The Ringer NBA Show - The Griffin Trade With Bill Simmons, Justin Verrier, and Chris Ryan (Emergency Edition) | The Ringer NBA Show (Ep. 200)

Episode Date: January 30, 2018

HBO and The Ringer's Bill Simmons, Chris Ryan, and Justin Verrier discuss the Clippers trading Blake Griffin to the Pistons in an emergency edition of 'The Ringer NBA Show.' Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's very special emergency trade edition of the Ringer NBA show on the Ringer podcast network is presented by ZipRecruiter, the official 2018 presenting sponsor of the Bill Simmons podcast. What if a point guard made 80% of his threes? What if Jerry West got 80% of his trades right? Well, now when you're hiring, you can play at that level because 80% of employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site in just one day. their powerful technology learns what you're looking for identifies people with the right experience invites them to apply to your job zip recruiter scouts talent for you my listeners can try it for free at ziprecruiter.com slash BS the smartest way to hire and uh my podcast I had cousin Sal and jk

Simmons on today I'm also going to be on against all odds with cousin Sal doing super bowl props and nephew Kyle's making me go on house of carbs too for a super bowl he's eating cream You? It's a lot of me. It's just a lot of me. Chris Ryan's here. Justin Vair's here. Are you overextended? I feel overextended. I feel I feel used and abused. Coming up. The Blake trade. Wow. It finally happened. Here we go. Justin Verre, Chris Ryan. You got your tattoos showing. You love trades. I'm feeling very Detroit today. We have COCs writing about that. How many people do we have writing, Justin? At least two. Yeah, all right. It's what time is it four o'clock?

Pacific Coast time on a Wednesday. We first started hearing rumors about this. from young KOC this morning who was checking it out and couldn't get, couldn't get, he knew something was up. Yeah. He smelled something cooking. Chris, your reaction. No more Blake Griffin on the clips. Let's start there.

I think he's going to be miserable by all accounts. I just think Blake is the quintessential L.A. athlete where being in Los Angeles is 75% of what makes him happy anyway. I mean, he just doubled down and signed up for 150 million? After this huge, you know, Zach was just tweeting about this, but Zach was just tweeting about this, but Zach Loh had a piece where they did this maze for him inside of Staples. Oh, yeah. And he was like walking through a This is Your Life maze only to end up on the Staples Center

court to see his number retired in a mock ceremony to show the Clippers commitment to him. But is it my imagination or is he going back to Lobb City? Yeah, it is a little... Reggie Jackson is Chris Paul. Andre Drummond is D'Andre Jordan. And he's, I don't know. I mean, like, I don't think that this is a real like... sell the farm for the for the pistons, but I kind of like it for Blake.

Yeah, only Stan Van Gundy would look at the Clipper situation, be like, I want that. Yes. This is what I want from my own future, because that's basically what they're doing. I mean, they're importing the kind of cornerstone of a bad team into an already bad situation, even have Reggie Bullock, who was a failed shooting guard for the previous Clippers regime. Not a good sign. Can we walk back to Chris Ryan comparing Chris Paul and Reggie Jackson?

Pretty much the same guy. Does that happen? I just mean in terms of like the way they're drug test. They're forming this starting lineup. It is very much in the mold of Lob City, which we always wondered if Lob City have been in the east, would they have gotten to the finals? Would they have got at least to the Eastern Conference finals if that Clippers team had been playing the Eastern Conference?

Here's the problem with Lob City. Have you watched Blake Griffin play basketball this year? No, it's more grounded city. It's not really Lob City. It's more like barely above the ground city and angry and everybody's against me, city. Listen, we've had this trade just happened. We've had 10 minutes to digest it. Blake went from Los Angeles where he loves, where he just resigned, to now he's in the Eastern Conference playing for this kind of, is mediocre too kind for the Pistons?

Probably, considering Reggie hasn't even been playing lately. Below average Pistons team, slightly below average. The only positive I could think of is this is closer to the Montreal Comedy Festival. It's a closer trip, right? That's true. He's going to save, it's like two. hours each way. Got some casinos there he could play. The LA scene was too popular for him.

He needs to start and he, like on the ground floor, really put his reps in that way to earn his title. All great comedians pay their dues. This is the Detroit comedy scene is rough. It's rough and tumble. Maybe this is what he needed, though. If he was ever going to reach his potential, I just don't feel like it was going to happen here.

And I went to the game two weeks ago with Houston that led to all the tunnel stuff and three days of contact. And the vibe is just weird. Everybody's against Blake. I think the fans are tired of kind of watching him be the Daniel Luhroso of the NBA. 35-year pop culture joke, but that's mine. He did need a fresh start. Sure.

I just wonder what's left. He's had six surgeries, seven? All lower body, too. Physically, he does not seem like the same guy. KOC has been talking about it on every ring or platform about just, the amount of damage in wear and tear in his body, which leads me to think, wow, somebody would have to be pretty desperate

to give up a lot for this guy. Who's more desperate than Stan Van Gundy right now? Absolutely no one. And we make the joke about the clippers kind of, or the Pistons importing just what the clipper's situation is. But we've been talking about the past few weeks that the way to really unlock Blake might be to get rid of DJ. So we're saying, yeah, he needs a fresh start,

but what he really needs is to get rid of a traditional center next to. to him because perhaps not all the time, but most of the time he might be unleashed as kind of a point five. As Draymond. Yeah, it's Draymond, essentially. And you want someone to protect him defensively, but just putting him into the same situation, I don't think that's really going to change much for him or the Pistons. But Bill, you bring up an interesting point because I think one of the other stories about

this trade that's going to be interesting to see how it gets played by both teams, how gets spun, and also how we analyze it, is was this an Arndellum and Jerry West deal, or was this a Doc Rivers and Stan Van Gundy deal? So, like, did Doc Rivers just find out about this on the back nine? I think, I think Jerry West has been running this team since they made that Chris Paul trade, right?

Yeah. That was a very non-Dock Rivers trade. There was thought and energy put into the assets that came back, and Doc would have, you know, tried to just get another superstar back who's somebody who had a good... Trade Chris Paul to Greece for Big Baby Davis.

