The Ringer NBA Show - The Depreciating Cavs, the Strengthening Rockets, and Offseason Rumors | Group Chat (Ep. 275)

Episode Date: May 24, 2018

The Ringer’s Chris Ryan is joined by Justin Verrier, Jason Concepcion, Kevin O’Connor, and Paolo Uggetti to talk about the Cavaliers’ weak performance against the Celtics in Game 5 of the Eastern Conference finals (1:12). Then, they look ahead to the next Rockets-Warriors matchup and talk about some offseason rumors (20:29). All of The Ringer's NBA playoffs coverage The Early NBA Offseason Rumor Roundup Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening to the Ringer NBA show group chat. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm joined today by Jason Concepcion and Kevin O'Connor, Justin Verrier, and Paulo O'Geddy. We talked Cavs Celtics Game 5, which the Celtics won without much problem. We also talked a little bit of Warriors Rockets and some offseason Kauai news, some Doc Rivers news. I want to make sure you're listening to Ringer NBA show all week long. We got Heat Check on Sunday.

Chris Vernon and Kevin O'Connor. We got sources say. group chat and draft class. So you have a full slate of shows, a lot of which are going up late at night after these conference finals games. We'll continue that into the finals. While I've got your attention,

please subscribe to Channel 33 on the Ringer Podcast Network where you can hear the big picture with Sean Fennacy, Jam Session with Amanda Dobbins and Juliet Litman, the press box with David Shoemaker and Brian Curtis, and damage control with Justin Charity and Kate Nibbs. Without further ado, let's get into group chat.

Basketball is very good. O'KC would make the finals in the East. Ben Simmons doesn't need a jumper. Terry Rozier is more clutch than Kyrie. Basketball is very good. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Winger NBA show. It's group chat. It's Jason Concepcio, Kevin O'Connor, Justin Veria,

Chris Ryan, Palo Getty, blog boys, Bitcoin boys in the back, everybody in the booth. Congrats to Steph Snowden to the Washington Capitals! We are here. Oh, there was a basketball game. We are here to talk about Celtics, Cavs, Game 5. What a game.

A little bit about NBA offseason stuff, a little bit about the Warriors Rocket. Kevin O'Connor, I'm going to tell you something right now. Okay. And I feel weird. I feel slightly dirty saying this. I feel like I'm having an out-of-body experience.

Okay. Jason Tate was the best player on the floor tonight. Whoa. That's some spice for me. It's not even that spicy. It's not even that spicy. It was, we watched. I think earlier,

in the day, the talk about this Celtics team is that when it gets to this kind of point in the series, right, when they're up against, not up against the wall, but when they are even with the calves like this, who is going to be the person who gets the basket when they need it? And time after

time tonight, it was Tatum. And he did more than just get to baskets. He racked up assists, steals, jumping passing lanes, had some weak side blocks, rebounded. Tatum did absolutely everything for the Celtics. So to your point, tonight at least, he was the best one night. His plus minus, just 19.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. His plus minus was we're not talking enough about the job he's doing. This is the game we were waiting for him to have essentially, which is weird to say because he is the youngest player on the floor. But that's where we are with the Celtics team. A guy like that just plays completely above his head. Jalen Brown also had a really good game.

I thought it was interesting to Terry ReZer's 3 for 15 tonight because usually if that's the kind of performance you're getting out of your starting point guard, it does not augur well for a very very very. victory. Usually that only happens on the road with Terry. Yes, right, exactly. He had a Cleveland game in Boston. More broadly speaking, I guess we could talk a little bit about the Cavs, although I don't really know how many different ways to look at this Cavs team. I mean, LeBron James, they put him out there for almost 40 minutes in what was not even as close as the 13 point victory suggests. The other guys can show up. Yeah, how many times can you really say versions of that?

I thought the Celtics did a really good job of letting Jordan Clarkson and J.R. Smith get the ball and do things because those two guys were bad. Yeah. And it was like almost as if they were working undercover for the Celtics. It's so weird how Tetchy LeBron has been historically over the course of his career that the ride or die guy for him is J.R. That that's the guy that like he seems to have J.R. blindness. Well, you just feel like if he gets into one of those grooves where he hits, four threes, five threes, it would be great.

If they could get anything from anyone not named LeBron James and Kevin Love. I mean... It's not getting that much from Kevin Love, though. It's 14 points. Yeah, but at least that's something. Everyone else, Tristan Thompson, one point. J.R. Smith, two points.

