The Ringer NBA Show - The Hawks and Clippers Bring Their Series to 2-2. Plus: Luka Doncic Flexes His Star Power. | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 15, 2021

Logan is joined by The Ringer’s Seerat Sohi Monday night to discuss the Hawks narrowly beating the 76ers to tie up their series (1:40) and the Clippers ripping the Jazz a new one to tie up their series (22:00). Then they dive into Tim Cato and Sam Amick’s story in The Athletic about Luka Doncic not liking Dallas “shadow GM” Haralabos Voulgaris (39:00) before Jomi puts the Nuggets on pack watch (47:00) and Logan and Seerat give their predictions for Tuesday’s Bucks-Nets Game 5 (49:15). Host: Logan Murdock Guests: Seerat Sohi and Jomi Adeniran Associate Producer: Sasha Ashall Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The NFL draft may be over, but the Ringer NFL show isn't going anywhere. On Mondays, join Kevin and Nora as they look ahead to the 2021 season. And on Wednesdays, check out Flying Coach Season 2 with NFL Network's Peter Schrager and Rams head coach Sean McVeigh. The two longtime friends are joined by guests from around the sports and entertainment world to discuss the latest NFL news, tell stories from their careers, and break down the game from their unique perspectives. Check out the Ringer NFL show on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

And we're back. This is Logan Murdoch from the Real Ones podcast on KMEL. I'm here with Roger Bell, and we got the Mad Hooper here. Yeah, we're here with the Mad Hooper, and I think we're going to open it up for the audience to ask some questions to the Matt Hooper. Young lady, do you have a question for the Mad Hooper? Yeah, this is Sasha from St. Louis,

and I just have a question for the Mad Hooper. Like, why are you so mad? I don't get it. Like, why are you so mad? Yeah, I'll tell you why I'm mad. I'm mad as hell about the damn sun. You know, they get bad. Booker out here, you talking crap, and we got Aiton, and we got campaign dancing in the

locker room, swear they did anything. We all know why they're in the conference finals, because AD got down, right? And the Nuggets don't got Jamal Murray. That's just the truth. Then Valley Boys could think they're all that, but they're not really all that, and that's just the cold, hard truth. AD here and AD Healthy, they got nothing on the Lakers. That's why I'm mad. Yo, what up? This is Logan Murdoch from Ruins. Just want to give you guys a quick disclaimer. Just so you guys know, for the first half of the pod,

our special guest host, Siris Sohe's Zoom audio will be used. And then we'll go to our mic on the second half of the pod. Lock in. What's popping? Logan Murdoch here. Sasha Mac on the boards. Rogers out being a football dad. So we have a special guest co-host in the building.

My dog, Sirot Sohi. What's popping, bro? Just excited to be here, Logan. You don't sound like it. You don't really sound like it. Are you excited? I am. I am.

Yeah, there was quite a bit leading up to this. Now I feel like we're pretending that we haven't been talking for the last 20 minutes. So I don't know what level I should have came in at. I want to tell you that I'm locked in. So let's do this. First game, we're talking to you after the, Hawks, Sixers. That was probably the ugliest game I've ever seen in the playoffs.

Not ever seen, but definitely one of the more ugly games that I've seen. What did you think of that game? Hawks won, series tie two two. Tale of Two Hads, really. The Hawks just looked, yo man, like the Hawks look completely rattled in the first half. Yeah. Like, the Sixers were just making them look small. It was really sad.

It was kind of like watching a high school game where one team has a really good program and the other team is kind of just like there and they know like it was it was tough and like I say all this to to say like you know good for the Hawks

honestly because everything that I'm about to say did happen in that happened in the first half and not happen in the second half first of all John Collins and Capella just looked terrified of Joelle and Pete like any time they look like Matumbo and the O one finals both of them

Just like playing up against Shaq. That's what they look like in the first half, even though Joel didn't play well. They just looked helpless. He got rocked like that. I thought he was, you know, supposed to be. He was a defensive player of the year and met Shaq and was not about that life. But that was just some in the first half. And the second half, they balled out.

It seemed like, but not, like it just seemed like a game where the six were in control throughout the whole game. And I wasn't really expecting the Hawks to win. It doesn't seem like that until the second half. But does this say anything? Does this say anything about the series? I still have the Sixers winning. I could still see them winning the next two games and it just be, it's over. But does this mean anything to you?

Does this game actually mean anything in terms of the series? Yeah, I think the biggest thing is just how hurt Embedithes. Like, so Joelle Ambide has, he has a torn meniscus and he's playing through it. I think we should just, we should just say that every day just to remind everybody. He is playing through a torn meniscus. That is not like you're. regular wear and tear like oh it's a playoffs warrior mentality you just got to push through what is he playing with what is he playing with i believe it's a torn meniscus okay he he was holding onto his knee at

the end of the second half or was it it was like after the it was the first when he went he went back with with elton brand and no one really knew what was going on i thought maybe you know they were just hanging out talking shit he's not like a doctor or anything um but clearly something clearly something happened. Because he went like over six third quarter over, I think, I mean, I think probably,

