The Ringer NBA Show - The Heat Go Up 3-0, Carmelo Anthony Retires, and Lakers on the Verge of Getting Swept | Real Ones

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

Logan and Raja are back to talk about the Celtics getting embarrassed by the Heat in a must-win Game 3 in Miami (02:00), before turning their praises to this improbable title-contending Miami Heat team (27:00). Then the guys talk Nuggets vs. Lakers and what the future could look like for the Lakers if they get swept (41:00). Later, the guys celebrate Carmelo Anthony after his retirement announcement (51:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You may find this hard to believe, but 60 songs that explain the 90s. America's favorite poorly named music podcast is back. With 30 more songs than 120 songs total. I'm your host, Rob Harvilla, here to bring you more shrewd musical analysis, poignant nostalgic reveries, crude personal anecdotes, and rad special guests, all with even less restraint than usual. Join us once more on 60 Saws That Explain the 90s every Wednesday on Spotify.

What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Rogerville there. Monday, real ones. Raja, last night, he'd take a 3-0 lead against the Celtics. And a word

from the Celtics point of view. Yuck! Raja. It wasn't, like, we're going to get to the heat in a second because they played their ass off.

It looks like they're going to the finals. They're up 3-0. It is what it is. Oh, going to the finals. They're going to the finals. Roger, this is one of those things where, like, I watch Game 2 of this. I watched the whole game 2 in Boston where Jimmy and Company just took their lunch down the stretch. And it was one of those things where the series is over after Game 2. So I'm like, do I really want to watch Game

3? Do I really want to put myself through this? I pulled to Rajapel. Okay, I was like, do I really, really, really want to do this? So I watched like the first quarter and a half. and it was one of those things where, you know what, I'm just going to watch this on the ESPN app. I'm just going to watch the rest of this. We're going to go do something else. And every time I got back to the ESPN app, Raja, the lead got bigger.

And then I go back and I watch the highlights on Inside the NBA. And my level of disgustedness, I don't even know this word and I really don't care, was matched by Charles and Shaq and Ernie. They just had nothing. Just like every one of my feelings were validated by them. Just how bad this game was. The Celtics just flat out quit.

Let me give you some stats before I go to Ra. Jalen Brown, 12 points, 6 rebounds, 35% shooting. In a game you had to have. Jason Tatum, 14 points on 33% shooting. He came out with his white suit and just laid a dud. Raja. What is your level of disappointment in the Celtics? And how much did they just disrespect the basketball gods in the game three of the Eastern Conference finals this year?

Let me give a shout out to the heat in a way that, I mean, I apologize before, for a team that represents so much of what I love about basketball and the way I feel it should be played and what the nuts and bolts of it are about. for a team that represents all of that, I should have given them more credit off the bat. Now, in fairness, I mean, they weren't great this regular season. They lost a play-in game. The offense wasn't looking like this. Like, I just didn't, I couldn't have foreseen it turning into this. And then you lose Tyler Hero.

I mean, I don't think it's crazy for me to say, I didn't know that it was going to be possible, but I missed because they represent everything that I hold near, near and dear to my heart. And as far as what that did to Boston, is it just, it completely took their heart. It ripped it, it ripped it out of Boston's chest. You asked me, or you said something, I don't know,

a couple pods ago about mind control. Does Miami have mind control? That's what it looked like. It looked like Boston had complete, had their mind controlled by Miami. There was nothing that Boston could do that was an answer for something that Miami had going on. They looked befuddled.

They were beaten up physically. Boston came out of the gates in game three, down 02, and started crying for fouls immediately. Oh my God, that is a terrible precedent to say. You're whining and crying to the officials off the rip. And Miami just systematically took their damn heart. Miami's pace offensively. Now, not always in transition, but when they get in that half court,

and they've got all of this ball movement and people movement, and you're putting defenders in these compromising, decision-making situations with great shooters coming off of screens, Boston guessed wrong every time on it. They just guessed wrong. Bamatabio was putting people in the hole just, oh my God, that was just flagrant. He was abusing people physically yesterday. And it was crazy because I watched Boston. I thought I saw it in game two where it looked like they were seeing ghost.

Who was the quarterback that said that a couple years ago and he got killed for it with the Jets? Was it the boy from USC maybe? Sanchez. Sam Darnold. Sam Darnel, excuse me. So it's all good. But he said something about seeing ghost, right? And it looked to me like Boston was seeing ghost a little bit, like thinking something was going to be there.

that wasn't there. There was a play in game two where Jason Tatum hadn't seen a lot of good shots. Miami had finally made a mistake. The ball got kicked out to Jason Tatum on the left wing late in the game. And instead of shooting the wide open jumper, he like, he raised up with the ball fake and took one dribble into a more contested jump shot. Like, you're not sharp there. You saw something that wasn't there. You're seeing a ghost. And so fast forward to last night,

I mean, Jalen Brown going to the rack on Jimmy Butler and trying to like big shoulder him with his right shoulder. And Jimmy Butler just kind of slides back. And this man looks like he had the chair and the rug pulled out from under him. You're seeing ghosts, bro. They got you doing shit that you look like you're playing in the third grade. So, so sorry, this is like a long, there was so much to get into here. Boston's lack of, of general offense plays right into the hands of what the heat

want to do defensively. Miami's, you know, ability to run a very good offense with pace and, and crispness has been kryptonite for Boston. Miami's been the more physical team. Miami's been the more committed team. Miami's been the better coach team. There's no, there's no, I should have given them more credit. I apologize again, damn it.