George Hill, seven points. Larry Nans Jr., two points. It's like... And the funny thing is, with LeBron, he hit a lot of tough shots tonight, too. It's not like he was getting it easy either. Working so hard. Yeah, every point.

Yeah, it wasn't like that game in Cleveland where it was over as soon as the first quarter basically ended. But it did feel that way at halftime where the Celtics had such an insurmountable advantage that the game was effectively over. And I think it was weird that the Celtics were shooting, I think, over 40% from three at home. Yeah. As opposed to what they were doing on the road, I can't account for the disparity that's happening with their offense. But when they show up, and maybe it has something to do with the Cavs defense or whatever, but when they show up, it almost feels like the calves can't punch back.

Oh, yeah, not at all. I mean, is it harsh language? Like, what is the magic of Boston that makes it? I mean, Celtics offense wasn't that terrific tonight, though. They had like a 103 offensive rating. But it started really well. Yeah, I think that was enough to where the stats might be skewed at the end of the game. For sure. Yeah. Let me ask you guys this.

I think that last night, like, it was just like this chaotic symphony of athleticism, long-range shooting, tactical innovation. Missed dunks. Missed dunks. Right. Tonight was not that. I mean, there's promise on both of these teams, and, especially. especially for Boston. I think the future is obviously really bright.

But let me go through a couple of teams from the West, and I want to know if you think that they could beat these teams. Because in our intro music, we have OKC would win the East. But I'm asking you, what a series between Oklahoma City and Cleveland look like? Like, what's the disparity here? I think that's probably like a six-game win for the Thunder. Like, this is both of these teams. It's hard to escape the reality that you watch this,

and both these teams are going to get waxed by whoever comes out of the West. See, I look at what the Celtics have done against LeBron and with their defense, and I think they would be able to take advantage of some of the flaws on the Thunder's roster in the same exact way. Carmilla, Anthony. Andre Roberson, not that's what you're alluding to. Yeah, right. Kevin, what do you think? Is there a disparity or are we seeing, is it just the styles-makes-fights-fights kind of thing?

Versus Houston and Golden State or, like, other teams, like Utah. Below Houston and Golden State. I mean, Boston is the best defensive basketball, and that gives them a chance, for sure. And then Al Horford's an all-star, and Jason Tatum is playing like one sometimes. So I mean, I think they would have a shot against those teams for sure. You think they could beat the Thunder? Definitely. I'm just, I'm just messing with.

Halad, did you want to jump in? I feel like you're... No, I just think they would... I think the Cavs would beat the Thunder. I think we forget that Carmel and he was on that team and he was playing 30 plus minutes and I think that would be... Did we forget? You know what?

You're right behind you. You guys kind of did. What was the Carmella's social thing today? What happened with Carmella? That might be like fake news, so I don't know if I'm going to go down. This is the time of fake news. I already still believed that Tom Tipano threw a computer through somebody's

It was basically like a revisionist history Instagram posts about comparing Kyle Corber to Carmelo Anthony and being like, oh, are we sure? Yeah, are we sure Carmel Anthony like Kyle Corver is better than Carmelo Anthony at this point? It was due, are we sure? We know that Mello had a better career, but are we sure that Kyle didn't have a better season? Yeah. Right. And then Mello allegedly went F out of here.

Okay. Yeah. He's like, I got a comment on this. He's like, this crosses the line. Paul, did you have a question for us? Well, there was a question about the cast specifically. You guys were talking about JR, and USER HWG Cleveland wanted to know,

does anybody have an answer for JR Smith's Minutes Monopoly over Kyle Corver in this game? Is it just that Corver is just a defensive liability that bad? Is Corver also still tired from game four? Yeah, I mean, Jason Lloyd should ask Tyrone Liu in a very aggressive fashion. Why is J.R. Smith taken off the minute? I wanted to...

I was just be as simple as match-ups, where Corver is effectively a four now, whereas Smith, even though he isn't good defensively, he can maybe stick with some guards or at least pretend to match up with them. Jayr Smith bit on like four pump-fakes. Jaylon Brown had so many wide-open threes. Where he flew practically into the crowd in this game.

In defense of Ty Lou, like, look at his options. Yeah, I mean, yeah. Let's be real now. Let's look at his option. Yeah, it's a great point. It's like maybe Corver is the type of player at 37 years old that when he gets him to minute 25, 26, his production declines. So like maybe you need to keep him around 20 minutes in order to maximize his play. Like that's always a possibility.

