The Ringer NBA Show - The Future of the Cavs and Knicks With Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Justin Verrier | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 206)

Episode Date: February 7, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons sits down with Chris Ryan and Justin Verrier to discuss Kristaps Porzingis's recent season-ending injury and its effect on the trajectory of the Knicks' season (2:35), possible destinations for Avery Bradley (12:20), and just what the hell is going on in Cleveland (26:55). Then, the guys are joined by Jason Concepcion to commiserate about Porzingis and explore what kinds of changes he may make to his game when he returns (37:30). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show on The Ringer Podcast Network is brought to you by ZipRecruiter, the 2018 presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. A whopping 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter to get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. My listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. We're also brought to you by all the pieces matter, the inside story of the wire. You know who wrote this book, Chris Ryan? Jonathan Abrams. our old Grantland teammate,

one of my favorite people in the world. He interviewed everybody for the wire for an oral history of probably my favorite TV series ever. Where does it rank for you? One, two, something. Just a barrier? Where does it rank? It's up there.

Top five? Top six? I would actually rank it lower. I'd rewatch some of the wires start to show themselves, if you will. Ooh. Wow, this is a terrible puck for Abrams's book. I love Abrams. I bet the book is great. I'm going to say the Wire's best television show ever made. It's either one or two for me.

I don't know where it ranks against Thrones, which has continued to throw me and it isn't over yet. But right now The Wire is one. Anyway, the book comes out on February 13th. You can order it right now on Amazon.com, Barnes & Noble.com, wherever else you buy books. The Wire. If you missed the Ringer NBA show yesterday,

we did a new heat check format hosted by John Gonzalez that I thought worked fantastically. It was great pod. And when four different ways, talk to five different ringer staffers, and that's going to be the model for that show going forward. We are going to continue to revamp this feed. On Friday, we have an NBA draft podcast that we're launching that will happen every Friday with Kevin O'Connor, Danny Chow, and Jonathan Jarks.

And on Thursday, tomorrow, post-trade deadline, during post-trade deadline? Yeah, we're going up on 1130 Pacific, so whatever that is, 2.30 Eastern. will be live on video tomorrow. And then there will be a group chat from that video. So we'll go from the half hour before the deadline, through the deadline, giving you everything you need to know after the deadline. And my podcast as well, the BS podcast,

I'm waiting until after the deadline to tape my podcast and I'm going to have some NBA guests on too. So there you go. Coming up right now, the pre-trade deadline pseudo-emergency podcast with Justin and Chris coming up right now. Okay, we're taping this at 1116, West Coast time Wednesday. So if anything happens, don't blame us.

Let's start with the Knicks. Porzingis went down last night. It looked like a sprained ankle. Then he was like clutching his knee, which was a bad sign. You never liked the slamming your hand on the floor. Yeah, the frustration. There were a lot of all of a sudden red flags for it. You can kind of feel coming.

So here's my only silver lining I can come up with when you lose your best player and foundational piece. How old is he? 22. Something like that, yeah. Halfway through the season, which means he won't even really be able to come back. until probably all-star break next year.

At least now you can tank kind of unapologetically, right? There are only six wins out of the last spot. There's some weird similar it is to Bernard King going down in 1985 when he was leading the league in scoring and then they ended up getting the Patrick Ewing pick, which was a 17-even lottery at that point. But this sucks. On the other hand, if you're looking at it,

trying to find the silver lining, I would say, let's say they get Donkich out of this draft. Porzenghis comes back a year from now and everything's golden that's barely a silver lining. It's a season and a half now because you have to assume even if they get Donkajunless sees immediately awesome

that they're going to be bad for the first half of next season as well. And missed the playoffs. Probably, yes. Right. The weird thing is that the day after all this happened they traded Willie Hernan Gomez, which is the type of guy you would want to play more in the wake-up Rosenghis's absence.

It would make too much sense. And also was apparently one of KP's best. friends on the team and that there's reports that the two of them used to speak Spanish to each other and it kind of bothered some of the guys in the Knicks management structure that they weren't cool with them clicking off and like kind of just talking talking amongst themselves. So not a great day for KP, not a great 48 hours. Well, thank God Charlotte got another power for it. They got rid of one too. Also Johnny O'Brien didn't know that was an NBA player. Yeah. Yeah, he sounds like a bar we would go to after the podcast. Here's my fear with poor Zingas because

I thought about this a lot when there were the 48 hours of rumors when the Celtics might have had a chance for him, as Phil Jackson was completely unraveling Godfather 2 style at the end there. You know, these tall guys, is he 7 foot 3 or 7 foot 4? He's 3, yeah. He's tall. The injury history of these guys over 7 foot 3 is really alarming. And he had had a number of minor injuries before this.

But you think about Sean Bradley blew out his knee, Yao Ming had a shitload of problems. So Drinus Algoskis had a ship load of problems. Ralph Samson, his career was over by the time he was 28. Odom, Bynum. Great. Yeah, I'm not sure Odin was probably, what, 7 foot 1? Yeah. Bynum was maybe 7 foot 1.

I'm saying like really tall dudes. They just don't seem to age well. The only guy I can remember who really was able to kind of survive it was Kareem, who was an alien, who wasn't a human being. But other than that, it's, I don't know whether it's because of the height It's more things can happen as they take their giant steps or what, but it's concerning. And then you look at the history of what happens to these tall guys when they've had a couple injuries from the hips on down and they're just not the same after a while.

And I think he can come back from this, but now the margin of error is closing. What do you think, Justin? Yeah, I mean, my biggest concern with him is not only is he tall, he's just all limbs. And this isn't just an isolated incident. And this is the biggest injury that he's had, but he's had little things pretty much throughout his career. This was the big concern I think Phil Jackson had with him to begin with. Yeah. Which is weird to say that.

Phil Jackson might have been right. Yeah. But I think going forward not only, yeah, it's great that they can tank. They can get another guy in there, which is what they need more than anything. They're forced to think long term more than ever. But I think we have to start wondering if KP can play that much if he's in kind of the Anthony Davis kind of worry zone. Yeah. Concepcion was saying he never thought he should have played more than 28 to

30 minutes a game. I have to admit, I'm not watching the Knicks every game, like some of the Knicks, but I did watch a lot, and I really like watching Porzingis, and especially early in this season when he was going off, it seemed like every time I watched the game, he was stepping on somebody's foot or having something or, oh, that seemed bad. And it was like an every two weeks type thing of like a nervous scare that ended up being okay, and this time it wasn't. He's obviously able to extend out to the three-point line, but one of the best parts about watching Porzingis, is those two-step follow-up dunks and or coming from across the weak side

to block the shit out of somebody's shot. A lot of what he does are these incredibly athletic... In the air coming down and a pile of legs things. That's where weird stuff happens. That's when you're jumping at a time when nobody expects you to jump is when weird stuff happens. I hope that he comes back.

I do worry about him losing some of the ferocity of his game because that's the thing I love most about him is for as much as he'll take a three. I love that. that crashing of the rim that he does. Or maybe he has to refine his game. Rick Smiths is another guy who's 7'4, had a bunch of injuries earlier in his career,

and really kind of slowed his game down and just became a low post type of... Yeah, does he become a really crafty passer out of the post? Maybe I would say that should be the model for him going forward is Rick Smith. I don't think it's a good idea for him to be above the rim all the time because I just think it's too risky. It's really disappointing, though,

when you thought about Chris. stops is like the next unicorn. Yeah. So I would also maybe tell him to get a real trainer in the offseason. Maybe get a guy that like his best advice is and should just go take a nap all the time. Or deadlift. Yeah. The guy who looked like like a jacked Mr. Clean just giving him advice.