It's okay, Roger. We all fuck up. Vets fuck up too. The biggest thing that I've seen, just from the Celtics over the last, let's say, let's say year and a half, the last year and a half, I'll give them that. I have seen a team that on paper and on the court at times is the most talented team in the whole league,

has all the talent, and when they're on, I don't think anyone can beat them. But you've seen periodically throughout this last stretch of their, whatever you want to call it, right? their last run, their last, the last 18 months, where they have had instances where you see they're not mentally there. You know, they're not mentally together. They aren't.

You even saw that in, that's why M.A. Udoka for them in that January of 2022, when he called them out was such a big deal because it momentarily brought them together and showed you what they could be when they are all the way locked in. But since then, you talk about how. Miami had them on a string all series. It's kind of like how the Warriors were in the finals, right? Like, where they just, the Celtics were just a step ahead at all times. But then you just see just cracks, since that happened, just periodic cracks and their infrastructure.

You see it when, you know, they have to get a new coach, which is understandable, right? You see what happens. It's hard to adjust to a new coach. But you see that their mental toughness just isn't there. And that can help you in a series against Atlanta because Atlanta's not going anywhere. You know, like, you know that you're going to beat Atlanta because you're more talented. You've been through too many things. Atlanta's not going to beat you.

That can help against the Sixers who have a team where you know James Hardin isn't going to be there in those clutch moments, right? You know that eventually a team of James Hardin and Doc Rivers and, sorry to say, that's Joelle and Bede, have shown you that when it comes to crunch time, they aren't going to be there. But all of your flaws are going to come to a head when you play against a team like Miami, who is battle tested, who has a culture,

and they're always going to be together. And you're seeing that right now where this Celtics group just isn't aligned. They're not together. And they don't have each other's back because there's no way you go into a Miami environment. environment and give up in the way that they do, especially after you got embarrassed twice in Boston.

It's just, I don't even, what's next for this team, Raja? What do you see next for this team? What has to happen for this Celtics team to be able to get back to where they should go to and where their talents suggest they belong? Before I answer that, let me touch on a couple of things you just, you said, because I think you're absolutely right on a lot of them. Miami unlike a lot of teams in the NBA, when you talk about, you know,

then being able to get by Atlanta and being able to get by Philly, Miami doesn't beat themselves. You know, I kind of, the way I described it was they don't have the same amount of variance in their level of play as some of the other teams in the playoffs. And what that basically means is, you know, they're not going away. Even down, they're not going away.

Up. They're not taking their foot off the pedal. They just do what they do. They're well coached. They understand what it's about. And they got a bunch of dudes that, again, like I near and dear to my heart type of guys, people that feel like they've been undervalued and overlooked and not given a chance to be what they are currently being.

And for that reason, the chip is always there and they play like it. So you can't get away with the mistakes because Miami's not going to beat themselves. They're not going to hand you a game like Philly did. or like Atlanta might. They're not going to give it to you. You've got to take it from them. And you are absolutely right. Boston looked like a team last night that was not together.

It was just a failure on all fronts. They looked like they did not trust one another. They looked like they had no faith or trust in their game plan and what they were trying to accomplish. They looked like they had no faith or trust in their ability to get out of the situation that they had put themselves in. They looked like there was no belief at all. And all you heard Miami do at the press conference after game two and game three talk about belief and how powerful it was.

And Bam, Atabio echoed it again last night. And there was a severe lack of that from the Celtics. Now, that's an organizational thing. That's not just players. Like, I heard the argument this morning about, is it players or is it Joe Masula? That falls on everybody. Now, Joe Masula ain't out there shooting any shots. But he is culpable.

like he is part of their game planning and getting a team ready to play. Now, players have to go out there and execute. But that was a failure on all levels. And what they got to do going forward, I would keep those two together. I would keep Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum together. They're two all-MBA players.

I feel bad about saying this. I don't think Joe Masula is up to the task when you talk about taking on the better coaches in the NBA. Can he get to the, that point? Absolutely. Is he, you know, does he deserve a chance to be a head coach at some point in the league? The jury is still out to some degree. But right now, as he currently has shown me in these playoffs, he doesn't look like he's

able to kind of hold his weight when it comes to playing against the better coaches in the NBA. And even if he can, it doesn't look like that team really responds to what he is trying to sell. And that is equally as concerning. So they got to figure out what happens there. What are you going to do with your coach? I'm not calling for anything. I don't necessarily have the answer. Some of the pieces that are around Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown have not produced for you.

They've not produced the way they need to produce. Now, in fairness, those two didn't produce either. But we are going to have to tinker around the edges. I'm not calling for a mass exodus. I'm not calling for a complete overhaul. but we've got to find some other pieces. There's got to be some tinkering around the edges. So you ask me what you do.

I think the first thing you do is try to lock up Jalen Brown. Then we have to figure out what this coaching situation looks like. And then we need some upgrades and some positions on that roster. Can I say one more thing? Go ahead. Can I say one more thing? I was surprised last night that we didn't get a report from some sideline reporter coming out of the Boston locker room

that someone, anyone, a coach, a player, an assistant coach, a trainer, anyone had flipped their shit, turned a table over, MFed everybody in the building. But you don't hear that. You usually hear that when that happens. Right? Like that gets reported when it happens.

And the fact that no one in that locker room had, I mean, maybe they just keep it under wraps better than anyone else. But that spoke to me. Because I put myself on that team. Logan, I would have been breaking doors and shit. I honestly, and I want to get to all the other things that you said on that. But the first thing is, you could tell even to start the game or before the game that the Celtics were just here for a free week in Miami, bro.

