The Ringer NBA Show - The End of the Spurs, Underrated Raptors, Streaking Blazers, and Most Important Players | Heat Check (Ep. 226)

Episode Date: March 12, 2018

The Ringer’s John Gonzalez is joined by Shea Serrano and Kevin O’Connor to debate whether the Spurs dynasty is nearing its end (3:09). Then, Jonathan Tjarks and Danny Chau come on to discuss the dominant Toronto Raptors and the scorching-hot Portland Trail Blazers (23:01). Finally, Paolo Uggetti joins to highlight the most important players in the last month of the season (42:38). Articles mentioned in the show Kevin O’Connor on the Spurs’ concerns for the future 'NBA Desktop,' featuring Danny Chau’s take on tanking Paolo Uggetti and Haley O’Shaughnessy on the most important players of the final month Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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and up to a week in advance everywhere else. So if you want to start scoring amazing deals at incredible hotels, download the Hotel Tonight app now. Welcome to the Heat Check Podcast. I'm your host, John Gonzalez, joined per usual, holding it down in the other room. Isaac Lee is here. Hello.

Hello, Isaac. We have a lot of basketball to talk about, as we like to say here at the Heat Check podcast, basketball never stops. That includes apparently college basketball, which I have paid next to no attention to because of NBA basketball. Luckily, we've got you covered here at the The Ringer one shining podcast, absolutely killing it with Mark Titus and Tate Frazier.

After the selection show on Sunday, they put up an awesome pod. Also, Titus is on the site today on the ringer.com with a fun piece breaking down the brackets. So that's the primers that you're going to need to get your brackets together. You want to check those out. But also, we have plenty of NBA to discuss because, like we said, it continues. And we think we've got a fun program for you. All three members of the draft class podcast will be on. But two of them, Jonathan Charks and Danny Chow, will be on.

together to talk about the Raptors and the Blazers, two teams that we really don't discuss enough. So we're going to get into those guys because they had a really interesting weekend. They both had big wins. They're both killing it right now. They're both on big winning streaks. So we're going to get into those. And Danny Chow had the spiciest of spicy NBA desktop takes, Isaac. Did you see this?

Very spicy. I can't wait. We're going to replay that. And Danny will be on to discuss his take on tanking. And then later, last week, his first ever appearance on the show, this week, he's back again. He was that good. We had to bring him back. It's Palo Getti Palo Esco blog, so he'll be here to talk about a piece that he wrote with Haley O'Shaughnessy, the most important players to watch over the final stretch of the NBA. But first, Isaac, normally here at the ringer, we all get along. Normally. Not this time. We're bringing in two guys who are going on each other hot. Ring the bell. It's time to rumble, I think. All right. Joining me right now, one of them is on the phone. One of them is in studio with me. On the phone, the defender of the Alamo, the Spurs' favorite, fan, Greg Popovich's large adult son.

It's Shay Serrano. What's going on, Shay? What's up? Hello to you, but not hello to Kevin. But not hello to Kevin. Also joining us in studio right now, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Hader, Kevin O'Connor is here. Shea, just so you know before we get into this, because we're going to have a long discussion about the spurs between the two of you who are on opposite sides, Kevin has decided to preemptively attempt to curry favor with me by wearing a Fed's shirt with Fultz and B, Dario, and Simmons. So he's pandering.

Yes, and just so you know, before we get started, I hate Kevin. I'm going to end every answer I give for the rest of this podcast with I hate Kevin. It's going to be our best ever episode. So just so people understand, everybody here at the ringer gets along, and these two guys used to get along. But then Kevin came out with a very hot piece last week, and I'm going to read the headline here, which is a true headline. The headline was, no seriously this time, is this the end of the Spurs dynasty, question mark? and then the art, the photo, was Greg Popovich holding up and examining a skull, which I thought was aggressive. Normally, this is like a little bit of journalism, sausage-making 101.

Normally the writer doesn't pick the headline or do the art. Kevin actually did both of those. That's how much he hates the spurs. I know. I made that beautiful art piece. Yeah. Unbelievable. Actually, credit to Matt James for that.

Unbelievable. He hates the spurs, Shea. What say you? I say that I hate Kevin, and I hate everybody named Kevin. and anybody who's named rhymes with Kevin. Oh, that's also Devon and Evan. Yeah. Apologies to them.

Levin. Is there anybody named Levin? Our buddy, Mike Levin, from the Wrights to Ricky Sanchez podcast. You hate him now, too. Everybody's been dragged into this war. It's really gotten ugly. Kevin, I want you to explain this piece because it has not been, in fairness to you, and this will be the only time that I even throw you even a little bit of a bone.

Fairness to you, it has not been good days for the San Antonio Spurs. they're two and eight over their last 10, and they slip to seventh in the Western Conference. They might get Kauai back later this week, but you were looking at the tea leaves here, and you don't like the way that they read. Well, that's kind of my question for Shea here. Shea, are the Spurs facing more dire circumstances right now

than they have in this entire magical era the last 20 years? No, of course not, because I remember that you asked me this question last year and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, and the year before that, all the way to 2007,

people have been saying this same exact story. And it's... So here's my thing. Last week we did a piece for the ringer.com, more shameless plugs for the site, where we went through like, let's go and pick out the Western Conference teams and make a case for them,

the teams that aren't the Rockets and the Warriors. The teams are the best chance to beat Gold's Stey or Houston. And I picked the Spurs just because of basically summarizing exactly what Shea just said. Like, if you look at everything that's happening right now And you did lay out a very Kevin O'Connor case for why things have not going well for them. This is their worst season since 1996, 97, when they bought them out to get Duncan, where they are in the standings. They're playing at their second slowest pace in the league.

More mid-range shots than all but three other teams, according to cleaning glass. All these things sort of add up. But my case goes to what Shay was just saying, which was they're the Spurs. And for whatever reason, as an organization, they figure it out and they play well, and they're supposed to get Kau back on Thursday. And then all of a sudden I go, oh, yeah, like Pop knows what he's doing. Well, yeah, that's exactly true. And I think if any team can get out of this current situation with Kauai being reportedly unhappy with Kauai's weird situation with the injury, with the lack of elite young talent

on their roster, with all the upcoming free agents, all the up the aging players. If any team can get out of that, it's the San Antonio Spurs with Greg Popperich, R.C. Buford, and the top-down alignment that they have within the organization. It's remarkable what they've built. they can get out of it. The point of the article is that they're facing tougher circumstances than they have any time before. Yes, people have said this every year, but the question is, should they have said that? I know you can look back and say, oh, of course, it was silly to say that.

But maybe it actually was silly. But it doesn't mean it's always going to be silly to say because every dynasty in sports history at some point falls off. Maybe a little bit, sometimes a lot. We don't know what's going to happen with the spurs. But what we do know is right now they are facing weirder, tougher circumstances. stances than they ever have over the last 20 years. First of all, I can't believe that you would ever say anything like that about the Jonté Murray.

First of all, with no young talent. How dare you? No, no elite young talent. Yes, elite. He is elite. He's on the same career past Tony Parker was on. Remember when he showed up and everybody was like, this guy is not the move. And then in the 2007, finals, MVP, that's what happened with Jonte.

