The Ringer NBA Show - The Draft Mailbag, Vol. 3 | Draft Class (Ep. 262)

Episode Date: May 4, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor and Jonathan Tjarks are joined by Danny Chau to answer listener-submitted questions about the 2018 NBA draft. Topics include: finding next year’s Donovan Mitchell, Terry Rozier and the diminishing need for point guards, strategies for trading picks, and more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Before we get into today's mailbag edition of Draft Class, let me tell you about what's going on at The Ringer. On the site, you can find a great piece by copy editor Jack McCalsky on how Terry Orsir, aka Scurry Terry, got to where he is now. Also, The Ringer Podcast Network has a ton of shows to listen to, including The Dave Chang Show, the second episode of which went up yesterday. In the first part of that, Dave and our boss Bill Simmons talked about how NBA players would fare as chefs. It's a fun one. Please go check that out. And while you're at it, please go check out our new merch on The Ringer. ringer.com slash shop. You can pre-order Melo-thon t-shirts inspired by Tuesday's NBA desktop episode and which we put

on a telethon to buy out Carmelo Anthony's $28 million contract. Go purchase that on the ringer.com slash shop. And now it's time for draft class. Welcome to the ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor and this is draft class. It's the first Friday of the month, which means it's mailbag week. I'm super excited to talk NBA draft with the man on the line. calling in from Dallas, Texas.

It's the professor of small ball. Jonathan Charks. What's up, John? Oh, I got a promotion. I think I'm still an adjunct, though. I might as much fun as the playoffs for, it's fun to talk draft too, so I'm excited. Hell yeah, man, it's going to be fun.

Back from its one-week hiatus here in Los Angeles, it's popular writer, Deanie Chow. I've just been in the content minds, just cranking out content, but I just want to explain this little inside joke. People have been calling me popular writer Danny Chow for the past week or two. An Eater L.A. article on David Chang's new Ringer podcast, The Dave Chang Show, was written and it had mentioned me as a reason for our site's kind of expanding food coverage.

And I was called a popular writer in that piece. I've been mocked mercilessly in my personal and professional life ever since. I think the funny thing, too, is like, we're moving into the food space. I liked how they phrased that. We're in the draft space here on this podcast. Danny recently visited Portland, wrote a wonderful food diary, and it's titled Chowdown. Highly recommend checking that out on The Ringer.com. And just a heads up, we're recording this on Thursday afternoon.

And obviously, you're not going to hear this until Friday morning. So if you want to hear about Thursday night's NBA playoff games, listen to group chat. We have Chris Ryan, Justin Verrier, Haley, O'Shaughnessy, Paolo Yugetti, and me on the show on Thursday night. That'll be in podcast form, video form on YouTube. So go check that out if you'd like. Also, our intro music is brought to you by the band Oso O'D. and the podcast is produced by Isaac Lee. Isaac, what's going on?

I'm good, man. I'm just disappointed that you didn't introduce Paolo as Paulo Esco blog. I thought that we had an agreement that we're just going to refer to him as that from now on instead of his actual name. The greatest ringer nickname. It really is. It's an all-timer, I think. Shouts to Jason Concepcion. Other than Isaac Isley.

Let's not mention that again. Awesome. Well, let's get to it, guys. Jazz defeated the Brokets 116 to 108 on Wednesday. Rudy Gobert was absolutely all over the floor. unbelievable, Dante Exum, made Danny Chow very, very happy. My guy! Yes, looked like a lot of pick.

But we've talked plenty about Rudy Gobert and the Obama comparisons, and we actually got a lot of questions from you guys. Thank you so much for submitting them using hashtag ringer NBA on Twitter. And a lot of them were about Donovan Mitchell, who had 17 and 11. We had three really good ones from Michael A. Bird the second, Michael Carroll, and a guy named The Waiter. And they all basically asked the same question, quote, who is the Donovan Mitchell of the 2018 NBA draft.

But before we can actually answer that, and I'm not sure if there's any actual clear answers, because so much it's dependent on situation. I think it's important to understand what makes Donovan Mitchell so successful as a young player. So, Charks, what is it about Donovan Mitchell, his qualities that do make him so good at early stage of his career? Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is the odds are there's not Donovan Mitchell in this draft.

Like, the odds of that a guy at 13 is going to be arguably like one of the best players in league as a rookie is pretty small. I mean, it almost never happens. And, you know, I mean, Mitchell's a great player. We've all watched them in the playoffs. I think what jumps out with watching him, especially going back to his college days, is like the things he does well, projected so well to the league. He came in with an NBA body, NBA athleticism. He's really strong, long arms, great shooter. And then he came into the perfect system. If you look at how many rookies you can go to a team that's already a playoff team that just lost their top score and has all the pieces to let him be at his best right away and gave him the keys to the

team. Like it was pretty much the perfect marriage of team, player, and fit. Right. There aren't that many teams out there that's going to give a rookie a 29.1 usage rate. That's absolutely astounding. And it was something that happened almost immediately. After basically two weeks, they were just like, okay, Mitchell, you're a guy. For sure. I think the stars kind of aligned for Mitchell in the sense that clearly the Utah Jazz observed him as the player that they wanted. They traded up for him with Trey Liles had a good year in Denver. I mean, Mitchell was unbelievable, but let's not forget, Trey Liles is still a pretty good prospect.

