The Ringer NBA Show - The Five Most Interesting Teams of the Stretch! Plus, Analyzing the Buyout Market and Playoff Projections | Heat Check

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

Instant Replay: Dwyane Wade's jersey is retired, Mark Cuban has a very expensive meltdown, and we analyze the buyout market (03:08) The Main Event: The gang takes a look at Dan's ranking of the NBA’s five most interesting teams of the stretch run, including the Rockets, Pelicans, and podcast favorite Grizzlies (21:31). Good Call/Bad Call: Zion debuting some new shoes, spending time at a Milwaukee casino, and deciding to go in on a $100 mystery box (40:39). Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Haley O'Shaughnessy, Dan Devine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer Podcast Network. We've updated our 2020 NFL draft guide this week, where you can find all things draft related leading up to the first round on April 23rd, including scouting reports on each prospect by Danny Kelly and much more. Also, don't forget to check out the Ringer NFL show and the Danesie Football podcast live from the Combine next week for an inside look at this year's top draft picks.

The heat check. You knew that was coming. It's heat check time. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host John Gonzalez. joined as I am every week by my producer, Steve Alman. Steve basketball is back in full swing following the All-Star hiatus. A lot of things happening in the NBA that we're going to get to in just a second.

You, however, I have to ask you about this. I'm on Twitter over the weekend and I see that you tweet out that Saturdays are for your weird stuff. Yes. So clearly not taking in a full slate of NBA schedule for you. What is the weird stuff that you do on Saturdays? I'm fascinated by this. I make mash-up songs. I was mixing 80s,

tunes and Jay-Z. It's just sometimes when you have a song in your head and a song in your heart and a beat going through it, you know, those two need to need to collide. So follow me on Twitter if you need to follow that weirdness. Let your freak flag fly. I want you to put some of those songs on He Check in the Future, please. In the interim, thanks everybody for listening and checking out Steve's weird stuff. A reminder to please rate and review us.

Don't forget about all the great NBA content on the rigger.com. Palo with a double dip. He wrote about, here's an open-ended question. Can Tom Tibido fix the next? Now, I want you to go out and read Palo's story. My answer to Palo's open-ended question is L-O-L-O-L-O-L-O-L-L. Palo also wrote about Kyrie is hurt again, and the next season just got even weirder.

And Haley, of course, the incomparable Haley O'Shaughnessy, wrote the most miserable and hilarious coaching, flameouts, and NBA history. Feels like an attack at John Beelon. I don't know. Go and read it. Coming up later in the show, we'll run through Dan Devines,

five most interesting teams of the stretch run in our main event. Steve, I got a lot of problems with this story. Don't tell Dan. I'm going to go after Dan. Scott's honor, won't tell him. It's time for me and Dan to have it out. So that'll happen a little bit later.

But first, let's review the latest news from around the league and bring in our regular contributors, our friends, our family, Dan and Haley. Boom, Chakalaka. He's heating up. He's on fire. All right, one of them is in studio with me and very excited about that. The other one last week, normally he's in our NYCCHQ. last week he was stuck between two twin beds in Westchester, New York. Dan, where are you today?

I am in my living room in scenic, flatbush, Brooklyn, Gons. No office today, no fancy studio, just me, and hopefully a quiet dog on the couch. I was going to say, is Lugar going to join us for the program? We're going to really hope not. We're going to cross our fingers and see. Let's not get crazy. I kind of want them to jump in here. In the interim, let's review some headlines from around the league and go to NBA instant

replay. So, Dwayne Wade, his retirement paloza happened this weekend. day retirement ceremony and bacchanalia. I think everything in Miami is basically a bacchanalia is decreed by Miami law. He had his number three jersey raised to the rafters. He talked about Kobe and what he meant to him, talked about his legacy. He's an obvious hall of famer. Haley O'Shaughnessy, let's go to you first. Dwayne Wade's legacy. What say you about Dwayne Wade and his legacy? I think that he has to be remembered because we remember like one or two things from all of them. Like if you ask somebody about Bill Russell, they'd tell you one to two.

things, you know, just from a different era. His are going to be winning in athleticism. Yeah, I think about him being paired with Shaq and like his flash days. I also really fondly remember Fad Dwayne Wade who went to Cleveland and got super out of shape

and then like he came back to Miami and they had to slim him down immediately. Like they put him on the vegetable and fish diet and water only. Pudgy Dwayne Wade for the five and a half seconds that he was in Cleveland was a great Dwayne Wade. That one deserves to have his jersey retired. Dan. You know who's not going to call Duane Wade Pudgy is Dan Devine? Dan Devine doesn't really have a

whole lot of room to talk on that one. I will say, yeah, it's weird. One of the things that I flash on with Wade, forgive the pun, is him in the 08 Olympics when it was like he had been kind of injured and wasn't really part of the conversation as much in that after shack period. And then all of a sudden he looks like robotic. He was like a bionic man coming out like shot out of a cannon, maybe arguably over the course of that tournament better than Kobe, but like Kobe was the hero in the gold medal game. Yeah, Wade, we're going to remember Wade

is one of the handful of greatest shooting guards of all time, you know, a three-time champion and somebody who sort of bridged eras in competitive sort of stardom in the league and, you know, a guy who obviously got to go out on his own terms with the Bacchanalia and whatnot, but who really deserves that kind of celebration for what he meant to Miami.