I don't know what it was, but they kept feeding him. And that was to me like the biggest thing. Like he, his attempt to try to play through whatever it is that he's dealing with really made things difficult because they continued to run things through him too

when they probably shouldn't have like his defense and his rebounding were amazing. And if he wants to push through, he wants to push through. like ultimately that's that's on him uh but he's just not he wasn't effective on offense and like to me that's that's huge because like the hawks can't guard him um for most of the series they haven't really been able to double him either like I was kind of thinking like after the first time I was like they they just can't double him they have no choice of what to play him straight up and hope

that it works out because like I mean like I mean Chuck Chuck was did you watch did you watch a halftime show I did watch that time show on T&T yes I did you know Chuck was that was that was that was honestly like one of the better half-time shows. Yes. Chuck was just roasting the hell out of their defense and like you can't bring Trey Young for over for a double and Bede, which you can't. And then Shaq went over and like told Underdog to come on. It's like, yo, hey, Underdog, Underdog,

come over here and go with me. Come over here. Natalie, give me the ball. Just to show the beer. It was the only double team with one person and it still made complete sense. It totally worked. It totally worked. But yeah, so I mean, you know, I think later on in the fourth, like they kind of found some doubles at work.

Like part of that I think is Embedde was hurt. They figured some stuff out. Collins was amazing. And he actually started rotating a lot better, had a great second half after just like not really existing in the first half. But yeah, like it's just that's that's to me going to be the story of the series. is just like how injured is Embed how much can he produce on offense? And going forward from here,

like how much are the Hawks really going to double him? I almost feel like they should just see how he's feeling in game five and go from there. The weird thing about the Sixers is with Embed hurt the way he is and Ben Simmons, not a jump shooter, it's weird that they have to go to their supplementary pieces now

and they didn't do that down the stretch to this game. You know, you talk about Seth Curry, who was killing at 3-3s, 7 of 10 from the field. But it was odd that they didn't get him the ball down the stretch, right? When you see Joel is clearly hurting, they gave him the ball. They gave Joel the ball down the stretch, and he couldn't push off of that leg. Do you think that this is a series where, yeah, OMB can get you there with his rebounding, with his defense,

but you're going to have to have other guys like Seth Curry and Tobias Harris shoot those shots down the stretch. And what kind of, what does that kind of say about the Sixers where your two best players, at least at this point, can't get it done for you down the stretch? Well, I mean, with Embed, I think he was more hurt than it was anything else, right? Like, I think there's actually a way to reliably run crunch time offense through him. But yeah, I mean, they really need guys to hit shots now. That's something that they, I don't think they necessarily would have needed. Like, honestly, this was actually like a very, like, emotional, I imagine game for Sixers fans. because after that first half, I'm thinking like, oh my God, like, first of all, Embedon Simmons just know how to play together and are just manipulating the Hawks.

Like the Hawks wanted to push the pace. And then Simmons is like, oh, you guys want to play a transition game? Like, we're better at that than you. So we're just going to go do that. And they hit a bunch of shots. And then, like, later on, they slow it down with Joelle before he gets hurt. And it just looks like things are coming together for the Sixers. like Harris has been playing well.

They don't have it. Like they've had the injury to Danny Green, but ultimately like when you look at the injuries that are going on in the league, that's not that that, you know, catastrophic for a team at this juncture. Like things look really, really good. And now... It seemed like they were coasting for a bit in a good way though, right?

Like they had everything under control down in the second half. Yeah. No, it felt like that. Like even Trey coming back in the second quarter, he was much better in this. It wasn't the first. And he ended up having a fantastic game. Should have had honestly 30 assists based on how many guys he was setting up for for layups that didn't go in.

But yeah, like that was also the success physicality too. And like you saw a lot of that more in the first half as well. So yeah, I mean like it kind of, I feel like the complexion of this series actually kind of changed in this second half. Yeah. And I think one of the things that I really loved about this game is, I think we forgot just aesthetically. You know, everything is all about offense.

And I think we forgot about how entertaining a physical basketball game can be. and it was a welcome sight. Did you see that at all? It felt it was fun to watch an imperfect game. And I think that we've looked to see like an analytically driven perfect game. And sometimes it's just not like that, right? You want to see, you know, obviously you want to see the excitement of like a Warriors or something like that. But this was a very fun game, man.

I love the physicality tonight. Oh, it was awesome. And it was just like it's really great to see players try to level up on that against each other because that's something that ultimately, like anybody can bring. Like, they're guys going to be better at it. There's guys that are going to be stronger.

But like, you know, I felt like watching that game, it went from the sixers are just literally throwing these guys around, doing whatever they want. So like, the Hawks just didn't go away. Like,

they just kept coming, coming back at it. And like, honestly, to me, like that the biggest compliment there goes to like goes to Capella and Collins. Like,

I love watching that. It's so much fun because like, they're young dudes. And it's like, you're actually, you're actually finding out. Like, I feel like physical basketball,

like, kind of, it shows you where you're at as a player. And it also teaches us a little bit, something more about where a player is at, too, in terms of, like, can they adjust to this right away? Like, how quick, how hard is this going to be? Like, I feel like Coppela has gone from, like, being just, like,

it was so easy for Embed to, he started to figure out a few things, probably still more that he's hurt. But yeah, it's a ton of fun. Like, you're seeing that in, like, a ton of other series, too. It's just like, and, like, a lot of guys can score, but, you know, who has it? Like, who can, like, you know, tap into that reserve.

Like, that's what physical basketball tells you. So it's so much fun. What do you? I want to talk about this, this Hawks team because it seems like they're one of those, I don't really want to compare teams, but it seems like the team that's a year away, right? The team that is trying to figure itself out in the postseason. And it's, they haven't have everything figured out yet. But it seems like they're learning right now.