There's nobody else on that bench. You're really comfortable throwing out there. All right. This is a good segue, Kevin, because whenever you give me a take like that, I immediately think of Skip Bayliss. I thought I was going to joke. Joe Prunty at that. Skip's tweeted today. This is just pathetic.

LeBron is sitting on the scorers table chugging water, trying to show. show the gullible witnesses that he's, quote, dehydrated. Next, we'll hear he's suffering from chronic fatigue syndrome, unnecessary shot at a very real disease, skim. Unreal. Probably should be undisputed, but fatigue is something that I feel like has come up a little bit more in these playoffs. We talked about this last night when we were doing Rockets Warriors.

You know, these teams typically have eight, nine, ten man rotations during the regular season. They're being short into seven, sometimes eight. and we're seeing a lot more minutes per guys. LeBron did not look like Pete LeBron tonight to say the least, even though he put up his numbers. How much of an a, like an asterisk are you putting on these things for exhaustion?

You know? Is this a chess move by LeBron to be like, I'm saving everything for Game 7 back here? I mean, it kind of, honestly, it kind of is. He has to pump the brakes a little bit. I mean, as we've been saying, he's not getting a lot of help from the roster, and it's unlikely that you can count,

on any of the guys showing up at any given time, even though they are going home, he has to do everything. And yeah, I mean, there was a play going into the half where it was like they called a time out, and LeBron was just lagging way beyond behind everybody going to the bench. They summed about with two minutes less in the first match. He looked absolutely gassed.

And it's like, it's not an act. The guy is like... He played 82 games, right? He's playing more playoff games than he's had to before the finals and the whole decade. Add up all those playoffs. games that he's had and that's how many extra seasons, actual seasons

that he's played. It's like a full two or three seasons extra. And they always say a playoff minute is worth two in the regular season. For sure. And then you watch the way he has to score. Like he it's post-ups and a lot of dribbling and just reposting and it's so much energy. Really a tough Indiana series

on now against Boston one of the best defenses in the league. Everything's tough. I would just say also that given the precarious nature of his contract for Cleveland and like lack of clarity over whether or not he's going to come back. It's going to the Lakers. He's going to the Lakers.

I haven't seen a supporting cast get devalued. Like, these guys are, like, the new, the new calves are basically, like, a bunch of new cars that get driven off the lot. They have been depreciating and decreasing amounts, you know, since they've kind of arrived. And the playoffs have really made these guys not look ready for prime time. If you're him, if they had lost to the Pacers, not that he would have stayed if that would have happened, but you could have just kind of written it off to like, we're just still getting used to each other.

I don't know, man. Clarkson and Nance out here just don't look like they belong. It looked like they're still in the Lakers. They feel like they haven't shaken off that way of play. And even when Nance was doing things well, seems like he didn't know how to finish over guys at the rim. He got into it with Marcus Morris, which didn't seem like a wise idea

because after all that, he still didn't get Morris tossed. nothing really came up. Right. And because Rodney Hood has been such a disappointment to the point where he's only playing three minutes in garbage time in a game that was basically showed up. Hit two shots at the end. My guy had those stats. But you have to play Clarkson Moore and just roll the dice with him and hope that he comes

up with something. And more often than not, that's not going to happen. You have to play Clarkson more is just a rough place to be. But look at their garb rotation. Yeah. Do you have Clarkson question? There was a question on Twitter from Dweb 10. Would you rather have Jordan Clarkson

or a one-armed LeBron James? Oh, my God. One-arm. I think one-in-R-James is way better than Jordan Clarkson. He could finish way better with the one-arm. I might have a one-arm semi-o-lestone at this point. It could be either arm, too. You would take a left-handed LeBron still.

Yeah. All right. So we've been watching these playoffs, and especially with these Cavs series, with the exception of RIP of Toronto Raptors, it does just feel like these guys are trying to win out at home and boil the series down to, a game a half a quarter.

You know what you mean? Like everything is going to come down to that. So now Cleveland's in two must-win positions. They play very well at home. Boston plays very poorly on the road. Is there anything to suggest to you that LeBron is saving a historic garden performance for game seven?

I mean, we've been talking. I don't even like talking about sports in this way as if guys are like hedging their bets, but if you watch the playoffs, it's hard not to think anything else. I mean, that's the Popovich plan, right? Every time a team is threatening to blow out his team, especially as they got into the tail end of his chorus career,

they would just pump the brakes a little bit. And I think LeBron, honestly, it's a survival thing. He has to do that. And I do hope he's saving it up for Game 7 because I'd like to see it one more time. There's few things in sports more thrilling than when LeBron really, like, pulls one down and it's like gives you that 40-point triple double to save the season one more time with a bunch of, like,

nobody's on his team. I guess the question is, does a 40-point triple-double at the garden enough to win game seven in Boston? Depends on what Tatum's doing. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's a thing. It depends on what Terry Rozier's doing.