I mean, Doc's GM strategy for three straight years was just acquiring people who played well against the Celtics or clippers, as we've talked about a million times. I don't think he has the ingenuity to make that Chris Paul trade. Jerry West now has obviously has one Steve Ballmer over and made it very clear to him, like, you have to get rid of this guy now. This contract is a disaster. If this guy gets hurt one more time, we are crippled for the next five years. So was West not a part of the sales pitch to keep Blake here in the first place? It was a smart sales pitch because it was basically like you lose the asset, he's gone if you don't keep them, you know? You could see the signs.

I would do that contract again. You could see the signs this summer when they brought in two pretty highly regarded front office executives to really round out the rest of that unit there. And you've seen the product on the floor this season. Just guys like Tyrone Wallace, some of these other guys that have come in and played meaningful minutes, you've effectively allowed Doc or forced Doc to play and develop some young guys. And they've looked better as a result of it. I was watching the game yesterday, the Pelicans game. Tyrone Wallace was putting in work mostly because he was taking advantage of some of the opportunities provided by Blake and DJ kind of occupying attention. And so I sit here and I'm thinking to myself, I think this is a great trade for the Clippers.

I couldn't agree more. Especially if a DJ trade comes next. Right. And there was already reporting from Woj that DJ Lou Williams could be next on the block. Yeah. I would keep Lou Williams. I don't think anyone has cap space. If you keep Lou Williams, where can I gamble on like Lou Williams?

on like Lou Williams's point total for the end of the year to take to take the highest possible that I could. Oh like he would just yeah I mean he could be average 38 a day night I still like him on the calves I think both as a package deal to the calves if the calves really want to blow it up which is what I've been advocating for get George Hill in there get DJ and the Williams and just play for this season get rid of pretty much everybody I think it makes a lot of sense there you want DJ more than Lou Williams because you need the defense but I think both can have a meaningful effect on that team. I think both Blake and DeAndre were severely overrated. So what about on the Detroit side? Is this a last gas for relevance? Is this we're never?

Yeah, this is exactly who you want to make a trade with is the team run by the guy who in a year is going to get fired unless there's a dramatic change to everything that's happening to him. This is basketball trading 101. Find the most desperate guy and trade with them. Serge Abaka in Orlando is a great example of this, right? Presti's looking around. He sees his buddy Rob Henigan, who's basically drowning. Not quite underwater yet, but he's flailing and he's asking like for help. And he has to make this home run move. So what does he do? He trades the rights to Subonis and Oladipo for Sir Jabaka, which was a bad trade when it happened. Yeah. And now seems a hundred times worse. But then also spends all this money on Beambo, ties up their cap. He doesn't

care because if it doesn't work, he's gone. Right. And that's the thing. This happens. over and Brian Colangelo did in Toronto. We've seen this is bad GM 101 is I'm out of here in a year. I got to take a swing. I got to make a miracle happen. Blake is a miracle. I just, I saw him playing in person two weeks ago and he seemed to me like a guy who

athletically was at a different point in his career. I was saying in our slack that he reminded me of LJ in 1999, which was both a compliment and an insult. But how old are you, Justin? 27. All right. 30. So you.

I don't know. I'm not at a bar. I'm not hitting it. Yeah. Just like I'm 27. I was thinking of a player's edge. So you remember Larry Johnson, Nick's Larry Johnson, but not UNLV Larry Johnson as much. I remember Hornets, Larry Johnson. Okay. So UNLV. Larry Johnson was peak athletic Larry Johnson. Hornets Larry Johnson for like two years was way, way up there. And then by the time he got to the Knicks, he was this kind of crafty below the rim guy. And he reinvented himself. And I see the seeds. that happening with Blake. His instinct now is not to dunk over people like it was. It's to do these little thing. He had a big game in that Rockets game I went to, but it wasn't a good game. And they really had to go out of their way to get him involved. And now I think like if you watch the Pistons this year, Drummond's at the foul line most of the time, right? They like to run things at

the top of them and kind of use him. And then sometimes so good I'll know, but Blake is better at the foul line too. And I don't see how those guys play together. I also always felt like with Blake, I mean, despite the fact that I have a lot of respect for how he's adjusted his game as his body has changed for the worst and he's turned into more of a playmaker who can play at the top of the key and kind of run an offense and still be a threat to drive and actually has a great jumper. I still think that you can take Blake out of a game mentally. You can just you can just really easily get under Blake's skin and and yeah, maybe you get like an FU Blake game, but nine times out of ten you're going to get a Blake screaming at refs, Blake getting distracted, Blake getting into it with. guys underneath the rim, and you kind of have them where you want him. He's exhausting to watch. And he's like, by the way, one of the many reasons why I'd have Quipper's season tickets

and haven't gone to that many games the last couple years, because between him and Chris Paul, who's now gone, as you said, exhausting. It's just not fun. Chris got a lot of the blame for that. Blake was in there, too. Blake was definitely a part of that. And like, everything you hear coming out of the team is they kind of embrace this scrappy image that they were fine being the underdogs.

They liked kind of the collection of guys they had. but I look around and I say, how long is that going to last when Blake just wears on guys? It's not just Chris. It happened to a lot of guys. So I just looked up as we were talking Blake's game log, the last seven games he played. So just the last seven,

24 points a game, nine rebounds a game, almost six assists a game. And he played 36 minutes a game. This is, to me, a classic example of Jerry West, like, no, not yet, not yet. And then they played another. home game bomber's like now and it's like no it's like hot for October it's like one more it's like

one more and then he's like no yeah the Michael Carter Williams yeah this is he's he looked healthy he's got stats they're checking Van Gundy's making a trade like this he's checking with the Pistons owner right that guy's like got a son say hey can you check Blake's game logs for me is he all right so oh it's 24 and 10 and five assists yeah well speak calls it in speaking the Pistons owner I wonder how much building that new arena downtown or moving downtown affected their desire to just have to have a product to sell to fans. Right. Well, you look at the Clippers, right?

They're asking for season ticket money last April. At that point, we all think Chris Paul and Blake Griffin are coming back. A lot of people didn't renew, I think. Not like thousands, but some. And then it goes into the summer. And then it's like, oh, Blake Griffin, hey, he's back. Oh, yeah. And we got the Gallinary, too.