Not a good sign. Yeah. There's also like this is a couple of seasons and we're past the rookie wall pretty far past the rookie wall. And you know, earlier in the year, I think it was after a Miami game and he was just like, I'm just so tired. And it's not that you don't want to hear that. But I think that he would express a level of exhaustion that I'm sure many NBA players feel.

But I, for me, if you're not going to win the title this year and your franchise is saying, I'm tired, maybe that's when the two-week fake hamstring fake back injury comes up and you just let that guy wrestle a little bit. Yeah, maybe you protect him on some back-to-back. That's what I'm saying. Yeah. I think the way Philly has handled Embed has been really smart. I don't think he's played a back-to-back this whole season. Their schedule has been really favorable, the last.

couple weeks from a schedule overload standpoint, which I think is one of the reasons he's played a lot better. But, you know, if we were going to, if we had said yesterday afternoon, we were like, who would be the two people who would be the most afraid are going to get hurt tonight? We would have picked them beat in Porzingis. And those seven foot three, seven foot four guys, I just think it's really hard. The history is not great. And, uh, and I'm worried because that first month, it was like, holy shit, this is on. He's going to win the scoring title. I thought he was going to go for 32 a game. I thought LeBron should join the Knicks. That's hoping that would be fun, but, you know, a little bit different now. So there's a couple of things. Who on the Knicks,

I guess they could sell quasi high on Courtney Lee, right? Yeah, that's a good one. He's making, I think, 11 million a year. Yeah. And he's shooting one from five dollars this year. Is Courtney Lee, he's an 11 million a year guy who's the seventh man on a good team. Well, this is the thing that I was talking about. Haley has a piece going up today. That's basically the idea of it is the any other year, All-Stars. So it's guys that in any other financial situation over the last couple of years when everybody was just drunk on cash, guys like Courtney Lee would be really hot property at the trade

deadline because somebody's like, a guy can shoot, like a veteran who can shoot who's not going to get scared of the moment. Let's do it. He pushed the hornets into the playoffs, what, two years ago? Exactly. And I'm thinking, you know, as a Sixers fan, Sixers are an eighth, and we could use some shooting, some on the ball playmaking, maybe, I mean, I'm not enamored with Courtney Lee, but guys like Courtney Lee, especially somebody like Baysmore, who's like a pretty good outside shooter, do you want to play Baysmore 20 million in two years?

You shouldn't be doing anything with your cap space. Nothing, but I'm saying that like, I would keep all of that cap space for the summer. This is my inner Neil Olsheh coming out where I'm just getting seduced by people being on the market. But this year, I think everybody should just stay. away from guys like that. You know, this is where I've stood forever. Don't spend on guys who aren't all-stars if you can't win the title. You know, I just feel like the Hardaway contract, which was ridiculed and rightly so.

But even Courtney Lee, like, where are you going with him? Why are you paying that amount of money? Why are you paying that amount of money for Bismack-Biombo if you're not going to win the title? There's 40 guys like that. I think it makes sense for a team like the Thunder. Yeah. And Courtney Lee is actually someone that Kevin O'Connor brought up in his article today about how they're trying to fill Andre Roberson's spot.

They really haven't had a two guard since James Hardin that was like a consistent part of that team. I think a team like that makes sense. That's the only team that makes sense. Like teams that are just, they're already pot committed and they have to go for it. What's funny, we say this all the time. These teams I'll try to make their teams in July. Yeah.

In August. But then you get to December, January, February, and every year there's dudes available for less money and less years than what you would have had to pay in July. Like right now, you could have Courtney leave for the next three years for $32 million. If you signed them to that in July, it's a good training. It's like, oh, we got Courtney Lee for three years 32. But now it's like, you know, it's almost like a discount. And yet nobody has the cap space to get some of that.

I think Oklahoma City's big move. I'm convinced Davey Bradley's going there. And I think the trade is pretty logical. It's Abrinas and Ferguson, who's two years away from being, anything remotely. Two years away. You might be two years away from two years away. But if you're the clippers and you don't want to pay Bradley,

it came out today finally that they are going to pay Lou Williams. You probably don't want to pay Bradley and Lou Williams and Austin Rivers, like $45 million a year combined for a season when you're not going to win the title anyway. So you flip them into Abrinas who expires next year. And then you get Ferguson, you get to roll the dice with somebody who, I don't know, if he was in the judge. draft this year. I think he would be a top 12, 13 pick maybe. Yeah, those are two interesting guys. I've always had a Brinus fetish. So I think he'd be interesting kind of coming out here and

seeing if he can shoot again. And then if you're OKC, you can walk away from that Bradley contract and you cut some tax for next year. And in the meantime, you show Paul Gensur's serious. He might actually make more sense in that lineup. But we always talk about Roberson and his offensive concerns. At least Bradley has a little bit of offense. You can even run him maybe more in the second unit. He could do a little bit more. Well, and what does he do the best out of anything other than defense. It's make wide open shots, which are available on Oklahoma City. Like those shots are there. Like, like Raymond Felton gets those shots, you know. That's the one move out there that I look at all the, all the major teams. I don't think there's

a move that can save Cleveland. If they save Cleveland, it's going to have to come with some sort of combination of the guys they have. Well, now I'm on, I'm where Justin, Justin all sees, well, since Cleveland sort of started to collapse around, I guess, what, Christmas? Yeah, pretty much. When Isaiah came back. Yep. Justin has been advocating for an almost unprecedented roster overhaul in mid-season. We're just like just blow it up. It's like LeBron and then whatever you can get for the guys that are already there plus the Brooklyn pick. I know they're shopping Tristan Thompson and Jarrah Smith everywhere.

So can we do this now? Are we talking about Cleveland now? Well, hold that for one second. I think Oklahoma City is the only team that has the means and the capability to actually improve their team. I don't think Cleveland can do it. I don't see any path for Golden State to do it. Really the only contracts they have that they can move are Iguidawa or Livingston, and I don't think they're going to do that.

Toronto just doesn't have the, they're just tied up with those two giant contracts. They could flip Bruno and, you know, a second rounder for like a 10th man. It's not going to make a huge impact. Boston's kind of made their move with Greg Monroe. I don't see them doing anything else. What are the other contenders? What about Tyreek? Tyree, that's what I mean.

It's like smaller, whatever. I don't think they're going to be a first round pick for Tyreek. I think they would trademark a smart firm potentially. Minnesota has Cole Aldrich's contract. Yeah. So that could turn into Avery Bradley. I don't, if they put him in a coal Aldridge and a pick for every Bradley, maybe. Maybe.

Maybe. You wonder about Washington. They always make a move. But now John Wall is out. Sataransky's playing well. so I don't know if you really want to mess with what they have going. Milwaukee, although they have another seller.

Yeah. And then San Antonio never makes a move, especially in the midseason. Yeah, I don't think they're going to make a move. It's not while this Kauai question is still, he might not play this year. I have no idea.

So Bradley, if he goes to OKC, in my opinion, a significant move because, and I don't think we do this enough when we talk about contenders trading for players. Avery Brad, like my goal is to be goal.

state in Houston in a playoff series. Whatever trade I'm making, I have to get somebody who could be on the court to beat those teams. We know that Bradley plays well against Golden State. We know he is one of the best three or four guys who, you know, he's, Kyrie Irving had got better, the better of him last year, but he's somebody that's guarded him. But he's done a really nice job on Steph. There's Houston guys he can guard.