Like, he would need to be better than 3 or 15 tonight. Jalen Brown would have to be better than 4 or 15, and you would probably need to Tateham to be even better than 7 of 15 if LeBron's having a historic night like that. Do we feel like either team learned anything

from this game? For instance, nothing. Bain started for the Celtics. Do you think that had any effect on maybe the rotations and the way things played? That's a really good point.

at the bane started. I think, you know, Cleveland was attacking those switches a little bit differently. Yeah. When Boston would switch Roseir off and put Baines on the brawn after a pick and roll, Cleveland was sagging back and then attacking from the perimeter rather than having a post-up. That was a little different. So maybe Boston will have a counterattack to that in game six. To the point about rotations, Tailu is on the podium right now,

and he said that specifically about Korver, he said that Shemi was Korver's matchup, and it threw the caps for a loop when Shemi wasn't in. Do you really want to go out there and just do like Brad Stevens checkmate in me tonight? That's essentially what he's admitting, right? Shemi only played nine minutes last game, though, when that was Corver's best game probably of the series. Tailu is an unreliable narrative. I like the idea of Tailu's saying to me and not seeing him and being like, ah, ah, we were up for Abdul Nader tonight.

He just those three minutes threw us off. You know what I think what some coaches do, they just throw stuff out there and just hope that the media takes it. Like, they don't even mean what they say. So Kevin, is this a, oh, so go ahead, pal. No, he did also. He said he looked a little tired to me, yes, about LeBron. About LeBron. Yeah, he said he looked a little tired to me.

Incredible stuff from Tailou. Great insight. Kev, so this is going to be a one-game series, game seven? Do you think that there's any chance that Boston finds some road mojo? Yeah, for sure. Yeah? I mean, with their defense, of course. There's a chance.

Aren't they, like, one in nine on the road in the playoffs right now? Yeah, I mean, how much doesn't matter, though? We're looking ahead. I mean, not all series is. Yeah, okay. Like, what does it matter or sometimes what teams are in the past?

Honestly, I do think it's kind of a trap game for Cleveland. Yeah. I mean, listen, if the sun is going to one day expand and destroy like all the planets of the inner universe of the inner galaxy, does it really matter?

Does it really matter? Why are we here? I'm just saying, you know, why don't even do this podcast? Why are we doing it? Yeah. I can't account for it, but they were, like,

the same shots they were taking early in that first half were just going in every time. Yes. And I don't know if that's confidence. I don't know if that's crowd. I don't know if it's familiarity with the rims,

but there is a significant difference to what the Celtics are doing at home. Yeah, you're right. All right, let me get a quick prediction for game six from you guys. Celtics win. Yes. Cavs win.

Cavs, I guess. I like you. I'm going with Celtics. I'm going with like a weird like LeBron is like, I'm going on vacation. It's time to go to LA. Any other Boston, Cleveland stuff

before we move on and talk a little Rockets Warriors before. Well, I think it's interesting that Justin was saying they shoot better at home, but like they shot 36% from the field tonight. I think early on they had enough success that the game completely changed. You know what they did tonight was not unlike what Golden State did to Houston yesterday,

which has come out with this huge knockout punch. But unlike Houston, Cleveland never found, never got a run to get back in it, really. I think they got it down to like seven or eight maybe, but never felt like it was it all in contention. LeBron took his foot off the gas pedal. That's what I was going to say. And I think things kind of trickled down from there. I do wonder maybe that is for his benefit if I'm going to put on my time. tinfoil hat here that he took his foot off the gas pedal and now all of a sudden maybe he has

more energy because he didn't go for it now. There's a lot of assumptions going on in that declaration, but I don't know. He needs everything he can get because clearly like the team is going to ebb and flow based on if he scores 40. I think LeBron is so self-confident that he sees like a hot quarter from the Celtics and he's like, okay, I'm just going to like not go all in right now. And if there's a spot for me to pick my spot and go in going to have to, if they go to game seven and that happens, they come out and throw Haymaker and first quarter, LeBron's going to gonna need to decide to actually go full tilt. Why would LeBron like throw away a game away though?