Like Jason Tatum came in as the leader of your team coming with a white suit. he's vibing, he's chilling, he's like, hey guys, what's going? And then you lay an egg like that. And then to your point, you're not mad at all. I think Jalen might have been the only person that's, Jalen and Joe Mazzulus were like the only ones that at least seemed like they were upset about this. And that was sulky.

That wasn't even angry. That shit looked like they were sulking. Right, right. But so some emotion that is, that is appropriate for what just happened to your team, right? But to get to what you were saying in terms of like, what needs to be changed and stuff. First of all, they do got to get rid of Joe Bazula. It's not his fault necessarily.

I think he's going to be a really, really good coach in this league one day. I really do. But he was in a situation that was unprecedented, right? You're this 34-year-old assistant, and you're like, no, you're this wonder kid. Go out there and be a head coach of the Boston Celtics championship contending team. It was tough from him from the get-go. A little unfair. Little unfair.

You could tell, though, that there was a bit of an, even mid-season, and we talked about this in the prepot, there was a little erosion of, not necessarily trust, but there were a lot of guys that were just like, dog, can we get M.A. back? Can we, can we get this? Can we get a coach that we know is going to hold us to that standard? And someone that we missed, right?

You could tell that there were whispers that they weren't all in with Joe Missoula, even mid-season, right? And then you see it in the press conference after game three where it just seemed like Missoula had no answers. Friend of the show, Gary Waspern was asking him questions just like, did you lose the team? And he goes, it's on me to get them better, get them to play harder. We got to figure out how I can get them back, right? It's not when you, right? When you, first of all, we could already see that he lost the team.

on paper and on on the on the on the on the floor right when we watch some play we could tell that they're just not a cohesively coached group at this point but because of that he needs they they need to find someone that can be a real voice in that locker room because let's face it man there are a lot of hard body hard personalities in that locker room and you need a guy that has the respect of that locker room in a way that i don't think missoula has at this point right now. So since he's lost a team, he's never going to get it back. And you know this, Roger. We've talked about this in other pods where once the coach loses a team, he's never, especially a championship continuing team, he's never, it's never going to come back. So they need a new

coach. I think, and I don't have reporting on necessarily, I just have a hunch. I just think that Jaylon's going to, I think Jalen's going to sign that deal. And I think, because I mean, that extension is a massive. I mean, because he's not getting it anywhere, bro, because he's going to, because Because you put that much money in front of a person they're going to sign it, bro. We'll figure it out later, right? So by all the sense, I think he's going to be back next year. I think the core of him and Jalen can win titles, but they need someone that is going to keep them locked in for a season long stretch, right?

And here's another thing that I have a problem with, Rob, and I promise we're going to get to the heat. But when you have a guy like Al Orford in the beginning of a game, a beginning of a series, hit a three, and do that timeout show. shit and forcing to Miami. There was this forcing to Miami Heat and antagonizing and doing like the timeout sign

in a game that you lost, bro. That's not a good example for the rest of your team, right? And Al Horford, you too old for that, Al. One, you two old for that shit and two, the rest of the young and see that shit and that's when you see

Grant Williams start to be emboldened to talk shit to Jimmy Butler, right? And then you see other people of the team starting to stick their chest out while they're losing. And I just don't have just, a bad example, bro. I didn't think that was just a good look in general. You saw a lot of immaturity from this Celtics team who has been there before. Now was disappointing more than

anything. That's fair. Shit talking is unscripted. It pops up just at a thin air. Something happens and your mouth starts running. Sometimes you don't control that. In and of itself, I don't have a huge problem with that. But if you are going to be opening your mouth, you better be able to back it up. And, I mean, on all fronts, the Celtics just weren't about that. So if you're not living like that, don't be selling out like that. No, I, you know, it's hard for me. I'm conflicted because I hear a lot of people, especially down here in the Miami market,

about Grant Williams talking to Jimmy Butler. And I mean, fuck Jimmy Butler. Like affectionately, who the fuck is Jimmy Butler? I talk to Jimmy Butler if I want to. too. Like, do you know what I mean? I don't subscribe to just because he's a better player. You shouldn't talk to him. But if you talk to him, then you better be standing in the paint time after time after time and understand the ramifications. So, you know, I'm kind of conflicted because I'm sitting here telling you they weren't living those raps. But at face value,

I certainly don't subscribe to, hey, that guy's better than you as a basketball player. You can't talk to him. Fuck that. that wasn't but here's the thing this is this was my thing on it it was very isolated shit talk right it was the fucking weak ass timeout pose from from out horford right that was terrible it was terrible dude and then the the grant williams thing i didn't have any problem with grant williams going toe to toe with jimmy especially like his game he was backing up he was hitting shots right yeah my problem was he wasn't backed up by the rest of his teammates when that happened right because they asked jaylon brown about that jaylon brown could have been like you

yeah, we riding with Grant, fuck it, yeah. We did it and we got his back. Did he do that? No, he said, next question. He didn't have, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he, Grant Williams did not have his back in the shit talking, in the way that when you shit talked Kobe and also tried to take his head off, your teammates had your back. Did they not?

Your superstar teammates had your back. Tim Thomas had your back. Steve Nash had your back. They didn't have his back. his back. They just let him talk shit. It better be a storyline. And then in the next game, just laid an egg. That just shows that they were just

this team was fractured and they weren't together is the biggest point. Those, the shit talking told a bigger story of how this team was is that it was isolated shit talk and they did not live their wraps and on top of not living their wraps the teammates did not have each other's

back throughout this entire series. I think maybe, maybe it's a lot to digest here and there's a lot to talk about. And I'm trying to figure out where my disappointment lies the most. And it's probably unfair to Marcus Smart because, I mean, he's not the breadwinner necessarily there. Stars, we talk about this all the time. Stars have to be stars and their two stars just were not.