And you know if you get him, you're better off. That's somebody who can play crunch time for you. I felt the same way with the Celtics getting Greg Monroe, where, um, you know, who is weirdly underrated now for somebody who's 27. I have to admit, I just completely did not watch him in Phoenix. Yeah. Well,

he was basically playing out his deal, but he's 27. He was 17 and 10 one year and 16 and 9 another year. You know he can post up. You know he's a good passer. He's got specific skills that if they're in a playoff series against Cleveland, the only guy who can guard him on Cleveland is Tristan Thompson. They're going to have to double her.

I have to differ after watching last night. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe nobody. If Tristan Thompson guy rejuvenated. So, you know, that's somebody that makes sense. Like, if he's in a Golden State series, you can't really guard him with Dremont. You could, but now you're taking a lot of steam out of Dremont.

Anyway, I think Bradley, if Oklahoma City got him, that's significant. They are suddenly the best defensive team in the league if Westbrook's trying. Yeah, I mean, Paul George has been on another level on that end. The All-Star Stub was weirdly. awesome for him. Yeah, because I think he's been better than Russ most of the year.

Well, it seems like there's been a slight alpha dog tweaking. I don't want to say it shifted, but he's becoming more of the Durant. He's becoming more of the 1A. And I think it's actually perfect for him because I don't think he wants to emotionally and intellectually be the face of the team

or the voice of the team, but he wants all the on-court benefits of that. And just last night, he was absolutely astonishing on defense. He was so good. He was great. He's kind of taken the mantle from Kauai as the guy who seems like he's a little too big

to be in the kickball game and can just grab basketballs away for people. And on offense, you know, it was pretty fascinating to watch, like, Clay was having a lot of trouble with him on offense last night. Clay was, like, was doing his best. Like, Clay was pretty locked in.

And he was getting called for a lot of fouls, but, like, it just seemed like, it's so rare to see somebody give the Warriors fits and George is that guy. I do think they need to make a move though because before this game they had lost what, four straight and their defense looked bad. They just played without Robeson.

Yeah. So they do need someone else there because I think for a lot of the time like Roberson would take some of the better matchups and George could freelance and they did a lot off of that. I think together they were really, really good. I might have said Roberson was even defensive player of the year going into that injury,

but I still think they need a little bit of something. because they were kind of getting worked by bad teams right before this night. And Houston, Roberson was huge for them against Hardin. Now it's just like Paul George or bust if they play Hardin. They don't have that type of the six foot five creator type or even somebody like Jamal Murray, you saw last week. Yeah. They just couldn't stop them.

But if you put Bradley on that team and now that's your crunch time, by the way, Bradley's better than Robertson and Roberson Robertson, did we ever side where it is? Roberson? I think it's question mark. But he's just better. A lot of people today are talking about, though,

even though Roberson has been having a really decent season and it's playing out of his mind on defense, that you could still... You could still basically turn him into a liability in a playoff series. You can't do that with Bradley. And the other thing is, Bradley is a depreciated value for reasons that are just not his fault. Like, I watched the guy in Boston his whole career.

Stevens always would get him good shots. He can't create his own shot. But he's, if he's playing with people who can create shots or coaches, yeah, there's been off court stuff, the sexual assault accusation and all that stuff, did he pay off somebody? So he's had some things going on off the court. On the court, he's playing with Reggie Jackson and this weird team that didn't totally make sense. I think if you put him on OKC and just like standing that corner, Russ is going to hit you, you know, every five plays, I think he'd be a weapon. Yeah, I mean, the defensive metrics weren't kind to him.

With Detroit. Now, a lot of the metrics weren't kind of most of Detroit throughout this past season. But he's basically a 3-N-D wing at this point. And those guys are really hard to come by. And he has playoff experience. He has experience in big games. So I really like the fit there. By the way, that's why I don't trust defensive metrics at all.

Because defensive metrics tell us that Avery Bradley wasn't good on defense this year, and that Kauai Leonard is actually overrated and things like that. I just don't trust it. Yeah. Golden State, Oklahoma City is around two matchup. that I am drooling for. Unless Minnesota beats Oklahoma City in round one or San Antonio falls back

and somehow Oklahoma City vaults up. But, you know, that's not a great matchup for Gold State. I wouldn't want to play Oklahoma City in round two if they had Avery Bradley. If they didn't have Avery Bradley, I'd bring them on. Yeah, and in those games, Russ always goes for the jugular.

And it feels like the Warriors are a little on tilt. I don't know if it's because of that because Russ is just going full speed right at them. but it just seemed like they're off their game Dremon got what, ejected last night Well, it was weird about that the announcers predicted it before it happened Julian had it like in the first five minutes

The terrible players only broadcast but it was the one moment they had where they were like Dremont's on tilt he's gonna get thrown out there are nights where Dremont is just screaming at everybody and I think if he gets into a physical altercation even if it's just like going up for a basket and he falls down and he thinks that he's been wronged in the call

he doesn't forget he doesn't leave the play behind And so he'll start, if he gets off in a bad mood like that, you can kind of exploit that. And I think the Thunder have actually got quite good at getting under Draymond's skin. Yeah. So. And Westbrook versus Curry has never been an ideal matchup for Curry. There's an athleticism that he just can't match.

As great as he is. I'm going to say something that I'm going to regret eventually because the wars are going to win the title. I kind of like the Rockets right now because I don't trust the Warriors in big games. I do not trust. I do not think the Rockets have a chance. It's just like, I don't know if it's the 3-1 thing, but like, even the Rockets are the thing, but like even the past two Oklahoma City games, it seems like Durant is off

at times. It's just like, things are just not the way they need to be. James Harton has crapped out in multiple playoff series. Chris Paul has not really shown himself to have a body that can sustain through the postseason. And I'm not entirely sure that any of the other guys on that team are like going to make up the difference if any

either of those two things happen. Here's the case against it. I think they're 25 and one now when their best guys play. The Rockets. Yes. Yes. Capella's a little like young and green. You could see it at times. He gets roughed up with some of the bigger centers, which is like another reason why you'd like the thunder because of Adams.

But at the same time, I don't know. They got guys like Richard Mbutei. P.J. Tucker is just a badass who's going to get into it with them. And I would want to see Katie and those guys respond. There's also a one buyout guy potential for them. I think there's going to be some good buyout guys this year. Some of them might be washed. Like Tony Allen's almost definitely washed.

But I also, if he signed with somebody, I'd be at least intrigued. If he went to Oklahoma City Like you'd be like all right Let's see What's see I think that having Tony Allen though It doesn't it doesn't solve the problem you're saying Which is like you can't really play Tony Allen

In a postseason series You can't play him on crunch time Right now there's still the one crunch time I think he was done a couple of seasons ago I love Tony Allen I think he's been done for two seasons Yeah I mean the Warriors exposed him like what Three years ago when they put Bogat on him in that series

Yeah And just let him do whatever he could But even Just having him The illusion of Tony Allen is better than like Josh Houston. Yeah, I'll probably intimidate someone from the sideline, like a dog.

Yeah. Like you go by the fence and he's just barking at you. There's a fight he's getting. My one thing on the Warriors, I'm trying not to overreact to it. I can't believe they have 13 losses before the All-Star break is incredible because they really haven't been killed by injuries

other than the one curry injury. Their bench is not good. They made such a big fuss about their bench and they spent some money. This might have been, the year to let Andre Aguadal go. And I think they made the fatal mistake of, you know, put it this way, Belichick lets him go. Belchick also doesn't play Malcolm Butler in the biggest game of the season.

So he's not always the greatest judge. But Belichick's like, yeah, Andrea Gooda Goudal is old. We can't pay him $15 million a year. Thanks for everything, Andre. Thanks for the two titles. Good luck in your next stop. And he goes and tries to get a stop gap for one year. They didn't.