That's what I'm asking. He would not say this. That's what I'm saying. It just feels like more or more teams are like, ah, well. It does feel like that. There's just, in terms of like the leads that get accrued in these games,

it does mildly feel like teams are just like, okay, if it doesn't happen, if we can't cut it to 10 in the next X amount of minutes, then- But when like LeBron like hustles the ball up the core and kicks it out to Jordan Clarkson, and he clanks it off the rim. Yeah. That's not one taking it easy.

It's just, no, no, I don't think it's taking it easy, but there's something that feels almost like people are thinking in terms of a seven-game series rather than if we go all out tonight. You know what I mean? Like, and I almost feel like that, that's not, that hasn't, that's been happening a lot in this series. Obviously, they swept the Raptors.

It was just a complete, it was complete barnstorming. But, you know, like this just feels like these guys are like, we'll be back here in a few days. I don't think he also has to be a conscious thing. decision. It could just be a few plays don't go the right way and he sees things that aren't going well and he almost slumps as a result of it. Maybe he goes a little bit slower and those things accumulate to the point where they're down multiple points. I think we're just used to watching basketball sitting here and being like, here come X. Here comes the calves. Here comes the rockets.

And the only team really that we've seen like storm back in a game has been the rockets last night. Right? Like can you think of a conference finals game where the team that was down double digits came back and won? Celtics said earlier in the series. In this series? Okay. Was it game two? Yeah. Hey everybody. We'll be back to talk a little bit of Warriors Rockets plus some offseason rumors. But first, a word from our sponsor. Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show, Group Chat is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Hiring every business needs great people and a better way to find them. Something better than posting your job online and just praying for the right people to see it. ZipRecruiter knew there was a smarter way, so they'd

built a platform that finds the right job candidates for you. ZipRecruiter learns what you're looking for, identifies people with the right experience, and invites them to apply for your job. These invitations have revolutionized how you find your next hire. In fact, 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. And ZipRecruiter doesn't stop there. They even spotlight the strongest applications you receive, so you never miss a great match. The right candidates are out there. ZipRecruiter is how you find them. Businesses of all sizes, trust. ZipRecruiter for their hiring needs.

Right now, my listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA. ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer MBA. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right. Well, let's talk a little bit about the Cavs in the Rockets, just briefly.

Justin and I obviously talked a bunch about this yesterday on the Ringer NBA show. Kevin, you were there. They got you got out. They got you got out. No hop in offense after game four. I wanted to ask you because Iggy, questionable, Clay were not sure, did not, did you feel like he looked like himself?

No way. Okay. I mean, after he went down holding his knee, he came back, air brawled his first shot, and he hit something after that because he's Clay Thompson. He can probably shoot, you know,

not having a jump. He is Clay Thompson. Yeah, but he certainly wasn't moving the same on the defensive end around offense, running through screens, didn't look the same. And if he's limited at all, and Eagle Doll is out,

he used to steal another one for, sure I think no doubt I'm really fascinated the series could go on for like 10 more games as far as I'm concerned so good what were you gonna do if you were stuck in the in the in the in the fence off area did you were you gonna go like bare grills and like drink your pee what's that movie where it's like Jennifer Conley has to stay overnight in a Walmart and they like just like oh yeah career opportunity yeah yeah what was the one was stuck in the airport

The terminal. The terminal. So we call the Oracle, and it's Kevin stuck in Oracle Arena. We can really note this for a few weeks now. It's right to itself. Was there anything you felt like you noticed watching Golden State live

over the last couple of nights that you just hadn't noticed maybe on TV? Is anything like we don't see when we're watching the left to right stuff that you noticed from the way they've been playing or even Houston? I mean, I think Houston's played them hard the entire series and that's even more apparent

and seeing it in person. Like they play them tough, right? Like everything's hard for Golden State. Even like in that 41 point loss in game three, it sounds ridiculous to say, but up until the middle of the third quarter, Houston made it hard on Golden State. Like they really have to fight with their little quirky little, you know, fancy off-ball actions with a lot of isolations. Like they're running double the ISOs this year with a lot with KD.

So Houston has really changed the Golden State's offense with their intense defense. And then game four, obviously, they took it to another level. Talk about that because Verna was roasting you. Verna was putting you on the barbecue when you were talking about how they are, like the scheme is actually good, but it's just like what can you do when a team is that talented and sometimes they're going to win by 41 points. But like that is the correct defensive approach to play that. For sure. Like the funny thing is is like today people are tweeting me and Chris like some people telling Chris he needed to apologize to me and me telling Chris I need to apologize to hit. So it's like people still like are one side of the fence or the other.