We're new Clippers. But now we're looking at next year, I think would have been really tough for them. with season tickets because it's so easy to get money in the secondary market. Now you can sell this whole Jerry Wist. He's the wizard. Lifelong Clippers fan Paul George coming home. I mean, look at the cap. They have this cap space.

Here's the thing the Clippers don't have cap space now? Not if DeAndre opts back in. No, but I mean, you imagine they're going to clear decks if you're going to get rid of Blake. I have to assume that this is made with the intention of then trading DeAndre. Even if it's for like for like a weird, like that weird Hassan White Side rumor that's been flying around, I just have a feeling like this is the end of this era. But Tobias Harris is, he's on the books for next year. At a decent number.

16? Yeah, sure. I'll take that, right? So 16 for him, 21 for Gallinary. And then 12 for Austin Rivers. Yeah, he has a player option for next year. And then I think every Beverly, I think, is he next year? I think he has one more year, yeah.

Teasosich maybe hasn't been a year right. Our listeners, I apologize. We're doing this on the fly. But they have to have enough room probably for Paul George. They could probably rig that. Sure. And I just mean the thing that LA has that Detroit doesn't have is no matter how bad the clippers got, they would still be able to somewhat present themselves as a free agency destination.

It's just that simple. They have had a decade of being competitive. And I think that whether or not Docs the coach next year, you could still go to someone and be like, become the face of a Los Angeles franchise moving forward. And if Paul Georges has to decide between being the third or fourth or fifth seat in, Oklahoma or the third or fourth or fifth seat in Los Angeles, he's probably going to pick Los Angeles. Yeah, I mean, you look at the past couple of years.

Would you say the Clippers were maybe like the fifth or six most important franchise over the past couple of years of the Paul Blake dynasty or kind of one way? In L.A.? Well, just in general, in the league at large. They were always in the playoff contention. They were always kind of up there in the rankings. They were most marketable. I would agree.

For sure, but they never really made an impact in the L.A. market. And in order to do so, in order to kind of break through this kind of stranglehold the Lakers have over this market. And just the national one as well, I think they have to have something significant. And that's what they never had with Kristen Blake. Let's hit that point a second time. Not only did they not make an impact in L.A., but they had this four-year stretch when Kobe had basically, he hurts his Achilles, comes back. They're crippled by his contract.

They're basically running the process. And the clips are a contender. The clips beat the spurs in a playoff series. If they're a real team, nobody in LAC cared. They didn't. They care about the Lakers. You have Dodger games, like the Clips, they have that little game where it's like, you know, they ask people on the Dodgers, are you a clipper fan or a Laker fan? If they pick the clippers, everybody booze.

That's a real thing. Sure, but I think that that, let me just stand up a little bit for Lob City. And when I moved here, when that was really popping off, I like this, do it. I feel like that was one of them. bigger pre-Warriors, like hype trains in the NBA that I've seen in a long time, where you really had a style of play that went along with almost a brand and that there was a real feeling of like exciting basketball in that building. And I was, I went to a couple of those Memphis's series where Zeebo tore their hearts out. And it was definitely a little bit more like going to like a circus

than it was necessarily people going to, like people were curious more than they were passionate. But I felt like that there was a decent crowd there for the Clippers. And we see kids, like, there are kids who are like, we think it's a joke. But like guys like Isaac Lee who works here at the ringer who's pretty young. We think it's a joke that Isaac Lee loves the quippers. Yeah, but like I think that there are kids who are 17 when Lobb City was a thing who were like 22 now. You know what I mean? Here's my counter.

Miss the window. It's over. Lakers are cool again. LeBron's coming. Yeah. They're done. Yeah. Clippers had a moment, but I don't know if they had staying power.

It was a dalliance. It was an affair. I believe in Jerry West. And I have a feeling, I wonder whether or not he's not thinking five or six steps ahead here, right? Oh, I think he's thinking 13 steps ahead. So maybe he knows something about how the summer is going to turn out. I had the salaries for you. Boban, who's in this trade who we haven't mentioned yet, as we're one of the big winners.

We have Boban in L.A. Yeah, can't wait. Who are you excited in the future to? Oh, definitely. Who gets Bobin? Definitely. Gons. You could have them.

Gons? Yeah. All right. He makes $7 million next year. Tobias Harris makes 14.8 last year of his contract. Next year's last year? Next year's last year. So it actually goes backwards.

So that's a 21 million commitment. Bradley comes off and they get the first round pick. Blake next year, better hold on in your seats for this one. Blake next year. Oh, 31.8 million. Jesus. That's a lot. Here's the rest of Blake's contract.

They're going to put Jerry West's face on a wanted poster, man. Did I say that Detroit came out okay on this? Here we go. This is a podcast. It's not live. We can take that out. We're going to take out the part where I thought I was 27 too, so it's fine. No, that's staying going.

That's definitely, Kyle. Do you take that out? You're dead. 31.9 next year. You're after that 34.2. Next year, 36.6. And then a player optioned in 2021 for 38.957. I don't think he's going to opt out of that one.

Just a guess. I think this is... He's going to be opting in from the Montreal Comedy Festival stage. That's going to be his bit. It's like guys. He's going to, who is it, Bobby Bonilla? He's still getting paid by the Mets.

He's got like the NBA Players Association app on his phone. He's like, check this out. I just made $40 million. This reminds me a lot of the Amari Stadermeyer signing that the Nix did in 2000, after the 2010 season, where it looks great initially. And I wouldn't be surprised. And it's like, no, no, he's an MVP in it.

Like, you couldn't you see Blake? Oh, Blake. Wow. Pistons. Oh, he's, he's saying, but I don't want this contract. That East is soft in the middle. You know what I mean? You've got the Wizards, you got the Bucks, all having issues.

The Pacers feel like they're going to run out of gas. The Sixers are, who knows what the Sixers are, depending on who's healthy and who's not. So I'm sure that, like, you're saying, where Stan's like, I have 18 months to save my job, maybe. He's probably thinking this is a soft East. We could be a four or five seat if this clicks. I would say he's eight. I would say he has seven to eight months. Seven to eight months.