Now they're locked into all these contracts. caught took a step back. All the weird centers they have. I wouldn't trust any of them. Nick Young is a heat check signing. It's like, I know he's contributed in terms of his shooting, but what do you really,

are you going to play Nick Yelling in their Western Conference center finals? Jordan Bell was the one really bright spot but he got hurt. And I think their bench, I just don't think it's been reliable. And I also think Draymond night to night just isn't the same guy.

We were also talking on the way over that them starting Zaza feels like when the Thunder would start Kendrick. Yeah. It's like you're just doing this because you think you were starting a center or something. Like, is there a union rule or something? Yeah, it might even be worse than that. Yeah.

Yeah, Jordan Bell was a much bigger part of this team than I think people realized. Yeah, it made sense. For what they want out of the center position. And the one thing I've been kind of trumpeting the past few weeks is like things end sooner than we think. And so Iguidala, Dremont Green, these are guys who like, if shots aren't falling, things can just go away pretty quickly. I mean, the conditioning with Dremont Green in particular is a concern. Conditioning and also the emotion that he plays with night to night That I think was a real asset

Especially you think of like that 25 game winning streak Yeah You know, Curry and Thompson were unbelievable Was it 25 games? I think it was Yeah Currie and Thompson were unbelievable obviously But Traymond was the motor for that street

Because there were a couple nights when they didn't have it And he just won the game for them He was the guy who was pushing them to break the single season win record He was like when they were like He was like this is only going to happen once Like we have to do this. We have to go for it. You know, and I think that we're just not used to seeing them be a switch flip team.

It's the same way we're starting to feel about Juliet. Like she, first year, second year, you know, big personality, but we kind of, we manage it and we get past it. But like year four, just the prima don't know. Yeah. She starts to wear it everybody. You start looking around. I'm not worried about going state. And I made, after going on TV in 2013 and 14,

and TV is constructed to be like, all right, what are we talk about? What's wrong with the Knicks? Can the so-and-so win the title? And you just, it's these grandiose storylines. And then you have to give a take. And then they're on video for the rest of your life. I've always been more nervous about saying this team's done, that team's done. I'm not nervous about saying this, though.

The calves are done. I actually think they're, I think this is going to end. even worse than people imagine. The signs are just you can't avoid them. They're one of the worst defensive teams I've ever seen. Rarely have we seen a team that just dislikes each other on the court like this. And LeBron has checked out. Other than that, it's going well.

And they have no trades to make to fix this. And if you look at their roster, it's like what above average players do they have other than LeBron with Kevin Lovell right now? Who are the above average players of the team? not Isaiah, not Crowder. No, all the Amon... Not Thompson, not J.R. Smith, not Amon Shumpert. Like, who are the guy...

Who are the above average guys? There's none. I didn't think a single good player on that team other than LeBron. You know what I'd be a huge indictment of this team as I was thinking about this? We take it for granted because we just, now we are expecting it.

Isn't it... And I say this is an Isaiah Thomas fan. Isn't it wild what he's doing? Like, every night, he's coming out and just being like, nope, we all quit on each. other. Not like, it's like these super candid, really negative, essentially going at Lou, because

almost every night now he's like, that's not how we did it in Boston. In Boston, we tried for the whole game. In Boston, we made adjustments. In Boston, we knew that a team was going to make a run. And when they made a run, we were going to need to be ready for it. And every night, he goes out there in front of the cameras and makes these statements. It seems like he has like filled this void. And Ty Lou obviously got sick last night.

Larry Drew finished a game as a coach. But I can't believe this. You think about all these other sports. Like where, what's the other team where a guy is going out and ethering his teammates and his coaches after games? I can't think of another team right now. We've seen teams quit, but it usually happens in the playoffs. It doesn't seem to happen during, like the 2011 Lakers and the 04 Lakers, I think are good examples of they just, they came apart at the seams. Especially 2011 Lakers is probably the best doppelganger for this team because they were older.

Colby wasn't practicing. They had some chemistry stuff. They didn't have role players that were nearly as good as people thought. And all the signs were there for the playoff collapse, but we didn't want to believe it because they just went back to back. This time now, it seems like people are believing it. We got to start with the Isaiah Thompson, though. Because I watched them the last two years.

You can't describe how different he is now versus he was a year ago. You can go on the YouTube clips and watch it. but he's somebody that really relied on some freaky athleticism for a 5'7 guy who now can't jump. Yeah. And now he's a 5 foot 7 guy who can't jump and who doesn't have any legs and can't guard anybody. I don't understand why they're playing them.

Yeah, the defense has always been a huge concern with the calves, and it only got worse when Isaiah went out there. The one thing that I was struck by last night after all that was happening was just how bad they are in offense with him in there. It's like they had Kyrie and they could always fall back on, well, we have LeBron and Kyrie, they can kind of shoot us out of these games. We can kind of figure it out that way.

But on the other end, like, he's not even contributing on the offense of it. So, like, you're getting suboptimal play on both ends of the floor. And so, like, what are we doing out there? And then he goes out and roasts your coach and your team, like, after the game. He's not even, like, contributing on it, like, a chemistry morale level. Like, he was, that's what, there's a huge part of his role in Boston, is he was, like, this folk hero, I'm going to play through it all.

We're so tough guy. and he is tough still, but watching him last night, I don't know how complicated Cleveland's defensive schemes are, and I don't really know how much they change in terms of verbiage from team to team. But he has no idea where he's supposed to stand. There's a couple of times where Orlando guys had corner threes and it's very obviously supposed to be like,

Isaiah, your only job is in case there's a skip pass to stand next to Fornier, and he's just like standing at the top of the key guarding error, nothing. Nothing. Can I say there's a couple other things I've got to point out. we've been sort of taking for granted that like J.R. Smith is useful and I've, because he's such a great character. He's been one of the worst players in the league all season. There was a one pick last night. He got he got picked like on a high screen. I swear to God,

he held onto the guy who was picking him so he didn't have to go through it. Yeah. Like it wasn't even that hard of a screen, but J.R. like wrapped his arms around the guy. So he was kind of like, oh no, I got I got destroyed on a pick. I guess somebody else has to switch on the ball handler. I was like, this is bullshit. No wonder you guys are getting destroyed. And also, it wasn't even that good of a magic team. There are guys who were playing real minutes last night. I was like, who are these fucking guys?

Joe Birch. Johnston Simmons on one leg, Shelvin Mack out there looking like John Stockton. It's insane. Fucking DJ Augustine tore them off on a pick and roll. I was like, who is this guy? It's DJ Augustine. Yeah, the, uh, I, would you trade Isaiah? Yes.

Because he's an expiring. I would trade everybody. So they have a couple moves, right? They have Chani Fries as an expiring, and Isaiah isn't expiring. That gets them up to $15 million. Tristan Thompson's three years left, the $18 million a year. Shumpurts $10 million this year and next year. Kevin loves $22.

There's some variety of something that they could at least roll the dice with without tying themselves up too much. The guy I would go after is Nick Baton. Because I think he's $22 a year for this year and then three after that. You could match that with some sort of combination of whatever that gives Charlotte a lot of salary cap relief. And then you have Nick Batum and your defense is better. And that's somebody else. Didn't they think that about Crowder though?

I mean, No, because Crowder was never that good. Kevin and I were trying to tell everybody that. Yeah. I don't know. I think Batum's like, he was a, did he make the All-Star team or was he a borderline all-star? I don't think he's ever made it.