Yeah, what a party, a three-day deal. Other things that we remember him fashion icon. I mean, like the NBA, everybody's, no, I'm being serious. Like, everybody's fits are a big deal. Russ is obviously top of that list, but I would say Dwayne Wade as well, had a stylist for a long time. I wanted to run this guy past you. It's not time just yet for a good call, bad call. We're going to have, like, a preemptive GCBC here. He wore to his retirement ceremony, and Colleen tells me that this is a thing again, and it makes me kind of sad because I was, I'm old enough to remember when this was originally a thing, and then it phased out for a long time. apparently is back again. He wore one single dangly earring. This is a thing again? It's a thing again. All right. It's a thing again. So good

call, bad call quickly around the horn on the single dangly Michael Jordan, George Michael earring being a thing again. It's good. He needs to stop overdoing it by matching it with polos. Dan, where I could see... Sorry, turtle necks. I could see you rocking a single dangly earring. I mean, it's coming back around again. Yeah, a good call, but if you really want to go all into it, you got to get the feather like Rufio from Hook. Oh, that's a great call. I think. I think. I forgot about Rufio.

Steve Almond. Yes, and feathered, like, with the hair as well. Like, just making Rufio, an entire Rufio fit. Yeah, it's a Mr. T look, too, so I'm on board with it. It's a good call. Let's go to Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban, this might surprise you guys. Complete an utter meltdown over the weekend and a Mavs lost to the Hawks.

There was a goaltending call late in the game that was overturned, allowing John Collins to put back a basket that essentially sealed the game with 8.4 seconds to go. and Cuban handled it with his usual Cuban aplomb and sent off a fiery tweet storm. I'm going to read a bunch of these for you. So they call a goaltem. They literally blew the whistle that it was a goaltend. There was a put back after the whistle. After they reviewed it, they said no goal 10, but count the basket.

WTF is that. That's NBA officiating. He goes on to say that one of the refs told us it was an inadvertent whistle. And then here's the money quote. Riffs have bad games. Crews have bad games, but this isn't a single game issue. This is the same ass and then he has four dashes here. I'm going to go ahead and fill in the blanks say this is the same shit that has been going on for 20 years.

Higher former refs who think they know how to hire, train, and manage, realize two years later they can't repeat. Now, Mark Cuban has been fined more than $2 million over the years for criticizing officials. He's going to get fined here again, but the league is awaiting the Mavs game protest on this ruling before leveling the fine against him. But Dan, does Mark Cuban have a point here? Does something need to change with the way that referees are both hired and trained and then the way that we review these things? I mean, if the point is you don't need to have been an NBA referee for 30 years to effectively manage an NBA referee, then I think, yeah, sure, that's fine. They've done that. They hired Byron Spruill, who I believe came from, like, Deloitte or, you know, some consulting firm to be part of that. They hired somebody from the Air, I think the Air Force Academy to do that.

Like, they've brought in outside people. The issue is, like, where are you getting? this big talent pool of incoming refs that's going to come from. Who the fuck wants to be a ref right now? Like, you are, like, every, you know, from Little League on up, like, you are constantly getting berated and shit upon for everything you do. Anytime somebody notices you, like, you're going to get a brick through the window. Like, why would you want that gig unless it started paying you a million bucks?

I don't see where the solution for that comes from because the vitriol is, like, at such a high level. I don't blame Mark Cuban for being this sort of exercised about it, but I don't know what the, what the sort of counter solution is. Yeah, we only really really. notice referees when they do something wrong, Haley. There were a lot of whistles at the end of the Lakers game that gave them the win over the Celtics, by the way,

the Lakers have won five straight there. Feel terrible for my friends from Boston. But where do you fall on referees? I personally don't get worked up and exercised about referees because I think that they do have an incredibly hard job. And ultimately, complaining about the referees feels like bad fandom. Like, it evens out eventually. Well, I'm a hypocrite because with the NBA,

I don't have a favorite team. I cheer for players. But in college, yeah, I fucking hate the refs. There's always fucking wrong. But in the NBA, I'm like, you guys should all probably just relax. But this is the nature of sport, is that it's going very quickly.

We've put in these replays. But at some point, it is up to the league to correct some of these things when they do carry over to a win, like we saw with the Blazers early in the season, with the jazz goaltending call. So I think at a certain point,

it's onto their bosses, who, yes, are the people that hired them, but also need to remedy things if they fuck up. To summarize, not for you to say. Who knows? Who knows? Not for her to say. Let's go to the buyout market. Markeith Morris is in Los Angeles,

got a buyout with the Pistons. According to ESPN's Bobby Marks, he left more than $4 million on the table between what he was owed for the rest of this season. And next lands with the Lakers. Before we get to both Marcus and Marquief being in Los Angeles, Dan, how does he fit with the Lakers? I mean, I think we should stop short of thinking

and this is like, you know, Rashid to the Pistons back in the day or something like that. Like, I don't know that it's going to make that big a difference, but he's hit about 40% of his threes this season. If he's maybe a stretch four that you can play next to any of their centers or AD, they can fit alongside that could work out well. The big, I think, rotational thing is it's probably going to make Kuzma like a more of a small forward

and a guy that guards big wings for them. That's the kind of thing they were really missing. And they couldn't really land that or another creator on the backup market. So I'm not sure it makes a big difference. them, but turning Boogie Cousins, who wasn't really doing anything for them into somebody who could, is a, you know, that there's an upgrade there. Yeah. And a lot of Marcus and Marquith Morris content on today's program. We're going to have some of them later on in a good call, bad call. But Haley, we've got both Morris's, Mori. Is it Mori or Morris's? How do we want to do it?

Mori? I like Mori. Both Mori are here. We got Brother versus brother. Two more I enter. One more I leaves. You decide who's the better Mori. Isn't it like a consensus? It's Marcus. Yeah? Yeah, it used to be Marquif. It honestly used to be Marquif, but it's definitely Marcus. It oscillates.

Does anyone here not think that? Well, I think this season Marcus had a career year in New York, but he was also putting up good stats, bad team. It has changed throughout their career. There have been, I think, early in their career, it was Marquif. Lately, I think Marcus has definitely come on. It's tough for me because, I don't know if you know this, they're brothers. could pick either one.