But when you talked about my situation, you know, it kind of made me think about a team. the team I was on didn't have a lot of outwardly aggressive personalities. I was that guy. And we were getting bullied. The Lakers were bullying us. And that became my job in more than one instance, but certainly in that one, to bow up and say, man, fuck that. This isn't happening.

We're not going out like that. Now, I couldn't predict how that would turn out. but my team needed that at that point. I felt right or wrong. That's the way I felt. And I didn't see anyone on a Celtics team short, short of kind of the Grant Williams a little few minutes, especially in game three, say, no, we're not with that shit. And I would expect that.

Like Marcus Smart seems like the dude that, for better or for worse, in that moment, would stand up and say the Celtics, we're not going out like that. And I didn't see anyone do it last night. I didn't see anyone doing it last night. And I'll tell you what's a big concern for me with the Celtics moving forward. Is that both of those all-MBA team players that I talked about? It's okay that one of them's not like that. But if neither one of them is really built like that,

and I'm not saying definitively that they're not. But damn, Logan, you'd have to go back. Someone would have to tweet me the last time to first and second team, all NBA players in a citizen. situation like last night shit the bed like they did and just rolled over. I don't remember it. Well, it's funny because we got, this is game three. They shit the bed. Like, it's a little too late after you go down 02 and going to the, on the road, right? This should have been happening. We're talking about game three. But honestly, this is the proxy the last two games because we

didn't get to talk about it. This is, it's a systematic thing, right? Yeah, but it was, it's different though. They were, they fought. They just got beat in game two. they got beat. That was like Joe Masula and that inability to figure out how to get Jason Tatum somewhere somewhere in the heart of the zone or behind the zone or in gaps where he could make plays and just using him as the primary ball handler to initiate offense and just go high pick and roll for an entire quarter. Yeah, you got a couple buckets at the rim in game two and a couple sprayouts for threes.

But that's playing right into the Miami Heat's hands. Guess who they would rather shoot the ball. they would rather have Rob Williams at the rim or him spraying it out to Grant Williams or a random shot from Malcolm Bridges than Jason Tatum shooting nine times. So if you're just going to leave him at the top of the key, so anyway, the point being, I digress.

The point was... Malcolm Brogden. Malcolm Brogden. I'm sorry. What I call him? Malcolm Bridges. Keep that shit in. Shit, my bad. Malcolm Brognant. But the point is, Joe Masula,

I thought, struggled in game two in a way. that cost his team the game. The players were there to play. Now, they got ran down, but that's different than what happened last night. Last night, they quit. Last night, they looked like they wanted no action. Last night, they folded the tent.

And all, I mean, real, this is funny, but honestly, if I was somewhere, and you can't do this to grown-ass men, but I'd pull to old school college, if I see any of y'all walking on brickle, If I see any of y'all outside this hotel after 8 p.m., but I'm kicking asses. You motherfuckers will not play in game four.

I'm sitting you. Some old school threatening shit. Don't let me catch you out in the streets of Miami. There's such a perfect AAU coach, bro. You're the perfect one. I'm sending my kids to you. I'm sending them to you. No, but you don't deserve it.

You don't deserve it. As a matter of fact, everybody gets your shit. We're going back to Boston. We're going back to Boston. Get your shit. We'll come back. We'll come back. No, hey, we're going to, no, fuck that.

We're flying up to Orlando, okay? We're going up to Orlando and we're not, you're not doing shit. All right, man, fuck talk about the Celtics. Let's talk about the heat, man. Real ones of the century. All right, I'm going to give you some names, Roger. Caleb Martin, 18 points off the bench. Gabe Vincent, undrafted.

29 points, 6-3s, 11 of 14, got an inside the NBA look afterwards. That's a big deal. Shout up to him. Ducking Robinson 22 off the bench. Seven of 11 shooting five threes. Roger, these are not, these are not top five picks. Careful with your words. No, no, no, no, no.

I'm giving them problems. These are not top five picks. These aren't people that, let me not disrespect them because I don't, I'm not even trying to disrespect them. But these are not people that these are not players. that people were awake on. They didn't have their third eye on when they were looking at them.

They didn't see them. They were in the Rajabelle Hall of Fame. And Dave's fucking showed up. You know what's hard to scout? You know, it's hard to quantify. You know what's hard to like, tangibly put a number of us. This right here.

That's right here. That's right here. It's right here. It gets missed on people all the time in a lot of sports in life in general. It's hard because we get blinded by like size, speed,

athleticism, talent. Big schools. Yeah, some of them, I mean, you know, Caleb went to a decent-sized school. Duncan was in Michigan. But the point is, the heat do a better job than anyone in the NBA of finding players like that, that fit their mold, that display personality and playing characteristics that they put stock in and think will help a team win that can fit into their culture.