You don't think he gets to draft? Well, he doesn't have a pick anyway now. He doesn't matter. Everything he's done hasn't worked out, basically. What's worked out that he's done? Yeah, I can't think of a single move that's worked. And this offseason was even more befuddling. I think they hard-capped themselves in order to bring in Langston Galloway,

who's a totally fine bench player, but what are you doing? Totally fine, strong. That's my guy. Let me tell you this. If you ever, Chris Ryan, if you ever did the equivalent of taking Luke Kinnard over Donovan Mitchell, I would remind you every day of this for the rest of the time we work together. I'd be so upset. Be like, hey, remember when we could have Donovan Mitchell?

That alone was an almost fireable offense for SVG. And that was one of the 10 mistakes he's made. He really, once again, and we see it, man. It's really hard to coach and GM at the same time. He did a bad job. Doc did a bad job. Yeah. Henry Ellenson, I think, was a pick a few years ago.

A lot of the drafting. That was rough. The drafting's been not great. It's just not great. The Tobias Harris trade was pretty good. I think that was the one decent one that he did. Yeah, they kind of took advantage of the magic, believe it or not for.

How many games is Reggie played this year? It wasn't that many. I think only 20-30-ish. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but that's another one where they essentially needed something right away. They saw the distressed asset in Oklahoma City and went with them moving forward. But most of the time,

Ishes had a better effect on that team than Reggie simply because he's getting a lot of those guys involved there. Stanley Johnson, another draft pick. I don't know if there's anybody after him because the big thing at that point was Stanley or Justice, right? and I don't think anybody won that situation that might actually stay toward Stanley but they've really just

settled into the middle there and I think you could do a little bit in the middle in the east where nobody's really going for it. No one's really separating themselves but the Stanley one's tough because that was a really good draft. It was a good draft yeah. Isn't that the Frank Kaminsky draft? Yeah. That's 2015 right? It's a lot of good

that draft went all over the place but and probably somebody's going to steal Stanley Johnson from them now right that'll be the next thing that happens. He's only 21 years old. I have no idea. Are they trying to wait? I mean, like, are the Piston selling players? Are they buying players? I still liked Stanley. Yeah. I think he's uptime. I would trade for, I like him and Justice Winslow. I would trade for both of those dudes. I like those top eight lottery picks that I haven't figured it out yet. Can we do two minutes here on Jerry fucking West?

Yeah. This is such a Jerry West trade. I could just see him sitting courtside watching Blake Griffin just and his wheels turning and just thinking. about that salary and being like in four how old's Jerry west now he's got to be like 78 80 yeah he's fucking four years for now it'll be 84 I gotta get this guy the fuck out of here I need to rebuild this well everything we everything we heard about the deadline was that it was quiet right nothing was gonna happen Kevin O'Connor wrote for us today that that very thing and you wonder if they looked at the entire landscape and said nobody is really falling back here so the advantage on the market was to pick a clear path and if you look at who

who's kind of bottoming out, like there really aren't that many teams. The Hawks very much so. Other than that, the Kings unintentionally, and even they can't really, because their pick is owed in 2019. Nobody had the expirings, really.

Even just having Bradley and then you can get out of Harrison Bowman next year was a better kind of threesome for a big package than just about anybody. Well, Jerry West just did, basically he was like, I will not make the mistake that Stan Van Gundy is making. Where I'm not going to, because Justin and I have been talking pretty much

since Boogie went down about the Pelicans, and what it meant for them. And they were a feisty middle of the pack team that probably would have won a couple of playoff games against the Spurs. They were really grown on them. And that was actually, you know, like the Pelicans and the Spurs would have been an awesome

first round series that, you know, every once in a while the Spurs get jumped, you know? And I kind of was excited to at least watch it happen or at least watch them try. But now the Pelicans are going to battle to stay in playoffs. But Jerry West didn't take the bait. He didn't say, oh wow, boogie went down. This is our chance to get the 7th.

seat or the sixth seed. He's like, screw this. I'm selling as high as I possibly can. And furthermore, throughout this like wild goose chase on everybody imagining what's going to happen with DeAndre because he had this like phantom ankle injury that kept him out for two weeks. And they were basically like, this is going to be the end of DJ here. And wasn't Blake walking around being like, I can't believe he's been here for nine years? And it was like the first time he hadn't been on the bench or something like that. And it was just pretty much, I thought everybody was sort of like, yeah, DJ is going to get traded pretty soon. And, whether it was going to be Houston or whether it was going to be Cleveland or whatever.

And now it's like he really just ropedooped these guys. So I have the salaries for next year. T. Dosage, player option, 6.3. We've covered the Harris and Boban. T last year, 21. Austin Rivers, player option 12.65. He probably opts in, right? Depending on where his father works, yeah.

Beverly's in for five. That's a good contract. great deal. Juan Evans is 1.3. I really like Juan Evans, by the way. Just for the record. The killer is Gallinari at 21.6. Can they get him to retire?

Stretch him? Actually, they either stretch him or actually stretch him because he runs like he hasn't stretched. Also, not for nothing, but like a relatively healthy gallo is like a super fun basketball player. Well, that was the other thing I noticed just from going to the games in person. It made no sense that Gallenari and Blake Griffin were on the court at the same time. No. They're both these 610 guys that can't guard anybody who's 6-6.

And Gallo right now is probably bigger than DJ. Yeah. Even though he looks great in his suit, I just noticed every time he's on the bench. Yeah, he looks huge. And then they have Sam Decker for 2.7 next year. Wesley Johnson, player option 6.1. And DeAndre, if he opposite, and at 24, I think it's conceivable they could have cap space.

That's not that hard to navigate out of that, right? It would have been great if they had enough cap space to undercut the Lakers. if they could just come in and be like, we'll take Paul George and LeBron and just do it that way. Can I ask you a question? I'm just telling you that I have the clippers are all in on Blake Griffin by Lee Jenkins

queued up and I'm going to read some excerpts. Do you want to do a dramatic reading? You tell me when you were... Should I read it as Bono? Yeah, ask me a question. What was the market? What did he turn down? So the subtics I know for a fact

had been intrigued by Blake for years but that contract, there's no way. They would never touch. Of course not. Not with Anthony Davis probably hitting the market in two years now. Could the Knicks have been a... The old Knicks would have. They just didn't have like the...