And Denver, had they gotten O.G. and Nobie with the 24th pick, would have been a mutually strong deal for each team. It just didn't work out for Denver. But for Utah, clearly they observed him as a guy that could come in and play with Gordon Hayward if he had stayed in Utah or a guy that could play without him. And that's absolutely what happened with Hayward leaving for Boston, where Mitchell was a guy in college where the conversation last year at this time was, well, is he a point guard? Is he a point guard?

Is he a point guard? Does he really have true point guard skills? And it's like, it doesn't matter. Like, that's not what the league is today. And I think Utah understood that. They took him in and said he's going to be a scorer first for us. But he could also develop his playmaking. So they had Ricky Rubio able to develop his skills alongside him. And I think the situation was fantastic.

But in addition to that, though, Mitchell himself has, a foundation of skills, I think, Danny, that are something to at least look for if you need a guy that's going to explode right away. Really great athlete so he can at least handle himself on both ends of the floor. He's hardworking, and he's also a pretty good shooter. He's good at a lot of different things. I don't think there's any glaring weaknesses with him, so maybe is it that? There's no red flag with him. Is that what you need to look for? I think with Mitchell's situation, it's also the personnel that he's being surrounded by. You have Ricky Rubio, who's one of the best on-ball defenders at the point-guard position,

and you have Joe Ingalls who's just a guy who... The great Joe Ingalls. Yeah, he can do everything. And he looks like an NBA player, by the way, Chris Vernon. And you put those three as the kind of point guard and wing defenders. And those three, they're one of the best defensive trios in the league by defensive rating. All the responsibility isn't on him, despite the usage rating charts, do you feel like maybe for finding the next Mitchell, it's about more so finding the right fit for that player

more than anything else where he's in an offense with multiple ball handler? He doesn't need to do all of it. I mean, that's partly. I think, too, like the three-point shot is just so big because the three-point shot translate right away. Like, if Mitchell is more like Dennis Smith, where he has to attack the rim, the team kind of has to be perfectly built around him to succeed.

But a guy like Mitchell, I think he's shooting like seven-threes a game. You could almost go anywhere and shoot seven-threes a game. You can make them. I think that just makes sure it's so much easier having that shot in your bag. I was looking back at the Mitchell-scuttering report from our 2017 NBA draft guide last year, Like some of his weaknesses, they're still kind of there in a way.

They haven't necessarily gone away. He still takes some wild shots. He's still not the most efficient guy. So that makes me think like usually when I'm looking for the quote unquote next Mitchell, I'm looking for an efficient guy. I'm looking for someone who's not going to take wild shots. But I think the unique thing with him that's maybe not so common is the fact that he does play within himself. The development hasn't happened yet in some of those years.

But he knows what to do as we saw in games. two the other night where when he needed to play playmaker with Ricky Rubio out, he took that on and did take less risky shots. Granted, it wasn't the most efficient night for him, which is a really strong overall night for him. Right. And there was that one pass that he made. He funneled into the defense and then just whipped this like magical pass out to Joe Ingalls for three. I was like, I had no idea he had that in him, actually. It's kind of a cliche, but like he has a good feel for the game. Like Mitchell's just a smart basketball player. And that goes a long way too. when you're a young guy.

He doesn't need to be coached about basic things. He found his role on both sides of the ball. He reads the floor reasonably well. So even though he takes a lot of bad shots at times, he's able to exist in this very disciplined system. So I'm going to pitch you a guy as I think, not the same player as Donovan Mitchell, but this is my guy, Miles Bridges.

I think there's something there in terms of Miles. He's a pretty projectable three-point shot. He's a great athlete. He's got reasonable amounts of feel for the game and ball handling ability. So you can stick him somewhere, assuming have him take like six threes a game, I think we'll have pretty good stats right away as a rookie.

And I think he'll be able to contribute defensively because of athletic ability. I think Miles Bridges is an interesting pick. And just to give the listener some context, you have him ranked fifth. He's a six foot six forward from Michigan State, sophomore, projected lottery pick right now. But it doesn't need to be a guard.

The next Mitchell doesn't need to be a guard. I'm not sure what you define it as is it like the next late lottery star. Is it like the Paul George's of the world? Or is that the guy who rises up consensus rankings? Because Mitchell, you know, we had him pretty high for most of last year. But a lot of places he rose up the rankings from late first or early second even into the lottery. A lot of that was because of his combine numbers. For sure.

They were just outstanding. And his interviews as well. I mean, that's one thing we didn't mention. He has the it factor about him. He's a hard worker, high IQ guy on and off the court. That's, I think, another type of thing that I'd be looking for when it comes to finding the quote-unquote ex-Mitch. I mean, it wasn't for sure he was going to declare, right? Like, he was kind of waffling back and forth for a while

before he put his name in the draft. Right. At the beginning of the season, I'm pretty sure he was a second round kind of bubble guy. And then right around after the combine, after the interviews, it was very clear that he was going to be a top 14 guy. For sure. Danny, what are your thoughts on the Bridges pick for sharks?