I think that next year, I don't know if they win the series. Even if they do, I don't see them, you know, they're definitely not winning a title. But they seem to be growing in this way. Do you kind of see a coming of age with this team? Because I feel like this has been the postseason of coming of age stories like this. And we talk about Utah and things like that. What do you see that from the Hawks? Yeah, totally.

I mean, everyone's kind of, this has been such a fun postseason because of that. Like everyone's just kind of getting an opportunity to show who they are. Even Embed to another extent, right? like him really just being willing to to push through this. Like that's that's kind of his biggest crutch, I guess, is just the fact that he's always getting hurt. And like, you know, watching him do that has been amazing. Like watching him in game three in particular,

just finding like a new peak. But it's awesome. It's like it's awesome watching the Hawks do that too. Yeah, I totally agree with you though, because like to me the biggest thing is really just like Tray's development. Like what did you think of what did you think of how we kind of manage this game. I love it.

You know, I think that it's, when we talk about coming of age, I really, my, my opinion of Trey has been just that. It's been a coming of age story. It's like, you know, it seems like I got caught up in the flashiness and early on, right? And then, you know, I'm not going to lie before I even wrote the piece that you can check out, I'm on the ringer.com. Just about, before I wrote that, I was still on the fence about him. But I do love the way he manages games.

I do love the way that he plays the game. And I think what's overshadowed about his game is the way he talk shit and the way that he, his, what everyone perceives as antics, right? But he's a really good basketball player, a really good point guard. And I think that you see the ability during the regular season, but where he proved that ability is in the postseason. And you kind of saw that in a guard and you saw, and you see that now. I mean, he didn't shoot particularly well tonight. He went eight for 26. but he did manage the game.

And I think that's when you see how good a point guard is or how good a player is. Yeah, he might have a terrible shooting night or she might have a terrible shooting night. But if they can manage the game, especially down the stretch, it really doesn't matter. Because this is one of those sloppy games

where shooting percentage really didn't matter. And I was really impressed by Trey. Today, ESPN reported that the NBA Competition Committee is exploring rule changes to restrict unnatural jump shots and unnatural jump shot motions. Basically, they're trying to get rid of what we see from James Hardin and Trey Young and others where they, it seems like they're trying to bait for calls, right?

Where they put their arm motion and they're trying to use their body to cause foul. So I don't know how I feel about this because whether you blatantly do it or don't do it, like, people are going to try to draw contact no matter what. So what do you think the difference in this is? Because, and I'm going to read an excerpt from what Woad said, there's a growing belief that many of these maneuvers are contributing to a game where the advantage is slanting too much towards the offense. While the concentration of issues is often focused on star players getting much more usage

and exposure with the ball, the league sees this as a universal problem throughout lineups and rosters, not only as an issue for star players. I just feel like in a league that has by and large focused on offense and made that their bag for the last decade, it's kind of curious that they're saying that it's slanting too much, like the advantage of slanting too much towards offense, because it seems like that's what the league would want, right? Because they want these high scoring games and they want these things, but do they just want it without free those? What do you think about this ruling? Do you think that this should be a rule change, a rule change that?

exists. Yeah, I mean, I think that, well, look at the games that we watch today, right? Like, we were just talking about how much fun it is to watch physical basketball. And I think that's generally like a pretty universal feeling. I think people like watching it. Um, for the NBA, I think what they're trying to do is find a balance between, this is the eternal balance that basketball is always trying to find actually between physicality and grace, essentially. Like basketball was invented because, you know, You know, men needed nonviolent football. And it's always kind of tended towards getting more aggressive as things get more competitive,

obviously, as people just look for more edges and stuff. And the rulebook has always worked as a way to kind of maneuver around that and find a way to let, you know, players literally just move. You know, the three-point line taking away hand-checking. I mean, just like pretty much any rule has been, most of the rules have been, have been, intended to create some level of space. Even the flagrant fouls that we're talking about. Like that, those got more strict after the bad boys pistons.

And I think right now we're at a place where that balance is actually like in a pretty bad place because playing defense on certain guys is actually just become impossible. Because it's not just, it's not just trade and hardened. Like at this point, it's, it's Donovan Mitchell baiting Dylan Brooks into fouls in the first round, right? It's like,

it's, it's Luca Donchich. It's it's everyone. I mean, like any, like Curry had more incentive was trying to draw more fouls this year, you know? Because once something becomes successful, everybody else is going to copy it. Like all the other players also want this advantage, right? So that to me is a signal, right? Like, it kind of depends.

Like, can you, in some cases, I think, like, with a lot of these evolutions in the game, you can let things run their natural course. but I think in this particular case with the way that the game is called, I don't think that anybody has found an effective way to play defense against modern stars without picking up vows. And it's been a while now. Like I think we've kind of, we've reached a point where I think it's time to accept that like most teams

aren't really going to figure this out. Like unless, you know, like you're, it was, I was, I was in Janis's press conference like two days ago. and he was talking about getting around screens. And he was like, I'm, you know, I'm working on it. But like for anybody that's seven feet tall, like, no one's going to be better at it than me. But the thing is, like, it's just a really hard thing to do. And it's also like it puts players in really precarious positions too.

Like he said, like, for me, that's a shoulder injury. And I think that that's, that's another concern too. Like, if you are, you know, if you're trying to defend Kevin Duran, if you're trying to defend Tray Young, all you're thinking about is how do I, get around this guy who is just his whole function as a giant human being is to pummel me so that Trey Young can get a little bit more space. Like that's, you know, as the games get more competitive, that gets a little bit more dangerous too. Because like guys come on come around screens.