Dan, which way would you go? I think I would say Marcus right now, but I think that's also more about the way the league is kind of moved. Like if you are a tweener 3-4 forward, you used to be kind of like a guy that had a man without a country,

and now you're one of the more valuable types of pieces that you can be in the league if you can create your own shot and defend both those positions. The issue, though, is with Marcus, so he was shooting 44% from three in New York and everyone was like, wow, this guy's the best. I was like, maybe you should move off that guy

while he's in the middle of his career year. And so far, only four games, but he's five of 18 from three in L.A. Maybe he's not a 44% three-point shooter for the remainder of the season. Too early to say, we'll have to see. But the value that, a lot of that's tied up in that for him, and that so far has not translated as he's moved coast to coast. What you hear there is remorse in the voice of noted New York Knicks fan, Dan Devine, that his beloved Marcus Morris is no longer in tow.

Godspeed to both more. They'll be back later in the program. Dan, you mentioned Boogie Cousins. The Lakers waived him to make room for Markeith Morris. Boogie was on the all-smoke pod just a few days earlier and said he hoped to join the Lakers for the playoffs after he recovers from his torn ACL. And Dave McMediffin from ESPN was like, oh, that's interesting. I'd like to interview Boogie about this. And the Lakers denied his request and then like the next day waived him.

So wamp-womp, poor Boogie, he's gone. My question, though, is Haley, what do you think he has left? And would you want him? I would need a lot more information about my hypothetical team to know if I'd want to try to know. Well, let me throw out a hypothetical team. I saw a lot of stuff on Twitter by Boston Celtics fans saying, hey, let's add Boogie Cousins. And I was like, might want to pop the brakes on that. He's got a lot of injuries. And who knows what he has left. I mean, we just, we don't think that when he comes back, he's going to be above taking the minimum, right? I don't know where he'd be slotted because. Under that kind of circumstance. And yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's the thing he's had to.

force himself into to prove when I come back from injury, I'll be just fine. And a lot of times big guys like that aren't just fine. This is one of those wild drop-offs that seems like it could legitimately be the end. This just happens for some players. And they're just like out. After this last injury, I thought maybe this might be it for him. Like, I don't know what book he has left because he's been so injury prone over these last few years. And we saw when he did come back last year that he didn't look like himself and he was getting worked pretty well on the court. And Marcus Saul was just murdering him. and as was Sir Jabaka.

And they like, it just didn't have a lot. Over the course of 19 months, he ruptured his Achilles, he ruptured his quad, and he tore his ACL. Like there's, that's devastating stuff back,

one of them, but let alone back to back to back for a guy who's 611, what, like 270 and is, you know, now turning 30. Like there's just a lot stacked up against him. And unfortunately,

I wound up writing about this last summer when he had, you know, it was announced that he had the injury. And it was like, this feels like you're watching a what if unfold in real time, like remembering what that guy looked like before it all, you know, the wheels came off,

you know, sort of literally in this case. And, you know, I hope that's not true, but I have to imagine, like there's a world where he's a stretch five that can, you know, play make a little bit and be a valuable player off the bench. That's what they were hoping for in Golden State last year. But at this point,

how you do anything more than like a one year minimum prove it deal. I have no idea how you as a team could feel comfortable with that. Boogie Cousins injury will, keep an eye on some other injuries that I want to just rattle through real quick here. Kyrie Irving, season ending shoulder surgery, missed 26 games over two months. He played in only 20 games. They're shutting him down. Dan, how does it change things for the Nets?

Looks like it's going to be difficult for them to pull a late season tank here. At this point, you know, multiple, the Wizards are six games behind them. The Bulls and Hornets are eight and a half games back. Almost all of the, like, projection systems have them, the Nets at 99 plus percent to make the playoffs. They're just too far ahead at this point. And the likeliest thing for them, according to Mike Bowie,

it impredictable, they have seeding probabilities on his website, about a 74% chance of finishing in the seventh seed. So, like, no matter what they do, basically, because the rest of the East is so ass, they're going to be where they are,

they're going to be where they are right now. They are so ass. Speaking of the rest of the East, Kemba Walker had his knee drained on Friday, received an injection of something I can't pronounce, so I won't. He's dealing with swelling and pain. Brad Stevens said he had another scan that Kemba had one,

not Brad. although Brad might have had one, but Kemba has a scan looks good structurally, supposedly. Haley, he played 46 minutes before the All-Star break in a double-O-T versus the clips. Then he played 29 minutes for Team LeBron. He didn't play versus the Wolves on Friday. How do you feel about how the Celtics have handled Kemba? Because they're going to obviously need him for the postseason, and now all of a sudden, this feels very ambitish from last year, or it was like, oh, they did the resting at the beginning of the year,

and then all of a sudden, like, he was playing heavy minutes towards the end of the year, and then also in the All-Star game, and then all of a sudden, boom, he's got some issues. I don't really think that we can... Criticize them, Haley. I don't think we can put this much blame on the Celtics because we don't know what Kembo was telling them the entire time. Sometimes with an injury, you don't know that you can't go out

until you literally can't go out. So I seriously doubt that he would have played 29 minutes in the All-Star game, even with as much fun as it looked, playing in that game for once. And this would have been his second time ever in his career. I don't think that he would have played it had he had so much pain that he knew admit he would be sacrificing a game down the line. I think you and I have a really good and deep connection, so I'm going to continue to serve as your translator.

What you just heard was the Boston Celtics are negligent, and it's all their fault. Okay, the Sixers have like the worst medical staff turnoff. The Sixers have never to do with this. Why are you bringing up to Sixers? Let's just leave them for a second. They're going to come up in the main event in just a second. A couple more for you.