I like it. I'm really scared about his length. And whether or not he's going to be able to defend fours at the next level, which is where I kind of see him as. I love him as a prospect, and I know this is going to ding me some points on the Isaac Lee scale. You know, I'm definitely rooting for him. He's an interesting player.

I like Bridges a lot. I have him ranked 10th. I believe you have him in the same range as me, Danny. Good player. Should be a lottery pick. I'd be very happy if I were a fan of a team that drafted him in that range. I think he could certainly exceed expectations, as Chark said. For me, I don't really have a quote-unquote Mitchell in this draft.

I'm not sure that guy is there. In terms of players that we actually kind of have ranked higher than a lot of other places, Zaire Smith's from Texas Tech. Maybe that's somebody, if he has a huge combine, great draft workouts, he's somebody that we see rise up their rankings and becomes more of a quote-unquote consensus lottery pick. If that's the definition of the next Mitchell you're looking for, someone that I don't love, Colin Sexton, Alabama point guard. We've talked about him before, Charks, where he's good.

I think he shares some of the same qualities as Donovan Mitchell with his just really, he has a foundation. He can defend. He can do different things on the offensive end of the floor. He can score or pass. He also has the weird habit of taking some bad shots as well. Is Sexton a guy charts that you observe as somebody that granted right now he's a lottery pick? Oh, you know, he's ranked lottery by most people that if he slips to the 12, 13 range that he's something that could completely exceed expectations. I think eventually, but I think with Sexton, the three-point shot, that's not really the foundation of his game. He's more of like a lead ball handler, drive to the rim, driving kick guy. And to me, like, is the three point of really the foundation for Mitchell,

though? I mean, he broke the NBA record for threes in a rookie season. 34% though. He's not, you know, great. I mean,

takes a lot of them. Yeah, I think the threat, the threat of him. The threat of him shooting from that distance. In a way, forget the percentage. Don't look at it.

It's about his ability to create space off the dribble that makes him the threat that needs to be defended that opens him. And I think, too, like, with Utah's system, like,

there's so many non-shoaters around Mitchell, he almost has to take those shots, right? It's not going to be favors or Rubio taking too many threes. So Mitchell has to take them. I think, like, a young player who can make threes, the transition is a lot easier. So to me, I think volume three points shooting is huge for a young guy if you're going to be good right away. Who's a guy that you thought maybe either last year or in past years that was like that next steal that ended up not

being a steal? And like, why were you wrong about that guy? If you guys are thinking about, I have mine, like, I'm ready to go. KJ. McDaniels. Yeah, that's a good question. Let me think about that for a second, Kevin. KJ. McDaniels is the one for me in the 2014 draft from Clemson. He's a risk. I knew he was a risk, but I had him ranked like 14th or 15th, and I think he ended up going second round, I want to say. Yeah.

And he's not in the league anymore. And KJ was a guy where I viewed him as somebody who had a foundation. Again, defense, athleticism. I thought, you know, if he proves his three-point shot, if he becomes a good shooter, there he's going to be. a guy who's a great defensive player in the league and also can at least handle himself and spot up in the corner and space the floor,

that didn't happen. It just hasn't happened. A shot never got better. Granted, he had different opportunities in Houston, Philadelphia, and Brooklyn. Never happened with three teams that have improved the shots of other players as well. And his defense never really was what it was in college. That's what makes it so hard.

It really does. It's not easy. And even when you get it right, their career paths can go in completely different ways. Like, I remember being obsessed with Danny Granger's game. I thought he was going to be, like, a perfect two-way player who was mainly going to be a defensive beast. And then all of a sudden, like, his fourth year in Indiana, he's scoring, like, 28 points a game. I'm just like, I never saw this coming.

You're 100% right. Like, someone tweeted me the other day, like, good call on Mitchell. You like, you saw you at my 10th. It's like, yeah, great. Like, I had him 10th. I feel really good about that. But I would have drafted Malik Munk over him. I would have drafted Frank Nilequino over him.

I would have drafted Dennis Smith, Josh Jackson. and Jonathan Isaac, Dearon Fox, and maybe some of those guys end up better players. But right now it doesn't look like it. And it's the same thing with the Milwaukee Bucks drafting Janus 15th. Yes, they deserve a ton of credit for taking Janus. All these steals that occur like in the middle of the draft or in the late first round in the second, the teams deserve credit. But where was that guy on their board?

A lot of us got it wrong even when we got it right. And Mitchell is somebody where around draft time, there was a lot of noise about the Knicks looking at him and eight, Hornet Ten. interest. I just had the fear with Mitchell where his shots were too volatile. There's a lot of poor shot selection where that's what held me back. But everything else that we're seeing

now is why I think Utah traded up for him. He has everything else. Along those same lines, the guy I really liked back in the 2015 draft was Jarrell Martin. He's in Memphis. I really loved his game. I thought he had a good feel for a big guy. But the three-point shot never came. And I think that's

the thing with a lot of these guys now is like the three-point shot is just so important. that you're just really gambling on whether a guy develops that fully. He's shot three is okay at LSU, but not great. But the jump, instead of becoming better, he got worse at it. And then it's really hells his game back on the NBA. Those LSU guys are tough even with like Ben Simmons. It's like he played no defense there, but now he's one of the better defenders in the league.