And then once they get them, continuing to help them develop, continuing to help them develop their games and empowering them once they get their opportunity to go out there and be successful. And it is really, really cool to watch. And like I said, at the start of the segment, I should have been more of a fan,

if that makes sense, because they have so many guys that represent everything that I think all of those names are representative of of me to some degree. Do you know, like that they got it out of the mud, Logan, no one gave you shit. No one invited you to a workout. Nobody drafted you. That's 30-some teams telling you multiple times, now we're good. By the definition of the draft, that's 30-some teams that looked at you and was like,

no, we're good, at least two times. Shit, even the heat overlooked Gabe Vincent. Even the heat overlooked him. So, so, so, I mean, I just think it's super dope. It's a super cool story. And I really have respect for those dudes. And not only, you know, not only the coming out and being overlooked like that, but like, let's use Duncan Robinson, for example.

Like, I drive around this market all day long, and I got on Sports Talk radio. and he was getting eviscerated all season, like was not the player that they paid him, they gave him a full bag, and he wasn't producing for one reason or another, was buried on the bench. And, you know, that is a high-level professional to sit over there, stay confident, stay sharp,

and when the opportunity presents itself to hop back out there and just be ready to go and seize that opportunity. Like there's a lot of really good stuff going on with the heat. and it is a shame that the whole first part of the segment was Boston because the reality is Miami, you know, it is the story. Miami is, it's for real. It is, it is, it's for real. When I, when I think about Miami and what they have accomplished,

it's pretty fucking incredible, man. You know, to be an eighth seed to damn their playing game. They lost the playing game. and could have lost the second playing game against the Chicago, right? Like, every time you've seen them play, right? Like, you know, oh, shit, they beat Milwaukee.

Oh, all right, well, okay, all right. We'll see what happened. And then they continue to win. I ask you this, Roger, are they legitimately going to win the title this year, bro? Like, are we here? Can we say it? Can we do it?

I will not make my mouth up again on this podcast to say that the heat cannot do something. I will not. I refuse to do it. So if you're asking me, I will not do it. Yes, the heat can absolutely win a championship. There's no question. There's no question.

What they do offensively at times, Boston is so stagnant offensively. Yeah, they have two brilliant one-on-one players. I try to tell my, this is crazy. I was in a fifth grade gym yesterday. Here I go. I was in a fifth grade gym. And my little son, Zen plays on a fifth grade team.

Now, Zen has watched his older brothers play. So Zen handles the point. and Zen is the type of kid that will get it off of an outlet and see a kid at half court and just go ahead and kick it up because that's the right thing to do. Just kick it up. Just get off of it. I might not make the play, but I'm going to get it to someone who can make the play, right?

And he makes a lot of little plays like that. And so I had an argument, you know, after the game because one of his coaches said something to me. And I said, well, you know, if you had more kids that were willing to do that, you'd be able to beat this next team. But you've got a bunch of guys that all want to just go one-on-one. and while that's cool and they may have some success against a certain level of team, once you get to that next level of team, they're not going to let that beat them. So you've got to have more kids that will get off of it, you know,

and you've got to run more stuff that gets people moving in a way that they can get buckets. And so it was crazy because I had that conversation. Then they went out in the finals, tried to do what they do, got beat by 35. And then I come home and watch Boston employ the same fucking strategy. Hey, we're just standing around and watch you two go to work. You all got it. It's a really good defensive team. Yeah, go ahead.

Yeah. And then Miami is just the antithesis of that. Hey, bro, we're going to be flying around this court. We're going to keep putting you in positions to have to make the right call defensively. And we're betting that eventually, because of our shooting prowess and what you're worried about, you're going to make a mistake. We're either going to get this jumper or we're going to slip and get back to her. And they just did it over and over and over again. And so that's the style of play that I like to watch.

Denver can be like that when they want to be, too. Like just moving. Like the Lakers in Boston play real similar with that. Like they're just going to let Anthony Davis, LeBron, and the two, and Jalen and Jason beat you. Roger, I got a quick question for you before we end this segment.

Are you ready to tell the real reason why you be hanging on the Miami Heat and why you don't ever want to give them their flowers? Or should we just wait for another episode? No, it's not even like that. I'll tell the story. I mean, I tell the fucking story. Sell the fucking story. I mean, the heat didn't give me a workout coming out of FIU.

Right. Like that hurt. I mean, they were my in-market team. You just, you just throw a random workout to the kid that's across the street. Like, I thought they didn't. It's okay. And then, you know, I really thought I was going to come home and play with the heat when they brought LeBron and them back because, you know, they had kind of told my agent that they were going to be really interested. And they were. They called me. Spoh called me after, you know, LeBron and all those guys signed the next day. And he was like, hey, it's finally time for you to come home. And I was like, bet. I was like, but Spoh, you guys don't have any money left.

You're talking about the minimum, right? And he was like, yeah, the minimum. And for whatever it's worth, I mean, I was just worth slightly more than the minimum at that point. You know, so I hadn't made a whole lot of bread in the NBA. So I had to go. So, yeah, I would have always liked to have played for the heat. I never got a chance to play for them. Like, they didn't see me like that.

And that's okay. I could still appreciate, I think I would have been a good fit in the heat. Great fit, Raja. You would have been right at heat culture. You are heat culture. You believe that shit. Eudanus was one of my young fellas, man. Eudanis and those boys were young whippersnappers in the gym.

We were the older generation. I was a generation right before UD. Like we came up in similar gyms and putting stock in similar styles of play down here in Miami. Like we, you know, and so it's been really cool for me to watch UD be a heat lifer. Talk about UD real quick, man, because Stan Van Gundy was talking about him on the broadcast and just talking about just Miami Senior High School, right? So he went to, the only time he left is when he went to the University of Florida, right? But he was still a Florida boy.

