The Ringer NBA Show - The Heat and Suns Handle Business at Home | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 5, 2022

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss the Suns putting on a clinic in the second half and pulling away from the Mavericks to take a 2-0 series lead (1:45). Then they discuss the Heat dominating the Sixers again at home and if the Sixers have any solutions to stop the Heat with no Joel Embiid (25:04).  Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre  Associate Producer: Isaiah Blakely  Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello, friends, it's Ariel Hawani of the Ringer MMA show. I'm Chuck Mindenhall. And I'm Pizzie Carroll, and together we are three-pack. Follow and listen to the Ringer MMA feed exclusively on Spotify for all the latest in the world of mixed martial arts. And join us live on Spotify Green Room after every big event. See you then. Love you. Welcome to another rousing edition of group chat after dark. I am Justin Barrier, joining me, Big Waze.

and straight from Miami. Benvenito, Rob Mahoney. Yeah, I'm running an experiment to see how much Covecce the human body can take. I'll report back in a day or so, but it's going very well. Rob, thank you for joining us at this late hour. I know that you have a due date at Live later. So, you know, thanks for carving out some time for us.

Yeah, the night waits, you know, hammer out this pod. Then it got plenty of time left. Right, it was. Do you have any advice for young Robert? tonight on the streets of Miami? You don't really need any. You know why? Because Miami doesn't close.

Like literally you can be out until infinity. So if you don't like something, go to the next one. Until your heart's full or something else. What a town. All right. Well, we'll get to why Rob is there. Game two of Heat Sixers in a little bit. Let's start with the game that just finished up here.

sons with a total just cut down of the Dallas Mavericks, 129, 109. This was looking like another Luca Magic opportunity. He went out for what, I believe it was 24 points in the first half. Then it got a little dice here in the second half. The sun just shut them down. Was, what did you see from this one? Where do you want to start? Man, you know, a lot of times I get to talk into who we call civilians,

people who don't work in our line of business. And they'll be like, what team do you root for? And I'm like, I don't root for a team. I don't really root for outcomes. And they're like, what do you root for then? And I'm like, excellence. And Chris Paul in the fourth quarter, that was excellence. Like, literally, I was on my couch going nuts because he was just perfect.

There was nothing the Dallas Mavericks could throw at him because, you know, he figured like, look, Luca Donchich is a wounded dog out there on defense because of fatigue, because of his load because he just, you know, he's not that type of defensive player. And he just proceeded to dissect this guy just methodically and mercilessly. It was ridiculous. Like when they just straight up kept Luca on him, he would just dribble past them. When they brought the screen up, they tried to double. Chris Paul would get it out quick for an open three.

They tried to meet him at the level. Freaking Cam Johnson's his fans out for a wide open three. They tried everything with this dude. And Chris Paul was like, nope, nope, Luca come here. I'm going to destroy you and baby you. You know, it's sad. They got to call child protective services for what Chris Paul did to Luca Donkins today. That was child abuse.

It was completely ruthless, you know? And that's what's so great about Chris Paul teams is the sons are just a ruthless executing team as a result of that. And, I mean, can you imagine getting the absolute business from Chris Paul for minutes on end? and then he checks out for a break and Devin Booker comes in? Like, what is that? So if you flash back to last week, we're coming off a rather shaky first round

for our Phoenix Suns here. Part of that was because Devin Booker was her, obviously. But like, things just weren't as sharp as we were used to. I mean, this was one of the most dominant regular season teams in recent history, especially when you consider how much, how many games they finished above the second team in the league,

which I think the second best record was the Grizzlies. I believe the margin, between first and second was larger than any team since the shack and Kobe Lakers. And so the Sons were a monster. They were a machine, but they didn't quite look like it. They finally look like it again. And I think the relevant reference point here is when Luca did this against the clippers, the clippers almost toppled.

But the Sons basically showed Luca as Waz was was explaining how you actually do this. This was an absolute like death by a thousand cuts. And I'm just like, I'm a little stunned. Because I'm just like so impressed. I'm almost marveling at what we just saw here. But we do have a formula now, right, of the best way to stop Luca Donchich, which is you got to wear him out. 48 minutes. You got to run as much action, make him defend as much and as often and as in as complicated action as possible.

And this is what happens is in the second half of these games, the Mavs offense is so blunt and so simplified at times that he's going to be exhausted by the end of that game. he's just not going to have enough left to blow by Bismac Biombo the way he needs to blow by Bismac Biombo. And that's going to result in some really stagnant fourth quarters for the Mavs. But let's be real, too. Like this was not just a fourth quarter problem in terms of the suns dominating this game. They shot 73% effective field goal percentage for this game. That's just absolutely sizzling, absolutely dominant.

And they do it in such a comprehensive way where it's not just CP. It's not just Booker. It's every guy working through the rotations, working through the ball movement. Like they have such a great sense of where to be in relation to each other and how to find each other at this point. It's very hard to, again, it's very hard to imagine the full strength sons losing, which is why we got so down when Devin Booker was hurt and trying to figure out it, is this their point of vulnerability? Because this team, I don't know.

I don't know what you do with that. Yeah. And to stay on the Luca point, a couple of things. One, you know, because we killed, I did personally, killed Donovan Mitchell and Mike Conley for what they did in half court defense at the point of attack against Dallas. Conversely, got to kill Luca for what he did tonight. Because it's only right. There's one thing to get destroyed by Chris Paul, but there were moments where Jay Crowder like three times in a row blew past him on a closeout. whatever you do, you can't compete by Jay Crowder on dribble penetration, right?