Last year, two years ago. And he makes threes and he's got size. Yeah, but he's another guy who gets injured a lot. He's older. The shooting isn't there a lot of the time with him? I mean, I do like the idea of getting him as a throw in with Kemba. I think that's what I was thinking. Okay, cool.

Yeah, it's like if there's some monster massive trade where you take Batum's contract, you also get Kemba back, you put Fry and you put Isaiah's expiring in there, and then you make them basically take, I guess it would be Thompson or JR, one of those two. They'd have to eat some money, but they'd be getting out of $100 million of Batum. that's the kind of deal I think they should be thinking of you know, get a good player and a shitty contract that's of a good player back. There was a piece in the athletic, I think it was by,

was it, is it Varden? Jason Lloyd. That was basically just like, the LeBron and the front office are not communicating. You know, there is no discussion that Kobe Altman seems like a nice guy but is in over his head, that Gilbert is essentially still in charge of basketball decisions here.

You said it in the beginning of this segment. This is going to end so badly. They can't even fire Lou and bring in Fisdale to like pull a blat because why would Fisdale do that and get stuck in Cleveland when LeBron jets? I think from what I've heard, part of this is that first of all, LeBron knew about all the Kyrie trade stuff. He can play dome whatever he wants. But for them not to run that stuff by LeBron would be basketball suicide.

You're not going to trade his running mate, not tell him. So he gets shopped around. Kairie finds out. The whole thing falls apart. They realize they have to trade him. Kyrie's like, I'm never playing with that guy again. Now they're shopping them around. There's no trade.

Boston gets involved. Kyrie decides he wants to go to Boston. They shut everybody else out. This trade goes down. And then I think, I forget who it was, maybe Gilbert. Somebody was like, wait, how hard is Isaiah? And they were like, oh, Boston told us he'd probably be back around Christmas, January. Now there's this back and forth.

They tell LeBron about it. LeBron's like, we're trading for Isaiah and he might not play until the all-star break. What the fuck are you guys doing? We're getting a pickback? How does that help? We're getting Jay Crowder and a pickback? How does that help me this year?

And they go back and forth. They stare down Boston. All they get is a second round pick, and they blink and they make the trade. And I think from that point on, LeBron was like, if this motherfucker's hurt when he comes here, I'm never going to, you know.

And I think that's real. And I think that's part of the reason he's pissed It's because they told him Isaiah was going to, no, no, our doctor said he'll be back in January. And he comes back. He's got no legs. And he's not only not an asset, but he's one of the biggest liabilities in the league. And I think LeBron- And he's blowing up the locker room every day.

And I think LeBron's like, really? Really? And he wanted to get rid of Kevin Love, obviously, that whole summer. That got leaked out. And then I think there's some Gilbert LeBron stuff. And I think Gilbert's clearly like, fuck this guy. I got my title out of him. The one thing I would say about the Gilbert-Lebron stuff is that it's just where,

thinking about how much LeBron means to the area around, I don't mean this in a Ohio. Yeah, I don't, but I don't mean that emotionally. I mean, financially, Gilbert has a lot of interest in that downtown area where the queue is. And I think that it's in his best interest to try and keep the most popular NBA player of the last 20 years. Except he put the team for sale. Or did he? I mean, like, did he? Or did he? I don't know. Yeah. And which is why it's weird that they're kind of pearl clutching the Brooklyn pick. Because it seems like they are very much in next year mode. while ignoring the fact that they could still make this run go well and also profitable for everyone involved,

which is why I've been advocating for them to just go all in on this team. I don't think it works. I wouldn't do it. If I was a Cavs fan, I'd be pissed if they traded the Brooklyn pick. Well, I mean, that is a... Maybe a little bit better. You have to distinguish, though.

There's like a Cavs fan who's like, sure, like we can always rebuild with Isaiah, Kevin Love, and the Brooklyn pick. And that's not rebuilding. No, but they're not winning the title. Why am I giving that Brooklyn pick away unless I can win the title with the trade? There's no trade out there that they can

that can fix this. I would just say roll the dice with it just because I don't know with what though. Give me a player. I think DJ makes some sense in that team. For the Brooklyn pick?

At least to make it to another finals. You're giving yourself an opportunity to do it. Get George Hill in there. I like the Kamba deal that you used. Why didn't the George Hill deal happen? Because he's washed up and he makes 20 million a year

for the next three years. Yeah, next year. Tom, can we get another mic for Jason? Jason Concepcion joined us. We're going to talk about, yeah, his 24 hours of morning in a second. We're talking about the calves right now. Would you trade the Brooklyn pick?

No. To try to save this season. I am in the no way camp. No way. Unless LeBron says, I will stay, you do not trade that. It would be suicide. He's going to leave. You need to build for the future.

I don't care if it's not a lottery pick. You have to keep it. You have to hold on to it. What if LeBron says I'll stay? He says that and you believe him? Justin, what are the seller kept rules? Would they have to, would they have to, I don't, they can't extend them during the season. He would almost have to sign something like a legal document that says, but I don't even know if that's legal.

It almost have to be a handshake deal and he could still fuck them on it at the end. Right. A lot of these things with LeBron involve Gilbert and LeBron trusting each other. And they hate each other. Yeah, it's the whole issue to begin with. Yeah. So let's say DeAndre Jordan

and Avery Bradley for You have to take Tristan Thompson back I'm great Chaining fries expiring Of course the podcast also And the Chaining Fry podcast And the Brooklyn Pick

Does that save Cleveland season? Because I don't think it does I don't think it saves it but it stabilizes it By the way, they can't make that trade because Avery Bradley can't be combined with another point in the trade. So cross that one off, that's out. So DeAndre Jordan and Austin Rivers? I mean, that's a lateral, that's a lateral move at best. You know, like a lateral move at best.

I honestly struggle. What about Zach Lowe's idea of Aaron Gordon for the Brooklyn pick? Is that entice LeBron at all? LeBron, you know. Aaron Gordon, he's got a career winning percentage of two-eating. Any interest? But he's the type of guy they need. Like he's shooting a little bit better.

He's ranging on defense. I think he and LeBron would be a terror in the postseason on defense. Yeah, I think that is the least bad of the trade the Brooklyn pick options because at least then you get a young guy. Yeah, that's, you can build around. The entire thing here is, and this is just why this situation with LeBron, I don't know if it's unprecedented, but it definitely feels like we're living in a Black Mirror episode where it's like, how can you make that deal if you don't know if LeBron's coming back?

Even if it's just a one-year one-on-one. Like, you just, how can you make any? of these decisions if you don't know if the best player in basketball is or is not going to be on your team next year. Yeah. This is just like all of these conversations are moved. At least he said nothing and offered no guarantees whatsoever. Yeah.

And he actually signaled as if like it's like, I could never do that to my teammates. It's like granted, that's really nice of you. But why not say like, yeah, you know what? Like I don't really like the way this, like I can't make any promises about the summer. He says he's going to handle it every, every summer the same way. Look, I mean. It's weird because. I was kind of, not to compare myself, LeBron,

but in a little bit of a similar situation my last year at ESPN with Grantland. Remember, after I got suspended, and everybody's like, is he leaving? Is he staying? And I didn't know. And I kept trying to get the message across. Like, look, I don't know what's going to happen,

but we have a fucking awesome site. Let's keep going. And we all kind of stuck together, at least until like, and you didn't listen to me and Jason for Zadie Smith. Right. But I wasn't like, I wasn't saying, of people, guys, I don't know, man, I got to keep my options open. We'll see how this plays out. Who knows? I can't make a commitment. It doesn't seem like he's been that honest with anybody.