They'd given up a first-round pick. They didn't really have the contracts to throw in there because all of their guys expire three years from now. Yeah, they're pretty toxic. I don't know if the Clippers would have wanted those back. Bulls stay away, right? And they seem pretty psyched on the fact that they have three good young players for once. Yeah, same with the Bulls.

Yeah. I think it's almost somebody else that might have been... a panic candidate. So where are the other panic candidate? Charlotte. Yeah, but they're going to go the other way. Miami, potentially? I'm surprised Miami didn't kick the tires out. Yeah, I was always Blake and Miami always really

interested me because while Stan Van Gundy seems like the antithesis of what Blake wants, which is a guy nitpicking his game up and down the court and Blake is the nitpicker of the refs. It just seems like it's going to be so chaotic. Riley, not only because Miami has a, and you can add air quotes if you'd like in a great health department,

a great medical department. Riley seems like the kind of guy who could properly motivate Blake, if there's anyone who could, that there would be something about like all these guys doubt you. Nobody thinks you're an elite player anymore, but we do and we're going to build this around you

and we've been waiting for a guy like you to be available. And that's why we traded, whoever we traded like the collection of wings that we have to get you. What about this then? Tyler Johnson, Justice Winslow.

They don't have the third contract. And Tyler Johnson, Justice Winslow, and Wayne Ellington. Yeah. For Blake, they don't have the first pick to trade, right? So they have Dragich, White Side. Would you do Justice Winslow, Bam and Tyler Johnson for Blake? No first round pick? Bam's my white side insurance.

Yeah. No first round pick. That's the three, just those three for Blake. Bam in there without a first? No first round pick. No, I would do it. I wouldn't do it. Tyler Johnson.

I think Miami's too savvy. I thought, like, as a free agent destination, Miami would be interesting. But if we're talking about panic buys, Phoenix. Phoenix would be in the mix there. How many times could they get in trouble with injured guys, though, Phoenix? I don't know. Robert Sarver seems to have ground out. Like, he seems to have no limit of interest in, in like, a big-name player.

Who do you think they called? They called Detroit. I guarantee they called Phoenix. I guarantee they called Miami. Charlotte? Portland? simply because Neil L. Shea just loves all of his old players. Yeah, they're like, what about we're thinking, C.J. McCollum, and you're first for Blake,

and Portland's like, ah, no. Well, I know Neil has been enamored with Blake ever since, like, they had him in there. I know he didn't draft him, but that's the team he kind of formed. He built Lob City, and I know he's been interested in DJ. He's poked around on Eric Bledsoe, so it wouldn't surprise me if he did something like that. I don't know who Phoenix would have thrown into a Blake trade. They have the Brandon Knight contract, which goes another two years. That's a disaster.

I don't think they could have pulled it off. It's probably the best trade. I kind of really like this. Is it possible the Clippers might be better after this trade? Defensively, I think they might be. I'm trying to think. Like, obviously Blake's on the court the whole time, no. But you think like Blake was a week away from having another nagging Blake injury?

I just don't think that this is the Clippers team we're going to see after the All-Star break. There's just, I just don't see how DJ is kept on this team now. It seems like his bags have been packed for a while. Where does DJ go, though? Everybody's telling me DJ is going to get traded, and I still haven't figured out what team goes for him. You would just assume the Cavs would panic. But they've been playing a little bit better lately.

Bucks? Bucks, yeah. Bucks changed their mind about who they want to be. Which happens every day. Yeah. All right, it is now 428 PT. We're going to read some tweets and Slack posts, and react to them in real time.

So, Roche says, talks on the clips, Pistons, Blockbuster started six days ago, accelerated in the past 24 hours, framework of a deal had been in place since early afternoon. I'm always amazed that this stuff doesn't get out. There's so many leaks in every organization. You think, Justin, you're a savvy person who's covered NBA teams in the past. You'd think they just went to the Pistons? No, they probably, I mean, they've been kicking things around for a while. You've heard kind of rumors about Tristan Thompson. I've never heard Blake. Yeah, Blake was a new one. I got to say, I feel like I hear stuff.

Sometimes I never heard Blake. Well, it's probably a reason because if he ever found out about it, then he'd probably freak out and you wouldn't be able to motivate him properly if it didn't come together. Yeah, I also always thought that with Balmer being only in the league for relatively short amount of time and his, he's not a neophyte, but I thought maybe he would be like, but this is the guy that sells the, like, this is the guy that sells the tickets. When I go watch, when you go to the Clippers games, the person who's jersey they have is Blake. People are wearing Blake jerseys.

So I thought he might be a little bit hesitant to get off of him, but apparently not. What do you make of this tweet from January 22nd? Asked Blake Griffin for a pick and he ran to the locker room yelling, quote, nine fucking years, unquote, like he's pissed off at something. The team, the fans himself. This was on basketball Twitter for a few hours. I thought that was a DJ thing. I thought that that was like an illusion to playing with DJ for nine years or something like that. Now it gets a little more interesting because the timeline, if the deal was in place for six days, Justin, let's watch.

backwards. That takes us to January 22nd. Hmm. Something seemed to be up. More tweets. Blake Griffin just tweeted. Oh, he made the Will Smith face. Okay. Like, which kind of Will Smith face? The Will Smith, I can't believe that happened face.

I'm going to read a couple of quotes from the Lee Jenkins piece for you guys. Headline. The Clippers are all in on Blake Griffin. Date, November 7th, 2017. A whole thing about. about Blake Griffin, how they decided to keep him in, and then Chris Paul departed. He reminds me of Jerry Rice, said Clippers head athletic trainer Jason Powell. Comedy is an outlet. Oh, he entered the Staples Center concourse on the afternoon of June 30th. How long ago was June 30th? Seven months ago?