Like, that's, that's like a red flag right there. But it also needs to be said that Luca in the first half was incredible. He was as good as I've ever seen him play on offense. There was nothing Phoenix could do to bother him. You know, Mikhail Bridges, who is a lot of people's defensive player of the year this year, he had nothing for Luca. And Luca was cooking. He had the offense going.

There was a pass where he left his feet. And Davis Bertan sprinted up the right side on the baseline. And at the very last minute, Luca let it go to him for a pass. And he switched to three. And I was just like, how the hell does this guy even see that kind of stuff? So he had his moments where he looked incredible. But in the second half, it just, it was over. And, you know, it must be said.

Like, we've said it all year about Phoenix and just how incredibly good they are at executing. like Phoenix has counters to your counters to your counter. You know, like, because it's not like Dallas wasn't switching stuff up. They were really well-coached bunch. Jason Kidd and his staff, they have their team prepared to try different things when they're getting cooked by certain stuff. And just Phoenix just had all the answers. It was messed up, honestly.

Yeah, I mean, just to put into perspective, Luca had 35 points in this game, and the Mavs were outscored by 28 when he was on the floor. Just because of that execution. I mean, Phoenix just keeps coming at you every which way. So let's talk a little bit more about the Mavs here because I think it is an interesting discussion. I mean, I think the question is, are we right back where we were with the Mavs around

this time last postseason? Like, they went through this big overhaul. They traded Christos Porzingis. And I think you got to wonder, like, are they too reliant on Luca Dantich? Because, I mean, it's honestly ironic because they almost leaned into that as an identity at the trade deadline. But here we are kind of falling back in the same thing, where it seems like Luca is so incredible

that you do want to give him every opportunity to do everything, but at the same time, you can't do that and still beat a team as good as the sons. Rob, what do you think? It's the difference between zooming in on one possession and saying Luca can dominate this one possession and get any shot he wants, versus we're going to string a hundred of those possessions together,

and he has to do it over and over and over every time while also guarding on the other end of the floor. the maps just have a flow problem like in the flow of these games need to have more structure to get Jalen Brunson and Spencer Dinwiddie the ball in positions to attack that are not just you're in the corner and it swings to you

like they need to be more active participants in the creation of the offense and Luca needs to be able to contribute something when that's happening because right now he just kind of stands around as a spacer which is something but it would be great if he were a more active cutter if he were even if you were offensive rebounding if he were moving

off the ball even a little bit I know we want to conserve his energy under these circumstances, but you just have to have a more balanced offense. And having Luca bring the ball up every possession and run the same high pick and roll action, it's great in a vacuum. It's a great premise for offense, but you can't do it every time. Yeah, I think the argument for what they're doing is like, all right, take the ball out of Lucas hands in favor of what, right? Like is Jalen Brunson or is Spencer Dunwoody at the point of attack initiating, is that a better outcome than just straight up Luca ball? And I understand, you know, intellectually why you would have trouble wanting to do something else, specifically

against a team as great as Phoenix is, where it's like, do I really think Jalen Brunson's going to execute incredible offense against a set Phoenix Sun's defense? I understand the temptation to be like, I don't want to do that. At the same time, how do you account for this guy being gas at the end. Outside of conditioning, too, by the way, it's not like this dude isn't the picture of physique here, right? Well, I thought he got in such good shape in midseason. I heard that for one or two or a hundred thousand different people. Come on. Come on. Let's just say he's not treating the offseason like Jerry Rice and LeBron James, right? Like Jerry Rice is like, yeah, he needs to go vegan. He needs to start catching bricks in the mountains to make his hands

softer. Run some sand dunes and shit. Come on. But, you know, again, like I think conditioning will go a long way to help this. But, you know, I understand the hesitancy to be like, all right, Jalen Brunson running stuff, even though we haven't had Luca doing anything else all year is a better look. But, you know, I don't know how you argue for the result that they got tonight against the top of the sport. Is it possible that Jalen Brunson is giving away all the money that he earned in the first round? Like remember we were like, give this guy a max, but he goes three for 12 tonight. And I don't, I don't think this is a Jalen Brunson problem.

Let me be clear. But like, they needed somebody and he would have been the guy to turn to. And like, I'm feeling really apprehensive, I'll say, about turning the bag over to this guy and say, hey, B.R number two for Luca. I, look, I think his argument is that in the first round when I was able to establish a rhythm, all game, every single game while Luca was out and winning games and not just winning games,

executing in crunch time, late in games, and coming through for you guys, like I think he's proven that if given the chance, he could make that happen. I just don't think, because I think about the opposite,

not the opposite, but the only other time I've seen this work with somebody like Luca is Kyrie and LeBron, right? Where literally there would be possessions with LeBron would give the ball of Karin and just get the hell out of the way.

Right? Like, literally, we'd just throw it to him and just move. And in that worked, especially in the playoffs when it's like sometimes all you need is that one-on-one scoring. But at the same time, LeBron is this expert cutter. LeBron is great screening for people. LeBron had all these other skills off the ball. You know, he's good.