They don't have any more time, right? Like they can just, you can just pause if you're Trey Young. And if your guy is coming around too aggressively, you just wait, you shoot and he's in your hip. And that's three free throws. And that is a foul. So yeah, I think that does need to change. I think that it's just becoming a little too hard. Like there's just really no, I don't see the puzzle piece.

Like it could be wrong, right? Like that's kind of up to maybe we'll figure it out by the end of the playoffs, right? Like that's always the interesting thing to watch. But yeah. I'm just curious because I don't know if this is going to make it necessarily a cleaner game. In theory, I think it does. But stars are always going to get star calls. I mean, you're not going to litigate your way out of that, in my opinion.

But I don't know. How long do you enforce this? Because, let's be honest, man, refs get tricked all the time. There's not, you know, especially if there's not a, you know, there's always rules where, you know, it happens,

in theory it works. And I'm just not sure if it'll be enforceable is my biggest thing. Is I don't know. Because if you see it, like, it's all instinct when you call as a ref when you're calling files. If you see somebody get grabbed,

you're going to call that. So I'm just curious, I don't really know, Do you think that this is going to actually make a difference, right? Because, I mean, first we didn't have, like, Michael Jordan used to slap his wrist so they could call a foul, right? And there are obviously going to always be players baiting reps by and large. Yeah. Do you think that that's going to stop or is this is going to, it's not going to be as blatant as it is at this point?

It never stops, right? Like, it never stops. But that's kind of the thing, right? Like you, I think like as for the rules committee, I think their job is to look at what players are doing and see what's good and see what like is good for the game and then try to like extinguish what isn't. And for them, you know, these things do work like Kevin Durant, the rip through foul. We see far less of that. I think him and CP3 are pretty much like the only guys in the league that really consistently do it. That was one that was legislated out.

And I think this is kind of a similar situation where these are not like necessarily. necessarily situations where guys are tricking riffs, but just taking advantage of rules that already exist. Yeah. I mean, even the rip-through, I think Kevin does it now when, you know, the other team has 14 fouls, and he knows he's going to get to the line. I think that's the only time when you see it now, but you're right. I mean, that did get legislated out, but I think people use the game smarter now. You know, like I said, Kevin and Chris Paul, they now just do it when, you know, they want to

just get a quick, quick, get to the free throw line for that fit team file. So we'll see. I just don't, I don't know by and large if it's going to affect anything. It's honestly my worry. But, you know, we'll see, man. Let's take another quick break. And we will talk about something near and dear to Jemie's heart. And we are back.

I know I tease Jemmy, but I'll be back in a second. I want to talk about something near and dear to his heart, though, which is the Clippers who even the C.R. He's two two after he went over the jazz. This is an interesting game, man. It might have been the most boring, competitive game I've ever seen. Sir, what were your thoughts in this game? Because it was one of those things that it were like, it was a drag.

It wasn't fun. I'm not sure if I had fun watching this game. The Clippers went up big. Utah made a brief comeback. Then it was just one of those games where the suspense is like, Are they going to kick it to, are they going to push the deficit to eight? Are they going to push it to seven? And then no, then the Clippers go up 20.

And you're just having that mental just like, should I watch this game? Should I not? What did you think about this game? Do you think you just had a hard time watching the Clippers dominate? No, no, I don't think so. Do you didn't compute to you as a potentially enjoyable experience? I have a complicated relationship with the Clippers. I think it's because I think that,

they're better than they are. I think that they should, with the talent that they have on their roster, they should steam roll through the playoffs. And maybe they just don't have the charisma. Maybe they just don't have whatever that I want in a postseason team, but it is a tough watch. What do you think? Let's just go into my mind, Sir, what do you think that I think about the Clippers? Because that was a funny question. What do you think? Well, I mean, you know, I think knowing your cheering history, Lakers, then like some Warriors. Like, it feels like you've had some affinity towards every California team except for the Clippers.

That's where I was coming from. It just wasn't a fun game to watch. But Kauai Leonard has hurt for the Ump Team time. Are you concerned about this? Because I just, I don't know. Because every time he goes down with a knee injury, like there's this, there's this collective. Oh my God, is he going to be okay? And then he comes right back up with Olympid scores 45.

Should I be concerned with this latest injury from Kauai? Like they took them out for the last five minutes, Tailu did. What a game that was kind of still in the balance? That could be concerning, but I don't know because it's Kauai. What do you think? Yeah, I don't know. I guess we'll just have to kind of wait and see. You never like a non-contact injury.

I mean, it just kind of leaves me with a conflicted feeling. It's a lot like the last game where team completely dominated and then just lost their best player and you're like, okay, well, now I don't really know how to see you guys. Because the clippers look really good. I feel like they have been that team for like the team that you have wanted them to be

for the last two games. Like they kind of, the jazz have not had an answer since game three. And it's just been like, you know, play smaller and, you know, make life really difficult for Gobert and just drive into favors. and be Kauai Leonard. Kauai Leonard, like, that's what makes it so tough.