What is, is Eudonis' impact on the heat and by extension, Miami? Man, that's a very big question. Eudonis' impact on the heat, I believe to be. as important extracting what's going on out there on the court from the equation as Jimmy Butler's. What he stands for,

the type of professional he is, the perspective he has for the career that he's earned, having come from where he came from, is really, really important and valuable. He got it out the mud too. You know, had to go overseas, was overweight, had to work his way into shape.

And even then, probably wasn't expected to do some of the stuff that he did, you know, in terms of a career. And so I think that experience, that messaging, that level of preparation, that understanding of what it takes to overachieve is as important to what they do on a day-to-day basis as anyone in that organization. And as far as Miami, again, Miami Senior High is the gym that we as a young, player in the 90s in Miami. That was the gym that everyone went to to get it in. U.D., Steve Blake, Brent Wright, Silburn Robinson, all of these cats were seniors, you know, at Miami High, but we were all the cats that were in college or just were just pros.

So those kids were playing games with us or, you know, would be in gyms with us. And so that was the gym that, that prop the Miami culture in basketball. So he represents the way we all learned. how to play. You know, we don't, we're not a like dribble-tastic city like, you know, New York with slick guards and, you know, we don't have a necessary, a necessary, like brand of ball. You know, like my son, Ty, for instance, I'm sorry, I do this is all I do because I, like, we hear my kids. My son, Ty, I've raised him to try to play like that. So they asked him to come out, you know, he's a seventh grader, but he only plays eighth and ninth grade here at the crib, and he,

he's really physical and plays hard and represents what, like you D, and we won't take no shit, bro, we run up in your chest. Like, we ain't with none of that.

Like, you know what I mean? Like, you got to get it from me. I'm not giving you shit. So I sent him out to L.A. because they asked him to come play in Cali. And he went out to Cali

and rocked out in a tournament, you know, this weekend and was giving out work, but finding himself in foul trouble at times because they just don't play like that out there. And I told him, he called me and be like that. Is this an offensive foul?

I'm like, well, not here. but there it is, because they don't play like that. You call it soft, right? You call it. No, I'm not calling it soft. I'm calling it different. They put stock in different things.

And so as that relates to UD, UD represents what we all represent out here as a basketball culture. Tough, physical, grimy. Don't give a shit how it looks. Just give a fuck about what it produces. Out the mud. Straight up. And so when you ask me, that's UD.

and I mean, he is a rock star in terms of Miami basketball. And it's pretty cool to see him still out there, you know, contributing. Even though you might not see it on the court every night, it is invaluable to what they have going on in this run that they're on right now. Let's say a quick break. We're going to take it to the Western Conference. And we are back. Let's take it to the Western Conference where we have yet another 3-0 lead in the series.

It's been quite the barn burner. Rasha. Nuggets are up 3-0 in Los Angeles. It gets the Lakers. It's looking really ugly right now, man. We had a, in game three, which the Nuggets took, 1-19, 111, Jamal Murray had 37, 30 in the first half, Yolkich 24, 6, and 8. Bruce Brown, 15, 5, and 5 off the bench. Bruce Brown has been, he's been that dude. We talked about Malcolm Brogden not showing up,

and with Boston and a contending team, Bruce Brown has been everything that the Celtics thought that Malcolm Brogden was going to be. And over there talking shit to fill handy. Over there talking shit to the bench. Also, here's another thing. You believe everything Bruce Brown says. You believe all that shit because he's not stopping.

He's what I those do. He's the most annoying shit talker. And I say this with all love and respect. He's the most annoying one because you're never going to get him to shut the fuck up. Even if they lose, he's going to. keep talking. It's not, it's not, that's in him. He's one of those dudes that, like, I could never

be this and I wish I was. You know the guys that it revs them up when they talk shit? When I talk shit, it actually fucks my game up because I'm thinking more about talking shit than the actual game. I'm not good at it. Bruce Brown, I envy him because he is a guy that can talk shit and back it up and he's going to continue to keep on doing it. He's going to continue. He's going to say it to anyone. Anyone's getting this smoke. So appreciate Bruce Brown. But anyway, Nuggets are in prime position to go to the NBA finals. What have you seen from the Nuggets here? It's basically what we've seen all season from the Nuggets and stretches, right?

And now they're finally on a national stage. Is it on us that we just didn't watch enough Nuggets basketball to just like just anoint them earlier, Raja? Is this where we're at right now? We should have just been seeing this. Maybe. But I do think, you know, you got to prove that. regular season

was a pretty healthy body of work but I think it was prudent to have a reservation or two until you saw it but the reality is they're just a better team than the Lakers

I mean they that bore itself out over the course of the season it's playing itself out now you know Yokic and AD I mean let's see let's say you know

in terms of in terms of bucket getting they cancel each other out, let's say. Yeah. But Jamal Murray has been the better bucket getter between him and LeBron. And we talked about coming in, like the Lakers had the advantage in terms of the two-headed monster.

Well, so far through three games, Denver has. Yeah. And so, you know, this isn't taking anything away from LeBron's brilliance, but at this point in his career and what the Lakers are doing, it's the better bucket has been, has been Jamal. And when you throw into the mix that, you know, the others from Denver have been showing up consistently. I'm not taking anything away from, what's the name, Austin? Austin Reeves.

Yeah, Austin Reeves. Sorry, forgive me, Austin Reeves. Or Rio Hachamora or Dennis Schroeder or anybody. But like Denver's been there. Their bench has been there. They've been consistent. They've been getting production. And, you know, when you put all of those things together,

Denver's a better team. And you can tell, every possession you can tell, it's really just the Lakers treading water at points of the game, right? Like, we asked this question earlier in the postseason, like, can LeBron sustain this, right? And the answer has been no, man. Like, the stats bear themselves out. He got this in game three, 23.12 assists, seven rebounds.