He's a lob threat. Like, I don't, you know, I don't know how this works for Luca in his pretext. present form how his game is. I mean, the Brunson thing I thought was pretty persuasive in the first round in terms of, as you laid out, Justin, when he is a focal point, this is the kind of results you can get in certain kinds of matchups. Like, not every matchup is going to be for him. But the Luca James Harden comparisons are just getting started because as long as he plays

this way, there's going to be that natural point of tension between incredible, dominant offensive creator and the reality that there are going to be guys who need to feel the ball in order to be effective and there were guys who played on those Rockets teams who really did not like that style of play for that reason who felt

like they needed to be more in a rhythm even just to knock down catch and shoot jumpers. I think the Mavs have been great sports all year long and they know how valuable Luca is but like no one's asking Reggie Bullock to attack off the dribble per se but

Brunson and Dinwiddie, that's those guys' roles. That's their future on this team is investing in that kind of infrastructure. Also, the counter example is in this game. It's Chris Paul. In the first half, he's not as ball dominant as he was in that fourth quarter. In the first half, he's letting other guys do it, figuring it out, picking his spots, and that's why in the fourth quarter he has enough left in the tank to take over and make a complete fool out of, you know, a phenom, right? Like, that's the example.

It's like, look, I'm not just hogging everything all first half and all third quarter. I'm letting everybody else be involved in doing our continuity stuff. And then in the fourth quarter, I can take over. And I think Luca would be smart to heed that example in the future. Chris Paul is just ridiculous in that way. Like, he's been doing that forever to the point that I remember, I remember writing literally a decade ago where Ty Lawson said, this is what Chris Paul does. he takes it easy, he facilitates for three quarters, fourth quarter he's taking over, charted Chris Paul's stats, it was exactly that.

And yet here we are in the year of our Lord 2022, in the year of our point God, 2022. And Chris Paul's just dominating in exactly the same way he always has. Yeah, and that's probably why they looked mortal in the first round is because I know we talk about this with the warriors all the time, especially the dynasty warriors, where they went eight or nine deep. But it seemed like any time you took away like one of those Hall of Famer, or even like a Sean Livingston or an Ecuador, whatever. They always complained like, oh, we don't have enough.

We need to get that extra guy. And I was always a little skeptical. I'm always like, you have so much goddamn talent. Why are you complaining? It reminds me a little bit of the Sun's team where they lose Booker. And Paul just has to do a little bit more, right? And that was enough to almost like throw their equilibrium off. Equilibrium.

That's a tough word. It's just like they found something with not only their five, if they're starting lineup. But with like the guys that come there, like the eight or nine. And it's just like if something goes off there, it just seems like they are off. But like as a whole,

if everyone can stay healthy, it seems like this team is going to be tough to be. I mean, not to turn too far ahead, Rob, but like, how are you feeling about the suns now? I mean, they're tremendous.

They're a great team. And this was, this wasn't even like, like, DeAndre Aten is in foul trouble for a chunk of this game. This was his least effective game, maybe in the entire playoffs.

And they just got great Bismack, Biombo minutes out of nowhere, because that's what the structure of this team can give you, not to undersell Aiton. I think he's been tremendous. He's been incredibly important. Please don't undersell Javelle McGee, please. The man blocked the three-pointer in the corner,

which I was just like, that's incredible. And then he dimes somebody up. No look behind the pass from the top of the key. He's having a wail of a postseason right now. Shouts to Javelle. But then he also, like, three days later. He got four-point play. He did baseball.

pick Lucas pocket the other game too. Yes, he did. So he's still in that positive. Yep. Yeah. I guess. Actually having a backup center is good because we saw, like in the finals last year, how much they just completely fell off after Dariusarich.

Former process asset. Remember we called Dario Sarich an asset and he made Sam Hinkie a genius for like years? Is he even in the league anymore? He's injured. Dario Sarich is a good player. Oh, my bad. A good player. My fault.

trust the process. For the record. We need to do like a whole like Viking funeral for all of the process, like players that came and went and were billed for like stardom and or to be like high level role players with that team that are no longer there because good Lord, our Sixers need just somebody. Anybody to do it. Roco was the first posted child, I feel like. Yeah, there's some still kicking.

Ish Smith's still around, you know? Smith will always be around. Yes. Anything else more from Mavsons or do you want to turn to the early game? I just want to say, I think, look, I think Phoenix is going to pull the series out. I think the next round is just going to be fascinating, basically no matter who the opponent is, because Golden State just presents so many different problems because, you know, defensively, they're going to make Phoenix, like, actually exert themselves in a way that the Mabbs don't

because of how their offense is structured. And, you know, Memphis is just shown, like, energy-wise, like, they're just going to make you they're going to make you bring it. So I think next series is going to be fantastic. And I'm just happy. Like every series basically excluding what's happening between Philly and Miami from here on now is going to be incredible theater. So I'm really happy about that. Can we talk for a second about the flagrant foul on D'Andre Aidan?

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. He was just like moving his arm up. The call was flagrant. Like this dude's head is at his elbow. And then, by the way, he faked it. He got hit and then he did the, oh, like he got shot thing. It was ridiculous, man.

Like, this is the playoffs. Somebody needs to get these dudes in a room and be like, you know how we used to like let people get filed and it be fine? And the game was different, more physical. Like, when you got to the lane, you could expect some type of contact. And if it wasn't egregious, we just basically play on because it's the playoffs. Yeah, let's get back to that. Please. Please.

Because all of these fouls and these dudes. with the review and the headphones and Tony Brothers thinks he's the freaking Michael Jackson of the NBA playoffs. Like, bro. Look, the man has stage presence, you know? It's exhausting, dude. Yeah, the balance of what contact is allowed right now is completely out of whack in a very bad way, I think, for the sport. Because if the most reliable way to defend is just to literally stick your face in there and hope you get hit and hope you get a flagrant that way. Because what defenders are allowed to do with their bodies and their hands,

they can barely get away with anything. But you stick your face in there and you're going to get two free throws in the ball and a turnover. I just don't like the balance of where the officiating is in that regard. But I understand why they're trying to protect those guys. Obviously there's been some legitimate flagrants. The Gary Payton flagrant, absolutely a flagrant two foul, for example. But some of these other ones, just a little soft. J-Mond wasn't flagrant to 8.

wasn't a flagrant at all. No. It's just, it's just, it just goes on and on and on where they're over calling it. And then they're doing this minute detail. Like, how about this? I don't know if this is achievable politically, but how about we just scrap it? Instant replay. Get out of here.