Carl Anthony Towns out at least two weeks with a broken left red. Nasreed stepped in. He's looked okay. The other one, though, Dan, that I wanted to run past you before we go to the main event. Sharon Jackson, Jr., Woj says that he sprained his knee and he'll be re-evaluated in two weeks. They're not sure. Re-evaluated in two weeks could mean that he's out for three or four. Currently, they're ahead of the Blazers, Spurs, and Pelicans for that eight-seated in the West.

But in the next two weeks, they play the Lakers, Clippers, Rockets, and Mavericks. How worried should our, and I'm saying that collectively, because it's the team of Heat Check, How worried should our Memphis Grizzlies be about holding on to that eighth seed without Jaron Jackson, Jr.? If that's really what the thing they care about a lot right now is holding on to that eight seed and making a playoff run, I think they should be really worried. They have, according to tankathon.com, the toughest remaining strength of schedule in the league. You mentioned the next couple of weeks, but it goes past that. And New Orleans and Portland are both in the five easiest schedules in the league the rest of the way. And, you know, the pelicans with Zion look a lot different than they did beforehand.

And the big thing for them, this is a little bit staty, but since the trade deadline, when they moved Jay Crowder and they put Kyle Anderson into the starting lineup, the Grizzly starters are getting rocked. They're minus 44 in 54 minutes, just cannot score, something like 76 points per 100 possessions. So they got to figure something out with the starting lineup, Jaron Jackson being out hurts. Taylor Jenkins, Charks's boy used to post up Charks in high school. We're going to have to figure out what sort of adjustments they can make if they want to hold on because Zion's coming and Lillard's coming back too. so something's going to have to get fixed up there. They got something of a cushion, though, right? At present, as we record this,

they're three games up on the Trailblazers, three and a half games up on the Pelicans who we're going to get to a little bit later in the show. Haley, if you're betting on Grizzlies, Blazers, Pelicans, which one are you going? I don't know, like you just said, now they have to play the Lakers, Clippers, Rockets, Mavs. That's tough without...

It's a Grizzles podcast, Haley. Don't forget about that. It's a grizzles pod. I'm really worried about their spacing. I'm really worried about their offense. I know your audience. Once again, to translate for Haley, go Grizzlies. They're going to hold on to that 8C. That was NBA instant replay before we go to the main event. A quick break for a word from our sponsors.

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you who do have lawns, you've got this wonderful option. Go out there, get your thicker, quicker, better lawn, and make your yard a Scots yard. And now, back to Heechek. All right, it's time for the main event. All right, for this week's main event, we're going to go, we're going to go right to the source. Dan Devine, I don't know if you guys know this, excellent writer, puts all kinds of content on the ringer.com. Don't get too excited about this because I'm coming for you in this. I got a lot of problems with you this week, Dan. But he wrote a wonderful story, and I encourage you to read it on the ringer.com about the five most interesting teams of the stretch run.

We're going to start with one that really we could just skip over this immediately. Philadelphia 76ers landed in his top five most interesting teams. I don't know why. They got smacked by the Bucks over the weekend in Milwaukee. They lost by 21. The Bucks, by the way, have already clinched a playoff berth. It's the earliest they've secured a spot in the postseason in 15 years. The Sixers in that game, they had been.

Simmons, he came back from a back injury. He played four minutes, Haley, and then came out. There was a report after he came out that he would be getting back treatment whenever he came off the floor, and that would be, quote, the norm. And I thought, hmm, that doesn't sound like a good norm. Instead, he did not return at all. He underwent evaluation over the weekend. That will continue. He is out today on Monday versus the Atlanta Hawks. This is a complete shit show. Concerns over Simmons? Huge concerns. First of all, back is not one of those casual. Like, every time he comes off, we're going to ice it. That's really not how back injuries work. Nothing sounds worse except for like Achilles injuries. But it's a huge concern without him like what Josh Richardson,

Alec Berks, Alex Berks, Raul-O-Netto, like that's who's running your office. He's handsome. He's not very good at basketball, but he's pretty handsome. But do you want him running your offense? I like to look at him. Dan Devine, tell us why, let's just do this. Why did you put the Sixers on your five most interesting? Because right before the break, Brett Brown ripped off the bandaid and sent Al Horford to the bench. And it looked real. good against the clippers and it has not looked real great since. This might be less a how everybody fits together thing and a how Al Horford is doing thing. I'm not,

I'm not sure how playing without Ben Simmons is going to adjust that or address that in a positive way. I think this is a, this is a concerning moment because the thing that is sort of quiet as it's kept, the Sixers defense, we think about Embed because he's such an awesome monster rim protector when he's playing. Simmons has maybe been the best overall defender on the team all season. They give up about four more points per hundred possessions when he's off the floor. They lose their most versatile perimeter defender without him.

And all of a sudden, you're funneling guys at the rim, but they're getting a free start. So I think there's a lot of concerns for the way that the Sixers are going to manage this, especially if, as Haley mentioned, the back injury is something that's got to be monitored and managed moving forward. I say this knowing that I'm too close to the situation. I'm a noted Brett Brown fan. I'm a noted to Elton Brand fan. the way that this team is currently constructed, no bueno. This four-year contract that they gave Al Horford looks like a goddamn disaster already, and it makes me nervous about not just this season, but moving forward entirely.

Our guy, Kyle Newbeck shouts to him from the Philly Voice, had an excellent tweet, I think, nailed it. It said a lot of focus on Horford's contract, but Chris Middleton got extended for $2 million less over five years than Tobias Harris. And Milwaukee wouldn't exchange those two if you gave them the rights to the cheese steak and the roast pork. sandwich in the deal. Completely true. Haley, how bad do the Horford and Harris deals look? I mean, without Horford, he would have been hurting them either way. Either he's on another team stopping and beat or he's on Philly.