Of course, the spurs are not so great right now. It's almost as if they're without their best player is what it feels like. like, Kevin. I don't know if you've noticed, but Kauai has not been playing. It is almost like they're without their best player. I wanted to read something to D'Shea that appeared in the piece because I had mentioned earlier where Kevin went through why he's not crazy about the way that the spurs are actually playing on the court. They don't play at a quick pace, second slowest right now, more mid-ring shots, as we mentioned. This is a line that Kevin actually put in his piece. Making this roster play like the Rockets is the equivalent of having Ashton Coucher portray Steve Jobs.

I don't know. I think that that's it for him in San Antonio. He can never go to Texas. Yeah, never again. There's a bounty on his head when he gets here. That's not necessarily a shot at the Spurs, though. It's just saying that... You compare it to Ashton Couture.

If you give it context, within the context, it's Greg Popovich has taken the roster that he has and maximized it. The Spurs aren't a bad team. They're playing the style that they need to play based off their skill set. The point is that even if they want to be the rocket, and put up all layups and threes. They don't have the personnel to do that. So while we can, oh, the spurs are taking a bunch of mid-range jumpers,

you can knock them for that. What they're doing is maximizing what they have on the roster. If they want to play a different way, they need different players. If they need different players, then they need to make big changes. They don't want to play a different way, though. This is the way they want to play. This is what outsiders like you, Kevin, oh, bummer, don't understand. Is that Greg Popovich looks at the NBA,

and he says, okay, this is what they're doing. We're going to do this other thing, and nobody's going to know what to do with it. And that's exactly what's happening. We did the same thing in 2014 when we were like, hey, guess what, guys, from now on we're passing the ball 50 times every possession and then shooting a wide open three. And then now everybody in the NBA wants to do that.

We used to try to pretend like the Spurs didn't invent that. They did. They made the best version of that. So now we're going to do the same thing with the mid-range game and watch my number one player of all time of Lamarcus murder everyone. I'm going to tell you right now what's going to happen. This is exactly what's going to happen.

Rockets finish in first place. Spurs finish in eighth place. Mike Dantone does what Mike Dantone does in the playoffs against Greg Popovich, which is fall apart by game six. And we move on after that. It's going to be beautiful. Like nobody wants to see the Spurs less than the Houston Rockets in the playoffs. Nobody.

And that's what we're going to get matched up with. In the first round, we're going to get them out of there. I don't know who you're playing a second round, probably Oklahoma or somebody like that, who they're not built for the run. And we're going to end up back where we were last year, up 20 points in game one in the Western Conference Finals against the Golden State Warriors before Zaja did what he does. And it's going to be a rock fight.

And I can't believe you would ever doubt that. I am enjoying this forecast. In the future, I see Shea writing a piece where Greg Popovich is holding maybe Kevin O'Connor's skull in his hand where she is writing that. It's going to be, it's, I'm really looking forward to this. You brought up Lamarcus Aldridge, though, Shea. You've had an interesting journey with Lamarcus Aldridge. And like last year, you were not at all on board with him.

This year, obviously, he's had a much better season. He's playing very well. He's still dealing with, I believe it's an ankle injury, right? But so how do we, how do you feel about him? Like, yes, Kauai Leonard is coming back, but he's still going to have to be phased back in. We don't know how healthy he is. How do you feel about the prospect of Lamarcus having to really sort of carry them if they're going to realize your vision?

I feel 100% confident right now in Lamarcus's ability. I love this because this really has been a journey for you and him. Yeah, it has. Because when he first got there, I was anticipating we were getting Portland Lamarcus Aldridge, Portland playoffs Lamarcus Aldridge, when he was going nuts against the rocket. Yeah, you didn't get that one. And we didn't get that one.

We got it for a tiny bit. We got it for a tiny bit, and then it disappeared. And I was like, nope, I'm out of La Marcos. I thought that riding him hard would be like the way to go. I thought, you know, that's the way I was raised. That's how we raise our young Mexican children in San Antonio. We just berate them until they become great or they break down mentally. And he broke down.

So now I switched it this year. I'm all praised for Lamarcus. And he's been shining. And I have to assume that it's because I have been putting positive vibes into the universe. you broke him down and now you're building them back up. Kevin is showing me something frantically on his computer that I can't make out. Kevin, just use your words. We're on a podcast.

Explain to me what you're pointing out right now. I was just trying to say, we get to talk about their upcoming schedule. Okay. If they're even going to make it into the playoffs. That would have been great if you had just gone, hey, guns, we need to talk about their upcoming schedule. I would have been like, that makes sense. I don't know what you're pantomiming to me. And neither do the people listening at home.

We gave you a mic for a reason. It's just all of a sudden he's just, all of a sudden, he's, He comes on the podcast and goes full mute. Tell me what their schedule looks like, Kevin. Well, starting tonight, at Rockets, and then they face Orlando. That's an easy W. But then after that, Pelicans, T-Wolfs, Warriors, Wizards, Jazz, Bucks, Wizards, Thunders, Clippers, Lakers, Blazers, Kings, Pelicans.

It's like two games that are, quote, unquote, easy against Sacramento. It's a tough schedule. And then against Orlando. But other than that, that's really, really, really difficult. Kauai supposed to be coming back Thursday. Right. Pelicans. Yes. But the point is that they're only a half game up right now on the nine seed nuggets and 10 seed jazz and also tied to the clippers at eight.

I only heard you say the warrior's name one time and that whole sketchline. And to Shea's point here, look, this is a difficult schedule down the stretch. It is. However, as you mentioned, the team that they're jockeying with, the Clippers, I watched them over the weekend. I've been watching them all season. and Isaac Earmuffs, per usual. Oh, no. I don't know what they are,

and I don't know if they know what they are, and I know that they love this idea that, like, anybody can do anything on any given night. I'm not buying them. The nuggets are interesting, and the jazz are fine, I guess. For me, it's still the Spurs

just because of muscle memory. And as it should be. And because they could be getting Kauai back on Thursday. Right, which is a big boost. For sure. In theory. In theory, if he's healthy. If he's back,

because if he plays the same way he did the first nine games, he was back, well, maybe it won't be quite as much of a boost as you would hope. But if he gets into a rhythm by the end of his return, then that would be terrific. They're definitely going to make the playoffs. But the one concern is that this season, they've had one of the more significant drop-offs against teams over 500.

Like, they have just pumbled teams below 500, but against teams over 500, they have experienced a significant drop in their stats, which was something I outlined in the article. And like, only the Knicks, the Bulls, and the Clippers have seen a more significant drop-off based on the strategy of the money. Really pushing this anti-Spers article that you were real last week. I mean, like, really popping the hell out of it. The thing is, with the Spurs, man, like I said at the beginning, they're built to get out of this. They are built to get out of it.

It's as simple as that, really, with the ownership, with the front office, with the coach that they have, and with the players that they have, too. But the thing is, is that they're entering unique circumstances with green, gay, and a free agency, a lot of older guys that are getting expensive, like a soul and Aldridge. And there's a lot of uncertainty more so than usual with the players. So I want to talk about that exact point, because, It's not, like we're discussing this season and whether or not they make the playoffs and what they can do. And Shay is very confident that they're going to end up with the eight seat and then unseat the Rockets. And that would be a hell of a storyline.