And Adam Silver says, these guys are professionals. I trust the courage of their convictions. We're rolling with it. Sometimes it's going to be, sometimes it's going to be fucking. You're trusting Chris Paul to call fouls on the, of the reference? Of the rest. Not get rid of reps. Get rid of replay.

Like, these guys are, like, they're paid, literally paid to call the game. Let them call the game. And human error, guess what? It's always been a part of every single sport. And we were just fucking fine. Like, nobody was crying about this shit before replay. I don't understand this. What if we almost went with a half measure, like an in between what we have now and what

you're suggesting? thing and we go to an NFL style where the coaches get two to three challenges and that's it. There's no like just doing this based on what the refs think. I like that. It's actually the coaches have to use it and then it becomes a little bit more strategic. I like that. That's a good compromise. You were a good politician.

There you go. The only issue is weren't they doing a version of this flagrant thing before? It seems like they're reviewing the flagrant potential a lot more than usual. But before, I feel like flagrant has been a reviewable thing. for a while. Yeah. But maybe they were just reviewing it for like scuffle situations, fights and stuff like that to determine who was guilty of whatever.

But not so much on plays like this one, for example. Yeah. Maybe they're just like overreacting to the Memphis game and there are probably more today than usual. I feel like there are more flagrant reviews specifically than we do get in the past. But the whistles have just been awful this entire post season. Like if it gets to the point where we're now talking about it and it's like interrupting every game, I do think there has to be like,

meeting to be like, guys, can we just like do this? Because the entertainment product is just way worse. Like, in addition to what you're saying about how it affects the gameplay, like nobody wants to watch this. And just like so many starting stops already with all the extra commercials during the playoffs and everything and all those eight. We see

what's our guy from the Rams all the time now? Like, just no more. Get it out of my playoffs, Adam Silver. I know you're listening. The playoffs are heating up and you can make every game feel like games on Fandul Sportsbook, an official partner of the NBA.

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1-800 next step, or text next step to 533-4-2 in Arizona, 1-888-889-77-7-7-7, or visit cpg.org slash chat in Connecticut, 1-800-9 with it in Indiana, 1-8777-70 stop in Louisiana, 1-8-78-Hope-N-N-Y or text Hope N.N.Y to 46737-369 in New York, Tennessee redline 1-800-889-9-9-7-8-9-1-800-5-2-2-470 in Wyoming or visit www.1-800 gambler.net in West Virginia. All right, let's go to the early game. A game that, Rob, you were in attendance, right?

I was, yeah. Right. How did the Dos Minuto sound in person? God, I don't even know if I heard the Dos Minutos. Maybe it was drowned out, you know, by the historically lively Miami home crowd, you know? Do you have Bernie's number? Do you want to text them real quick? Oh, my God. Bernie, Bernie did a weird Darth Mall Star Wars inspired dance today that was among the most cursed things I've ever seen in my life. So please, whoever came out with that, please stop. All right. Well, we'll get to that maybe in the back end of the podcast. So Heat 119, 103 over the Sixers.

Rob, why don't you give us the view from not courtside, but wherever you were sitting? I mean, I think the view is the Sixers don't have a great supporting cast right now, that Joelle Embed is the player who makes a lot of this roster makes sense, and then without him, you're just left with a lot of different voids. And they're trying to plug them, not very effectively, just given the personnel they have. This one, I think they were really just undone by the fact that their shooters, or they're quote-unquote shooters, the guys who are designated for that job, did not make shots.

George Nying and Danny Green in particular, Danny Green went one for nine. One for nine from three for Danny Green in this game. That's brutal. And a lot of those were really good looks. And so I think the heater clearly the better team as these teams are currently constructed. But any chance that the Sixers had of winning came in left with those threes, really. So I'm not going to lie.

I'm kind of passively watching this game because the Sixers is so overmatched. And every time Tobias Harris did anything, I think it was Jim Jackson that was on this call. So the announcer was just like, ah, Tobias Harris, man. He really gets up for these, these Miami Heat games and blah, blah, blah, blah. And then like by the fourth quarter, I looked up, he was six for 15 for 15 points.

I was just like, what, like, what are we really supposed to be doing here? You know, like him and Hardin are essentially supposed to be driving this, allegedly if you went by their pay scale. And it's Maxi that's showing up for the Sixers in a meaningful way. It's tough.

If they don't have Joelle, they can't win in the series. That's just the reality of this. And there's moments where the heat is sort of playing around with them and let them have a little fun. But realistically, they can't do this without Joelle. However, I've just seen that the Sixers are minus one right now. So their favorite to win that home game three, which tells me Joel, we'll be back in game three.

So we read the Danny Green's that line. we haven't really gotten to the two others, which are some of the most putrid individual basketball I've seen in postseason in recent history. George Nyang, six fouls in 10 minutes. Now what you want? Almost got a double double. And then Matisse Thibel, 21 minutes, zero shot attempts

over, let's see, what it is it? Well, also zero people guarding him this entire game. Yeah. He'd have no interest. in guarding Matisse's time. One shot in 36 minutes over two games here. There's just no respect for what Matisse is doing. And it hurts me because he's my fellow countryman,

but he's getting, it's embarrassing what they're doing. Like, they literally don't even think about it. You know, sometimes a team will get put in rotation and the guy is sort of feign in the direction of the guy that is wide open in the corner, strong side or weak side, whatever. With Matisse, they don't even, I don't even do that.