And he has the history now of ditching two franchises, which doesn't help either. He left them in 2010. He left Miami in 2014 pretty abruptly. Quite abruptly. So if you're on that team, you're like, all right, let's say you're Kevin Love, you know they tried to trade you last year. You know in 2016, if that Kyrie shot doesn't go in in game seven, Kevin Loves Ashes getting traded that summer. He knows that for a fact. Yes. So he's like, how can you trust anything?

If you're JR and Tristan Thompson, you're just, you're gone. If you're Isaiah Thomas, you're thinking about this $100 million contract you had that sailed away. If you're Jake Crowder, you hate life. Like, you can kind of see why this chemistry has gone down. They're like, this guy might leave and wear a mess. my defense of the trading everything and even including the Brooklyn pick is that it's an anti-half measure move either trade LeBron or go all in because by walking the middle line you're not saving anything they can't trade lebron they're no trade no I'm saying is like he should be able to wave it you should be

like get the hell out of here we're going in a different direction where would you trade them oh oh oh I love this question I advocated for Denver now oh you'd you'd have to trade a lot of the good guys that Denver has to get him but like let's say you're able to maintain Gary Harris, Paul Millsap, Big Lonzo, Nicola Yokic. Like, I really like that team. That could be interesting. And if you're Denver, like, you get the gate from the rest of the season, the playoff run. Like, maybe the Brown's like, oh, I'm a businessman.

I want to get into the pot industry. You can do that in California. King Edibles. Yeah. I think it would be fun. I'll tell you what. This for the first time in 18 hours, Jason's thinking about something other than I can see, like, there's a smile in his face finally.

Well, that was me thinking about Jeff Sessions, thinking about LeBron James getting into the medicinal process. I don't know. Denver's kind of interesting. I can't imagine it happening. I think LeBron at this point is like the Irish Catholic wife in the 50s and the bad marriage. It just has to play it out.

Yeah. Like you can't. Nobody in her neighborhoods gotten divorced. He can't be Machiavelli and an Irish Catholic housewife. He's wondering like, you can't be both things. And that's the thing that I think is been so interesting is that Isaiah has kind of filled the void of LeBron talking. Like, LeBron usually is the one who's like,

you guys are fitting out or I'm not, you know, like he's the one who probably was like, it's okay if you want to fire Blatt. I will not kick up a fuss. Isaiah is actually like filling a vacuum where LeBron used to be a lot more, you know, vocal about the direction of the team. He could come out and just be like,

the guys we have right now cannot win the finals. We need to make a change. And he's done that before. He's done that before. It's kind of unbelievable what Isaiah is doing, though. It would be like at the ringer, if we had a copy editor who was just putting up raw copy accidentally and writing pieces that got us in legal trouble. And he was like, guys, we can't be this sloppy.

This is your fault. Who, by the way, had just gotten here. Right. And it's been on sick leave for the last like three months. And it's never went anything. And then when they get in, they're like, here's the thing about me. I'm a bad copy editor and I'm a narcoleptic. So I'm not often awake.

Are you guys trying to tell me something? It's just a coincidence. He got there a while ago. Yeah, he is having, Jason, you do an NBA desktop, you do the spice section. Yeah. I think Isaiah's had some of the spiciest takes that have no real merit

or any sort of legs whatsoever. We've ever seen. Him saying, hey, you know, like teams I've been on, defense is measured by deflection. getting on the floor, getting steals. It's like, who's doing those things? Not you, my guy. Also, the one good team you've been on

because you're not good. Right. Yeah, the other team was... There was a two-month run when I was on Phoenix and we were awesome. The self-awareness is just like on another level. Actually, you know, we're obviously talking about it, but if you look at his tape,

you're like, this guy gets a mid-level exception. But if he keeps talking like this, maybe it gets just in people's heads where it's like, man, it sounds like, It sounds like that was such a shit show in Cleveland. Let's pay this guy. I don't think he gets that. Yeah, I don't know either.

I think with his physical condition and the way he's played this year, I don't think he gets more than like $4 or $5 million for one year. I can't imagine. Yeah. Like, until he shows he's healthy. What's put Jason to the test here? New York Knicks. Yes, thank you.

It's July 8th, Woshebomb, Nix and Isaiah Thomas in serious discussions. what would that contract look like? Let's assume Isaiah never gets better than what we're seeing right now. What would that contract look like for you not to be bummed out? It would like a minimum contract.

Like one year, two million. Yes. Because if he never gets better, yes. It would have to be an absolutely minimum contract. The legs might come back a little, but what I don't see coming back potentially is... Using the MLE on him would be freaking disastrous. The recklessness.

I have a hard time believing is going to come back. The way he used to go fly to the rim and just bounce off dudes. And I watched that dude for two nephews convinced he was going to break his wrist at any point. Every time he went in, it was like, oh God.

And he just, it never happened. He had this ability to kind of land almost like a running back. But now he's not playing that way anymore. And there was a piece today about this on Cleveland.com, so I'm not trying to steal the tape. You're plugging a lot of websites today. What if Isaiah is right?

What if a lot of what he's saying is right? I think he is right. What is just not the owner should be saying? What if He was not as good as Brad Stevens and doesn't make halftime adjustments? What if the defensive scheme could be calibrated to actually fit the talent that they have rather than this imaginary idea of whatever, you know,

pseudo-tibs help stuff that they're doing, like, be like, okay, we've got one guard who can't really run around that much. Let's figure out a way not to make him have to cover 25 feet of ground to get the corner shooter when he has to rotate. What if they don't make adjustments? Why are they still taking 23 threes and a half

when they're up by 20 points instead of grinding out possessions and limiting the amount of times that Orlando can take shots? Like, where is the... I mean, I know that Ty wasn't in the game last night, but there's still like a weird... They're playing as if they still are like JR, Kyle Corver, Channing Fry, Kevin Love surrounding the arc and shooting.

It's like, that's not this team anymore. I think the part of the problem is those names, those... those veteran names make all the money, have all the political cloud in the organization, and also don't play that hard. Like it's their second unit that grinds out defensive possessions and you can't play those guys without JR

and various other people throwing fits. So Ty Lou, who may not be a good coach, is also just not in a great position to really be pulling strings. I have a way to save this. So can we all agree that if LeBron goes to another level he could single-handly save this. He's been on worst teams.

Sure. He played, you know, he almost made the finals with Larry Hughes and Ben Wallace's corpse and Delante West. I mean, he's been on worst teams. And he did it earlier in the season, but I'm at the point, and I was at this point during the second half of the last game, is like, if he doesn't get his week to coast, if he doesn't get some plays off, I wonder if he's going to be able to be effective later in the season.

Well, this is how we fix it. So LeBron is all about LeBron empowerment, right? He's, he launches it. He doesn't launch a business with guys who've done it before. He does it with his buddies. The pop business, yeah. Maverick, the plate. The other blaze.

King Blaze. Maverick Carter runs his, uh, multimedia side, shall we call it. Be generous. Rich Paul runs the agency. Right. So he's got another friend, Randy. What if Randy becomes the coach?

Ooh. Randy takes over for Ty Lou. It's literally they're like, like this is LeBron's buddy. And LeBron's like, I got to prove I can make any coach work. It's my buddy Randy and just goes all in. Or maybe it's somebody else that LeBron likes. Yeah, I mean, he already handpicked Ty Loo and forced out David Blatt.

So, poor David Blatt. He might as well just go 100% in the way. Big winner out of this whole thing, David Blatt. Is he really? I mean, where is he coaching in Turkey right now? I've just trying to make him feel better. It was like when I texted you last night about it. At least you have a lottery pick, maybe.