All right. Let's not get carried away over here. And we could have just done something like very strong. We could have played it straight here and said, yeah, John, the deals don't look so hot. I feel terribly for you. But instead, you've got to dunk on me while we're all, like this whole, this whole segment is a dunk on all of Philadelphia. If I ever say John on this podcast instead of gone, I have been kidnapped.

Please contact my bosses. I don't think that you've ever called me, John. I never have. It's also always been too much with Tobias. Right? That contract has... They didn't... Once they traded for them, they had to keep them and...

They were in a tough spot and I understand why they did it. And I still am not out on him potentially growing into it. But it is one of those situations, obviously not as egregious as Andrew Wiggins. as Andrew Wiggins, but you're paying them because of what they could be and also they're there and you don't know when someone else of that skill level will be there. Dan, let's wrap up the Sixers with this. Embed, without Simmons, is really going to need to step up, especially because as we mentioned, Al Horford has not looked good, whether they're starting them alongside Embed or putting them

on the bench. So my question is, can Embed lead carry them and turn this thing around and what are your expectations for them moving into the playoffs? Because supposedly, this team is built for the playoffs and I would love to know what kind of playoffs they're built for. Yeah, I mean, the weird thing is, it's not out of the question for Embed to go nuts for like three or four weeks and get them back into the four seed. And then all of a sudden, you're starting a playoff series at home instead of on the road,

which, Gons, I don't know if you know this, they are disastrous on the road away from Wells Fargo Center. So it's, do you have to play games on the road in the playoffs? Check with the NBA on that. I got to call somebody. I believe so. And so it's, I mean, it's not out of the question because Embededd is that good when he is all the way there.

he's going to have to really great asshole his way through the next six to eight weeks. Not just good, great to get them where they need to be. Because at this point, it looks like they built a team to beat the bucks and the wheels are going to fall off before they even get close. Yeah, I don't see when they get to that spot. Right now, there are two games up on the Indiana Pacers, who was another team that landed on your five most interesting teams for the stretch run. In typical ringer fashion, so we hire Rob Mahoney, who's a lovely lad,

and immediately has been infected with. the ringer curse virus. He writes this big piece about the Indiana Pacers and immediately they fall apart. They've been a bottom 10 defense over the time since Rob wrote that story. Dan, go ahead, make the case for the Indiana Pacers five most interesting. It's all about Victor Oladipo and what he looks like, right? I mean, the idea is nobody as adding a player or nobody did add a player of as much potential consequence at the deadline as Oladipo, who, remember, was an all NBA guard, fantastic player on both ends of the floor, but he's coming off a year on the bench after his ruptured quad tendon injury,

and he's got to get reclamated to his body, and he's got to be comfortable enough with what he can do offensively. And the early going has not been, the early returns have not been great even before the monster blowout loss they had against the pacer against the Raptors, rather this weekend. Paolo Ogeti, our colleague, wrote about that a little bit in his sort of big column, Monday column, where is Ola Depot going to fit in, how is he going to do?

And the early returns have been really rough. they need the best version of him in two months, but if they don't start getting it sooner and build that continuity before then, it's going to be really tough to see them making any noise in a three-six matchup. Yeah, Haley, the Pacers with and without Oladipa over the last couple of seasons

have been plucky, right? They've just been like in that four, five, six mix and you know that they're going to be a tough out and then I think that their floor and their ceiling are like, the ceiling's not so high, but the floor is pretty high as well, right? They're very competent

professional basketball team, but what kind of hopes do you have for the Pacers as the playoffs approach? Well, what we had championed them as earlier in the season then you're talking about the last couple of seasons, this team that can maximize their individual role players, we're never going to see that

or have their potential with Oladipo realized unless guys like Malcolm Brogden are playing at their absolute best. And he's been really struggling. Like the entire month of February, all of a sudden he forgot how to shoot threes. He's had a string of injuries all season. And so it really depends on those guys just as much collectively as it depends on Ola DPA. I wouldn't want to play the Pacers, though.

I know that they've been scuffling a little bit, but they're just one of those teams where I'm like they're deep. And I think like once Ola Depot starts to figure out, you know, once he knocks some of the rust off a little bit, I think that they'll be better. But your top scores can't be the Holiday Brothers. Yeah, that's a bad, that's a bad omen. So one of the teams that also had, I'm not sure what to make of the Pacers. I'm also not sure what to make of this next team that landed on Dan's list, the Houston Rockets, they have decided that centers are done for them forever. Dan, how's the small ball experiment working out so far and how dangerous do you think

that they could be in the playoffs? It's looked really good. I mean, they functionally turned Russell Westbrook into a center, right? Like, I mean, by removing Klingkepella, putting Robert Covington in, and sort of building the entire organization around five out basketball, it's about who puts the most pressure on the rim all the time. And it's Westbrook. when I wrote the piece, I haven't looked at the updated numbers the last couple of days,

but he was averaging something like 24 drives to the basket a game, almost 20 points per game just off of drives since they went to this sort of all five-out small-ball look. It gets the best out of him. It puts everybody else into sort of more reduced and situational roles. And it also puts defenses, it forces defenses to play left-handed, basically. You are going to, if you're going to play us with your traditional big, we're going to run him off the floor or make him guard Russell Westbrook like Rudy Gobert had to. It didn't work out so hot for Rudy in the jazz, who I'm sure are loving the idea of facing another four, five series against the Rockets in the playoffs.

So it puts everybody else sort of off their game. And I don't know if it's going to win them three series in the playoffs, but it makes everybody else's life a miserable experience when they've got to deal with Houston over a longer period of time. Haley, I like this conceptually. I like the idea of playground five out basketball where it's just like, let's put a bunch of, quick small guys on the floor and we're going to get to the rim or shoot threes and it's like an exaggeration and over-exaggeration of what the rockets were doing anyway previously. I don't know about this in the playoffs. On the one hand, I think to myself, look, the playoffs is a different brand of basketball.