Like, I'm not moving. It's messed up, man. He's just, he's been exposed. He's got to figure out a way to make a couple of shots. So to justify at least some of his minutes, man. But this series is not it. And Miami's the type of team that it's not just that they have the great coaching. They have the veteran know-how who, you know, like, they always rotate to the right guy.

They always basically ignore the right guy. They always stick to the right guys. So, yeah, and even when they vary in their coverages and pick and roll, like they vary it depending on who the actual pick and roll ball handler is instead of a one-size-fits-all approach that you see with more younger amateur clubs, they're just outmatched the Sixers are. Yeah, guys like Thibald and like DeAndre Jordan and like Paul Reed are when make it so tough to judge what James Hardin is or isn't doing in this series

because every time he has the ball, there's basically three, sometimes four defenders geared specifically to him, all shading in his direction, all packing the paint, all inching off of their guys on the perimeter. Because you just don't really have to guard any of these shooters right now.

And so that results in a game like this one, we're Hardin, I think, I think took, or so I think made one shot in the second half. You can't win that way. Like there's a middle ground here between Harden seeing a lot of pressure and trying to make the right plays

and running the show. I thought he made some good passes in this game, but contrast his performance with Chris Paul's takeover, with John Morant's takeover. Like those are defenses geared to those guys too, and they found ways to not only make the right passes out of pressure, but to be really effective scorers, too. Hardin doesn't have that right now.

Like, he just is not hitting that gear in terms of his own individual shot creation in a way that's going to sustain the Sixers. And so they're left in this position where, I think Tobias has played, played well enough for them to win. I think Tyrese has played well enough for them to win. That's their second and third best guys under these circumstances.

Everyone else is basically not fulfilling the role that they need to fill Hardin and then all the way down, all the role players who are filling out the rotation in this game just aren't good enough right now. Yeah, it's weird to say, but I don't think Hardin is at the top of the call sheet of their issues. No. But in a more macro sense, he is the biggest issue because he shouldn't be lumped among this group. He should be providing more than 20 points and nine assists. He was efficient,

but he actually needs to be putting up more than 15 shots. He should be taking 30 in a game like this. I don't know why the Sixers won't go smaller in order to emphasize Hardin in order to perhaps get him some more space. But, I mean, we ultimately end up here back at the Hardin conversation. So why, as I ask you for the 37th time here, what do they do about James Hardin? In the offseason? Or this series? I mean, let's start with a series. Let's just settle in here. Like, everyone get a good glass of wine, like maybe settle into a bubble bath.

We're going to go through everything here. I mean, for the series, look, if he's going to be this tentative. And, you know, look, Rob said it. A lot of it is they're shading towards him. But at the same time, like, yo, hit him. You know, like actually attack those gaps. Make them actually commit. Don't just pass out and say, oh, they're shading me.

There's nothing I can do about it. Actually make them work, move them side to side, you know, actually make them exert themselves. That would be nice to see. But at the same time, man, and I know Sixers fans have been on me about Maxi for a while, but like, he's the dude with the juice on the ball. And if James Hardin is going to pretend that he's too freaking good to, you know, exert himself for this series, they need to just let Maxi do it and be like, you know what, James, you're off the ball now since you're just so calculated.

and smooth and whatever, we're going to give it to the young guy and see what he could do for us because they're out of answers right now until Joel and B comes back. So as far as the series, to me, it's like if this is what he's going to do on the ball, get him off of it, let's see what Maxie can do, give him the reps against this type of playoff defense, and see what the young fella has inside of him. Well, I'll give hardened credit for this. I think part of the reason Maxi gets 34 points in this game is because he's attacking second side. stuff, right? He's attacking

on the move, catching on the move, catching on the weak side, and then pushing in transition where he was unbullying. I mean, just beating everyone down the court, great finishes all game long. He was great. But to unlock either of those guys, like, we have to have to have the small ball conversation. We have to talk about the rotation stuff that the Sixers are doing. That's a little

weird, including, to quote Doc Rivers, like it or not, I'm going to start DeAndre Jordan in game two. Well, offensively, for a few minutes, it worked the first. The first thing wasn't bad. Because if you don't have the shooters really to support a small ball lineup,

which the Sixers probably don't, like I understand getting, in air quotes, in very, very, very heavy air quotes, a vertical spacer in order to try to unlock James Hardin Rockets like 1.0 style with a Klingekepella type, again, in air quotes. Like, at the very least he could do that.

He can dunk. Didn't work. defensively, certainly, and it did not work overall yet again. But Doc did reluctantly, presumably, go to more of a small ball lineup. It didn't help that George's Nyang followed out almost immediately.

This is the thing is like everyone is going to talk about the small ball and Doc should play small more. I'm in total agreement, conceptually. Dandre Jordan should not be playing in this series. You should be starting Paul Reed, George Nyang, whoever you want, somebody else. But it's more complicated than it seems because Paul Reed is smaller,

but it's not like anyone is guarding him either. Nyang, as we mentioned, fouled out of this game in 10 minutes. There was a point in the fourth quarter where Doc went to Tobias Harris at the five, which is, I guess, theoretically, about as small as they could go. Here's what happened immediately after that.