Yeah, you know, I saw Jarrell attempt a between the legs dunk in a game, and I was like, that's my guy. He pulled it off, I think. Yeah, yeah, I think he did pull it off. We may be making the same mistake with Cyrus Smith, but we'll see. Elsewhere in the playoffs, we've seen a lot of other young players having success because of their defense. So we got a handful of questions about that from Andrew Orgaigai asked what high floor, low ceiling, late first, early second round guys can make an immediate impact like the Jordan Bells and Shemi-Ogillays of the world. And then Andrew Del Toro asked about an article you wrote recently on The Ringer.com about Ogeana Nobby and Pascal Seacum. And Andrew asked, who stands out of the group of the super long potential 3&D comma forwards is the best defender versus the LeBrons, KD,

Yanis's of the world, but can also shoot enough to stay on the floor. Who is that, Charks? I'm not sure there's anyone in this draft. I mean, that's why it's such a rare skill set, those big forwards you can shoot. Like, the guy I really liked was DeAndre Hunter, but he went back to school of Virginia, and that could have been a guy, I think, would have been a big mover in this draft if he had stayed in. Right.

I think if there's a guy who kind of fits the physical model, it's Justin Jackson from Maryland. Just from his physique, he's 6-7 with a 7-3 wingspan. He's got that Draymond-esque size to him, huge shoulders, really strong frame. His athletic profile isn't really anything special, though. That's the thing with Ananoi and Pascal Seacom. Ananoi is just a freak as far as coordination. Yeah, it's a quick twitch. And Pascal Seacom is maybe the fastest end-to-end runner I've seen at the power forward position.

He grinds that dude. That guy is extremely fast. He plays so hard. And so Justin Jackson doesn't really have either of that. Yeah. I think he's a smart defender. He uses his strength and length really well. But also, he could actually shoot the three pretty well, too.

So I think he's a definitely high floor type guy, but I don't really trust him with the LeBron assignment yet. Andrew asked him the question, like, can also shoot enough to stay in the floor. And I'm not sure who that guy is exactly. One guy who comes to mind that can't shoot at all right now is Jared Vanderbilt, who's only testing the waters. Oh, yeah. Kentucky prospect, probably one.

of the better defenders in the draft, can defend multiple positions, can handle the ball a little bit, just can't shoot. And that's the thing. With KJ. McDaniels, I thought, improve his jumper, he's going to be able to defend. He's going to be able to stay on the floor, but that didn't happen. With Jared Vanderbilt, it's the same thing. Maybe that never happens. Right. It's kind of the Andre Robertson. What do you think about his teammate, Diallo? I think he's a freak athlete, and I don't know if there's anything else. He really defended well, though, towards the end of the season. Charks, how about you? I'll put up my guy. He's not quite, quite as big, like height-wise,

is my guy Raleigh Alkins from Arizona. I think he's got that big frame, pretty athletic, competitive guy. The shots there sometimes. If he can become a really good shooter, I think he'll stick in the league as a defensive player who can guard multiple positions. With Alkins, do you worry that in college, the defense

wasn't there all the time? Well, I mean, that's why he's not going to be a very high draft pick. I think he has the tools. I think they are a very poorly coached team, so I don't wait. I mean, it was hard to say the roles that were all jumbled in that team. My thing is, is like with Shimmy, watching him in SMU, his defense for the most part, sometimes his intensity wasn't always there,

but for the most part, he was always grinding with Ciacom, constantly going hard. I mean, there's no doubt about him with in terms of his effort levels on the floor. Someone like with Raleigh Alkins, we all have him ranked as a first round pick right now, which isn't true for all outlets, but Alkins is somebody where it's not always there, so I'm maybe a little bit less confident with him, whereas maybe, look, some of these guys has to do its situation. Shemmy O'Dhley might not be this guy if he didn't fall into Boston where he can be enabled within his role and be very limited and actually get playing time.

I don't see that. Yeah, I don't see any other situation in which Shemi is actually starting in a playoff game. It's mind-blowing. Mind-blowing. Also, you know, there's a hell of a lot of attrition going on in the Celtics roster. So obviously someone had to step up. But, yeah, I don't think there's any other situation in which he's guarding Yonis. And you look at it like with Shemi, that's a lot of that is like a coach

trusting a young player. I think the perfect example, not to beat this horse, is with Prunty and Milwaukee in that series. So I loved Shemi's teammate at SMU Sterling Brown. But Pranti was like, you know what, I'm going to play Shabaz Muhammad. I'm going to trust a better over a rookie. Whereas Stevens said, you know what, I'm going to trust this rookie. He's a better player. Just go with it. And I'm going to coach the trust a player to give him minutes. A lot of coaches won't do it. It's tough, though, because in terms of Prunty, there's got to be a reason he was playing Shabaz Mohammed and Jason Terry over Sterling Brown. If Sterling Brown, if Sterling Brown was killing it in practice and locking down guys.