But moving forward, Shea, much more than this year, that's for sure. I want to feel you out on what you expect out of them over the next couple of years. Because the one thing that did give me pause in Kevin's story, aside from the fact that there was Greg Popovich holding a skull, which I thought was a very aggressive art piece. We have Lamarcus Aldridge at 22 and change, 22 million. and change. Between him and Patty Mills and Pao Gassal, they've got almost $80 million in guaranteed salaries wrapped up for next year. When you look at their future and the money that they've already committed, what's your feeling on that? My feeling is, you've got Greg Popovich in charge of your ship is going to go in the right direction. And that's really all you need. You know, I hear on the other end

of this phone, is they hear a lot of half? You keep saying the Spurs are not going to make the playoffs, except the spurs are going to make the playoffs. Like, you've got to make a decision, buddy. Which one is it? You've got to pick a dog and stand by that dog. You can't have two dogs here. I had a conversation with Jason and Sepsione last week, and he was like, you get any spice for me for NBA desktop. And I was like, yeah, I get an article coming out on the spurs about how they could be in trouble and might not make the playoffs. And I jokingly said the spur should blow it up. He's like, yes, that's the spice. And I was like, well, the thing is, the article's actually about how, blah, blah, blah, this and that, everything we've been discussing. And so Jason also

told me I got to pick a stance. He's trying to curry favor with you is the big thing. And also I still no stance. He gave that whole answer to say he needed to give a stance and then just fell back. You're not tricking me, Kevin O'Connor. I don't see why the stance can't be. The spurs are facing tough circumstances and they are built

to get out of it. That's my stance. What kind of sports writer are you that you're using that you're using nuance? That's there's no room for nuance. That's not a stance at all. That's the opposite of a stance. You're laying down. That's what you're doing right now. You're not standing up.

feels very fair based on the assessment of the show. I suspect that he's also trying to walk it back because Kirk Goldsbury took us out when we were in Boston at the Sloan Analytics Conference, former Grantlander now working at the Spurs. Your buddy, apparently you have sleepovers and everything, but I think that he's a little worried about the heat that he might get on the other side. Doesn't make a difference. Yeah, he's terrified. Terrified. I've never heard anything quite like this where somebody wanted to both be controversial and not controversial at the same. You should be a movie critic, and every movie you should be like, this movie is, it's going to be good or it's going to be

not good, or it's going to be medium. That much you're doing right now. It might be average to slightly above or perhaps below. He put Ashton Coucher in the piece. It was really amazing. All right, we did a lot of spurs here. Before I let you guys go, I want to get into another team that's sort of reeling. I was at the Cavs' Lakers game last night.

Lakers didn't even have Brandon Ingram. Still won. Actually smacked the Cavs. Cavs got to the point. Caves have had a lot of injuries. But Cavs got to the point where in the fourth quarter, they just basically sat all of their guys and ran out some warm bodies and just decided to get the hell out of L.A.

What's your concern level? I know you're not concerned about the Spurs, Shea. If you were a Cavs fan, how concerned would you be? You should be 100% concerned there. That team has fallen all the way apart. All they're waiting for is to lose in the playoffs. The LeBronken skitter his flight to Los Angeles. That's it.

He should have just stayed here. It would make the trip a lot easier. Last night, I thought it was fascinating, Kevin. when as this whole blowout is happening, magic with the massive flex decides to walk across. I was watching this happening real time right in front of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I almost fell off my chair. Magic was basically like, screw it.

I'll just send the tampering check now. Walked all the way across the court was across from the Cavs bench and welcomed Maverick Carter and Rich Paul LeBron's agent and business manager and like had a very chummy like while the game was happening. hello. They were just talking about Contavius called old Pope. Could be anything. Just contavius called a cop. That sounds. I mean, like, I was watching that. I'm like, wow,

Magic is given the full chord hard press on this one. Oh. Anybody. Oh. Anybody else? I'm passing the ball, guys. That's my bad. I was waiting for Kevin to give a not answer answer.

Go ahead. I'm going to be, I'll be Kevin. Yeah, the calves are, they're in a lot of trouble, except they're the calves, so they're not in trouble because LeBron is getting old, so he's not good. But LeBron is LeBron, so he's still good. As Kevin reported, and only Kevin reported, LeBron has apparently narrowed it down to four teams.

Kevin, you made big news last week. No, that was the way it was picked up. But it's not what I reported. What I reported was that there's four teams on his list, but it's not they narrowed it down. It could grow. He reported that there's four teams on his list, but there's also 25 other teams on a list.

That's what Kevin reported. One thing we didn't talk about, Shay, what are you, sorry, I have to ask. Please, please. What are your just general thoughts? Not about the article, but general thoughts on the weird Kauai rumblings about him, you know, possibly wanting out or being unhappy with the situation. My thoughts are I've never liked Kauai and he should go unless he's happy and then he should stay and I love him. But it sounds like an answer like me.

He's doing more KOC stuff. We actually, he and I actually talked about this a couple podcasts ago where, Chey, you thought that it might have been a rap for KOLI. why pre-trade deadline. And now I feel like you're kind of like walking that back. You want him back. You want him to stay. I'm to stay if he doesn't want to be there. It's one of those situations, you know?

Yeah. It's like when you're in a relationship, if you want to be here, then I want you here. But if you don't, then just go and let my feelings be hurt for a little while so I can move on. I always want you guys to be here on the heat check podcast. However, I do need to let you go. You guys killed it.

I'm wishing the Spurs and Kirk Goldsbury and Chase Serrano the best, despite Kevin O'Connor trying to send them off into the cast off pile. We will not die. They will not die. Shea Serrano, I'm rooting for you. Kevin O'Connor. Also rooting for you because you decided to wear that fun Fed shirt to the podcast. Shea Serrano, Kevin O'Connor, thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. All right, boys. All right. Before we get to Charks and Chow, it's here from our sponsors. He Check is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Are you hiring posting your position to job sites and waiting and waiting for the right people to see it? Well, guess what? ZipRecruiter

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Right now, our listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, for free. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. One more time, ZipRecruiter. com slash Ringer MBA, ZipRecruiter. It's the smartest way to hire. All right now, one of them is on the phone.

The other one's sitting across from me with his handsome face. Two-thirds of the draft class podcast from Friday. Charks is on the phone. Chow is in studio. What's up, guys? Hey, man. How you doing? Excellent.

I'm so glad you guys could do this. It's so early. Danny is already shaking his head at me because I dragged him out of bed. It is early. It is really early. But that's why I appreciate you guys joining me. We have a lot to discuss. Sometimes when we do the heat check podcast, I'll get feedback from people on Twitter.

And they'll rightly get upset that we don't talk about some other teams. We spend a lot of time talking about the Warriors and the Rockets and the Cavs. And they're right. Because two teams that we've kind of not ignored but not given enough attention to, I wanted to get into with you guys, the Raptors and the Blazers had very interesting. frankly, they're on very interesting runs right now, but they also both had signature wins over the weekend. Let's start with the Raptors. The Raptors snap the Rockets' long winning streak, and now the Raptors are on one of their own. They're playing extremely well right now. They're tops in the

east. They've won eight in a row. They're nine out of the last 10 as well. Are we surprised by what the Raptors are doing this year? Because I mean, like, they've been good all year, and probably we shouldn't be surprised by now. But the way that they've sustained it all season and the way that they've figured their offense and really figured out the modern NBA in 2018. All credit to them, I think it's amazing. Well, I think with Toronto, just the depth they have makes you think in the regular season. Like, they just have 10 or 11 guys and they just absolutely demolish teams. You're into like early March now.