Great by anybody else, right? But he doesn't have that extra gear. And I said, and I picked the Lakers to win this series, because what I said was the Lakers have the two best players in the series. I was categorically wrong, right? Just on every point. Jamal Murray and Yolkich and the Joker are the two best players, probably arguably that we have left in this postseason.

It just is what it is, right? whenever you see I'm not taking anything away from Jimmy Butler at all I know you give me that look right now I'm not taking anything away from Jimmy Butler but I do think as a one two punch those guys have been it

Jamal and I hit you you didn't text me back because you were probably on the gridiron somewhere but I asked you and was like is Jamal Murray tier one right now because he's playing like it Roger he's fucking playing like it yeah he's I mean if you remember him in the bubble

we were having these conversations that bubble year when he was just going bananas and then I mean he got injured so you know that mental that meant that next mental step would be would have been telling had he not gotten injured could he step into that realm you know consistently and then he got injured and so now he's you know he's worked his way back and and as of right now the way he's playing in these playoffs the answer is yes but to be a to be a tier one Logan you and I both both know, that's got to be consistent. That's got to play itself out over seasons. And so we'll find out. But he is as talented a shot maker and playmaker with the ball as there is,

man, he's a bucket and he can get really, really hot. But the separator is the consistency and the ability to do that over the course or the course and stretch of a season. But as a duo, I think you're right. I didn't mean to make a face. I was drinking my coffee. Like, yeah, as a duo, there's nothing touching them in the NBA right now. And LeBron, LeBron is

just not 29 years old anymore. I mean, it's just not. I mean, it is what it is. He can still be dope and really good and better than 99% of the player, but he ain't 27, 28. And so, he's not even 34

anymore, which is like, which was amazing. Right. That's probably even better, right. But you know what I'm saying? And so, you know, they played a lot of ball, too. And we talked about that, you know, we talked about the Lakers and some of those series needing to get wins and get off those feet and get that rest.

Because as these games start coming every other night, that is not helpful to an aging player at all. That is to either AD or LeBron. And so, yeah, the nuggets have been the better duo. and the better bench. And so, Logan, I would then ask you, like, what do you expect? If the Nuggets are going to be the better duo and the better bench, what do you expect to happen? I expect a clean sweep on game four, bro.

Like, it was, and me and Kerm talked about this in the pre-pod. The difference between these two series, the Western Conference and the Eastern Conference finals, like the Lakers weren't laying down in game three. No. They just weren't as good as the nuggets. The nuggets were just a better team all the way around. The Lakers were trying. The Lakers were putting up runs.

They were giving a fuck. They just couldn't. They just didn't have that gear, man. Like, they just don't. And a lot of it has to do with, man, it's tough seeing LeBron play in that way that he did, right? Like, LeBron has not had the legs in this series. And no matter what, he is the leader. And even with AD getting 40 and 10,

it just hasn't mattered, man, right? Like, Rui's been playing really well. Reeves has gotten buckets, but, like, when your stars can't be the best in the series, it's really tough. Ross, you talk about this all the time when you talk about role players, like Austin Reeves getting 23, 7, and 5,

that's great, but, like, you don't want that, you don't need, not that you don't need that from every day, you can't expect that every game from somebody like that, right? And that's not winning you games. Exactly. Exactly. And so the Lakers are at this point where they're just, they're not the, they're not the better team.

It is what it is. I don't know necessarily what's next over the summer that can necessarily change that, right? Because LeBron's only getting older, right? AD, for as great as he's been, he's never going to be that number one guy. So I just don't know what, I don't know what the Lakers are going to do. Like, I don't know what changes next season and beyond other than the team gets older, Ra. Yeah, the Lakers better find an infusion. of scoring, relatively youthful scoring and primary playmaking.

Yeah. Because if they're going to be insistent on running very little offense, again, Denver runs. Denver runs stuff. Now, Jamal can go get you a bucket. The Joker, the Joker, you can give him the ball and he can go get you a bucket with the best in the league. But you saw it down the stretch because you were right, the Lakers were standing in a paint, swinging, fighting,

like champions should. Nuggets just outplayed him, especially down the stretch. The Lakers kind of fell apart. And down the stretch, the Nuggets kind of went to that 5-1 pick and roll, which is very, very cool to see Joker handling it. Also so rare. You don't see that shit, bro.

It's so cool. But before that, they're running offense. They're running things that are springing people for open shots. Even if it's that little, you know, horn set across the top, you know, with a backpick from Jamal Murray and then, you know, a DHO from the Joker to Jamal that's been given the Lakers fits. Like even in that space, they're running something to spring Jamal for a shot. You don't see the Lakers running stuff that springing people open, the heat run stuff that

springs people open. And so if you're going to play that style of ball because you have LeBron and AD, and LeBron's going to continue to get older, and AD is probably going to continue to be, you know, at least relatively inconsistent at times. You got to have someone else in there that can go get it like that. And Austin Reeves is a great story. He's a great story.

And he's going to secure the bag. And I'm supporting that. But I don't think he is the one that I'm talking about. He's not at the level of the type of player doing that I'm talking about. He's a nice piece. But you need a bona fide dude that can go out and get buckets. There ain't too many of them out there. Yeah. It's, it's, it's going to be interesting what they do. I just don't know what else they do. I don't know what else they can get for this and improve their roster because they did a great job. Like, they did a great job midseason. I'm curious to see how they will be with a full season with those. What we're going to say?