Yeah. He stepped into a visual depiction of that story, pictures from childhood, from high school, from college. I'm paraphrasing. A PA announcer bellowed, tonight we're honoring a lifelong clipper. It was 2020-9, according to the PA guy, and Griffin was attending his own Jersey retirement ceremony. They lifted the number 32 to the rafters.

Andrade Davis sang, rise up with a choir that recalled the dunk contest. This is from Jenkins, but he savored the sound of, quote, lifelong clipper, unquote, a phrase that hasn't been uttered much over the past few decades. decades. That was the cell, Griffin says. This is where you've been. This is your home. You've been here for 17 wins. You've been here for 50. It made me feel like I was part of something bigger than myself. Bo, blah, blah. I want to take ownership. Next paragraph is how they recruited Danilo Gallinari. And then it keeps going. Wow.

Blake's a pioneer. Just like the T-shirt said. Less than three months ago. There's no loyalty in sports. why would you think that there would be? There's just not. There's no loyalty. None of these guys should ever feel loyalty to a team. I said this with the Isaiah Thomas trade last summer, which was just a shanking. Do you think it impacts the clippers next time they go into a room with a free agent?

No. No. Do you? No. And I mean, Blake also punched someone on the team in the face and had a lot of previous issues and took as much money as he possibly could. I mean, on both sides. That only earned a paragraph in the Lee Jenkins piece.

I believe it or not. The fact that he punched the equipment manager and probably who the hell knows how that turned out privately. But what can we argue about it? Let's have one real argument here. I think it's interesting what's going to happen with the rest of the league, the ripple effects, not only with just like what moves get made as a counter, but also what happens in the West. I think the Pelicans, I was literally just writing about how they were screwed that at this point going forward, there really is no way to save the product

in order to convince Anthony Davis to come back for a third contract, and all of a sudden they look like shoe wins to make the playoffs in the West because the Clippers were their only reasonable competition for that last spot. The Jazz are far enough back and they really seem to have settled on this core

of Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert. And so you assume that they would probably prefer to play for the future. And now the Calculus starts to change just a little bit more. Pelicans 27, 22, Clippers, 25, and 24, Jazz, 21 and 28. Jazz are not making the playoffs.

Can not be ruled out? The Jazz? That can't be ruled out. There's 33 games left. They got all their dudes back. And if the Pelicans make the playoffs, then perhaps Alvin Gentry, who's on, I believe, a team option for next year in his contract comes back. Perhaps Del Demp's comes back and you just do the same thing over just with probably a

slightly diminished boogie and maybe someone they pick up here at the deadline. Can I interrupt you? Sure. They're not making the playoffs. You think the Pelicans are out in the Jazz. I think they're out. It was a three-man team, and they just lost their biggest advantage in one of the best 10 guys in the league, and they're replacing him with who? Probably Dante Cunningham.

Yeah. It was terrible. Omer Oshik? Can they get him? Yeah, it's actually apropos that in order to paper over, like, the buggy injury, they have to play Omer Oshik, who is pretty much the symbol of all their issues over the past five years. I call him the discount Joachim Noah. The discount, Moskof. He is the poison pill.

He is. Yeah. I think the clippers could make the playoffs anyway. I'm starting to talk myself into it. Unless they just give away D'Andre. And I still, somebody's got to explain to me why they would trade Lou Williams. Unless they were able to get like a top 12 first round pick. I think Lou Williams loves being a clipper, no matter who else is on the team. And I think that he has become like basically the face of the franchise.

he is the de facto face of the franchise right now. He's fucking fun to watch. She's the most fun quipper they've had since Blake was young Blake. Why would you want to rebuild around? I mean, are you planning on resigning DeAndre? No. Okay, so you want to let DeAndre play out his contract. I want to trade DeAndre and get a pick and an expiring contract back,

but I don't think that's realistic. So DeAndre and Tristan, for Tristan and the Cavs pick? I don't want Tristan Thompson. I have a TV. I've watched the Cavaliers that guy's not playing hard and he's got a terrible contract you don't want you don't want him do you

I don't I could care of like Would you want Tristan Thompson? No no I'm trying to think of I'm trying to think of It looks like he doesn't give a shit anymore The question is like is this For me the question really becomes about Power at the Clippers organization

And whether or not This is something that Doc Rivers signed off on Because he's like I have become revitalized coaching these scrappy There's no bad news bears There's no signing off They don't care what he thinks. If he resigned, that would be the great.

That bomber would have a party. Doc left, great. I said $10 million. I'll go hire Jeff Van Gundy for four. There's $6 million I can spend on the cheerleaders. You don't think? You think they care if Doc Rivers stays? I guess not.

I associate Doc so closely with the personnel power in that franchise. Jerry West is sitting there. And he's just going, wait. one more game wait no not yet oh i can't believe that guy still has his fastball i feel like i'm losing my fastball i'm 40 i saw a clipper game last week on tv where he was sitting court side talking to who you must have seen that i didn't see that he was he was engaging with somebody on the court jerry west gerard butler i was laughing because it just seemed like he was so locked in and had so much energy that I was like, oh man, Jerry West really likes this team.

So, all right, let's walk it through. Beverly, Beverly can't come back this year, right? That's not happening? He can. I like a Beverly, Avery Bradley backcourt. That's a fucking pain. It's going to drive people nuts. I was thinking Bradley.

Yeah, Bradley's come back. So, Chris, let's talk this out. Beverly, Avery Bradley, and Lou Williams. It's a pretty nice back court. Yeah, compared to what else is down there at the bottom of the West. Sure. You could keep Lou as like the six-man, like instant offense, crunch time guy, maybe play all three at the same time.

Harris can play the three or the four. DeAndre I would get rid of. I like Harold. I like all of their young, weird young dudes that they have. And they got to figure out who wants Austin Rivers. right you're i you're giving me this look where you're really convincing me it's one of these times where i think i'm going to walk out of this room and everybody's going to be like the clippers are tanking you you feel like they're making a move to be like we're no i'm just trying to figure out if they

if if they could conceivably be like they're basically they're to use the next 33 games to any fan they have who can't believe they just traded blake griffin the guy who was we were working at great land was on the side of of a building. Remember that? Yes. For a year. He was on like a 20-story building, a picture of him dunking.