It's been a long year. And they're one of the few teams league that can just absolutely kill you for 48 minutes. So I guess I'm not too surprised in the regular season. They're kind of killing it right now. I think what's interesting with the team is that Dwayne Casey kind of identified exactly what the team needed very early on in the season. He made a switch to start O.G. Ananoi, their rookie. My guy.

Like, maybe six games into the season. And he is one of the league's leaders in net rating. The guy just knows how to defend, and he's known how to defend seemingly since he came out of the womb. So, like, we're looking at that, and it's time to maybe give Dwayne Casey, you know, the front runner position, the pole position for coach of the year.

I want to talk about Dwayne Casey, and I want to talk about his coach of the year candidacy because coming into this season, it was the same thing every year with Dwayne Casey. It was the same thing every year with the Raptors, where we went, all right, they're going to be good, they're not going to shoot enough threes, they're going to get into the postseason,

and they're going to fall apart, and then that's going to be it, and then rinse and repeat. At some point before this year, I don't know what happened, what the epiphany was for Dwayne Casey, if there was some sort of come-to-Jesus moment, it was Messiah or what,

but he has been different. They have been different. They've been fantastic. and that's why it's surprising for me. The epiphany was getting their asses beat by LeBron two years in a row. Well, right, but so that's happened, though, repeatedly, right? Right, exactly. I mean, after a while, you just kind of get sick of it,

and you get sick of Demard de Rosen not taking threes during the postseason, and you're just like, you know what, my star player needs to change. Also, too, like, the epiphany is getting better players. Like, their supporting cast is much better this show. They've got, what, four or five new guys in the rotation. So, like, people say it's the same old Raptors, but this is a very different team. And, like, they have the frontline guys the same.

Really, it's all these secondary guys when those frontline guys do different things. And that's kind of what's changed. I mean, Dwayne's a coach, a coach is good as his player. She's gotten better players this year. Charks, where are you on Dwayne Casey as coach of the year? I mean, I think that's a good one. Like, with Brad Stevens, kind of falling back a bit.

Yep. Also, shout to Rick Harlis. These are his two guys, Casey and Stats, killing the NBA right now. So, low-key, shout's my guy in Dallas, Ricky C. We're going to get into Stats in a little bit, But I think, like, that says everything you need to say.

Like, when you're looking at the coach of the year race and you go, all right, well, I mean, Dentoni had it last year. You could always make a case for Steve Kerr and the Warriors. And then that's basically it. You're probably looking at Nate McMillan with how the paces are looking right now. I can't believe I'm saying this. I think it's doing Casey's to lose. Is it not?

It is. I mean, yeah, I think he's the favorite right now. That's like the booby prize, right? Coach the Year. Those guys always get fired, I feel like, two years and then after the case. Yeah, unless you're pop. So. Yeah, I'm looking at the net rating right now in the league. Warriors are one, rockets are two, Raptors are three.

And Raptors are not far, that far off the Rockets pace for net rating. And they've been three for pretty much the entire year. They've been fantastic. So I want to talk about some of those players, too. And you mentioned Demar de Rosen and DeMory has really blossomed this year. He's always been, I think, one of the most underrated players in the NBA. But this year, to the extent that you could be an All-Star and be that under rated. I mean, like, I still think we sleep on Demar de Rose, and I know I do frequently. I don't know if

it was you who mentioned him as, like, a Dark Horse MVP candidate. He will get the consideration just because of where the Raptors are. I don't know if it's something that we can necessarily take very seriously. Like, I wouldn't put him in my top three. But he's, he's there in the top five. Well, so, okay, so now that's where I want to discuss this, because I still don't have him in my top five because my top five is pretty loaded this year. Top five is loaded. Top five is loaded. My top five right now would still be Hardin and LeBron,

and then Anthony Davis, who had, I think, all of the blocks yesterday for the entire season, and then your two guys from the Warriors. It's really hard for me to move one of those guys out for DeRosen. But that said, when he's having that kind of season for the team that's leading the East, how do you not wedge him in somehow? Right, exactly.

And it's largely, with the MVP award, it's largely narrative-driven. So if the Raptors, I made a point in my Raptors piece that I wrote for Friday, that if the Raptors end up with, you know, a 65 win season, I think DeMarg somehow slots, you know, in between one of the Warriors guys at the five position. Well, you know what it is?

Like, you win the MVP the year before in the playoffs. Like, if the Raptors make the finals this year, then DeMar could be an MVP guy next year. That's kind of how you make your name in the NBA. I think you're right about all of this, right? And I look at the way the East is shaping up. And Simmons made this point on Twitter where he went, man, like, the East is really weak.

the playoffs are going to be weird. I look at it a little bit differently and go, wow, the East is wide open for the first time in a while, especially because I mentioned this with Kevin and Shea earlier, I was at that Cavs, Lakers game, and yes, the Cavs are really banged up right now, and they're still trying to incorporate those new pieces. But this is as grim as it's been since probably 2010 when the last time LeBron left. So I look at it and go, this could be really interesting. What percentage chance do we give the Raptors of actually finishing this thing off and making

the finals. Man, I really, really enjoyed their game against the Rockets on Friday. It was fantastic. And I think they showed pretty much, it was one of those games where they needed to make a statement. It wasn't on national TV, unfortunately, but it had enough hype around it. It had, you know, the kind of quote unquote finals preview vibe to it. And they showed exactly what they needed to do. And they were defending incredibly well. They were defending the Rockets about as well as you can for a team that didn't have its best defensive player in Oji Annanobi there. DeMar de Rosen, Jonas Valentrudez

made huge defensive plays at the end, which is like not something you would ever say in any previous year. They looked legit. Here's what I'm going to say. Here's me being a hater, like, how fast does Jonas get benched? Like, that tells me to make the finals or not.

Yeah. Like, at some point he's got to get off the floor. How quick does it happen? Right. You look at what he did in Pick and Roll against the Rockets on Friday, and you're just like, this Jonas has never existed before.

So it could very well be a fluke. But, you know, in my heart of optimistic hearts, I really want to hope that, you know, Jonas can put in a good 15, 20 minutes and then... Plenty. Plenty. Right. 15, yeah.

So like the Zaza role, basically. Right. Yeah. And you need, you need, you know, Seacum and Pertil to step in and play, you know, more mobilized defense. But, like, yeah, if you can get 15 minutes. And Jonas is huge. He's going to get his buckets if you put him in the second unit, you know?