I still tend to think. I like what you did there. One side. I like what you did there. Well done. I still think it's Houston entered the series with a terrific game plan

and they made a tweaking game for especially Iguodal out. Clay Thompson now, maybe injured. Sure. That took them to another level on the defensive end. We'll see how Golden State response.

Listen, I'm not going to root for injuries. I'm very pro-human here on this podcast. That's really good. That's some incredible takes in this podcast. I know. It's really wild takes.

Right. But wouldn't it not be better for the rest of the league if it sees that the Warriors aren't infallible, that they're fallible? Yeah. That they're palpable, right. Yeah. We've seen that they're infallible. Yeah. But if a few injuries knock them off their pedestal, the rockets advance because they've gone for it. And now all of a sudden people aren't tanking as much. What if this is the answer to tank? So you think that the rockets beating the warriors inspires the magic not to tank? I love this. This is a very, this is a very grindlewold for the Harry Potter. Don't blow it up. For the greater good. Traverse. Shouldn't we root for injuries here? Here's the thing is I do think a Houston Boston finals is inspirational.

And let me tell you that as someone who will not be watching a Houston Boston five of us. That is your wish name there. Yes, I am going to Atlantis if that happens. With Joel. Pallet, do you have a question? You have a question. Is it possible that the Celtics are just not going to lose at home through this? entire postseason, and lose to either Golden State or Houston in seven.

So essentially carry every single game at the garden until game seven of the finals. I mean, it's possible. Well, I think the more interesting question here is like, how do they match up if they against either of these teams? I think they match a great physically and poorly talent-wise. Yeah. I mean, like they have the best defensive basketball. So it's like, yeah, they could potentially steal a gamer here, you know.

I could. Well, the Celtics rather an injured warriors team or the Rockets, where they are now with Luke, perhaps not being a factor. Injured Warriors. Any other, like the Warriors rocket stuff. I'm just trying to think if there was anything we wanted to hit with that. I guess, like, I don't want to talk about fatigue anymore.

Oh, I know what I wanted to say. Zach Mack came up to me today and told me that a Golden State Warriors buddy, Zach Mac's one of our podcast producers, and he said that his Golden State buddy was like out on Durant. Durant was screwing up their offense, holding up the ball. Now, I don't know who this guy is.

Come on desktop, Zach McHaghan. I think his friend also is just tweeting at LeBron James for drinking water on the scorers table. Did you get any sense of frustration from Warriors fans that you saw in Oakland? Was there any like, no? No, and there shouldn't be. Because if you don't have Kevin Durant, then what do you do when Houston's forcing you into those isolations? It's only Steph. He should have taken that last shot.

Yeah, they didn't. The last shot will go down. Those fans don't care, man. They're checking their eye watching. for their stock exchange. I believe the term is after watch. Kyle, any other Rockets warrior stuff? We actually don't have any questions about that yet.

But I will say, I think that it's been noted on Twitter and just like people talking about the Warriors crowd that they do have a certain different type of maybe embracement of Curry than they do of Duran. And I don't know where it's just because Curry has been there longer. It's just like he's, I think he's more fun to watch. personally, but like I get why they're like somehow pitting them against you. It's, it's, it's, uh, I kind of, I kind of see it. It's, it's first significant other versus second significant, you know, like, KD is the thing that weaponized the warriors and made them indestructible and Steph is the thing that made them

lovable. I mean, you're not, you're never gonna fall out of love with that. It's really poetic. Right? It's like Wade in Miami. Like, I assume during that era, they, they thought Wade was their guy and LeBron was just a hired hand, essentially. Yeah, I think that Kevin definitely changes a little bit of the way they play, but Kevin's off to also like the safety valve for sure.

You're right. I mean, like those ISOs do become stuff. You need to isolate in the playoffs. Any interesting talk from around the conference finals, like any rumblings you heard, because I want to talk a little bit about offseason stuff and some of the other teams that are sort of positioning themselves. Do you talk to anybody about any of this stuff that's been bubbling up, Kauai stuff? Not really quai stuff or anything like that.

There's really nothing new with that as far as I know. but um did a guy named uncle dennis just really extension of some of the combine stuff that you wrote about on the ringer this week okay yeah definitely check out Kevin's combine article we gotta talk about doc the Lord of Wiltshire Country Club love out of him

ice back there the number one clippers fans at the ringer how are you feeling about this I know we're not gonna hear you so have to relay it single tier emoji running down Isaac Lee's face Doc Rivers re-uped with the Clippers as a coach mixed to a lot of uh received with a lot of mixed emotion on our ringer NBA slack today. That was the only pro voice.