I think he's still there. Here's the other thing. He might still be there. Here's the other thing for the Clippers. In April is like right around March is when you start sending the season ticket renewals. What am I renewing if I'm a Quipper fan? So they have to spin this some way. We are the young frisky cap space going for free agents, Clippers.

Don't count us out for LeBron. we're going to have cap space. Yeah, I think you... Don't cut us out for Paul George. That's our next move. You spin it exactly the way you're talking about it in the beginning of this podcast, which is like we are being run by a basketball genius who is the architect of some of the great NBA teams of all time. And we just made a franchise saving move to make us both more competitive and feisty and...

Are you a quipper season ticket executive selling me right now? This is my pitch. This is good. I like it. Keep going. Not only are we like feisty and back to our underdog. status against the glitzy lakers with the loud mouth LeVar and all their dreams of LeBron. We've got all these scrappy young guys and hungry veterans playing.

We're hungry. There's no more star mentality. There's no more Montreal comedy festival in this crew. One of the great coaches of this century. And next, this coming summer, we are going to be the first team, all the big agents call. Well, do you think we're out of the- barrier? Bearer's going to hop at a step, but maybe the coffee.

I think you do make a good point, though, because it does seem like if the clippers are going to still compete for the playoffs this year and next, let's say, a lot of it's going to come down to dock. I was watching that game last night when they were playing against the Pelicans. They were down by, I believe, 21 in the first half. And they turned it on and they won that game, mostly because the Pelicans just ran out of gas. They had to settle for three-pointers. But also because a lot of it was just Lou Williams finally making the 30 or so shots

that he's going to take a game, and Blake Griffin going down into the post, he's in his way in, and then just going for the hook shot. A lot of it is still just isolation basketball. And I wonder, I guess the optimist would say, well, you put Tobias Harris in there, another high-volume shooter. You can do some of the similar things, right? Yeah. I think the counter is, now you need Doc to actually orchestrate some stuff. And I mean, just a couple of years ago, we were saying about this guys, look at his out-of-bounds plays.

Look at the masterful sets he would come up with. I was always considered to be a dick on the internet because I would point this stuff out. I think he needs to prove it now. If he was ever that guy, he needs to prove it with his team. I call it like I say it with Doc Rivers, which puts me in common with not a lot of people in the actual mainstream media because he befriended so many people. They were always benefited the doubt. Wow, you're fox-noosing it right now. Lainstream media doesn't see.

My mainstream. It's fake news. Listen, he's done a really good job the last two months. Yeah. I really respect it. That team was ready to fold over. And I don't know how much. he had to do with it.

And I don't know how much Lou Williams turning into basically a slightly better version of Damien Lillard had to do with it. But Doc Rivers, I have been watching. He's actually using young guys and trying shit and using weird lineups and doing stuff that he doesn't normally do. I do think Chris Paul had a paralysis over that team and was a hard guy to coach. I think he's a hard guy for Mike Dantone to coach. I just think he does things his way.

It's like a drill surgeon. So it's an interesting just chemistry experiment. I mean, we looked at that Hawks team that won 60 games, and we saw how they kind of developed some guys on the fly. And I wondered, like, after people caught up to that, everyone caught up to the 3&D wing, the Damari Carrels of the world, whether or not any team would be able to do it again? It kind of seems like if the Clippers are trying to play for both the future and now, I wonder if they're kind of the test subjects for that. Well, which roster would you rather have? Clippers or Pistons right now? Clippers. How about you, Chris?

Clippers. I like this Clippers roster so much more than I did a week ago. Do you think it helps people? They had no, they had, if DeAndre opted in, they were screwed next year, and then Blake's contract combined with Gallin area screwed them the year after. And then all of a sudden, Blake's making $40 million. I didn't really see a path for them unless Blake stayed healthy. They're, they're so over,

pistons are so overcommitted to Drummond and Blake right now. Well, would you trade Drummond now? For what? I don't know. This is the problem with DeAndre. Do you call Uncle Vladay? Do you call the one team more desperate than you? Like, hey, Andre Drummond's on the table.

I'll drive to Sacramento and hang up the phone for Vladie. Because that's exactly the kind of thing you're talking about. You've got to go find the desperate GM. But to me, it's like if there's no market for DJ, is it really a market for Drummond just because he's a couple years younger? I like Drummond. I do too. I would trade Collie Stein in my first round pick for him if it was top like six protected,

maybe if I was the Kings. I mean, I personally wouldn't do it. I'm trying to think like Vladay right now. If I'm Vladay, I'm like, oh, I can get Andre German and I'm not going to get hosed in this draft and all I have to give up is Willie Colley Stein basically and a protected. Oh, wait, they don't have their, they can't trade their pick.

We forgot. Sacramento, yeah, that's. They're in that set something. Yeah, cross them off. Sorry. Yeah, I mean, the Kings have whiffed on how many centers at this point? It would make sense for them. They'd have five centers in the roster.

Papianas is just somewhere out in like Reno, just hanging out in the G-League. team. Is Blake the 10th best player in the East right now? How healthy is he? As is right now. The last seven games, Blake. 24, 10 and 6, Blake.

He'd probably make the All-Star team if he had played in the East all year. I couldn't come up with 12 All-Stars when we did our list. Yeah. When I did it was Zach, I'm like trying. I didn't want to put John Wail on there, but I kind of had to talk myself into it. Blake. He's better than Ben Simmons right now. I actually had Tobias Harris on my bubble list.

Yeah. Yeah. which would have been ludicrous, but it's not like Tobias Harris is bad. If Tobias Harris can give them a 17 and 7, Blake, healthy Blake's 24 and 10, but you have to have him so much more involved

than Tobias Harris says to be. You're probably better. Yeah, I like what Milos brings to the team. I mean, ever since he's been back, the ball has moved a lot better. Because he looks like your drunk brother.

The thing with Milos is just like you'll get it for 12 games and then he'll be out for two weeks. and then you'll get him for 12 games, it'll be out for two weeks, right? I've heard multiple rumors. I'm going to announce this on the podcast. Now I'm passing on rumors, but I don't feel like this is defamatory.