So, look, that's my thing. I have always been, and still am, but it's making me nervous. LeBron in the playoffs is LeBron and the playoffs. And like, no matter how good everybody else is playing during the regular season, it doesn't matter because it's a completely different game once we get to the postseason. For the first time, in a very long time, I am like pretty close to being pushed off that position by the Raptors and also because of what's happening with the Cavs. I think it's like, will Cleveland play any defense?

because LeBron's going to dominate, obviously. But they had to play some defense to give them a chance to win in the fourth quarter. And that's the question right now. If the calves end up as the fourth or fifth seed, I would be terrified if I'm the Raptors. Sure. I was just like freaking deja vu for the third straight year. It would be a nightmare. With the Raptors, just that we're even having this conversation really goes a long way

because finally you've got another team in the East where you go, okay, this is legit. This is a team that could actually unseat them. Similarly, I love what the Blazers are doing in the West. I have long been, as listeners to the Hecheck podcast, know, a big fan of all things, Portland. I love the basketball team. I love the city. Danny's making a trip up there. I'm very jealous.

Everybody in Portland should have a meet up with Danny Chow, take him to fun restaurants and bars. He's a great time. He'll deliver some spice in exchange for that. But so I didn't expect, like I like the Blazers, but in the same way that I didn't expect the Raptors to be this good. I didn't expect the Blazers to, all of a sudden we look up and they're in the third seat in the Western Conference,

primarily because this is the part that was surprising. Their defense has been outstanding this year. They've been killing it, man. They've had a top 10 defensive rating all season, and right now they're seventh in defensive rating. Like, the Terry Stott's is somehow, like, David Stottomier went from playing no defense to being like, okay,

like not so horrible, which is really impressive. and then Yusuf Nerkitch is playing, and you've got Aminu back, and like Evan Turner is out there being Evan Turner still over-dribbling on offense, but still giving an effort. I still don't understand how they're pulling it off defensively. I think it's a lot of the reason why they're the third seat, a lot of the reason why they've become this great defense is continuity. Like you look at the Western landscape and you see all of these teams

either dealing with major injuries or dealing with very significant roster changes. down the line. So you put in the Blazers core who have stuck together for a really long time. You give them a full season of Nurkich. And Nurkish has been, you know, a very good rim protector, rim deterrent just by virtue of being an enormous like land bridge. And yeah, you give them that, you give them a full season of that. And yeah, things are going to start clicking. I mean, Ad Davis too has been big. He's actually been like the best center from this year. I would say he's probably maybe the best big coming off the bench this season. He's been really good. Well, so that's the part I wanted to get into with you guys.

Like, I like their main three guys, right? And, yes, Ed Davis has been good. And you've gotten some stuff from Shabazz Napier as the season has gone on. And like I said, I'm always going to be a villain fan because he doesn't play for the Sixers anymore. So it's great. But I look at their bench and I go, I just look at their team in general and go, this is not a deep team. If you were going to be worried about them, it would be, you know, how much depth do they have for the postseason? And do they have some interchangeable parts?

It's not about their young guys again. It's kind of like Toronto with like Zach Collins. Because that guy ready to play. My guy, Zach Collins, doing really well this year as a 19-year-old rookie, 70-footer. Yeah, it's interesting. They kind of have that inside-outside presence from the front court. You have Zach Collins who, they're basically grooming into a guy who can, you know, block shots and take threes, which is the rarest thing you can do in the NBA.

Sure. Ed Davis is, you know, the prototypical workhorse down low. Pat Conerton is exactly what they kind of need him to be. He's just an athletic guy who can shoot threes and does. doesn't make too many mistakes. I think it's all kind of built around the idea that, look, if we can just keep it close, then we can depend on Damien Lillard to close it out. Well, so, and therein lies the Rob, because like all those guys you mentioned are all fine, right? But what you're really doing there if you're Terry Stats, you're just stealing minutes with them.

Like, you're throwing them out there. And, like, if you're looking at the other top-tier teams, I don't think that you would compare their depth to them. It's really about their frontline guys, their top-tier guys. And that's Damian Lillard. And I think Damian Lillard is doing something this season and lately that I think he got credit for in Portland and not outside of it. Like before the All-Star game, before he was named to the All-Star, everybody was like, oh, you know, where was he picked? He was probably one of the last guys to make the team. He gets a lot of heat. He's not seen as like an absolute superstar in the same context as some of the other All-Star guys.

And now I think he's showing everybody yet. You slept on me for the wrong reasons. I'm fantastic. Well, you get a team in the top four in the West as the best player. That's going to raise your kind of stature around the league. That was like the last step for them. It was kind of taking them to the next level. That was my big thing.

Look, they're a top three seed in the West right now. That gives you a lot of clout. And for, you know, the past nine years, the Blazers haven't had home court advantage. So when you are the underdog, you can't really expect people to treat you as though you are a top dog. Here's what I'm watching for. I think, like, in the playoffs, what's going to happen is

they're going to play on Dame and CJ. The two guys, to me, it's Aminue and Harkless. Can those guys knock down shots and make good plays in like three on two situations? Because the balls don't go on their hands. Can Hark Place even get like minutes though? He's been starting the last few weeks. I'm with you on Amino though, for sure. That's what I'm worried about is those two guys.

Yeah, that'll be a big deal. But to Danny's point about they haven't had home court, it's an advantage for them. Portland is a tough place to play. Motor Setter is a tough place to play. Like I really like that atmosphere. So to watch them again, like bring them. some other team into their building and like we're going to get four games at our place. Let's see how it goes. I think it's going to be fun. You know what I want to see? I want to see Lamarcus go to

Portland. That wouldn't that be incredible? That would be amazing. One more amazing thing before I let you guys go. So Danny Chow, who is a multimedia superstar here at the ringer. He's a writer. He's an editor. He's on this podcast. Wardrobe consultants. We're going to get into the wardrobe. He's on group chat. He's on draft class. He also made an absolutely amazing appearance with Jason Concepcion on NBA desktop. Isaac, let's roll it. And now the Rear's Danny Chow with some spice about losing on purpose. So here's my take.

I think tanking is the only good thing about the regular season. We have an entire separate section of the season, the playoffs, to determine who is good. Tanking, it covers the emotional arc of the regular season. You got hope at the beginning, and it

degrades and rots into this fertile soil to which hope Oops, springs again. Yo, somebody get me a fire extinguisher. My computer, first of all, not only was that take so spicy, but Charks, as you and I noted, in the video, which I highly encourage you to seek out because desktop is fantastic. Anyway, Danny Chow wearing a beautiful blazer and a button-up shirt. My computer burst into flames with this whole thing.

Okay. One, it's a beautiful shirt. I do not deny that. It's my favorite shirt. Two, it wasn't a blazer. It was a giant. Don't sell yourself short. No, okay, so it had a cotton shawl.

Young Danny's all grown up, man. It was almost like, it was like a very casual jacket sweater hybrid, but the fact that I was like laying in this chair, it was like, I don't know, the lighting wasn't the greatest, the quality of the video wasn't the greatest. So it kind of looked like a blazer. It had the lapels or whatever, but like. See, you pulled it off, that's the thing. You made people think it was a blazer.

He absolutely pulled it off. Kevin Clark, move over. We have a new sartorial top. dog at the ringer. But also, Charks, what do you think about the idea that tanking is the only truth? I mean, the only truth. It's a great take. It's a truth. I will say that much. Obviously, we can't say it's the only, but I'll go with them that far. It's something to watch, I suppose. Okay, so I'm going to continue on my grand unifying thesis of tanking. So, okay, so one of the best adages in sports is that styles make fights, right? True. So the truth is, in the modern NBA,

we kind of have this monoculture going on. Like every team is playing in this spread pick and roll where you're trying to get all your players in space and shooting threes. So the best way to win is every team is doing that and the good teams are doing it somewhat better than every other team. So there's only a couple ways to win.