Bam out of bio gets a lob for a dunk. The heat turnover James Hardin in the back court immediately, and then on their next possession, miss, but get the offensive rebound, and then Max Drews hits a three. Immediate Doc Rivers timeout. Like, that's the kind of stuff that's going to happen

if you have Tobias at the five. I don't know what you're supposed to do other than not play DeAndre Jordan. Like, again, put someone else in that spot, give his minutes away to somebody else. But it's not like any of these other guys are great shakes. It's not like you have great options

in terms of filling out a five rotation without him. They're stuck. Like, unless Joel comes back and comes back and is great, they're stuck. Five out, put the keys in the hands of the young buck and bomb away from threes because the high variance thing

is really your only fucking chance at this point against a heat team who's just like, look, we're locked in, we know exactly what you want to do and they got the horses to stop them. Some bad news, though, they shot 27% on threes in this game. It's so bad.

The bombs away. The optimist, like, POV is just like, Danny Green is not going to miss eight three-pointers again. And the Calvary. is on its way. Like,

Joel is coming back. He's not done for the series. Because the update from Chris Haynes in the middle of the game was that like he texted him and he got to his phone for the first time because the light was bothering his eyes. And like I immediately cut to like the scene on the court

where there's just like this glimmering like beige court and all of these like white shirts up in there. I'm just like if his phone is causing him this much issue, like how the hell is he going to see a pass from James Hardin? I don't know. Like, it's hard to tell when Bede's going to come back, but like, can he even save them? They have to win four or five right now. Game three is not till Friday, my brother.

So what, he has, he has one night, one day and a night to really lock in, maybe get some goggles with, like, the black ones. Get the black light goggles. I was going to say tape some aspirin to it, but I guess, am I saying tape aspirin to his eye? I don't even know where you would tape it. Well, I mean, have you seen. anything, Rob, in this game to suggest that Embed with one eye can do the improbable and turn this series on its head. I mean, I think the argument is that the heat haven't played great. Oh, yep. Their half-court offense, it hits walls, it gets awkward, it gets clumsy,

and the fact that Embed being out has allowed Bam out of Bio to basically be the best player in this series so far, both ways. Offensively, he's been tremendous, just working guys over. defensively, as great as you would expect. Like honestly, my favorite matchup in this series is Bam getting the switch and picking up Tyrese Maxi and trying to dance with him on the perimeter. It's been amazing to watch. But so if there's anything that the Sixers can do to neutralize Bam's impact, it's bring Joelle back in some usable form.

Just that size, his deterrence inside will prevent Bam for going up for some of those easy dunks and stuff. He gets off offensive rebounds and things like that. That's kind of where I think they could make some hay, even with a more limited version of Joel provided he's able to look at the bright light of a phone screen and God forbid the bright lights of an arena

hopefully he's he's able to play and healthy enough to play where that's a thing that makes sense but they need him. They just need him out there. Yeah, man, if Joel Abed was healthy, this is an evenly match series if not you might even give the edge to Philadelphia

you know, so I don't see why they couldn't be ultra competitive the minute he comes back. Yeah, I'm looking around at Miami throughout the course of the game. I'm like, what is really like super encouraging here? Like, Jimmy Butler still seems like he's laboring a bit. He played well statistically in this game. I hate that he doesn't want to take these practice threes.

He used to take those all the time. And I don't understand why he doesn't want to take these threes that he's walking into. Maybe he's saving it. I don't know. But like, I would like to see him just let it fly. He's not this like, I don't know. he's not like Rajan Rondo or like, you know, like some ish Smith from three. You know what I mean?

Like I don't understand why he's not letting this thing fly. Yeah. I mean, Bam obviously played well. He's been their best players. Rob alluded to. I mean, Hero's just doing what Hero does. Yep. I mean, the real encouraging sign for the heat is probably Victor Oladipo looking semi-Olo-Dipo-ish,

being very active on the defense event and being pretty good offensively. I think he was close to the high score in this game. Yeah, he had 19 points and six rebounds. Up close, Rob, does El Depple seem like he has some of his juice back, most of his juice? Obviously, more some. I'm not as optimistic about him, like, from a process standpoint, as I think some people were coming away from this game. Like, to me, defensively, he's good to have, but I don't know that he's like a huge upgrade over,

even guys like Max Struz, for example, who I think are competitive defenders. Ola Depot is okay. I think he's more athletic. He has a little more burst than those guys, but on offense, he's not a guy who blows by you anymore. He's a guy who has to go reverse on his layups because you're going to block him if you don't.

And so it's like, can he get enough space and enough separation to create and to hit those shots when it matters? Maybe some nights more than others. I think he's going to be kind of a touch-and-go type player. But if he can knock down jumpers like this, that's huge. Like, it's the combination of slightly better defense,

slightly more handle, and if he's also hitting shots, that's a great night. Yeah, I just don't need a lot of these tools. You know what I mean? Like these mid-rangers, I don't need it. I don't, I just, there's enough of that elsewhere within the Miami Heat's offensive ecosystem. There's like, Deepo, I know you want to rewind the clock, get your money, I get that, but for the purposes of winning, we might want to chill. Yeah, if Kyle Lowry plays in this game, which we should mention he didn't even play,

Is Oladipo in the rotation anymore? Because Duncan Robinson can't get off the bench in this series. Yeah, I think Oladipo is pretty extraneous if you have Kyle Lowry. And especially if Tyler Hero is playing this well, like if Heroes having a game where he's getting hunted, then maybe you can turn to Oladipo as a kind of alternative and safety net there. But Lowry does a lot of the stuff Oladipo does in a different way, in terms of handling, in terms of facilitating more so than creating for his own scoring.