You were pro doc. Why don't you make the case for Doc? I just don't see why it's such a bad move. He did a particularly good job this year with the least amount of talent he's had in his run there. Yeah. And if you take away his GMing power, which is like his biggest flaw, he's still able to do enough on the coaching end that they were able to flirt with, what was it, the nine seed, ultimately.

I still think he got a lot out of some of those guys that I think maybe other coaches might not have been. And you look at what they're trying to do, where they're trying to walk this line between still being competitive, sort of, while also building for the future. I think he really fits that MO because he's shown that he could work with guys like Joanne Evans and whatnot. Yeah. Well, I mean, what did you think of it? I thought it was a little – you know, like I think they need to rebuild. And Doc, part of the reason he left the Celtics is just he didn't want to be there for the rebuild. Now, if they're going to – if they're going to take this middle path, which I think we all agree is hard to do,

and highly dependent on how attractive the market is. It's the right move. I'm less strident about it since Justin talked to me about it. We had a heart-to-heart on Slack. I mean, I see the utility in it, but I also think, like, I just kind of feel like you're delaying the inevitable to a certain degree. Like so much of this team depends on Lou Williams, Danil Gallinari locked up for a significant period of time.

Like, all these, like, guys who are 25, 28, 29 years old and it's like winning 42, 43, 44 games is like not a sustainable way to build a team if you can't land those free agents. The thing is, it's like, who are you going to hire?

You got to trade another first rounder for a coach. So Doc is a guy players like around the league. Cliffers are going to have cap space next summer. So, yeah, it's like who's still out there, right? Like Dwayne Casey, is that really a huge upgrade over Doc?

Steve Clifford, essentially a doc guy from the doc school, am I right? You know, like, that sort of like hard-nosed defensive school. I don't really know who's out there unless you want to take a run at a college coach and hope you hit the next Brad Stevens. That was my thought, too, because it's like you talk about if you're going to fire your coach, you need to know who you're going to get after him. And like, especially if the players like Doc and you want at least a semi-competitive team

and you're trying to see if you can package a deal for Kauai, then why go and get like, why go and get like Stackhouse, for example? Like, he's not going to come in and be like the guy right away. So there was really no upgrade there, so I don't understand. That's why I personally was more like, this is a fun move. I think the thing that's really exciting about this move, incredibly exciting about this move, is you have another year of Doc Rivers combined with an Austin River's contract year.

Yeah, that's right. It's like trying to enrich the Rivers' family of generational wealth. It's a Jared Kushner-esque conflict of interest that I just cannot wait to watch. Isaac looks like he either ate a ghost pepper or is looking at the next five years of his life. Kevin, let's talk a little bit about the Kauai sweepstakes. Because today, I can't remember who reported it. I think Slam was talking about that may have been aggregated. I can't remember, but that the clippers were going to get into the Kauai mix.

We were talking about this a little bit before the game today. And I think I'm probably on the side of like, like the spurs don't have to do anything at this point. And like, this is a lot of fun speculation. But if I'm Popovich and if I'm Bufram, I'm just like, You leak as many stories as you want, talk to as many people as you want, try and stir up as many, like, fake trade packages as you want. You're a top three player, unless we get a top three player back, forget it. Well, it's like we talked about earlier.

Like, you know, the deal, Bill Simmons is throwing out a lot. Like the 12th pick, 13th pick with Tobias Harris and a future Clippers first, it's like, yeah, maybe as a last resort, a few other clippers, but you don't do that in June, right? Right. If you're the Spurs, I think you try to drag this out, try to fix the relationship. And if you can't, say, hey, guess what? You're going to sit out the whole year again? Come back. You know, come back in training camp and play.

Yeah. And then maybe he raises his value or you screw yourself. That's always possible. But I think you try to extend it if you're the Spurs. Well, I thought it was interesting is before this, there was a local report in the San Antonio Express News, I believe it is, that suggested that the Spurs were willing to offer Kauai that max extension, which seems like a public olive branch. Yeah, it seems like it was timed well to suggest we don't have to move quickly here.

we still hold this big option over Kauai. I love talking about Kauai trade packages and possible destinations for Kauai and whether or not Jordan Brand is behind all this. But it would surprise you at all if you wake up on Friday and it's like Spurs and Leonard reach agreement on Supermax? Not at all. I mean, I think that Lamarcus Aldridge's first year

kind of points the way forward in terms of like a framework for how it could work. You know, Lamarcus was unhappy the whole year wanted out, whisper said, they pop figured it out. And then the next year is like, that was on me. I didn't know how to do it. I figured it out.