There are so many different ways to lose. Look, who are you talking to here? I wrote multiple pieces for the ringer.com in favor of tanking, one of which pissed off Darrell Mori. I love tanking. I'm one of the main advocates. and watch the Sixers go through it over however many years.

I love that you've come around on this. No, they've really staked out a position. It's not coming around. I think you were a true believer, right? Yeah. You were always on the 10th. This was something that I started back at Grantland, back when I was an intern there,

mainly because we had so many good NBA writers back there that I couldn't really find a way to get my byline on the site. So I was just like, I'm going to watch all of these trash-ass teams because no one else is going to watch them. So that's where I kind of got. that, you know, and it never left. The passion never left. And now look at him, Charks. Now he's, now he's got the passion and the clothes. He's unstoppable. And the platform. And the platform. You guys have a great platform on Fridays. You do draft class. Make sure you listen to Charks

and Chow. And also Kevin O'Connor. Gentlemen, this was excellent. We'll get into more tanking stuff in the future. Thanks. Absolutely. Thanks having us on. All right, before we go to Paluggetti, Paloesco blog, one more word from our sponsors. March is here, which means one thing. it's bracket time. Yahoo Sports Tourney Pickham is the best place to fill out your bracket all through the Yahoo Fantasy app. Joining a public group is easy or create a group and play with your friends. Or guess why? You can join Draymond Green's group and have a shot for $25,000. Don't know your college hoops. Choose one of the auto fill brackets. Pick coaches with the highest winning percentage, pick party schools, whatever. We're totally rebel and pick least popular picks. Why not?

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All right, joining me in studio, one of our favorites here at the heat check podcast. He went from never appearing on the show to coming in back-to-back week. It's Paulo Geddy. It's the sequel. What's up, Gons? The listeners demanded it. We got a lot of feedback and they were like, you put him back on the show. So here you are. But I also wanted to get into a piece that you wrote with your partner in crime, Haley O'Shaughnessy, who could not be here because she's out of town. She is, yes. Tried to have both of you.

But you were a co-author on a byline. The most important players over the final month, they encourage everybody to go and find that at the ringer.com. It's a really interesting piece. You came up with, is it 18 players? So it's basically a player for each team still in the hunt for the playoff or in the playoff, essentially what we try to do. Okay.

Then again, I think going back as I was looking at this the other day, I realized we missed a team. Yeah, I think we missed a, shoot, I'm Blank. blanking on it right now, but we definitely miss somebody. Let me help you out here. I'm pointing at myself. I know exactly who we missed. And I thought about this last night. We missed the Sixers.

The Sixers. You did this list. And I was like, this is a really fun list. I'm going through the list of all these different players. And I'm like, where the hell of the Sixers? No Simmons or No Unbeed. So immediately this list is... I'm just going to say that it was on purpose.

Okay. Yeah. That was for both me and Chris Ryan. I think all the Philadelphians are getting a little hell of themselves here. But let's start with... We'll go through a... bunch of these names here. We're not going to get into everybody. But on the most important players over the final month of the season, the one guy who really stood out to me was Anthony Davis,

who crushed it last night. He had 10 blocks, 25 points, 11 rebounds, 10 blocks. It was his first ever triple double. How is that possible? I don't know. I think it's because he sometimes doesn't, I think it's the assist that maybe like he doesn't have that as many because he just has to score so much. And I think that's part of why I picked them because it's like, okay, you can get kind of Q and pick like Drew Holiday if he wanted to for the most important player. But at the end of the day, if he doesn't score like at least 30 or more, it's what you saw last night. They lost it.

Right. And he's still had an amazing game. But I think it just kind of speaks to when they play teams that are a lot more like system oriented. And he's just kind of fighting back against the entire like other team. He has to score like 30 or more for them to even be in it, which is I think proved that he's probably like the most support player. He's been absolutely fantastic, especially since Bogie went. down and he's really helped buoy the Pelicans.

They're right now fourth in the Western Conference, two games back of the Portland Trailblazers who are in the second spot and they're tied with the Timberwolves and also the Oklahoma City Thunder. I'm with you that he has to do so much to make them good because the rest of that team and Drew Holiday is there and good.

And then you look at it and you're like, oh man, they could really use Boogie. It's such shame. But Anthony Davis, I could not believe, oh, by the way, not only did he get a triple double, it was his birthday. Oh, yeah, I saw that, yeah. This was a useless stat that he was.

ESPN stats and information sent out. So shouts to them. They actually sent this out. I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. He is the first player to record a triple double with blocks on a birthday since blocks became official, an official stat in 73, 74. ESPN stats and info. I love what am I doing with that?

I do know. We're probably doing some of the same stuff where it's like we take like, okay, such an arbitrary number on a specific day and he was wearing like the blue color uniform. Right. On a birthday when the moon was full and like all the tides. Okay, all right, fine. Where are you, I got into this a little bit with Charks and Chow in the last segment about our top five MVP candidates. Anthony Davis, if you would ask me, pre-all-Star break, probably wouldn't have cracked my top five.

Now I have him third. Yeah, I think I would put him even second. You'd have him second. You'd have him ahead of LeBron. Yeah, I would have him ahead of LeBron, especially because the cabs are reeling a little bit right now. And it's like, again, it goes back to why he was kind of the main, the first guy on that list and the guy for the Pelicans. he's just so important to them without, I don't even want to imagine

the nightmares of what the pelicans would be without him. So that's why I think he's number two for me. Imagine Micah Peters in the fetal position. Exactly. That is what the pelicans would be without Anthony Davis. For a while, the narrative around Anthony Davis was, he can't stay healthy, he's super talented, but can he actually make this dog shit team

that they have assembled around him any better? And the answer was previously no. He couldn't. He wasn't capable of it. It just didn't work. Right. This year, it's not like, you know, like clearly with Boogie, that was a different dynamic. Yeah.

But extract Boogie and it's not hugely different than what he's had in previous seasons. And yet, the Anthony Davis that we're getting right now is an absolute world beater. And then the fourth seed, like, that's insane to think about where, you know, before the season, you would have asked me, where are the Pelicans going to end up? I would probably have said either like ninth or maybe squeezing in there for the eight seed, right? In no part of my mind that I think there would be like a top four seat. And one of the many group posts that we did for Theringer.com, I think I had them falling out of the playoffs, like somewhere in the season. Like second half of the season production or something like. I'm like, I don't know. I never buy it, whatever. But right now, and this is the crazy part, Isaac Lee just points this out, they have the same record as the Cavaliers. There you go. I mean, obviously the Cavs have LeBron. So that puts them ahead of the game. But do you give them the same chance to win around? I mean, like, where are you on like the Pelicans' chances in the playoffs versus the Cavs? The Cavs are really. They're not healthy. They're not playing well. They're still trying to incorporate. their guys. I spent the whole weekend with them

and Tyloo was going on and on about how everything they have right now is dumbed down and simplified because they don't have enough warm bodies who know what the hell they're doing. It's dangerous time for both the cats. It's a more dangerous time for the as it is for the pelicans because the pelicans are playing with house money. It's hard to kind of put all your chips in on LeBron