But he played well in the regular season. That's the thing. And the end of the season, he played well. And Pronti just won with his veterans. I think that might have been what it was, but I've just been kind of defending Joe Frumty at all the ringer podcasts and see it. That's the hill you're dying on, Kevin.

That's the very low, like, valid you're dying. I'm going to die on it. As soon as a coach is hired, I am dying on the hill, that's for sure. I'm not saying he's a great coach. I'm just saying that there's not a lot of all. options in the team. Craig Smith has a similar question about Shemi Ogiland also followed up with him.

How about does anyone with the great name in the draft? Who is the best name, Danny? I think we can all be in agreement that Admiral Schofield is the greatest name in this draft. Yeah. He's also probably like the best look. He's a bodybuilder. Yeah. Is he going to stay in this draft? He's even in for sure, though? Yeah, he's testing the

waters right now. Yeah. Admiral Schofield's a wing slash forward, incredibly muscular. It looks more like a football player. A third, 25-year-old man. Correct. Yeah, and he also shares a name with an actual admiral for the U.S. Navy. Frank Herman Schofield served in the Spanish-American War and World War I as an admiral.

A lot of crossover potential there. From Jerry, Cacchio, Ann. What do you make of the close grouping of prospects between the 20 to 40 range? Seems like all of the first round bubble guys can go as high as low teens or as late as mid-second round. i.e. Aaron Holliday, Kyrie Thomas, Shake Mill, and Jalen Brunson. Danny, what are your general thoughts on this kind of clump prospects right after the lottery into the middle of the second round? I mean, they're just going to be a bunch of three and D wings who are all the same size. And as we kind of talked about in the earlier question, a lot of these guys aren't going to be big enough to actually take on the three or four assignment. They're kind of relegated to the one and three, depending on how small people are. Like Kyrie Thomas. Like Hiree Thomas, yeah, like Joshua Kogi.

Shake Milton. Shake Milton, yeah, guys like that. It really depends on what you're prioritizing in this range. I don't know if there should be a consensus there. I talked to an executive recently who said to me, I was asking him about the teams that submit. Basically, for the NBA draft combine, the league sends a list of all the players that are eligible for the draft. And teams vote for the players that want to see at the combine. And I said to him, wouldn't it be an advantage not to vote for the guy that you actually have interest in?

Like if there's a guy that you have ranked 25, but you think everybody else has ranked like 400, wouldn't you not put that guy on your list? And he's like, yeah, but the thing is, is because there's so much knowledge in the league today, everybody knows about every player out there. Like when the Raptors drafted Bruno Cabocla, everybody knew about him. Everybody in the league knew that the Raptors had interest in him. Just the public didn't. Oh, man, that's an interesting thing.

Back when I was at Grantland, we actually had a little tip that Bruno Cabocla was going to be drafted and I was going to write about him, but it seemed like such a far-fetched tip that... Because I watched... There were literally three videos of him, and two of them were vertical. Oh, wow. And like vertical cell phone video?

Vertical cell phone... iPhone 4, iPhone 5. 15 seconds of him, like, either grabbing a rebound or dunking, and I was just like, we can't do this. Then he gets drafted, and I'm cursing myself. I'm absolutely cursing myself. See, the funny thing is, there's no more footage now than it was four years ago.

Oh. It's still the same. That is a burn. Come on, man. He led the 905 to a championship in the Chi League. The executive's point was that everybody knows these guys, but that doesn't mean everybody hasn't ranked the same. What he said to me is like this year especially that he feels like after 15 or 20, as

Jerry said with his question, he's like the next 40, 50 or even 60 guys, he thinks could be shuffled any which way at all, which makes rankings this year especially interesting. interesting because there are a couple guys that I like that I think should be like early second rounders that I've glanced at a couple other lists and I'm like this guy's not even in their top 60 and it doesn't make you wonder do I have it wrong it makes you wonder what are the different things that we are prioritizing because everybody has different opinions and different traits that they look for and that's always interesting with the draft I think in general like with any draft I feel like it's kind of like that there's like it's what it's called like the pyramidal

distribution of talent so like your tier one tier two tier three might be like five 10 guys But when it's like tier four, tier five, then like it should broaden out. The base of players should be. I feel like it would be weird if you all have the same top 50 at that point because there's so many possible players.

It just depends on what you value. Well, we also got a lot of questions about Terry Rozier's value in trades for teams that might need a point guard in this year's draft, but want to avoid picking one of them, whether it's Trae Young or Colin Sexton from Adam Bergman. If Danny Aange doesn't think the Celtics can keep Terry Rozier long term,

what is the highest possible pick he could obtain for him via trade should the Knicks the magic Sixers or Clippers be interested in him if they don't land a top three pick? Yeah, the funny thing about that is I wrote an article in the first week at the playoffs I was talking about scary terriers you're going to call him, which is fantastic.