Can they fit Kyrie in? What do they have to do to fit Kyrie? Forgive me, this is off the top. I ain't, I've done no research. I don't. I don't know. Me and Kerm, we're just talking about this, man, short of him trying to get like the vet minimum, which is, something that clearly is not going to happen. They would have to do a sign and trade and a lot. And I don't know if I don't think Dallas is going to necessarily agree to that at this point. He's going to get paid by Dallas at this point for everything that I've seen. Dallas is going to pay. No, I got, I mean, that's, yeah.

But a player. They need a dude like that. They need a piece. They need something like that where, where LeBron is still going to be good for 20-some and whatever. And AD is going to do what AD does. But on any given night, this, this. is the guy who is going to make it go. Yeah.

We'll see what happens, man. One of the things before we get out of here, big news in the NBA world this morning, Carmelo Anthony has announced his retirement after 19 seasons, 10 All-Stars, Hall of Fame career. What was your biggest, what's your best memory regarding Carmelo Anthony? What was it like to play against him? I played against Mello for the first time. he was a high school select group.

It was him, Andre Iigodala, and a bunch of other cats. I was one year into the league. Carmelo and Andre I Godala, you had to be in the select. And a bunch of other cats that I don't remember. I'm sure there were some other stars in there, but we played him in the Miami Heat practice gym. I was one of a few guys that college players are first year pros that played them. And I remember gardening them being like, damn, he's tough.

He's tough. And then I caught him in the league. Obviously, he was. was a three and I was more of a two. He was bigger body, but I would have to play him sometimes. And what I really remember about Mello, amongst a lot of other great things about him, but how physically demanding it was to try to play against him. Because he never let you off the hook with the physicality. Once he realized where his advantage was, he just kept pressing that advantage. And so on me, it wasn't necessarily taking me out on the floor and trying to make me dance.

he had height and weight. And so he just would punish me. And even when I do a good job of defending, he would make me pay by using that shoulder and just trying to go through my chin on his way up to the room. I took a lot of offensive fouls on him. But the cumulative effect of that

it's pretty taxing and make you think twice about doing it next time. And he just beat you up. And he was heavy. What was the next day like after you guarded Carmelo, bro? I mean, that was a lot of ice that night and a lot of, a lot of Advil or what have you the next day because you'd be banged up. I have multiple teammates.

I have multiple teammates that played the three that would look over to me in the middle of a game against Carmelo and be like, hey, you take him for a little bit. Hey, you do that. I'd be like, damn it. Man, I don't have to go over there because, you know, in a lot of cases, they had more responsibility offensively, and playing him was taking a lot out of you.

So, you know, I had to take my ass over there and get beat up for a little while. Man, one of one, man. I just, I always, like, it was just interesting because every time I heard, like, you asked a question during the time, at Melo's peak, you ask,

who's the toughest guy to guard in the league? It would always be Mello. Like, it wouldn't be Katie. It wouldn't be LeBron. wouldn't even be Kobe. It would be, nah, Carmelo was the hardest person to guard in basketball

because of what you just said because you're going to have to fucking bring your lunch pail and you're going to have to fucking, I couldn't imagine playing a series against him because your body's going to be fucking shot after that. I couldn't imagine. He seems like just he's going to be in the post.

You're going to go with him and you're going to take a lot of punishment on your body, bro. I could not imagine trying to play basketball against Carmelo and Anthony in his prime. Yeah, he was punishment. But, I mean, you know, he'd take you out on that dance floor and make you move, too. But he was just well-rounded, but he understood, and this is going to sound crazy.

But when Braun came in, he didn't really understand it like that yet. That's why Carmelo was better first. Like, people, I think people don't realize, like, the first year, there was a legitimate argument. Like, no, Melo's better than LeBron James. Well, he was probably a better score first because he understood what he would, he understood, Hey man, now you're too small. I'm just going to, you know, it took LeBron a minute to get there. I remember LeBron didn't post me up probably for the first few years.

But Mello just had a very good feel for that, even as a young buck. Like, he knew how to score. And where his bread was buttered, depending on what you represented defensively, and he would just go to work. What was the time where you took a charge from Mello and you were like, fuck? I mean, I don't remember clearly, but I remember multiple times. defending him in Denver and having him work me kind of from the midpost down to around the block and then giving me some sort of, you know, he had this weird way of jumping through you to the

goal even out of like a, he wasn't all the way faced up. Like he'd have you on his shoulder, but when he would go up to the goal with a jump hook or some sort of power move, he was coming like at a 45 degree angle towards the rim. It wasn't like he was going straight up. and he certainly wasn't fading. So naturally, that's where my face is. So, you know, there's an elbow that's like, you know, my teeth are getting chattered. Like I got, I feel like my jaw got, you know,

I got punched in the jaw from the offensive foul I took. But there were multiple, multiples of those. And there were times where I'd have to go over to like, whoever my three was and be like, hey, man, I can't, like, you got to take his ass back. I can't, I'm good. You got to play. Yeah, I just picked up three fouls in three minutes.

I'm straight, man. You got to take his ass back. All right, man. A luscious career dog. Multiple gold medals. Ten time All-Star. 19-year career, man. Carmelo, man.

One of the best to ever do it. And that has been our Monday edition of Real Ones. We're getting down the stretch, baby. We'll talk to you guys very soon. Catch us Mondays and Thursdays. We'll see you guys on Thursdays, man. Talk soon. Ah, all the shits.

Bye.