Well, listen, I really hope we better have that lottery pick. The fact that Jared, this is, I'm getting ahead of it. All right, hold that. So we don't think there's a major trade to save the calves. No. We don't see any situation where this team becomes happier. And I didn't even, I had a little spice take for you. That's right.

From what I'm hearing, sources say. Duane Wade's clubhouse lawyerdom has not helped, not help matters. In what way? It's a little bit of a clubhouse lawyer. So like he instigates shit? He stirs stuff up. I don't know if he's instigating. I don't think he's somebody you want on the boat when it's going down.

Especially at this point in his career. I mean, for this from a couple people. Like, it's funny how these Dwayne Wade teams always seem to degenerate into a complete locker room debacle. Hmm. This has now happened three times in four years.

To your and then Jason point earlier, like, who are the role players on this team? Who are like the chemistry guys on this team? It's a bunch of older, past their prime guys who still kind of behave like superstars. And that's like one of Isaiah's problems right now is like he's still trying to play like peak Isaiah and he's not that guy. Dwayne Wade might still be a think like I'm Dwayne. Yeah, exactly. But he's not. Also, if you're J.R. Amon, Tristan, Channing, you're like, everything was all good.

We went to three straight finals. Why did we switch it up? I took my shirt off. Like, what's the problem? We are high on iTunes rankings. Yeah. And now it's Derek Rose, Dwayne Wade, Isaiah Thomas, all these random guys in here, all of whom were probably like, I was. the star X years ago on my team.

This is how I wanted things to go. We should practice. We shouldn't practice. Thompson's the one guy I would trade for if I had space. Because he's young and he's done it. And I think the reasons he's not doing it right now really have nothing to do with whether he's talented or not. You don't believe in the Kardashian curse?

I think if the, put it this way, if the Clippers flip D'Andre for Thompson and that Brooklyn pick, which I think they should do in five seconds. And he was in L.A. where the Kardashians are and his girlfriend was here. And he was just happy. And I actually think he would play well. I think that's a good bet. And if the bet fails,

you have next year's contract the year after. You were way over the cap anyway with Gowaneri. Yeah. I mean, I would do that if the Brooklyn pick was in it. Harold's been good and he would play a similar role for the Clippers, for instance. If you get a pick with them,

I'd say bring him long. This is it, though. Like, I mean, like, I was pretty bullish about them a little earlier in the season. I was like, you know, like they can always flip it. They've only really been good this season playing against bad teams

in that one run they had. Well, they're six and 13. That's as bad of a streak, I think, that I can ever remember a team that made the finals having. They're not just six and 13 because of some bad bounces. Yeah, they're getting murdered. They're getting destroyed. Did you notice they had a point differential that's worse than,

it's actually negative? The post-Christmas numbers are, they're like 0.6 for the year. They're a lottery team after Christmas. and they may end up being a lottery team. I was looking at ESPN's playoff, Oz, and they projected them to have the same amount of wins as the Sixers and Bucks. So congratulations, Chris.

All right, let's quickly audible to... Should we start Danny Boy playing in the background? What was yesterday's date? January 7th? No, 6th. Yesterday was January 6th? The tragic events of 1-6. Were you watching?

I was watching. I had switched over to another game. I switched over to Raps Celtics, and then it came across the slack. Chris steps down and it looks bad. And the slack doesn't usually overreact. Yeah, whenever you hear it looks bad. That's a chill went down my body. I switched over to the Knicks game, the Nix feed.

And it was this weird thing where, you know, they were at commercial. So you were getting the in arena feed of just like players milling around. And I was like, what? give me the replay, replay, replay. And then when I replay finally came up, it looked like a like an ankle because his foot wobbled. That's what I thought too. But he held the knee after.

But then he held the knee. And that's when I got scared. And, you know, it's absolutely devastating. Carlin Colker, his 52-year-old muscle-bound physician who is totally on the up and up. What are you doing, my guy? Like, time to get to work. Now is the time to earn that money. Let's bring him back stronger than.

ever. You know, Zach Levine just came back from an ACL looks good. So Chris Saps is a young guy. I'm hopeful. You don't have any kids, right? No. You do have a dog. I do. How old are your dog? Seven. What's the biggest scare you've had with your dog? He bit into a electric wire once and electrocuted himself. Where would you rank that against the tragic events of one six? It would not even in the same galaxy. This is sad. I mean, it's really sad. And also, you know, it's hard to not think about the difficulties that guys of that size face with injuries that occur below the waist.

We talked about that before you came on. The seven foot three guys end up. It's tough. It's a 90% this is bad rate. I will say that I would be more scared if it was the foot. And also this, as an aside, this is why I don't, he needs to get stronger, obviously. I hope he doesn't put on weight. To me, that's the thing that did in Yao Ming is when he started to get bulky and big.

And Sean Bradley. And Sean Bradley. When they started to get big and put on that weight because, you know, they need to be more muscular, that's when they really started to break down. He needs to stay, get more lean, but basically stay at the weight he's at. We were saying earlier that I do think, I think all of us think he needs to refine his game a little bit so it's not as risky. And maybe study Rick Smith's tapes for the next 10, 11 months about really staying on the

low post, kind of picking your spots. You were always on the, he should never play more than 28 to 30 minutes a game. He should never be over 2,000 minutes for a season, all that stuff, which of course they didn't listen to you. Pump the brakes on him. And, you know, like some of his play style also, just the way he, those rim runs that he does when he, you know, the one-handed dunks where he's. lands on the one leg.

Or he's going into the cameraman and all that stuff. If he could just tone the recklessness down a little bit, maybe hang on the rim a little bit when he's coming down, that would be great. I don't mean to bum you out, but... Great. I'm going to bum you out. Well, I think poorly run teams,

stuff like this is a little more prone to happen to. So you look at a team like New Orleans. Boogie goes down with an Achilles and it's a fluke. Also, not really a fluke because he was playing crazy minutes for a big guy. Right. The league is different. I think, I'm still waiting to read the right piece about this, but I'm convinced, like,

man, just watch the games from the 80s. Those guys were not running like this in the 80s. Big guys were not running like this. People were jumping out on shooters 40 times a game. And I think the more poorly run teams really put their guys in jeopardy. And with something like Porzengis, like we always wonder, why isn't Frankie Smoke's playing more? Why is Porzingis playing in the 30s in these games?

Because Hornacek is trying not to get fired. Exactly. Whereas you take a team like the Celtics, not to bring up my beloved Celtics, but they have this London game and they have this terrible schedule and they have all these games before this London game to make up for the fact that they're not going to have games after. And they're sitting Kyrie. And he looks at he's like Kyrie's playing 32 minutes a game.

That's it. I don't care if my second unit gets killed. We're benching, oh, this guy's a little banged up. He's not playing today. And we just careful about it. And the reason he gets to be careful about that is because he's, He's got a GM and he's got owners. And they all make this decision collectively.

Then you look at the Knicks or a fucking train wreck. Yeah. Who is having that conversation to say, hey man, should we really be playing Porzingis 42 minutes and so-and-so game? Why don't we just bench him on a back-to-back and try her name? If the Knicks went three in a row,

that places like a house on fire. Like they go out of their minds for the next. That's part of the problem is the team gets addicted to those short-term wins, It's just little sugar, sugar bumps of three, two, three wins in five games, three wins in a row. The house is rocking and all of a sudden the tabloids are like the Knicks. Here they come. Here they come. He just can'tter.