Or does it go like Vince Carter when he got traded many years ago and they traded him for old Alonzo morning and like two suck around picks or whatever it was? You go that way too where it gets worse during the season. So that's like the bet the spurs have to make. Like you got to try to fix it because Kauai is unbelievable. Yeah. But if you can't fix it, then you're there in a spot where like, oh, do we wait? Do we hold off here?

or we'd pull the trigger like October, you know, right before the season. Yeah, the heart, like the hardened timing. Did you really? I think the more recent example that is the Kyrie thing, right? Like where he was upset, he wanted to trade and the cabs gave it to him. And now it's like if Kauai's unhappy, but if you have the infrastructure there that the cabs didn't have to like sort of win. Yeah, Dan Gilbert made that trade.

Right. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So it's like where, which that's kind of your fork in the road, I think, for the stories. What is enough for Kauai then? Like, would you build a package around Brandon Ingram? Is Markal Foltz and maybe. Dario and picks enough. I don't know.

Like, we're at the point here where it's like, I'm saying if I'm the spurs, I just wouldn't say no to everything. Yeah. So you would bank, like going all the way to February the trade deadline, like at that point, and then you make the decision or you're just riding it out.

I'd be very, very, very interested to see if Kauai Leonard did not play until February. Is this a, are we, is he on strike? Is that what's going on? Like a full holdout. Is that what's happening? Now with Dodgers games. Palo, any other questions before we get out of here?

Well, there's a question of, from Labin Massey, who's the fall guy for the Warriors if they lose? Oh, I like that. It's a good question. It's probably KD. Just because it's always KD, right? Tremon would be the obvious, like, it depends on what happens.

If they just get beat straight up, I think you probably would blame the lack of depth. Is it Steve Kerr? Man. Why did Kurtok call the timeout? I can see people doing that. But is that like one, like two mistakes? in three years he's made like we're talking about you know the fall guy yeah i don't know

do we want to talk about their center rotation and like how they have like four centers that they're not playing that's bad that's that's oh that's not great's fall yeah yeah you know i don't know like is there really a fall guy can you have a fall guy you can't blame bob myers because like that's what he has to deal with he's made some good draft picks i mean that these guys just aren't ready yet yeah i mean at this point there would not be a fog i mean you're talking about like guys being injured KD. Not taking the shot and then Clay not calling the time out.

Those are kind of fluky things, but at the same time, it's not like we feel like the Warriors are now not going to win this series for sure. I feel like there's not a pure scapegoat yet. It would have to be some kind of real, real disaster. Losing could be like one of the best things

that happens to them because it could energize this particular group for the next couple of seasons. That's like the Draymond take, When he said the other night, like, this is good for us. This is a good feeling for us. We need to feel this. It would subject us to an entire summer of wondering, what should the Warriors do to improve? And we would start to hear whispers about Clay, whether or not he should take that extension or go elsewhere,

whether or not Draymond should be traded now or in the future. Honestly, it would be great for the ringer.com. I agree with you. Any last questions? Yeah, I don't know if you guys missed this a little bit of news. I think it's pretty important. It was reported that the Angela Ball is going to have a... private workout with the Warriors, I would like to know your comment on that.

A private workout? A private workout with the Warrison. Oh, okay. So it's on NBC or something. Oh, okay. So it wasn't like, no, it's legit. It was not big ball of random media. Honestly, Nick Young's on the Warriors, the crazier things are going to happen. Nick Young's like, played nine minutes like or whatever it was last night. Listen, if you're light years ahead and you think that Lonzo is going to be a player maybe 10 years from now and he might be getting into free agency,

wouldn't you want to get into the family circle, though? for Lonzo. Why not? Relationships matter. Same thing with Costa Santinacupo. Oh yeah. In the draft this year. There you go. Right?

I like it. Set up for Deianis's free agency. It's all connected. All right. For Jason, for Kevin, for Justin, for Palo, for everybody in the back. This has been group chat. Check out draft class going live tomorrow after Rocket's Warriors. He checked on Sunday.

Chris and Kev on Tuesday. He check everything next week. We'll keep it going throughout the finals. Basketball is very good. basketball is very good.