Like, I really hope he's okay because, like, he actually, like, just flipped the switch and went until, like, complete Terminator mode, you know? Like, and he can do that, and he's been doing that. You know, we turn it on a little bit in Dallas, and he's turned it on now, and it feels like now he's probably realized that if he wants to carry this team, he actually, well, he has to do that. Like, you can't just kind of, like, you know, float through these moments, but then immediately gets hurt,

which is kind of why he tends to, I think, not do that. So I don't know. I'm curious to see if he'll be able to, I don't know. I don't know. We just don't really know what happened. It doesn't seem like the series turn when they did go small, though, right? When they did play the small ball lineup. And it's funny because Utah's anecdote to the small ball lineup,

or at least what they thought was, was to put Derek Fabers in and you just put in another big. Like, what do you think that the jazz can do to come back when the clippers go small? Yeah, I mean, the Favors minutes are such a big L for Utah right now. Like, Gobert had to come back in, like, really early in the third quarter. Like, you barely got any break. And I think that, like, probably impacted how things went in the fourth just because, like, every time Favors is in the game, PG and Kauai are just going to eat.

Like, there's, there's just like, that's just something they figured out in the matchup. I think at this point, like, they just have a confidence about it, too, where they're just like, yeah, we're just going to go with this guy and see what happens. You know, as far as responses they could have, I don't know. Like, that's kind of the issue with Utah. Like, that's what makes guarding a guy like Kauai or a guy like PG so hard for them is like they don't really have that, like, rough, you know, six, six, ten, six nine tweener type that can, like, help them play small and, like, take, like, some of the bigger matchups and stuff, right? Royce O'Neill is not going to get that done for you. He had a pretty good second half defensively, but he can't be like the small ball guy for them.

And I don't really, like, yeah, they don't have that guy. Well, how do you evaluate Gobert as a defender, right? Because he's obviously one of the best defenders in the league, but we see this time and time again that when you go into the postseason, and his kryptonite is when you play small against him. By and large, you saw that with the Warriors when, when Utah was playing them a few years back, and then you see that now,

how do you evaluate him as a defender? He's a great, he's a great rim protector, but I'm not sure that he always gets squisted around and picking rolls when it comes to the postseason, and he has to get attacked. So how do you evaluate him? I thought he was fine today. Like, I actually thought he had a really good start to the third quarter.

He was really dominant. You know, just trying to remember some of the plays now, but just not really like letting anybody get to the rim. And I think he's improved as a pick and roll guy. And certainly in this series, it just doesn't seem to be that big of a problem when he gets stuck on switches. Like, it's definitely not the most fun,

but it's not something that's terrorizing him by any means. I think it's tough for him sometimes when he has to guard Batum and then come back to the, to try to protect the rim. But for the most part, he's actually done a pretty reasonable job, honestly. Like, to me, it's the moments that he's not on the floor. But it's an interesting discussion, though. Like, I think for the longest time, defense was evaluated by, like, who protects the rim the best.

And it's still a really important part of the game. But, like, the game is changing so much that you do have to kind of be able to do everything. But, yeah, like, it's just not really, like, a question you used to hear, like, can this guy defend everybody? That wasn't, that wasn't, like, the criteria. Even in the days of, like, Dwight Howard, you know, like, that's, this is all kind of new. But it's an interesting discussion. I didn't vote a defensive player of the year. So, like, I'm kind of on that page.

But at the same time, like, man, like, rim protection is still, like, the most important thing in basketball. Yeah, but it's funny because, like, to your point about that, even, like, five, six, seven years ago, Amara Sheik was getting bags just because he could defend the rim in length. Oh, my gosh. The Turkish Shabbard. You see the vibes.

But now you have to defend the rim and guard all five positions now. And it's really a tough ass. even do. And it's just weird how we've evolved with that. I don't even know what the perfect defender is right now. Is it Draymond? Is it, I don't know. What is that right now? Is it Kauai Leonard? That's what, see, that's interesting, right? Because Kauai, I was going to ask about Kauai. And in game three in particular, they put Kauai on Donovan Mitchell. And it's weird when you do that because Kauai, it's Kauai when he was first two years on the Spurs, you could put him on the best guy because by and large, they just needed him to be a defender and while his offensive

game developed. Now he's a primary scoring option, so you don't necessarily want to put him on the other team's best player for all the time he's on the floor. So it's just weird how to balance that. I guess Kauai is, but then he's an offensive player and he could tire out. I don't know. Yeah, I think like the way the way the Kauai is used best is probably, being a help defender, especially in this series. Like, I feel like he's, he's swiped Mitchell from the side a couple times.

He can come with, like, the strong double on Gobert. He's at, in, like, his length, he has, like, one of the most incredible wings fans, which is why he was just able to yak all over Derek favors, which was, by the way, one of, like, I think the most important. The best ducks in NBA history. Maybe.

Dude. he went through his stomach. That's really hard. Yes. I've never, I mean, not from personal experience. It just looks really hard, you know? He had a bunch of those moments today where I just felt like the clippers weren't going to let them lose a game. And like back to the point of like you, you know, you said the game was boring.

It was just like. It was inevitable. Maybe not boring, but it was inevitable. You just kind of knew, you could look at the clippers and kind of know that they weren't going to let the jazz win this game, which was super impressive. because I think that like it would be a very clippers thing to like let the jazz shoot themselves back into the game, right?

The thing no was like for a second and a third quarter you kind of thought it. Right? You did, but that dunk was like one of the bigger moments that just like there were a couple moments where like Kauai especially he had he had that block on Mitchell coming back. He had a couple moments where he just swung the momentum back.

He hit some big threes. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like they, knew what was going to happen, right? Like, this is just what happens in the league now. Like, you just go up big because everybody can shoot. And these are, like, the two highest volume three-point shooting teams left in the playoffs.