But I think that's ultimately a much healthier thing for the heat to have. Yeah, I was wondering during this game, though, what Oladipo's career looks like from here. Like, is this pretty much it where he might be a sixth man? Is there like, I guess we can't play doctor. Yeah, right? Like, I was trying to like find a home for him. Like, I was wondering, like, could Philly use a little bit of off the bench juice? I mean, shooting probably doesn't help their problem.

But like, a lot of teams can use him. But I guess the problem is probably at a reduced cost. Like, if he wants to be the veteran. minimum six man on like the clippers for instance that's like a great role for him but if he wants to get anything else you're probably looking at the king or something. Milwaukee who has like no ball handlers. That's a good one. On their team.

You know what I mean? Like somebody who can do something with the rock in their hand. Like God bless Javon Carter, but watching him dribble, I'm just like, my God, dude, have you ever ran a pick and roll before? So, yeah, like a team like that that's like completely bereft of dudes that have at least some kind of juice on the ball would be cool, you know? I think what makes it tough, though, for the idea of him as a sixth man. Like, you think of the heat.

When Tyler Hero isn't playing well, that's painful for them. Like, that's a real cost, and they really rely on his creation and his shooting. And the same is true of any great sixth man who's offensively inclined. Game one of this series, Ola Dibo had five points. He shot two of eight from the field. He was not good. I think that's the kind of player he is right now, is like, once every two or three games, he's going to have a good night.

And can that guy be a go-to sixth man in the NBA? Maybe, I think it depends on the quality of your team, but ideally you would want him to be a little bit more reliable than that. Can we check in on Tyler Hero really quickly? Because I think before this game, he was handed the sixth man of the year trophy,

which is apparently like a crystal basketball. Yeah, it's not a great trophy. Has that always been the case? I don't remember that. It's better. Which one is the most improved? The one that has like the and one logo looking generic guy on it. There's some really bad trophies.

We need a trophy makeover. That video, that video of Desmond Bain opening his gift for most improved from John Morant. Like, I've never seen somebody more disappointed and underwhelmed to receive a gift. He's like, oh, I got a gift. Oh. And he's like, oh, yeah, this is, this is great. This is like when your grandmother bought you that turtleneck from the gap on your birthday and you were supposed to pretend.

that you liked it. I didn't see it. I was fired at the Gap. You were eight years old. You weren't into Turtlenecks back then. Now, turtlenecks are fine. Look,

Gap, if you sponsored this podcast, we'll rescind that comment, but only when you do. But with Hero, I'm curious, like, where are we on the trajectory

of young Tyler? Like, has he settled into anything more than Super Sixth Man? Do we see him as a potential, like turn the keys over for the franchise to him eventually type of player? I don't know about all that because I don't think he's that type of table setter, right? He's obviously, like, he's not as good as, say, like, Devin Booker at scoring, right?

And so when you're not that good, we'd like to see you be some type of facilitator or setup guy. And he's not really that good at that either. However, like, he scores in such a diverse multitude of. ways, like, that's a dope piece, man. Like, what he can do off a pick and roll, one-on-one, mid-range, floater range, deep threes, like, he's at every single level he has a way to get a shot off. You know, I think that's very valuable, but, like, turn the franchise over. Well, here's a better question.

Would you rather have Maxi or Hero from this point forward? I think, see, that's a good comparison. Like, they're in a similar class to me. whereas I know Tyler Hero fancies himself in the John Morant, Luca Donchich class, that's not a thing. And that's kind of the thresholds

you're talking about. To turn the franchise over to somebody, if you're going to be this level of defensive liability, you've got to be Luca Donchich. You've got to be Tray Young. You've got to be that great to be a franchise level guy and also a liability.

I think he is in the maxi range of like could be a really, really good offensive player, going to be kind of a wild card depending on your matchup. Like they both need to evolve their feel in terms of how they manipulate the game, how they understand matchups. Because like, who's the back court you put them in, right?

Like, you know, I think about somebody who's incredible at defense, say like a Drew Holiday, who's setting up your offense, right? Like, do you have some type of ball dominant wing that you don't need the pure point guard, the table setting situation? Like, I wonder who you, even what type of player you pair him with in the back court. You can't pair him with a Luca, you know, that type of guy. Like, you can't pair him with, you know, a ball-dominant guy who is it great at defense already. So it's interesting.

I don't know, you know. But he's still a young guy and he still has stuff to figure out. And you wonder if there will ever be a day where even if he's not physically as gifted as some of our best defensive players that he, like, knows where to be and doesn't die on every single screen? Like, that would be nice. We don't ask too much, you know? I feel like he can get to that point eventually. Well, with Hero, I wonder if Lowry could be a perfect compliment.

I don't know if, like, there are timelines align, really, but, like, Lowry could be the pit bull on defense. He could be the table setter on offense and let Hero shine without actually needing anything or taking away from anything from him. I think that's the ideal setup is like you put him with a really good defensive guard, whether that's Lowry, whether that's, you know, like in a hypothetical scenario, like a Marcus Smart type guard. Right.

There you go. And then you have a wing who is a better score than Hero. That's kind of the balance. You want him to neither be the best playmaker or the best score in your team. And when he's in that kind of role,

that's where he really shines. Anything else from this game? How are we feeling about the heat overall? I mean, I want to see Lowry back. I want to see how he looks when he comes back. Do we have a timeline there, by the way? Rob, anything? No.