What a nickname, huh? Scary Terry and Delon Wright as like, oh, these are guys you can maybe trade a late first round pick for and kind of get a little older point guard. And I was like maybe the Sons at 16 could trade for Scary Terry. But now it seems like it's almost too low off for his playoffs where now we're talking about like a top 10

pick. It's funny how fast these things can change. Right. That was my first thought as well. The Sons can actually make a pretty interesting package for Terry. I think they have the number 16 out there. They also have the 31st pick, which is basically the same as having a non-guaranteed first rounder. And those picks are incredibly valuable too. Right. If I'm Boston, maybe I'd be looking for a future pick more than anything else, more so than a pick in this year's draft, unless you're consolidating that for a bigger trade. But they already have so many guys on their team right now. I don't know if they necessarily need to know. rookie. Maybe you'd be better off trading for a future protected or maybe unprotected pick that could turn into a more valuable asset down the road when you don't necessarily know what your roster is going to look like. But certainly, if I'm a team in need of a point guard and I'm either not in love with any of the guys in this year's draft or you're not in a spot where it makes sense to take that player, I'd certainly pursue Rozier. Since we're talking about Rosier, let's try a quick exercise with him. And right now, I'm going to list you the consensus top 50s.

point guard rankings from before the 2017-18 season. So this is from October. And these rankings are from ESPN, SI, Reddit, Washington Post, and SB Nation. Here is the top 15. It was Steph, Russ, Hardin, Paul, Wall, Damian Lillard, Lurie, Lurvey, Irving, Mike Conley, Isaiah Thomas, Kemba Walker, Eric Bledso, Goran Drogich, Drew Holiday, George Hill. And obviously, that's changed this season. IT and Bletso and Hill all fell.

guys like Rubio and Rondo probably moved up. Ben Simmons is obviously in the top group. And Mitchell is, if you want to label him a point guard. Next year, Lonzo Ball, De Aaron Fox, Dennis Smith, Markle Fultz could all make the leap up as well. But Charks, I want to know where Terry Rozier is slotted if you are projecting ahead to next season and ranking the best point guards for the 2018-19 season. You know what's crazy is like, I don't think Jeff Teague is on that list, right? I don't think so. Like, would you really take Jeff Teague or Dennis Schrooter over Terry Rozier next season?

Well, I mean, I just tells you how deep the position is. I feel like it's all about your role on the team. I'm not sure I would trust Rozier in like a ball dominant role like Teague has shown he could do. I think like the appeal of Rozier right now is that he could be a complimentary point guard. I feel like he could be like a better version of Patrick Beverly. And I like point guards like that. I like point guards who don't need to dominate the ball, who play defense, spread the floor. So in that's, I think, like, he could have a top 15 value if he's not necessarily a top 15 point guard.

Like, Jeff Teague, I'm not well Jeff Teague, but he's a good player. I mean, are we sure he's better than Jeff Teague right now, Perry? The only starter in the league that I'm convinced he's better than is Dennis Schroeder. But also, I'd be terrified of putting Rozier in that role. You know, having him kind of put the entire horrible team that the Hawks had this season on his back. Because I'm not yet convinced of his decision making quite yet, even though his... It's got a lot better. It's got a lot better.

but his defense is kind of his calling card right now for me. I think the idea is like that role that Schroeder has is just a bad role to give a small guard unless he's like amazing. So I think with like Terry, I really like him like in Phoenix where he could play with Booker not dominate the ball and be a complimentary piece.

I think that's where he becomes pretty valuable. I think it's when it comes to valuing Rosier in a trade, it's worth considering the trade from two years ago when George Hill went from the Pacers to the Jazz and the Jazz sent the number 12 pick to the Hawks. So that's what Atlanta gave up was Jeff Teague. Maybe Rozier's value was right around that range.

Maybe a tick better, a late lottery pick. I think that's very fair. But again, if you're a team in that range, you're probably going to want to draft a guy, Colin Sexton, who could be available at that point ahead of Rozier because of his youth factor? You're shaking your head, Danny. It looks like you disagree. You prefer, is it the certainty of Rozier that he's shown that he can do it at a high level in the playoffs? There is a certain amount of certainty in that, you know, you know you're getting a guy who can create threes off the dribble and who can defend who has like extremely long arms, high motor, athletic guy.

With Colin Sexton, there's a lot that still needs to be determined with his actual offensive game and how it translates to the NBA. Moving on, next question from Tom McMillan. How high up in the draft can the clippers move if they trade both of their picks? And just for context, they have the 12th in the 13th pick, Danny. You know what? If I can't get my top two choice and I'm like a top five, I would maybe, I would consider that. Yeah. So at four or five, you would.

Sure. So let's sit, okay, I'm going to put you on this far. You're GM Danny Chow. You've just been hired by the Orlando Magic. Oh, my God. Who's the guy you want right there at five? Like who do you want? And he's not going to, he's not there.

He's not available. You're throwing clipboards across. Aiton's there. He's not there. He's not there. So you're trading five for 12, 13. What else do you want from the Clippers? Well, also, I am a terrible GM.

So I actually want you to fill in the blanks for me here. I would not. I would not do the trade. I would not do the trade. I would not. In any situation, and I've said this in previous podcasts, I can't see a situation in which they don't end up with Tray Young. The Clippers. No, sorry, the magic.