Multiple rumors that he might have six in his day-to-day life. We need more smoking basketball players. He's the first. I had always heard Vlad a devatch, and I think he even talked about it. I think he even admitted it. But we haven't had an NBA player in a while.

I've heard rumors like Keon Clark was supposedly a smoker. So one of my passions is to find out secret smokers. I think at Teodosich, there's been some buzz. Put it that way. That's fantastic. Surprisingly enough, more guys probably drink, which you think would be worse for them, just considering that their bodies are there.

As an ex-smoker, I can assure you that smoking is pretty bad. Like, in terms of I could not be running point guard for the clubers. Then there's nephew Kyle over there who drinks and smokes. That's why you're not in the NBA, Kyle. I just wish that, like, Milos is secretly just a health nut that everyone assumed. that he isn't. Like when he takes off his shirt, he's just rippling with abs.

He's muscles on top of muzzles. He's smoking like something healthy. Yeah. All right, let's read some moments from the ringer NBA slack. We should wrap up because and then we'll wrap up.

Kev's filed. Oh, did he? Oh, okay. There we go. John Gonzalez tweeted that Blake could probably dominate the Detroit laugh factor.

I think that's true. Or he's slacked it. Pistons get Willie Reed and Bryce Johnson, too, according to Danny Chow? I kind of like Willie Reed. Scrappy. And B.

Lear likes Willie Reed too. Shacker thinks Lou Williams definitely gets traded this week. I don't know if I agree with that. Julia Lipman says the ringer curse, the only thing more potent is the Kardashian curse. You guys agree with that? I don't like this ringer curse.

Julia definitely believes in the Kardashian curse, and I trust her when it comes to curses. Sean, you where is that Blake's stand-up material is about to get dark? I think it's good for a stand-up. I think it's good. I think stand-up. Pain is good for stand-up. Yeah, I think if we've seen anything, whether it's like George Carlin, like, it just,

it needs to come from a place of darkness and rage. Can I just throw out there that there's like 25, 30% chance that Blake's like, this is a new lease on life. I hated being on the Clippers. I'm gonna destroy everybody. I can't wait to run rip-shit over the Eastern Conference. No one can stop me there. We're going to the playoffs and I like my chances against like Marcyne Gortott in the playoffs.

How about that? Maybe vengeance toward Blake. like 10 days and then I think he's going to walk outside of Detroit. It's going to be snowing. He's going to be like, what the fuck did it? Yeah, right. Fantasy points out, Jordan outlasting CP3 and Blake had

to have been on unlikely odds in Vegas. So the retiring DJ's jersey now? Yeah. Is that what's happening? I think, you know, the thing is that they're going to probably wind up retiring Austin's jersey. I think the equipment, the equipment manager. Megan Schuster points out Detroit is a three and a half hour drive

from Cleveland. Tristan Thompson. What's her name? Who's the one interest in Thompson dates? Chloe. Chloe. Blake can visit DJ when he gets traded there. Sean You said Isaac Lee,

Clipper fan, podcast producer. His reaction was, It's tough. I need a drink as he was producing Shackhouse. Loser of the month, according to Juliet, his Excel sports management who had Jason Kidd,

Blake, Griffin, Paul Pierce, and Kevin Love. Oof. Vince Staples tweeted. Actually, I quit. Call me when one of the Rivers leaves. I don't believe Vince Staples. he's threatened to quit before.

You got to have him on. I got to get him on this week. And then, eh, that's really it. Fitz Staples tweeted, Chris came and ain't die for this. That's a good one. So the nine fucking years rumor is getting a lot of play on our slack too. Do we think that's real? I think that's about DJ if it was about anything.

Are we sure? I'm not sure. I'm just, I'm making an educated guess. So you like this trade for clipers. it up. You like this trade for the clippers. I give the clippers an A plus. And for the Pistons?

This, by the way, breaks my rule of never liking a trade when the other team got the best player. I think that Blake Griffin contract is one of the most frightening things I've ever seen on Spot Track. Is that what it's called? Yeah. Your final grade? I would say B.

For the clippers. For the clippers, yeah. If they still think they can compete for the playoffs, I'm not totally convinced of it, but I do like where they're going long term. Chris Ryan? I'm going to say B for the Clippers and I'm going to say C plus for the Pistons.

I don't, you're grading against something where it's like this is, this is basically the last mission for these guys, right? I give the Clippers, I mean, I've got, I give the Pistons a D plus.

I give Stan Van Gundy and A plus because what does he care if it doesn't work out? He's leaving anyway. He just goes to TV. Great move for Steve. Stan Van Gett gets an A plus plus and so does Jerry West.

Maybe he'll replace Paul Pierce and ESPN's, countdown curve. Yeah, maybe that's how he's looking at this. What did you give the Pistons? I would give him a C-minus. I don't believe in Blake long-term. What would you give nephew Kyle

for producing this podcast? Always an A. So Arntelman, we're not positive where he was. Arn't-Torne-Therstead of the Pistons? Yes, with a little ownership. I like a little Chauncey Billups landing in Detroit. Oh, like as a GM or as a coach. Only one man can reach Blake Griffin.

It's Chauncy Billups. Or Neil Brennan. Maybe a Chauncey GM Rashid Wallace coach. Oh, now you're talking, Chris, right? Holy shit. Remember when Chauncey was like the missing piece for the Lob City Clippers? That was like five years ago. It feels like 20.

Remember when Chauncey was going to take the Cavs job? Yeah. Yeah, do we ever find out what Chauncey saw in that Cavs job that it was basically like Get Out? Yeah, we did see it. It's what this Cavs is. Yeah. All right. Thanks to ZipRecruiter.

Don't forget, my listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash BS. Lots of good stuff coming this week. With me on House of Carbs and Against All Odds, two more BS podcast coming. And then Francesa Fridays, big Super Bowl pick. Thanks to Justa Bear. Thanks to Chris Ryan. Read the ringer.com. Kevin O'Connor, who else is writing?

Paulo getting. Paulo up now. Kevin, we'll probably have a group post tomorrow. We'll be talking about this all week. And John Gonzalez, if you're listening, you've been assigned to a bow band feature. Get ready. Get your chops. Thanks, Nephew, Kyle.