No timeline. It's not great. The heater is KG as usual. So I want to see what they got coming back. But they're, shoot, man, they two wins away from the conference finals. They have the time to sort it out and make sure that he's as right as he can be to gear up for that series.

So I'm good. But what I was going to say on the Philly side, you know, it dawned on me, man. Like, there's no reason for Mori not to Max Hardin out. Because it's like we got the blueprint already. I traded for Russell Westbrook didn't work and I said leaving for personal reasons

and then I just got another job like I blew up that situation terrible cap situation you know horrible just a horrible situation over there superstar disgruntle all of that and then I retired and got a better job and so you know like it's not like he's going to be there

to see the end of Cardin's contracts it was like why wouldn't he do something that terrible. Was, if you ever leave this podcast and say if it's to spend more time with your cat, just know we're going to know what's up. We know. That I'm leaving you guys for bar stools secretly.

Listen, there could be an opening in the Lakers front office. We could bring this full circle and he could trade Russell Westbrook off of that team. It's just like he just has to have a good personal relationship with Phil Jackson apparently because that's what's going to get you the job. Yeah, I mean, the Harden thing is weird. Obviously, we've talked about it a bunch. like some weird rumor circulating today that there was like a wink wink agreement that he would take less on whatever extension he's going to sign. Good Lord, I hope so. Because I think if he signs

a full max, it might be one of the worst contracts in the history. He's got no zip. Like there was a little bit in the second quarter, but like he just has nothing. By the way, people who've been listening to this pod since earlier this year will remember that we had like a hot take, early season the hot take or something segment. And one of my takes was, yo, James Hardin is not a max player anymore. Everybody's like, come on. People are going to give him the fucking offer him a deal, blah, blah, blah, blah. Then we watched this dude.

And, yeah, he better. He better. He better. He better. Like one podcast, we should just go through every take that we've ever given. No, no, no, no. Well, light it out all the ones we got wrong. But you know, what's funny is he needs to get in touch with Chris Paul and figure out how he got

his hand me right, what he did to do. like what it took to to get right? Because Chris Paul is looking spry. This is a little like advertisement for veganism, I think, this podcast. Everyone just needs to go vegan. They'll be fine. We talk about every week. Veganism or Germany, whichever one you want to pick.

Yeah. I don't know. It's dicey. I heard Dusseldorf is really nice in the summer. Sure. A lot of logs there. Yeah. anything from like seeing him up close and personal, Rob, that like jumps out to you or just like any thoughts in the situation?

I actually, you know, I would be a little more optimistic, a little more bullish on his performance in this game than you were. I think Justin. I agree he doesn't have the pop that he used to, but I thought he finished better in this game than he has in a while. And so the combination of like the difficulty of the defense, the pressure he's seeing and finishing under those circumstances, I thought he was, he was okay. He was okay to pretty good. The problem is they need him to be great. And I don't know that he's capable of being great in this kind of series. He's an incredible passer. Like, there was, I forgot one player was, but he's just like, he could see things and you could hit guys in ways that people can't.

Just the problem is, like, that's not worth $40 to $50 million. He should be making, like, role player money at this point. It's just, that's not going to happen. Okay. Roll player money seems awfully strong. He's still really good. He's just not MVP James Harden anymore. That's very clear.

So where does he fall in the spectrum of, you know, useful NBA player to still all NBA or like high level All-Star? That spectrum is going to be very instructive over the next year in particular as they're getting Joel back as they are kind of resetting their aspirations. He needs to be really good. Like he needs to be an All-Star Plus level player. He's that sometimes right now. Well, role players get the max in Philly.

So he would still be making a lot of. a lot of money. Shots fired at Tobias. Come on. We can't go to a single podcast without taking a side to type at Tobias. All right. Anything else here? Rob,

do you want to talk about Zach Levine again? I do now want to talk about Zach Levine. Can we just like do a little accounting from last week's podcast where mere hours after we talked about one Zach Levine? Then we pooled your Zach Levine being gone? Yeah. And Rob discounted the possibility. that Levine could leave.

Actually, I think we have a clip, Isaiah, if you want to remind Rob of what he said. Absolutely not. Guys, this is not going to happen. Huh. Seems pretty definitive. But right after, there was a tweet from the Chicago Bulls account of Levine

talking about his future. And it didn't seem to be. too thrilled about sticking, staying put in Chicago. Rob, would you like to respond? I would like to triple down on my take. Ned, this is business as usual, Justin.

It's like this is your first rodeo and you've never seen a guy negotiate through the media before. This is honestly, I'm embarrassed for you for taking this at face value when Zach Levine is saying, oh, keep my options open,

it's going to be an interesting summer. This is the way the stuff goes. That fifth year, Justin. Absolutely. Hmm. Can we hear that one more time? Absolutely not. Guys, this is not going to happen.

Let's just make it like a button. I love that. Yeah, no, I need like a button. We're going forward. We'll come up with whatever bet seems appropriate. That's Acklevene. I'll say he's going to be back. You say he's going to join the Detroit Pistons

and we'll see where we end up on all that. If he leaves the Bulls, I'm never letting this go. Everyone is aware. literally every pod I'm going to bring it up. I feel very good about it still. Okay. Okay. One more time, Isaiah?

Absolutely not. Guys, this is not going to happen. It sounds more authoritative every time I hear it. It's like it's getting stronger. All right, on that note, we'll be back next week to talk about Zach Levine's future and possibly some playoff basketball for all of us, including Isaiah Blakely on production. The magic of his production work this week. I appreciate it.

Ben Cruz also hanging around here. We'll see you next time.