The magic. The magic. Well, I think if you look at past trade downs, like the one jumps out is the one where Sacramento went from 8 to 13, and they got Bogdanovich. I think if you're trading down, you want a little more certainty with that pick. So I think really it isn't so much packaging two lottery picks

as having one lottery pick, and then a younger veteran guy that you can count on. Otherwise, you're counting on two lottery picks, two rolls of the dice. Unless, I mean, look, every year's different, and everybody's rankings are different. And every executive, every GM, every coach has different rankings. Unless you are a team where the guy that everybody else has 14, you have five.

And you're like, why not trade down and get an extra shot here, an extra swing? Look at Denver. They got cute doing that and they lost OG. Like at some point, maybe just grab the guy you want or you need a tire lighten. That was an 11 spot drop, though. Like, that was a monumental risk. If, let's say, the Kings at 7, you know, again, another trade down. It didn't work out last time.

But it kind of did. They got Bogdanovich. It kind of did. Yeah, it kind of did. But again, like another situation like that, if Sacramento is at seven, and the Clippers call with 12 and 13, the Clippers call up and they want, I don't know, Tray Young or Miles Bridges, whoever. And if the Kings have Shea Gildes Alexander sixth on their board or something like that,

maybe you trade down. And then you can also get a Robert Williams or Kyrie Thomas or whoever it might be. Maybe you want to take a risk on a Mitchell Robinson type of player in that range. You can do that. And I certainly think that's appealing. And I would push for that if I were the Los Angeles Clippers, even though I don't know how many teams would bite. Right.

And the Kings in that situation would obviously draft two bigs because they just need more bigs. They need more bigs. Isaac, you're a Clippers fan. I want to know, if you're moving up, who do you want? Not Miles Ridges. Yeah, unfortunately, you're correct in assessing that I am. Indeed, a Clippers fan. We had this question last time we did a mailbag, and I think I concluded that no one would want to trade down.

I feel like the NFL draft is fresh in our minds, and we saw a lot of Belichikian moves in the NFL draft where teams are trading down and people are passing on Lamar Jackson and all that. I don't think that's likely in the NBA. If I'm the Clippers' GM, which I would not envy that job, by the way, I think I would aim for next year's pick. I would try to trade for maybe Atlanta's pick next year or let's just say, you know, Chicago would be like, oh, you know what, we got Laurie marketing. We're in a big city. We want to be good next year. We want to have like a strong core to move forward with.

We want to kind of sell the Chicago process to our fans or whatever. Maybe that's a market that you target. Be like, hey, yo, give us next year's top pick and we'll give you two of our picks and plus one of our young players. I don't know who that would be. At the same time, I am going back on my conclusion that I said last time, which is I don't think anyone would want to trade down. It's a good way to pivot to our next question from Joe Yu. Who would be the ideal big man, the Bulls would have a chance of drafting that could foot alongside Lorry Legend,

aka Lari Markerman, the Bulls currently have the sixth best odds in the NBA draft lottery. Charks, is there any big man that you particularly like next to Lari? I mean, this is kind of a cheek I'd say for every team just about, but really Jaron Jackson here, because Lowry's a high-usage big man, Jackson can kind of play the background, protect the rim, guard multiple positions. I think, like an offense, defense thing,

like a new school Tyson-Channa-Dert Novitsky thing could happen there with those two. Yeah, that's my dream pick for the Bulls. I actually think that's the ideal situation for Jaron Jackson. Well, another great pivot to our next question from Alex Tennyson, Charks. This is a small ball question for you. With Al Horford's immense success so far in the playoffs

as a switchy stretch big man, does that make Jaron Jackson more valuable as an NBA draft prospect in your eyes, even more so than he already was? I don't know, I mean, I had number two before the playoffs, so it's pretty much higher than that. I think I have him as a top three guy, too. So, like, three on my board.

Yeah, I think we're all pretty high on him. I don't think he's going to be usurping Aitn's physical abilities, and I think Donchich, especially with your league final four coming up, Like, that's a big testing ground for him. I don't know if he leapfrogs into that top two for me. It's certainly interesting. And he fits the Al-Horford mold, no doubt about that, with his ability to shoot and space the floor, defense's length. He fits the mold.

It's going to be the question of how far does he go? Because Al Horford is an elite defensive player in terms of all the little things, not just blocking shots. He's not a shot blocker. It's positioning. It's communication. It's rotating. It's all these little things. It's playing.

playing. Yeah, playmaking as well. I think also Horford can like facilitate he can shoot threes, he can put the ball on the floor, he can post up. Like, there aren't many Al Horford's in any draft. That guy is just a great basketball player. So that kind of like, it lets you know that when you look for comparable players. There aren't many. And that's really the one difference

with Jaron Jackson, he doesn't have Al Horford's playmaking ability, but then again, Al Horford doesn't have Jaron Jackson's shop-locking ability. There's differences between the players, but they are certainly very, very similar. Moving on to question from Captain Joe. Should Trey Young be considered at number one.