It's more ISO. It's more attacking the weakest defender by putting them in the pick and roll. You're going to tighten up your rotations. So in theory, I think this could maybe work a little bit. But then I think, really, like this is going to be their whole team like in perpetuity? brain. It's very gallic. It will change everything if it is successful in the playoffs. But this has always been the Rockets. They're willing to make these enormous changes. They brought on Chris Paul. They all the sudden fully leaned into the way that the NBA was trending anyway. And for them to say,

we're going to do this entirely unprecedented lineup, like Dan was just saying, that's them. And what they had before was not working out in the playoffs. It wasn't. That's true. I mean, relatively, relatively. I should start saying that because people are like, what are you talking about? They always get forward. There were a couple threes when they went like 0 for 26 in that series against Golden State. Who knows what happens if they like make, say, one of 26. But instead we're talking about this weird experiment.

We'll continue to monitor that. The New Orleans Pelicans on the rise, also on your list, Dan, they play the Lakers on Tuesday. I'm very excited to see the current Lakers team against the old Lakers team in that game. But Zion has been as advertised. He is really crushing it. He looked really good and went over. Golden State. What do you, before I ask you the main question that I have about Zion, oh, by the way,

he made a three. It was the first time he made a three in a month. And nobody talks about that. Everybody wants to talk about it with Ben Simmons, who now has back issues and then just continue to kick him while he's down, getting his back, his back rehab. But nobody says anything about Zion. Go ahead and talk about Zion there, Dan. The thing that, you know, Zion has, as you mentioned, has been absolutely as advertised.

The on-off numbers are insane. his efficiency and effectiveness in terms of what he's been putting up per minute or like out of this world like Wilts Chamberlain or rookie M. Bede kind of numbers. It's just it's bonkers. The thing that I was interested about when I wrote this piece was how he fits next to Ingram, right? That was sort of our big question. Brandon Ingram was an all star. Brandon Ingram adopted the role of the number one overall option on this team while Zion was getting his way back into the lineup. So how are they going to fit together? And what does Zion's emergence into like a big high usage role mean for Ingram? And the early returns on that.

have been really good. They're outscoring teams by almost 10 points per 100 possessions when those two guys share the court. Ingram's productivity in terms of like per 36 minutes in the way his usage is, his usage is down a little bit, his efficiency is right there still.

And they're starting to work together too. Like we saw some 4-5 pick and roll or a, I guess 3-4 pick-and-roll with them where Ingram is the ball handler, Zion's the screener and sort of pocket passes finding one another. I think that there's a room for those guys to understand how to play together

and to combine in a really interesting way, and you've got Zion's physicality and Ingram's length in terms of what they can do defensively. I love the partnership. And I think what you're looking at is this whole thing with them with Anthony Davis and how it all shook out, some luck, some better health, et cetera. You maybe have two under 23 building blocks for the next half decade, assuming they're going to max out Ingram and Free Agency. I expect they would do that. And Zion looking like the absolute truth. I think this is a really exciting last 2530 games to see, can they be good enough together to push them in?

the playoffs and what does that mean for New Orleans, not just the next 25 games, but moving forward for the next few years. Yeah, Haley, the way that Zion has sort of elevated the Pelicans has been fascinating to watch, especially because as I mentioned, the three and a half games back of the Grizzlies as we record this, and yet 538 gives them a 67% chance to take that eighth seed, whereas the Grizzlies have just a 7% chance of holding on to it. Similar numbers out of ESPN's playoff predictions. They've got the Grizzlies with a 15% chance of making it, and they've got the Pelicans with a 32% chance of making it. So both 538 and ESPN forecast that the Pelicans will make it over the Grizzlies.

How do you feel about the pairing of Brandon and Zion? And do you think that the Pelicans will get that eight seed? While I answer this, will you look at Portland's? Because now I'm very curious. Because those are, that's, I wasn't expecting that for. 30% chance for Portland. So about the same on ESPN as the Pelicans. And for 538, they've got about an 18% chance.

chance. So sort of all over the place, but the Pelicans, if you're going to do it in the aggregate, would have a better chance by these two predictive models. That's really interesting because Portland has one of the easiest remaining schedules. So you're going with... I think it might be Portland, too. I think we're counting out. That's surprising. I mean, the thing about Portland is that they always come through in the end. I mean, literally that's their identity. Damian Lillard comes through in the end. Dame Time is his nickname. So that's surprising to me, but I do get it. You were talking about their partnership earlier. Dan, you were talking about their pick and roll. It's hilarious. Like you can't, you'll never get around Zion. You're going to have a really hard time

going over at Ingram. It's just them together is really interesting. And also, I think it works because Ingram gets to use more of what he did when he was Point Ingram for the Lakers. And, you know, that was a lot of fun. It wasn't like super polished, but that was fun. He has more ball handling responsibilities. He can create offense. And it's really easy. Zion makes it really easy. So the two of them together is very exciting. They've been fun to watch. I want to ask you guys about this. Dan, you mentioned earlier, Allroads lead back to Philadelphia. You mentioned M. B. and his rookie campaign. What do you think the chances are that Zion, if he continues on this trajectory, gets into, I mean, he's going to be in the conversation. Well, what's the

chance that he actually wins rookie of the year? He's on pace to play something like 37 games. Do you think that'll be enough, like if they catch the gris or get past them, do you think that'll be enough for him to win the award over Jahu has been here all season long and has been killing it all season long? Yeah, I have a hard time seeing it. I mean, I know that what we're seeing from Zion in terms of his production has been just out of this world, but it would have to be like where Luca is now for the next like 30 games to get there, I think. I think you'd have to, um, you have to establish the bodywork, the difference in how much they played. And I know this is a sort of subject in terms of differential in games and

minutes for the Brogden and Bede conversation. Ridiculous. Still ridiculous. Still ridiculous. But it's the, I think for a lot of decision makers, that's going to be a factor. Like, and especially the fact that job, has been like the fourth quarter closer in Memphis all season long. So it's not just like he's along for the ride. He has been the decider in a lot of their victories late in games. So I think in all there's just there's such a huge lead he's built up. But it's going to be an awful lot of fun watching Zion try to close it down.