even though AD has had such a ridiculous season and I have them above LeBron in the MVP voting. Just step too far from me to continue. Listen, this is a heat check right now since I'm a product of voter fatigue maybe I also don't have votes I don't doesn't really matter but I'm just saying I think man like that's hard because it's like LeBron in the playoffs you wonder if there's still another

level he has and something I was wondering last night as I was watching them with the Lakers is because he looked like he was putting in the effort so I'm wondering if if he's putting in the effort and they're still losing to teams like the Lakers does he have another kind of like gear in him and and is will that come in the playoffs I mean you'd expect it because we've seen it for the last I don't know seven or eight years so I don't know I think I would still leave as a team, but right now AD as a player. Yeah, I'm still Cavs and LeBron greater than Symbol, Pelicans,

and NAD, just because of the history there. But I like that you pointed out that you don't have MVP votes. We need to get you MVP votes. I think that's happening next. First you're on each, then you get MVP votes. Some other guys that are on this list. There's some obvious ones. James Hardness on here for obvious reasons. You've got Janus on here.

Some less obvious ones that I thought were fun. Andre Aguadala. Yeah. So kind of doing revisionist's history on that one. So I had Andre in there because I thought that he had a really lackluster first half of the season, but since the all-star break, like I said, in there, he's kind of shooting better again. He's looking, like, he has like a freshness about him, you know? So I think that that was important to, that's important to the worries going forward, especially when they're going to face, like, the rockets in the playoffs.

I think having a player like him at a more engaged level, if you will, was going to be really good, like a glue guy type of thing. But as we've seen kind of over the past week or so, like, the Warriors are just an entirely different team without Steph. So if I were to go back and do this again, I would probably have a hard time not putting stuff in there just because, I mean, I think I saw somewhere where they're 11 and 6 without him, but they've only lost one game with him.

So it's just like the disparity between what they are with Steph and without him is too large to ignore. Yeah, and then I think that's fair. I would also point out that upon singling out Andre Aguadala and mentioning that he's one of the most important players down the stretch, the Warriors promptly lost two games in a row, so the ringer curse is still real.

Other guys that you have on those sides to go back to the calves, you have Larry Nance who, I think Larry Nance with the calves, considering what the calves are right now and how they're trying to keep their head above water, has been excellent for them. I agree, yeah. I mean, I think there's two sides to this

because on one side you can say, wow, like Larry Nance is really helping LeBron. Like, you can see LeBron appreciating how athletic Larry Nance is on every play, on every dug. He's just like, he's like, wow, that's the type of guy I need to play with. It seems like that's what he's realizing.

But at the same time that he's the best player they got at the trade deadline, at least as far as performance goes right now, that's kind of worrisome. Yeah, that's a really good point because George Hill has been hit or miss, depends on the day, which is pretty much how his season is gone. He hasn't been the George Hill that we know and love, certainly that Danny Chow knows and loves, of course. Danny Chow has said on this podcast and in print two different places that he's his favorite

player. The George Hill is his favorite. I'm like, you've got to get out more. It's not, yeah. You need to sell that stock. As somebody who loves the NBA, Danny, there could be a lot of other choices. But then Rodney Hood has been not surprisingly consistently inconsistent in that he's always injured. Which is a bummer.

Like I like Rodney Hood in Utah, and I thought he was going to be the best player from that trade. And I think Danny even said that. He thought that Ronnie Hood was going to be that. But, you know, Larry Nance, I guess. That's kind of where you're hanging your hopes on. And then Jordan Clarkson has been Jordan Clarkson. He does Jordan Clarkson things. He's never seen a shot.

He doesn't like. He says crazy stuff in press conferences. Yeah, he's got a celebration. But Larry Nance has been a really interesting piece for them. I hear what you're saying about if he's the best player you got at the trade deadline. Uh-oh. However, I think he was underrated player before landing with the calves. And now you're seeing kind of what he can do the other night.

He made a backdoor cut where LeBron sort of passed him open into a dunk. And he talked about it afterwards. I practiced the following day where he was like, yeah, like, that's the kind of thing that playing with the best player in the world. Right. This is what happens. But there are limitations to Larry Nance. Like right now, they're kind of experimenting with him at the five. and it's not like the Lakers didn't try that.

The Lakers did some of that. And guess what? The Lakers were like, not really five. I think he's a direct, like, manifestation of how much players are benefited by playing with LeBron.

And it's, like, night and day. Because I think with the Lakers, he was, like, fringe player. Like,

people were arguing that, you know, Kuzma should start over him because I think he was playing at the four. And it's just like, with LeBron, he's an entirely different player.

Is he a game changer? I think I said it in the post. Like, he's not going to win you a playoff game or two, he's probably just going to help LeBron when you playoff game or two. I would like to see how they deploy him when Kevin Love comes back.

Because now all of a sudden, okay, now it gets a little bit more interesting, and then you've got Tristan Thompson and like where the minutes go, and I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward, frankly, to the calves being healthier than they are now, which is not very healthy at all. Some other guys that you had on this list here, Miles Turner, Ogen Anobie,

Marcus Smart. The one that stuck out for me, Yusuf Nurchach, the Blazers, I just keep coming back to the Blazers. We had some Blazers talk earlier in the program. Defense has been really good. Yeah, that's a shock. And I don't know if that's NERCITS directly, but I just, the reason I included him in here is because I was looking at, you know, the numbers.

And it's really funny to me how in November, he was kind of more high usage and he was pumping out production. Then as the season went along, his usage has gone down. I think he's like 21 minutes per game in the last month or so. And his numbers have gone down in terms of total production, but his efficiency is a little better. So I just wonder what his role is on that team moving forward and how he's going to help him both this season and the future because I know that they are big on Zach Collins, who has been playing really well lately. And who isn't big on Zach Collins these days, right? I mean, if you had

sharks on here, I don't know if you asked him about it, but he loves Zach Collins. I mean, those two guys, not surprisingly geeked out on him. And like the people that I've talked to in Portland love him because he's a young guy who they're developing, who can shoot threes and block shots. And there are like precisely four of those guys in the NBA, which is fantastic. I say, like, let's pump the brakes just a second on Zach Collins. Like, I haven't, I think... He still looks like he should be playing right now in March.

Like, March Madness. Yeah, yeah, I mean, like, I'm hopeful for Zach Collins. I certainly like him. But Nirkich, I have always loved NERC. He's crazy and says fun stuff. And, you know, when he got traded to Portland last year, he really had this renaissance. I'm very interested to see what NERC

looks like with the third-seated Blazers in the playoffs. Like, what kind of NERC are you getting? If he's engaged, I mean, he's going to be, I think the point about him is just, if they are going to diminish his role a little bit for the sake of efficiency, for the sake of giving Collins, I mean, I don't know if that's going to continue in the playoffs, but if they do, he has to have that kind of buy-in mentality, which is, like, again, back to the attitudes you're saying where you're intrigued to see him in the playoffs. And so am I.