And today's NBA with such an emphasis on three-point shooting and spacing, couldn't you make an argument that he could be like Steph Light? All the big men have question marks. Yeah, he ain't defending like Steph Light, though. I agree. Yeah, Charks. I think the more interesting question is like, is it possible he becomes the best player from this draft?

Is that even in y'all's mind, like a possible outcome? Sure. Yeah. I think there's a shot. I don't think it'll happen. But I certainly think it's a possibility. I have him ranked ninth on my board. I would not say no to that

just because of his sheer shooting ability. I think if the E continues improving that, if he keeps getting better as a ball handler, there's a shot. But that would also require some of the other guys up top to not be as good as a lot of us expect them to be as well, Danny. Brandon Jennings dropped 55 points against the Warriors as rookie year.

Anything's possible. I really do believe that. Great answer. It's good for any question, really. From Matthew Thomas. What's the chance we look back on this draft and realize that Shea Gildes-Alexander, Kentucky point guard, was the best point guard. I think if that three-point shot comes around, there's a pretty decent chance.

I mean, he's definitely the best defensive point guard of the three. He's the most versatile player by far. He's a really smart player. I mean, I love the way he plays. It's just, is that three-point shot going to be consistent? It's a little wonky. He didn't shoot many in college. But I think there's definitely a Gradyans who a chance that happens.

I think I'm going to lean in on that. Yeah, like I'm really high on him now. And I think he might rise in my board, even though I think I have him highest among the three of us. Yeah, I just love the way he plays. He's becoming a favorite on my board. Final question from Cruz Buchanan. If he would give one lottery pick a boost at one specific skill to make them the unanimous number one pick, who would it be and what would the skill be?

What is it, Charks? I'm going to say, like, DeAndre Aiton, just like defensive IQ for Aten. If he had a defensive IQ, I think he'd be the best player in this draft. For me, it's Luca Dantritch. I already think he should be the conservative. consensus number one, but to make him the consensus number one, give him elite athleticism. I want him jumping out of the court, sailing is a roof for him. That's what I want for Luca Donchich. Yeah, give Donchich, Aiton's 45-inch vertical and give him basically all of Ronde

Hollis Jefferson's functional athleticism, and he's like a top 10 draft prospect of the ever. Yeah, absolutely. Here's a take. If he was an elite athlete, he'd be like LeBron, basically, right. Like if he was like a plus plus athlete and his size and his skill level. Yeah. If he had LeBron's athleticism. Oh my God. He'd be LeBron. He's like a less athletic. In our first draft class podcast, you did compare him to Larry Bird, didn't you charks? I said it was possible.

Possible. Possible. In the next five years, biomechanics could take off, we never know what could happen. He already has improved as an athlete after his summer at P3 last year and maybe he'll be back. I hope so. Love that place. We got a lot of questions from you guys. but we are sadly out of time. We're going to probably save some of these for topics to talk about

over the next couple of weeks. But for the time being, we're ready for grades. Isaac. Hello. First of all, all of you guys, I just want to congratulate you

on having no big pronunciation errors this week. Good job by you guys. Nice. There were a few small ones like Kevin O'Connor saying Drogich as Drogich, which I've corrected him numerous times on. Many times.

You refuse to change. Speaking of refuse to change, Kevin O'Connor. You are dying on the Joe Prunty Hill. That is a super interesting take that I've heard you repeat on numerous NBA shows. I don't know how to feel about it. So I'm going to give you like a middle of the pack grade, which is a B minus. I'm perfectly happy with that.

My only point with Joe Prunty is that you can't just replace the coach. The roster also needs to get better. Sure. Nuance goes right over my head. I'm a blog boy. Yeah, we're not here for nuance. Yeah. Charks, you're riding hard on my Michigan State guy.

as always, you know, I'm an easy target for homerism. I have to give you an A. Nice. That was the whole plan the whole time. And Danny Chow, welcome back to the podcast. You were lukewarm on Miles Bridges, and you acknowledge that in the moment. That doesn't give you any points. But a great Grantland

anecdote on Bruno Caboclo. He's the guy that they said, whoever was on the broadcast said two years away from two years away, right? Yeah, Fran Fashilla, my hero. Fran Fishechilla. I was going to give you a B, but now that I know it's Franfichilla, I'm going to give you an F for Franfichilla.

Solid. I'm into it. Nothing personal. It's just alliteration. Well, that was fun, guys. Jonathan, thank you so much for calling it from Dallas, dude. As always, good times. Danny, you deserve an A.

But thank you for joining. Absolutely. Isaac, I'm going to go watch NBA desktop just to hear you singing again. Thank you. Thank you. From here and beautiful Los Angeles, thank you so much for listening to the Ringer NBA show and for submitting all of your questions.

please rate The Ringer NBA show five stars on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. For extra credit, please check out the Ringer's 2018 NBA draft guide at NBADraft.com. We're going to be updating that pretty soon with 30 more profiles and team needs pages. Special shout out to my friend and the biggest NBA fan I know. Elon Musk, I know you're listening. I just want to let you know that I won't ask you questions about Tesla's earnings. I just want to talk basketball. So please join the show next week.

Thank you so much for listening again. Have fun. Peace out.