I think so too. I wouldn't go Zion. I'd still go job. Would you entertain it, Haley? Giving Zion the. If he continues on this trajectory and he plays something approaching 37 games, would you entertain it over Jai? No, that's not enough.

This is good. It's a Grizzlies podcast. She knows our audience. last one for you. Dan, this is what I really wanted to come at you for. You had so many options here for this fifth and final team of the most interesting. You could have gone with our Memphis Grizzlies. You didn't. You could have gone with the Portland Trailblazers, as Haley mentioned, very interesting team. People are overlooking them. Dame Lillard is killing it. Instead, you pick the Phoenix Sons. Defend yourself. All right. So there's three things. One is Rob Mahoney had just written like a thesis about how dope Damian Lillard is.

and I was kind of like, well, I don't really know what I would want to say about Portland beyond that. Two is I'd written a lot about, I've written a fair amount about the Grizzlies, about John Moran, about DeAnne, about DeAnne about DeAnne-Melton, about Brandon Clark and other guys. And I had a feeling I was going to be doing that again, which spoiler, I'm going to be doing that for Wednesday. So I kind of knew there was going to be more coming there. And three, DeAndre Aiden was the number one overall pick in the draft a year ago. And we, it's like forgot he existed. And all the sudden, and like the big knock on him for all of last year was he plays defense like shit.

and you can't win with a big guy that plays defense like that. And what if I told you, Gans, that he doesn't play defense like shit anymore? And maybe he's like an actual 19 and 10 guy who's a pretty good defensive center right now and who's not, like, 21 years old. And when he's on the floor, Phoenix is about like a league average defense and they kill people with him and Booker on the court. So that was, I've been watching that, like, the minutes stack up for that since Booker, uh, since Aitin came back from his 25 game suspension.

And like the more minutes you get and the more the numbers stay that way, Like, this might be real. And if it's real, then maybe Phoenix actually does have something to build around there. So that's why you want to watch it over the next 2530 games and see, like, is there something real there? Because them with Michael McHale Bridges, Kelly Ubre, like when Ricky Rubio, our boy Rick Rubio. Right. As both of us grow our beards out in honor of Rick Rubio, there's something there. And I don't know if it's real yet, but I'm interested to find out because if it is next season, they might be a team worth paying attention to, I think.

I'm going to translate for you the same way that I did for Haley. Please do. Coastal elite Dan Devine skips right over the San Antonio Spurs and their quest to make the playoffs. They are garbage. They have not been able to defend anybody all season long. They're not making the playoffs. I would write about that. Could be the end of their run and you just skipped right over them.

I personally would have gone for the Memphis Grizzlies for all the reasons that we outlined previously. One more quick Grizzlies thing as we wrap up the main event. I just wanted to bring this to everybody's attention. Donald Trump Jr. has been granted the right to hunt a grizzly bear in northwestern Alaska near the Bering Sea Town of Nome, a state official set on Friday. Now, as always, I just want to say, go Grizzlies. Go Grizzlies. And that was the main event. Let's go to everybody's favorite segment of the show.

It's time for Good Call, Bad Call. What a bold call here. All right. Let's rattle through some good call, bad calls here. There were some photos on social media. media of Janice and Ambide. Definitely Ambide, the one of Janice, I'm not sure, Haley, if it was actually Janice, but definitely Embed spotted at a Milwaukee area casino on Friday night, as we mentioned earlier in the program on Saturday. The Sixers got blowed out in Milwaukee.

Good call or bad call to Embed in the casino the night before. Gambling is good for the soul. Good call. Dan Devine. Good call. Have fun in Milwaukee. I'm not sure exactly what all is going on around there, but if they got something, go for it, Joel. Steve Allman. I'd like to say that there's more to Milwaukee than just casinos as my sister lives there and it's a very nice town. You can do more. Bad call. Oh, interesting.

I did not see that coming. Swerve. There's nothing lovelier than a night spent in a casino. Sure. There are so many more things that are better than a night of the casino. Yeah. I can think of a couple. Are you like descending from a staircase and an elegant gown or is it like nickel slots?

Every time we've gone to Vegas, As Jason Gallagher, how I do. I'm sure you do great. I ask you for betting advice all the time. I'll go a good call. They crapped out on the floor. Have some time in the casino. Enjoy yourself.

Why not? Zion Williamson, we mentioned him earlier. He debuted his Purple Jordan 34s in Portland. J.E. Skeets called them the Thanos Ones, continuing the heat check tradition of mentioning things that are visual topics. Good call or bad call on the actual shoes themselves. Helioshaelio Shauna. Is it these? I just put it up on Google images. It's those right there. Santos. That's a comic book thing. It's a Marvel. It's a Marvel extended universe. I'm asking

about the actual shoes. Do you like the shoes? Yeah. Purple looks good on him. I don't know. Why not? That's an I don't know and good call. Bad call. It's now a new category. Dan DeVar on Europe. It's a good call for Zion. I personally have to stay away from anything purple. I just look like grimace. So I got to say, for me not so good. But for Zion, thumbs up, my friend. You would make an excellent grimace. I can totally see it now. That's going to be your Halloween costume. Mention that to the girls. Steve Allman. These straight up look like a GameCube controller.