Sneaking into the guys. Is he one of the best Knicks teammates that's ever been? You know, like Tim Hardaway Jr. finally putting it together. And the team gets sucked into that. It's happened again and again. And it's really hard to rebuild in that town simply because. they've never had the execs in the front office that's been able to tune out, like all that noise and just be like, okay, we're going to bear down and just rebuild,

play the young guys, develop them. Yeah, the fact that Frankie Smokes is not playing 30 minutes a game is crazy. Why is Jared Jack on the floor this much? It doesn't make any sense. Isaiah is going to be great future. I mean, maybe it happens now. And of course, it's like, you know, great timing to trade Billy Hernan Gomez 12 hours later when a slot opens up to see what he can really do.

I think they call him Billy. This is what his name. Yeah, no one can really determine what it actually is, but I guess Billy means Willie in Spanish or something. As I understand it, his, I think his mother is German and something, something or other, they pronounce the W as a B. I don't, this is, what they said is on next and say. Let's hear it. Cantor. Okay, great.

Comes off next year. Yeah. Kyle O'Quinn comes off next year, who I think we all like. I like kind of an underrated bench guy. Courtney Lee. Okay. You take him back. Kevin Love and you're taking back IMA and some money.

You might even take Isaiah Thomas in the trade too. You're basically taking as much money as you can possibly take for this year. Just to get off all that money. To get some role players, to cut their luxury tax down by whatever, and to basically start the bridge to start over. So LeBron definitely bounces. I think they think he's bouncing in it. Like was happening in Miami at the end of Miami.

But you could argue they're a better team with that trade. If you turn Kevin Love who's not. playing into Canter for a year. Who did this to you guys? O'Quinn and Courtney Lee. Canter and LeBron would be fantastic. Just forcing LeBron to play with Cancer for the rest of the years, like the ultimate shade move.

Can you imagine? LeBron comes in. It's like Cantor and O'Quinn are like, let's do it, Chief. The thing about Cantor is, like, if you're on a team that's trying to develop young guys and maybe win 43 to 45 games, canter is your guy. I think he's been a number.

Double-double machine, offensive rebounding savant. Fights. You will support you. You can put up numbers. Split lip. He's playing with stitches in his lip. But if you're a team like with aspirations, his weaknesses can be exposed again and again and again.

You know, just like doesn't rotate. Not a defender. That trade product doesn't work. I'm just trying to make you feel better. Yeah, I just think if you have aspirations, Enos Cantor is not your guy. If you're trying to win 42 games, great. The Knicks are my dream scenario.

for Kevin Love because I think him and Porzingis actually makes sense in my head, the geometry of it, of having a stretch five with a guy who can't protect the rim, but should be around the rim. And unless he's playing with a stretch five, I'm not sure Kevin Love makes sense in the NBA we're watching these days. Yeah. I still like the fit with Anthony Davis. I mean, if the Marcus didn't get hurt, that would have made a lot of sense for both sides. Are we sure they're not going to trade that boogie contract for something?

That's the one thing I haven't seen floated out there, but he makes like almost 20. I feel like that's just like the perfect like, hey, we were doing so good with Boogie. Let's just try this again in a year. You know, let's try that. What does that look like? I mean, you can't give him a max extension when he's, that Achilles thing is worse than any other injury you can have.

I think he and AD get along really well. They have the Kentucky thing going on. So I wonder like how much they need to appease AD versus like what else can they get for Boogie? Like can you get like half of his value even if he's like 10% diminished? I don't know. They're in a tough spot. Yeah.

They've been in a tough spot for quite a while. It's a shame because they were really growing on me as a sleep. I was watching them and going, ooh. Yeah. It's like so many teams sort of play the same way right now to watch them. It was kind of exciting. Just like the high, low stuff that they were doing. That's really awesome.

That Rockets win was probably their best that I had seen in the past three years just because of what it meant and what it foretold for like their future in the playoffs. They beat the Rockets and Boston. And I think they almost be cold state. Yeah. It's like four or five or something. But his playmaking was a revelation. It was really great.

Yeah. One thing we should mention, well, two things we should mention. One is that the standings right now, it's really not that hard for the Knicks to drop. Right now they're at 23 wins. Lakers at 22 and playing fantastic. Brooklyn's at 19. Nothing to tank for. They'll keep going.

So now you're looking at Memphis at 18 wins. And under them, Chicago, Phoenix, Sacramento, Orlando, Atlanta, Dallas. All between 17 and 18 wins. The Knicks could go into the top four pretty easily if they wanted it. So that's one thing. The other thing is I'm looking at the conference in the East. Cleveland's at 30 wins. Miami's in the 7 seed at 29 wins.

Cleveland could drop to 7 if they lose two more games. Your 7 and 8 seeds heading into the playoffs really realistically, the best bet, are going to be Cleveland and Philly and New York. maybe to trade, two of those three. All three teams, I don't want to play in round one, by the way, if I'm the Boston Celtics. I don't want to see LeBron in round one. I don't want to see Joelle and Bede with rest between games in round one.

And I'm not sure I want to see Blake Griffin and Andre German in round one. I don't want to see any of those teams. I decided to get that off my chest. I don't think the pistons will make it. So there's one you can scratch. Really? No, I don't believe in them. I just think like the heat are just like they have too much of a machine going on.

I love the Pacers. I think Irmafs, Chris, I think Philly's the weak link out of those because of the MBE. Because of the Embed thing. Are we sure Embed's going to play 30 more games? The safest bet would be him getting hurt in Philly not making it.

Have you seen Fultz dunking in practice recently? Did that happen? Yeah. Maybe he doesn't need to shoot. It's the year of Chris. Maybe two of the starting five don't need to shoot. Did you see Fultz taking that over the head like half court shot?

What if he just takes those? Yeah, over the head, half court. Ford shots and dunks. That's the new NBA. Here's how you fix Fultz. You bring Nick Foles over to him and Nick Foles says, Markell, I love you.

I love all you guys. Let's run the Philly special. And Fultz's career magically turns around. Nick Folles is like, do you believe in God, Marquil? Do you have a savior? I think maybe Nick Foles is the savior

for him. All right. Do we see Fultz this season? Yes. Yes. Who plays more games this season? Fultz or Porzingis? No, Porzengis.

No, right, after the Oster break. Oh, oh, not in total? Fultz is going to play. Fultz. He's going to play. So 0.5 games, you're betting the over on Markelle Fultz. Yes. Are we kind of in the G League?

No, G league. They won't do that to him. That would destroy him. Okay, more over under 15 games for Markell Fultz. This year? I'm going to say over. From now. I'm going to bang the under on that one.

Over? All right. How about this? Over under seven games. If it goes over, I owe you dinner, and if it goes under, you owe me dinner. Sure.

I'll take that bet. How many games he's going to play? This season. Oh, I'll take that bet. Seven. Yeah. Over seven? Has to play eight games this year.

Yeah, I got it. I understand. You got over. Yeah. There's 30 games left. I got you. I think he's. He's coming back.

He is ridden it. It's almost Easter. I got to tell you. A rational confidence, Eagles just won the Super Bowl. Anything is possible. We did the Eagles won the Super Bowl. We did the Miami Vice rewatchables and that Fultz is coming back. It's all coming.

Chris. We'll wait for Chris. Jason, I'm sorry about the tragic events of 1-6. It's brutal, but, you know, hopefully we get a top pick now. Justin, thank you. Chris Ryan, thank you. Thank you. Nephew, Kyle.

Thank you. Ring our NBA show coming back to Mar. Trade Deadline Show. Be ready for that. Be ready for the BS podcast. Also tomorrow, post-trade deadline, unless nothing happens. And then I might just do it on Friday. Don't forget to check out the ringer.com. We have a lot of good trade deadline, NBA stuff coming. I have a column coming on Friday. And that's it. Thanks for listening.