too good. Play it under me because it was so excellent. I encourage everybody to listen to the whole song, as you can hear.

It's really his finest work. I really like the Lucas song as well. It's a tough call between which was better. I want to thank Isaac Lee. I want to thank all of you for listening. I would like to encourage you. you to please rate and review us on iTunes. If you would be so inclined, read all of our content on the ringer.com. And don't forget, mismatch on Tuesday, group chat on Thursday, Corner 3 on Friday.

Ice to Ice and I will be back on Monday with He Check. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.