Absolutely not bad call. I'm 100% good call on these. I think they look good and I think they look good on Zion. I'm not sure I personally wouldn't rock purple, but I like, I'm a Jordan fan. I have a lot of Jordans. I wouldn't wear this particular model, but I think it's a good model for current basketball players. I was going to say this means a lot coming from you because you always have nice shoes. Yeah, but I'm an early Jordan guy.

The classics. Yeah, I'm not wearing on court. basketball shoes. All right. Hopefully not. Bringing it back to the more... Guys, don't do that. Don't do that.

Don't do that. Bringing it back to the Mori twins. Marcus plans to attend all of his brother's Lakers games. He joked about them carpooling to Staples Center together. That might be difficult if one team's on the road. He said that other people might find it weird,

but to them it's not. Now remember that these two guys once split a contract when they were both with the sons. They lived together in Phoenix. They're from Philadelphia, so I have a special place in my heart. for them. Haley, good call or bad call on the Mori twins's unique brand of brotherly love. It's such a good call. You just mentioned them being from Philadelphia. I feel like this might

also cross over into you, but I come from an extremely competitive family where this is how we love, you know, by talking shit to each other and basketball games and football games in the backyard. So extremely good call. Dan Devon, you're close with your brother. I am a big family as well, Irish, Catholic, all sorts of kids all over the place. Good call. I mean, when you said, mentioned the split bank account. I was wondering about that when the Bobby Marks thing from earlier, like, oh, he left four million on the table. I was like, oh, don't worry about Marcus got that. They're going to split that up. Don't worry. Marcus got 15 million from the Knicks, so we're all set. I think good call. Although, yeah, the part about them going to one another's games, it opens

the door to the midgame switch, the thing we've been talking about for years. Like, is it going to be like a wrestling tag team where they have the masks in the same costumes? And then one goes in, one goes out, I'm crossing my fingers for it. Maybe in a playoff series, which Morris is playing for which side? The intrigue, the intrigue. Oh, you could swap them out. It would be amazing. Steve Allman. I know that I can't share a bank account with my sister because she would end up murdering me, but it's a very good call for this type of family dynamics. I'm for it. I don't have a brush. Steve, could she influence that bank account with those Milwaukee casinos, though? There is absolutely, go in there and come up real big for you. There's a reason that I said that there's better things to do in Milwaukee.

I don't have a brother apart from you two guys and also of course, Haley Haley, you're also my brother. But I love this. I love how weird they are about how much they like to hang out with each other. And to see Marquif in the stands for a Marcus game and vice versa, I'm all for a good call. Last one for you. This was not on the original menu.

Steve and I were doing some pre-show prep and came across this thing called the Mischief Mystery Box. This has nothing to do with basketball. if you've already checked out, I don't blame you, but it's very interesting. The mischief mystery box is this box offered by this company, the mischief company. I'm going to, I'm going to explain this to you real quick here. So what happens is mischief sends you a mystery box that you pay $100 for it. And it's filled with a random item worth anywhere from $0 to $7,000. And the box's value increases by $10 a day for 100 days if unopened. And it can be cashed in by mailing back.

the misdrift mystery box to the company at the end for up to $1,000. So potentially you could open it up and something could be in there worth $7,000 or it could be worth nothing. But if you wait, you should get more than your initial investment back. Now, for example, like this guy on the internet got two mischief mystery boxes and one of them was a drone and one of them was like some Pokemon cards, right? So you might have ended up paying $100 for a drone that costs like several hundred. Did you just say Pokemon?

Because even I know that's not. I was like, I know something about that! These damn kids with their Pokemans. You know, with their stupid cards and whatnot. You paid $100 and you got some Pokeyman in your box. Anyway, the point here is that you don't know what you're going to get, and it's a very interesting thing. Now, I'm not asking you good call or bad call on this stupid promotion.

Steve and I have decided that we need one of these for heat check. Good call or bad call on each of us pitching in $25 and getting one of these boxes. Let me know. I will let you know how my parles go tonight. So once again, Haley O'Shaughnessy, not taking the stance. Good call. Dan Devine, I think you're in on this. Haley, I'll cover your 25. Let's do this. Now, the question. All we have to do is not open it for a month and then we get a grand. Well, so for each of us, it would be $250 back minus our $25 investment.

So we're clearing $2.25. Haley, I got you. Let's do this. No matter what? Well, in theory, because who knows, like, we might be giving up something better in there. Maybe we want to open the box. God's don't open this box. I see your head working. I can see the wheels turning.

Steve, give him his Pokemon cards. Steve, I know that you're on board because you and I hatched this dumb plan. Absolutely. Do you think that you and I could make it 100 days without opening it? Absolutely. This was a game in a Milwaukee casino that I graciously regret. Yes. I say.

Steve, Steve, Steve, how much time? are you spending in Milwaukee Casinos? I'm spending it all with my sister, all right? This is family dynamics. I say good call to all of us going in on this venture. I'm non-committal on pledging not to open it, Dan Devine. I might have to open it. Also, who's going to be the keeper of the box?

I'll keep it. It can't be you. It very clearly can't be you. Yes. Can you put Brad Pitt's what's in the box over this? Oh, yeah. What's in the fucking box? All right, perfect.

She's producing the show. She's a professional. Haley O'Shaughnessy, thank you for that. That was a wonderful idea. Dan Devon, you killed it today. Steve Almond, as always, you did the same. I want to remind all of you, please rate and review us if you would be so kind. Read all of our content on the ringer.com. Listen to the Ringer NBA show on the Ringer podcast network. Heat Check will be back next week, possibly with the mystery box. Thanks for listening, everybody. Bye.