They're going to have some lopsided results. And, like, for the jazz, you need to know, like, hey, let's be able to get through this. And I think they actually did a pretty good job of that. But the Clippers also, like, kind of respond to that knowing, like, hey, this lead is not actually as safe as we think it is. This is a really good team. They're can keep fighting back. But the clippers just didn't, like, they were so aggressive that whole game, just driving into the paint over and over again. Their defensive rotations were amazing.

Like, I feel like ever since, getting more is at the five, playing smaller, like, they're just, they just have like more synchronicity on both ends. And it makes them really, really scary. But, yeah, just not knowing, not having experience all of that and just like a really consistent Clippers game than to have Kauai get hurt. At the end, like, I don't know. It just kind of puts a damper on it. Like, it's just like this team is peaking, but there's his tension because like, you just don't know what it has to be healthy. But I think as long as Kauai is playing, there's going to be that tension, right?

Because he didn't know this since Toronto. He has knee issues. He has leg issues. That's just what it is. And it's the same thing with Embeddard. Like the Sixers are finding this new level. But at the same time, it's like they're due. The guy who makes it all go is just like he has so much on his shoulders and an injury history.

Like Kauai and. and Embed as two-way players are both just being asked to do so much in both series. Like, Embed has to defend Trey Young.

He has to, like, prevent the lob. He has to be an offensive threat, get like, you know, 10 post-ups a game minimum. He has to be a superstar, but he does as to have

superstar-type health that he needs, right? That's pretty much what it is. He has to do what he has to do, but he just, the health-wise, both of them may not be able to do it on a consistent basis.

And I think that also, that's why, at least for this Clippers team, that's why series may go longer than they're supposed to, right? Because you're not going to be able to get 100% out of these two players on a consistent basis. Is that fair to say, do you think? And be it and Kauai, yeah. Yeah.

Speaking of having a lot on your shoulders, Donovan Mitchell, right? Like, he has to score for this jazz team. Out of boy. But no, he has to score for this jazz team. And I just can't, like, they need, and I'm not sure if they need. you know, Conley get out of the series, I believe they do. But without Conley, a lot of pressures on Donovan Mitchell to score. And me, you know, me and Roger talk about this all the time. When your star, one of your star players are out, especially one of your scoring stars and one of your

facilitators are out, that makes a Roy Shung have to play, you know, out of his element. That makes a Joe Ingalls have to play out of his role. And I'm starting to see that with Donovan Mitchell, right? When he has to play out of his element too, has to score a lot. But it always seems like he's scoring just to keep them into the game. Does that, do you see more balance scoring coming back when they go back to Utah? Yeah, because, you know, role players always play a little bit better at home. And that is exactly, I think that's exactly kind of what happened, right? Like, you had that trickle-down effect.

And while Mitch Mitchell shot himself into the game and, you know, he's going to figure out a way to get his offense. Like that first half, they just needed way more from bogey and angles. And they just didn't get enough at all. changed in the second half, just a lot more aggression. Honestly, another, like, really, two really similar games in that, like, the first half and the second half for Utah were just so utterly different in terms of just effort and execution that it's hard to even, like, put the two against each other. But, yeah, like, I think they just needed more from both of those guys, and I think that's, like,

kind of where it impacts them the most. Like, Mitchell's a superstar. He's going to be fine, but, you know, like, getting Joe Ingalls, like, the secondary pick and roll on the side. that he can just go to work and like either he hits a floater or he's hit and hit and go bear like that type of stuff it becomes harder to get into those actions when you don't have like this setup man in conley and like mitchell getting gravity elsewhere um and also it just makes mitchell's life so much harder the guys like obviously like he was limping like for most of the fourth

quarter um like clearly tweaked his ankle a little bit there and just like was somehow continuing to get to the rim and like actually like just seemed to have have like pretty endless reservoir. Like also shout out to all like I know that it's not something that we need to valorize by any means. But like also like let's just honor how many enemies these dudes are like playing through like injuries right now. There are so many NBA players that are just like pushing through. It's crazy. Like you got Joyal and Bede with an actual by the way.

I don't know if you heard this, but Joel Embed tore his meniscus and he's playing basketball right now. Yeah. I couldn't get out of bed in with a tournament. I couldn't do it. I'm like tired from watching playoff basketball. Yeah. No, but it's funny because it's like we were talking before. We've watched a lot of basketball over the last year and a half,

but they played a lot of basketball over the year, last year and a half. And I know there's been stories out about injuries during this time, but like, man, there's been a lot of basketball to be played. And whoever wins this title, it's going to be one of the hardest titles you've ever win. And I don't even know it's going to be hard to repeat because there's, They're going to go from a July finals to back to normal. There ain't going to be no, you know, it's back to normal, back to October, I think a September

training camp. It's going to be, it's going to be a lot, man. And they're still carrying. They're carrying all of the fatigue from the previous season, too. Like, it's not like a lot of guys aren't really going to get a good rest for that. The one thing is like there is, most of the teams that are remaining in the playoffs didn't go deep into the bubble, which is, by the way. Duh, right.

Exactly. But yeah, it's just like, there's going to be so much. The Clippers would be the only one. If they get past this round, they're the only team to like to eclipse what they did last season, I think, right? Them are in the Bucks. Yeah. Yeah, but there won't be any team that repeats in the Eastern or Western Conference. Yeah.