I mean, the Blazers are just an intriguing team in general because much like the Pelicans, we didn't really expect them to be where they're at. Dame and CJ have kind of just proved that they're worth of that spot right now. Another guy that I want to see in the playoffs, I want to see what kind of guy we're going to get. If they make the playoffs, Kevin O'Connor has a piece on the ringer.com right now,

wondering aloud whether or not Minnesota can make the playoffs without Jimmy Butler. But one of the guys that is trying to help them do that and has got a lot of minutes as a result. His usage rate is ticked up with Jimmy Butler out is Andrew Wiggins, who had a really good game against the Warriors. Haley tweeted about this and was like, you know, she's on this beat.

I don't know. She is. This is a self-ascribed beat where she's like, you know, I'm going to see if Andrew Wiggins has a good game or not. Like, essentially, it's just simple as that. She put it at an apologies to Haley if I get this wrong, but something like one in five or one and six for a good Andrew Wiggins games. Because look, Andrew Wiggins with Jimmy Butler and also in previous seasons was sort of the king of hollow stats, right? Like he put up a bunch of points and then you'd look at the rest of his line and go, what else did he do? And Simmons has been on the, he doesn't play that good defense anyway.

So are we sure about that contract and how's that going to look in retrospect? I think lately, since Jimmy Butler went down, Andrew Wiggins is much better. I agree. I wonder if that's just the fact that there's more ball to go around without Jimmy and whether when he comes back. Because I still think Jimmy is the most important player for the wolves. Yeah, not Andrew. So I'm just wondering how that's going to fit going forward where Towns is going to fit in all this

because, I mean, he had a monster game last night. but you just wish you saw that more often than not. And I think that's the problem. Just how the three mesh together because they're so, you know, Towns is not as ball dominant as the other two, but Wiggins sometimes seems to go into the shadows if Jimmy's just having a great game. And what that boats do is just, you know, struggling situations where if Jimmy struggles or he's tired, which we know that the wolves are going to be tired,

then he kind of doesn't fully step up when he needs to. So I'm just concerned about how they fit together. But I mean, this is good for Wiggins' coffee. confidence at least. I am not concerned anymore because of the reverse ringer curse. I'd like to congratulate the Minnesota Timberwolves, who undoubtedly now that Kevin O'Connor, Kevin O'Connor he wrote this piece wondering if they're going to make the playoffs. Not only will they make the playoffs, I think they'll probably win the NBA championship now as a result. Write him in. Yeah, just put it down, give him the trophy now. So congrats on that Minnesota. Some other guys that were

on your list here, you have Yokic. Yeah. So Haley, not to mention Haley again, but she did write about him in a very, I thought it was a really good piece where she just explained why. the system that Mike Malone was reverting to, which was more kind of half-court offense and slow it down a little bit more, wasn't really fitting to Yokoja's talent. And I think that as we saw, I think he had a better game last night. And I don't know if you saw that video, which was hilarious where he's like telling, it's like basically that, like, he did this like weird face. And it's like, that's how he lets Gary Harris know when he's going to throw that touchdown pass. So, you know, when there's stuff like that, you're like, wow, this guy is like so fun. And like, I want to see him in that more kind of free-flowing style.

So, I mean, if, I've just been worried about the nuggets in general with the milsap. I am here for all things weird Yokic. Yes. His long pass face, super weird like that. Also last year, as they were in the same position, last year was them and Portland jockeying for that final playoff spot. And he was wandering around the arena pregame handing out loose candy. And I'm like, all right, cool, man. This is great.

I want some loose candy. Right now they are tied with Isaac Lee's clippers. Isaac, I hadn't jump in on on this. Last playoff spot goes to The Clippers I agree Really? Yeah

This is why Palo is my favorite co-worker I've been on this train For a while now And not this is not There's not many people on that train It's you and Isaac And I think I don't even know

If Doc's on that train I think he is The thing that I believe With the Clippers Is that they're very self-aware Which I know is hard to quantify But I think they just know That you know they're not

Like a star-driven team per se So they're just kind of rely on Whoever is on One thousand percent I was at the Clippers Caves game, talking to some people in the Clippers organization, and it was the same conversation over and over again. Where I was like, I don't know, what is this? And they're like, that's exactly what it is. And I'm like, oh, this is very meta.

Good luck to you. I believe in that, though. I'm in it. Can I give a really hot take real quick? Please. I think the Clippers is going to be the seventh seed. Wow. I think San Antonio is going to fall out.

I think Denver is going to take to eight. I will say that not to prolong us even more, but I do think. a lot of Clippers talk. I do think that predicting one of the spurs, Thunder or Wolves, I guess the wolves kind of, you know, they've had a nice little stretch here. But I think one of those three teams was in real danger falling out. And I still think the spurs are in danger falling out. I mean, we know Kauai obviously returns this week.

But I'm just going to say, keep an eye on. I am going to caution you. I had Shea on the program with KOC earlier. And Shea basically has disowned all things KOC. And you don't want to be in that group. You don't want to be in that group. and predict that the spurs fall out. I think you'll revise that later. Last one for you, just because you mentioned the Thunder as a team that might fall out, you had here,

whoever plays shooting guard for the Thunder, which I thought was hilarious, but also true. So at first, I just, I had Josh Westis. How do you, it's Westis? Is that who you pronounce his name? Houston? Yeah, Houston, I think. Sorry. But I don't know. Yeah. So I first I had him specifically in there, but then going back and forth with Justin, our editor. Shouts to Barrier. Yeah, Shots to Barrier. He was like, I think we, it's more just whoever they started. shooting guard because that day while I was writing that, they started Corey Brewer. So I just think of whoever is in that spot, I think Crestes had a really good game,

if I remember correctly, this weekend. So they need something, literally anything from that position will be of help. Because without Andre Roberson, they're an entirely different team. Oh, God. My point, yeah, I know. How bad is that situation when you're like, man, Roberson really help out? No, but he's so good defensively. He's good defensively, but he's useless offensively.

That's what I wrote about in the thing, which is just if they're not able to replicate or at least replicate half of his defensive impact, they need to provide some sort of offensive game or something. How is it possible that after getting Paul George and Carmelo Anthony, which was a mistake, that we still go with the thunder, man, they still need stuff. Like, and this has been the story forever in a day, certainly since KD left. Even when KD was there, it was always like they still need stuff and it's crazy. I highly recommend reading the piece that Paolo and Haley put together the most important players over the final month of the season. Really fun. A lot of other guys that we didn't get into that you should read if you like the NBA. We've got all kinds of ringer content, NBA content on the ringer.com that you should check out this week. And we've got, of course, on the Ringer podcast network, lots and lots of basketball tomorrow. You'll get Kevin O'Connor and Verno.

This is a source of say week, Juliet Littman and Chris Ryan on Wednesday. group chat with Palo and Haley and Justin and Chris on Thursdays and then of course draft class with the guys that we had on the program. That's on Friday. I want to say thanks to everybody who was on the show, Shea and KOC, Charks and Chow and of course Palo and my fantastic producer, Isaac Lee, who still is riding with the Clippers for reasons to passing understanding. Thanks so much everybody for listening. We'll see you next week. Bye. Thanks for doing this, Holmes. Yeah, no sweat. Kevin is sitting across from me. I'll introduce you guys and then you

guys can just knife each other over the spurs for 20 minutes and then we'll be done. Oh, that sounds like fun. Yeah, it's going to be great. Hey, sir. Shut up. It's perfect. It's perfect.