I mean, I don't know. I think that's been, it's been weird to just go through this postseason where there's no, there's no old school stars, there's no Steph, there's no LeBron, there's none of these guys, there's a lot of younger players that we're kind of starting to get to know, and maybe that's different, right? Maybe that's what you don't really have a

star, star player that's been deep into the postseason, like a step for or LeBron, so it's been an adjustment, I think, just to even watch this postseason. It's been fun, you know, you see in Trey Young, you see the John Morant moments, but I don't know, man. It's just been a weird postseason after another weird postseason.

Were you getting old? I know I am. All right. On that note, let's say it's break. And we are back. I want to talk about a story that came out today, Siritt, from the homie of both of ours. Shout out Tim Cato from The Athletic, dropped a story on Luca Donchich. Him and Sam Amick dropped a story.

It was called Inside the Mavericks Front Office. Mark Cuban's Shadow GM is causing a rift with Luca Donchich. So the story centers around Luca Donchitz's relationship with Horelobos, Volgarius, the director of quantitative research and development. Now, Luca and a lot of people have beef with him. And this story pretty much reads like Luca wants to get this man about the paint. Would you agree with that? Like, how did you, when you first saw this story, what was your reaction on this series?

Because for me, it just seemed like, okay, Luca is trying to leak something. Lucas team trying to leak something and trying to get this out the paint. And I just don't know. It seems to go through this arc that we've seen with superstars, right? Where, you know, they get a lot of, they get success very early. Just want to test their leverage a little bit, right? Or just want to just be like, okay, I might not like this person. I might just test this real quick.

We've seen that. I think we saw that with, Yadis a couple years back, he had a story with ESPN was like basically, um, on certain terms, if we don't build a champion, I might consider leaving. Something like that. And it seemed like something along those lines. Like it's not, we're not, you know, we're not saying we're going to leave, but you know, it's kind of a bit of attention. Now, Luca has a $200 million extension about to come up that he can sign very soon in 2022. Should we, what should we worry about this story? story affecting that.

No. It's a lot of money. Yeah. But what should we take away from this story, right? And shout out to Amick and Kate over getting this story, the scoop. But what should we take away from this? Because all I take away from it is like, yo, Luca doesn't like this guy. And a lot of words saying that Luca doesn't like this guy.

Well, someone doesn't like this guy. Someone doesn't like this guy. doesn't like this guy. Including according to league sources, Luca Donchich. Because that's the whole hook of the story. Yeah, yeah. I don't think it doesn't really seem to go much deeper than that.

I think if you're Luca, you know, you probably do have to look at some of the moves that Mavs have made and say, hey, like, get me some help, you know? But at the same time, like, I think if you look at Dallas, like, this is just a franchise that started winning too soon. Luca just ended up being ready to go way before he should be ready to go. Like, these guys should be in, like, a rebuilding phase right now.

So instead of that, like, they're in this, like, awkward, try to get a bunch of guys that can help us contend sort of situation without really having a lot of the assets to do it, which is always difficult. I don't know. It's kind of strange because, like, obviously, like Donnie Nelson who is so like a good chunk of the article is kind of like about there seems to be this power friction where like you know Donnie Nelson has run the franchise forever and he was you know one of the biggest guys like pushing for for drafting Luca which it seems like pretty good move and between him and and Haralobos and basically seems like Mark Cuban might be a little bit in love with the guy that he hired and wants to just go with what he says which seems like a reasonable thing like you know we've had some

we had the Chandler Parsons situation with Mark Cuban it seems like sometimes you know he does get he definitely fall in love with dudes he definitely fall in love with him he falls in love with people yeah he seems like the guy that just like has a new best friend ever here

yeah but yeah so it's I can see him kind of just being like look guys like get your shit together because I'm going to sign this thing but I obviously want to win a championship and if you watch the playoffs I definitely need some help

but man like he's going to sign this contract and he's not going to be up until 2027 like this is just kind of like I think you're spot on Is he just testing just like you know just I'm putting you on notice right now yeah I mean look it's it doesn't even I wonder if it's even that deep you know

like I think as we all get older and like if you accumulate a little bit more power you want to just see where the like the line is you want to see what you can do with it I think Lucas playing with his toys you know Lucas playing with his toys he's seen what he can do Yeah he's again I mean I think

Hidden in all of this Hidden in all of this is Luca do be tested motherfuckas He does he does do that He very early on you know he did He had his little beef with Rick Carlisle right um and now this story drives and i'm not blaming luca for this it is it just seems like that's just seemed like what this is either a power struggle which it's a power struggle between

um donnie nelson this is how it reads and for context mark cuban tweeted out that this story was quote bullshit so um which i don't expect anything different if you read the story i don't think i wouldn't expect any different response from um mark cuban but you know i just that's what it seems like. We'll see what happens. I don't think much of it. It was, I think if Luca really wanted to push the button, he could have bro fired, honestly. Because who would you choose?

You would choose Heralibos or would you choose Luca Dodgich? Yeah. That's kind of, okay, that's the one thing that makes me kind of wonder if there's something else going on. Because, like, I mean, if Luca really hates this guy that much, you know, I just think he'd be probably gone. I don't know. Yeah, that's what it seems like. I don't know, man. It's just something to monitor.

Like, why is this story? Like, why is this a public story? You know what I'm saying? Like, well, it could have been an email. Yeah. Could have been an email. It could have been an email or a text. Could have been a text.

Hey. Hey, yo, um, Mark, yo, this is Luca. Yo, Mark, howl at me real quick. Yeah, I don't like the way things is going right here. You know, or maybe there was a call and he said, yo, you know, if you don't do this, I'm about to, you know, yeah. and then this came out. Maybe, I don't know.

But I just feel like, it's just an odd time story. It's all I would say. It just seems a little bit weird. Yeah. Have you ever seen anything like this happen and then it like go the other way and like the guy does leave?

I don't know. Well, I remember one. The biggest carolet of this, I think, is like LeBron in 2009, 2010. But Mike Brown got fired after LeBron left. No, didn't he get fired before LeBron left? left and then nobody would take the job because they didn't know if they were going to like have LeBron to coach or not. That's fair.

Oh, and then, uh, then Byron Scott took the job. It was something along those lines. But yes, like, yeah, like if he didn't, but that happened when he was about to leave. I don't know. It's, it's, it's interesting. It's just, it's just an interesting timing is all I'll say. Like, I don't, I just, it just seems a little bit weird. But.

Hey, man, flex, Luca. You know, do your thing. Like, just, you know, feel it out. You're entering a new world of power and just see what you have. It's funny because he's, He's had this power since he bawled out as a rookie, but we'll see what happens. You know, I just want to come into it. You got to like realize it, you know?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll see what happens. Okay, before we get out of here, I want to bring somebody to, to the show. Have you seen, Sir, you're on Twitter a bit. Have you seen this show in this bit of content called Packwatch? I haven't. Well, it's something by our CMO, our chief meme officer. Jomey.

Every time a team loses in the postseason, he puts them on Packwatch. And so we decided to bring that to real ones. And Jomey, you have two minutes to put the Denver Nuggets on Packwatch unenurrupted. You have two minutes. Let's talk about the Denver Nuggets. What do you have to say about that team? Well, the Denver Nuggets got swept by the Phoenix Suns. And it's honestly, it's tough, you know, with no Jamal Murray, you know.

I mean, I could go on. You know, I could talk about how Nicola Yolkits, you know, the league MVP literally went out swinging. You know, I could talk about Michael Porter Jr. You know, the only shot he won't take is the COVID vaccine, you know. Or I could talk about Aaron Gordon, you know. You can take the man out of Orlando, but you can't take the Orlando out of the man. Right. But what I want to focus is Pac Watch on.

I don't know if you guys saw the video floating around this weekend where these Suns fans and these Nuggets fans got into it a little bit. You know what I'm saying? Sons in four, right? You see? I saw a very interesting

video of where the dudes who we saw get beat up, right? The video's got 7.8 million views, right? They got packed up in that fight. They went on Snapchat and tried to

tell the world, oh, man, yeah. Oh, yeah, we won that fight. We beat that dude up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All that smack. Like, we didn't, like, we didn't see them dudes get clapped in 4K online. Man, we synced it. We sainted.

You went on there online. And now they used some colorful language that, you know, they shouldn't be using. You know what I'm saying? They was after acting a right full. And that's why they're on Pac-Watch. Thank you, Jemmy. Now, we have predictions. We have one game.

Cyrith. Tomorrow we have the Brooklyn Nets. Where's the Milwaukee Bucks? Game 5. Kyrie, we do not know when he is coming back. It's looking scary for Brooklyn right now. What is your prediction on that game? That's such a, it's a hard series to predict.

I think Brooklyn will win game five. Hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, Kevin Durant at home Actually I don't even feel that strongly about that Let me think about this While you think about that While you marinate on that

I'm gonna go with the Milwaukee Bucks Winning on the road I got PJ Tucker Playing just enough defense To help Kevin just off his rocker Just a little bit Kevin's like right at 50% I got that

And I got Yonis just saying You know what I'm gonna take this man I'm gonna take this You guys are under man And I really don't care So we're going to go with the bucks. Okay. Okay.

Do you think they'll let PJ defend KD as physically as he did, especially given like how big of a story that's been? We'll see. At home. We'll see. I made my pick, Sarah. I made my pick, sir. Yeah, I think, I mean, I think the Nets can take this game.

They're going to have to hit shots. I think Joe Harris is going to have to hit a lot of shots. Kevin's going to have to have one of those 50-point games tomorrow. He's going to have to want one of those. Well, they do have shooters and they have guys that can space the floor and play defense at the same time.

They can run. They've, like, managed to actually muck it up pretty good with the bucks. Like, they've been pretty physical. I think if they get hot, they can win. Kevin Durant's going to have to do everything.

But, like, Kevin Durant knows that. He's done everything before. We'll see. I still got the bucks. So who you got? You still haven't made your decision? Yeah, I'm taking the net. Okay.

All right. Well, there's been another edition of Ruins. Thank you, Sarah, for as a guest host. We will see you guys on Thursday. But first, make sure you check out Ringer MBA on all your social feeds. Make sure you check out everything on the Ringer MBA feed. That's group chat. That is the answer, which you can also, I think someone to co-host that.

Oh, that's CIRID. Syrit co-host The Answer with Chris Ryan every Friday. Make sure you check that out. Make sure you check out Black Girl's Songbook, which is on hiatus with Daniel Smithtown Legend. Make sure you take out R2C2 of Aal Legend C-C-Sathe. Make sure that you check out the Ringer Music Show. Check out Ringerverse.

Check out everything on the Ringer. On the Ringer feed. We will see you guys on Thursday. Holla.